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Yipikyyaysupremecommanderthor
April 27th, 2011, 08:23 AM
How does a few crewmembers increase to millions thats alot of incest...

im saying that that few cant create two thousand years of generations....


I didnt see any genetic disfigurements or disablitities so im thinking that they decided not to think that one through enough.... its disgusting but other than that it was a pretty good episode...lol i couldnt get the thought of the incest out of my head watching it

jsonitsac
April 27th, 2011, 08:26 AM
Your answer can be found by understanding this concept: Pedigree Collapse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedigree_collapse)

Greenfire32
April 27th, 2011, 08:27 AM
We came from somewhere.

Besides, when you reproduce for survival and not recreation, each family probably had close to two digits worth of kids.

Also, marrying and having kids with 2nd or 3rd cousins is completely acceptable when it comes to genetics. Getting with a 1st cousin is pushing it a little, but still isn't unheard of.

I think I remember one of them saying they had 9 kids and 15 grandchildren. That's not abnormal when you reproduce for survival.

carmencatalina
April 27th, 2011, 08:31 AM
There is a nice long thread on the "Common Descent" discussion on just this topic:

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?80742-Genetic-Diversity

Azriel
April 27th, 2011, 08:32 AM
As stated above, I'd suggest reading up on the numerous threads that are floating around concerning this subject. A lot of them contain some pretty viable theories on how this was possible and I'm pretty sure most of them don't cite incest as a reason.

webxro
April 27th, 2011, 09:06 AM
As stated above, I'd suggest reading up on the numerous threads that are floating around concerning this subject. A lot of them contain some pretty viable theories on how this was possible and I'm pretty sure most of them don't cite incest as a reason.

Yeap people should read them , and then listen to the population genetic teacher or something like that , i heard that there is one around here .

thekillman
April 27th, 2011, 09:11 AM
it's simple proof by result: they survived long enough to develop IVF (the ideal countermeasure to genetic degradation), thus the original gene pool was sufficiently diverse to get that far.

LtColCarter
April 27th, 2011, 09:34 AM
How does a few crewmembers increase to millions thats alot of incest...

im saying that that few cant create two thousand years of generations....


I didnt see any genetic disfigurements or disablitities so im thinking that they decided not to think that one through enough.... its disgusting but other than that it was a pretty good episode...lol i couldnt get the thought of the incest out of my head watching it

Ummm...there were quite a bit more than a "few" people on board destiny.

Ser Scot A Ellison
April 27th, 2011, 10:13 AM
Greenfire,


We came from somewhere.

Besides, when you reproduce for survival and not recreation, each family probably had close to two digits worth of kids.

Also, marrying and having kids with 2nd or 3rd cousins is completely acceptable when it comes to genetics. Getting with a 1st cousin is pushing it a little, but still isn't unheard of.

I think I remember one of them saying they had 9 kids and 15 grandchildren. That's not abnormal when you reproduce for survival.

Charles Darwin's wife was also his first Cousin.

The Destiny
April 27th, 2011, 10:17 AM
Greer and Park alone had 22 kids/grandkids. Varro and James had 7, if I recall correctly. That's an awful lot of kids in an awfully short time. An increase of about 700-800% If they kept going like that for a century or two I have no trouble believing Novus had millions of people.

Remember: 2000 years. That's a long time. In that time the population on Earth went from millions to billions, despite incredibly short lifespans ( 30-40 years if lucky ) for the majority of that period, diseases, wars, starvation, plague etc.

Greenfire32
April 27th, 2011, 10:23 AM
Charles Darwin's wife was also his first Cousin.

Which is why I said,
Getting with a 1st cousin is pushing it a little, but still isn't unheard of.

Ser Scot A Ellison
April 27th, 2011, 10:25 AM
Greenfire,


Which is why I said,

Understood. It was simply an FYI.

Greenfire32
April 27th, 2011, 10:33 AM
Understood. It was simply an FYI.

Oh. I see.

Trinary
April 27th, 2011, 10:34 AM
If I'm not mistaken, there was known 5 couples from the main characters. Assumed there will be another 5 to 7 random couples from the rest of at least 60 survivors. For a dozen couples only and after 2000 years become millions is falling short. It should be a couple of billions at least.

LtColCarter
April 27th, 2011, 10:36 AM
If I'm not mistaken, there was known 5 couples from the main characters. Assumed there will be another 5 to 7 random couples from the rest of at least 60 survivors. For a dozen couples only and after 2000 years become millions is falling short. It should be a couple of billions at least.

Maybe they weren't like rabbits...once there was a good population and genetic diversity...things slowed down.

Greenfire32
April 27th, 2011, 10:39 AM
Maybe they weren't like rabbits...once there was a good population and genetic diversity...things slowed down.

Agreed. Once you reach the point where you no longer need to reproduce for survival, things most likely slowed down and the more "traditional" family started showing up.

Wayston
April 27th, 2011, 10:42 AM
I think it was a bit unfortunate they didn't implement some mass breeding policy. From a communitarian perspective there is no good excuse for first generation fertile females like Wray not reproducing. She should really have taken one for the team.

Again from a communitarian perspective it's very unsetteling to see such discrepancies in reproduction rates, I mean who did the offspring of Greer and Park end up having sex with exactly??

Trinary
April 27th, 2011, 10:49 AM
My guesses is pollution was dictating the human population growth. In fact, it also given similar effect to animals population growth too.

Probably, the same thing happened at Novus.

Greenfire32
April 27th, 2011, 10:50 AM
I think it was a bit unfortunate they didn't implement some mass breeding policy. From a communitarian perspective there is no good excuse for first generation fertile females like Wray not reproducing. She should really have taken one for the team.

Again from a communitarian perspective it's very unsetteling to see such discrepancies in reproduction rates, I mean who did the offspring of Greer and Park end up having sex with exactly??

There was a lot of people with Asian features in Common Descent. I know Eli and Barnes (does anyone know who this is??) had some kids, but I'm more than sure that Wray "did her duty" for the sake of the colony. She did say that she already has a soul mate (on Earth), so we know she's not too interested in hooking up with anyone else, but that doesn't mean she didn't pop out a few for the sake of the colony.

Shylodog
April 27th, 2011, 11:52 AM
There was a lot of people with Asian features in Common Descent. I know Eli and Barnes (does anyone know who this is??) had some kids, but I'm more than sure that Wray "did her duty" for the sake of the colony. She did say that she already has a soul mate (on Earth), so we know she's not too interested in hooking up with anyone else, but that doesn't mean she didn't pop out a few for the sake of the colony.

Park is asian. Wray, to the best of our collective knowledge, did not have any kids. Especially since they didn't show her giving birth as they did with all of the other important cast members. Cuold also attribute to why she outlasted all of the others.

Egle01
April 27th, 2011, 01:08 PM
I know Eli and Barnes (does anyone know who this is??) had some kids, but I'm more than sure that Wray "did her duty" for the sake of the colony.Are you asking who's Barnes? I believe she was first seen in "Pain", and this season at least one time working with the stones.

Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble
April 27th, 2011, 01:15 PM
Go back 30 generations and you will find you have more ancestors than people that where alive at the time.

We are the product of ALOT of Incest.

Shylodog
April 27th, 2011, 09:40 PM
Go back 30 generations and you will find you have more ancestors than people that where alive at the time.

We are the product of ALOT of Incest.

I would argue your point, but seeing as my great grandparents immigrated from Wales, I'd have to agree. That is one eff'ed up language they have that could ONLY come from inbreeding!

JUST KIDDING!!!! :p

Yipikyyaysupremecommanderthor
April 28th, 2011, 07:36 AM
remember their has to be a large enough population to prevent incest and genetic degradation ussually close to 500 for that many generations and last time i checked they're wasnt even close to that on destiny alone so yes everyone of those people on novus could actually call each other cousin

darkthunder84
April 28th, 2011, 07:36 AM
I have two names for the OP (if one chooses to believe such superstitions):

Adam and Eve

We went from 2 people, to a population of BILLIONS.

Surely 70-80 people can achieve a few hundred MILLION? :)

LtColCarter
April 28th, 2011, 07:39 AM
I have two names for the OP (if one chooses to believe such superstitions):

Adam and Eve

We went from 2 people, to a population of BILLIONS.

Surely 70-80 people can achieve a few hundred MILLION? :)

Ahhh...pullin' the bible in...

Yipikyyaysupremecommanderthor
April 28th, 2011, 07:41 AM
lol im agnostic i believe in a god and science the universe and knowledge im not a christain but at the same time incest is still wrong for those christians reading i know ur in shock seeing a non christian being moral lol jk

Ser Scot A Ellison
April 28th, 2011, 01:18 PM
darkthunder84,


I have two names for the OP (if one chooses to believe such superstitions):

Adam and Eve

We went from 2 people, to a population of BILLIONS.

Surely 70-80 people can achieve a few hundred MILLION? :)

Metaphore dude. Metaphore. The creation stories in Gensis are not to be taken as fact.

Keeper
April 28th, 2011, 01:22 PM
darkthunder84,



Metaphore dude. Metaphore. The creation stories in Gensis are not to be taken as fact.

good luck with that one - i do in fact have a friend who believes it literally. same with moses living what... 400 years? on which note - if you follow the superstition involved as fact, it could explain why we're so short-lived today. lots and lots of incest, shortening our lives. we're just at the point where it's either shorter lives or genetic mutations, and mutations win out for some reason :p

Ser Scot A Ellison
April 28th, 2011, 01:32 PM
Keeper,

I'm a Christian but I am most definately not a young Earth Creationist evangelical. They make my brain hurt.

Keeper
April 28th, 2011, 01:34 PM
my friend is a catholic, and in her 40s. seriously, i think she'd make those Earth Creationists brains hurt with half the rubbish she comes out with :p

LtColCarter
April 29th, 2011, 09:13 AM
my friend is a catholic, and in her 40s. seriously, i think she'd make those Earth Creationists brains hurt with half the rubbish she comes out with :p

O_o I'm Catholic...what rubbish are you referring to? (gets k'woosh ready).

Keeper
April 29th, 2011, 09:22 AM
O_o I'm Catholic...what rubbish are you referring to? (gets k'woosh ready).

the rubbish she comes out with is stuff she pretends is acceptable - as long as you're one of the faithful.

i've followed catholicism in my past, even though i'm not into it now. trust me, this woman has - at best - dubious ideas about it :p

i don't tar all with the same brush though, because i know she's an extreme case :)

LtColCarter
April 29th, 2011, 09:54 AM
the rubbish she comes out with is stuff she pretends is acceptable - as long as you're one of the faithful.

i've followed catholicism in my past, even though i'm not into it now. trust me, this woman has - at best - dubious ideas about it :p

i don't tar all with the same brush though, because i know she's an extreme case :)

I'm intriqued...what specific rubbish?

Lahela
April 29th, 2011, 10:06 AM
*curses - just typed a big reply but stupid browser did stupid things*

Am I not correct in thinking that genetic research has shown that the entirety of the human population is descendant of a very small core group out of Africa?

Anyway, if we look at the kids born to the first generation of settlers that we saw (Chloe/Scott - 2; TJ/Young - 2; James/Varro - 3; Barnes/Eli - 1 (or more); Park/Greer - 7) and consider that there could have been another 30ish couples breeding, it's well within the realms of believability that they avoided problems of interbreeding.

LtColCarter
April 29th, 2011, 10:22 AM
*curses - just typed a big reply but stupid browser did stupid things*

Am I not correct in thinking that genetic research has shown that the entirety of the human population is descendant of a very small core group out of Africa?

Anyway, if we look at the kids born to the first generation of settlers that we saw (Chloe/Scott - 2; TJ/Young - 2; James/Varro - 3; Barnes/Eli - 1 (or more); Park/Greer - 7) and consider that there could have been another 30ish couples breeding, it's well within the realms of believability that they avoided problems of interbreeding.

I saw either earlier in this thread or another similar thread that there were 80 crew members...which would mean 40 couples producing off-spring.

Ukko
April 29th, 2011, 10:35 AM
I saw either earlier in this thread or another similar thread that there were 80 crew members...which would mean 40 couples producing off-spring.

That would be the genetic diversity thread, wich pretty much dealt with this subject.:D

LtColCarter
April 29th, 2011, 11:04 AM
That would be the genetic diversity thread, wich pretty much dealt with this subject.:D

TY...I knew I saw it somewhere.

Gollumpus
April 30th, 2011, 09:43 PM
I didnt see any genetic disfigurements or disablitities so im thinking that they decided not to think that one through enough.... its disgusting but other than that it was a pretty good episode...lol i couldnt get the thought of the incest out of my head watching it

Might be that only the "normal" looking ones get out in the sunlight, while the others were driven underground to mine and such. Didn't someone mention "Morlocks" in this episode?

regards,
G.

morrismike
May 2nd, 2011, 04:29 AM
We came from somewhere.

Besides, when you reproduce for survival and not recreation, each family probably had close to two digits worth of kids.

Also, marrying and having kids with 2nd or 3rd cousins is completely acceptable when it comes to genetics. Getting with a 1st cousin is pushing it a little, but still isn't unheard of.

I think I remember one of them saying they had 9 kids and 15 grandchildren. That's not abnormal when you reproduce for survival.
Actually that's not even unusual (well 4 or 5 kids anyway) when the husband works and provides for his family. Our current society force the women to work to pay the husbands taxes and the end result is far fewer children.

morrismike
May 2nd, 2011, 04:31 AM
I think it was a bit unfortunate they didn't implement some mass breeding policy. From a communitarian perspective there is no good excuse for first generation fertile females like Wray not reproducing. She should really have taken one for the team.

Again from a communitarian perspective it's very unsetteling to see such discrepancies in reproduction rates, I mean who did the offspring of Greer and Park end up having sex with exactly??
Wray is at least 40 to 45 and has been suffering from malnutrition for the past year. It is likely she isn't fertile.

morrismike
May 2nd, 2011, 04:34 AM
remember their has to be a large enough population to prevent incest and genetic degradation ussually close to 500 for that many generations and last time i checked they're wasnt even close to that on destiny alone so yes everyone of those people on novus could actually call each other cousin
It would be hundreds of years before the offspring would need to marry those of ANY blood relation. If there is any sort of peer pressure at all they won't even need to marry 3rd or 4th cousins. You should probably read a little more and post a lot less.

Yipikyyaysupremecommanderthor
May 2nd, 2011, 07:53 AM
the reason wray idnt get pregnant was because she'a lesbian their aint much point in talking about her getting pregnant she didnt want to

LtColCarter
May 2nd, 2011, 09:37 AM
It would be hundreds of years before the offspring would need to marry those of ANY blood relation. If there is any sort of peer pressure at all they won't even need to marry 3rd or 4th cousins. You should probably read a little more and post a lot less.

I agree...

KEK
May 2nd, 2011, 09:22 PM
the reason wray idnt get pregnant was because she'a lesbian their aint much point in talking about her getting pregnant she didnt want to

I think we've already established that being a lesbian neither stops you from getting pregnant, nor stops you wanting to.

LtColCarter
May 3rd, 2011, 06:16 AM
I think we've already established that being a lesbian neither stops you from getting pregnant, nor stops you wanting to.

This is true!

Yipikyyaysupremecommanderthor
May 3rd, 2011, 07:55 AM
im saying she willingly chose not to because shes still loyal to that other lesbian on earth who is her soul mate which is kinda wierd seeing they went 2 thousand years in the past meaning she wasnt born yet

LtColCarter
May 3rd, 2011, 08:36 AM
im saying she willingly chose not to because shes still loyal to that other lesbian on earth who is her soul mate which is kinda wierd seeing they went 2 thousand years in the past meaning she wasnt born yet

I agree. Could you please use punctuation in the future? That was difficult to read.

Keeper
May 3rd, 2011, 09:09 AM
im saying she willingly chose not to because shes still loyal to that other lesbian on earth who is her soul mate which is kinda wierd seeing they went 2 thousand years in the past meaning she wasnt born yet

however, she's been dating on novus. that means that - even though she HAS met her soulmate in her past (which is 2000 years in the future) she's also open-minded about spending time with other people.

also, if some form of IVF or something is developed, there's no issue at all with staying faithful.