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GateWorld
April 18th, 2011, 07:32 AM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s6/the-god-complex/" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/thegodcomplex-160x120.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">DOCTOR WHO - SERIES 32</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s6/the-god-complex/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">THE GOD COMPLEX</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 3211 (611)</FONT>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0;">The Doctor and his companions are trapped in a hotel of horrors, where guests are subject to their worst nightmares orchestrated by a malevolent being that is invoking their worship.</DIV>
<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s6/the-god-complex/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Teddybrown
September 17th, 2011, 12:00 PM
Aha! Beat ya this week :p

Well that was an interesting episode...
Wasnt expecting that ending though, well, kinda did, but I thought it would be done in a different way, also in a different episode...
Overall the episode was quite a good one, but I wanted to see the Doctors fear! lol
Nice to see David Walliams in Doctor Who, his character was a bit of a chicken though... lol
Nice to see Amy has so much faith in the Doctor, but was interesting to see the Doctor take off that faith to get them out...
Some nice comedic moments as always, 'Somebody hit me, was it Amy?' Lol! Rory is awesome.
I wonder how Amy and Rory will come back to the Doctor, or will they even come back at all...

Next weeks episode looks quite good, but looks like they arent giving any clues on how it will lead to the finale.

Sealurk
September 17th, 2011, 12:03 PM
Quite enjoyed that. Some great lines.

The Doctor and hats again - even when they're not on his head, Eleven seems to be obsessed with hats of every description, even those large enough to serve as tourism information offices.
"Amy, with regret, you're fired." :D If only...
The Doctor has a degree in cheesemaking? Somehow, I'm not surprised.
"Somebody hit me - was it Amy?"
The Rory-Awesomeness Quotient goes up, this time largely in dialogue and concerning a car. Arthur Darvill will go far.
Of course, the house at the end had to have a TARDIS blue front door, didn't it?
Probably a wise decision not to show what the Doctor saw in his room. Anything else would only have ultimately been torn apart or considered a let down.
Blimey, didn't see that ending coming, at least not in this episode. Maybe the finale, but not two episodes before.
Anybody else actually feel sad for the alien minotaur thing?

Nth Chevron
September 17th, 2011, 12:04 PM
"The Stage is set"

A phrase that jumps to mind once the black roll son this episode.

I could've sworn after the minotaurs either warning of an impending Omega's return, or the Doctors description that we were gonna hear "Silence will fall" from some direction.

Overall an enjoyable episode with enough mystery and questions to make up for the setting and elevator music :D

N.C

*PS - Was i mistaken in hearing the Cloister bell in the Doctors room?

Lahela
September 17th, 2011, 12:33 PM
That was so freaking sad.
I loved it to bits.

Alan
September 17th, 2011, 12:39 PM
Great episode! Very chilling with some wonderful lines of dialogue!

I'm desperately wondering what lay behind door 11 for the Doctor - what or who was there and causing the sound of the Cloister Bell to ring?! :eek:

Thoroughly enjoyed it! Great to see the Weeping Angels (even if they were only illusions), great to see young Amelia again (even if she was only an illusion) and the scene between her and the Doctor was wonderful and moving!

The brief mention of the Nimon tickled me and I was totally shocked and surprised at the departure of Amy and Rory at the end!

morbosfist
September 17th, 2011, 01:59 PM
Amy and Rory aren't gone forever. Next episode, sure, but they'll be back before the season ends.

Alan
September 17th, 2011, 02:07 PM
Amy and Rory aren't gone forever. Next episode, sure, but they'll be back before the season ends.

Well they do have to come back at some point because the Doctor that left them behind on Earth has to age, invite past versions of Amy and Rory to meet him in Utah, and let them witness his death at the hands of the Astronaut. Whether they will be companions again though is another thing all together.

Sealurk
September 17th, 2011, 02:40 PM
Part of me thinks this is the end of Amy and Rory's regular travels with the Doctor, barring the occasional one or two episode return. There have been a lot of rumours to this effect flying around, and while I don't put much stock in them, it does at least 'feel' right.

Besides, the Doctor seemed to have made quite a significant decision to save Amy and Rory, and plot-wise their big 'purpose' has been revealed. All in all, not a bad send off.

Matt G
September 17th, 2011, 03:11 PM
1. "Here comes a chopper to chop off your head...". Slightly spooky.

2. Why the hell use a dodgy Earth hotel as an environment for something like this?

3. It was wierd in that there weren't any real bad guys this time round.

4. Exit Amy and Rory with two eps to go? OK...what now?

OK ep but I hope the next two eps are better.

Alan
September 17th, 2011, 03:12 PM
Part of me thinks this is the end of Amy and Rory's regular travels with the Doctor, barring the occasional one or two episode return. There have been a lot of rumours to this effect flying around, and while I don't put much stock in them, it does at least 'feel' right.

Besides, the Doctor seemed to have made quite a significant decision to save Amy and Rory, and plot-wise their big 'purpose' has been revealed. All in all, not a bad send off.

I think so too. It feels to me like the end of Amy and Rory's TARDIS travels. They may make their return as Captain Jack Harkness did in Season 29 and Martha Jones did in Season 30...but whether they'll be returning as companions again I'm highly doubtful of...but this IS Doctor Who. Never say never.

Carter1994
September 17th, 2011, 03:22 PM
Well.

The first twenty minutes or so were a bit off, but it started to pick up after that--definitely enjoyed Rita (though they killed her; WHY?), and Rory was awesome as usual. "Someone hit me--was it Amy?" and his reaction over the car. Sweet. :P Though I do wonder when the Doctor had the time to do that...

Once again, several one-liners from the Doctor. :D My personal favorite being "At the moment I don't know how bad, but certainly we're three buses, a long walk and eight quid in a taxi from good."

The score was very nice, while we're at it. An interesting little motif for the first Minotaur chase; it certainly had a different sound from Murray's previous work. That being said, there were some interesting selections from last season's score: a bit odd when The Sun's Gone Wibbly started immediately after a somewhat tense scene, but then we had The Life and Death of Amy Pond during the scene where the Doctor was breaking Amy's faith in him, and then to round it off, the beautifully tragic Can I Come With You? when Amy and the Doctor said goodbye... Yes. Very good choices indeed.

What else... ah yes. The Doctor's room? It seems it can only have contained one thing; drawing from Amy's Choice and a myriad of other stray comments, coupled with the cloister bell we heard, I imagine it was the Doctor himself.

The last scene, was... ouch. Really depressing. The Doctor all alone in the control room was powerful, to say the least. It's probably my favorite send-off for a companion in NuWho, actually. So, while I did feel a bit cheated that Rory basically got sidelined during the goodbye scene, however, I consider that almost proof that that's not the last we'll see of Mr. and Mrs. Williams (:D) this season.

On the whole, an OK plot that served as an excuse for the final conversation with Amy and Doctor. 7/10.


EDIT: Oh! I forgot to mention the hotel numbers! Amy's was seven (the age she met the Doctor), and the Doctor's was eleven. For obvious reasons. :P Nice little continuity nod, there...

Nth Chevron
September 17th, 2011, 03:41 PM
Could the Doctors fear have been himself either using the heart of the TARDIS to power the "moment" in the TimeWar or himself in a full dark incarnation? - considering weve seen him getting progressively more darkside since Matt Smiths tenure began

N.C

Teddybrown
September 17th, 2011, 04:32 PM
To me, it didnt feel like a sendoff for Amy and Rory, I think we will definately be seeing them atleast one more time, I think they will become a minor role in season 7, as theyve already said they will be returing in series 7...

Alan
September 17th, 2011, 04:38 PM
Could the Doctors fear have been himself either using the heart of the TARDIS to power the "moment" in the TimeWar or himself in a full dark incarnation? - considering weve seen him getting progressively more darkside since Matt Smiths tenure began

N.C

The Cloister Bell usually rings as a harbinger of dangers and disasters. It won't ring for just any little old danger or disaster. Whatever it was the Doctor saw in his room must have been MASSIVELY bad if it inspired the Cloister Bell to ring.

Teddybrown
September 17th, 2011, 06:05 PM
It would seem that putting them into that house was a definate plot device
SPOILERS for next weeks episode
It would seem next weeks episode is set 200 years in the Doctors future, and all the stuff we saw him doing while the Ponds were at home in The Impossible Astronaut, hs been doing...
http://doctorwhotv.co.uk/roberts-reveals-closing-time-details-26227.htm

Coco Pops
September 17th, 2011, 06:28 PM
Could the Doctors fear have been himself either using the heart of the TARDIS to power the "moment" in the TimeWar or himself in a full dark incarnation? - considering weve seen him getting progressively more darkside since Matt Smiths tenure began

N.C

Old Who already did that in the form of the Valeyard

Coco Pops
September 17th, 2011, 06:34 PM
The Cloister Bell usually rings as a harbinger of dangers and disasters. It won't ring for just any little old danger or disaster. Whatever it was the Doctor saw in his room must have been MASSIVELY bad if it inspired the Cloister Bell to ring.

But the Cloister bell should only ring if they are inside the TARDIS or it becomes a wanky plot device.

morbosfist
September 17th, 2011, 07:12 PM
But the Cloister bell should only ring if they are inside the TARDIS or it becomes a wanky plot device.It's a manifestation of fear. It doesn't have to be inside the TARDIS because it's not literal.

Alan
September 17th, 2011, 07:14 PM
But the Cloister bell should only ring if they are inside the TARDIS or it becomes a wanky plot device.

The Cloister Bell has only ever sounded within the TARDIS. But the rooms were showing representations of what everyone feared and one can assume that whatever the fear was that the Doctor saw in his room involved only the representation of a TARDIS sounding its Cloister Bell. It was just an illusion of sorts just as the Weeping Angels and the Clown were in the other rooms.

Dixie_Vampiress
September 17th, 2011, 07:46 PM
Pretty decent episode. I don't mind leaving Amy that much, but I will miss Rory. Seemed a little out of the blue for The Doctor to all of a sudden decide that they should part ways. Unless something in that room reminded him of their mortality.

There was one thing that I did NOT like though... As someone with SEVERE ichthyophobia, I did not appreciate the aquarium and am still VERY disturbed by happened to the creature inside it.

Oh, and nice to hear a Star Trek reference :D.

jbachandouris
September 17th, 2011, 07:58 PM
I can't get past the ending. I was shocked. You see, my problem with watching is that I 'forget' that its not real and when something like the Doctor leaving companions behind, I messes me up as I feel bad for the characters; at least temporarily.

I personally like the whole Amy and Rory dynamic. Only 2 more episodes to go? Whatever will I do now?

aintright
September 17th, 2011, 08:24 PM
hmmm!!

no doubt the dr saw himself ... in what form or time .... ????

will certainly miss Amy and Rory if they are truly gone!!:(

the whole conversation with the creature at the end ... not about the creature but, about the dr himself i suspect.


teehee!!:jack_new15:

DigiFluid
September 17th, 2011, 09:28 PM
really wasn't expecting that ending, very sad :(
that was definitely the cloister bell when the Doctor found his room....what could that mean?!
a mention of Nimon! And pictures of critters from the RTD years! Awesomeness, Moff :)
I really liked Rita and was sad to see her go. She would've made an interesting addition to the TARDIS crew
interesting tidbit I just saw on the TARDIS Index File: Lucy Hayward was originally called Lucy Miller, but they decided to change it to avoid confusion with Lucie Miller of The New Eighth Doctor Adventures

Lahela
September 18th, 2011, 12:35 AM
I'm confused... I thought Little Pond was the Doctor's fear (having ruined her life, exposed her to danger etc) but the Doctor's room was near where the Minotaur collapsed in the hall... so who's fear was Little Pond???

Cold Fuzz
September 18th, 2011, 01:05 AM
In "The Impossible Astronaut" the future Doctor mentioned that he was running away faster than he ever had before just near the moment of his death. That's what the ending of "The God Complex" felt like emotionally. He wasn't saving Amy and Rory as much as he was running away, at least to me. When 200 years pass for thr Doctor, he finally stops running. Maybe the Doctor seeing his room reminded him of his own mortality as well as the mortality of his companions. I think that would be enough to send him running, emotionally speaking, for 200 years.

mr_kennedy
September 18th, 2011, 01:17 AM
Yeah it does make sense that he would leave Amy and Rory on Earth.... especially when you consider that in the Impossible Astronaut they werent with him, they will be back with the doctor by next season :D, his just trying to run from death......

Blencathra
September 18th, 2011, 01:25 AM
I'm confused... I thought Little Pond was the Doctor's fear (having ruined her life, exposed her to danger etc) but the Doctor's room was near where the Minotaur collapsed in the hall... so who's fear was Little Pond???

That was Amy's fear - that the Doctor would never come back for her. :)

Cold Fuzz
September 18th, 2011, 01:51 AM
Yeah it does make sense that he would leave Amy and Rory on Earth.... especially when you consider that in the Impossible Astronaut they werent with him, they will be back with the doctor by next season :D, his just trying to run from death......

That gives the Doctor 200 years of subjective time to run away from his death at Lake Silencio, Utah. But that's also 200 years of developing a plan that could alter a fixed point in time, something that would of course have radical consequences for the timeline. Personally, i think he used the 200 years to shutout out Amy, Rory, and River from his life but then decided near the end of the 200 years to finally face up to his own mortality... by devising a plan to alter the timeline and undo his death. I'm sure it involves some twists to defeat Madam Kovarian and the Silence.

Blencathra
September 18th, 2011, 02:43 AM
i didn't know what to make of this episode to be honest - it was so like the episode "Lia" that Toby Whithouse wrote for Being Human. (The one where Mitchell goes to rescue Annie in purgatory.) It was quite enjoyable though. I certainly wasn't expecting Amy & Rory to depart at the end of this episode. There were unexpected tears. :S I thought that would happen at the end of the season finale. I'm pleased Amy mentioned River.

Favourite bits...

:) "Our anthem is 'Glory To INSERT NAME HERE!'"
:) "Every time the Doctor gets pally with someone I get this overwhelming urge to notify their next of kin."
:) "Something hit me - was it my wife?"
:) "You are a medical doctor aren't you? You haven't just a got a degree in cheesemaking or something?" Doctor -"No. Well, yes, both actually."
:) "But.. that's my favourite car... How did you know it was my favourite car?" Doctor - "Well you showed me a picture once and said "This is my favourite car""


I gave this one a personal score of 7/10. :)

Edit - BTW I was a gnat's wing away from thinking that the Doctor was channelling Red Dwarf when he said he was " literally an otter's toe nail away from getting us out of here." :P

PMN1
September 18th, 2011, 06:17 AM
Why did Rory see an emergency exit when no-one else did and why did it turn into a room door??

Nth Chevron
September 18th, 2011, 07:37 AM
I think that got covered when the Doctor figured out the Faith part, Rory has never shown faith in anything, except himself when he toughens up after travelling with the Doctor for awhile. But even then, Rory's isnt so much faith in himself as it is a simple confidence.

I think the door appeared so the ship could let him out to keep him from interfering with the ships plans for the others.

Either that or it was really dark and the ship wanted to space him to get rid of him.


Old Who already did that in the form of the Valeyard

I know about the Valeyard, i was just saying that given the Valeyard is supposed to be between his 12th and 13th regenerations, our Doctor is on number 11, if he IS headed for the Valeyard scenario then wouldnt it make sense for the Doctor to start becoming progressively darker the closer he gets?

Not to mention everything the Doctors been through over the millenia

N.C

pbellosom
September 18th, 2011, 08:22 AM
I really enjoyed that episode. It was creepy. It was moving. And not being a finalé the ending took me completely by surprise. I'm going to join in the "What was the Doctor's room?" speculation and say it was the Doctor surrounded by the wreckage of all his companion's lives.

I loved how utterly clueless the Doctor was about the subtext of the minotaur's final speech and it had to throw all subtlety away and say it outright.

4thDoctor
September 18th, 2011, 08:47 AM
A good episode. I must agree that the Doctor did see himself in some form in room #11, with the cloister bell ringing I thought perhaps he was seeing the moment at the end of the Time War when he time locked Gallifrey.

Galileo_Galilee
September 18th, 2011, 09:02 AM
You know, with the ending of this episode, if the Companions are always in danger like this and have to be saved from being changed, then I have to question what the point is to having them. I understand that the original point of having them was to ground the Doctor and help him appreciate humanity more, but really, if they are always in such danger then maybe he should just travel alone.

Skydiver
September 18th, 2011, 09:07 AM
they are always in danger...but they are also the only thing keeping him from becoming a megalomaniac bad guy. he endangers them but they are the only thing keeping him from becoming a 'james bond villain'

he needs to risk human life to keep in touch with his humanity.

he has ultimate power, and that ultimate power can corrupt ultimately, and the companions are the only thing keeping that from happening.

P-90_177
September 18th, 2011, 09:18 AM
So for Classic who fans.........................Who else reckoned the Minotaur looked to be the same species as the monster from the End of 'Battlefield'?
Even fits with the idea of them being a race that feeds off faith and fear.

pbellosom
September 18th, 2011, 09:21 AM
You know, with the ending of this episode, if the Companions are always in danger like this and have to be saved from being changed, then I have to question what the point is to having them. I understand that the original point of having them was to ground the Doctor and help him appreciate humanity more, but really, if they are always in such danger then maybe he should just travel alone.

Well yeah, he probably shouldn't have companions. In fact several times in New Who he has loudly proclaimed that he's not having any more companions because even though he needs them, it's dangerous for them and it shouldn't be about his needs. But he just doesn't have the willpower to give them up for long.

DigiFluid
September 18th, 2011, 09:44 AM
So for Classic who fans.........................Who else reckoned the Minotaur looked to be the same species as the monster from the End of 'Battlefield'?
Even fits with the idea of them being a race that feeds off faith and fear.
I haven't watched Battlefield yet, but I was pretty stoked that they mentioned the Nimon :)

morbosfist
September 18th, 2011, 10:20 AM
Why did Rory see an emergency exit when no-one else did and why did it turn into a room door??They explained that in the episode. Rory had no belief the minotaur could feed on, so it showed him the exit.


You know, with the ending of this episode, if the Companions are always in danger like this and have to be saved from being changed, then I have to question what the point is to having them. I understand that the original point of having them was to ground the Doctor and help him appreciate humanity more, but really, if they are always in such danger then maybe he should just travel alone.When he travels alone, things like "The Waters of mars" happen.

Alan
September 18th, 2011, 10:45 AM
"Classic Who"

"Nu Who"

:mad: AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

Anyhoo...Amy and Rory as companions are special cases. The Doctor's involvement with Amy at such a young age affected everything for her from age 6 and up. She's been caught up in that life for a very long time and it reflected on to Rory too so they haven't known too much of anything else. The Doctor's let her and Rory go so they can try and live the lives they should have had without interference from him. They've gone to finally grow up.

4thDoctor
September 18th, 2011, 11:39 AM
When he travels alone, things like "The Waters of mars" happen.
Or "The Deadly Assassin". http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/Connell1967/4docwhosmiley.gif

Alan
September 18th, 2011, 11:55 AM
Or "The Deadly Assassin". http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/Connell1967/4docwhosmiley.gif

Speaking of that story...depending on how you count Grace Holloway, Donna Noble in The Runaway Bride, Astrid Peth, Jackson Lake, Christina de Souza, Adelaide Brooke, and Wilfred Mott...Closing Time next Saturday could very well be the first story since 1976's The Deadly Assassin that the Doctor has been companion-less! Wow! :eek:

Quizziard
September 18th, 2011, 12:06 PM
My personal best line: "Don't talk to the clown!"

So, where did the Doctor get a car and house from though? Effectively just a cheap trick, like jumping back in time to untie/tie your own tie? Or a genuine gift for some loyal companions - if so, why not for previous ones? Surely they already had their old lives, set up in the most boring village in the country...?

Alan
September 18th, 2011, 12:52 PM
My personal best line: "Don't talk to the clown!"

So, where did the Doctor get a car and house from though? Effectively just a cheap trick, like jumping back in time to untie/tie your own tie? Or a genuine gift for some loyal companions - if so, why not for previous ones? Surely they already had their old lives, set up in the most boring village in the country...?

He gave Sarah Jane Smith her own model of K-9 and also a Sonic Lipstick and a Scanner Watch but only after he met her again. Other companions he hasn't looked back on. As for Amy and Rory's lives in Leadworth...those lives were still being overshadowed by the Doctor for years. The Doctor's removed his shadow from off their lives now and he's letting them live as they should have done before. He's rescued them from him. Their adventure is life on Earth now.

Blencathra
September 18th, 2011, 12:57 PM
Isn't the house Amy & Rory's own house, ie the same one that they were living in at the beginning of The Impossible Astronaut? Or did I miss something? I thought the Doctor had just bought the car.

BTW I've been thinking. :D (It doesn't happen very often.)

The Doctor said the weeping angels weren't real. But what about "the image of an angel becomes an angel"? Won't that apply here also? :S

4thDoctor
September 18th, 2011, 01:01 PM
The Doctor said the weeping angels weren't real.
Rule #1 The Doctor lies.

jameshawking
September 18th, 2011, 01:57 PM
I'm surprised that nobody else here is pissed off about how Rory, seemingly, was just entirely dismissed.

This is goodbye to both Amy and Rory, but Rory doesn't actually even get to say goodbye? Thanks? See you in 200 years?

I feel like Rory just was entirely written off for 90% of his time here, with the 10% of his time either being devoted to saving Amy (a la Demon's Run) or being the reason for Amy to not fall in love with the Doctor.

Granted, he became badass and hilarious along the way, but...really? I'm put-off by this shunting of his character off to nowehresville.

"Oh, a cool car! I'll go away now while emotional things happen."

knowles2
September 18th, 2011, 03:00 PM
Why did Rory see an emergency exit when no-one else did and why did it turn into a room door??

In end it was not fear that fed the creature it was faith.

Rory does not have faith in anyone to save him from his fear, which like all husbands in the universe the thing they fear the most is there wife. Thus there is nothing to feed off.

Teddybrown
September 18th, 2011, 04:21 PM
Isn't the house Amy & Rory's own house, ie the same one that they were living in at the beginning of The Impossible Astronaut? Or did I miss something? I thought the Doctor had just bought the car.

BTW I've been thinking. :D (It doesn't happen very often.)

The Doctor said the weeping angels weren't real. But what about "the image of an angel becomes an angel"? Won't that apply here also? :S

It is the same house.
The next episode (Closing Time) happens 200 years in the future, so Im guessing, that when he sends them the letters, we loop round to the Impossible Astronaut, but see it from the 200 years older Doctors point of view, and we see his plan to defeat the enemy/enemies...
Its definately going to be a timey wimey explanation...

Also, nice spot on the Weeping Angels, but I think, because they are just generated images, they dont have the same affect...

SaberBlade
September 18th, 2011, 08:01 PM
The Doctor said the weeping angels weren't real. But what about "the image of an angel becomes an angel"? Won't that apply here also? :S

I think there is more to it than that. These Weeping Angels weren't based on real Weeping Angels, such as the video footage Amy watched or in a photograph (which they have overlooked from 'Blink' as Sally gave the Doctor photos of the Angels) but rather taken from the memory of Gibbis. He's still alive so I'd assume he'd only ever saw them in their statue form and his fear comes from what they did to others. So Gibbis gets generic angry looking statues, while Amy on the other hand could have gotten the whole package.

With just a few statues there is no real to go for realistic Angels (such the clown, the girls, the P.E/Gym teacher) as he'd be scared just by their appearance and trying not to blink.

GodAtum
September 19th, 2011, 09:07 AM
I'm surprised Amy and Rory dont want to save the Doctor or even their daughter.

Alan
September 19th, 2011, 09:47 AM
I'm surprised Amy and Rory dont want to save the Doctor or even their daughter.

They know they can't save the Doctor because he needs to die. Their daughter is safe because her destiny is set and her parents know too much about the future. Let's Kill Hitler was the crossroads for the Doctor and River because he knows more about what will happen to her and River knows nothing about what will happen to the Doctor.

P-90_177
September 19th, 2011, 10:05 AM
I'm surprised that nobody else here is pissed off about how Rory, seemingly, was just entirely dismissed.

This is goodbye to both Amy and Rory, but Rory doesn't actually even get to say goodbye? Thanks? See you in 200 years?

I feel like Rory just was entirely written off for 90% of his time here, with the 10% of his time either being devoted to saving Amy (a la Demon's Run) or being the reason for Amy to not fall in love with the Doctor.

Granted, he became badass and hilarious along the way, but...really? I'm put-off by this shunting of his character off to nowehresville.

"Oh, a cool car! I'll go away now while emotional things happen."

To be fair. Rory went inside to get Champaign. You see him with it and a few glasses when he comes out of the house.

I wouldn't say the Doctor Dismissed him either. He got him a car......I mean come on......I mean he rarely gives his companions any sort of parting gift like that. This to me would indicate that the Doctor still had a special sort of friendship with Rory. I think all in all he actually got on with Rory better than most of his companions because on some level the two of them understood one another, and the Doctor knew that he could rely on Rory to take care of things when he wasn't around.

PMN1
September 19th, 2011, 10:43 AM
Creating the street

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/09/19/builging-a-street-for-amy-pond-to-live-on/

PMN1
September 19th, 2011, 10:46 AM
Isn't the house Amy & Rory's own house, ie the same one that they were living in at the beginning of The Impossible Astronaut? Or did I miss something?



There are piccies on the GallifreyBase website showing the front doors are different.

31956

Galileo_Galilee
September 19th, 2011, 11:49 AM
Different doors doesn't necessarily mean it's a different house.

Teddybrown
September 19th, 2011, 01:46 PM
Different doors doesn't necessarily mean it's a different house.

I thought that too...
Also, seeing as the Doctor saw his fear in a room, I wonder what the Doctor prays to? Amy asked, and the Doctor just avoided the question...

SaberBlade
September 19th, 2011, 01:56 PM
New house = bricks around door.
Old house = glass panelling.

If it was the same house, it would mean that Amy and Rory live through the death of The Doctor twice. It would also mean he'd have dropped them off at a point before April 22nd for them to be living in the house to get the mail he sends them.

So I do believe it's a different house.

Nth Chevron
September 19th, 2011, 02:29 PM
Unless something happens in the intervening time requiring a new door *shrugs*

Just out of interest, we know the location of future Doctors TARDIS is a key question, well as we've seen the Master do, the TARDIS can be made into a very powerful paradox machine to hold a paradox together from the end of the universe to its mere infancy.

I doubt the Doctor would do this, but, if he WERE to hide the TARDIS as a paradox machine it *could* open the way for him to die but still be alive AFTER being saved from the death resulting in the paradox, and working backwards to eliminate his death completely.

N.C

SaberBlade
September 19th, 2011, 09:18 PM
Unless something happens in the intervening time requiring a new door *shrugs*

Just out of interest, we know the location of future Doctors TARDIS is a key question, well as we've seen the Master do, the TARDIS can be made into a very powerful paradox machine to hold a paradox together from the end of the universe to its mere infancy.

I doubt the Doctor would do this, but, if he WERE to hide the TARDIS as a paradox machine it *could* open the way for him to die but still be alive AFTER being saved from the death resulting in the paradox, and working backwards to eliminate his death completely.

N.C

The problem isn't eliminating The Doctor's death, it's eliminating his death but keeping all the events of season 6 intact otherwise it would rip a hole in the time/space continuum and all that bad timey-wimey stuff would happen like the Reapers.

He needs to die, he needs to send Rory, River, Amy and his younger self on that mission into the past (otherwise why invite Canton, he could have came prepared with his own fuel or mention the moon landing) and then have all the events with the Silence (the aliens, and the group) and River take place.

It's possible they may just pawn it off as his Flesh clone being the one killed off.

4thDoctor
September 20th, 2011, 04:24 AM
I kind of wondered if the future Doctor's TARDIS might have been his car , perhaps at some point he repaired the chameleon circuit.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/Connell1967/The-Impossible-Astronaut-Cast-Promos-6.jpg

Alan
September 20th, 2011, 05:55 AM
I kind of wondered if the future Doctor's TARDIS might have been his car , perhaps at some point he repaired the chameleon circuit.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/Connell1967/The-Impossible-Astronaut-Cast-Promos-6.jpg

I made that very same suggestion many posts back on The Impossible Astronaut thread. I think that Mr. Moffat has said that the car has some kind of significance but he never elaborated any further than that.

Teddybrown
September 20th, 2011, 06:22 AM
I made that very same suggestion many posts back on The Impossible Astronaut thread. I think that Mr. Moffat has said that the car has some kind of significance but he never elaborated any further than that.

Whos the guy in the background, to the left of the car, is it supposed to be Canton or a Silence?

Alan
September 20th, 2011, 06:32 AM
Whos the guy in the background, to the left of the car, is it supposed to be Canton or a Silence?

Dunno. But whoever it is, he was hiding and watching the whole thing whilst the Doctor was talking to the Astronaut. It even looked to me like whoever it was lay down on the ground as well. It could be someone we haven't met yet. A future companion? A new enemy?

To quote the Doctor: "Time will tell. It always does."

4thDoctor
September 20th, 2011, 06:37 AM
It might even be the flesh Doctor.

Blencathra
September 20th, 2011, 06:51 AM
I stole this from someone a wee while ago. :)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3078/5755849409_420cf1f453_o.jpg

4thDoctor
September 20th, 2011, 06:55 AM
Do you know what that reminds me of? Do you remember "The Watcher" who appeared just before the 4th Doctor regenerated into the 5th?

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/Connell1967/80919052752244878.jpg

Alan
September 20th, 2011, 11:01 AM
Do you know what that reminds me of? Do you remember "The Watcher" who appeared just before the 4th Doctor regenerated into the 5th?

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/Connell1967/80919052752244878.jpg

It's funny you should mention that because on The Impossible Astronaut thread I said that I thought that the Doctor's discussion and gesturing to the Astronaut out of earshot of Amy, Rory, and River was similar to the Doctor's discussion with the Watcher out of earshot of Adric in Logopolis. I don't think that person in the background on that beach in Utah is another Watcher entity though.

4thDoctor
September 20th, 2011, 12:15 PM
LOL! I need to go read that Impossible Astronaut thread Alan, I keep having your old ideas. Ah well, great minds as they say.

Nth Chevron
September 20th, 2011, 01:59 PM
Interestingly enough, the shape of the shadow's body suggest its a Silent, abnormally long arms in relation to its body, the only thing that doesnt match is the headsize, the size of the head is ALOT smaller than the bulbous Silent heads.

The fact they are out of sight also might prove to be some link behind the supposed other person hiding behind the Sarcophagus in The Big Bang.

N.C

Alan
September 20th, 2011, 02:02 PM
LOL! I need to go read that Impossible Astronaut thread Alan, I keep having your old ideas. Ah well, great minds as they say.

Heehee. Great minds indeed. :)

Coco Pops
September 20th, 2011, 06:44 PM
If the red car is the TARDIS how do they access other rooms?

4thDoctor
September 20th, 2011, 06:47 PM
The same way they would with a police box.

Coco Pops
September 20th, 2011, 07:02 PM
The same way they would with a police box.

How? the glove box?

4thDoctor
September 20th, 2011, 07:03 PM
Not at all, once you passed the threshold you would be in the TARDIS control room, it wouldn't be like a car on the inside.

4thDoctor
September 20th, 2011, 07:09 PM
For example, if you stood outside and looked through the windows or the windshield you would see what appeared to be the interior of a car but if you open the door and look in you would see the TARDIS control room.

Coco Pops
September 20th, 2011, 08:36 PM
Not at all, once you passed the threshold you would be in the TARDIS control room, it wouldn't be like a car on the inside.

But didn't we see him driving it ?

Cold Fuzz
September 20th, 2011, 09:33 PM
The problem isn't eliminating The Doctor's death, it's eliminating his death but keeping all the events of season 6 intact otherwise it would rip a hole in the time/space continuum and all that bad timey-wimey stuff would happen like the Reapers.

He needs to die, he needs to send Rory, River, Amy and his younger self on that mission into the past (otherwise why invite Canton, he could have came prepared with his own fuel or mention the moon landing) and then have all the events with the Silence (the aliens, and the group) and River take place.

It's possible they may just pawn it off as his Flesh clone being the one killed off.

I'm also inclined to think that it'll be his Flesh clone getting scragged at Lake Silencio. After all, it'd be an interesting twist if he the Doctor was able to fool Kovarian in the same way she fooled him.

Pharaoh Atem
September 20th, 2011, 09:54 PM
this ep was awesome

Quizziard
September 20th, 2011, 09:56 PM
Different doors doesn't necessarily mean it's a different house.
The railings/hedge are also different... I know, still doesn't mean...

Quizziard
September 20th, 2011, 10:08 PM
I stole this from someone a wee while ago. :)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3078/5755849409_420cf1f453_o.jpg

More interestingly, where is the wooden box/cabin in the long-shot when Canton arrives:
31981

morbosfist
September 20th, 2011, 10:20 PM
Canton's up on a hill. The lifeguard cabin is out of the shot.

4thDoctor
September 21st, 2011, 01:21 AM
But didn't we see him driving it ?
No, he was just laying on the hood.

Nth Chevron
September 21st, 2011, 08:10 AM
He had to be driving it because Cantons truck arrived during the picnic and we heard to car door close

N.C

4thDoctor
September 21st, 2011, 08:18 AM
That was the sound of Canton's truck door closing, the Doctor, Rory, Amy & River were sitting on the blanket by the lake.

Nth Chevron
September 21st, 2011, 02:03 PM
Ignore my last, i just re-read and had the wrong car lol

My Bad :P

N.C

Zarius
September 22nd, 2011, 05:45 AM
"The Stage is set"

A phrase that jumps to mind once the black roll son this episode.

I could've sworn after the minotaurs either warning of an impending Omega's return, or the Doctors description

Omega is NOT returning.

Alan
September 22nd, 2011, 06:07 AM
Omega is NOT returning.

How do you know that? He may or may not return this series but there's nothing to stop him returning in a future series. The 50th anniversary is edging ever closer, ya know. In the season leading up to the 20th anniversary movie The Five Doctors, old enemies and old friends were brought back. For the 2013 celebrations there's now 50-years worth of old enemies and old friends to bring back.

What I'm saying is...don't discount ANYTHING. The space and time dimensions are vast and endless and anything can happen and anyone can return.

Coco Pops
September 22nd, 2011, 07:36 AM
Here's a thought..

What if the Doctor we've been watching all series is a ganger? The real Doctor is in some harness somewhere controlling the whole show.

Teddybrown
September 22nd, 2011, 10:56 AM
Here's a thought..

What if the Doctor we've been watching all series is a ganger? The real Doctor is in some harness somewhere controlling the whole show.

Thats... clever... lol
Nice idea...

Flyboy
September 22nd, 2011, 11:10 AM
Here's a thought..

What if the Doctor we've been watching all series is a ganger? The real Doctor is in some harness somewhere controlling the whole show.

Disturbingly obvious. If that's what Moffat has planned, I'll be very dissapointed.

4thDoctor
September 22nd, 2011, 03:31 PM
I'm wondering if there is a specific reason that the Doctor wears the long overcoat in some episodes and the tweed jacket in others?

P-90_177
September 22nd, 2011, 03:55 PM
I'm wondering if there is a specific reason that the Doctor wears the long overcoat in some episodes and the tweed jacket in others?

Because he goes some places that are a little bit chillier than others? :P

Alan
September 22nd, 2011, 04:00 PM
I'm wondering if there is a specific reason that the Doctor wears the long overcoat in some episodes and the tweed jacket in others?

I don't think so. I think it is just a variant look just like the blue suit he wore in his tenth incarnation, the different coloured T-shirts he wore in his ninth incarnation, the burgundy coat and scarf he wore in his fourth incarnation, and the many different velvet jackets and frilly shirts he wore in his third incarnation. :)

4thDoctor
September 22nd, 2011, 05:16 PM
I hope that you are right, I wasn't fond of the thought of one of them being the flesh Doctor.

Alan
September 22nd, 2011, 05:34 PM
I hope that you are right, I wasn't fond of the thought of one of them being the flesh Doctor.

We can only wait and see. But if we have been watching the Flesh Doctor, then I don't mind because it is still the Doctor controlling him just as Flesh Amy was controlled by Amy.

The worst scare I did have regarding the Doctor's identity was in Let's Kill Hitler. When the Doctor died and River began another regeneration and looking intensely at the Doctor, I began to fear that maybe the Doctor we'd be watching from that point onwards was just going to be River in a new incarnation that looked like the Doctor. I was so relieved that all River did was pass on her life force and her remaining regenerations (however many of those she had) to him.

Pharaoh Hamenthotep
September 23rd, 2011, 12:33 PM
Well they do have to come back at some point because the Doctor that left them behind on Earth has to age, invite past versions of Amy and Rory to meet him in Utah, and let them witness his death at the hands of the Astronaut. Whether they will be companions again though is another thing all together.

Or future versions. He might have left them at the house they were in at the beginning of the season... waiting to hear from him again... :weiranime42:

4thDoctor
September 23rd, 2011, 01:10 PM
I really don't even see how River has any regenerations at all. They always hinted that Time Lords were given regeneration cycles after graduation from the Academy when they actually became Time Lords, as we know from "The Invasion of Time" not all Gallifreyans are Time Lords, that must be earned.

Wolf_Man
September 23rd, 2011, 01:54 PM
Thats... clever... lol
Nice idea...

Did anyone notice at the beginning of this episode the doctor took a big bite of an apple? Didn't we learn in 11's first episode he hates apples? I'm thinking this is a flesh Doctor.

SaberBlade
September 23rd, 2011, 02:11 PM
I really don't even see how River has any regenerations at all. They always hinted that Time Lords were given regeneration cycles after graduation from the Academy when they actually became Time Lords, as we know from "The Invasion of Time" not all Gallifreyans are Time Lords, that must be earned.

It's also stupid that she'd conveniently give up all her regenerations at once. When 10th underwent his first regeneration and put all that energy to his hand, it didn't use up all his regenerations and he used just enough to heal himself. She fully regenerated and healed several gunshot wounds. The problem with this season is it's just better to go for the cool factor and don't try explaining it.

Coco Pops
September 23rd, 2011, 03:26 PM
It's also stupid that she'd conveniently give up all her regenerations at once. When 10th underwent his first regeneration and put all that energy to his hand, it didn't use up all his regenerations and he used just enough to heal himself. She fully regenerated and healed several gunshot wounds. The problem with this season is it's just better to go for the cool factor and don't try explaining it.

Here's an observation I made.

During the RTD phase of Doctor Who they established rules, and pretty much that there are "fixed points" in time that can't be altered but in Moffat's run the theme seems to be "time can be rewritten"

Make of that whatever you will.

Alan
September 23rd, 2011, 03:37 PM
Or future versions. He might have left them at the house they were in at the beginning of the season... waiting to hear from him again... :weiranime42:


Amy and Rory part company with the Doctor aged 908 (between A Christmas Carol and The Impossible Astronaut).


The Doctor (aged 1,103) invites Amy and Rory to Utah and is killed by an Astronaut (The Impossible Astronaut).


Amy and Rory rejoin the Doctor (aged 909) on-board the TARDIS (The Impossible Astronaut).


The Doctor leaves Amy and Rory at Demon's Run (A Good Man Goes To War).


Amy and Rory rejoin the Doctor in a field in Leadworth (Let's Kill Hitler).


The Doctor leaves Amy and Rory back on Earth. He is travelling alone (The God Complex).


The Doctor has 194-years worth of adventures between The God Complex and his death in Utah in The Impossible Astronaut.


The Doctor, now aged 1,103, invites Rory and Amy to meet with him in Utah and he is killed. He has also invited a past version of himself aged 909 and Rory and Amy join him in his travels (The Impossible Astronaut).




I really don't even see how River has any regenerations at all. They always hinted that Time Lords were given regeneration cycles after graduation from the Academy when they actually became Time Lords, as we know from "The Invasion of Time" not all Gallifreyans are Time Lords, that must be earned.

Do you not think it is possibly that with the Time War going on, Time Lords would be handing out regeneration cycles to Gallifreyans for their war effort. Hell, even K-9 Mk. I got a regeneration unit installed in him. They resurrected the Master and gave him a new regeneration cycle for the Time War so for River to have a regeneration cycle just because she was conceived within the TARDIS travelling within the space/time vortex isn't too much of a reach to make.


It's also stupid that she'd conveniently give up all her regenerations at once. When 10th underwent his first regeneration and put all that energy to his hand, it didn't use up all his regenerations and he used just enough to heal himself. She fully regenerated and healed several gunshot wounds. The problem with this season is it's just better to go for the cool factor and don't try explaining it.

To heal himself, yes. But actually bringing someone back from the dead obviously requires more than just excessive regeneration energy.

As for the "problem" as you call it...explanations don't need to be in your face you know. Just a bit of common sense and some call back to past examples of regeneration as you have done are all that's needed.

P-90_177
September 23rd, 2011, 03:39 PM
It's also stupid that she'd conveniently give up all her regenerations at once. When 10th underwent his first regeneration and put all that energy to his hand, it didn't use up all his regenerations and he used just enough to heal himself. She fully regenerated and healed several gunshot wounds. The problem with this season is it's just better to go for the cool factor and don't try explaining it.

As they explained in the episode, the posion The Doctor had blocked is regenerations. River had to use up all her regenerations to break through the block.

4thDoctor
September 23rd, 2011, 05:33 PM
Which is weird, because you would think that doing so would have caused the Doctor to regenerate.

Quizziard
September 23rd, 2011, 10:06 PM
The Doctor, now aged 1,103
Just thought of something: how do we know the Doctor's age at Lake Silencio, because he "accidentally" mentioned it. Rule #1 folks, rule #1.

Cold Fuzz
September 23rd, 2011, 11:05 PM
Just thought of something: how do we know the Doctor's age at Lake Silencio, because he "accidentally" mentioned it. Rule #1 folks, rule #1.

Very good point. It's also possible that he wanted them to know how old he really is as a hint about what's going on. I'm sure the 1103-year-old Doctor has a plan so he wasn't too keen on revealing too much information to Amy & Rory so that he wouldn't unravel events.

4thDoctor
September 24th, 2011, 04:38 AM
Of course he's lying about his own age, the Doctor has no idea how old he truly is, he was claiming to be 900+ years old back in his 6th incarnation.

Coco Pops
September 24th, 2011, 05:19 AM
Of course he's lying about his own age, the Doctor has no idea how old he truly is, he was claiming to be 900+ years old back in his 6th incarnation.

How can he not know how old he is?

Alan
September 24th, 2011, 05:32 AM
How can he not know how old he is?

He's lost count.

4thDoctor
September 24th, 2011, 06:34 AM
Exactly, when you have lived hundreds if not thousands of years and spent centuries traveling through time it wouldn't be too hard to lose count.

SaberBlade
September 24th, 2011, 06:44 AM
Which is weird, because you would think that doing so would have caused the Doctor to regenerate.

You'd think that, but why bother keeping to something so basic as all that regeneration energy causing a regeneration when they can pointless strip River of all her future regenerations. What makes it pointless, the fact we see River die in such a method that not even the Doctor would be able to regenerate.

So unless it's used as a future plot point (giving Doctor more regenerations, or used to explain his Lake Silencio survival) then it's just unnecessary drama.


As they explained in the episode, the posion The Doctor had blocked is regenerations. River had to use up all her regenerations to break through the block.

I don't remember that being mentioned at all.



As for the "problem" as you call it...explanations don't need to be in your face you know. Just a bit of common sense and some call back to past examples of regeneration as you have done are all that's needed.

I know everything doesn't need to explained right off the bat but I can't help feel that explanations are going to be lost this season because it just seems to cooler to just do stuff like the TARDIS exploding and not explaining why. I know there is a few episodes left so I do hope for some sense of closure.


Of course he's lying about his own age, the Doctor has no idea how old he truly is, he was claiming to be 900+ years old back in his 6th incarnation.

Seventh was writing in a journal at the start of the Doctor Who Movie which was dated 900 years. So unless it was a brand new journal starting at year 900 and the Doctor has went through 5 regenerations (including the one used to create his hand copy) within a 9 year period, it's unlikely he's that young.

4thDoctor
September 24th, 2011, 08:27 AM
Well, we know that each of his bodies can live for hundreds of years, and that his original body "died" of old age so it stands to reason that he is much, much older than 900 years of age.

Sealurk
September 24th, 2011, 09:11 AM
He's lost count.

Remembering your age gets tricky even for some humans later in life, and even if the Doctor was nine hundred years old without being a time traveller he could be forgiven for getting the decade or even century of his age wrong. Now throw in that since he is a time traveller, he has to count every day he personally experiences because he can't exactly rely on the date or even time of wherever he's landed this week - and at nine hundred that is over three hundred thousand days.

Coco Pops
September 24th, 2011, 09:43 AM
Can I be honest without getting abused?

I thought this was a good episode, but could have been a whole lot better...

I stand by what my thoughts are on what the Doctor saw in his room. It was his alter ego the Valeyard, his darker self.

Alan
September 24th, 2011, 10:45 AM
Remembering your age gets tricky even for some humans later in life, and even if the Doctor was nine hundred years old without being a time traveller he could be forgiven for getting the decade or even century of his age wrong. Now throw in that since he is a time traveller, he has to count every day he personally experiences because he can't exactly rely on the date or even time of wherever he's landed this week - and at nine hundred that is over three hundred thousand days.

Yep. Especially with the Doctor having such a chaotic life and a lot more things to worry about (and no Romana travelling with him to remind him of his age) it's bound to get so bad he's gonna be 900 years old...again.

Teddybrown
September 24th, 2011, 11:08 AM
I just had a thought about a doppelganger Doctor.
Would it have regenerations?

P-90_177
September 24th, 2011, 11:12 AM
Can I be honest without getting abused?

I thought this was a good episode, but could have been a whole lot better...

I stand by what my thoughts are on what the Doctor saw in his room. It was his alter ego the Valeyard, his darker self.

I doubt it would be the Valeyard,

The rooms were suposed to bring out everyones fears by breaking apart the thing they have the most faith in.
It isn't himself that the Doctor has the most faith in though. It's the TARDIS. I think the room showed him the TARDIS letting him down in some way. Or even being the cause of Universal destruction (that would certainly explain the cloister bell)

Quizziard
September 24th, 2011, 12:33 PM
It isn't himself that the Doctor has the most faith in though. It's the TARDIS.
Having re-watched this episode today, this is one factor I'm surprised more people haven't raised - if the Doctor has a room it's because he has a "faith" on which to rely when his fear is presented. Now I know we deliberately weren't shown the subject of his fear, but did they elucidate what his faith is in?

Alan
September 24th, 2011, 12:40 PM
Having re-watched this episode today, this is one factor I'm surprised more people haven't raised - if the Doctor has a room it's because he has a "faith" on which to rely when his fear is presented. Now I know we deliberately weren't shown the subject of his fear, but did they elucidate what his faith is in?

In The Curse of Fenric, whilst under attack by the vampire-like Haemovores that can only be driven off by faith, the Doctor recited the names of his companions. His faith is in them.

P-90_177
September 24th, 2011, 01:03 PM
In The Curse of Fenric, whilst under attack by the vampire-like Haemovores that can only be driven off by faith, the Doctor recited the names of his companions. His faith is in them.

He also always has faith in his companions. Though his companions come and go. Hence why I believe it was the TARDIS in this particular case.

Coco Pops
September 24th, 2011, 08:17 PM
He also always has faith in his companions. Though his companions come and go. Hence why I believe it was the TARDIS in this particular case.

But how does old "sexy" let him down I wonder?

On another forum someone mentioned he saw Donna, his guilt, and what he had done to her... As they really had become true friends and then he had to take all that away from her, and it haunts him... I've read fan stuff saying why didn't he use the chameleon arch to make her a time lady and then she could keep her memories..

P-90_177
September 25th, 2011, 07:20 PM
But how does old "sexy" let him down I wonder?

On another forum someone mentioned he saw Donna, his guilt, and what he had done to her... As they really had become true friends and then he had to take all that away from her, and it haunts him... I've read fan stuff saying why didn't he use the chameleon arch to make her a time lady and then she could keep her memories..

Well it doesn't matter. It's his worst fear, it doesn't have to come true. :P

The Flyattractor
September 26th, 2011, 07:45 PM
I would think the thing he saw in the room would be River.


Which IMO will be a kind of a let down.

4thDoctor
September 26th, 2011, 07:50 PM
I don't think so, it's not as if the Doctor fears death. If he did he would never have left Gallifrey, it was safe there.

jameshawking
October 2nd, 2011, 10:46 PM
I was reading something and it popped into my head as possibly true.


Would it make more sense for this episode, chronologically, to be between The Pandorica and TIA?

For one, it's currently after the Girl who Waited, which shifts character importance back onto the Doctor after immediately doing the opposite in the previous episode.

Also, it leaves them with an apartment and a car, and they have a flat in TIA, and in WoRS they have an actual house, complete with yard and what not.

Thoughts?

Coco Pops
October 3rd, 2011, 12:16 AM
i was reading something and it popped into my head as possibly true.


Would it make more sense for this episode, chronologically, to be between the pandorica and tia?

For one, it's currently after the girl who waited, which shifts character importance back onto the doctor after immediately doing the opposite in the previous episode.

Also, it leaves them with an apartment and a car, and they have a flat in tia, and in wors they have an actual house, complete with yard and what not.

Thoughts?


wors???????

jameshawking
October 3rd, 2011, 07:15 AM
wors???????Wedding of River Song

Coco Pops
October 3rd, 2011, 07:21 AM
Wedding of River Song

But of course "slaps head"

Cold Fuzz
November 13th, 2011, 02:09 AM
I just re-watched this episode recently. Though they were only an illusion and a cameo, I did like seeing the Weeping Angels again. :D I also loved how their musical theme (all that heavy, fast percussion from "The Time of Angels" and other episodes) was reprised when they made their brief appearance.

maneth
June 28th, 2013, 08:54 AM
Hmmm... Another so-so episode for me. Sigh.

Brother Freyr
June 29th, 2013, 08:52 PM
Hmmm... Another so-so episode for me. Sigh.

I agree with the so-so sentiment, but the climax is an important turning point in Amy and the Doctor's relationship. So there's that at least.

maneth
June 30th, 2013, 05:49 AM
That's true, although IMO not enough to save the ep...

MrEd1177
July 13th, 2013, 12:40 PM
has anyone in here read Lungbarrow? The Minotaur looks remarkably similar to the Dr's Tutor who he left behind on Gallifrey when he was exiled from his house. I know many people believe that books aren't canon but Mofat has borrowed from many of the next gen books already with great effect... and the cryptic quote was surely foreshadowing as were the Ood and others as we neared the end of Tennants era.