PDA

View Full Version : The Girl Who Waited (3210)



GateWorld
April 18th, 2011, 07:32 AM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s6/the-girl-who-waited/" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/thegirlwhowaited1-160x120.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">DOCTOR WHO - SERIES 32</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s6/the-girl-who-waited/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">THE GIRL WHO WAITED</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 3210 (610)</FONT>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0;">Rory and the Doctor try to rescue Amy after she is trapped in a quarantine facility where time passes more quickly, only to encounter her embittered future self.</DIV>
<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s6/the-girl-who-waited/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Sealurk
September 10th, 2011, 12:01 PM
So then:

Planet of the coffee shops
"Ah, that'll be the small act of vandalism alarm."
Did she just say disneyland clom?
"Eyes front soldier"
"Sit down Rory"
Karen's prosthetic was quite good.
Wait, she made her own sonic screwdriver probe?
I quite liked it when Rory does the "look me in the face and say it now" bit.
"So basically if you're Amy then."
No, not the karaoke bar!

Overall, pretty damn enjoyable and a definite improvement on last week's episode.

Whoa, on Doctor Who Confidential did I just see Arthur Darvill with a beard? Awesome! If Arthur can (sort of) pull it off, I must be one step closer to actually being cool... :D

Teddybrown
September 10th, 2011, 12:02 PM
Gahh! Darn it, beaten again! Im losing my touch!

Wow, what an episode!
A curry and Doctor Who, always a nice combo!
Started of a bit slow, but picked up pace quickly and that ending was brilliant acting!
Was strange seeing an older Amy, especially one that hated the Doctor
Anyone catch the line the Tenth Doctor used to use?
Also, wow, the Doctor was a bit harsh in this one, but you can understand why he had to do it. Use old Amy and promise her freedom to get young Amy back, then shut the door literally in her face!
That showed a slightly different side to the Doctor, but you can understand why he did it.
Amazing performances from Karen and Arthur tonight, and cant wait for next week!

Next week looks like its going to be an awesome episode!

pbellosom
September 10th, 2011, 12:17 PM
Well that was heartbreaking. Definitely the single dickish thing the Doctor has done since the show returned. Wow. People keep forgetting Rule #1.

I'm wondering, given that we now know of a contagious disease that kills people with two hearts whether the Doctor's encounter with the space man on the lake is part of a Dumbledore gambit if he's dying anyway...

Draygon
September 10th, 2011, 12:18 PM
Totally not near sobbing at the end... its my blasted cold, why won't you believe me?!

*ahem* Anyway...

I thought this was a really good episode and some very stellar performances all round. Old Amy was defiantly very bitter towards the Doctor and understandably really! Also shows that travelling with the Doctor seems to make you much more capable to adapt to any situation :P Poor lonely Amy, with only a robot named after her husband for company.

The Doctor.... owch! Defiantly showing a different side to him. And Rory's line to him when he shut the door in Old Amy's face and told Rory to choose, that stung. Another reminder that the Doctor isn't always the nice guy we like to think he is.

On a lighter topic, Amy and the Macarania :P

EDIT: Another thing, the cinematography! Fabulous for this episode, and combined with Murry Gold's as always lovely score made it even more powerful.

Sealurk
September 10th, 2011, 12:32 PM
Watching Karen "driving" on Confidential makes me feel a lot better about not being able to drive.

Definitely enjoyed this episode, looking forward to the inevitable second viewing (which Night Terrors has not yet earned). Quite tragically touching as well as humorous, which is normally confined to Moffatt episodes, so that was nice.

stargatefan234
September 10th, 2011, 01:04 PM
Great episode, much MUCH better than last weeks

knowles2
September 10th, 2011, 01:08 PM
This was okay if you are able to ignore the humongous potholes with in the story or perhaps I missed the explanation bit about why the virus would not kill someone in the other time stream with in a day of that time stream. The victims of the plague look completely human so would not the virus infect Rory and Amy as well, and why would medicine kill them. Either I missed the explanations or they did not brother with them.

Then there is the lack of emotional impact this episode could really have had by showing us the victims of the plague and there lives, it would have been even better if Amy had interacted with those victims on some level as well.

An why did Amy choose the most boring zone available.
We also should have seen more of the 36 Amy life.



For the person that ask how was she able to build the sonic probe, the computer taught her about the technology and could teach her anything she needed to know by asking the right question in the right way, and she choose learning how to build sonic probe over exploring alien mountain ranges and Disney warp roller coaster. An the people who built that seem to have advance knowledge of time manipulation an time streams so it not surprising they knew how to construct a sonic probe.

Overall I enjoyed last week episode more than this week.

The only thing I found remotely interesting this was those weird plants in the garden, which we saw on screen for about 2 seconds, but I would taken Disney Warp roller coaster any day of the week or those beautiful mountains.

Also another thing that brothered me was how they completely ignore Mel when talking about there child hood memories, which I also found unbelievable as someone who lost there daughter would not treasure the moments they spent with her in there childhood and would not constantly be searching there memories for any clues that Mel was there daughter.

An have steven got an obsession with Robots enemies, it seem couple of episodes or so there are robots as enemies, they even admitted in confidential that they are starting to run out of original ideas for robots, that because they use them all. An did we really need to have another medical AI as an enemy this season. Even the idea of Amy living her life with Rory or Rory living his life without Amy has been done numerous times already.


I have to give this episode a 4 out 10. An very repetitive episode and first one that have force me ask the question of whether the current writing team got any original ideas left in them at all.

Off to watch the first episode of the 4th season of Tru Blood, and then I will finish of the appalling 4th season of Torchwood to see if last episode can make up for the other 9 episodes.

Lahela
September 10th, 2011, 01:20 PM
OMG, I'm almost in tears! My son has a lump in his throat too. So beautiful. So painful.

Teddybrown
September 10th, 2011, 01:27 PM
This was okay if you are able to ignore the humongous potholes with in the story or perhaps I missed the explanation bit about why the virus would not kill someone in the other time stream with in a day of that time stream. The victims of the plague look completely human so would not the virus infect Rory and Amy as well, and why would medicine kill them. Either I missed the explanations or they did not brother with them.

Then there is the lack of emotional impact this episode could really have had by showing us the victims of the plague and there lives, it would have been even better if Amy had interacted with those victims on some level as well.

An why did Amy choose the most boring zone available.
We also should have seen more of the 36 Amy life.



For the person that ask how was she able to build the sonic probe, the computer taught her about the technology and could teach her anything she needed to know by asking the right question in the right way, and she choose learning how to build sonic probe over exploring alien mountain ranges and Disney warp roller coaster. An the people who built that seem to have advance knowledge of time manipulation an time streams so it not surprising they knew how to construct a sonic probe.

Overall I enjoyed last week episode more than this week.

The only thing I found remotely interesting this was those weird plants in the garden, which we saw on screen for about 2 seconds, but I would taken Disney Warp roller coaster any day of the week or those beautiful mountains.

Also another thing that brothered me was how they completely ignore Mel when talking about there child hood memories, which I also found unbelievable as someone who lost there daughter would not treasure the moments they spent with her in there childhood and would not constantly be searching there memories for any clues that Mel was there daughter.

An have steven got an obsession with Robots enemies, it seem couple of episodes or so there are robots as enemies, they even admitted in confidential that they are starting to run out of original ideas for robots, that because they use them all. An did we really need to have another medical AI as an enemy this season. Even the idea of Amy living her life with Rory or Rory living his life without Amy has been done numerous times already.


I have to give this episode a 4 out 10. An very repetitive episode and first one that have force me ask the question of whether the current writing team got any original ideas left in them at all.

Off to watch the first episode of the 4th season of Tru Blood, and then I will finish of the appalling 4th season of Torchwood to see if last episode can make up for the other 9 episodes.

The reason that Amy and Rory wernt affected is because the disease only affected people with 2 hearts.
And the cure the robots wanted to give Amy was deadly to humans.

The reason robots were used was because the inhabitants of the planet had 2 hearts, so would be been suseptable to the disease if they had been working there, so robots are the best choice as they dont get affected by diseases, thats how I see it.
I dont think Steven has an obsession with robots... theres only been robots once so far in Part 2, the tesselecta was kinda a robot, but not as much as these handbots were...

mparsons1981
September 10th, 2011, 01:38 PM
Possibly one of the best episodes of genre tv ive ever seen. This was sublime.

knowles2
September 10th, 2011, 01:53 PM
The reason that Amy and Rory wernt affected is because the disease only affected people with 2 hearts.
And the cure the robots wanted to give Amy was deadly to humans.

The reason robots were used was because the inhabitants of the planet had 2 hearts, so would be been suseptable to the disease if they had been working there, so robots are the best choice as they dont get affected by diseases, thats how I see it.
I dont think Steven has an obsession with robots... theres only been robots once so far in Part 2, the tesselecta was kinda a robot, but not as much as these handbots were... Glad you was just talking about part 2, now how many robots have appear in part 1, and last season.

An I did not question the use of the robots, I just question the amount of robots that have shown up in Doctor Who lately which seems a lot, every other episode in part 2.

Teddybrown
September 10th, 2011, 01:57 PM
Glad you was just talking about part 2, now how many robots have appear in part 1, and last season.

An I did not question the use of the robots, I just question the amount of robots that have shown up in Doctor Who lately which seems a lot, every other episode in part 2.

I dont remember seeing any robots in Part 1?, please correct me if Im wrong.
I personally dont think there have been many robots in this series of Doctor Who...

Blencathra
September 10th, 2011, 02:21 PM
This was a wonderful episode. Wonderful but totally heartbreaking. I was fighting back the tears until older Amy asked the Interface to see "home" & then the floodgates opened. Great acting from Karen Gillan and Arthur Darvill.

Confidential was fun. Arthur swimming with sharks. Frightened of killer whales in the toilet? And then Karen. 35 mph? Go Karen! :D

Edit - Sorry I'm not remembering many robots either. There was the tesselecta. Can't think of any more in either this or last season.

Sealurk
September 10th, 2011, 03:08 PM
On the strength of this episode, I hope we get Tom Macrae writing for Who again. Can't say I considered his previous effort (the Tenth Doctor Cyberman two-parter) to be particularly noteworthy, but then I haven't watched it in a while and it was Series 2 so that may not be a fair point.


Glad you was just talking about part 2, now how many robots have appear in part 1, and last season. An I did not question the use of the robots, I just question the amount of robots that have shown up in Doctor Who lately which seems a lot, every other episode in part 2.

Series 5 and 6 featured enemies and characters, robots in bold, spoilered for length, pedantry and anybody who hasn't seen all preceding 11th Doctor episodes. If I've missed any, please point them out:

Eleventh Hour - Atraxi & Prisoner Zero
Beast Below - Starwhale, Liz Ten, Winders & Smilers (debatable)
Victory of the Daleks - Churchill, Daleks & Professor Edwin Bracewell
Time of Angels - Weeping Angels & Clerics
Flesh and Stone - Weeping Angels & fewer Clerics
Vampires of Venice - Saturnynians (fish vampires) & Venetians
Amy's Choice - Dream Lord & Eknodine
Hungry Earth - Silurians
Cold Blood - Silurians
Vincent and the Doctor - Krafayis
The Lodger - Craig, Sophie, a cat & the pseudo-TARDIS Hologram
The Pandorica Opens - Nestene Duplicates, Daleks, Cyberman, Sontarans etc.
The Big Bang - Stone Dalek
A Christmas Carol - Sky fish, Kazran Sardick
The Impossible Astronaut - The Astronaut, the girl & Silence
Day of the Moon - Silence
Curse of the Black Spot - Hologram Doctor/Nurse/Siren, pirates
The Doctor's Wife - House, Idris, Auntie, Uncle, Nephew
The Rebel Flesh - Gangers (not robots)
The Almost People - Gangers
A Good Man Goes to War - Headless Monks, Clerics, Dorium, Vastra, Strax, Danny Boy, pirates, ganger, River
Let's Kill Hitler - Tesselecta, River, Mels, Antibodies
Night Terrors - Dolls, Tenza
The Girl Who Waited - Hand Bots

I count six instances out of...lots.

Teddybrown
September 10th, 2011, 03:48 PM
On the strength of this episode, I hope we get Tom Macrae writing for Who again. Can't say I considered his previous effort (the Tenth Doctor Cyberman two-parter) to be particularly noteworthy, but then I haven't watched it in a while and it was Series 2 so that may not be a fair point.



Series 5 and 6 featured enemies and characters, robots in bold, spoilered for length, pedantry and anybody who hasn't seen all preceding 11th Doctor episodes. If I've missed any, please point them out:

Eleventh Hour - Atraxi & Prisoner Zero
Beast Below - Starwhale, Liz Ten, Winders & Smilers (debatable)
Victory of the Daleks - Churchill, Daleks & Professor Edwin Bracewell
Time of Angels - Weeping Angels & Clerics
Flesh and Stone - Weeping Angels & fewer Clerics
Vampires of Venice - Saturnynians (fish vampires) & Venetians
Amy's Choice - Dream Lord & Eknodine
Hungry Earth - Silurians
Cold Blood - Silurians
Vincent and the Doctor - Krafayis
The Lodger - Craig, Sophie, a cat & the pseudo-TARDIS Hologram
The Pandorica Opens - Nestene Duplicates, Daleks, Cyberman, Sontarans etc.
The Big Bang - Stone Dalek
A Christmas Carol - Sky fish, Kazran Sardick
The Impossible Astronaut - The Astronaut, the girl & Silence
Day of the Moon - Silence
Curse of the Black Spot - Hologram Doctor/Nurse/Siren, pirates
The Doctor's Wife - House, Idris, Auntie, Uncle, Nephew
The Rebel Flesh - Gangers (not robots)
The Almost People - Gangers
A Good Man Goes to War - Headless Monks, Clerics, Dorium, Vastra, Strax, Danny Boy, pirates, ganger, River
Let's Kill Hitler - Tesselecta, River, Mels, Antibodies
Night Terrors - Dolls, Tenza
The Girl Who Waited - Hand Bots

I count six instances out of...lots.

Nope, I think you have them all there, i was struggling to think of a few of those myself...

morbosfist
September 10th, 2011, 05:07 PM
This was okay if you are able to ignore the humongous potholes with in the story or perhaps I missed the explanation bit about why the virus would not kill someone in the other time stream with in a day of that time stream. The victims of the plague look completely human so would not the virus infect Rory and Amy as well, and why would medicine kill them. Either I missed the explanations or they did not brother with them.Teddybrown covered part of it. The virus only affects the natives or Time Lords, since the physiology is similar. Humans are immune, and consequently medicine that's good for the natives would react lethally with humans. Furthermore, it's made clear that the nature of the time streams prevents the victims within from dying. People age, but they never need food, water, or rest.

Dixie_Vampiress
September 10th, 2011, 07:55 PM
Well, that was pretty good. Totally loved The Doctor in this one! I think this was the best of Eleven I've seen so far. It showed how non-human he really is.
Also, I love Rory. Never admitted it before, but he rocks.

Oh, and best line of episode imo:

"C'mon, it's not rocket science, just quantum physics!"

Such a Doctor thing! :D

aintright
September 10th, 2011, 08:09 PM
okay it is the love to hate ep!!

if i could get my fingers around his "Rule #1" neck!!

and Rory ... my hero above all heroes.

Pond was brilliant ... both of her :D

*head desk*

the angst .... my heart ... *off to pick up the pieces* they are all over the floor i think! :S

teehee!!:jack_new15:

fumblesmcstupid
September 11th, 2011, 02:02 AM
I really don't understand Older Amy's logic. If I had a way to NOT have to live 36 years by myself, thinking that my husband wasn't coming for me, I'd jump on it in an INSTANT.

Karen and Arthur rock and stuff...whu huu!!

Alan
September 11th, 2011, 05:21 AM
I thoroughly enjoyed last nights episode! There was some absolutely outstanding acting coming from Matt, Karen, and Arthur. Again another story which featured a very interesting time travel concept coupled with some great character development and interaction between Team TARDIS and also really very funny and action-packed and emotional! Loved it! :)

mi_guard
September 11th, 2011, 05:48 AM
watched it today, but my DVR did not record from the beginning, so no idea how it started :(

PMN1
September 11th, 2011, 07:22 AM
]


For the person that ask how was she able to build the sonic probe, the computer taught her about the technology and could teach her anything she needed to know by asking the right question in the right way, a

If its that easy to build a sonic probe i'd have thought they would be everywhere.

Galileo_Galilee
September 11th, 2011, 08:54 AM
This episode was hard for me to follow the dialogue.

But 60 year old Amy was pretty miserable.

But being alone for decades will do that to a person.

pbellosom
September 11th, 2011, 09:22 AM
If its that easy to build a sonic probe i'd have thought they would be everywhere.

Sonic devices aren't especially rare in New Who. Just the screwdrivers. And that's only because no-one else looked at a screwdriver and decided it could do with being sonic.

IMO the best lines of the episode where Amy's "Rory is the most beautiful man I've ever met" speach and Rory's "I'm not annoyed you're old, I'm annoyed we didn't grow old together." Both beautiful moments that really show there love.

It's interesting that in Time, Amy seemed far more open to the idea of having a time shifted version of herself hanging out with them.

morbosfist
September 11th, 2011, 01:34 PM
In "Time", time-shifted Amy was only off by a few minutes, instead of several decades of abandonment issues and bitterness.

Matt G
September 11th, 2011, 02:55 PM
Hmmmm...

1. Not that original a concept.

2. Why wouldn't the Handbots or those that built them consider the possibility that aliens could show up there?

3. As peeps have said, why wouldn't old-Amy want to undo 36 years of hell? There's screwups even I've made that I'd undo if I could.

4. Thought old Amy was going to give up her life to get the other two back in the TARDIS. Eventually she did but...

OK ep.

rosey_angel
September 11th, 2011, 03:34 PM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Rory remembers being a centurian and waiting 2000 years for Amy? He mentioned that he has the memories once IIRC and he recalls them at the end of the two parter to save his wife and his baby.

Amy knows that she is in a different time stream and is thus going faster than everyone else and then she waits 36 years running around and hiding and she is very angry and upset and yells a lot....


I know that Rory is a great guy and doesn't blame Amy for anything, and I know that Rory accepted to wait for her, but he doesn't mention that he waited 2000 years to protect her and yet Amy complains for around 30 mintues that she had to wait 36 years. Personally, everything awesome that "old" Amy did was ruined for me because of, well, "old" Amy.


I agree with knowles2 re: the oddity that neither Amy nor Rory remember their daughter in times when it would be necessary for them too. I have never given birth to nor raised a child let alone birthed one and had it taken away from me and abused but I would imagine that would do some serious damage to your life. I know that Doctor Who can't spend a lot of time on the emotional, but I would like a line or two from either Amy or Rory where they are mourning the loss of their child. They each had around a month to get used to the idea of raising their baby and they never got any of that. And before people complain I know that they know she grows up alive but I doubt that would make a difference. But again I don't know.
Parents, if your child was kidnapped and raised by abusive and manipulative people would you be okay with that or would you say "pi$$ off screwing around with time I want to have my baby"?

Sealurk
September 11th, 2011, 03:58 PM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Rory remembers being a centurian and waiting 2000 years for Amy? He mentioned that he has the memories once IIRC and he recalls them at the end of the two parter to save his wife and his baby.

Yep, he definitely has those memories.


Amy knows that she is in a different time stream and is thus going faster than everyone else and then she waits 36 years running around and hiding and she is very angry and upset and yells a lot....

I know that Rory is a great guy and doesn't blame Amy for anything, and I know that Rory accepted to wait for her, but he doesn't mention that he waited 2000 years to protect her and yet Amy complains for around 30 mintues that she had to wait 36 years. Personally, everything awesome that "old" Amy did was ruined for me because of, well, "old" Amy.

Which is precisely why I think Rory is awesome and I don't actually like Amy that much - she seems far too self-interested and arrogant to be truly likeable, unlike most previous companions I can think of. Much as I like the stories, the new Doctor and most of the other characters, I won't be remotely unhappy to see Amy go.


I agree with knowles2 re: the oddity that neither Amy nor Rory remember their daughter in times when it would be necessary for them too. I have never given birth to nor raised a child let alone birthed one and had it taken away from me and abused but I would imagine that would do some serious damage to your life. I know that Doctor Who can't spend a lot of time on the emotional, but I would like a line or two from either Amy or Rory where they are mourning the loss of their child. They each had around a month to get used to the idea of raising their baby and they never got any of that. And before people complain I know that they know she grows up alive but I doubt that would make a difference. But again I don't know.

Parents, if your child was kidnapped and raised by abusive and manipulative people would you be okay with that or would you say "pi$$ off screwing around with time I want to have my baby"?

I agree, it must be horrific in the extreme, and this is one of the few times I think Moffat may have shot himself in the foot plot-wise. If you have just had your baby abducted, I don't think gallavanting around the universe is the right answer. Maybe they are actively trying to find her and it just hasn't been made clear, maybe their new nature as time travellers gives them a degree of comfort, knowing that they may yet find her and get to properly raise her from a baby (though the episodes with Mels and space suit girl suggest otherwise), but still, it does feel a little off.

pbellosom
September 11th, 2011, 04:11 PM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Rory remembers being a centurian and waiting 2000 years for Amy? He mentioned that he has the memories once IIRC and he recalls them at the end of the two parter to save his wife and his baby.

Yeah, but Rory chose to wait and he did it to for a cause. Amy on the other hand was forced to wait, was told they be five minutes and felt abandoned. On top of her already huge massive abandonment issues.


]


I agree with knowles2 re: the oddity that neither Amy nor Rory remember their daughter in times when it would be necessary for them too. I have never given birth to nor raised a child let alone birthed one and had it taken away from me and abused but I would imagine that would do some serious damage to your life. I know that Doctor Who can't spend a lot of time on the emotional, but I would like a line or two from either Amy or Rory where they are mourning the loss of their child. They each had around a month to get used to the idea of raising their baby and they never got any of that. And before people complain I know that they know she grows up alive but I doubt that would make a difference. But again I don't know.
Parents, if your child was kidnapped and raised by abusive and manipulative people would you be okay with that or would you say "pi$$ off screwing around with time I want to have my baby"?

I can justify it by thinking that really they never got time to think of Melody as their child. There wasn't nine months of pregnancy, Amy just woke up and suddenly she was going into labour. Then she had the child at most a day and it was taking away again. Sure on an intellectual level they know she's their child and feel angry and sad about what just happened, but I feel that on an emotional level there was no time to form a bond.
But again this is just speculation, who knows how people feel when you take away their baby when they never knew they were pregnant.

aintright
September 11th, 2011, 09:35 PM
i think "older" Amy didn't want to give up all she had accomplished, overcome, missed (she had lost 36 years with the man she loves on top of losing her daughter and then finding out her daughter is a psycho). That is a lot to triumph over.

Her years would have been tough and I imagine even if you know that there is the time difference. 36YEARS --- it is an eternity to wait even if you have the knowledge.

Besides does anyone truly want to die when you come down to it?

it all ended very conveniently ... the Dr. who had to make the tough choice was a smuck for making Rory make a decision that the Dr. knew he had already made. Why torment the man.

still an awesome ep. one of the best of the season.

teehee!!:jack_new15:

Flyboy
September 11th, 2011, 10:41 PM
On the subject of Melody, now that they KNOW what happened to her, that shortly after her being born she was imprisoned in a space-suit, then regenerated and became Mels and grew up, I don't think there's any POINT them looking for her. It would cause a massive paradox, the ways things are, is the way things have to be...

I thought it was kinda obviously made clear in Let's Kill Hitler that the search was now over...

jameshawking
September 11th, 2011, 11:33 PM
Correction:

No, sorry. Rory does not actually have free access to those memories. He explained it himself when the Doctor asked; the memories are like a door that is something shut and sometimes open. His memory of that time is unreliable at best.

Cold Fuzz
September 12th, 2011, 01:14 AM
When the episode first started I was a little unsure at first. But then we got some absolutely heartbreaking performances with Rory and Amy. When I got to that moment where Rory had to make that awful choice to keep the door shut for the older Amy, it was Niagara Falls in tears for me. To have to do that to the one person you love more than anything... heartbreakingly terrible.

mi_guard
September 12th, 2011, 02:31 AM
Rory: This isn't fair. You're turning me into you.

:(

knowles2
September 12th, 2011, 02:52 AM
On the subject of Melody, now that they KNOW what happened to her, that shortly after her being born she was imprisoned in a space-suit, then regenerated and became Mels and grew up, I don't think there's any POINT them looking for her.

I thought it was kinda obviously made clear in Let's Kill Hitler that the search was now over...

I do not the it as clear as you make out. Especially as we still do not know how that story that the marine spoke about in good men goes tow war fit into Rivers timeline.

It looks to me that marine knew River/Mel as a baby, and we know that the doctor pays a visit to the planet where she was from.
So I suspect at least the doctor will encounter her when she is a baby, whether Amy and Rory will is a different question.

But you lost your baby and then learnt that you grew up with her when you growing up would not you focus on her when remembering those memories. I think I would.

Billz
September 12th, 2011, 06:50 AM
I've just realised that this episode could have been over in 5 minutes.

If Young Amy had simply walked back out into the room where the TARDIS had originally landed, and just waited for a little bit, the Doctor could have simpy gone forward ahead 1 week from when they originally landed (that is how long Young Amy was already waiting in Red Waterfall from her perspective) and got her easily.

But then, we wouldn't have had an awesome episode that dealt with time paradoxes, and the affect that they could have had on the same person at 2 different points in their lives, with different personalities due to how their lives diverged between the 2 points.

Still a hell of a lot better than "Night Terrors" though!

Spimman
September 12th, 2011, 08:10 AM
Wow, this was one of the most emotionally powerful episodes of Doctor Who (and really any show) I've ever seen. Rory agonizing not just because Amy had to go through that, but for what they missed out on plus seeing Amy remember how much she loved him and how much he loved her. The two Amy's talking about Rory. The final moments that Old Amy shared with Rory talking through the TARDIS door *tearjerker* just seemed so genuine.

The ending of Rory saying, "you're turning me into you" was powerful and profound. Making the right choice but at the same time making the hardest choice in the world, welcome to life as The Doctor.

Karen and Arthur have solidified their places (in my book) as the greatest companions I've seen and their acting, along with Matt's and the writing\directing were amazing!

Galileo_Galilee
September 12th, 2011, 10:23 AM
Remember, the Tardis does not take him where he wants to go, it takes him where he needs to go.

But I'm not sure why he needed to be in this place. There was no real lesson for them to be learned.

But when Rory said "You're turning me into you" it reminded me of what Davros said about the Doctor.

He's not a warrior, but he turns people into warriors.

morbosfist
September 12th, 2011, 10:55 AM
It looks to me that marine knew River/Mel as a baby, and we know that the doctor pays a visit to the planet where she was from.
So I suspect at least the doctor will encounter her when she is a baby, whether Amy and Rory will is a different question. That Marine was stationed on the base. She knows Melody's name because it was written on the side of the crib (the one in the med bay). That's it. You're looking much too far into this when the truth is plain to see.

Quizziard
September 12th, 2011, 11:22 AM
I've just realised that this episode could have been over in 5 minutes.
Yup - she could have yelled through the closed door, "Which of the two buttons did you press?"

Anyway, on some of the other random points, if I can remember them:

a) Perhaps Amy doesn't want to so easily give up the 36 years of lonely struggle in a moment of time-line readjustment. I guess she feels considerably frustrated at having to go through it. Notwithstanding her forgetfulness at Rory's far superior (albeit chosen) commitment/sacrifice, it would effectively eliminate her efforts. She was being very selfish.

b) A medicine for one species would not necessarily be harmful to another, especially when 99% of the two physiologies is likely to be the same. But I guess it's convenient it was...

c) I think the pressure to save Melody is reduced but will still take place in a few episode's time...

morbosfist
September 12th, 2011, 11:32 AM
They can't save Melody. Time has already played out. Mels lived her life as a friend of her parents, as a child in an astronaut suit, and so forth. There's no rescuing to be done. They already turned her from the path of a crazy assassin. Any more would break causality.

jameshawking
September 12th, 2011, 01:13 PM
another correction:

GG: the TARDIS doesn't always take him where he wants to go, surely. But it does at some points (even the doctor admits this). It always makes sure he goes where he's needed, but he does get some say in it.

Nth Chevron
September 12th, 2011, 04:09 PM
Did anyone else catch the Doctors line of

"If you know your own fate you can work out how to avoid it"

??

I thought that was a clever little hidden line amongst the emotion of the episode, does this suggest the Doctor knows about Utah?

Or is it a suggestive way of getting Rory/Amy to tell the Doctor about what began in in Episode 1?

N.C

Alan
September 12th, 2011, 06:25 PM
Did anyone else catch the Doctors line of

"If you know your own fate you can work out how to avoid it"

??

I thought that was a clever little hidden line amongst the emotion of the episode, does this suggest the Doctor knows about Utah?

Or is it a suggestive way of getting Rory/Amy to tell the Doctor about what began in in Episode 1?

N.C

The Doctor is well aware of his fate now. In Let's Kill Hitler he got the information downloaded in to the TARDIS and it tells him the where and the when of his death.

Nth Chevron
September 13th, 2011, 07:42 AM
Damn i must've blinked and missed that part.

Still, it could be a foreshadowing of the Doctor giving River spoilers about her fate

N.C

aintright
September 16th, 2011, 04:07 PM
^ don't 'blink' you can never 'blink'


i mean .... doncha know!!


teehee!!:jack_new15:

aintright
September 16th, 2011, 09:36 PM
ok.... braved it enought to watch it again!! *sob*

for the sake of my best bud!!:S


the part where she is talking about comparing one who is instantly beautiful (ie the Dr. - who is evil i say after this ep - evil)

and then the one who becomes beautiful as she comes to know him ... comes to love him .... the good man (rory of course)

i looked across the room at my boy who was only watching to appease me ...

oh my this was such a love story .... so beautifully played out .... the after 36 years and still just to have his touch, see his smile, to hear his voice ....


there was this boy who said he was in a rock band .....

*sigh*

oh my!


teehee!!:jack_new15:

mi_guard
September 17th, 2011, 08:19 AM
"Planet of the Coffee Shops"

:D could be paradise :)

Coco Pops
September 17th, 2011, 06:22 PM
I have a question or two.

How is it possible that the interface could show Amy a picture of Earth? Did Amy give that to the computer? If it knows about Earth then surely it knows that Amy is human and the medicine would be bad for her? Then again all that stuff about the medicine seemed a bit odd.... But yeah how did the computer know what to project for the hologram of Earth if it didn't know about Earth and humans so why not make the robots aware of this to leave Amy alone?

morbosfist
September 17th, 2011, 07:11 PM
I have a question or two.

How is it possible that the interface could show Amy a picture of Earth? Did Amy give that to the computer? If it knows about Earth then surely it knows that Amy is human and the medicine would be bad for her? Then again all that stuff about the medicine seemed a bit odd.... But yeah how did the computer know what to project for the hologram of Earth if it didn't know about Earth and humans so why not make the robots aware of this to leave Amy alone?They have a copy of the Mona Lisa and the planet is described as a sort of cultural melting pot, taking aspects from cultures all over the galaxy. It's a fair bet it has a record of Earth. As for the medicine bit, the handbots were not programmed to distinguish lifeforms. The facility was designed with assumption that no one would ever visit the planet without knowing what was going on.

Coco Pops
September 18th, 2011, 03:18 AM
They have a copy of the Mona Lisa and the planet is described as a sort of cultural melting pot, taking aspects from cultures all over the galaxy. It's a fair bet it has a record of Earth. As for the medicine bit, the handbots were not programmed to distinguish lifeforms. The facility was designed with assumption that no one would ever visit the planet without knowing what was going on.

Then shouldn't the Doctor have known of this or the TARDIS records updated to include this. There must be some kind of universal internet that the TARDIS can update stuff from.

If not it was a poorly designed place and lack of info sent to potential visitors.

pbellosom
September 18th, 2011, 09:26 AM
"Planet of the Coffee Shops"

:D could be paradise :)

I would love that world so much.


They have a copy of the Mona Lisa

But which of the six is it?

P-90_177
September 18th, 2011, 09:31 AM
Then shouldn't the Doctor have known of this or the TARDIS records updated to include this. There must be some kind of universal internet that the TARDIS can update stuff from.

If not it was a poorly designed place and lack of info sent to potential visitors.

As the Doctor told Rory, that's not how he travels.

Pharaoh Atem
September 18th, 2011, 08:48 PM
liked it didn't cry

Coco Pops
September 18th, 2011, 11:11 PM
Wasn't there some pictures of the Doctor and Rory or maybe just The Doctor looking over a small whte tank? I thought that was holding Amy...

morbosfist
September 18th, 2011, 11:16 PM
Wasn't there some pictures of the Doctor and Rory or maybe just The Doctor looking over a small whte tank? I thought that was holding Amy...No, that was the control panel for the temporal stream thingamabob.

Coco Pops
September 19th, 2011, 01:07 AM
No, that was the control panel for the temporal stream thingamabob.

Oh...

rosey_angel
September 22nd, 2011, 06:13 PM
My thought about it is, if I were a parent and had my baby kidnapped I wouldn't care about causality I would just want my baby back. I know they can't do it and it wouldn't really work for the show at all, but I would appreciate just a small moment where either Amy or Rory show that they are sad that they lost the chance to raise their daughter.

As for how long Amy had Melody, it seemed to me that the baby was a lot older than one day before they lost her but that could just be me. I assumed that she was around a month or so old before Amy was rescued.

morbosfist
September 22nd, 2011, 09:39 PM
They've met their daughter as an adult several times already. That's a pretty big hole to tear in causality. They're time travelers now. I think they're willing to accept that they can't save River as a baby, but they've saved her as an adult.

Alan
September 23rd, 2011, 04:05 AM
They've met their daughter as an adult several times already. That's a pretty big hole to tear in causality. They're time travelers now. I think they're willing to accept that they can't save River as a baby, but they've saved her as an adult.

Absolutely! They've saved her future.

Coco Pops
September 23rd, 2011, 06:22 AM
Here's an observation I made.

During the RTD phase of Doctor Who they established rules, and pretty much that there are "fixed points" in time that can't be altered but in Moffat's run the theme seems to be "time can be rewritten"

Make of that whatever you will.

Carter1994
September 23rd, 2011, 06:55 AM
As for how long Amy had Melody, it seemed to me that the baby was a lot older than one day before they lost her but that could just be me. I assumed that she was around a month or so old before Amy was rescued.

It's stated in A Good Man Goes to War that about a month had passed by the time the Doctor, Rory, &co rescued Amy. ;)

wwlh
September 23rd, 2011, 11:08 AM
They can't save Melody. Time has already played out. Mels lived her life as a friend of her parents, as a child in an astronaut suit, and so forth. There's no rescuing to be done. They already turned her from the path of a crazy assassin. Any more would break causality. I'm not so sure... When Amy and Carter were wandering through the creepy abandoned orphanage.. Amy came upon a room..Melody's room, if I'm not mistaken. Pictures of Amy with a baby...and the mobile from above the Doctor's crib.. Somehow..somewhere...somewhen..they must get her back as a baby (I just wish I could figure out how..)

Dusk
October 19th, 2011, 04:51 AM
A really good one this was, and that's annoying because this show has so much inconsistency between episodes that it truly can be a love/hate relationship much of the time. Over the years we've had absolute garbage and then the infinitely sublime, and varying levels in between.

Also glad Karen tried a bit harder to act in this one, and the Doctor took a back seat. But Rory... I must be one of the few who just can't warm to his dopey, inept and naive character. I may be booed off stage for saying it, but some new companions next series would be nice.

P-90_177
October 19th, 2011, 05:52 PM
I'm not so sure... When Amy and Carter were wandering through the creepy abandoned orphanage.. Amy came upon a room..Melody's room, if I'm not mistaken. Pictures of Amy with a baby...and the mobile from above the Doctor's crib.. Somehow..somewhere...somewhen..they must get her back as a baby (I just wish I could figure out how..)

Or they just took a picture of her and Amy when she was born. I mean captive or not, you may still be able to get a picture where you're smiling down happily at your newborn.

Zarius
October 29th, 2011, 09:36 AM
I'm not so sure... When Amy and Carter were wandering through the creepy abandoned orphanage.. Amy came upon a room..Melody's room, if I'm not mistaken. Pictures of Amy with a baby...and the mobile from above the Doctor's crib.. Somehow..somewhere...somewhen..they must get her back as a baby (I just wish I could figure out how..)

They do not get her back. Those photos were taken when Amy was in captivity

maneth
June 26th, 2013, 08:26 PM
Hmmmm... This one was okay even if not spectacular. Mainly because I'm not particularly fond of Amy. The aging was very well done, and my appreciation for Gillan's acting went up about five notches, because she was very believable as a bitter middle-aged woman.