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GateWorld
April 18th, 2011, 07:32 AM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s6/the-wedding-of-river-song/" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/theweddingofriversong-160x120.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">DOCTOR WHO - SERIES 32</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s6/the-wedding-of-river-song/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">THE WEDDING OF RIVER SONG</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 3213 (613)</FONT>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0;">With time fractured and at a stand-still, the Doctor recounts his journey to Lake Silencio and his inevitable death on the order of the Silence. Meanwhile, his friends continue to search for a way to save his life.</DIV>
<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s6/the-wedding-of-river-song/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Teddybrown
October 1st, 2011, 11:50 AM
OMFG That was friggin awesome!!!!
I honestly thought it was him all along!!
Did not see the Tesslecter coming!
Madam Kovarian finally got what was coming to her!!!
Thought the question would be Doctor Who?
So, the Silence are still out there... thats what wasnt answered, and also the question.
So many good lines in this too, but now we have to wait till Christmas and 2012 for answers =(

So, so sum up from previous episodes, the Silence blew up the Tardis so the question couldnt be answered, but that failed so they turned to another plan. Now everyone thinks the Doctors dead, when hes not, so he now isnt that big hero that everyone sees...

Amy and Rory wont be companions now, but they will definately be returning...
Hope to see more of River!

This series has got a massive 10/10 from me!
Great story arc and grate conclusion to a brilliant series!
I dont have to admit now that River killed the Doctor!
I knew she didnt kill him! Can i have some apologies please? =P

Sealurk
October 1st, 2011, 11:50 AM
Awesome!

Vyse
October 1st, 2011, 11:52 AM
Awesome, so much for the people thinking a ganger would be the one to die.

Blencathra
October 1st, 2011, 11:53 AM
Omg!!!!

P-90_177
October 1st, 2011, 11:53 AM
So the 11th Doctors end has been fortold.........

Vyse
October 1st, 2011, 11:53 AM
Moffatt, you are a genius.

Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble
October 1st, 2011, 11:54 AM
Loved that ep but was the actual question 'doctor who?' or is it something else?

dosed150
October 1st, 2011, 11:56 AM
shouldnt the question have been doctor whom, what would jack think :jack:

Alan
October 1st, 2011, 11:57 AM
Excellent, excellent, excellent!!!! Clever, clever, clever!!!!

Loved it!!!! Will say more precise things later!!!! :D

:cool:

Flyboy
October 1st, 2011, 12:02 PM
Ok, proper comment coming later ( I have Merlin to watch...), but...

For me, the greatest, most touching, most terrible, and most wonderful moment of this episode was the Doctor's attempted phone call to Brigadier Sir Alastair Gordon Lethbridge-Stewart. I will freely admit, tears streamed down my cheeks at this moment. The Doctor is about to die, so he calls his oldest and longest friend... only he was too late. There has been, imo, no more terrible moment in the whole of Doctor Who, and I wept.

From an out of Whoniverse PoV - it was such a wonderful scene to have included in tribute to a great actor, and the greatest character that Doctor Who has ever known. Moffat, my respect and admiration for drawing the Brigadier's story to a close in such a beautiful way given the time constraints.

To Nicholas Courtey, aka The Brigadier. *salutes*


32157



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arUeqQ5LsZw

Lahela
October 1st, 2011, 12:03 PM
OMFG... I cried, I laughed, I squeed, I gasped, I screamed...

The Brigadier... OMG, I had tears streaming down my face.

There are no words for how much this episode rocked. My world is shaken beyong belief and I have never been happier. :D

Father, I think mother needs another drink.

River, I love you so very, very much.

Amy... Ma'am...

Rory... Captain Williams...

He's not here.
Goodbye Kavorian!

My head's spinning! LOL!

Sealurk
October 1st, 2011, 12:03 PM
My brain is currently overloaded. I'll have to watch it at least twice more to get things straight and start finding flaws, but right now...loved it. Brilliant, and boy has that set up some incredible future stuff.

So the Doctor is always one step ahead of everybody, always has an answer, a solution, a way out and a trick up his sleeve...kind of like Moffat really. I mean, c'mon, who else now thinks he's had the Eleventh Doctor's demise figured out since before The Eleventh Hour?!

Rule #1: Like the Doctor, the Moff lies.

SaberBlade
October 1st, 2011, 12:11 PM
Loved that ep but was the actual question 'doctor who?' or is it something else?

I wouldn't be surprised if it was the question, perhaps involving what his real name is, but it would be completely stupid because I would have expected others on his own planet to know it even if they call him by title.

==

I loved the look on Amy's face when she realised that she's The Doctor's mother in law, absolutely priceless. Was great to see that Amy got revenge on baby Melody being taken by Kovarian. Also liked the line about Rose and Jack (especially Jack, so perhaps we could see a wedding at some point) and it was great to see The Doctor and River mirror each others lines from the Library and I did enjoy what seemed to be season 4 music from that episode being reused.

I still have issues with it. Was predictable it wouldn't be him on the beach when the Teselecta made an appearance (I did hope for his flesh double), the wedding to River was sadly forced (as it was the only way for her to let him touch her, with the kiss) and it was also conveniently placed so she's been married to him for almost all appearances. I'm not even too sure how they were able to remember what happened but the same thing did happen at the end of season 5 so no surprise. I knew that River wouldn't recall anything after killing The Doctor, but now it seems like she's always known, so now it seems as if there is a new timeline in motion.

It was a sad and touching moment when he tried to call the Brigadier. It did make me think about Sarah Jane and if they'll work the unfortunate passing of Sladen into Who at some point.

Blencathra
October 1st, 2011, 12:19 PM
I don't know what to think.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6005/6200935118_7b35183757_o.gif

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6178/6198539769_71b07ba920_o.gif

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3129/5803633489_4857d74abc_o.gif

I need to watch it again asap and Confidential (blast you BBC for cancelling it).

Lahela
October 1st, 2011, 12:22 PM
I've really disliked the romantic angle in the recent years, but for some reason I truly love that River and the Doctor are married. She's so not a doe-eyed youngster, smitten with Mr Timelord, but his equal. And so utterly wonderful.

So much to think about with this ep. So much emotion to process.

Demoniser
October 1st, 2011, 12:25 PM
I thought it was 'ok'. It wasn't a spectacular episode.

I liked the fact that they mentioned previous storylines and characters, i always like this as it shows writers can appreciate the bigger picture/mythoogy of a show.

Unfortunately, i didn't like allot of it. I though the entire episode was all over the place, and not in a good way.

The way the Doctor solved his death was a big anti climax, i'm sorry but i was expecting something..bigger and bolder, not faking his death by using a walking talking machine copy.

The entire bit with Winston Churchill was pretty pointless.

I can enjoy Doctor Who if i go in and switch off my 'adult sci fi' brain. The show gets away with allot of things because it's primarily a kids show.

It would have been better if

a) They skipped the previous episode entirely
b) Made the final a two parter.

This is the first series where the finale hasn't been told over two episodes. I think it suffered because of it, and it felt rushed.

Oh well will have to see what the Christmas Special comes up with.

Quizziard
October 1st, 2011, 12:31 PM
Some choice quotes
"How bad are my injuries?" - catching out the Doctor
"Pond, Amelia Pond" - for the kids?
"texting and scones" - the Doctor's idea of a date
"All that flirting - do I have to watch this?"
"We got married, had a kid and that's her" - Amy summing up an entire alternate reality for Rory
"I'm his mother-in-law!" - Amy's horrified realisation
"Doctor Who?" - widely guessed, directly or indirectly (e.g. "what is the Doctor's name?")

Loving:
the time-at-once future, as an idea and in practice, especially the steam trains and balloon-cars
the "live chess"
the toy-TARDIS double-take, having not noticed the drawings etc.
that the wedding technically only took place in a now-extinct alternate reality
Amy and River syncing diaries

Not so much
"A woman" - in response to a beautifully worded build up to what was wrong, seemed weak

Thoughts:
Nice mention of Brigadier L. Stewart - similar nod to that give to Don. S. Davis' character, after he died, in the Stargate canon
Most had worked out the eye-patches were anti-Silence, but the eye-drive was a nice touch
That he told her his name (to match up with "Silence in the Library") then revealing he didn't
Which means we still don't know when he tells her... since that's now revealed as THE question
Clever twist: no longer who killed the Doctor (or indeed, did he die) but an entirely different plot
Given the entire alternate reality was lost, what happened to the Silence and Kovarian
Also, many assumed the dead Doctor was a 'ganger - nice mis-direction from the first half of the season
We did have some suggestions that the big issue at the Lake would be persuading River (once it was revealed she was in the suit) that she did have to kill him (maybe not the context though!)

Teddybrown
October 1st, 2011, 12:39 PM
Ok, proper comment coming later ( I have Merlin to watch...), but...

For me, the greatest, most touching, most terrible, and most wonderful moment of this episode was the Doctor's attempted phone call to Brigadier Sir Alastair Gordon Lethbridge-Stewart. I will freely admit, tears streamed down my cheeks at this moment. The Doctor is about to die, so he calls his oldest and longest friend... only he was too late. There has been, imo, no more terrible moment in the whole of Doctor Who, and I wept.

From an out of Whoniverse PoV - it was such a wonderful scene to have included in tribute to a great actor, and the greatest character that Doctor Who has ever known. Moffat, my respect and admiration for drawing the Brigadier's story to a close in such a beautiful way given the time constraints.

To Nicholas Courtey, aka The Brigadier. *salutes*



Yeah, I thought that was a really nice touch to the character. I thought it would be Sarah Jane Smith that a trubute would be passed to.
The eye pieces being anti Silence was a bit obvious, but it was a nice touch that the Silence used it against them aswell, and the fact that they didnt care that they were using it on Kovarian too.
She got what was coming to her!
Also nice to see that Rory was as awesome as ever, standing to fight to cover their exit, and was nice that Amy went back for him.
It was funny that the Silence greeted Rory with the fact that he always died, and that that would be the last time...
It would seem that when it comes to the Silence, they dont really care about the people they are working with ie Kovarian.
Also, some of the visual effects were amazing like London in the timestream.
Anyone else think children wont be sleeping tonight when those heads ate the chess Viking?

The one thing I would say I was a just a slight bit disappointed about was that we didnt get to see Canton again.

Quizziard
October 1st, 2011, 12:46 PM
Just thinking of something else. The whole alternate time-line, frozen-time thingy was due to the "fixed point in time" not taking place. It was assumed to be the Doctor being killed. So it would seem that the fixed point is actually the "killing of a fake Doctor"...? (Now my head hurts!)

P-90_177
October 1st, 2011, 12:47 PM
Yeah, I thought that was a really nice touch to the character. I thought it would be Sarah Jane Smith that a trubute would be passed to.
The eye pieces being anti Silence was a bit obvious, but it was a nice touch that the Silence used it against them aswell, and the fact that they didnt care that they were using it on Kovarian too.
She got what was coming to her!
Also nice to see that Rory was as awesome as ever, standing to fight to cover their exit, and was nice that Amy went back for him.
It was funny that the Silence greeted Rory with the fact that he always died, and that that would be the last time...
It would seem that when it comes to the Silence, they dont really care about the people they are working with ie Kovarian.
Also, some of the visual effects were amazing like London in the timestream.
Anyone else think children wont be sleeping tonight when those heads ate the chess Viking?

The one thing I would say I was a just a slight bit disappointed about was that we didnt get to see Canton again.

Well since there's still one more series of Sarah Jane Adventures to get through that might have been quite confusing. Although I'm hoping for a similar reference sooner or later.

Teddybrown
October 1st, 2011, 12:50 PM
Well since there's still one more series of Sarah Jane Adventures to get through that might have been quite confusing. Although I'm hoping for a similar reference sooner or later.

It depends where in the Doctor Who universe timeline Sarah Jane Adventures is set...
But I see what you mean.

Draygon
October 1st, 2011, 01:03 PM
Can I have a fling balloon car please? :D

So many quote of pure brilliance that I can't write them all! Some choice moments though were Amy realising she's the Doctor's mother in law :P I also loved Rory's "last stand"; that despite being in extream pain he was going to defend Amy. The Silence even taunted him, saying how he always died and that this time she would never come back for him.... only for Amy to come in and gun them all down :D

liked the mish-mashed realiy though. It might be nice to learn what other events were goign on :P

Oh, and a nod to the Doctor's fling with Elizabeth the First! Poor lass, left alone in a glade waiting to elope. No wonder she wanted him killed! :P

Probably will have more to say.. .wehn I've finished goign SQUEEEE!!!!

Ryn
October 1st, 2011, 01:15 PM
Squeeee is definitely the right word for this episode. :cool:

Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble
October 1st, 2011, 01:27 PM
I liked that short they had on confidential 'death is the only answer' writen by the kids it was funny and good.

Teddybrown
October 1st, 2011, 01:30 PM
It was nice to see Kovarian brought down to weeping for help, when shes been so confident on her plans.
Was ncie to see them just ignore her while shes whimpering, then leaving her to die.

4thDoctor
October 1st, 2011, 01:33 PM
Wasn't that Liz Shaw who told the Doctor that the Brigadier had died?

Sealurk
October 1st, 2011, 01:40 PM
I don't think so - too young. But looked a little similar. Maybe that at least was intentional.

Alan
October 1st, 2011, 01:47 PM
I don't think so - too young. But looked a little similar. Maybe that at least was intentional.

Definitely not Liz Shaw. She's busy up on the UNIT moonbase.

Thoughts are getting coherent now. Should be able to say something constructive about this utterly awesome series finale soon!!!

Zarius
October 1st, 2011, 02:01 PM
So many good lines in this too, but now we have to wait till Christmas and 2012 for answers =(

You won't get answers in the Christmas Special, it's just another wacky adventure for The Doc

Teddybrown
October 1st, 2011, 02:06 PM
You won't get answers in the Christmas Special, it's just another wacky adventure for The Doc

Thats why i put and 2012 :)

knowles2
October 1st, 2011, 02:19 PM
It was an okay episode.
I enjoyed the flying balloon cars, the live chess, the pyramid. the Blue alien cameo from star trek. An Churchill as emperor . Even the catching up between River Song and the Pond at the end.

I did not enjoy the story. The ideas in the episode were way better than the story. See the Moffat got the mandatory Dalek in there, they got to or other wise they lose there license to use them after all (despite the bull**** he came up with for confidential, even he was stretching for a reason to include them). So that five season finals 5 times Daleks have appeared in them , not like I am keeping count or anything.

Through I am looking forward to see the difference between a loud and nosy doctor and a quiet Doctor trying to stay under the radar (probably cheaper episodes, less explosions, less CGI and effects, less aliens and less budget per episode).

Kovarian and the Silence are still out there and the Silence will still want there revenge. So there more storyline there, and we still do not know who cause that tear in the universe from last season do we.

I got a feeling next season we might be companion less for most of the episodes. But I hope we do not have the entire season focus on yet another death of the Doctor, cant they come up with something origina, than him kicking the bucket yet again.

To me it was hinted by the Blue Alien that Doctor may not know his own name and or at least some of his own past.

Hoping we get a blue alien episode next season, he an interesting recurring character.

Vyse
October 1st, 2011, 02:43 PM
See the Moffat got the mandatory Dalek in there, they got to or other wise they lose there license to use them after all (despite the bull**** he came up with for confidential, even he was stretching for a reason to include them). So that five season finals 5 times Daleks have appeared in them , not like I am keeping count or anything.



I'm just happy it wasn't a massive Dalek army being introduced and defeated within the span of two episodes again. It was such a minor part of the episode, it didn't bother me one bit.

Carter1994
October 1st, 2011, 03:12 PM
Proper comment later, but for now:

THAT WAS AWESOME!!! :D :D

SaberBlade
October 1st, 2011, 03:15 PM
I'm just happy it wasn't a massive Dalek army being introduced and defeated within the span of two episodes again. It was such a minor part of the episode, it didn't bother me one bit.

Could be worse. They reintroduced the original universe (not Pete's World) Cybermen on a big scale and defeated them within the span of two minutes.

Flyboy
October 1st, 2011, 03:19 PM
Could be worse. They reintroduced the original universe (not Pete's World) Cybermen on a big scale and defeated them within the span of two minutes.

Really?

Defeating SOME Cybermen is not the same as defeating THE Cybermen...

Vyse
October 1st, 2011, 04:44 PM
Are you referring to "A Good Man Good To War" or "Closing Time"?

Teddybrown
October 1st, 2011, 05:09 PM
If River couldnt stop herself from killing the Doctor, how did she fire enough to waste the energy of the suit?

SaberBlade
October 1st, 2011, 05:39 PM
Really?

Defeating SOME Cybermen is not the same as defeating THE Cybermen...

It's not about comparing what The Doctor did to them, but how well they were used. It was the first time the Mondas Cybermen were used (and only time so far) that they weren't scrap. Instead of giving us a massive two parter with the safety of the universe at stake, we got two minutes of Rory acting bad ass while The Doctor blew up ships off screen.

That's a massive let down compared to the times the Daleks have shown up a convenient army that will be used to thin out the main cast (Jack, Ninth, Rose, Jackie, Donna) but we get a chance of a fully functional Cyber Fleet and nothing really happens.

P-90_177
October 1st, 2011, 06:06 PM
It's not about comparing what The Doctor did to them, but how well they were used. It was the first time the Mondas Cybermen were used (and only time so far) that they weren't scrap. Instead of giving us a massive two parter with the safety of the universe at stake, we got two minutes of Rory acting bad ass while The Doctor blew up ships off screen.

That's a massive let down compared to the times the Daleks have shown up a convenient army that will be used to thin out the main cast (Jack, Ninth, Rose, Jackie, Donna) but we get a chance of a fully functional Cyber Fleet and nothing really happens.

While the Cybermen have always been a major villain to The Doctor, they have always been the source of some mockery. They are nothing compared to the likes of the Daleks and in the old series, certainly by the time the 4th Doctor had rolled around, they had lost all of their fear factor (with the exception perhaps of their appearence in Earthshock),
It makes sense to me therefore that they have become a sideshow villain. A enemy that the Doctor comes across and knows exactly how to deal with. It makes even more sense when you consider that they are so logical and computerised that they probably can't begin to operate on the same level as the Doctor. Unlike The Daleks that at least have the brains to take on the Doctor, at least some of the time.

Alan
October 1st, 2011, 06:31 PM
It's not about comparing what The Doctor did to them, but how well they were used. It was the first time the Mondas Cybermen were used (and only time so far) that they weren't scrap. Instead of giving us a massive two parter with the safety of the universe at stake, we got two minutes of Rory acting bad ass while The Doctor blew up ships off screen.

That's a massive let down compared to the times the Daleks have shown up a convenient army that will be used to thin out the main cast (Jack, Ninth, Rose, Jackie, Donna) but we get a chance of a fully functional Cyber Fleet and nothing really happens.

It wasn't a Cyberman story though. I recently did a themed Doctor Who re-watch of stories that focused on Cybermen...but I never even considered including A Good Man Goes to War because it wasn't a Cyberman story. I'd no-more call A Good Man Goes to War a Cyberman story than I'd call The Five Doctors a Dalek story.

The Cybermen seen were in a position which could give the Doctor and Rory the information they need. That was it. Nothing more and nothing less. It could very easily have been any alien force that the Doctor and Rory went to get their info from but Mr. Moffat chose the Cybermen. And I for one was glad to see them again for a cameo appearance after their last full story in The Next Doctor. Plus, A Good Man Goes to War shows that Cybermen do things between the stories that DO focus on them. That they have their set-up and existence within the universe and that they do things between converting civilisations.

Who?
October 1st, 2011, 06:41 PM
I understand what you're saying and I agree with some of your points you're right some of these episodes seem rush for example "Let Kill Hitler" it really could have done with two episodes.

I tend to forgive them for this because I read some where that these past two seasons have a lower budget than pervious seasons because of budget cuts at BBC and the agreement of no tax hikes to fund BBC….the article even stated Matt Smith was getting paid less than David Tennant so I forgive them for rush episodes/ no two part episodes.

Vyse
October 1st, 2011, 06:51 PM
That is a good point though, the Cybermen haven't been used well overall throughout the entire history of Doctor Who.

jameshawking
October 1st, 2011, 07:16 PM
The Tesselecta piece pissed me off, frankly.

1) The tesselecta files didn't have it on file that the Doctor was a tesselecta itself? Seriously?

2) It seems like some snide cop-out. Moffat didn't want to resort to using the "it's a clone" line so he just pulled it back one step "it's a clone but not really!" Like the difference between "I pray for the strength to forgive" and " I pray that one day I can pray for the strength to forgive."

3) Nice redemption of Amy's character. Not unexpected considering the circumstance, but still rewarding to see, for once, she was actually standing up for Rory for a change in a Moffat story.

4) Rory is the epitome of badass. "Oh, you're killing people through their eye. I got this." Can we get some motivational posters of Rory's Badassery?

4b) Why didn't Rory remember the real world at all? He's been shown to keep alternate realities in his head before.

5) Same question for Kovarian and the Silence. They have no temporal ability at all.

5b) it seems like a somewhat half-baked way to keep them apart for 20 or so minutes.

6) I loved him going through his old companions like that when he was struggling at the beginning. "I CAN GO TO JACK'S EVERY STAG PARTY!" or something like that knocked me right onto my ass.


Overall the episode was an 8/10 in terms of immersion, but when you sit back, or when I sit back, I give it a 6 or a 7. Acting was fabulous, pace was frenetic (a good thing), and overall very fun.

P.S. did they change the dialogue at Lake Silencio? I don't remember Napoleon giving him the wine, and I'm fairly sure he said "Don't worry, I know it's you." to River.

Dixie_Vampiress
October 1st, 2011, 08:08 PM
Really only one thing to say (besides that this is the WEIRDEST show I have ever seen...).

I REALLY, REALLY hope they they never reveal The Doctor's name. Like ever. Unless it's the definite end of the series. It would be just wrong otherwise.

Also, best quote imo: "We got married, had a kid and that's her." "Ok."
Rory is AWESOME!

4thDoctor
October 1st, 2011, 08:59 PM
I REALLY, REALLY hope they they never reveal The Doctor's name. Like ever.
Don't worry, they won't.

jameshawking
October 1st, 2011, 09:05 PM
Don't worry, they won't.Hi everyone. This is Bill. He's a Time Lord.

Killdeer
October 1st, 2011, 09:56 PM
OK, I'm very very confused.

The ending scene with Amy and River. How does that work? Amy says that for her it's after the Doctor's death. But in The Eleventh Hour IIRC after the Doctor's death she and Rory and River met the younger Doctor and went to 1969. So.....?? :confused:

I'm just trying to figure out Amy's timeline here, and I'm losing the thread. Sorry. :o

Quizziard
October 1st, 2011, 10:20 PM
The wedding was....weird. Not that I'm opposed to Doctor/River, but the Doctor suddenly marrying River as a way to get her to do what he wanted..... It just came off as odd. Here, I can't get you to listen to me, so let's get married.
She won't do what he asks because she loves him so much. Which is slightly odd. But, because he's prepared to reciprocate the feeling by getting married, or possibly because for her "and obey" is still implicit in the vows, she does follow his request once they're spliced. Which, probably, doesn't still count because it was in an alternate time-line. But, like Amy's murder, did still happen to those who remember it.

mr_kennedy
October 1st, 2011, 10:43 PM
Awesome finish to an awesome series :D, couple of things i didnt expect, it never occurred to me that, that could be the question, but i guess it makes sense, and i thought it would be a flesh doctor that got shot in impossible astronaut

It was cool seeing River from The Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone, still kinda weird to hear her say mummy and daddy when referring to Rory and Amy

Quizziard
October 1st, 2011, 10:45 PM
P.S. did they change the dialogue at Lake Silencio? I don't remember Napoleon giving him the wine, and I'm fairly sure he said "Don't worry, I know it's you." to River.
As suggested/predicted in other threads, we saw this scene from different viewpoints/editing. For the wine, in "Impossible Astronaut" the opening titles end and the action begins with them toasting using the word "Salut!". So they've already done the Napoleon line, off-screen. This time we see the whole sentence. With the "I know it's you", this time we see the alternate action "Hello sweetie" which, oddly enough, we didn't see last time.... ;)

Cold Fuzz
October 1st, 2011, 11:11 PM
I got home from work and immediately watched the season finale. I loved it so much that I watched it a second time and then a third time. :lol:


Things I really liked:

Ian McNeice returning as Winston Churchill :D
The Charles Dickens cameo
Dorium Maldovar returning as a literally talking head. :lol:
The Fall of the Eleventh Doctor foretold to take place at the Fields of Trenzalore

If and when Matt Smith's tenure as the Eleventh Doctor ends, we now know his exit story.
Prediction: The Fall of the Eleventh does not preclude regeneration and the coming of the Twelfth Doctor.
Prediction: We can infer that the final defeat of the Silence and their followers will come at Trenzalore and at the cost of the Eleventh Doctor's life.

The Silence failing again to dispose of the Eleventh Doctor.

They failed with the Cracks.
Even when influencing all the other aliens that hated the Doctor, they still failed.
They failed yet again, even when creating a fixed point in time.
Prediction: They will fail again at the Fields of Trenzalore.

The Silence being a long-running nemesis.

They're much more complex than the Cybermen, the Daleks, and all the Doctor's previous enemies. They've dogged the Eleventh Doctor since "The Eleventh Hour"

Amy having her own office... on a train no less! :D
Captain Rory Williams :cool:
The return of the Tesselecta

The captain saying they're champions of law and order and acknowledging that the Doctor is a champion too. One of the finest moments of the episode for me.

Kovarian's demise at the hands of Amy and the Silence.

Amy isn't above dishing out some well-deserved vengeance.
The Silence didn't care that they'd be killing their most prominent human servant.

The Question

It's not at all what I expected but I loved it. :D

I have only one criticism: We didn't get any backstory for Madam Kovarian. Then again, she and the Silence are still out there and there's still plenty to time to fill in the backstory for her. I doubt we've seen the last of her and the Silence.

pjt
October 2nd, 2011, 01:34 AM
I obviously knew it's not the Doctor who's being shot, but a substitute, but Moffat confused me with the fact that the Doctor must be there for the time not to fall apart. While I thought that using the Tesselecta is cheating, and wouldn't save time, I just didn't take that last step to deduce him being inside. This is so great, because whenever Moffat came up with first the almost people then the Tesselecta I "knew" it's gonna be the substitute River "kills".

Amy is the Doctor's mother-in-law. LOL :D

Blencathra
October 2nd, 2011, 03:08 AM
THIS SHOW. THIS SHOW.

How can it be so epic, so romantic, so sad, so funny all in just 45 minutes.

Moffat. You magnificant bastard. I will adore you to the end of Time.

What I loved...

:) The all of time togetherness - Charles Dickens, pterodactyls, car balloons, Buckingham Senate.

:D The Doctor finding the Dalek, ripping off it's eyestalk and then slamming it onto a bar. I think having a stetson has gone to his head. LOL.

:) Chess to the death. Shades of Blakes 7 there, much like the Klute in Gambit.

:D Dorium in the Cave of Skulls and his wi-fi connection. "You could have told me all this last time we met." "It was a busy day and I got beheaded."

:) "Hell in high heels".

:S The Brig. I cried. The poor Doctor's face.

;) "River Song came twice." *snerk* River killing the Doctor and then CHEATING. :D Amazing, wonderful River. And the Doctor's face!! LOL.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6158/6203254644_51c3d4d934_o.gif

:S "Time can be rewritten." "Don't you dare." Just like in Forest of the Dead. I know I'll cry when I watch that again.

:D The Doctor trying to set up Rory & Amy. "Mr Hottiness" & "Texting and scones" Oh Doctor! LOL.

:) Amy Pond and machine gun. & when Amy kills Kavorian. Much grim satisfaction from me.

:D "So you and me, we should get a drink some time." "Okay." "And married." "Fine."

:D Then the Wedding.

From this...

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6159/6203287224_c7abfafb42_o.gif

to this...

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6175/6202455228_b31b777bc8_o.gif

It was all absolutely Perfect. I can see I'm going to be watching that scene again and again.

:D The scene between Amy & River in the garden. Perfection AGAIN. "Of course I'm sure, I'm his wife." "Yes, and I'm his... mother-in-law." Wonderful, Pond family!!

;) Say no more

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6171/6203254356_0abc0532b7_o.gif

:) And the question. Doctor Who? Of course it was.

Cold Fuzz
October 2nd, 2011, 03:08 AM
After finishing another viewing of "The Wedding of River Song" on a whim, I went ahead and whipped out the series 5 DVD and watched "The Eleventh Hour" for the first time in a while. I'm very glad I did. :D The recent events, especially with what's happened with the Silence and River in the series 6 finale, made me appreciate "The Eleventh Hour" in a brand new way.

In Amy's spunkiness, I could see what we would eventually see in River. As well as her fire, it was wonderful to see the pure innocence of a young Amy waiting for the Doctor to return. From Prisoner Zero's warnings of the Pandorica opening and that Silence would fall, you could see the link to Kovarian and the Silence's obsession of destroying everything associated with the Doctor. You could even see the allusion to his eventual fall at the Fields of Trenzalore. It was also wonderful to see the beginnings of Amy & Rory's relationship, not to mention the whimsy of the Eleventh Doctor at the beginning of his journey. :D

Sealurk
October 2nd, 2011, 04:50 AM
I do now find myself wondering...has TWoRS hinted at what lies in store in the 50th anniversary special(s)? Surely, revealing the Doctor's name - if that is indeed the question that must never be asked - and the Fall of the Eleventh are worthy stories for the big celebration?

One thing still bugs me about TWoRS though - if the Doctor and River touching resets time, how did it work with Tesselecta Doctor and River? Or did I miss something?

Cold Fuzz
October 2nd, 2011, 04:55 AM
I do now find myself wondering...has TWoRS hinted at what lies in store in the 50th anniversary special(s)? Surely, revealing the Doctor's name - if that is indeed the question that must never be asked - and the Fall of the Eleventh are worthy stories for the big celebration?

One thing still bugs me about TWoRS though - if the Doctor and River touching resets time, how did it work with Tesselecta Doctor and River? Or did I miss something?

I don't think the Doctor was the fixed point in time per se. Technically, I suppose the Tesselecta being shot was the fixed point (and object) so the Tesselecta being in physical contact with River would indeed reset the timeline.

GodAtum
October 2nd, 2011, 06:33 AM
The tesselecta twist at the end was pretty obvious as soon as they showed them in the pre-title sequence.

the ending with Amy and river was a bit confusing. What episode was she coming from? I liked the way she said she had to keep Amy being her mother secret from the past Amy.

Sealurk
October 2nd, 2011, 06:36 AM
The tesselecta twist at the end was pretty obvious as soon as they showed them in the pre-title sequence.

Yes I thought so too, but I can honestly say I don't find it to be too much of a cop out, just a nicely scripted instance of the Doctor always being one step ahead or having a way out.


the ending with Amy and river was a bit confusing. What episode was she coming from?
River mentioned that she just climbed out of the Byzantium. She's referring to The Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone, which her uniform and appearance confirms.


I liked the way she said she had to keep Amy being her mother secret from the past Amy.

Yes, it was a nice way to wrap up some otherwise obvious inconsistencies.

Matt G
October 2nd, 2011, 06:37 AM
OK...

1. So, the Doctor not being killed makes things completely insane?

2. Thinking about it, time freezing shouldn't make it 5:02pm everywhere in the world! Biggest plothole of the ep.

3. Other than that though...the insane timeline was very cool.

4. Tesselecta. Didn't see that coming but you knew there had to be 'some' way out...

5. Doctor...WHO? Doctor...WHO?

When Steven MOffet is on it he is ON IT!

GodAtum
October 2nd, 2011, 08:17 AM
Thanks for clearing that up Sealurk.

Other thing, all of the Doctor's enemies tried to kill him and destroy the universe so what makes the Silence think they have a hope in hell of succeeding!

Alan
October 2nd, 2011, 08:55 AM
Thanks for clearing that up Sealurk.

Other thing, all of the Doctor's enemies tried to kill him and destroy the universe so what makes the Silence think they have a hope in hell of succeeding!

They don't know until they try. :)

Davidtourniquet
October 2nd, 2011, 09:25 AM
I loved Moffatt's "forced Dalek quota" for the BBC: Ok you want a Dalek, here's a Dalek, now moving on.

It was a great episode and totally unexpected. I've given up trying to guess what Moffatt is going to do, cause you never get it right lol.

The whole brief description of Amy and Rory's relationship in an alternate universe was fantastic.

I can't put into words how I'm feeling about the episode, best Dr Who finale of the new series (2005 onwards) possibly of the entire series.

P-90_177
October 2nd, 2011, 09:26 AM
Thanks for clearing that up Sealurk.

Other thing, all of the Doctor's enemies tried to kill him and destroy the universe so what makes the Silence think they have a hope in hell of succeeding!

Most of the times his other enemies go out of their way to avoid the Doctor. They only face him when he shows up to take them on, and while they'll do their best to defeat him, they do tend to fail alot. I mean it took all of the Doctor's enemies working together to decide to take him on and trap him.
The Silence however give the impesssion of working more out of desperation than anything else. For what purpose, we don't know yet but I see them as having a plan that can only work with The Doctor out of the way. They don't really want to take him on, but they have to because he's in the way of something else.

Alan
October 2nd, 2011, 09:48 AM
Most of the times his other enemies go out of their way to avoid the Doctor. They only face him when he shows up to take them on, and while they'll do their best to defeat him, they do tend to fail alot. I mean it took all of the Doctor's enemies working together to decide to take him on and trap him.
The Silence however give the impesssion of working more out of desperation than anything else. For what purpose, we don't know yet but I see them as having a plan that can only work with The Doctor out of the way. They don't really want to take him on, but they have to because he's in the way of something else.

Indeed. That's how it works. Bad guys have plans...the Doctor turns up...messes things up and defeats them. Its this legend the Doctor's accidentally built up for himself by all these appearances across space and time that's resulted in a pre-emptive strike back against the Doctor by the Silence.

Teddybrown
October 2nd, 2011, 10:03 AM
Also, they had the advantage of the Doctor not being able to remember them, but thats now kinda gone...

aintright
October 2nd, 2011, 12:19 PM
As suggested/predicted in other threads, we saw this scene from different viewpoints/editing. For the wine, in "Impossible Astronaut" the opening titles end and the action begins with them toasting using the word "Salut!". So they've already done the Napoleon line, off-screen. This time we see the whole sentence. With the "I know it's you", this time we see the alternate action "Hello sweetie" which, oddly enough, we didn't see last time.... ;)

Amy did mention she had two sets of memories of how it went down at the lake!

Loved when the tough River (who is so brilliant) is fighting her powerlessness (the suit is in control). Her unloading the weapon - then her emotion when she has to give in. I can see the Doctor going REALLY SWEETIE just this one time can you let me be right!!! :lol: ok so, take two! Later when she says her anguish for killing him would be greater than the pain of all of the universe. *hugs her again and again*

I loved how Amy/Rory's love for each other transcends timelines. When she comes back with the machine gun!!! *jumps to feet -- GO GIRL*

it is taking a while to digest and will take several watches to catch it all ... yet, it says something for a show when each time you watch it it gets better. that you can do as you said Fuzzy and go back and watch an old ep and get even more pleasure from it from the joy of the newer eps. it was what made me a SG1 fan.

Great Stuff!!

off to watch for a third time --- with my bud -- poor lad missed it last night!!:eek:

*bites tongue*

teehee!!:jack_new15:

Sealurk
October 2nd, 2011, 12:33 PM
Having watched TWoRS again, I definitely love the Chamber of Skulls and the macabre, predatory nature of the skulls themselves (and the line about why there aren't any rats made me chuckle). Dorium is pretty good fun as well and I can't help agreeing with his philosophy - as long as there's WiFi, life's grand. :D

I actually loved Amy being totally badass in this episode, surprising given my recent attitude towards the character (and of course Rory. His badass quotient just keeps climbing, but it never gets old). Assuming they're not coming back, at least not as regulars, I think Amy and Rory got a good send off and a decent ending.

The Doctor echoing River's final words to him at the lakeside was wonderfully sad, and him talking about Rose and Jack, inventing a new colour, saving the dodo or becoming a Beatle was brilliant. But the Brigadier...beautifully handled, Who team, really nicely, tastefully, sadly done. Kudos.

Also, I only just realised that Gantok, the weird Viking style humanoid that the Doctor plays live chess against (love that concept - chess as a death sport!) and who suffers the bizarre and horrific fate of being eaten by skulls was played by Mark Gatiss. Talk about slow on the uptake...

I love the huge shift in the dynamic of the series, that the Doctor is believed dead and cannot simply rely on his name, his legend, his influence to solve problems. This should make things very interesting.

But most of all...I love that the series title, a title that somebody came up with five decades ago now has a whole new level of depth and importance. Genius.

jameshawking
October 2nd, 2011, 01:08 PM
Correction:

The Silence aren't trying to destroy the universe. They're actually trying to save it. Hence them killing the Doctor at Lake Silencio, so the question cannot be asked, so that so that Silence cannot fall.

Equate it to a religious sect trying to stop Armageddon

PMN1
October 2nd, 2011, 01:14 PM
Reasonable but I was hoping for a bit more.

Alan
October 2nd, 2011, 01:53 PM
Having watched TWoRS again, I definitely love the Chamber of Skulls and the macabre, predatory nature of the skulls themselves (and the line about why there aren't any rats made me chuckle). Dorium is pretty good fun as well and I can't help agreeing with his philosophy - as long as there's WiFi, life's grand. :D

I actually loved Amy being totally badass in this episode, surprising given my recent attitude towards the character (and of course Rory. His badass quotient just keeps climbing, but it never gets old). Assuming they're not coming back, at least not as regulars, I think Amy and Rory got a good send off and a decent ending.

The Doctor echoing River's final words to him at the lakeside was wonderfully sad, and him talking about Rose and Jack, inventing a new colour, saving the dodo or becoming a Beatle was brilliant. But the Brigadier...beautifully handled, Who team, really nicely, tastefully, sadly done. Kudos.

Also, I only just realised that Gantok, the weird Viking style humanoid that the Doctor plays live chess against (love that concept - chess as a death sport!) and who suffers the bizarre and horrific fate of being eaten by skulls was played by Mark Gatiss. Talk about slow on the uptake...

I love the huge shift in the dynamic of the series, that the Doctor is believed dead and cannot simply rely on his name, his legend, his influence to solve problems. This should make things very interesting.

But most of all...I love that the series title, a title that somebody came up with five decades ago now has a whole new level of depth and importance. Genius.

Indeed. The Doctor has always hinted at being more than just another Time Lord and his true history and identity has always been a secret...but to know that the Doctor's real name has been kept hidden for a reason and that it has been done so because it too has a secret behind it only ups the secrecy level to an all new high.

"Doctor who?"

Teddybrown
October 2nd, 2011, 02:08 PM
How will the Doctor introduce himself then if he wants everyone to think hes dead?
Cant just walk in and go Hi! Im the Doctor!

Flyboy
October 2nd, 2011, 02:27 PM
How will the Doctor introduce himself then if he wants everyone to think hes dead?
Cant just walk in and go Hi! Im the Doctor!

John Smith. As always.

Alan
October 2nd, 2011, 02:48 PM
John Smith. As always.

Yep. :)

Tanith0709
October 2nd, 2011, 04:24 PM
Not sure if this has been answered but how did the Tesselecta give off regeneration energy when it was shot?

Alan
October 2nd, 2011, 04:29 PM
Not sure if this has been answered but how did the Tesselecta give off regeneration energy when it was shot?

:lol: The Tesselecta can turn its legs into a motorcycle...and you are asking about what is essentially a lightshow??

Cold Fuzz
October 2nd, 2011, 04:59 PM
:lol: The Tesselecta can turn its legs into a motorcycle...and you are asking about what is essentially a lightshow??

I think the regeneration energy can be easily imitated as you said. However, what I found more difficult to imitate was the Doctor's speech patterns and his hyperactive mannerisms. I initially didn't consider the Tesselecta to be a viable way for the Doctor to escape his fate at Lake Silencio. When "Let's Kill Hitler" first aired, we saw how stiff the Tesselecta seemed to be, especially when imitating that Nazi officer.

Alan
October 2nd, 2011, 05:15 PM
I think the regeneration energy can be easily imitated as you said. However, what I found more difficult to imitate was the Doctor's speech patterns and his hyperactive mannerisms. I initially didn't consider the Tesselecta to be a viable way for the Doctor to escape his fate at Lake Silencio. When "Let's Kill Hitler" first aired, we saw how stiff the Tesselecta seemed to be, especially when imitating that Nazi officer.

Well with the Doctor piloting it, the Tesselecta was bound to be running a lot more smoothly when the person that it is imitating is controlling it.

Draygon
October 2nd, 2011, 05:51 PM
Well with the Doctor piloting it, the Tesselecta was bound to be running a lot more smoothly when the person that it is imitating is controlling it.
Can you imagine what it must have been like for the poor Captain? :P

"No! More running, and I don't talk like that. You're far too stiff, loosen up a bit, come on. You know what, move out the way, I'm driving!"

Alan
October 2nd, 2011, 05:57 PM
Can you imagine what it must have been like for the poor Captain? :P

"No! More running, and I don't talk like that. You're far too stiff, loosen up a bit, come on. You know what, move out the way, I'm driving!"

:lol: If it were me I'd probably be thinking "Bloody back seat drivers!" :lol:

aintright
October 2nd, 2011, 06:18 PM
I think the regeneration energy can be easily imitated as you said. However, what I found more difficult to imitate was the Doctor's speech patterns and his hyperactive mannerisms. I initially didn't consider the Tesselecta to be a viable way for the Doctor to escape his fate at Lake Silencio. When "Let's Kill Hitler" first aired, we saw how stiff the Tesselecta seemed to be, especially when imitating that Nazi officer.

consider the subject!!

DR!!! vs Nazi!!!

fluid vs stiffness

obvious result!!

just thinking .... "out back getting my good straw! ... more fizz" :eek: .... wouldn't that have come from the mini Dr. directing the captain??? :lol:

......


tick tock goes the clock .... river .... prison ...

hoping we will get an ep that addresses River's incarceration! i am sure she would make it most amusing!!


teehee!!:jack_new15:

Cold Fuzz
October 2nd, 2011, 06:18 PM
Well with the Doctor piloting it, the Tesselecta was bound to be running a lot more smoothly when the person that it is imitating is controlling it.

When the Doctor whispered to River to look into his eye, he was definitely not piloting the Tesselecta as he was in one of its eyes. The rest of the time, however, he was likely controlling it, especially the picnic at Lake Silencio.

Cold Fuzz
October 2nd, 2011, 06:20 PM
consider the subject!!

DR!!! vs Nazi!!!

fluid vs stiffness

obvious result!!

just thinking .... "outback getting my good straw! ... more fizz" :eek: .... wouldn't that have come from the mini Dr. directing the captain??? :lol:

......


tick tock goes the clock .... river .... prison ...

hoping we will get an ep that addresses River's incarceration! i am sure she would make it most amusing!!


teehee!!:jack_new15:

That line about getting the straw was definitely not from the Tesselecta. At that point in "The Impossible Astronaut" the 1103-year-old Doctor (the Tesselecta) had already "died" at Lake Silencio. River, Amy, and Rory had encountered the 909-year-old Doctor at the diner and that's who they were talking to when he mentioned the line about the line with the straw.

4thDoctor
October 2nd, 2011, 07:13 PM
The Doctor does lie, he tells Amy on the train that he has never had an office. The fibber, he did have an office on Gallifrey in "The Invasion of Time"

Alan
October 2nd, 2011, 07:17 PM
The Doctor does lie, he tells Amy on the train that he has never had an office. The fibber, he did have an office on Gallifrey in "The Invasion of Time"

:lol: I think he forgot actually. He lost his memory at the end of that story.

4thDoctor
October 2nd, 2011, 08:49 PM
That's right.....I forgot. 32214

Quizziard
October 2nd, 2011, 09:56 PM
The wedding was....weird. Not that I'm opposed to Doctor/River, but the Doctor suddenly marrying River as a way to get her to do what he wanted..... It just came off as odd. Here, I can't get you to listen to me, so let's get married.She won't do what he asks because she loves him so much. Which is slightly odd. But, because he's prepared to reciprocate the feeling by getting married, or possibly because for her "and obey" is still implicit in the vows, she does follow his request once they're spliced. Which, probably, doesn't still count because it was in an alternate time-line. But, like Amy's murder, did still happen to those who remember it.
Obviously I forgot the most important bit: she changed her mind because he whispered in her ear words to the effect of, "you're not going to be killing me, it's all a big trick"

Quizziard
October 2nd, 2011, 09:58 PM
That line about getting the straw was definitely not from the Tesselecta. At that point in "The Impossible Astronaut" the 1103-year-old Doctor (the Tesselecta) had already "died" at Lake Silencio. River, Amy, and Rory had encountered the 909-year-old Doctor at the diner and that's who they were talking to when he mentioned the line about the line with the straw.
This is where it all gets complicated for me. Two big questions, I suppose. Was he ever 1103 in this series, or was that just Rule #1 to fool them? Bringing us back to the obvious question, what is the Doctor's timeline through this season? Was the version inside the Tesselecta an older or younger version (and from where) than the one with the special straw?

Cold Fuzz
October 2nd, 2011, 10:04 PM
This is where it all gets complicated for me. Two big questions, I suppose. Was he ever 1103 in this series, or was that just Rule #1 to fool them? Bringing us back to the obvious question, what is the Doctor's timeline through this season? Was the version inside the Tesselecta an older or younger version (and from where) than the one with the special straw?

The Doctor inside the Tesselecta had to have been an older version than the one with the special straw. It's been stated in a press release that "Closing Time" takes place about 200 subjective years after "The God Complex" in the Doctor's timeline so he wasn't lying when he said his age was 1103. By the time he received his stetson from Craig and hatched the plan with the Tesselecta captain, he had been on his Farewell Tour (aka running away from his destiny) for quite some time. It was only when he made that fateful attempt to contact the Brigadier that he decided to finally stop running and said, "It's time."

Alan
October 3rd, 2011, 05:14 AM
That's right.....I forgot. 32214

:lol: How ironic. You haven't been near any D-Mat guns lately, have you? ;)

fumblesmcstupid
October 3rd, 2011, 05:07 PM
I like the end where River popped in to see Mum and Dad and you could tell they've grown closer over.. uh however long they have been doing this.

I like the episode. I now have to have a marathon of all 11's episodes.

4thDoctor
October 3rd, 2011, 06:52 PM
You haven't been near any D-Mat guns lately, have you?

Who told?!?..........RODAN! 32227

Alan
October 4th, 2011, 04:46 AM
who told?!?..........rodan! 32227

roflmao

Chevron999
October 4th, 2011, 05:56 AM
Question: How did "the time travelling robot operated by tiny people" manage to fake, atleast half of, a regeneration? :S

Alan
October 4th, 2011, 06:01 AM
Question: How did "the time travelling robot operated by tiny people" manage to fake, atleast half of, a regeneration? :S

This has actually already been asked on this thread but I'm more than happy to answer it again: The robot was able to turn its legs in to a motorbike. I think a simple thing like a light show would be child's play by comparison to pull off.

P-90_177
October 4th, 2011, 07:48 AM
This has actually already been asked on this thread but I'm more than happy to answer it again: The robot was able to turn its legs in to a motorbike. I think a simple thing like a light show would be child's play by comparison to pull off.

^ This ^

Carter1994
October 4th, 2011, 01:09 PM
A nice continuity nod:

31.13 The Big Bang:
River: Did you dance? Well, you always dance at weddings.

32.13 The Wedding of River Song:
Doctor: Look into my eye.

(the Doctor twirls around, "dancing", then tips his hat)


Don't think anyone's mentioned that yet. :)


EDIT: By the way, the sketch that Amy thought might be Rory--I think it's actually Jeff, isn't it?

Cold Fuzz
October 4th, 2011, 04:19 PM
A nice continuity nod:

31.13 The Big Bang:
River: Did you dance? Well, you always dance at weddings.

32.13 The Wedding of River Song:
Doctor: Look into my eye.

(the Doctor twirls around, "dancing", then tips his hat)


Don't think anyone's mentioned that yet. :)


EDIT: By the way, the sketch that Amy thought might be Rory--I think it's actually Jeff, isn't it?

Having re-watched "The Eleventh Hour" recently, I think that sketch is Jeff. :lol: The hair is a little weird but the face is definitely him. Very observant. :D

4thDoctor
October 4th, 2011, 04:31 PM
Amy isn't a very good wife to Rory is she?

Cold Fuzz
October 4th, 2011, 05:08 PM
Amy isn't a very good wife to Rory is she?

I wouldn't go so far as to say that. That incident with Jeff (and there wasn't anything inappropriate between them) in "The Eleventh Hour" took place over 2 years before they were married. Since then, Rory has lived as the Last Centurion and she sees him in a completely different way, especially given how she spoke about him to baby Melody in "A Good Man Goes to War."

P-90_177
October 4th, 2011, 05:55 PM
I wouldn't go so far as to say that. That incident with Jeff (and there wasn't anything inappropriate between them) in "The Eleventh Hour" took place over 2 years before they were married. Since then, Rory has lived as the Last Centurion and she sees him in a completely different way, especially given how she spoke about him to baby Melody in "A Good Man Goes to War."

Indeed. Amy is the sort of girl that enjoys teasing in a perfectly harmless way. At the end of the day you can tell from hers and rorys relationship now that she'd never do anything to lose him.

4thDoctor
October 4th, 2011, 05:57 PM
She still treats him like he's one of those idiotic sitcom husbands.

Carter1994
October 4th, 2011, 06:09 PM
She still treats him like he's one of those idiotic sitcom husbands.

To be fair, Amy treats pretty much everyone (with the exception of maybe River) like that. http://forum.narniaweb.com/images/smilies/71.gif

Cold Fuzz
October 4th, 2011, 06:11 PM
She still treats him like he's one of those idiotic sitcom husbands.

Those sitcom husbands wouldn't be able to fight off a group of Headless Monks with a gun and a sword while a battle-hardened Sontaran lay dying nearby. Amy's no fool. While she may enjoy teasing him she knows the difference between being mean-spirited and being playful. She doesn't take the fact that he guarded the Pandorica for 2,000 years for granted either. If she did, she wouldn't have held out hope of him rescuing her at Demon's Run or repeatedly acknowledging him as the true protector in her life--not the Doctor.


To be fair, Amy treats pretty much everyone (with the exception of maybe River) like that. http://forum.narniaweb.com/images/smilies/71.gif

Very true. I notice that her interactions with River in the past (especially in "The Time of Angels" and "Flesh and Stone") have always been different than with any other character. Some foreshadowing there perhaps?

4thDoctor
October 4th, 2011, 06:16 PM
I lost all respect for Amy when she tried to get the Doctor into her bed on the night before her wedding. Rory wouldn't have tried that with Romana.

Cold Fuzz
October 4th, 2011, 06:21 PM
I lost all respect for Amy when she tried to get the Doctor into her bed on the night before her wedding. Rory wouldn't have tried that with Romana.

She was running away for one last jaunt and truly chose Rory when the time came. She wouldn't be unfaithful to him now. Speaking of running, the Doctor ran away from his destiny at Lake Silencio for 200 subjective years in his timeline while she ran away for, what, all of maybe several months of subjective time?

4thDoctor
October 4th, 2011, 06:24 PM
If I were engaged and discovered that my bride to be was having a last "jaunt" she would no longer be my bride to be.

Cold Fuzz
October 4th, 2011, 06:30 PM
If I were engaged and discovered that my bride to be was having a last "jaunt" she would no longer be my bride to be.

In the end, she chose Rory, despite the Dream Lord's challenges. Their relationship was tested and in the end she really chose him. I think their relationship was pretty untested by advserity and fairly weak up until the Doctor came into their lives the night before the wedding.

I'd rather have somebody be tempted and choose me in the end rather than someone who was unsure about being with me the whole time.

Sheppard little minx
October 4th, 2011, 07:08 PM
thought it was brillant. Can't wait for xmas

One thing though if time is frozen at 5.03pm when the time is restored big ben chimed. I thought Big Ben only chimed at top of the hour

P-90_177
October 4th, 2011, 07:09 PM
In the end, she chose Rory, despite the Dream Lord's challenges. Their relationship was tested and in the end she really chose him. I think their relationship was pretty untested by advserity and fairly weak up until the Doctor came into their lives the night before the wedding.

I'd rather have somebody be tempted and choose me in the end rather than someone who was unsure about being with me the whole time.

On top of that the Doctor had been her fairytale Prince Charming for as long as she could remember. That's a powerful thing for anyone, on top of the fact that at the end of the day the Doctor drops out of the sky to pick up young women and take them around the Universe in general. Amy could be forgiven for thinking that he wanted to have a deeper connection with her than having a new companion.
A womans fantasy can be a strong thing. :P

Cold Fuzz
October 4th, 2011, 07:24 PM
On top of that the Doctor had been her fairytale Prince Charming for as long as she could remember. That's a powerful thing for anyone, on top of the fact that at the end of the day the Doctor drops out of the sky to pick up young women and take them around the Universe in general. Amy could be forgiven for thinking that he wanted to have a deeper connection with her than having a new companion.
A womans fantasy can be a strong thing. :P

Indeed. That's all changed for Amy now. After the events in "The God Complex" where the Doctor asked her to let go of her faith in him, I strongly doubt she looks at him as her fairytale Prince Charming anymore. In that moment, she finally grew up and ceased to be the Girl Who Waited. I think that she looks at the Doctor for who he really is now. I think that will solidify her relationship with Rory even more as she's not needing the Doctor to come out of the sky and swoop her out of her boring life. She has the Last Centurion in her real life.

jameshawking
October 4th, 2011, 08:46 PM
To counter a point previously made:

Amy actually did seem to entirely forget the "last centurion" role of Rory, and his entirely self-sacrificing MO, when he was trying to help that plain looking woman with the Flesh episodes.

It's actually one of the first BIG WARNING SIGNS I had about Amy Pond as a character that went beyond simple annoyance.

"He spent 2,000 years protecting me in solitude, saving me from the Blitz and Gauls and the Welsh and time itself, accepted my love of the Doctor without a question, and was my rock when the Doctor died, doing everything from holding Amy to burning the Doctor himself, and is even smarter than me and has more initiative. I'll be DAMNED IF HE SHOWS CARE FOR ANOTHER WOMAN."

While she certainly remembers it about him when she sits back to think about it, it's hardly her first thought of him, even as recently as the God Complex where her deepest fear isn't losing Rory but losing the Doctor.



Amusement: Amy running off with the Doctor in and of itself isn't a bad thing. It's typical to get cold feet and, hey, he has a Time Machine.

However, doing it in the bed that she and Rory, probably numerous times, had sex in, after having talked to Doctor about Rory IMMEDIATELY PRIOR, is clearly gross betrayal, no matter how you slice it.

I wonder how the people defending her would feel if their own wives/husbands not only wanted a last-minute shag, but they wanted to do it in a bed they slept in, with their wedding dress/tux in view, how they'd think.

Her character in the beginning was, frankly, a fairly horrible one. She grew and became a great one over time, but trying to defend her horrible actions as some flight-of-fancy "the dreams of a woman are powerful" mumbo jumbo is a pile of manure I'm sure could be used by a farm for at least a decade.

And arguing that what many view as a "strong woman" needed a man to break her soul and her faith to make her into a stronger, more loving wife is actually a disservice to her character more than anything else. Not only is she incapable of controlling herself, as that implies, but apparently she can't even have a solid relationship with her own husband unless another man forces her into it.

P-90_177
October 6th, 2011, 08:17 AM
To counter the point regarding her jealousy in rebel flesh, keep in mind that she never got angry at Rory. She looked concerned but she trusted Rory enough to do what he had to do be cause she knew it was in his nature to care about people that were vulnerable. The reason why she started to feel jealous is because she felt insecure. There was a new girl who looked up to Rory and saw him as a hero figure and made a point of telling him about it and Amy felt jealous that another girl had feelings for Rory, not neccesarilly because she felt there was any chance of him actually leaving her.

At no point did she pout, stamp her feet and accuse him of cheating. And the only time she actually tried to stop him was when the situation was becoming dangerous.
Jealousy can take on many forms, and it can contain may conflicting emotions. In this case Amy was happy enough that Rory was doing what he did best and taking care of people. She wasn't worried that he was going to run off with another girl or do anything to hurt their relationship, she was just jealous about the fact that there was a new girl showing Rory a personality that Amy never could, mainly because of her independance and strength.

Carter1994
October 6th, 2011, 08:49 AM
Right. Note to self: never mention references to Jeff again. :weiranime42: :P

Regarding the episode itself, I do have one little nitpick:

Remind me again why they needed River in the suit? I mean, if River had been brainwashed at that particular moment I probably wouldn't have noticed, but River states quite explicitly that the suit is in control. So... why bother making a Time Lady to put in the suit if she's not going to be doing anything? Why bother having anyone in the suit, for that matter?

Sealurk
October 6th, 2011, 09:38 AM
Maybe the suit needs an occupant to work - maybe it can hijack the wearer's motor control but has little or no motive power of its own.

Teddybrown
October 6th, 2011, 12:46 PM
To make it even more painful for the Doctor?

Starfist
October 7th, 2011, 12:18 PM
All I have to say about this episode is...
Wonderful Twist at the end... ! Well done...!
Roll on the Christmas special... :) :D

Nth Chevron
October 7th, 2011, 02:09 PM
Remind me again why they needed River in the suit?

Because the event at Lake Silencio was a fixed point in time and they both needed to be there, as the Doctor showed, there are ways around fixed Time-Points.

Whomever is behind the Silence movement has almost Time-Lord level knowledge of Time and fixed points and manipulation, so it falls to reason that to prevent the fixed point being shattered and causing the death of time (6x13) Kovarian was ordered to get River to the right place at the right time, most likely it was the whole reason for the space suit in the first place.

N.C

Quizziard
October 7th, 2011, 10:29 PM
Whomever is behind the Silence movement has almost Time-Lord level knowledge of Time and fixed points and manipulation, so it falls to reason that to prevent the fixed point being shattered and causing the death of time (6x13) Kovarian was ordered to get River to the right place at the right time, most likely it was the whole reason for the space suit in the first place.
Not necessarily - it turned out to be that River had to kill "the Doctor", but the Silence may not have known it was a fixed point. They were, after all, merely creating a weapon. Do any non-Time Lords even know about fixed-points?

4thDoctor
October 8th, 2011, 11:45 AM
The white & black Guardians would.

Alan
October 8th, 2011, 02:05 PM
The white & black Guardians would.

Indeed. The Trickster and the Trickster's Brigade would too I think.

Nth Chevron
October 8th, 2011, 02:42 PM
If the Silence knew nothing of these fixed points, then why did they go through ALL the effort, i mean from Season 5 toknow, setting the stage for River Song?

Admittedly, Rivers reverse timeline interference can be attributed to her existence itself.

But it still begs the question, why did the Silence raise the army it did to kill the Doctor, using an abducted human infused with Artron energy, stick her in a space suit that *may* have been able to move on its own and send her to kill the Doctor?

As for the "who knows" question about fixed points, as we've never heard of others as a point in time where if something doesnt happen then Time collapses, are these 'fixed points' or seemingly fixed events, another repercussion of the Time-War?

We know that Time was in a debilitated state after the destruction of Gallifrey, this could be another new symptom, knowing the Moff though i doubt he would want to resort to RTD canon.

N.C

Carter1994
October 8th, 2011, 05:10 PM
Indeed. The Trickster and the Trickster's Brigade would too I think.

Not to mention the Tesalecta. They mentioned fixed points rather frequently.

morbosfist
October 8th, 2011, 10:01 PM
Dorium is quite clear that the Silence were deliberately engineering a fixed point, and Lake Silencio was a perfect place to do that.

Quizziard
October 8th, 2011, 10:22 PM
But it still begs the question, why did the Silence raise the army it did to kill the Doctor, using an abducted human infused with Artron energy, stick her in a space suit that *may* have been able to move on its own and send her to kill the Doctor?
To kill the Doctor! They'd tried blowing up the TARDIS, which failed, so they were for a more direct approach. They did so in the cruelest way possible: stealing the child of his companions, training her from infancy for the task, then taking her at the right time for the job that they wanted doing. Isn't the death of a Time Lord inevitably a fixed-point in time?

Cold Fuzz
October 8th, 2011, 11:59 PM
To kill the Doctor! They'd tried blowing up the TARDIS, which failed, so they were for a more direct approach. They did so in the cruelest way possible: stealing the child of his companions, training her from infancy for the task, then taking her at the right time for the job that they wanted doing. Isn't the death of a Time Lord inevitably a fixed-point in time?

It depends I suppose if regeneration is a fixed point in time. If Dorium's warnings about the fields of Trenzalore are correct, then I can't help but wonder if that's a fixed point in time too. It could be that the Silence will face their ultimate defeat there and in order to thwart a fixed point in time, they wanted to create another with the Doctor's apparent death at Lake Silencio?

Quizziard
October 9th, 2011, 11:36 AM
Doesn't it depend if "the fall of the Eleventh" means "the death of the Eleventh".

Flyboy
October 9th, 2011, 11:54 AM
Doesn't it depend if "the fall of the Eleventh" means "the death of the Eleventh".

Could mean tripping over a brick...

P-90_177
October 9th, 2011, 11:54 AM
It depends I suppose if regeneration is a fixed point in time. If Dorium's warnings about the fields of Trenzalore are correct, then I can't help but wonder if that's a fixed point in time too. It could be that the Silence will face their ultimate defeat there and in order to thwart a fixed point in time, they wanted to create another with the Doctor's apparent death at Lake Silencio?

I'm starting to reckon that a fixws point in time is merely one that contains a paradox.

Cold Fuzz
October 9th, 2011, 02:00 PM
I'm starting to reckon that a fixws point in time is merely one that contains a paradox.

Definitely possible. However, I'm not quite sure what the temporal paradox would be in a fixed point like Pompeii.


Could mean tripping over a brick...

... which causes the Eleventh to fall, thus causing his death and bringing about the regeneration process to give us the Twelfth Doctor. ;)

Alan
October 9th, 2011, 02:41 PM
Doesn't it depend if "the fall of the Eleventh" means "the death of the Eleventh".

Maybe "the fall of the Eleventh" means the Doctor's eleventh incarnation falling from grace rather than dying. In A Good Man Goes to War they said the Doctor has never risen higher...what goes up must come down. Possibly a BIG mistake the Doctor is going to make will have people turn on him and that in turn results in the creation of the Silence and their war with him?

4thDoctor
October 9th, 2011, 02:46 PM
With Moffet it could mean the fall of the 11th planet or the 11th season for all that we know.

Cold Fuzz
October 9th, 2011, 05:05 PM
Maybe "the fall of the Eleventh" means the Doctor's eleventh incarnation falling from grace rather than dying. In A Good Man Goes to War they said the Doctor has never risen higher...what goes up must come down. Possibly a BIG mistake the Doctor is going to make will have people turn on him and that in turn results in the creation of the Silence and their war with him?

I think that part about how the Doctor will "rise higher than ever before and then fall so much farther" refers to the events in "A Good Man Goes to War" and not necessarily what's coming later. Now that the known universe will believe he's dead, he will definitely fall back into the shadows. Unless of course...

... if what I've heard about the Christmas special is true. If it is indeed a DW take on the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe story, people will think that Doctor is like Aslan, going through a miraculous resurrection. The Silence would then hate him even more so since such a resurrection would make the Doctor almost like a religious icon. Again, it depends on what happens with the Christmas special.

mi_guard
October 12th, 2011, 12:43 AM
I've stayed away from this thread because so far I had not been able to watch the episode and now I can't go through 7 pages of posting (not bad by the way :)).

I need some help. I was watching the episode which I had DVRed before and was near the end when Amy and River are staying in the garden of Amy's house and River says: "I am his wife" and Amy replies "and I am his mother-in-law" and then Bang! my DVR recording stopped :( nothing more. I can't imagine that that really was the end of the episode. Can anyone tell me if something more happened or was said afterwards? Would really appreciate a feedback. Thank you very much in advance.

Alan
October 12th, 2011, 05:32 AM
I've stayed away from this thread because so far I had not been able to watch the episode and now I can't go through 7 pages of posting (not bad by the way :)).

I need some help. I was watching the episode which I had DVRed before and was near the end when Amy and River are staying in the garden of Amy's house and River says: "I am his wife" and Amy replies "and I am his mother-in-law" and then Bang! my DVR recording stopped :( nothing more. I can't imagine that that really was the end of the episode. Can anyone tell me if something more happened or was said afterwards? Would really appreciate a feedback. Thank you very much in advance.

From The TARDIS Index File (http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Doctor_Who_Wiki) entry for The Wedding of River Song (http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Wedding_of_River_Song):

A monk carries Dorium's head back to the Seventh Transept. Dorium realises it is the Doctor and demands to know how he escaped. The Doctor tells him: River actually shot the Teselecta, with the Doctor safe inside, waving happily at her. Now that the entire universe believes him dead, it's time for him to step back into the shadows.

As the Doctor leaves, Dorium shouts at him that Fields of Trenzalore and the first question still await him. As the Doctor pauses by the TARDIS, Dorium shouts: "Doctor who? Doctor who? Doctor who?"

mi_guard
October 12th, 2011, 08:22 AM
From The TARDIS Index File (http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Doctor_Who_Wiki) entry for The Wedding of River Song (http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Wedding_of_River_Song):

A monk carries Dorium's head back to the Seventh Transept. Dorium realises it is the Doctor and demands to know how he escaped. The Doctor tells him: River actually shot the Teselecta, with the Doctor safe inside, waving happily at her. Now that the entire universe believes him dead, it's time for him to step back into the shadows.

As the Doctor leaves, Dorium shouts at him that Fields of Trenzalore and the first question still await him. As the Doctor pauses by the TARDIS, Dorium shouts: "Doctor who? Doctor who? Doctor who?"

Thank you Alan, that has been very kind of you. Looking forward to the special now :)

Alan
October 12th, 2011, 09:50 AM
Thank you Alan, that has been very kind of you. Looking forward to the special now :)

You're welcome. Happy to help. :)

Quizziard
October 12th, 2011, 11:36 AM
Can anyone tell me if something more happened or was said afterwards?
Nothing really... oh, apart from the marginally important, "how they did it" flash-back... ;)

Teddybrown
October 16th, 2011, 01:39 PM
I think I just figured out one of the lines from the Silence that didnt really make sense.
When they said to Amy "You will bring the Silence" and "Your part will soon be over".

She did bring the Silence to the Doctor because it was her daughter (River) that killed him, so she effectively brought his silence, because as we learn from TWORS, it is his Silence they are referring to.
And also, her part will be over because they only needed the flesh Amy till the real Amy had had her baby, so thats why her part would soon be over.

Coco Pops
October 17th, 2011, 12:00 AM
Well I'm the odd one out and thought most of the last season meh. Bar a few good episodes it was meh.

P-90_177
October 17th, 2011, 03:39 PM
Well I'm the odd one out and thought most of the last season meh. Bar a few good episodes it was meh.

But you're always the odd one out Coco. :P

Coco Pops
October 17th, 2011, 05:23 PM
But you're always the odd one out Coco. :P

Gee thanks , I think :)

Quizziard
November 24th, 2011, 10:31 AM
Just one question, a few months on.

On the beach the Doctor specifically mentions that he's 1103. But we know his "normal timeline" self is 908 or so. And we NOW know that 1103 version is in fact the Tesselecta with 908+months controlling it.

For the sake of my poor little brain - was he ever physically 1103 or was it just the Tesselecta talking. If so, why the ruse about the age?

Alan
November 24th, 2011, 11:05 AM
Just one question, a few months on.

On the beach the Doctor specifically mentions that he's 1103. But we know his "normal timeline" self is 908 or so. And we NOW know that 1103 version is in fact the Tesselecta with 908+months controlling it.

For the sake of my poor little brain - was he ever physically 1103 or was it just the Tesselecta talking. If so, why the ruse about the age?

No, I think he has aged. Between The God Complex and Closing Time he's done some 195-years of travelling. His "farewell tour".

Crazedwraith
November 24th, 2011, 12:00 PM
"Rule 1" - The Doctor lies.

At least I hope he was lying about his age there. 200 years of offscreen adventures is just pointless.

Alan
November 24th, 2011, 12:33 PM
"Rule 1" - The Doctor lies.

At least I hope he was lying about his age there. 200 years of offscreen adventures is just pointless.

Nonsense. 200-years of off-screen companion-less adventures for the Doctor opens up a gap that can be filled by stories of any media - novel...audio...comic book...adventure game...fan fiction. Never, ever put a limitation on Doctor Who.

Crazedwraith
November 24th, 2011, 12:47 PM
Book - comics -audio- fanfiction these things get written regardless of whether the tv show 'leaves room for them' or not.

Cold Fuzz
November 24th, 2011, 05:31 PM
Nonsense. 200-years of off-screen companion-less adventures for the Doctor opens up a gap that can be filled by stories of any media - novel...audio...comic book...adventure game...fan fiction. Never, ever put a limitation on Doctor Who.

For myself, i think he had many of his adventures with River during the 200-year farewell tour.


Book - comics -audio- fanfiction these things get written regardless of whether the tv show 'leaves room for them' or not.

True. But if he hadn't run away from his destiny for 200 years, it could very well be he wouldn't have come up with the plan to have the Tessellecta take his place at Lake Silencio. Evading death for 200 years tends to have a profound psychological effect on someone. ;) Those 200 years changed him as a person and affected his coming choices.

Quizziard
November 24th, 2011, 09:10 PM
For myself, i think he had many of his adventures with River during the 200-year farewell tour.

Would explain how he knows about Jim the Fish who was still building his dam.

Dusk
December 3rd, 2011, 04:41 PM
I wonder if Moffat hangs out in opium dens when he's script writing for the series...

I know many of you liked it. I didn't really. It was too camp. It makes me miss the angsty 10th Doctor days.

But hey there were a few laughs. Live chess. Ha! And the Doctor's attempts at getting Amy and Rory to hook up.

And so we pick up a plot thread that was first introduced back in "Silence in the Library" with the Doctor's 'name'. Whilst it is certainly an intriguing idea, it really has very little 'weight' for me. I mean, so what, we find out his name is 'Bob'... OK, good for you.

I think the show suffers due to it being targeted at kids and families over adults. I can see why Davies decided to introduce an offshoot for an older audience with Torchwood.

Alan
December 3rd, 2011, 05:05 PM
I wonder if Moffat hangs out in opium dens when he's script writing for the series...

I know many of you liked it. I didn't really. It was too camp. It makes me miss the angsty 10th Doctor days.

But hey there were a few laughs. Live chess. Ha! And the Doctor's attempts at getting Amy and Rory to hook up.

And so we pick up a plot thread that was first introduced back in "Silence in the Library" with the Doctor's 'name'. Whilst it is certainly an intriguing idea, it really has very little 'weight' for me. I mean, so what, we find out his name is 'Bob'... OK, good for you.

I think the show suffers due to it being targeted at kids and families over adults. I can see why Davies decided to introduce an offshoot for an older audience with Torchwood.

Doctor Who doesn't suffer at all. In fact it THRIVES on being targeted at families. Here's a little history lesson for you - Doctor Who was CREATED for families back in 1963. If it were suffering it wouldn't still be around today and wouldn't be about to celebrate its 50th anniversary in 2013.

darkhorseD
May 30th, 2012, 05:35 AM
thats definitely true, but, I did find a couple of flaws to the current season, most prominent,was them keeping the Silence shrouded in mystery, that was one of the problems with this episode of DW; it didn't clear up the mystery of the Silence.

Alan
May 30th, 2012, 08:36 AM
thats definitely true, but, I did find a couple of flaws to the current season, most prominent,was them keeping the Silence shrouded in mystery, that was one of the problems with this episode of DW; it didn't clear up the mystery of the Silence.

"TO BE CONTINUED..." I think that's how the phrase goes.

Berrill23
July 10th, 2012, 02:10 AM
Was I the only one massively confused?

It was over complicated. I may have been left behind after 'Closing Time' Trying to catch up on what the hell was happening!

When the doctor was revealed to be a *Spoiler*, I nearly lost it.

But i must admit, the CGI was amazing in this episode

Alan
July 10th, 2012, 04:55 AM
Was I the only one massively confused?

It was over complicated. I may have been left behind after 'Closing Time' Trying to catch up on what the hell was happening!

When the doctor was revealed to be a *Spoiler*, I nearly lost it.

But i must admit, the CGI was amazing in this episode

What exactly was it that confused you? Maybe I can help.

Blencathra
July 10th, 2012, 06:28 AM
Was I the only one massively confused?

It was over complicated. I may have been left behind after 'Closing Time' Trying to catch up on what the hell was happening!

When the doctor was revealed to be a *Spoiler*, I nearly lost it.

But i must admit, the CGI was amazing in this episode

I think a common failing among fans at the moment is trying to overcomplicate things. I admit to doing myself until I learned otherwise. For example - I thought there was some mysterious reason how Rory & River escaped from the Silence at the end of The Impossible Astronaut and we would learn about it later. But now I see that there wasn't a deep dark secret. They just escaped. Simple. I think this is also why children know what is going on & some adults don't. Children cut straight to the chase with no stumbling around looking for whys and wherefores.

So like Alan said, perhaps you could write where you found it complicated & we can help. :)

fumblesmcstupid
July 28th, 2012, 01:55 AM
This show hurts my brain...in a good way

skydawn
October 19th, 2012, 06:18 AM
I'm not going to lie, this season has definitely been a favorite for me, so much River!! But this episode capped it off. I'm a little bit late; I just now finished "The Wedding of River Song". It was amazing, and helped me understand so much. I love the almost "star-crossed" love between River and the Doctor, and seeing it come to this AMAZING climax made me smile. I am definitely a fan of River and the Doctor as a couple, and hope *fingers crossed* that we will see even more of it in the upcoming season.
PS - If there already has been more in the new season, please, no "SPOILERS"!!!

Alan
October 19th, 2012, 06:38 AM
I'm not going to lie, this season has definitely been a favorite for me, so much River!! But this episode capped it off. I'm a little bit late; I just now finished "The Wedding of River Song". It was amazing, and helped me understand so much. I love the almost "star-crossed" love between River and the Doctor, and seeing it come to this AMAZING climax made me smile. I am definitely a fan of River and the Doctor as a couple, and hope *fingers crossed* that we will see even more of it in the upcoming season.
PS - If there already has been more in the new season, please, no "SPOILERS"!!!

Oh, I like you. :)

skydawn
October 22nd, 2012, 05:29 PM
Oh, I like you. :)

Why, thank you! ;)

Coco Pops
October 22nd, 2012, 05:58 PM
Was it this episode River has the quote "There's only room for one psycopath in the TARDIS" because that quote cracks me up so much..... And it's hard to work out which one she means, her or the Doctor :p

Alan
October 22nd, 2012, 06:33 PM
Was it this episode River has the quote "There's only room for one psycopath in the TARDIS" because that quote cracks me up so much..... And it's hard to work out which one she means, her or the Doctor :p

I can't remember if it was used in this episode but it was definitely used (again?) in The Angels Take Manhattan.

Coco Pops
October 23rd, 2012, 05:49 AM
I can't remember if it was used in this episode but it was definitely used (again?) in The Angels Take Manhattan.


That's it it was the Angel episode......But the quote cracks me up..... It's hard to decide which one of them is more fitting the title psychopath considering how dark the Doctor has been recently :D

skydawn
October 23rd, 2012, 10:35 AM
Im glad that Im not the only person who adores River. Recent post have just confused me! How can anyone not like River Song?!:confused:

Coco Pops
October 23rd, 2012, 05:02 PM
Im glad that Im not the only person who adores River. Recent post have just confused me! How can anyone not like River Song?!:confused:

She's not only adorable but sexy:D

Alan
October 23rd, 2012, 05:54 PM
Im glad that Im not the only person who adores River. Recent post have just confused me! How can anyone not like River Song?!:confused:

She is a great character and her background story is an incredibly intriguing one!

11thDoctorLuvr
October 23rd, 2012, 06:02 PM
I loved this episode! I especially love the Doctor's quote about how it's time he stepped back into the shadows. He's done that and gotten a fair bit darker too. I also love the profile shot of Matt next to the Tardis.

Crazedwraith
October 24th, 2012, 03:24 AM
Im glad that Im not the only person who adores River. Recent post have just confused me! How can anyone not like River Song?!:confused:

Quite Easily.

Alan
October 24th, 2012, 05:33 AM
I loved this episode! I especially love the Doctor's quote about how it's time he stepped back into the shadows. He's done that and gotten a fair bit darker too. I also love the profile shot of Matt next to the Tardis.

Welcome to GateWorld! Look forward to seeing you around the Whoniverse section! :)

skydawn
October 24th, 2012, 07:19 AM
She is a great character and her background story is an incredibly intriguing one!

Exactly! She may be a minor character, but when you look at her background it is so interesting. The character herself has so much depth, and Alex Kingston does an amazing job of playing River! Also, and this is random, but River's speeches are far among the best in the entire series. I'm a theatre major and plan on using the "My Doctor" monologue for auditions. Mainly because it's amazing, and secondly because there is so much depth and honesty in that one speech. The one she does from The Time of Angels and Flesh and Stone is amazing as well.

skydawn
October 24th, 2012, 07:23 AM
Quite Easily.

Explain. I'm honestly curious. My friends aren't huge fans like am I, but they're indifferent towards her. Why do some people "hate" that character.

Crazedwraith
October 24th, 2012, 07:34 AM
Explain. I'm honestly curious. My friends aren't huge fans like am I, but they're indifferent towards her. Why do some people "hate" that character.

Because she's incredibly poorly written and conceived. And she's pretty much Moffat's Mary Sue.

On introduction; she knows all about the doctor, knows how to use a sonic screwdriver and fly a TARDIS better than him with no explanation. And is incredibly arrogant and smug about the whole thing and is just generally unpleasant to watch.

Later it turns out she soo special and awesome, she's the doctor's wife! And the kid of his companions! And a time lady for some stupid reason!

If this was a fanfiction would righty be derided as a mary sue character, with ridiculous amounts of skills and accomplishments and basically that the episode shoves down you throat and said 'oh yes. You find this women cool and awesome! Without ever establishing her credentials, without ever making me actually care for her at all.

But since she was written by the showrunner suddenly its all alright.


eta: It's like take Rory. At first he's a bit of a dweeb but a generally good person. At the end of his first series. He's the frikken awesome last centurion.( Making everyone else's boyfriends look bad)

Now imagine if we'd just jumped into the last centurion with no real intro, never having seen him before. It would be silly and you wouldn't know why you were supposed to care about him or find him awesome at all.

skydawn
October 24th, 2012, 12:47 PM
Because she's incredibly poorly written and conceived. And she's pretty much Moffat's Mary Sue.

On introduction; she knows all about the doctor, knows how to use a sonic screwdriver and fly a TARDIS better than him with no explanation. And is incredibly arrogant and smug about the whole thing and is just generally unpleasant to watch.

Later it turns out she soo special and awesome, she's the doctor's wife! And the kid of his companions! And a time lady for some stupid reason!


If this was a fanfiction would righty be derided as a mary sue character, with ridiculous amounts of skills and accomplishments and basically that the episode shoves down you throat and said 'oh yes. You find this women cool and awesome! Without ever establishing her credentials, without ever making me actually care for her at all.

But since she was written by the showrunner suddenly its all alright.


eta: It's like take Rory. At first he's a bit of a dweeb but a generally good person. At the end of his first series. He's the frikken awesome last centurion.( Making everyone else's boyfriends look bad)

Now imagine if we'd just jumped into the last centurion with no real intro, never having seen him before. It would be silly and you wouldn't know why you were supposed to care about him or find him awesome at all.

But isn't that the point? I mean the fact that she came on the scene knowing everything about the Doctor without him knowing her? That mere fact, makes the character all the more interesting.In fact, it's whole reason I began watching the entire series. Friends convinced me to watch The Time of Angels and Flesh and Stone. I had no clue who anyone, but the fact that River was a mystery in the series, made me want to watch to figure it all out. And I wholeheartedly disagree that she is poorly written and conceived. The episodes in which River is featured are my favorites. Like I mentioned before, they are so packed with emotion and depth. You can't tell me you didn't cry when she "died" in place of the Doctor in Forest of the Dead or when you learn that she's serving jail time for a crime she didn't do and is well aware of that.

Crazedwraith
October 24th, 2012, 02:42 PM
Urgh. My internet crashed and lost the detailed reply I'd written. Suffice to say:
1) That being 'the point' doesn't make River likable or watchable.
2) What 'depth' does River have again?
3) I can tell, in fact I am telling you right now. I cried at neither of those scenes. They tried but not matter how much Murray gold they blare at me, it just ain't happening.

AresLover452
October 24th, 2012, 11:38 PM
I'm not going to lie, this season has definitely been a favorite for me, so much River!! But this episode capped it off. I'm a little bit late; I just now finished "The Wedding of River Song". It was amazing, and helped me understand so much. I love the almost "star-crossed" love between River and the Doctor, and seeing it come to this AMAZING climax made me smile. I am definitely a fan of River and the Doctor as a couple, and hope *fingers crossed* that we will see even more of it in the upcoming season.
PS - If there already has been more in the new season, please, no "SPOILERS"!!!

River and the Doctor are the best married couple EVER!! I love how she talks to him, how they have their special way of flirting, and how much he loves her and she him!!! O_O!! they are EPIC!

skydawn
October 25th, 2012, 01:15 PM
River and the Doctor are the best married couple EVER!! I love how she talks to him, how they have their special way of flirting, and how much he loves her and she him!!! O_O!! they are EPIC!

Agreed!Though I wouldn't refer to them as an actual "married" couple, but definitely a couple. Madame Kovarian, "Do I have to watch all the flirting?!" And Amy did say that River was the only person he ever allowed to talk to him like that, in one of the Angels episodes. They do have great chemistry.

AresLover452
October 25th, 2012, 03:00 PM
Agreed!Though I wouldn't refer to them as an actual "married" couple, but definitely a couple. Madame Kovarian, "Do I have to watch all the flirting?!" And Amy did say that River was the only person he ever allowed to talk to him like that, in one of the Angels episodes. They do have great chemistry.

Technically they are married. They remember it so it happened even though it was in an aborted time line in a world that never was. River is still his wife. I LOVE THEM SO MUCH! Lol!

Greenee
January 21st, 2013, 01:35 AM
I'm still not sure what I think about River. I like her, yes. I enjoy watching the episodes she's in. Her speeches, her flirting with the doctor... all quite abusing, sometimes even touching and their first/last kiss, might be one of the best kissingscense I'v ever seen. Still though.... I' don't know... There is something, that's not realy convincing. I just can't tell, what it is.

maneth
June 29th, 2013, 10:45 AM
Loved this episode! I'm not too fond of River as a character, but all the episodes this season where she's appeared have been good, and those without her felt like filler.

This finale was the best of the season, IMO.

tomstone
June 30th, 2013, 12:59 AM
River Song and the Angels are what got me interrested into Doctor Who in the first place. I have to say that Rivers Character does have some Depth to her Character. Though I have to admit that I am going through this Series "River Song Style". So I witnessed most events in her order and not the Doctors. I have to say that every Actor did a great Job in portraying that Journey. When I arrived at the Library I felt really sorry for River since I knew the Day had come where her Dear Doctor wont recognize her.

What I am trying to get at is that her Depth is not what we have seen but the infinity of possibility ahead.