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GateWorld
April 18th, 2011, 07:49 AM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/sanctuary/s3/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/carentan-160x120.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">SANCTUARY SEASON THREE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/sanctuary/s3/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">CARENTAN</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 318</FONT>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0;">The Sanctuary receives reports of unexplained disappearances in Carentan in the Normandy region of France and sets off to investigate the strange occurrences. <I>(SPACE)</I></DIV>
<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/sanctuary/s3/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Skydiver
June 6th, 2011, 08:05 PM
it was a pretty good episode. Frank Cromwell's actor again ended up on the wrong side of a time bubble, an expanding one at that.

i saw a lot of set reuse, which makes sense, get the most bang for your buck.

in many ways, it was Unending, just with a bigger group and not on a space ship...nowhere near the action of last week's, but plenty of emotional beats, but i'm sure it'll also seem slow because of it.

I do think this'll make more sense once we see the other episodes because I know - especially based on the promos for next week - adam is back and he's frakking with time

great kate and declan moments and helen/wills shippers will have a blast with it.

KayLyne
June 6th, 2011, 08:11 PM
It was great to see the return of Ravi. I liked him in the ‘Kali’ trilogy, and was hoping to see more of him. And of course, Declan. I was actually hoping that he would have been the one to go with Helen into the unknown. Why does it always have to be Will that’s with Helen in these types of things? Why not Helen & Declan or Helen & Kate for this one? That continues to annoy me. Thankfully, it worked out pretty nicely to have Declan and Kate working the part of the rescue team. And my face lit up when I noticed Barclay Hope arrive on screen. My first thought was – “hey, that’s Colonel Pendergast!!” I love it when the Sanctuary world morphs with SG-1. I’m still holding out hope for them to get Teryl Rothery for a recurring character sometime soon.

Speaking of SG-1 connections – did anyone else laugh at the “thermostat from a toaster” comment and wonder if toaster parts were going to save the day again for an Amanda Tapping character? And the whole "Bubble" thing made me think of "revisions". All that was missing was Chris Heyerdahl with long hair (and not as Biggie!!)

I love how they keep Helen Magnus a bit irreverent with her “bastard”, “Cheeky Bugger” and “Bloody Hell” comments.

Helen looked absolutely wonderful in this episode. From the turtle neck & leather jacket to her look of exhaustion & frustration as the days went on – she still looked radiant. Totally wasn’t expecting Helen to be the one to see first in the hospital bed. I was bummed that they killed off Ravi. Would they PLEASE stop killing off their great returning characters?

What is it with Will and the increasing amount of potential love interests? It’s become annoying.

That makes two incredible back-to-back episodes. This show continues to amaze me.

Mandysg1
June 6th, 2011, 08:26 PM
I really liked this one, I wasn't sure from the promos if I would, but they put it together really well. Was laughing at first at the time diation field, thinking of Unending....but I liked this one ;) The character interactions were also done very well, I liked seeing Helen get pissy at Will, yes she does lose her temper and gets frustrated...makes her a well rounded character :)

Ravi was used perfectly in this episode, we got to see what was happening in the field through what was happening to him, not just physically but emotionally as well. I did wonder what would happen to people born in the field, and they let us know, and how they dealt with the horrendous facts :(

Ah, Will got another girlfriend (was singing 'Just a gigalo' on the eppy thread ;) )

The ending was also excellent in my opinion, you get the townspeople's realistic reaction to finding the answer, and it meaning thier deaths :s I don't think many people would just 'lie down' and accept they were going to be killed.

All in all a very good episode :)

wurlitzer153
June 6th, 2011, 08:33 PM
Great episode.

People already mentioned several SG eps. they were reminded of: Unending for time dilation and Revisions for the dome over the village. I'd also mention SGA's "Epiphany" which was also a very similar idea. But done much better...

Why did they kill off Ravi and Will's girlfriend???

KayLyne
June 6th, 2011, 08:36 PM
Why did they kill off Ravi and Will's girlfriend???
It made me think that they're putting the Sam Carter "Black Widow" curse on Will.:p

Mandysg1
June 6th, 2011, 08:42 PM
Great episode.

People already mentioned several SG eps. they were reminded of: Unending for time dilation and Revisions for the dome over the village. I'd also mention SGA's "Epiphany" which was also a very similar idea. But done much better...

Why did they kill off Ravi and Will's girlfriend???

Anyone born in the time dialation field would disappear/die, and Ravi knew his family would die when the problem was fixed, probably took the bullet meant for Will, b/c he'd rather die with his family than let Will or Helen die. (Just my guess ;) )

KayLyne
June 6th, 2011, 09:15 PM
it was a pretty good episode. Frank Cromwell's actor again ended up on the wrong side of a time bubble, an expanding one at that.
are you sure you don't mean Colonel Pendergast? Barclay Hope was the head military guy. I don't remember seeing Marshall Teague.

Rocky89
June 6th, 2011, 09:39 PM
Wow, what a strong episode. :D

I like how it followed the Normandy story, and how it got started off with them concern for Ravi. :) If Henry had been in it, it'd be even better. ;) I like how each member had an important part to play in the episode, and I love how Declan was involved. :) I knew I knew the colonel dude looked familiar, but I didn't know he was from SG-1. :p

Anyway, I love how they met old Ravi and when Helen brought up the "time dilation" thing and right away I thought of Sam from Unending. :p I thought it was cool how much time passed in the field, and how Will brought up that point to Helen that she's immortal, and he's not, and I loved how they gave each other shoulder rubs. :) OMG! And I love so much how Ravi made Helen laugh, it was so sweet and cute. :p One thing we must see more of is Kate and Declan working together, they make a good team, and I loved how cute they were together. :p Several things in this episode reminded me of SG-1 and Sam, but it was still Sanctuary, and there's still no bleed in to Stargate or Sam. :) Oh, and I kept thinking of 100 Days when watching the ep. :p

The science behind the episode was very smart, and I like how they had to make a choice to sacrifice the people of the village in order to save the Earth, and we finally know who Helen was holding hands with while looking at the sunset. :p I was sad to see Ravi die, I liked him, and I wanted him to stay around. :( But the ending, oh, man, the ending was so suspenseful and I got a little chill while Helen was talking and the music added to the tone of the scene. ;) Overall it was a brilliant episode, great acting and effects, and this episode is a winner for me. ;)

Edit: I forgot, I laughed at Helen's "Cheeky bugger" line. :p Made me think of Miss Chelle right away. :p

Chelle DB
June 7th, 2011, 02:04 AM
Edit: I forgot, I laughed at Helen's "Cheeky bugger" line. :p Made me think of Miss Chelle right away. :p
Damn it!! And I thought that was my line...well Amanda Tapping...Helen has cheeky monkey...I've got dibs on cheeky bugger!! :P Sheesh...and I dropped the cheeky monkey line with my kids coz I didn't want to sound like Helen Magnus...so now Helen's sounding like me?? I just can't win. :P

AutumnDream
June 7th, 2011, 03:16 AM
This is one of the best episodes they've ever done. The show has made great strides since its inception. Really too bad Scifi is trying to kill it.

Inquisitor
June 7th, 2011, 03:24 AM
I found this was an excellent episode, but one thing irked me a little. I found the girl quite hypocritical. She argued they didn't have the right to kill all of those people, but she has the right to kill Will/Ravi? She was trying to protect the group, sure, but it's not ok to try to protect the world?

kes
June 7th, 2011, 03:37 AM
I found this was an excellent episode, but one thing irked me a little. I found the girl quite hypocritical. She argued they didn't have the right to kill all of those people, but she has the right to kill Will/Ravi? She was trying to protect the group, sure, but it's not ok to try to protect the world?
Survival instinct.

Skydiver
June 7th, 2011, 04:24 AM
are you sure you don't mean Colonel Pendergast? Barclay Hope was the head military guy. I don't remember seeing Marshall Teague.

yeah, oops. they looked alike :) (buzz cut military guy)

Skydiver
June 7th, 2011, 04:28 AM
I do agree, it would be nice to break up the endless magnus/will partnership. I want to see some of the others interacting with her...declan would have been great and then had Will being mister manic 'gotta fix this' rather than being stuck..
We'd finally get a chance to see what makes Declan tick

...and especially given next week's promo



yet another helen and will have a singular adventure

Im getting kinda tired of the persistent pairing. Just cause Will is the co-star of the show doesn't mean he MUST be paired with Helen all the time, does it? I mean, on SG1, whether you're into the jack/Daniel co-stars, or jack/Sam co-stars/leading male/leading lady, it was never exclusively one set paired up, they scrambled it around.

Sanctuary needs to do that. It's getting predictable that it'll be Helen/will in trouble and the only unknown is whether or not the others get the B story or if there isn't one.

meredithchandler73
June 7th, 2011, 06:01 AM
Great episode! Many random thoughts:
--Wonderful story! Right from the beginning, the mystery of why people have been disappearing - including Ravi - totally sucked me in.
--Interesting to think that someone or several someones believed Helen Magnus had no business being at Carenten. It doesn't seem like that military guy was acting totally on his own. There was the media block and no agencies were replying to Helen or Will's inquiries. Why would people think this was "above her pay grade"? I don't quite get it.
--"Cheeky bugger!" LOVE Magnus!!!!
--I'd love to see other pairings besides Helen/Will, too.
--Not really happy that they killed off Ravi. But better him than Declan. I'll be seriously pissed if they ever kill him off.
--ANOTHER love interest for Will?!?!? Why do we never see any of the relationships of the woman who has lived four times longer than him?!?!
--Older Ravi was very sweet. Liked his scenes a lot.
--Like others, I got "Unending" and "Revisions" vibes from the episode - but in a good way. It still definitely had its own Sanctuary spin.
--I couldn't remember the character name or episode he was in (military leader) but I knew I had seen him on SG-1. I'm with the person who still holds out hope for seeing Teryl Rothery on this show!!!
--Helen always looks so amazing. Even exhausted and working too hard, she looks wonderful!
--Can't wait until the mystery of Carenten is revealed!!!

samcartersg1
June 7th, 2011, 06:04 AM
it was a pretty good episode. Frank Cromwell's actor again ended up on the wrong side of a time bubble, an expanding one at that.



Wasn't Frank Cromwell played by a different actor. I thought this guy played Colonel Pendergast, the commander of the Prometheus


Oops - just read the other posts and saw someone answered this :)

Mandysg1
June 7th, 2011, 07:04 AM
A question came to mind about the time dilation field, if it's based on Adam's experiments, would Helen and Will have radiation poisoning like Helen had before?

RealmOfX
June 7th, 2011, 07:11 AM
A question came to mind about the time dilation field, if it's based on Adam's experiments, would Helen and Will have radiation poisoning like Helen had before?

Wasn't the radiation from travelling through the rift though? Not just being inside the field.

kes
June 7th, 2011, 07:38 AM
They say in the ep there's no radiation. I think lol

lastrequest
June 7th, 2011, 08:23 AM
It made me think that they're putting the Sam Carter "Black Widow" curse on Will.:p

I thought that too :p Abby's days are numbered :lol:

On the subject of Will though - it does irk me a little that he seems to be constantly attracting new gfs - I mean, yes, he's a good looking bloke :p but I would have liked to maybe see more of his interactions with Helen/Ravi... and a little more about him realising they may not figure it out in his life time.


I do agree, it would be nice to break up the endless magnus/will partnership. I want to see some of the others interacting with her...declan would have been great and then had Will being mister manic 'gotta fix this' rather than being stuck..
We'd finally get a chance to see what makes Declan tick

...and especially given next week's promo



yet another helen and will have a singular adventure

Im getting kinda tired of the persistent pairing. Just cause Will is the co-star of the show doesn't mean he MUST be paired with Helen all the time, does it? I mean, on SG1, whether you're into the jack/Daniel co-stars, or jack/Sam co-stars/leading male/leading lady, it was never exclusively one set paired up, they scrambled it around.

Sanctuary needs to do that. It's getting predictable that it'll be Helen/will in trouble and the only unknown is whether or not the others get the B story or if there isn't one.
I think the Helen/Will pairing was logical for this episode - just with Helen's explanation that they don't want to lose another sanctuary head (so Declan stays behind), and Will is supposed to be her protege... so I thought it made sense that she took him with her.

What with the Henry/loveinterest Will/Abby episode not so long back... and then the delicious Helen/Nikola pairing in Awakening... And ofc the five in normandy... I think they're mixing it up enough.

Just the Helen/Will episodes have seemed to get bunched together near the end of the season maybe? (I can't think of another S3 eppy up until this point where they've been paired off? I'm sure there has been one... but not recently?)

On the whole, really enjoyed this episode. Was a little upset about Ravi, but then it made sense as someone else has said above he maybe sacrificed himself because he knew he was losing his family...

Rocky89
June 7th, 2011, 09:43 AM
Damn it!! And I thought that was my line...well Amanda Tapping...Helen has cheeky monkey...I've got dibs on cheeky bugger!! :P Sheesh...and I dropped the cheeky monkey line with my kids coz I didn't want to sound like Helen Magnus...so now Helen's sounding like me?? I just can't win. :P

:lol: Can't wait to see what Helen comes up with next. :p

Hey, little question, y'all. If Ravi had lived, and returned to normal time with Helen and Will, would he have returned to the age he was when he entered the field? I know that may sound dumb, but... hey. :p

LadyGalaxyJ
June 7th, 2011, 09:48 AM
I thought the episode was great! I loved it from start to finish. Sure, Normandy was more action-filled and had The Five, but this was a really good one for the team and I think everyone was used wisely. ;) I'm starting to miss Henry though. I hope they bring him back soon.


And of course, Declan. I was actually hoping that he would have been the one to go with Helen into the unknown. Why does it always have to be Will that’s with Helen in these types of things? Why not Helen & Declan or Helen & Kate for this one? That continues to annoy me.
As someone already said, they didn't want to lose another Sanctuary head, so Declan was a no go. But I don't understand why it couldn't have been Helen & Kate. In fact, I think it should have. Will is the second for the Old City Sanctuary. If both Helen and him go missing, who's going to take over? Logically, I think we should have had Helen and Kate go and Will stay with Declan. But at last, Declan and Kate made a great team, so it didn't really bug me for this episode. Plus, it's been a while since we had a Helen/Will episode.

I'm not all that concerned about next week. We've known for a while it was the Helen/Will bottle show of the season, but from the promo, there seems to be Abby and John in there. So, hopefuly, there will be enough breaks with Abby and John for it not to feel solely Helen/Will. ;)


Helen looked absolutely wonderful in this episode. From the turtle neck & leather jacket to her look of exhaustion & frustration as the days went on – she still looked radiant.
AGREED. :D


The ending was also excellent in my opinion, you get the townspeople's realistic reaction to finding the answer, and it meaning thier deaths :s I don't think many people would just 'lie down' and accept they were going to be killed.
Yep. I liked the ending too. Honestly, I was expecting them to find a solution to save everyone, but when I looked at the time (and found out there was like 10 minutes to go), I realised they wouldn't. Yet another thing Helen has to live with. Knowing she killed thousands of people. I was kind of hoping for a scene between Helen and Will and him asking "How do you do it?" Because during her her life, Magnus has seen people die and killed many others. I think this is Will's first experience of how difficult their work is... Oh well, that's what fanfic is for, right? ;)


It made me think that they're putting the Sam Carter "Black Widow" curse on Will.:p
I thought that too! :P Poor Will.
Although... S4I know that Abby's coming back in S4, so she's not going ot die anytime soon. ;P

Pssst! Am I the only one who liked Josi better than Abby?


--ANOTHER love interest for Will?!?!? Why do we never see any of the relationships of the woman who has lived four times longer than him?!?!
THIS. :o ;)


On the subject of Will though - it does irk me a little that he seems to be constantly attracting new gfs - I mean, yes, he's a good looking bloke :p but I would have liked to maybe see more of his interactions with Helen/Ravi... and a little more about him realising they may not figure it out in his life time.
I was waiting for the "You're immortal!" line for the whole episode. I knew it was coming. I thought it was too short. I would have liked to see more of how it affected Helen, knowing she would outlive again so many people, and maybe be the sole survivor of this because of her longevity.

LadyGalaxyJ
June 7th, 2011, 09:50 AM
Hey, little question, y'all. If Ravi had lived, and returned to normal time with Helen and Will, would he have returned to the age he was when he entered the field? I know that may sound dumb, but... hey. :p
So not dumb! I asked myself the same thing!

But I have no answer for you. :P

KayLyne
June 7th, 2011, 11:09 AM
Hey, little question, y'all. If Ravi had lived, and returned to normal time with Helen and Will, would he have returned to the age he was when he entered the field? I know that may sound dumb, but... hey. :p
Well, if we're staying with the similarities to "Unending", then Ravi would have stayed his old age, just like Teal'c did - which seems to be the most logical reasoning.

This would also age Will almost a year. I wonder if they'll give him two birthdays per year now?! And Helen would need at least 3 birthdays - considering her extra time in Adam Worth's time rifting. :lol:

majorsal
June 7th, 2011, 01:43 PM
hmm, not sure i really 'like' this episode. i didn't really last night, but with some eps this season, when i rewatch it the next day, i like it more.

but this reminded me *way* too much of sg1's 'unending', and i really didn't like that miserable ep. okay, 'carentan' doesn't even come close to that 'unending' misery. :p

but still... i hated that they were stuck, from their perspectives, in that crappo bubble for an entire year. for helen, this isn't even a drop in the bucket, but for wil, a year of his life was wasted (and not even going to go into the horribleness for those poor ppl being stuck in it for years). yeah, this village wasn't the worst place to be stuck in, but still...

i just didn't like the idea of this storyline.

i also think that splitting the time between helen/wil to kate/declan took some of the powerfulness away from the tragedy of what was really happening for helen, wil, and the ppl there. but maybe that's a good thing for me, b/c i didn't like them being stuck there to begin with. :p


a few notes:

i wonder if when ravi said, 'i wanted to see the look on your face when i cracked this mother' was an ad-lib? amanda's reaction was too spontaneous to make me think it was part of the script :p

*lovely* scene between helen and ravi, where they're standing there watching the sunset. what ravi says is very poignant, and amanda's acting right there was heartfelt. when he said he didn't hate her, and when he said he was ready... those little touches amanda brings to her acting get me every single time.

that girl, that liked wil... at least this actress can act. :p AND, i didn't blame her for being so ticked off! fair comment she made at the end, where she said to helen and wil that who were they to decide who lives and dies. i'm sure the girl understood what was really at stake, but still...

was the guy that ran the camp the same actor that played the ship commander that was murdered in front of sam in one of the season 10 eps?

when helen asked ravi if he ever thought of giving up... do you think she meant giving up the fight for getting out of the time bubble, or giving up just doing it all? if it's the latter, this might be setting up helen just being bone tired of fighting the good fight.

poor, poor ravi. :(


so basically, even though it was a well done episode, i didn't really enjoy it all that much. the sticking point is helen and wil wasting a year of their lives in that bubble.

majorsal
June 7th, 2011, 01:47 PM
Helen looked absolutely wonderful in this episode. From the turtle neck & leather jacket to her look of exhaustion & frustration as the days went on – she still looked radiant. Totally wasn’t expecting Helen to be the one to see first in the hospital bed. I was bummed that they killed off Ravi. Would they PLEASE stop killing off their great returning characters?



why? :p

majorsal
June 7th, 2011, 01:50 PM
Anyone born in the time dialation field would disappear/die, and Ravi knew his family would die when the problem was fixed, probably took the bullet meant for Will, b/c he'd rather die with his family than let Will or Helen die. (Just my guess ;) )

that's what i forgot to comment on in my review. if i were ravi, i'd have rather stayed and been with my family when they died.

okay, i know they'd just cease to exist, but i'd rather be with them then... and i don't think i'd want to go on living without them after that. (((ravi))) :(

i think he was better off dying.

KayLyne
June 7th, 2011, 04:06 PM
why? :p
I was only surprised because I saw the bullet going through Ravi covering Will, and didn't think Helen was in the way. It was, however, a pleasant surprise to see her peaceful sleeping face again.;)

Kilgharrah
June 7th, 2011, 04:48 PM
First, I think it was good.
Second, here are my comments and questions.
1- I knew Ravi would die at the end. The change of the actor made it obvious. Maybe he didn't want to do this role anymore. I figured it out when I first saw that new actor playing Ravi.
2- I felt Will was useless in this episode. I liked that acutally. 2 episodes with less or no Will after all the attention he had in those terrible 3 episodes.
3- Finally we saw some more of Declan.
4- Where the **** is henry???? These are too many episodes without him.
5- That was a good way to get Biggie in the episode and it doesn't look forced like Will's.
6- I wished that bullet would have killed Will instead. I can't take it anymore. He's so annoying.
7- Why were they at the hospital in the end???? It was Ravi that was shot.
8- That girl from the dome is a very good actress. She managed to make me hate her once she became against them.
9- Magnus was the star of this episode just like she used to be before Will started to get in the picture. That woman is amazing and so is AT.


And my face lit up when I noticed Barclay Hope arrive on screen. My first thought was – “hey, that’s Colonel Pendergast!!” I love it when the Sanctuary world morphs with SG-1. I’m still holding out hope for them to get Teryl Rothery for a recurring character sometime soon.
I knew I saw him somewhere. Just couldn't remember. It's been sometime since I watched SG1

majorsal
June 7th, 2011, 05:13 PM
I was only surprised because I saw the bullet going through Ravi covering Will, and didn't think Helen was in the way. It was, however, a pleasant surprise to see her peaceful sleeping face again.;)

'why' were they in the hospital anyways? :p

Booklover
June 7th, 2011, 05:15 PM
Overall, I enjoyed the episode. What I liked best was the fact that we got to see a lot more of Declan then we usually do. I really like his character. I loved the part where he and Kate took down the two soldiers at the checkpoint.

And also, like others said, the scene towards the end with Ravi and Magnus staring at the sunset was terrific.

Not sure I'm really looking forward to next week's episode, based on the previews. More of Magnus/Will in peril. Why not some of the others in peril instead?

Dinoman
June 7th, 2011, 05:25 PM
As someone already said, they didn't want to lose another Sanctuary head, so Declan was a no go. But I don't understand why it couldn't have been Helen & Kate. In fact, I think it should have. Will is the second for the Old City Sanctuary. If both Helen and him go missing, who's going to take over? Logically, I think we should have had Helen and Kate go and Will stay with Declan. But at last, Declan and Kate made a great team, so it didn't really bug me for this episode. Plus, it's been a while since we had a Helen/Will episode.

If Kate went with Helen and Will left behind w/Declan, I don't think Will could do the trick that Kate did: dismantle the missle head and send it to the time bubble in a no-man truck. :)

KayLyne
June 7th, 2011, 05:41 PM
'why' were they in the hospital anyways? :p
uh... so we could see Helen's peacefully sleeping face again?! :D

Other than her being totally exhausted, I have no clue. I'm going to take a guess & say that in the 200+ (or is it 300+?) days they were stuck there, she didn't take much time for sleeping. Maybe THAT'S the key to her longevity. Too much sleep ages you? If that's the case, I should be dead by now! :p

Gate Ranger
June 7th, 2011, 06:20 PM
Really good eppy but for....

Irked that they killed of Ravi, really liked him as a recuring character. :mad:

Kinda getting tired of Helen/Will in danger.

But otherwise, very good. ;)

Ian-S
June 7th, 2011, 06:21 PM
uh... so we could see Helen's peacefully sleeping face again?! :D

Other than her being totally exhausted, I have no clue. I'm going to take a guess & say that in the 200+ (or is it 300+?) days they were stuck there, she didn't take much time for sleeping. Maybe THAT'S the key to her longevity. Too much sleep ages you? If that's the case, I should be dead by now! :p


didn't Will say something about them being found unconscious? I guess that when the field was switched off, it knocked them out briefly like it did when they first entered.

parsifal
June 7th, 2011, 06:22 PM
'why' were they in the hospital anyways? :p

Entering the dome knocked them out. I'd imagine the collapse of the dome was also a shock.

LadyGalaxyJ
June 7th, 2011, 06:23 PM
If Kate went with Helen and Will left behind w/Declan, I don't think Will could do the trick that Kate did: dismantle the missle head and send it to the time bubble in a no-man truck. :)
Oh I know that! If Will had stayed behind, Magnus and Kate would probaly have been stuck in the dome. ;) :P But still, I want Magnus paired with Kate at one point. I really like these two together. Because their backgrounds are so different, they exchanges are always so great.


uh... so we could see Helen's peacefully sleeping face again?! :D
That's a good enough reason for me. ;)

EDIT: Or as others have said, they were probably found uncounscious. ;D

suse
June 7th, 2011, 07:36 PM
I do agree, it would be nice to break up the endless magnus/will partnership. I want to see some of the others interacting with her...declan would have been great and then had Will being mister manic 'gotta fix this' rather than being stuck..
We'd finally get a chance to see what makes Declan tick

...and especially given next week's promo



yet another helen and will have a singular adventure

Im getting kinda tired of the persistent pairing. Just cause Will is the co-star of the show doesn't mean he MUST be paired with Helen all the time, does it? I mean, on SG1, whether you're into the jack/Daniel co-stars, or jack/Sam co-stars/leading male/leading lady, it was never exclusively one set paired up, they scrambled it around.

Sanctuary needs to do that. It's getting predictable that it'll be Helen/will in trouble and the only unknown is whether or not the others get the B story or if there isn't one.

We have had them broken up. Will/Abby. ;)

Honestly, I just want Helen paired with someone else occasionally.

majorsal
June 7th, 2011, 07:37 PM
a moment of fangirling...

the last scene in the ep, with helen and will lying on the beds: pay close attention to how amanda plays it when she first wakes up. AGAIN, attention to details from amanda the actress! you can see her suddenly realizing she's hooked up to an iv, then she glances to it... i know, not a big deal, but i love the little things amanda does. :p it's just a very normal reaction, and amanda acts ALL parts of being human.

[/fangirling]

EvenstarSRV
June 7th, 2011, 09:54 PM
Pretty good episode. Really enjoyed the Kate and Declan partnership, esp them taking out those guards at the checkpoint. The time dilation dome and Helen as potentially the cause of it because of the fire elemental is interesting, I wonder if they're going to continue with that threat to the season finale.

I really liked the emotional beats between the characters, Helen and Will alternately supporting each other, and the Ravi and Helen scenes, esp the one at sunset. And I found it kinda funny that even though Helen as done most of her work without the benefit of computers, she became frustrated so quickly at having to work without one. I liked that most of the people in Carentan were angry about Helen's plan since even though it was to save the planet, it still meant their deaths. Quite sad that Ravi died though, I really liked that character. :(


I do agree, it would be nice to break up the endless magnus/will partnership. I want to see some of the others interacting with her...declan would have been great and then had Will being mister manic 'gotta fix this' rather than being stuck..
We'd finally get a chance to see what makes Declan tick

...and especially given next week's promo



yet another helen and will have a singular adventure

Im getting kinda tired of the persistent pairing. Just cause Will is the co-star of the show doesn't mean he MUST be paired with Helen all the time, does it? I mean, on SG1, whether you're into the jack/Daniel co-stars, or jack/Sam co-stars/leading male/leading lady, it was never exclusively one set paired up, they scrambled it around.

Sanctuary needs to do that. It's getting predictable that it'll be Helen/will in trouble and the only unknown is whether or not the others get the B story or if there isn't one.

I agree to an extent, though honestly I think they've done a much better job of mixing up the pairings in S3 than they did in S1 and 2. Helen and Will really haven't had much significant interaction in S3.5 outside of Metamorphosis, and before that it was when they were split off together in Hollow Earth. They haven't done a Helen/Will two-hander ala Requiem or Next Tuesday this season, and next week it looks like at least some other characters like Druitt and Abby are going to be involved.

That said, I think having Kate esp in Carentan with Helen could have been more interesting than Will, complete with a guy falling for her for change. Declan I see Helen insisting on staying behind since he's sorta her second-in-command of the Sanctuary network.

Chelle DB
June 8th, 2011, 02:37 AM
Hey, little question, y'all. If Ravi had lived, and returned to normal time with Helen and Will, would he have returned to the age he was when he entered the field? I know that may sound dumb, but... hey. :p
My guess is he would have returned to his normal age...everything that existed on the outside goes back to how they were at the time they entered which is why those that were born in it can't exist outside of it...just my guess tho. :)

I was only surprised because I saw the bullet going through Ravi covering Will, and didn't think Helen was in the way. It was, however, a pleasant surprise to see her peaceful sleeping face again.;)
I agree with you...it was nice to see that Helen didn't just stand right back up on her two lovely feet and brush it off as she has with other close encounters in the past...this just shows she's not impervious to absolutely everything.


'why' were they in the hospital anyways? :p

Entering the dome knocked them out. I'd imagine the collapse of the dome was also a shock.
That would be my guess also...entering the dome knocked them out even if what appeared to be just a few moments but destroying the dome completely would have had a huge impact on anyone near it let alone inside it.

But still, I want Magnus paired with Kate at one point. I really like these two together. Because their backgrounds are so different, they exchanges are always so great.
Same here...I love Kate so I'd love to see her & Magnus team up together...like they did in Sleepers!! :)

Pretty good episode. Really enjoyed the Kate and Declan partnership, esp them taking out those guards at the checkpoint.
Yep...Kate & Declan are pretty nice together...I think they compliment each other really well. :)

I really enjoyed this episode...staying up til after midnight to watch it was more than worth it even though I'm feeling rather buggered for it tonight. :P
I too had that feeling of deja vu in recalling the Stargate eps Revisions & Unending. No complaints from me though. :P
I think I really enjoyed Kate & Declans roles the most in this ep. Helen & Will pairing feels kinda repetitive for me. Don't get me wrong, I like Will but I've seen too much of him this last half season. I need a Will break. :P
I missing the abnormals...I was hoping to see the fire elemental but that quickly disipated....guess that part of the story lost it's energy. :P
I didn't like Josie...nothing personal just couldn't warm up to the character in the short time we had. I much prefer Abby....yes, I am probably the only one who does but hey, I think she's improved since her first day at the Sanctuary. :)
Sad to see Ravi go...wonder who will take over the Mumbai Sanctuary?
Bit of a pity Helen didn't get stuck with Tesla in the dome...I bet that together they could have figured out how to save everyone and a whole lot sooner...and how it happened in the first place. :)
Next weeks ep looks amazing...IIRC, this is the one that Amanda said was where Helen kinda loses it a bit...can't wait to see what the heck that little weasel Virgil Saint Pierre, from Hero 2, is up to now...sneaky little bugger...Helen shoulda whooped his ass when she had the chance. :)

Skydiver
June 8th, 2011, 04:02 AM
Ravi did say that going through the boundary was like 'being hit by a train'

meredithchandler73
June 8th, 2011, 09:58 AM
Thinking about the scene where Will confronts Magnus about the fact that she is essentially immortal and the problem might not be solved in his lifetime. I thought it fit right into the story. And a discussion about Helen's longevity was bound to come up sooner or later - if not from Will, but from someone else. But on further reflection I find this a little annoying. There seems to be an implication that Helen isn't working as hard as she possibly can to get them out of there. And you can tell Helen is spending every waking moment - and hardly sleeping - to solve the problem. I think I'm reading too much into it and it was simply Will expressing his fears. Just as Helen had a mini-explosion at Will over her frustration of not having a computer or proper writing utensils or even a slide rule. But part of me wanted to shake Will and say, "I doubt Helen wants RAVI to die before a solution is found! She's working as hard as she can!"

Of course, it's hard not to draw comparisons to Unending. I find the differences between the stories very interesting.
--Carenten had a sense of urgency while Unending had a slow, steady pace to it. Of course, part of that was that in Unending you are in one speed - the slowed down time of their bubble. But Carenten went back and forth between their slowed time and the real world time.
--Sam wasn't working 24/7 on the problem (we saw her teaching herself to play the cello) while Helen didn't seem to do anything but try to find a way out. That is not a criticism of either character at all - just an observation. What's most interesting though is how Sam was stuck with 4 other people in that time dilation bubble. There weren't really any "distractions" around and you'd think it might be easier to be working non-stop on the problem. While Helen was stuck in a miniature town with lots of people. She might have developed friendships or a working relationship with someone trying to help fix the problem, but she basically dealt with Ravi and Will. Then again, we know from the episode Next Tuesday that Helen isn't really fond of doing nothing.
--Another interesting difference between Unending and Carenten: Sam had the most advanced technology at her fingertips, though she didn't really know what it was capable of or how to use it. And Helen could only work with what was in the dome - and everything she or Will didn't bring with them was 40 years old or older. I mean, the technology wasn't from 40 years ago, but the hardware doesn't tend to last 40 years or longer.)

Back to the idea of Helen forming any sort of friendship with the people in Carenten. I understand her not doing that. But I was thinking in the larger scheme of the series - how much does Helen interact with people outside of the Sanctuary network or who don't know anything about the Sanctuary network? It would be risky for her to deal with the chief of police somewhere who doesn't know anything about the Sanctuary...and have him see Helen 30 years later and she hasn't aged a day. Does Helen have to keep a fairly low profile to hide her longevity? Magnus has name-dropped here and there - do we think all of the people she has mentioned knew her secret? What about Alfredo (owner of the Helen's favorite restaurant)? I mean, how long has he been in business? ;)

Skydiver
June 8th, 2011, 12:41 PM
I do think helen is kinda reclusive. we saw that in the early 1900's and on she was very involved, but I think, like you said, as she didn't age, it got tougher and tougher to keep her secret....not just out of propriety but also to avoid things like that nazi that wanted to study their longevity and learn how to do it.

MyMilo
June 8th, 2011, 04:24 PM
I missing the abnormals...I was hoping to see the fire elemental but that quickly disipated....guess that part of the story lost it's energy. :P



I totally know how you feel! I am beginning to miss the abnormal chasing, and while focusing on the main character stories and building stuff up there is nice, I wish they would have one episode that just........focused on the trill of the chase I guess. Like they used to! I wanna see some more of Kate and Henry and Will and Helen out and catching abnormals! If they'd just give a little bit of a break to the Hollow Earth references. I'm not saying that I don't LOVE the episodes they are coming out with, but I think I'm gonna go watch season two on DVD again.

Dutchess
June 8th, 2011, 04:48 PM
I missing the abnormals...I was hoping to see the fire elemental but that quickly disipated....guess that part of the story lost it's energy. :P



I totally know how you feel! I am beginning to miss the abnormal chasing, and while focusing on the main character stories and building stuff up there is nice, I wish they would have one episode that just........focused on the trill of the chase I guess. Like they used to! I wanna see some more of Kate and Henry and Will and Helen out and catching abnormals! If they'd just give a little bit of a break to the Hollow Earth references. I'm not saying that I don't LOVE the episodes they are coming out with, but I think I'm gonna go watch season two on DVD again.

This is so true!!! I have thought about this a lot. I mean, Sanctuary was based on saving abnormals. It seems to me that the theme of this show IS shifting more toward the lives of the characters. However, I really don't see it as a bad thing; I love revelations of Helen's life- especially when the five are involved. This direction makes the show less upbeat, and in a sense, more believable. I know it is science fiction but it is absolutely intriguing (to me) when a director can turn such fiction into a masterpiece that I can relate to.
One thing I am grateful for is that Will seemed to "calm down." After Kali, he seemed a little immature, but in this episode, I definitely saw a complete turn around in his behaviour. Also, I would love to see more of Declan; he is a great addition to the show
Well, we are down to the last few episodes :( I hope there is another season underway...

JanSam
June 8th, 2011, 05:18 PM
Thinking about the scene where Will confronts Magnus about the fact that she is essentially immortal and the problem might not be solved in his lifetime. I thought it fit right into the story. And a discussion about Helen's longevity was bound to come up sooner or later - if not from Will, but from someone else. But on further reflection I find this a little annoying. There seems to be an implication that Helen isn't working as hard as she possibly can to get them out of there. And you can tell Helen is spending every waking moment - and hardly sleeping - to solve the problem. I think I'm reading too much into it and it was simply Will expressing his fears. Just as Helen had a mini-explosion at Will over her frustration of not having a computer or proper writing utensils or even a slide rule. But part of me wanted to shake Will and say, "I doubt Helen wants RAVI to die before a solution is found! She's working as hard as she can!"

snip
Back to the idea of Helen forming any sort of friendship with the people in Carenten. I understand her not doing that. But I was thinking in the larger scheme of the series - how much does Helen interact with people outside of the Sanctuary network or who don't know anything about the Sanctuary network? It would be risky for her to deal with the chief of police somewhere who doesn't know anything about the Sanctuary...and have him see Helen 30 years later and she hasn't aged a day. Does Helen have to keep a fairly low profile to hide her longevity? Magnus has name-dropped here and there - do we think all of the people she has mentioned knew her secret? What about Alfredo (owner of the Helen's favorite restaurant)? I mean, how long has he been in business? ;)

Helen told Will in Requiem, "When you've been alive for as long as I have...you learn not to get too close to people.
I've buried a lot of friends, colleagues, lovers; more than you can imagine. You asked me earlier how I could relate to people? Well...dinner parties are hell."

So besides keeping a low profile she might do it for her own sanity. She doesn't get close to too many people to spare herself the pain when she loses them. I'm sure with the time sped up in the dome that she would see even more urgency to solve it.

Julian
June 8th, 2011, 05:27 PM
I'm in the minority here who didn't like this episode. TBH I think (with the exception of Awakening) since Pax Romana, Sanctuary just hasn't had that oomph for me.
I felt like the story fell flat. There were so many things that made me just go... eh?

Like:
- How Helen just jumps on this exclusion zone in France
- Because no one contacts her about it they have to go over there and just stick their noses in
- She has to get in to find out what's going on?
- They have no sattelite access at the start, but then Biggie can read the symbol for cerillium (sp?)
- In Normandy she says "you can't destroy a fire elemental" (or something), and then in Carentan to Will she says "I destroyed a fire elemental..."

And then just the acting and script in general, like the interactions with the US Commander dude seemed so OTT and forced, as well as the whole teaser before the opening credits, just so fake an unnatural IMO.

What is it with Will and the increasing amount of potential love interests? It’s become annoying.
I completely agree...

Edit: I also didn't like how she got so angry and frustrated after a month there (when she cracks the ****s at Will and then apologises). I don't think she'd do that. I know personality doesn't change over time, but after 159 years you think she'd be able to have some more unconditional positive regard for what's happening and just accept (certain) things instead of let little things piss her off.

Skydiver
June 8th, 2011, 05:36 PM
I did catch the 'you can't kill an elemental, that's why they're called elementals'.....then her 'i destroyed one'...no, didn't destroy it, you and watson banished it.

majorsal
June 8th, 2011, 05:43 PM
while i'm not a huge fan of this episode, i found helen to be the saving grace for me. or amanda. :p but the scenes that come through the most for me, the ones that stay with me, are the ones with helen.

that scene with her and ravi... absolutely gorgeous and powerful. the writing, the acting, the music... just a perfect scene of sanctuary perfection.

yes, i'm totally fangirling amanda right now :p... but for me, she IS sanctuary. :samanime51:

jckfan55
June 8th, 2011, 05:48 PM
a moment of fangirling...

the last scene in the ep, with helen and will lying on the beds: pay close attention to how amanda plays it when she first wakes up. AGAIN, attention to details from amanda the actress! you can see her suddenly realizing she's hooked up to an iv, then she glances to it... i know, not a big deal, but i love the little things amanda does. :p it's just a very normal reaction, and amanda acts ALL parts of being human.

[/fangirling]
I noticed that too. I figured as a doctor, she was checking out what they were giving her. Nice simple moment when Will says "I told them to let you sleep" and she says "thank you."



Of course, it's hard not to draw comparisons to Unending.

Not for me, as I've blocked it from my mind. :jonas16:


I enjoyed the ep. I was leery when the previews showed something to do with time, time travel, time bubble etc. (I managed not to get *too* spoiled) but they did a pretty good job.

Good Magnus moments, good work by Kate & Declan on not giving up. I liked that Magnus' reply to Will when he was all "I'm going to die here, you're not—have you thought about that?" was a simple look and then a hand on his shoulder. Yes, she knows. Nicely, subtly done.

My disappointment was that they chose to pair Magnus & Will. I would have thought Kate would have been the more practical choice to bring & it would have given us some opportunities to see Magnus & Kate one on one. 

I was sorry they killed off Ravi. I can see why they picked him—they wanted someone we knew so we'd care, but still—poor Ravi.

KayLyne
June 8th, 2011, 06:01 PM
Edit: I also didn't like how she got so angry and frustrated after a month there (when she cracks the ****s at Will and then apologises). I don't think she'd do that. I know personality doesn't change over time, but after 159 years you think she'd be able to have some more unconditional positive regard for what's happening and just accept (certain) things instead of let little things piss her off.
I believe it was more of her being frustrated because:
1) she couldn't figure it out quickly - and time was of the essence
2) since she couldn't fix it quickly, she felt like she wasn't in control of the situation - and we know how much Helen likes to be in control, or at least know what's going on and be one step ahead of things in the thinking process.
3) she didn't have any idea if what she was doing was going to work, and Will hovering around her & whining about it is something she's not used to in a crisis. This is why, during the episode, I was wishing she was with Declan or Biggie, or one of The Five - at least someone who'd been around her long enough to be able to support her (or give her a kick in the butt) instead of annoy her like Will did.

Dinoman
June 8th, 2011, 06:02 PM
Helen told Will in Requiem, "When you've been alive for as long as I have...you learn not to get too close to people.
I've buried a lot of friends, colleagues, lovers; more than you can imagine. You asked me earlier how I could relate to people? Well...dinner parties are hell."

So besides keeping a low profile she might do it for her own sanity. She doesn't get close to too many people to spare herself the pain when she loses them. I'm sure with the time sped up in the dome that she would see even more urgency to solve it.



You can avoid getting close to people but you cannot keep people from getting close or curious about you. With such a large house located by the river front in the Old City, I don't think it would be easy for Helen to keep a profile as low as she expects, especially when Big Guy is the one to answer the door for supermarket deliveries! :)

MyMilo
June 8th, 2011, 06:34 PM
This is so true!!! I have thought about this a lot. I mean, Sanctuary was based on saving abnormals. It seems to me that the theme of this show IS shifting more toward the lives of the characters. However, I really don't see it as a bad thing; I love revelations of Helen's life- especially when the five are involved. This direction makes the show less upbeat, and in a sense, more believable. I know it is science fiction but it is absolutely intriguing (to me) when a director can turn such fiction into a masterpiece that I can relate to.
One thing I am grateful for is that Will seemed to "calm down." After Kali, he seemed a little immature, but in this episode, I definitely saw a complete turn around in his behaviour. Also, I would love to see more of Declan; he is a great addition to the show


i am in absolute agreement! it is not a bad thing that they are focusing more on the character, it's just not what it used to be. but everything evolves eventually!

Skydiver
June 8th, 2011, 06:38 PM
ah, my nit.....12 hours of light, 12 hours of dark...in october?

KayLyne
June 8th, 2011, 06:49 PM
This is so true!!! I have thought about this a lot. I mean, Sanctuary was based on saving abnormals. It seems to me that the theme of this show IS shifting more toward the lives of the characters. However, I really don't see it as a bad thing; I love revelations of Helen's life- especially when the five are involved. This direction makes the show less upbeat, and in a sense, more believable. I know it is science fiction but it is absolutely intriguing (to me) when a director can turn such fiction into a masterpiece that I can relate to.
The way I see it is that the Sanctuary itself may be about giving refuge to abnormals or protecting the rest of the world from them. However, to me, Sanctuary (the show) has always been about whatever doesn't fit "in the box" according to 'normal' humans - whether it be some kind of abnormal being or unknown entity, some strange technology or even some strange place that doesn't fit the parameters of being 'normal'. I essentially see the show as The Life & Times of Helen Magnus - which includes a broad spectrum since she's lived two lifetimes already - and the weird & wacky that always seems to follow her through the outward fringes of science.

NumberSix
June 8th, 2011, 09:22 PM
Overall I thought this was a good episode. Not my favorite, but still a good one and I'm guessing part of the build-up to the final two episodes of the season. (?)

I don't mind the Helen/Will pairing as long as they don't have too many of them and give the other characters time too. I did like how Helen and Will worked together in this ep, and the mutual hands on the shoulders was a nice touch in showing their support and friendship for each other.

Like someone else mentioned I don't want to see Will kissing a different girl in every episode, but in this situation where he thought he might not live long enough to get back to their own time, I can understand that he'd think of the possibility of being with someone else. I like that he said it was complicated though, because of Abby, and still had issues with it. And I liked Josie up until the end when she fired her gun. I couldn't help thinking "you were all set to have a baby with this guy but now you're going to shoot him?"

Nice use of Biggie, and I liked the little part where Kate is talking about a recipe where they substituted ingredients and she says it tasted just as good and Biggie goes "did not." However, I kept thinking Henry should have been there doing the computer stuff.

I thought the sunset scene with Helen and Ravi was very well done. Probably my favorite moment of the episode. Beautifully shot, beautiful music and excellent performances. When I watched it the 2nd time and Ravi says the sun has almost set, it sounds prophetic in light of what happened to him.

Chelle DB
June 8th, 2011, 11:32 PM
ah, my nit.....12 hours of light, 12 hours of dark...in october?
Yes...but it's France Sky!! :rolleyes: :P
I think what I would have liked to have seen in this ep is what exactly happened to the time dilation bubble when Helen set the charge off.

Personally, I'd just like to see Helen paired with someone else for a few eps...preferably Kate or Tesla or maybe even with Declan.
I wish Helen wasn't such a recluse either...I wish she would go out and have some fun...let loose for a bit. I don't think it's that much to ask...it's not like she doesn't have an adventurous bone in her body. :)

Morigane50
June 9th, 2011, 12:19 PM
This episode was very intense with a lot of sensitivity and even poetry in my opinion. I loved the interactions between the characters . I was happy to see again Ravi because I had liked him in he episode Kali and the old Ravi was very moving . English is not my first language so I am not sure to have well understood the why and how of all the story of the time dilation but it doesn't matter , i will rewatch the episode and hope to read a transcript to help me.
In this episode I liked a lot the relationship between Will and Helen , it reminds me the Mulder/Scully friendship between a man and a woman in X-Files , and this is what I had found interesting when I discovered and begun to watch Sanctuary a few months ago.
I loved too Declan and Kate , they were great .
The last scene at the hospital was beautiful with the guilt on Helen and Will , that was sad too.
They didn’t really explain the relation with the fire elemental which escape in 1944 and the situation nowadays , I hope they will do with the next episodes.
So to finish , I found it was a beautiful episode well played with nice dialogues .

kes
June 9th, 2011, 04:01 PM
[...]English is not my first language so I am not sure to have well understood the why and how of all the story of the time dilation but it doesn't matter , i will rewatch the episode and hope to read a transcript to help me. Have you tried subs?



The last scene at the hospital was beautiful with the guilt on Helen and Will , that was sad too.
They didn’t really explain the relation with the fire elemental which escape in 1944 and the situation nowadays , I hope they will do with the next episodes.


They havent explained what/who cause the time dilation (sp). The fire elemental was a possibility. That's why Magnus blames herself.

majorsal
June 9th, 2011, 04:07 PM
They havent explained what/who cause the time dilation (sp). The fire elemental was a possibility. That's why Magnus blames herself.

i'm wondering if adam worth is using the fire elemental, as a power source for his time dilation experiments?

Skydiver
June 9th, 2011, 05:32 PM
the transcript is done
http://www.jackfic.net/emeraldcity/sanctuarytranscripts/carentan.htm
my thanks to Jakie for providing teh French

MidwifeOnBoard
June 9th, 2011, 06:02 PM
My response is going to be brief, but here goes.

I really enjoyed this episode far more than I had anticipated based on what the previews had shown. I thought it was a wonderful team episode, even with Henry missing. There wasn't really a place for him in this script, IMHO.

I loved older-Ravi. He was so sweet and soulful, but you could still see the Ravi we had known from kali. I just feel like it was a shame for him to die. I felt a little like it was a ploy to enforce the 'we have jeopardy' on Sanctuary more than having it actually forward the plot. JMHO, but I didn't like it. Of course, one more layer of guilt to Magnus' personality can't hurt.

I even *gasp* liked Will in this episode. When he is utilized as per his character description, and not acting like an overgrown adolescent, his continued employment at the Sanctuary and friendship with Magnus totally makes sense. PTB- please keep doing this!

Kate and Declan? Loved this partnership! Bada$s + Bada$ser? Perfectly brilliant. LOVED them.

I haven't had a chance to rewatch the ep. But those are my initial impressions. :)

Skydiver
June 9th, 2011, 06:05 PM
i'm wondering if adam worth is using the fire elemental, as a power source for his time dilation experiments?

that's what i'm thinking.

Morigane50
June 10th, 2011, 11:59 AM
Have you tried subs?



They havent explained what/who cause the time dilation (sp). The fire elemental was a possibility. That's why Magnus blames herself.

Thanks for the precisions!

I prefer not to use subs because they are usually done with the help of translation software and the final translation is sometimes horrible with a lot of non sense sentences which spoil the story.

kes
June 10th, 2011, 02:13 PM
Thanks for the precisions!

I prefer not to use subs because they are usually done with the help of translation software and the final translation is sometimes horrible with a lot of non sense sentences which spoil the story.

Some are pretty bad. But you can find good ones out there.

RealmOfX
June 10th, 2011, 04:08 PM
I'm in the minority here who didn't like this episode. TBH I think (with the exception of Awakening) since Pax Romana, Sanctuary just hasn't had that oomph for me.
I felt like the story fell flat. There were so many things that made me just go... eh?

Like:
- How Helen just jumps on this exclusion zone in France
- Because no one contacts her about it they have to go over there and just stick their noses in
- She has to get in to find out what's going on?


Sorry but I just don't agree with this take on things and I'm wondering if we watched the same show.

That's not what happened. One of her Head of House, Declan, brought the situation to her notice because it involved another Head of House, Ravi. If you think Magnus is not going to react to a situation involving the disappearance of one of her Heads of House and a friend as well then I don't think you understand much about Helen Magnus. Also once discovering that there is some extremely high level interference in the investigation going on then it makes sense for Helen to go.



- They have no sattelite access at the start, but then Biggie can read the symbol for cerillium (sp?)


Actually whatever feed Declan tried to access was censored, that doesn't mean the main Sanctuary wouldn't try another way to get the information. They've proven that they are extremely resourceful before so why is it so difficult to believe now?



- In Normandy she says "you can't destroy a fire elemental" (or something), and then in Carentan to Will she says "I destroyed a fire elemental..."


Normandy -
Helen :
There's no way to really kill a fire elemental. It's kind of why they call them elementals.

Carentan -
Helen:
I destroyed a massive fire elemental back in 1944. Drove it into the Earth less than half a mile from here, and now this?

I'll agree that destroyed may not have been the best word to use but she didn't say that she killed the elemental and she further explained that she drove it into the ground.

jckfan55
June 10th, 2011, 04:45 PM
I loved older-Ravi. He was so sweet and soulful, but you could still see the Ravi we had known from kali. I just feel like it was a shame for him to die. I felt a little like it was a ploy to enforce the 'we have jeopardy' on Sanctuary more than having it actually forward the plot. JMHO, but I didn't like it.
The thought crossed my mind that this was the work of Martin "Bloodthirsty" Wood. ;)


Of course, one more layer of guilt to Magnus' personality can't hurt.
I liked how Magnus said that until she knows otherwise she suspects it's something she did. I do hope it's not, though.

EH-T
June 11th, 2011, 08:31 AM
Haven't had the chance to read all the comments yet so a lot of this will no doubt cover the same ground.

I liked this episode. Yes, it was a common scifi theme but I think it was well done.

Kudos:

-I really liked the actor who played the older Ravi. I cared what happened to the character which means the actor did a wonderful job.
-I liked the Kate/Declan combo. Something we haven't seen before and that was fun. I know people often say they would like to see more combos and not just Helen/Will. To me, Kate/Declan shows you can mix up the pairings successfully. Love that they could not stand doing nothing and were going to go after Helen and Will (even though that was exactly the wrong thing to do). I also thought this was a good use of Declan and in this ep it made sense for him to be involved.
-I like that they are keeping the Hollow Earth storyline alive in little ways.
-Thought the actress who played Ravi's wife was also excellent. What a noble character.
-Beautiful moment with Helen and Ravi at sunset. Well played by both actors.
-I did find this the episode where I thought of "Sam" as much as "Helen". Making the device out of various parts, including a toaster :), caught in a time dilation field, etc
-Nice moments between Helen and Will.

Nitpicks:

-I found some of the directing distracting. There were a lot of sweeps past foreground elements that I found distracting.
-I miss Henry. I assume RR was off on another job because the stuff being done by the Big Guy was really more Henry's forte.
-I am officially tired of Will's love life in season 3. IMO it would have been better to have Helen working with a male scientist and have them fall for each other. Much more emotional investment for Helen then to be the one who ends his existence along with all the others.

Confusing points:

-I found the reaction of the team to the first checkpoint odd. Wouldn't Helen identify herself and try insisting on speaking to whomever was in charge before they just beat up people without knowing anything about them?
-Why would the girl shoot at Will and not Helen (who was operating the device)?
-Helen recognising Ravi right away. Thought it was unlikely she would immediately recognise him.

Kilgharrah
June 11th, 2011, 08:55 AM
Confusing points:

-I found the reaction of the team to the first checkpoint odd. Wouldn't Helen identify herself and try insisting on speaking to whomever was in charge before they just beat up people without knowing anything about them?
-Why would the girl shoot at Will and not Helen (who was operating the device)?
-Helen recognising Ravi right away. Thought it was unlikely she would immediately recognise him.

-Ravi has already gone through that and since they refused to let Ravi in, they would have the same reaction towards Helen. Besides, their leader confirmed this later. He said it's top secret. Something that needs someone even more connected than she is to be revealed. More than top secret.
-Will was covering Helen at that time, so there was no way for them to reach Helen, besides, she felt betrayed by Will. She liked him and then he wants to make her vanish from existence. (My opinion)
-Ravi and Helen have been friends for a very long time. She would have recognized him even if he was 100 years old.

kes
June 11th, 2011, 08:58 AM
-Helen recognising Ravi right away. Thought it was unlikely she would immediately recognise him.

Why not? Ppl age, they dont change completly. Her brain is open enough to accept the fact that someone that is suppose to be 30 something is now 70 something. He recognized her so she jumped in. Recognizing Ravi.

kes
June 11th, 2011, 09:03 AM
-Will was covering Helen at that time, so there was no way for them to reach Helen, besides, she felt betrayed by Will. She liked him and then he wants to make her vanish from existence. (My opinion)


No he wasnt. At best Ravi was. She does point the gun at Magnus but then goes back to Will.

Galileo_Galilee
June 11th, 2011, 10:04 AM
We should see more Henry and Kate episodes.

Because really, what is Henry doing there? He doesn't really provide anything to the show. Since now the Big Guy can take over the computer tech.

Henry seems to be the Zeppo to the team.

Kilgharrah
June 11th, 2011, 10:10 AM
We should see more Henry and Kate episodes.

Because really, what is Henry doing there? He doesn't really provide anything to the show. Since now the Big Guy can take over the computer tech.

Henry seems to be the Zeppo to the team.
Actually Will is. I can't see a job for him there that anyone else can't do. He's not special.

Even though biggie learned how to do Henry's job, Henry is still a genius when it comes to technician work or hacking into any computer. He's natural.

Skydiver
June 11th, 2011, 11:10 AM
Ryan was probably doing mortal kombat

EH-T
June 11th, 2011, 11:26 AM
[QUOTE=PrometheOSS;12691740]-Ravi has already gone through that and since they refused to let Ravi in, they would have the same reaction towards Helen. Besides, their leader confirmed this later. He said it's top secret. Something that needs someone even more connected than she is to be revealed. More than top secret.

But how would Helen have known that at the time?


-Will was covering Helen at that time, so there was no way for them to reach Helen, besides, she felt betrayed by Will. She liked him and then he wants to make her vanish from existence. (My opinion)

I believe that Will was standing up beside where Helen was crouching down so I don't think he was covering her.


-Ravi and Helen have been friends for a very long time. She would have recognized him even if he was 100 years old.


Why not? Ppl age, they dont change completly. Her brain is open enough to accept the fact that someone that is suppose to be 30 something is now 70 something. He recognized her so she jumped in. Recognizing Ravi.

No people don't change completely but they do change. I've been to school reunions where classmates don't recognise each other. I agree Helen is open to some pretty wierd possibilities but I think it happened too fast IMO. Her reaction wasn't "Ravi?" it was "Ravi!"

Kilgharrah
June 11th, 2011, 12:00 PM
But how would Helen have known that at the time?
That's the idea. If she was important enough to be allowed inside, everybody would have recognized her right away, not just the leader. Besides, the initial explanation for what happens at that certain area would not be an abnormal. That's why she would be no use to them.



No people don't change completely but they do change. I've been to school reunions where classmates don't recognise each other. I agree Helen is open to some pretty wierd possibilities but I think it happened too fast IMO. Her reaction wasn't "Ravi?" it was "Ravi!"
Haven't you ever had a friend that u've known ur whole life? One that u know everything about? And seen them in all their looks? If u had, u'll know what we're talking about. And if u had such a friend, try to compare their look when they were young and right now. Ask urself if u can see the similarities and whether that's the same person, then ask someone that doesn't know them the same question and u'll see the difference in answers.

EH-T
June 11th, 2011, 01:29 PM
That's the idea. If she was important enough to be allowed inside, everybody would have recognized her right away, not just the leader. Besides, the initial explanation for what happens at that certain area would not be an abnormal. That's why she would be no use to them.

My point was merely that it seemed extreme to me that they would start knocking people out without first asking who was in charge and to see them. Then if they were refused they may have done what they did.


Haven't you ever had a friend that u've known ur whole life? One that u know everything about? And seen them in all their looks? If u had, u'll know what we're talking about. And if u had such a friend, try to compare their look when they were young and right now. Ask urself if u can see the similarities and whether that's the same person, then ask someone that doesn't know them the same question and u'll see the difference in answers.
[/QUOTE]

That's a different situation because you would see them grow old. Of course they would be similar, I'm not saying he wouldn't be but again, to me, it was too fast for Helen to recognise him when he was decades older and had only been missing for days. IMO he would have seemed familiar but it wouldn't automatically click with her that "Oh, its Ravi, he just happens to be 75 now" :p

majorsal
June 11th, 2011, 01:57 PM
Nitpicks:

-I found some of the directing distracting. There were a lot of sweeps past foreground elements that I found distracting.


what does that mean? :p

kes
June 11th, 2011, 02:15 PM
That's a different situation because you would see them grow old. Of course they would be similar, I'm not saying he wouldn't be but again, to me, it was too fast for Helen to recognise him when he was decades older and had only been missing for days. IMO he would have seemed familiar but it wouldn't automatically click with her that "Oh, its Ravi, he just happens to be 75 now" :p
But he was already over 30. Not a teenager that you suddenly see in their 40 or something.
Plus he recognized them.


Will wasnt in from of her. Josie (sp) is looking at Ravi, gun pointing at Will. Neither of them on screen
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/6582/sanctuaryxt.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/841/sanctuaryxt.jpg/)

Kilgharrah
June 11th, 2011, 02:34 PM
My point was merely that it seemed extreme to me that they would start knocking people out without first asking who was in charge and to see them. Then if they were refused they may have done what they did.
Here's another explanation. Kate might have acted on her own just like she did in 'The Bank Job'. It helped, but it wasn't what Magnus would think of. You see the point?

EvenstarSRV
June 11th, 2011, 05:11 PM
Actually whatever feed Declan tried to access was censored, that doesn't mean the main Sanctuary wouldn't try another way to get the information. They've proven that they are extremely resourceful before so why is it so difficult to believe now?

I thought it was Declan who saw the cerillium symbol off of a computer in the security team's tent, which wouldn't be censored, and then relayed that info to Biggie.



That's a different situation because you would see them grow old. Of course they would be similar, I'm not saying he wouldn't be but again, to me, it was too fast for Helen to recognise him when he was decades older and had only been missing for days. IMO he would have seemed familiar but it wouldn't automatically click with her that "Oh, its Ravi, he just happens to be 75 now" :p

I just figured she recognized him because he was the only Indian in the village, IIRC, and it was unlikely that there would be too many others in a small French village.

I'm still quite sad that Ravi died. He could have been a nice reoccurring character like Declan I thought.

Celandine
June 11th, 2011, 05:52 PM
Did Helen and Will just 'kill' a whole town of people to save themselves? :S

Skydiver
June 11th, 2011, 05:59 PM
Also....how many Indians will you find in a french town?

RealmOfX
June 11th, 2011, 06:03 PM
Did Helen and Will just 'kill' a whole town of people to save themselves? :S

No, but maybe you weren't paying attention and missed that the whole world would be destroyed unless they fixed the time dilation field.

EvenstarSRV
June 11th, 2011, 06:08 PM
Did Helen and Will just 'kill' a whole town of people to save themselves? :S

Not just themselves, billions of people. If they hadn't reversed the time bubble, it would have expanded and eventually destroyed the whole world. Not the first time Helen has had to 'sacrifice' the few to save the many I'd imagine.

Skydiver
June 11th, 2011, 06:31 PM
What they said.

Helen had weeks (?) Months (?) - three weeks sticks in my head, to reverse the bubble or the whole world would have been enveloped in it. and, as Ravi said, the world would not be able to handle time moving faster - tectonic plates, etc

as to the people in the village, they were all - except for ravi -descendants of the original scientists, that technically shouldn't exist in the real world because they hadn't been born yet.

their choice was to reset the bubble, saving the world, or let it expand, knowing that it would kill the world plus the people in the bubble

Celandine
June 11th, 2011, 06:44 PM
No, but maybe you weren't paying attention and missed that the whole world would be destroyed unless they fixed the time dilation field.

Totally not called for to say someone wasn't paying attention..

Yeah, Helen had to save the world again but this time sacrifice hundreds of people in the process. Can one become desensitized to killing people after living hundreds of years like she has?


Not just themselves, billions of people. If they hadn't reversed the time bubble, it would have expanded and eventually destroyed the whole world. Not the first time Helen has had to 'sacrifice' the few to save the many I'd imagine.

I'm sure she carries a huge weight of guilt. Not only did she erase from existence hundreds of people, but she might have been the cause of them being stuck in the time dilation in the first place when she sent the elemental deep into the earth back in the 40's.

Skydiver
June 11th, 2011, 06:53 PM
I think it was a lose/lose. These people were headed into a years long famine where many would die. They were people that literally couldn't survive outside the time bubble. The world would be destroyed if the bubble expanded (Although one thing that didn't seem to make sense is how the trees would act and react to years long 'summers' and years long 'winters'. I would think that three years with no sunlight would kill the plants)

I also wonder if the plates would be moving as fast as Ravi said they wouild be or if the what was in the bubble would be considered to be 'normal'...or was it that the plants weren't effected but the people were? but then how did food grow?

yeah, time travel gives me a headache.

majorsal
June 11th, 2011, 06:54 PM
I think it was a lose/lose.

it was like a lose/massive lose. :(

Skydiver
June 11th, 2011, 06:56 PM
IMHO, she chose the decision that hurt the least and aided the most, which is sometimes all you can ask for.

Mandysg1
June 11th, 2011, 07:05 PM
Yea, very hard decisions to make, and just because she doesn't break down and cry, doesn't mean she doesn't feel the guilt and have many a sleepless night because of it :(

majorsal
June 11th, 2011, 07:06 PM
IMHO, she chose the decision that hurt the least and aided the most, which is sometimes all you can ask for.

yeah. *nods*

the end of the ep was a perfect somber mood. i'm still going to miss ravi. :(


oh, btw, does anyone know *why* a diff actor was chosen to play the older ravi?

Mandysg1
June 11th, 2011, 07:22 PM
yeah. *nods*

the end of the ep was a perfect somber mood. i'm still going to miss ravi. :(


oh, btw, does anyone know *why* a diff actor was chosen to play the older ravi?

Maybe they used all the make-up budget on Chris :P

Skydiver
June 11th, 2011, 07:52 PM
Maybe the original actor was otherwise booked?

EvenstarSRV
June 11th, 2011, 09:17 PM
Yeah, Helen had to save the world again but this time sacrifice hundreds of people in the process. Can one become desensitized to killing people after living hundreds of years like she has?

I wouldn't go as far as 'desensitized' in Helen's case, but perhaps more hardened to the reality that she sometimes has to make those kinds of difficult choices. I imagine it's not unlike the mentality some soldiers develop after years of combat, or the people who work triage at mass casualty events. I don't think it's the years she's lived so much as the experiences she's gone through in that time.

I've also noticed that Helen regularly either inspires or convinces people to risk their lives for her chosen causes, even if it may not be in their own best interest. Ravi was going to lose his wife and family, and yet he still sided and protected Helen until the end against essentially his own people.



I'm sure she carries a huge weight of guilt. Not only did she erase from existence hundreds of people, but she might have been the cause of them being stuck in the time dilation in the first place when she sent the elemental deep into the earth back in the 40's.

I think that's also something that's Helen is no stranger to, her actions to save one group sometimes leading to the deaths of others, or her plans backfiring and killing innocent bystanders. It's a bit like what happened in End of Nights, where Helen and the Five getting the Source blood to stop that virus eventually led to the deaths of all those Sanctuary people as well as Ashley and the other super abnormals.


yeah. *nods*

the end of the ep was a perfect somber mood. i'm still going to miss ravi. :(


oh, btw, does anyone know *why* a diff actor was chosen to play the older ravi?

I'm guessing they didn't want to put Shaker through hours of make-up to age him.

Kilgharrah
June 12th, 2011, 06:15 AM
My explanation for Ravi's change of actor is that the original one might have left the show, so they made him shoot the short video of him at the beginning and then he was changed and that's would explain why they killed him off at the end.

JanSam
June 12th, 2011, 07:48 AM
My point was merely that it seemed extreme to me that they would start knocking people out without first asking who was in charge and to see them. Then if they were refused they may have done what they did.

At first I thought it was a little extreme too until I thought about it more. After all the blocks they went through with the phone calls to the different agencies and the censored satellite feed; the guard not even letting Helen finish her sentence when she started to ask about Ravi was seen as another block (the guard had his orders and he wasn't going to even listen to them). It did seem like Kate and Declan came to the conclusion together at the same time and went with their own solution; Helen just kept quiet and went along with it.

Kilgharrah
June 12th, 2011, 07:59 AM
(Although one thing that didn't seem to make sense is how the trees would act and react to years long 'summers' and years long 'winters'. I would think that three years with no sunlight would kill the plants)
Of course they die. That's why they save food for the night years. And that's why people die. They said it themselves. Food is never enough.

JanSam
June 12th, 2011, 08:06 AM
I think it was a lose/lose. These people were headed into a years long famine where many would die. They were people that literally couldn't survive outside the time bubble. The world would be destroyed if the bubble expanded (Although one thing that didn't seem to make sense is how the trees would act and react to years long 'summers' and years long 'winters'. I would think that three years with no sunlight would kill the plants)

I also wonder if the plates would be moving as fast as Ravi said they wouild be or if the what was in the bubble would be considered to be 'normal'...or was it that the plants weren't effected but the people were? but then how did food grow?

yeah, time travel gives me a headache.

Yeah it gave me a headache trying to understand that too; decided it wasn't worth it and let it go :P I believe Ravi said they ran out of food because the plants died (or he alluded to that). And not only would the plants be affected so would the people; humans need sunlight so the body can produce vitamin D.....yeah best not to look at it too closely :P

Skydiver
June 12th, 2011, 10:34 AM
my point was....they've been though several 'long nights'...the trees should have died on the first one. If the people in the bubble had been living there for 100 years or so there should be no trees. They'd have died on the first long winter and be nothing but rotting trunks now

kes
June 12th, 2011, 10:39 AM
3 years of light, 3 years of dark?

Kilgharrah
June 12th, 2011, 10:43 AM
my point was....they've been though several 'long nights'...the trees should have died on the first one. If the people in the bubble had been living there for 100 years or so there should be no trees. They'd have died on the first long winter and be nothing but rotting trunks now
They have 3 years of light to grow new ones

Skydiver
June 12th, 2011, 12:12 PM
True. But that forest they walked through wasn't full of 3 year old trees. More like 20+
not to mention a lack of dead ones.

Like others have said best not to look too closely.

Kilgharrah
June 12th, 2011, 12:48 PM
True. But that forest they walked through wasn't full of 3 year old trees. More like 20+
not to mention a lack of dead ones.

Like others have said best not to look too closely.
Then you're right. If you're on Twitter, you could tell Damian Kindler about that mistake. I tend to tell him whenever there's something wrong.
For example, I told him once about the Background music that uses Arabic words that are not related in anyway to what's happening in the episode. I don't remember which episodes they were though.

EH-T
June 12th, 2011, 03:14 PM
But he was already over 30. Not a teenager that you suddenly see in their 40 or something.
Plus he recognized them.


Will wasnt in from of her. Josie (sp) is looking at Ravi, gun pointing at Will. Neither of them on screen
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/6582/sanctuaryxt.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/841/sanctuaryxt.jpg/)


Here's another explanation. Kate might have acted on her own just like she did in 'The Bank Job'. It helped, but it wasn't what Magnus would think of. You see the point?

Not sure there is any point in continuing to debate how I viewed certain things in the episode. We obviously view them differently. Besides, she shouldn't have recognised him because it wasn't the same actor! :p


what does that mean? :p

For example, in a scene near the beginning with Biggie and Kate (joined by Will) the camera sweeps back and forth and there are things in the foreground (out of focus) the camera goes past several times.

Professor_S
June 12th, 2011, 04:13 PM
The Good:

-Loved the character moments in this episode... between Helen and Ravi, Ravi and Will, Helen and Will...
-It was good to see Helen at her wits end. Too often, our heroes seem impervious to the tribulations they face. Makes the characters more real (or in this case, Helen).
-Likewise for Will; but, I have to admit, somehow I didn't find RD's performance as compelling.
-Generally speaking, this episode was a brilliant combination of plot and character development. The best of television always weds these elements; Sanctuary often favours the former at the expense of the latter - not so in this ep.
-The Declan/Kate Team of Awesome! :D Loved their dynamic.

Minor Quibble:

-Why wouldn't the residents of the Dome have marked off the edge by this point?? Given that running into it is so dangerous...
-Is it just me, or is Will becoming the Capt. Kirk of Sanctuary?

Moving onward:

-I'd love to see our heroes grapple with the morality of their decision a little bit. Granted it was the best of two tragic and terrible options, but that doesn't mean the decision shouldn't weigh heavily with them moving forward.
-I hope to see more of this kind of story-telling from Sanctuary, where character development isn't given the short shrift.

.
.
.

P.S. Any one else get a Carter vibe when Magnus was explaining about dilation fields and communication? :P :D

All in all, a fantastic episode! I really enjoyed this one.

KayLyne
June 12th, 2011, 09:59 PM
Minor Quibble:

-Why wouldn't the residents of the Dome have marked off the edge by this point?? Given that running into it is so dangerous...


There is the small electrical feeling they got when they were near the edge that gave them a warning.
Didn't the field already expand a couple times? Helen said it was ready to make a major expansion that would include the entire eastern part of France. Thus if they were going to mark off the perimeter, it would need to be updated every time it expanded.

parsifal
June 12th, 2011, 11:38 PM
-I'd love to see our heroes grapple with the morality of their decision a little bit. Granted it was the best of two tragic and terrible options, but that doesn't mean the decision shouldn't weigh heavily with them moving forward.

With what is there to grapple?

siles
June 13th, 2011, 04:18 AM
my point was....they've been though several 'long nights'...the trees should have died on the first one. If the people in the bubble had been living there for 100 years or so there should be no trees. They'd have died on the first long winter and be nothing but rotting trunks now

Being exposed to 3 years of continued sunlight might make them grow faster

Celandine
June 13th, 2011, 07:02 AM
With what is there to grapple?

How bout choosing to erase hundreds of lives? Sounds to me like something that would/should weigh on anyone's conscious.

parsifal
June 13th, 2011, 09:00 AM
How bout choosing to erase hundreds of lives? Sounds to me like something that would/should weigh on anyone's conscious.(sic)

Flip a switch to save all of humanity? Maybe some people would be bothered by it, but I don't see where the moral debate is.

Inquisitor
June 13th, 2011, 09:37 AM
I had a somewhat funny thought last night. Since their hair wouldn't last for years, when they came out of the bubble they would be bald.

I find that image funny :P

Professor_S
June 13th, 2011, 10:28 AM
There is the small electrical feeling they got when they were near the edge that gave them a warning.
Didn't the field already expand a couple times? Helen said it was ready to make a major expansion that would include the entire eastern part of France. Thus if they were going to mark off the perimeter, it would need to be updated every time it expanded.

Ah! The point about expansion is a good one. I imagine that might get tiresome... Nevertheless, they did go out and scan the field every day. But still, a good point.


With what is there to grapple?


How bout choosing to erase hundreds of lives? Sounds to me like something that would/should weigh on anyone's conscious.


Flip a switch to save all of humanity? Maybe some people would be bothered by it, but I don't see where the moral debate is.

I'm rather of Celandine's mind on this one, parsifal. It's true that billions of lives are saved; but the fact remains, hundreds of lives - including the lives of those that they got to know quite well over 100 some-odd days - were lost. I'm not sure the utilitarian calculus of maximal good would be enough to leave my mind at complete ease. Did they make the right decision? Yes. Did they make an easy decision? No. Effectively, hundreds of people were killed (insofar as their lives were ended) because of our heroes' actions. Despite the fact that billions were saved because of it, I would hope that this would still give them pause. I, at least, wouldn't want to simply them dusting their hands off and proclaiming "job well done" - to me, this decision was heavier than that.

Pity that Ravi died. His reaction moving on from the collapsing of the dome would have by far the most interesting.

Mandysg1
June 13th, 2011, 01:13 PM
If you look at the last scene, after Will told Helen that Ravi didn't make it, Helen asked him if anyone else did. If you actually look at them, they are not happy, but do look sad at what happened, they may not have said anything about those who died, but you could see by the looks on thier faces it did affect them.

IMHO

Professor_S
June 13th, 2011, 01:25 PM
If you look at the last scene, after Will told Helen that Ravi didn't make it, Helen asked him if anyone else did. If you actually look at them, they are not happy, but do look sad at what happened, they may not have said anything about those who died, but you could see by the looks on thier faces it did affect them.

IMHO

I think this is true. But I'm hoping that this persists a little into future eps - reflection upon, or contemplation/concern about their actions. *shrugs* I'm just not a fan of the reset button approach we tend to get. I mean, take Helen post Pavor; we saw her being pensive at the end of the ep, but after that she was right as rain.

majorsal
June 13th, 2011, 01:35 PM
I'm rather of Celandine's mind on this one, parsifal. It's true that billions of lives are saved; but the fact remains, hundreds of lives - including the lives of those that they got to know quite well over 100 some-odd days - were lost. I'm not sure the utilitarian calculus of maximal good would be enough to leave my mind at complete ease. Did they make the right decision? Yes. Did they make an easy decision? No. Effectively, hundreds of people were killed (insofar as their lives were ended) because of our heroes' actions. Despite the fact that billions were saved because of it, I would hope that this would still give them pause. I, at least, wouldn't want to simply them dusting their hands off and proclaiming "job well done" - to me, this decision was heavier than that.



helen and will looked pretty down at the end of the ep, so i'd imagine that being one of the reasons for it, along with ravi dying, and being trapped in that existence for almost an entire year, etc.

majorsal
June 13th, 2011, 01:37 PM
I think this is true. But I'm hoping that this persists a little into future eps - reflection upon, or contemplation/concern about their actions. *shrugs* I'm just not a fan of the reset button approach we tend to get. I mean, take Helen post Pavor; we saw her being pensive at the end of the ep, but after that she was right as rain.

on that note, i agree, and a lot of shows do this (especially stargate). i'm still :mckay: at how fast ashley's death was gotten over, and i'm not that big a fan of hers.

Huaracocha
June 13th, 2011, 05:13 PM
I really didn't enjoy this episode at all. Low on action, no abnormals. No Druitt or Tesla or Henry and very little Biggie.

Also it just felt really rushed, the whole time dilation thing and a lot of the dialogue was questionable. "destroyed" the fire elemental, "only the 3 of us" would survive and then that theme was continued.. OK so we have to assume ALL the original teams are dead leaving only descendants. So it's a reset switch effectively.. so why do Helen and Will remember it? Why is Ravi dead, who shot him if that bird never existed?

Why would the continents be zipping around at super speed destroying the earth within the dilation field? If we accept that this is true for the continents wouldn't it be true for the people inside too - i.e. they wouldn't be able to move around or interact with each other or objects because they would be moving too fast and our bodies couldn't handle the G-force or impact of gently touching an object etc.

Completely agree with the points about marking the perimeter, survival of trees through the dark years etc. The villagers also looked pretty healthy for a bunch of people who'd been living off the land with no game to hunt (animals wouldn't survive 3 years of dark) and no sunlight for years at a time.

Nice enough clothes they were wearing too, very French villager looking. Made them all themselves presumably.. or are the clothes supposed to be 100 years old? In which case the govt. scientist teams and army follow ups went in disguised as circa 1950 French peasants I guess.

They could have just replaced this episode with a quick video call from Adam to the Sanctuary saying "I'm going to start messing with time bwahahahaha" for all I got out of it. *sigh*

/rant off

suse
June 13th, 2011, 06:44 PM
Being exposed to 3 years of continued sunlight might make them grow faster

Actually, a period of dark is good for plants. It allows them to process. Rather like sleep.

Skydiver
June 13th, 2011, 06:51 PM
they would never have survived the first 3 year cycle of darkness

and even if seeds were dormant and didn't sprout until the light, you can't get that kind of evolution in 100 years to make them grow that fast (as in 30+ feet tall)

It's not something they could have replicated. not to mention that most of the survivors would never have survived the second dark.

it's a 'gimme'....kinda like in Veratis....if biggie was 'dead' and helen had a bug in her brain, who took the bug out????? No one was there with the surgical skills...even AT admitted it was a plot hole.

It's just a gimme and part of the belief that you suspend to enjoy the show

Professor_S
June 13th, 2011, 08:05 PM
Just rewatched this episode. I think is one of my favourite episodes from S3 (along with Breach, FKaC, and Normandy). I wanted to make another post to give a nod to the actors who played Dome!Ravi and Anna - to me, they were by far the most captivating characters in this episode. Excellent performances on both parts.

jckfan55
June 14th, 2011, 12:48 PM
^yes, I really liked Ravi. And maybe it's just b/c I haven't seen Ravi in a while, but I thought the actor looked very believably like how an old Ravi would look.

I agree about not looking too closely at things like: wouldn't the plants die in 3 years of dark? And how did they get their clothes?

Skydiver
June 14th, 2011, 06:07 PM
I think the plants and trees would have died in the first dark, definitely by the second one. There might be a few low plants, but the trees would all be dead. Ravi and the others would honestly be trying to rig some sort of powered light source - like ok the batteries die, then have people take turns on a bicycle to generate power. I know they're at the mercy of what tech they have but it would be doable i would think

also, wouldn't 3 years of dark = frozen wasteland?

or maybe it's all part of the bubble...but they were then doomed to die when winter really hit because they'd have centuries of winter...they were all doomed to die

Kilgharrah
June 14th, 2011, 06:54 PM
One other explanation is that the trees are dead, but still standing.

Skydiver
June 14th, 2011, 07:45 PM
which would make sense...if it wasn't for the leaves :)

If the plants were in the loop with them and subject to the time dilation, then people on the outside should see the trees lose leaves and die off every night.

But if the trees and plants weren't in the same time dilation as them - as in not subject to it - then they'd take years to flower and grow seeds and food.

Kilgharrah
June 14th, 2011, 10:21 PM
which would make sense...if it wasn't for the leaves :)
If seen dead trees with leaves. Don't ask me how, but I'm sure. They're just outside my window.

Ibn Rushd
June 15th, 2011, 12:25 PM
Just watched this. It apparently airs one week later in Canada, on Space channel. This was the second ep. that I've seen, the other one had a giant bug.

Very interesting about time-dilations. I've been watching Voyager and TNG lately and some recent eps are about time travel.

About the plants: agree with you all about them being dead after the first night. I watched a tv doc. about plants and light/dark cycles. They need a regular cycle to stay alive, otherwise they die. With a prolonged night, they can't produce photosynthesi, turn yellow, and wilt. With too long a day, they burn out their energy, shrivel up and dry out, and die.

Very good to see the standard military answer to the "unknown" is to blow it up. At least they haven't changed. And I like seeing Pendergast on the show. :P

Skydiver
June 20th, 2011, 07:45 PM
so, after Jimmy in Penance....just how many Tunisian fire elementals are there?

Kilgharrah
June 20th, 2011, 07:56 PM
Finally got a chance for a rewatch and I have a question,
What exactly happened the first time they activated the device? Did time go faster? This part was confusing. And why were they crying? It felt like they were.


A question containing a spoiler about next episode
Do the events of "Out of the blue" have to do anything with the one who made the time dilation field? I was waiting for an answer on that episode. Maybe I missed it. Did that snake creature have anything to do with it? I'm lost.

Skydiver
June 21st, 2011, 04:32 AM
for out of the blue


it is kinda tied into Adam. Largely in that

and this spoils the ending


the critter in out of hte blue came from praxis...so adam's experiments in hollow earth forced the out of hte blue abby to the surface, making the episode happen

in the dome, their first experiment did 'crack' the bubble, resetting time for a few seconds. Since the bubble is faster than real time, anyone and anything living in it do not exist outside the bubble....so let's say it's 2134 inside the bubble, outside it's 2012 (i'm just making up the years by the way), but when you burst the bubble you go form 2134 to 2012 and anyone and anything inside the bubble doesn't exist yet, so it pops out of existence.

so anyone inside the bubble that isn't from 2012 - rave, magnus and will - will cease to exist the second the bubble is burst. which is what happened. Anna, Josie, they all stopped existing....did they die? well they simply weren't born yet.

same applies to any stuff they made.

the one question that wasn't answered....there were people inside the bubble when it started, but it seems if you died in the bubble, you stayed dead, but if you were born in the bubble, you couldn't exist in 2012 so you popped out of existence.

Julian
June 21st, 2011, 05:27 AM
^I guess that's the issue with shows doing time travel and time dilation fields; because it's not "real" (I don't know if it's theoretically possible? -shrug-), it's up to every show to make their own interpretation of what would happen (just like all the different stories about vampires and they're always different...).

Kilgharrah
June 21st, 2011, 08:08 AM
the one question that wasn't answered....there were people inside the bubble when it started, but it seems if you died in the bubble, you stayed dead, but if you were born in the bubble, you couldn't exist in 2012 so you popped out of existence.

You can't get someone back from the dead.



Another thing wasn't mentioned and I really wanted to know it. The dome can't just simply end at the earth's surface. IT's a sphere, so it's base can't be flat like the earth's surface. Some part should have continued inside hollow earth and it must have had the same effect down there. Maybe even that small part is where Adam's time dilation field devices are. The only problem is, the Praxians should have found out by now. They should have discovered the sphere.

Kilgharrah
June 21st, 2011, 08:08 AM
the one question that wasn't answered....there were people inside the bubble when it started, but it seems if you died in the bubble, you stayed dead, but if you were born in the bubble, you couldn't exist in 2012 so you popped out of existence.

You can't get someone back from the dead.



Another thing wasn't mentioned and I really wanted to know it. The dome can't just simply end at the earth's surface. IT's a sphere, so it's base can't be flat like the earth's surface. Some part should have continued inside hollow earth and it must have had the same effect down there. Maybe even that small part is where Adam's time dilation field devices are. The only problem is, the Praxians should have found out by now. They should have discovered the sphere.

Julian
June 21st, 2011, 06:08 PM
^Not if they were dead. But who knows, the Praxians were seemingly capable of so much yet they failed at so many things?

Huaracocha
June 22nd, 2011, 02:38 PM
The Praxians, being a fiercely logical people, were deeply disturbed by the many inherent contradictions of rational logic (as discussed in this thread) being displayed by the time dilation field. So they simply erected an SEP (Somebody Else's Problem) Field around it and ignored it.

Matt G
July 26th, 2011, 02:48 PM
1. Was surprised at the easy recognition of Ravi.

2. Really, they could have set this anywhere - didn't seem like there was much connection between Normandy and Carenten other than the mention of the fire elemental which may or may not have something to do with this.

3. Yeah, this was a little bit Stargatey.

4. 150 year old ipods - flipping hell.

5. Definately liked the Declan and Kate show.

Fun ep.

mathpiglet
March 19th, 2012, 01:57 PM
I kept thinking about Stephen King's "Under the Dome".

Starsaber
September 29th, 2012, 03:09 PM
Just watched this today and it looked like that private security force had SGC surplus P-90s. Got a bit of a chuckle out of that.