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GateWorld
April 18th, 2011, 07:30 AM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s6/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/thedoctorswife1-160x120.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">DOCTOR WHO - SERIES 32</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s6/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">THE DOCTOR'S WIFE</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 3204 (604)</FONT>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0;">The Doctor is lured outside the universe by an entity that steals his TARDIS, putting the TARDIS matrix into the body of a human woman and tormenting Amy and Rory.</DIV>
<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s6/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Teddybrown
May 14th, 2011, 11:19 AM
Omg What an awesome episode!!!
Nice to see the old Tardis again, and is that what the Tardis looks like on the inside? All those tunnels?
Nice to see ther relationship between the Tardis and the Doctor
But this episode kinda stumps the theory of River being the Tardis, or does it? From what I can tell, I dont think River is the Tardis now, I think this episode derailed that theory.
Wonder what the Tardis meant when she said 'The only water in the forest is the River'
I liked this episode because it really showed the Doctors relationship with his Tardis, and also how much he loves it. Also nice to see that the Tardis wanted the Doctor to steal it

Quotes of the episode:
The Tardis talking about the Doctor calling her sexy
Fish fingers

Next weeks episode looks awesome
Looks like we will be seeing eye patch lady again

Sealurk
May 14th, 2011, 11:19 AM
Wow. Wow. Wowee wow.

Okay, new favourite episode, right there!

Admiral Mappalazarou
May 14th, 2011, 11:21 AM
One of the very best episodes. Will post a further review when I'm over it.

'The only water in the forest is the River' . . . :D

pbellosom
May 14th, 2011, 11:23 AM
Don't really have time to post now, but that was awesome and this in the You Know You're a Whovian When thread seems now hilarious in retrospect:


When you declare the Doctor/TARDIS as your OTP

Admiral Mappalazarou
May 14th, 2011, 11:25 AM
Don't really have time to post now, but that was awesome and this in the You Know You're a Whovian When thread seems now hilarious in retrospect:
I knew it was called the Doctor's Wife before viewing and I actually did consider one of the possibilities to be the TARDIS, although I didn't think they would give her a human body - thought it would be a different kind of metaphor - but so brilliant :D

pbellosom
May 14th, 2011, 11:35 AM
I knew it was called the Doctor's Wife before viewing and I actually did consider one of the possibilities to be the TARDIS, although I didn't think they would give her a human body - thought it would be a different kind of metaphor - but so brilliant :D

It was brilliant. As the Doctor said the TARDIS's soul disappeared, I annoyed all my house mates by loudly proclaiming "Well played Gaiman, well played." The whole episode was amazing, the only real complaints I have are that a) They've got rid of the swimming pool? and b) The scene that Gaiman said they had to cut with the Zero Room sounds like it would've been awesome even if it would've blown the whole season's budget.

I've not read the Times article that Moffat was complaining about, but I don't see how they could possibly not understand the episode, part of it's beauty was in it's simplicity.

It was great to see the old console room back, I do like the new one but this just reminded me how awesome Nine and Ten's really was. I prefer it. Also good that we've got cannon confirmation that the TARDIS is deliberately taking the Doctor off course when he's needed.

I guess all the theories about River being the TARDIS are blown out of the water though, can't see them doing the same basic story twice in a season.

Sealurk
May 14th, 2011, 11:40 AM
"Did you wish really, really hard?" Ha!

And the TARDIS deciding her name is Sexy, I loved that. I loved the idea that the TARDIS chose the Doctor just as he chose her, that she's fond of him and I especially love the "I always took you where you needed to go" line.

The idea that a junkyard is also a graveyard, especially when Idris talks so sadly about seeing the corpses of her sisters, is beautifully sad.

Oh, wow. Neil Gaiman must be allowed to write whatever he wants, whenever he wants. I honestly didn't think there could be a better Who writer than Moffat, but this...I'm going to watch this one again as soon as Confidential has finished.

Sakura
May 14th, 2011, 11:49 AM
It was pretty amazing to see how The Doctor reacted when The TARDIS called The Doctor her thief.... especally when The Doctor kept saying that he stole her to begin with.....

pbellosom
May 14th, 2011, 11:54 AM
Someone on another forum has just pointed out that it's now cannon that you can switch genders during regeneration

Admiral Mappalazarou
May 14th, 2011, 12:00 PM
Anyone else get a shiver after the Doctor fixed the Ood and suddenly got an outburst of old Time Lord distress signals? :D

'If you are recieving this message - Please help me - Send a signal to the High Council of the Time Lords on Gallifrey. Tell them that I am still alive!'

Alan
May 14th, 2011, 12:41 PM
Utterly fantastic and brilliant episode penned by Neil Gaiman and great performances from all the cast but ESPECIALLY from Matt Smith and guest star Suranne Jones!

Inspired writing to put the TARDIS within a walking, talking person and see the Doctor get to have a two-way conversation! Its always awesome stuff when more history gets added to this legendary shows near 50-year mythology! Loved it! :D

Zarius
May 14th, 2011, 12:50 PM
Well, it's finally happened, somebody finally wrote a "TARDIS as a living person" episode. The concept isnt new to the franchise (Compassion from the BBC Books), but many had pegged The TARDIS as being a prime candiate for the human upgrade sooner or later. The communion between Idris and The Doctor was top-notch tomfoolerly, amalgamating seriousness and odd ball banter, and House's psychological warfare on Amy and Rory was terrifying. I only wish more had been made and seen of House's patchwork family members, I wish more had been explored of the TARDIS Junkyard, I wish there had been an extra hour attached to their weird oddysey, but I'll take what I can get.

The cryptic warning about River got me thinking...does it relate to the present or the future...or/and the past? River's currently in a "forest" (the library datacore), perhaps the TARDIS knows how to get her out of one?

huntress
May 14th, 2011, 01:19 PM
The episode had the dirty, grimy steampunkish flavour of Underworld which I loved, we finally met the TARDIS AND we FINALLY saw the inside of the TARDIS! Neil finally did what many fans wanted to have for a long time now, a story that really deals with the TARDIS. I just loved it how the doctor bickered and fought with the TARDIS and I loved it that it was actually the TARDIS who stole the doctor, because she was bored and wanted to explore the universe LOL. I also loved how the House chased Amy and Rory around the TARDIS like rats and screwed around with their heads. It was like a big lazy predator bored out of his mind and then it got its ass kicked by the TARDIS ^_^

BTW I totally love the TARDIS as a person now. She is as wonderfully crazy as the doctor and how funny was it, that the TARDIS thinks that RORY and not Amy is the pretty one LOL also wasn't it great to see the older TARDIS control room? :hugs TARDIS of Nine and Ten:

Doctor: Amy this is my TARDIS and she is a woman :smiles:
Amy: Doctor, did you wish reeeally hard?
Doctor : Shuddup,I am not like that.
Amy: Hello I am ....sexy!
Doctor: Oooooh....still shut up.

Wasn't it wonderful that after 700 years of being together the TARDIS was finally able to say hello though the ending was a bit heartbreaking and I totally understood why the doctor - for the first time in this incarnation - cried. Oh last but not least - I think that the comment from the TARDIS - the one about the water in the forest is about River.

Lovely job Neil :claps hands: Looks like there is still a good writer in you, now can you please stop writing rubbish and writer another "Underworld" or "American Gods"? Thank you.

So final verdict: great stand alone story but I think this story would have been even better if it had been a two parter. There was so much potential in it, for example the three companions of the House and the junk yard

Blencathra
May 14th, 2011, 01:29 PM
I'm totally stunned by that episode. Absolutely amazing. I admit I cried at the Doctor & the TARDIS having to say hello/goodbye. Suranne Jones was absolutely wonderful as the personification of the TARDIS.

I totally agree with Sealurk - Neil Gaiman should be allowed to write episodes for Doctor Who whenever he wants.

I did laugh at the end though when it transpires that the Doctor makes Amy & Rory have bunk beds. I wonder who gets the top. :P

SGalisa
May 14th, 2011, 01:35 PM
I haven't YET seen this episode -- gotta wait another few hours, but I *LOVE* reading the theories about what River might be in contrast to what is known about the TARDIS
(per this episode =)..


One of the very best episodes. Will post a further review when I'm over it.

'The only water in the forest is the River' . . . :D

hmmm.... interesting. A mild reference to River Song? She is water to the forest.
I thought maybe she had something to do with the very channel river of time-travel itself -- in a sense, unless the river is turbulent waters of time that the TARDIS ventures thru.

And speaking of water, we know River killed someone she now holds very near and dear to her heart, but the name of the prison she is in is the STORMCAGE, where it really rains outside.. but perhaps on an even deeper level, this is another descriptive way of describing water in its relationship to the rivers in the forests (form of describing branches) of (possible alterations to the storms of) time itself..??

This is getting a bit too complicated, even for (me being) a believer in the MASTER WEAVER poem -- which describes the amazing designs within the fabric of each thread woven into tapestry of life and time itself. :D



Well, it's finally happened, somebody finally wrote a "TARDIS as a living person" episode...

The cryptic warning about River got me thinking...does it relate to the present or the future...or/and the past? River's currently in a "forest" (the library datacore), perhaps the TARDIS knows how to get her out of one?

another very good and interesting thought. :)
I forgot about the Library being termed as a *forest*... Forest in the Library..
QUOTE ---- 'The only water in the forest is the River' ...
and guess who's stuck in there..? River Song. ;)
*Verrrrrrrrrrrrrry* interesting, indeed. :p



It was brilliant. As the Doctor said the TARDIS's soul disappeared...

Her soul? Maybe its become embodied in or as "River Song"??


I guess all the theories about River being the TARDIS are blown out of the water though, can't see them doing the same basic story twice in a season.

Not necessary. I don't see the story being needed to be retold, but having River Song possibly being the TARDIS (or an external form of the TARDIS) proverbially blown "out of the water" so to speak -- what if she IS the water (life essence) that the river is composed of..?? and that's how she got her name "River Song"..?
---- The TARDIS knows the answer. :)
just an nagging thought. Love the poetic imagery there.. :D

Sealurk
May 14th, 2011, 01:37 PM
I too wish it had been a two parter, it would have been spectacular. Actually, part of me thinks a story this good could have made a good 'event' story, maybe some kind of television movie or special.

The TARDIS saying 'hello' at the end was brilliantly emotional and superbly acted by Matt Smith and Suranne Jones. We don't get to see his Doctor as that vulnerable that often (unlike Tennant...) but he does it so well it's even better when he does.

Slightly disappointed that the only new TARDIS interior we saw was a repetitive corridor, but loved the idea that the TARDIS archives all the control rooms.

I'm looking forward to the Series 6 soundtrack after watching this as well.

After this episode, I really hope Neil Gaiman has some part in the 50th anniversary special, or whatever Moffat has planned. Their styles seem to mesh nicely. I'm going to have to check out some of his non-Who stuff now!

flobo
May 14th, 2011, 02:03 PM
In 1978, one of my favorite episode was The Invasion of Time .
For the first time, we saw what is inside the tardis.

In the 80s after that, we saw more and more room.

I really hope this episode is the start of something for the new show, i loved bit but i'm very sad we didn't get to see the swimming pool and zero room again after so many years.
Screw what's out there, let's spend the episode exploring the tardis, i'd find that much more interesting.

Matt G
May 14th, 2011, 02:27 PM
1. Oh yeah...you have a new soul...wonderful...

2. Well the TARDIS would go insane if stuck in a human body.

3. House messing with Amy and Rory's heads...ugly.

4. Probably the most reckless I've seen the Dr.

Still very cool ep though!

kcatlantis
May 14th, 2011, 02:31 PM
Definitely one of my favorite episodes, if only they could make the TARDIS talk all the time now.

Billz
May 14th, 2011, 02:45 PM
I'll have to rewatch it tomorrow when my connection during iPlayer stream doesn't suck (very pixelated picture, had to stop and buffer a few times).

But great episode from what I could make out. Nephew (the Ood) was underused though. :(

(Missed it on TV as I didn't get back from work until 7:45pm)

Jonzey
May 14th, 2011, 03:12 PM
It would have been so easy for the episode to disappoint with a title like that. With all the theories spinning around about Time Lords returning and River Song, if it turned out to be neither it could have felt like a cheat. It didn't. It was amazing, definitely one of my favourites now. The TARDIS (sexy) was brilliant as were her interactions with the Doctor. The TARDIS has always had a sort-of character but this episode took it to the next level, so much so that thinking back on Davies' season finales when the TARDIS is cannibalised/dropped into lava etc that much more heartbreaking. I'd imagine it's not easy writing a story involving the shows entire mythos since the very beginning, least of all making it all fit, which made this episode all the more impressive- that in season 32 you can still tell a brilliant story about something which has been there since the very beginning.

P-90_177
May 14th, 2011, 04:04 PM
In terms of Idris being the TARDIS this was exactly what I expected. I always knew that the TARDIS would be just as dotty as the Doctor and the banter between them was wonderful.

Fantastic also to see that there were so many references to the old series. The fact that the Doctor stole his TARDIS, the telepathic thought boxes, the old tardis console and the fact that it can operate independantly from its shell when needed, even the fact that the hallways were those gleaming white walls and very retro loving.

I'm also hoping that we get to see House again at some stage. Like The Dreamlord he was highly menacing while also coming across as incredibly intelligent. Even if it did seem like he had been destroyed it would be a shame not to have such a wonderful adversary reused.

Additionally I have to say that any episode where we get to see the Doctor really quite angry is a treat. However I think in this one at the point where he realised he had been led into a trap, he wasn't just angry, he was on one big, seething, silent rage. Brilliant acting from Matt Smith there.

Although with a few people having commented on the acting of Matt Smith and Suranne Jones which I think goes without saying was magnificant, I'd like to make mention of Karen Gillan and Arthur Darvill who played that scene with the older, bitter, angry Rory brilliantly. As was Amy's reaction to seeing the hallway with the 'Kill Amy' signs everywhere. Which also I think was a brilliant way to kill time until they got the instructions to go to the old control room. :P

Also nice to see the old control room again........................................Still prefer the new one.

FennerMachine
May 14th, 2011, 04:19 PM
I have seen almost all bar about a dozen episodes of Doctor Who from William Hartnell onwards at least once.

This is one of THE best episodes ever!

knowles2
May 14th, 2011, 04:25 PM
Best episode of the season by far.

I love Sexy (Tardis.)

Love seeing a bit more of the Tardis, hopefully now they started they will continue to show us new sets in the future.

I wish we saw more of the grave yard and may be some stuff about the other time lords there and certainly more tardis ships.
Would love to have seen more of Sexy and the Doctor building the Tardis or even better repairing one of those huge ships instead.

I thought the scenes in the Tardis and House and Rory and Pond were brilliant and dark, was the darkest Doctor who of the season, possible of the entire show, so far anyway.

I hope this episode has consequences for Sexy and the Doctor and is not pushed under the carpet from now on.

The only bit I did not like was the skipping over the bits of science in this episode, why cant the Tardis talk, it would have been nice to get an explanation. An why not just have this being a mini bubble universe instead of the doctor just trying to dumb it down and failing yet again, they have done the same thing several times over the past 2 seasons, and it getting boring and tiresome. This is Science fiction so why not give us some science every once in a while. Apart from that it was pretty much a perfect episode.

Hope we see House again.

Nth Chevron
May 14th, 2011, 05:10 PM
You dont get much better than that in a Who episode tbh :)

We as fans traveled as far in what to speculate on now, as much as the Doctor and Sexy Idris travelled in their relationship :)

Words fail me on how good that episode was :'(

Oh and a little thing i thought up;

River-Water-Rain-Storm-The Doctor-Oncoming Storm

Song -TARDIS-played when the TARDIS possessed Idris for the last time, seemed a song not meant for that goodbye, a little out of place of you ask me.

So, does that mean River is either part TimeLord or part Gallifreyan?

or even part TARDIS, with the alternate timeine thing going on, is it not possible the TARDIS see's the future (as it is shown in this ep she sees the whole of time and space) finds River, see's his compatibility with the Doctor, the TARDIS killed House (Hugh Laurie cant be happy) which shows she has fighting will, River is a kick ass fighting machine at times with a tendency to threaten, the TARDIS concocts a series of events to bring River to life encompassing the TARDIS personality, but makes things a reverse timeline so the TARDIS will always see River and have a chance to bring about her and the Doctors partnership before its even happened :)

Like archiving things that havent happened yet :D

N.C

MattSilver 3k
May 14th, 2011, 05:45 PM
That was beyond awesome. I think, despite the Doctor and Idris being the main stars here, that Rory deserves some props - I lol'd when the TARDIS called him the pretty one. Freaky, freaky stuff inside the TARDIS corridors too. I mean, wow, the scribblings on the walls by the dead Rory hallucination were really, really, creepy.

But still, the star of the episode was the Doctor/Idris interaction, and it was as awesome as everybody else here already went on. So I won't, but... :D It was just :D.

Also, "Fear me, I've killed hundreds of Time Lords." "Fear me, I've killed all of them." I loved that line in the trailer and loved it even more now.

P-90_177
May 14th, 2011, 05:52 PM
Best episode of the season by far.

I love Sexy (Tardis.)

Love seeing a bit more of the Tardis, hopefully now they started they will continue to show us new sets in the future.

I wish we saw more of the grave yard and may be some stuff about the other time lords there and certainly more tardis ships.
Would love to have seen more of Sexy and the Doctor building the Tardis or even better repairing one of those huge ships instead.

I thought the scenes in the Tardis and House and Rory and Pond were brilliant and dark, was the darkest Doctor who of the season, possible of the entire show, so far anyway.

I hope this episode has consequences for Sexy and the Doctor and is not pushed under the carpet from now on.

The only bit I did not like was the skipping over the bits of science in this episode, why cant the Tardis talk, it would have been nice to get an explanation. An why not just have this being a mini bubble universe instead of the doctor just trying to dumb it down and failing yet again, they have done the same thing several times over the past 2 seasons, and it getting boring and tiresome. This is Science fiction so why not give us some science every once in a while. Apart from that it was pretty much a perfect episode. Hope we see House again.

The point in Doctor Who is that the science is too advanced for us mere earthlings to understand.

Professor_S
May 14th, 2011, 06:03 PM
Holy mother of brilliant fantastic epic episodes!!!! My new favourite episode. Hands down.

I've never read any Neil Gaiman, but after this episode, I'm going to go out and find me some Sandman comics. The writing was just excellent!

pbellosom
May 14th, 2011, 06:42 PM
I did laugh at the end though when it transpires that the Doctor makes Amy & Rory have bunk beds. I wonder who gets the top. :P

That was totally the best bit.




another very good and interesting thought. :)
I forgot about the Library being termed as a *forest*... Forest in the Library..
QUOTE ---- 'The only water in the forest is the River' ...
and guess who's stuck in there..? River Song. ;)




Whenever forests and River are mentioned in the same sentence I always think of Flesh and Stone, perhaps River and forests are linked on a more thematic level than at first appears...

Shpinxinator
May 14th, 2011, 07:39 PM
I've been thinking about the nature of House...and my mind kept going back to the same thing over and over...something that appears as green gas until it takes a form...feeds off Time Lords/Time Lord technology AND...refers to it's lackeys by family titles ...I'm wondering if it's related at all to the Family of Blood

Ian-S
May 14th, 2011, 08:35 PM
Well I've only one thing to say, the TARDIS is indeed sexy :)

(Don't tell the wife I said that!)

Admiral Mappalazarou
May 14th, 2011, 09:44 PM
I've been thinking about the nature of House...and my mind kept going back to the same thing over and over...something that appears as green gas until it takes a form...feeds off Time Lords/Time Lord technology AND...refers to it's lackeys by family titles ...I'm wondering if it's related at all to the Family of Blood

I doubt it. Similar effects are used, sure - but this creature managed to overpower and suck out the life force of a TARDIS within ten minutes of it landing (as well as take down hundreds of Time Lords). The Family of Blood were almost toyed with by a merciful Doctor because he knew that they were close to the end of their lives, whereas he geuinely didn't know what to do once the TARDIS was taken from him. Also the Family of Blood wanted to obsorb the 'life of a Time Lord', and House just wanted to use the TARDIS to get into the main universe (and then probably eat it as he had done the others).

My first theory on House was that it was a creature banished to that planet by the Time Lords a long time ago (similar to the devil creature in the Satan Pit), so long ago in fact that all records were wiped clean. Either that or it simply was not made public knowledge - Since the distress calls to the Council didn't seem to know what it was or where they were. Niether did the Doctor.

It could just be that the creature learned to possess Time Lord tech because simply so many had landed there (I expect many in an attempt to escape the fires of the Time War). That would explain how it managed to program the 'mail' device to track down another Time Lord. Also House himself didn't mention the Time War, so either the Time Lords who came to the junkyard asteroid either never mentioned it or he simply never listened to them or found it particularly important to him. He is proved if nothing but a self-serving creature after all, who likes to be entertained by those he considers his lessers (or Amy and Rory in this ep).

I'm curious to see the kids' reactions to this episode. It was so dark (particularly in the TARDIS hallway scenes, where Rory ages and then Amy finds a vandalised corridor with his skeleton in - as well as all of the graffiti about killing her). This was more an ep for the grown ups.

jameshawking
May 14th, 2011, 10:05 PM
I have a feeling that I highly dislike the implication that River=Amy at the end of this episode, or river being Amy's child.

Seriously.

"The only water in the Forest is River"? Oh come on. Don't be so blatantly predictable.

This connects both back to the Forest of the Dead from David Tennant and the Angels. I really just hope to God this is a red herring.


By the way, was anyone else highjly amused by the fact that "The Doctor's" enemy was called "House"?

Fandom Addict
May 14th, 2011, 11:56 PM
A brilliant episode! I loved the interation between the Doctor and the TARDIS as well as that comment about the bunkbeds. Poor Rory and Amy! This was one of my favourite episodes of all time. It was great to see the old Tardis control room. After watching the Confidential and see clips of Nine and Ten, it makes me want to watch them again now!

mr_kennedy
May 15th, 2011, 12:07 AM
Fantastic episode

I loved the bit with House, Rory & Amy....... He made Rory 4000 years old :lol: and his been waiting for Amy most of that time thats gotta piss any one off

Loved seeing the old Tardis interrior! :)

Destiny11
May 15th, 2011, 03:00 AM
Fantastic episode, with my new favourite line of the series;

She the TARDIS. And she's a woman."
"Did you wish really hard?"

Loved seeing the tardis and the exploration of the relationship between the doctor and the tardis. We all know the tardis is a living entity (its been stated a number of times) but it was great to actually see it. hope next weeks episode matches up

knowles2
May 15th, 2011, 03:24 AM
The point in Doctor Who is that the science is too advanced for us mere earthlings to understand.

i just get bord of it sometimes. It comes off more as the writers refusing to inject a bit of science into the show rather than it all to complicated for our little human brains. No matter how advance our technology evolve it seems.

For instant Tardus not allowing a personality or direct interactions for could have been explain pretty easily with it always turning against the occupants or simply bad things happen. An why not just have it a small bubble outside a big bubble, which actually would of made the dialog better in the show and is based on a real world theory. An I think it would have made the episode better.

I just getting bored of them not having a bit of science it would is suppose to be a science fiction show. An the writers always using the same techniques to avoid the science. It just makes the show a bit boring in places and repetitive.



By the way, was anyone else highjly amused by the fact that "The Doctor's" enemy was called "House"?

Not during the episode, but now I think about yes it highly amusing.

MattSilver 3k
May 15th, 2011, 04:18 AM
i just get borded of it sometimes. It comes off more as the writers refusing to inject a bit of science into the show rather than it all to complicated for our little human brains. No matter how advance our technology evolve it seems.

Kid's show. For children with a few bonus jokes for adults.

Alan
May 15th, 2011, 04:22 AM
Kid's show. For children with a few bonus jokes for adults.

FAMILY show. For children and adults alike with jokes for adults and kids alike.

knowles2
May 15th, 2011, 04:44 AM
Kid's show. For children with a few bonus jokes for adults. I think you are underestimating children intelligence if you think they could not understand those two concepts.

Tardis allow to speak because it goes wrong every time the time lords did it.
An we live in a big bubble and now we are in a small bubble nextdoor to the big bubble.

The writers do not exclude these points not because they kids cannot handle it, if they thought that they were that dumb they would not have written the two episodes of this series how they did, which were way more complicated than the two concepts above. Actually they did include the two above point but they clouded it by adding a load of unnecessary dialogue to avoid the science or ground ideas.

The reason the writers added stuff in to cloud those to stories is simply because Moffat does not do science in his shows and not because it to complicated for our poor little children heads.

An you do not do scene like we saw with Amy and Rory in the Tardis corridors if you are aiming the show at kids.

Blencathra
May 15th, 2011, 05:07 AM
Well as someone who actually has a kid, the scene in the corridor with Amy & Rory didn't bother her one little bit. My daughter is much more afraid of more tangible monsters - monsters that might be under her bed & grab her foot before she leaps into bed at night.

I agree with Mattsilver. Too much science would make her switch off completely. She watches for scares and laughs. She doesn't like emotional stuff (yuk, boys!! :P) or scientific jargon (too much like school :D)

PMN1
May 15th, 2011, 06:29 AM
The asteroid resembled a Borg Sphere.....

I wonder if I.D.R.I.S will end up standing for something?

Draygon
May 15th, 2011, 06:42 AM
Deinatly, DEFINTLY a corker of an episode!

Loved the references to old Who, and absolutely loved Sexy :D Its nice to hear the TARDIS giving the Doctor some banter :P

House messing with Amy's head was defiantly dark and creepy. To quote a poster on another site:

He died in Amy's choice, the Hungry Earth two-parter, almost died in the big-bang (Well, it was implied that he melted during the London blitz) ,and was "shot" by Canton after being... I dunno, electrocuted/popped by the Silent in DOTM/Impossible astronaut, then drowned in Curse of the black spot... C'mon, man. You're going to be sharing drinks with Daniel Jackson in the sci-fi afterlife if this keeps up!

Poor rory :P

The acting in this was truly something. Two scenes that stood out for me was the Doctor and Idris/Sexy as they looked over the Tardis Graveyard and Idris mourns the death of her sisters while the Doctor sees an opertunity to escape. The second was when Sexy and the Doctor finally said 'hello'. very moving.

Also, typical of the Doctor :P Giving companions bunkbeds :P Bunkbeds are cool.

Admiral Mappalazarou
May 15th, 2011, 06:45 AM
I agree with Mattsilver. Too much science would make her switch off completely. She watches for scares and laughs. She doesn't like emotional stuff (yuk, boys!! :P) or scientific jargon (too much like school :D)

Agreed. Shows like Voyager proved if anything that scifi jargon is not needed in scifi. It clogs up dialogue imo. Characters are saying trash when they ought to be explaining to the audience what is going on. Doctor Who gets around that by making the science far too advanced for humans and by making the only available scientist a mad Doctor who never plays by the rules set to him. :P It's one of the countless reason I adore this show - Even the little things make me happy.

Cold Fuzz
May 15th, 2011, 07:00 AM
Just finished watching this episode. Brilliant! Just before Idris finally faded away into artron energy, she said something to the Doctor that I couldn't make out. I reversed the scene on my DVR and activated the captioning. She actually said, "I love you." Wow.

jameshawking
May 15th, 2011, 07:04 AM
Also: was anyone else really disappointed/annoyed by the line that HYPED this episode up so much being thrown around so lightly at the end?

I'd assumed it would be at a point that would actually matter and make the villain seem more imposing...but it was at the end of the episode with the Doctor already well in the lead.

Admiral Mappalazarou
May 15th, 2011, 08:45 AM
Can't say I was. I'm finding it difficult to come up with any criticisms to be honest, other than the fact that they should have included all of Gaiman's ideas (although of course it would have extremely thinned the budget). The missing scenes sounded brilliant, especially his initial idea for the Doctor discovering all of the wrecked TARDISs.

Alan
May 15th, 2011, 08:47 AM
Just finished watching this episode. Brilliant! Just before Idris finally faded away into artron energy, she said something to the Doctor that I couldn't make out. I reversed the scene on my DVR and activated the captioning. She actually said, "I love you." Wow.

Yes, I caught that too whilst rewatching my Freeview recording but didn't catch it whilst watching as it went out live on TV for some reason. How I missed it first time I don't know because I was GLUED to the screen.

P-90_177
May 15th, 2011, 09:53 AM
Can't say I was. I'm finding it difficult to come up with any criticisms to be honest, other than the fact that they should have included all of Gaiman's ideas (although of course it would have extremely thinned the budget). The missing scenes sounded brilliant, especially his initial idea for the Doctor discovering all of the wrecked TARDISs.

This ^

SGalisa
May 15th, 2011, 11:37 AM
When Idris/Sexy (TARDIS) told the Doctor that the little boxes make you go mad, I thought it was an insanity issue, until I later realized it was probably more of an anger issue -- with the TARDIS/Sexy knowing the boxes were trapped Time Lords who have been murdered by House, with only their S.O.S. messages remaining behind. And the TARDIS/Sexy called the other decaying TARDISes her "sisters".
Interesting... that they were regarded as being "all she's" (motherhood figures of all of interdimensional nature..??).


Loved that the TARDIS/Sexy had the power within herself to kiss the makeshift TARDIS and give it breath from her own life. Interesting... :)
Tho, their entire short hop journey really could have used an internal stablizer instead of throwing the Doctor and Idris/Sexy all around the console.


I wonder if I.D.R.I.S will end up standing for something?

T.A.R.D.I.S. = Time And Relative Dimensions In Space

possibly Idris is a version of the TARDIS with the big I in front for ID (the id) or I.D.???
I.D.R.I.S. = I-am Dimensions Relative In Space :D


I thought Idris was the lady's name before she became the Doctor's TARDIS. Uncle referred to her as Idris, not the Doctor's TARDIS. And apparently, Idris's body shell was already dying the moment Idris' own soul left her body. The TARDIS was living on borrowed time, in that sense..

Question I'd like to know -- is how Idris got there still in one human-form piece without having her own soul removed prior to gaining the TARDIS' soul instead. Was she originally a time-lady turned into a housing shell for the Doctor's TARDIS's soul (and power source), with only a short lifespan of only 18 more minutes to live near the end?



Shows like Voyager proved if anything that scifi jargon is not needed in scifi. It clogs up dialogue imo. Characters are saying trash when they ought to be explaining to the audience what is going on. Doctor Who gets around that by making the science far too advanced for humans and by making the only available scientist a mad Doctor who never plays by the rules set to him. :P It's one of the countless reason I adore this show - Even the little things make me happy.

I like Doctor Who, because it's more fantasy / sci-fi... with a nice balance of both. ;)
Science based jargon programs often get me lost (science is not my field of study), since science words spoken upon occasion are nice, but not when done in excess. At least I can follow most of the show, without losing interest in sticking with it. And the idea that the Doctor rarely ever plays by the rules or reads instructions, that's what makes it more intriguing.
It's almost sort of like an in-joke for females about typical guys *NOT* reading instructions, until something goes wrong, and then it might be too late to fix whatever got missed in the (instruction manual's preferred) set-up. :D

Besides, if the series (any sci-fi/fantasy series, for that matter) focused more on SCIENCE based words *all* of the time, I would have no doubts that someone out there with a dislike for the program would nitpick *all* (or most of) the time, just because they disagreed with the use of the jargon being used and what it was used for.

Believe me, I see this happen all the time in the Star Trek forums by *know-it-alls* who feel they could do a better job with the scripts than what was presented by someone else. I found that very distressing when watching any of the Stargate series, and hearing about how certain jargon *was* being used or misused.. and just found myself refusing to read any of the commentaries after a certain point, when SGU was half-way thru its eps. :(

PMN1
May 15th, 2011, 11:58 AM
The Confidential programme was very good as well.

Nth Chevron
May 15th, 2011, 01:43 PM
Interesting... that they were regarded as being "all she's" (motherhood figures of all of interdimensional nature..??).

If you check out http://www.whoniverse.net/tardis/ TARDII can be either gender, i believe the male TARDII were leaders of herds of TARDII, which would mean they couldnt run off and explore like these did.

N.C

pbellosom
May 15th, 2011, 03:48 PM
Interesting... that they were regarded as being "all she's" (motherhood figures of all of interdimensional nature..??).


I just took that as a result of the ancient rule that all ships are female.

sparklegem
May 15th, 2011, 04:10 PM
Also: was anyone else really disappointed/annoyed by the line that HYPED this episode up so much being thrown around so lightly at the end?

I'd assumed it would be at a point that would actually matter and make the villain seem more imposing...but it was at the end of the episode with the Doctor already well in the lead.

Yeah, I can't say I was annoyed, but it lost a lot of its power in the context of the episode. For me, the problem was that the delivery of "Fear me: I have killed hundreds of Timelords" came so quickly after House's previous line that it kind of got breezed over, and didn't have the dramatic weight that it had in the trailers.

Pharaoh Atem
May 15th, 2011, 08:39 PM
I totally agree with Sealurk - Neil Gaiman should be allowed to write episodes for Doctor Who whenever he wants. :P

is he a freelance writer?

SaberBlade
May 15th, 2011, 09:01 PM
Wonderful episode. The Doctor has in the past talked about the TARDIS being alive and it's great to see this aspect of her given life. I loved seeing how similar the Doctor and TARDIS were. He is her Doctor, she picked him, she wanted to explore the universe.

I am also a bit surprised there was so much visual effects of the TARDIS' in space. I really did enjoy it and will definitely rewatch it soon just to absorb everything properly.

Spimman
May 16th, 2011, 05:45 AM
Wow, this episode was awesome! All of your comments have added to my understanding so thanks for that!

Replicator Todd
May 16th, 2011, 06:52 AM
Wonderful, just wonderful. Fantastic episode. I can't say enough good things! Most has already been said. I got chills hearing all the Time Lords and stuff, I didn't think we would actually see any but for a moment I thought we were going to meet another Time Lord that wasn't a enemy. :p

I got very excited to see 9 & 10's TARDIS console again.

Neil Gaiman fits with Doctor Who, i've been meaning to read his stuff forever. Especially Sandman and Stardust.

Fandom Addict
May 17th, 2011, 02:17 AM
BBC have posted Neil Gaiman talking about some of the lost scenes (http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/news/bulletin_110514_02) from the Doctor's Wife if anyone is interested.

I really wished they had left in the Planet of the Rain Gods scene, it would have been funny to see with the Doctor!

GeekFights
May 17th, 2011, 11:05 AM
Favorite line:
Uncle:Just keep back from this one. She bites!
Idris: Do I? Excellent! Biting's excellent! It's like kissing. Only there's a winner.

I loved this episode and am mostly trying wrap my head around the Tardis existing all at once (time-wise). Not worrying about that, I think this is the perfect time story-wise for us to be introduced to the Tardis. We know that big things are happening on the show (with River and Amy and the previous episodes) and sometimes it's easy to forget that the Tardis is more than a really really cool toy. This episode not only changed how the Doctor feels about her (confirming their relationship that was one of actions but no words previously) but how I feel as well.

mathpiglet
May 17th, 2011, 12:47 PM
I may be the only one, but I didn't like this episode much at all. I have tried, but I do not like the latest incarnation of the doctor as being to manic for my tastes. I've enjoyed Dr. Who for many years and I'm losing interest.

Alan
May 17th, 2011, 01:47 PM
Favorite line:
Uncle:Just keep back from this one. She bites!
Idris: Do I? Excellent! Biting's excellent! It's like kissing. Only there's a winner.

I loved this episode and am mostly trying wrap my head around the Tardis existing all at once (time-wise). Not worrying about that, I think this is the perfect time story-wise for us to be introduced to the Tardis. We know that big things are happening on the show (with River and Amy and the previous episodes) and sometimes it's easy to forget that the Tardis is more than a really really cool toy. This episode not only changed how the Doctor feels about her (confirming their relationship that was one of actions but no words previously) but how I feel as well.

Yeah, those lines you chose there were just some of the great ones to come out of this great episode! Not only did more wonderfully funny lines come out of this episode add to the massive list of unique Doctor Who humour but it also added more to the 50-year mythology and to the Doctor's back story with his TARDIS and even evolved his relationship with his great ship too! I certainly know that I won't ever look at that brilliant blue box in the same way ever again!

I truly hope Steven Moffat gets Neil Gaiman back to write more for Doctor Who! I think he's well-suited to writing for this show judging by this episode and I wouldn't be surprised if I wasn't alone in thinking that!

Blencathra
May 17th, 2011, 02:23 PM
I agree Alan, I'm not going to look at the TARDIS in the same way again either. That one episode has changed everything for me and so much more for the better. I mean we all knew the TARDIS was alive but how much? Well now we know and she's wonderful. :)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3505/5729473371_77d17d396b_o.gif

Sealurk
May 17th, 2011, 02:47 PM
I may be the only one, but I didn't like this episode much at all. I have tried, but I do not like the latest incarnation of the doctor as being to manic for my tastes. I've enjoyed Dr. Who for many years and I'm losing interest.

Really? Well, to each their own. Personally the Eleventh Doctor is easily, without a doubt, my favourite incarnation so far, and I suspect he will remain so until the end of the entire series, but I can understand that the manic aspect of his personality could be off-putting. After the (for me) all too human and (over) emotional Tenth Doctor, I love the renewed sense of him being alien, ancient and ever so slightly odd. :)


Yeah, those lines you chose there were just some of the great ones to come out of this great episode! Not only did more wonderfully funny lines come out of this episode add to the massive list of unique Doctor Who humour but it also added more to the 50-year mythology and to the Doctor's back story with his TARDIS and even evolved his relationship with his great ship too! I certainly know that I won't ever look at that brilliant blue box in the same way ever again!

I truly hope Steven Moffat gets Neil Gaiman back to write more for Doctor Who! I think he's well-suited to writing for this show judging by this episode and I wouldn't be surprised if I wasn't alone in thinking that!

Ditto. The reviews and appreciation for this episode have been near universal in their praise and often, adoration. My biggest problem with it is simple - it should have been a two-parter, at least! I've always had a soft spot for the TARDIS, even when I haven't particularly been taken with an incarnation of the Doctor, and I've often wondered how it perceives the Doctor, what he does, has done and evidently, will do. Not only will I never look at the TARDIS the same way again, I'll never look at old episodes the same way either!


I agree Alan, I'm not going to look at the TARDIS in the same way again either. That one episode has changed everything for me and so much more for the better. I mean we all knew the TARDIS was alive but how much? Well now we know and she's wonderful. :)

Previously I suspected the TARDIS was alive but so alien as to be near impossible to communicate with, that she or it had an intellect but that it was so vast, different, ancient and quiet, maybe even a little cold or disconnected because of it's nature as to simply not perceive the universe the same way as humans or even Time Lords. But now, I find I actually love the idea that the TARDIS wanted to see the universe and deliberately let the Doctor steal her. And I especially love that she is so fond of him - that scene where they talk for the very last time is going to stay with me for a very long time.

There is no doubt in my mind that this has become my all-time favourite episode of Doctor Who. It is also, in perhaps an odd way, the best advertisement for good fan fiction too!

Alan
May 17th, 2011, 03:11 PM
I agree Alan, I'm not going to look at the TARDIS in the same way again either. That one episode has changed everything for me and so much more for the better. I mean we all knew the TARDIS was alive but how much? Well now we know and she's wonderful. :)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3505/5729473371_77d17d396b_o.gif

Totally! No other show I know could give such a beautiful voice and personality to a ship in the way Doctor Who did with the TARDIS. The fact that they both stole each other away from Gallifrey to see EVERYTHING...its magical.


"I just want to say you know YOU have never been very reliable."

"And you have?"

"You didn't always take me where I wanted to go."

"No, but I always took you to where you NEEDED to go".

The bored Time Lord that wanted to see the universe and interact with the people he meets and help out when he can and the retired TARDIS that still had so much more life in her and still had so much more to see...what a wonderful partnership and great explanation for all these adventures! :)

GeekFights
May 17th, 2011, 09:10 PM
My biggest problem with it is simple - it should have been a two-parter, at least!

I disagree. I think that wrapping up the story succinctly, even when it meant leaving out all of the little bits that Gaiman thought through like Auntie and Uncle's backstories, was a good idea. I've read plenty of books where I could tell that the writer loved the world they created so much that they couldn't leave anything out and those books turn out with too much exposition (not that I'm saying that's the case, I'm just saying that Gaiman is probably used to not using all of the material he creates in the final product in order to maintain cohesion and pace).

I am all for the rest of the material being released as bonuses for fans who want it, but I think that the episode was wonderfully paced as is.

Also, I kind of like having jumping off points for other stories/fan fiction/etc. Implying House's history with Time Lords without going into details gave me tons of ideas for stories in that pocket universe.

rosey_angel
May 18th, 2011, 12:59 AM
Awesome episode. I was nervous when they put the TARDIS into the woman because I have always imagined what she would say to him, and I thought they might screw it up with canon. Lucky for me, she was every bit as I thought she would be. I always liked the idea that the TARDIS was kind of mother-Henning him. He always thought he was so good and she is obviously the star, and now they have shown that. More manic and odd then I thought, but that makes sense because she is an odd being in a human body. I love that she saw their leaving Gallifry differently; he thinks he stole her but in reality she stole him. And I love the line about her taking him where he needed to go. I read a fanfic once where the doctor complains that the TARDIS lever listens to his directions after he lands where/when he shouldn't have but Rose says that wherever they land they are needed. I like that they made that canon. I laughed out loud when the TARDIS incarnation is introduced and Amy says “did you wish really hard?” or something to that effect. And then her name – “sexy”. You just know there are going to be jokes about that later, when the scars have healed a bit.

I like the line about biting being like kissing only there’s a winner, similar to the 2007 Jekyll incarnation when referring to killing people “It's like sex. Only there's a winner”.

The only downside, and this is a very minor downside, is that they didn’t show more of the TARDIS interior. Amy and Rory were running through a lot of halls, I thought they might duck through the pool room, try to hide in the closet, run through the library, that sort of thing. But like I said, not a very big deal.

Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble
May 18th, 2011, 05:35 AM
The Best.

mizzoueng
May 18th, 2011, 06:45 AM
It was a great episode, I thought the noise the TARDIS made was a result of the equipment inside but now it looks like it is actually the voice/call of the TARDIS.

Funniest part for me was when they were arguing about the pull sign on door of the TARDIS. The Doctor always pushes it open and the sign clearly says "Pull to Open".

The TARDIS graveyard had to be the strangest thing. Each was very different and some even looked militant. Others looked built for speed (large thrusters, etc).

Alan
May 18th, 2011, 07:09 AM
It was a great episode, I thought the noise the TARDIS made was a result of the equipment inside but now it looks like it is actually the voice/call of the TARDIS.

Funniest part for me was when they were arguing about the pull sign on door of the TARDIS. The Doctor always pushes it open and the sign clearly says "Pull to Open".

The TARDIS graveyard had to be the strangest thing. Each was very different and some even looked militant. Others looked built for speed (large thrusters, etc).

Well there's different types of TARDISes. The ones in the graveyard were presumably more advanced that the Doctor's Type 40 Mk. I. I'm not surprised that there were some militant looking TARDISes in the graveyard though. The Time Lords would have needed Battle TARDISes and War TARDISes for the Time War against the Daleks.

The ones with the big thrusters could just very well have been TARDISes disguised as spaceships. The Master's TARDIS turned itself into a spaceship and even Concorde once but it doesn't necessarily mean that they'd operate like what they appear to look like. On the other hand...fighting a war would have required fighting outside of the space/time vortex so having some manoeuvrability and speed during actual space travel would have been a necessary thing so having thrusters would have been essential.

Blencathra
May 18th, 2011, 07:58 AM
It was a great episode, I thought the noise the TARDIS made was a result of the equipment inside but now it looks like it is actually the voice/call of the TARDIS.

Funniest part for me was when they were arguing about the pull sign on door of the TARDIS. The Doctor always pushes it open and the sign clearly says "Pull to Open".

The TARDIS graveyard had to be the strangest thing. Each was very different and some even looked militant. Others looked built for speed (large thrusters, etc).

I thought in one way she was right and in another she was wrong. Yes the sign says pull to open but I always thought that just meant the little door with the telephone inside. Aren't the big doors normally locked & could only be opened by a policeman with a key? Now I can imagine those would normally open outwards as the police would have had a desk and chair inside, so inward opening doors wouldn't be sensible.

Nth Chevron
May 19th, 2011, 07:04 PM
If some of them looked truly militant (whatever that means for a TARDIS with a chameleon circuit) then that would imply that House had semi-active hand in the Time-War - a possible connection for future use?

N.C

Coco Pops
May 21st, 2011, 08:39 AM
This Doctor is more Inspector Gadget then the Doctor and if you can't see that well then you can't see that... But he is funny. Just I hope this funniness doesn't drag on for too long or I'll dump this show it's becoming a stale joke.

OMG Idris was gorgeous...... I love the TARDIS woman...... It's a shame they can't give the TARDIS a voice...... Howcome House called her Idris yet she couldn't tell the Doctor her name was Idris?

She was lovely. ooh I'm in love..............

At least we know now that the TARDIS never takes the Doctor where he wants to go but where hs needed.... She knows having the time vortex inside her and all.. And that she stole him as much as he stole her from Galifrey..

Overall it's a great episode and there's a connection to the Library episode remember what Idris told the Doctor "There's only one river in the forest" "Forest of the dead" / "Silence in the library."


Oh and did you know that "Amy's Choice" from last season ties into this current series. Steven Moffat said so...

Coco Pops
May 21st, 2011, 09:02 AM
"Did you wish really, really hard?" Ha!

And the TARDIS deciding her name is Sexy, I loved that. I loved the idea that the TARDIS chose the Doctor just as he chose her, that she's fond of him and I especially love the "I always took you where you needed to go" line.



Did you catch the Doctor's reply when she said her name was "sexy" "only when we're alone" was ingenious and so quick

Nth Chevron
May 21st, 2011, 09:50 AM
OMG Idris was gorgeous...... I love the TARDIS woman...... It's a shame they can't give the TARDIS a voice...... Howcome House called her Idris yet she couldn't tell the Doctor her name was Idris?

Idris was the name of the girl before the TARDIS soul was put into her, House knew her by no other name.

N.C

pbellosom
May 21st, 2011, 04:26 PM
The best bit about this episode was the amazing Steam Punk goggles that the Doctor wore at the end. I actually saw a pair just like this in Cyberdog but they were far too expensive. When I came back sometime later they'd been sold, given the timings of this event and when the episode was filmed I like to think they were the same pair.

jameshawking
May 21st, 2011, 05:20 PM
Im just saying, Amy is Cool and all, and I like the fact that the companions are relvant....

but can we please get over the wank fest already? Even Rose wasn't so important to the story of the Doctor.

Alan
May 21st, 2011, 06:20 PM
Im just saying, Amy is Cool and all, and I like the fact that the companions are relvant....

but can we please get over the wank fest already? Even Rose wasn't so important to the story of the Doctor.

First off - Offensive.

Secondly - What has Amy got to do with this particular story?!?! It was to do with the relationship between the Doctor and his TARDIS.


This Doctor is more Inspector Gadget then the Doctor and if you can't see that well then you can't see that... But he is funny. Just I hope this funniness doesn't drag on for too long or I'll dump this show it's becoming a stale joke.

OMG Idris was gorgeous...... I love the TARDIS woman...... It's a shame they can't give the TARDIS a voice...... Howcome House called her Idris yet she couldn't tell the Doctor her name was Idris?

She was lovely. ooh I'm in love..............

At least we know now that the TARDIS never takes the Doctor where he wants to go but where hs needed.... She knows having the time vortex inside her and all.. And that she stole him as much as he stole her from Galifrey..

Overall it's a great episode and there's a connection to the Library episode remember what Idris told the Doctor "There's only one river in the forest" "Forest of the dead" / "Silence in the library."


Oh and did you know that "Amy's Choice" from last season ties into this current series. Steven Moffat said so...

The Doctor IS Inspector Gadget. He's the original Inspector Gadget. He was Inspector Gadget long before his eleventh incarnation. He was using gadgets and inventions (and getting them wrong) when Inspector Gadget was just a twinkle in the writers' eyes.

As for his funniness...his current incarnation hasn't been funny all the time. There's PLENTY of examples from both this series and the last one that show he hasn't been funny all the time because the situations haven't warranted humour.

jameshawking
May 21st, 2011, 06:29 PM
Amy's been brought up a total of 6 times on this page alone, Alan. Before I posted.

And, as you said, she had very little to do with the episode at all <<


The entire show is focused on her, even when the episode isn't, and it shows in the discussion.

Even the TARDIS itself is, we can reasonably believe, hyping up the importance of Amy.

Though the bolded term was more in reference to the show as a hole rather than the people in here.

Alan
May 21st, 2011, 07:47 PM
Amy is part of Doctor Who and in this story House was having mindgames played on her...of course people on the thread are going to mention her.

The entire show ISN'T focused on her. The entire show is focused on the Doctor, Amy, and Rory. It is focussed on TeamTARDIS and the secrets they hold from each other and how they'll come together and connect with the Doctor's death on the beach in Utah. THAT is what all the focus is on and that is what all the discussions I've seen have been about talking about the three of them.

YOU can reasonably believe. The TARDIS barely acknowledged Amy in this story. The Doctor's been checking out HIS pregnancy scan of her on the TARDIS scanner. And of course Amy is important because she is the third section of the bigger storyline in which the Doctor and Rory are just as equally involved with too.

Next time choose your words more carefully. And anyway - the WHOLE of any TV show is made up of the writers, the makers, the broadcasters, and we the viewers. The people who visit the Doctor Who threads ARE part of the show. We watch the show and we talk about the people involved in Doctor Who and Amy is part of that. What do you want us to do? Ignore her? If people want to talk and speculate about Amy and her part in Steven Moffat's grand-plan then by Gallifrey we will.

Coco Pops
May 21st, 2011, 08:09 PM
A couple of things...

Did anyone catch this line it was so quick? I got it but the moment went so fast.

When the Doctor asked the TARDIS lady her name before it was revealed she was the TARDIS she said "sex" and not "sexy" and then he very quickly said "only when we're alone"

And another thing that much publicised set of lines

House: "I've killed hundreds of Time Lords"
Doctor: "I killed them all"

Had no impact whatsoever. The episode was so fast and manic those ines were delivered so fast that they had zero impact.

Pharaoh Atem
May 21st, 2011, 08:28 PM
A couple of things...

Did anyone catch this line it was so quick? I got it but the moment went so fast.

When the Doctor asked the TARDIS lady her name before it was revealed she was the TARDIS she said "sex" and not "sexy" and then he very quickly said "only when we're alone"

And another thing that much publicised set of lines

House: "I've killed hundreds of Time Lords"
Doctor: "I killed them all"

Had no impact whatsoever. The episode was so fast and manic those ines were delivered so fast that they had zero impact.

that line was epic

jameshawking
May 21st, 2011, 08:32 PM
Amy is part of Doctor Who and in this story House was having mindgames played on her...of course people on the thread are going to mention her.You asked what she had to do with the story, and I answered -shrug-


The entire show ISN'T focused on her. The entire show is focused on the Doctor, Amy, and Rory. It is focussed on TeamTARDIS and the secrets they hold from each other and how they'll come together and connect with the Doctor's death on the beach in Utah. THAT is what all the focus is on and that is what all the discussions I've seen have been about talking about the three of them.
Missing pregnancy
Time-child
Eyepatch lady
Silent plans
Oh, and now the TARDIS can to be talking about her too.

The above even connect to the Doctor's death. The only real mystery not explicitly connected to her is River Song, who everyone is already saying is either Amy or her child :/

It's coalescing around her, Alan.



YOU can reasonably believe. The TARDIS barely acknowledged Amy in this story. The Doctor's been checking out HIS pregnancy scan of her on the TARDIS scanner. And of course Amy is important because she is the third section of the bigger storyline in which the Doctor and Rory are just as equally involved with too.Question:

What does Rory actually have to do with the story to date? His largest impact on the story so far this season is Amy's POSSIBLE baby-daddy. Oh, and being funny, to be sure.

What is this "third section of a bigger storyline" you're referring to? Even in the last season she and her time was the focus of the season's big problem since episode 4.


At least with Rose we didn't know that the season was about her until the very last moment, pretty much.

pbellosom
May 22nd, 2011, 02:37 AM
The entire show ISN'T focused on her. The entire show is focused on the Doctor, Amy, and Rory. It is focussed on TeamTARDIS and the secrets they hold from each other and how they'll come together and connect with the Doctor's death on the beach in Utah. THAT is what all the focus is on and that is what all the discussions I've seen have been about talking about the three of them.

Exactly, the three main characters are equal in standing, as it should be. The reason that people got annoyed by Rose was not because of the amount of screentime she got but more because the writers seemed to be treating her as The best person and ever and the only person who the Doctor will ever truly love when she was neither. Amy on the other hand is a well rounded character. The mystery happens to hang around Amy because past writers tried to hang the mystery around the Doctor and though they were awesome at the time, the constant revelations about him made him far less of a mysterious figure and drove the show to cancellation.

Besides, what would jameshawking prefer the companion to do? Stand around and scream while the Doctor solves all the problems and explains everything. That's not going to happen because 1) It would cause a PR disaster for the show 2) It would get very boring and 3) It would be rather out of character for this version of the Doctor to travel with someone who's not strong and independent.

jameshawking
May 22nd, 2011, 07:03 AM
PB: if you actually read what I wrote, I have no problems with Amy as a character.

I have problems with entire seasons, multiple big over-arching questions, and the murder of the Doctor, ALL being EXPLICITLY about her. Even the Silent are entirely about her, and every baddie in the universe used her as a trap for the Doctor (probably for a reason).

In comparison, the Doctor himself has very little going on thats not connected to her, and Rory has, frankly, absolutely nothing.

Coco Pops
May 22nd, 2011, 07:11 AM
PB: if you actually read what I wrote, I have no problems with Amy as a character.

I have problems with entire seasons, multiple big over-arching questions, and the murder of the Doctor, ALL being EXPLICITLY about her. Even the Silent are entirely about her, and every baddie in the universe used her as a trap for the Doctor (probably for a reason).

In comparison, the Doctor himself has very little going on thats not connected to her, and Rory has, frankly, absolutely nothing.


Actually Rory, poor Rory is the cosmic joke since they keep killing him, or nearly killing him...... I feel bad for Rory

jameshawking
May 22nd, 2011, 07:14 AM
Actually Rory, poor Rory is the cosmic joke since they keep killing him, or nearly killing him...... I feel bad for Rory

Exactly.

Amy is held as the epitome of a mystery itself and Rory is a cosmic joke :/

not even remotely equals

Galileo_Galilee
May 22nd, 2011, 11:52 AM
Rory is basically the Zeppo. Amy may love him, but she sure as heck doesn't NEED him. She'd be fine without him.

Alan
May 22nd, 2011, 02:07 PM
Just about Rory...like Rose Tyler before him in Series 27...his storyline may not be obvious right now but it could be ESSENTIAL by the end of this current series. He could very well end up being a sort of "Bad Wolf" and its been said by Matthew Graham that Rory has his place within the master plan. We are only now reaching the half-way point in this series so lets not put Rory out just yet. Just wait, watch, and let it unfold. Once Series 32 completes its run THEN comment on Rory's place in the grand scheme of things.

Stewart5
May 22nd, 2011, 04:21 PM
One of the best eps ever, imo. Love Surrane Jones as the Tardis. She was gorgeous, and everyhting about her was aweosme. :)
Some proper emotional stuff from Matt at the end of the ep, too. Great writing mr Moffat!

Coco Pops
May 22nd, 2011, 06:19 PM
One of the best eps ever, imo. Love Surrane Jones as the Tardis. She was gorgeous, and everyhting about her was aweosme. :)
Some proper emotional stuff from Matt at the end of the ep, too. Great writing mr Moffat!

As I said in my comments I fell in love with her.....I really did. She was gorgeous.

I loved that final interaction just before she faded away..... And just as she was vanishing were those final words "I love you?" I don't think they were audible..

Alan
May 22nd, 2011, 06:32 PM
As I said in my comments I fell in love with her.....I really did. She was gorgeous.

I loved that final interaction just before she faded away..... And just as she was vanishing were those final words "I love you?" I don't think they were audible..

I think she does indeed say "I love you". I never caught the words when it was airing live but I did when I re-watched it immediately afterwards. The Doctor's longest serving companion...his wonderful, beautiful, sexy TARDIS...loves him and I'm certain he loves her. Its an incredibly beautiful concept. As I said in an earlier post...the Doctor and his TARDIS complete each other. He wanted to escape...she wanted to travel...it is a perfect partnership.

Coco Pops
May 22nd, 2011, 07:21 PM
I think she does indeed say "I love you". I never caught the words when it was airing live but I did when I re-watched it immediately afterwards. The Doctor's longest serving companion...his wonderful, beautiful, sexy TARDIS...loves him and I'm certain he loves her. Its an incredibly beautiful concept. As I said in an earlier post...the Doctor and his TARDIS complete each other. He wanted to escape...she wanted to travel...it is a perfect partnership.

Did the Doctor also explain why the ship doesn't have a voice? because I think I missed that. I had a feeling he did but the episode was all so fast paced.... It would be nice if the ship occasionally spoke or if they could have her come "out" and walk with them once in a while.....Even if only as a hologram or such..

Sealurk
May 22nd, 2011, 07:48 PM
All he said was "Well, actually it's because the Time Lords discovered that if you take an eleven dimensional matrix and fold it into a mechanical - " and then he's cut off by Rory accidentally short circuiting a couple of wires, and finishes in exasperation that it's just "spacey wacey".

I think the idea was simply to offer the viewers confusing, nonsensical technobabble to make it sound like there is an extremely good reason why TARDISes cannot talk, but in the end they sort of settled for just saying "because that's the way it is".

Personally, I hope we don't see Idris or human TARDIS again, or at least not on a regular basis, because it would cheapen an otherwise wonderful, wonderful episode and development. I think the TARDIS being able to talk and walk should be a one off event, precisely because of how sad it is that she'll never do it again. It adds a lot more impact than if she were simply able to do it whenever she wanted.

Coco Pops
May 22nd, 2011, 08:17 PM
All he said was "Well, actually it's because the Time Lords discovered that if you take an eleven dimensional matrix and fold it into a mechanical - " and then he's cut off by Rory accidentally short circuiting a couple of wires, and finishes in exasperation that it's just "spacey wacey".

I think the idea was simply to offer the viewers confusing, nonsensical technobabble to make it sound like there is an extremely good reason why TARDISes cannot talk, but in the end they sort of settled for just saying "because that's the way it is".

Personally, I hope we don't see Idris or human TARDIS again, or at least not on a regular basis, because it would cheapen an otherwise wonderful, wonderful episode and development. I think the TARDIS being able to talk and walk should be a one off event, precisely because of how sad it is that she'll never do it again. It adds a lot more impact than if she were simply able to do it whenever she wanted.


I guess but it's also sad that she herself is now again "trapped in a box" so to speak...... Though he did ask for a sign of sorts that she heard him and I think Idris made that lever on the console move... At least I think that's what she did..

Ice Wolf
May 23rd, 2011, 06:55 AM
Loved the character of the TARDIS it was just as nuts as the Doctor. I wonder if somehow it's personality changes to match his when he regenerates.

I think it also explained a little bit of why the Doctor can somewhat pilot the TARDIS when it's meant to be operated by more than one person, in that it is the TARDIS doing a lot of the work. Also somewhat explained how after 900odd years the Doctor has never really learned how to navigate it properly.

Was great to see that they also finally got around to building some more of the TARDIS interior.

gateship15
May 24th, 2011, 06:29 AM
this is differently my fave episode so far. i love the tardis as human and i loved the fact that both the doctor and the tardis both think they stole each other lol.

Coco Pops
September 4th, 2011, 06:42 AM
I just watched this again and I have to say it's my FAVOURITE episode of this series......

Damn shame they can't give the TARDIS a voice box

jameshawking
September 10th, 2011, 01:11 PM
Note: She actually does say "I love you".

In the confidential they show the scene without the music and the background noise and its clear as day.

Coco Pops
September 10th, 2011, 04:37 PM
Note: She actually does say "I love you".

In the confidential they show the scene without the music and the background noise and its clear as day.

Thanks for confirming that.

It explains a lot, like when Rose had the time vortex inside her it was the TARDIS soul, the same thing Idris was. and she said "My Doctor"

Sealurk
December 23rd, 2011, 03:21 AM
I see the post-eater entity possessing GateWorld is alive and well. My own fault for not copying it before posting.

Basically, I love this episode, best of series 6, just wish ithad been the two parter rather than The Rebel Flesh/The Almost People even though they were more relevant to the overall plot arc of the series.

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
November 27th, 2012, 09:29 PM
Can't say I was. I'm finding it difficult to come up with any criticisms to be honest, other than the fact that they should have included all of Gaiman's ideas (although of course it would have extremely thinned the budget). The missing scenes sounded brilliant, especially his initial idea for the Doctor discovering all of the wrecked TARDISs.


This ^
These ^

...

Couldn't resist. :P But, no. Seriously. Those.

maneth
June 10th, 2013, 09:37 AM
Cool episode. Loved the talking TARDIS.