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GateWorld
April 18th, 2011, 07:41 AM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/sanctuary/s3/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/wingman-160x120.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">SANCTUARY SEASON THREE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/sanctuary/s3/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">WINGMAN</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 315</FONT>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0;">Will and Henry's double date goes awry when Magnus insists they do a straight-forward delivery of an Abnormal on the way to their dinner reservations. <I>(SPACE)</I></DIV>
<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/sanctuary/s3/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Feast of the Muse
May 9th, 2011, 08:07 PM
Ok, without spoiling anything for anyone (as long as you've seen the trailer for this ep), this was soooo much better than our last date night with Abby. Henry and Erica are very cute together - their combined geek-quotient is off the charts and fun to watch. Could have done with more Helen, but I'd say that to everything but Breach. :D

I enjoyed the interaction at the end. Helen is very sweet! And apparently, very persuasive.

I'll watch it again later, but I doubt it'll get much replay after that. Not a whole lot of depth as far as conspiracy or story arc. I'm trying to say there isn't much to read into. :P

I still want to slap Abby and Will for not being able to focus, though!

KayLyne
May 9th, 2011, 08:35 PM
I must say that I'm highly disappointed. I guess I expected much more from the MAD braintrust, especially after all of the great episodes from the first half of season 3. I really wish someone would have warned me that this was going to be a "clip" show. I wouldn't have had such high expectations. Considering the last two eppys were underwhelming, I was hoping this one would break the slump.

That didn't happen.

I did like Henry/Erica. And as annoying as Abby was in the previous episode, I actually kind of liked her scenes with Henry and with Erica. I guess it's just the scenes she has with Will that bring forth no chemistry whatsoever. Even the final scene when open-shirted Will and pantless Abby came to get the food from Helen & Henry made me shudder with "Ewwwww".

In all, I'd say it's only one step up from "One Night" in the 'never watch again' episode basement.

Oh, and was that Peter Deluise in front of the camera this time? That was probably the highlight for me from this episode.

Rocky89
May 9th, 2011, 09:09 PM
Very good and fun episode in my opinion. :)

I liked how both Will and Henry wanted that back room at Alfredo's, and how Helen ruined their dates with that mission. :p I didn't know this was a clip show, so I was very pleasantly to see clips from old episodes. :) As soon as I aw that clip from Breach I squeed. :p

I really liked this episode because I think that we were able to take a stroll memory lane, it was good to see these clips because we were all able to see how far the show has come, take a look back at old adventures, and see the fun they've had with each other for the last 3 years. :) I think this was as much a treat to the cast and crew making this ep, as much as it was for us to watch it. :) I remember where I was in my life, and how I was in my life during each episode, and to see so many great clips again, not only bring back fun Sanctuary memories, but RL as well.

The whole episode was good, and it was fun to see Peter DeLuise. :D As much as I want Henry to find love, I hope he finds it with Kate. :) The last scene was the best, it really show the almost mother/son relationship, and how she'd help one of her team if they're down. :) Overall, it was a good episode, and I loved seeing angry Magnus. :D

Feast of the Muse
May 9th, 2011, 09:09 PM
I guess it doesn't bother me so much about the clip show and lack of Helen because that means they are spending the time and energy elsewhere - which means we're going to have episodes as wicked as For King and Country and Breach again very soon.

EvenstarSRV
May 9th, 2011, 09:41 PM
Not too bad for a mostly clip show. I'm likely in the minority, but I usually rather enjoy ciip shows if the story framework for the flashbacks is done well, with BSG's Downloaded probably being the best I've seen.

Wingman wasn't quite as successful, but it still worked for me because of the character interactions and the framework of a classic Sanctuary monster-hunt. Plus the Super!Magnus and 'well done Henry' montages were quite fun to see. Though the 'date night gone wrong' idea is beyond done at this point IMO. If we see Abby or Erika again I sincerely hope the writers come up with better reasons for their presence.

The Henry and Erika storyline was my favorite, they played off each other well and it was nice to see the progression of their relationship from Animus, as well as Henry's continuing journey of dealing with being a HAP. I didn't care for Abby and Will anymore than I did in One Night, but at least this time Henry and Erika were able to break up the pairing more.

It was fun seeing Ernie again, though them needing that recording of the female to calm the mothman down was rather predictable. The ending was also nice with Helen bringing Alfredo's to the Sanctuary, though I could have done without Will and Abby's half-dressed snack break. :S

Looking for next week's episode and the return of Tesla. :)

Steff
May 9th, 2011, 09:58 PM
Clip Show. :(

KayLyne
May 9th, 2011, 10:33 PM
I think the most disappointing part for me was the ending. If Will & Abby would have made themselves more presentable and decided to join Henry & Helen at the table, it would have been much more in tune with the theme of this show: all of these different people/creatures being a family. And I was also expecting Kate & Big Guy to be at the table enjoying the food from Alfredo's as well. Very disappointing.

Steff
May 9th, 2011, 10:47 PM
I think the most disappointing part for me was the ending. If Will & Abby would have made themselves more presentable and decided to join Henry & Helen at the table, it would have been much more in tune with the theme of this show: all of these different people/creatures being a family. And I was also expecting Kate & Big Guy to be at the table enjoying the food from Alfredo's as well. Very disappointing.

Yes, this part was disappointing for me also. Helen had raised Henry from a young boy and this seemed to be a glimpse into a sweet mother son moment. I think that she had this prepared for him if things did not go will with Erika. So yes, I was disappointed when the other two rudely interrupted the moment. And I didn't like their dress, or lack of, at all.

blazingfire
May 9th, 2011, 11:08 PM
Meh, less than ok episode.

Can we have less of Abby (preferably none) in the future??

dee
May 10th, 2011, 12:13 AM
I like Henry and Erica to, they do make a good pair. I thought Will was mean for not giving up the table for Henry to propose to Erica, NO resturant is that good that you cant give it up for somthing that important, none. did I see a future spoiler of Druitt with a little hair? any body else see it? and our fav ex-vamp is back to being a vamp?

sanctuary girl
May 10th, 2011, 12:23 AM
Can we have less of Abby (preferably none) in the future??

seconded!

I liked the episode, it's not one of the best ones, but I really enjoyed the Henry and Erica moments. Abby is ... is there a stronger expression for "annoying as hell" that I can write in here?;)

I loved the end, when Helen asks Henry to come with her, so sweet. And then it gets ruined by two adults who don't know how to behave.:rolleyes: Ok, Will lost his mother when he was a boy, so he maybe didn't learn better, but what is Abbys excuse to show up at the dinner table of other people without propper clothes???:S

nesais
May 10th, 2011, 02:51 AM
some of the music was pretty nice. other than that, the clip show elements made me cringe. the character moments i suppose were "nice". i liked the look on abbys face when will told her henry had copied her phones memory to his hard drive. other than that, the last few eps have felt a little lacking for me

Chelle DB
May 10th, 2011, 03:10 AM
So when One Night aired, I said the only way is up...well maybe it's gonna be a slow climb up. Not enthralled by this ep. Actually, if I was new to the Sanctuary game, I'm not so sure I would stick with it. But knowing that MAD can pump out some of the most amazing things I've seen on television, I'm going to persevere coz I've heard that the next few eps are gonna be so much better. I hope.
I'm just disappointed that season 3.5 is just not what I have come to expect from Sanctuary.
I still like Abby, I like Erica and I would have loved to have seen more banter between the girls.
Loved and hated PDL's character...hated more than loved but I did love seeing him on the show. :P
That part when Abby asks "what's going on now?" and Henry says "still don't know I'm in the same van as you"...why does that sound familiar??
No worst parts and no best parts either...just a very average no excitement kinda show.
Actually, the best part was the end...love how Helen had the angliotti ready for Henry...a bit miffed that Will took it...cheeky bugger. :P
Ok, so Helen actually made the dinner or did she get Alfredo to deliver even though he doesn't?? Either way, that was sweet and the best part of the ep for me. :)

Skydiver
May 10th, 2011, 04:09 AM
i think my biggest thought....they were on a time crunch to catch the mothman...and will and abby yak and yak and yak...it was a exposition festival. Focus kids, focus.

If I were helen I'd beak the couple up simply because Will is relatively useless when Abby is around.

Henry and Erica do fine

and yes, will was very self-absorbed in not giving up the table, in stealing the food off the table...almost OTT eager to please iwth Abby. Dare I hope there's more to her?

Chelle DB
May 10th, 2011, 04:52 AM
I think what's missing is that Helen would have caught that bug dude before the table got cancelled...clearly dining at Alfredo's isn't enough incentive to quit yakking and catch the abby...mind you having said that it wasn't just Will that slacked off...even Henry wasn't really on his best performance...yes he MacGyver'ed the sound system but both boys seemed a little sedate.
Still, I like Abby. There's something sweet about her...something normal :)

RealmOfX
May 10th, 2011, 06:30 AM
I'm glad I knew this was a clip show so I viewed it with no expectations (clip shows are a pet hate of mine).

I think they are seriously missing the mark with Abby. It doesn't matter which way I view the character, she is written badly. Too ditzy for an FBI agent, too annoying when with Will and too damn obvious for a plant with ulterior motives. Sorry Damian & Co but you need to go back to the drawing board with this one.

On the plus side Henry and Erica were good.

On the minus side, even allowing for the fact that I'm half blind, wasn't the moth man a bit cheesy looking?

On the plus side Abby wasn't quite as annoying when she was with Henry.

Overall it was... a clip show. Unfortunately their pacing for the season was off and putting a few meh episodes in a row wasn't a good idea as they lost the momentum from the first half of the season. I know that they were saving money for some of the bigger episodes and I think the last 5 eps will be good to great but seriously after a string of meh eppies I'm ready for some good Sanctuary eps like I know they can do.

Celandine
May 10th, 2011, 07:18 AM
Just some observations...

-When Henry showed Will the ring. Totally a girl reaction. Will has changed since S1 and definitely not for the better. He's gotten too soft. Plus, he should have given the table at the restaurant to Henry and Erica considering the situation.

-Wandering through the sewers chasing a moth man. Unarmed for the most part? I can think of one other ep (title escapes me), but they were alert and armed. Not chatty like they were taking a stroll in the park.

-Abby is too ditzy. Will, I thought, was an intelligent guy. How could he fall for someone who seems to have no brains?

-The last scene. Helen was trying to make Henry feel better with a special dinner since she kinda guessed what happened between him and Erica. Instead, Will and Abby come in half naked and steal it out from under their noses? Helen is too nice to say anything and Henry is like, 'WTF?' Will was a bit callous here and I certainly didnt find it amusing.

Only thing that really made me smile was Henry and Erica's geek talk. Other than that, I was less impressed with this ep, and not just because it was a clip episode. Let's just say, I was able to play Words with Friends while watching cos I certainly wasnt on the edge of my seat.

I do hope the remaining episodes are better because these last three have just been sad examples of what Sanctuary can do. New viewers to the show might start to wonder how in the heck it could have won so many Leo nominations...

Mandysg1
May 10th, 2011, 07:21 AM
Yes it was a clip show, but I knew that coming into the show. It wasn't bad for a clip show and much, much better than One Night. I do think the presence of Henry and Erica saved the show. As stated before Abby wasn't as bad when she was with Henry, I guess Will is just a boring date ;) The last scene with Henry and Helen was quite nice, and shows how much Helen cares for him. Though I didn't care for the juvenile antics of Will and Abby, really you don't enter a room with Helen in it, NOT dressed. I guess the writer had to say, hey look Will got lucky :rolleyes:

MelissaAdams
May 10th, 2011, 08:05 AM
Well I have to say that I really enjoyed this episode MUCH more than One Night. Every season if we go back and think about it has a few episodes that are this and that and we knew this was coming. Amanda, Martin and others have said they splurged their budget on Normandy and that means they had to fill a 20 episode order regardless of how they spent the money. One night so far is the low for me, not because it wasn't good just a little too much giggly first date stuff.

But now back onto Wingman I have to say this episode was much better in the Sanctuary universe. I didn't have high hopes for it as Abby, I just don't like her...I don't hate her and I can watch her but she's like Kate was in season 2, if she wasn't there I wouldnt loose sleep over it.

Erica and Henry are cute together I agree but I was like Will when Henry pulled out that ring...it was like...Wha...dude, really?

Have to say as well the Moth Man was jsut great, I loved him. One of my favorite abnormals if a little bit scary and stuff. LOL But still nice.

And it goes without saying how GREAT Helen was in this episode. I love how she said she was delivering that baby and if the guys wanted to monitor 'HIS' cervix she'd be happy to go and they were quickly...nope, not gonna happen, we'll take the van. LOL And the end the look on her face when Abby and Will came in wearing barely anything and just asking if they were going to jon them for dinner was GREAT. Loved it, my favorite scene of the episode minus Magnus being 'pissed' at the boys about the fridge.

Very nice episode, I give it a 7 out of 10 where as One Night only had a 4 or 4.5 out of ten for me.

siles
May 10th, 2011, 08:19 AM
i think my biggest thought....they were on a time crunch to catch the mothman...and will and abby yak and yak and yak...it was a exposition festival. Focus kids, focus.

If I were helen I'd beak the couple up simply because Will is relatively useless when Abby is around.

Henry and Erica do fine

and yes, will was very self-absorbed in not giving up the table, in stealing the food off the table...almost OTT eager to please iwth Abby. Dare I hope there's more to her?

I dread that they'll make her a regular next season. All in all another craptacular episode - The only bit i liked was Henry/Erica

Spimman
May 10th, 2011, 08:39 AM
When they cut to the van rockin' with Henry\Erica inside and then showed that they were just wiring up the speakers :lol:

Klenotka
May 10th, 2011, 09:36 AM
Clip Show? Seriously? I thought they don´t do that on TV anymore :(
Anyway, I loved last week´s episode and I looked forward to some nice moments between Henry and Will. Abby wasn´t nearly as annoying as last time which is good because it looks like she will stick around for a while.

Steff
May 10th, 2011, 11:31 AM
Very good and fun episode in my opinion. :)

...

The last scene was the best, it really show the almost mother/son relationship, and how she'd help one of her team if they're down. :) Overall, it was a good episode, and I loved seeing angry Magnus. :D

So Space switched Sanctuary to Mondays too? That will keep people from watching at illegal sites or downloading illegally.

The last scene, helen/henry, was my fav up to the interruption. *grrrrr*

Kilgharrah
May 10th, 2011, 01:06 PM
Seriously this is crap. Every week I tell myself that it's gonna get better. This is not sanctuary. Are Robin Dunne and the Abby actress bribing the producers?? It looks that way.
What's with all the flashback? I do like to see some of the old stuff, but it shouldn't take up the whole episode. Should I also mention the funny look of the mothman??!!!!!
I think that Will and Abby are suitable for each other. They are both irritating. Why don't they just kill Will. They should have killed him instead of Ashley. Every time he's in danger, he doesn't die. What's so special about him.
And it's enough of Abby. If you want to get new females on the show, then get one who's fun, not irritating and hot. Not that Abby.
I missed Magnus. Magnus is my favorite character, next to Tesla of course, but I'm talking about the regular cast. Where was she??? And same goes for Kate and Biggie.
The only thing that made this episode a bit acceptable was Henry.
Henry and Erica were the couple that I finally like and this is what happens???!!!
What happened to sanctuary?? It's not the same anymore.
The last three episodes felt Grey's Anatomy-ish. Lots and lots of romance alongside the thrill. In fact, these episodes were not as good as Grey's Anatomy. They were really really terrible.

EH-T
May 10th, 2011, 01:18 PM
So Space switched Sanctuary to Mondays too? That will keep people from watching at illegal sites or downloading illegally. The last scene, helen/henry, was my fav up to the interruption. *grrrrr*



No, it is still on Fridays. I cannot speak for others but I haven't seen the episode and won't see it until Space airs it on Friday.

suse
May 10th, 2011, 01:47 PM
i think my biggest thought....they were on a time crunch to catch the mothman...and will and abby yak and yak and yak...it was a exposition festival. Focus kids, focus.

If I were helen I'd beak the couple up simply because Will is relatively useless when Abby is around.

Henry and Erica do fine

and yes, will was very self-absorbed in not giving up the table, in stealing the food off the table...almost OTT eager to please iwth Abby. Dare I hope there's more to her?


Agreed, that was very tacky to steal the food. Unclothed at that!! I hope there is more to her. I keep hoping, but...I'm afraid there isn't. :S I enjoyed her more this ep than I did in One Night, but yes, that yakyakyakyakyakyakyakaykayakayak between Will and Abby was beyond annoying. :( I was yelling at the tv.

I didn't mind it being a clip show. It brought out old stuff that speaks to the characters and where they are now. As far as it went, I thought that was well done.

dipsofjazz
May 10th, 2011, 01:48 PM
Another disappointing episode.

Will and Abby are boring together. It's all talk,talk,whine,talk. Get rid of Abby, please.
In contrast, Henry and Erica have a nice chemistry, especially when they geek out.

Perhaps it's just as well that s4 has 13 episodes, so hopefully we won't have to put up with another clip-show.

The best part of the episode is Helen and Henry at the end.......up until Will and Abby enter.

I really hope the rest of the season is better than these last three episodes. If I'd been a new viewer, I doubt I would stick around after watching these.

lizzy4ever
May 10th, 2011, 01:54 PM
Clip Show? Seriously? I thought they don´t do that on TV anymore :(


I think it's a way to make a cheaper episode after you made costly ones.
I wasn't glad to hear we'd get only 13 episodes for season 4, but if this means less 'weak' episodes like this one I won't complain.

I thought the moth man looked really fake :)
As for Abby, she really doesn't interest me as a character, for all the reasons mentionned in the previous posts, but I found her less annoying than in One Night, probably because the episode was not focused on her and Will like in One Night.
Again, I missed Magnus, but the last scene was really sweet!

And I love Erica's line "She looks always so prim and proper". She hasn't witnessed bad-ass Magnus yet :D

majorsal
May 10th, 2011, 03:06 PM
thoughts on ep.

*better than 'one night'. :p

*abby's annoying. too giddy and flighty.

*henry with his girlfriend was better, but only b/c his girlfriend didn't make me grit my teeth. :p

*stop the flimsy filler eps. i'm thinking 13 eps a season might fit best for sanct. *looks anxiously around for the MAD team :S*

*my fave scene was the end, with helen taking care of henry. lovely, lovely scene between the two, and i wish they'd do more with them together.

*least fave moment, though, is will and abby coming in to steal their food. WITHOUT BEING PROPERLY DRESSED. i'm not a prude, but helen is will's boss, show some bloody respect. :mckay: @ will

oh, and get your own food!



on a side note: does anyone else think that amanda/helen is just grace on legs? the moment this woman enters a scene, the quality of *everything* goes through the roof! :p (to me)

EvenstarSRV
May 10th, 2011, 04:11 PM
I think it's a way to make a cheaper episode after you made costly ones.
I wasn't glad to hear we'd get only 13 episodes for season 4, but if this means less 'weak' episodes like this one I won't complain.


Several shows still use clip shows, serial ones like Lost or BSG to catch casual viewers up on ongoing story arcs, or shows like Stargate where it's almost a production necessity (along with bottle shows) to save money so they can afford bigger, more expensive episodes like season finales. Considering Sanctuary's usually tight budget, I'm not surprised that they likely needed a clip show and the other bottle-type shows we've had (Hangover, One Night), these last few episodes in order to afford the expensive ones coming up (Normandy, etc) and make-up for the expensive eps from S3.0 (Hollow Men, etc).

BSG had similar seasons to me when they went from 13 to 20 eps, strong first half followed by a weak 3rd quarter and ending in a strong final 3-4 episodes. Sanctuary looks to make a similar recovery starting with next week's episode, so I personally don't mind clip shows like this since they help pay for the 'bigger, better' episodes down the line. :)



And I love Erica's line "She looks always so prim and proper". She hasn't witnessed bad-ass Magnus yet :D

Heh, yeah, I think even though the writers weren't expecting the move to Monday night, the flashbacks may help new viewers get caught up a bit on some aspects of the show that we haven't seen much of the last few episodes (Magnus fighting, Henry doing his tech stuff, all the abnormals, etc).

Julian
May 10th, 2011, 07:08 PM
Wow, so why does "cheap show" have to equate to a "Helen Magnus"-less show? I wouldn't mind the lack of action or FX if it were written well... but this is just a cheesy as hell episode. Tackey story and I agree with the hate for Abbey.

I also don't like the way they've dealt with her in the show. She popped up when, start of S03? And then nothing for at least 10 eps, and then suddenly she's back and on a date with Will? And then in Metamorphosis she is mentioned, but he doesn't contact her back or anything, and then now they're on a date?

I don't like it when they do this with the show... just like how they got back from Hollow Earth and they completely ignored they'd been there until they contacted Ranna in E14?

mandogater
May 10th, 2011, 09:29 PM
That part when Abby asks "what's going on now?" and Henry says "still don't know I'm in the same van as you"...why does that sound familiar??

Actually, the best part was the end...love how Helen had the angliotti ready for Henry...a bit miffed that Will took it...cheeky bugger. :P
Ok, so Helen actually made the dinner or did she get Alfredo to deliver even though he doesn't?? Either way, that was sweet and the best part of the ep for me. :)

The Abby and Henry conversation is a bit like one Woolsey and O'Neill have in Atlantis' Return Part II.

Is it me or is Will regressing a bit? Swipping Henry's angliotti was just low and who in their right mind walks into a room where your boss is looking like that?

For a clip show it wasn't bad. Thankfully the Abby annoyingness was balanced out with the chemistry between Henry and Erica. They are cute together but breaking them up frees the writers to play with the chemistry between Henry and Kate more.

mjwalshe
May 11th, 2011, 03:26 AM
Just some observations...

Only thing that really made me smile was Henry and Erica's geek talk. Other than that, I was less impressed with this ep, and not just because it was a clip episode. Let's just say, I was able to play Words with Friends while watching cos I certainly wasnt on the edge of my seat.

.

Actually I thought the example they used was poor if they where geeking out over audio formats it would have been 192 kHz/24-bit and using a pro +10db system to play it back non of this lossy formats and mobile phones and land lines allways rubbish audio wise - for good technical reasons to save bandwidth.

Klenotka
May 11th, 2011, 03:36 AM
I also don't like the way they've dealt with her in the show. She popped up when, start of S03? And then nothing for at least 10 eps, and then suddenly she's back and on a date with Will? And then in Metamorphosis she is mentioned, but he doesn't contact her back or anything, and then now they're on a date?

I don't like it when they do this with the show... just like how they got back from Hollow Earth and they completely ignored they'd been there until they contacted Ranna in E14?

This is my problem, too. I liked how they tried at least to deal with consequenses after Kali but we saw Will mutate into a bug last episode and they don´t even mention it?
This is one of the things I used to mind about Stargate (SG1, mostly). Something happened and they basically deleted it in following episodes.

I like Will a lot but I hate how they wrote him in this episode. He was rude and Abby? Seriously? He can do better than that. Not mentioning that she took a screentime from Kate who is, if I am not mistaken one of the main characters? :(
I hope in more team episodes in the future.

kv0921
May 11th, 2011, 06:06 AM
I understand where all of you guys are coming from as far as disliking the episode. I personally didn't like it as much as the others, One night was not my favorite because I hate Abby. I will defend the fact that I didn't think it was a clip show, it was mainly Abby or Erica asking about things and using flashbacks to tell the story to answer the questions.

Im sure the ratings will go up for next week though, Teslas in it.

NumberSix
May 11th, 2011, 10:43 AM
I thought this was definitely better than the last 2 eps. I didn't mind the flashbacks, but I kept thinking that this was one of those episodes where they were able to save some money. I liked the "good job Henry" bunch the best, and then thought it was funny how they then showed a bunch of times when he messed up.

The van shaking scene - that type of scene has been used so many times - but they still had fun with it and I was immediately thinking 'okay so what are they really doing?' I like Henry and Erica together, especially when they get excited about techie stuff and you can tell they both love it and love that the other one loves it.

Abby? Well she's still not my favorite character by any means but she didn't seem quite as annoying as the other eps, most of the time.

I agree the last scene with Will and Abby walking in half dressed and stealing the food was tacky. Like they had to announce to everyone "hey we just did it!" Just poor taste especially with your boss. Someone needs to teach these kids some manners.

jckfan55
May 11th, 2011, 11:13 AM
Not too bad for a mostly clip show. I'm likely in the minority, but I usually rather enjoy ciip shows if the story framework for the flashbacks is done well, with BSG's Downloaded probably being the best I've seen.

Wingman wasn't quite as successful, but it still worked for me because of the character interactions and the framework of a classic Sanctuary monster-hunt. Plus the Super!Magnus and 'well done Henry' montages were quite fun to see.

yes. "But she seems so prim and proper." :D I thought they handled the clips pretty well. I didn't time it, but it *felt* like only 1/2 clips.



Though the 'date night gone wrong' idea is beyond done at this point IMO. If we see Abby or Erika again I sincerely hope the writers come up with better reasons for their presence. too true. I was thinking: what is this, date night at the Sanctuary? I did love Magnus' "Perfect, you 4 can take the van." :D
That and "you realize that has ceased to be a rhetorical question."


The Henry and Erika storyline was my favorite, they played off each other well and it was nice to see the progression of their relationship from Animus, as well as Henry's continuing journey of dealing with being a HAP. I didn't care for Abby and Will anymore than I did in One Night, but at least this time Henry and Erika were able to break up the pairing more.

Yes, Will and Abby are painful to me. And that ending 1/2 clothed scene. ish.

Overall enjoyable despite W & A. Not on my must re-watch list though.

and I want my Magnus back. :)

jckfan55
May 11th, 2011, 11:14 AM
Yes, this part was disappointing for me also. Helen had raised Henry from a young boy and this seemed to be a glimpse into a sweet mother son moment. I think that she had this prepared for him if things did not go will with Erika. So yes, I was disappointed when the other two rudely interrupted the moment. And I didn't like their dress, or lack of, at all.

yes. Another reason to dislike these two.

Skydiver
May 11th, 2011, 11:52 AM
yeah, if they were going to steal food they could have at least been dressed but slightly disheveled and 'man we're hungry' and henry goes 'what have you been doing' helen says 'henry....' implying 'my son, if you have to ask...'

it just felt frathousy

MelissaAdams
May 11th, 2011, 12:20 PM
LOL, I actually didn't mind that scene so much mainly because of the look Helen gave Will. She was polite asking if they were joining them however you could see in her eyes she was thinking, we are so going to talk about this later. Boy would I love to be a fly on the wall for that discussion. LOL

My favorite scene though has to be when Magnus asks them to pick up the crate, you can just see how badly they all want out of it then when she tells them why she's busy and both say Noooooooo to monitoring that things cervix...I mean come on that was PRICELESS.

Dutchess
May 11th, 2011, 02:36 PM
I must say the show has changed for the worst. Dont get me wrong, it is still great but if this downward spiral continues, I may stop watching. First of all, Will has become a lot more immature and childish like the other. I would have preferred if he remained an adult Helen could relate to instead of joining the others in their carefree nature.

I have to agree with the others. Abby has really pulled down the show. She is getting too much airtime and is really cheapening the show for me. I would love to see more of John, Nikola and yes, more Magnus. They would add more of an adult aspect to Sanctuary and increase my dying interest.

With that said, I STILL LOVE SANCTUARY!!!!!!

Feast of the Muse
May 11th, 2011, 03:33 PM
LOL, I actually didn't mind that scene so much mainly because of the look Helen gave Will. She was polite asking if they were joining them however you could see in her eyes she was thinking, we are so going to talk about this later. Boy would I love to be a fly on the wall for that discussion. LOL

Yes - this! Will does take too many liberties. He doesn't see Helen so much as boss as mother hen, and after his time being the outcast in his jobs, he finds himself in a place where he is comfortable. And he is getting comfortable. Helen was not pleased with him at all, but you could tell she was more concerned with loving on Henry than scolding Will at that moment. He'll get told off, probably off-camera, but Helen Magnus does not tolerate that in her house! LOL



I would love to see more of John, Nikola and yes, more Magnus. They would add more of an adult aspect to Sanctuary and increase my dying interest.

With that said, I STILL LOVE SANCTUARY!!!!!!

Yes and yes!

MidwifeOnBoard
May 11th, 2011, 05:48 PM
*sigh* All I can say is that at least we appear to get eps that focus on the grownups for the rest of the season.

My Bullets:

1. I love you, Sanctuary, but this half-season has been extraordinarily underwhelming. :(

2. I'll grant you a clip show after 7 season, but after 2.5? No way.

3. Will *sigh* He just doesn't have the gravitas to carry a show. Sorry. I do not believe him as this brilliant mind for a minute with all the dumb stuff he does. I think it's safe to say that I'm smarter than Will, and while I am a fairly intelligent person, I am very, very far from rocket scientist smart. (And I'm totally okay with that! I have friends who are rocket scientists, and I don't particularly want their lives. ;) )

4. If I wanted to see teenagers on a date, I'd watch Gossip Girl. These are grown men in their 30s, they need to be men. And before anyone gets all, "but Henry was going to propose to that girl," his reasons for proposing were gigantically adolescent. It was the 'she makes me feel all warm and mushy inside.' There was no commitment, trust, relationship there at all.

5. I'm hoping beyond hope that the last 5 eps give more of the Sanctuary grownups. Don't get me wrong, I love good team eps. "Bank Job" was really fun and enjoyable because Magnus was the center but we got to see the great things the rest of the team have to offer.

Don't mean to be a downer, because, I do love the show. It's just that they've set a very high bar, so when they fall, it's a long way down.

Skydiver
May 11th, 2011, 07:28 PM
to be fair, sg1 had a clip show in its first season (politics)

I do agree that will is getting comfy in his job, too comfy maybe? too at ease? too cocky? it's like he has the knowledge of the abbies but not the respect for them.

EvenstarSRV
May 11th, 2011, 08:16 PM
to be fair, sg1 had a clip show in its first season (politics)

I do agree that will is getting comfy in his job, too comfy maybe? too at ease? too cocky? it's like he has the knowledge of the abbies but not the respect for them.

Yeah, there's a immaturity to Will these last few episodes like him and Abby at the end of this ep or his rant at Henry in Hangover, that I don't really think fits the character. Maybe it's a reaction to dying again, or it's just the influence of Abby, but it makes me miss the Will of the first 2 seasons and S3.0. Though to be fair I really liked him in Metamorphosis, esp his scenes with Helen and Kate.

Rocky89
May 11th, 2011, 08:33 PM
I thought this episode was quite good. :)

I've either liked or dislike clip shows, depending on how it's done. I always felt that they did it right on SG-1, and like Sky said, SG-1 did a clip show in S1, and so did SGA in S1. I had no idea this would be a clip show, but I was pleasantly surprised when I saw the first clip, and the rest of them. Many of those eps I haven't seen in a really long time, actually not since they aired because-- never mind. :p Anyway, after not seeing those episodes for so long, for me, personally, I enjoyed the ep because it was a great way to look back at some great Sanctuary moments over the past 3 years, and it really shows how far they've all come. :)

Maybe they thought about doing a clip show an account this is an extended season, and they wanted to give fans a look back on some good moments? :)

meredithchandler73
May 12th, 2011, 05:08 AM
I thought this episode was quite good. :)

I've either liked or dislike clip shows, depending on how it's done. I always felt that they did it right on SG-1, and like Sky said, SG-1 did a clip show in S1, and so did SGA in S1. I had no idea this would be a clip show, but I was pleasantly surprised when I saw the first clip, and the rest of them. Many of those eps I haven't seen in a really long time, actually not since they aired because-- never mind. :p Anyway, after not seeing those episodes for so long, for me, personally, I enjoyed the ep because it was a great way to look back at some great Sanctuary moments over the past 3 years, and it really shows how far they've all come. :)

Maybe they thought about doing a clip show an account this is an extended season, and they wanted to give fans a look back on some good moments? :)

Like Rocky, I don't especially like or dislike clip shows - it depends on how well it is done. And I also didn't know it was going to be a clip show until the first set of clips...and was pleasantly surprised. Well, what do you expect when you start with clips of Helen kicking butt?!?!? That made me deliriously happy. And the "Well done, Henry" clips were fun, too. I also enjoyed seeing Peter DeLuise as Ernie. (I loved him so much in his webisode appearance - I think his character was a bit more charming in the webisode, but then he was interacting with Ashley, not Will. So the dynamic would be different.)

I don't know how I feel about Abby. I don't hate the character, but I don't love her either. I love Sanctuary, in fact sci-fi in general, because of the strong female characters. Abby is just kind of...there. There's something about the Will-Abby relationship that feels so adolescent. I absolutely LOVED the last scene between Helen and Henry and wish they hadn't let Will and Abby intrude. I literally watched the episode again and after Helen confirms to Henry that Alfredo's doesn't deliver, he compliments her and they clink glasses, I stop the episode. I would like to erase from my mind that this very lovely moment that feels so maternal gets interrupted by Will and Abby - HALF-DRESSED, NO LESS! - to steal some of the awesome food Magnus procured especially for Henry.

kes
May 12th, 2011, 09:01 AM
This was def better then One Night. But it was another weak ep. A clip show *sigh* (I already new that). I'm glad S04 is only 13 eps.

Henry and Erika = Good
Abby and Will = Bad

Abby was a little softer in this one but still quite annoying.
Good to see Ernie. Hope PdL comes back.

Didnt like the music in some parts of the ep. It was too loud. Just...blah! Stop with the freaky voices, it wasnt a theme song, it was in the middle of the fraking ep.

jckfan55
May 12th, 2011, 09:04 AM
Yeah, there's a immaturity to Will these last few episodes like him and Abby at the end of this ep or his rant at Henry in Hangover, that I don't really think fits the character. Maybe it's a reaction to dying again, or it's just the influence of Abby, but it makes me miss the Will of the first 2 seasons and S3.0. Though to be fair I really liked him in Metamorphosis, esp his scenes with Helen and Kate.

Yes, there's being able to let your hair down and there's immaturity. Also, in the half dressed food raid, there's just a disrespect for Magnus there. How can we take him seriously challenging Magnus when she needs challenging when he acts like a teenager half the time? How can *Magnus* take him seriously?

NumberSix
May 13th, 2011, 03:28 PM
.............. I absolutely LOVED the last scene between Helen and Henry and wish they hadn't let Will and Abby intrude. I literally watched the episode again and after Helen confirms to Henry that Alfredo's doesn't deliver, he compliments her and they clink glasses, I stop the episode. I would like to erase from my mind that this very lovely moment that feels so maternal gets interrupted by Will and Abby - HALF-DRESSED, NO LESS! - to steal some of the awesome food Magnus procured especially for Henry.

I felt the same way, and forgot to mention in my other post that I really liked how Helen was there for Henry and did something very special for him after things didn't go well with Erica. Shows that although she can be very tough when she needs to be she's also a very caring person.

Feast of the Muse
May 13th, 2011, 10:16 PM
Well, this episode in on Syfy right now and I'm awake, so...

Question, for someone who has it recorded or something, when they pull in to pick up the lepidoptera, Henry gets Will's attention to say which dock it is. I swear he calls him Gooban. Is that it, or is he saying something else and my processor is just busted?

Also, I LOVE Helen busting the boys' butts over not having the abnomal as first priority. "You do realize that question has ceased to be rhetorical?" Gotta say, Magnus is kinda hot when she's angry... not that I'd risk making her mad just to see...

Skydiver
May 14th, 2011, 06:35 AM
I think, with Will...what if after all his near death, he's embraced 'carpe diem', seize the day

to the point that he's getting a bit self centered and 'me, me, me' take what I want and live before I die again?

what if this new immaturity is a response to the heavy stuff he's been through this season?

Mandysg1
May 14th, 2011, 07:17 AM
Yea the last scene with Helen and Henry was touching, you can see how she cares for him. The scene where Will and Abby come in...was just tacky and immature, not funny.

Feast of the Muse
May 14th, 2011, 08:06 AM
I think, with Will...what if after all his near death, he's embraced 'carpe diem', seize the day

to the point that he's getting a bit self centered and 'me, me, me' take what I want and live before I die again?

what if this new immaturity is a response to the heavy stuff he's been through this season?

You know, I've noticed he's swinging like a pendulum. I hope he finds his balance before someone locks him in the SHU. *whistles innocently*

siles
May 14th, 2011, 08:21 AM
to be fair, sg1 had a clip show in its first season (politics)

I do agree that will is getting comfy in his job, too comfy maybe? too at ease? too cocky? it's like he has the knowledge of the abbies but not the respect for them.

SG-1 had 22 episodes, and "Politics" introduced Kinsey

MelissaAdams
May 14th, 2011, 10:43 AM
Well, this episode in on Syfy right now and I'm awake, so...

Question, for someone who has it recorded or something, when they pull in to pick up the lepidoptera, Henry gets Will's attention to say which dock it is. I swear he calls him Gooban. Is that it, or is he saying something else and my processor is just busted?

As I understand what my captiion and ears are telling me I believe he actually says hey dude but it mixes together so fast it sounds almost like Gooban so I do understand how you heard that...I had SG1 and Sanctuary moments like that over the years, thank GOD for captioning I gotta say. LOL

Also to your other statement I totally agree, Helen takes care of 'her kids' as it were and she does know what goes on in her house even when they perhaps don't want her to ;) To me it's part of the mystery surrounding the character, a little hint as it was more pointed out on screen in season 1 then came subtley in season 2 and now there are definite moments we see it season 3.

I also agree to what others have said honestly that Will has a little immaturity to him. The scene at the end worked with them walking in only because of how Magnus aka Amanda played it...down but the look on her face said clearly, we will discuss this later. :D Boy would I love to be a fly on the wall for that conversation.

MidwifeOnBoard
May 14th, 2011, 11:24 AM
-I think if they were writing Will to be erratic after the dying to meet kali thing, #1 he would have been deliberately written that way the entire season (he hasn't been) and #2 Helen would have called him out on it far sooner.

- It doesn't matter that SG1 had a clip episode the first season, as Siles pointed out, it introduced an important new character and a key part of the SG story-- that they weren't actually operating in a vacuum. And, as much as I hate to say it, this was a poorly edited clip show. I didn't care for it. I hope we don't get any more of them. I prefer an actual story I can sink my teeth into.

SO looking forward to Monday. Looks like the show I know and love is coming back.

jckfan55
May 14th, 2011, 11:35 AM
You know, I've noticed he's swinging like a pendulum. I hope he finds his balance before someone locks him in the SHU. *whistles innocently*

It this is on purpose by the writers & RD's acting, then I hope they actually address it.

EvenstarSRV
May 14th, 2011, 03:53 PM
-I think if they were writing Will to be erratic after the dying to meet kali thing, #1 he would have been deliberately written that way the entire season (he hasn't been) and #2 Helen would have called him out on it far sooner.

- It doesn't matter that SG1 had a clip episode the first season, as Siles pointed out, it introduced an important new character and a key part of the SG story-- that they weren't actually operating in a vacuum. And, as much as I hate to say it, this was a poorly edited clip show. I didn't care for it. I hope we don't get any more of them. I prefer an actual story I can sink my teeth into.

SO looking forward to Monday. Looks like the show I know and love is coming back.

I think this episode did have some story to it though, we saw the progression of Henry and Erika's relationship as well as a progression of Henry's (and Erika's) journey of accepting/dealing with being a HAP. Granted this was mostly character-based stuff and not a significant overall plot or arc point like Kinsey was to SG-1, but it was story nonetheless IMHO.

I do agree with your point about Will, we didn't see this kind of immaturity from him after he died in Kali 3 so that doesn't seem to be a good reason for him to be acting this way now. I think I'll just chalk it up to Abby being a bad influence. Will at least has the excuse of living at the Sanctuary, she's an almost complete stranger and she's fine walking around half-dressed? :S


It this is on purpose by the writers & RD's acting, then I hope they actually address it.

Same here.

I kinda wonder if this episode and maybe One Night were a result of that Father Clark arc from S3.0 getting cut short. I think AM said in an interview that they'd planned it to be a 4 episode arc but the network passed on the last two eps, so they had to wrap it up in Vigilante. Maybe it left them with two slots in S3.5 to fill and the rush to do that resulted in the rather half-baked plots of 'date night gone wrong.'

Skydiver
May 14th, 2011, 06:08 PM
You know, I've noticed he's swinging like a pendulum. I hope he finds his balance before someone locks him in the SHU. *whistles innocently*
but he's already been locked in the shu, hasn't he?

as to plot arc, well it does show that abby has been pretty much fully read into the sanctuary...so much for secrets, she seems to know a lot

Julian
May 14th, 2011, 06:38 PM
The scene where Will and Abby come in...was just tacky and immature, not funny.
Ugh I know right!! Will had gone from being an overly observant forensic psychiatrist in S01 to a complete idiot and immature goofball by S03...

Professor_S
May 15th, 2011, 03:22 PM
I am increasingly disappointed in Sanctuary and it's making me sad... more and more, Kindler and company seem to be going for the cheap laugh before they worry about the integrity of the show.

Maybe this is a consequence of the 20-ep season, but there've been a lot of misses in Season 3, and to me, "Wingman" is one of them. Don't get me wrong, I love the quirky and fun as much as the next person! "Nubbins", "Hero", "Sleepers" - those were fun episodes! And I also *love* the tongue-in-cheek moments that the writers maintained through some of the darker episodes. But they were *moments*. When did Sanctuary become one bad gag after another?? Campy is fun, but where's the balance?

I know this probably seems like a harsh invective, and I think I'm probably feeling more frustrated because this ep came so soon after "One Night", but I want the Sanctuary of "FCaK", "Breach", "Pavor", and "Requiem" back!! At its best, this show can be perfectly brilliant - I hope we get to see more of its best soon. I feel like the show needs to go back to the identity it staked out in the webisodes, where it was designed to be a darker show but one that nevertheless had a sense of humour. To me, the best eps have been the ones to return to this tone.

I'd love to hear other thoughts on this! :) Point, counterpoint... I welcome it all! :)

Prof_S

JanSam
May 15th, 2011, 04:04 PM
...probably feeling more frustrated because this ep came so soon after "One Night", but I want the Sanctuary of "FCaK", "Breach", "Pavor", and "Requiem" back!! At its best, this show can be perfectly brilliant - I hope we get to see more of its best soon. I feel like the show needs to go back to the identity it staked out in the webisodes, where it was designed to be a darker show but one that nevertheless had a sense of humour. To me, the best eps have been the ones to return to this tone.


Here, here *applause* I wholeheartedly agree.

Feast of the Muse
May 15th, 2011, 04:11 PM
I think losing Ashley has a lot to do with the frivolity we see now. She helped keep it dark, but basically replacing her with Kate just isn't dark enough. Not saying Ash was evil (until the end) but she was more fierce than Kate when it came down to it, plus she had John for a father - so her presence carried more weight to begin with. Plus Ashley would have kicked Will's ass several times instead of just watching mom reprimand him. And she would have NO time for Abby.

slurredspeech
May 15th, 2011, 05:29 PM
To be perfectly frank, and I'm sorry if this rubs anyone the wrong way, but I think part of the problem with Will is that they've allowed RD to play and act like ... well, RD. Started writing RD instead of Will. His accents are alright and he seems like a perky fellow and that's all well and good, but Will was initially created to be something different. And, I don't know. It's hard to put a finger on it. I could well be just rationalizing the piss-poor quality of Will as of late.

I still hold out hope for the rest of the episodes this season. Cause so far, the quality has been sub par. Dramatically so, I'm sorry to say. Even the clips within this clip show showed... nothing, really. Just some kick-ass/funny moments from the past which I, as a regular viewer kinda appreciated, but there was no depth to them at all. Who are these characters? What makes them tick? What is important to them? You know? Meh.

And Abby seriously needs to go. Like, at the end of the first episode she appeared in. She is as grating as the grating thing, and, just, no. I can't believe Henry's girl went and *that thing* stayed. It baffles the mind.

majorsal
May 15th, 2011, 05:50 PM
To be perfectly frank, and I'm sorry if this rubs anyone the wrong way, but I think part of the problem with Will is that they've allowed RD to play and act like ... well, RD. Started writing RD instead of Will. His accents are alright and he seems like a perky fellow and that's all well and good, but Will was initially created to be something different. And, I don't know. It's hard to put a finger on it. I could well be just rationalizing the piss-poor quality of Will as of late.

i can't remember which ep or which season, but the ep where i saw will riding a motorcycle with, i think, declan, i felt that was more robin than will. or more, this is more robin-cool than will-more-serious. i also wish will still wore the glasses.


I still hold out hope for the rest of the episodes this season. Cause so far, the quality has been sub par. Dramatically so, I'm sorry to say. Even the clips within this clip show showed... nothing, really. Just some kick-ass/funny moments from the past which I, as a regular viewer kinda appreciated, but there was no depth to them at all. Who are these characters? What makes them tick? What is important to them? You know? Meh.

And Abby seriously needs to go. Like, at the end of the first episode she appeared in. She is as grating as the grating thing, and, just, no. I can't believe Henry's girl went and *that thing* stayed. It baffles the mind.

abby is, to me, too giddy and perky, to be an fbi agent. and her and will together are a bit nauseatingly bubbly. :p

on a side note: i would very much like to learn more about the sanctuary team. more in depth of *who* they are.

i'm thinking sanct with 13 is for the best.

Professor_S
May 15th, 2011, 07:03 PM
Here, here *applause* I wholeheartedly agree.

:)


I think losing Ashley has a lot to do with the frivolity we see now. She helped keep it dark, but basically replacing her with Kate just isn't dark enough. Not saying Ash was evil (until the end) but she was more fierce than Kate when it came down to it, plus she had John for a father - so her presence carried more weight to begin with. Plus Ashley would have kicked Will's ass several times instead of just watching mom reprimand him. And she would have NO time for Abby.

This is an interesting point! I never thought of this, but it seems pretty accurate. That's not to say that the show couldn't be dark without her, but I think you're quite right to say her character fits better with that tone than Kate's does. On a similar vein, I also feel that the Five lend greater gravitas to the show, and we haven't seen them in a while either. Looking forward to "Normandy" for that. And YES, Ashley would NOT have been able to tolerate Abby!! *There's* a face-off I would've loved to have seen. :P


To be perfectly frank, and I'm sorry if this rubs anyone the wrong way, but I think part of the problem with Will is that they've allowed RD to play and act like ... well, RD. Started writing RD instead of Will. His accents are alright and he seems like a perky fellow and that's all well and good, but Will was initially created to be something different. And, I don't know. It's hard to put a finger on it. I could well be just rationalizing the piss-poor quality of Will as of late.

Yeah, it's hard to draw the line between the two lately, isn't it. Will was such a complex character at the start, and instead of delving into the mystery, they've made him rather two-dimensional. Why haven't we learned any more of his back-story? Why haven't we gotten more of a glimpse into his transition from 'zero' to 'hero'? It was awfully quick, frankly... And, for a forensic psychologist/criminal profiler, he hasn't been used for his knowledge in those fields for a good long while now.


I still hold out hope for the rest of the episodes this season. Cause so far, the quality has been sub par. Dramatically so, I'm sorry to say. Even the clips within this clip show showed... nothing, really. Just some kick-ass/funny moments from the past which I, as a regular viewer kinda appreciated, but there was no depth to them at all. Who are these characters? What makes them tick? What is important to them? You know? Meh.

Yeah, I think you've hit the nail on the head here. I guess, as a viewer, I'm not as interested in simple serialized action anymore. It's fun, but there's so little depth to it, and it's very difficult to connect with it in any meaningful way. It just doesn't resonate as much. I think that's what disappointed me about "Metamorphosis" too - for a POV ep, it gave us little insight into the way *Will* was feeling - into his inner workings, so to speak.


i can't remember which ep or which season, but the ep where i saw will riding a motorcycle with, i think, declan, i felt that was more robin than will. or more, this is more robin-cool than will-more-serious. i also wish will still wore the glasses.

Haha! Me too! Somehow it gave him more personality. That sounds kinda silly now that I've written it, but "that just happens to be how I feel about it" :P Glad I'm not alone!


i'm thinking sanct with 13 is for the best.

Agreed. Seems the network thinks so too since S4 is to be a 13-ep season. That bodes well for the show, I think.

Feast of the Muse
May 15th, 2011, 07:19 PM
Yeah, it's hard to draw the line between the two lately, isn't it. Will was such a complex character at the start, and instead of delving into the mystery, they've made him rather two-dimensional. Why haven't we learned any more of his back-story? Why haven't we gotten more of a glimpse into his transition from 'zero' to 'hero'? It was awfully quick, frankly... And, for a forensic psychologist/criminal profiler, he hasn't been used for his knowledge in those fields for a good long while now.


Writing Will properly requires extra time and effort. I think they're just out of steam on him, and he's become flexible because of that. Maybe it's a budget issue. Could be they are saving up the dough for things like Normandy and aren't spending the money on that character background? Will's original character would need either a consultant or a grunt doing a LOT of research... I think they're just not willing to invest in it right now.

And after re-reading that, may I add, pardon me as I ramble...

Professor_S
May 15th, 2011, 07:44 PM
Writing Will properly requires extra time and effort. I think they're just out of steam on him, and he's become flexible because of that. Maybe it's a budget issue. Could be they are saving up the dough for things like Normandy and aren't spending the money on that character background? Will's original character would need either a consultant or a grunt doing a LOT of research... I think they're just not willing to invest in it right now.

And after re-reading that, may I add, pardon me as I ramble...

First - "ramble"? Are you kidding?? Did you *see* the length of my post?! :P :D

Second - yeah, that's a very good point. It would require a lot of leg work to write a more technical role for Will. And I guess you'd run the risk of becoming too technical/procedural with Will too.
Do you ever get the feeling Sanctuary is falling into the same trap SG1 did, sacrificing character for plot? This (i.e. the following) might be a bad example since this show is a love-it-or-hate-it kinda deal, but I really enjoyed BSG for how it handled this. It didn't bother me that it didn't connect the dots all the time because I got to know the people so well. I don't think Sanctuary should go as far as BSG did in this regard, but it seems to me there's a middle ground to be found between SG1 and Battlestar...

EvenstarSRV
May 15th, 2011, 10:16 PM
I think losing Ashley has a lot to do with the frivolity we see now. She helped keep it dark, but basically replacing her with Kate just isn't dark enough. Not saying Ash was evil (until the end) but she was more fierce than Kate when it came down to it, plus she had John for a father - so her presence carried more weight to begin with. Plus Ashley would have kicked Will's ass several times instead of just watching mom reprimand him. And she would have NO time for Abby.

Hmm, I actually saw the loss of Ashley as adding to the darkness of the show to a degree, and it was her death that led to the darkest Sanctuary episode to date IMO, Pavor Nocturnus. And it's been the references to her death that added an extra edge to things like Magnus's attitude in Next Tuesday or the Cabal lab they found in Trail of Blood.

IMHO, the frivolity in the last few episodes seems to mostly stem from the focus Will and Abby's rather bumbling relationship, rather than a lack of Ashley.


To be perfectly frank, and I'm sorry if this rubs anyone the wrong way, but I think part of the problem with Will is that they've allowed RD to play and act like ... well, RD. Started writing RD instead of Will. His accents are alright and he seems like a perky fellow and that's all well and good, but Will was initially created to be something different. And, I don't know. It's hard to put a finger on it. I could well be just rationalizing the piss-poor quality of Will as of late.

Yeah, I've gotten that impression as well. I think it makes sense for some aspects of the actor to come out in the character like hearing AT's laugh from Helen in Next Tuesday or Will accents in Haunted or Animus, but maybe they've taken it a bit far in RD/Will's case recently. I also don't think it helps that instead of writing to Will's strengths as a psychiatrist they seem to be playing up the goofier aspects of the character.

Steff
May 15th, 2011, 10:26 PM
To be perfectly frank, and I'm sorry if this rubs anyone the wrong way, but I think part of the problem with Will is that they've allowed RD to play and act like ... well, RD. Started writing RD instead of Will. His accents are alright and he seems like a perky fellow and that's all well and good, but Will was initially created to be something different. And, I don't know. It's hard to put a finger on it. I could well be just rationalizing the piss-poor quality of Will as of late.

I still hold out hope for the rest of the episodes this season. Cause so far, the quality has been sub par. Dramatically so, I'm sorry to say. Even the clips within this clip show showed... nothing, really. Just some kick-ass/funny moments from the past which I, as a regular viewer kinda appreciated, but there was no depth to them at all. Who are these characters? What makes them tick? What is important to them? You know? Meh.

And Abby seriously needs to go. Like, at the end of the first episode she appeared in. She is as grating as the grating thing, and, just, no. I can't believe Henry's girl went and *that thing* stayed. It baffles the mind.

After reading your post it hit me how right I think you are. Especially after watching some of the behind the scenes videos. Will/RD are becoming the same. Oh no.....

And yes.... Abby needs to be gone.

Feast of the Muse
May 15th, 2011, 10:50 PM
Hmm, I actually saw the loss of Ashley as adding to the darkness of the show to a degree, and it was her death that led to the darkest Sanctuary episode to date IMO, Pavor Nocturnus. And it's been the references to her death that added an extra edge to things like Magnus's attitude in Next Tuesday or the Cabal lab they found in Trail of Blood.

IMHO, the frivolity in the last few episodes seems to mostly stem from the focus Will and Abby's rather bumbling relationship, rather than a lack of Ashley.


Ah, I've only seen a few episodes of season 3 - the last few, actually. I'm tempted to buy the eps in iTunes now... I need to see that for sure. Netflix only has seasons 1 and 2 up, of course.

Professor_S
May 15th, 2011, 11:21 PM
Hmm, I actually saw the loss of Ashley as adding to the darkness of the show to a degree, and it was her death that led to the darkest Sanctuary episode to date IMO, Pavor Nocturnus. And it's been the references to her death that added an extra edge to things like Magnus's attitude in Next Tuesday or the Cabal lab they found in Trail of Blood.

IMHO, the frivolity in the last few episodes seems to mostly stem from the focus Will and Abby's rather bumbling relationship, rather than a lack of Ashley.

Forgive me for being terribly Canadian about this, but this argument seems true too. On the one hand, on a 'day-to-day' basis, Kate simply doesn't have the same edge to her presence as Ashley did; but on the other hand, as you rightly point out, Ashley's death was a dark (not to mention daring) decision [oh my... apologies for the alliteration. Dang! I did it again :mckay:]. And you're right - the references to her death have added intensity to various eps as well. So, in a sense, Ashley's absence both does and doesn't detract from the 'edge' of the show.

Skydiver
May 16th, 2011, 04:43 AM
i can see that, that robin is creeping into will

I wonder if it's an unconscious thing or if they are being 'advised' about the characters?

after all, not wanting to start a sg1 vs san cage match, but isn't will's changes in character close to Cameron? young male, living and enjoying and taking on a 'devil may care' attitude?

Julian
May 16th, 2011, 04:55 AM
I am increasingly disappointed in Sanctuary and it's making me sad... more and more, Kindler and company seem to be going for the cheap laugh before they worry about the integrity of the show.

Maybe this is a consequence of the 20-ep season, but there've been a lot of misses in Season 3, and to me, "Wingman" is one of them. Don't get me wrong, I love the quirky and fun as much as the next person! "Nubbins", "Hero", "Sleepers" - those were fun episodes! And I also *love* the tongue-in-cheek moments that the writers maintained through some of the darker episodes. But they were *moments*. When did Sanctuary become one bad gag after another?? Campy is fun, but where's the balance?

I know this probably seems like a harsh invective, and I think I'm probably feeling more frustrated because this ep came so soon after "One Night", but I want the Sanctuary of "FCaK", "Breach", "Pavor", and "Requiem" back!! At its best, this show can be perfectly brilliant - I hope we get to see more of its best soon. I feel like the show needs to go back to the identity it staked out in the webisodes, where it was designed to be a darker show but one that nevertheless had a sense of humour. To me, the best eps have been the ones to return to this tone.

I'd love to hear other thoughts on this! :) Point, counterpoint... I welcome it all! :)

Prof_S
No I completely agree... and I know these eps were designed to be cheaper but really cheaper doesn't mean they can't be dark or they can't be half decent. For example, if Will and Abby were written better and there were more dramatic, intense moments in One Night then that would've been a great episode (despite the cliche story).

Wingman was just... too much. I dunno how they could've saved it.

slurredspeech
May 16th, 2011, 07:03 AM
Yeah, it's hard to draw the line between the two lately, isn't it. Will was such a complex character at the start, and instead of delving into the mystery, they've made him rather two-dimensional. Why haven't we learned any more of his back-story? Why haven't we gotten more of a glimpse into his transition from 'zero' to 'hero'? It was awfully quick, frankly... And, for a forensic psychologist/criminal profiler, he hasn't been used for his knowledge in those fields for a good long while now.

*nods* Perhaps I wouldn't go as far as calling him complex, even at the beginning, since complexity requires depth and that is achieved in time, but certainly interesting and 'oh, I'm looking forward to finding out more about him and see him use his unique skills' type of character. However, as you say, they dumped that for some unfathomable reason around the time he lost the glasses. Perhaps that is the reason he can't spot vital details anymore? It's anyone's guess, because that was his cool thing, and they took it away. And with it the whole reasoning why he is there, working at the Sanctuary, in the first place.




Yeah, I think you've hit the nail on the head here. I guess, as a viewer, I'm not as interested in simple serialized action anymore. It's fun, but there's so little depth to it, and it's very difficult to connect with it in any meaningful way. It just doesn't resonate as much. I think that's what disappointed me about "Metamorphosis" too - for a POV ep, it gave us little insight into the way *Will* was feeling - into his inner workings, so to speak.


There have been more than a few insights into various characters -- the old troupe more and better done than the youngsters, which is why I enjoy them more, though Henry's gotten his share of depth to the character, as has Biggie -- I just meant that you'd never know it from this clip show. It was just a bunch of 5 second clips of kick-ass or one-liners thrown together that showed absolutely nothing about these people. Except that Helen packs a punch and Henry's adorable even if he's crap with guns. Oh, alright then. :|



Yeah, I've gotten that impression as well. I think it makes sense for some aspects of the actor to come out in the character like hearing AT's laugh from Helen in Next Tuesday or Will accents in Haunted or Animus, but maybe they've taken it a bit far in RD/Will's case recently. I also don't think it helps that instead of writing to Will's strengths as a psychiatrist they seem to be playing up the goofier aspects of the character.

Oh, absolutely. Actors, with their unique traits -- laugh, facial expressions, tone of voice and diction, gestures and so on -- portray the characters in their unique ways, and there's nothing wrong with that. As you say, though, they've taken it that step further with Will and it can't possibly work out. Even his accents, which are his strength, yes? Why not *use* them instead of simply showing them off. It would make sense to me if he used those skills in a case, or for the purpose of, say, infiltration or some such useful purpose. This way, however, it just seems like random showcasing, an in-joke brought to screen, and thus feels a tad forced. All of this IMHO, of course.

It may seem like I have no love for Will -- and that may well be true, *presently* -- but it's more that I'm sad to see the potential of early show Will taken and binned. Reduced to being juvenile and, what's worse, useless.Where is his unique perspective that once should have been the perspective of us mortal viewers? Where are his admirable skills? It's simply too bad there's none of that left in what has too long been a bland character with out-of-place playful attitude.

jckfan55
May 16th, 2011, 01:17 PM
Yeah, he's gotten sort of devil may care and jaded toward the Sanctuary work. I know he's been at it a couple of years, but really can he be that much of an expert on all the abnormals already?

And it really annoys me that Abby is yet another person who knows all about the Sanctuary. I wouldn't trust her not to let something slip. I thought this work was supposed to be kind of secret... :rolleyes:
It actually would have been more interesting for Will to have met her at a conference or something and not be able to tell her about his work. Actually, I'm thinking Sigrid from Iceland would be more interesting... ;)

I guess it would be ok for Will to loosen up sometimes, but there's a time and a place for it. Not in front of your boss or while trying to catch mothman.

EH-T
May 16th, 2011, 01:46 PM
I think this episode did have some story to it though, we saw the progression of Henry and Erika's relationship as well as a progression of Henry's (and Erika's) journey of accepting/dealing with being a HAP. Granted this was mostly character-based stuff and not a significant overall plot or arc point like Kinsey was to SG-1, but it was story nonetheless IMHO.

I do agree with your point about Will, we didn't see this kind of immaturity from him after he died in Kali 3 so that doesn't seem to be a good reason for him to be acting this way now. I think I'll just chalk it up to Abby being a bad influence. Will at least has the excuse of living at the Sanctuary, she's an almost complete stranger and she's fine walking around half-dressed? :S



Same here.

I kinda wonder if this episode and maybe One Night were a result of that Father Clark arc from S3.0 getting cut short. I think AM said in an interview that they'd planned it to be a 4 episode arc but the network passed on the last two eps, so they had to wrap it up in Vigilante. Maybe it left them with two slots in S3.5 to fill and the rush to do that resulted in the rather half-baked plots of 'date night gone wrong.'

Interesting thought.




Can i say that i'm really disliking the fact that by the time I see the episode i am way late for the discussion?


You've said it all but I will add my thoughts:


-I didn't mind it was a clip show as much as it was another date show and the continued involvement of Abby.

-if i hear one more reference to Alfredo's I shall scream

-I like Henry and Erica together, she is an intelligent woman and a sweet character, sorry that given the ending we are not likely to see her again (not anytime soon anyway)

-I didn't mind Abby in her first appearance. After ON and this ep, I see no difference between her and Clara. She has not shown the intelligence one would expect from someone with her job, she is the stereotypical damsel-in-distress even to the cliche twisting of the ankle. Losing my respect for Will based on his choice of women. If this is the best we can do with his romantic interests then let's lose and never explore that storyline again

-Will and Abby continue to be written as teenagers not mature adults. In addition to the horrible character moment of showing up half-dressed to raid food (remembering that this is someone else's house and Will's workplace) it ruined a beautiful moment between Henry and Helen

-where is the Will of previous seasons? Definitely seeing regression here.

-too many Will-heavy (but without substance) eps

-too many Helen-light episodes. She is the best thing about this show, let's focus more on that

-why are we seeing Abby instead of Kate? If you are going to introduce Kate instead of Ashley as a regular then let's go with that.

Really looking forward to the return of the show I love this week!

mjwalshe
May 17th, 2011, 02:14 PM
Forgive me for being terribly Canadian about this, but this argument seems true too. On the one hand, on a 'day-to-day' basis, Kate simply doesn't have the same edge to her presence as Ashley did; but on the other hand, as you rightly point out, Ashley's death was a dark (not to mention daring) decision [oh my... apologies for the alliteration. Dang! I did it again :mckay:]. And you're right - the references to her death have added intensity to various eps as well. So, in a sense, Ashley's absence both does and doesn't detract from the 'edge' of the show.

Kate fed a guy to an abnormal which is prity dark

EH-T
May 17th, 2011, 02:58 PM
I should just add that IMO it was OOC for Helen to be so amused with Will and Abby's behaviour at the end.

Professor_S
May 17th, 2011, 03:18 PM
I should just add that IMO it was OOC for Helen to be so amused with Will and Abby's behaviour at the end.

Seconded. (Or, at this point, not so much 'seconded' as an addition to the prevailing chorus!)

EH-T I should also second your frustration over having to arrive late to the party as far as eps go. I hate spoilers, so I daren't peak at what's been written in the thread for 316, but part of me is *itching* to! :P I'm also worried about DLs (a concern that has no doubt been discussed to death here already...) because of the gap between US and Can. air dates. :S But frankly, I'm just impatient, LOL!

jckfan55
May 18th, 2011, 07:02 AM
I should just add that IMO it was OOC for Helen to be so amused with Will and Abby's behaviour at the end.

I agree. I think she would have been annoyed. And really, wouldn't Will show better judgment? On the other hand, seems like hormones are his weakness. One of the last times he was so obnoxious was in Next Tuesday when he wanted to go to that conference. As Magnus said then, "this is about your libido."

And in terms of the flow of the episode it was so wrong. They're in the middle of this nice moment with Magnus & Henry. Why even bring Will & the dopey girlfriend back into it at that point? :(

EH-T
May 18th, 2011, 09:24 AM
Seconded. (Or, at this point, not so much 'seconded' as an addition to the prevailing chorus!)

EH-T I should also second your frustration over having to arrive late to the party as far as eps go. I hate spoilers, so I daren't peak at what's been written in the thread for 316, but part of me is *itching* to! :P I'm also worried about DLs (a concern that has no doubt been discussed to death here already...) because of the gap between US and Can. air dates. :S But frankly, I'm just impatient, LOL!

Yes, the Space channel has been very supportive of Sanctuary and has put up with Syfy repeatedly changing its mind on the air date (Sanctuary was originally to be on Fridays then when Syfy was going to move it to Tuesdays they were too, then Syfy decided to leave it on Fridays so Space followed suit). I'm sure it is hurting their ratings because people can view it (legally or illegally) by other means. However, they have other shows scheduled and can't continually move it around based on Syfy's decisions. I think that if it remains on Syfy on Mondays and the ratings have suffered here because of the delay that Space will move it as well for season 4.



I agree. I think she would have been annoyed. And really, wouldn't Will show better judgment? On the other hand, seems like hormones are his weakness. One of the last times he was so obnoxious was in Next Tuesday when he wanted to go to that conference. As Magnus said then, "this is about your libido."

And in terms of the flow of the episode it was so wrong. They're in the middle of this nice moment with Magnus & Henry. Why even bring Will & the dopey girlfriend back into it at that point? :(

Will is supposed to respect Magnus and therefore should have shown better judgment. You are probably right about his hormones but that's one thing I have a problem with, he's 30something not 16.

And yes, bad flow. I love the fact that Sanctuary has a sense of humour but what I love about it is that usually it is a very smart wit. This was appealing to the the kind of humour 14 year old boys would find funny.

majorsal
May 18th, 2011, 04:02 PM
I should just add that IMO it was OOC for Helen to be so amused with Will and Abby's behaviour at the end.

i agree.

i'd have liked her to say something to will, and when he reached for the plate of whatevers he ended up grabbing, how about slapping his hand away. that food was for helen and 'henry'.

helen: will, abby? get some clothes on, and you too can have some of this delicious food. of course by going to get it yourself, dears. ;)

dosed150
May 21st, 2011, 08:33 PM
i dont get why erica couldnt like get a flat in the city or something, she didnt want to live in an institution again, fair enough and wanted to see more of the real world, ok so its hardly london but its a normalish city and she'd be near henry

Morigane50
May 22nd, 2011, 01:15 PM
When I watched this episode, I thought : Okay , the writers have lost the script just before starting to shoot. The scenario is such non interesting and I don't like when they fill the blanks with flashbacks of previous episodes, it is for me the solution of simplicity . That's a pity , because it could have been a funny and light episode showing Will and Henry trying hardly to have a sort of "normal social life" by dating their respective girlfriends, which appears to be impossible when you work at the Sanctuary.
but the story was really not interesting to me , and I found that using again this Famous restaurant Alfredo was getting old . :) I cannot believe that in such a big city where they live, there is only one very famous and so good restaurant !

Skydiver
May 22nd, 2011, 05:05 PM
teh transcript is done and uploaded

http://www.jackfic.net/emeraldcity/transcriptslist.html

Huaracocha
June 3rd, 2011, 06:46 PM
Regarding Helen being OOC by being 'too nice' about Will & Abby's cheeky food theft.. I think we need to take into account that last Alfonso date night they were kidnapped and she was nearly killed and on this occassion Helen sent them sewer crawling instead. So maybe she felt they deserved a little taste of the good stuff and decided to let the bad manners lecture go until the morning!

Skydiver
June 3rd, 2011, 07:18 PM
Helen probably had another serving tucked away on the sideboard so she and Henry had plenty.

suse
June 3rd, 2011, 08:19 PM
I hope so. *I'd* have been pretty pissed if people waltzed in and stole food off my table.

Skydiver
June 4th, 2011, 01:21 PM
In my version :)

helen got food for six, possibly eight. and meant to have it as a celebratory dinner had Erika accepted. but since she refused, Helen decided to let Henry lick his wounds in private and have a consolatory dinner...and vaguely wondered where the heck will and abby were but didn't worry about it.

then those two crashed the party and took the food...but Helen had the containers in the sideboard and just brought out more as Henry planned how to get even with Will, something possibly consisting of brief bits of pain and humiliation ;)

Steff
June 4th, 2011, 02:00 PM
In my version :)

helen got food for six, possibly eight. and meant to have it as a celebratory dinner had Erika accepted. but since she refused, Helen decided to let Henry lick his wounds in private and have a consolatory dinner...and vaguely wondered where the heck will and abby were but didn't worry about it.

then those two crashed the party and took the food...but Helen had the containers in the sideboard and just brought out more as Henry planned how to get even with Will, something possibly consisting of brief bits of pain and humiliation ;)

This is now my lovely canon of the evening. Thanks Sky. :D

Skydiver
June 4th, 2011, 05:32 PM
I think to add to that, she ordered the large meal to appease Alfredo, likely generously overtipping him as an apology.

Lahela
June 11th, 2011, 12:14 PM
Wow. Sad, sad wow. Finally had time to catch up on the last few eps and this one has just served to confirm that the Sanctuary PTB have utterly lost their way. They finally get a 20 ep season and they waste it it on filler flashback garbage like this? Seriously? A clip show. I am so very disappointed. :(

Matt G
June 28th, 2011, 03:05 PM
1. Will's the guy I can relate to the most but come on mate...your best friend (that we know of) is planning to propose on a table that you double booked. Even I know that your next line should be "Abby, we're going elsewhere".

2. Bit of a waste of an ep though - we've already done "date night goes wrong".

3. Clips were OK.

4. Found Helen's dinner a bit of a surprise but was operating on the assumption that will and Abby had also been invited.

Meh!

Huaracocha
June 29th, 2011, 05:07 PM
Wow. Sad, sad wow. Finally had time to catch up on the last few eps and this one has just served to confirm that the Sanctuary PTB have utterly lost their way. They finally get a 20 ep season and they waste it it on filler flashback garbage like this? Seriously? A clip show. I am so very disappointed. :(

I'm with you, flashback clip episodes always dismay and disappoint me too. Still, practically every show does them so I can only conclude that some people like them. Just have to swallow it and look forward to the other types of episode that suit your own personal taste and perhaps disappoint the clip show fans ;)