Military Science Fiction?^

[Laxian of Earth]

Hey Guys

as i am just watching Battlestar Galactica, which - despite it being pretty good over all - i have a lot of issues with (religious crap, sometimes to dark (IMHO), not enough real battles (involving larger fleets, say 10+ ships), head six and head baltar (hate those two - if i would not no that they are "real" i would say baltar and caprica six are crazy....hell who am i kidding, anyone having another personality/person in his head is a freakin' nut-cake)), roslin (find here anoying), no martial law declaration in the refugee fleet (would have made things a lot easier during first season) etc.)....well on with the original sentence (i'll repeat it, because i just had to "**** it up" by inserting my problems with BSG ^^)

as i am just watching BSG (new) i am looking for more, well military science fiction shows (and films) with battles (in space, but also on ground), with a lot of tactics etc. involved (do not put star trek in here, only star trek thing that come close to this is Deepspace 9 - during the dominion war)

why am i asking - i used google already to look for some, i went through all science fiction i know and i came up pretty empty handed (when i went through books i have read, i was a lot more succesfull)

so i list what i got here and then it is your turn:

1. BSG (old an new)
2. Space Above and Beyond
3. Babylon 5 (not all of that, but it is some of the best science fiction and it involves space battles etc.)
4. star trek: DS9
5. Stargate (all of them, also i do not see much tactics involved in the space fights and they are all in all pretty lame (ships standing still and slugging it out...come on we are not in the sail ship ages, ships move and they do not have to be side by side to shoot at each other...
6. ....no idea (coming up empty here

so, your turn, find me more (i need my fix ^^)

greetings LAX

[Flyboy]

Try reading 'The Lost Fleet' series. They sound right up your street.

[Mr Evil 37]

Well, the new Battlestar Galactica spin-off, Blood & Chrome, is set during the First Cylon War and will be more action heavy. I just hope they don't sacrifice the character development and thematic depth though.

To be honest, there are not many military science fiction shows except for the ones already mentioned. They cost a lot to make. The Halo, Gears of War and Mass Effect video game series are definitely military science fiction, and they are all fantastic.

Like you said, there are a LOT more military science fiction novels than TV series or films.

But are space battles and action the only things you look for? What about great stories? Intriguing, flawed and well-developed characters? Interesting thematic subtext?

[thekillman]

the BSG battles work fine IMHO. there might not be massive fleet battles but hey. can't have everything.



Firefly didn't work for me, maybe for you.

[gotthammer]

I don't remember much of it, but I do recall following 'Space: Above and Beyond'
(I think I only liked the space fighter/carrier segments, not the ground combat stuff)

How about anime?
I think it falls under 'space opera', mostly, but 'Legend of the Galactic Heroes' deals w/ a lot of military stuff (and politics...lots of politics) and even tries to portray the setting's tactics/strategies (I think it was ok, considering they didn't seem to use any CG...and the battles are 'big').
The latest Armoured Trooper VOTOMS (Pailsen Files, I think) also comes to mind.
Not sure if the Ghost in the Shell series fits under military sci-fi (is Sec.9 civilian?), but that's pretty good, too.

For games:
The Wing Commander series and the X-Wing/Tie Fighter games come to mind.
How about X-Com/UFO? Homeworld series? Sins of a Solar Empire? SW:Rebellion or SW:Empire at War? And a lot of shooters and RTS games?

Books:
I'm currently enjoying the Honor Harrington series by David Weber

[Laxian of Earth]

well i read "the lost fleet" (with the exception of the last book - but i will get to that eventually), i played every mass effect game (with almost every DLC, except the last one to come out)

honour harrington is right up my alley (read every book of the main story and i am thinking about reading the rest, too)

space above and beyond was fun to watch, too (and i agree, the ground fighting was not that good, even more: using PILOTS (which are amongst the most expensive military personal to train) as ground fighting units is stupid IMHO, even more if they are your best flying unit (the wildcards seem to be the best they have as they use them in battle, even after they should be suspended for disobedience of a direct order))

well, is that really everything there is?.....if so: that's sad (IMHO space-ship-science-fiction seems to be a dying out breed anyway, which is something that should not happen, even more so as they now have the CGI-Effects to make those even look better while not being as expensive as it once was)

as for "blood and chrome": i have some hope for it, it's just that i hate religious bull**** (sorry, i am not really religious and people saying you really need religion in order to "function" correctly and have morals and such is just stupid IMHO) and they have the problem, that the end (and some of the history of BSG) is already known to us which could hinder really new developments and such....still, i will watch that (as i have hopes that it could be good)

firefly? - sorry, but NO WAY (hell i had trouble getting into Farscape, but cowboys in space...sorry, but no - watched the movie (serenity i think is the title) and i didn't like it much (but it was the only half way watchable thing on TV that night

for games: i liked IMPERIUM GALACTICA (I and II - i hated sins of a solar empire though....homeworld was something i never played (except for a demo, didn't think it good enough to spend money on it))

SW: Empire at war i played through, too (didn't get the "mission dvd" though....forces of corruption it was called i think)

gears of war? - heard of it, might try that....as for Halo, well played a demo once (and disliked a few things about it (being unable to carry more than two guns for example) and the crappy relocation from the X-BOX......(they do that with every game they port to the PC from other sources, they do not take into account that more precise aiming and moving is possible with keyboard and mouse then with a controller, sad thing that is))

so, any more stuff i should consider?

greetings LAX

[Starsaber]

A couple more series of books you might like:

The Vatta's War series by Elizabeth Moon. The first book (Trading in Danger) doesn't have much combat in it, since it's mostly establishing the world, but the rest of the series has a good amount of action.

The Kris Longknife series by Mike Shepherd.

The Valor series by Tanya Huff (more focused on infantry combat).

[Wyrminarrd]

One of my favorite book series featuring large scale fleet action is "The stars at war" series by David Weber and Steve White.

(http://www.amazon.com/Stars-War-Webe...3828688&sr=1-1

Don't let the rating fool you, it got pounded a bit since this is a collection of the first two or three books which pissed of people who thought it was a continuation of the series. The entire series was condensed into two books (Stars at war & Stars at war II) but you can buy all the books individually if you prefer.

[magictrick]

I don't know what to recommend to someone who doesn't like Firefly

You can always watch Starship Troopers, pretty much fits all the criteria you listed.

[Mr Evil 37]

Dude, seriously, Firefly is one of the best TV shows ever made.

[Laxian of Earth]

you are strange....(and: if firefly was that good, then why the FRAK does it not have more then one season?)....

cowboys in space is not my style (and probably never will be) and i do not see much military or space battles in it (serenity had a little of that (spacebattle in the end, but that was just really really short and it did not say, well involve planing of an assault and the debrieving bevor it and such

so, your turn again (will check out those recommendations that are here already)

greetings LAX

[Keeper]

firefly suffered in ratings, but was popular enough for a film (serenity) to be made. iirc the series did pretty well in DVD sales so it's more likely bad timing or fierce competition on airing.


andromeda has some military aspects in it - though it's limited, there's only a handful of episodes with really big space battles, and there's no ground war anywhere - a couple of skirmishes, boarding of ships, but nothing serious.

farscape... again, like andromeda, not much in the way of major battles, but again some military aspects.

may not be what you're really looking for but can't think of much else.

[Krichton]

Try reading 'The Lost Fleet' series. They sound right up your street.

Yeah, the answer is to read more, whether it be Lost Fleet, Honor Harrington, Seafort Saga or Old Man's War. The scifi section at the bookstore is filled to the brim with military scifi. Don't look to television or film if you want military science fiction.

[gotthammer]

For something to watch, I really would recommend the anime Ginga Eiyuu Densetsu (Legend of the Galactic Heroes).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend_...alactic_Heroes
The two main characters are military leaders, politics aplenty and the battles are massive: think 18th century European infantry battles, where each ship = is like 1 man, but the battlefield is, well, space (so formations are 3D...of course, I don't think the series really had any 3D CG )...so you basically have a fleet with an average size of around 15,000 ships (each crewed by hundreds of men), with engagement ranges in excess of (if the translation is right) around 90 million kilometres.

Unfortunately, the series was never 'officially' brought to the 'west' (I guess western anime publishers/translators didn't want to handle a 110 episode series w/ a few movies, especially if it might not appeal to a 'wide audience' *shrugs*)...so only a 'fansub' version is available. (the DVD set is, I think Japanese only...and is quite expensive)

It is, IMHO, worth looking for.

The start of the 15 episode, and one of the biggest engagements in the series.

Do note, tho', that battles aren't the only focus of the series. It is POLITICS-heavy, but that, IMHO, is one of the better aspects of the series.
Oh, and it uses a lot of classical pieces (like the one from Dvorak in the clip above. Most of the series's music is made up of classical/orchestral pieces from European composers). I think it was to 'save cash' during production, but, IMHO, it worked very well for the entire series.

Edit: might as well link the 'intro' to the series (actually, I think there was a movie before the first episode of the series...)

Edit: Oops. I guess the 'intro' to the series would indeed be the 'first movie' (it's also on YouTube. "My Conquest Is The Sea of Stars")

[Mr Evil 37]

So, a story can only be good if it has space battles? What about the plot itself? What about the characters? What about the themes it deals with?