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GateWorld
April 18th, 2011, 07:32 AM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s6/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/thealmostpeople-160x120.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">DOCTOR WHO - SERIES 32</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s6/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">THE ALMOST PEOPLE</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 3206 (606)</FONT>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0;">While the human survivors await rescue Jennifer's Ganger manipulates Rory and attempts to destroy the factory. When the Doctor learns he has a Ganger of his own, he and Amy clash over whether he can be trusted.</DIV>
<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s6/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Sealurk
May 28th, 2011, 11:31 AM
Okay, that was pretty good.

It was an improvement on last week's episode, though largely predictable (hands up who knew both of the Jen's were Flesh the moment you see them and that the Doctors swapped places). The ending, however, was pretty great. I'll have to watch that one again to catch some of the dialogue I missed.

And now the Doctor knows about his death!

Teddybrown
May 28th, 2011, 11:34 AM
Lool beaten to it for once

Pharaoh Hamenthotep
May 28th, 2011, 11:36 AM
Eyepatch Lady said "You're doing fine, you're doing just fine" or something to that effect.. And if that was followed by "I'm going to need you to push, on three"... it wouldn't seem completely out of place..

Eyepatch Lady is a midwife :eek: Which would fit with the pictures of Amy with a baby and the whole is she/isn't she pregnant storyline.. The one thing that doesn't quite fit is why the TARDIS is taking so long to confirm it. I know it's for dramatic effect and to keep people guessing, but it really shouldn't take so long!

Is it possible for Amy to be dreaming the current adventures while in some hospital with pirate-themed midwives? Or is she both there and in the TARDIS at the same time? The TARDIS can't get a definite answer because both answers are true..

PH was close! :cool:

And the problem about the Doctor not being allowed to know about his death... he's been on adventures with past regenerations before so knowing his own future shouldn't have been a problem... Maybe it's just River's obsession with spoilers? :p

Bodmanbod
May 28th, 2011, 11:39 AM
Three parter o.0

Sort of...


And the eye patch lady spoke :D seems the midwife theory was right, what was with the big green light by amys feet?

pbellosom
May 28th, 2011, 11:41 AM
he's been on adventures with past regenerations before so knowing his own future shouldn't have been a problem

But I'm sure in the Three Doctors at least, it's stated that the Time Lords are doing fancy stuff to stop this being a problem. And I imagine there's no problem knowing you're going to be alive in the future he's not going to try and avoid that fate. But once you know that you're going to die, you're going to try and stop it even if it's only subconsciously.

Teddybrown
May 28th, 2011, 11:44 AM
I cant edit my post so Ill just post here

The two Jens was a tad bit obvious, saw that coming as soon as they appeared.

But OMG, those last two minutes...
We all had our suspicions that something wasnt right about Amy, so it looks like some of us were right that she was never saved from the Silence
A few questions answered but still we get more questions thrown at us!

Looks like theyve answered why the Tardis cant tell if Amys pregnant, but so many questions to be answered...
Where is Amy?
What do they want with her?
Cant wait for next weeks episode!

Next weeks episode is going to be awesome!!
Heres the trailer
http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/videos/p00h7m4l

And prequel
http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/videos/p00h74x2

Who the hell is this eyepatch lady, and how do the cybermen tie into it?
And also, who are the cloaked figures?
Lol at Rory 'Where is my wife?'

Sealurk
May 28th, 2011, 11:50 AM
Having two Doctors was awesome, especially with the instability caused by all those regenerations at the beginning ("Would you like a jelly baby?" and "Reverse the polarity of the neutron flow!" were very welcome nods to the old series :) ).

The mystery surrounding Amy gets some new developments that are actually pretty damn good. I haven't liked Amy much this season, so maybe the weird situation she's in explains a bit of her altered character as well as the quantum pregnancy.

I am definitely looking forward to the next episode!

Bodmanbod
May 28th, 2011, 11:50 AM
Still possible it's the doctors ganger that dies though, the doctor said something to his ganger about it's possible their molecules could survive or something and handed him the sonic, the ganger then did something with it right at the end when they were being vaporised. Doubt any of that would be included if it wasn't going to play a part later.

"reverse the polarity of the jelly baby" awesome

Missster.Freeman
May 28th, 2011, 11:54 AM
Oucha! That was an unexpected ending! Uh, when was Amy replaced by The Flesh?

In next week's episode... Introducing: The Bolians! :P

Alan
May 28th, 2011, 12:36 PM
Wow. And that ending...woah! Did NOT see that coming!

Billz
May 28th, 2011, 01:00 PM
Wow. And that ending...woah! Did NOT see that coming!

Same here. The episode left me slightly confused, same with "The Rebel Flesh". I rewatch is in order.
Also, during "The Flesh Doctor's" slight freakout at the beginning of the episode, did anyone else hear Tom Bakers' voice, or was that just me? :D

Teddybrown
May 28th, 2011, 01:14 PM
I need to rewatch it because of the Doctor switch, and those last two minutes...Steven Moffat seems to have been very clever here, cant wait to see the explanation of everything...

Blencathra
May 28th, 2011, 01:17 PM
Like a lot of you I did think that both of the Jennifer's were the Flesh. I kept changing my mind about the two Doctors. First I thought they'd swapped but then I changed my mind. :P But Amy being a duplicate all this time? I did not see that coming AT ALL.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3204/5768728549_82d287bf1b_o.gif

I loved the glimpses of the Third & Fourth Doctors. :P Jelly babies and the neutron flow. *happy sigh* :)

As for the prequel & trailer!! :eek: Is it next Saturday yet!?

Billz
May 28th, 2011, 01:23 PM
Has anyone else noticed that Steven Moffat seems to have established a pattern of 2 of the 11th Doctor showing up at various points?

The Big Bang - The Doctor interacts briefly with himself from 12 minutes in the future.

Space - The Doctor from a few seconds in the future walks into the TARDIS after having walked into the police box shell in order to tell his past self about the wibbley lever.

The Impossible Astronaut - The Doctor from almost 200 years into the future sent his 908 year old self an invitation to meet up with Amy, Rory and River in that diner.

The Rebel Flesh/The Almost People - Another 11th Doctor created out of the Flesh.

I wonder why Steven Moffat is trying to push the idea of more than one of the current Doctor?

DigiFluid
May 28th, 2011, 01:42 PM
Innnnteresting. Largely I found these two episodes to have bored me to tears, but what a great ending on this one. I wonder how long Ganger Amy has replaced Real Amy? We started seeing Eyepatch Lady back in Day of the Moon, could it be that we haven't seen our Amy since way back then?

Alan
May 28th, 2011, 01:50 PM
Same here. The episode left me slightly confused, same with "The Rebel Flesh". I rewatch is in order.
Also, during "The Flesh Doctor's" slight freakout at the beginning of the episode, did anyone else hear Tom Bakers' voice, or was that just me? :D

Didn't just hear Tom Baker's voice but David Tennant's too. Also getting some lines from previous Doctor's such as the line "One day we shall get back" from the VERY first Doctor Who story An Unearthly Child was a joy and a pleasure.

Love this show. :D

Teddybrown
May 28th, 2011, 01:52 PM
Innnnteresting. Largely I found these two episodes to have bored me to tears, but what a great ending on this one. I wonder how long Ganger Amy has replaced Real Amy? We started seeing Eyepatch Lady back in Day of the Moon, could it be that we haven't seen our Amy since way back then?

I get the feeling Amy hasnt been Amy for awhile...
Dunno when they would have switched though...

Alan
May 28th, 2011, 01:57 PM
I get the feeling Amy hasnt been Amy for awhile...
Dunno when they would have switched though...

The Doctor Who Confidential for this episode says that Amy first appeared in the last few minutes of this episode. Since the beginning of Season 32 we've been watching a 'Ganger.

Billz
May 28th, 2011, 02:13 PM
Didn't just hear Tom Baker's voice but David Tennant's too. Also getting some lines from previous Doctor's such as the line "One day we shall get back" from the VERY first Doctor Who story An Unearthly Child was a joy and a pleasure.

Love this show. :D

Missed that bit. Loved the return of the famous "reverse the polarity of the neutron flow" line, although I would have prefered to hear an audio clip of Jon Pertwee saying it like we did with Tom Bakers' "would you like a jelly baby?". Was I the only one who didn't notice David Tennants voice during the first time watching the freakout?

Matt Smith has settled so nicely into the role, that I now feel that David Tennant never was the Doctor. Feels like Matt Smith has been doing it for years. Not sure if that is a positive thing or negative thing. Depends on the fans I guess. :D

EDIT: Just tracked down where the jelly baby audio is from. "The Robots Of Death", 29 January to 19 February 1977. First Classic Doctor Who serial I bought on DVD. It's the exact same audio! :D

knowles2
May 28th, 2011, 02:20 PM
It was alright.

But next episode looks so much better.


Big ass Space battle.
People with light sabers .

Doctor child coming along.
An inter show alien appearing from Star trek,
A gun battle.

What more could we ask for, no old enemies showing up will undoubtedly make it better but shamefully we have got the cybermen, not as bad as Daleks, but still way over use enemy and boring.

Billz
May 28th, 2011, 02:26 PM
It was alright.

But next episode looks so much better.

Doctor child coming along.
An inter show alien appearing from Star trek,
A gun battle.

Did not see those things at all in the trailer. Your imagination maybe?

DigiFluid
May 28th, 2011, 02:28 PM
I think knowles meant this trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_NLjHUKEro) (for next week's episode). Though I spotted at least one old enemy in there.

Billz
May 28th, 2011, 02:31 PM
I think knowles meant this trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_NLjHUKEro) (for next week's episode). Though I spotted at least one old enemy in there.

Still not seeing the Star Trek alien or a baby that could be the Doctors' that knowles was talking about. I'm seeing Amy with her baby. Doesn't mean to say that is the Doctors' baby aswell. Rory could have easily "got there first" ;) .

DigiFluid
May 28th, 2011, 02:33 PM
Ah. TBH I didn't click your spoiler tag to see the ones you'd highlighted, I just assumed you had quoted his entire post :)

Billz
May 28th, 2011, 02:38 PM
Ah. TBH I didn't click your spoiler tag to see the ones you'd highlighted, I just assumed you had quoted his entire post :)

Spoiler tags are there to be clicked. ;)

knowles2
May 28th, 2011, 02:59 PM
Still not seeing the Star Trek alien or a baby that could be the Doctors' that knowles was talking about. I'm seeing Amy with her baby. Doesn't mean to say that is the Doctors' baby aswell. Rory could have easily "got there first" ;) .
The Bolian (fat blue alien) says they are using the device on the Doctor child, so there seem to be only one child i the episode, Amy Child.

This video here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/videos/p00h74x2

The big fat blue alien is clearly a Bolian for star trek. Or I suppose he could be a Delvian on a visit from the Farscape universe. There been a lot of blue aliens in Scifi, but could not they choose a more original color.



An it seem we even got some Jedi/ Lord Sith showing up as well from the Star wars universe. They even got the cloaks and light Sabers .

which can be seen here An you see the shoot out in that video to.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/videos/p00h7m4l

Naonak
May 28th, 2011, 03:20 PM
The Bolian (fat blue alien) says they are using the device on the Doctor child, so there seem to be only one child i the episode, Amy Child.
He doesn't specifically say it's the Doctor's kid - just that he's heard rumours about who it is, and that it'd anger the Doctor. Could easily just be "The Doctor's companion's child?!", which the Doctor wouldn't exactly take lying down either.

kirmit
May 28th, 2011, 03:25 PM
I liked the episode, I liked the big twist but I found alot of contradictions. For example, The Doctor said the tardis energy made the gangers real people, why didn't it do the same for ganger Amy? Also, the whole time in this 2 parter, The Doctor has been going on about how the gangers have a right to live, how they're people too and then he just went and killed ganger Amy.

Ian-S
May 28th, 2011, 03:27 PM
I get the feeling Amy hasnt been Amy for awhile...
Dunno when they would have switched though...

I'm guessing somewhere between The Big Bang and The Impossible Astronaut (or perhaps the 4(?) month gap between TIA and Day of the Moon.

Now I'm starting to wonder if the Doctor we saw die in TIA was the danger from this episode and the age thing was just a red herring - god could the guy in the Astronaut suit be the Doctor himself? Time to go back and see what shoes the older Doctor was wearing....

My head is about to go pop trying to work this out.

btw, does The Doctor have a Sonic Screwdriver manufacturing plant in his inside pocket?

knowles2
May 28th, 2011, 03:36 PM
I liked the episode, I liked the big twist but I found alot of contradictions. For example, The Doctor said the tardis energy made the gangers real people, why didn't it do the same for ganger Amy?

The Tardis energy did not make them real people. It just fixed them so they could not longer go into monster looking mode with white skin when they get stress or angry or confuse. They are still synthetic flesh.



Also, the whole time in this 2 parter, The Doctor has been going on about how the gangers have a right to live, how they're people too and then he just went and killed ganger Amy. Perhaps because who ever got the real Amy was spying on the Doctor through the flesh Amy, and he could not figure out how to cut them off.

And the consider the next episode is about him rescuing the real Amy it was just to much of a security risk keeping her on board the Tardis.

Carter1994
May 28th, 2011, 03:49 PM
Wow, what an episode. That was just great. :D

First off, hurrah for being right about Amy as a 'Ganger. Those last two minutes... wow. It seems to me as if Amy must have been captured in between The Impossible Astronaut and Day of the Moon, when they were in the warehouse. Amy was already at least two months pregnant (but not much more, or she'd would be showing) at this point, and by the time they regroup at Area 51, three more months have passed. So the switch pretty much had to have been in the warehouse. And now I'm wondering if anyone else is a ganger... Like the entire Silence army. A rather unlikely scenario, but possibly plausible? Nah.

Anyway! As to the first 43 minutes of today's episode (haha), I really quite enjoyed it. Both Jennifers being Gangers was rather obvious (especially considering the blood-curdling scream we heard at the end of last week's episode), but I have to say I didn't figure out that the two Doctors switched spots. Comes from paying too much attention to Amy, I suppose. I did feel bad for Jennifer in the end (always the quiet ones...). She almost seemed schizophrenic.

I did get a kick out of the scene where the Doctor's leaning over Real!Jennifer and proclaims her dead--the actress took a deep breath right as he said it. :P


Also, the whole time in this 2 parter, The Doctor has been going on about how the gangers have a right to live, how they're people too and then he just went and killed ganger Amy.

I knew someone was going to ask this. Ganger!Amy was not like the other flesh. Real Amy was still controlling it, so it was just a shell. The other Gangers in this episode were alive and separate from the original people because of the electrical strike.

PMN1
May 28th, 2011, 04:39 PM
The Impossible Astronaut - The Doctor from almost 200 years into the future sent his 908 year old self an invitation to meet up with Amy, Rory and River in that diner.



Interesting point made on the Gaiifreybase website

In the first episode of the impossible astronaut when the gang are at the picnic.

The doctor states he is 1103, Amy says 1103? you were 908 the last time we saw you.

After he dies, back at the dinner the doctor walks out from the back room and after River asks him to tell Amy how old he was, he says that he is 909 years old.

The last time they saw the "real" doctor his age was 908 - "the 909 doctor and the 1103 doctor could be the fakes" or the same person.


Or...the Doctor had a birthday between A Christmas Carol and The Impossible Astronaut.

Teddybrown
May 28th, 2011, 04:55 PM
The Doctor Who Confidential for this episode says that Amy first appeared in the last few minutes of this episode. Since the beginning of Season 32 we've been watching a 'Ganger.

Ooo, interesting, Ill have to watch that
Wonder when the switch was made then?

Who else thinks we will see the Doctor uniting with some of his old enemies to fight one common enemy to them all?
The BBC website states that
The Cybermen, Sontarans and Sullarians are showing up and also a cast list lists Hugh Bonnevilles character
Now my guess is that the Doctor goes across galaxies rounding up all these people to help because a synopsis I read said the Doctor is raising an army to rescue Amy and he and Rory are calling in long-held debts and solemnly given promises

But also, it says his enemies are laying a trap for him so maybe these enemies are part of this trap...

It seems these promo pictures confirm my idea that atleast the Sontarans are helping us the Doctor and Rory
http://doctorwhotv.co.uk/a-good-man-goes-to-war-pics-20754.htm

sparklegem
May 28th, 2011, 07:20 PM
Well, can't say I'm surprised at the ending. I know I've bemoaned this in another thread, but if you will allow me, I have to say that just unwitting reading the 1st sentence of the BBC description of a Good Man Goes to War kind of ruined this episode for me. I would have been ecstatic to see my theory (shared by many others) come to fruition, except that already having had it pretty much confirmed by reading "Amy is kidnapped" in A Good Man Goes to War pretty much made this a "Yes, duh, can we please get on with it?" moment. :mad: Thanks so much BBC.

I did not see the shoe-switch coming. That was quite clever, fielding Amy and the others' prejudice like that.

At the end, I have to say the Doctor could have been more tactful in how he broke it to Amy. There was no rush--he could have taken a minute to explain it to Amy gently instead of scaring her out of her mind. I'm sure someone's going to make the argument that he didn't want to give anything away to her captors, but surely there are things he could have said that wouldn't have mattered.

I hope Cleaves is happy. Thanks to her being trigger-happy with her taser thing, she got almost her entire team and their copies killed, AND the Doctor. Way to go. But Jen was going to be an unstable evil thing regardless.

Again, this episode added to the inconsistency of the Doctor's medical capabilities. He didn't save Abigail, he just sat there while Rory's heart had stopped, and yet he can mix solutions together to save everyone in New Earth, genetically alter a whole species of Dalek-Human hybrid, and spontaneously come up with an oral treatment for a blood clot after psychically diagnosing it. :confused: I really wish we'd get a little more exposition on the Doctor's medical capabilities so it didn't seem like such a writing convenience where, if the character needs to die for the plot, the Doctor can't treat them, but otherwise he can.

And, oh, the ganger!Doctor. The first 15 minutes were pure GOLD with all the interactions between the Doctor, ganger!Doctor, and Amy, and the trauma that the ganger!Doctor was experiencing. So because of that, I can't begrudge the episode in its entirety. As I wrote in the Rebel Flesh episode, however, I was dreading how the episode was going to resolve because I hate every clone/double character story that ends with the mandatory contrived killing of one of them, and sure enough... I apologize that I am being overly-ranty, but this is a pet-peeve of mine, and I am angry that the episode went there, and so soon after I had to sit through SGU's version of the same crap. One, Cleaves and ganger!Doctor could have easily both run for the TARDIS, and yet to make the scene work they had to write it such that both Doctors were resigned to it being the only solution. Two, there was no need for them both to stay at the door, that was senseless killing of at least one of them. Three, the episode did not go far enough to make his sacrifice poignant or mourn the death of the Doctor. Amy was the only thing I liked about that scene. I could tell Matt Smith was doing the best with his material, but...Gah. [/rant]. The episode gave me enough good things that I can't hate it, but I can't like it either because of this.


Was I the only one who didn't notice David Tennants voice during the first time watching the freakout?


It wasn't obvious to me on first watch which Doctor it was supposed to be. I associate "Hello, I'm the Doctor" more with Nine then with Ten, so I thought it was supposed to be Nine.



btw, does The Doctor have a Sonic Screwdriver manufacturing plant in his inside pocket?

Actually there's a specific gizmo-a-bob on the TARDIS console that fabricates things and creates new sonic screwdrivers for the Doctor.

Archaeis
May 29th, 2011, 12:56 AM
Am I the only one who thought the Eyepatch Lady looked a lot like River in the last couple minutes?

sparklegem
May 29th, 2011, 02:04 AM
I just thought of another way to foil that 'someone needs to sacrifice to let the others get away' ending. They had the TARDIS, which has a bunch of stuff in it, right? Could they have just found some heavy objects in the TARDIS to block the door with?

And someone just pointed out an even more obvious solution: since the sonic screwdriver killed monster!Jenny before she reached Cleaves and ganger!Doctor, why didn't the real Doctor just do the same thing instead, and then he wouldn't have melted along with Jenny, and could have just walked back to the TARDIS. What the heck.

Am I the only one who thought the Eyepatch Lady looked a lot like River in the last couple minutes?
She definitely bears a resemblance to her.

huntress
May 29th, 2011, 06:28 AM
The episode was so so. Liked it when the gänger(!) doctor had the voice of Tom Baker for one short moment but the last five minutes were really the most interesting. I was satisfied that my theory regarding both the woman with the eyepatch and Amelia played out exatly how I thought. It wasn't really a surprise moment for me. More like "Aha - thought as much" moment which was equally nice.

BTW I do not think we have EVER seen the real Amelia through the whole series. I actually think that the Amelia from "The Impossible Astronaut" was already a Gänger. Why? Because she saw the lady with the eyepatch WHILE she was in the orphanage and before we saw her being captured and even then the woman was talking to someone else and saying "No I think she is just dreaming", it was also that little window like the piece of wall in the last two parter, which means that Amy was already in that tube like chamber! It might be very well, that Amy was stolen even before the "Impossible Astronaut" and everything we have seen so far have either been dreams of an Amy who was kept in stasis or something while her child grew inside of her or she is was linked to the Gänger who had all those adventures including the one with the Silence. If that is true, then it would be a pretty fantastic twist and mind game played by Steven Moffat. Also why were Rory and Amy at home when we saw them in the first episode. The last time we have seen them , they were travelling with the doctor, so we know some time has elapsed and Amy might very well have been kidnapped in one of those adventures in between.

Just a thought.
Next weeks episode looks epic but it sucks that it will be again a cliffhanger and that we will have to wait half a year for the series to continue :(.

Teddybrown
May 29th, 2011, 07:54 AM
Well, can't say I'm surprised at the ending. I know I've bemoaned this in another thread, but if you will allow me, I have to say that just unwitting reading the 1st sentence of the BBC description of a Good Man Goes to War kind of ruined this episode for me. I would have been ecstatic to see my theory (shared by many others) come to fruition, except that already having had it pretty much confirmed by reading "Amy is kidnapped" in A Good Man Goes to War pretty much made this a "Yes, duh, can we please get on with it?" moment. :mad: Thanks so much BBC.


I read the synopsis for episode 7 before this episode too.
Although Id contemplated Amy being a ganger, I thought she was going to be abducted this episode, even though I had my suspicions she had been taken before, I was genuinely suprised by the ending. So it wasnt really spoiled for me, it just made me wonder when shed be kidnapped and how.

Galileo_Galilee
May 29th, 2011, 09:07 AM
Sigh. I can't see this episode until next week. Because of memorial day.

The problem with doubles though is how can one be certain that they aren't just another double?

Archaeis
May 29th, 2011, 09:54 AM
Few plot points in the episodes that didn't quite add up to me.


1) If Amy was a ganger being remotely controlled from when/wherever she is right now, why didn't she become a self-aware one like the others during the solar storm?

2) Was there just randomly a second sonic screwdriver that the doctors were tossing around? It seems like a burdensome thing to carry 2 of, given how much bigger it looks than the last.

3) If the energy from the TARDIS stabilized the to people, why could ganger amy melt away?

4) Real doctor needs to ask for new shoes, but ganger doctor finds identical outfit?

Jonzey
May 29th, 2011, 11:01 AM
Few plot points in the episodes that didn't quite add up to me.


1) If Amy was a ganger being remotely controlled from when/wherever she is right now, why didn't she become a self-aware one like the others during the solar storm?

2) Was there just randomly a second sonic screwdriver that the doctors were tossing around? It seems like a burdensome thing to carry 2 of, given how much bigger it looks than the last.

3) If the energy from the TARDIS stabilized the to people, why could ganger amy melt away?


1) I'm guessing ganger Amy was different since she had the same consciousness as realAmy
2) I was not sure. I thought there were two. If there were it's a bit odd.
3) It stabilised them so they don't turn freakydeaky, I'd imagine they could still be melted.

PMN1
May 29th, 2011, 11:05 AM
And prequel
http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/videos/p00h74x2



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XStu5invINI&feature=related

DigiFluid
May 29th, 2011, 11:41 AM
2) Was there just randomly a second sonic screwdriver that the doctors were tossing around? It seems like a burdensome thing to carry 2 of, given how much bigger it looks than the last.
Time Lord pockets are bigger on the inside :p

Lahela
May 29th, 2011, 12:13 PM
Loved this ep to bits! I guessed that Jen was a Ganger, but did not guess that the Doctors had switched until his line about not being invited to his death. Loved the callbacks to the oldies too. :D

My son's theory is that Amy was switched when she was with the Silence in the bathroom. I think it works... I don't watch any trailers or read any spoilers, so I'll stick with that until I see otherwise. :)

Teddybrown
May 29th, 2011, 01:31 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XStu5invINI&feature=related

Lol, nice vid

At Lahela:
How would they have switched her in the bathroom scene?
We saw her go in, and out, although they did use their force of suggestion to make her go to the bathroom, they wouldnt have made her go there for nothing...
Thats even if it was the Silence who made the switch...
Next weeks episode doesnt look like it features the Silence, isnt really clear who the big bad is for next week...

Admiral Mappalazarou
May 29th, 2011, 02:30 PM
The episode was so so. Liked it when the gänger(!) doctor had the voice of Tom Baker for one short moment but the last five minutes were really the most interesting. I was satisfied that my theory regarding both the woman with the eyepatch and Amelia played out exatly how I thought. It wasn't really a surprise moment for me. More like "Aha - thought as much" moment which was equally nice.

BTW I do not think we have EVER seen the real Amelia through the whole series. I actually think that the Amelia from "The Impossible Astronaut" was already a Gänger. Why? Because she saw the lady with the eyepatch WHILE she was in the orphanage and before we saw her being captured and even then the woman was talking to someone else and saying "No I think she is just dreaming", it was also that little window like the piece of wall in the last two parter, which means that Amy was already in that tube like chamber! It might be very well, that Amy was stolen even before the "Impossible Astronaut" and everything we have seen so far have either been dreams of an Amy who was kept in stasis or something while her child grew inside of her or she is was linked to the Gänger who had all those adventures including the one with the Silence. If that is true, then it would be a pretty fantastic twist and mind game played by Steven Moffat. Also why were Rory and Amy at home when we saw them in the first episode. The last time we have seen them , they were travelling with the doctor, so we know some time has elapsed and Amy might very well have been kidnapped in one of those adventures in between.

Just a thought.
Next weeks episode looks epic but it sucks that it will be again a cliffhanger and that we will have to wait half a year for the series to continue :(.

Half a year? Are you in America? Because in Britain I'm pretty sure it's back in about three or four months.

P-90_177
May 30th, 2011, 04:45 AM
Few plot points in the episodes that didn't quite add up to me.


1) If Amy was a ganger being remotely controlled from when/wherever she is right now, why didn't she become a self-aware one like the others during the solar storm?

2) Was there just randomly a second sonic screwdriver that the doctors were tossing around? It seems like a burdensome thing to carry 2 of, given how much bigger it looks than the last.

3) If the energy from the TARDIS stabilized the to people, why could ganger amy melt away?

4) Real doctor needs to ask for new shoes, but ganger doctor finds identical outfit?


In regards to the screwdriver then it's quite possible that the TARDIS just made him a new one for him. It doesn't seem to take long for the Doctor to use up his screwdrivers so the TARDIS might even have spares.

Also the energy from the TARDIS did stabalise them but who's to say that the effect wasn't directed at Amy.

Finall as for the outfit, as was explained in the first episode, the flesh duplicates clothing as well.

Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble
May 30th, 2011, 09:00 AM
Better than last week, I liked the two doctors that was fun. I found it strange that the actions of the gangers were understandible as they were scared being humans yet shouldn't the same go for the actions of the humans towards the gangers.

PMN1
May 30th, 2011, 12:13 PM
Just a thought but could the sonic signal blocking be an area block or a directed block?

What if Rory is also a ganger but the Doctor needs him around for a while longer so tells him forcefully get move away?

Sealurk
May 30th, 2011, 01:03 PM
Just a thought but could the sonic signal blocking be an area block or a directed block?

What if Rory is also a ganger but the Doctor needs him around for a while longer so tells him forcefully get move away?

If Ganger Doctor's use of the Sonic is anything to go by, it's definitely an area block. I don't think Rory is made of Flesh though, I think the Doctor told him to get back because he wasn't entirely sure what was going to happen (and having seen Jen's Elastipunch in the previous episode, not to mention her monstrous form in this one, it's possibly not an unreasonable order) - especially since the Doctor specifically says the Flesh seen in this two parter was it in the early days. Who knows what the newer, presumably more advanced stuff is capable of?

wise one
May 30th, 2011, 01:18 PM
interesting, so the tardis was detecting a baby but also not in the ganger amy. the flesh story was boring apart from the last 2minutes

Replicator Todd
May 30th, 2011, 10:26 PM
I really enjoyed this second part compared to the first one. I heard 4 and 10's voice I think in the beginning! :D Love that! And that ending! Big surprise that slapped me in the face! I had no idea the Doctor's switched places either.

Spimman
May 31st, 2011, 08:42 AM
Better than last weeks episode, I will say the episode ended strong.

Nth Chevron
May 31st, 2011, 06:07 PM
interesting, so the tardis was detecting a baby but also not in the ganger amy. the flesh story was boring apart from the last 2minutes

Well it has been said the TARDIS is telepathic, if not, it must have other receptors by which to know its inhabitants, maybe Amy's subconcious was bleeding through from her real body and screaming she was pregnant whilst conscious ganger Amy was trying to say she wasnt. A little psychic interference there i think.

N.C

Ian-S
June 1st, 2011, 03:17 AM
The last scene gave the general impression that Amy didn't realise she was pregnant or anywhere other than with the Doctor, it was only when he disconnected the link that she woke up in the room and realised where she was, Matrix style.

I'm finding DW is much more adult orientated in it's stories this year, anybody else?

Pharaoh Hamenthotep
June 1st, 2011, 05:29 PM
The last scene gave the general impression that Amy didn't realise she was pregnant or anywhere other than with the Doctor, it was only when he disconnected the link that she woke up in the room and realised where she was, Matrix style.

I'm finding DW is much more adult orientated in it's stories this year, anybody else?

It definitely seems darker and less cheesy.. which can only be a good thing :cool:

P-90_177
June 1st, 2011, 05:30 PM
The last scene gave the general impression that Amy didn't realise she was pregnant or anywhere other than with the Doctor, it was only when he disconnected the link that she woke up in the room and realised where she was, Matrix style.

I'm finding DW is much more adult orientated in it's stories this year, anybody else?

I dare say it can't be described as a kid show any more. But that's what makes it much better. Doctor Who is always much better whne it goes dark and this is the darkest it's ever been.

Nth Chevron
June 2nd, 2011, 05:05 AM
Its about time, i was actually getting sick Tennants perpetuated "were in danger" only to be followed 45 minutes later by "now we arent"

N.C

Sealurk
June 2nd, 2011, 05:16 AM
I was just getting sick of Tennant :D. And to me, Doctor Who stopped being exclusively a kid's show quite some time ago. Maybe 'family' show describes it better, since it has such broad appeal.

Cold Fuzz
June 4th, 2011, 11:25 PM
I was just getting sick of Tennant :D. And to me, Doctor Who stopped being exclusively a kid's show quite some time ago. Maybe 'family' show describes it better, since it has such broad appeal.

Though I thought that Tennant was a wonderful Doctor, imo, think he's a little overrated. We had a great sense of closure with The Stolen Earth/Journey's End. He started wearing out his welcome with me by "Planet of the Dead" though. By "The End of Time" I was ready for Matt Smith to take the reins. After re-watching the Ninth Doctor's episodes recently, I put Eccleston virtually tied with Tennant, while Matt Smith is the one I like the best. :D His episodes have the most re-watch value for me personally. The dynamic he has with River, Rory, and Amy--especially when all four of them are together--is unique and special. I didn't get quite the same spark with the other companions. Chemistry between characters--and actors--is really difficult to pull off.

Galileo_Galilee
June 5th, 2011, 08:18 AM
The Doctor I like best is Tom Baker.

I liked Tennant, and I like smith, but I'm not too fond of Eccleston.

However, I don't think anybody noticed the double standard and possible hypocrisy on the Doctors' part in this episode.


He allowed the workers gangers to live, because life is sacred.

But he didn't allow ganger Amy to live.


Curious, that.


Also, for those who might not know, ganger is short for doppelganger.

In Norse mythology, a vardøger is a ghostly double who precedes a living person and is seen performing their actions in advance. In Finnish mythology, this is called having an Etiäinen, i.e., "a firstcomer". In Ancient Egyptian mythology, a "ka" was a tangible "spirit double" having the same memories and feeling as the original person. In one Egyptian myth titled "The Greek Princess," an Egyptian view of the Trojan War, a ka of Helen was used to mislead Paris of Troy, helping to stop the war. In some myths, the doppelgänger is a version of the Ankou, a personification of death; in a tradition of the Talmud, to meet oneself means to meet God.


And there's even more interesting stuff in this wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doppelganger

Professor_S
June 5th, 2011, 08:29 AM
This episode was pretty good. Middle of the road, as far as I'm concerned. The last couple minutes, of course, were intense (if a little predictable). But it definitely didn't blow me away. The whole ep was fairly predictable, including the Doctor swap. I have to say, though, it was a nice touch at the beginning when you could hear a couple of the previous Doctors!

Looking forward to the next ep!

SGalisa
June 5th, 2011, 10:45 AM
Few plot points in the episodes that didn't quite add up to me.
...
4) Real doctor needs to ask for new shoes, but ganger doctor finds identical outfit?


The shoes were created and programmed into the Flesh machine before the original shoes got melted down. Details, details... :D
The Doctor went into the castle and looked at the Flesh machine before the solar storm hit. It was then that he was communicating with the machine, and the machine with him, or at least with the sonic screwdriver that gave the Doctor all of the info he needed to know -- enough to plop his hand into the goo. Later -- The original Doctor's shoes got melted after he went to retrieve his TARDIS and discovered it sank almost all the way into the ground from the acid leak, which occurred after the Doctor got knocked off the rooster tower from the solar storm. Hope that helps. :)
Helps to see the story for the 2nd and 3rd times, too to catch all the little things missed on the first viewing round. :p


...
2) Was there just randomly a second sonic screwdriver that the doctors were tossing around? It seems like a burdensome thing to carry 2 of, given how much bigger it looks than the last.



Time Lord pockets are bigger on the inside :p

yep -- the Doctor's pockets are bigger on the inside. :)
That's been sort of established probably before Tom Baker's Doctor #4, but definitely during Doctor #4 pulling out more things out of his pockets than seemed possible to fit. There's a long-term (entire series old classic and new DW) running joke that what's inside the Doctor's pockets exist within another dimension, as well. :D



...

1) If Amy was a ganger being remotely controlled from when/wherever she is right now, why didn't she become a self-aware one like the others during the solar storm?



1) I'm guessing ganger Amy was different since she had the same consciousness as realAmy

Don't know the answer. Maybe she was specially designed not to do that. And *who* created her ganger double anyway?? The Silence? That was only speculation, unless the next episode establishes it as fact.


...

3) If the energy from the TARDIS stabilized the to people, why could ganger amy melt away?


The sonic screwdriver could be programmed to melt the even the Ganger Doctor, which it did. So, why not Amy? Sonic screwdriver overrides the TARDIS' stablizer control. Plus, maybe the TARDIS knew it was the only way to keep Ganger Amy around long enough, until the psychic connection to her real location needed to be severed. Remember-- the TARDIS is all-seeing of ALL time and space and dimensions at the same moment. ;)



...

3) If the energy from the TARDIS stabilized the to people, why could ganger amy melt away?



...

3) It stabilised them so they don't turn freakydeaky, I'd imagine they could still be melted.

Another question is can the puddle of goo be reprogrammed by the TARDIS to recreate the Doctor, thus the theory of a Ganger Doctor (another copy of himself) being killed in the beginning of The Impossible Astronaut ep, could still hold true??

Afterall, his body was burned (melted down?) in the middle of a lake, so it was not exactly visible what was actually happening from the shoreline.



However, I don't think anybody noticed the double standard and possible hypocrisy on the Doctors' part in this episode.


He allowed the workers gangers to live, because life is sacred.

But he didn't allow ganger Amy to live.


Curious, that.


Well it has been said the TARDIS is telepathic, if not, it must have other receptors by which to know its inhabitants, maybe Amy's subconcious was bleeding through from her real body and screaming she was pregnant whilst conscious ganger Amy was trying to say she wasnt. A little psychic interference there i think.

It's not necessarily a double standard, *IF* the Doctor conspired with the TARDIS and TARDIS with the Doctor if Ganger Amy was going to be a problem/threat to the existence of the real Amy. Ganger Amy had original Amy's consciousness, but was more or less a walking shell -- it was not established as a separate Amy, because Ganger Amy was created differently to confuse the situations with the Doctor and Rory.

Ganger Amy didn't really seemed too concerned that Rory took off with Jennifer, even tho it seemed Ganger Amy was seeing the compassionate nurse side of Rory being expressed, and just let him do his nurse-related work.

I still think this was a situation of Ganger Amy being created as a fully functioning shell with real blood (in the Pirate story), but she was existing mentally in a dream sort of state -- as has been hinted by the eye-patch lady in the season six opener ep's orphanage scene "ehh, she's just dreaming" -- and could thus be disconnected from the shell at any point in time/space. The TARDIS would see that. And it might also explain why the TARDIS favored Rory with giving him super-secret TARDIS codes over Amy (apart from liking males), during The Doctor's Wife episode.
;)

Dusk
June 26th, 2011, 04:19 AM
I love the way this show embraces a sense of belonging, loyalty and the ties that bind.

Also thought the monster Jennifer was freaky. I can imagine a few kids flipping a lid over those scenes.

Nth Chevron
June 28th, 2011, 04:09 PM
Heres a wondering question, if Amy was alseep and in a dream state at Demons Run, what happened when she slept in her dream state and dreamt?

How deep could this go before were talking becoming trapped in ones own subconscious?

N.C

Carter1994
June 29th, 2011, 12:29 PM
Someone just watched Inception, didn't he? :P

There's just two layers: Amy's consciousness was in her 'ganger (layer 1), so when she-as-'ganger dreamt, she was in another layer (2). When she awoke, she went back into "1". ;)

mi_guard
October 24th, 2011, 02:31 AM
so Amy told the flesh Doctor that she saw the real Doctor die, but as the two had switched, in fact she informed the real Doctor of his future death - did I get it right?

Alan
October 24th, 2011, 07:25 AM
so Amy told the flesh Doctor that she saw the real Doctor die, but as the two had switched, in fact she informed the real Doctor of his future death - did I get it right?

Yeppers. :)

mi_guard
October 24th, 2011, 11:45 AM
Yeppers. :)

:S that must have been a bit of a shocker for him

Alan
October 24th, 2011, 12:37 PM
:S that must have been a bit of a shocker for him

He hides things very well. He's secretive by nature.

Nth Chevron
October 25th, 2011, 02:30 PM
After commiting genocide against 2 of the higher races, you think a forshadowing about the Doctors death is going to phase him?

Even slightly?

N.C

maneth
June 13th, 2013, 10:50 AM
Interesting episode that posed more questions than it answered. Where is the real Amy?