Goa'uld: Victims of genetic memory?

[Elorendil]

So, I had an interesting thought today:

We know that the Jaffa are indoctrinated from birth that the Goa'uld are gods and are therefore victims who should be freed from their oppression.

But the Goa'uld are indoctrinated from conception to believe that they have the right to enslave entire populations and, basically, to be pure evil. Are they not, therefore, also to be seen as victims?

It has been shown that Goa'uld can realise the error of their ways and turn away from them (Egeria, Jolinar, etc.). I find it interesting that in the latter seasons of SG-1, a pretty good amount of time is spent on freeing the Jaffa from their indoctrination and oppression. Yet, in the entire course of the series, how much time is spent on them trying to free the Goa'uld from the oppression and evil of their genetic memory? Pretty much nothing.

Why don't the Tok'ra seek out "converts" as Teal'c and Bra'tac did? Don't their Goa'uld brothers deserve the chance to be confronted with their evil ways and given the chance to convert just like the Jaffa? Perhaps some of them would leave their pretensions at godhood if they were shown a viable option and provided with a way to escape the System Lords. Yes, the System Lords are probably too steeped in their evil ways to ever turn back, but what about their underlings? Some of them could be redeemed. Don't the deserve to be offered a chance to turn away from their evil as much as the Jaffa do?

Thoughts? Insights? As I said, this is just something that wandered through my brain today as I was doing some cleaning. I haven't had time to fully think through it, but thought I would throw it out there and see what you guys think. If there was another topic on this, I apologize, I did try to look for one...

[General Jumper One]

Sounds like an interesting idea, to bad the writers didn't think of it all those years ago.

[kcordloh]

Being indoctrinated to believe something is far different then possessing memories and knowledge you have experienced first hand.

Easy example: two boys, let's say 18, just starting college. They are both virgins, and become players, getting lots of girls, going to parties. Boy 1 just has make out buddies and does not get really drunk often. Boy 2 does everything he can with girls and drinks all the time.

Now lock both guys up for a year. Turn them lose with one deal, they must be loyal to one girl and no more partying. Who has the easier time of it? In my experience, Boy 1 wins everyday. Boy 2 cannot give up his former life, if he can it's incredibly hard for him.

[blueray]

i don't remember the gou'uld's name, but wasn't there one that said they changed, but they betrayed the tok'ra. for the most part they have memories of ruling and have no interest in loosing the power that they feel is theirs to have.

the reason the tok'ra are they way they are is because their parent Egeria was against it. and there for her offspring (the tok'ra) have her memories of being against it.

[garhkal]

Also you can counter indoctrination. Not sure you can do the same with genetic memory.

[Kab]

I think a referral to the episode where Daniel's son showed Daniel what would happen if he gave him the genetic memory of the Goa'Uld would be appropiate.

Edit: I have been corrected! It's not Daniel's son, it's the child of Apophis and Sha're, or Amunet. I like to think of him as D-Man's kid though.

[Elorendil]

I agree that genetic memory is hard to overcome, but it has been shown that it can happen: Egeria and Jolinar both overcame their genetic memories and became Tok'ra. I agree with Kab that the episode with Harsesis showed that just the memories alone are a strong predisposition towards evil, but clearly it is possible to overcome or there would be no Tok'ra (I know the younger Tok'ra have genetic memories against the Goa'uld, but, as I pointed out, Egeria had to turn away from her genetic memories before she could pass on her own version of genetic memories).

Anyway, like I said in my first post, I just think it is interesting that this was never really even explored in the series. I'm not saying it would have been easy to turn the Goa'uld from their evil ways, given their genetic memories, but it still seems to be that they ought to have at least given them the chance, since it is obvious from the Tok'ra rebellion that this can happen. And, given how the numbers of the Tok'ra are shrinking due to attrition, wouldn't this be a good way to add to their numbers? Granted, they would run the risk of infiltration by Goa'uld only pretending to be good, but they already did that with Tanith. Would it be worth the risk to increase their numbers and obtain more up-to-date information?

[SF_and_Coffee]

Actually, all Tok'ra would have the same genetic memory, since all of them are the children (not grandchildren or great-grandchildren) of Egeria herself. The younger ones are simply from later broods that she spawned.

[Elorendil]

Actually, some of the Tok'ra are Goa'uld who changed sides (such as Jolinar). Most, as you said, are Egeria's children and therefore carry her genetic memory, but not all. And, Egeria herself chose to see past her genetic memory and founded the Tok'ra rebellion.

[garhkal]

Absolute power does show there is some major evilness predisposing in the genetic memories...

[SF_and_Coffee]

Actually, some of the Tok'ra are Goa'uld who changed sides (such as Jolinar). Most, as you said, are Egeria's children and therefore carry her genetic memory, but not all. And, Egeria herself chose to see past her genetic memory and founded the Tok'ra rebellion.

I should have been more clear. I was referring only to the ones who were Tok'ra from birth. You sounded like you were suggesting that the younger Tok'ra were descendants farther removed from Egeria and therefore had different genetic memories from hers, and I was pointing out that this is impossible, because (at least in canon) Egeria was the only Tok'ra queen and therefore the only source of genetic memory for any of her children. The later Tok'ra broods wouldn't have any memories from their older siblings, since the older ones didn't spawn them or contribute any genetic material to them. All who were born Tok'ra would have the same genetic memory, which would be Egeria's own.

[thekillman]

Genetic Memory is one of the keys to the Goa'uld's downfall, which IMHO was actually a part of them properly fleshed out.

others were Hubris, the Sarcophagus and the fact that they had gone uncontested, and basically got lazy

[Elorendil]

I should have been more clear. I was referring only to the ones who were Tok'ra from birth. You sounded like you were suggesting that the younger Tok'ra were descendants farther removed from Egeria and therefore had different genetic memories from hers, and I was pointing out that this is impossible, because (at least in canon) Egeria was the only Tok'ra queen and therefore the only source of genetic memory for any of her children. The later Tok'ra broods wouldn't have any memories from their older siblings, since the older ones didn't spawn them or contribute any genetic material to them. All who were born Tok'ra would have the same genetic memory, which would be Egeria's own.

Ah, that wasn't what I was trying to point out, I meant that she clearly made a deliberate choice to pass on her own version of genetic memory, rather than the one she was born with. All her children, therefore would have the memories that she gave them.

[SF_and_Coffee]

Ah, okay. Then we seem to be on the same page.

I wonder whether Egeria perhaps was a very young queen when she decided to go against the tide? Perhaps she had less exposure to the megalomania-inducing effects of the sarcophagus, having had fewer occasions to use it, and then was exposed to something that was sort of a revelatory moment for her? Perhaps there was even some small genetic accident in her own conception that left her more prone to original thinking?

It's fun to speculate.

[Ibn Rushd]

Where do know that Jolinar was not born of Egeria? I thought that was a fanfic idea.