PDA

View Full Version : Normandy (317)



GateWorld
April 18th, 2011, 07:43 AM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/sanctuary/s3/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/normandy-160x120.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">SANCTUARY SEASON THREE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/sanctuary/s3/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">NORMANDY</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 317</FONT>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0;">In a look back to World War II, this episode finds Magnus, Watson and Griffin on the eve of D-Day ... and discover Magnus’s role in one of the most important events that shaped the world. <I>(SPACE)</I></DIV>
<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/sanctuary/s3/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Mandysg1
May 23rd, 2011, 08:25 PM
This was a very good period piece! The style they used in filming was very good, and what can we say about Helen :D Well this time istead of a gun bum, it was a rifle bum :P I loved the iteractions between the 5, John and James was exceptional during the torture scene :eek:

There were so many great scenes with Helen, when she was captured and brought back to where James was being held...awesome, loved how she talked to the Nazi :D

Ah yes I did enjoy the tank too, very well done, made it a believable scene, like yes they were in WW2. I also enjoyed the actress playing the French resistence leader, they had some very good secondary characters in this episode. So, great writing, great directing and yes, very very good acting :D

LadyGalaxyJ
May 23rd, 2011, 08:30 PM
I currently have a hard time forming coherent thoughts, so I will just say that I really LOVED this episode. It wasn't all thrill as I had expected, but, as the cast and crew said in the last interview I've been reading, it's the FEELING. I can't quite put it into words. There's wasn't a single moment I didn't like. The pace of the episode was just fine with me, for an episode as huge as this one. As usual, everything ended well, though, I was afraid for a two-parter. ;P

And I liked the dedication at the end. :)

There were wonderful moments in the whole episode with The Five. Each of them. Was that French girl Clara's mother?
I knew John couldn't be really working for the Nazis and I was waiting for him to wave that officer out. I thought it took him long enough, but maybe that was his way of torturing James because he learned he was with Helen now... Knowing John (and with the scene between to two), it had probably something to do with that. ;P
I loved every Nikola scene. How he was with the group while being in London.

I do question the use of Robin Dunne as Will's grandfather though. I think I would have prefered another actor. To me, he sounded too much like Will, and I had a hard time seeing the other character. MHO. ;)

LadyGalaxyJ
May 23rd, 2011, 08:32 PM
This was a very good period piece! The style they used in filming was very good, and what can we say about Helen :D Well this time istead of a gun bum, it was a rifle bum :P I loved the iteractions between the 5, John and James was exceptional during the torture scene :eek:

There were so many great scenes with Helen, when she was captured and brought back to where James was being held...awesome, loved how she talked to the Nazi :D

Ah yes I did enjoy the tank too, very well done, made it a believable scene, like yes they were in WW2. I also enjoyed the actress playing the French resistence leader, they had some very good secondary characters in this episode. So, great writing, great directing and yes, very very good acting :D
I think Mandy sums it really well! :D

And you're absolutely right on the torture scene! Kuddos to Peter Wingfield! I believed every single minute of it. I was hurting for him.

Mandysg1
May 23rd, 2011, 08:37 PM
I currently have a hard time forming coherent thoughts, so I will just say that I really LOVED this episode. It wasn't all thrill as I had expected, but, as the cast and crew said in the last interview I've been reading, it's the FEELING. I can't quite put it into words. There's wasn't a single moment I didn't like. The pace of the episode was just fine with me, for an episode as huge as this one. As usual, everything ended well, though, I was afraid for a two-parter. ;P

And I liked the dedication at the end. :)

There were wonderful moments in the whole episode with The Five. Each of them. Was that French girl Clara's mother?
I knew John couldn't be really working for the Nazis and I was waiting for him to wave that officer out. I thought it took him long enough, but maybe that was his way of torturing James because he learned he was with Helen now... Knowing John (and with the scene between to two), it had probably something to do with that. ;P
I loved every Nikola scene. How he was with the group while being in London.

I do question the use of Robin Dunne as Will's grandfather though. I think I would have prefered another actor. To me, he sounded to much like Will, and I had a hard time seeing the other character. MHO. ;)

Yea, I have to agree with you on that one, it was a bit odd having him there.

yamiinsane
May 23rd, 2011, 09:03 PM
It was an awesome episode, I have to say. Despite the fact that my head was hurting like you wouldn't believe the whole way through.... Loved Nikola's scenes and how he figured out the traitor. And I do agree with Robin playing Will's grandfather as well. The role was well played but I kept thinking that it was Will and not his grandfather.

Can't wait to rewatch this one. :)

KayLyne
May 23rd, 2011, 09:03 PM
First of all, my brain needs to get past the word “Wow” when thinking of this episode.

I was a bit surprised that there was no intro/outro from the current day Sanctuary as to why we’re seeing this look into the past of The Five during the war. I was expecting Helen to be telling Will, Henry or Kate a story about those exploits. However, I’m glad to have had more time with “The Fab Five” back in their heyday.

I find it kind of funny that Tesla was (once again) left behind from the main action – and pouting about it as well. I was not really surprised to see John on the side of the Nazis to begin with. However, I did figure that he was working some sort of “inside plan” that was going to help the rest of the gang.

It was great to see much more of Nigel Griffin (and I don’t mean the naked part!) I really wish both he & Watson would still be alive in present day. It would be great to see more current day exploits with The Fab Five all together again.

As usual, when it comes to the Fab Five, I really enjoyed their interaction with each other – including Druitt & Watson, where John knew how to torture James, and take it just far enough to where it didn’t cross the line. Their banter over Helen’s affections was lovely as well. On that note, I also wasn’t surprised to hear that James & Helen had some kind of relationship back then. It’s been hinted at previously a few times. Her calling James “darling” was quite sweet. It kind of gives me a new look to the scene at the end of season 1 where Watson dies in the tunnels while Helen & John watch him take his last breath. I totally adored the scene with John, James & Helen.

I also really loved the continuity that this episode had. The return of the Tunisian Fire Elemental, the autotype, Watson’s suit that keeps him alive, etc.

I liked how they brought Will’s grandfather into the story. But, I was somehow hoping that they’d include ancestors from Henry & Kate at some point as well, making it all seem to come full circle.

As usual, the banter back & forth was great:
Helen/Jeanette: “you should know we deal with monsters” – “I deal with Nazis. I'd say we’re even.”
Druitt to Watson: “I know you’re not afraid to die, James. But I plan to make you afraid to live”
Nazi Guy/Helen: “May I call you Helen?” – “Absolutely NOT!”
“Better than a comic book”
Griffin: “Just get him out of there before they make him Hitler’s houseboy”
“the enemy of my enemy is my friend” – raise your hand if you thought of Stargate’s “The crystal skull” episode when he said that!

To a person that’s not a big fan of Helen & the rest of The Five, I can understand how this episode might be considered a bit “slow”. However, as a viewer who absolutely adores The Fab Five – this episode was absolutely awesome. I even thought about this being similar to episodes of the old classic tv show, “Combat”, which I loved back in the day. (is that showing my age?!)

Heaven forbid the day that Sanctuary actually ends, but I dare say MAD could be successful in making full-length movies of just exploits of The Five.

ETA:
who was the main Nazi guy? He looks very familiar.

RTechnik
May 23rd, 2011, 09:35 PM
Great Episode with the whole 5, only one think was strange, seeing tussian T-55 representing german PZ-IV tank, they could at least remove fenders and mask wheels.
Tesla was too valuable to ber sent to the France, and Will's grandfather as one of the paratroopers :D could Helen be his Gradmother?

Rocky89
May 23rd, 2011, 09:39 PM
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp337/Rocky89_03/Helen_claps.gif Wow, what a great adventure, Normandy was a phenomenal episode. Brilliant story, acting, effects, music and it was just an epic story of history told tonight :) I loved the dedication at the end, it was such a great way to end the episode, and to give thanks to the US army. :)

I loved how they really pushed this episode like this, it was such a great way to tell a WW2 story, everything Amanda said about it in her Skype interview was right, I didn't really feel the "sci-fi" element, but you could tell it was there. ;) The whole tone and feel to the episode really gave you that impression that this was really an old WW2 show or movie we were watching, and I think they succeeded in what they wanted to do with the episode. I love how it started with 3 of The Five, and how they were able to take down some Nazi dudes, and I love how they introduced Helen as a redhead. :) Oh, and we had to hear her "bloody hell" line. ;)

What I liked seeing a lot was that each member of The Five had an important role in the ep, even though they weren't together, they were still a team, and I liked that. That scene where Watson was shot, could that be how he got those leg braces? Also, that scene when we see Helen in the back of the car, was a good moment, because you could tell she was afraid for what could happen to him. Seeing John do that to Watson was a little hard to watch, but, hey, better him than Helen. :p The twist where John was actually still on their side, and wanted to free Watson was really good, even more when we saw that he couldn't use his powers to get out of the building. I thought it was cool seeing them use that machine again to communicate, and I'm glad we saw how important it was in the war. Hehe, I laughed at Nigel's "She likes me line" it was so sweet. :) I thought it was kinda cool seeing Robin play his own great-- or just grandfather or what ever, but I was hoping Helen and him could have met. I think this is the first episode where there's been no Helen-Will interaction. :p

I loved the music when Helen was talking to that solider outside the hideout. So romantic, and it was so cool hearing her speak French. :) The scene with her, Watson, John and the Nazi dude was short, but well done. I look at Helen, John and Watson as kind of a love triangle, there's John, the man who broke her heart, and Watson, the man who put her heart back together. :) I loved Helen giving the Nazi dude attitude when he asked if he could call her Helen. ;) I really wasn't expecting the guy Tesla was with to be bad, but, hey, it was still cool to see Tesla as a vamp. :p

Overall, it was a fantastic episode, it was a great story, we saw a big part of history told in a cool and different way, they stop the bad guy, saved the day, and helped end the war. ;) This episode was most definitely a win, and I hope to see it get at least some kind of award nom for it. ;)

dosed150
May 23rd, 2011, 10:01 PM
I currently have a hard time forming coherent thoughts, so I will just say that I really LOVED this episode. It wasn't all thrill as I had expected, but, as the cast and crew said in the last interview I've been reading, it's the FEELING. I can't quite put it into words. There's wasn't a single moment I didn't like. The pace of the episode was just fine with me, for an episode as huge as this one. As usual, everything ended well, though, I was afraid for a two-parter. ;P

And I liked the dedication at the end. :)

There were wonderful moments in the whole episode with The Five. Each of them. Was that French girl Clara's mother?
I knew John couldn't be really working for the Nazis and I was waiting for him to wave that officer out. I thought it took him long enough, but maybe that was his way of torturing James because he learned he was with Helen now... Knowing John (and with the scene between to two), it had probably something to do with that. ;P
I loved every Nikola scene. How he was with the group while being in London.

I do question the use of Robin Dunne as Will's grandfather though. I think I would have prefered another actor. To me, he sounded too much like Will, and I had a hard time seeing the other character. MHO. ;)

thats exactly what i thought about the resistance leader

didnt the text say tesla was in portsmouth

i thought robin dunne did alrite, the voice was very similar but a little different, so you could tell they were related

wouldnt magnus and the others had Sten guns not thompsons, but at least we saw the resistance leader and griffin using stens later

KayLyne
May 23rd, 2011, 10:07 PM
Was that French girl Clara's mother?
If anything, it would actually have to be grandmother... right? Since Clara was Nigel's granddaughter.

LadyGalaxyJ
May 23rd, 2011, 10:08 PM
If anything, it would actually have to be grandmother... right? Since Clara was Nigel's granddaughter.
Yeah. That's what I meant. Oops. :o;)

AresLover452
May 23rd, 2011, 10:27 PM
this episode so totaly rocked that my brain is still processing it all!! imean WOW!! OH HOLY FRAKKING GODS!!! I MEAN WHOA!!!

Tomorrow I should be able to actually have something constructive to say... lol!

blazingfire
May 24th, 2011, 12:33 AM
this episode so totaly rocked that my brain is still processing it all!! imean WOW!! OH HOLY FRAKKING GODS!!! I MEAN WHOA!!!

Tomorrow I should be able to actually have something constructive to say... lol!

Totally agreed with ya!!!

This was such an awesome episode. Many times over.
Thank you Sanctuary for giving us such great stuff!!!

jasminaGo
May 24th, 2011, 01:13 AM
OK, fangirl crush time.

This is the Sanctuary I love, and the memory of One Night and Wingman is like a bad dream after the last two weeks.

First of all, great to see The Five in action again. This is the kind of episode I've been waiting for since they were first mentioned in SFA. Taking a piece of history and making it their own with a unique twist.

Second, the interactions between the characters were at the highest level, especially between the Five. Tesla was his usual snarky brilliant self, Druitt was playing his own agenda, and it was nice to see more of Griffin. The Helen and James thing was a bit of a surprise (tho' not a huge one). I wonder when it started and when it ended, cause they obviously weren't together for some time before James died (I doubt Helen would have had John's child if she was still with James). Either way, it'll be nice to see more of their history over the years, especially some more John/James interaction.

One thing I didn't like, as few people mentioned above was RD playing Will's grandfather. Same actors playing ancestors of their regular characters is weird and distracting IMO, I mean how hard is it to find someone who looks a bit similar to pass as a grandfather?

All in all still one of the best eps in the series for me, and definitely the best in this half season so far.

Inquisitor
May 24th, 2011, 02:58 AM
I thought Dunne looked different enough for it to pass, but it was my least favourite part of the episode.

That said, this is one of my favourite episodes so far. It's good to see The Five in action since season one's close. I'd love it if there were more episodes such as this one.

I wonder if this episode will be referenced later down the track?

Skydiver
May 24th, 2011, 04:21 AM
I too had the 'is she clara's grand mother' thought.

it wasn't bad, i enjoyed it. I had a hard time watching it because the sound was just horribly mixed. It was like a typical hollywood movie in that the music and background noise was so loud you literally can't hear them talking. i had my tv cranked to 30 and still couldn't hear. (it's normally in the teens volume wise)

the accents only made things worse

I need to listen via headphones and read the transcript to 'get' what they were saying most of the time.

as for the combat....well it was no band of brothers :) but it wasn't too bad.

will being his own grandfather didn't bug me, although I'd had a thought that maybe he was 'barney' and setting up for him to join helen's little sanctuary team...or that we'd get more on the birth of the sanctuary system.

it was fun to see all of the five together, and yeah, they'd make a decent show on their own.

Cekay
May 24th, 2011, 05:00 AM
I did quite like this episode. Nothing on awakening for me but hey I'm a teslen fan.

Firstly if Helen hadn't called James "darling" I would have missed the relationship entirely. I thought the Druitt/James scene had more emotion between those two than later on with James and Helen..
I would have been more inclined to see a slight druitt/james either *extra* brotherly or almost.. shippy? rather than actually see James and Helen together.
I don't normally look at slash cause it never seems even remotely canon but the whole:

James: Don't dig too deeply, you don't know how much you hurt her.
Druitt: Hurt her.. or you??

Though a Helen/James relationship makes sense, they were a lot alike and had the benefit of what? 50-60 years friends at that point. I just didn't feel it as strongly as I do Magnett or Teslen scenes.

=/ Typical shipper I always look for the ships first.

I didn't mind Dunne either, I wish they gave him a way stronger accent..

I loved Nigel "Look I don't know how it works, I wasn't paying attention."
:lol: Exactly as I picture him being!

I had the same Nigel/frenchladywhosenameIhaveforgotten would end up getting together and end up being Clara's grandparents.

Interesting that James made himself a machine to keep himself young but didn't make one for Nigel? Or maybe he chose to grow old with the woman he loved.

I gotta rewatch it when I'm less tired but good episode!

Chelle DB
May 24th, 2011, 06:44 AM
Heaven forbid the day that Sanctuary actually ends, but I dare say MAD could be successful in making full-length movies of just exploits of The Five.
Totally agree with you on that. :)
I can officially say this is now my all time favourite epsiode of Sanctuary yet. Brillaint acting all round...directing, photography, sound...just absolutely top quality.
Love the love between Helen/James/Druitt...love Nigel...love Tesla...totally fantastic ep.
Peter Wingfield did a brilliant job...surely a prize winning performance.
I love the dedication made at the end of the episode...very touching.
Best epsiode ever...well done team Sanctuary. :)

LadyGalaxyJ
May 24th, 2011, 07:01 AM
OK, fangirl crush time.

This is the Sanctuary I love, and the memory of One Night and Wingman is like a bad dream after the last two weeks.

First of all, great to see The Five in action again. This is the kind of episode I've been waiting for since they were first mentioned in SFA. Taking a piece of history and making it their own with a unique twist.

Second, the interactions between the characters were at the highest level, especially between the Five. Tesla was his usual snarky brilliant self, Druitt was playing his own agenda, and it was nice to see more of Griffin. The Helen and James thing was a bit of a surprise (tho' not a huge one). I wonder when it started and when it ended, cause they obviously weren't together for some time before James died (I doubt Helen would have had John's child if she was still with James). Either way, it'll be nice to see more of their history over the years, especially some more John/James interaction.

One thing I didn't like, as few people mentioned above was RD playing Will's grandfather. Same actors playing ancestors of their regular characters is weird and distracting IMO, I mean how hard is it to find someone who looks a bit similar to pass as a grandfather?

All in all still one of the best eps in the series for me, and definitely the best in this half season so far.
I completly agree with Jas. :)
And re-the bolded: I wonder that too. And Ashley refers to him as Uncle James IIRC in Revelations. Maybe James simply didn't want to be the father to John's child and that's what ended their relationship as a couple. But rewatching it, I can see a little more than friendship between Helen and James throughout the episode. It's the glances between the two.

Arthurb65
May 24th, 2011, 08:37 AM
What is the name of the lieutenant? Is he the same guy that was in the Jesse Stone recent movie with the name of "Lewis?"
'

Rocky89
May 24th, 2011, 08:52 AM
Totally agree with you on that. :)
I can officially say this is now my all time favourite epsiode of Sanctuary yet. Brillaint acting all round...directing, photography, sound...just absolutely top quality.
Love the love between Helen/James/Druitt...love Nigel...love Tesla...totally fantastic ep.
Peter Wingfield did a brilliant job...surely a prize winning performance.
I love the dedication made at the end of the episode...very touching.
Best episode ever...well done team Sanctuary. :)

Many fans loved the ep last night, twitter was full of them. :) I can only think of one other "Sci-fi" show that could change it's entire tone, look, feel, and what not to match what the episode needed to do. SGA's Vegas episode. ;) It didn't feel like I was watching SGA, but an episode of CSI and I love that Sanctuary was able to do this as SGA did. :)

This episode is now one of my top faves, up there with Breach ;) and I hope to see this episode at least earn a couple of Gemini noms. ;) And yes, the dedication at the end was wonderful. :)

kes
May 24th, 2011, 09:14 AM
Didnt disappoint and I was expecting a lot. One of my fav eps so far. The Five is the best thing about this show and maybe this ep doesnt reach fav because they werent all together. But it worked cos they all know each other so well.
One thing is bugging me thou. James mention Druitt took blood (I'm assuming from Helen) and Watson already has the machine. So how is Griffin still young?

Gem of Tigress
May 24th, 2011, 09:47 AM
Overall Great eppy! :) loved that the five were back, and of course seeing Tesla again is always fun. i also got the "is the french lady Clara's Grandmother?" vibe. wasn't bothered by Will playing his grandfather, wish Helen could have met him, it would have been interesting. Loved this one. :D

Jeffer
May 24th, 2011, 10:14 AM
So how is Griffin still young?

Perhaps with going invisible all the time it slows his aging process. maybe every time he becomes visible again it rebuilds his body to the point it was when he first took the blood and got the power.

siles
May 24th, 2011, 10:18 AM
I had such a nice review as I watched this episode - one of the best - but the forum ate it. I'll try to remember it from memory

1. WTF? How did we get from 2011 to 1944 in Normandy - is it a dream or a memory? Hope it gets explained later...
2. What does a T-55 tank do in Normandy and how come the German officer doesn't recognize it?
3. Redhead Magnus for the win :D
4. How come Griffin is so young?
5. If Watson designed the weather machine how come the Allies don't have one to counteract the Nazis one?
6. Fire elemental was cool - is Helen dealing with a Fire elemental in present time and did this trigger a memory or dream about 1944 Normandy?
7. At first I really thought Druitt was working for the Nazis, but then it dawned on me that had that been the case they would have won the war as he would have been able to time travel and give them advanced info abut future technologies
8. Is the French resistance girl Clara's (sp?) granpa.
9. I didn't think Will's granpa would die or Tesla's aide was a traitor - total surprise.
All in all a great episode - my only complain is that I couldn't find a connection to "Awakening"
P.S. Loved the dedication at the end.

kes
May 24th, 2011, 10:45 AM
I had such a nice review as I watched this episode - one of the best - but the forum ate it. I'll try to remember it from memory



Its happening to me a lot too.


Perhaps with going invisible all the time it slows his aging process. maybe every time he becomes visible again it rebuilds his body to the point it was when he first took the blood and got the power.

:S Don't like that.

KayLyne
May 24th, 2011, 10:51 AM
So how is Griffin still young?
well, from what I recall - they each took at least a tiny part of the vampire blood in the original experimenet, which is how they got their powers. I'm guessing that had something to do with them all having some form of extra longevity, which varied depending on the person - it's just that Helen's longevity seems to have become the most prolonged. However, back in Revelations (I think) we hear that at present day, Watson died "over half a century ago", which would mean not very long after these events of Normandy - since this was in 1944, I'm guessing only about a decade or less. I don't think we've heard exactly how he died. Maybe it was old age, maybe it was as he was invisible and doing something he shouldn't have. The Nazi guy in this eppy said that both Helen & James were around 80 years old here. So, I'm guessing that Griffin would be approximately the same.

Kilgharrah
May 24th, 2011, 11:16 AM
What an awesome episode!!!
To quote Helen, 'Dear God!!!'
I wasn't that keen on watching it when I watched the promo, but I was wrong.
I never thought I would be that happy to see Robin Dunne. I hate him as much as I hate Will, but it was great to see his grandfather. I loved that character.
Liked knowing more about Griffin. We don't get to see him much. Same goes for Watson, but we see Watson a lot more.
So Let's see,
1- I can't see Helen and Watson as a couple.
2- What's wrong with this woman??? Is she trying all the men in the group??? How stupid is that.
3- I think that this episode was just a build-up.
4- After this episode, I really really like Watson and the actor is so talented. I felt his agony. WOW!!!!
5- I like seeing Helen in charge. She really knows what she's doing.
6- Tesla never ceases to amaze me. That brilliant mind. I'm surprised I didn't see it. The betrayal of that guy. Normally I figure things out at the beginning, but it was different this time.
7- Jonathan Young's acting is great. I like that actor. I can't believe he hasn't got bigger roles yet.
8- I think they meant to say that the woman with Griffin is Clara's grandmother coz she looks like her.
9- I was surprised this time, because I didn't like Heyerdahl's acting. He used to be great. What happened????
10- The burned retinas and the elemental were great. But they were too much IMO.
11- Loved the idea of the accents and I liked Griffin's

Just one problem,
Isn't Watson supposed to look younger? He was supposed to keep his young look that we saw in Victorian England, but he looks older.

Edit:At first, I thought Will's grandfather was Will himself, time travelling. This is much better.

Kilgharrah
May 24th, 2011, 11:26 AM
I had such a nice review as I watched this episode - one of the best - but the forum ate it. I'll try to remember it from memory

4. How come Griffin is so young?
5. If Watson designed the weather machine how come the Allies don't have one to counteract the Nazis one?
All in all a great episode - my only complain is that I couldn't find a connection to "Awakening"
P.S. Loved the dedication at the end.
4. I thought Griffin was a bit old, but not old enough. I just didn't think about it much. A bit old is enough for me.
5. Maybe they didn't wanna do it that way. They wanted to win fair and square.

I had the same problem with this episode, but I think we'll see the connection later. Can't wait!!!!

Spimman
May 24th, 2011, 11:28 AM
7. At first I really thought Druitt was working for the Nazis, but then it dawned on me that had that been the case they would have won the war as he would have been able to time travel and give them advanced info abut future technologies

Is it still canon that he can time travel? I was thinking that was only in the webisodes and now he can only teleport.


Awesome episode, if not a little random. I would have loved for this to be one of a series of 2-parters that focused on the past activities of the five. Maybe give them more of a TV-Special separate and apart from the series, I think it could draw a bigger audience and bring in new viewers to the show!

KayLyne
May 24th, 2011, 11:56 AM
Just one problem,
Isn't Watson supposed to look younger? He was supposed to keep his young look that we saw in Victorian England, but he looks older.
Thus the need for his life-saving body machine?

siles
May 24th, 2011, 11:56 AM
Is it still canon that he can time travel? I was thinking that was only in the webisodes and now he can only teleport.


Awesome episode, if not a little random. I would have loved for this to be one of a series of 2-parters that focused on the past activities of the five. Maybe give them more of a TV-Special separate and apart from the series, I think it could draw a bigger audience and bring in new viewers to the show!

If he can't time travel how did he survive so many years? He isn't a vampire like Tesla!

jasminaGo
May 24th, 2011, 12:05 PM
If he can't time travel how did he survive so many years? He isn't a vampire like Tesla!

Helen's blood is keeping him alive.

from Sanctuary For all

WILL
My God...you treated one of the most notorious serial killers of all time.


HELEN
He wasn't always that. He was dying. I gave him my blood to prolong his life, but it all went wrong.

James mentions it in this ep too I think.

blazingfire
May 24th, 2011, 12:09 PM
If he can't time travel how did he survive so many years? He isn't a vampire like Tesla!

It's certainly possible that the source blood gave them all some form of longevity.

blazingfire
May 24th, 2011, 12:18 PM
And now we know why Helen was so interested in Will in the first place.

''He won't be forgotten'' she says...

mjwalshe
May 24th, 2011, 12:32 PM
thats exactly what i thought about the resistance leader

didnt the text say tesla was in portsmouth

i thought robin dunne did alrite, the voice was very similar but a little different, so you could tell they were related

wouldn't magnus and the others had Sten guns not thompsons, but at least we saw the resistance leader and griffin using stens later

Well some Thompson where sent over lend lease there's a famous pic of Churchill toting one - i suspect that Helen gets the pic of the crop the early stens where a bit cheap and chearfull and prone to going off if you looked at them in the wrong way.

Mandysg1
May 24th, 2011, 12:38 PM
If he can't time travel how did he survive so many years? He isn't a vampire like Tesla!

Spimman was right, Druitt can't time travel like in the webisodes, he only teleports. If you recall season 1 (not sure if it was the first episode or not), but the reason for John kidnapping Ashley was to get a hold of Helen's blood, which he used to keep him from aging.

meredithchandler73
May 24th, 2011, 12:59 PM
I. LOVED. THIS. EPISODE!!!

I didn't take notes, so here are my rambling thoughts:
--Helen looked wonderful in this episode. Liked the hairstyle and the red hair. But then - I just don't think it is possible for Helen not to look gorgeous.
--I really loved the "Darling" moment. I don't necessarily ship Helen and James, but it makes sense that they would turn to each other. I'm sure James has been in love with Helen for as long as he's known her. And after so many years of living - with most people they know dying off - it wouldn't surprise me that they'd turn to each other. Who understands them better than each other?
--I often get the show backstory mixed up between the webisodes and the series.
--Helen Magnus speaking French and flirting with the soldier...OMG!!! The moment the music changed to the romantic violins, I almost fell off my chair. I thought Amanda played the whole thing brilliantly! Which is to say, Helen played the whole thing brilliantly. :) It was so fun to see Helen playing the helpless French woman. None of Helen's usual authoritative air. But she didn't go overboard with the helplessness either. I can't get enough of this little scene!!!
--I try to stay away from spoilers, so I didn't know Druitt would be in this episode at all. That was an awesome surprise! Also that Druitt tried to kill Hitler, believed he failed, but he actually succeeded! Very cool twists.
--I love the dynamics between all members of The Five. I'm sorry Tesla couldn't join the gang, but he was still enjoyable in his scenes.
--Cool that James invented a weather machine (on paper) but the plans were stolen by the Nazis. And then the twist that it wasn't the weather machine that was the Nazi's secret weapon. The Fire Elemental was a nice callback to End of Days.
--I think we're all led to believe the French resistance leader turns out to be Clara's grandmother. I thought that was rather cute.
--Robin Dunne could have been playing Will's grandfather...or his grandfather's brother or cousin. Robin did fine in his role, but I didn't feel his inclusion was really necessary.
--No one knows how old James was when he invented his "age-defying machine" so I don't know what age is supposed to be his "constant". I don't assume that his machine could really keep him from aging at all - maybe just slow it down considerably. So by the time we met him in the present, the machine was more involved and covered his full body - and yet we see he has aged more than Helen has.
--There really wasn't an explanation as to why Nigel didn't look older. Unless, as someone else posited, all of The Five aged slower due to the source blood - but at different rates. Helen aged the very slowest. It would also help explain why Druitt hasn't aged a bit. But those questions are minor quibbles which didn't detract from my enjoyment of the episode!
--One more quibble - basically, a continuity error in the series. The autotype messages came out typed differently in Trail of Blood than in Normandy. (Remember how Tesla's SOS looked like?) Again - not enough to lessen my enjoyment of the episode.

kes
May 24th, 2011, 01:02 PM
And now we know why Helen was so interested in Will in the first place.

''He won't be forgotten'' she says...

Will doesnt want secrets. Do you think she told him?


well, from what I recall - they each took at least a tiny part of the vampire blood in the original experimenet, which is how they got their powers. I'm guessing that had something to do with them all having some form of extra longevity, which varied depending on the person - it's just that Helen's longevity seems to have become the most prolonged. However, back in Revelations (I think) we hear that at present day, Watson died "over half a century ago", which would mean not very long after these events of Normandy - since this was in 1944, I'm guessing only about a decade or less. I don't think we've heard exactly how he died. Maybe it was old age, maybe it was as he was invisible and doing something he shouldn't have. The Nazi guy in this eppy said that both Helen & James were around 80 years old here. So, I'm guessing that Griffin would be approximately the same.
I think they say he died in the early sixties.
But doing that takes a bit from Magnus ability. You know?

Dvorak Symphony No. 8
May 24th, 2011, 02:35 PM
Maybe John wasn't the only one who got shots of Helen's life-prolonging blood. Maybe she gave it to Griffin and Watson too but it was less effective in their cases and that's why they lived so long but eventually died. Come to think of it, Helen's blood might have been an essential ingredient in Watson's suit.

Kilgharrah
May 24th, 2011, 02:43 PM
Maybe John wasn't the only one who got shots of Helen's life-prolonging blood. Maybe she gave it to Griffin and Watson too but it was less effective in their cases and that's why they lived so long but eventually died. Come to think of it, Helen's blood might have been an essential ingredient in Watson's suit.
Watson only lived long because of the suit and it didn't prolong his life. It kept him at a certain age. He never aged. Helen on the other hand ages, but she does it so slowly. Once the suit stopped working he rapidly aged and died. That's why his suit can't have been based on Helen's blood.

majorsal
May 24th, 2011, 03:35 PM
i'm going to review without reading others thoughts first. :p

i'll admit, i wasn't 100 percent interested in the storyline for 'normandy', so i came into the ep without having the super interest i wanted. i liked the ep last night (but had my usual trouble hearing the dialog), but i rewatched it today and REALLY like it now. :p (and the rewatch let me hear the dialog i couldn't last night)

and example of what not being able to hear does to a scene: when the nazi was interrogating helen and james, i thought HE was an abnormal too. i couldn't hear what helen said to him, about his eyes being burnt and what would do that to him, so i just assumed he was one of hitler's abby fighters. also, i didn't know WHY the five were there to begin with. i couldn't hear when it was revealed that james had built the weather machine and they were trying to get it back. :mckay: @ not hearing things

anyways, a very interesting and well done ep! :D


random:

i wanted more helen in the ep. :p

helen and james were an item? she called him darling, right? :p

did not like the john-james torture scene. in the rewatch, i skipped that part. :p

GREAT effects with the colorization of the film, and the music, to give it the effect of watching one of those old black/white war movies. well done! ;)

the ending scene, where it's shown that jack zimmerman was killed, and you're hearing that beautiful music, AND then reading the dedication to the troops... that almost made me cry. :p


i'll stop now and read other's thoughts. :)

majorsal
May 24th, 2011, 03:52 PM
This was a very good period piece! The style they used in filming was very good, and what can we say about Helen :D Well this time istead of a gun bum, it was a rifle bum :P I loved the iteractions between the 5, John and James was exceptional during the torture scene :eek:



did you notice that amanda had trouble getting her gun out of her purse? :p see what happens when you're used to gunbumming it!? :p

majorsal
May 24th, 2011, 04:00 PM
Heaven forbid the day that Sanctuary actually ends, but I dare say MAD could be successful in making full-length movies of just exploits of The Five.


agree!! 'The Five' could be an off-shoot of sanctuary, and be it's own show or movies! :p

majorsal
May 24th, 2011, 04:06 PM
Tesla was too valuable to ber sent to the France, and Will's grandfather as one of the paratroopers :D could Helen be his Gradmother?

speaking of will's grandfather... tesla was the *only* one of the five to know a zimmerman was involved in their mission. would he be able to put it together with 'will', who knows? helen never heard the name of the commander that was killed, and she never saw his face either, so she never knew she met will's grandfather. kind of sad :S :p

KayLyne
May 24th, 2011, 04:14 PM
speaking of will's grandfather... tesla was the *only* one of the five to know a zimmerman was involved in their mission. would he be able to put it together with 'will', who knows? helen never heard the name of the commander that was killed, and she never saw his face either, so she never knew she met will's grandfather. kind of sad :S :p
I guess that kind of gives new meaning for the scene in Revelations where Will is introduced to Tesla, who says "Ah, the mission's necessary disposable item". Maybe he was referencing back to this incident.

majorsal
May 24th, 2011, 04:56 PM
1- I can't see Helen and Watson as a couple.
2- What's wrong with this woman??? Is she trying all the men in the group??? How stupid is that.

i could see them together. (and she's only been with john and james, not all four)

john is her true love, but james was the one that was there for her, and was a nice and normal man... it's like how i could see cuddy falling for wilson, after putting up with house's mental and anti social crapola. :p (<-- that's from the series 'house')


3- I think that this episode was just a build-up.

i didn't even think about that, until others on the live viewing thread said about this being part one. i guess that makes sense, now, being as there was no explanation why all of this was taking place in the past.


4- After this episode, I really really like Watson and the actor is so talented. I felt his agony. WOW!!!!

all the actors of the 5 are top notch! :)

majorsal
May 24th, 2011, 05:01 PM
And now we know why Helen was so interested in Will in the first place.

''He won't be forgotten'' she says...

woah, you're right. i didn't make that connection! :p

majorsal
May 24th, 2011, 05:06 PM
Well some Thompson where sent over lend lease there's a famous pic of Churchill toting one - i suspect that Helen gets the pic of the crop the early stens where a bit cheap and chearfull and prone to going off if you looked at them in the wrong way.

what??? :p

Steff
May 24th, 2011, 05:08 PM
I guess that kind of gives new meaning for the scene in Revelations where Will is introduced to Tesla, who says "Ah, the mission's necessary disposable item". Maybe he was referencing back to this incident.

Great connection KayLyne. There are so many great continuation bits in this episode.

Whytewytch
May 24th, 2011, 05:38 PM
All right, some thoughts:

1. Not a fan of WWII era in general.
2. NO HENRY! :(
3. Robin Dunne as Will's grandfather--sketchy idea at best.
4. Helen and James as an item--not a fan of that pairing. What? Is she doing the rounds like some teen-ager?
5. Can see why James & John are not BFFs.
6. Was confused as to the why for this ep. Did I miss something in the beginning--Helen having a dream, talking to the others about some object or other, or some other reason?
7. I agree, would've been better without the randomness and as a two part (although, I'm not a huge fan of that idea--see #2)
8-∞. NO HENRY! I miss my RyRo and now I have to wait two more weeks after not seeing him in the last two eps! By then, I'll be out of town for three weeks, staying with my mom who is not a fan of sci-fi to begin with. Will have to get my Henry fix with S1 & S2 on Netflix. **goes off to pout in corner about lack of Henry**

Julian
May 24th, 2011, 06:00 PM
I may be a minority here, but I was slightly disappointed with the episode. I think it would've been great to perhaps do a two-episode special, to maxamise on the budget they spent on ....

Wait, next episode is called Carentan isn't it? Because isn't that the village they were in?? So maybe it is related to this episode :/


Anyway, basically I felt they needed a bigger budget to make it work... I felt like it was just missing something but I can't quite put my finger on it.

Nitpicky things: Helen's wig (looked cheap), and her French... ugh! I wonder if she had a pronunciation coach, because even then she was mumbling and her acting in that bit was really bad too (she was trying to act all innocent and girlish). But yeah, that was cringe worthy.
The German at the start was funny too, I'm interested if the guy that James Watson was talking to was German because my sister couldn't tell.

Oh, and how hilariously annoying was the German commander? He was such a bad actor, going squeeling "I'M SUCH A FAN!!" like a school girl, and his fake german accent... eek.


Edit: maybe Carenten is about Will and Helen going tback to Carenten to recover the fire elemental?

Skydiver
May 24th, 2011, 06:35 PM
that's what i'm thinking Julian

that the next episode carries on from this one, with the fire elemental

KayLyne
May 24th, 2011, 06:38 PM
4. Helen and James as an item--not a fan of that pairing. What? Is she doing the rounds like some teen-ager?
I've seen a number of people at various places ask that same question, and I have to wonder why. We've seen her express her love & affection around all of the members of The Five. But from what we've seen & heard, Helen didn't have a romantic relationship with Griffin, Tesla, or even Adam Worth. (She did, however, mention watching the sunrise with one of The Beatles!) Plus, considering that Helen's lived long enough for two lifetimes, I'd say she's earned the right to have at least two or more serious relationships. It's better than characters these days who have a "fling of the week".

As I see it, John & Helen have a true love that will always keep them connected, plus they will forever be connected through Ashley. However, with John's penchant for evil - and him being prone to disappearing for long periods of time - Helen turned to comfort & affection from a trusted friend who was always around, had similar interests, knew the history of Helen & John, as well as being a friend to both previously. Even in this day & age, we see that type of love occurring all the time.

majorsal
May 24th, 2011, 06:42 PM
Edit: maybe Carenten is about Will and Helen going tback to Carenten to recover the fire elemental?

oh, that's a good way of tying in the two eps! :D

JanineGrant2
May 24th, 2011, 07:07 PM
this episode was great. By far, one of the best.

the fifth man
May 24th, 2011, 07:12 PM
IMO, this was a wonderful episode. Very well done, and I loved seeing Helen and her old team in action together. The revelation about Will's grandfather was great.

JanineGrant2
May 24th, 2011, 07:39 PM
it was interesting to see more of Helen's origin story

atlantis_babe34
May 24th, 2011, 09:05 PM
The 5 yayyyy!!

Great epsiode, the music was fantastic.. Kudos!

James/ Helen relationship - would not have seen it if they didn't point it out... I see them more as friends then anything.

Loved Tesla catchung the bad Guy XD

John having his own Agenda... no suprise there :P

Griffin - Great! hes so dry! great acting :D

Will as his G/Father - thought it was a bit sketchy.... but turned out to be pretty decent :)

Helen Speaking French... *giggles*

JanineGrant2
May 24th, 2011, 10:51 PM
it was also hilarious to see John so jealous of James and Helen

sggirlky
May 25th, 2011, 03:05 AM
I enjoyed the episode and hope to see more storylines that include the 5.

Mousie
May 25th, 2011, 05:08 AM
speaking of will's grandfather... tesla was the *only* one of the five to know a zimmerman was involved in their mission. would he be able to put it together with 'will', who knows? helen never heard the name of the commander that was killed, and she never saw his face either, so she never knew she met will's grandfather. kind of sad :S :p

Did Tesla know? I don't recall that he did, as I remember it was only Nigel who knew Zimmerman's name and I don't see that he had any reason to mention it to the others. In recapping what happened when they asked he may just have said "the 56th Infantry (Or whoever they were) arrived in time to save me and helped me out when I persuaded them how important it was". Theoretically Helen might have found out his name later if she made an official mention of his bravery and wanted thanks conveyed to his family but personally I don't see that she would necessarily connect the name 50 year appart.

To me it was just a nice nod that the families had interacted much earlier than anyone knew although it would be nice to think that it came up in conversation "My grandfather died at....." "Oh really, I was there...."

[QUOTE=PrometheOSS;12645576]What an awesome episode!!!
So Let's see,
1- I can't see Helen and Watson as a couple.
2- What's wrong with this woman??? Is she trying all the men in the group??? How stupid is that.
[QUOTE]

I can, however I see it as a more friendship, comfort and companionship based relationship that has developed a physical side. Clearly John and James had a very special relationship as well and his actions hurt Helen and James to the core. It's natural that they would turn to each other especially as they spent so much time together.

I know it's each to their own but I don't have a problem with Helen being with the others (If we discover she was with Tesla and Nigel as well, but I doubt that). I don't think she's in and out of each of their beds every day and she's old enough to be with who she want's as long as it's mutual.

I don't think any of us can imagine what it must really be like to be in their situation especially Helen, who has the knowledge in her mind that she will probably outlive them all, and that by that point they had to have been starting to disconnect with society a little simply by being different. It must make her want to cling on to James for some shred of normalicy.

kes
May 25th, 2011, 05:15 AM
speaking of will's grandfather... tesla was the *only* one of the five to know a zimmerman was involved in their mission. would he be able to put it together with 'will', who knows? helen never heard the name of the commander that was killed, and she never saw his face either, so she never knew she met will's grandfather. kind of sad :S :p
I assume Magnus and Watson would like to know the name of the man that died for them. Plus, pretty sure Griffin would mention him to the others. Tell them what happen.
-----------
I dont think Magnus shacking up with Watson means she circled the group. I actually think it makes sense. The type of man he is and what happen with Druitt made they're already strong relashionship even stronger. (Plus he's HOT! :D )

meredithchandler73
May 25th, 2011, 05:48 AM
Did Tesla know? I don't recall that he did, as I remember it was only Nigel who knew Zimmerman's name and I don't see that he had any reason to mention it to the others.

The autotype message Nigel sent to Telsa said:
DRUITT IS A NAZI. HAS CAPTURED WATSON. HELEN MISSING IN ACTION. AM WITH 101ST AIRBORNE UNDER A CAPT J ZIMMERMAN. HAVE EVADED DETECTION SO FAR. PLEASE ADVISE. GRIFFIN.

But seriously, folks...how many Zimmermans are there in the world? I wouldn't believe Tesla would latch on to that last name and upon meeting Will say, "Hey, your ancestor helped save Nigel, James and Helen, and most certainly helped to defeat the Nazis!" Tesla's only concerns from that autotype message were that Druitt was a Nazi, Watson was captured and Helen missing.

kes
May 25th, 2011, 06:42 AM
The autotype message Nigel sent to Telsa said:
DRUITT IS A NAZI. HAS CAPTURED WATSON. HELEN MISSING IN ACTION. AM WITH 101ST AIRBORNE UNDER A CAPT J ZIMMERMAN. HAVE EVADED DETECTION SO FAR. PLEASE ADVISE. GRIFFIN.

But seriously, folks...how many Zimmermans are there in the world? I wouldn't believe Tesla would latch on to that last name and upon meeting Will say, "Hey, your ancestor helped save Nigel, James and Helen, and most certainly helped to defeat the Nazis!" Tesla's only concerns from that autotype message were that Druitt was a Nazi, Watson was captured and Helen missing.
I think Magnus would be the type of person that would keep an eye on the family.

Kilgharrah
May 25th, 2011, 06:59 AM
and upon meeting Will say, "Hey, your ancestor helped save Nigel, James and Helen, and most certainly helped to defeat the Nazis!"
Tesla would never say that even if he remembered. He only points out to his good traits and history. He never praises others. That's why I think it will never be mentioned.

Kilgharrah
May 25th, 2011, 07:04 AM
...I can, however I see it as a more friendship, comfort and companionship based relationship that has developed a physical side...
...I don't think any of us can imagine what it must really be like to be in their situation especially Helen, who has the knowledge in her mind that she will probably outlive them all, and that by that point they had to have been starting to disconnect with society a little simply by being different. It must make her want to cling on to James for some shred of normalicy.
I never said they don't look as friends. Actually they were the most convincing one as friends. They are the closest, but I only see a friendship.

She won't outlive them all. Tesla is immortal. He will outlive her.


I assume Magnus and Watson would like to know the name of the man that died for them. Plus, pretty sure Griffin would mention him to the others. Tell them what happen.
This looks reasonable. Maybe that's why she saved Will in the past. She already knew him and she saw his potential. She knew he would turn up like his grandfather and be much of a help to her.

IMO, his Grandfather is a great man. I liked the character as soon as I saw him. So great that he made me forget my hatred for Robin Dunne. That is not right when it comes to Will. Will is a weak character with nothing special.

LadyGalaxyJ
May 25th, 2011, 10:28 AM
I think Magnus would be the type of person that would keep an eye on the family.
I think so too.
However, maybe she hasn't told Will yet. I can see her waiting for the occasion to be absolutely necessary. Revealing something like that to Will would have cause him to ask questions about The Five and her past. She doesn't like talking about it that much - look how she didn't tell him about Adam until it was vital.

EvenstarSRV
May 25th, 2011, 12:17 PM
Wow, so that's where all the budget since Pax Romana went. Being a WWII history geek, I've been excited about this episode since I first heard about it and it mostly lived up to my expectations. Though I needed a second viewing to actually understand the story since I spent the first mostly geeking out over the Thompsons, and Garands, the 506th, the tanks, etc. :D

Considering their budget, I thought the Sanctuary team did an impressive job production-wise. The village looked great, as did all the costumes, and those tanks were awesome. Love seeing the Five doing what they do best, and especially liked seeing so much of Griffin, since he's been relatively neglected compared to the other guys. Druitt the Nazi torturer was unexpected but quite chilling, and his scenes with Watson were fantastic. Tesla was also great as usual, didn't expect the reveal of his assistant as the traitor. While I normally don't care for it, I thought RD did a good job playing his grandfather, between the costume, accent, and acting I didn't see any of Will in his performance.

Helen was great as well, not as involved in the action as I would have liked, but it seems her strength is more getting people to risk their lives/die for her causes as opposed to always taking up arms herself. Still, the red hair and beret were cute, and I thought her scenes with the Nazi Colonel and Watson were good. I am a bit confused about the widespread assumption that Helen and James were a couple. She just called him 'darling', surely that's not unexpected for two people who've been close friends for over 50 years? :confused:

Overall I thought the storyline with the fire elemental and weather machine was pretty cool, though it seemed to drag a bit at times and required lots of exposition by the characters, though not enough to affect my enjoyment of the ep. And the dedication at the end was a very nice touch, esp only a week before Memorial Day here in the US.

Can't wait to see how Carentan in 2 weeks and how (I'm guessing) they'll tie what happened in this ep to the modern-day Sanctuary team.


So how is Griffin still young?

Yeah, that's a bit of a plot hole, since he probably should have been in his 80s. Unless maybe his long-life was due to Helen's blood like Druitt, then maybe after WWII he chose to live a normal life and die naturally.

LadyGalaxyJ
May 25th, 2011, 12:21 PM
Yeah, that's a bit of a plot hole, since he probably should have been in his 80s. Unless maybe his long-life was due to Helen's blood like Druitt, then maybe after WWII he chose to live a normal life and die naturally.
Yeah I could live with that explanation. Especially if Jeanette is indeed Clara's grandmother. He could have stopped using Helen's blood and chose to live a 'normal' life with her. Marry, have a child and grow old.

Morigane50
May 25th, 2011, 12:49 PM
I enjoyed to watch this episode ,to me it was done like an adventure movie with a Hollywood soundtrack which made me think of a mix between the Indiana Jones movies to the D-DAY movies . I liked it , as I liked how they mixed a sanctuary story dealing with abnormals with such a big historic event that was the landing in Normandy the 6th of June. That was very daring and the result is nice. I am french so maybe that's why I have been touched , and I appreciated that there were no cliché at all .

It is always a pleasure to see the five and the men's competition for Helen, it is funny to see that despite the fact that they are all in their 100 years of age and with all their powers , they act like child sometimes , specially when it is related to Helen and even in dramatic situation .
I liked when Helen spoke in french , she did it very well with only a slight accent which could be not detected by the german soldier who was flirting with her , the scene was funny and very plausible .
The french girl was nice too, and by seeing how she felt for Nigel , we suppose that she will become the furure Clara's grandmother .
To complete with all the characters , I really liked when they introduced the american soldiers and what we supposed to be Will's grandfather . I had the feeling that the actor changed his voice and didn't speak like as usual, I didn't recognized him first and he was very different of Will, just a family likeness which sometimes steps two generations.
Since the beginning I like the character of Will , he is totally different from the 150 years old other ones , he brings the normality and yet a kind of innocence and sentitivity . He cannot be at the level of the elder , just only because he cannot have the knowledge they all got since the 19th century, this makes him a little vulnerable when he faces Druitt or Tesla and of course Helen . His position is quite not easy , I always thought. So I found interesting to get a little more of his family history .
The end was moving whe we realise that their respective grandchildren will meet one day . I am wondering if Helen has been aware of this fact.

I'm looking forward to seeing the next episode as it is called Carentan . That's funny because I used to do some sailing with a friend and he used to let his boat in the little port of Carentan , so I know this place . It is a sign to the fact that it is not a coincidence that I became a sanctuary fan since only a few months when I discovered the TV show.
Thank you to the sanctuary cast and crew to do such a nice job for our own pleasure.

mjwalshe
May 25th, 2011, 01:02 PM
what??? :p
<img src="http://www.gotavapen.se/gota/artiklar/kpist/churchill.gif">

Stens are notorious for misfires was what i was getting at

Skydiver
May 25th, 2011, 01:50 PM
i love the band of brothers nod
easy company :)
that's who joined them at the end.

LadyGalaxyJ
May 25th, 2011, 01:53 PM
I liked when Helen spoke in french , she did it very well with only a slight accent which could be not detected by the german soldier who was flirting with her , the scene was funny and very plausible .
I'm glad someone else liked that scene! I thought her French was ... cute. For lack of a better word. :P I was talking about it with my friend yesterday and we agreed on that. ;P I was just really looking forward to that scene only to hear her speak French.


The end was moving whe we realise that their respective grandchildren will meet one day . I am wondering if Helen has been aware of this fact.
And in the future, Clara dies in another kind of war (Helen's "We are at war." makes me believe it can be called that way.) and this time Will finds her body. So it's the other around then what happened in 1994.
That's Sanctuary for you! :D

KayLyne
May 25th, 2011, 04:02 PM
I am a bit confused about the widespread assumption that Helen and James were a couple. She just called him 'darling', surely that's not unexpected for two people who've been close friends for over 50 years? :confused: It wasn't just the "darling" comment. The Helen/James relationship was also expressed a bit more during the James/John conversations throughout the episode as well as John's parting statement to James - "treat her well, James".

RealmOfX
May 25th, 2011, 04:10 PM
It wasn't just the "darling" comment. The Helen/James relationship was also expressed a bit more during the James/John conversations throughout the episode as well as John's parting statement to James - "treat her well, James".

None of the James/John conversations confirmed it though, it's still an assumption. It's obvious Druitt thought so but neither James nor Helen have indicated it's truth. Granted it's a definite possibility but it's also just as possible that they simply have a really close friendship and it's merely Druitt's jealousy showing through.

EvenstarSRV
May 25th, 2011, 05:31 PM
It wasn't just the "darling" comment. The Helen/James relationship was also expressed a bit more during the James/John conversations throughout the episode as well as John's parting statement to James - "treat her well, James".

Yeah, but it was coming from Druitt, an unstable guy at best and someone likely quite prone to jealously. Watson never actually confirmed Druitt's suspicions (accusations?). Sure it's a hint to a closer relationship, and I wouldn't be surprised if Helen and Watson did get together at some point esp after working closely together for years, but it's hardly canon IMHO.

EDIT: What Realm said. :)

majorsal
May 25th, 2011, 05:48 PM
this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLkABxWn8wU video makes me think of 'normandy' :p

KayLyne
May 25th, 2011, 05:51 PM
None of the James/John conversations confirmed it though, it's still an assumption. It's obvious Druitt thought so but neither James nor Helen have indicated it's truth. Granted it's a definite possibility but it's also just as possible that they simply have a really close friendship and it's merely Druitt's jealousy showing through.


Yeah, but it was coming from Druitt, an unstable guy at best and someone likely quite prone to jealously. Watson never actually confirmed Druitt's suspicions (accusations?). Sure it's a hint to a closer relationship, and I wouldn't be surprised if Helen and Watson did get together at some point esp after working closely together for years, but it's hardly canon IMHO.

EDIT: What Realm said. :)

I do agree. It's never been officially confirmed as canon (for which I'm thankful, because I still think of Helen/John as my OTP), but there have been a few hints/inferences about the closeness of Helen/James along the way in other episodes. I do find it confusing that some people (at various places, not just here) are labeling Helen as "doing the rounds with The Five" after seeing the hints of Helen/James that were inferred to in this episode.

One thing I noticed on the re-watch of this episode is how I loved the guest actors in this one - like the Nazi Colonel (I really liked him, even though he was the bad guy), the French Resistance lady (was her name Jeanette?), and even the Lieutenant with Tesla. Unfortunately, since this was set in 1944, I'm guessing it's unlikely we'd see these people back in recurring roles.

LadyGalaxyJ
May 25th, 2011, 06:31 PM
I do agree. It's never been officially confirmed as canon (for which I'm thankful, because I still think of Helen/John as my OTP), but there have been a few hints/inferences about the closeness of Helen/James along the way in other episodes. I do find it confusing that some people (at various places, not just here) are labeling Helen as "doing the rounds with The Five" after seeing the hints of Helen/James that were inferred to in this episode.
You know, it's kind of funny that we're at that point in the show.
Amanda said herself in an interview (when asked on the possibility of Helen/Nikola) that she didn't want the show to become "Helen beded every single member of The Five". But after Normandy, that possibility is more present. I don't know what she would have answered had the question concerned Watson. (Because no matter how much Helen/Nikola shippers there are, it's still an ambiguous ship, more than Helen/James at this point, IMHO. *ducks the rocks thrown by Teslenites* I mean that the nicest way possible. :))

So who knows? I mean, IMO, the episode made Helen/James canon. Then again, remember SG1. There are people who don't consider S/J to be canon. I do, a LOT of people do. But some don't. Everyone has a right to have his own opinion on the characters/relationships in a show.

llp
May 25th, 2011, 09:31 PM
I loved this episode. It was quite different from all the other episodes, but very well done. In fact, probably one of their best. I only wish they could get a larger audience who could appreciate just how awesome they really are and how great is their product.

I liked the different style they used in filming this episode making it look more like the 1940's style. I could tell they subdued the brightness of colors. And I liked Helen's red hair and the reason she wore that wig (in honor of her 'red haired' Grandmother.)

I also enjoyed the way Druitt popped up as a nazi.....nicely played.

As for the romance between her and James.....come on, why not? I meant the woman is about 160 years old. That means young men (and older ones) have caught her eye for about 145 years. Don't you think she would have had a few lovers in all that time. Druitt was a very very very long time before. What's a woman to do? :)

So my thanks to the Sanctuary cast and crew.....top notch job. Keep it up - but please, try and move back to Friday night if you can. Those other shows are successful because they are running in the summer. The really big competition is not in the summer, but between Sept and the beginning of June. So either move to the summer or please, try and return to Friday nights if you have any say in it.

meredithchandler73
May 25th, 2011, 09:56 PM
I am a bit confused about the widespread assumption that Helen and James were a couple. She just called him 'darling', surely that's not unexpected for two people who've been close friends for over 50 years? :confused:

Of course, everyone has their own opinion. Some people simply don't see Helen and James as a couple and the use of one term of endearment won't convince them that they are an item. But for me (and I'm sure I'm not alone in this) that was confirmation that Druitt's suspicion was correct - James and Helen were together. It's true that two people who have known each other for 50+ years might call one another darling and not be lovers, but I simply do NOT see Helen using that term of endearment for a male friend. Based on when she was raised and her personality - I just don't think she would call a male friend "darling" - especially in that context of being terrified for his well-being (after the Nazi messed with his anti-aging suit). Could you see her saying that to Nigel? Biggie? Declan? I couldn't. But it didn't seem completely out of place for Helen to use the term with James. It was a little jarring because there weren't any overt hints that they were a couple - just Druitt's perception. But it worked for me because I can understand how they might have turned to each other. I bought it when Helen used the term on James and I can totally see them becoming a couple - for some period of time.

Celandine
May 26th, 2011, 12:53 AM
Overall, I like the style and concept of this episode. Such a breath of fresh air after the last three failed ones. I love any sort of background history related to Helen and the Five and would gladly see more episodes exploring a bit of their past.

One thing that I didnt mind horribly, but did bother me a bit was the fact that Helen wore slacks in this episode. It was a period piece, 1940's to be exact. Women just didnt wear pants during this era. They would have drawn many stares I'd think and with Helen trying to be covert, drawing eyes to her attire wouldnt have been done. The other woman spy wore a dress I noticed and probably fit in quite nicely...

Loved the concept of an abnormal that might have changed the outcome of D-day and ultimately, the War. Very intriguing concept to explore and I wish we could see other incidents throughout history where they were secretly used..or at least attempted.

Helen's French, I've been told since I don't speak it myself, was very good. It's nice to see a different aspect of her character and I love being surprised like this.

Skydiver
May 26th, 2011, 06:33 AM
What i see?

we don't know how this is set in the general timespan of things. However Druitt had apparently already left her - Watson's comment about how much he hurt her.

while they may/ may not have been lovers, i think Watson was there to pick up the pieces after Druitt left Helen. and possibly may have been there when she made her pregnancy decision. Tesla, he's not her type. Not for anything beyond flirting. Nigel is just a good friend (and i think after this had someone of his own) Helen and watson were partners, and possibly were already working on the sanctuary network.

it's possible that she and watson were thinking of getting together (although i just can't wrap my head around them having intimacy when he is hooked to a maching 24/7) but then she realized that drutt would always haunt her and that she's never to have anyone

Skydiver
May 26th, 2011, 01:07 PM
A couple of folks offered to proofread the transcript for me, help with the German an French, if you still want to do it, PM me your e-mail and i'll send it to you.

MidwifeOnBoard
May 26th, 2011, 01:31 PM
My brief thoughts:

I really enjoyed this episode. I'll be very interested to see how it fits in to the grand scheme of the Sanctuary mythology as the season wraps up.

The shipper in me very much enjoyed the John/James and Helen/James moments. Re: Helen/James? At AT5 when someone asked AT whether Helen and Nikola ever got together, at first she said, 'no!' pretty quickly, but then backpedaled a bit and said that if it did happen, it would have been briefly after her relationship with Watson petered out after WW2. Between this and Normandy, it basically confirms Helen/James for me.

For the non-shippy stuff:

I thought this episode was beautifully crafted. Excellent script, the direction was beautiful and unintrusive, and the actors did a lovely job. It was wonderful to see the Five together (or mostly).

I was totally sucked into the story, and had a chuckle at the revisionist history. I thought they really played to the strengths of most of the characters so well. And I love nothing better than a good character piece. And if it's also a period piece? Be still my heart.

My quibbles were minor. AT's wig. *sigh* Has this woman ever worn a good wig on screen? Well, the ones in FKAC were quite nice. I guess they blew their wig budget on the prior episode? :lol: Using Robin as Will's grandfather was questionable at best IMO. It really broke through the 4th wall for me and bumped me right out of the story. And his accent kind of irked me. It was a weird combination of Brooklyn/Chicago/Gen Canadian, and made me feel 'oh here is an actor playing a part' rather than, as with the others, forgetting that they were actors playing a part.

Like I said, minor quibbles. Overall, I thought it was just beautifully done and am excited to see how the next episode makes it fit into the overall arc.

mjwalshe
May 26th, 2011, 02:06 PM
Overall, I like the style and concept of this episode. Such a breath of fresh air after the last three failed ones. I love any sort of background history related to Helen and the Five and would gladly see more episodes exploring a bit of their past.

One thing that I didnt mind horribly, but did bother me a bit was the fact that Helen wore slacks in this episode. It was a period piece, 1940's to be exact. Women just didnt wear pants during this era. They would have drawn many stares I'd think and with Helen trying to be covert, drawing eyes to her attire wouldnt have been done. The other woman spy wore a dress I noticed and probably fit in quite nicely...


Well women started wearing trousers much more in the war and given that Helen was in the first ever generation of women to become a Doctor / got to Oxford - I can see her trying new fashions early on (role on the swinging 60's episodes with miniskirts and kinky boots) - I did unfortunately get a bit of a Michelle of the resistance vibe and almost expected her to say ""Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once."

EvenstarSRV
May 26th, 2011, 02:09 PM
Of course, everyone has their own opinion. Some people simply don't see Helen and James as a couple and the use of one term of endearment won't convince them that they are an item. But for me (and I'm sure I'm not alone in this) that was confirmation that Druitt's suspicion was correct - James and Helen were together. It's true that two people who have known each other for 50+ years might call one another darling and not be lovers, but I simply do NOT see Helen using that term of endearment for a male friend. Based on when she was raised and her personality - I just don't think she would call a male friend "darling" - especially in that context of being terrified for his well-being (after the Nazi messed with his anti-aging suit). Could you see her saying that to Nigel? Biggie? Declan? I couldn't. But it didn't seem completely out of place for Helen to use the term with James. It was a little jarring because there weren't any overt hints that they were a couple - just Druitt's perception. But it worked for me because I can understand how they might have turned to each other. I bought it when Helen used the term on James and I can totally see them becoming a couple - for some period of time.

I can definitely see them becoming a couple, both rebounding from John's betrayal and working so closely together setting up the Sanctuary network, and it doesn't change my opinion of the ep, those scenes were fantastic. I just personally require more than 'darling' and the accusations of a jealous man for 'confirmation' of a relationship. It's the non-shipper in me. While it's undoubtedly a hint towards one, I need to see or hear something more explicit to consider it official canon.

Couple of fun things I noticed on rewatching, one of the Fox company guys was called Dunne, and it sounded like they used the Wilhelm scream when one of the Nazis was shot. Hee!

Whytewytch
May 26th, 2011, 05:12 PM
I've seen a number of people at various places ask that same question, and I have to wonder why. We've seen her express her love & affection around all of the members of The Five. But from what we've seen & heard, Helen didn't have a romantic relationship with Griffin, Tesla, or even Adam Worth. (She did, however, mention watching the sunrise with one of The Beatles!) Plus, considering that Helen's lived long enough for two lifetimes, I'd say she's earned the right to have at least two or more serious relationships. It's better than characters these days who have a "fling of the week".

As I see it, John & Helen have a true love that will always keep them connected, plus they will forever be connected through Ashley. However, with John's penchant for evil - and him being prone to disappearing for long periods of time - Helen turned to comfort & affection from a trusted friend who was always around, had similar interests, knew the history of Helen & John, as well as being a friend to both previously. Even in this day & age, we see that type of love occurring all the time.

LOL! Knew I was going to be the one to catch heck for this one. I know she's been around 150+ years, but her relationship(s) with the guys (yes, I know, not Griffin or Tesla or Worth, despite Tesla's feelings) reminds me of my teen-ager. There's a group of about 3 or 4 girls and 3 or 4 guys. All have dated each other at some point or other. It just makes me giggle, is all. I guess I just like the Helen/John dynamic so much that I hate to see her with another. Although she and Tesla make me smile when they're together. Maybe I just don't like her with Watson. ;) **ducks, prepares for catching more heck** lol

Cold Fuzz
May 26th, 2011, 08:19 PM
I don't watch Sanctuary regularly but I greatly enjoyed this episode. As a fan of Band of Brothers and The Pacific, the cinematography style in "Normandy" felt very... familiar. :D

Julian
May 27th, 2011, 02:27 AM
Helen's French, I've been told since I don't speak it myself, was very good. It's nice to see a different aspect of her character and I love being surprised like this.
I've noticed a few natives here say that, and I'm surprised really. I speak the language myself (but not as a native speaker, I am almost fluent) and I found her French to be clumsy and a bit off. I don't know whether it's just me being too harsh, or French people being too easy (whenever people speak to me they always think I'm so amazing and think it's so amazing anyone else can learn their language, lol).

That said, she did a LOT better than the Japanese in S02. That was so awful I couldn't even make heads or tails of it.

kes
May 27th, 2011, 03:20 AM
[...] - I did unfortunately get a bit of a Michelle of the resistance vibe and almost expected her to say ""Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once."

LOLOLOLOL

I totally got that too. And when Magnus tries to walk in to the café but its closed I was like "Oh no. René is closed."
I so wanted to hear Magnus say: " Good Mooning. "

Celandine
May 27th, 2011, 04:08 AM
Well women started wearing trousers much more in the war and given that Helen was in the first ever generation of women to become a Doctor / got to Oxford - I can see her trying new fashions early on (role on the swinging 60's episodes with miniskirts and kinky boots) - I did unfortunately get a bit of a Michelle of the resistance vibe and almost expected her to say ""Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once."

I'm still feel she stood out like a glaring bright light. She was trying to fit in with the locals and even tried a bit of French to play off that she lived there when questioned by the Nazi's by the little cafe. Europe in the 1940's was still very traditional in their manner of dress and any 'forward thinking' individuals would have drawn suspicion. That's all.


I've noticed a few natives here say that, and I'm surprised really. I speak the language myself (but not as a native speaker, I am almost fluent) and I found her French to be clumsy and a bit off. I don't know whether it's just me being too harsh, or French people being too easy (whenever people speak to me they always think I'm so amazing and think it's so amazing anyone else can learn their language, lol).

That said, she did a LOT better than the Japanese in S02. That was so awful I couldn't even make heads or tails of it.

Hmm, well maybe that were just fangurling AT and thought she could do no wrong. I think people need more perspective sometimes. ;)

Skydiver
May 27th, 2011, 05:55 AM
I don't Sanctuary regularly but I greatly enjoyed this episode. As a fan of Band of Brothers and The Pacific, the cinematography style in "Normandy" felt very... familiar. :D

lol

catch the Easy Company 'cameo'?

Morigane50
May 27th, 2011, 11:28 AM
I've noticed a few natives here say that, and I'm surprised really. I speak the language myself (but not as a native speaker, I am almost fluent) and I found her French to be clumsy and a bit off. I don't know whether it's just me being too harsh, or French people being too easy (whenever people speak to me they always think I'm so amazing and think it's so amazing anyone else can learn their language, lol).

That said, she did a LOT better than the Japanese in S02. That was so awful I couldn't even make heads or tails of it.

There is a lot of polemic about Helen speaking french , not sure it's so worth but let me give my opinion as a french native as you say . If she had spoken to a french traitor working for the german and SS , of course she would have been detected immediately , but in the story it is with a german soldier and it is plausible that he was not enough expert in french language to detect she was english ( ok I agree she was lucky). When she spoke, she articulated well each word and spoke a little slower than a french would have done and even have done a little fault but not really choquing. The german soldiers who were based in France didn't speak french in general .
I am curious of what you mean by french people are too easy and think it's amazing that foreign people can learn their language ,lol.

You know myself I have to speak english regularly for my job , but it is still difficult for me to identify if a person of english language is from England or USA or south Africa or Australia etc , except if the accent is too big to be mistaken .

MidwifeOnBoard
May 27th, 2011, 01:05 PM
it's possible that she and watson were thinking of getting together (although i just can't wrap my head around them having intimacy when he is hooked to a maching 24/7) but then she realized that drutt would always haunt her and that she's never to have anyone

Really? People connected to 'machines' are intimate every day. Why would James' be any different than someone who wears braces for mobility, or someone with a colostomy, or anything similar?

Skydiver
May 27th, 2011, 02:58 PM
No offense meant to anyone, but given that James couldn't even breathe without the machine well...there could be some very real physical issues related to him and traditional intimacy.

I dunno, I just don't see it. I just can't see Helen 'sleeping her way thorough the five'...or four as it is.

In my version of the world, they were working together, probably getting the sanctuary network off the ground, likely using London as a refuge for abnormals fleeing the war.

MidwifeOnBoard
May 27th, 2011, 06:24 PM
No offense meant to anyone, but given that James couldn't even breathe without the machine well...there could be some very real physical issues related to him and traditional intimacy.

I dunno, I just don't see it. I just can't see Helen 'sleeping her way thorough the five'...or four as it is.

In my version of the world, they were working together, probably getting the sanctuary network off the ground, likely using London as a refuge for abnormals fleeing the war.

I used to have a patient who was quite the party girl. Very 'active'. And she had severe spina bifida. Had been confined to a chair her entire life. You'd be surprised at how creative two interested parties can become to make things happen. ;)

Cold Fuzz
May 27th, 2011, 06:35 PM
lol

catch the Easy Company 'cameo'?

I was hoping that there would be an Easy Company "cameo." The moment I saw Capt. Zimmerman's Airborne uniform, I had a good feeling. When he mentioned Fox company with the 506th, I grinned from ear to ear because I knew Easy would somehow get mentioned. :D

Skydiver
May 27th, 2011, 07:20 PM
Thanks to Jakie and Alexandra the transcript is done

http://www.jackfic.net/emeraldcity/sanctuarytranscripts/normandy.htm

Professor_S
May 27th, 2011, 08:31 PM
This was a very good period piece! The style they used in filming was very good, and what can we say about Helen :D Well this time istead of a gun bum, it was a rifle bum :P I loved the iteractions between the 5, John and James was exceptional during the torture scene :eek:



did you notice that amanda had trouble getting her gun out of her purse? :p see what happens when you're used to gunbumming it!? :p

ROFL! I laughed so loud when, after struggling to extract a teeny-tiny pistol from her purse, Helen effortlessly whips a rifle out from behind her. :lol:

And yes, the torture scene was phenomenal. It was so well played on both parts.



To a person that’s not a big fan of Helen & the rest of The Five, I can understand how this episode might be considered a bit “slow”. However, as a viewer who absolutely adores The Fab Five – this episode was absolutely awesome. I even thought about this being similar to episodes of the old classic tv show, “Combat”, which I loved back in the day. (is that showing my age?!)

Heaven forbid the day that Sanctuary actually ends, but I dare say MAD could be successful in making full-length movies of just exploits of The Five.


Ahaha!! YES! I used to love watching this show - they used to run reruns on the History Channel. My brother and I would watch it right after "12 O'Clock High". :D

Mhmm, I love, love, love the Five-centric episodes. And this really was cinematic in scale, wasn't it? Every time I watch Five-eps (like FKaC as well) I such a strong League of Extraordinary Gentlemen vibe - it's BRILLIANT! :D To be honest, I sometimes find myself wishing the show focused on The Five, rather than the current team... :o



I loved the music when Helen was talking to that solider outside the hideout. So romantic, and it was so cool hearing her speak French. :) The scene with her, Watson, John and the Nazi dude was short, but well done. I look at Helen, John and Watson as kind of a love triangle, there's John, the man who broke her heart, and Watson, the man who put her heart back together. :) I loved Helen giving the Nazi dude attitude when he asked if he could call her Helen. ;) I really wasn't expecting the guy Tesla was with to be bad, but, hey, it was still cool to see Tesla as a vamp. :p


The music this episode was absolutely fantastic! In that particular scene, you could really hear the Samuel Barber coming through. Lockington seemed to have been inspired by Michael Kamen's Band of Brothers soundtrack too. I am simply dying for a Lockington soundtrack!!!


OK, fangirl crush time.

This is the Sanctuary I love, and the memory of One Night and Wingman is like a bad dream after the last two weeks.




Wow, so that's where all the budget since Pax Romana went. Being a WWII history geek, I've been excited about this episode since I first heard about it and it mostly lived up to my expectations. Though I needed a second viewing to actually understand the story since I spent the first mostly geeking out over the Thompsons, and Garands, the 506th, the tanks, etc. :D



Touché.

.
.
.
.

I have so many more thoughts to share, but most of it has been said already. I absolutely adored this episode; it is, without a doubt, among my all-time favourite Sanctuary eps (the likes of which include FKaC, Requiem, and Pavor). Simply marvelous.

Professor_S
May 27th, 2011, 08:37 PM
(First, sorry for the double-post. :o

Just an FYI for all the Canadian fans out there who have wait 'till Friday to see the most recent ep:

Live-Discussion for Canucks (http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/81527-Thread-Suggestion-Live-Discussion-for-Canucks?p=12654301&viewfull=1#post12654301))

kes
May 28th, 2011, 04:56 AM
I am curious of what you mean by french people are too easy and think it's amazing that foreign people can learn their language ,lol.

You know myself I have to speak english regularly for my job , but it is still difficult for me to identify if a person of english language is from England or USA or south Africa or Australia etc , except if the accent is too big to be mistaken .

Everything is dubbed! That's why lol

EH-T
May 28th, 2011, 01:33 PM
Have to say that I loved this episode. Kudos to all of the Sanctuary team for a brilliant effort.

-loved the music in this episode more than any other. Having a symphony play the score was worth whatever it cost them.
-such a cinematic feel to the episode as others have said, partly due to the score, partly due to the way it was filmed and the colour correction
-love it when then go back into history and explore the five so this scores big on both counts
-although some have taken small issue with accents/foreign languages, for me (English as a first language, passable French and a bit of German) it all sounded good (except for the comment below under nitpicks)
-happy that they included Tesla even if he wasn't on the ground in France
-really enjoyed getting to see more (no pun intended ;)) of Nigel, I like the character and hope we get more in season 4
-as much as I enjoy CH as Bigfoot, it is great to see him as John again.
-I have no issue with a relationship between Watson and Helen. I, as many others, can see them turning to each other at some point. They are intellectual equals, who else really knows what it is like for them, to live so long and see so many they love die? I do interpret the "darling" as indicating they were involved. Not happy about the suggestions that Helen was sleeping her way through the five. First, it is only 2 guys at most and she has been alive for 160 years FCOL, surely she is going to have more than one relationship. Reminds me of the nonsense about Sam's relationships in SG1. :rolleyes:
-I have no problem with working RD into the show as his grandfather but I'm glad they didn't work the others in as well-that would have taken me out of the story
-brilliant idea so kudos for Damian for a great idea and a great script
-I thought the supporting cast were wonderful (wasn't the traitor Cassandra's boyfriend in Stargate?)
-great job by PW and CH in the torture scenes
-great look for the show, kudos to the costume department
-love AT's tribute to her grandmother, lovely touch
-the dedication at the end was beautiful

I could go on and on but just another absolutely brilliant episode. I almost hate to do it but I do have a couple of nitpicks

-the accent of the nazi Col. was not that great, although I thought that other than that it was very well played by the guest actor
-I was surprised by how much we saw of Will's grandfather, I expected less of that and more of the five. I also wish we could have seen a bit more interaction between Helen and the five.
-my main nitpick, however, was what I perceive as a lost opportunity on behalf of this proudly Canadian show. I mean no offense to anyone so please do not take my comments as being against the Americans or British. As a Canadian who lost 3 uncles in WWII it is sometimes difficult to take that the Canadian contribution to the war effort is often overlooked. Canada had the world's 3rd largest navy in WWII and were involved in the war effort from the beginning in 1939. Canadians played a major role in the D-Day invasion and had suffered great casualties in what became a rehersal for D-Day, the battle of Dieppe. I think it would have been a nice gesture on behalf of this Canadian production to highlight our country's role by making Zimmerman and his soldiers Canadian. The Americans were mentioned in the mention of Eisenhower, there was mention of Churchill and the headquarters were in Britian so that would have been a way to include all the players IMO.

Professor_S
May 28th, 2011, 03:36 PM
<snip>
-my main nitpick, however, was what I perceive as a lost opportunity on behalf of this proudly Canadian show. I mean no offense to anyone so please do not take my comments as being against the Americans or British. As a Canadian who lost 3 uncles in WWII it is sometimes difficult to take that the Canadian contribution to the war effort is often overlooked. Canada had the world's 3rd largest navy in WWII and were involved in the war effort from the beginning in 1939. Canadians played a major role in the D-Day invasion and had suffered great casualties in what became a rehersal for D-Day, the battle of Dieppe. I think it would have been a nice gesture on behalf of this Canadian production to highlight our country's role by making Zimmerman and his soldiers Canadian. The Americans were mentioned in the mention of Eisenhower, there was mention of Churchill and the headquarters were in Britian so that would have been a way to include all the players IMO.

EH-T, this is such a good point. I too was surprised that they didn't even mention Juno Beach!! After all, the Canadians pushed further inland than any other force on D-Day. I think you are quite right to call this an opportunity lost.

This actually brings me something I've been pondering a fair bit lately (I was considering asking someone to ask this on the next Tapping Tuesday) - namely, the conspicuous absence of Canada (or any mention thereof) in the show. TPTB have been so careful not to explicitly say (in canon, at least) that Helen's sanctuary is in BC. We had a zoom-in into a map somewhere in S1, if I'm not mistaken; and they set Ashely's break-in in Montreal in S1 as well. But other than that, it really feels like they're tip-toeing around explicit reference to Canada in the show. Is the fear (network-driven or otherwise) that American audiences will somehow not connect with the show as much with such references? Why not say that Sanctuary HQ (i.e. Helen's Sanctuary) is based in BC? I dunno... it just bugs me a bit.... thoughts, anyone?

**(EDIT: I should qualify this is not in any way intended as a slight against American audience members!! I mean only to ponder the possible motivations the decision-makers believe themselves to be operating on.)

EvenstarSRV
May 28th, 2011, 04:15 PM
-my main nitpick, however, was what I perceive as a lost opportunity on behalf of this proudly Canadian show. I mean no offense to anyone so please do not take my comments as being against the Americans or British. As a Canadian who lost 3 uncles in WWII it is sometimes difficult to take that the Canadian contribution to the war effort is often overlooked. Canada had the world's 3rd largest navy in WWII and were involved in the war effort from the beginning in 1939. Canadians played a major role in the D-Day invasion and had suffered great casualties in what became a rehersal for D-Day, the battle of Dieppe. I think it would have been a nice gesture on behalf of this Canadian production to highlight our country's role by making Zimmerman and his soldiers Canadian. The Americans were mentioned in the mention of Eisenhower, there was mention of Churchill and the headquarters were in Britian so that would have been a way to include all the players IMO.

The only problem I see with that is that none of the paratroopers that landed that night were Canadian IIRC, it was only the US 82nd and 101st Airborne (which landed near Carentan) and I believe two British divisions. The Canadians landed on Juno beach on D-Day but they were quite a few miles away from Carentan and the episode ended on the morning of D-Day, before any of the landings took place.

I think maybe having Tesla or Helen say, 'we can't let this become a rout like Dieppe' or something like that could have been a nice nod to the Canadian efforts in WWII, while still staying relatively historically accurate.

Skydiver
May 28th, 2011, 06:12 PM
for all we know, Jack Zimmeman was born in america, grew up in canada,and, in response to Pearl Harbor, went to the US to enlist

MidwifeOnBoard
May 28th, 2011, 06:37 PM
There's definitely been confusion regarding where the Sanctuary is located. Generally, they talk about things that make it seem like it's in the US-- the FBI, CIA, Homeland Security. But a least once, that I can think of, they've used Canadian currency, though other times, it's been fakey-fake American currency. So... *shrug* Must be right on the border. ;)

Mandysg1
May 28th, 2011, 06:45 PM
There's definitely been confusion regarding where the Sanctuary is located. Generally, they talk about things that make it seem like it's in the US-- the FBI, CIA, Homeland Security. But a least once, that I can think of, they've used Canadian currency, though other times, it's been fakey-fake American currency. So... *shrug* Must be right on the border. ;)

LOL, yep there are towns where the border runs right through them :P

SG1SGAp90
May 28th, 2011, 07:58 PM
That was a great episode, kind of leads me to believe that is the reason Helen was there when Will was a kid instead of just looking for that creature beacause of his grandfathers bravery she decided to keep anyone in his family safe from harm for as long as she lives but it maybe just a great big cosmic coincidence.

atlantis_babe34
May 28th, 2011, 10:18 PM
<Snip>

my main nitpick, however, was what I perceive as a lost opportunity on behalf of this proudly Canadian show. I mean no offense to anyone so please do not take my comments as being against the Americans or British. As a Canadian who lost 3 uncles in WWII it is sometimes difficult to take that the Canadian contribution to the war effort is often overlooked. Canada had the world's 3rd largest navy in WWII and were involved in the war effort from the beginning in 1939. Canadians played a major role in the D-Day invasion and had suffered great casualties in what became a rehersal for D-Day, the battle of Dieppe. I think it would have been a nice gesture on behalf of this Canadian production to highlight our country's role by making Zimmerman and his soldiers Canadian. The Americans were mentioned in the mention of Eisenhower, there was mention of Churchill and the headquarters were in Britian so that would have been a way to include all the players IMO.

ita.. there were alot of countries involved in D-Day.. i know Australia had the biggest role in airsupport for the landings and what not.. i have a few great great uncle buried somewhere over in Normanday... would have been nice to inlcude all the allies.

Edit: i did see the Easy cameo as well XD

EDIT: ditto with everyone else no the meaning no offence :)




That was a great episode, kind of leads me to believe that is the reason Helen was there when Will was a kid instead of just looking for that creature beacause of his grandfathers bravery she decided to keep anyone in his family safe from harm for as long as she lives but it maybe just a great big cosmic coincidence.

i think she's been keeping an eye on the whole family since then

Skydiver
May 29th, 2011, 06:56 AM
i can see...after this mission she went to visit the widow. 'if you ever need anything......' and then dropped in now and then. quite possibly arranged for Jack's child(ren) to have scholarships to school.

I can see her coming across the monster as a response to a frantic cry for help.

I don't see her closely involved, but casually keeping tabs and helping where she can/could

EH-T
May 29th, 2011, 07:52 AM
The only problem I see with that is that none of the paratroopers that landed that night were Canadian IIRC, it was only the US 82nd and 101st Airborne (which landed near Carentan) and I believe two British divisions. The Canadians landed on Juno beach on D-Day but they were quite a few miles away from Carentan and the episode ended on the morning of D-Day, before any of the landings took place.

I think maybe having Tesla or Helen say, 'we can't let this become a rout like Dieppe' or something like that could have been a nice nod to the Canadian efforts in WWII, while still staying relatively historically accurate.

Actually, there were. This is from a CBC news story on D-Day:

For Canada, 14,000 soldiers were to land on the beaches; another 450 were to drop behind enemy lines by parachute or glider. The Royal Canadian Navy supplied ships and about 10,000 sailors. Lancaster bombers and Spitfire fighters from the Royal Canadian Air Force supported the invasion.




EH-T, this is such a good point. I too was surprised that they didn't even mention Juno Beach!! After all, the Canadians pushed further inland than any other force on D-Day. I think you are quite right to call this an opportunity lost.

This actually brings me something I've been pondering a fair bit lately (I was considering asking someone to ask this on the next Tapping Tuesday) - namely, the conspicuous absence of Canada (or any mention thereof) in the show. TPTB have been so careful not to explicitly say (in canon, at least) that Helen's sanctuary is in BC. We had a zoom-in into a map somewhere in S1, if I'm not mistaken; and they set Ashely's break-in in Montreal in S1 as well. But other than that, it really feels like they're tip-toeing around explicit reference to Canada in the show. Is the fear (network-driven or otherwise) that American audiences will somehow not connect with the show as much with such references? Why not say that Sanctuary HQ (i.e. Helen's Sanctuary) is based in BC? I dunno... it just bugs me a bit.... thoughts, anyone?

**(EDIT: I should qualify this is not in any way intended as a slight against American audience members!! I mean only to ponder the possible motivations the decision-makers believe themselves to be operating on.)

Early on it was my understanding that they tried to make things sort of neutral and have made efforts to include reference to many countries. IIRC, Will worked for "the Agency" instead of specifying what agency. There was the zoom in that indicted the PNW but again, did not specify an exact location. We have had mention of Vancouver and Montreal as well as Sanctuaries in London, Tokyo, etc and the team has certainly travelled around the world. There has also been reference to the US. I'm not sure if there has been any change in policy but I don't recall any recent Candian references and it is certainly clear that Abby works for the FBI. Since the FBI would only have jurisdiction in the US, that does suggest the main Sanctuary is there. Wonder if that is a Syfy request?

shining light
May 29th, 2011, 01:56 PM
[QUOTE=EH-T;12656106
-I thought the supporting cast were wonderful (wasn't the traitor Cassandra's boyfriend in Stargate?)
[/QUOTE]

Nope, he was the guy who had a crush on Sam. Graham Simmons I think was the character name!

EH-T
May 30th, 2011, 10:05 AM
Nope, he was the guy who had a crush on Sam. Graham Simmons I think was the character name!

No, it wasn't the guy who had the crush on Sam (Simmons), I'm sure of that. He was quite a bit younger then, of course, but I thought I recognised the actor's name. I'll have to check.

Morigane50
May 30th, 2011, 12:23 PM
Actually, there were. This is from a CBC news story on D-Day:

For Canada, 14,000 soldiers were to land on the beaches; another 450 were to drop behind enemy lines by parachute or glider. The Royal Canadian Navy supplied ships and about 10,000 sailors. Lancaster bombers and Spitfire fighters from the Royal Canadian Air Force supported the invasion.





Early on it was my understanding that they tried to make things sort of neutral and have made efforts to include reference to many countries. IIRC, Will worked for "the Agency" instead of specifying what agency. There was the zoom in that indicted the PNW but again, did not specify an exact location. We have had mention of Vancouver and Montreal as well as Sanctuaries in London, Tokyo, etc and the team has certainly travelled around the world. There has also been reference to the US. I'm not sure if there has been any change in policy but I don't recall any recent Candian references and it is certainly clear that Abby works for the FBI. Since the FBI would only have jurisdiction in the US, that does suggest the main Sanctuary is there. Wonder if that is a Syfy request?


the episode takes place during the night between the 5 and 6 of June and finishes at dawn , and so in the chronology of events that was first the 101st and 82nd airborne who were dropped in the area of Ste Mère Eglise very close to Carentan and the objective as the soldier says in the episode was to rally the troops who were going to land on Utah beach, not far , at about 6h30 in the morning . I am quite sure that the writers didn't forget to talk about the Canadian divisions intentionally , it is just because the landing on Juno beach took place later at 7h30 , so that was not the point anymore in the episode .If they had had to mention other paratroopers who were dropped at the same moment than the 101 , that would be the english division who had to take the famous Pegasus Bridge near Caen , as it was strategic to cut the way to the Nazi.
I understand your remark about Canadian , and for me it is because the episode was so intense , that it is true we wanted to see all History of the D-DAY in Normandy just in 43 min .
Like Helen who says at the end , he won't be forgotten , none of all the soldiers from all the allied forces have been forgotten . during that day thousands of soldiers gave their life , but I would like to mention that the civilian populations living in Normandy have suffered a lot and families died by thousands too during the next days , entire villages destroyed under the bombs and the pretty city of Caen almost totally destroyed , and which was liberated BTW by the Canadian . Nowadays, there are plenty of museum in Normandy to remember these terrible days , and each of them are all different and very moving because it is about human histories not only with a big H but also with small h.

EH-T
May 30th, 2011, 12:53 PM
the episode takes place during the night between the 5 and 6 of June and finishes at dawn , and so in the chronology of events that was first the 101st and 82nd airborne who were dropped in the area of Ste Mère Eglise very close to Carentan and the objective as the soldier says in the episode was to rally the troops who were going to land on Utah beach, not far , at about 6h30 in the morning . I am quite sure that the writers didn't forget to talk about the Canadian divisions intentionally , it is just because the landing on Juno beach took place later at 7h30 , so that was not the point anymore in the episode .If they had had to mention other paratroopers who were dropped at the same moment than the 101 , that would be the english division who had to take the famous Pegasus Bridge near Caen , as it was strategic to cut the way to the Nazi.
I understand your remark about Canadian , and for me it is because the episode was so intense , that it is true we wanted to see all History of the D-DAY in Normandy just in 43 min .
Like Helen who says at the end , he won't be forgotten , none of all the soldiers from all the allied forces have been forgotten . during that day thousands of soldiers gave their life , but I would like to mention that the civilian populations living in Normandy have suffered a lot and families died by thousands too during the next days , entire villages destroyed under the bombs and the pretty city of Caen almost totally destroyed , and which was liberated BTW by the Canadian . Nowadays, there are plenty of museum in Normandy to remember these terrible days , and each of them are all different and very moving because it is about human histories not only with a big H but also with small h.


You are obviously very knowledgeable about the invasion. Are you French?

I don't want to get into a detailed discussion but if the Canadian troops were landing on Juno Beach at 7:30 then those dropping behind the lines would have dropped during the night before. In any event, the episode could have easily been written to take place in a different town that was closer to Juno. Alternatively, the characters could have referred to the other allied troops. There are lots of ways that other participants could have been mentioned.

There have been lots of movies and TV shows regarding the war. How many ever mention Canadians? The main point I am trying to make is that if we Candians do not educate others (or the next generation of Canadians for that matter) then who will? That's why, to me, it was a lost opportunity.

shining light
May 30th, 2011, 02:20 PM
No, it wasn't the guy who had the crush on Sam (Simmons), I'm sure of that. He was quite a bit younger then, of course, but I thought I recognised the actor's name. I'll have to check.

Doubted myself after writing this, so forced myself to watch the SG1 eps, Message in a Bottle and Rite of Passage and then Sanctuary (Normandy). EH-T - You are right, he was cassies boyfriend and not the guy who had a crush on Sam.

Galileo_Galilee
May 30th, 2011, 08:15 PM
I missed the first five minutes of the episode. Somehow I get the image of Will with his father visiting his grandfather's grave. Then he sees Helen honoring his grandfather's grave in Arlington. She ducks out before his father sees her so they don't have to explain anything. Later, Helen starts telling Will this story of how she met his grandfather in WW II. Which would explain her interest in Will.

Steff
May 31st, 2011, 01:39 AM
My tribute to Normandy.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS-YgnNVQP8

mjwalshe
May 31st, 2011, 01:10 PM
I missed the first five minutes of the episode. Somehow I get the image of Will with his father visiting his grandfather's grave. Then he sees Helen honoring his grandfather's grave in Arlington. She ducks out before his father sees her so they don't have to explain anything. Later, Helen starts telling Will this story of how she met his grandfather in WW II. Which would explain her interest in Will.

yep form the trailer it looks like the team are in present day carentan - which i suspect how they will link the two episodes

Morigane50
May 31st, 2011, 03:07 PM
You are obviously very knowledgeable about the invasion. Are you French?

I don't want to get into a detailed discussion but if the Canadian troops were landing on Juno Beach at 7:30 then those dropping behind the lines would have dropped during the night before. In any event, the episode could have easily been written to take place in a different town that was closer to Juno. Alternatively, the characters could have referred to the other allied troops. There are lots of ways that other participants could have been mentioned.

There have been lots of movies and TV shows regarding the war. How many ever mention Canadians? The main point I am trying to make is that if we Candians do not educate others (or the next generation of Canadians for that matter) then who will? That's why, to me, it was a lost opportunity.


Yes I am french and I live not far from Normandy and could often visit the beaches of the landing and the various crucial places of the battle of Normandy.
I do not pretend to be an expert , but a few years ago I visited the "Memorial of Caen" which is a wonderful museum for Peace , made in the aim of never forgetting . Me who didn't care at all for WWII , became very passionated by this period and specially for the organisation and intelligence deployed by all the allied forces to success the landing (that was not obvious to win) and erase the hideous ideology of the nazi .
I totally understand your frustration about having the feeling that the canadians are not mentioned in movies or TV shows but it doesn't mean there were not there .

If you can , one day come in Normandy and you will see that the canadians are not forgotten .

rendez-vous in Carentan ?

gotthammer
May 31st, 2011, 07:52 PM
2. What does a T-55 tank do in Normandy and how come the German officer doesn't recognize it?


Hehehe. Yeah. I found that funny, too. Still, it is kinda HARD to find a running Panther (that or the King Tiger were the only German tanks in 'mass production' w/ sloped armour). Since they film in Canada, the closest one I think is in California (the Littlefield collection)
:D

RealmOfX
May 31st, 2011, 08:09 PM
From today's #TappingTuesday on Twitter -

Q3 - Elise Carroll - Hi Amanda!! Normandy was amazing! Will WILL every know what his grandfather did for Helen and the team? Xo
A3 - Probably not. Magnus never met him or realized who he was. Sad really.

EvenstarSRV
May 31st, 2011, 09:34 PM
Actually, there were. This is from a CBC news story on D-Day:

For Canada, 14,000 soldiers were to land on the beaches; another 450 were to drop behind enemy lines by parachute or glider. The Royal Canadian Navy supplied ships and about 10,000 sailors. Lancaster bombers and Spitfire fighters from the Royal Canadian Air Force supported the invasion.

Oh neat. *goes off to read*

Ah, the 1st Canadian Parachute battalion landed in advance of the June and Sword beach landings and blew bridges and secured the eastern flank of the entire invasion. Though this was east of Caen, which is a good 15-20 miles from Utah Beach and Carentan.

I think using Carentan and the 101st Airborne in this episode is rather like Helen name dropping Molly Brown in Next Tuesday. It's a person that's often referenced in relation to the Titanic, rather like the 101st Airborne/Easy company is commonly referenced in relation to D-Day thanks to series like Band of Brothers, and so perhaps more recognizable to the audience. Sadly it's pretty impossible to do justice to everyone involved in something as massive as Overload in just 43 minutes.



Early on it was my understanding that they tried to make things sort of neutral and have made efforts to include reference to many countries. IIRC, Will worked for "the Agency" instead of specifying what agency. There was the zoom in that indicted the PNW but again, did not specify an exact location. We have had mention of Vancouver and Montreal as well as Sanctuaries in London, Tokyo, etc and the team has certainly travelled around the world. There has also been reference to the US. I'm not sure if there has been any change in policy but I don't recall any recent Candian references and it is certainly clear that Abby works for the FBI. Since the FBI would only have jurisdiction in the US, that does suggest the main Sanctuary is there. Wonder if that is a Syfy request?

The most recent Canadian reference I remember is Henry's 'what in the sweet Sidney Crosby' from Firewall.

As to the Sanctuary's location, according to End of Nights it's within driving distance of Vancouver since that's where the house was where Helen and Will met Kate. Of course it could be Vancouver, WA and not BC, but either way it's probably less than an hour from the border and likely on the US side because of the FBI's involvement.


Yes I am french and I live not far from Normandy and could often visit the beaches of the landing and the various crucial places of the battle of Normandy.
I do not pretend to be an expert , but a few years ago I visited the "Memorial of Caen" which is a wonderful museum for Peace , made in the aim of never forgetting . Me who didn't care at all for WWII , became very passionated by this period and specially for the organisation and intelligence deployed by all the allied forces to success the landing (that was not obvious to win) and erase the hideous ideology of the nazi .
I totally understand your frustration about having the feeling that the canadians are not mentioned in movies or TV shows but it doesn't mean there were not there .

If you can , one day come in Normandy and you will see that the canadians are not forgotten .

rendez-vous in Carentan ?

I got to visit Normandy with my family a few years ago, we drove from Bayeux to St. Mere Eglise and visited Carentan, Colleville, Omaha beach, and Pont due Hoc along the way. What especially touched me was that in pretty much every village or town we stopped in there were memorials to the soldiers who fought for their liberation all those years ago. It was a very poignant experience.

kes
June 1st, 2011, 02:35 AM
From today's #TappingTuesday on Twitter -

Q3 - Elise Carroll - Hi Amanda!! Normandy was amazing! Will WILL every know what his grandfather did for Helen and the team? Xo
A3 - Probably not. Magnus never met him or realized who he was. Sad really.

I dont like that. Magnus doesnt seem like the type of person who wouldnt even ask the guys name.

Skydiver
June 1st, 2011, 04:36 AM
I'm not fussed by it personally. A whole squad was there, and it was Nigel who interacted with him, not Magnus.

kes
June 1st, 2011, 06:34 AM
I'm not fussed by it personally. A whole squad was there, and it was Nigel who interacted with him, not Magnus.

Makes it even more pointless having RD playing the character.

mjwalshe
June 1st, 2011, 02:13 PM
Hehehe. Yeah. I found that funny, too. Still, it is kinda HARD to find a running Panther (that or the King Tiger were the only German tanks in 'mass production' w/ sloped armour). Since they film in Canada, the closest one I think is in California (the Littlefield collection)
:D

I noticed they only shot it mostly from the front to stop the side view giving it away.

Skydiver
June 1st, 2011, 08:29 PM
I personally didn't see it as pointless but different strokes for different folks.

One thing to consider, actors often have a 'must appear in X number of episodes' in their contracts. For all we know, Robin was contractually obligated to be in the episode so they fit him in 'naturally' rather than some flashback/forward at the beginning/end.

majorsal
June 1st, 2011, 08:42 PM
I personally didn't see it as pointless but different strokes for different folks.

One thing to consider, actors often have a 'must appear in X number of episodes' in their contracts. For all we know, Robin was contractually obligated to be in the episode so they fit him in 'naturally' rather than some flashback/forward at the beginning/end.

i look at it as he's the lead actor, so they found a place for him.

but i didn't find that place to hurt the ep at all, and added some heartfelt moments, especially with him dying at the end, and helen never being able to know the deeper importance of this man in her life and future.

Skydiver
June 1st, 2011, 08:45 PM
or, for as long as she's lived, there's still that 'six degrees of separation' thing going on....cycles of people and families that have gone in and out of her life, some that she's aware of, and some that she's not

kes
June 2nd, 2011, 03:00 AM
I personally didn't see it as pointless but different strokes for different folks.

One thing to consider, actors often have a 'must appear in X number of episodes' in their contracts. For all we know, Robin was contractually obligated to be in the episode so they fit him in 'naturally' rather than some flashback/forward at the beginning/end.

Yeh, I know.

EH-T
June 2nd, 2011, 08:57 AM
Yes I am french and I live not far from Normandy and could often visit the beaches of the landing and the various crucial places of the battle of Normandy.
I do not pretend to be an expert , but a few years ago I visited the "Memorial of Caen" which is a wonderful museum for Peace , made in the aim of never forgetting . Me who didn't care at all for WWII , became very passionated by this period and specially for the organisation and intelligence deployed by all the allied forces to success the landing (that was not obvious to win) and erase the hideous ideology of the nazi .
I totally understand your frustration about having the feeling that the canadians are not mentioned in movies or TV shows but it doesn't mean there were not there .

If you can , one day come in Normandy and you will see that the canadians are not forgotten .

rendez-vous in Carentan ?

I hope to do so one day. I would also like to visit Vimy Ridge and the place in The netherlands where two of my uncles are buried. I have visited the grave of one uncle in a Commonwealth cemetery. One of the most emotional experiences of my life.

meredithchandler73
June 2nd, 2011, 05:39 PM
or, for as long as she's lived, there's still that 'six degrees of separation' thing going on....cycles of people and families that have gone in and out of her life, some that she's aware of, and some that she's not

That is a TERRIFIC way to look at it! And simply makes sense with how long-lived Helen is.

I thought Robin Dunne did a nice job in his role - no trace of Will Zimmerman. (And based on Will's behavior in some of the recent episodes, that is a *welcome* thing.) I seem to be in the minority, but I just wasn't a fan of the idea that Helen might have been following Jack Zimmerman's family ever since Normandy. Based on Amanda's answer on Facebook, it sounds like Helen wasn't.

RealmOfX
June 2nd, 2011, 06:33 PM
That is a TERRIFIC way to look at it! And simply makes sense with how long-lived Helen is.

I thought Robin Dunne did a nice job in his role - no trace of Will Zimmerman. (And based on Will's behavior in some of the recent episodes, that is a *welcome* thing.) I seem to be in the minority, but I just wasn't a fan of the idea that Helen might have been following Jack Zimmerman's family ever since Normandy. Based on Amanda's answer on Facebook, it sounds like Helen wasn't.

Nope, you're not in the minority :D

Morigane50
June 3rd, 2011, 07:35 AM
Makes it even more pointless having RD playing the character.

I know that we all have our opinions about the characters and actors , which is what makes the interest of this forum , so let me tell that personally I feel the contrary , I think it was a really good idea and even indispensable to have Robin Dunne playing Will's grandfather . Regarding or not that the actor had contractually the obligation to be in the episode (it's not really our business) , I think that he deserved to be in this episode where all the "sanctuary family" was there ( except henry and Kate unfortunately) . The irony is that if Jack Zimmerman had been played by another actor, first , everyone would have asked if he was related to Will , Zimmerman is a name widespread so that would not have been obvious immediately of who he was , and secondly everyone would have asked why they do not have RD to play the role.
I liked a lot how Robin Dunne played this character , his face with a lot of gravity , the soldier at war who had seen enough dead to not smiling anymore and I liked his scenes with Nigel , particularly when Nigel shows he is invisible , and how he looks at him ,like thinking , okay I'm involved in the biggest military operation ever seen and I am looking right now at an invisible man , nothing can surprises me anymore.
The end was sad to me , because it symbolized all the young soldiers who died this day and secondly it was a touching moment about crossed destinies between the characters of the show. So now , the big question is to really know if Helen has ever been aware of who he was and if the fact that she saved Will when he was a child was a coincidence or not .Personnally I do not believe in coincidences. Hope the next episodes will bring answers .

kes
June 3rd, 2011, 10:24 AM
I know that we all have our opinions about the characters and actors , which is what makes the interest of this forum , so let me tell that personally I feel the contrary , I think it was a really good idea and even indispensable to have Robin Dunne playing Will's grandfather . Regarding or not that the actor had contractually the obligation to be in the episode (it's not really our business) , I think that he deserved to be in this episode where all the "sanctuary family" was there ( except henry and Kate unfortunately) . The irony is that if Jack Zimmerman had been played by another actor, first , everyone would have asked if he was related to Will , Zimmerman is a name widespread so that would not have been obvious immediately of who he was , and secondly everyone would have asked why they do not have RD to play the role.
I liked a lot how Robin Dunne played this character , his face with a lot of gravity , the soldier at war who had seen enough dead to not smiling anymore and I liked his scenes with Nigel , particularly when Nigel shows he is invisible , and how he looks at him ,like thinking , okay I'm involved in the biggest military operation ever seen and I am looking right now at an invisible man , nothing can surprises me anymore.
The end was sad to me , because it symbolized all the young soldiers who died this day and secondly it was a touching moment about crossed destinies between the characters of the show. So now , the big question is to really know if Helen has ever been aware of who he was and if the fact that she saved Will when he was a child was a coincidence or not .Personnally I do not believe in coincidences. Hope the next episodes will bring answers .

Yes, if the next ep brings it up I like it. But acording to AT's answer it doesnt. That's what bugs me.
He was their commanding officer and he wanst suppose to be there. Although after Tesla finds out Ike wasnt getting his masseges he could have recieve orders to help.
I didnt mind RD and that's a miracle considering the last few eps and the fact that I dont really like him as an actor. But if they dont , at least, mention it in some way. Hell I'll settle for a "My grandfather died here" comment.

Huaracocha
June 3rd, 2011, 06:34 PM
I was a bit surprised that there was no intro/outro from the current day Sanctuary as to why we’re seeing this look into the past of The Five during the war. I was expecting Helen to be telling Will, Henry or Kate a story about those exploits.

Just watched this episode - excellent viewing. That was the only thing I kept waiting for too, some link to the present day to ground it. A picture of Col. Will or his dog tags or something, cue Helen reminiscing. I was left with the feeling she chose Will because of his grandfather's sacrifice that day - "This won't be forgotten." Somehow it might have felt more complete with a present day grounding that meant Will knew about his grandfather's involvement with the 5.

EDIT - OK so that feeling was in error if Helen never knew who he was. Definitely a shame for me and I agree that it seems odd for Helen not to have asked the name of this guy who died face down in the mud for her team & mission. She may have missed it in the heat of the moment but never asked Nigel or anyone afterwards "Who was that brave Yank who helped us?" That's just not cricket.

Skydiver
June 3rd, 2011, 06:37 PM
I think we'll get that in the next episode. it takes place, present day, but in the same location

suse
June 3rd, 2011, 08:40 PM
Makes it even more pointless having RD playing the character.
Not really. It means that RD get the residuals (pay when the eppy re-airs) for the episode. MAD taking care of their own.

suse
June 3rd, 2011, 09:08 PM
I dont like that. Magnus doesnt seem like the type of person who wouldnt even ask the guys name.
A lot of men died that day. She had no idea who he was. Why should she ask about that particular one? If Nigel had told hre how helpful he was, perhaps. But there was no time for that. Casualties happen in war. One can be sad someone died without getting all personal about it.

kes
June 4th, 2011, 05:29 AM
A lot of men died that day. She had no idea who he was. Why should she ask about that particular one? If Nigel had told hre how helpful he was, perhaps. But there was no time for that. Casualties happen in war. One can be sad someone died without getting all personal about it.

IMO: I see Magnus as someone who would want to know who they were. They werent that many. Plus he was the commanding officer.

Huaracocha
June 4th, 2011, 05:39 AM
I tend to agree with kes, I'm struggling to imagine a scenario where Helen and Nigel never had a conversation about that day that brought up where these soldiers came from who saved them. I guess Nigel could have forgotten Col. Will's name or just referred to him as their C/O but it all seems like going to lengths to invent a scenario so that Helen could not know who he was when the far more natural one would have been for her to have been aware of him.

Skydiver
June 4th, 2011, 05:43 AM
who's to say that she didn't know, later? At that point in time they were still mopping up, she and watson literally walked over bodies to get their mission done...also I think people are projecting helen of today onto helen of 60+ years ago. We don't even know if the sanctuary network existed yet (my feelings are that it didn't), she and the others were simply almost a group of super heroes, doing government tasks and solving problems and were also just starting to deal with the issues like we saw with Korba....you are so spry for 80, me want that knowledge.

I think they were living in discretion and just learning that they needed to step back, blend in and not be noticed if they wanted to survive without ending up in some laboratory being studied.

Huaracocha
June 4th, 2011, 06:44 AM
who's to say that she didn't know, later? At that point in time they were still mopping up, she and watson literally walked over bodies to get their mission done...also I think people are projecting helen of today onto helen of 60+ years ago. We don't even know if the sanctuary network existed yet (my feelings are that it didn't), she and the others were simply almost a group of super heroes, doing government tasks and solving problems and were also just starting to deal with the issues like we saw with Korba....you are so spry for 80, me want that knowledge.

I think they were living in discretion and just learning that they needed to step back, blend in and not be noticed if they wanted to survive without ending up in some laboratory being studied.

Well going by the Tapping Tuesday comment someone quoted on here Helen never knew who Col Will was. As to the bolded part, it's a valid point but it still seems to be out of character to me. A decent, honorable person would care who that was who gave their life for them. It's obviously a very small issue and not to hard to get around but hey, what's a fan message board without a little nitpicking? ;)

Skydiver
June 4th, 2011, 09:39 AM
precisely :)

everyone sees helen a different way and have different levels of 'acceptable'

it's bothering some, doesn't bother me. I'm also waiting to see what happens in carantan.

Mandysg1
June 4th, 2011, 10:43 AM
Well going by the Tapping Tuesday comment someone quoted on here Helen never knew who Col Will was. As to the bolded part, it's a valid point but it still seems to be out of character to me. A decent, honorable person would care who that was who gave their life for them. It's obviously a very small issue and not to hard to get around but hey, what's a fan message board without a little nitpicking? ;)

I thought he was a Captain not a Colonel? Anyway, I think during the war, Helen must have seen a lot people and abnormals die, I don't think it would be feasible to remember everyone from then, and as has been mentioned before, Zimmerman is also a rather common name, and there were many years between Captain Zimmerman and Will's mother, you don't always make the connection if they are related.

SG1SGAp90
June 4th, 2011, 06:14 PM
I kind of find it hard to believe and odd that she says he will be remembered then doesn't remember him and his name later on because then what would have been the point of her saying so.


I believe I also noticed that Jack Zimmerman had the same ability to read certain things like when he said if the guys go to that one spot that they would have a good area of cover which I think I saw his eyes moving back & forth like he was studying the area just seconds before he said it.

majorsal
June 4th, 2011, 08:05 PM
watched 'normandy' again. :D

that ending is just beautiful. the music, the sadness of will's grandfather losing his life, the dedication... this scene goes in my top 10 fave scenes from sanctuary.

i wonder what wil would have to say to druitt, if he ever found out that john killed his grandfather's killer? :p

jckfan55
June 5th, 2011, 03:36 PM
I enjoyed the episode. One of the things I liked is that though the Five were involved with D-Day they didn't mess too much with the history.
RD playing grandpa Zimmerman was a bit off to me, but oh well.

I like Helen-Watson working together and can see that they'd have developed a romance for a while. iirc, there was some line from Watson to Druitt about "what you did to her." I have to think it was related to Helen's line in S1 in Kush to Druitt "You destroyed my heart"

Love that Nigel refers to Magnus as "our leader". Good to see more of Nigel's personality.

Skydiver
June 5th, 2011, 04:58 PM
yeah, nigel was fun to see.

his gift is the most...humble. to be invisible and use them he has to bare all, to hide he has to reveal himself.

he seems to be the most grounded of them all, the most normal and least arrogant.

siles
June 6th, 2011, 07:18 AM
yeah, nigel was fun to see.

his gift is the most...humble. to be invisible and use them he has to bare all, to hide he has to reveal himself.

he seems to be the most grounded of them all, the most normal and least arrogant.

I wonder if Nigel can make only part of his body invisible. must watch the episode again

kes
June 6th, 2011, 01:50 PM
Clara could. Her hand becames visible in Revalations pt2

MyMilo
June 8th, 2011, 06:44 PM
just re-watching this episode...yet again! and listening closer to their accents, the Nazi abnormal guy's accent is something else!!! did/do they really speak like that? or is that just acting-accents?

MyMilo
June 8th, 2011, 08:35 PM
sorry, he wasnt an abnormal, his eyes were merely burned from the elemental!

kes
June 10th, 2011, 08:01 AM
Its a very cartoon version of a german accent lol

jckfan55
June 10th, 2011, 04:52 PM
^Hogan's Heroes. :eek: :D

Gatecat
June 12th, 2011, 03:29 AM
just re-watching this episode...yet again! and listening closer to their accents, the Nazi abnormal guy's accent is something else!!! did/do they really speak like that? or is that just acting-accents?

The German parts are all a bit clipped, but that´s due to not beeing their native language. Only the "Heil Hitler" they manage to pronounce fluidly. :rolleyes:
Oh, and Helen is right, Watsons accent is so NOT Bavarian. :D

I´m probably one of the few who doesn´t need the subs for the German parts. :p

I also wonder if Helen remembered Will´s grandfather and choose him because of that. :confused:

Kilgharrah
June 12th, 2011, 06:01 AM
I´m probably one of the few who doesn´t need the subs for the German parts. :p
Not the only one. :D


I also wonder if Helen remembered Will´s grandfather and choose him because of that. :confused:
My thoughts exactly. Helen never does anything without a reason.

sanctuary girl
June 12th, 2011, 10:23 AM
Oh, and Helen is right, Watsons accent is so NOT Bavarian. :D

I´m probably one of the few who doesn´t need the subs for the German parts. :p



I didn't need the subs, but there were moments where I read the subs simply because it was easier for me.

I can only second that Watsons accent is so NOT Bavarian ;), but the other guys accent had been way worse!

AresLover452
July 10th, 2011, 12:15 AM
O_O!! I'MDEADI'MDEADI'MDEADI'VEDIEDI'MDEAD!!!!!

I love Normandy....

i normally don't go for Slash but the James/John scenes were just heart poundingly good!

You could see James's pain at just being in the same room with John after the Colonel was gone.

Icedragon
July 10th, 2011, 11:14 PM
I may be a bit confused as to the time line but wasn't it a long time after the five were created. How was Nigel still alive, I thought he got no longevity stuff from the serum.

Skydiver
July 11th, 2011, 04:20 AM
it was about 60 years or so after the creation of the five. So nigel must have gotten longevity and if he died then he must have died of non-natural causes or maybe his longevity wasn't as strong as everyone else's (watson, iirc, depended on his machine to keep him alive)

Icedragon
July 11th, 2011, 04:55 AM
Thanks for that, but I recall Magnus saying back in Season One that he died of natural causes.

jckfan55
July 11th, 2011, 12:46 PM
^yes, I think he did too. My guess is that they all got at least some longevity, but not to the degree Helen did. It all depends on what dormant genes were activated. Maybe Watson's family all died young so he had no longevity genes and that's why he needed the machine.

Skydiver
July 11th, 2011, 05:15 PM
maybe it's teh difference between an extra 100 years and an extra 150.

there had to be a bit simply because clara was his granddaughter and she seemed to be mid 20'sish, so she'd be born in 1990 let's say, maybe 1985. which would put things pretty on line for griffin and Jeanette (making that presumption) to have been married and have a child post WWII, who then had clara.

I'm wondering if 'natural causes' meant 'jeanette died and I didn't want to live without her'

siles
July 12th, 2011, 10:53 AM
maybe it's teh difference between an extra 100 years and an extra 150.

there had to be a bit simply because clara was his granddaughter and she seemed to be mid 20'sish, so she'd be born in 1990 let's say, maybe 1985. which would put things pretty on line for griffin and Jeanette (making that presumption) to have been married and have a child post WWII, who then had clara.

I'm wondering if 'natural causes' meant 'jeanette died and I didn't want to live without her'

I don't think TPTb thought about all this - they just wanted all the five in "Normandy"

kes
July 13th, 2011, 07:46 AM
I don't think TPTb thought about all this - they just wanted all the five in "Normandy"
Yup. And the worst part is they focus how old Watson, Druitt and Magnus are. And explained why they still look young for each. Ignoring Griffin.

Matt G
July 15th, 2011, 05:26 AM
1. Surprised that we went straight back to 1944 but then again...there was SGA's Vegas!

2. Watson was only 80-odd at that point, surely turning off the machine then wouldn't have killed him.

3. RD as Jack Zimmerman, fine...saves hiring another actor for the role.

4. Vaguely got the Easy Company reference. Never watched Band of Brothers!

5. Was it me or did the US-SS agent also look similar to Will!

Certainly fun

Skydiver
July 15th, 2011, 10:39 AM
re watson, the shock of all that aging might have killed him, but yeah, theoretically he was still in his 'normal' life span

fems
July 15th, 2011, 01:16 PM
I didn't really took the "Darling"-comment as them (Magnus/Watson) being in a relationship. From what we've seen of the Five's interactions, I always got the idea that Watson had romantic feelings for Helen (especially when he died) but she didn't reciprocate, just cared deeply for him as a close friend.

Didn't need the subs either, but I have to say I was a bit disappointed with most of the accents.

As for Griffin's age, I'm going to assume Helen helped Watson, Griffin and Druitt with her blood at one time. After that, Griffin aged naturally (possibly because of his and Jeannette's relationship), Watson had his suit to keep him "young" and Druitt eventually came back for more.

I didn't really like RD as Will's grandfather either, but that sort of thing happens a lot in shows so I just go with it. However, I have to agree with, what I think is the minority here, in that keeping track of the Zimmerman's was not something Helen would have done. A lot of people lost their lives in WWII and she probably lost a lot of friends too, if not from old age at that time then perhaps in the war. In my opinion she referred to the battle that had taken place and the sacrifices made with her comment, instead of trying to find out every fallen soldier's name. Not to mention that she (and the rest of the Five) probably should've stayed low at that time, considering they weren't really supposed to be there to begin with.

siles
July 15th, 2011, 01:29 PM
1. Surprised that we went straight back to 1944 but then again...there was SGA's Vegas!

2. Watson was only 80-odd at that point, surely turning off the machine then wouldn't have killed him.

3. RD as Jack Zimmerman, fine...saves hiring another actor for the role.

4. Vaguely got the Easy Company reference. Never watched Band of Brothers!

5. Was it me or did the US-SS agent also look similar to Will!

Certainly fun

Don't even think of comparing Normandy with SGA's Vegas. The latter was million times better - Johnny Cash FTW http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoyNLAmOt6k

kes
July 15th, 2011, 03:40 PM
As for Griffin's age, I'm going to assume Helen helped Watson, Griffin and Druitt with her blood at one time. After that, Griffin aged naturally (possibly because of his and Jeannette's relationship), Watson had his suit to keep him "young" and Druitt eventually came back for more.


At that point she still thought her blood was the reason for Jack the Ripper. She wouldnt give it to anyone else.

suse
July 15th, 2011, 03:46 PM
Don't even think of comparing Normandy with SGA's Vegas. The latter was million times better - Johnny Cash FTW http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoyNLAmOt6k
;) In Your Humble Opinion.

Skydiver
July 15th, 2011, 05:58 PM
yes please, opinion are not fact.

some can find an episode a masterpiece, others a self-indulgent piece of drek

so, moving on.

kes
July 16th, 2011, 02:54 AM
Actually she says it in Sanctuary for all. Well sure, she says something like: "I gave him my blood and it all went wrong" - and ppl can interpet that diferently but to me, she thought it was the blood. Just like we are speculating she gave Griffin the blood. Lets face it, Griffin's age is a giant plot hole.

Skydiver
July 16th, 2011, 05:54 AM
it's possible that helen was the only one that got longevity. when she realized all her friends were going to die, she gave them her blood to see if they'd get it.

and yeah, nigel's age and appearance is a plot hole :) (but if he did indeed marry jeanette and have a child, at least that timing is right)

siles
July 16th, 2011, 06:26 AM
it's possible that helen was the only one that got longevity. when she realized all her friends were going to die, she gave them her blood to see if they'd get it.

and yeah, nigel's age and appearance is a plot hole :) (but if he did indeed marry jeanette and have a child, at least that timing is right)

Well, Tesla was a vampire so he was immortal too

suse
July 16th, 2011, 03:36 PM
it's possible that helen was the only one that got longevity. when she realized all her friends were going to die, she gave them her blood to see if they'd get it.

and yeah, nigel's age and appearance is a plot hole :) (but if he did indeed marry jeanette and have a child, at least that timing is right)

I'm not at all fussed with assuming that all of The Five's aging slowed, just not as drastically as Helen and Nicola's.

hisg1fans
July 16th, 2011, 07:09 PM
Just watched this for the very first time. Haven't seen any other episodes previous to this one since the show started again this spring. Plus, haven't read any of this thread yet.

I liked it. It wasn't as good as a couple other episodes, but I really liked the time period and the communication device. I am a WWII history buff, so enjoyed all the real references. Would liked to have seen a little more time spent on the Nazi use of abnormals though.

So was the German colonel (the good looking one) an abnormal after his eyes were burned? Or just a human with burned eyes?

Didn't like AT's outfit.

Kilgharrah
July 17th, 2011, 03:00 AM
So was the German colonel (the good looking one) an abnormal after his eyes were burned? Or just a human with burned eyes?
He's not anything near an abnormal. It was just an accident. Nothing changed in him. As far as we know.

selene0789
August 30th, 2011, 06:35 PM
I was totally looking forward to a 1940s episode, so we could see Magnus in one of those iconic dresses, but to me, the fashion of the episode felt more mod than 1940s. Does that count as her "red head" years that AT was mentioning a bit ago?

All that aside, this episode really got to me, because of its approach to the war and the reverence with which they treated the history. I'm a service member, and the thank you they flashed at the end of the episode was really superfluous-- the message was delivered in the episode's content.

Overall, an astounding episode that blew my mind.

AresLover452
November 21st, 2013, 06:14 PM
I still get the shivers when John rips open James's shirt befor ethe whole tortre things begins!! hahaha!

Sparky She-Demon
November 22nd, 2013, 06:46 AM
I still get the shivers when John rips open James's shirt befor ethe whole tortre things begins!! hahaha!

This is one of my favorite episodes period!

AresLover452
November 22nd, 2013, 03:21 PM
I get slashy thoughts when Johnand James are int he sme room ith the other! and this episode just made them worse! LMAO! I mean... damn... John just RIPPED open James's shirt.... O_O!! hahahaha! Honestly though, the firt time I saw that scene I about fell to the floor! lol! the whole EPISODE was AMAZING!