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erotavlas
May 4th, 2011, 05:44 PM
So it looked like the headline of the newspaper they found read 'ATAK!"
Looks like a polish word. Do you think this is mangled english -- like if they strtd drwpng letrs to srtn wrds lyk ths fr nstnc?
Or did the decendants from Novus incorporate other languages into their society?

s09119
May 4th, 2011, 05:49 PM
So it looked like the headline of the newspaper they found read 'ATAK!"
Looks like a polish word. Do you think this is mangled english -- like if they strtd drwpng letrs to srtn wrds lyk ths fr nstnc?
Or did the decendants from Novus incorporate other languages into their society?

I noticed that, too. Thought it was a very cool way to address the language issue; short, not in your face, and gets the point across.

Keeper
May 4th, 2011, 05:58 PM
whatever exactly it is, it's not simple english with missing letters: the civilian guy reading the paper said 'i'm starting to get the gist of this.'

a couple of dropped letters is easy enough to interpret, considering we know the entire civilian crew is supposed to be very intelligent - the two least qualified civilians are eli and chloe, and chloe has a degree. eli is a dropout, but smart; everyone else has years of experience and brains.

Pond Hopper
May 4th, 2011, 06:18 PM
I've been thinking on this too.

The descendants of the destiny crew probably only know English because of the kino recordings, if those weren't around (like in real life 2,000 years ago) they would have lost English as it evolved into another spoken/written language, but since they do have Eli's kino recordings they all know how English sounds but not how it's written (properly at least).

In short, their basis for English is from the Kino recordings and it's written form on Novus is simply broken English.

escyos
May 4th, 2011, 06:25 PM
Atak, Bukkeeping, Tymes, Elektronics.....yea id say the language was a little simplified (maybe only on that colony though)

droid327
May 4th, 2011, 09:17 PM
The store was a "markit" as well

I didnt get that it was supposed to be broken English, or simplified or whatever, but rather just a dialect that evolved after 2000 years. Language is always a fluid thing. Really, if you think about it, its remarkable language preservation that its still recognizeable English at all.

Just think about trying to read English from 600 years ago, let alone 2000....

escyos
May 5th, 2011, 12:32 AM
The store was a "markit" as well

I didnt get that it was supposed to be broken English, or simplified or whatever, but rather just a dialect that evolved after 2000 years. Language is always a fluid thing. Really, if you think about it, its remarkable language preservation that its still recognizeable English at all.

Just think about trying to read English from 600 years ago, let alone 2000....

Something tells me that English would have been well preserved.

Phenom
May 5th, 2011, 02:54 AM
To be brutally honest, the quality of the spelling on GW gives some indication as to what would happen to the English language if a group of humans ever started a colony somewhere.

I am shocked the paper didn't just have a big :mad: across the banner rather than real words, such is the way things are going these days. Bloody kids.

Trinary
May 5th, 2011, 03:59 AM
I ting dey go fo de sauns rader dan de sot fom wods.

I think they go for the sounds rather than the short form words.

Lahela
May 5th, 2011, 04:22 AM
To be brutally honest, the quality of the spelling on GW gives some indication as to what would happen to the English language if a group of humans ever started a colony somewhere.

I am shocked the paper didn't just have a big :mad: across the banner rather than real words, such is the way things are going these days. Bloody kids.

Everybody dancin' :p

Ser Scot A Ellison
May 5th, 2011, 04:41 AM
It's the evolution of English over 2000 years. I'm shocked they can read it. Anyone tried to understand Old English from the text without translation?

thekillman
May 5th, 2011, 05:11 AM
it's possible to read old english. i can do it without text and without much training, it just takes logic and a language skill i posses.

it is likely that the Novans evolved a more phonetic or literal form of english grammar.

attack is, with the least amount of letters to form the same word, most simplified as "atak" since the extra T and the C don't REALLY add much.

similar with markit, and Tymes.

Ser Scot A Ellison
May 5th, 2011, 05:52 AM
killman,

Do you read the Old English phonetically to assist in understanding. I can't read it. Middle English is tough for me too.

Lahela
May 5th, 2011, 09:24 AM
Reading Old or Middle English is a combination of phonetics and a basic understanding of the lettering system. As an EFL teacher, I can assure you that they are actually far easier for a native speaker of English to decipher than the writing system of modern English is for someone who speaks the language but has had no exposure to the spelling.

As a linguist, I can't express how much I love that the people responsible "evolved" written English in the way they did in this ep. It actually conforms to several of the suggestions made by various spelling reformists ("i" for the schwa, "y" for /aI/, getting rid of double letters, loss of "c" before "k"...).

Language geek heaven :D

Commander Zelix
May 5th, 2011, 10:17 AM
It was a very nice touch and acknowledgment of writers to include some small english language differences. Since it should change at least a little bit with time in such situation. But now, with the spread of intercommunication (tv, internet, radio) between people, I'm not sure how fast english will change in the future. The influence of the "standard" form is much stronger now than in the past where english people were somewhat isolated communities.

droid327
May 5th, 2011, 10:54 AM
ya but look at wut txting has dun 2 "standard" splng...

garhkal
May 5th, 2011, 02:18 PM
And at least it wasn't Ebonics!

Save Chloe
May 5th, 2011, 02:32 PM
I can barely make out Middle English. Old English looks like another language to me.

Shylodog
May 5th, 2011, 03:13 PM
And at least it wasn't Ebonics!

Or Snooponics.

Fo shizzle, mah nizzle. :cool:

Phenom
May 5th, 2011, 03:27 PM
Old English is far easier than modern English. In my job from time to time I have to read through transcripts of Facebook and MSN conversations.....you try and decipher that stuff!!!!It is easier converting a Tale of Two Cities to heiroglyphs most of the time.

Aesjos
May 5th, 2011, 05:45 PM
Its just English with a different orthography: ATTACK!

Aesjos
May 5th, 2011, 06:08 PM
It's the evolution of English over 2000 years. I'm shocked they can read it. Anyone tried to understand Old English from the text without translation?

English and Norwegian have had about as much time to separate and they are actually really similar. If they had the benefit of proto-Germanic speaking people writing they'd probably be dialects of one language today.

It is completely plausible that the Novans and their descendants, who had the added affects of not being in contact with other nations speaking totally different languages, and writing right from the start, have something the crew of the Destiny can understand.

Just sound out : "Hvor finne deg roenne bær" and see if you recognise anything.

The grammar in the example I made is probably bad, but the Norwegian and English words are recognisably related: Hvor/where finne/find deg/thee roenne/rowan bær/berries.:daniel:

actuallyliam
May 6th, 2011, 12:45 AM
whatever exactly it is, it's not simple english with missing letters: the civilian guy reading the paper said 'i'm starting to get the gist of this.'

a couple of dropped letters is easy enough to interpret, considering we know the entire civilian crew is supposed to be very intelligent - the two least qualified civilians are eli and chloe, and chloe has a degree. eli is a dropout, but smart; everyone else has years of experience and brains.

Eli might not have the qualifications. But to say he is even close to the same level as Chloe is insulting to the character he is closer to Rush. Even having a better understanding of Mathematics.

escyos
May 6th, 2011, 08:19 AM
Heres some pics of the language:
http://patrickgilmore.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/12.jpg]
http://patrickgilmore.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/22.jpg
http://patrickgilmore.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/32.jpg

Shylodog
May 6th, 2011, 08:54 AM
http://patrickgilmore.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/32.jpg

Ok, now that is awesome! Hello, SG1 Tip-of-the-Hat! :D

Ukko
May 6th, 2011, 09:02 AM
Heres some pics of the language:
http://patrickgilmore.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/12.jpg
http://patrickgilmore.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/22.jpg
http://patrickgilmore.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/32.jpg

The bike ones the best. Some great exampkes.:D Likelee. Erly. Blu. Fownd. Plese.

From the Kontinuum poster it seems they didnt change the names of the weekdays.

Ser Scot A Ellison
May 6th, 2011, 09:31 AM
Interesting that the planet has a 24 hour day, roughly. It would have been cool if the day had been shown to be longer than Earth normal.

thekillman
May 6th, 2011, 12:55 PM
Do you read the Old English phonetically to assist in understanding. I can't read it. Middle English is tough for me too.

i'm sorry. i am not exacly an expert for when it comes to "old engligh" and "middle english" and "intermediate english". i suck at history so i have no clue what the transition periods are.


as to language: i have developed an ability to intra and extrapolate the meaning of sentence. if i had to explain half the words i use in english in my native language, i would be clueless. i know and understand what they mean but i have no clue how to properly translate it.


that's how it went for me with Latin and Ancient Greek too.

Ukko
May 6th, 2011, 01:01 PM
i'm sorry. i am not exacly an expert for when it comes to "old engligh" and "middle english" and "intermediate english". i suck at history so i have no clue what the transition periods are.


as to language: i have developed an ability to intra and extrapolate the meaning of sentence. if i had to explain half the words i use in english in my native language, i would be clueless. i know and understand what they mean but i have no clue how to properly translate it.


that's how it went for me with Latin and Ancient Greek too.

Old English Beowulf. (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/beowulf-oe.html)

Middle English Chaucer. (http://classiclit.about.com/library/bl-etexts/gchaucer/bl-gchau-can-genpro-m.htm)

:D

Shylodog
May 6th, 2011, 01:08 PM
Old English Beowulf. (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/beowulf-oe.html)

Middle English Chaucer. (http://classiclit.about.com/library/bl-etexts/gchaucer/bl-gchau-can-genpro-m.htm)

:D

Bad English (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_English)

escyos
May 6th, 2011, 06:13 PM
Interesting that the planet has a 24 hour day, roughly. It would have been cool if the day had been shown to be longer than Earth normal.

It may have, they may have kept similar times but they are just extended e.g ..11 am, 12 am, 13 am, 14 am, 1 pm, 2 pm...

EDIT: No wait, saw a sign saying 7 days 24 hours.

actuallyliam
May 7th, 2011, 03:45 AM
Heres some pics of the language:
http://patrickgilmore.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/12.jpg]
http://patrickgilmore.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/22.jpg
http://patrickgilmore.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/32.jpg

And Keb is a reference to the planet. Where Oma Desala and the Harsises child were. In SG-1. Think I spelt that second one wrong.

JustAnotherVoice
May 7th, 2011, 03:59 AM
It may have, they may have kept similar times but they are just extended e.g ..11 am, 12 am, 13 am, 14 am, 1 pm, 2 pm...

EDIT: No wait, saw a sign saying 7 days 24 hours.

But there's no rule that says 24hours on the other side of the galaxy had to conform to Earth norm. For all we know, they divided their days into 24 equal divisions that lasted 1.5 "Earth hours". Most of their wrist watches and other time keeping devices would have failed within a year or two, so there's no reason to believe that they didn't just change the length of the Novan hour.

SGSargon
May 7th, 2011, 05:22 AM
Eat iz nat imposibl 4 lenguegiz tu evolv in saci menar, ai min luk at da Internet languedj diz deiz
It is not impossible for a language to evolve in such manner, I mean look at the Internet language these days
I wonder if the Novus language has emoticons :D

DJ2020
January 10th, 2020, 12:13 AM
The evolved spelling wasn't unique to just the world they visited in Blockade. When they were on Novus going through the database, I noticed archives was spelled with k, rather than ch. At least I'm assuming that's what the recurring abbreviation ARK. was.

Xaeden
January 10th, 2020, 05:04 AM
It's the evolution of English over 2000 years. I'm shocked they can read it. Anyone tried to understand Old English from the text without translation?

There was a radical jump from Old English to Middle English because the Normans brought a historic version of French with them when they invaded England in 1066 and made it the official language of the government. English continued to exist as a spoken language, but people weren't writing in English for a prolonged period of time. Languages that do not have written versions change more rapidly than languages that do because they are more susceptible to dialectal speech and outside influences. In the case of English, this means people had no overarching guide to tell them what words should look or sound like after the Norman Conquest, and it means that many French words were incorporated into English, replacing existing words in the process. French words are so prevalent in English today that the French author Alexandre Dumas once proclaimed, English is all French, badly pronounced. Par exemple: Any English word that ends in -ment, comes from French. Hence the French version of "monument" is "monument" (in French, you don't pronounce the "t" and the "e" sounds like an "a"). And that's just the merge de l'iceberg.

There was a smaller, but very noticeable jump between Middle English and Modern English in large part because of the printing press. This led to increasing standardization, and it made written materials affordable to a growing number of people. It also helped foster the spread of new words. Google "words coined by..." Shakespeare, Chaucer, Sir Thomas Moore, John Milton, or Charles Dickens to see examples of words that they introduced into our lexicon.

Schooling was another important factor. In creating modern countries, governments offered increased access to schools as a way to establish a uniform sense of identity. Language was an important part of that as it not only helped to further unify people but also made it easier to conduct business, maintain armies, etc. Think of how important the French language is to French people today as a symbol of their identity. This was manufactured in only the last couple of hundred years by the introduction of public schools, which elevated a standard version of French while suppressing provincial languages (see Occitan as an example) and radically different dialects. Schools similarly worked to create a uniformed standard throughout the British Isles.

English is still changing, but it's now far more established and defined than it was in the past, so the change is far slower. Consequently, the comparison between what English was like 1,000 years ago and what it would be like in the future is not an apt one. English was preserved for the colonists of Novus through video recordings and written language, so changes made to the language would be more measured. Think of the decision to forgo British spellings of some words. This was the product of a few people simply not liking the way the words looked, so they promoted alternate spellings that either made more sense phonetically, or they dropped letters that were thought to be superfluous. Noah Webster helped to popularize many of those alternate spellings (others, he was less successful at getting people to adopt, like "soop" instead of "soup" or "speek" instead of "speak").

In some cases, both the original British and Americanized version of words were considered acceptable as recently as the 20th century and old publications would use them interchangeably. Take "canceled" and "cancelled" as an example. You probably have seen people use both versions quite a bit to this day and may have even been unsure of which to use since most spellchecks don't correct either version. However, in the U.K. "cancelled" is preferred, while "canceled" is now the preferred in the United States. Both versions had been used interchangeably for much of the 20th century and both versions still pop up in print, but "canceled" became the more commonly used version in the 1980s and now many schools teach it as the correct way to spell the word.

In 2,000 years from now, I would very much expect to see more spelling changes like that, the adoption of new slang and foreign words, grammatical changes, and existing words falling out of common usage. I would not, however, expect the disparity between that future version of English to be anywhere near as great as the disparity between Old English and Modern English as long as things keep ticking along like they have been. I would expect even fewer changes from a population of English speakers who remained in isolation for 2,000 years and preserved English in both audio recordings and written forms as there are no outside languages to influence them save for the bits and pieces that the Destiny's dual language speakers passed down. That the major difference is that some people advocated for changing the spelling of certain words to make them more phonetic and their proposed changes were adopted by the general public is extremely reasonable as that's the main way that language has changed in the last 200 years. This period serves as the best model for how English will change in a future where it continues to be well defined and accessible in print.