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gaguhan.galore
April 19th, 2011, 07:21 AM
this got me thinking.

drones = novan experiment from the distant past gone wrong.
1. 2000 years is a long time.
2. the novus civilization obviously has been colonizing other planets. how long is anyone's guess.
3. one of their offshoots may have progressed much farther technologically while remaining cut off from the rest, deliberately or otherwise (remember the futuran-tanaran split)
4. drone interiors look derived from ancient-y designs.
5. the ursini never knew who made them, they merely found the drones sleeping. presumably after destroying their own creators.
we'll probably never know now would we

escyos
April 19th, 2011, 07:33 AM
But we encountered the drones BEFORE the alternate team travelled back in time. There are two timelines, one with Novus, one without, yet the drones are in both.

Doens't make sense.

Blistna
April 19th, 2011, 07:38 AM
this got me thinking.

drones = novan experiment from the distant past gone wrong.
1. 2000 years is a long time.
2. the novus civilization obviously has been colonizing other planets. how long is anyone's guess.
3. one of their offshoots may have progressed much farther technologically while remaining cut off from the rest, deliberately or otherwise (remember the futuran-tanaran split)
4. drone interiors look derived from ancient-y designs.
5. the ursini never knew who made them, they merely found the drones sleeping. presumably after destroying their own creators.
we'll probably never know now would we

I think we may find out who made them. I mean, I thought the other Destiny crew died and I never did guess we'll find out what happened to the ppl left behind on that planet. So who knows what they have planned for us.

Shylodog
April 19th, 2011, 07:43 AM
But we encountered the drones BEFORE the alternate team travelled back in time. There are two timelines, one with Novus, one without, yet the drones are in both.

Doens't make sense.

Actually, it makes perfect sense. We may not have encountered them yet, but the folks on Novus have been around in our timeline for 2000 years. The settlement we stumbled across had been around for 28 years(ish) before we even boarded Destiny.

Time travel episodes can be tricksy evil things.

escyos
April 19th, 2011, 07:46 AM
Actually, it makes perfect sense. We may not have encountered them yet, but the folks on Novus have been around in our timeline for 2000 years. The settlement we stumbled across had been around for 28 years(ish) before we even boarded Destiny.

Time travel episodes can be tricksy evil things.

Yes but we ENCOUNTERED the drones BEFORE that timeline was created. Novus NEVER existed until we tried to dial home, thus the drones wouldnt have existed.

escyos
April 19th, 2011, 07:52 AM
In anticipation of rebuttle:

http://www.freewebs.com/escyos/Timeline.jpg

Drones existed in both timelines, but Novus only exists in the current timeline.

Shylodog
April 19th, 2011, 07:55 AM
Yes but we ENCOUNTERED the drones BEFORE that timeline was created. Novus NEVER existed until we tried to dial home, thus the drones wouldnt have existed.

But you can't say that. We only met the drones before we KNEW about the paradox. That doesn't mean it hadn't been created yet. It was created 2000 years ago. Round about the time we were nailing a Savior to a cross.

You're looking at it in the terms of as soon as the folks jumped through the gate, a great wave washed over the universe and things had changed. I'm looking at it as if we were born in the very calm wake of the event.

Like I said before, it's a tricksy thing. :)

Shylodog
April 19th, 2011, 07:56 AM
In anticipation of rebuttle:

http://www.freewebs.com/escyos/Timeline.jpg

Drones existed in both timelines, but Novus only exists in the current timeline.

And we can postulate that in every time line EXCEPT this one, the crew always jumped through the gate. Thus continually creating the paradox in every line of the multiverse that matters, except this one.

gaguhan.galore
April 19th, 2011, 07:58 AM
time travel itself within the show doesn't make sense (barely).

hammond sending sg1 back in time to fulfill his past.
he always knew he was going to make sg1 go back to 1969 but not until that cut on carter's hand.

it could be that the act of dialing within the star that caused the timetravel fiasco was already set in stone and none of the characters even knew about it.

speaking of stones, there's that obelisk on maybourne's planet.....

with time travel you never know if you were living in a modified timeline or otherwise. (cue fishing on an empty pond suddenly with fish)

escyos
April 19th, 2011, 08:02 AM
And we can postulate that in every time line EXCEPT this one, the crew always jumped through the gate. Thus continually creating the paradox in every line of the multiverse that matters, except this one.

If they time travelled EVERY time then Rush would have been there in the first place to tell them not to dial, BUT HE WAS NOT.

Shylodog
April 19th, 2011, 08:03 AM
time travel itself within the show doesn't make sense (barely).

hammond sending sg1 back in time to fulfill his past.
he always knew he was going to make sg1 go back to 1969 but not until that cut on carter's hand.

it could be that the act of dialing within the star that caused the timetravel fiasco was already set in stone and none of the characters even knew about it.

speaking of stones, there's that obelisk on maybourne's planet.....

with time travel you never know if you were living in a modified timeline or otherwise. (cue fishing on an empty pond suddenly with fish)

Exactly. There's at least two trains of thought in timetravel in SG. One: In going back, you create a paradox and create an alternate timeline (as you mentioned). Two: Your travel is predestined and you don't change a thing (as in 1969). They never allow for BOTH to happen, because if you're actions are predestined, then you cannot alter the timeline.

Shylodog
April 19th, 2011, 08:05 AM
If they time travelled EVERY time then Rush would have been there in the first place to tell them not to dial, BUT HE WAS NOT.

That we KNOW of. It gets too perplexing and polarizing to continue this line of discussion, and TPTB know this. We get to see that which is important to THIS timeline. And quite frankly if TPTB decide to use Novus as the origin of the drone, I'm fairly certain the majority of the viewers would be ok with it.

escyos
April 19th, 2011, 08:08 AM
That we KNOW of. It gets too perplexing and polarizing to continue this line of discussion, and TPTB know this. We get to see that which is important to THIS timeline. And quite frankly if TPTB decide to use Novus as the origin of the drone, I'm fairly certain the majority of the viewers would be ok with it.

As will I be, but until then IT DID NOT HAPPEN!

Shylodog
April 19th, 2011, 08:11 AM
As will I be, but until then IT DID NOT HAPPEN!

That you know of. :P

ok, ok. I won't argue for arguing's sake. We'll just have to wait and see.

Shokada
April 19th, 2011, 08:15 AM
I know that i've already written a similar post on the discussion of the episode Common Descent, but does anybody think that the AI that controls the drones might be that of Rush seeing as though
Alt Rush used the chair on Alt Destiny and could have uploaded his consciousness as some sort of AI. As Alt Destiny was heading into a star, Rush could have made the ship time travel and built the drones for some awesome Rush plan

I know it sounds far fetched, but I think that the writers are going to explain the drones and they wouldn't have made Alt Rush do what he did unless they had a plan.

Also,

It seems a little weird that they reintroduced the idea of AI on Destiny and then dropped it, unless they had some use for it in season 3.

What does everybody think?

KEK
April 19th, 2011, 08:15 AM
If those people can exist in our past because of the time travel, then the drones can too. The only paradox would be if the alt-Destiny crew had been in a battle with the drones too, and I'm not sure there is any evidence that they had. I don't remember any line about it in Twin Destinies.

gaguhan.galore
April 19th, 2011, 08:15 AM
As will I be, but until then IT DID NOT HAPPEN!


That you know of. :P

ok, ok. I won't argue for arguing's sake. We'll just have to wait and see.

i think i'll just quote myself.


we'll probably never know now would we

lol for speculation thread

DigiFluid
April 19th, 2011, 08:16 AM
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?80747-Wouldn-t-it-be-fun-if-(spoiler-free-speculation)

zainea13
April 19th, 2011, 08:56 AM
Everyone here is missing the obvious point of why the Novans didn't create the Drones.

The founding Novans knew of the Drones, they knew they were evil and that they attacked Destiny. So, without talking about paradoxes and alternate timelines, etc.

Why would they create a weapon knowing that it would be turned against them? They wouldn't. Hindsight is 20/20 and if you already have it (which only happens with time travel) them you don't make the same mistakes.

Shylodog
April 19th, 2011, 09:09 AM
Everyone here is missing the obvious point of why the Novans didn't create the Drones.

The founding Novans knew of the Drones, they knew they were evil and that they attacked Destiny. So, without talking about paradoxes and alternate timelines, etc.

Why would they create a weapon knowing that it would be turned against them? They wouldn't. Hindsight is 20/20 and if you already have it (which only happens with time travel) them you don't make the same mistakes.

Just like nuclear weapons? Or even wars against each other? Some knowledge can just get lost (or ignored) over the generations, so it's not unthinkable.

KEK
April 19th, 2011, 09:48 AM
Everyone here is missing the obvious point of why the Novans didn't create the Drones.

The founding Novans knew of the Drones, they knew they were evil and that they attacked Destiny. So, without talking about paradoxes and alternate timelines, etc.

Why would they create a weapon knowing that it would be turned against them? They wouldn't. Hindsight is 20/20 and if you already have it (which only happens with time travel) them you don't make the same mistakes.

The founders haven't been around for 2000 years.

zainea13
April 19th, 2011, 11:15 AM
The founders haven't been around for 2000 years.

True, but the people on the settlement did not know the ship when it flew over. If it was of their own creation they most likely would have known.

However, let's say that they were built 1500 years ago, it is possible that they would have then been forgotten in such a lot time. But, Even then, I feel like they were not advanced enough just 500 years after starting civilization, but possibly.

Something that would be remembered 1500 years after though, would be a massive war that required building such weapons of destruction. We are still taught about wars in Rome and such. We know the story of the Trojan Horse, the massive weapon of destruction that it was. And various warships.

So, history should have had some record of Novus's humanity creating such massive weapons.

gaguhan.galore
April 19th, 2011, 11:36 AM
True, but the people on the settlement did not know the ship when it flew over. If it was of their own creation they most likely would have known.
..
So, history should have had some record of Novus's humanity creating such massive weapons.
here:

2. the novus civilization obviously has been colonizing other planets. how long is anyone's guess.
3. one of their offshoots may have progressed much farther technologically while remaining cut off from the rest, deliberately or otherwise (remember the futuran-tanaran split)
and don't forget the first spoiler. the keywords there are "experiment gone wrong". they could have been adaptable machines at first and they did just that. *shrug*

on another note:


Alt Rush used the chair on Alt Destiny and could have uploaded his consciousness as some sort of AI. As Alt Destiny was heading into a star, Rush could have made the ship time travel and built the drones for some awesome Rush planIt seems a little weird that they reintroduced the idea of AI on Destiny and then dropped it, unless they had some use for it in season 3.
What does everybody think?interesting. but with the alt!ship cannibalized there was little likelihood of it time traveling again. AI idea sounds plausible though. although it could have been franklin's. or a franklin/rush agglomeration.

Jedi_Master_Bra'tac
April 19th, 2011, 12:22 PM
But you can't say that. We only met the drones before we KNEW about the paradox. That doesn't mean it hadn't been created yet. It was created 2000 years ago. Round about the time we were nailing a Savior to a cross.

You're looking at it in the terms of as soon as the folks jumped through the gate, a great wave washed over the universe and things had changed. I'm looking at it as if we were born in the very calm wake of the event.

Like I said before, it's a tricksy thing. :)

With the exception of "1969", Stargate does time travel like BTTF/the end of Ocarina of Time (the latter comparison is more accurate, in most cases). The moment you go back in time is the moment you create a new timeline. So the drones existed in a timeline in which Novus didn't as they met the drones before the timeline could have been created.


Yes but we ENCOUNTERED the drones BEFORE that timeline was created. Novus NEVER existed until we tried to dial home, thus the drones wouldnt have existed.

I agree with you, but just to play Devil's Advocate...

We're following the Destiny in the timeline where Novus does exist and has existed for 2000 years. So if the Novians did create the drones it's conceivable that the Destiny we follow encountered them. The only way to test it is to ask Telford whether or not he encountered the drones before. The answer's probably yes though...

tomstone
April 19th, 2011, 01:23 PM
How come that nobody notices that those People apparently had no Tech for Spacetravel besides the Stargate? They did not recognize the Drones and never mentioned Spaceships. They even seemed very impressed by the rustbucket that is Destiny.

They may have been somewhat advanced, but if the Novanians could create Drones that can Travel FTL, they could have come to get their People.

Shylodog
April 19th, 2011, 01:32 PM
How come that nobody notices that those People apparently had no Tech for Spacetravel besides the Stargate? They did not recognize the Drones and never mentioned Spaceships. They even seemed very impressed by the rustbucket that is Destiny.

I noticed it here (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?80069-Common-Descent-(217)-General-Discussion&p=12530613&viewfull=1#post12530613).

tomstone
April 19th, 2011, 01:43 PM
I noticed it here (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?80069-Common-Descent-(217)-General-Discussion&p=12530613&viewfull=1#post12530613).

Sorry, I missed that post. To answer the question of that Post, they simply where to young! They had 2000 Years to reproduce and learn, just about as much as we had and in the end they had to start with a Population of under 100 People. Before they were big enough in Numbers to actually build something useful, hundrets of Years had passed and most of the Advanced knowledge that the Destiny Crew had was gone and needed to be rediscoverd. We made the Jump to Hyperdrive thanks to another Race, discovering it ourself would have taken alot longer and many Geniuses.

Nth Chevron
April 19th, 2011, 03:15 PM
I have a feeling the ships were from Novus, 1 unmanned drone carrier, set to protect the planet, but Novus is coded as being safe and sacred, because the Novans were using the gates so why did they not attack Novus? They can get wherever pretty fast, Brody/Park/Volker/Eli could have figured out a hyperdrive between them and built one to protect the colonies when they came into existence.

I also think the carriers were built upon a premise of the Seed ships, to construct drones as they needed/were destroyed, allowing security from space-borne threats, over time, say 30 years, when Novus cataclysm happened, the Drones lost their primary function and the AI evolved in a bad way, copied itself by taking over Ursini ships computers and then getting drones to manufacture it some more mass or more drones etc etc.

All can add up to the threat they pose today if they encountered technology which could threaten them, their primary mandate could well have become to destroy all tech for self preservation.

There arent multiple carrier ships out there, there is the same carrier ship, copied over and over.

For a machine that needs no sleep, food, feels no fatigue, 30 years is plenty of time.

We've seen the Replicators go WAY further in less time.

N.C

morrismike
April 19th, 2011, 03:15 PM
Everyone here is missing the obvious point of why the Novans didn't create the Drones.

The founding Novans knew of the Drones, they knew they were evil and that they attacked Destiny. So, without talking about paradoxes and alternate timelines, etc.

Why would they create a weapon knowing that it would be turned against them? They wouldn't. Hindsight is 20/20 and if you already have it (which only happens with time travel) them you don't make the same mistakes.

Maybe their experience with drones is what allowed them to invent them?

D Toccs
April 19th, 2011, 05:32 PM
Yes but we ENCOUNTERED the drones BEFORE that timeline was created. Novus NEVER existed until we tried to dial home, thus the drones wouldnt have existed.

The timeline that we have been watching from the start, has always been the one with Novus.

It's like Moebius, the timeline was changed twice, and at the end the timeline "our" characters were from is the final one that included the alternate SG1s in the past.

In the "primary" timeline, the one we have been watching since 1997, there was always an Alt. Weir in Atlantis 10,000 years ago, there was always two Alt. SG1 teams in Egypt 3000 years ago, there was always a Novus 2000 years ago and there was always a Alt. Mitchell and Baal in 1939.

We the audience did not switch timelines with the mid-sun dial, we the audience have always been watching the timeline that resulted from the mid-sun dial.


On topic though, I don't believe that the people of Novus created the drones. The area of space that drones were encountered in was well out of range of the Novus gate.
Also you would think that the Novus people would have at least had some idea what the drones were, when they attacked the settlement and not needed Scott and Wray to spell it out for them.

garhkal
April 19th, 2011, 06:06 PM
But we encountered the drones BEFORE the alternate team travelled back in time. There are two timelines, one with Novus, one without, yet the drones are in both.

Doens't make sense.

Plus if they did make them, why were the peopel there like "WTF???"


Just like nuclear weapons? Or even wars against each other? Some knowledge can just get lost (or ignored) over the generations, so it's not unthinkable.

From what we saw, it didn't look anything like knowledge was lost..

Phenom
April 19th, 2011, 06:10 PM
In anticipation of rebuttle:

http://www.freewebs.com/escyos/Timeline.jpg

Drones existed in both timelines, but Novus only exists in the current timeline.

Thats the beauty about time travel stories.....Since it doesn't actually exist then the person who writes the story writes the rules.

Superhero in Disguise
April 19th, 2011, 11:26 PM
Also you would think that the Novus people would have at least had some idea what the drones were, when they attacked the settlement and not needed Scott and Wray to spell it out for them.

You know I've been seeing a lot of people using this same basic defense for why the drones couldn't have come from Novus but has anyone considered that it's possible that the initial development and creation of the drones was classified and therefore not everyone on the planet would have known about them and that they weren't launched until after the settlers were stranded it has been thirty years after all.

Now granted I don't recall it being said how old the drones were, if it was stated and it turns out they are much older than that feel free to post it and blow my theory out of the water. Now I'm not saying one way or another what I believe to have happened (I'll reserve judgment until TPTB tell us which I hope they do but won't hold my breath) I'm just throwing a theory out there that could explain how the drones could've been created on Novus and the settlers didn't know what they were.

thekillman
April 19th, 2011, 11:59 PM
guys

it's impossible.

why?


simple.


the drones are extaordinarily advanced, but the Novus civilisation wasn't. no "offshoot advancing faster". 30 years ago Novus was advanced to the point of nukes, suggesting an earth-like society. given the knowledge of the crew, this is "earthlike with benefits".

since none of them are actual experts on actual pieces of equipment, hyperdrive technology etc for novus are out of the question.


therefore, the Novians never could've advanced to the point where they could make drones.

let alone build so many of them.

plus that nobody on the colony -nobody- knew what they were, nor did anyone know of any enemy. for all intents and purposes, this patch of space is empty.



lastly, we left drone-occupied space some time ago. Rush and Eli said so.



so please.

Nth Chevron
April 20th, 2011, 03:47 AM
So your saying that no one on Novus, over a period of say 1500 years could have been born with the intellect of Mckay/Carter/Eli/Rush/Perry and advanced their technologies further?

Maybe a one of the scientists scribbled an experimental energy weapon drawing and a descendant perfected it.

Still, one point no one seems to be asking;

What material was used in the generators? Maybe a Naquadah ish mineral was found which gives the drones their powersource?

N.C

gaguhan.galore
April 20th, 2011, 03:59 AM
it's impossible.it's a big universe you know.


the drones are extaordinarily advanced, but the Novus civilisation wasn't. no "offshoot advancing faster". 30 years ago Novus was advanced to the point of nukes, suggesting an earth-like society. given the knowledge of the crew, this is "earthlike with benefits".let's put a bunch of things into perspective with a bunch of analogies: ori and lanteans, vanir and asgard, tau'ri and tollans, tau'ri and every other bunch of transplanted civs in the universe.

since none of them are actual experts on actual pieces of equipment, hyperdrive technology etc for novus are out of the question.and none of the novus founders or their descendants presumably have the brainpower to improve their standards of living. again, 2 millennia is loooong.

therefore, the Novians never could've advanced to the point where they could make drones.

let alone build so many of them.for all we know the drones could've been self-perpetuating machines. a la replicators.


plus that nobody on the colony -nobody- knew what they were, nor did anyone know of any enemy. for all intents and purposes, this patch of space is empty.
nobody normal on earth even knows about stargate command either. or that big hulking battlecruiser in the sky with USAF markings if you look close enough.

lastly, we left drone-occupied space some time ago. Rush and Eli said so. you can take this as literally as you like: "drone space" being space where drones are found. not as some territory of a hueg galactic mechanical empire.

so please. hissy fits. funny.

Spidey3121
April 20th, 2011, 10:07 AM
Less about where they come from, but how did they track us or rather how is it that they didn't catch up to us until now? We've used the Stargate in previous episodes and they were MIA. Also, they were waiting for us when we dropped out of FTL... so is the Stargate truly what's keeping them on our trail?

Also while i think it would be possible for our descendants to develop such technologies over a span of 2,000 years i would think that, if their purpose is to seek out and destroy alien technology as was hypothesized then why would it attack either the Destiny or the Stargate. It wouldn't be "our" technology per say but it's technology we'd be familiar with. Of course as someone stated it's possible it's developed it's own "corrupt" A.I. over time.

As for the timelines - we'll i'd be of the belief that we would have encountered the drones before we went back in time (even if we invented them; however i would mark this as evidence we didn't). I mean it depends how you look at it but even though we hadn't gone back in time yet we were predestined to, or w/e (much like "1969"). Therefor the other civilization had been thriving for near 2,000 years before we'd actually go back in time to found them. It make not make much sense but time travel really does, no matter how you choose to look at it...

KEK
April 20th, 2011, 10:24 AM
It suggests an artificial intelligence. They must be actively looking for the crew not, whereas they were dormant before their first encounter.

navyguy3185
April 20th, 2011, 10:46 AM
There are two types of time travel theories.
There is the grandfather paradox: The paradox is this: suppose a man traveled back in time and killed his biological grandfather before the latter met the traveler's grandmother. As a result, one of the traveler's parents (and by extension the traveler himself) would never have been conceived. This would imply that he could not have traveled back in time after all, which means the grandfather would still be alive, and the traveler would have been conceived allowing him to travel back in time and kill his grandfather. Thus each possibility seems to imply its own negation, a type of logical paradox.
and the bootstrap paradox: The bootstrap paradox is a paradox of time travel in which information or objects can exist without having been created. After information or an object is sent back in time, it is recovered in the present and becomes the very object/information that was initially brought back in time in the first place. Numerous science fiction stories are based on this paradox, which has also been the subject of serious physics articles.
I believe we have a "bootstrap paradox" here. History has been "pre-written". Destiny ALWAYS got thrust back in time, and Alt Rush ALWAYS warned Destiny about gating with the sun. As far as the drones...The original Novans may not have created the drones, for the knew they would become a danger....but technology grew over 2000 years, as well as conflict....The drones could have been created by either faction centuries after Destiny's crew died.
Somebody said the Novans were like "what are they" when the drones showed up, yes, but who said that. One of the two Novans they met at the gate who was not born on Nova. Maybe the drones were such a failure the elders didn't ever tell their children....or The drones were created sometime after Destiny's crew died and BEFORE the current Novans were born....many possibilities...but the Novan's confusion about the drones doesn't rule out that their ancestors could have created them....

Nth Chevron
April 20th, 2011, 12:32 PM
IF the drones WERENT created by Novus then i think its a good reason for them not having spaceborne tech. Even though it doesnt make sense that Novus was using its Stargate and had no encounters from the drones.

Which, leads to my belief that the Novans DID create them, either by design or accident, but if thats the case then why do they attack Destiny? You would think they would mark Destiny off ass safe and ally, the corrupt AI idea does answer this but we need to know their beginnings.

Still, at least we know who might the blockaders :)

N.C

Trinary
April 20th, 2011, 01:25 PM
The timeline started making no sense to me. When the second destiny didn't dial the stargate inside the star, shouldn't they break free from the alternate timeline?

So, they shouldn't encounter with the Novusians colony or the planet with civilization from their alternate decedents. This type of timelines seem like a copy of Lost series or JJ Abrams Star Trek which is seem flawed by logic.

Suppose the right timeline were once they enter the star without dialing the gate, Alt Rush and Alt Destiny should be disappeared and Telford still with them. No spare parts salvaging from the alt destiny.

There should be an anomaly within the star where the point gate should be dialing. The anomaly in the star should logically separate both joined timeline figures and send them into their own timeline.

Shylodog
April 20th, 2011, 01:54 PM
As was stated in another thread (or earlier in this one), this would not be a "Grandfather Paradox", it would be a "Bootstrap Paradox".

Puddle-Jumper
April 20th, 2011, 01:56 PM
this got me thinking.

drones = novan experiment from the distant past gone wrong.
1. 2000 years is a long time.
2. the novus civilization obviously has been colonizing other planets. how long is anyone's guess.
3. one of their offshoots may have progressed much farther technologically while remaining cut off from the rest, deliberately or otherwise (remember the futuran-tanaran split)
4. drone interiors look derived from ancient-y designs.
5. the ursini never knew who made them, they merely found the drones sleeping. presumably after destroying their own creators.
we'll probably never know now would we

I had this idea as soon as it was mentioned that the Novans were technologically advanced.. however as much as I like the symmetry.. it doesn't seem to fit that the Novans would have built technology this malicious.. and even if it were an offshoot then surely when they were examining the drone in that ep they would have noticed something, some writing in english, or some indication that it came from humans..

Shylodog
April 20th, 2011, 02:11 PM
I had this idea as soon as it was mentioned that the Novans were technologically advanced.. however as much as I like the symmetry.. it doesn't seem to fit that the Novans would have built technology this malicious.. and even if it were an offshoot then surely when they were examining the drone in that ep they would have noticed something, some writing in english, or some indication that it came from humans..

I made a comment about this earlier. We wouldn't have known that the tech the Tolans carried was human in origin. And I'd be willing to bet that the Novan society is not Capitalist (just a guess, we really have no idea) so why would they care to denote manufacturer or anything else on their tech?

I'm not hardlined that the drones ARE from Novus, but I can't say they aren't either.

Kaiphantom
April 20th, 2011, 03:43 PM
No, the drones weren't made on Novis. As I have said before, Rush and Eli would have recognized the coding on the drone as being remarkable "human" looking instead of alien. I took several years in a CIS program at college, which included various programming languages like Fortran, COBOL, Visual basic, C and C+, etc. While all of them are different, there are a lot of similarities; most notably, that coding would be done in English... you know, the language they were speaking. If I hacked into an unknown system and saw Fortran, I'd instantly know it to be the result of humans.

And a civilization that could build those drone command ships, would have other ships as well. I do find it interesting that the people didn't mention if Novis had ships or not. With access to Stargates, they might not have felt they needed it. And unless the information to build hyperdrives was passed down or included on Kinos or something, they might not have even had the knowledge to develop it.

Nth Chevron
April 20th, 2011, 04:01 PM
Unless in 2000 years something crazy happened and they invented their own programming language that wasnt English in nature.

Remember, AI intelligent virus that infected the Daedalous in SGA 2x02 wasnt immediately recognizable as Wraith till Mckay ran it through a translator.

It could have been different enough to not show immediately as Rush and Eli didnt have very long looking at it as they were under attack from the 2nd DC at the time.

Or it could have been encoded in a way as not to be shown as English?

N.C

erotavlas
April 20th, 2011, 04:24 PM
First of all I don't think the Drones were created by the Novus civilization, for one reason - the drones are way too advanced for a planetary war (assuming thats the reason people think the Novans created them ). Even if there two sides on Novus had political differences and were at war, why would either of them create something so advanced just to attack a neighboring country on the same planet. You don't need such advanced artificial intelligence for that and you certainly don't need hyperspace capability to reach your adversary.

Shylodog
April 20th, 2011, 04:44 PM
No, the drones weren't made on Novis. As I have said before, Rush and Eli would have recognized the coding on the drone as being remarkable "human" looking instead of alien. I took several years in a CIS program at college, which included various programming languages like Fortran, COBOL, Visual basic, C and C+, etc. While all of them are different, there are a lot of similarities; most notably, that coding would be done in English... you know, the language they were speaking. If I hacked into an unknown system and saw Fortran, I'd instantly know it to be the result of humans.

This is one of the silliest things I've seen yet. You don't think - in 2000 years... or even 200 years - that a civilization could figure out a better way of coding hardware and software without using English as the basis? Seriously?

And let me be clear: the more I watch and the more the argument is made, I myself don't think they made them. But if the writers decide to take it in that direction, again, I'm not opposed to it either.

Nth Chevron
April 20th, 2011, 05:38 PM
Its not silly as they would have based their coding language on ours given to them by the four top brains. Just silly that there was no thought of it evolving over the time it took us to supposedly nail a guy to a piece of wood then flying through space shooting blue beams of death.

N.C

Shylodog
April 20th, 2011, 05:41 PM
We don't even know if they use the English alphabet, let alone if their science evolved above base 10 mathematics to base 8. ;)

walterIsTheMan
April 20th, 2011, 06:21 PM
I had this same thought but my biggest doubt about it is the documentation of the original crew. We know they left a lot of information behind, enough to found civilizations and religions. Surely they left behind a record of what they experienced on Destiny, including the drones. So one day if some Novan scientist was building a drone he might have said, "hey wait isn't this that thing the ancestors warned us about?"

Kaiphantom
April 20th, 2011, 07:40 PM
Its not silly as they would have based their coding language on ours given to them by the four top brains. Just silly that there was no thought of it evolving over the time it took us to supposedly nail a guy to a piece of wood then flying through space shooting blue beams of death.

N.C

Then you don't know computer code. Ultimately, our computer code is based off 1's and 0's, on or off, an open gate or a closed gate. The next step above that is assembly language. Then the next step above that is all the other languages. Essentially, a programming language is merely the easiest way for us to turn English instructions into the binary code the computer needs in order to understand.

By it's very nature, a computer language is based off the spoken language. If/Then/Else statements, variables, GOTO statements, parenthesis, brackets, parameters etc. Depending on the specific language, there is more or less controls you can use.

Here's a fun experiment you can use to verify for yourself. Go into your folders on your computer, say your windows folders, or other programs. Odds are, you'll see some text files among the others. Open them up. A lot of times, they are .bin or config files that have English in them, and you can adjust the program by simply deleting and typing in new variables. Since they speak English, there would be files in the drone's systems that would have been in clear English.

2000 years may have gone by, but whether you like it or not, the language remained relatively similar. True, it might be very probably, but it is possible. Therefore, we have to accept it as true.

garhkal
April 20th, 2011, 08:41 PM
IF the drones WERENT created by Novus then i think its a good reason for them not having spaceborne tech. Even though it doesnt make sense that Novus was using its Stargate and had no encounters from the drones.

Very true, and if they did have space tech, why didn't they use THAT to get away from what was supposedly a 'detected rogue black hole'?




I had this same thought but my biggest doubt about it is the documentation of the original crew. We know they left a lot of information behind, enough to found civilizations and religions. Surely they left behind a record of what they experienced on Destiny, including the drones. So one day if some Novan scientist was building a drone he might have said, "hey wait isn't this that thing the ancestors warned us about?"



Too true.. especially since Eli most likley took his laptop with him, which we know he uses to back up all the kino footage..

thekillman
April 20th, 2011, 11:57 PM
Very true, and if they did have space tech, why didn't they use THAT to get away from what was supposedly a 'detected rogue black hole'?

because space travel is 3000x less efficient than gate travel?


let's put a bunch of things into perspective with a bunch of analogies: ori and lanteans, vanir and asgard, tau'ri and tollans, tau'ri and every other bunch of transplanted civs in the universe.

ahem.
millions of years difference
thousands of years difference
the tollan are 1000 years ahead of us (AHEAD)
the rest never got to advance.

Novus CAN advance beyond earth, it would be stupid if they weren't.


but there is a more than humongous gap between building a hyperdrive and building the Drones, which are far superior technology.


the Drones have firepower beyond what the Goauld have, more like Wraith level or even beyond that.

the goauld had 5000+ years plus a lot of ancient tech to reverse engineer.

the Novans would've needed literally thousands of years more to reach a level of inertialess drives plus the power of the energy weapon.


yes they could've built a drone. but if that technology ever were to attack Destiny, they would be easily defeated. plus they wouldn't be able to defeat destiny since they wouldn't pack enough punch.


it's not about building a drone. it's about building a drone capable of doing what these drones do. the last time anyone destroyed a stargate like that, it was an Lantean knockoff.

caribsci
April 21st, 2011, 11:02 AM
if a civilisation is starting from scratch(say all their books and records have been destroyed)then they would progress more slowly ...but lets look at the hologram room in Atlantis.....it contained knowledge of the lanteans and programmed to teach kids.........i say all of this to say..........if Eli lived to be say 70 ....most likely he would be teaching the kids from an early age about science stuff .......same with the military ppl like scott and greer......they would be teaching the art of war from an early age so that future generations would be able to defend themselves in the unlikely event of attacks......I;m trying to remember that SG1 episode where Jack went and the kids had advanced knowledge ...

Shylodog
April 21st, 2011, 11:56 AM
if a civilisation is starting from scratch(say all their books and records have been destroyed)then they would progress more slowly ...but lets look at the hologram room in Atlantis.....it contained knowledge of the lanteans and programmed to teach kids.........i say all of this to say..........if Eli lived to be say 70 ....most likely he would be teaching the kids from an early age about science stuff .......same with the military ppl like scott and greer......they would be teaching the art of war from an early age so that future generations would be able to defend themselves in the unlikely event of attacks......I;m trying to remember that SG1 episode where Jack went and the kids had advanced knowledge ...

Season 3, Episode 5: Learning Curve