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Ukko
April 18th, 2011, 06:07 AM
This is a thread for those who have read the books to discuss them without spoiling things for those who have not.:)

I personally havent read them, but im going to. Can anyone tell me how many books or how far into the first book this season goes? Im planning on reading them between seasons and dont want to skip too far ahead and spoil the next season.

MattSilver 3k
April 18th, 2011, 06:08 AM
From what I understand, each book will get its own season, and the series is planning seven (or maybe eight) novels, and only five have been released.

Feel free to correct - I'm not well-versed.

The Mighty 6 platoon
April 18th, 2011, 06:29 AM
From what I understand, each book will get its own season, and the series is planning seven (or maybe eight) novels, and only five have been released.

Feel free to correct - I'm not well-versed.

Pretty much. 7 novels, a season a novel, though the might have to do 2 seasons for a couple of the larger books.

magictrick
April 18th, 2011, 06:56 AM
I believe the plan is to have one season per novel. So far there are 4 books released with the 5th one, A Dance with Dragons, being released in July.

At the rate that GRRM is writing though, it looks like the HBO productions will catch up with the books before he releases the 6th one.

Andron
April 18th, 2011, 02:25 PM
I believe the plan is to have one season per novel. So far there are 4 books released with the 5th one, A Dance with Dragons, being released in July.

At the rate that GRRM is writing though, it looks like the HBO productions will catch up with the books before he releases the 6th one.

Yes, there will be 7 books in the A Song of Ice and Fire series (short aSoIaF). Btw. can't wait for July 12 to finally start reading A Dance with Dragons (book 5) :D
A little discours first, the aSoIaF books are organised in PoV chapters of the different characters.


As far as I know the TV series will be organised as followed:

The first season (10 episodes) will cover the events of A Game of Thrones.
The second season (12 episodes) will cover the events of A Clash of Kings.
The third and fourth season will cover the events of A Storm of Swords. The book is that long that it is impossible to be filmed in one season.
The fifth and sixth (and possibly the seventh) season will cover the events of A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons. These two books are actually one book split in two. Some of the events are happening at the same time in both books and not all of the character's stories (PoVs) are told in AFFC, so they got shifted to ADWD.
The eighth season will most likely cover the events of The Winds of Winter.
The nineth and maybe tenth season would cover the events of A Dream of Spring.

So guess would be that there will be 9 to 10 season of the TV series. Hopefully, we'll get to see the whole story on the TV screen...

_WraithQueen_
April 18th, 2011, 02:32 PM
The eighth season will most likely cover the events of The Winds of Winter.
The nineth and maybe tenth season would cover the events of A Dream of Spring.

So guess would be that there will be 9 to 10 season of the TV series. Hopefully, we'll get to see the whole story on the TV screen...
At least this puts a seven or eight year limit on when the next book comes out :D

Ukko
April 18th, 2011, 02:33 PM
Yes, there will be 7 books in the A Song of Ice and Fire series (short aSoIaF). Btw. can't wait for July 12 to finally start reading A Dance with Dragons (book 5) :D
A little discours first, the aSoIaF books are organised in PoV chapters of the different characters.


As far as I know the TV series will be organised as followed:

The first season (10 episodes) will cover the events of A Game of Thrones.
The second season (12 episodes) will cover the events of A Clash of Kings.
The third and fourth season will cover the events of A Storm of Swords. The book is that long that it is impossible to be filmed in one season.
The fifth and sixth (and possibly the seventh) season will cover the events of A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons. These two books are actually one book split in two. Some of the events are happening at the same time in both books and not all of the character's stories (PoVs) are told in AFFC, so they got shifted to ADWD.
The eighth season will most likely cover the events of The Winds of Winter.
The nineth and maybe tenth season would cover the events of A Dream of Spring.

So guess would be that there will be 9 to 10 season of the TV series. Hopefully, we'll get to see the whole story on the TV screen...

Hopefully hopefully hopefully!!! Would be sooooooo awesome if we got all 10!:D

_WraithQueen_
April 18th, 2011, 02:51 PM
Im planning on reading them between seasons and dont want to skip too far ahead and spoil the next season.
Just read this part and good luck with that. There is a reason I am waiting until the end of the exam period to start re-reading them again :p This will be the third time I've read them and I think I am looking forward to more than the first time. Although I am even more excited about July 12th rolling around (although I may have to rush through as the new dresden files book comes out in July too :D).

Randy_Watson
April 19th, 2011, 06:08 AM
Does anybody think Daenerys isn't Aerys daughter?

Andron
April 19th, 2011, 07:59 AM
Does anybody think Daenerys isn't Aerys daughter?

Why do you think?
I read some theories that suggest that she could also be Rhaegar's daughter.
So she would be Jon Snow's half-sister. Rhaegar and Lyanna Stark are Jon's parents, according to another theory.

I guess, only George R.R. Martin knows for sure ;)

Arative
April 19th, 2011, 08:06 AM
In case anyone is interested amazon has the first 4 books for $20
http://www.amazon.com/George-Martins-Thrones-4-Book-Boxed/dp/0345529057/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1303222133&sr=8-4&tag=vig-20

_WraithQueen_
April 19th, 2011, 08:16 AM
Why do you think?
I read some theories that suggest that she could also be Rhaegar's daughter.
So she would be Jon Snow's half-sister. Rhaegar and Lyanna Stark are Jon's parents, according to another theory.

I guess, only George R.R. Martin knows for sure ;)
I came across the theory that Tyrion is also related to them, and is the 3rd head of the three headed dragon. His father was the old kings hand so was around the family, it is possible that his wife had an affair with one of the dragon people, he has one violet eye, fascination with dragons and Tyrions fathers last words to him were "You are not my son" Also possible theory as to why he is deformed - Tyrions father gave his wife something to get rid of the baby because he found out it wasn't his, but it didn't really work

Randy_Watson
April 19th, 2011, 09:28 AM
Why do you think?
I read some theories that suggest that she could also be Rhaegar's daughter.
So she would be Jon Snow's half-sister. Rhaegar and Lyanna Stark are Jon's parents, according to another theory.

I guess, only George R.R. Martin knows for sure ;)

Yeah, not much of a reason, just was rereading and thought the fact that she was born 9 mos after exile could mean something. I'd heard the Jon discussions too. I guess the Tyrion thing could make some sense, but I can't say I'm a big fan of that.

Anyway, just speculation, I don't generally like to even think about these things so I don't ruin a surprise down the line.

magictrick
April 19th, 2011, 10:10 AM
I had no idea these theories were circulating. They are all interesting, although the Tyrion one seems far fetched (given that this is fantasy though I wouldn't rule it out).

I hope GRRM has more surprises in store for us in the books to come.

Andron
April 20th, 2011, 07:31 AM
The Podcast of Ice and Fire reviewed Winter is Coming (GoT 1.01). This podcast contains spoilers for all books.
http://podcastoficeandfire.com/?p=153

Really funny and insightful podcast :D

Randy_Watson
April 25th, 2011, 06:57 AM
Was Tyrion as like-able in the books so quickly? I seem to remember it taking a while to warm up to him, but maybe I'm imagining that.

magictrick
April 25th, 2011, 09:28 AM
Was Tyrion as like-able in the books so quickly? I seem to remember it taking a while to warm up to him, but maybe I'm imagining that.

I think it depends. I liked him pretty early on because he was quick witted and always had clever/funny/cynical things to say.

Celandine
April 25th, 2011, 09:48 AM
I've just picked up the first novel in the series today. I kept looking at it every time I went to the store because I was obviously fascinated with the concept, but never committed till now.

Can anyone answer as to how complicated the story line is? I mean, is it an easy read that absorbs you in the pages, or is it one of those that you need to read a bit slower to make sure you don't miss something vital for everything to gel and make sense?

magictrick
April 25th, 2011, 10:00 AM
Can anyone answer as to how complicated the story line is? I mean, is it an easy read that absorbs you in the pages, or is it one of those that you need to read a bit slower to make sure you don't miss something vital for everything to gel and make sense?

The whole series is written from different characters' point of view. These characters are not always in the same place but the action is happening concurrently most of the time. So I would say you need to pay attention to detail because the actions and events around one character affect the point of view of another. But the chapters don't always flow that way so you would need to remember what happened a couple chapters back.

Randy_Watson
April 25th, 2011, 10:20 AM
Yep, and it can get very hard to follow things from one book to the next. There is a lot going on. (in a good way)

Celandine
April 25th, 2011, 11:57 AM
The whole series is written from different characters' point of view. These characters are not always in the same place but the action is happening concurrently most of the time. So I would say you need to pay attention to detail because the actions and events around one character affect the point of view of another. But the chapters don't always flow that way so you would need to remember what happened a couple chapters back.


Yep, and it can get very hard to follow things from one book to the next. There is a lot going on. (in a good way)

Hmm, okay. Thanks. I was sort of thinking the same thing after thumbing through it earlier. I don't mind an involved storyline and character POV changing throughout, as long as it's written well so the reader doesnt get horribly lost or confused. It does give a broader view which isnt a bad thing.

Really looking forward to starting it, hopefully by tomorrow! Finishing up a Pratchett book and I be diving in then. :)

Andron
April 26th, 2011, 12:18 PM
News about ADWD, that the very long book won't be split in two volumes.
http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2011/04/bantam-confirms-that-adwd-will-not-be.html

GRRM is still not finished with the manuscript...

Cold Fuzz
April 26th, 2011, 07:22 PM
Was Tyrion as like-able in the books so quickly? I seem to remember it taking a while to warm up to him, but maybe I'm imagining that.

I read the book 7 years ago but I didn't have a very positive reaction to Tyrion at first. Spending time with Jon on the Wall though changed my opinion. I find Peter Dinklage's Tyrion much more likable from the start, especially with the way he slapped Joffrey around. :lol:

magictrick
April 27th, 2011, 05:49 AM
News about ADWD, that the very long book won't be split in two volumes.
http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2011/04/bantam-confirms-that-adwd-will-not-be.html

GRRM is still not finished with the manuscript...

He's not finished the manuscript but the release date has been set? I hope this doesn't mean a push back.

Andron
April 27th, 2011, 09:23 AM
George R. R. Martin has posted a picture of a fallen King Kong (his self-chosen metaphor for A Dance with Dragons). This suggests...but doesn't explicitly confirm...that GRRM may have finally finished writing the fifth A Song of Ice and Fire book.The long-overdue official announcement may follow soon.
http://grrm.livejournal.com/212603.html

2.5 months till the release :D

Andron
April 27th, 2011, 12:32 PM
Now the publisher confirmed it, ADWD is done :D
http://suvudu.com/2011/04/yes-it-is-done-really.html

Andron
April 28th, 2011, 10:26 AM
More proof that GRRM finished ADWD. Editor Anne Groell talks about receiving the GRRM manuscript in this video
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150176256242173&oid=161910773833999&comments

Angela V
April 29th, 2011, 10:46 PM
My husband has read all the books. He'll be happy to know the new one is FINALLY done :)

We were at the local pawn shop today. He saw the 1st 3 books for $3 each so picked them up. We now have a much smaller library to get books from so it was good to find them there. I also noticed the bloody things are THICK! He's started to re read the first book which is okay because he's a fast reader and I have to finish up my current library book anyway.

I'm PVRing the series and we'll wait to watch it over the summer when the kids are visiting grandparents so that we can watch them whenever like we did for Pilliars of the Earth.

Celandine
May 1st, 2011, 04:27 AM
OMG. Once I finished the book I was on, I started reading the first book in this series, Game of Thrones. I saw the heft of it and the print was tiny so thought it would take awhile to get through because I was forewarned that it was very detailed. Uh, no. It's a very easy read and I must applaud George R..R. Martin for taking a multi-character story with so much going on and weave it so effortlessly AND get you inside the head of so many people, viewing everything from their eyes and perspective.

For example, in the HBO series which I'm also watching in tandem, Tyrion wasn't as 'likable' compared to the book. He's now become my new favorite to watch out for.

Overall, very well pleased and am eagerly looking forward in the coming months to reading the rest of the books. :)

Ser Scot A Ellison
May 2nd, 2011, 02:33 PM
No. Four books have been released. A Dance With Dragons will be out 7/12/11. It is the fifth book in the series. Two more books are planned. The plan for the series is one book per season. However, many suspect ASOS the largest published book in the series (so far) will be split into two seasons. If ADWD is as long as everyone suspects it may get the same treatment.

Randy_Watson
May 5th, 2011, 01:01 PM
So, now that we are a few episodes in, what do you guys all think about the casting? Who are you let down by, and who are you surprised with?

For the most part, I've been happy. The only really big change, and it makes sense, is they had to tone down the idea of how super human some of the guys are. There just aren't a ton of believable huge men out there. I'm OK with that now, though the Hound just still doesn't seem bad-ass enough for me. (Granted, we've barely seen him)

Judging from this, and other forums, Tyrion, Arya, and Dany are all early leaders for best casting.

magictrick
May 5th, 2011, 02:20 PM
I think the casting has been great. I would agree about Tyrion, Arya, and Dany but I may also be biased because those are my favourite characters from the novels too :)

The guy they cast for The Mountain is actually huge, at 7 feet tall, so I'm looking forward to see how that plays out.

We haven't really gotten to see much of the Hound yet so I'll hold off on that judgement for now.

Randy_Watson
May 5th, 2011, 02:57 PM
Yeah, I'm excited to see the Mountain. The next episode should be pretty awesome in satisfying my "Bad-ass" quotient.

Oh, I forgot, Joffy is probably a perfect casting too. :lol:

Celandine
May 7th, 2011, 02:17 AM
All this talk of the Mountain! I've only just caught up to the end of last weeks episode in my reading so am quite intrigued to see this character.

Seven feet you say??

I can't really find fault with any of the characters cast thus far. Some are a little off in hair color and the age difference in the children I can certainly understand as well. So enjoying this series so much!

Don't understand how I missed reading this before, though. When was the first book published?

The Mighty 6 platoon
May 7th, 2011, 03:51 AM
Don't understand how I missed reading this before, though. When was the first book published?

1996. You're a little late to the books. :P

Andron
May 7th, 2011, 04:44 AM
Yeah, I'm excited to see the Mountain. The next episode should be pretty awesome in satisfying my "Bad-ass" quotient.

Oh, I forgot, Joffy is probably a perfect casting too. :lol:

As am I. It looks like the tourney of the Hand is in the next episode, so we'll get to see the Mountain as well as Loras for the first time. :)


1996. You're a little late to the books. :P

When did you read AGOT for the first time. For me it was last year, I know, I was late too. At least the wait for ADWD isn't taht long for me ;)

65 days till ADWD :D

The Mighty 6 platoon
May 7th, 2011, 07:53 AM
When did you read AGOT for the first time. For me it was last year, I know, I was late too. At least the wait for ADWD isn't taht long for me ;)

Ok, it was not in 1996 that was for sure, I was 9 years old at the time, and while an advanced reader even then :D, I think they were a little out of my league at the time. :P

I can’t exactly remember when I first started reading the series, maybe 3 or 4 years ago. In the end it doesn’t matter when you started reading the books, just that you do. :D

magictrick
May 7th, 2011, 03:46 PM
Can we discuss the other books in this thread? I'm already looking forward to how the events in the second book will play out on screen :D

But I don't want to be the one who posts massive spoilers for the folks who haven't read them and then get chased out of this forum :P

gotthammer
May 8th, 2011, 01:02 AM
Can we discuss the other books in this thread? I'm already looking forward to how the events in the second book will play out on screen :D


Next season: Cthulhu-worshipping Vikings! :D

Andron
May 8th, 2011, 01:52 AM
Can we discuss the other books in this thread? I'm already looking forward to how the events in the second book will play out on screen :D

But I don't want to be the one who posts massive spoilers for the folks who haven't read them and then get chased out of this forum :P

Isn't that the purpose of this thread to talk about the books... It says literally in the title Spoilers for everything
So I guess, you can post about any events you like.

I can't wait to see how some weddings play out... ;)

gotthammer
May 8th, 2011, 04:00 AM
I can't wait to see how some weddings play out... ;)

You mean the 'red' one? :D
Yeah...I just LOVE the Freys. /sarcasm
:lol:

I'm more excited/curious about how well they'll depict the various battles and sieges (particularly the one at King's Landing and Storm's End).
I'd also like to see the duel between the Viper and the Mountain.
...and The Blackfish and the Whispering Wood
...the action/s beyond the Wall.
...and Riverrun.
...and Harrenhal.
...and Dragonstone (was this described in the first book? Or later?).
...and the Onion Knight.
...and Stannis and Melisandre.
...and The Unsullied.
...and The Dragons.
...and The Eyrie.
...and Braavos.

...and the Greyjoys and their Iron Islands. I'm real excited to see the rest of them (Asha and crew, Damphair, Euron and his quiet crew, Victarion in plate, bloated Balon, etc.). :D

Yup. I can't wait for the next season...and the ones after that :D

Celandine
May 8th, 2011, 04:19 AM
Ok, it was not in 1996 that was for sure, I was 9 years old at the time, and while an advanced reader even then :D, I think they were a little out of my league at the time. :P

I can’t exactly remember when I first started reading the series, maybe 3 or 4 years ago. In the end it doesn’t matter when you started reading the books, just that you do. :D

Haha! Most definitely. I only first noticed the series when my local Borders book store put up a nice prominent display in the front aisle. I was drawn like a magnet. :P


You mean the 'red' one? :D
Yeah...I just LOVE the Freys. /sarcasm
:lol:

I'm more excited/curious about how well they'll depict the various battles and sieges (particularly the one at King's Landing and Storm's End).
I'd also like to see the duel between the Viper and the Mountain.
...and The Blackfish and the Whispering Wood
...the action/s beyond the Wall.
...and Riverrun.
...and Harrenhal.
...and Dragonstone (was this described in the first book? Or later?).
...and the Onion Knight.
...and Stannis and Melisandre.
...and The Unsullied.
...and The Dragons.
...and The Eyrie.
...and Braavos.

...and the Greyjoys and their Iron Islands. I'm real excited to see the rest of them (Asha and crew, Damphair, Euron and his quiet crew, Victarion in plate, bloated Balon, etc.). :D

Yup. I can't wait for the next season...and the ones after that :D

OMG. Need to read faster. :P

The Mighty 6 platoon
May 8th, 2011, 07:48 AM
I can't wait to see how some weddings play out... ;)

I can't wait for the inevitable internet explosion that will follow after they show a certain wedding. :D

Celandine
May 8th, 2011, 10:21 AM
Boo. Now I'm wondering in what book that might be. Tease!

magictrick
May 8th, 2011, 03:48 PM
You mean the 'red' one? :D
Yeah...I just LOVE the Freys. /sarcasm
:lol:


The Red Wedding should be epic. How can anyone dislike Walter Frey :D

I want to see the interactions between Arya and The Hound too. Same with Jaime and Brianne.

gotthammer
May 9th, 2011, 12:03 AM
The Red Wedding should be epic. How can anyone dislike Walter Frey :D

I want to see the interactions between Arya and The Hound too. Same with Jaime and Brianne.

Ooh. Yeah. I'm real curious as to how Brienne of Tarth will look like. (she's supposed to be 'BIG'. Not 'The Mountain' big, but still big :D ...big and 'homely')

fumblesmcstupid
May 11th, 2011, 05:07 PM
I had NO idea that there were books to the show. OMG I am SO addicted to the show (so is my brother) I know I'll be going to Borders in the morning and plow through book 1.

VampyreWraith
May 13th, 2011, 06:27 AM
I can't wait for the inevitable internet explosion that will follow after they show a certain wedding. :D

I was probably one of the few people who was satisfied with the outcome of that wedding. I felt worse for the wolf than I did for the human(s) involved. It's been awhile since I've read the first three books, so I might feel differently about some things now.



I can't wait for the 5th book to come out, I hate all the waiting. :P I started reading the series in 1997, I was 17. Arya and Jon were/are my favorite characters. I also really liked Tyrion and Littlefinger; and came to really like Jamie once he started spending less time around his sister, I really liked Brienne. I identifided with Arya, and Catelyn kind of reminded of my mother, and Robb reminded me of my brother for some reason lol. Catelyn and Robb were two of my least favorite characters; but I didn't really start to dislike Robb until the second book. I hated the way Catelyn treated Jon, (I had a massive crush on the character at the time), and the way she treated Arya really bothered me at that time too. Shes nicer on the tv series.

magictrick
May 13th, 2011, 07:18 AM
I was probably one of the few people who was satisfied with the outcome of that wedding. I felt worse for the wolf than I did for the human(s) involved. It's been awhile since I've read the first three books, so I might feel differently about some things now.



I can't wait for the 5th book to come out, I hate all the waiting. :P I started reading the series in 1997, I was 17. Arya and Jon were/are my favorite characters. I also really liked Tyrion and Littlefinger; and came to really like Jamie once he started spending less time around his sister, I really liked Brienne. I identifided with Arya, and Catelyn kind of reminded of my mother, and Robb reminded me of my brother for some reason lol. Catelyn and Robb were two of my least favorite characters; but I didn't really start to dislike Robb until the second book. I hated the way Catelyn treated Jon, (I had a massive crush on the character at the time), and the way she treated Arya really bothered me at that time too. Shes nicer on the tv series.

The question is how do you feel about Catelyn AFTER the wedding? Because that's when she gets interesting. I didn't pay much attention to her before and sort of just found her a little annoying.

The outcome of the wedding was disturbing but in terms of shock value and epicness (new word) it is hard to match.

VampyreWraith
May 13th, 2011, 07:42 AM
The question is how do you feel about Catelyn AFTER the wedding? Because that's when she gets interesting. I didn't pay much attention to her before and sort of just found her a little annoying.

The outcome of the wedding was disturbing but in terms of shock value and epicness (new word) it is hard to match.

After she was brought back? I found that interesting, but I liked that whole aspect of the story, not just her part in it.

See, I didn't really find it that shocking. I mean it was a good scene, but with they way things were going, and the way everyone was was playing everyone else, I expected a bad outcome(and I kind of wanted a bad outcome). With this series, whenever something bad happened, it really made sense for it to happen so it wasn't really surprising or shocking to me. Thats one of the things i really enjoyed about it, I personally was never left feeling that anything was unnecessary or, I was never like "why did they go and do that?"

magictrick
May 13th, 2011, 10:36 AM
After she was brought back? I found that interesting, but I liked that whole aspect of the story, not just her part in it.

See, I didn't really find it that shocking. I mean it was a good scene, but with they way things were going, and the way everyone was was playing everyone else, I expected a bad outcome(and I kind of wanted a bad outcome). With this series, whenever something bad happened, it really made sense for it to happen so it wasn't really surprising or shocking to me. Thats one of the things i really enjoyed about it, I personally was never left feeling that anything was unnecessary or, I was never like "why did they go and do that?"

I was surprised by it. By that point a lot had happened so I could sense something big was on the horizon. But the way it was described and detailed by GRRM was great and added shock value imo. It still fit great with the story though and added a whole new layer to a lot of characters' storylines which I thought was a big plus.

Still waiting for book 5 and onwards to see the full ramifications of this event.


By the way anyone thinking about Dany and her army...

Do you think she'll eventually be successful to come in and sweep over everyone and claim her throne?

Cold Fuzz
May 16th, 2011, 10:55 PM
Do you think she'll eventually be successful to come in and sweep over everyone and claim her throne?

This is speculation but...

I think that Daenerys and her Dothraki army are going to be essential in repelling an inevitable invasion from the Others and the Wildlings north of the Wall. I think that ultimate clash between ice and fire has always been coming.

magictrick
May 17th, 2011, 12:00 PM
This is speculation but...

I think that Daenerys and her Dothraki army are going to be essential in repelling an inevitable invasion from the Others and the Wildlings north of the Wall. I think that ultimate clash between ice and fire has always been coming.

Yea I think you're on to something there!

I realized everything is building up to this big showdown between the 7 kingdoms and the others and wildlings. Just not sure what role Dany, her army and dragons will play in all of it.

Cold Fuzz
May 17th, 2011, 04:44 PM
Yea I think you're on to something there!

I realized everything is building up to this big showdown between the 7 kingdoms and the others and wildlings. Just not sure what role Dany, her army and dragons will play in all of it.

I think it's inevitable.

And I get the feeling that Daenerys and Tyrion might be leading this army into Westeros together.

Andron
May 20th, 2011, 01:11 AM
GRRM posted some more details about the POVs and length of ADWD
http://grrm.livejournal.com/217066.html#cutid1
http://www.westeros.org/ASoWS/News/Entry/The_Dance_in_Detail/

52 days...

Shylodog
June 1st, 2011, 08:02 AM
Ok, so I am now up to page 4,000 in this over 7,000 page e-books series (thus far). I bought the book (it's a single file with 4 books in it) after having watched the Episode 107 sneek peek on HBO Go and was upset with myself for now having two weeks and no GoT to watch.

I now find myself getting irritated with people who expect me to do my job when I've got this wonderful story to be engrossed in. I mean, it's not MY fault they got their computers infected and need to do their jobs, now is it?

Oh, and my wife is continuing to get irritated at me, because all I do is sit around staring at my iPad all evening while she watches her "Project Launch My Designer" shows. Hey, can I help it if I'm more into what happens in Westeros than Manhattan? I mean sheesh!

I have to say that having watched the show first has helped lighten the load on my imagination. I have no problems substituting the actors from the show with the characters in the book. And the greatest thing is that when the latest book is released, I won't have had to wait an eternity for it to happen, since I've only JUST been introduced to the story. Yay Me! :D

The Mighty 6 platoon
June 1st, 2011, 08:05 AM
Ok, so I am now up to page 4,000 in this over 7,000 page e-books series (thus far). I bought the book (it's a single file with 4 books in it) after having watched the Episode 107 sneek peek on HBO Go and was upset with myself for now having two weeks and no GoT to watch.

I now find myself getting irritated with people who expect me to do my job when I've got this wonderful story to be engrossed in. I mean, it's not MY fault they got their computers infected and need to do their jobs, now is it?

Oh, and my wife is continuing to get irritated at me, because all I do is sit around staring at my iPad all evening while she watches her "Project Launch My Designer" shows. Hey, can I help it if I'm more into what happens in Westeros than Manhattan? I mean sheesh!

I have to say that having watched the show first has helped lighten the load on my imagination. I have no problems substituting the actors from the show with the characters in the book. And the greatest thing is that when the latest book is released, I won't have had to wait an eternity for it to happen, since I've only JUST been introduced to the story. Yay Me! :D
Yes I find myself with much the same problems. All these people in the real world are far too boring. Screw them I'm much more interested in what's happening in Westeros. :P

Lahela
June 1st, 2011, 10:35 AM
I'm champing at the bit for the next book, out just in time for my vacation by the beach. Hubby can take care of the kids while I dive back into Westeros :D

magictrick
June 8th, 2011, 06:23 AM
To prepare for the next novel, I just started skimming through the last 2 books to refresh my memory. There is so much I had forgotten. I couldn't even remember which POVs were featured in A Feast of Crows.

5 weeks to go!

VampyreWraith
June 8th, 2011, 11:09 AM
I still need to re- read/skim the first 4 books to refresh my memory before I read A Dance with Dragons too; I just haven't had much time lately. It's been around 7 or 8 yrs since the last time I read the first 3, and about 5 since I've read a Feast for Crows(but I think I've forgotten more stuff from this book than the other three; probably because I didn't like it as much). I've forgotten a lot of stuff, especially a lot of the secondary characters' names. I remember most of what happens, but just not all the details; and there are lots of little details. :P :D

I can't wait for A Dance with Dragons to come out; I'm also kind of tempted to go to the book signing in nyc on July 14th.

Ser Scot A Ellison
June 8th, 2011, 01:29 PM
I'm wondering how I'm going to interact with the rest of the world until after I've finished reading ADWD.

VW,


I can't wait for A Dance with Dragons to come out; I'm also kind of tempted to go to the book signing in nyc on July 14th.

Go, GRRM is really great with fans. I'm going to get my copy signed in August at the Reno Worldcon.

Shylodog
June 10th, 2011, 07:34 AM
Took me about 2 weeks to finish all 4 books. The fourth book I was just as engrossed in, however I felt cheated a bit. The lack of "main" character arcs was frustrating to me. Even some of the "secondary" characters were missing, and I was slightly displeased. What happened with Davos made me somewhat bitter because I could't validate in my head whether it was really him or not, due to lack of his character chapters.

I've already pre-ordered Dance with Dragons through the Apple Bookstore. :D

magictrick
June 10th, 2011, 08:19 AM
Took me about 2 weeks to finish all 4 books. The fourth book I was just as engrossed in, however I felt cheated a bit. The lack of "main" character arcs was frustrating to me. Even some of the "secondary" characters were missing, and I was slightly displeased. What happened with Davos made me somewhat bitter because I could't validate in my head whether it was really him or not, due to lack of his character chapters.

I've already pre-ordered Dance with Dragons through the Apple Bookstore. :D

A Feast of Crows and A Dance with Dragons were originally supposed to be one book but he broke out into 2 separate ones. I'm sure all the main characters you missed will be present in ADWD.

Shylodog
June 10th, 2011, 01:04 PM
A Feast of Crows and A Dance with Dragons were originally supposed to be one book but he broke out into 2 separate ones. I'm sure all the main characters you missed will be present in ADWD.

I'm wondering, given the 6 years that have passed, if that's really how he's going to play it out. I find myself less interested now in rehashing those events with the others perspective versus a continuation of the storyline.

Hopefully we'll just get flashbacks from the missing characters.

magictrick
June 10th, 2011, 04:52 PM
I'm wondering, given the 6 years that have passed, if that's really how he's going to play it out. I find myself less interested now in rehashing those events with the others perspective versus a continuation of the storyline.

Hopefully we'll just get flashbacks from the missing characters.

I think to advance the story line we would still need to see the perspective of those characters. The main characters that were omitted in AFOC can't just be skipped over, it isn't his style.

Cold Fuzz
June 15th, 2011, 08:41 PM
OK, I'm about 40% of the way through A Feast for Crows. At first I found the book a little tedious given the change from all the huge battles in books 2 and 3. However, I'm finding Cersei very... amusing. :P

Major spoilers for all the books:

I was laughing quite a bit with her getting drunk (shades of Robert there!) and then her wondering whether Margaery is the one in that witch's prophecy. What wonderful irony that Cersei seems to be on her way to acting like the man she most hated.

Now this is speculation, with all the intrigues at court, it suddenly occurred to me that by the time Dany crosses the Narrow Sea with her brood of dragons, she might not have any human enemies to oppose her. I think when she finally returns, she'll probably think, "WTF happened to my homeland?!" because:


She'll likely find all the nobles who would block her move are dead because they annihilated each other.
The Wall finally tumbled down from the Horn of Winter and the Others have obliterated an already weakened Westeros due to the War of the Five Kings and the endless political wrangling.
Most of the land north of the Twins is shackled in ice.
Instead of fighting the other nobles, she'll be shocked to be fighting an army of the living dead, lead by nearly invincible creatures of ice whose only 2 vulnerabilities are obsidian and fire.
In light of all this, she'll be viewed not as an invader but as a savior. Dragonfire won't be viewed as a threat to the people but a powerful weapon against the Others.

magictrick
June 15th, 2011, 09:17 PM
I was laughing quite a bit with her getting drunk (shades of Robert there!) and then her wondering whether Margaery is the one in that witch's prophecy. What wonderful irony that Cersei seems to be on her way to acting like the man she most hated.

Now this is speculation, with all the intrigues at court, it suddenly occurred to me that by the time Dany crosses the Narrow Sea with her brood of dragons, she might not have any human enemies to oppose her. I think when she finally returns, she'll probably think, "WTF happened to my homeland?!" because:


She'll likely find all the nobles who would block her move are dead because they annihilated each other.
The Wall finally tumbled down from the Horn of Winter and the Others have obliterated an already weakened Westeros due to the War of the Five Kings and the endless political wrangling.
Most of the land north of the Twins is shackled in ice.
Instead of fighting the other nobles, she'll be shocked to be fighting an army of the living dead, lead by nearly invincible creatures of ice whose only 2 vulnerabilities are obsidian and fire.
In light of all this, she'll be viewed not as an invader but as a savior. Dragonfire won't be viewed as a threat to the people but a powerful weapon against the Others.

Regarding Dany I was thinking the same thing starting back from the 3rd book. I realize she had her own adventure but it felt like she was totally sheltered from everything. And with characters dropping like flies it wouldn't have been surprising.

Ultimately, my thinking (and others as well) is

That the Others and Wildlings will eventually invade and it will be up to Jon and Dany to go into battle together to save the Seven Kingdoms.

VampyreWraith
June 15th, 2011, 09:35 PM
Ultimately, my thinking (and others as well) is

That the Others and Wildlings will eventually invade and it will be up to Jon and Dany to go into battle together to save the Seven Kingdoms.

Yep, that's how I see it too. I see Jon and Dany leading the fight, with Arya and maybe Tyrion (and possibly Bran too) helping out in a major way.

Cold Fuzz
June 15th, 2011, 09:35 PM
Regarding Dany I was thinking the same thing starting back from the 3rd book. I realize she had her own adventure but it felt like she was totally sheltered from everything. And with characters dropping like flies it wouldn't have been surprising.

Ultimately, my thinking (and others as well) is

That the Others and Wildlings will eventually invade and it will be up to Jon and Dany to go into battle together to save the Seven Kingdoms.

Yep, that's what I was thinking too. It'll be downright apocalyptic and I don't see any room in this war for the likes of Littlefinger, Varys, or most of the remaining nobles. I think they'll all destroy each other or be destroyed when the invaders from beyond the Wall finally come into Westeros. I have a feeling Tyrion still has a role to play though. I think he'll be helping Jon and Dany, with Jon leading the battered remnants of the Night's Watch as infantry, Tyrion and perhaps Ser Barristan Selmy leading cavalry, and Bran and the remaining Starks using their increasing magical abilities to also help in the coming war. I know that the people of Dorne will back Dany as they want "fire and blood" (the Targaryen motto). I also think that Dorne, especially the desert, will be a battleground as it'll likely be one of the last few warm places in Westeros after winter sets in.

starg8fans
June 18th, 2011, 05:06 AM
Sorry if I repeat anything that's been said before, but I only just started reading the books and I don't want to spoiler myself by reading the earlier posts.

I couldn't help but compare what scenes were left out/added/changed for the TV adaptation. Now, this is not a complaint at all, I think they did an amazing job of bringing the books to the screen. Still, there was one missing scene and one added scene that have me puzzled.

So Khal Drogo does live in palaces, and he does wear 'normal' clothes when he's in Pentos. They didn't show this on TV, which is a shame, because it makes his character so much more one-dimensional.

And was the scene with Tyrion whoring about before the feast really necessary? I'm at the point in the book where Jon Snow leaves for the Night's Watch, and until now Tyrion has only been portrayed as a scholar. He made one passing reference that by joining the Night's Watch he would put a whole host of whores out of business, but that was all. I wonder what the purpose was to set him up as such a leacher.

MattSilver 3k
June 22nd, 2011, 03:39 AM
Making my way through Clash of Kings now after reading through Game of Thrones. Goooood stuff. Already I'm wondering what will be trimmed or distilled or changed around for the series, and where episodes will end et cetera et cetera. For one, I think Peter Dinklage is probably going to get the top billing spot - Tyrion's getting a lot of coverage here, and is being ridiculously awesome as he does so (Getting rid of Slynt, uncovering Pycelle et cetera).

One thing that I like is how the series's new scenes are bolstering the book for me, becoming a sort-of mixed canon. I mean, the Renly stuff here is just classic when I remember the scene with him and Loras in episode five - he has a Rainbow Guard, for christ's sakes, and his wife... Just lol.

Ser Scot A Ellison
June 22nd, 2011, 12:24 PM
Guys

With regard to what's ahead:

I seriously doubt it will be a simple as everyone coming together to fight the Others. The political machinations will continue throughout the series. I will not shock me to see LF come out on top at the end of the day. Don't forget Tyrion, per GRRM, is one of the most sympathic "villains" he claims he's ever written. Don't be suprised if Tyrion ends up in a very dark place.

My two cents.

magictrick
June 22nd, 2011, 06:52 PM
Guys

With regard to what's ahead:

I seriously doubt it will be a simple as everyone coming together to fight the Others. The political machinations will continue throughout the series. I will not shock me to see LF come out on top at the end of the day. Don't forget Tyrion, per GRRM, is one of the most sympathic "villains" he claims he's ever written. Don't be suprised if Tyrion ends up in a very dark place.

My two cents.

I think the coming together will be anything but simple. There will likely be a lot of maneuvering and scheming still to come. But GRRM has been building up the threat from beyond the wall for so long now, it has to come to an epic peak at some point. If it does, there has to be some resistance from the other side, and what they have now won't cut it.

VampyreWraith
June 22nd, 2011, 07:34 PM
I think the coming together will be anything but simple. There will likely be a lot of maneuvering and scheming still to come. But GRRM has been building up the threat from beyond the wall for so long now, it has to come to an epic peak at some point. If it does, there has to be some resistance from the other side, and what they have now won't cut it.

^That. I wasn't picturing anything simple either.

MattSilver 3k
June 23rd, 2011, 03:55 AM
Stray Clash of Kings thoughts as I go through, wondering how season two will work out: One, the Battle of Blackwater Bay, with the wildfire and the boom chain, has to be shown in full. Reads as epic, will look epic. Two, Brienne is awesome, and I bet they'll do her justice in the series (Hell, probably have an attractive actress playing her somehow. Bonus). Three, Dany's storyline this book is... pretty out there, and I wonder how it'll look on screen or how they'll translate it as such. Four, I heard Robb and Jaime will be getting some expanded stuff in season two, Jaime's from Storm of Swords and Robb's just so we can see Richard Madden - I think a lot of Robb's will probably be reacting to Theon's betrayals while expositing on the battles he's fighting. I don't mind in the slightest.

magictrick
June 23rd, 2011, 05:15 AM
Stray Clash of Kings thoughts as I go through, wondering how season two will work out: One, the Battle of Blackwater Bay, with the wildfire and the boom chain, has to be shown in full. Reads as epic, will look epic. Two, Brienne is awesome, and I bet they'll do her justice in the series (Hell, probably have an attractive actress playing her somehow. Bonus). Three, Dany's storyline this book is... pretty out there, and I wonder how it'll look on screen or how they'll translate it as such. Four, I heard Robb and Jaime will be getting some expanded stuff in season two, Jaime's from Storm of Swords and Robb's just so we can see Richard Madden - I think a lot of Robb's will probably be reacting to Theon's betrayals while expositing on the battles he's fighting. I don't mind in the slightest.

I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with Robb's story line, since he's not a POV character and you only hear about his exploits through another main character.

As for the battle, I think most of us have great expectations for it. The battle is critical not only for its epic nature but also for the character actions that take place.

MattSilver 3k
June 23rd, 2011, 05:22 AM
I'm also going a little crazy wondering what scenes we'll see that are only described and restricted by the POV nature of things, and what new scenes we'll see. If they try and put Jon's or Dany's storylines over ten episodes (Or even eight of the ten), there'll be a bit of fleshing out going on, I'd think, especially for Halfhand in Jon's storyline to make it more tragic by the end. And even not, we'll still have room for more Davos or some Littlefinger or...

Long story short, a lot of people have wondered if ten episodes is too little to show everything from this book. I say it'll do just fine - off the top of my head, the only storyline that might get cut down a little is Bran's and his wolf dreams, but I hope not. Ugh, next year's season is too far away... and I haven't even started the third book yet!

Lahela
June 23rd, 2011, 06:36 AM
Brienne is awesome.

*nod nod* She very quickly became one of my favourite characters. Awesome indeed :)

magictrick
June 23rd, 2011, 07:39 AM
Long story short, a lot of people have wondered if ten episodes is too little to show everything from this book. I say it'll do just fine - off the top of my head, the only storyline that might get cut down a little is Bran's and his wolf dreams, but I hope not. Ugh, next year's season is too far away... and I haven't even started the third book yet!

That's nothing to complain about, you've still got 3 books of greatness to keep you busy :P

Ser Scot A Ellison
June 23rd, 2011, 01:05 PM
Matt,


Stray Clash of Kings thoughts as I go through, wondering how season two will work out: One, the Battle of Blackwater Bay, with the wildfire and the boom chain, has to be shown in full. Reads as epic, will look epic. Two, Brienne is awesome, and I bet they'll do her justice in the series (Hell, probably have an attractive actress playing her somehow. Bonus). Three, Dany's storyline this book is... pretty out there, and I wonder how it'll look on screen or how they'll translate it as such. Four, I heard Robb and Jaime will be getting some expanded stuff in season two, Jaime's from Storm of Swords and Robb's just so we can see Richard Madden - I think a lot of Robb's will probably be reacting to Theon's betrayals while expositing on the battles he's fighting. I don't mind in the slightest.

I forgot that Robb is barely in ACOK. You see him in the begining and then he disappears until the start of ASOS.

Cold Fuzz
June 23rd, 2011, 07:01 PM
Stray Clash of Kings thoughts as I go through, wondering how season two will work out: One, the Battle of Blackwater Bay, with the wildfire and the boom chain, has to be shown in full. Reads as epic, will look epic. Two, Brienne is awesome, and I bet they'll do her justice in the series (Hell, probably have an attractive actress playing her somehow. Bonus). Three, Dany's storyline this book is... pretty out there, and I wonder how it'll look on screen or how they'll translate it as such. Four, I heard Robb and Jaime will be getting some expanded stuff in season two, Jaime's from Storm of Swords and Robb's just so we can see Richard Madden - I think a lot of Robb's will probably be reacting to Theon's betrayals while expositing on the battles he's fighting. I don't mind in the slightest.

We really need to see the Blackwater Battle rendered... and rendered well. Stannis getting his ass handed to him through Tyrion's plans is too good to pass up. I'm looking forward to seeing Dany in Qarth. We've been treated to Pentos, Vaes Dothrak, and various places in the Dothraki Sea but a large city like Qarth is a good dose of Essos, and seeing how different the eastern lands are from the rest of Westeros, especially with those warlocks.

I'd like to eventually see is Asshai and the Shadow Lands. We've gotten little hints about this mysterious domain. I get the feeling that Dany will end up out there somehow. It may be her way home is to go east and not west. With magical forces brewing in the background, this could very well happen.

On a rather random note: Does anyone else get the sense that R'hllor isn't what his followers make him out to be? He's called the Lord of Light, Heart of Fire, etc. which on the surface might seem like a good thing, especially with how Dany seems to be fulfilling the Azor Ahai prophecy. However, I can't help but think that R'hllor is a deceiver and that neither he nor the Great Other are what we think. Yes, I'm suspicious when it comes to the religious stuff. :P

MattSilver 3k
June 23rd, 2011, 08:53 PM
R'Hollaorantgmakfm is the Ori. Hallowed are the Ori.

But hey, if his preistesses are as hot as my mental image of Mellisandre is, I'll sign up.

Lahela
June 23rd, 2011, 09:30 PM
On a rather random note: Does anyone else get the sense that R'hllor isn't what his followers make him out to be? He's called the Lord of Light, Heart of Fire, etc. which on the surface might seem like a good thing, especially with how Dany seems to be fulfilling the Azor Ahai prophecy. However, I can't help but think that R'hllor is a deceiver and that neither he nor the Great Other are what we think. Yes, I'm suspicious when it comes to the religious stuff. :P

Absolutely - there has been something that has felt... off about the whole thing since the beginning. That may just be my natural suspicion of anyone claiming to be a saviour, but I suspect there are some nasty magical intent-on-world-domination machinations going on. But I don't think Mellisandre is evil, I think she honestly believes in her god.

Mind you, the more I try to speculate or hypothesize, the more I doubt that I'm anywhere close to what GRRM is going to do! :)

Shylodog
June 23rd, 2011, 09:34 PM
R'Hollaorantgmakfm is the Ori. Hallowed are the Ori.

But hey, if his preistesses are as hot as my mental image of Mellisandre is, I'll sign up.

Someone partial to redheads? :)

MattSilver 3k
June 23rd, 2011, 11:15 PM
Holy **** Sam just killed an Other. Awe-some.

MattSilver 3k
June 25th, 2011, 05:12 AM
More stray thoughts as I go through Storm of Swords. If at any time people want me to start using spoiler-tags, for whatever reason, tell me now.
So...
- Jaime's POV may not have the best events happening in them, but it's probably my favourite character to follow, simply because of the pure snark. The stuff with Brienne is priceless.
- Red. Wedding. :( :( :( And what they did to Robb and Gray Wind and Cat afterwards... Beyond cruel. Heart pounding to read it happen, and absolutely brutal to hear about afterwards.
- Poor Sansa. Just... Poor Sansa. Thank ye Gods Tyrion's not doing anything force-y with her.
- Mormont Sr's and Ygritte's deaths were ouch. I wonder who'll play Ygritte in the series... Another pretty redhead!
- I wonder how the show's going to hide Barristan's identity as Artisan. Same actor, prosthetics and a different name at the end credits? Or just let the audience know right away and leave Dany and Jorah to figure it out as they do in the book? Either way, I didn't see that reveal coming, and it was wicked awesome.
- Davos man, I love you and all, but I think you're heading the way of Ned Stark. :(
- Back to the Red Wedding (:(), I wonder how it'll look on screen. Brutal as all hell, I'd bet, and I'd kinda like to see Gray Wind's last stand too...

Ugh, this series. So awesome.

EDIT: Damn. I was hoping Joffrey's death would be more bloody than that, but ahh well. Goood times. :D

Lahela
June 25th, 2011, 07:29 AM
'Tis mightily fun reliving the books with you as you read them, Matt :D

MattSilver 3k
June 25th, 2011, 07:34 AM
Lol I'd bet. Just finished up the very hilarious wedding night of Littlefinger and Lysa... God I hope that remains as is in the show. Hilarious.

Also, dat Mountain Vs Red Viper fight. :D And to think I thought Tyrion would get out of this one...

VampyreWraith
June 25th, 2011, 09:23 AM
Matt,



I forgot that Robb is barely in ACOK. You see him in the begining and then he disappears until the start of ASOS.

I forgot that too; the events in ACOK and ASOS blend together in my head, and I haven't gotten around to rereading them yet(I can't find where I put my books). I keep thinking that certain things happened in ACOK, but they probaly don't happen until ASOS. I remember most of what happens, but not really when/what book.

When would Robb have met his wife(ACOK or ASOS)? I think(but don't really remember) that Catelyn finds out from Robb when he gets back(in ASOS?)since he doesn't have POV chapters we don't see their meeting(Robb and his wife's), but would it have happened during ACOK? I'm confused lol. I know he met her while he was off fighting; he defeated her father in battle, she treated his wounds(and possibly drugged him with some kind of love potion), he took her virginity, and so felt the need to marry her, despite being in contract to marry someone else; giving Frey the final excuse he needed for the red wedding.

magictrick
June 25th, 2011, 01:51 PM
EDIT: Damn. I was hoping Joffrey's death would be more bloody than that, but ahh well. Goood times. :D

Yea I was looking forward to a more gruesome ending, but he still got what he deserved in the end.

MattSilver 3k
June 25th, 2011, 04:09 PM
When would Robb have met his wife(ACOK or ASOS)? I think(but don't really remember) that Catelyn finds out from Robb when he gets back(in ASOS?)since he doesn't have POV chapters we don't see their meeting(Robb and his wife's), but would it have happened during ACOK? I'm confused lol. I know he met her while he was off fighting; he defeated her father in battle, she treated his wounds(and possibly drugged him with some kind of love potion), he took her virginity, and so felt the need to marry her, despite being in contract to marry someone else; giving Frey the final excuse he needed for the red wedding.

He introduced Jeyne to Catelyn early in ASoS, so fell in love and all that back in ACoK, so it's possible that his season two arc in the show - if they show it - will be the Jeyne thing.

One positive about me reading the books: I can correct people now. I'm the freshest head we've got, so I can correct people about stuff! Have no fear, all! I will save you.

EDIT: And Tyrion just killed Tywin! That was boss. "Did not **** gold". Wow. Caruso one-liner.

VampyreWraith
June 25th, 2011, 05:03 PM
He introduced Jeyne to Catelyn early in ASoS, so fell in love and all that back in ACoK, so it's possible that his season two arc in the show - if they show it - will be the Jeyne thing.

One positive about me reading the books: I can correct people now. I'm the freshest head we've got, so I can correct people about stuff! Have no fear, all! I will save you.

EDIT: And Tyrion just killed Tywin! That was boss. "Did not **** gold". Wow. Caruso one-liner.

Thanks for saving me with your book knowledge! :P :D (I'd completely forgotten the girl's name, so thanks for reminding me of that too lol.) :) I was asking about it, because I was wondering if it might be part of Robb's arc next season. I think getting to see things(not just the Robb/Jeyne thing) from Robb's pov on the tv series will be interesting. :)

MattSilver 3k
June 25th, 2011, 05:12 PM
It'll certainly make things more brutal come Red Wedding when we know the guy all the more.

Also, Littlefinger, you magnificent bastard. Never put much stock in you, especially after betraying Ned, but teaming with the Tyrells and manipulating Lysa like that was deftly done. Just stop creepin' on Sansa now, K? It weirds me out.

gotthammer
June 26th, 2011, 09:49 AM
Just stop creepin' on Sansa now, K? It weirds me out.

Hehehe, I doubt that will ever change. I mean, he's probably thinking: "Hmm...since I can't have her mommy, and Sansa is probably going to be prettier, anyway (right?)...." :D

MattSilver 3k
June 27th, 2011, 07:38 AM
Just finished Feast For Crows. Took me a week to down all four, but a very well-spent week. More thoughts to follow after I get some sleep, including a tour of what I thought would happen after seeing spoilers here and there, and how I got proven wrong time and time again.

magictrick
June 27th, 2011, 07:45 AM
Hehehe, I doubt that will ever change. I mean, he's probably thinking: "Hmm...since I can't have her mommy, and Sansa is probably going to be prettier, anyway (right?)...." :D

The guy made his living off running pleasure houses, what else would you expect from him :D

MattSilver 3k
June 27th, 2011, 08:41 PM
Ooookaaaaaay, who wants to read something long-winded? I'll spoiler tag it because of that. Basically, the following is my thoughts on the books, on how I thought things would turn out because of spoilers I'd read, how things might be translated from book to show, and what I think's coming up next. It'll be a fun read, I'm sure.

First off, I don't really think the series is as "Kill 'Em All" as described. Seriously, my thoughts as I go will show y'all how many characters I expected to die because of being constantly told that Martin's not afraid to kill people off. I'm not saying he's not afraid - Ned and Robb speak to that - but it's not as bad as I expected, and that's not a disappointment; That so many rich characters are still alive is a great thing to me. It's a harsh world, but not as harsh as I was expecting. Still rockin', though.

Now, I started the show first, and discussion threads on various forums managed to drop several spoilers as they went, those prats. I knew Ned would die going into it because of a YouTube comment, for example. I knew there was something big in Book Three called the "Red Wedding". I knew that Robb and Cat would be killed - I originally thought they were to be killed in book two (Where people had said Theon betrayed them), but yeah. I also knew that the Freys were considered evil murdering bastards... Stuff like that. Not everything, as we find out...

Okay, my original envisioning for Book Two was the War of Five Kings (Again, spoiled). At first I didn't know who the kings were, but I guessed from a casting call for Mellisandre in season two of the show that one was Stannis Baratheon. The others? I figured Robert as one (But then he died, so Joffrey), Renly as another, Robb as a fourth... and oddly, I thought it was either Dany or Cat that would be the fifth. But, you know, having it be Balon kinda clicked that Theon would betray the gang because of his father (Of course, in the actual book, he mostly did it out of glory for himself, by the looks of things. It read as unclear). Anyways, I also first learnt about Brienne from the casting call for season two, and had her painted as a retainer of Renly's from a gladiator place or something, and not as the noble and naive, yet awesome, maiden that would come into Cat's employ.

Now, the Red Wedding... I never connected it between the Freys and Robb and Cat's death, despite the fact there was to be a marriage between one of the Freys and Robb... My mental image of the Red Wedding had a lot to do with the name - Red as in Red Keep, in King's Landing, or red as in Lannister Red. The Red Wedding in my head? Sansa and Joffrey's wedding, where Robb (And maybe Cat) would be brought forward and beheaded as part of the ceremony, just to **** with Sansa. That would've been brutal, but the Freys betrayal with Bolton and Tywin helping is just as, and the whole Jeyne Westerling angle was something that shocked me, though I liked it (Mostly because it gives Robb the same flaw Ned did - honour - and it gets him killed).

I think characters arcs are the parts where I got the most wrong from my speculation. Lots of characters, lots of things to ponder, but I knew that at least Cersei, Tyrion Jon, Dany and Arya would be alive by the end of book four. And funnily enough, given the fact I was led to believe in a massive kill count, they were all I thought would be alive at the end of that book out of the POV characters. Yep. I was a bit iffy on Bran and Sansa, but I thought Jaime had died, Theon had died, Brienne and Davos had died... Well, I might not be wrong on the latter two, but we'll get to that.

So yeah. I knew Joffrey would die, but not how he did. I read that he had to be put down by Littlefinger and the Tyrells, and while that did happen, I kinda imagined it differently. Bare with me, so...

I thought Book Three, introducing Jaime's POV, would be a redemption for Jaime's character. While it was, I figured it would end with him dead because of something Cersei did, that would also end with Tyrion on the run (Read that somewhere). I knew book four had Cersei's POV, and I thought she too would be running in that book, or something. I dunno - it actually comes back to Sansa. So yeah, I didn't see her marrying Tyrion at all - well, not til I was spoilered - so I figured she'd be raped by Joffrey (:() on their wedding night after he killed her brother in front of her, and she would be accosted by Littlefinger into helping kill Joffrey in book four. That Sansa left King's Landing was a surprise, though I knew she would be with Littlefinger... Who I thought would be killed at the end of book four, by the Hound. With a sword through the throat.

This is a strange kinda link. I realised that one of the threads I frequent has book readers who are completely forgetful about things. They would honestly sit there and ask each other if Mormont Sr was killed in the second book or the third, or wonder if Littlefinger got stabbed in the throat ("Hey, but wasn't the Hound dead at that point?"). It was a lot like that. Because of that false spoiler/some idiot, I thought that the final death of Joffrey would play out with him in the throne room, his Kingsguard and the Hound... Versus Brienne and Loras Tyrell, and somebody else. Littlefinger would be present (Council business?), he'd get killed right off for his betrayal, and Loras and Brienne would take down Joffrey, run Cersei out of the city, and hold the Iron Throne down for Dany to come claim it. The events of this would be from Sansa's POV or something. I dunno.

Obviously didn't work out like that, huh? :P

Some more thoughts: Wolf dreams were something I didn't see coming, but it was good that Bran got something to do with that - I always figured there was a bit of prophet in him, so yeah. Going out past the Wall? Probably not the best idea. Figured Arya would be heading for Braavos, but I thought it was going to be a legacy of Syrio's, not after apprenticing under the Hound and becoming completely insane, not to mention all that Faceless Man mumbo jumbo I don't quite understand but still like...

Tyrion's arc was my greatest surprise, and it was most awesome because of it. He went to some damn dark places in the second and third books, and I loved it. Making him the Hand for Book Two was something I never considered - I thought he'd just chill for a bit or something. Davos was another surprise, as was Stannis. I love Davos, following in Ned's footsteps and all, but I thought his arc would be more about... Actually, what it is now: freeing Stannis from Mellisandre, kinda. That Stannis would go to the Wall, or that he wasn't sleeping with Mellisandre (In my defence, he's a Baratheon) were the shocks. Either way, love Davos, and Brienne too - she was a lot more naive than I pictured, but still awesome, and I hope like hell she survives being hanged. If not... :(

Jon and Dany I knew were going to stick around, and they are. I think they're heading for something together - yeah, I'm going with the "L + R = J" theory. I also think that Arya will kill one of Dany's dragons, and Jon and Dany's fallout from that will be a big event in the endgame - if Dany will kill Arya for it, what Jon would sacrifice for that... I think, anyway. I can't really predict - we have three books to go and quite a bit to tie up together... If this is just a prequel series, I'll rage.

So yeah. There you all have it. That right there is what happens when a TV show goer reads some spoilers, dreams up scenarios and then goes to read the books. So much fun to be had, so many theories and imagined scenarios shattered and replaced with awesome-r ones... I don't think I'll ever hate anything the TV show does compared to the book. They're different animals, and while the TV show might distill some things (Which is great) but doesn't go into inner thoughts that much (Which is expected of the medium), something that doesn't happen in the show doesn't mean it didn't happen in the books. It's not like deciding to cut a character or skip a battle will be the worst thing in the world. I'll be forgiving of it, personally, because we should be so lucky to even get an adaptation as awesome as this one.

I'm glad the TV show was what I went with first. The visual medium helps so much, and reading the books in character voices from the show makes it better - like Jorah. Iain Glen's Jorah voice is always with me when I read his stuff in the book.

So yeah. Can't wait for ADWD. Should be rockin' - I heard that it'll be as long as ASOS, which I don't mind in the slightest! Bring it on. :cool:

magictrick
June 27th, 2011, 08:57 PM
Your idea for Joffrey's death would have been epic. I think GRRM avoids the "showdown" scenario though.

With regards to killing off characters, he's got to let some live for the story to continue. The pattern seems to be that a few bite the dust in each book, so I guess we should expect the numbers to dwindle in ADWD.

I'm probably one of those people that doesn't remember which book certain events happened in. But its because I haven't read them in so long, and I also try not to post my comments on events that I don't remember. For the exact reason you mentioned which is not to confuse other people :P

MattSilver 3k
June 27th, 2011, 09:06 PM
Yeah, if there's anything this fandom's taught me... It's that they don't actually remember much. Now I'm here, and I know I won't forget. :D

Cold Fuzz
June 27th, 2011, 09:54 PM
He introduced Jeyne to Catelyn early in ASoS, so fell in love and all that back in ACoK, so it's possible that his season two arc in the show - if they show it - will be the Jeyne thing.

One positive about me reading the books: I can correct people now. I'm the freshest head we've got, so I can correct people about stuff! Have no fear, all! I will save you.

EDIT: And Tyrion just killed Tywin! That was boss. "Did not **** gold". Wow. Caruso one-liner.

By the middle of book 2, I actually started to expect Tyrion to eventually somehow break away from his family. I think there was always that amount of tension between him and everybody else. I could feel it coming with how he was able to outwit Cersei at her own game for much of book 2. But the way his fortunes changed in book 3 made me wonder if he'd "switch sides" as it were and start working for the Lannisters' enemies.

But the way he did broke away from the rest of the Lannister clan was definitely something I didn't expect. Shooting Tywin with a crossbow in his groin (well not quite down there but pretty close) was some poetic justice.


It'll certainly make things more brutal come Red Wedding when we know the guy all the more.

Also, Littlefinger, you magnificent bastard. Never put much stock in you, especially after betraying Ned, but teaming with the Tyrells and manipulating Lysa like that was deftly done. Just stop creepin' on Sansa now, K? It weirds me out.

I think that Littlefinger's mentally superimposing Cat's face every time he spends time with her. That kind of mental porn is very Littlefinger-ish I think.

As for LF's claims that Sansa is somehow going to win back Winterfell, I'll believe that when one of Dany's dragons starts spitting out ice instead of fire. :P

Cold Fuzz
June 27th, 2011, 10:01 PM
R'Hollaorantgmakfm is the Ori. Hallowed are the Ori.

But hey, if his preistesses are as hot as my mental image of Mellisandre is, I'll sign up.

I'm sure there'll be opportunities to sign up in the next R'hllorapalooza tour of Westeros.


Absolutely - there has been something that has felt... off about the whole thing since the beginning. That may just be my natural suspicion of anyone claiming to be a saviour, but I suspect there are some nasty magical intent-on-world-domination machinations going on. But I don't think Mellisandre is evil, I think she honestly believes in her god.

Mind you, the more I try to speculate or hypothesize, the more I doubt that I'm anywhere close to what GRRM is going to do! :)

Now that I'm nearing the end of book 4, my opinion of the whole R'hllor situation is that there's a good deal of truth in its faith, especially with Dany more and more fitting the Azor Ahai prophecy and her being a benevolent force in Essos. However, I think that Mellisandre is gravely misguided or flat-out evil. Propping up Stannis and the fratricide with Renly, not to mention "birthing" a shadow... ugh. :S I think that Thoros is more in-line with what the R'hllor faith had in mind for their clerics.


On a random note: Like Matt, I end up thinking of Iain Glen whenever Jorah's parts in the books come up. He does have a distinctive voice that's very hard to forget.

MattSilver 3k
June 27th, 2011, 10:09 PM
I also can't help but think about the Emmys Peter Dinklage will get shunned for as events go on. I mean, gawd, you just know he's going to rock it and probably still get shunned.

Cold Fuzz
June 27th, 2011, 10:53 PM
I also can't help but think about the Emmys Peter Dinklage will get shunned for as events go on. I mean, gawd, you just know he's going to rock it and probably still get shunned.

The idea of Peter Dinklage being the only person able to play Tyrion was cemented when I first saw him Impslap Joffrey. :D As for being snubbed at the Emmys, they unfortunately do that to many worthy actors and actresses and reward those who play their own little games of celebrity politics despite the fact that these people often appear in shows many of us would just dismiss as drek.

MattSilver 3k
June 27th, 2011, 11:15 PM
Also, you know the one thing that kinda irks me? Littlefinger has all his little fingers still. When I first heard the name, I figured he lost one of them in some kind of gambling debt, but nope! Then I figured he'd lose one later... Nope!

Cold Fuzz
June 27th, 2011, 11:25 PM
Also, you know the one thing that kinda irks me? Littlefinger has all his little fingers still. When I first heard the name, I figured he lost one of them in some kind of gambling debt, but nope! Then I figured he'd lose one later... Nope!

There's still ample opportunity for that in the coming books. I personally think that GRRM won't be able to complete the series with just 7 books btw and that it'll go to 8 or maybe 9. It could be that in one of those books, Littlefinger will finally part with a little finger. ;) Either that or he'll have a gash that he and Varys will be able to commiserate about. :P

MattSilver 3k
June 27th, 2011, 11:40 PM
Lol we can only hope. Just noticed your Grenn avatar again... I got dibs on a Dolorous Edd avatar when he shows up. That guy's a classic. :P

Cold Fuzz
June 27th, 2011, 11:50 PM
Lol we can only hope. Just noticed your Grenn avatar again... I got dibs on a Dolorous Edd avatar when he shows up. That guy's a classic. :P

I chose Grenn because... well, I look a little like him in real life, especially with my beard the way it is right now. :weiranime42:

Edd's all yours. He was great. :D I remember his comments about the dead: The dead are likely dull fellows, full of tedious complaints. :lol: I'm wondering who they'll be casting for him.

MattSilver 3k
June 28th, 2011, 12:14 AM
My mental image of Edd was like Haig Sutherland - Riley from SGU. I'd bet on some unknown guy playing him, and playing him well.

MattSilver 3k
June 28th, 2011, 01:24 AM
Also, I'm re-reading all the prophecies over on Westeros.Org (http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/Prophecies), and man do a lot of them foreshadow the Red Wedding or what! Like Dany's vision quest thingie:


The second is a room filled with savagely slaughtered corpses which appear to have been attending a feast. A dead man with the head of a wolf, wearing an iron crown and holding a leg of lamb like a king might hold a sceptre, sits at a throne, his eyes looking at Dany with mute appeal.

:(

And a quote from Patchface the Fool:


"Fool's blood, king's blood, blood on the maiden's thigh, but chains for the guests and chains for the bridegroom, aye aye aye."

In order: Aegon, the grandson Cat kills, Robb's blood, Roslin (Edmure's wife) losing her maidenhead, people getting captured, and Edmure's capture. Wow.

And one on Cat's death and resurrection:


"I dreamt of a roaring river and a woman that was a fish. Dead she drifted, with red tears on her cheeks, but when her eyes did open, oh, I woke from terror. All this I dreamt, and more."

Hitokage
June 28th, 2011, 07:22 AM
hey guys dont know if it was mention here but I have a question...is there somewhere using of magic? yeah we saw a blood magic but I mean some wizards with fireballs or lightning

magictrick
June 28th, 2011, 09:43 AM
hey guys dont know if it was mention here but I have a question...is there somewhere using of magic? yeah we saw a blood magic but I mean some wizards with fireballs or lightning

There is magic, but not wizards and fireballs.

- Melisandre has magical abilities to summon things.
- There's the guy who can sometimes revive the dead (forget his name). I'm sure MattSilver knows.
- The Others are obviously magical. They can kill you and you turn zombie-like (example at the Wall where Jon kills one)
- Bran and Rickon have some sort of magical ability, either just to foresee future events or even more.

MattSilver 3k
June 28th, 2011, 04:01 PM
Thoros of Myr, the Red Priest, was able to give the Kiss of Life to Beric Dondarion six or seven times.

Cold Fuzz
June 28th, 2011, 06:52 PM
Aerys had his pyromancers, though they weren't exactly throwing fireballs or anything. Interesting thing is that their fuel for wildfire became more and more potent throughout the course of the books. Seems like Dany's dragons coming into the world opened the door for more magic.

Hitokage
June 29th, 2011, 02:18 AM
hmm I see thx guys

Skydiver
July 1st, 2011, 03:54 PM
A little note about the new book. Apparently it has been leaked and people are posting spoilers in other places. Just to lay it out, here are the rules about that situation


I know the official board is banning/gagging people for talking about the spoilers. I'm not inclined to do that here, simply because, well there's maybe a couple dozen people talking about it. that said, my 'rules' are that ANY AND ALL spoilers about that book - if someone just HAS to post them, must be in a singular thread and appropriately marked.

I don't consider it a banning offense, however I hope that anyone that gets their hands on the book will simply keep their peace and respect the other fans and the author by not spilling the spoilers all over the place.

Now, anyone that does post untagged spoilers or puts them in PM's or VM's....that IS against the rules. Anyone does that to you, please report it so that we can deal with it.

Lahela
July 10th, 2011, 10:14 AM
Getting seriously antsy here... the day after tomorrow... :eek:

Shylodog
July 10th, 2011, 11:13 AM
Same here. I keep checking my iBook just in case they 'oops' and release it early. heh

VampyreWraith
July 10th, 2011, 11:25 AM
Same here. I keep checking my iBook just in case they 'oops' and release it early. heh


lol I keep doing that with my nook. I'm hoping it's available just after midnight so I can spend the night reading it.

MattSilver 3k
July 10th, 2011, 07:41 PM
/twitches

Lahela
July 10th, 2011, 09:27 PM
I've ordered two versions - hardcover and kindle for mac... couldn't wait for amazon to deliver the hardcover :o

Ser Scot A Ellison
July 11th, 2011, 04:40 AM
My copy is in the delivery pipe. I should have it at the latest by tomorrow.

MattSilver 3k
July 11th, 2011, 05:50 AM
Still twitching and itching for some Dancing. Oh, and relevant, one and all:

http://i.imgur.com/6zj21.jpg

MattSilver 3k
July 11th, 2011, 11:08 PM
And now, I, Matt Silver the 3rd K, is DANCING WITH THE DRAGONS. HELL YEAH.

Will keep thoughts in spoiler tags, so don't fret. (HELL YEAH).

gotthammer
July 12th, 2011, 01:23 AM
While I am still interested...I'm not too excited. I started reading the series, what, 2002? 2003?
And the wait between ASoS and AFfC kinda caused my interest to wane (that and the local AGoT CCG/LCG gaming group died...I wouldn't have picked up the books that early if it hadn't been for the card game).
The HBO series kinda rekindled the interest, for sure, but the thought of another long wait... :D

I will get the book, but maybe not on release...(unless I get dragged there: my friend wants to use my discount card at the bookstore for his copy of ADwD :D )
...or I could borrow his copy (all my copies are in trade paperback, anyway. I got my AFfC when it was already on 'sale').

Hehehe, I'll probably end up skipping to just the Greyjoy parts again (like I did w/ AFfC, which I still haven't finished :D )

Lahela
July 12th, 2011, 02:31 AM
My Kindle version is on my mac, my hardcover is in the post :D

Ser Scot A Ellison
July 12th, 2011, 04:41 AM
Mine has been "out for delivery" since 12:34 AM EST.

magictrick
July 12th, 2011, 06:06 AM
Will pick up when paperback is available. I've got the other 4 in paperback as well so gotta stay consistent. Until then, I will have to try to stay away from this thread :D

Shylodog
July 12th, 2011, 06:49 AM
My purchase was available last night at about 10pm PST. I was so excited! I got to go to bed reading about Tyrion's adventures! (Don't worry, not gonna spoil anyone)

I'm so excited! I'll be reading while at work today in between imaging 30 computers. :D

VampyreWraith
July 12th, 2011, 02:44 PM
I first noticed that it was in my nook library lat night at around 1:30am(est). I spent most of the night reading it, I couldn't stop once I started. I've got a nasty habit of reading chapters out of order. I really like it though, and the wait for the next book is going to probably kill me lol. At least there's the HBO series to pass the time and keep some things fresh in my mind until whenever the next book comes out. :)
I'm silly lol, I haven't even finished reading this book and I'm already itching for the next one. :D

Lahela
July 12th, 2011, 09:16 PM
I've decided not to rush it - got to savour every moment. Two chapters down, a gazillion to go :D

Gotta say, though, that the prologue was awesomesauce!

Ser Scot A Ellison
July 13th, 2011, 05:26 AM
I'm just past the chapters that were spoiled by GRRM at readings and on his website (there are a few differences). It's great.

:)

The Mighty 6 platoon
July 13th, 2011, 05:37 AM
Less posting, more reading. :P

Ser Scot A Ellison
July 13th, 2011, 07:08 AM
TM6P,

I'm at work.

:(

The Mighty 6 platoon
July 13th, 2011, 08:48 AM
TM6P,

I'm at work.

:(

Screw work, A Dance with Dragons is more important. Yes you'll end up unemployed, but you will have achieved something more crucial, reading it faster. :D

In all seriousness though, I'm savouring it, and going fairly slowly. I have a tendency to demolish books, I'm a quick reader, and even GRRM's thousand pages tomes don't last me long. But seeing as how GRRM takes his time writing, and it could be years before we get the next instalment, I'm just going slowly, enjoying that we have this book at the moment.

Lahela
July 13th, 2011, 10:21 AM
Jon, how I love thee :D :D :D

VampyreWraith
July 13th, 2011, 12:03 PM
I love Jon. :D I love reading things from his pov.

Massive spoilers for things that happen towards the end of ADwD.

I skipped ahead and read Jon's last chapter, and even just based on that chapter alone(without factoring in dreams, prophecies, and the fact that him dying at this point in the story would be kind of um.. pointless) I really don't think he's dead. I can see GhostJon(as in the direwolf), ZombieJon, or reborn to fullfill prophecy Jon (I think any version of Jon could be doing some kind of prophecy fullfilling stuff though) I don't care which Jon is in the next book, I just want him to have pov chapters, because I really love Jon's pov, and would miss them. I would still keep reading though even if he is confirmed dead at the beginning of the next book, but I really don't see that being the case( I know I have a bad case of wishfull thinking lol ) :D

MattSilver 3k
July 13th, 2011, 04:05 PM
Book finished. Unlike VampireWrath, I actually, you know, read the whole lot in order. Like a normal person.

Jesus mother****ing son of a *****. Jon. :( :(

VampyreWraith
July 13th, 2011, 05:06 PM
I usually don't read things in order, even though I really try, I'm too impatient.:P I like going through my fav pov's first(or the ones I'm most interested in). Anyway, I'd already accidently read a certain spoiler beforehand, and wanted to see how true it was, so reading in order was really too hard for me to do. But I went back to where I left off reading in order, and I've almost finished going through everything else that I didn't read already.

I loved the Jon chapters, and his last chapter was sad but here was a lot of warning for it. I don't think he's dead; mainly because there would be no reason not to confirm it with another pov at the wall if he really was dead(with no chance of coming back in some way). It wouldn't have taken that many pages to do, so it feels like theres has to be more to it.
I did read an interview with the editor where she said that 2 scenes(chapters?) had to be taken out because the book was already too long as it was. I'm not saying that these had to do with Jon, but one of them might have, so I don't know.
I see leaving it ambiguous as being better than confirm his death at the end of this book, only to ressurect him or whatever at the beginning of the next; especially since different ways for him to come back were shown/hinted at during this book(and earlier ones). Leaving his death uncertain only to confirm him being truly dead(and never coming back), at the start of the next book wouldn't really make too much sense to me, and would seem too shock valuey. Anyway, I hope he's not dead, but even if he is, there are still a lot of other characters that I'm interested in and I wanna know how it ends. :)

I really liked Bran's, and Theon's chapters, and they weren't even ones that I was looking forward to reading that much. :)

MattSilver 3k
July 13th, 2011, 08:18 PM
I usually don't read things in order, even though I really try, I'm too impatient.:P I like going through my fav pov's first(or the ones I'm most interested in). Anyway, I'd already accidently read a certain spoiler beforehand, and wanted to see how true it was, so reading in order was really too hard for me to do. But I went back to where I left off reading in order, and I've almost finished going through everything else that I didn't read already.

I loved the Jon chapters, and his last chapter was sad but here was a lot of warning for it. I don't think he's dead; mainly because there would be no reason not to confirm it with another pov at the wall if he really was dead(with no chance of coming back in some way). It wouldn't have taken that many pages to do, so it feels like theres has to be more to it.
I did read an interview with the editor where she said that 2 scenes(chapters?) had to be taken out because the book was already too long as it was. I'm not saying that these had to do with Jon, but one of them might have, so I don't know.
I see leaving it ambiguous as being better than confirm his death at the end of this book, only to ressurect him or whatever at the beginning of the next; especially since different ways for him to come back were shown/hinted at during this book(and earlier ones). Leaving his death uncertain only to confirm him being truly dead(and never coming back), at the start of the next book wouldn't really make too much sense to me, and would seem too shock valuey. Anyway, I hope he's not dead, but even if he is, there are still a lot of other characters that I'm interested in and I wanna know how it ends. :)

I really liked Bran's, and Theon's chapters, and they weren't even ones that I was looking forward to reading that much. :)

I think the chapters left out of Dance were a Sansa one and an Aeron one, if I recall something George said.

Trouble is, I can see Jon's death sticking. It's a tragic end, yes, and there are still mysteries unsolved about him (His parentage), but I can see the story without Jon, as sucky as it sounds. If, for example, Rhaegar is actually his father, the story would be less about his parentage and more about how Rhaegar impregnating Lyanna started this whole mess. He's a major player, and somebody I'd hate to actually see die, but if he's dead, it's possible he won't be revived or will survive multiple stab wounds... Sucky, but yeah.

I loved Bran's and Theon's chapters. And Quentyn's. And... well, everyone's.

VampyreWraith
July 13th, 2011, 09:09 PM
I think the chapters left out of Dance were a Sansa one and an Aeron one, if I recall something George said.

Trouble is, I can see Jon's death sticking. It's a tragic end, yes, and there are still mysteries unsolved about him (His parentage), but I can see the story without Jon, as sucky as it sounds. If, for example, Rhaegar is actually his father, the story would be less about his parentage and more about how Rhaegar impregnating Lyanna started this whole mess. He's a major player, and somebody I'd hate to actually see die, but if he's dead, it's possible he won't be revived or will survive multiple stab wounds... Sucky, but yeah.

I loved Bran's and Theon's chapters. And Quentyn's. And... well, everyone's.

If Jon really is dead and in no way coming back(not even as GhostJon or ZombieJon) at the beginning of the next book, I'd be more disappointed that his death wasn't confirmed in ADwD and dragged out, than I disappointed because Jon is actually dead.

I thought Bran being able to see through the weirwoods was one of the coolest things, I wasn't expecting that for him. I liked the Dany chapters the least, but I think they were good for her character.

MattSilver 3k
July 13th, 2011, 11:37 PM
My current theory on Jon is...

He'll jump to Ghost as soon as his body dies, escape dying again as Ghost (Versus the Boar skinchanger that was alluded to near the end), and eventually get his body back, wight or Mellisandre's reanimation or whatever.

The thing that makes me think he'll go to Ghost is the prologue, with Sixskins jumping to his wolf after death, and a prophecy of Mell's early on, about Jon Snow going from man to wolf and back again.

Yeah, I no longer believe he's dead. Well... he's dead, but not done.

VampyreWraith
July 14th, 2011, 12:19 AM
^Yeah I think Jon going in to Ghost seems like definite, I can't see a real reason why he couldn't/wouldn't at least go into Ghost; and with the Jon related vision Mel was seeing in the fire while she was asking after Stannis and Azor Ahai, to just have Jon be dead at the start of the next book would feel wrong to me

Lahela
July 14th, 2011, 02:26 AM
*looks at all the spoiler tags*
I'll be back in this thread when I've finished the book :p

MattSilver 3k
July 14th, 2011, 03:29 AM
A very good idea. More thoughts, and ending spoilers.

Man, looking back, poor Quentyn. Dude's got a very solid, if short, storyline, and it ends horribly. I truly think he was destined to be Viserion's rider, but if Rhaegal hadn't roasted him... Yeesh, just as depressing as Jon's death (Mostly because Quen's is permanent).

Oh, and Kevan! He was my third-favourite Lannister. Killed for being sane and level-headed. What a way to go.

VampyreWraith
July 14th, 2011, 09:45 AM
ADwD ending realated stuff

I liked Ser Kevan, and felt bad that he dies(didn't care much about Pycelle), but I like the way it was done. It was creepy; Varys was creepy.(the way I pictured it anyway)

Quentyn's attempt at dragon taming was tragic, getting burned alive by a dragon can't be fun. I felt bad for him because he didn't really want to be there. I liked Quentyn, but I wasn't that upset by his death.

I didn't care much for Dany's taste in men. It seemed like she was miscarrying at the end, so I guess she isn't barren.

Ramsey Bolton needs to die soon(preferably a horrible death) He's just so nasty, and sadistic.

I wonder if Stannis is really dead or if he's just being held hostage(and tortured) by Ramsay. I never cared for Stannis, I don't dislike him, I just don't really care much what happens to him personally(but I care in relation to the story)

Cold Fuzz
July 17th, 2011, 06:58 PM
I'm still near the beginning of A Dance with Dragons as I'm constantly busy with work and real life but I just had a thought about the entire series in general.

The Azor Ahai prophecy states, like other religious prophecies in the real world, that Azor Ahai will return to the world to rise up and challenge the Others, wielding Lightbringer no less. In the thousands of pages I've read so far, I don't remember the prophecy stating that the Azor Ahai will actually succeed. If Azor Ahai fails this time, presumably the world will fall.

What if this is the story that GRRM set out to write from the beginning? Dany, with pages upon pages about her being of the dragon, is almost undoubtedly Azor Ahai. I wonder if she's supposed to fail and that this entire series is supposed to be an apocalypse story with no rebirth at the end?

I'm reminded of when Sansa and Cersei were waiting for the outcome of the Battle of the Blackwater. Sansa said that true knights wouldn't harm women and children. Cersei, amused by Sansa's fantasy, says to her, "No doubt you're right. So why don't you just eat your broth like a good girl and wait for Symeon Star-Eyes and Prince Aemon the Dragonknight to come rescue you, sweetling. I'm sure it won't be very long now."

GRRM has setup some expectations, at least for me, for Dany to come to Westeros, almost as a savior figure. I wonder if he deliberately setup that expectation to have it fall to pieces much like Sansa's expectation for her dream knight to come rescue her from her misery? It's a depressing thought but given the tone of the series, it wouldn't be surprising to me if this is what ultimately happens in the end.

MattSilver 3k
July 17th, 2011, 08:25 PM
Well, actually... In vague terms, I'll say that the AA thing gets a shot in the arm thanks to a new POV and the events with a certain character who's been around since book one. You have to go into the story a lot more before drawing conclusions, man. It's a fun ride, so no loss. :D

Huaracocha
July 23rd, 2011, 10:09 AM
I'm currently reading AFFC.. I'm curious how this one stacks up in the mind of most readers? Personally I'm finding it to be a bit lacking compared to earlier instalments.

Partly because of characters I'm missing who aren't involved. Partly because the story seems to meander very slowly, even more so than the first half of book 2. Mainly because I loathe the pointless ironborn.

There are plenty of characters I hate in this series - but in a "love to hate" kind of sense. In the way that I can take real delight and glee in horrible things happening to them which they richly deserve. The ironborn chapters just seem to me dull most of the time and the people laughable charicatures. The sooner they all drown and go back to their stupid God the better. I'll just be relieved to get on with the real story without them. If they manage to get their hands on Dany's dragons that might be the last straw for me :(

I can only imagine the irritation I'd be feeling if I'd been reading these books as they came out. I'm starting to understand some of the frustration directed at GRRM from long-time fans of the series over the delays in publishing the 2 most recent instalments.

Still there's plenty I am enjoying in AFFC and looking forward to (hopefully) getting back on track in book 5.

Shylodog
July 25th, 2011, 07:26 AM
Ok, so it was my fault for reading the spoilers halfway through ADwD. But I gotta say some of you guys' speculations threw me way off...

I don't think Stannis has been caught at all. All we've seen is The Bastard's nasty little note claiming that he is. What we DO know is that the freak's got Mance and his ladies and has probably been flaying them for info. Other than that, I don't believe for a second he's actually got Stannis (especially since he doesn't know where Theon and Jeyne are - and knows nothing about Asha).

Also, I don't think Jon is dead. He's been shanked enough times, but all we know is that he's lost consciousness.

I'm still very confused about Dany's bleeding. Maybe the witch cast a spell on Dany to prevent her from having a child, or maybe the berries Dany ate are the core ingredient for Moon Tea. Either way, it DOES seem like she miscarried, but I just can't tell for sure.

Still have to read the epilogue, but all-in-all it was a fun ride. :D

Cold Fuzz
July 25th, 2011, 11:55 PM
I haven't had much time for reading as some real-life adventures have left me reeling and exhausted. I just finished the chapter "The Lost Lord."

OK WTF?! :eek: All of a sudden I'm looking at Dany and what's happened to her in all the books a bit differently. I'm wondering now whether the Azor Ahai prophecy can refer to the Targaryen family in general. Three heads, one dragon.

Huaracocha
July 26th, 2011, 04:52 AM
I haven't had much time for reading as some real-life adventures have left me reeling and exhausted. I just finished the chapter "The Lost Lord."

OK WTF?! :eek: All of a sudden I'm looking at Dany and what's happened to her in all the books a bit differently. I'm wondering now whether the Azor Ahai prophecy can refer to the Targaryen family in general. Three heads, one dragon.

That's a coincidence - I just started that chapter!

Cold Fuzz
July 26th, 2011, 11:42 PM
OK, I haven't read any spoilers. I'm now on Tyrion's chapter after "The Wayward Bride." I have to quote Star Wars. "I have a bad feeling about this."
With each passing chapter, I've got this ugly feeling that Meereen is going to be an absolute cluster**** for Dany... and I don't say that lightly.
Drogon and the brood eating kids and animals at random, the Thirteen declaring war on her (especially with all those ships they're supposed to have), and then those damned Harpy's Sons... :S *sigh*
She and Jon have consistently been my favorites so far but I can't shake this feeling that things are really going to fall to pieces for these two. :(

g.o.d
July 30th, 2011, 10:33 AM
I've just started reading SoS, but I have questions about the second book. Is it explained how Jaquen got in a prison? And did Yoren really know who Jaquen really is?(that's why he was in chains)

Selina
August 6th, 2011, 02:50 PM
I've just started reading SoS, but I have questions about the second book. Is it explained how Jaquen got in a prison? And did Yoren really know who Jaquen really is?(that's why he was in chains)

If I remember correctly there is no explanation on how Jaquen got into prison, but since Yoren "found" him in the black cells his crime must have been severe, which is the reason why he was chained up.

g.o.d
August 6th, 2011, 10:25 PM
just finished the third book. I can't wait to see Red wedding and Cat from epilogue on the screen. There was an outrage after Ned's execution but this time the internet will explode :D

The Mighty 6 platoon
August 7th, 2011, 04:28 AM
just finished the third book. I can't wait to see Red wedding and Cat from epilogue on the screen. There was an outrage after Ned's execution but this time the internet will explode :D

GRRM has suggested that he may need to be out of the country when that airs, just to avoid the reactions. :P

LeftHandedGuitarist
August 7th, 2011, 01:37 PM
Finished ADWD. Really enjoyed it, a much better read than Feast, although it doesn't live up to the earlier novels. The pacing is a little mixed, with some sections barrellnig along with big revelations and nice twists, then there are huge portions where the story seems to stop dead.

GRRM has been famously talking about all the problems that the "Mereenese knot" has caused him, wherein a large number of characters are all arriving at Mereen at the same time and chronologically it was tough to sort out - I'm quite confused, because although there were many people travelling to Mereen thoughout, the only one who actually arrived was Quentyn. I felt quite a let down, just waiting for Tyrion, Jorah, Aegon and Victarion to all present themselves to her, and they never got anywhere. It felt like they were being delayed for no good reason when the story could have really moved forward.

Favourite POVs - Barristan was great! I also loved seeing Davos again, but why end his and Bran's chapters so early in the book? I think it was pointless to include Melissandre and Jaime since they only had one chapter each (seriously, the Jaime one could have easily been included in Feast) - give us more, George. It became frustrating to read so many Dany and Jon chapters where nothing seemed to be moving forward, when we could have been enjoying other characters.

VampyreWraith
August 7th, 2011, 06:56 PM
Ok, so it was my fault for reading the spoilers halfway through ADwD. But I gotta say some of you guys' speculations threw me way off...

I don't think Stannis has been caught at all. All we've seen is The Bastard's nasty little note claiming that he is. What we DO know is that the freak's got Mance and his ladies and has probably been flaying them for info. Other than that, I don't believe for a second he's actually got Stannis (especially since he doesn't know where Theon and Jeyne are - and knows nothing about Asha).

Also, I don't think Jon is dead. He's been shanked enough times, but all we know is that he's lost consciousness.

I'm still very confused about Dany's bleeding. Maybe the witch cast a spell on Dany to prevent her from having a child, or maybe the berries Dany ate are the core ingredient for Moon Tea. Either way, it DOES seem like she miscarried, but I just can't tell for sure.

Still have to read the epilogue, but all-in-all it was a fun ride. :D

Stannis probably isn't dead yet, but for some reason I can't see him being alive for much longer (that might just be because I really don't care that much about the character). Maybe Ramsay doesn't have him, but might have been badly injured or something. I can see Stannis being the pov prologue chapter of the next book. I hope Ramsay gets the epilogue chapter, and in it he learns what it feels like to be flayed by Theon.

I loved Theon's chapters in ADWD, especially the ones Winterfell. They were so well written and haunting, I got a little teary eyed at him remembering his time with Robb and the other Starks. I was never a Robb fan, but reading Theon's thoughts about him really made me feel sad that Robb was dead.

Jon's not dead, and if he is dead he isn't going to stay that way for long. Ghost being safely(for now) locked away in Jon's room, pretty much gives Jon a safe place to go to, if his body does die or is out of comission for awhile until it can be healed.

Dany's bleeding seemed like a miscarriage to me, because she was thinking that she couldn't remember the last time she had her period; but I guess it could bee some disease she picked up, or a just bad reaction to the berries.


Finished ADWD. Really enjoyed it, a much better read than Feast, although it doesn't live up to the earlier novels. The pacing is a little mixed, with some sections barrellnig along with big revelations and nice twists, then there are huge portions where the story seems to stop dead.

GRRM has been famously talking about all the problems that the "Mereenese knot" has caused him, wherein a large number of characters are all arriving at Mereen at the same time and chronologically it was tough to sort out - I'm quite confused, because although there were many people travelling to Mereen thoughout, the only one who actually arrived was Quentyn. I felt quite a let down, just waiting for Tyrion, Jorah, Aegon and Victarion to all present themselves to her, and they never got anywhere. It felt like they were being delayed for no good reason when the story could have really moved forward.

Favourite POVs - Barristan was great! I also loved seeing Davos again, but why end his and Bran's chapters so early in the book? I think it was pointless to include Melissandre and Jaime since they only had one chapter each (seriously, the Jaime one could have easily been included in Feast) - give us more, George. It became frustrating to read so many Dany and Jon chapters where nothing seemed to be moving forward, when we could have been enjoying other characters.

I guess all the characters that were on their way to meet Dany, need to meet her at certain points during her character development so that she'll react to them they way she needs to for some plot to work; and in order for her character to develop, she had to spend some time trying to rule in Meereen. Even though Dany learning how not to rule Meereen was a bit tedious to read through, it did develop her character; and she at least realized that, even though, she may be good at conquering, but she sucks as a ruler. She didn't have any experience in ruling anything; dragons and her army of Dorthaki and unsullied made her a good conqueror even if she lacked experience, but they weren't much help when it came to settling down and ruling(especially since she locked up the dragons). I was actually glad that she didn't end up being a good ruler, and that she did make mistakes(I personally thought it made sense for her character); that even though she is "blood of the dragon" or whatever, doesn't mean she'll instantly be good at everything she does, and that everyone else will automatically love her and want to be ruled by her. I do believe that she did want to help people, but there was no easy way to go about it, and she wasn't prepared for that. I hope the Dorthaki she meets up with at the end of ADWD, don't fall at her feet at the start of the next book, just so she can have a bloodthirsty horde at her back primed for the invasion of Westeros. Actually, that wouldn't be so bad though(imo), as long as she doesn't still see herself as some benevolent savior, out to right the "injustices" done to her family in the past, so she could take her rightful place as Queen of Westeros. I don't really like Dany, so some of my feelings/observations about her and her actions are biased against her even when I try to be objective.

Jon' s story kind of paralell Dany's in that they are both learning how to lead people, but his character is almost opposite hers in his attitude, and in the way he goes about dealing with things. I've always liked Jon's attitude, and the way he does things a whole lot better than Dany's, so I actually enjoyed his chapters a lot. I agreed with most of his decisions or at least the logic behind his decisions. He did make mistakes too though, and he suffered the consequences of them.

I think Melisandre's POV was needed in order to see her fire visions through her eyes,(because what she sees, and how others hear and interpret what she says are different); and also to a lesser extent(imo) see what kind of a character she is and what her motivations are, otherwise I'd agree that there was no reason to give her a POV chapter. Melisandre's doesn't always interpret her visions correctly, because her knowledge is limited to her perspective.

I also thought that Jaime's chapter either shouldn't have been included in this book, or that there should have been more to it. I would have also liked more Davos and Bran chapters. I loved Arya's chapters, and wished there were more of those too. I didn't enjoy Tyrion's chapters as much as I usually do, but I still like the character.

Selina
August 9th, 2011, 01:56 AM
I just finished ADWD and it felt even slower than Feast. It's not that the book is bad, but compared to the first three I found it wanting. Especially the Mereenese plot seemed to drag on and on and on without much of anything happening. Still a good book though and I hope we won't have to wait quite es long on the next one.

Among other things the epilogue got me thinking ...


Varys explains his motives stating that he is acting for the good of the realm. Given the circumstances we have every reason to believe that he is telling the truth. Afterall why should he lie to a dieing man with no other listeners present ?

What I wonder is. Why does he think that all the death and destruction that the war of the five kings has caused (and which he helped orchestrate) is good for the realm ? Sure, weakening the seven kingdoms is required if Aegon wants to ascend the throne, but why does he think that putting a Targaryen on the throne is worth it for the realm ?

VampyreWraith
August 9th, 2011, 11:29 AM
I just finished ADWD and it felt even slower than Feast. It's not that the book is bad, but compared to the first three I found it wanting. Especially the Mereenese plot seemed to drag on and on and on without much of anything happening. Still a good book though and I hope we won't have to wait quite es long on the next one.

Among other things the epilogue got me thinking ...


Varys explains his motives stating that he is acting for the good of the realm. Given the circumstances we have every reason to believe that he is telling the truth. Afterall why should he lie to a dieing man with no other listeners present ?

What I wonder is. Why does he think that all the death and destruction that the war of the five kings has caused (and which he helped orchestrate) is good for the realm ? Sure, weakening the seven kingdoms is required if Aegon wants to ascend the throne, but why does he think that putting a Targaryen on the throne is worth it for the realm ?


The first 3 books were the best(imo), ASoS is my favorite; but I like ADwD, and I liked it better than Feast, probably because I love all things in the books having to do with the North and the Wall. I hope the wait til the next book isn't a long one either.

Varys may have been telling the truth about Aegon really being Aegon and doing it all for the good of the realm. I do think that he believes what he is doing is for the best, but I'm not sure I believe the Aegon bit. I think he wants him to rule because Aegon has been taught what Varys thinks is necessary to be a good ruler, and being a Targaryen would give him a claim to the throne.

Kevan wan't the only one there, the children were there, anything he said might have been for their benefit, and not necessarily entirely truthful.

Cold Fuzz
August 17th, 2011, 11:29 PM
I just finished A Dance with Dragons earlier tonight. I have a headache now. :lol:

Goodness so much happened in this book. I liked it a whole lot better than A Feast for Crows, thats for sure. The pacing in Feast got tedious for me, to be honest. Without Tyrion, Dany, and Jon at the forefront, that book took me forever to finish. This one though, I enjoyed a lot.

Daenerys: This is the greatest setback she's faced since losing Drogo back in book 1. Meereen was a total cluster****, as I suspected it would be. But given how Varys is making out Aegon to be an apparently good ruler, Dany's role is clear. She's not a ruler. At least, not yet anyway. That's Aegon's turf. She's shown inherent skills at fighting, conquering, and the ways of war. This has been shown again and again throughout the books with the victories she's amassed against adversaries like the Qartheen warlocks, outwitting the Yunkish slavers at Astapor, and even at the very beginning of her story, standing up against Viserys and executing Mirri Maz Duur. If she musters what's left of the people loyal to her, including the Ghiscari loyal to her at Meereen, she'll give Aegon some heavy reinforcements when he take's Storm's End. I think the Unsullied and all of her troops would daunt even the fiercest knights in Westeros.

But to do all of this, she needs to somehow get back to Meereen from Drogon's lair. With Jhaqo's khalasar at the very end, it's going to be a difficult journey back. I wish there were a map of the Dothraki Sea and the surrounding lands so we could get an idea of where everything is. The map of Slavery's Bay is nice but I was hoping for something more comprehensive showing Essos.

I thought hallucinations/epiphanies Dany had at the very end were incredibly compelling. I can empathize with what happened to her actually since I nearly died in the Utah desert over 4 years ago due to dehydration and heatstroke. GRRM got that part down very well.

Jon: He ain't dead. I refuse to believe he's dead. :mckay: Having said that, I think the next thing up North is the Wall. It's coming down. No doubt about it in my mind now. With Jon and his plan to ally the Night's Watch with the Wildings against the Others out of the way, some fool is going to blow the Horn of Winter and everybody's pretty much going to be screwed. But I think that's going to be necessary. The Others approach from the Wall with the North in disarray while Aegon and Dany approach from the South. Inevitably ice and fire are going to meet up... and have an interesting party.

My favorite moment: This will seem vindictive to some but Cersei being utterly humiliated and broken in public was by far the most satisfying thing for me to read in the past 5 books. With so many people suffering due to her machinations, not the least of which would be Sansa and the Starks, I felt no pity for her whatsoever and honestly I'd probably be one of the people throwing food at her given what she's said and done.

Tragic moment: Quentyn. *shakes head and sighs* Dude, you are NOT the blood of the dragon. The only reason Dany ever got away with whipping Viserion or Rhaegal was because the dragon brood thought of Dany as their mother in an instinctual way. They'd never tolerate anybody but her doing that. But... *sigh*. Dany needs that dragon horn or she'll never keep the brood in line.

Wishlist: Theon (I refuse to call him Reek) and/or some of the Starks flaying Ramsay Bolton and the rest of his damned house.

Predictions: I picture Arya growing in strength and beginning to exhibit supernatural abilities superior to her siblings. Killing the insurance dude was slick, but I think she's destined to pull off much bigger hits in the future. As for the whole Azor Ahai prophecy, I think that it refers to not just Aegon, but applies Dany too and perhaps their entire family. Given how their sigil is a 3-headed dragon, I wouldn't be surprised if there's another Targaryen floating around out there somewhere.

Shylodog
August 19th, 2011, 07:04 AM
Predictions: I picture Arya growing in strength and beginning to exhibit supernatural abilities superior to her siblings. Killing the insurance dude was slick, but I think she's destined to pull off much bigger hits in the future. As for the whole Azor Ahai prophecy, I think that it refers to not just Aegon, but applies Dany too and perhaps their entire family. Given how their sigil is a 3-headed dragon, I wouldn't be surprised if there's another Targaryen floating around out there somewhere.



At a guess, I'm going to say Tyrion as another Targaryen. Tyrion or Jon, but I'm less inclined to believe it's Jon. Unless Jon's mother was actually a Targaryen and we haven't been told yet. Even King Robert hadn't a clue who Jon's mother was. But Tyrion has been explained to exhibit a certain Targaryen trait: he has one violet eye. It would also explain why his father loathed him so much. Tywin would have been far too proud to accuse his own wife of adultry, and who's to say he didn't actually kill her when the child was born?

Just my educated guesses at this point.

Cold Fuzz
August 19th, 2011, 05:27 PM
At a guess, I'm going to say Tyrion as another Targaryen. Tyrion or Jon, but I'm less inclined to believe it's Jon. Unless Jon's mother was actually a Targaryen and we haven't been told yet. Even King Robert hadn't a clue who Jon's mother was. But Tyrion has been explained to exhibit a certain Targaryen trait: he has one violet eye. It would also explain why his father loathed him so much. Tywin would have been far too proud to accuse his own wife of adultry, and who's to say he didn't actually kill her when the child was born?

Just my educated guesses at this point.

I would say that Tyrion has more chance of being a Targaryen (or at least partially if your theory is correct) than Jon. Jon is definitely not a dragon: He has no immunity to fire and I don't remember anything describing any Targaryen traits.

VampyreWraith
August 19th, 2011, 07:48 PM
Regarding Tyrion, Jon, and Arya, along with some stuff from ADwD and some speculation.

Aerys did have a thing for Tyrion's mother so it is possible that he might have gotten her pregnant(by rape or consent).

I still think that Jon might by Lyanna's child by Rhaegar. I've thought that pretty much since I read the part in the first book when Ned remamber(or dreams about?) finding his sister dying. There were three(?) Kingsguards outside the tower, and Lyanna made Ned promise her something. Ned claiming her child(by Rhaegar) as his bastard(by some random woman) would have kept him safe from Robert. Either way Jon is a Stark and of the north, and thats just as good(or better) than being a dragon.(imo) :D

As of now I don't quite believe that Young Griff is Aegon Targaryan. Just because he's got the right coloring, and Vary's says he's Aegon, doesn't sell me on him being the real Aegon yet.

I love Arya, and I love her training with the Faceless Men. For some reason I can see her meeting up with Dany while she(Dany) is on her way to Westeros. Either as an assassin on her way to give Dany the gift, or as herself trying to get back to her remaining family after leaving the Faceless Men. I guess I just want her to run into Dany(or someone with at dragon) so she can try to warg into a dragon. I wonder if she can do that, or maybe Jon can(if he's not dead, and I really don't believe he is)

Shylodog
August 20th, 2011, 07:29 PM
...I wonder if she can do that, or maybe Jon can(if he's not dead, and I really don't believe he is)


This is my thought. We know that Targaryan's can be burned (Viserys), but none can warg so far as we know. We know Jon can warg, so that could be important in controlling the dragons. But only if he's of the blood.

Cold Fuzz
August 20th, 2011, 07:53 PM
Regarding Tyrion, Jon, and Arya, along with some stuff from ADwD and some speculation.

Aerys did have a thing for Tyrion's mother so it is possible that he might have gotten her pregnant(by rape or consent).

I still think that Jon might by Lyanna's child by Rhaegar. I've thought that pretty much since I read the part in the first book when Ned remamber(or dreams about?) finding his sister dying. There were three(?) Kingsguards outside the tower, and Lyanna made Ned promise her something. Ned claiming her child(by Rhaegar) as his bastard(by some random woman) would have kept him safe from Robert. Either way Jon is a Stark and of the north, and thats just as good(or better) than being a dragon.(imo) :D

As of now I don't quite believe that Young Griff is Aegon Targaryan. Just because he's got the right coloring, and Vary's says he's Aegon, doesn't sell me on him being the real Aegon yet.

I love Arya, and I love her training with the Faceless Men. For some reason I can see her meeting up with Dany while she(Dany) is on her way to Westeros. Either as an assassin on her way to give Dany the gift, or as herself trying to get back to her remaining family after leaving the Faceless Men. I guess I just want her to run into Dany(or someone with at dragon) so she can try to warg into a dragon. I wonder if she can do that, or maybe Jon can(if he's not dead, and I really don't believe he is)


If Arya joins up with Dany, which is something I've wanted for a long time, I'm also hoping that Arya will pull off a few hits for Dany while in Essos. I think Arya's supernatural abilities will definitely get Dany's attention. Ser Barristan may be the Queen's Hand but Arya could be the Queen's... dagger. When Arya reaches her full potential with the Faceless Men, she could probably cripple the Sons of the Harpy and similar organizations with a few well-placed kills. Being the personal assassin of the Targaryens would definitely curry a lot of favor for the Starks. I'm picturing a Stark/Targaryen alliance (with Jon in the picture too) in the future.

As for whether or not Young Griff is the real deal, it certainly wouldn't be the first time GRRM has used misdirection on us. However, I don't think Varys would lie at Kevan Lannister's final moments. I think the three-headed dragon applies to the Azor Ahai prophecy. Who the 3rd Targaryen is, I'm definitely itching to find out.


This is my thought. We know that Targaryan's can be burned (Viserys), but none can warg so far as we know. We know Jon can warg, so that could be important in controlling the dragons. But only if he's of the blood.

The Targaryens specialized in pyromancy and dragon sorcery. I think the warg abilities with the Stark children (including Jon) will catch the Targaryens' attention sooner or later. The question is, is Aegon III (Young Griff) immune to fire? I suppose that is the final definitive test on whether or not he is truly blood of the dragon.

VampyreWraith
August 24th, 2011, 12:28 PM
This is my thought. We know that Targaryan's can be burned (Viserys), but none can warg so far as we know. We know Jon can warg, so that could be important in controlling the dragons. But only if he's of the blood.

Or he has some magical horn or something that can control dragons; I think Jon is a Targaryan though. I do wonder if Targaryans really are the only ones who can control dragons, or if its just easier for some of them since they can't get burned to a crisp during the training process.



If Arya joins up with Dany, which is something I've wanted for a long time, I'm also hoping that Arya will pull off a few hits for Dany while in Essos. I think Arya's supernatural abilities will definitely get Dany's attention. Ser Barristan may be the Queen's Hand but Arya could be the Queen's... dagger. When Arya reaches her full potential with the Faceless Men, she could probably cripple the Sons of the Harpy and similar organizations with a few well-placed kills. Being the personal assassin of the Targaryens would definitely curry a lot of favor for the Starks. I'm picturing a Stark/Targaryen alliance (with Jon in the picture too) in the future.

As for whether or not Young Griff is the real deal, it certainly wouldn't be the first time GRRM has used misdirection on us. However, I don't think Varys would lie at Kevan Lannister's final moments. I think the three-headed dragon applies to the Azor Ahai prophecy. Who the 3rd Targaryen is, I'm definitely itching to find out.

Personally, I wouldn't want Arya and Dany to become friends or work together towards a goal, until they are in Westeros(or at least on the way there). I can picture Arya having motives other than friendship, when she might try to "befriend" Dany at first, but then later(once in Westeros), they become friends and meet up with Jon. I can picture Tyrion coming over with Dany and Arya.

Varys probably wouldn't lie during Kevan's final moments, if he knew it was just the two of them(with no one else in hearing distance), but there are others around at the time; the childeren who later come in with daggers(when Varys whistled for them) to finish Kevan off. Even if they are all completely loyal to Varys(and not anyone else's little bird), he might want/need them to believe that the a long-thought dead Targaryan Prince, who has been trained to rule since childhood, and knows to put the needs of people ahead of his own, is on his way back to Westeros to claim his rightful place.

g.o.d
August 25th, 2011, 06:35 AM
a possible cover for re-edition of the third book in the Czech Republic

31605

magictrick
January 30th, 2012, 06:41 AM
Now that I've finished A Dance with Dragons, I was finally able to open up this thread again. Some interesting theories from everyone here. I just hope it doesn't take 5+ years until we see the next novel.

As for the book, I liked that it began the process of tying together a lot of different story lines. Everyone in the book started so far apart but as it progressed certain characters are coming closer and closer together.

I found it interesting that GRRM chose to use a lot more POV characters this time around. Although some where only there for one chapter and not more, it was a welcome change because it allowed us to see what events are taking place pretty much everywhere.

I thought the Prince of Dorne story line was a bit rushed. I think he could have expanded on him and his story a bit more. It seemed like we got 1 or 2 chapters from him and then he died. I also thought his idea to conquer the dragons was extremely foolish.

The outcome with Jon I saw coming a mile away. I can't believe he didn't notice how badly he was antagonizing everyone around him with what he was doing. His ideas were good but he should have first realized what was going on around him. I don't want to say he had it coming, because I like the character. I'm sure he is still alive though, too much rests on his character right now for him to be killed off. I realize no character is safe in these novels, but his character has been developed for so long, I find it hard to believe GRRM would kill him off in that fashion.

I was also hoping to see more of Brienne and Jaime. What happened to Brienne? Last time I believe she was about to be killed by Catelyn.

fumblesmcstupid
March 9th, 2012, 09:10 PM
I'm trying to read Clash of Kings. Trying. I think I might wait for the last book to come out.

oops I just asked my brother when the books will be out.

He laughed at me.

*sigh*

Morbo
March 10th, 2012, 04:26 PM
all the books are hard to read. so much detail. i mean, just about clothes alone. jesus.

i've read the first 2 books. took a break to read something that doesn't make me go crazy trying to remember everything and the thousands of characters.

Skydiver
March 11th, 2012, 06:22 AM
I just accept that you can't remember. ALso yeah, some characters just vanish and only time will tell if they come back. Or, like Brienne, if we ever find out if Cat killed her or if she's still out there.

I'm wondering with Jon if he turns into a wight or something, or somehow finds his uncle and they go about fixing and doing things without the burdens of mortality and responsibilities. The missing uncle has been too important for too long to just be ignored.

I think GRRM has woven such a complex tale that it's simply hard to settle it all and write it all without getting lost.

Morbo
March 11th, 2012, 12:32 PM
yeah i can only imagine the pegboard of character trees and timelines. must be as big as the side of a building.

magictrick
March 11th, 2012, 08:03 PM
I just accept that you can't remember. ALso yeah, some characters just vanish and only time will tell if they come back. Or, like Brienne, if we ever find out if Cat killed her or if she's still out there.


This is answered in ADWD

In Jaime's last POV she meets up with him and his crew and tells him she has something important to show him. Thus it looks like Cat spared her life.

Cold Fuzz
March 12th, 2012, 02:47 PM
I just accept that you can't remember. ALso yeah, some characters just vanish and only time will tell if they come back. Or, like Brienne, if we ever find out if Cat killed her or if she's still out there.

I'm wondering with Jon if he turns into a wight or something, or somehow finds his uncle and they go about fixing and doing things without the burdens of mortality and responsibilities. The missing uncle has been too important for too long to just be ignored.

I think GRRM has woven such a complex tale that it's simply hard to settle it all and write it all without getting lost.

I think Coldhands is Uncle Benjen. He was running around riding an elk and I don't remember him taking off his hood so I'm pretty sure that Bran and company never actually saw his face. But that gathering with the greenseer in that forest area with that whole thing about the Old Gods? Really bizarre material there. :S

With Jon, I'm wondering is he'll somehow warg and permanently inhabit Ghost or another animal. It's possible that he could be revived somehow. He did have that vision of himself wielding a flaming sword a la Azor Aha. I think that was in Storm of Swords but I'm not sure at the moment as it's all starting to blur together. I don't think he's out of the picture just yet.

Skydiver
March 13th, 2012, 03:39 AM
I don't think Jon is gone forever as well. ANd I agree, I do think Benjen is 'alive' just not in the normal way.
Its entirely possible that they need people to be intermediaries between the north and south of the wall, and both of them are destined to be ' halflings' for lack of a better term.

I do, if the series on HBO survives long enough to make it to the end of the books (and if George gets them written before they produce what does exist) see HBO to start rearranging things a bit. Why cast an actor for one single scene all season, like Brienne that is in one chapter....so some stories may be told differently.

I think I can also see Crows and Dragons (4 & 5) being squashed into one season because so much happens concurrently.....or it'll span over 2 seasons but be told chronologically rather than the way it is in the books.

Horseslayer
April 4th, 2012, 06:05 AM
I just finished dance with dragons. Jon's last chapter in the book pissed me off. I mean WTH! Sometimes I want grab hold of g Martin and shake and scream at him. He better make up for it in the 6th book or he will lose a fan.

g.o.d
April 4th, 2012, 06:47 AM
I just finished dance with dragons. Jon's last chapter in the book pissed me off. I mean WTH! Sometimes I want grab hold of g Martin and shake and scream at him. He better make up for it in the 6th book or he will lose a fan.

I don't think Jon's really dead. If he's really son of prince Rhaegar and Lyanna, I bet he's the new Azor Ahai (fire and ice in his veins).

Dragon has a three heads, it's Dany, Aegon and I believe the last one is Jon. So I don't think Martin is done with him. He'll bring him back somehow.

Skydiver
April 7th, 2012, 10:48 AM
I tend to agree with your idea of Jon's lineage....Ned claimed him as his bastard to protect him and hide his identity.

I think by the end the three of them will unite the 3 major kingdoms, the north, overseas and Westeros. Could even extrapolate the whole 'holy trinity' thing....father(in this case mother), Son(of the dragon), holy spirit (jon being 'reborn or undead'

ouldsayer
April 18th, 2012, 11:24 AM
I know after The King Robert died, Joffrey is the king. I know in the third book he dies, and then what happen? What are the next kings in the novel? Until the end of the fifth book.
Thanks.

Skydiver
April 18th, 2012, 04:23 PM
book and kings landing spoilers

tommen succeeds his brother. And is on the throne through where I've read, even as he's more a puppet of his advisers than a leader in his own right.

Cold Fuzz
April 23rd, 2012, 05:52 PM
After re-reading some key passages in A Clash of Kings, I'm still hoping that somehow, we're going to see Asshai and the Shadow Lands. While in Qarth, Quaithe did tell Dany that in order to go west, she must go east. In trying to head west, she got locked into the whole situation at Slaver's Bay and after the mess that was Meereen, perhaps she and Drogon end up going to the Shadow Lands somehow? GRRM has alluded that we'll see much of the Lands of Always Winter. Though the Shadow Lands are on the other side of the world, I think the goings-on in the two distant places are related.

magictrick
April 24th, 2012, 05:55 AM
I am hoping we see some of those lands as well. We hear them being discussed throughout the series so I assume even if at least briefly we get to see what they are all about.

Speaking of that, I was also going back through A Dance with Dragons and came across a couple of questions that are hotly debated over at the ASOIAF forums.

1. Where in the world is Howland Reed and what is he up to. I hope we get to finally meet the man that holds all the answers (i.e the true details regarding Jon's lineage)
2. Who is the hooded man in Winterfell? I was surprised to find how many theories there are regarding who this might be.

Cold Fuzz
April 29th, 2012, 04:09 PM
I am hoping we see some of those lands as well. We hear them being discussed throughout the series so I assume even if at least briefly we get to see what they are all about.

Speaking of that, I was also going back through A Dance with Dragons and came across a couple of questions that are hotly debated over at the ASOIAF forums.

1. Where in the world is Howland Reed and what is he up to. I hope we get to finally meet the man that holds all the answers (i.e the true details regarding Jon's lineage)
2. Who is the hooded man in Winterfell? I was surprised to find how many theories there are regarding who this might be.

Very good questions. I think Howland Reed will resurface. Though he hasn't been mentioned in ages, there's every reason to believe he could come up gain. After all, if Rickon--who's been all but forgotten--is running around in Skagos and Shaggydog is fighting unicorns, someone like Howland Reed could comeback to the foreground. I have no doubt that Davos will find Rickon at Skagos and further intrigues will result. As for the hooded man, I'm not sure myself.

I just had a strange thought about the Stark children and their warg bonds with their dire wolves. Arya has shown abilities to warg into cats over at Braavos. What if Jon or Arya could warg into one of the Dany's dragons? The entire storyline could change big time there...

VampyreWraith
April 29th, 2012, 04:17 PM
Very good questions. I think Howland Reed will resurface. Though he hasn't been mentioned in ages, there's every reason to believe he could come up gain. After all, if Rickon--who's been all but forgotten--is running around in Skagos and Shaggydog is fighting unicorns, someone like Howland Reed could comeback to the foreground. I have no doubt that Davos will find Rickon at Skagos and further intrigues will result. As for the hooded man, I'm not sure myself.

I just had a strange thought about the Stark children and their warg bonds with their dire wolves. Arya has shown abilities to warg into cats over at Braavos. What if Jon or Arya could warg into one of the Dany's dragons? The entire storyline could change big time there...

I'm sure he'll eventually resurface too.

And I've been wanting Arya or Jon to warg into one of the dragons ever since the warg thing was brought up in the books.

Cold Fuzz
April 29th, 2012, 04:50 PM
I'm sure he'll eventually resurface too.

And I've been wanting Arya or Jon to warg into one of the dragons ever since the warg thing was brought up in the books.

Varamyr Sixskins had his interesting menagerie of critters. Arya or Jon warging into one of the Targaryen dragons seems very likely to me because they are pretty uncontrollable. :P Jon warging into Drogon would make for some interesting interactions with Dany. I can also picture Arya getting mixed up in the intrigues with the Greyjoys and the Dragon Horn.

VampyreWraith
April 29th, 2012, 04:54 PM
Varamyr Sixskins had his interesting menagerie of critters. Arya or Jon warging into one of the Targaryen dragons seems very likely to me because they are pretty uncontrollable. :P Jon warging into Drogon would make for some interesting interactions with Dany. I can also picture Arya getting mixed up in the intrigues with the Greyjoys and the Dragon Horn.

I wonder if Jon and Dany will end up as friends or enemies when(if?) they meet up.

magictrick
April 29th, 2012, 06:08 PM
I wonder if Jon and Dany will end up as friends or enemies when(if?) they meet up.

I think this is a question most fans are wondering about. The theory that Jon or Arya could warg into the dragons is very interesting though.

Jon's future is uncertain at this point, which adds more intrigue into the mix as well. Of course most people are assuming he's not going to die.

VampyreWraith
April 29th, 2012, 06:37 PM
I think this is a question most fans are wondering about. The theory that Jon or Arya could warg into the dragons is very interesting though.

Jon's future is uncertain at this point, which adds more intrigue into the mix as well. Of course most people are assuming he's not going to die.

I really don't feel that his story is done yet, I can definitely see him dying later on, but not yet.
He might not be completely alive in the next book either, so that could affect whether they are on the same side or not, but also I'm not sure if Dany will have good intentions for Westeros(and it's people) by they time she gets there(she might end up going crazy or something too; she has been through a lot, and will probably go through even more, and she might run into people who might try to manipulate her.)

Skydiver
May 8th, 2012, 05:09 PM
wild speculation for the last book, and upcoming

so what if Jon happened to take himself 'out of body' as his body was killed, and like others have suggested, will eventually warg into one of the dragons. Kinda find another body as a replacement for the 'gone' one.

magictrick
May 9th, 2012, 05:45 AM
wild speculation for the last book, and upcoming

so what if Jon happened to take himself 'out of body' as his body was killed, and like others have suggested, will eventually warg into one of the dragons. Kinda find another body as a replacement for the 'gone' one.

I actually don't think that's wild at all, sounds entirely possible at this point.

Whatever the outcome is I just hope it fits with the journey Jon has had so far. There's been a lot of effort put into his story just to have it wiped out away like that.

laolita
June 19th, 2012, 12:38 AM
i like Varys because you never know which side he is on and plays "he is there for the realm' card quite well. You think you know him but there is more to him than meets the eye.

SeaBee
March 1st, 2013, 06:51 PM
I was given the first 3 books as a birthday gift and really got into the story. I found it a bit wordy in places but the story moved along nicely. So I carried on getting the series.

I have now read all the books published so far and, much as I hate to say it, I was starting to struggle with the saga. The last book, "After The Feast", nearly pushed me over the edge. I found myself thinking "So, is anything actually going to happen? Is the story actually going to move on?" and it really didn't feel like it did.

I know that GRRM is building up a complex and layered story and needs to get all the characters in the right places for the climax but sometimes it felt like he was getting bogged down in description more and more with each successive volume.

After reading some of the information being put out about the next book, "The Winds of Winter", it does look like things are going to pick up, but boy, it's been hard work getting there, sometimes.

poundpuppy29
June 12th, 2013, 06:31 PM
Just found this thread love it just wanted to post a link to Cat's page very curious to see how the TV series portrays what I read. I am still on the fence about whether I will read the books or not

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Catelyn_Stark

hope this is the right thread for it

magictrick
June 13th, 2013, 08:29 AM
Just found this thread love it just wanted to post a link to Cat's page very curious to see how the TV series portrays what I read. I am still on the fence about whether I will read the books or not

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Catelyn_Stark

hope this is the right thread for it

There is a lot of debate about it over on the ASOIAF forums. A lot of people seem to think they should have included her transformation in the last episode of the season to add some interest to an otherwise dull finale.

I think we will see her at some point next season though, since the timeline says she is found a few days after the Red Wedding and resurrected into Lady Stoneheart.

Raw_Deal
June 22nd, 2013, 01:07 PM
Well, it took an entire year, but I finally finished all five books of A Song of Ice and Fire.

I have to say that A Dance with Dragons wasn't easy to get through, and it was the book that it took me the longest time to read. For the most part it just gave me a strong feeling of "Come on, let's get on with it..."

magictrick
June 26th, 2013, 06:05 AM
Well, it took an entire year, but I finally finished all five books of A Song of Ice and Fire.

I have to say that A Dance with Dragons wasn't easy to get through, and it was the book that it took me the longest time to read. For the most part it just gave me a strong feeling of "Come on, let's get on with it..."

I think this feeling is shared among most of the fans of the series. Hopefully the final two books bring everything together in an interesting way.

Galileo
August 31st, 2013, 07:41 PM
for those of you who find reading the actual books a chore, I recommend the audio versions. They are done extremely well, and I think I found the later books a lot easier to get through purely because I wasn't having to do the actual reading. Admitedly I read everything via audio, so I can't compare it, but other people I know preferred these books in particular through audio.