PDA

View Full Version : Day of the Moon (3202)



GateWorld
April 18th, 2011, 07:26 AM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s6/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/dayofthemoon-160x120.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">DOCTOR WHO - SERIES 32</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s6/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">DAY OF THE MOON</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 3202 (602)</FONT>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0;">The Doctor must escape the perfect prison and reunite his friends to come up with a plan to expose the Silence, a race of aliens that have been influencing Earth for millennia. Meanwhile, a small child may hold the key to saving the Doctor's life -- or ending it.</DIV>
<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s6/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Teddybrown
April 30th, 2011, 10:36 AM
Oooooommmmmmgggggg!!!!!!!
That was a pretty awesome episode!
But it throws up sooooooo many questions!
Who is this little girl?? Have the Silence really gone?? What was River going on about their kiss??

If thats the end of the Silence though, I thought that story would be drawn out more, but maybe it isnt the end of them...
Also, whos going to be the big bad of the season? It looks unlikely to be the Silence now, so who??

Ukko
April 30th, 2011, 10:38 AM
Awesomeness!!:D
This person you want to marry, black?

Yes, He is.:D Awesome!

And the little girl at the end, wasnt expecting that!:eek:

pbellosom
April 30th, 2011, 10:38 AM
Oooooommmmmmgggggg!!!!!!!

Is there anything more that needs saying? Wow.

Cronus
April 30th, 2011, 10:38 AM
Indeed. I think my mind just exploded :eek:

Sealurk
April 30th, 2011, 10:38 AM
Hoe.
Lee.
Frak.

Pharaoh Hamenthotep
April 30th, 2011, 10:41 AM
Awesomeness!!:D
This person you want to marry, black?

Yes, He is.:D Awesome!

And the little girl at the end, wasnt expecting that!:eek:

:eek:!! Indeed! :eek:

But now the question is.. Who is she?

Teddybrown
April 30th, 2011, 10:41 AM
Awesomeness!!:D
This person you want to marry, black?

Yes, He is.:D Awesome!
And the little girl at the end, wasnt expecting that!:eek:

I loled at that part, Nixons face afterwards!

Unfortunately, Id read part of a synopsis and saw the end bit with that written so knew it was going to happen =( But i forgot about that while watching the episode because it was so mind bogglingly awesome, so I wasnt expecting it at the end!

Also, prequel for the 3rd episode is now up!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/videos/p00gmybn

kirmit
April 30th, 2011, 10:43 AM
I'll be honest, that episode left me more confused than anything else.

Pharaoh Hamenthotep
April 30th, 2011, 10:44 AM
Unfortunately, I was expecting that because Id read part of a synopsis, and saw the end bit =( But i wasnt expecting it to end like that though.


Then you should stop reading them :p I like surprises :cool:

I doubt we've seen the last of The Silence though.. after all the build up in the last season.. they'll be back.. :weiranime42:

Admiral Mappalazarou
April 30th, 2011, 10:45 AM
That. Was. Gold.

Epic Whoness. Loved how the American national anthem started playing every time Nixon turned up.

I can see some of the kids getting confused, but somehow . . . I'm not caring about the kids. It was brilliant. An all-time fav. So many great lines! And what an ending!

Time Lord Girl! The Rani? No no, Amy's future daughter as suggested through the picture? But with Time Lord powers? So an Amy/Doctor baby? Or maybe a 'Timehead'? :D

Questions to be answered through the series;

- Why did the Doctor ask Canton as an old man to bring a tub of gasoline to their past selves?
- Why did the astronaut kill the Doctor?
- Who was the astronaut who killed future Doctor?
- Is the girl actually a Time Lord or some genetically engineered hybrid?
- Is the space suit alive? ("It's coming to eat me!")
- What was the 'Lodger' machine that the Silence were using?
- Who was eye-patch lady in the kid's room, before Amy steps in?

Ukko
April 30th, 2011, 10:46 AM
:eek:!! Indeed! :eek:

But now the question is.. Who is she?

River and the Doctors daughter perhaps? :eek:


Unfortunately, I was expecting that because Id read part of a synopsis, and saw the end bit =( But i wasnt expecting it to end like that though.

Also, prequel for the 3rd episode is now up!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/videos/p00gmybn

I havent read anything on the series, so its surprises all the way.:D

Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble
April 30th, 2011, 10:49 AM
Overall very good ep nice and epic. Does this mean the silence has fallen?

So is Amy pregnant or not? Who is the girl? Did she regenerate like a Time Lord?

Amy was in that photo with a baby so maybe that girl his hers but with Time Lord dad (the Doctor?).

Teddybrown
April 30th, 2011, 10:51 AM
Then you should stop reading them :p I like surprises :cool:

I doubt we've seen the last of The Silence though.. after all the build up in the last season.. they'll be back.. :weiranime42:

I didnt mean to read it lol
I hadnt realised it had moved onto Part 2 of the episode lol, it jumped between episode 1 and 2 (Most of the episode wasnt spoiled for me)
Im trying to avoid major spoilers now lol

I also dont think thats the last of the Silence
So many of the theories and questions we had in the Impossible Astronaut thread are still valid lol
This seasons going to have to explain so many things lol, but I reckon Moffats had his stories planned for awhile and some questions wont be answered this series

I also dont believe it was the Silence that created the cracks... So many questions to be answered lol

Sealurk
April 30th, 2011, 10:54 AM
That may actually have just become my all time favourite Who episode. I knew Moffat was a writing genius, but... :eek:

I need to watch it again before I can comment properly though. My mind is still trying assimilate everything.

pbellosom
April 30th, 2011, 10:55 AM
Loved Nixon's final scene, wish we could've seen Nixon actually being persuaded to join the team though. And really loved the way the Doctor kept producing him whenever he needed to.

Rory is the best companion ever. I love him so much. Was very annoyed at the whole "fell out of the sky bit" and will get very annoyed if we keep rehashing the Rory is convinced that Amy loves the Doctor thing, but I will confess to loudly squeeing when she called him stupid face.

River's final bits were heartbreaking, perhaps didn't need the "and a last" I think the facial expression from Alex Kingston got the message across well enough without the rather cheesy line, brilliant acting there.

The Silence are brilliant, I was slightly apprehensive after The Impossible Astronaut, they were scary but probably not worth the hype, then came today. They were terrifying, every time they looked at their hands and it was blinking, wow. I don't think any TV show has scared me so much since watching a certain Power Rangers when I was eight.

The way that the Doctor defeated them was genius. Complete and utter genius, Stephen Moffat I tip my hat to you. And yet at the same time I'm left wondering, the Empire of Silence has Fallen. We're missing something here.

And finally, the girl. So many unanswered questions. She's Amy's daughter (which incidentally means we've lost some months somewhere), the Silence have some reason for wanting her and she can regenerate. I refuse to accept she's the Doctor's child, I'm a die hard Amy/Rory shipper, but has it ever been explicitly been stated that only Time Lords can be given regeneration cycles? It could even tie in to that old piece of cannon that Time Lords don't have to be Gallifreyan and that humans can join their ranks.

Also, there seems to be some link to the Time Lords and the Silence, there's no way the design of their TARDIS is coincidence (what happened to it at the end? Did it go to the Lodger? That doesn't seem to tie in with the theory of the Silence being in the Doctor's TARDIS during that episode), perhaps they gave Amy's child a regeneration cycle somehow? I'm missing some part of the Big Picture here, but what? We still don't know the Silence's motives, why blow up the TARDIS? Why get humans to build a space suit? Why take Amy's Daughter? And how does it tie in to the scene by the lake? This isn't the last we'll see of Canton, that's for sure.

Also the final bit was hilarious. "Or we can just go off and have some adventures" and I'm left wondering what a Time Head is? Oooh, thought just struck me! What if Amy's right? What if travelling through time repeatedly while pregnant has done something to the baby? Given her regenerative powers? Caused her to be an object of interest to the Silence. I like this idea...

Edit: And in all the awesome I forgot something that might be important. The door of the girl's room, what was up with that? To my mind the woman looked like River with something on her face, but it was too quick to see. Also, I find it hilarious how the season 32 forum has got two episodes in it, and a third of the posts of season 27.

Puddle-Jumper
April 30th, 2011, 11:12 AM
Loved this ep..

Okay the girl in space suit.. what do we think? One of my friends was saying that at this stage steven moffat isn't going to be throwing in random timelords that aren't connected to the Doctor, but then again the Doctors daughter thing has already been done but not in proper detail but I was always hoping that Jenny would come back. Anyway me and my friend came to the conclusion that Amy was pregnant by a child with the Doctor, though they didn't have sex, the silents did it. That at some point the silents took her to america and she had the child but didn't remember it.. though the 2 months between her and Rory leaving the tardis and the letter and the 3 month gap wouldn't be enough for a full term birth. The silents could have gotten the Doctors DNA anytime and he wouldn't remember. As to why they were doing it, maybe they needed a pilot for their TARDIS, like the ship needed in the lodger? But the silents seemed to be getting on grand working it, but they weren't trying to fly it.


Im more curious about why the silents were in 2011 when the Doctor dies.. Revenge?

Teddybrown
April 30th, 2011, 11:30 AM
It wasnt really explained why they took Amy, so maybe thats going to be answered later.
Maybe they did something to her while she was captured, they seemed to have taken her for a reason.
And as Puddle Jumper said, if the Doctor defeated the Silents in 1969, why was there one at the beginning of The Impossible Astronaut
Also, the material they were building the Doctors prison out of, that didnt seem like human technology...
So many questions!!!

Also, it seems quite a few people are interested in Amy because SPOILERS
In episode 7, doesnt Amy get taken by the cybermen and the Doctor and Rory go after her?

It was also nice to see the Doctor talk to Rory about his centaurion memories. It seems some things are being mentioned for a reason, what with Amy saying shes pregnant etc etc.

Was the Doctor doing a pregnancy test on Amy on his monitor, it looked like he was scanning her for something

Argh! So many things happened this episode, definately need to rewatch it later!

Zarius
April 30th, 2011, 11:33 AM
I sincerly doubt the girl is The Doctor and Amy's child, and once again, people thinking this are falling straight into Moffat's hands and stating what DW never is...the obvious.

I'm also convinced they simply reused the prop from "The Lodger" for budgetery reasons, I could be wrong though, simply because The Doctor didnt seem to care about it. ("say, this looks familiar")

Canton being gay was telegraphed in the first episode, the joke didnt need to be repeated twice.

***

Tanith0709
April 30th, 2011, 11:44 AM
I'm also convinced they simply reused the prop from "The Lodger" for budgetery reasons, I could be wrong though, simply because The Doctor didnt seem to care about it. ("say, this looks familiar")

Should of watched Dr Who Confidential :)

Moffat mentioned in it that they used that set on purpose. That at the end of "The Lodger" there was always the question of "what about that ship?" and this was one the the times where they answer questions later on.

Lahela
April 30th, 2011, 11:49 AM
Oh.my.gawd.

Oh, Doctor... you blow my mind. Every time.

So many laughs, so many -hide-behind-my-hands moments, so many questions answered but a hundred-fold raised!

Absolutely perfect TV. :D

knowles2
April 30th, 2011, 11:50 AM
Wooo I like the way the silence created there own timelord, make sense they have created there own tardis so why not create there own time lord to go along with it. An pond is it mother. Any one betting that Amy was kept prisoner way longer than a few days.

Of cause this is not the end as we clearly see they can manipulate time and can time travel they would have known the Doctor plan all along and that why they created there own little time lord or not so little as the case may be now. I suspect they will be back.

An I sincerely hope that not the way the silence are defeated, because that was pitiful and will make them most overhyped enemy well since last time the Doc encountered the Daleks.

So that the last time Song shall meet the Doctor until the Library I am guesting.


Overall the episode was alright but thought the beginning was far to muddle, and with explanation through the rest of the episode, for instant where did Americans that impenetrable material from. How did the team escape from the silence from last week.
However it was better than the mess that was last weeks,

Just thought it possible that the Doc told the geeks at Area 51 how to create the prison he built.

An also just remember we know there still one silent left at least, the one in the prison in Area 51

Alan
April 30th, 2011, 11:54 AM
My god that was mind-blowingly BRILLIANT and oh so clever!!! Loved it!!! Well done to everyone involved for producing an awesome 2-part opening story!!!

The Doctor - Clever, clever Doctor! What an ingenious solution to revealing the Silence to the world! Very clever resolution to this 2-parter! But the big question - Is he still destined to die at the hands of that astronaut on the beach? If not, HOW does he escape that destiny?

Amy - Is she pregnant? Isn't she? Look forward to seeing which it is!

Rory - Is his future with Amy secure?

River - WHO IS SHE????

The Little Girl - Who is she and....holy Gallifrey...she's REGENERATING???? :eek:

Lots of great questions that need answering. As the Doctor himself said once "Time will tell. It always does."

Mr Evil 37
April 30th, 2011, 11:57 AM
I sincerly doubt the girl is The Doctor and Amy's child, and once again, people thinking this are falling straight into Moffat's hands and stating what DW never is...the obvious.

I'm also convinced they simply reused the prop from "The Lodger" for budgetery reasons, I could be wrong though, simply because The Doctor didnt seem to care about it. ("say, this looks familiar")

Canton being gay was telegraphed in the first episode, the joke didnt need to be repeated twice.

***

Moffat confirmed on Doctor Who Confidential that the TARDIS-like set in "Day of the Moon" is the same type of device in "The Lodger."

knowles2
April 30th, 2011, 12:01 PM
Just want to add there may be no one in the suit, the suit could move by itself.

Blencathra
April 30th, 2011, 12:05 PM
I can't even begin to say what I loved about that episode. Absolutely amazing!! Questions answered and still more to intrigue.

I LOVE Doctor Who. *happy sigh*

Mr Evil 37
April 30th, 2011, 12:26 PM
Questions answered? Did you watch the same episode I did?

:P

Zarius
April 30th, 2011, 12:30 PM
Should of watched Dr Who Confidential :)

Moffat mentioned in it that they used that set on purpose. That at the end of "The Lodger" there was always the question of "what about that ship?" and this was one the the times where they answer questions later on.

Ah thanks...usually don't watch Confidential

Zarius
April 30th, 2011, 12:30 PM
So that the last time Song shall meet the Doctor until the Library I am guesting.

No, he still has to take her on one last trip before she embarks on her fateful mission to the library..remember, she doesnt know she's going to die there until her moment of self-sacrifice.

pbellosom
April 30th, 2011, 12:46 PM
So that the last time Song shall meet the Doctor until the Library I am guesting.



Nope, she's still got be there at the opening of the Pandorica and go through the crash of the Byzantium, just the last time she kisses him. From this point on for her, he does not know who she is to him

Do we actually know River died? Did we see her body? If she was the girl, could she have regenerated after the Doctor saw her die?

Teddybrown
April 30th, 2011, 01:03 PM
Nope, she's still got be there at the opening of the Pandorica and go through the crash of the Byzantium, just the last time she kisses him. From this point on for her, he does not know who she is to him

Do we actually know River died? Did we see her body? If she was the girl, could she have regenerated after the Doctor saw her die?

We saw her in that other world, where her other team mates were, so she could have been uploaded but also regenerated, but its unlikely that the little girl is her.

Who else thought the River jumping off the building and landing in the pool was a nice touch? Nice to see the swimming pool again.

Cant wait for the rest of this season now, more clifffhangers..., more answers... and more awesomeness!!

Also, at the end, the Doctor was doing a pregnancy scan on Amy, and it got a result but it didnt show us, what do we think the answer was, yes or no??

knowles2
April 30th, 2011, 01:09 PM
Nope, she's still got be there at the opening of the Pandorica and go through the crash of the Byzantium, just the last time she kisses him. From this point on for her, he does not know who she is to him

That what I meant, I was talking about her future time line from this point forward is the exhibition and the Silence in the Library.

knowles2
April 30th, 2011, 01:10 PM
No, he still has to take her on one last trip before she embarks on her fateful mission to the library..remember, she doesnt know she's going to die there until her moment of self-sacrifice.

Yes. But this is the last time she meats the doctor before that The Silence in the Library events.

The next time our doctor meets her will be sometime in her past from this point forward in the Doctor Timeline.

At least that what it seem like to me at the end of the episode.

Admiral Mappalazarou
April 30th, 2011, 01:42 PM
Yes. But this is the last time she meats the doctor before that The Silence in the Library events.

The next time our doctor meets her will be sometime in her past from this point forward in the Doctor Timeline.

At least that what it seem like to me at the end of the episode.

In Forest of the Dead River says 'Last time I saw you, the real you, the future you I mean, you took me to see the Singing Towers . . .' or something similar. They have more days ahead of them yet.

knowles2
April 30th, 2011, 01:59 PM
In Forest of the Dead River says 'Last time I saw you, the real you, the future you I mean, you took me to see the Singing Towers . . .' or something similar. They have more days ahead of them yet.

She said the real you, I suspect that Doctor, Rory and Amy may not be themselves anyway, I am thinking they been reprogrammed to do the Silent bidding. Which would be a twist on those worlds. The real you is a strange use of words anyway.

An it can be use to make my theory right this is Song last time of seeing the Doctor before the Silent of the Library. :vala:

Admiral Mappalazarou
April 30th, 2011, 02:04 PM
She said the real you, I suspect that Doctor, Rory and Amy may not be themselves anyway, I am thinking they been reprogrammed to do the Silent bidding.

:confused: . . . So you think the Silence wanted the human race to revolt against them?

knowles2
April 30th, 2011, 02:13 PM
:confused: . . . So you think the Silence wanted the human race to revolt against them?

Why not, it be a twist if that exactly what the silent wanted would not it. After all the moon landing was suppose to be all there idea, so why not the rest of it.

An what better than a enemy out smarting the Doctor for once.

sparklegem
April 30th, 2011, 02:17 PM
Also, whos going to be the big bad of the season? It looks unlikely to be the Silence now, so who??

I'm sure we haven't seen the last of the Silence because we still don't know why they were trying to destroy the entire universe in the S5 finale.

First, before I go into a bunch of theorizing, let me just say that I am SO happy about how they treated Rory's memories of 2,000 years. Because it allows him to have this weird character trait if he has the burden of remembering things every once in a while without having to completely redo his character because he is now a 2,000 year old man. If they'd just had him flat remember, I would have been complaining to no end because he would be a completely different character, wiser than any other human on the planet, certainly not your average joe hanging around a flat watching TV.

Like everyone else, my mind is blown, and as everyone pointed out there are a lot of unanswered questions, but let me try to put a few pieces together:


Theorizing

First of all, do the Silence have time-traveling abilities? I'm not sure we can make that assumption, and this is one of the most burning questions for me. I'm very confused about their technological ability. It was stated that they are parasites, and they needed to convince humans to go to the Moon just so they could gain the technology for a spacesuit, and yet they added all their own technology to make it a completely closed and self-sustaining unit--photosynthesis and everything. What? Could they really be capable of building their own Time Engine, or is that Lodger time engine something that they 'leeched' from another race?

Clearly the girl is very important to the Silence. As a Timelord, or at least someone with regeneration powers, could she be the one that they 'leech' the Lodger Tardis and time-travel technology from?

Clearly they were also interested in Amy, and said that she was part of their plans. I can see two theories regarding this, but I think #1 makes a lot more sense: 1) They were bringing to fruition in Amy this weird quantum pregnancy that evidently exists and doesn't exist at the same time according to Tardis sensors, or 2) After loosing the child, Amy was the next best thing for their purposes because of similar genetics?

Another clue that this episode gave us was the reveal that the Silence are capable of "post-hypnotic suggestion". I think most of us presumed in the Impossible Astronaut that, when the Silent told Amy to "tell the Doctor what he must know, and what he must never know" that he was talking about the older Doctor dying on the beach, and that Amy displaced that command to 'tell the Doctor' with the fact she was pregnant. Now, however, I believe that is exactly what the Silent wanted her to tell the Doctor.

Now given that in the White House restroom scene, the Silent didn't specifically didn't tell Amy to tell the Doctor that she was pregnant, than either they'd already impregnated her at that point (so back in 2011??) rather than when she was captured toward the end of the episode, if indeed the Silence are actually responsible for her pregnancy, or they'd already given her the post-hypnotic suggestion that she was pregnant even if she wasn't.

So, the bottom line:
It seems like the Silence have been setting up and cultivating Amy's pregnancy and the raising of this little girl. Which makes sense--that's what they do: they manipulate other species for their own benefit. But why? Is it so that the child will advance their technology to the point where they can explode the Tardis? What is their 'Silence Will Fall' endgame and why would they want to destroy the universe?

On the completely ridiculous side, I like to think that the Silence are serving the Master and that the little girl is his reincarnation. Yes, you heard me. The Master is planning to be birthed from the Doctor's companion. I mean, "the sound of drums" and "silence will fall"? Too perfect.

pbellosom
April 30th, 2011, 02:24 PM
:confused: . . . So you think the Silence wanted the human race to revolt against them?

I'm slightly leaning towards that. They did seem to want Silence to Fall after all, and it occurs to me that we never actually saw the characters working out that there was a monster which they couldn't remember or even what happened after Amy shot the spaceman. Given that that was the last time Amy knew she was pregnant, I'm thinking that the characters were given a lot of post-hypnotic suggestion.

Admiral Mappalazarou
April 30th, 2011, 02:24 PM
Just want to add there may be no one in the suit, the suit could move by itself.

Sorry just seen this.

I actually thought this too, but it doesn't sit right if you rewatch - The Doctor turns to the astronaut when he confronts it and says 'It's okay - I know it's you.'

He gets shot moments later.

Admiral Mappalazarou
April 30th, 2011, 02:25 PM
I'm slightly leaning towards that. They did seem to want Silence to Fall after all, and it occurs to me that we never actually saw the characters working out that there was a monster which they couldn't remember or even what happened after Amy shot the spaceman. Given that that was the last time Amy knew she was pregnant, I'm thinking that the characters were given a lot of post-hypnotic suggestion.

Hmmm. It's a jump, but I'm still sceptic on this theory. I'll sleep on it.

sparklegem
April 30th, 2011, 02:34 PM
:confused: . . . So you think the Silence wanted the human race to revolt against them?

That's a really interesting idea. I do agree that there might be going on with the first 3 months of the episode where we were only shown brief jumps of scenes before they all ended up back in Area 51.

Can anybody answer the following for me: if the Doctor had the President's support the whole time, then why didn't he get Nixon to break him out of Area 51 so he and co. could have properly investigated who the Silence were with the Tardis instead of leaving said co. to run around for 3 months investigating themselves while he sat around (quite uncomfortably) in Area 51?

knowles2
April 30th, 2011, 02:40 PM
The first question should be how did he get to Area 51 in the first place.

pbellosom
April 30th, 2011, 02:41 PM
That's a really interesting idea. I do agree that there might be going on with the first 3 months of the episode where we were only shown brief jumps of scenes before they all ended up back in Area 51.


Also, when did the Doctor end up in Area 51 and why? Why do they want the Silence to think Canton has turned against them?

padr49904
April 30th, 2011, 02:49 PM
That was amazing! What was up with Amy's pregnancy, the Tardis was saying positive and negative, could it be in flux?? Looks like no answers with next weeks episode though.



So that the last time Song shall meet the Doctor until the Library I am guesting.

Actually she has to meet him again in order to get the screwdriver.

Teddybrown
April 30th, 2011, 02:55 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/videos/p00gnx68
http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/videos/p00gnx5k

Trailers
Looks like we are having a break from the major storyline
But there could be underlying clues in these episodes...

Sealurk
April 30th, 2011, 02:57 PM
So, watched it again and finally took (most of) it all in. My thoughts, as they come to me:

Rory just gets better and better as a companion, and the 'stupid face' thing was quite nicely handled. It's also good to see him become increasingly supportive of and comfortable with the Doctor after his original (and somewhat understandable) antagonistic and cautious attitude towards him.

River is increasingly awesome, and ably demonstrates how bad ass she actually is, while the end scene with the Doctor is at once predictable and yet genuinely a little sad, although I don't think her relationship with the Doctor is quite as simple as each of them moving backwards through the other's life.

The little girl regenerating...that was unexpected and a real jaw-on-the-floor moment. Can't wait to see how that pays off. Can't decide if she is full or part Time Lord or if the regeneration is something else entirely. Somehow I suspect her ability to regenerate is tied to Old Eleven's death and maybe River's statement that there are empires that would tear the world apart just for a single cell of his being. Part of me wonders if Moffat is so good at planning ahead that she actually has something to do with the Doctor coming to the end of his regeneration cycle...

The TARDIS on the side of the building with the doors open to the swimming pool was a great touch. It's nice to see Moffat can preserve a sense of wonder regarding this ancient, alien, advanced machine and still come up with new abilities for it.

Schrodinger's Pregnancy? Interesting development.

Mark Sheppard was great to watch and his odd turn to the dark side had me a little intrigued. The 'joke' about his character's marriage fell flat though, because New Who as a series is so open minded it was obvious. So much so that it didn't occur to me that the problem Canton alluded to might be that it would have been a mixed race marriage complete with all the problems that would bring in Sixties America.

Moffat is clearly a fan of the long game when it comes to seeding hints for arcs, and I absolutely love this about his writing. I also love how he manages to combine humour and horror, often in the same sentence, without it feeling remotely jarring.


Or, in other words: absolutely brilliant episode.

Matt G
April 30th, 2011, 03:00 PM
1. OK, being stuck in 1969 for three months would be less than ideal, presume Canton was under pressure from elsewhere to pull those stunts.

2. Very nice stunt from the Dr.

3. That wasn't the US national anthem, that was "Hail to the Chief".

4. I doubt we've heard the last of the Silence, just that humanity is going to be hammering them pretty regularly.

5. The kid is clearly a timelord though hell if I know how it came to be.

Solid stuff.

danmcken
April 30th, 2011, 03:25 PM
Just finished watching on iplayer the last two episodes have been some of the best scifi television i have ever seen . The Silence were like somthing out of a bad trip

PMN1
April 30th, 2011, 04:26 PM
4. I doubt we've heard the last of the Silence, just that humanity is going to be hammering them pretty regularly.

Solid stuff.

Well, at least one is still alive to see the Doctor getting shot.

Teddybrown
April 30th, 2011, 04:32 PM
Well, at least one is still alive to see the Doctor getting shot.

One always gets away... lol
Their prominence across the world has probably decreased, but I reckon more than one survived...
We will have to wait and see.

Ian-S
April 30th, 2011, 04:32 PM
I give up trying to second guess the Moff!

Teddybrown
April 30th, 2011, 04:34 PM
I give up trying to second guess the Moff!

I just do it for fun now lol. I know my wild and wacky theories will probably be wrong...

DigiFluid
April 30th, 2011, 04:37 PM
One liiiiiitle bitty thing that bugged me.... The bit at the end was "6 Months Later", right? The Moon landing was in late July 1969. So 6 months later would be late January--and there wasn't a flake of snow to be seen in that scene.

Other than that though, another thoroughly awesomeness episode. Tons of things addressed with a whole bunch more questions raised :eek: Can't wait for more!!

PMN1
April 30th, 2011, 04:42 PM
That may actually have just become my all time favourite Who episode. I knew Moffat was a writing genius, but... :eek:



Well, he's done this non linear thing before with Coupling...but only on an episode basis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coupling_%28UK_TV_series%29

An absoulutely hilarious series.

Sealurk
April 30th, 2011, 04:52 PM
Well, he's done this non linear thing before with Coupling...but only on an episode basis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coupling_%28UK_TV_series%29

An absoulutely hilarious series.

Yep, I remember it fondly (if somewhat vaguely). I think I may have the boxset gathering dust somewhere...

Pharaoh Atem
April 30th, 2011, 06:58 PM
I can't even begin to say what I loved about that episode. Absolutely amazing!! Questions answered and still more to intrigue.

I LOVE Doctor Who. *happy sigh*

Exaclty how i feel.

this episode was amazing simply amazing.

Spimman
April 30th, 2011, 07:38 PM
I won't rehash the questions still remaining, I'll just say I CAN'T WAIT for part 3!

rosey_angel
April 30th, 2011, 07:38 PM
awesome episode--well done to everyone involved.

i don't know why people are referring to C3 outting himself as a joke that fell flat. I didn't think it was a joke in the first place. I don't think it was meant for laughs, it was just a piece of character history, letting us know that there is more to this man than what we've seen on screen. I guessed that he was gay in the first ep, but another friend of mine guessed the african american thing. so yeah, I don't think they were trying for laughs and it bombed.

i didn't see the regen at the end coming. so trippy. i wonder if she will just regen and fix herself like Genny (Jenny) or change how she looks completly. If she can change like the doctor, then could we have seen her before and not known?...

I really wanted C3 to follow them into the TARDIS and become a companion. he is so awesome, mark a sheppard is one of my favourite actors in the world. I wonder if he and the doctor will meet up again or if he got more info in his letter (he knew to bring the oil, he said that it's the real doctor (i wonder if the doctor told him to say that ))

anyhoo, excellent ep. I'm loving reading everyone's theories here.

Pharaoh Atem
April 30th, 2011, 07:42 PM
Assuming the theory that river is amy's daughter maybe that's why the doctor was acting odd during the kiss maybe (being timelord) he noticed something similar to amy's kiss from series 5?

granted i'm all confused right but i thought i'd throw it out there.

Spimman
April 30th, 2011, 08:01 PM
River's reaction to hearing that was the first time the Doctor had kissed her kinda made me sad, it seemed to hit her pretty hard!

Pharaoh Atem
April 30th, 2011, 08:04 PM
River's reaction to hearing that was the first time the Doctor had kissed her kinda made me sad, it seemed to hit her pretty hard!

she's edging closerr to 'silence in the library

boxvic
April 30th, 2011, 09:29 PM
This was a pretty awesome episode... though the impatient part of me is screaming that I want closure NOW!

So... Amy is having some sort of quantum pregnancy... the bigger question to me isn't if the little girl is Amy's daughter but what is up with Amy's pregnancy. Put me firmly in the "it isn't The Doctor's child unless it was artificial" camp, because after this episode I really believe that Amy is truly in love with Rory and only see's The Doctor as a friend.

The little girl regenerated. My off the wall theory on that? It is a brief future regeneration of The Doctor himself. I don't really have anything to support that but it was the second thought that jumped into my mind after it could be Amy and Rory's child influenced by Rory's 2000's years waiting. I think some people who believe it is Amy's child are putting too much emphasis on the Amy aspect and not enough on the Rory aspect. I mean he still has, though buried, the memories of living for 2000 years- and I don't think that conversation with The Doctor about it was just thrown in there to fill time.

Rory is one of my favorite sci-fi characters right now, because he is seemingly just a normal guy. He isn't a soldier, or a super smart scientist, or anything like that. Just a guy along for the ride with the woman he loves and another guy he is starting to become a good friend with.

That said, I really think he is going to be the one that ultimately plays some big part in all of this.

DigiFluid
April 30th, 2011, 09:34 PM
I'm just going to throw this out there: what if Amy's pregnancy is a result of Silence meddling in order to create their own Time Lord?

Consider:
due to the nature of the Silence, the Doctor wouldn't have to remember any medical procedure
the Silence held Amy, in their homebrew TARDIS for some amount of time and we don't yet know why
the TARDIS was flashing between positive and negative....the TARDIS is also alive, and may be affected by the Silence in ways as yet unknown
the 'homemade' TARDIS in The Lodger last year wouldn't work until it had a proper pilot, vis a vis the Doctor, but then he was too much for it. Perhaps a Time Lord 'diluted' with human DNA would do the trick

This has been Wild Theory #23492

MattSilver 3k
April 30th, 2011, 09:55 PM
I'm going to skip theorising. My head will hurt too much.

Awesome, awesome, episode was awesome, awesome.

Cold Fuzz
April 30th, 2011, 09:57 PM
I'm just going to throw this out there: what if Amy's pregnancy is a result of Silence meddling in order to create their own Time Lord?

Consider:
due to the nature of the Silence, the Doctor wouldn't have to remember any medical procedure
the Silence held Amy, in their homebrew TARDIS for some amount of time and we don't yet know why
the TARDIS was flashing between positive and negative....the TARDIS is also alive, and may be affected by the Silence in ways as yet unknown
the 'homemade' TARDIS in The Lodger last year wouldn't work until it had a proper pilot, vis a vis the Doctor, but then he was too much for it. Perhaps a Time Lord 'diluted' with human DNA would do the trick

This has been Wild Theory #23492

I like your theory Digi. Here's a corollary to it: How about if the Silence mentally conditioned the little girl to kill the Doctor?

jameshawking
April 30th, 2011, 10:08 PM
I'm sure we haven't seen the last of the Silence because we still don't know why they were trying to destroy the entire universe in the S5 finale.

First, before I go into a bunch of theorizing, let me just say that I am SO happy about how they treated Rory's memories of 2,000 years. Because it allows him to have this weird character trait if he has the burden of remembering things every once in a while without having to completely redo his character because he is now a 2,000 year old man. If they'd just had him flat remember, I would have been complaining to no end because he would be a completely different character, wiser than any other human on the planet, certainly not your average joe hanging around a flat watching TV.

Like everyone else, my mind is blown, and as everyone pointed out there are a lot of unanswered questions, but let me try to put a few pieces together:


Theorizing

First of all, do the Silence have time-traveling abilities? I'm not sure we can make that assumption, and this is one of the most burning questions for me. I'm very confused about their technological ability. It was stated that they are parasites, and they needed to convince humans to go to the Moon just so they could gain the technology for a spacesuit, and yet they added all their own technology to make it a completely closed and self-sustaining unit--photosynthesis and everything. What? Could they really be capable of building their own Time Engine, or is that Lodger time engine something that they 'leeched' from another race?

Clearly the girl is very important to the Silence. As a Timelord, or at least someone with regeneration powers, could she be the one that they 'leech' the Lodger Tardis and time-travel technology from?

Clearly they were also interested in Amy, and said that she was part of their plans. I can see two theories regarding this, but I think #1 makes a lot more sense: 1) They were bringing to fruition in Amy this weird quantum pregnancy that evidently exists and doesn't exist at the same time according to Tardis sensors, or 2) After loosing the child, Amy was the next best thing for their purposes because of similar genetics?

Another clue that this episode gave us was the reveal that the Silence are capable of "post-hypnotic suggestion". I think most of us presumed in the Impossible Astronaut that, when the Silent told Amy to "tell the Doctor what he must know, and what he must never know" that he was talking about the older Doctor dying on the beach, and that Amy displaced that command to 'tell the Doctor' with the fact she was pregnant. Now, however, I believe that is exactly what the Silent wanted her to tell the Doctor.

Now given that in the White House restroom scene, the Silent didn't specifically didn't tell Amy to tell the Doctor that she was pregnant, than either they'd already impregnated her at that point (so back in 2011??) rather than when she was captured toward the end of the episode, if indeed the Silence are actually responsible for her pregnancy, or they'd already given her the post-hypnotic suggestion that she was pregnant even if she wasn't.

So, the bottom line:
It seems like the Silence have been setting up and cultivating Amy's pregnancy and the raising of this little girl. Which makes sense--that's what they do: they manipulate other species for their own benefit. But why? Is it so that the child will advance their technology to the point where they can explode the Tardis? What is their 'Silence Will Fall' endgame and why would they want to destroy the universe?

On the completely ridiculous side, I like to think that the Silence are serving the Master and that the little girl is his reincarnation. Yes, you heard me. The Master is planning to be birthed from the Doctor's companion. I mean, "the sound of drums" and "silence will fall"? Too perfect.



......Brilliant

DigiFluid
April 30th, 2011, 10:32 PM
I like your theory Digi. Here's a corollary to it: How about if the Silence mentally conditioned the little girl to kill the Doctor?

Not bad at all!

boxvic
April 30th, 2011, 10:45 PM
I just also want to point out, that the Jeep Wrangler at the beginning of the episode was a more modern Jeep. The Wagoneer is pretty accurate for 1969, but the Wrangler wasn't introduced until the 80's. I assume it was supposed to be a government issue Willy's of that era, but it was clearly a Jeep.

Doesn't really affect anything, and I'm not the type of person who is upset by unintentional anachronisms, but it was pretty obvious.

boxvic
April 30th, 2011, 10:56 PM
I take back my last post, apparently it was a modified CJ. Still out of place for a government vehicle.

Admiral Mappalazarou
April 30th, 2011, 11:39 PM
Just occurred to me, and sorry if this has been suggested already, but could the little girl be River?

It's just that there was that whole scene in the opening episode where she says that the Doctor appeared to her when she was younger (but I know - it's a bit of a jump) and knew everything about her (next episode with the girl in, maybe?).

It only occurred to me when I remembered Moffat saying that River's identity would be revealed this series, I'm guessing all or most of it in episode 7 (before it retires until autumn).

Sealurk
May 1st, 2011, 12:09 AM
the 'homemade' TARDIS in The Lodger last year wouldn't work until it had a proper pilot, vis a vis the Doctor, but then he was too much for it. Perhaps a Time Lord 'diluted' with human DNA would do the trick

This has been Wild Theory #23492


I like your theory Digi. Here's a corollary to it: How about if the Silence mentally conditioned the little girl to kill the Doctor?

Both excellent ideas. Early (ish) morning theory: maybe it isn't the genetic make-up that's the problem, but the knowledge and experience. The Doctor has nine hundred years of intense, varied memories that could cause some kind of overload, whereas the little girl would have substantially fewer, closer to a blank slate.

I really should let myself wake up properly before posting...

sparklegem
May 1st, 2011, 12:44 AM
......Brilliant

Thanks! We'll see how it actually plays out.


I'm just going to throw this out there: what if Amy's pregnancy is a result of Silence meddling in order to create their own Time Lord?


That's along the lines of what I was thinking, too! Not too wild of a theory, in my opinion. :)


the TARDIS was flashing between positive and negative....the TARDIS is also alive, and may be affected by the Silence in ways as yet unknown

Neat idea! I have to say I am extremely amused by the idea of the TARDIS scanning the pregnancy, then forgetting it found Amy was pregnant the minute it stopped scanning, and then discovering it, and forgetting it, etc. LOL

Flyboy
May 1st, 2011, 02:15 AM
Why does everyone think River is moving closer to the Library, each time we see her, from our perspective, she's moving further away from the Library...

Sealurk
May 1st, 2011, 02:21 AM
Why does everyone think River is moving closer to the Library, each time we see her, from our perspective, she's moving further away from the Library...

Because she isn't dead. It's been established that every time the Doctor meets River, it's an earlier version of her, and vice versa. She's due to die in Forest of the Dead, something she's expecting and dreading because of what it means for the Doctor. Personally I don't think it is quite that simple, rather that their back to front time lines are more of a trend than an absolute, or else synchronising their diaries would be much simpler.

Mr Evil 37
May 1st, 2011, 02:35 AM
The Doctor and River move in opposite directions. His first meeting with her will be her last meeting with him, and vice versa. Because in Day of the Moon they had never kissed, that River is getting closer and closer to the Library. We'll know when it's time for her to go to the Library when the Doctor gives her his screwdriver.

flobo
May 1st, 2011, 02:47 AM
Fantastic episodes to start Matt Smith's second season.
So many mind-blowing moments, from the Doctor's "death" in part 1 to the little girl regeneration at the end.

Plus the silence are just as scary as the weeping angels, a very nice break from the daleks/cybermen/master cycle.

I loved Matt Smith as the doctor in series 5, but thought the storyline were lacking a bit. But those two episodes finally went right back to tennant-era awesomeness in my opinion. I hope the rest of the season can follow well.

Sealurk
May 1st, 2011, 02:48 AM
The Doctor and River move in opposite directions. His first meeting with her will be her last meeting with him, and vice versa. Because in Day of the Moon they had never kissed, that River is getting closer and closer to the Library. We'll know when it's time for her to go to the Library when the Doctor gives her his screwdriver.

Except that should already have happened if they simply move in opposite directions - at some point between Forest of the Dead and The Time of Angels, the Doctor should have taken her to see the singing spires and handed her his screwdriver.

It's things like this that make me think it just isn't as simple as each travelling through time in reverse relative to the other. Moffat has far too good a grasp of time travel and its uses to do that.

Flyboy
May 1st, 2011, 02:48 AM
The Doctor and River move in opposite directions. His first meeting with her will be her last meeting with him, and vice versa. Because in Day of the Moon they had never kissed, that River is getting closer and closer to the Library. We'll know when it's time for her to go to the Library when the Doctor gives her his screwdriver.

Each time we meet River, she's younger. Until the Doctor decides to deliberatly go out of whack and find the version of her right before the library, each version we encounter is FURTHER away from the library, as the River in Time of the Angels was the closest one to the Library...

DigiFluid
May 1st, 2011, 02:53 AM
I don't think the reverse thing is absolute though, just general.

If you'll notice in Part 1, River is wearing a Vortex Manipulator--presumably the same one that she 'acquired' in The Pandorica Opens. That would place this two-parter after the end of last season, but apparently before the Angels episodes. Of course that doesn't explain why she's back in prison at the outset of TIA, but there's still stories to be told :)

Incidentally we also already knew that it couldn't be ABSOLUTELY in reverse order, because River said at one point that he must've known it would be their last time together when he showed up and took her out to do something or another.

Blencathra
May 1st, 2011, 03:02 AM
River's time line makes my brain ache. God only knows how the Moff keeps it straight in his head. Perhaps he has a chart or something?

So am I getting this right? From our perspective, River is moving away from the Library. But from River's perspective she's moving closer. That means that sometime soon, the Doctor will take her to the Singing Towers and give her his screwdriver. ???? No that's not right. HELP!


Just occurred to me, and sorry if this has been suggested already, but could the little girl be River?

It's just that there was that whole scene in the opening episode where she says that the Doctor appeared to her when she was younger (but I know - it's a bit of a jump) and knew everything about her (next episode with the girl in, maybe?).

It only occurred to me when I remembered Moffat saying that River's identity would be revealed this series, I'm guessing all or most of it in episode 7 (before it retires until autumn).

I think that the young girl is River as well. I'm also coming to believe that River is Amy & Rory's child complete with "time head".

We know that Alex Kingston says that River lies, and that Steve Moffat said in a tweet that River remembers Rory in the Big Bang but pretends that she doesn't. I wonder what else she is lying about.

My own wild & wacky theory is that the Silence have been manipulating things for a very long time, perhaps even to the extent of getting Amy and Rory on board the TARDIS together in order to produce this "time child" It might explain why the Doctor doesn't recognise River as a Time Lord. Because essentially she isn't.

Sealurk
May 1st, 2011, 03:07 AM
Yeah, River pretending she hasn't met Rory before...she must know in TPA that she's met Rory before, probably many times and that it is the last time they'll meet from her perspective, but he hasn't yet met her from his perspective so she's making things simpler for him and Amy by acting like she doesn't know them, because it's early days for them in terms of time travel and they may not yet be used to the way of thinking it demands.

Moffat should get a knighthood just for keeping this all straight in his head, let alone the rest of his writing!

Mr Evil 37
May 1st, 2011, 03:39 AM
It can't be absolutely in reverse order, I agree, and from our perspective River is moving away from the Library (since the Doctor is, as it's already happened to him), but since River hasn't been there yet, and she dies there, SHE is moving towards it, not away from it. And Time of Angels cannot be the story directly before the Library, because afterwards she didn't have the screw driver.

Flyboy
May 1st, 2011, 03:52 AM
It can't be absolutely in reverse order, I agree, and from our perspective River is moving away from the Library (since the Doctor is, as it's already happened to him), but since River hasn't been there yet, and she dies there, SHE is moving towards it, not away from it. And Time of Angels cannot be the story directly before the Library, because afterwards she didn't have the screw driver.

I disagree.

I think that it's all happening in reverse order, and when the Doctor meets River for HER first time, THEN he'll nip into HER future to give her the screw driver. From our perspective she's moving backwards in time, not forwards.

Nth Chevron
May 1st, 2011, 04:46 AM
OK, after that episode i think i'll open with an obligatory Eli phrase -

"Ok, what the F-"

Almost nothing answered and more questions thrown up :(

As for theories on, well anything thats happened these past 2weeks, heres my share :)

We have a few clues and pointers as to whats going on,

The Suit

As per what River said, the suit is meant to keep you alive, like the Pandorica, you dont even need to eat. We also know from S4, that a human-timelord metacrysis is impossible. Donna burnt up.

What if the suit is designed to keep a half human half Timelord body alive until it can find its own equilibrium, Donna was an adult and the girl was a child so it stands to reason any biological changes would be easier for her system adapt to being a child.

The Silence

Who. What. When. Where. Why.

The 5 W's that we still havent had answered, they have been controlling Humanity since the wheel, they are for all intents and purposes, invisible in society. They even have an effect on the Doctor, which is unusual, that also asks a question "What if the Silence has been on Gallifrey before?"

They appear to want something time related as per the Time-engine, but if they have the tech to create a pseudo TARDIS, why do they need to stay on Earth, couldnt they just go somewhere else and forge an empire that no-one knows is there?

Also, why forge your invisible empire on a planet known to attract trouble regularly, and from the worst of the worst? - The only answer to that would be they know the Doctor, he would come and he would save the planet and by extension the Silence.

The Girl

A little girl, possibly engineered, most likely fostered by the Silence. Looks human but can also regenerate.

Two possibilities that i can see

1 - The girl is the Doctors granddaughter or Rani, if the Silence have been on Earth that long then its possible they know of those 2.

2 - The girl is a Timelord/Human hybrid, somehow hidden from the innate ability other Timelords have of detecting each other. Which makes me wonder, IF she was created (as these 2 species combining cannot happen naturally(which doesnt explain the Doctor) then what if the Silence are attempting to a make semi new Timelord race open to their influence, and thus the Silence will then control time and space LITERALLY.

If that is the case, why didnt they use the original Timelords, unless the Timewar has something to do with this.

As for the TARDIS, a good point was made about her being sentient, which could mean the Silents have an affect on her, but if there have been Silents in the TARDIS, since the Lodger and 11th Hour as has been speculated and pointed out, then what does this mean for the TARDIS, and how much of the Doctors actions of wiping out MASSIVE threats could actually be credited to him?

I hate this show sometimes, my heads to small for all these thoughts ..

N.C

*P.S - After much thinking and deliberation i have discovered the most important line in this weeks episode.

"The Silence wanted a spacesuit, so they built a rocket to goto the moon"

Makes no sense on that scale, its like buying a car for a Radio.

knowles2
May 1st, 2011, 05:21 AM
I'm just going to throw this out there: what if Amy's pregnancy is a result of Silence meddling in order to create their own Time Lord?

Consider:
due to the nature of the Silence, the Doctor wouldn't have to remember any medical procedure
the Silence held Amy, in their homebrew TARDIS for some amount of time and we don't yet know why
the TARDIS was flashing between positive and negative....the TARDIS is also alive, and may be affected by the Silence in ways as yet unknown
the 'homemade' TARDIS in The Lodger last year wouldn't work until it had a proper pilot, vis a vis the Doctor, but then he was too much for it. Perhaps a Time Lord 'diluted' with human DNA would do the trick

This has been Wild Theory #23492

All ready threw that one out there digifluid in my first comment on this thread.

mr_kennedy
May 1st, 2011, 06:22 AM
That was simply amazing

River's storyline just gets more confusing with each passing episode

Alan
May 1st, 2011, 06:49 AM
That was simply amazing

River's storyline just gets more confusing with each passing episode

But it will all straighten itself out as the series progresses. I say let it get more confused. Its gonna make the answer as to who River Song is all the much more of a bigger revelation.

jameshawking
May 1st, 2011, 07:35 AM
Here's the short of it:

It's not absolute. Otherwise their diaries would be ENTIRELY useless, since if it was an absolutely inverse relationship, then they would NEVER, EVER have the same memories and history. So no, they could never reminisce on Jim the Fish.


Also, Nth: They were there since before humanity ever really lured the Doctor's eye. So it's fairly unreasonable to assume that they were drawn there because of him.

Also, if you never were in any real danger, why wouldn't you go to Earth? It's been established that they have technology from over a dozen different species, so I, personally, would picture Earth, and them staying there (if they have) as simply logical, since it is equivalent to an outer-space junkyard. You have Dalek technology, Cybermen technology, Syccorax technology, Silurian, Sontaran, and....how many others, exactly?

If you make your life off of being a technological parasite, why not be where it all seems to gather?

Nth Chevron
May 1st, 2011, 08:24 AM
On a low-tech planet in a Linear timeline, instead of zipping across Space and Time and gathering the materials and tech you need in half the .. time...

Why set-up a slavage operation on Earth, when with their abilities, could conceivably find the biggest space empire out there and rule it from the Shadows.

N.C

Galileo_Galilee
May 1st, 2011, 08:34 AM
I just had a wild thought... since River is going backwards, could that make her.....


Merlin?

She pretended to be a male in order to foster an important historical event?

Hmmmmm.....

Blencathra
May 1st, 2011, 08:49 AM
I just had a wild thought... since River is going backwards, could that make her.....


Merlin?

She pretended to be a male in order to foster an important historical event?

Hmmmmm.....

Sorry I don't understand that bit about her being Merlin because she's going backwards in time. Can you explain? Are you talking about Battlefield?

Sealurk
May 1st, 2011, 08:52 AM
Sorry I don't understand that bit about her being Merlin because she's going backwards in time. Can you explain? Are you talking about Battlefield?

In the myths, Merlin aged backwards, which is how he was able to tell the future.

The problem is I don't think River herself is moving backwards through time, it's just how she and the Doctor meet.

Nth Chevron
May 1st, 2011, 08:56 AM
I think River might actually have some Timelady in her.

In the Time Engine of the Silents, she spins round and shoots about 5 in a spinning circular motion without seeing where they are.

The Doctor has shown this power, like when he stepped between the rotor blades of the massive fan in the Eccleston episode of the Sol star going supernova.

N.V

Blencathra
May 1st, 2011, 09:08 AM
In the myths, Merlin aged backwards, which is how he was able to tell the future.

The problem is I don't think River herself is moving backwards through time, it's just how she and the Doctor meet.

I had to look it up as I've not heard that before. I can only find the reference to Merlin aging backwards in T H White's The Once and Future King. Unless someone knows of another source.

I agree though, I don't think River is solely moving backwards either.

jameshawking
May 1st, 2011, 09:20 AM
Considering the fact that River said she "hates wizards from fairy tales, because they all end up being him [The Doctor]...and he HAS "aged backwards" with each regeneration being younger than the last, just about...

Alan
May 1st, 2011, 09:25 AM
I just had a wild thought... since River is going backwards, could that make her.....


Merlin?

She pretended to be a male in order to foster an important historical event?

Hmmmmm.....

In the 1989 story Battlefield, its already been addressed that the Doctor's future may very well be as Merlin.

Zarius
May 1st, 2011, 09:31 AM
I just had a wild thought... since River is going backwards, could that make her.....


Merlin?

She pretended to be a male in order to foster an important historical event?

Hmmmmm.....

The Doctor is Merlin, watch the 1989 serial "Battlefield", at some point, the future Doctor (probably 11) travels to an alternate dimension and acts as Arthur's advisor and becomes an enemy of Morganna, when she and her knights travel to our dimension, they meet an earlier incarnation of The Doctor (7) who has to bluff his way into finding out more about the war there fighting and eventually discovers a warning from his future self.


I think River might actually have some Timelady in her.

In the Time Engine of the Silents, she spins round and shoots about 5 in a spinning circular motion without seeing where they are.

The Doctor has shown this power, like when he stepped between the rotor blades of the massive fan in the Eccleston episode of the Sol star going supernova.

Did it ever occur to you those scenes were just cheesy cinema-esque director's choices?

"Ah, Human beings...always seeing patterns in things that arent there"

-The Eighth Doctor.

wise one
May 1st, 2011, 09:46 AM
maybe river shoots the doctor since "she killed the best man she ever known????

Alan
May 1st, 2011, 10:06 AM
maybe river shoots the doctor since "she killed the best man she ever known????

I doubt it for this reason - at the beginning of The Impossible Astronaut, River is still locked away in a Stormcage Containment Facility for the death of whoever it is she killed as she revealed in The Time of Angels. If River was in the Astronaut gear and did kill the Doctor then the River on the beach that just escaped from the Stormcage and is watching from a distance along with Amy and Rory wouldn't have been surprised at what she saw because she's already been through it. Whoever River killed I don't think it was the Doctor and I don't think the Astronaut is River.

Ian-S
May 1st, 2011, 10:40 AM
Maybe River kills Rory?

Not sure if this has already been bought up, but seeing as the Tardis is alive, I wonder whether Amy is pregnant with a Silent-Human hybrid (possibly the little girl?), the Tardis scans her, confirms she's pregnant, stops, forgets, rescans her, confirms she's pregnant, stops, forgets.... get the idea?

OK, I said I wasn't going to try and second guess The Moff, bahh, sod that :D

boxvic
May 1st, 2011, 11:16 AM
Maybe River kills Rory?

I'm starting to think that is a real possibility.

Replicator Todd
May 1st, 2011, 11:36 AM
Wow what a ending! One of the season openers ever! For any show!

THIS IS WHY I LOVE THIS SHOW SO FREAKIN MUCH! :p

Seriously, the episode had me tense and paying attention even during commercials...and the ending shocked me and punched me in the face I had trouble containing my amazement.

Nth Chevron
May 1st, 2011, 12:33 PM
Did it ever occur to you those scenes were just cheesy cinema-esque director's choices?

"Ah, Human beings...always seeing patterns in things that arent there"

-The Eighth Doctor.

yes it had actually, then i just thought of one word.

Moffat.

That was enough :P

N.C

Teddybrown
May 1st, 2011, 12:44 PM
Wow, I leave for the day and 3 pages turn up when I get back lol
Reading all these theories on River and trying to process them all has seriously given me a headache lol, and theyve all kinda merged into one jumbled mess in my head that I cant understand...
I like the idea of River possibly killing Rory, because as someone said on this thread (sorry cant remember who) shes in prison when she recieves the envelope and thats in the future, so unless she has a really long sentence..., and as I said, why would she dress as the astronaut?, so Im kinda edging towards someone else apart from the Doctor, and River could be describing Rory, because he is a really good person to Amy (Sorry, I cant remember her exact words)

Madeleine
May 1st, 2011, 01:32 PM
I'm guessing the little girl is either Amy's and Rory's, or River's, or River herself perhaps. Or it might even be Amy's daugher River (anyone notice how River said she hoped her Old Man didn't see that? Old Man being a phrase that can either mean husband or dad - misdirection as to whether she's talking about the Doctor or someone else, but it was Rory that was there watching....)

But I have a strong feeling she's not the Doctor's. The regeneration ability doesn't need to be inherited, it might be a side effect from being born or conceived in the Tardis. It could be a passive side effect or a deliberate gift from the Tardis, which used to be treated almost as a character in the RTD era and which might well decide to be the baby's fairy godmother.

The mystery then becomes: how did she come to be abandoned in America in the '60s?

Teddybrown
May 1st, 2011, 01:50 PM
Jus read from the BBC website
Mild spoiler

The lady that Amy saw in the door, with the eye patch
We will be seeing her again... Dunno when though

Who do we think she is?

Zarius
May 1st, 2011, 02:02 PM
maybe river shoots the doctor since "she killed the best man she ever known????

That doesnt neccersarily mean The Doctor. River is already in prison when summoned to Utah to witness The Doctor's death.


Jus read from the BBC website
Mild spoiler

The lady that Amy saw in the door, with the eye patch
We will be seeing her again... Dunno when though

Yeah I've read some spoilers about her...mainly just her name though.

Teddybrown
May 1st, 2011, 02:25 PM
Just looked on wikipedia, apparently there was a 3million viewer drop for episode 2
That cant be right???

Alan
May 1st, 2011, 02:31 PM
Just looked on wikipedia, apparently there was a 3million viewer drop for episode 2
That cant be right???

First of all...Trust NOTHING from Wikipedia.

The Impossible Astronaut's final ratings were 8.86 million with an 88 Appreciation Index. Day of the Moon's ratings at the moment stand at 5.7 million but will more than likely go up towards the end of the week.

All rating news here: http://www.doctorwhonews.net/2011/04/dwn010511093712-day-of-moon-overnight.html

And here: http://www.doctorwhonews.net/2011/04/dwn0105160412-impossible-astronaut.html

Blencathra
May 1st, 2011, 02:45 PM
LOL. I just posted those on the News thread. :)

PMN1
May 1st, 2011, 02:48 PM
I had to look it up as I've not heard that before. I can only find the reference to Merlin aging backwards in T H White's The Once and Future King. Unless someone knows of another source.



Its also mentioned in the Star Trek book, 'Strangers from the Sky'.

Alan
May 1st, 2011, 02:50 PM
LOL. I just posted those on the News thread. :)

LOL Coincidence...or Time Lord mental powers? :)

Blencathra
May 1st, 2011, 03:16 PM
LOL Coincidence...or Time Lord mental powers? :)

:eek: *cue Twilight Zone music*


By the way has anyone mentioned the "zero balanced dwarf star alloy" that the Doctor's prison is being built from in Area 51. Is that linked to Romana & E-space somehow? (Warrior's Gate)

Alan
May 1st, 2011, 03:33 PM
:eek: *cue Twilight Zone music*

:eek: *cue "Flavia's Theme" music*


By the way has anyone mentioned the "zero balanced dwarf star alloy" that the Doctor's prison is being built from in Area 51. Is that linked to Romana & E-space somehow? (Warrior's Gate)I don't believe it has been mentioned before...but yes, it had its origins in Warriors' Gate and was being used to contain the Time Sensitive species the Tharils...and is obviously effective against Time Lords too. Maybe, like the lone Dalek that found its way to Earth in 1963 after the Last Great Time War, some of the Alloy found its way to Earth too. An Alloy like that would undoubtedly be useful for the Daleks to keep Time Lord Prisoners Of War.

Rachel500
May 1st, 2011, 04:10 PM
Lots of speculation :)

Has anybody considered that the little girl may be...



One of the Doctor's first companions - his Grand-daughter, Susan, who stayed on Earth in the Sixties as I recall? I don't think there was anything ever canonically to unequivocally state that she wasn't a Time Lady although I admit I could be mistaken.

Or perhaps, it's her daughter?

mr_kennedy
May 1st, 2011, 04:11 PM
But it will all straighten itself out as the series progresses. I say let it get more confused. Its gonna make the answer as to who River Song is all the much more of a bigger revelation.

Totally agree, going to be a wild ride :D

Pharaoh Hamenthotep
May 1st, 2011, 04:29 PM
Lots of speculation :)

Has anybody considered that the little girl may be...



One of the Doctor's first companions - his Grand-daughter, Susan, who stayed on Earth in the Sixties as I recall? I don't think there was anything ever canonically to unequivocally state that she wasn't a Time Lady although I admit I could be mistaken.

Or perhaps, it's her daughter?



She might be someone familiar to The Doctor but that doesn't have to mean someone from his past. He didn't recognise her so if she is Timelord(lady) then he should have been able to sense that about her in the same way the Tenth Doctor said he would be able to sense other Timelords if they were still around. Unless that has conveniently been forgotten about..

Personally I want the girl to be someone new.. and not an old character starting their run of being revived over and over like the Daleks, the Cybermen and The Master..

And making the girl Amy's daughter just seems too obvious, after all the build up of Amy being pregnant or not.. and the pictures of her with a baby and the TARDIS scanning her. It just answers too many questions too soon. Yes, Amy is pregnant and the girl is her daughter.. it's too soon in the series for such definite answers.. especially ones that can be guessed so easily from what will most likely be foreshadowing for the mid-season cliffhanger.

SaberBlade
May 1st, 2011, 05:04 PM
Personally I thought the entire episode was pointlessly unnecessary. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed it, but it did nothing for me. Arc based stories can be good, but I'm getting the feeling I am starting to watch Lost.

I want to pick everything in the episode apart, even the bit with the awesome regeneration at the end. I loved it, but makes no sense. I feel like Moffat is trying to build up something big, so I am willing to look past it for now. Without considering the larger ramifications of the episode, I liked it. Loved how Neil Armstrong on the moon was used as a post hypnotic suggestion to kill at the Silence and not even remember doing it.


Lots of speculation :)

Has anybody considered that the little girl may be...



One of the Doctor's first companions - his Grand-daughter, Susan, who stayed on Earth in the Sixties as I recall? I don't think there was anything ever canonically to unequivocally state that she wasn't a Time Lady although I admit I could be mistaken.

Or perhaps, it's her daughter?



The problem with determining the identity of the girl is mainly the fact she regenerates.

The Doctor's granddaughter wasn't a Time Lady, she was just a regular Gallifreyan. So her children would also be Galifrayan (in part if she had kids with a human). Even if the Doctor himself was the father, he wouldn't pass on regenerations to the child. It's why Jenny didn't regenerate (she was just revived by terraforming process) and why the metacrisis Doctor also wouldn't regenerate (as well as being half human).

It's the leader of the Time Lords who give out regenerations and new regenerations when the original 12 are used. I would have considered her Amy's child based on the photo. The regeneration showing she's a Time Lady could make her the Doctor's daughter and Amy just raised her, as half human/half Time Lord's are supposed to be impossible unless Moffat wants to rewrite previously established facts.

Alan
May 1st, 2011, 05:06 PM
One other question I need answering that I forgot to list in my original posting on this episodes thread...Just who was that woman with the eye patch at the children's home?

Pharaoh Hamenthotep
May 1st, 2011, 05:12 PM
One other question I need answering that I forgot to list in my original posting on this episodes thread...Just who was that woman with the eye patch at the children's home?

Indeed. That was strange. :S It wasn't a normal eye patch and what she said to the effect of "she's just dreaming" just made her creepy :S It doesn't seem to be connected to The Silence since no one else was made to hallucinate, if she was in fact a hallucination.. It could have been a Time Window (invented by PH) and she was looking back into the past? The eye patch seemed to be some kind of future tech.. or at least a shiny thing :D ..Not normal eye patch material at all. And the way the Time Window just completely disappeared from the door :eek: I expect this is something that will be revealed later on.. or at least I hope it will be..

jameshawking
May 1st, 2011, 05:20 PM
Something to note:

the kid was entirely accustomed to, and not surprised by, regenerating. She actually came to expect it, as well as realize it was abnormal.

So...I'd love to know how she'd know that WITHOUT previously either regenerating or being told about it. Frankly: I'm of the opinion that she's known about regenerations quite a while, and probably gone through some of them.

Or she has/had a Dalek/Time Lord raise her, partially.

Alan
May 1st, 2011, 05:26 PM
Indeed. That was strange. :S It wasn't a normal eye patch and what she said to the effect of "she's just dreaming" just made her creepy :S It doesn't seem to be connected to The Silence since no one else was made to hallucinate, if she was in fact a hallucination.. It could have been a Time Window (invented by PH) and she was looking back into the past? The eye patch seemed to be some kind of future tech.. or at least a shiny thing :D ..Not normal eye patch material at all. And the way the Time Window just completely disappeared from the door :eek: I expect this is something that will be revealed later on.. or at least I hope it will be..

At the moment its just creepy randomness and, at this moment at least, seems to have no place in the scheme of the opening 2-part story...but in the grand, grand, GRAND scheme of Steven Moffat's grand, grand, GRAND plan for Doctor Who I'm sure it will all come together in the end. :)

I'm sure we're all intrigued and excited at what is to come...but I expect that's going to build ELEVEN fold when we have the mid-series break which, apparently, is going to leave us with a cliffhanger and, I'm sure, even more questions we want the answers to and Mr. Moffat, mad genius and driving force behind Doctor Who, is gonna deliver.

pbellosom
May 1st, 2011, 05:46 PM
Lots of speculation :)

Has anybody considered that the little girl may be...



One of the Doctor's first companions - his Grand-daughter, Susan, who stayed on Earth in the Sixties as I recall? I don't think there was anything ever canonically to unequivocally state that she wasn't a Time Lady although I admit I could be mistaken.

Or perhaps, it's her daughter?



It was the 2060s though wasn't it? Or possibly the 2160s, the date of that story was retconned a lot.



[spoiler]

The Doctor's granddaughter wasn't a Time Lady, she was just a regular Gallifreyan. So her children would also be Galifrayan (in part if she had kids with a human).


That was from the EU novels, the canonical status of what is quite dubious since New Who arrived

SaberBlade
May 1st, 2011, 06:08 PM
That was from the EU novels, the canonical status of what is quite dubious since New Who arrived

I don't think that's right. Her relationship to the Doctor during the series was established from episode it. I think it was later they tried to retcon it behind the scenes and then used books to contradict the series. New Who has yet to explore it, but he has mentioned having lost his family so she could still count.

Replicator Todd
May 1st, 2011, 06:30 PM
One other question I need answering that I forgot to list in my original posting on this episodes thread...Just who was that woman with the eye patch at the children's home?

That was so random I kept doubting what I actually saw. Seriously. I thought I was crazy for a moment. :p

Alan
May 1st, 2011, 07:34 PM
That was so random I kept doubting what I actually saw. Seriously. I thought I was crazy for a moment. :p

:indeed: Can't wait to see where that piece of the jigsaw fits in.

sparklegem
May 1st, 2011, 07:44 PM
I'm sure we're all intrigued and excited at what is to come...but I expect that's going to build ELEVEN fold when we have the mid-series break which, apparently, is going to leave us with a cliffhanger

D-: I barely made it through that week between Astronaut and Moon. I am not looking forward to this mid-season break.

Alan
May 1st, 2011, 08:08 PM
D-: I barely made it through that week between Astronaut and Moon. I am not looking forward to this mid-season break.

I barely make it through any length of time without new eps of Doctor Who but fans did it for years between 1989 and 1996 and then 1996 and 2005. Those dark periods were filled with books, audios, and comics, and VHS releases of stories featuring the first 8 Doctors. The dark gap between both halfs of Season 32 will be a cinch by comparison for some fans. Luckily Series 4 of Torchwood begins in July which is timed quite nicely because that's supposed to be when this mid-season break occurs for Doctor Who. Episodes of Torchwood and my new Doctor Who novels will keep me occupied until Season 32 resumes again. I'm covered...just. :)

WingedPegasus
May 1st, 2011, 11:22 PM
I just finished watching this...wow. Just wow. That was so good, but so creepy! I really wanna know who that girl is now...

Edit: Any possibility of her being River and the Doctor's daughter from the future?
Hmm....nah. That doesn't sound right. :S Guess we'll find out eventually. :D

sparklegem
May 2nd, 2011, 12:26 AM
Episodes of Torchwood and my new Doctor Who novels will keep me occupied until Season 32 resumes again.

I tried one of the new novels once and it seemed very much a children's book. There were some nice moments but on the whole it wasn't a satisfying read. Are there some better ones out there?

pbellosom
May 2nd, 2011, 04:45 AM
I don't think that's right. Her relationship to the Doctor during the series was established from episode it. I think it was later they tried to retcon it behind the scenes and then used books to contradict the series. New Who has yet to explore it, but he has mentioned having lost his family so she could still count.

No, I mean she was definitely the Doctor's grand daughter. I was pointing out that all the stuff about how being a Gallifreyan and not a Time Lady or that there even was a difference between a Gallifreyan and a Time Lady is of dubious cannon.


One other question I need answering that I forgot to list in my original posting on this episodes thread...Just who was that woman with the eye patch at the children's home?

Given how quickly it happened, I thought it was River Song. Apparently it was a different actress, but anyone else think she looked like a younger River?

Alan
May 2nd, 2011, 05:01 AM
I tried one of the new novels once and it seemed very much a children's book. There were some nice moments but on the whole it wasn't a satisfying read. Are there some better ones out there?

All I can suggest is keep reading all of them. It might just have been that author's style that seemed childish.


Given how quickly it happened, I thought it was River Song. Apparently it was a different actress, but anyone else think she looked like a younger River?

Definitely a different actress and I thought a slightly older one too. Given that River dies looking pretty much how she looks now I don't think its her. She's not going to get to grow that little bit older.

Admiral Mappalazarou
May 2nd, 2011, 06:02 AM
More questions came to me last night. Still thinking about this ep after days! Shows that it was just epic.

Q1) Where was the future Doctor's TARDIS? He just had a car in the desert.
Q2) Since the Lodger machine is suggested to be abandoned after this episode, that also suggests that the Silence in this two parter were the past versions of the Silence mentioned in series 5? Have they yet to destroy the TARDIS and crack open the universe?

Alan
May 2nd, 2011, 06:17 AM
More questions came to me last night. Still thinking about this ep after days! Shows that it was just epic.

Q1) Where was the future Doctor's TARDIS? He just had a car in the desert.

Maybe the car was the Doctor's TARDIS? Maybe future Doctor managed to get the Chameleon Circuit working?


Q2) Since the Lodger machine is suggested to be abandoned after this episode, that also suggests that the Silence in this two parter were the past versions of the Silence mentioned in series 5? Have they yet to destroy the TARDIS and crack open the universe?

Those are good questions, but I truly do not have a clue. Something else that might need to be addressed in the stories to come.

Admiral Mappalazarou
May 2nd, 2011, 06:25 AM
Maybe the car was the Doctor's TARDIS? Maybe future Doctor managed to get the Chameleon Circuit working?

Maybe, but then it didn't appear to be bigger on the side. Maybe he fazed it out so that the Silence in the present wouldn't get their hands on it. From what we know also, there are still Silence on Earth in the present (as Amy saw one, or the shadow of one, out on the dunes) so perhaps the sixties revolution didn't quite work.

Unless it just forced them into going into hiding instead. I mean who would attack them out in the desert?


Those are good questions, but I truly do not have a clue. Something else that might need to be addressed in the stories to come.

Who knows? Maybe their defeat in these episodes is what leads them to destroying the TARDIS later in revenge, fulfilling a paradox. You know how Moffat loves his paradoxes (or is that paradoxi?)

pbellosom
May 2nd, 2011, 06:36 AM
More questions came to me last night. Still thinking about this ep after days! Shows that it was just epic.

Q1) Where was the future Doctor's TARDIS? He just had a car in the desert.


Moffat implied that this was important

Spimman
May 2nd, 2011, 06:38 AM
Just wanted to pop back into the thread and comment that the Niel Armstrong subliminal message to kill The Silence was possibly one of the most brilliant moves ever, the more I think on it the better that one gets!



It could have been a Time Window (invented by PH)
Tell me more, how much does PH want for it on eBay? :p

Alan
May 2nd, 2011, 06:48 AM
Maybe, but then it didn't appear to be bigger on the side. Maybe he fazed it out so that the Silence in the present wouldn't get their hands on it.

Possible. He put the TARDIS out of temporal sync before in The End of Time, Part One to stop the Master getting hold of it so it's possible he did it again.


From what we know also, there are still Silence on Earth in the present (as Amy saw one, or the shadow of one, out on the dunes) so perhaps the sixties revolution didn't quite work.

Unless it just forced them into going into hiding instead. I mean who would attack them out in the desert?

Plausible. They were only seen to be revealed to the human race so after that they could have been driven out...and what better place to go run and hide than out in the middle of the Utah desert.


Who knows? Maybe their defeat in these episodes is what leads them to destroying the TARDIS later in revenge, fulfilling a paradox. You know how Moffat loves his paradoxes (or is that paradoxi?)

Jeez, its temporal paradoxes like this that could drive a man to drink. Between the events of 1969 and the events of those seen in 2010 as seen in The Eleventh Hour and The Pandorica Opens (a gap of 41-years) there is sooooooooooo much that could have happened. I'm finding it hard to get in to the head of an alien species and trying think of what they could and couldn't do when there's such a big gap for them to accomplish so much and its made even more difficult when time travel plays such a big part in things too. The Silence could have set things up in the end, to play a part in the beginning for when it ends in the middle. AAARRRRRGHHHH!!!!!

Truth is I love it. :D

DigiFluid
May 2nd, 2011, 06:59 AM
It just occurred to me....unless the timeline is altered, we'll be seeing Canton again. As of the end of this episode, the Doctor is still unaware of what Amy/Rory/River witnessed, and so cannot have asked Canton to bring them a can of gasoline. So he'll still need to do that.

Spimman
May 2nd, 2011, 07:40 AM
It just occurred to me....unless the timeline is altered, we'll be seeing Canton again. As of the end of this episode, the Doctor is still unaware of what Amy/Rory/River witnessed, and so cannot have asked Canton to bring them a can of gasoline. So he'll still need to do that.


Good point, I hope all these questions remain for a reason. There are still so many unanswered questions that lead up to and follow after this episode, I wonder how much River already knows (or knew).

Great writing!

DigiFluid
May 2nd, 2011, 07:53 AM
Another thought, since I'm watching this right now....

In order to catch River with the TARDIS' swimming pool, wouldn't she have had to fall horizontally through the control room? :D

knowles2
May 2nd, 2011, 07:56 AM
It just occurred to me....unless the timeline is altered, we'll be seeing Canton again. As of the end of this episode, the Doctor is still unaware of what Amy/Rory/River witnessed, and so cannot have asked Canton to bring them a can of gasoline. So he'll still need to do that.

The way the ended was worded I thought instantly they would see each other again. But it also possible they do not meet again. After Amy, Rory and River did not see the doctor until they got to the desert they just receive a envelope with instructions. It could be the same with Canton the Doctor just gave him more detail instructions in the evelope. The only thing certain is that Rory, River and Pond will never meet the old version again.

But again how the ended was worded and how it was acted, says to me that we will see him again. An the fact they still got a silent prisoner in Area 51 make me suspect they will see each other again. Also once the doctor shows someone how to fight aliens it seem like they do not give it up and continue the good fight until they no longer can.

Alan
May 2nd, 2011, 08:08 AM
Another thought, since I'm watching this right now....

In order to catch River with the TARDIS' swimming pool, wouldn't she have had to fall horizontally through the control room? :D

Not necessarily. The TARDISes Architectural Configuration (from Logopolis) would undoubtedly have come in to play for a move like that. Just a question of putting the swimming pool at the front main entrance and changing the angle of the interior (as done before in Time-Flight) would do the trick.

DigiFluid
May 2nd, 2011, 08:15 AM
Not necessarily. The TARDISes Architectural Configuration (from Logopolis) would undoubtedly have come in to play for a move like that. Just a question of putting the swimming pool at the front main entrance and changing the angle of the interior (as done before in Time-Flight) would do the trick.
True. It was just an amusing image :D

Nth Chevron
May 2nd, 2011, 08:56 AM
Did anyone find the last scene between the Doctor and River at Stormcage a little odd?

It was as if River knew something that should have happened but hadnt, like Amy not knowing the Daleks in S5.

Admittedly it could just be the reverse timeline interactions playing in again, but it seemed for too of an upfront in your face scene to just accentuate that fact again.

I think that scene holds a vital clue for something, trouble is, i got nothing.

N.C

WingedPegasus
May 2nd, 2011, 09:25 AM
Maybe, but then it didn't appear to be bigger on the side. Maybe he fazed it out so that the Silence in the present wouldn't get their hands on it. From what we know also, there are still Silence on Earth in the present (as Amy saw one, or the shadow of one, out on the dunes) so perhaps the sixties revolution didn't quite work.

Unless it just forced them into going into hiding instead. I mean who would attack them out in the desert?

Unless...it was there because they didn't start the revolution yet, even though they were technically in the future. O.o The future of a past that had not yet been changed.

Maybe one of those wibbly-wobbly, plotty-holey timey-wimey things. :P


True. It was just an amusing image :D

Indeed :D

WingedPegasus
May 2nd, 2011, 09:27 AM
Did anyone find the last scene between the Doctor and River at Stormcage a little odd?

It was as if River knew something that should have happened but hadnt, like Amy not knowing the Daleks in S5.

Admittedly it could just be the reverse timeline interactions playing in again, but it seemed for too of an upfront in your face scene to just accentuate that fact again.

I think that scene holds a vital clue for something, trouble is, i got nothing.

N.C

I think she was just sad because the Doctor (from her perspective) keeps getting younger and knowing her less--and consequently, knowing less about them--each time they meet. It's probably sort like living with someone with alzheimers, in the sense that you know them well but someday you know they won't recognize you.

Pharaoh Hamenthotep
May 2nd, 2011, 09:34 AM
Another thought, since I'm watching this right now....

In order to catch River with the TARDIS' swimming pool, wouldn't she have had to fall horizontally through the control room? :D

You've played Portal.. so you know about momentum :p It's like jumping through a portal on the floor and reappearing through a portal on a wall.. :D

johnsimon4566
May 2nd, 2011, 09:57 AM
Hi

There is just one thing that doesn't quite make sense, if we are to accept that the little girl in the NASA spacesuit is a time-lord/time-lady? why doesn't the Doctor know that she is a fellow time-lord/lady? after all the Doctor has specifically said before that he would know if there were any Time-Lords/Ladys still, mind you that doesn't run either if you remember way back in Utopia, the Doctor was not aware that the Master alive, we have been told that in the forth-coming episode "The Doctor's Wife" that Idris is an old friend who is isane, we all know that regeneration leaves the specific time-lord/lady very confused and in the description of "The Doctor's Wife" we are told Idris is insane - maybe she has just regenerated - is she the little girl from "Day of the Moon"? also from what I understand I have always thought that the TARDIS aids a Time-Lord/Lady's regeneration - so I don't think that it's too far a jump to assume that maybe the little girl's TARDIS is nearby & and thus available to take her away from Earth in the 60's, for all we know maybe a Time-Lord/Lady's make-up allows them to age rapidly, after all what better a place than late 60's Earth than to place a nascent-time lady, literally the last place where you would expect to find a time-lady, maybe she (the little girl) used the chameleon arch to change from time-lady to human, we all know that this is possible given that the Master in Utopia specifically states that he was found as a young human male with a fob-watch on a beach with no memory of who he is, after all in the "End of Time" - Gallifrey was hanging in normal space for an awfully long time - maybe a time-lady escaped - Romana/Susan prehaps? - travelled back in time to 60's Earth to hide in the USA and used the chameleon arch to change and lastly to take us back to the photo of Amy with a baby - the little girl? prehaps she honed in on Amy as she was/is the closest person to the Doctor and used the circumstances of her pregnancy to borrow some of Amy's DNA, if you look at the end of "Day of the Moon" you will see that the little girl has red hair and a more than passing resembalance to Amy.

Of course with the above I could be totally out of tune - so to speak, but I fancy that as the next few weeks go by that a lot of the questions which were left un-answered in "Day of the Moon" will be answered, lastly a final thought and an odd one at that are The Silence the owners of the proto-TARDIS and is it the same one from "The Lodger"? given that Craig Owens is coming back I fancy that we will know fairly soon, lastly are The Silence & The Cybermen enemies of both each other and The Doctor?

Ciao Mon Braves...

'And Thus the whirligig of time shall bring in his revenges' - William Shakespeare's - Twelth Night or prehaps more appropiately " A man can die but once..." - William Shakespeare's king Henry IV act 3 scene 2.....:beckett:

Spimman
May 2nd, 2011, 10:27 AM
I think she (the girl) is something different, somehow she is connected with Amy, the Doctor and the Silence...funny how nobody can remember?


I think she was just sad because the Doctor (from her perspective) keeps getting younger and knowing her less--and consequently, knowing less about them--each time they meet. It's probably sort like living with someone with alzheimers, in the sense that you know them well but someday you know they won't recognize you.

I'm thinking she knew that moment marked a shift to where going forward in her life she'll see him less and going forward in his he'll see her more.

Replicator Todd
May 2nd, 2011, 11:31 AM
Another thought, since I'm watching this right now....

In order to catch River with the TARDIS' swimming pool, wouldn't she have had to fall horizontally through the control room? :D

:lol:

Brings a funny image to my mind. :p

pbellosom
May 2nd, 2011, 11:55 AM
It was as if River knew something that should have happened but hadnt, like Amy not knowing the Daleks in S5.


She knew that the Doctor should've given her a goodbye kiss, but it didn't even occur to him

WingedPegasus
May 2nd, 2011, 12:04 PM
:lol:

Brings a funny image to my mind. :p

Too bad she wasn't screaming, that would've made some awesome Doppler effect. :P

Merlin's_Legacy
May 2nd, 2011, 12:35 PM
I have to throw in a few of my thoughts here:

The little girl regenerates. We've never seen anybody other than a Time Lord do this. Yet. My own personal theory here is that Moffatt may truly be playing a long game indeed. We've seen the fall-out of the Time War and the old atrocities creeping back into the time stream without Time Lord intervention to keep them at bay. Maybe this goes all the way back to Father's Day. Maybe someone, somewhere decided that the universe NEEDS Time Lords and has taken it upon themselves to create a new line of time lords. We've seen the new Dalek Paradigm, maybe this girl represents the beginning of the new Time Lord Paradigm.

If the child is indeed Arm's, maybe this has something to do with exposure to the cracks in the universe? The doctor has already said that traveling through time changes a person. That's why Amy could remember the soldiers after they ceased to exist in Time of Angels. But we also know that Amy grew up in almost constant direct contact with a crack in space and time. The Doctor even mentioned that the while of space and time was being poured into her mind. That almost reminds me of 9 said about Rose when Rose had the Time Vortex in her head and how he described how he perceives the universe. Maybe "temporal contamination" has fundamentally altered Amy. Honestly, the entire universe was recreated from her memories, so she is the technical definition of God at this point. Re-creator of all things.

The bit at the end with River I find confusing too. She knew something was out of sync there, I just don't know what.

I still say the controls of the Time Engine scream "Dalek". The shape of the panels is identical to the shield panels on the Dalek emperor in Parting of the Ways and the "control orbs" look to be a perfect fit for the Dalek plunger manipulator.

Regarding the window in the door: My instant reaction was "It's a TARDIS". Think about it... A TARDIS with a functioning Chameleon circuit could camouflage itself as a door. If a person is to be admitted to the Tardis interior, the door opens to the Tardis, otherwise it opens to the room the original door would have led to. Makes me think of the Oubliette scene in Labyrinth when Hoggle opens the door one way and it's a closet, then opens it another way and it leads outside.

Another random thought here: Paradox. River stated that if they prevent the Doctor's death it would cause a paradox because the reason form them deciding to prevent it would be removed. But we've seen a TARDIS turned into a paradox engine before. Maybe a Time Engine can do the same thing? I think Amy's "Shrodinger's Pregnancy" has something to do with this as well. She's definitely pregnant, but the child is in a state of temporal flux.

And one final thought: Could the Silence somehow be connected to the battle between The Light and The Dark, Abadon, and Bilis Manger from Torchwood?



And another non-spoilery thought: Is it just me, or do the Silence masks look like they are based on the Ood masks with the tentacles removed and the mouth covered over and the fore-head extended to recess the eyes??? Every time there was a shot of a Silent's eyes I kept expecting them to glow red.

FennerMachine
May 2nd, 2011, 02:55 PM
The girl could be a Time Lord/Lady & the Doctor may not be able to detect her.
It depends on how he knows there is another Time Lord.
Just a thought from old Who, recalled from memory so please correct me where I'm wrong!

There is a part of the Gallifreyan physiology that enables them to communicate and link brains, the Doctor had his disabled from the link at one point, part of his punishment I think. He clearly had it restored but that means other Time Lords could have chosen to disable there's meaning the Doctor cannot detect them.

SaberBlade
May 2nd, 2011, 03:57 PM
The girl could be a Time Lord/Lady & the Doctor may not be able to detect her.
It depends on how he knows there is another Time Lord.
Just a thought from old Who, recalled from memory so please correct me where I'm wrong!

There is a part of the Gallifreyan physiology that enables them to communicate and link brains, the Doctor had his disabled from the link at one point, part of his punishment I think. He clearly had it restored but that means other Time Lords could have chosen to disable there's meaning the Doctor cannot detect them.

10th still had the ability to detect Time Lords. He couldn't detect The Master originally when he was going around as Mr. Saxon because of the Archangel Link creating some sort of interference but when The Master was resurrected, could find him easily enough. So 11th should be able to detect the child as a Time Lady unless the Silence are doing something to hide her.

Cold Fuzz
May 2nd, 2011, 04:07 PM
It just occurred to me....unless the timeline is altered, we'll be seeing Canton again. As of the end of this episode, the Doctor is still unaware of what Amy/Rory/River witnessed, and so cannot have asked Canton to bring them a can of gasoline. So he'll still need to do that.

I'm hoping to see more of Canton as a recurring character throughout this season. Having a permanent contact in the US, especially somebody with ties to the White House and the FBI, is a good resource for the Doctor.

Sealurk
May 2nd, 2011, 04:32 PM
I'm hoping to see more of Canton as a recurring character throughout this season. Having a permanent contact in the US, especially somebody with ties to the White House and the FBI, is a good resource for the Doctor.

I'd also hope we get to see more of him, maybe a semi-recurring role even - he's an enjoyable and interesting character, and Mark Sheppard is a very watchable actor. Plus, if Doctor Who Confidential is to be believed, it looks like he really enjoyed himself making this (not least because of the tea...), so that bodes well.

jameshawking
May 2nd, 2011, 04:51 PM
Merlin: I believe that the Silence are far more akin to "The Grays" than any Ood.

Cold Fuzz
May 2nd, 2011, 05:07 PM
I'd also hope we get to see more of him, maybe a semi-recurring role even - he's an enjoyable and interesting character, and Mark Sheppard is a very watchable actor. Plus, if Doctor Who Confidential is to be believed, it looks like he really enjoyed himself making this (not least because of the tea...), so that bodes well.

I also like that Sheppard has been the narrator for all the series 6 trailers and DW Confidential tidbits. I think the producers struck gold with him.

SaberBlade
May 2nd, 2011, 06:50 PM
Watching the episode again, and it just occurred to me that the Doctor is partly responsible for events that happened in Watergate.

The Doctor told Nixon "record everything that happens in this room or you'll never know if you're under their influence"

Then during Watergate, we have these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watergate_tapes

P-90_177
May 3rd, 2011, 05:02 AM
Watching the episode again, and it just occurred to me that the Doctor is partly responsible for events that happened in Watergate.

The Doctor told Nixon "record everything that happens in this room or you'll never know if you're under their influence"

Then during Watergate, we have these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watergate_tapes

Haha. I didn't think of that. That's awesome.

Nth Chevron
May 3rd, 2011, 07:29 AM
Thats pretty awesome, never twigged onto that :)

N.C

jameshawking
May 3rd, 2011, 07:57 AM
You guys really didn't catch that <<?

I noticed it and figured everyone would, so I didn't say anything xD.

I even realized that the Silence would be on the missing minutes.

After all, even information (read: recordings) of the silence degrade and disappear with time...

Nth Chevron
May 3rd, 2011, 12:32 PM
Well i live in the UK and although i know of the Watergate scandal, i am not aware of the specifics :D

N.C

Replicator Todd
May 3rd, 2011, 03:37 PM
I also like that Sheppard has been the narrator for all the series 6 trailers and DW Confidential tidbits. I think the producers struck gold with him.

Hehe, certainly seems that way! It would be neat to see Sheppard as Canton again.

Cold Fuzz
May 3rd, 2011, 03:56 PM
Hehe, certainly seems that way! It would be neat to see Sheppard as Canton again.

I'm pretty sure we're going to see Canton again. The Doctor's not done with the Silence, not by a long shot. Beings that can erase the memory of even a Time Lord are not simply going to give up an empire they've been building for millennia. I'm sure they're planning their revenge.

mr_kennedy
May 3rd, 2011, 04:10 PM
It just occurred to me....unless the timeline is altered, we'll be seeing Canton again. As of the end of this episode, the Doctor is still unaware of what Amy/Rory/River witnessed, and so cannot have asked Canton to bring them a can of gasoline. So he'll still need to do that.

Thats what i think, we'll be seeing him again even after/before? (Gah!) Amy/Rory/River witnessed the doctor's death, i dont think The Doctor would trust a 1 off companion so much like with Canton, so im guessing he will be back

I thought it was abit odd that a complete stranger was helping the doctor (well from our perspectives at that time)

P-90_177
May 3rd, 2011, 04:25 PM
Thats what i think, we'll be seeing him again even after/before? (Gah!) Amy/Rory/River witnessed the doctor's death, i dont think The Doctor would trust a 1 off companion so much like with Canton, so im guessing he will be back

I thought it was abit odd that a complete stranger was helping the doctor (well from our perspectives at that time)

But at the same time, the point of Canton could have been to provide the first clue to put the others on their journey.

mr_kennedy
May 3rd, 2011, 04:55 PM
But at the same time, the point of Canton could have been to provide the first clue to put the others on their journey.

You could be right, there just seemed to be more to it, plus its not like Mark Shephard does just 1 episode in any shows his been in either i think we havent seen the last of Canton

Ian-S
May 3rd, 2011, 07:32 PM
maybe the Doctor couldn't sense the Time Girl thingy because she was just that, a child?

mr_kennedy
May 3rd, 2011, 08:12 PM
maybe the Doctor couldn't sense the Time Girl thingy because she was just that, a child?

A child that regenerates?

knowles2
May 4th, 2011, 03:03 AM
May be a Time Lord child got some sought of protection method to stop other time lords from finding them.

Or perhaps the Silent hypnotize the Doctor so he would never be able to detect a time lord again. Just like the Doctor hypnotize us humans to always see the Silents so they could not hide from us anymore.

Ian-S
May 4th, 2011, 03:35 AM
A child that regenerates?

what I meant was that maybe because she is a child is the reason he can't "see" her, perhaps there's some genetic reason, the ability to see only becomes active once she takes adult form?

Or maybe she is a really really really old Timelord, and not a new person, suppose I'm not putting it across right.

Nth Chevron
May 4th, 2011, 04:55 AM
The Doctor can sense other Time-Lords, but i dont know if that extends to non-Tine-Lord Gallifreyans.

The two Tennant Doctors never noticed Donna became part Time-Lord, either in their presence or felt through the Time Vortex.

I would say the detection thing only extends to full-blown Time-Lords, not part ones, like the maybe-time child and the Doctor-Donna

N.C

P-90_177
May 5th, 2011, 05:35 AM
I'm not actually convinced that she's Timelord yet. I mean the silence had apparently created a TARDIS or at least come across one at some point. It stands to reason that they also created a being that could regenerate because they wanted to replicate the process.

Alan
May 5th, 2011, 06:14 AM
Just a thought regarding the Little Girl and her regeneration - there's another humanoid species that's been seen to regenerate in Doctor Who before - the Minyans of the planet Minyos as seen in the 1978 story Underworld. Maybe the Little Girl is a member of the Minyan species?

Nth Chevron
May 5th, 2011, 07:15 AM
It's possible, but it doesnt seem like the Moff to write something so anti-climactic as that :P

N.C

Alan
May 5th, 2011, 07:48 AM
It's possible, but it doesnt seem like the Moff to write something so anti-climactic as that :P

N.C

I'm just throwing out everything that Doctor Who has to offer. Putting another idea out on the table. Never put anything past Mr. Moffat. You never know what he'll add to the Whoniverse or who or what might come back. :)

leeman15251
May 5th, 2011, 12:22 PM
A child that regenerates?

I was thinking that the child was Amy's The scan the doctor done at the end could determine it she was pregnant or not. We do not know what the effects of time travel would have on a pregnancy.

Teddybrown
May 5th, 2011, 03:36 PM
Preview clips from tomorrows episode Curse of the Black Spot

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/videos/p00gqrv7

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/videos/p00gqrsd

An interview with Hugh Bonneville

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/ne...th_the_Captain

And finally, introducing the episode

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/videos/p00grd0t

Nth Chevron
May 5th, 2011, 07:59 PM
A new theory on the Doctors death scene.

What if the future Doctor had never been involved in the events of 1969, was being hunted by the Silence and whomever their boss is/the loosely affiliated big bad, thats why you saw the Doctor throughout history doing nothing to keep himself hidden, running from whomever would also explain why he said "i've been running faster than ever"

The future Doctor concocts a plan, to stop whomever, maybe the Time-girl could track the Doctor and/or the TARDIS with her Time-Lord radar thing, anyway, the plan involves bringing certain people together, River, Amy, Rory and Canton (god knows why if this is true) brings them all to one place to witness him sacrifice himself, to draw attention away from the fact he let his younger self know about the Silence before futre Doctor did, without actually yelling him.

The Doctor trusts himself most of all.

If you were gonna sacrifice yourself for just a fighting chance at altering the timeline without too much of a "brute-force" type of involvement, wouldnt you put your best man on the job?

So future Doctor sacrifices himself to allow his younger self and friends to discover the Silence on Earth before he did, thus allowing for a completely new chain of events that MAY NOT culminate in the Doctors death.

Much like how the Time-War was fought.

Thoughts?

N.C

Cold Fuzz
May 6th, 2011, 10:38 PM
A new theory on the Doctors death scene.

What if the future Doctor had never been involved in the events of 1969, was being hunted by the Silence and whomever their boss is/the loosely affiliated big bad, thats why you saw the Doctor throughout history doing nothing to keep himself hidden, running from whomever would also explain why he said "i've been running faster than ever"

The future Doctor concocts a plan, to stop whomever, maybe the Time-girl could track the Doctor and/or the TARDIS with her Time-Lord radar thing, anyway, the plan involves bringing certain people together, River, Amy, Rory and Canton (god knows why if this is true) brings them all to one place to witness him sacrifice himself, to draw attention away from the fact he let his younger self know about the Silence before futre Doctor did, without actually yelling him.

The Doctor trusts himself most of all.

If you were gonna sacrifice yourself for just a fighting chance at altering the timeline without too much of a "brute-force" type of involvement, wouldnt you put your best man on the job?

So future Doctor sacrifices himself to allow his younger self and friends to discover the Silence on Earth before he did, thus allowing for a completely new chain of events that MAY NOT culminate in the Doctors death.

Much like how the Time-War was fought.

Thoughts?

N.C

Very intriguing theory. It certainly fits what little we've seen so far. It would be an interesting irony if what we're seeing right now is the "altered" timeline (as per your theory) and the Doctor's death was the timeline that was "supposed" to happen originally. Deliberately creating a paradox to change the timeline. It's supposed to be a no-no per the laws of time but it's just the sort of thing the Doctor would do to stop a massively insidious enemy like the Silence.

Alan
May 7th, 2011, 05:00 AM
DOCTOR WHO
Episode 3 - "The Curse of
the Black Spot"
Today (07/05/11), 6:15pm on BBC1

Wayston
May 8th, 2011, 12:09 PM
this was a brilliant episode, especially the part with the silence hanging from the wall and the x marks appearing on amy's face!

Admiral Mappalazarou
May 9th, 2011, 08:41 AM
A new theory on the Doctors death scene.

What if the future Doctor had never been involved in the events of 1969, was being hunted by the Silence and whomever their boss is/the loosely affiliated big bad, thats why you saw the Doctor throughout history doing nothing to keep himself hidden, running from whomever would also explain why he said "i've been running faster than ever"

The future Doctor concocts a plan, to stop whomever, maybe the Time-girl could track the Doctor and/or the TARDIS with her Time-Lord radar thing, anyway, the plan involves bringing certain people together, River, Amy, Rory and Canton (god knows why if this is true) brings them all to one place to witness him sacrifice himself, to draw attention away from the fact he let his younger self know about the Silence before futre Doctor did, without actually yelling him.

The Doctor trusts himself most of all.

If you were gonna sacrifice yourself for just a fighting chance at altering the timeline without too much of a "brute-force" type of involvement, wouldnt you put your best man on the job?

So future Doctor sacrifices himself to allow his younger self and friends to discover the Silence on Earth before he did, thus allowing for a completely new chain of events that MAY NOT culminate in the Doctors death.

Much like how the Time-War was fought.

Thoughts?

N.C

I like that.

It also fits in with Moffat's love for time paradoxes.

Nth Chevron
May 9th, 2011, 03:52 PM
Just an after-thought, aside from the Doctors companions begging him to follow the lead up, he also received a Blue Letter himself, now we never saw what was written on the Doctors invitation, it definitely wasnt the same coordinates as the other 3 or the present-time Doctor would have watched the events of his future self.

The way the Doctor acted about who sent them made think he was acting a little bit(ironic) - what if future Doctor gave present Doctor some more information than the other three?

I cant guess at what it is, it was just the lines from the Doctor in Black Spot that made us all think he knew who and what Amy and Rory were keeping from him.

N.C

Shpinxinator
May 11th, 2011, 06:16 PM
I have this iching feeling the Scilence may not be the bad guys....if we recall the event's of season 5 we heard over and over again "Scilence will fall" now in Day of the Moon the Scilence "fell" as it were...is it possible they were doing something to stop the big baddy yet to come?

Nth Chevron
May 13th, 2011, 04:08 AM
I had that same thought too, besides, the voice was different in the TARDIS before she went supernova.

BUT

The Silence in Day of the Moon also said this phrase, now why would you say your own race and ideology was going to fall unless you meant it in the play on words sense of "silence fell on a battlefield"

"Silence fell on the warring couple"

My theory now is that there is some kind of driving force behind the Silence, they have a Time-Engine, yet they dont build anything themselves, they leech.

They knew enough to manipulate the Doctor AND destroy the TARDIS, which is no mean feat, sure the Daleks could drop the TARDIS into a furnace but they couldnt blow it up from the inside out causing a total event collapse.

Something drew the TARDIS to Amy's time TO go supernova, but why Amy's time?

Something is also trying to perform some plan involving Time-Lord DNA, and as far as we know, the Time-War may be an integral part of this story.

What if there is a back door to through the timelock?

Too many thoughts aggghhh

N.C

maneth
June 5th, 2013, 09:23 AM
Interesting episode. Creepy too, and I loved the late 60s adventure. It was also cool to see "Romo Lampkin" again.

I also wonder if the child who regenerated at the end is River Song...