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GoodSmeagol
May 10th, 2011, 07:25 AM
I believe that shield oscillation discussion was simply the best described way shields work I have seen on any sci-fi show/movie.
Never before have the told us how they work, they were just magic shields that protect from everything.
This could also be how Destiny manages to dive into stars, setting shields to certain frequencies to allow for maximum output minimum input.

I appreciated the explanation.

Flibby
May 10th, 2011, 08:12 AM
That's a very good point; I hadn't thought of that.

thekillman
May 10th, 2011, 09:33 AM
the Asgard and Tollan used the same method against the Goauld and Anubis used the same trick against the asgard. it's never been properly explained but hinted at frequently, like The Siege, First Strike, Revelations, Lost City, etc.

baphometaten
May 10th, 2011, 10:54 AM
Shield Modulation has been a staple in Star Trek long before this. They just never explained it in simple lay man terms like they did in this episode. That is one of the things that I love about SG. They try and make the science/Pseudo science at least plausible and understandable. The key word there being "try".

gkyun
May 10th, 2011, 04:20 PM
Shield Modulation has been a staple in Star Trek long before this. They just never explained it in simple lay man terms like they did in this episode. That is one of the things that I love about SG. They try and make the science/Pseudo science at least plausible and understandable. The key word there being "try".

Nah they did explain it in Star Trek alright, albeit indirectly - Star Trek Generations, the Duras sisters wanted to get Enterprise's shield frequency so that they could in turn tune their weapons to get past its shields.

morbosfist
May 10th, 2011, 04:29 PM
Shields in Star Trek work on opposite. In Star Trek, matching frequencies allows whatever's coming in to bypass the shields. Destiny matches the frequency to absorb the incoming fire.

garhkal
May 10th, 2011, 08:01 PM
Shield Modulation has been a staple in Star Trek long before this. They just never explained it in simple lay man terms like they did in this episode. That is one of the things that I love about SG. They try and make the science/Pseudo science at least plausible and understandable. The key word there being "try".

And at least no one in the show tried to be corny and MAKE a reference to trek while they were doing it. I laughed my butt off at all the "Rock paper sizzors" banter..

JoseP927
July 28th, 2011, 08:48 PM
Shields in Star Trek work on opposite. In Star Trek, matching frequencies allows whatever's coming in to bypass the shields. Destiny matches the frequency to absorb the incoming fire.

Not necessarily; two matching frequencies can either add or subtract based on the phase relationships between the two.

thekillman
July 30th, 2011, 04:37 AM
i based a theory off of this, which links everything from how naquahdah is so energetic to how shields work and how energy weapons work. it predicts how cloaks work and how inertialess drives work.


for the entire system to work, i require 2 particles. one is a photon-like energy particle, directly hinted at by Thor (Small Victories), the Kiron. the other is a particle with charge and is affected by Kirons.


the idea is that the Kiron is the carrier of a 5th force. the other i call E5, (E for Exotic and 5 for the 5th force).


an energy weapon has very little to do with plasma or ions, aside from it being both the byproduct and the carrier of a F5 field, created by kirons and E5s being released by fissioning naquahdah.

yes that unleashes a WTF moment. Naquahdah can not exist by nature's rules, the nuclear forces get too weak for such a big atom, plus it unleashes unrealistic amounts of energy. however, there is a particle which i can point at, which can make it happen. the Kiron.

thor describes a Kiron as a "monopolar energy particle". or more precise, describes a Kiron Pathway as a "modulated monopolar energy field". Replicators use it to communicate, and later on the relation between communication and bonding is confirmed by episodes about the Asurans.

such a particle, thus, attracts. now where would this be useful? oh yea, in Naquahdah's nucleus. however, it would be noticeable in Real Life if it worked on every particle. it does not. thus, an exotic particle has to be present in Naquahdah for it to react to Kirons, while regular matter can not. now quantum physics doesn't rule out that such a particle is really a superpositional mess of virtual particles, which could very nicely explain why it only occurs in Naquahdah. well and Neutronium and Trinium. Trinium gets it's superstrenght and superlow density from it, as it's atom would need to have an extraordinarly large electron cloud while still requiring a superpowerful field to keep the atoms together.


now you might think, "this is nice, but how does it explain everything?"

in Common Descent, we see a plasma weapon do practically zero damage against soil, but when it hits the stargate, it cuts clean through with unprecented force. again, those weapons kick Destiny's arse, but against soil it's harmless, even though the lowest possible energy calculations would put those weapons at low MT.


now i can explain WHY. the vast, vast majority of the energy (over 99.999%) is highly advanced, complex and precise harnessing of the F5 field, or Kiron Field, within the nucleus of naquahdah. because, if you can harness that field, and modify it, you can make naquahdah's nucleus practically explode. the bonding energy per nucleon would be very, very low, while the energy per particle of the highly energetic kiron field would mean very energetic particles blasting off.

this would result in insta-fusion of the particles into much lighter, but for nature's principles still very heavy atoms. we get a bunch of E5 particles, and some remaining Kirons. now the beauty of the E5, is that it both follows Electromagnetism and Kiron"ism"
using whatever highly advanced systems 5000+ year advanced races have come up with, the released energy is harnessed in the form of an extraordinarily powerful Kiron/E5 Plasma, which along with waste particles is ejected into one direction. AKA a plasma weapon.


the plasma has little use but to carry the E5 particles and the Field. due to 5000+ years of efficiency, the plasma is pretty harmless. still has the energy of a Daisy Cutter or so, but it's nothing compared to the supernuke it could've been.

now shields are a bit more complex and a whole damn more messy. but it comes down to a complex Kiron Field, capturing and locking E5 particles into a mesh. this is a very crucial aspect. essentially, the particles are captured into a crystalline mesh of E5 particles, creating a semi-solid structure of highly exotic and poorly understood particles. the energy contained within such a structure would be crazy, hence why shields require such a powerful initial boost. the structure, through virtue of Strong Forces and Kiron Forces and Electromagnetic Forces, is kept intact and requires little energy imput (as confirmedn in SGA).

every particle is subject to particle/wave duality by the power of Quantum Physics and Mechanics. the shield is essentially vibrating, the "bonds" if you can call it that, between the E5 particles (not sure about the exact looks of this mesh on the atomic level)are constantly shifting, and when it happens in unison, your shield has a frequency.


an energy weapon induces a foreign kiron/E5 field, which hits the shield and begins to rip it apart. AKA it reduces shield integrity. the E5 likely sticks with and interferes with the shield, the Kirons however can penetrate the shield and cause damage to -yes- Naquahdah-based materials. since naquahdah, trinium and neutronium are building blocks of any advanced technology, it'll always be present within a ship. some form of "induction" likely occurs, and this disrupts ship operation. it's also why a Shield never fails prematurely while the Hyperdrive is first to fall, even though Asgard Ships pump nearly 100% of their energy into the hyperdrive without it ever failing. and the lights always work just fine, even though they're not made to handle even .1% of the Hyperdrive's energy levels.

a ship shakes, but it never really is torn in half or massively damaged on a structural level. i blame Trinium for this, as it's a perfect material for structural applications. the Kirons induct on it and cause the structure to vibrate.


shields can become permeable for Fighters because they emit an EM field, this interacts with the E5 in the shield and disrupts the structure, making it far more like a gas.

energy is partially absorbed by the Shield Generator, while as a byproduct, E5 particles convert some of the energy to EM.

energy weapons, when tuned properly, can do the same and ignore shields. this requires a very advanced understanding of energy weapons, as only the Tollan and Asgard did this, both to the Goauld. the Wraith however, have energy weapons which are more effective against Ancient shields than they are to Asgard Shields, as any energy calculation and comparison will show you.

and on the other end, shields can do the same, although this was never proven until Gauntlet, which was the final piece of the puzzle to me.


this system shows how naquahdah can be fissioned in a, well, shoe box. by correctly utilizing energy weapons technology (although i'd say it's rather developed the other way around) and combining it with shield tech (and i doubt that at this level, there's a difference), you can forcibly cause Naquahdah to fission into iron and similar atoms, generating very little waste and very little harmful radiation. there ARE waste Kirons, as tuning a Naquahdah Generator allows interference with Cloaks, *and here comes the punchline* when set to the right frequency.


since Kirons appear to follow EM analogies, here's another one i already named but didn't explain as well: Induction. remember Beachhead? tune the shield to the right frequency and Phase and there's practically no reason why a Shield Generator can't become a generator. normally it's Energy-> Shield Generator -> shield -> energy absorbtion, but there really is no reason why it can't be done in reverse.

another application? how about conduits? energy can flow through it both as electrons and as Kirons and E5 particles. remember Atlantis leaking what should be teratons of energy? remember the damage? zero to none. a naquahdah plasma conduit would transfer teratons of energy per second, in a for us intangible form of energy. interesting aspect? when it blows, you spill energy but do not destroy your ship. perfect isn't it?

in fact, it's very likely the Replicators made it even better and it likely resulted in their Kiron Pathway technology, making energy weapons a snack to them rather than their worst enemy. and bullets? bullets don't give a damn about some complex 5th force and just go clean through.


Cloaks are like shields, Atlantis proved that much. but why? well i have a semi answer, a very, very, very complex one.

it begins with a new assumtion, but it's again an educated guess and not just wild speculation. how about a subspace/realspace interaction? and how about electing Kirons to be capable of just that? the two react, that much we know. i mean, otherwise we
can't communicate through subspace or enter hyperspace. but how?


it comes down to a Hyperdrive localizing a more than sick amount of Kiron Energy into a more than sick small space. mass, and thus energy, deform space. a Kiron, being Kiron energy (whatever that might be), Electromagnetic Energy (E5 proves that), and Mass in one, would have the unique and strange property of bending both Space (mass) AND Subspace. thus a hyperdrive.

i won't go into it any further as it requires more knowledge than we have and more speculation than i like.

but such a superposition or interaction exists, by virtue of Hyperdrives and Subspace Communication Technology.

if E5 and Kirons can do that, it explains how we can do the unthinkable, like communication more than vast distances nigh-instantly. Subspace has different rules. a particle is sent in superposition. it can not be too stable or otherwise it won't work. but basically a Kiron Burst, placed in Realspace/Subspace superposition (thus occuring in both places at ones), is shot. since Subspace is a whole lot denser apparently than Realspace, the Kirons would hit Subspace Particles (or energy), and thus be "forced" into subspace. they continue their path there. as i said, this isn't permanent. the particles "leak" back, and become detectable. by picking the correct phases and frequencies, you might reasonably predict when and where they drop out en masse, thus creating a Databurst. due to the not-so-precise nature of this, it's detectable when someone sends them, and such bursts can technically be picked up by people in the vicinity.


now cloaks. essentially it's a shield were all particles are in subspace/realspace superposition. here, the state is maintained. EM hits the shield, gets absorbed, a corresponding Kiron is sent by the E5 while maintaining Energy and Momentum, and then hits an E5 in subspace superposition, the process reverses and a Photon has just been bent through the Cloak.

a less complex (but still extraordinarily complex) system is using the same system we have for our cloaks in Real Life, where Metamaterials bend light around them using tiny "hairs" and refraction indices. no clue how it works precisely, but for a Cloak, the Shield becomes this "metamaterial" and bends light and Kirons around it.

shields can not function when cloaked either way, as they would always leak SOME energy and given the similar nature, they'd likely disrupt the cloak and make it useless.

lastly, Inertialess Drives. a very energy-expensive system, but it comes down to using a more primitive shield. it's Newtonian, can't get around that.


the idea is that you expand a shield one direction, disengage it and then re-engage it near your ship in an unexpanded state. this creates Kiron/E5 thrust in that direction.
repeat and you get an engine.


a 5 trillion times more complex way is bending subspace around the ship like a Warpdrive using shield and hyperdrive technology, plus the Kiron's subspace superpositioning. how, no clue. but the other races are 5000, and several million years more advanced than us, so surely THEY figured out how to.