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View Full Version : Novus...the Ontological (bootstrap) Paradox



navyguy3185
April 21st, 2011, 08:36 AM
I have seen much debate in this forum about this Paradox of sorts. I have stated before that Novus is a bootstrap paradox. There is no ALTERNATE timeline...The timeline that we have only loops back upon itself. If there was an alternate timeline created, we would have no Col. Telford in the timeline we follow in our story.
When Destiny dropped out of FTL. The solar flare had to have happened in the few second interval between when he went through and when everyone else did, or else they would have all ended up back on earth.

2000 years ago Novas ALWAYS get founded....technology develops the same as it does in any other brand new culture with the exception of the knowledge they already had. When they rushed through the gate there is no indication that they had anything more than a kino and the clothes on their back. So.....they develop their civilization the best that they can, and the leave it to their descendants when they die off. Just like us, they went from almost primitive to technological epicenter in 2 millennia. The drones COULD have been built by the Novasians....just not the founders (destiny's crew). Just because a couple young adults that were born in the expedition camps never have seen a drone, doesn't mean their people didn't build them...
Ok...moving on...2000 years ago Novas founded.....life goes on....2000 years later Destiny enters the galaxy, wants to try to dial home in the sun, tries, and fails....Telford goes through the gate, goes back home....solar flare happens...the rest of the crew does the same and gets thrust back 2 millennia, thus completing the loop....while destiny itself only gets thrown back 12 hours....meeting itself close to the moment where it was destroyed.

Destiny did not create an alternate timeline.....but only brought itself back to the point where time could move forward again....

LtColCarter
April 21st, 2011, 09:57 AM
I think I agree with Captain Janeway...all of this time travel stuff gives me a headache! ;)

D Toccs
April 21st, 2011, 10:07 AM
That's not how time travel works in Stargate.

In Stragate, every time that a time traveler changes history, they create a new timeline which replaces the old one. Examples include 2010, Moebius parts 1 and 2, Before I Sleep, The Last Man and Continuum.
It doesn't matter what kind of theory you subscribe to re: time travel in the real world, in Stargate that is how it works.


If there was an alternate timeline created, we would have no Col. Telford in the timeline we follow in our story.

That statement makes absolutely no sense.

Rylor
April 21st, 2011, 10:27 AM
I guess it depends on your definition of "alternate timeline" and your point of view.

a) The "original" timeline

In this timeline, Novus never existed and Destiny established a wormhole back to Earth. The ship, Rush and Telford traveled back 12 hours in time and the rest of the crew 2000 years into the past. At that moment, this timeline ceased to exist (at least from the viewpoint of all people involved in the time travel, because they become part of the new timeline).

b) The "altered" timeline

In this timeline, Destiny never attempted to dial Earth, because Rush from the original timeline warned them about the danger. For this Destiny and her crew, Novus always existed, because this timeline was formed through the same action which led to the foundation of Novus.

Of course, in the end, there are still logical problems. No timeline can exist without the other, (b) is formed through a), and a always leads to b)), so in some form, they both exist. But in the end, they all end up in timeline b). Timeline a) may continue to exist somehow, but there is no Destiny (after the time travel) and no Novus.

Time travel gives me a headache as well :D

The_Asgard_live
April 21st, 2011, 10:27 AM
That's not how time travel works in Stargate.

In Stragate, every time that a time traveler changes history, they create a new timeline which replaces the old one. Examples include 2010, Moebius parts 1 and 2, Before I Sleep, The Last Man and Continuum.
It doesn't matter what kind of theory you subscribe to re: time travel in the real world, in Stargate that is how it works.

I agree. Isn't timeline really just shorthand for, 'timeline of events'? Change the events, you've created an alternate timeline, no?
What is interesting about this alternate timeline is that it seemingly changes nothing in human (milkway or other near by galaxy) history at all. UNTIL Destiny meets the settlers (well technically until destiny meets the other destiny and they salvage supplies).

LtColCarter
April 21st, 2011, 11:01 AM
I agree with what you're talking about with the time travel aspect. Then how does one explain that Destiny's crew from today...meets their descendants from a colony they spawned 2000 years earlier?

Choo1701
April 21st, 2011, 11:20 AM
I agree with what you're talking about with the time travel aspect. Then how does one explain that Destiny's crew from today...meets their descendants from a colony they spawned 2000 years earlier?

Easy: the way Stargate ALWAYS explains this stuff:


MAGNETS!



although if you were doing it the Doctor Who way, techically dialing inside a star turns said star into a big firey ball of 'wibbly woobly timey whimey'. But thats another, completly different universe! (Ah nerdom) :p

LtColCarter
April 21st, 2011, 11:23 AM
Easy: the way Stargate ALWAYS explains this stuff:


MAGNETS!




although if you were doing it the Doctor Who way, techically dialing inside a star turns said star into a big firey ball of 'wibbly woobly timey whimey'. But thats another, completly different universe! (Ah nerdom) :p

:lol:

Not helpful, but funny! ;)

Trinary
April 21st, 2011, 01:02 PM
Bootstrap? It's more like a magic paradox. Incomplete and unexplained. How the destiny from -12 hours universe suddenly crossover into this universe. So in this universe timeline, the existing crews who missing was dead around 1900 years ago. The only crew left was Telford on Earth. That's mean the original main characters already dead, the original destiny already destroyed and the show should be ended.

No wonder SGU got canceled by Syfy, the time travel or timeline getting mess up like the Lost series. I think the same reason Lost got canceled by the channel. The SGU show might still be on if the current living destiny crews realized they were from the -12 hour universe and try to get back to the timeline and resume their journey or find a way back to their -12 hours Earth.

LtColCarter
April 21st, 2011, 01:05 PM
Bootstrap? It's more like a magic paradox. Incomplete and unexplained. How the destiny from -12 hours universe suddenly crossover into this universe. So in this universe timeline, the existing crews who missing was dead around 1900 years ago. The only crew left was Telford on Earth. That's mean the original main characters already dead, the original destiny already destroyed and the show should be ended.

No wonder SGU got canceled by Syfy, the time travel or timeline getting mess up like the Lost series. I think the same reason Lost got canceled by the channel. The show might still be on if the current living destiny crews realized they were from the -12 hour universe and try to get back to the timeline and resume their journey or find a way back to their -12 hours Earth.

Really? :confused:

Choo1701
April 21st, 2011, 01:24 PM
... I think the same reason Lost got canceled by the channel.

Lost didn't get cancelled, the network set out how many season the show would get during season 3.

Which the writers were fine with because like you said, the show was wandering all over the place! :p

Major_Griff
April 21st, 2011, 01:46 PM
That's not how time travel works in Stargate.

In Stragate, every time that a time traveler changes history, they create a new timeline which replaces the old one. Examples include 2010, Moebius parts 1 and 2, Before I Sleep, The Last Man and Continuum.
It doesn't matter what kind of theory you subscribe to re: time travel in the real world, in Stargate that is how it works.



That statement makes absolutely no sense.

That is how time travel worked in the first Stargate time travel story "1969". SG has never been consistent with time travel.

The Destiny
April 21st, 2011, 03:45 PM
Noone is consistent with timetravel. Timetravel is Doctor who's biggest plot device.


However this matter is simple. In fact it made perfect sense to me. I carefully laid out the timeline of events in the "Twin destinies" discussion. In many timetravel stories you have the "real" ( everything is relative ) timeline, then they go back in time, change stuff and cause an "alternate timeline" to be created.


Anyway, here is the sequence of events and it's frankly pretty logical, you just need a handful of logical assumptions of at which point the ship jumped back in time 12 hours etc.

- Destiny dives into sun
- Destiny dials Earth. At this exact moment they dial the entire ship is taken 12 hours back in time. Telford steps through and arrives on Earth, "12 hours ago" , at a moment in time before Destiny had actually arrived at the star. I gave evidence for Telford being 12 hours back in time as well in the Twin destinies discussion.
- Before anyone else steps through, the wormhole becomes unstable and due to extreme solar flare activity of dailing inside a star the wormhole rips through time and loops back unto itself 2000 years ago ( this is either an inconsistency, or just something new ( it's not like we've dialed inside a star often ) of a wormhole changing it's trajectory AFTER it's already connected for a few seconds ) There was no destiny there 2000 years ago, so instead it connects to Novus.
- Destiny crew step through ( after Telford ) and end up on Novus.

There ya go, that is all there is to it. I find it very straightforward.

D Toccs
April 21st, 2011, 04:45 PM
That is how time travel worked in the first Stargate time travel story "1969". SG has never been consistent with time travel.

No, 1969 is the only Stargate time travel story to not feature the creation of a new timeline. 1969 was a stable time loop.

Every other time travel story in Stargate has created a new "alternate" time line which replaced the one that came before it.

I first wrote this in a thread in the Twin Destinies discussion, but I'll put it here as well. This is a breakdown of how the timelines and time travel have worked in Stargate so far.


Timleine #1 = Events of SG1 seasons 1-4. Earth makes alliance with the Aschen. The Aschen defeat the Goa'uld, begin sterilizing Earth. In 2010 O'Niell sends a message back in time to prevent contact with the Aschen.
Timeline #2 = Events of SG1 seasons 1-7. Atlanist Expedition arrive in Pegasus, Atlantis' shields fail, the city is destroyed. Weir travels back in time.
Timeline #3 = Events of SG1 seasons 1-8, SGA season 1. SG1 travel back to Ancient Egypt to steal a ZPM. They get stranded there and incite the rebellon against RA. Ra leaves Earth taking the stargate with him.
Timeline #4 = Stargate Program never existed. Government eventually finds SG1's tape from Ancient Egypt and uncover the second gate. Mission to Chulak, O'Niell, Carter and Teal'c travel to Ancient Egypt and meet Daniel Jackson from timeline #3. The incite the rebellion and succeed, Ra leaves Earth without taking the gate.
Timeline #5 = Events of SG1 seasons 1-10, AoT, SGA seasons 1-4. Sheppard gets sent 49,000 years into the future. Michael conquers the Pegasus Galaxy, Earth abandons Atlantis. McKay creates his hologram to get Sheppard back from the future. McKay's plan works, Sheppard is sent back in time.
Timeline #6 = Events of SG1 seasons 1-10, AoT, SGA seaons 1-4. Baal travels back in time and sinks the Achilles and stargate in the 1930's.
Timeline #7 = Stargate Program never existed. Baal conquers the Milky Way Galaxy. Mitchell, Carter and Jackson from timeline #6 get shifted into this timeline. They access Baal's time machine and Mitchell travels back in time and kills Baal saving the Achilles.
Timeline #8 = Events of SG1 seasons 1-10, AoT, Contiuum, SGA seasons 1-5, SGU season 1.0. The Destiny crew become stranded on the planet due to unstable wormhole. The crew get killed by the Squigglers, Rush and a Kino with the recorded events go through the unstable wormhole and are sent back in time.
Timeline #9 = Events of SG1 seasons 1-10, AoT, Contiuum, SGA seasons 1-5, SGU season 1.0. The Destiny crew find the Kino and watch the recording. The crew begins dying from the parasite in the water supply. A team is sent to the planet and are killed by the Squigglers. Scott records instructions on a Kino and sends it through the unstable wormhole and back in time.
Timeline #10 = Events of SG1 seasons 1-10, AoT, Contiuum, SGA seasons 1-5, SGU seasons 1-2.0. The Destiny crew enact a plan to dial Earth while inside a star. A solar flare cause the wormhole to become unstable and the Ship along with Telford and Rush are sent back in time by 12 hours and the rest of the crew back 2000 years.
Timeline #11 = Events of SG1 seasons 1-10, AoT, Contiuum, SGA seasons 1-5, SGU seasons 1-2.

The Destiny
April 21st, 2011, 04:49 PM
Following on D Toccs, in this case the "real timeline" is the one where Destiny dives into the sun and they dial Earth. The ship then pops back in time but the timeline still continues, just without a destiny. The moment to where the destiny goes back is the alternate timeline. So the timeline we're following in SGU right now is the alternate: it's a timeline that was changed due to timetravel and replaced the old one.

D Toccs
April 21st, 2011, 04:53 PM
Following on D Toccs, in this case the "real timeline" is the one where Destiny dives into the sun and they dial Earth. The ship then pops back in time but the timeline still continues, just without a destiny. The moment to where the destiny goes back is the alternate timeline. So the timeline we're following in SGU right now is the alternate: it's a timeline that was changed due to timetravel and replaced the old one.

No, the "real" timeline is the most current one. There have been 11 timelines created throughout the run of the franchise. "Our" timeline is Timeline #11. All of the events of all 3 series and everything we have been watching since 1997 has taken place in Timeline #11.

The timeline where Destiny dialed inside the sun did not "continue without a Destiny". That timeline no longer exists at all, it was replaced by "our" timeline.

Meryl
April 21st, 2011, 05:19 PM
No, the "real" timeline is the most current one. There have been 11 timelines created throughout the run of the franchise. "Our" timeline is Timeline #11. All of the events of all 3 series and everything we have been watching since 1997 has taken place in Timeline #11.

The timeline where Destiny dialed inside the sun did not "continue without a Destiny". That timeline no longer exists at all, it was replaced by "our" timeline.

Then how do you explain that the two timeline meets? 10 and 11 crossover so it makes no sense. If you were right, in the timeline 11, 10 never happened so this episode would not happen too

D Toccs
April 21st, 2011, 05:25 PM
Then how do you explain that the two timeline meets? 10 and 11 crossover so it makes no sense. If you were right, in the timeline 11, 10 never happened so this episode would not happen too

The two timelines did not meet. The Destiny and it's crew from Timeline #10 traveled back in time and changed things by preventing the mid-sun dial. At that moment Timeline #10 ceased to exist and was replaced by Timeline #11 "our" timeline. The only thing remaining from Timeline #10 was the Detsiny which now existed within the new timeline.

It's the same thing that applies to the Alt. Weir in Before I Sleep, the two different Alt. SG1's in Moebius and the Alt. SG1 team in Continuum as well as every other time travel episode.

Meryl
April 21st, 2011, 05:35 PM
The two timelines did not meet. The Destiny and it's crew from Timeline #10 traveled back in time and changed things by preventing the mid-sun dial. At that moment Timeline #10 ceased to exist and was replaced by Timeline #11 "our" timeline. The only thing remaining from Timeline #10 was the Detsiny which now existed within the new timeline.

It's the same thing that applies to the Alt. Weir in Before I Sleep, the two different Alt. SG1's in Moebius and the Alt. SG1 team in Continuum as well as every other time travel episode.

Yeah you're right. Didn't thought about it but the same has happened to Mitchell when he went back in time. Thanks!

Nth Chevron
April 21st, 2011, 05:50 PM
They are both the same timeline, its a very obscure and watered down self-fulfilling prophecy.

Its exactly the same as Mitchell going back to 1929, stopping Baal in Continuum and then living the rest of his natural life in obscurity, leaving his younger self to carry on his real life.

Dont think of these events as a new timeline, think of them as laying rail tracks, you get to 6 miles in length but then something happens and there is a problem with a piece at 4 miles length so your sent back to fix it.

Think of our timeline as a 2D rollercoaster track, timetravel is 3D movement along this 2D track, its a simple loop in the track. At one point the rolloarcoaster is passing over the same track it just past when viewed from 2D, yet thanks to 3D movement (timetravel) its possible, without creating a whole new track.

Simples.

N.C

D Toccs
April 21st, 2011, 06:16 PM
They are both the same timeline, its a very obscure and watered down self-fulfilling prophecy.

It is not a self fulfilling prophecy because it did not fulfill, Destiny did not dial in the sun and the crew did not go back in time.

They are definately not the same timeline, the timeline where Destiny dialed inside the sun ceased to exist the moment that Alt. Rush stopped our Destiny from going through with it. All that remains of that timeline now is Telford.


Its exactly the same as Mitchell going back to 1929, stopping Baal in Continuum and then living the rest of his natural life in obscurity, leaving his younger self to carry on his real life.

Yes it is exactly the same as that. The Mitchell that lived in 1929 was not our Mitchell, he was a Mitchell from an alternate timeline.

Shylodog
April 21st, 2011, 11:54 PM
To prevent a headache, we can say the timelines ceased to exist, however, it's kind of important to remember that they didn't just cease, we just shouldn't consider them anymore. They are simply timelines that go off on their own no longer containing the people who left them. Otherwise, stories like McKay's power sapping from alternate universes (or timelines) would be a difficult story to swallow.

D Toccs
April 22nd, 2011, 12:10 AM
To prevent a headache, we can say the timelines ceased to exist, however, it's kind of important to remember that they didn't just cease, we just shouldn't consider them anymore. They are simply timelines that go off on their own no longer containing the people who left them. Otherwise, stories like McKay's power sapping from alternate universes (or timelines) would be a difficult story to swallow.

In Stargate, there is a difference between an Alternate Universe and an Alternate Timeline. Alternate Universes always exist and are a completely separate space/time from our universe. An Alternate timeline is our universe just different.

Alternate Timelines indeed do cease to exist once a new timeline is created.
The Quantum Mirror or the Alternate Reality Drive could not connect to the timeline from Moebius, Continuum or Twin Destinies.

thekillman
April 22nd, 2011, 01:38 AM
Alternate Timelines indeed do cease to exist once a new timeline is created.
The Quantum Mirror or the Alternate Reality Drive could not connect to the timeline from Moebius, Continuum or Twin Destinies.

never proven.

my understanding is that the two universes continue to exist in the Multiverse. given it's nature, you need to jump an infinite amount of realities to get to one which is midly different. the Deadalus Variations drive literally jumped infinite amounts of infinite universes at a time

D Toccs
April 22nd, 2011, 02:29 AM
never proven.

my understanding is that the two universes continue to exist in the Multiverse. given it's nature, you need to jump an infinite amount of realities to get to one which is midly different. the Deadalus Variations drive literally jumped infinite amounts of infinite universes at a time

It's been proven many times. 2010, Before I Sleep, Moebius, The Last Man and Time all feature the new timeline replacing the old one. In Continuum we actually get to see it happening.

Alternate Timelines are not Alternate Universes in Stargate lore.

Trinary
April 22nd, 2011, 03:57 AM
All this tricky timelines just to say the timeline was being rebooted? They write something that they can't explained enough or show the audiences enough elements to make them understand or accept this a "Reboot" timeline. Like a Lost series, the writer know what it is but can't explain it enough. Incomplete theory.

To my understanding, after trace it's route of events, they suppose to show the connections of the following:


Dialing a gate inside a star will send them into a near past. 12 hours earlier to be exact. Telford walking into the event horizon already in the past. This is the Reboot time travel introduce into Stargate franchise after Lost and Star Trek (reboot). But without the Blackhole or FDW (frozen donkey wheel).


The Solar flare happen at the exact time when they we're arrived at the 12 hour earlier timeline. Not at the current timeline. After a few seconds Telford gone the anomaly shown at the event horizon indicate the Solar flare interference.


That Solar flare send the following travelers back to 2000 years into the distant past on this -12 hours timeline. We can accept this since the characteristic of the solar flare controlling how far they would go to past or to future as Baal' machine show it.


Destiny from this timeline didn't dial the gate inside the star, and the original destiny destroy in the star at this -12 hours timeline. While the missing crews set a new civilization and changing the past of this timeline at this region of space. Why Ursini didn't know them since they're from the same galaxy? Oh yeah. Ursini already dead and Telford didn't mentioned whether Ursini have encountered Novusions while he viewing the the archive in the Ursini's pod. A discrepancy here.


So the current timeline on the show after the Twins Destiny episode is -12hrs timeline. In our timeline there was no more destiny and no Novusians civilization.



Am I right in understanding the current timeline in the SGU?

Nth Chevron
April 22nd, 2011, 05:11 AM
It is not a self fulfilling prophecy because it did not fulfill, Destiny did not dial in the sun and the crew did not go back in time.

They are definately not the same timeline, the timeline where Destiny dialed inside the sun ceased to exist the moment that Alt. Rush stopped our Destiny from going through with it. All that remains of that timeline now is Telford.



Yes it is exactly the same as that. The Mitchell that lived in 1929 was not our Mitchell, he was a Mitchell from an alternate timeline.

It IS a kind of self fulfilling prophecy, an unintended one, by dialing Earth from inside the star they went back in time to prevent themselves doing so, and as their earlier selves were intending to do just that but are only prevented by one of their later selves coming back to warn them not to, SHOULD, have made alt cease to exist but it didnt because it isnt an Alt timeline its a loop-the-loop in the same timeline.

Also, the Mitchell was exactly the same Mitchell who was here but 10 years older due to Baal's tinkering, he WAS the same.

N.C

D Toccs
April 22nd, 2011, 05:25 AM
It IS a kind of self fulfilling prophecy, an unintended one, by dialing Earth from inside the star they went back in time to prevent themselves doing so, and as their earlier selves were intending to do just that but are only prevented by one of their later selves coming back to warn them not to, SHOULD, have made alt cease to exist but it didnt because it isnt an Alt timeline its a loop-the-loop in the same timeline.

It was not a loop. A loop is something like in 1969 where Young Hammond meets SG1, gets a note from himself and sees the cut on Carter's hand, then 40 years later he meets SG1 and upon seeing the cut on Carter's hand he writes the very note that his younger self read.

What happened in Twin Destinies is a simple case of time travelers from the future traveling back in time and changing the past.


Also, the Mitchell was exactly the same Mitchell who was here but 10 years older due to Baal's tinkering, he WAS the same.

He might be physically the same, but he most definately was not "our" Mitchell. Our Mitchell did not ever go back in time and is completely unaware that the events of Continuum even happened.
Just like "Our" SG1 are not the same people who went back to Ancient Egypt.

LtColCarter
April 22nd, 2011, 07:51 AM
My brain is hurting! ;)

Nth Chevron
April 22nd, 2011, 08:26 AM
No no, dont misunderstand, i arent on about a gate loop round a star.

I mean a metaphorical loop in the timeline, the timeline is a 2D straight line and the time loop is a 3D movement along this 2D line, doing a simple loop like a rollercoaster, looping back on itself for a few moments before continuing on in a straight line.

Twig?

N.C

Shylodog
April 22nd, 2011, 09:19 AM
Alternate Timelines are not Alternate Universes in Stargate lore.

I completely and respectfully disagree. A minisule number of people or items being removed from a timeline are hardly reason for the timeline (Alternate Universe) to simply disappear. They simply don't matter, as Teal'c put it.

The very basis of the AU's in Stargate lore is the decisions being made, thus creating a junction which leads to the creations differing universes - or - alternate timelines.

You can keep holding onto your belief, because it makes the stories palusible for you. But that doesn't make my belief any less plausible. I can agree to disagree here.

Gatefan1976
April 22nd, 2011, 02:04 PM
I completely and respectfully disagree. A minisule number of people or items being removed from a timeline are hardly reason for the timeline (Alternate Universe) to simply disappear. They simply don't matter, as Teal'c put it.

The very basis of the AU's in Stargate lore is the decisions being made, thus creating a junction which leads to the creations differing universes - or - alternate timelines.

You can keep holding onto your belief, because it makes the stories palusible for you. But that doesn't make my belief any less plausible. I can agree to disagree here.

That is not what D toccs is saying Shylodog
Alternate timelines exist within one reality (and even then, thats not exacly what D Toccs is saying either), Alternate universes exist in a parallel yet seperate reality.

Shylodog
April 22nd, 2011, 02:36 PM
That is not what D toccs is saying Shylodog
Alternate timelines exist within one reality (and even then, thats not exacly what D Toccs is saying either), Alternate universes exist in a parallel yet seperate reality.

I get what you're saying, I think possibly I'm dumbing it down more for myself then. To me AU=AT. Helps keep the headache down a bit. But I don't think TPTB have ever nailed down the difference either (and I admit I could be wrong, but I won't admit it without proof! :) ).

Some people see a chess board, some see a checker board. *shrug*

Gatefan1976
April 22nd, 2011, 02:49 PM
I get what you're saying, I think possibly I'm dumbing it down more for myself then. To me AU=AT. Helps keep the headache down a bit. But I don't think TPTB have ever nailed down the difference either (and I admit I could be wrong, but I won't admit it without proof! :) ).

Some people see a chess board, some see a checker board. *shrug*

The best examples I can think of off hand from Stargate that show the difference is AU is when "Rod" comes over from the other dimension and is fairly different to "McKay" due to timeline/event differences in his reality, and "Last Man" where the events described by McKay to Shepp no longer happen because Shepp returns to his own timeline and prevents things from happening as they unfolded for "holo-McKay"

Shylodog
April 22nd, 2011, 02:56 PM
The best examples I can think of off hand from Stargate that show the difference is AU is when "Rod" comes over from the other dimension and is fairly different to "McKay" due to timeline/event differences in his reality, and "Last Man" where the events described by McKay to Shepp no longer happen because Shepp returns to his own timeline and prevents things from happening as they unfolded for "holo-McKay"

And I would say that what you are referring to as an alternate reality is simply one of the billions of alternate timelines which is still the same as alternate universes. You are choosing to subcompatrmentalize the timelines into different realities. I am simply choosing to not utilize subcompartments.

D Toccs
April 22nd, 2011, 05:21 PM
No no, dont misunderstand, i arent on about a gate loop round a star.

I mean a metaphorical loop in the timeline, the timeline is a 2D straight line and the time loop is a 3D movement along this 2D line, doing a simple loop like a rollercoaster, looping back on itself for a few moments before continuing on in a straight line.

Twig?

N.C

I'm not talking about a "gate loop around a star" either.

An example of a time loop is like this from 1969. Young Hammond meets SG1 in 1969, gets a note in his own handwriting and notices a cut on Carter's hand. Then 40 years later he meets SG1 and notices the cut on Carter's hand so he writes himself the very note he read in 1969.
That is a loop, because nothing was changed the events of the future lead directly to the events of the past which lead directly to the events of the future that started it.

Twin Destinies is not a loop. Destiny dialed inside a star and got sent back in time, Rush from the future prevented the mid-sun dial and thus changed the past so from that point on things are different. That is not a loop.


But I don't think TPTB have ever nailed down the difference either (and I admit I could be wrong, but I won't admit it without proof! :) ).

In Continuum we actually see the timeline getting replaced. When Baal sank the Achilles he was not in an Alternate Universe, he was just in the past. When he changed things and thus changed how the timeline progressed, we see people and buildings start disappearing as the timeline changes to the new one.