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GateWorld
April 18th, 2011, 07:38 AM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/sanctuary/s3/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/hangover-160x120.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">SANCTUARY SEASON THREE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/sanctuary/s3/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">HANGOVER</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 312</FONT>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0;">Magnus returns home from an overnight trip to find the Sanctuary in a state of confounding chaos: Battle debris everywhere, no one in sight, and a scheduled UN Security Team inspection just hours away. <I>(SPACE)</I></DIV>
<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/sanctuary/s3/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Skydiver
April 22nd, 2011, 07:55 PM
so, Hangover

it was fun. Lots of LOL moments and good lines.

it was a bottle episode, not many effects, but more character stuff. a nice break from the 'world altering doom and gloom' of last week.

and ick for the 'psychosis inducing cockroach from hell' :)

DragonGate
April 22nd, 2011, 08:06 PM
My favorite type of sci-fi episode, right here.

Particularly liked Bigfoot's tactic "knock everybody out now and figure it out later."

Everybody still being ticked at each other was a nice touch, characters tend to forgive this kind of goings-on way too fast in a lot of sci-fi. Maybe still kind of quick, but at least people with some hard feelings are shown.

Amazed when they tried to wool-pull Dr. Lee, but at least she was smart enough to not fall for it. I was like "They are not going to cover up the whole thing, are they?"

jckfan55
April 22nd, 2011, 08:35 PM
I enjoyed this one. Something of a mystery, a dangerous abnormal and the Sanctuary gang. Nice to have a "regular" episode.
I liked how Magnus had to play referee ;) and figure stuff out.
and the somewhat offhand remark at the end about having dealt with this kind of situation before ( the UN official) was pure Magnus.

EvenstarSRV
April 22nd, 2011, 09:12 PM
This was quite fun, a very nice break from the Hollow Earth storyline. I really liked that Will, Henry and the others still had some hard feelings even after they knew what happened, it was a nice counterpoint to the friendly interaction they usually have. And Helen as the 'mom' getting the kids in line was great.

The psychosis-inducing bug worked well as a reason for everyone going crazy, though I felt like it took Helen and others a bit to long to realize the mode of transmission. I was also a bit dubious of them trying to cover up the whole thing with the UN inspector, so I was glad to see her cotton on to them and force them to tell the truth.

All-in-all a nice standalone. As much as enjoyed the longer arc in the first part of S3 I've missed these kinds of episodes.



I enjoyed this one. Something of a mystery, a dangerous abnormal and the Sanctuary gang. Nice to have a "regular" episode.
I liked how Magnus had to play referee ;) and figure stuff out.
and the somewhat offhand remark at the end about having dealt with this kind of situation before ( the UN official) was pure Magnus.

That was a great bit at the end. I also think the UN stuff may tie in with the season finale when I believe Helen goes up against the UN to an extent about some kind of District 9 containment they've created for some abnormals.

Feast of the Muse
April 22nd, 2011, 09:34 PM
My favorite type of sci-fi episode, right here.

Particularly liked Bigfoot's tactic "knock everybody out now and figure it out later."


Well said, and I am keeping that plan under my hat. Just in case.

At one point, Biggie says: I'm not getting in that elevator. This building is possessed, again!
The building was possessed before?? whiskey foxtrot tango...

I told Will to shut up several times tonight. *grin*

What are they doing different with the Big Guy? He didn't look right to me, and I felt like I could hear way too much gruffy John. *sigh* Hearing the Big Guy talk always makes me miss John a little bit anyway.

Totally loved seeing a different range of expressions and emotions from Helen. Love it when she puts her foot down and makes the pups behave.

DragonGate
April 22nd, 2011, 09:55 PM
At one point, Biggie says: I'm not getting in that elevator. This building is possessed, again!
The building was possessed before?? whiskey foxtrot tango...


"Haunted" Season 2, episode 11.

EvenstarSRV
April 22nd, 2011, 09:57 PM
Well said, and I am keeping that plan under my hat. Just in case.

At one point, Biggie says: I'm not getting in that elevator. This building is possessed, again!
The building was possessed before?? whiskey foxtrot tango...


In S2's Haunted, Biggie got trapped in the elevator with Kate when the electro-parasite in Druitt took over the Sanctuary.

I noticed on the rewatch that Helen says the Sanctuary has been running for 149 years, so I guess Gregory founded it when Helen was only 10 years old.

Steff
April 22nd, 2011, 10:00 PM
I'm I the first to mention Helen's short skirt? Amazing legs. :D :D

Rocky89
April 22nd, 2011, 10:05 PM
Great episode. :D It was funny, good action scenes, and we saw some new sides to them we've never really see before. :) I loved the comic tone of the episode, and the little music that played when Helen was looking at her team. :p I liked how each character was able to tell part of the story, and then it all came together at the end. :)

The start kinda reminded me of Pavor, when Helen wakes up to the Sanctuary in a big mess. And I loved how the little bug was the thing making them all turn bad, and Biggies reaction to the little thing. :p I loved the angry mama Magnus scene, they know full well to obey her. :D I loved how Helen was trying to be sneaky with the agent at the end, but I think the agent got a little more respect for Helen. :)

Oh, and I loved hearing Helen say "bloody hell" not once but twice. :p

Feast of the Muse
April 22nd, 2011, 10:16 PM
I'm I the first to mention Helen's short skirt? Amazing legs. :D :D

*blushes* Uh, no, I didn't notice that skirt at the end... um, so, how does she run around in those heels? Makes my feet hurt just thinking about it.

I think I enjoy a roaring Helen just a bit too much. *blushes more*

KayLyne
April 22nd, 2011, 10:35 PM
a fairly enjoyable episode, especially after all of the Hollow Earth stuff recently. It was a nice digression back to what the Sanctuary is about.

I was hoping to see Magnus going psycho at one point towards the end - in a bit of a Requiem kind of way. But Mama Magnus & the bickering kids were so fun to watch.

I was a bit annoyed with Will (but that's what we were supposed to be, right?), but why do they always have him as the whiny pre-teen?

Biggie hanging upside down in the elevator? LMAO I wonder how long Chris had to be suspended like that. It was quite ingenious for him to swing himself & hit the alarm repeatedly. I also thought it was cute that he used the excuse of his big, hairy hands to not have to do paperwork - yet he gave up crocheting (or was it needlepoint?)

"Skippy" reminded me of the Nubbins, and in having the abnormal go from host to host, I couldn't help but think of SG-1's "Legacy".

In all, a nice return to the true Sanctuary, yet I did miss John & Tesla.

Oh, and can't forget the Magnus Gun Bum! Loved it, as usual.

dee
April 22nd, 2011, 10:39 PM
He fixed his hair up a little nicer and cleaned up a little bit. Just a little manscaping here and there. hhmmm, do we see a girl in his future?

dee
April 22nd, 2011, 10:43 PM
a fairly enjoyable episode, especially after all of the Hollow Earth stuff recently. It was a nice digression back to what the Sanctuary is about.

I was hoping to see Magnus going psycho at one point towards the end - in a bit of a Requiem kind of way. But Mama Magnus & the bickering kids were so fun to watch.

I was a bit annoyed with Will (but that's what we were supposed to be, right?), but why do they always have him as the whiny pre-teen?

Biggie hanging upside down in the elevator? LMAO I wonder how long Chris had to be suspended like that. It was quite ingenious for him to swing himself & hit the alarm repeatedly. I also thought it was cute that he used the excuse of his big, hairy hands to not have to do paperwork - yet he gave up crocheting (or was it needlepoint?)

"Skippy" reminded me of the Nubbins, and in having the abnormal go from host to host, I couldn't help but think of SG-1's "Legacy".

In all, a nice return to the true Sanctuary, yet I did miss John & Tesla.

Oh, and can't forget the Magnus Gun Bum! Loved it, as usual.
Speaking of the devil, what happened to our favorite ex-vamp with the Alucard smile?

mandogater
April 22nd, 2011, 10:52 PM
A liked the episode. Magnus having to play the mama bear and get the kids to behave was funny. I forget who all said it but it was great to see the gang still be a little mad at each other after waking up.

AresLover452
April 23rd, 2011, 01:58 AM
I loved all of the Biggie moments! i am even moreof CH fangirl than I was before!

Love him saying these lines:

Biggie: The Trash compactor tried to eat me!

Biggie: I'm not getting in that elevator. This building is possessed.... again!

Biggie: My hands are bog and hairy. It's the reson I gave of needlepoint. I have dusting to do.


O_O!! OMG!! hilarious!!

and Yes Steff Helen's short skirt ZOMG!! just awesome!

All in all I totally loved this eppy!

RealmOfX
April 23rd, 2011, 03:24 AM
I loved all of the Biggie moments! i am even moreof CH fangirl than I was before!

Love him saying these lines:

Biggie: The Trash compactor tried to eat me!

Biggie: I'm not getting in that elevator. This building is possessed.... again!

Biggie: My hands are bog and hairy. It's the reson I gave of needlepoint. I have dusting to do.


O_O!! OMG!! hilarious!!

and Yes Steff Helen's short skirt ZOMG!! just awesome!

All in all I totally loved this eppy!

another Biggie moment :
Magnus : Cover me!
Biggie : Woooo oooooh!

ROFL I'm going to have to watch this one again Biggie was cracking me up all through it.

kes
April 23rd, 2011, 04:47 AM
another Biggie moment :
Magnus : Cover me!
Biggie : Woooo oooooh!

ROFL I'm going to have to watch this one again Biggie was cracking me up all through it.

Oh man I'm still laughing. Biggie was ace in this ep. Really funny.
Good loose eps like this works. You get an arc thru the season and maybe 3 or 4 eps (in 20, 2 or 3 in 13) like this and it works.

KayLyne
April 23rd, 2011, 05:34 AM
Another funny part I just remembered - when they were all waving at Magnus when she was leaving for the conference. Biggie's wave was so cute!

Skydiver
April 23rd, 2011, 05:54 AM
Biggie and the trash compactor. Star wars homage?

Chewie and company in the trash compactor on the death star.

Chelle DB
April 23rd, 2011, 06:28 AM
Well I gotta say that must have been the comic relief of the season...too many giggles for this weary head. But that's supposed to be good right? ;)
Loved Magnus' outburst...even grumpy she's not as intimidating as some...intimidation isn't her niche. Poor Henry...I felt for him the most. Didn't like the whole try to lie to the UN rep and was glad that she caught on and had the truth revealed to her even though she ended up slightly red faced about it. Nice character btw. I liked her.
Loved Will & Henry going at each other...brotherly love...I'm so used to it that it was like watching a home video. :D
I'd love to see more eps like this...more at home and trouble with the kids eps. I enjoyed it. :D

Mandysg1
April 23rd, 2011, 07:46 AM
I too enjoyed this episode :D Skippy reminded me of a Furby from Hell :P It must have been hard for Amanda to keep a straight face during this one. I do think Biggie stole the show, his way of covering Helen had me lol :P

I watched InnerSpace after and Robin and Damian talked about how they were able to go crazy and just throw and destroy whatever they wanted to filming this one...and they had so much fun doing it :D

All in all a nice change in pace and a good laugh and mystery :D

Rocky89
April 23rd, 2011, 07:56 AM
Oh man I'm still laughing. Biggie was ace in this ep. Really funny.
Good loose eps like this works. You get an arc thru the season and maybe 3 or 4 eps (in 20, 2 or 3 in 13) like this and it works.

I'm glad Biggie had a lot to do in this one, he really shined, and Chris gave him so comic momets. :) It's stand alone/comic relief episodes like this that we need more of, but not too often. :)


Well I gotta say that must have been the comic relief of the season...too many giggles for this weary head. But that's supposed to be good right? ;)
Loved Magnus' outburst...even grumpy she's not as intimidating as some...intimidation isn't her niche. Poor Henry...I felt for him the most. Didn't like the whole try to lie to the UN rep and was glad that she caught on and had the truth revealed to her even though she ended up slightly red faced about it. Nice character btw. I liked her.
Loved Will & Henry going at each other...brotherly love...I'm so used to it that it was like watching a home video. :D
I'd love to see more eps like this...more at home and trouble with the kids eps. I enjoyed it. :D

This is what the show needed after months of the Hollow Earth storyline, kinda like Bank Job after months of the Kali storyline. :) I was a little surprised Helen would try to pull a fast one of the UN rep, but it was still a good act by her, Will and Kate. :p Mama Magnus coming in between Will and Henry was classic. :D

NumberSix
April 23rd, 2011, 08:51 AM
Speaking of the devil, what happened to our favorite ex-vamp with the Alucard smile?

Even a brief reference would have been nice, after seeing him in all those eps leading up to the Hollow Earth trip. They didn't say how long it's been since they returned to the surface either, (unless I missed it).

I like it when they connect many episodes together and do a longer storyline like the hollow earth arc, but it was nice to have a lighter episode like this one. I liked how you could tell Magnus was nervous about leaving the gang in charge of getting everything ready and the looks on everyone's faces when she turns and walks out. Biggie not wanting to get in the elevator was funny. I"m also glad they weren't able to fool Dr. Lee and had to fess up about what really went on.


Skydiver: Biggie and the trash compactor. Star wars homage?

Chewie and company in the trash compactor on the death star.

I didn't think of that before. That makes it all the more funny! :D

jasminaGo
April 23rd, 2011, 10:49 AM
I'm too tired right now to write up something more coherent, so

Helen = HOT!
Biggie = Funny
Henry = Cute
Will & Kate... were there
Fav scene - The team walking down the hallway with Helen in front

JanSam
April 23rd, 2011, 12:32 PM
Great job by whole cast and crew! I enjoyed the episode and loved all the LOL moments. So glad they didn't have Lillian buy the cover up; I would have been disappointed if she bought into that story. Will's comment to Helen at the end makes you wonder if she planned on Lillian not buying the first story and planned on telling the truth in the end. Very enjoyable episode!!!

Kilgharrah
April 23rd, 2011, 12:36 PM
I liked that episode. It was a type that I missed.

There were some problems though.
1-I figured it all out at the beginning. It was only where the others are that was not known.
2-I only got interested again when I knew that the UN hottie was already in the Sanctuary.
3-Is it just me or have u noticed that the Big guy's face looks funny this episode????

One thing that I disapprove of, was what Helen did. She actually lied to the UN representative to save her Sanctuary!!!!!
And when it didn't work, she blackmailed her????
That's not the Magnus I know. Who is that person???
First she kills Adam(I know he's guilty, but she shouldn't have killed him. She's a murderer now) and then she blackmails that woman just to save the sanctuary!!!!!!!
I know she's desperate to save the Sanctuary, but still. She could have done it some other way.

Skydiver
April 23rd, 2011, 12:37 PM
at the end i was half expecting, ,after they confessed 'this is what really happened' for her go to...'right, blackouts huh?'

as in the truth is too unbelievable so i'll cling to the see through story

blazingfire
April 23rd, 2011, 01:13 PM
I seriously couldn't figure why all of them except for Biggie were disgusted by it. The creature wasn't that ugly to me, just looked like a whitish slug or something like that.

Skydiver
April 23rd, 2011, 01:30 PM
it looked like a psychosis inducing cock roach

i like a term a friend of mine coined.....when biggie did the sleepy gas, bigguyver

will was a little spoiled bratish at times, but it just kinda fit in with the WWF Wednesday at the Sanctuary

suse
April 23rd, 2011, 02:00 PM
I liked that episode. It was a type that I missed.

One thing that I disapprove of, was what Helen did. She actually lied to the UN representative to save her Sanctuary!!!!!
And when it didn't work, she blackmailed her????
That's not the Magnus I know. Who is that person???
First she kills Adam(I know he's guilty, but she shouldn't have killed him. She's a murderer now) and then she blackmails that woman just to save the sanctuary!!!!!!!
I know she's desperate to save the Sanctuary, but still. She could have done it some other way.

When did Helen kill Adam?

Skydiver
April 23rd, 2011, 02:05 PM
she's shot him several times...almost as many as druitt, but he was alive the last time she saw him...druitt actually was the last person to see him

Cekay
April 23rd, 2011, 02:13 PM
One thing that I disapprove of, was what Helen did. She actually lied to the UN representative to save her Sanctuary!!!!!
And when it didn't work, she blackmailed her????
That's not the Magnus I know. Who is that person???

+1 for that statement.
I didn't like what Helen tried to pull, she should have known that it wouldn't work. To me that seemed way below her...

Another thing that seemed OOC was Will attacking Henry when they were back to normal, like he assumed Henry was trying to hurt him of it own free will like they hadn't been friends for like 3 years. Will is smart he should have realised Henry wasn't in control of himself.

Apart from those scenes I loved the episode, it was funny and I loved Henry's reaction when he realised he shot Will. :D

JanSam
April 23rd, 2011, 02:24 PM
I liked that episode. It was a type that I missed.

There were some problems though.
1-I figured it all out at the beginning. It was only where the others are that was not known.
2-I only got interested again when I knew that the UN hottie was already in the Sanctuary.
3-Is it just me or have u noticed that the Big guy's face looks funny this episode????

1. I don't think it was their intention to make the main focus to be us figuring it all out; but to amuse us as the Sanctuary team figured it out.
2. How is this a problem...I'm missing what you are saying, I think.


One thing that I disapprove of, was what Helen did. She actually lied to the UN representative to save her Sanctuary!!!!!
And when it didn't work, she blackmailed her????
That's not the Magnus I know. Who is that person???
First she kills Adam(I know he's guilty, but she shouldn't have killed him. She's a murderer now) and then she blackmails that woman just to save the sanctuary!!!!!!!
I know she's desperate to save the Sanctuary, but still. She could have done it some other way.

I can't say I approved of it (if only that part was her original plan) but I do think we are giving some insight of why she would:
Transcript from Edward..
HELEN
Will, I wasn't entirely comfortable with you making it sound as if The Sanctuary were an arm of law enforcement.

WILL
Well, I had to push her to get at what she was hiding.

HELEN
The unravelling of who killed this man and why may well yield a treasure trove of information about this abnormality. But make no mistake, I will not help compound an injustice.

WILL
So, what are you saying? That we withhold evidence from the authorities?

HELEN
If it's in service of preserving an extraordinary life like Edward's or the mother who tried to protect those sons? You'd better know that I would.


So yes, I think she would lie if she felt the Sanctuary's mission was threatened and the lie would not endanger anyone.
Helen basically put Lillian in her position so apparently Lillian must feel the lie or omission of the incident wasn't harmful for anyone. She still had the rest of the "tour" to decide if that was correct.

About the killing Adam....I've seen several including Helen say this so help me understand. Granted she shot him but the wound did not seem life threatening and she told him not to move; she didn't seem eager to shoot again. Even Will made a comment in For King and Country about Adam's death...
Will: No, no, come on, suicide? You've already played that card.
Adam: True, true. A good magician never performs the same trick twice--

(thanks Sky for doing the FKAC transcripts :D)

Adam is the one who stepped off the cliff; so how did "Helen" kill him? Did I miss something?

Feast of the Muse
April 23rd, 2011, 02:38 PM
I liked that episode. It was a type that I missed.

There were some problems though.
1-I figured it all out at the beginning. It was only where the others are that was not known.
2-I only got interested again when I knew that the UN hottie was already in the Sanctuary.
3-Is it just me or have u noticed that the Big guy's face looks funny this episode????

One thing that I disapprove of, was what Helen did. She actually lied to the UN representative to save her Sanctuary!!!!!
And when it didn't work, she blackmailed her????
That's not the Magnus I know. Who is that person???
First she kills Adam(I know he's guilty, but she shouldn't have killed him. She's a murderer now) and then she blackmails that woman just to save the sanctuary!!!!!!!
I know she's desperate to save the Sanctuary, but still. She could have done it some other way.

Yes, I think they must have used something different with the prosthetics on Biggie. It was more than just a clean-up, it moved differently. Anyway.

As for the blackout story, I think they would have gotten away with it (until she got home anyway) if the characters weren't such horrible actors! Helen poured it on a little thick, followed by the others suddenly showing up all at once with everything she would have asked for. I think Helen was giving her the choice, really, to accept the blackout thing or not. She really really wanted her to accept the blackout thing, though. :P

As for the blackmailing, no. I didn't read that as blackmail as much as "look, we all fell victim to it, even you." Point made and well. Dr. Hottie didn't take it that way either. She ceded the point and offered her first name and her hand. I'd say that whole exchange turned out much better than it started.

RealmOfX
April 23rd, 2011, 02:51 PM
I think a few of you have a really naive view of Helen and what she needs to do to run the Sanctuary network. Jan has pointed a few things out and I agree with her, Helen is an extremely complex character and I think a few people are underselling just how complex both she and her job are.

As for those complaining about Helen trying to fool the UN rep, did you ever think that she may have been seeing just what the UN rep was made of first? There was a lot more going on in those scenes than the superficial "oh Helen lied" aspect that some of you are complaining about.

majorsal
April 23rd, 2011, 03:04 PM
fun ep! :p :D

LOTS of good moments and lines!

for some reason, i just loved seeing/hearing helen's moan of doom, when she realized the UN woman was coming at 11am, which was hours ago. :p AND, then she says to everyone to not panic, and will calmly states all the reasons why it IS a good time to panic. :p

i'll echo what others have said about liking the UN woman figuring it out (really, as soon as she saw the others *who prob blew it with their over attentiveness and bad acting* :p). it makes the position of the UN seem more realistic, when you know they're not such push-overs and actually smart. :p

just so many cute moments between everyone. :p

i didn't find will whiney baby, b/c his friends kept trying to kill him! :p

i think, when everyone woke up, they were 'still' suffering from something. okay, a hangover! :p, which explains will's super anger of wanting to beat the crappo out of henry. :p

it was nice to be back at the sanctuary. :)


~on an aside: has anymore made some smiley faces for the sanct team? i've got two helen smileys, but the others would be nice~

Feast of the Muse
April 23rd, 2011, 03:05 PM
I think a few of you have a really naive view of Helen and what she needs to do to run the Sanctuary network. Jan has pointed a few things out and I agree with her, Helen is an extremely complex character and I think a few people are underselling just how complex both she and her job are.

As for those complaining about Helen trying to fool the UN rep, did you ever think that she may have been seeing just what the UN rep was made of first? There was a lot more going on in those scenes than the superficial "oh Helen lied" aspect that some of you are complaining about.

Exactly. Helen has tons of integrity, and plenty of reason to test others on theirs. If you can immediately jump over and believe she's lied like a 6 year old, you're missing something huge about her. I'm not accusing anyone of anything, just pointing that out - it's rather important to understanding the whole show. You can't enjoy the complexity and subtlety if you're just judging by some surface actions.

EH-T
April 23rd, 2011, 03:40 PM
Really enjoyed this episode. Lots of fun, some great lines from the big guy and Henry, a bit of a mystery to solve.

Was it just me or did Helen seem a little more jokey than usual?

I also liked the fact the the UN rep did not fall for the story she was told. Wouldn't mind seeing this character again.

Loved Bigfoot hanging upside down in the elevator and how he kept pressing the button even after they found him.

EvenstarSRV
April 23rd, 2011, 08:02 PM
Speaking of the devil, what happened to our favorite ex-vamp with the Alucard smile?

Yeah, there really should have had some line in the beginning explaining where Tesla went.


Biggie and the trash compactor. Star wars homage?

Chewie and company in the trash compactor on the death star.

Heh, I didn't make that connection but I wouldn't be surprised. I think Thorpe likes those allusions, since he also had Kate call Biggie 'wookie' in Haunted.



One thing that I disapprove of, was what Helen did. She actually lied to the UN representative to save her Sanctuary!!!!!
And when it didn't work, she blackmailed her????
That's not the Magnus I know. Who is that person???
First she kills Adam(I know he's guilty, but she shouldn't have killed him. She's a murderer now) and then she blackmails that woman just to save the sanctuary!!!!!!!
I know she's desperate to save the Sanctuary, but still. She could have done it some other way.

Well, I think it's worth keeping in mind that Helen has been shown to willingly lie to authorities or coerce people before. Edward was one example, and also in King and Country she lied to the King's rep and then agreed with James and the others in telling the King to 'go to hell'. She also lied to the rest of the Sanctuary network regarding Big Bertha.

And although she didn't kill Worth, I'd wager that over the past century Helen has killed number of enemies, especially during world wars, not to mention killing various dangerous abnormals. While she's far from a cold-blooded killer, I think she's also quite capable of taking someone's life if justified.

kes
April 24th, 2011, 02:07 AM
Biggie and the trash compactor. Star wars homage?

Chewie and company in the trash compactor on the death star.

1st thing that came to mind.

Kilgharrah
April 24th, 2011, 02:45 AM
Yes, I think they must have used something different with the prosthetics on Biggie. It was more than just a clean-up, it moved differently. Anyway.
lol. That's the funniest thing I've heard all day.

As for the blackmailing, no. I didn't read that as blackmail as much as "look, we all fell victim to it, even you." Point made and well. Dr. Hottie didn't take it that way either. She ceded the point and offered her first name and her hand. I'd say that whole exchange turned out much better than it started.
When Dr. Hottie first watched the video, Helen said something like, 'This is you trying to kill my team'. If that doesn't translate into blackmail, then what is it????


...I think she's also quite capable of taking someone's life if justified...
Justify a death??? What could ever justify a death except for protecting my home or my people?? I never heard that protecting my work justifies it.

Chelle DB
April 24th, 2011, 02:56 AM
I seriously couldn't figure why all of them except for Biggie were disgusted by it. The creature wasn't that ugly to me, just looked like a whitish slug or something like that.
Yeah, I wasn't repelled by it..or the Mollux (sp?) either...I thought both little abby's were kind cute...in their own kinda cute way. :P I'd love to have a pet like Skippy...but I think I would name him Max...he reminded me of one of the creatures from "Where the Wild Things Are". :)

i like a term a friend of mine coined.....when biggie did the sleepy gas, bigguyver
Oh that's good...very good...I like that one. :D

Apart from those scenes I loved the episode, it was funny and I loved Henry's reaction when he realised he shot Will. :D
I loved Henry's reaction too...I think I even loved Will's reactions...and Kate's....and Biggies...but I loved Helen's most :D

Adam is the one who stepped off the cliff; so how did "Helen" kill him? Did I miss something?
I could be wrong here but I was under the impression that Helen herself thought she had killed Adam when he "fell" off the cliff after she shot him...after all she was very shocked to see him alive in FK&C.

I think a few of you have a really naive view of Helen and what she needs to do to run the Sanctuary network. Jan has pointed a few things out and I agree with her, Helen is an extremely complex character and I think a few people are underselling just how complex both she and her job are.
As for those complaining about Helen trying to fool the UN rep, did you ever think that she may have been seeing just what the UN rep was made of first? There was a lot more going on in those scenes than the superficial "oh Helen lied" aspect that some of you are complaining about.
Will asked or stated that she had done this before and Helen said once or twice so I suspect she was gonna try one way then if that failed go the other...I didn't see it as being deceptive so much as protecting the Sanctuary. No complaints from little old me. :D I loved how it all played out and how Lillian put put her hand and said "Please, call me Lillian"...it all just felt so right. :)

Was it just me or did Helen seem a little more jokey than usual?
Loved Bigfoot hanging upside down in the elevator and how he kept pressing the button even after they found him.
I reckon Helen seems a lot more relaxed and lighter this season...lighter as in happier, funnier. And yes, seeing Biggie hanging upside down in the net and swinging and pushing the bell was quite funny. :D

Kilgharrah
April 24th, 2011, 03:02 AM
...I think I even loved Will's reactions...
Sorry, but I had to say this.
Will's reactionS?????
Please!!!! He only has one and he can't make any other.

EvenstarSRV
April 24th, 2011, 04:32 AM
Justify a death??? What could ever justify a death except for protecting my home or my people?? I never heard that protecting my work justifies it.

Of course in Helen's case protecting her home, as well as her people, does include protecting her work. In End of Nights she killed those superabnormals who were intent on killing her and the others as well as destroying the Sanctuary network. And although she didn't do it directly, she seemed to have little issue with Druitt and Tesla rampaging and taking out members of the Cabal. Or Kate killing that Constantine guy in Hero. Plus she did track down and had the intent to kill Adam not just because he was a threat to others, but also to preserve her work with Watson at the Sanctuary.

So, IMHO, I think it's quite in character for Helen to potentially use deadly force as a last resort to protect the abnormals under her care. I also think blackmail or coercion are also tactics that she'd use to protect them, though again most likely as a last resort. She's done it before in the past, so I don't see why she wouldn't in the present.

Chelle DB
April 24th, 2011, 05:46 AM
Sorry, but I had to say this.
Will's reactionS?????
Please!!!! He only has one and he can't make any other.
I beg to differ...but that's just my opinion and what I observed. :)

Kilgharrah
April 24th, 2011, 08:11 AM
Of course in Helen's case protecting her home, as well as her people, does include protecting her work. In End of Nights she killed those superabnormals who were intent on killing her and the others as well as destroying the Sanctuary network. And although she didn't do it directly, she seemed to have little issue with Druitt and Tesla rampaging and taking out members of the Cabal. Or Kate killing that Constantine guy in Hero. Plus she did track down and had the intent to kill Adam not just because he was a threat to others, but also to preserve her work with Watson at the Sanctuary.

So, IMHO, I think it's quite in character for Helen to potentially use deadly force as a last resort to protect the abnormals under her care. I also think blackmail or coercion are also tactics that she'd use to protect them, though again most likely as a last resort. She's done it before in the past, so I don't see why she wouldn't in the present.
I know that the sanctuary is her home and she's doing something good, but that doesn't make killing allowed.
Anyway, I think I see it now. Helen is not the saint I thought she was. I thought that double life would make her learn and stop doing what's wrong.
Even though I don't agree with killing as a last resort, I think it's OK to lie as a last resort. I just can't see Helen doing it.
I can't get the kind Carter image (strong air-force officer but still kind) out of my head. It gets mixed with the rogue Magnus image.

Skydiver
April 24th, 2011, 08:22 AM
I don't think helen has ever been a saint.

Her job is to:

Protect abbies from humans that would hurt them. (which often means hiding them, lying about them, keeping people from knowing about them, giving them sanctuary from the world)

Protect humans from abbies that would hurt them. (Keep the secret of abbies. Kill those abbies that are just too dangerous to co-exist, lock away those that can be controlled so they can't hurt others, help colonies of abbies find places to live where they can hide from humans)

Study and learn from abbies, to help them, to let them fit in with humans, to 'defang' them if possible (render any harmful attributes harmless, learn how they came to be, study what they are)

Helen is no saint. She's a person doing a job that is both wonderful and terrible, and requires a massive balancing act because she's bridging the gap between two distinct and different groups of creatures, neither of which is perfectly good.

Kilgharrah
April 24th, 2011, 09:49 AM
I don't think helen has ever been a saint.

Her job is to:

Protect abbies from humans that would hurt them. (which often means hiding them, lying about them, keeping people from knowing about them, giving them sanctuary from the world)

Protect humans from abbies that would hurt them. (Keep the secret of abbies. Kill those abbies that are just too dangerous to co-exist, lock away those that can be controlled so they can't hurt others, help colonies of abbies find places to live where they can hide from humans)

Study and learn from abbies, to help them, to let them fit in with humans, to 'defang' them if possible (render any harmful attributes harmless, learn how they came to be, study what they are)

Helen is no saint. She's a person doing a job that is both wonderful and terrible, and requires a massive balancing act because she's bridging the gap between two distinct and different groups of creatures, neither of which is perfectly good.
WOW.
I never thought of it that way. I always thought that she was doing something good because humans do tend to destroy what they don't know and that is out of fear. It is something present in human beings... always.
What I was trying to say from the beginning is that, even though we all know that Helen did many terrible things, I was always on her side and understood why she did it. This happened when we knew she kept Big Bertha alive. We can't even begin to predict how our world would be without her, so why risk it. This time and the time when we knew she tried to kill Adam, I just couldn't understand why she would do such a thing even if I know why she did it.

Feast of the Muse
April 24th, 2011, 10:12 AM
Helen is no saint. She's a person doing a job that is both wonderful and terrible, and requires a massive balancing act because she's bridging the gap between two distinct and different groups of creatures, neither of which is perfectly good.

I agree, but I think she does what she has to do while trying to stay on the better side of her karma. It is, sometimes, a very delicate balancing act. Yes, she has to lie, blackmail, and kill occasionally. But if she didn't succeed, she'd be putting a lot of people and abnormals in danger. Kill one to preserve millions? I'd do it. But what sets Helen apart is that she isn't power-hungry (though she does know she's the woman for the job) and she doesn't have some alternate agenda. What she does, she does to improve life for both sides and protect both sides. She isn't perfect, no. But we wouldn't be so moved by her story if she was. :)

Mandysg1
April 24th, 2011, 10:16 AM
WOW.
I never thought of it that way. I always thought that she was doing something good because humans do tend to destroy what they don't know and that is out of fear. It is something present in human beings... always.
What I was trying to say from the beginning is that, even though we all know that Helen did many terrible things, I was always on her side and understood why she did it. This happened when we knew she kept Big Bertha alive. We can't even begin to predict how our world would be without her, so why risk it. This time and the time when we knew she tried to kill Adam, I just couldn't understand why she would do such a thing even if I know why she did it.

The times she tried to kill Adam...did she really try to kill him? At the cliff's edge, she shot him in the shoulder, and seemed devastated when HE jumped off the cliff. The reason they were chasing him...he tried to kill a large portion of the population of London with poisonous gas, and if let alone he would try again. They were acting on the King's and PrimeMinsister's behalf to bring him to justice. If a cop had shot him, would it make it different?

The second time in Hollow Earth, Adam had stole a very dangerous weapon that could destroy Hollow Earth, the term mass murder comes to mind. Once again Helen shot him in the shoulder, gave him a chance to surrender, but he wouldn't, she couldn't let him get away with the weapon and shot him again. He survived with the weapon, but John was waiting for him when the transporter stopped. When we see the transporter sent back to where Helen was, it was empty, and the weapon was returned. We are not really sure what John did to Adam but perhaps we will find out later ;).

So in these instances I can't see where you are having a problem with what Helen did...it was not attempted murder, it was what any law enforcement officer would do given the same circumstances. Shoot the person causing the threat to others...in this case a large population of others.

RealmOfX
April 24th, 2011, 10:41 AM
Of course in Helen's case protecting her home, as well as her people, does include protecting her work. In End of Nights she killed those superabnormals who were intent on killing her and the others as well as destroying the Sanctuary network. And although she didn't do it directly, she seemed to have little issue with Druitt and Tesla rampaging and taking out members of the Cabal. Or Kate killing that Constantine guy in Hero. Plus she did track down and had the intent to kill Adam not just because he was a threat to others, but also to preserve her work with Watson at the Sanctuary.

So, IMHO, I think it's quite in character for Helen to potentially use deadly force as a last resort to protect the abnormals under her care. I also think blackmail or coercion are also tactics that she'd use to protect them, though again most likely as a last resort. She's done it before in the past, so I don't see why she wouldn't in the present.

Re the bolded part, where did you get that idea from?

In FKAK re tracking down Adam she said "We decided to at the very least apprehend Adam, stop him from harming innocent people."

I see it very much like Mandy said above.

Kilgharrah
April 24th, 2011, 11:38 AM
If a cop had shot him, would it make it different?
Yes!!! It's their job. Cops kill or imprison those who commit murders. They would hang him or anything or whatever. It's their job, not Helen's.

The second time in Hollow Earth, Adam had stole a very dangerous weapon that could destroy Hollow Earth, the term mass murder comes to mind. Once again Helen shot him in the shoulder, gave him a chance to surrender, but he wouldn't, she couldn't let him get away with the weapon and shot him again. He survived with the weapon, but John was waiting for him when the transporter stopped. When we see the transporter sent back to where Helen was, it was empty, and the weapon was returned. We are not really sure what John did to Adam but perhaps we will find out later ;).

So in these instances I can't see where you are having a problem with what Helen did...it was not attempted murder, it was what any law enforcement officer would do given the same circumstances. Shoot the person causing the threat to others...in this case a large population of others.
I think there is another solution for Adam's problem other than killing. It's just my opinion. Why not lock him up like any other dangerous abnormal. He is one after all and a dangerous one for that matter. His place is with all the other dangerous abnormals down in the containment area in the sanctuary.

sanctuary girl
April 24th, 2011, 12:08 PM
First of all I don't think Helen wanted to kill Adam. She shot him so many times, if she had the intention to kill him, she would have done it at one of these occations. I think she tried to protect the public ( London in the past and hollow earth in Pax romana) with as little collateral damage as possible.
Regarding the cop question: Would it change things if there were cops who knew about the Sanctuary and protect abnormals as well? What would it take to start such an organisation and to whom would they answer? The president? The normal police? I think it's not really possible to start something like that without exposing the abnormals to the general public. just my opinion.

And now "totally off topic" ;): I really enjoyed this episode. The story was rather simple, but there were so many great moments:
Henry and his computer - I am the guy who wrote you- and the move of the keybord :)
That's the best bigguy episode so far, garbage compactor, elevator, sleeping gas, his action to cover Helen:p I loved all of it
Helen entering the building and her office, her face when she leaves, when she realised that "dr hottie" is already there...
Great episode

EvenstarSRV
April 24th, 2011, 12:17 PM
I know that the sanctuary is her home and she's doing something good, but that doesn't make killing allowed.
Anyway, I think I see it now. Helen is not the saint I thought she was. I thought that double life would make her learn and stop doing what's wrong.
Even though I don't agree with killing as a last resort, I think it's OK to lie as a last resort. I just can't see Helen doing it.
I can't get the kind Carter image (strong air-force officer but still kind) out of my head. It gets mixed with the rogue Magnus image.

Well, like Sky said, Helen has never been a saint and has lied numerous times in the past. Helen had no qualms about lying point blank to the Prime Minister in King and Country, she lied to the reporter in Instinct, she lied the whole Sanctuary network re Big Bertha, she even lied to an extent to Will in Next Tuesday. So Helen attempting to lie to the UN rep in this ep is not unusual, IMO.

And while you may not agree with killing as a last resort, it is, IMHO, quite clear that Helen does and therefore that is not something I would find out of character for her. I would even say that that is something that Carter, as a soldier, would also agree with to an extent.


Re the bolded part, where did you get that idea from?

In FKAK re tracking down Adam she said "We decided to at the very least apprehend Adam, stop him from harming innocent people."

I see it very much like Mandy said above.

Yeah, I didn't word that very well. What I meant was that while agree that her primary intent was to stop Adam, I do think Helen would have killed him as a last resort. So perhaps not 'intent to kill' as much as intent to stop him by any means necessary? In Hollow Earth I really do think she was shooting to kill.


Yes!!! It's their job. Cops kill or imprison those who commit murders. They would hang him or anything or whatever. It's their job, not Helen's.

Well, in a way Helen has set up her own enforcement system outside of the police with the Sanctuary network, so when it comes to dangerous abnormals I think it's very much Helen's or the network's job. We saw that in Veritas, it was the Triad that handled trying Helen for Biggie's supposed murder, not the police.



I think there is another solution for Adam's problem other than killing. It's just my opinion. Why not lock him up like any other dangerous abnormal. He is one after all and a dangerous one for that matter. His place is with all the other dangerous abnormals down in the containment area in the sanctuary.

Which Helen tried at first, but then Tesla and Druitt used him to go to Hollow Earth and he got free. If Adam had come quietly I'm sure Helen would have locked him up again, after all she's always the one insisting on trying to capture dangerous abnormals alive while the others often wanted to kill them.

Kilgharrah
April 24th, 2011, 12:36 PM
@Evenstar
I see your point. I think that's one of the reasons that made Gregory not able to do that job anymore. One of the reasons that made him leave. It's not an easy job at all. Not anyone can do it. If I were in Helen's place, it would take me less than a year to realize I can't do it.

Abnormal
April 24th, 2011, 01:49 PM
OMG the mollox is SO sweet!!! I want one!!!


29923

jckfan55
April 24th, 2011, 02:10 PM
I think a few of you have a really naive view of Helen and what she needs to do to run the Sanctuary network. Jan has pointed a few things out and I agree with her, Helen is an extremely complex character and I think a few people are underselling just how complex both she and her job are.

As for those complaining about Helen trying to fool the UN rep, did you ever think that she may have been seeing just what the UN rep was made of first? There was a lot more going on in those scenes than the superficial "oh Helen lied" aspect that some of you are complaining about.
I agree with you. I'll have to watch it again, but I thought Magnus had a look of approval at the UN rep's refusal to be snookered.

Skydiver
April 24th, 2011, 02:51 PM
I don't think helen WANTED to kill Adam. She just tried to stop him. But, with Adam, there are two distinct personalities. Adam that has some morals and qualms and Hyde, who's a cold blooded sociopath that'll kill anyone and everyone without even thinking about it.

There are times when something is just too messed up to survive. Dogs that are too sick or too bad tempered to live (such as Pit Bulls that have been bred and trained to fight and will even attack other dogs and people). Horses that are too foundered or lame to be able to walk. There are people that are just too dangerous to live. Ones that will kill at the drop of a hat.

As was mentioned, Hyde set up to poison a huge chunk of London, only stopped by the five. He planned to be a mass murderer. and there's every chance that he'll do so again.

RealmOfX
April 24th, 2011, 04:19 PM
Yes!!! It's their job. Cops kill or imprison those who commit murders. They would hang him or anything or whatever. It's their job, not Helen's.

Actually it is Helen's and the Sanctuary network's job, it's why the world governments allow them to exist. It's why the Sanctuary network have to subject themselves to UN oversight, like in this episode, it's all about checks and balances in a not publicly acknowledge part of the world - the abnormal world, where any out of the normal range of things must be handled.

Julian
April 24th, 2011, 05:01 PM
Loved this episode!!

Though I feel like it lost its momentum and effect a bit towards the end, when it was like "okay now we know Henry's POV, and Kate's POV... now just need to find Will and Bigfoot..." there wasn't much mystery/hidden element to it anymore.

The ending was a bit cheesy as well. But it was a nice break from the Praxis arch and hopefully brings in a nice casual audience :)

MelissaAdams
April 24th, 2011, 07:49 PM
Well finally getting a chance to post my two cents that is worth about one cent but well you know...LOL

Anyways let me just say that next to Next Tuesday which I ADORED and still do this is my absolutely FAVORITE episode of the series. Sanctuary humor at it's best and it was nice to see Helen on the outside without being involved in the action trying to piece the mystery together through the others.

Henry and Will fighting made me think of little brothers who quickly forgot they were mad at each other but while they were mad just wanted to rip each other's heads off. Glad they're back to being 'brothers' though cause they rock together.

Kate I have to say I really liked her in this episode it was wonderfully done and her character unlike in Pax Romana did not feel forced but flowed well reminding me why I started to like her in the first place. LOL

The whole Helen dealing with the UN thing I think was a beautiful way to look into some of the real world issues she has to deal with, it's not just the other Sanctuary heads who are watching her but the real world is...they don't just let her run this huge network unless she can prove she can do it and she really did.

On the whole Helen lying to the UN security chief about what happened I think Helen could and should have done that, remember what's been happening before that couple moments in the scene and despite them cleaning up her office logically the Sanctuary is still trashed, abnormals have to be up in arms, emails not answered, phone calls need returned, briefing Declan and the others on the situation that is now handled. I think she was just trying to spare herself some grief and if the chief had bought it hey no loss, no questions it's all good but if she didn't then she came clean and that was what she needed to do so I have no problem with her lying and trying to spare herself some explainations.

I agree with a lot of what is said here, I think some of us have a very naive view of Helen Magnus and what she does and it's easy to do don't get me wrong. Every time I watch her I uncover a new layer to her personality and even Amanda has said herself she still hasn't totally gotten Magnus yet...not understanding why she may or may not do something is just part of her charm but for the record. Yes I fully believe she has and would kill, lie, lock up or whatever she needed to not only protect the abnormal world but the human world or innocents not to mention family which she considers all her patients to be.

Overall as a final thought I just want to say KUDOS to the Sanctuary team on this episode, I still laugh when I watch it...especially thinking of Biggie just swinging there with his finger out pushing that button...LOL "Took you long enough" ring, ring.

Chelle DB
April 25th, 2011, 12:14 AM
Yeah, I didn't word that very well. What I meant was that while agree that her primary intent was to stop Adam, I do think Helen would have killed him as a last resort. So perhaps not 'intent to kill' as much as intent to stop him by any means necessary? In Hollow Earth I really do think she was shooting to kill.
IMHO, she should've aimed for the head :P...never shoot the bad guy in a place where they can live to make trouble for another day. :D
I think that at some point during her "encounter" with Adam in Breach, she must have wanted to kill him...IIRC, it was a matter of kill or be killed at that point. Not that she wanted to kill him but maybe more that she needed to...and wanted to as well. :P Jeez, I know I would have wanted to...slippery little sucker is Adam. :P

OMG the mollox is SO sweet!!! I want one!!!
I know...he kinda looks like King Julian from Madagascar...but with long horns! :lol: "Does anybody else have a problem with Mr Alex Henry??"
Ok...now I have that darned song going through my head...."I like to move it move it!!"

atlantis_babe34
April 25th, 2011, 04:47 AM
to sum up my review all i have is

Magnus: "Cover me!"
Biggie: "yoooooo hooooooo!"

suse
April 25th, 2011, 04:56 AM
When did Helen kill Adam?


she's shot him several times...almost as many as druitt, but he was alive the last time she saw him...druitt actually was the last person to see him

Which was my point. :) Thanks for verifying! :D

suse
April 25th, 2011, 05:36 AM
When did Helen kill Adam?




I could be wrong here but I was under the impression that Helen herself thought she had killed Adam when he "fell" off the cliff after she shot him...after all she was very shocked to see him alive in FK&C. Him stepping off a cliff and dying from that (and the gunshot wound, although that was not a shot that was meant to kill) is different from her killing him. Would she have? Yes. Absolutely. He was a madman who wanted to be a mass murderer and would not come peacefully. So to her it might have been one and the same (emotionally). But no, she didn't kill him, he "committed suicide" rather than be caught.

I'm fairly certain she wanted to kill him in Pax. Still, it was Druitt that really killed him. (We think.)

suse
April 25th, 2011, 05:46 AM
When did Helen kill Adam?


Yes!!! It's their job. Cops kill or imprison those who commit murders. They would hang him or anything or whatever. It's their job, not Helen's.
Except The Five had been *commissioned by their king* to bring him in/stop the risk to London. Making them arms of the government, the same way cops are. ;) She gave him a choice the same way a cop does. *He* chose to jump.


I think there is another solution for Adam's problem other than killing. It's just my opinion. Why not lock him up like any other dangerous abnormal. He is one after all and a dangerous one for that matter. His place is with all the other dangerous abnormals down in the containment area in the sanctuary.


Again, she gave him a choice. He was not going willingly and there were not exactly a lot of options. In fact, he got away both times. For crying out loud, he was *dead* in Hollow Earth and that assistant revived him.

Kilgharrah
April 25th, 2011, 07:25 AM
Again, she gave him a choice. He was not going willingly and there were not exactly a lot of options. In fact, he got away both times. For crying out loud, he was *dead* in Hollow Earth and that assistant revived him.
willingly??? A choice????
Someone like Adam should be taken without asking just like all the other dangerous abnormals. She certainly doesn't ask for their permission to keep them in the sanctuary. Adam lost his right of choice long ago. He acts like an animal now. He should be treated like one. At least that works for Hyde who is the dominant one most of the time. Unless Helen can find a way to suppress Hyde. That would solve all.

suse
April 25th, 2011, 07:39 AM
The difference being, as far as I can tell, is that the dangerous abnormals are acting out of self preservation/instinct. Hyde... not so much.

:lol: We will never agree on this.

So... Hangover. I really need to rewatch. Nice light eppy with some fun one-liners.

Didn't much buy Will - as a psychiatrist - going postal on Henry when it's obvious there was an underlying problem.

Chelle DB
April 25th, 2011, 08:15 AM
Him stepping off a cliff and dying from that (and the gunshot wound, although that was not a shot that was meant to kill) is different from her killing him. Would she have? Yes. Absolutely. He was a madman who wanted to be a mass murderer and would not come peacefully. So to her it might have been one and the same (emotionally). But no, she didn't kill him, he "committed suicide" rather than be caught.
I'm fairly certain she wanted to kill him in Pax. Still, it was Druitt that really killed him. (We think.)
Ok so I think what I'm trying to say is that she thought she had killed him...she said so herself in Breach -
"This is impossible, you're dead, I killed you"
I was merely pointing out that she believed she had killed him. Which is why I said - I could be wrong here but I was under the impression that Helen herself thought she had killed Adam when he "fell" off the cliff after she shot him...after all she was very shocked to see him alive in FK&C.

MidwifeOnBoard
April 25th, 2011, 09:00 AM
I have to admit, after finally seeing this ep last night, I didn't find it any where near as hilarious as I had been led to believe from the reactions on twitter. My friend and I kept waiting for the hilarity to ensue. I guess that's the problem with coming to an episode late. The hype can let you down.

Regarding Magnus' itty-bitty skirt and gigantic smile at the first flashback, we were highly suspicious of this 'conferece' she was going to. When you pair it with the itty-bitty bag she packed in for three days, we were even more suspicious that the 'conference' might be 'somewhere in Germany.' :P

suse
April 25th, 2011, 01:35 PM
Ok so I think what I'm trying to say is that she thought she had killed him...she said so herself in Breach -
"This is impossible, you're dead, I killed you"
I was merely pointing out that she believed she had killed him. Which is why I said - I could be wrong here but I was under the impression that Helen herself thought she had killed Adam when he "fell" off the cliff after she shot him...after all she was very shocked to see him alive in FK&C.
There is no denying that he fell off the cliff. He shouldn't have survived that fall. Whether he he fell from the gunshot or fell because he let himself fall doesn't matter. Anyone falling form that height should not have survived. Hence she was shocked to see him alive. :lol: Never mind that he wasn't part of The Five so there was no reason to think he had survived.

slurredspeech
April 25th, 2011, 03:25 PM
A bit too predictable (sorry, guys :) but it was very obvious from the very beginning what was going on and how), but still good fun.

And Helen looked absolutely stunning. I love her hair back.

jckfan55
April 25th, 2011, 04:42 PM
I have to admit, after finally seeing this ep last night, I didn't find it any where near as hilarious as I had been led to believe from the reactions on twitter. My friend and I kept waiting for the hilarity to ensue. I guess that's the problem with coming to an episode late. The hype can let you down.

I didn't find it that funny either. Not bad, but not particularly funny. Maybe it's just my sense of humor. At least it didn't feel painfully like "let's *try* to be funny."



Regarding Magnus' itty-bitty skirt and gigantic smile at the first flashback, we were highly suspicious of this 'conferece' she was going to. When you pair it with the itty-bitty bag she packed in for three days, we were even more suspicious that the 'conference' might be 'somewhere in Germany.' :P

an interesting angle I hadn't considered... ;)

MidwifeOnBoard
April 25th, 2011, 06:03 PM
1. I didn't find it that funny either. Not bad, but not particularly funny. Maybe it's just my sense of humor. At least it didn't feel painfully like "let's *try* to be funny."



2. Aan interesting angle I hadn't considered... ;)
1. I also didn't feel they were trying particularly hard to be funny. It just didn't tickle my funny bone at all the way it did for so many.

2. My friend and I came up with it at the same time. We put 2+3 together, first WTFing over what woman could pack for 3 days in that bag, then complaining about the OOC clothes (tho totally in awe of how amazing she looked) and the smile just did us in. THAT we were LOLing about. ;)

Feast of the Muse
April 25th, 2011, 06:13 PM
1. I also didn't feel they were trying particularly hard to be funny. It just didn't tickle my funny bone at all the way it did for so many.

2. My friend and I came up with it at the same time. We put 2+3 together, first WTFing over what woman could pack for 3 days in that bag, then complaining about the OOC clothes (tho totally in awe of how amazing she looked) and the smile just did us in. THAT we were LOLing about. ;)

Actually, Helen states as she leaves them that she'll be back in a day and a half. So that bag is plenty big! I can pack over a week in a bag that size. It helps that I am short, but at 160 years old I'm hoping Helen has learned how to pack (http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2010/05/06/business/businessspecial/20100506-pack-ss.html)!

MidwifeOnBoard
April 25th, 2011, 06:19 PM
Actually, Helen states as she leaves them that she'll be back in a day and a half. So that bag is plenty big! I can pack over a week in a bag that size. It helps that I am short, but at 160 years old I'm hoping Helen has learned how to pack (http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2010/05/06/business/businessspecial/20100506-pack-ss.html)!
I dunno. That's still 2 nights. And I have a feeling Helen is fairly high maintenance. ;) Plus, the suit she was wearing on her return wouldn't have fit in there.

KayLyne
April 25th, 2011, 06:22 PM
I dunno. That's still 2 nights. And I have a feeling Helen is fairly high maintenance. ;) Plus, the suit she was wearing on her return wouldn't have fit in there.

Maybe she already has a wardrobe stash at the place of her "conference".

pgh1227
April 25th, 2011, 06:24 PM
She could have just bought new stuff when she got there. lol. It's not like she doesn't have any money...

Feast of the Muse
April 25th, 2011, 06:24 PM
I dunno. That's still 2 nights. And I have a feeling Helen is fairly high maintenance. ;) Plus, the suit she was wearing on her return wouldn't have fit in there.

How would it not fit? She could roll it or use the over and under method demonstrated in the link...

Eh, I know good and well that I pack light for a girl. I'll hush now. :P

MidwifeOnBoard
April 25th, 2011, 06:43 PM
Maybe she already has a wardrobe stash at the place of her "conference".

I like the way you think...

Skydiver
April 25th, 2011, 07:36 PM
helen left tuesday to come back thursday...and it's presumably an overnight flight, west coast us to europe, she's literally flying in, briefing, flying out

Feast of the Muse
April 25th, 2011, 09:13 PM
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_Y1ya2tEteik/TbZHsviszbI/AAAAAAAAACI/ym9zOti5qi8/s700/saybyebye.png

Oh my dear Helen, this does not bode well.

CathieJ7
April 26th, 2011, 10:39 AM
This was an awesome episode! Gotta say that I love it. Come on... started with Henry and went to the rest... They were all a little "crazy" in parts. It looks like they had such a great time filming this!

The quips from each character is so true to character as well. This is definately on my "rewatch several times" list! Oh wait... already done that!

LOL

mjwalshe
April 26th, 2011, 03:07 PM
I'm I the first to mention Helen's short skirt? Amazing legs. :D :D

Didn't want to be pervey but both of Helens outfits where very smart and it has to be said sexy - must be a reaction to all those years in camo and army boots.

AresLover452
April 28th, 2011, 10:21 PM
I am totally in love with this episode so uch that I am letting it load again just so I can see Biggie hanging upside in the elevator pushing the call bell!! OMG!! That is hilarious!

dee
April 30th, 2011, 11:42 PM
1. I don't think it was their intention to make the main focus to be us figuring it all out; but to amuse us as the Sanctuary team figured it out.
2. How is this a problem...I'm missing what you are saying, I think.



I can't say I approved of it (if only that part was her original plan) but I do think we are giving some insight of why she would:
Transcript from Edward..
HELEN
Will, I wasn't entirely comfortable with you making it sound as if The Sanctuary were an arm of law enforcement.

WILL
Well, I had to push her to get at what she was hiding.

HELEN
The unravelling of who killed this man and why may well yield a treasure trove of information about this abnormality. But make no mistake, I will not help compound an injustice.

WILL
So, what are you saying? That we withhold evidence from the authorities?

HELEN
If it's in service of preserving an extraordinary life like Edward's or the mother who tried to protect those sons? You'd better know that I would.


So yes, I think she would lie if she felt the Sanctuary's mission was threatened and the lie would not endanger anyone.
Helen basically put Lillian in her position so apparently Lillian must feel the lie or omission of the incident wasn't harmful for anyone. She still had the rest of the "tour" to decide if that was correct.

About the killing Adam....I've seen several including Helen say this so help me understand. Granted she shot him but the wound did not seem life threatening and she told him not to move; she didn't seem eager to shoot again. Even Will made a comment in For King and Country about Adam's death...
Will: No, no, come on, suicide? You've already played that card.
Adam: True, true. A good magician never performs the same trick twice--

(thanks Sky for doing the FKAC transcripts :D)

Adam is the one who stepped off the cliff; so how did "Helen" kill him? Did I miss something?


no not really, Helen was really trying to wound Adam not kill him at least thats what she hoped for and she did give him way to many breaks. Helen will swollow her pride and do what ever (lie,hurt or even kill) she has to do to protect the sanctuary.

dee
April 30th, 2011, 11:58 PM
Yes!!! It's their job. Cops kill or imprison those who commit murders. They would hang him or anything or whatever. It's their job, not Helen's.

I think there is another solution for Adam's problem other than killing. It's just my opinion. Why not lock him up like any other dangerous abnormal. He is one after all and a dangerous one for that matter. His place is with all the other dangerous abnormals down in the containment area in the sanctuary.
Yes Helen shot Adam in the shoulder and he walked off the cliff but it was John who told her Adam drowned thats why she thought she killed Adam and she blamed herself for his death.

dee
May 1st, 2011, 12:04 AM
Yes!!! It's their job. Cops kill or imprison those who commit murders. They would hang him or anything or whatever. It's their job, not Helen's.

I think there is another solution for Adam's problem other than killing. It's just my opinion. Why not lock him up like any other dangerous abnormal. He is one after all and a dangerous one for that matter. His place is with all the other dangerous abnormals down in the containment area in the sanctuary.
How do you lock some one like him up? he's to smart, he'll find a way out. and in a way Helen is the police, her job is to protect both abnormles and normiles alike

dee
May 1st, 2011, 12:39 AM
How would it not fit? She could roll it or use the over and under method demonstrated in the link...

Eh, I know good and well that I pack light for a girl. I'll hush now. :P being in the military and moving around alot you'd be surprised what you can pack in that itty bitty bag.

Kilgharrah
May 1st, 2011, 03:58 AM
How do you lock some one like him up? he's to smart, he'll find a way out.
Helen is older and smarter than him. She can find a way. And what if he escaped??? It would make a great episode of searching for him and locking him up again and Helen will find him if that happens. She knows how he thinks.
She could also inject him with something or connect him to a device to suppress Hyde. Lots of options. Just think about it.

Klenotka
May 1st, 2011, 03:19 PM
I loved this episode. I prefer story-arc stories but stand alone episodes can be so much fun when the whole team is involved!
I liked how the pieces of the story came slowly together, and how they used the camera to show it. The interaction between characters/actors was great and I would like to see more episodes set only in Sanctuary only with our characters involved :)

charles582
May 26th, 2011, 04:21 PM
I had a thought about the episode and would like to share it here. You all may recall seeing will's recollection of the events that happened to him that day. Specifically, where that creature had grabbed ahold of will's leg and was dragging him towards it. It reminded me of the recollection of what happened to will the night his mother died. The creature had started to drag him away as well then too. Maybe that was why will was trying so hard to kill henry after he saw him when he woke up?

Professor_S
May 27th, 2011, 11:11 AM
I had a thought about the episode and would like to share it here. You all may recall seeing will's recollection of the events that happened to him that day. Specifically, where that creature had grabbed ahold of will's leg and was dragging him towards it. It reminded me of the recollection of what happened to will the night his mother died. The creature had started to drag him away as well then too. Maybe that was why will was trying so hard to kill henry after he saw him when he woke up?

That's a good point! I didn't even think of that, but that makes a lot of sense to me.

Matt G
June 8th, 2011, 05:16 AM
1. OK...certainly enough WTFs to start with.

2. Will and Henry...I can sort of get, afterall when you're panicing like Will was you don't have the chance to analyse and work out what's going on.

3. Helen and Lillian. Hmmm...not sure 'what' to make of this one, Helen pulling a fast one on the UN...has she "done this before" as in...let a mini-abnormal into the Sancturary? Surely not but...

Kilgharrah
June 8th, 2011, 07:08 AM
...let a mini-abnormal...
MINI???? Don't u mean micro or nanno??

Matt G
June 9th, 2011, 03:04 PM
Fine...micro-abnormal!

Trynki
August 11th, 2011, 09:54 AM
This is definitely one of my favourite Sanctuary episodes. I was basically laughing throughout the entire episode. Biggie, especially, was hilarious: His reaction to the bug, hanging upside down in the elevator and of course the 'woo hoo'. I also loved how the cameras inside the Sanctuary showed how they were all chasing each other.

selene0789
August 30th, 2011, 06:30 PM
This episode made me crack up! I wish they'd make more like that. It was light-hearted, but it wasn't pure fluff either. I'd hoped with a full 20 episodes there'd be more like this one, but I guess not. :( Had to make room for Wingmen and One Night, huh? hehehe...

But I figure any episode that can make me laugh out loud gets a HUUUGE thumbs up in my book! :)

Stargate Atlantis Girl
February 7th, 2014, 04:53 AM
Did anyone else catch the Twilight line? When biggie was talking to Will about Twilight and Will asked him if he liked the book and he said, "I like Marcus". Found that hilarious because Christopher Heyerdhal plays Marcus in the movies :lol: And trust me, not a Twilight fan but I couldn't stop cracking up! :D

Bonniesrg
February 12th, 2014, 12:23 AM
Yeah, I found that part hilarious too.

blueray
June 30th, 2015, 03:15 PM
I was just rewatching this episode since it's a good one.

One thing I still don't get is the timing of everything. It seems like the events that they describe would have only took a few hours to happen, so it would all have been the rest of Tuesday. So to quote Henry, What happen to Wednesday?