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GateWorld
September 18th, 2009, 02:27 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/sanctuary/s3/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/pax-romana-160x120.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">SANCTUARY SEASON THREE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/sanctuary/s3/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">PAX ROMANA</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 311</FONT>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0;">After successfully gaining access to the city of Praxis in Hollow Earth, Magnus and the team are met with a hostile welcome by the city's leader Ranna who has a secret agenda. <i>(SPACE)</i></DIV>
<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/sanctuary/s3/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Skydiver
April 15th, 2011, 07:58 PM
so

helen is revived, they find out that the missing super abby (the black guy) has been MIA, one reason for all the earthquakes. Helen offers her help...but save my team first.

they find gregory, heal Kanaan (hey, stargate name, both sg1 and sgu), save the ciy

in the mean time, adam whumps on Druitt, who eventually gets free and ends up attacking adam in a transport pod....after adam steals an antimatter power source.

is adam dead? (if you know otherwise, well that's best left to the spoiler thread i think)

the team is to be escorted to the surface, gregory stays behind as ambassador (seems both helen and sam have ambassadors as daddies), and we know that the general plot arc will be revisited

next week

magnus seems to return to the morning after the night before.....but in the sanctuary it's never that easy

Kilgharrah
April 15th, 2011, 08:39 PM
Liked this one. Worth the wait.
I noticed the similarities with stargate, but I guess I'm OK with it.
The problem with this episode is that it's not easy to understand. I need a re-watch.
Anyway, to discuss the episode.
How can a system of a city that advanced be hacked like that. Henry is a genius, but still. I might have believed it if Tesla did it instead coz he's old and posesses the wits of the ancient vampires who lived at the time of the creation of that city.
I feel like Kate was forced in this episode. No use for her. I don't like that.
2 questions,
1-How did Rona help with the counter wave? Is she an abnormal? I didn't get that part.
2- I don't remember the name of the traitor, but she said she had some one that looks like her on the surface, a corresponding one. Does that mean that everyone in that city has a corresponding one on the surface?

If anyone understood these part, then help please.
Thanks. :)

Aurora7783
April 15th, 2011, 08:44 PM
PrometheOSS,Ranna could communicate with Kanaan just like Fallon, the traitor, said she could do with Kali

EvenstarSRV
April 15th, 2011, 09:25 PM
Yay, I'm glad I no longer have to sit on my hands regarding this ep since iTunes released it early.

Overall, I like Pax Romana in the way I liked Hollow Men, neither wowed me, the plot at times felt a bit by the numbers, but there were enough bits of character moments that still made it enjoyable to watch. The highlights for me was stuff between Helen and Ranna (esp the parts about Kanan and the 'bloody hell' bit), Henry geeking out over the tech, and the return of Gregory. I'm looking forward to see how they'll revisit the city storyline later on.

The stuff that didn't work so well for me was Adam's part of the episode, I guess I wish he wasn't on his own being up to no good for so much of the ep, and the part with Will trying to reason with him was rather weak. We never got a good answer to what he was really up to, and since Druitt appears to have killed him I'm not sure if we ever will. I also wish Helen's cure hadn't been quite so simple, though for society that can regularly bring people back from the dead I suppose radiation poisoning isn't much of challenge.

The preview for the next ep looks like fun, it'll be nice to take a break from the Hollow Earth storyline for a while.

Rocky89
April 15th, 2011, 09:37 PM
All I can say is.... wow, with a side order of brilliant and awesome for take out. :p

This episode had everything, great story, interesting characters and it was very smart and clever. :) I think this was a solid episode all around, it was well worth the wait, I loved Helen and Ranna's scenes together, they had some good chemistry, and I loved their "Bloody hell" line together. :D As well as the wink Helen gave back to her dad. :p

I loved seeing Henry geek out over the tech in the rooms, and how Helen asked Kate to "keep a lid on him" :p One thing I really liked was how Will and the others kept worrying about Helen getting cured, and wouldn't work with Ranna until she got help, like that, it shows a good team. :) And Ranna had the cure for Helen in her hand. :p I love the scenes with Helen and her dad they were sweet, and it was nice to see Helen so happy. :) I knew that weird eye looking girl was bad, and I was hoping for her to get caught. ;)

Since Breach, I've wanted to see Adam die, and I'm sure he did, but it would have been nice to see it. :p When I saw John covered in blood, I was like ":eek: Man, he is maaaaad!" :p Overall it was a great episode, and it was well worth the wait. ;) As always, I'll review more in my replies. :)

Chelle DB
April 15th, 2011, 09:47 PM
It was good...very good...very very good. I still love Kate...she has some really cool one liners....as does Henry. :D I like that Polly Walker's character is good...didn't like her at first but appreciate her now. Gregory....yay! Nuff said.
Must watch rest of it before I can say more. But yay...they're back!!!!! :D

Kilgharrah
April 15th, 2011, 10:08 PM
When I saw John covered in blood, I was like ":eek: Man, he is maaaaad!" :p
You figured that out now????
Hasn't the killing spree he was on the last century helped u figure it out a bit earlier?
I wouldn't be surprised to know that Adam is dead coz he was left with the notorious Jack the Ripper.

KayLyne
April 15th, 2011, 10:17 PM
I absolutely loved the Helen/Ranna scenes. It's great to see Helen in charge even when she's not. I loved Kate's one-liners, but it seems that she was underused in this episode. She was just along for the ride, basically.

Adam's character was fun to watch in Breach, and even later when he was at the Sanctuary and bantering with the others, but here on his own he's a bit boring. Even with the ending of this one, we know that no one ever really dies in a sci-fi show. and of course, there are always flashback possibilities.

Watching Henry geek over the cool techno stuff was cute. I love watching geeks in their main element. ;)

As usual with the character of Will, I can take it or leave it, but I did like how he was insistent that they treat Helen for her radiation poisoning.

Poor John. I hope we get to see him sometime soon. I miss him when he's gone for many episodes at a time. I also missed Tesla in this one as well.

dosed150
April 15th, 2011, 10:49 PM
Liked this one. Worth the wait.
I noticed the similarities with stargate, but I guess I'm OK with it.
The problem with this episode is that it's not easy to understand. I need a re-watch.
Anyway, to discuss the episode.
How can a system of a city that advanced be hacked like that. Henry is a genius, but still. I might have believed it if Tesla did it instead coz he's old and posesses the wits of the ancient vampires who lived at the time of the creation of that city.
I feel like Kate was forced in this episode. No use for her. I don't like that.
2 questions,
1-How did Rona help with the counter wave? Is she an abnormal? I didn't get that part.
2- I don't remember the name of the traitor, but she said she had some one that looks like her on the surface, a corresponding one. Does that mean that everyone in that city has a corresponding one on the surface?

If anyone understood these part, then help please.
Thanks. :)

she was talking about her race, they have one name under the surface, but helen was familiar with a surface dwelling offshoot of that race
would have been interesting to see more of the make up of the city, we saw various abnormals walking around, but all the authority figures and soldiers we saw were human or near human so the relationship between the different species would be interesting to see

jelgate
April 15th, 2011, 10:53 PM
Am I the only one who thinks Adam isn't really dead?

jasminaGo
April 16th, 2011, 12:37 AM
It's nice to see Helen kicking a$$ all over the place again. :) The scenes between her and Ranna were definitely my favorite.

I do wonder what John meant at the end, "All debts paid in full". Can't wait to find out!

Adam should have probably stayed with Helen after she shot him, it would have been less painful.

All in all a pretty good episode, and a good set up for continuation of the story arc in the future.

badwolfSG
April 16th, 2011, 01:05 AM
Kinda love the look on Adam face when he saw John, priceless.

AresLover452
April 16th, 2011, 01:15 AM
Kinda love the look on Adam face when he saw John, priceless.

Boy was in trouble!! john was going to so throw him a beatin!! lol! Loved it!! Course I was distracted by the ripper being all evil and blood lusty and what not!!! lol!

Julian
April 16th, 2011, 05:38 AM
Overall I liked the episode, I loved the visualisations! The CGI was great, really well done. I did feel it was a bit "by the numbers" too at points, I wish it weren't so predictable, that's what bugs me. It would've been nice if there were a bit more drama...

But yeah, for such an advanced city, I'm surprised they weren't more capable of detecting Fallon, Adam, preventing ways to stop the lava from nearly destroying the city, etc. And what is their population? 1 million? They sure do have a lot of really tall buildings :S

Edit: BTW, I was pretty disappointed with Polly Walker's role and acting :( I L-O-V-E her, after Rome, and then discovering her in Caprica (I had no idea she was in it before I watched it, shock of my life!). But I felt like either her acting, or her character, didn't do her justice this time round.
And I loved the irony of her, a real Brittish woman with a real Brittish accent, sharing the stage with "Helen" ;)


How can a system of a city that advanced be hacked like that. Henry is a genius, but still. I might have believed it if Tesla did it instead coz he's old and posesses the wits of the ancient vampires who lived at the time of the creation of that city.
I feel like Kate was forced in this episode. No use for her. I don't like that.
2 questions,
1-How did Rona help with the counter wave? Is she an abnormal? I didn't get that part.
2- I don't remember the name of the traitor, but she said she had some one that looks like her on the surface, a corresponding one. Does that mean that everyone in that city has a corresponding one on the surface?

If anyone understood these part, then help please.
Thanks. :)

Ranna isn't an abnormal. She was referred to in one of those humans Adam thought should be kicked out to the surface when he was talking to Fallon.

She helped with the counter wave because she communicates with Kanaan...

Fallon was the traitor. What she meant was that she was related (like cousins) to a different species on the surface. It's just like how types of animals and plants have related species on different continents.

kes
April 16th, 2011, 05:40 AM
Haven't re-watched the ep, this is what I remember from watching:

Starts off well, we get a bit of Druitt and then nothing till the end (SUCKS!). No Tesla and I would have been ok with that if I believed the next ep followed up with what happen in Pax but pretty sure it doesnt. And Tesla will be AWOL (sp) till ep 16 .

I wonder who is still alive. Way to leave the door open for the character to return. Hope they have a good explanation to why Druitt didnt skin him alive.

But...
The ep itself isn't bad, it just isn't WOW and that's what I expected from the 1st ep after a 4 month break.

Why was Kate there again? Oh right for some reason she went down there with them and keeping her dead when they reanimated everyone else would've looked bad.


EDIT : Forgot to mention lol that Helen and Ranna scenes were the best thing in the ep.

Skydiver
April 16th, 2011, 06:15 AM
I have this continuing frustration with how shows treat psychopaths....they will never reform, so why do you waste time trying to reason with them? how come you don't just bloody well kill them and put us all out of your misery???

It just annoys me when shows have people like Adam, who is allowed to terrorize and meddle for months/years on a show, just because no one seems to have the cajones to kill them. I find it tiring. Every time I saw Adam I was like 'ok, so the city can't just incapacitate him? the guards won't kill him? y'all can't start a rock fall to trap him in an airless chamber to die?

it's very frustrating to watch

kes
April 16th, 2011, 06:45 AM
I have this continuing frustration with how shows treat psychopaths....they will never reform, so why do you waste time trying to reason with them? how come you don't just bloody well kill them and put us all out of your misery???

It just annoys me when shows have people like Adam, who is allowed to terrorize and meddle for months/years on a show, just because no one seems to have the cajones to kill them. I find it tiring. Every time I saw Adam I was like 'ok, so the city can't just incapacitate him? the guards won't kill him? y'all can't start a rock fall to trap him in an airless chamber to die?

it's very frustrating to watch
Very true.

Rocky89
April 16th, 2011, 07:08 AM
Liked this one. Worth the wait.
I noticed the similarities with stargate, but I guess I'm OK with it.
The problem with this episode is that it's not easy to understand. I need a re-watch.
Anyway, to discuss the episode.

It was indeed well worth the wait. ;) I got 3 Stargate references.

1. When Helen said "Jaffa"
2. When they said "nanites"
3. When... Helen or Ranna said "continuum"



It was good...very good...very very good. I still love Kate...she has some really cool one liners....as does Henry. :D I like that Polly Walker's character is good...didn't like her at first but appreciate her now. Gregory....yay! Nuff said.
Must watch rest of it before I can say more. But yay...they're back!!!!! :D


It's nice to see Helen kicking a$$ all over the place again. :) The scenes between her and Ranna were definitely my favorite.

I do wonder what John meant at the end, "All debts paid in full". Can't wait to find out!

Adam should have probably stayed with Helen after she shot him, it would have been less painful.

All in all a pretty good episode, and a good set up for continuation of the story arc in the future.

I loved Helen and Ranna working together, it started off a it rocky (mind the pun :p) but they were able to gain a mutual trust, and I loved their "bloody hell" line. :D I also think this episode and the whole Hollow Earth storyline has set the tone for more stories like this in the future. :)


Boy was in trouble!! john was going to so throw him a beatin!! lol! Loved it!! Course I was distracted by the ripper being all evil and blood lusty and what not!!! lol!

OMG! I was squeeing a bit when I saw John, and I knew Adam was done for. :p The look on Adams face was priceless, but I would have still like to see him die. :p

Kyarra
April 16th, 2011, 07:51 AM
Am I the only one who thinks Adam isn't really dead?

nope... he's the kind of character that hides in the shadows for a little while then comes back to cause trouble again... Even though Druitt did catch up with him, Adam does have a track record of people thinking he's dead and actually not being so... :)

Kilgharrah
April 16th, 2011, 07:57 AM
It was indeed well worth the wait. ;) I got 3 Stargate references.

1. When Helen said "Jaffa"
2. When they said "nanites"
3. When... Helen or Ranna said "continuum"
Are u sure she said "Jaffa"???
I guess I missed that. When was it?
I don't really consider "nanites" or "continuum" stargate references coz they exist outside the Gate-verse. I know "Jaffa" does too, but it has a different meaning. Just my opinion.

Rocky89
April 16th, 2011, 08:54 AM
Are u sure she said "Jaffa"???
I guess I missed that. When was it?
I don't really consider "nanites" or "continuum" stargate references coz they exist outside the Gate-verse. I know "Jaffa" does too, but it has a different meaning. Just my opinion.

When Helen ws talking to Ranna, she says "Gephallis bertallosso You can hear "Jaffa" in there, or at least I can. :)

Kilgharrah
April 16th, 2011, 08:58 AM
When Helen ws talking to Ranna, she says "Gephallis bertallosso You can hear "Jaffa" in there, or at least I can. :)
U have got to be kidding me!!!!
And I thought it was really said.

sanctuary girl
April 16th, 2011, 09:09 AM
Yay, I'm glad I no longer have to sit on my hands regarding this ep since iTunes released it early.


Same here, I avoided all the speculation threads because I had to keep quiet.

I am so glad Sanctuary is back!!!;)

There were so many great one-liners: Wills skills in naming things :S, I love Henry when he freaks out about some toy, "keep a lid on him" so sweet !!!

Adam was a little bit anoying. And I am really sure he will be back. His face when he sees Druitt was simply great. Why are they always trying to reason with him? Stunn him, put him in the SHU, tie him up really thight and ask questions later

One question from my part: Kate's hair ?:S?

JanSam
April 16th, 2011, 09:48 AM
Am I the only one who thinks Adam isn't really dead?
No, your not alone. And I think the scene between the team hints to that....
Helen-"It's not like John to take his victims with him."
Will-"Unless there wasn't much left of him to return."
Helen-"And yet the search team found no trace of his remains."

Worth said "you and your tribal alliance in the Senate"..so Fallon wasn't working alone."

Combining what was said in this episode and some spoilers we know (which I'll leave for the spoiler thread)...yeah I don't think he is dead or stays dead.



The stuff that didn't work so well for me was Adam's part of the episode, I guess I wish he wasn't on his own being up to no good for so much of the ep, and the part with Will trying to reason with him was rather weak. We never got a good answer to what he was really up to, and since Druitt appears to have killed him I'm not sure if we ever will.

I think it would have worked better if they showed both Adam and Hyde like they did in Breach. The conflict between the two personalities is what made the character interesting and allowed for some sympathy for Adam and his illness. I do think we got some clues to what Hyde was doing....they just weren't handed to us and left for us to figure out. What it is; I think is probably best for the spoiler thread or PMs....


I have this continuing frustration with how shows treat psychopaths....they will never reform, so why do you waste time trying to reason with them? how come you don't just bloody well kill them and put us all out of your misery???

It just annoys me when shows have people like Adam, who is allowed to terrorize and meddle for months/years on a show, just because no one seems to have the cajones to kill them. I find it tiring. Every time I saw Adam I was like 'ok, so the city can't just incapacitate him? the guards won't kill him? y'all can't start a rock fall to trap him in an airless chamber to die?

it's very frustrating to watch

Frustrating or just redundant? Seen that action adventure can we go more in depth to it please? As I said to Evenstar, I think they needed to show Adam's side to bring out the complexities to the illness. I agree that just having Hyde run rabid is just......well boring.

I think the securities team plan was to just kill him; but Will convinced them into allowing him to talk to Hyde in hopes to find out what Hyde was up to. (and to give us a clue to what he was planning to do with the device).

Loved the opening Helen/Ranna scene, team's reaction to being "reanimated", and Henry's geeking out :D.

Feast of the Muse
April 16th, 2011, 12:04 PM
I thought it was odd that when Ranna and Helen were on top of Kanaan after Helen had helped Ranna back up, that Helen was the one saying it wasn't Kanaan's intention to throw them off, that he was trying to help by stretching out for them. Right, who is the one with a 'neural interface' (that's what the slit-eyed girl said, right?) to Kanaan? I think sometimes they try too hard to make Helen the one with all the answers. It's ok, PTB, we know she's the hero. :P

ETA: I also wanted to say that I've never been so happy to see John than when he showed up unshackled and ready to pounce on Adam. I really enjoyed that bit. I found it interesting that he wrote "all debts paid in full". It's obvious that he's always been in love with Helen... does this clear a path for them to try to trust and love each other again more intimately? I'm thinking that from his perspective, it does.

jasminaGo
April 16th, 2011, 01:12 PM
I thought it was odd that when Ranna and Helen were on top of Kanaan after Helen had helped Ranna back up, that Helen was the one saying it wasn't Kanaan's intention to throw them off, that he was trying to help by stretching out for them. Right, who is the one with a 'neural interface' (that's what the slit-eyed girl said, right?) to Kanaan? I think sometimes they try too hard to make Helen the one with all the answers. It's ok, PTB, we know she's the hero. :P

Well since Kanaan hasn't been responding to Ranna's calls for some time, the 'neural interface' obviously wasn't working, probably another side effect of the parasite inside him (plus I doubt they're connected all to time and know each other's thoughts). I thought a bigger stretch was Helen making the diagnosis, first in the city and then with the parasite.

Feast of the Muse
April 16th, 2011, 01:18 PM
Oh I missed that bit. Ok, I remember her saying he'd not been answering their calls. Watched it twice and still didn't put that together. Hmm, must need to watch it again... oh darn.

Yes, that second diagnosis was a little too convenient. As was Gregory being the only one of his men left alive. Oh well, we'll see if anything comes of it being too easy.

majorsal
April 16th, 2011, 03:27 PM
i rewatched this today on hulu, so i can give a better review. (yes, i only rewatched it for the review ;) :p)


in random order -


*ranna was alright, but for someone running the city, it sure seemed like helen was the one figuring stuff out . :p

*how do we know john who really wrote the 'all depts have been paid'? it could have been adam...

*i wish more time or detail could have been done for helen's cure.

*when helen first was revived, the sound was odd. you could tell cateye girl was talking to helen before helen could hear it properly. but there was something in the background, some sound or a person talking from helen's perspective... i wonder what/who it was, and what was being said?

*fantastic visuals of the city. they've come a long way in making it seamless. :)

*it really wasn't nice to execute them. :p you'd think for such an advanced society, they'd be more civil with each other. but ranna (and lavaslug creature) both felt that kindness was better than chaos. that's not the right words, so if anyone remembers, type up. :p

*i understand why wil wanted to talk to adam first, but wil is an idiot when it comes to this guy, so give it up, dude. :p

*neat visuals or not, operating on lavaslug seemed a bit cheesy. :p

*i wish helen didn't have a dad, but instead a mom. this feels too close to sam/jacob to me.

*speaking of dad: he died, freezing to death, then was revived by the cabal. so when did all that happen if he was spending time in hollow earth?

*the guy that didn't like henry playing with the tech; he's cute. :p

my one huge niggling prob... ~below~

*the sound is just awful for me (and my mom). but when i rewatched it on hulu today, the sound was just as bad! i did some adjustments to reduce the background blaring/muffling sound and make the dialog easier to hear. this is a constant problem with this program for me. my mom doesn't even want to try watching anymore, when she misses 50 to 75 percent of the dialog. :/


so anyhoo, not a WOW ep, but a solid one. it's setting up for future relations with the hollow earthers, and left some things dangling to revisit in the future.

Feast of the Muse
April 16th, 2011, 04:08 PM
<snip>

*how do we know john who really wrote the 'all depts have been paid'? it could have been adam...


You know, I wondered that too. Wonder if Hyde showed up at a good time. You'd think Helen could spot whether the "signature" (it's so big, can you call it that?) was legitimate or not, though... right? Plus, Adam and Hyde are so arrogant, you'd think they wouldn't give up that colorem device and their plans to make a big boom so easily.



*i wish more time or detail could have been done for helen's cure.


I think Helen's cure was explained "better" (not that it was actually explained) in the scene with Adam using the same thing on himself. Kind of a shame, but at least she's not facing death at this very moment anymore. There was a lot of speculation that a cure could be handed to them once they got to Hollow Earth, and it was. A little bit lame, but no more so than the instant diagnosis and treatment of Kanaan.



*it really wasn't nice to execute them. :p you'd think for such an advanced society, they'd be more civil with each other. but ranna (and lavaslug creature) both felt that kindness was better than chaos. that's not the right words, so if anyone remembers, type up. :p

Harmony over conflict, I think it was.



my one huge niggling prob... ~below~

*the sound is just awful for me (and my mom). but when i rewatched it on hulu today, the sound was just as bad! i did some adjustments to reduce the background blaring/muffling sound and make the dialog easier to hear. this is a constant problem with this program for me. my mom doesn't even want to try watching anymore, when she misses 50 to 75 percent of the dialog. :/


I haven't noticed this, although I refuse to watch sports on NBC for much the same reason. Can't hear the actual dialog over the background noise. I'm pretty particular about the sound. Maybe you should check the settings on your TV? Could be they are sending you one signal and your set is treating it like another. I'll go check it on Hulu.

EvenstarSRV
April 16th, 2011, 04:26 PM
I have this continuing frustration with how shows treat psychopaths....they will never reform, so why do you waste time trying to reason with them? how come you don't just bloody well kill them and put us all out of your misery???

It just annoys me when shows have people like Adam, who is allowed to terrorize and meddle for months/years on a show, just because no one seems to have the cajones to kill them. I find it tiring. Every time I saw Adam I was like 'ok, so the city can't just incapacitate him? the guards won't kill him? y'all can't start a rock fall to trap him in an airless chamber to die?

it's very frustrating to watch

This is one of the reasons why I do hope Adam is really dead. I think the show has handled Adam fairly well so far, he was shown to be outsmarting the city's defenses and had hidden allies to help him. Out of the Sanctuary team it was really only Will who kept trying to reason with him I thought, which I think makes sense for the character since he doesn't have the perspective Helen and Druitt have and was more likely to see the victim in Adam.

But by the end of this episode, I see no reason why Druitt of all people wouldn't just kill Adam outright and be done with him, esp after what he did to Helen. I suppose if his minions found his body they could bring him back to life again, but that would feel like too much of a reset to me.

charles582
April 16th, 2011, 04:28 PM
I was wondering. Are fallon's eyes are they suppose to look like cat's eyes or a reptile's or what?

majorsal
April 16th, 2011, 04:34 PM
You know, I wondered that too. Wonder if Hyde showed up at a good time. You'd think Helen could spot whether the "signature" (it's so big, can you call it that?) was legitimate or not, though... right?

you're right, helen would notice. :p

unless john was 'forced' to write that...


Harmony over conflict, I think it was.

i think that's it too. i liked the saying :p


I haven't noticed this, although I refuse to watch sports on NBC for much the same reason. Can't hear the actual dialog over the background noise. I'm pretty particular about the sound. Maybe you should check the settings on your TV? Could be they are sending you one signal and your set is treating it like another. I'll go check it on Hulu.

i thought maybe it was our tv (since one of the speakers is out), but when i got to hulu and still had probs...

it might just be that the tv and my computer speakers aren't sophisticated enough to handle the higher quality audios? them filming on the red camera; maybe the audio is recorded for better quality, but doesn't come out too well with cheaper type speakers?

i don't know what i'm talking about. :p

Julian
April 16th, 2011, 04:42 PM
I have this continuing frustration with how shows treat psychopaths....they will never reform, so why do you waste time trying to reason with them? how come you don't just bloody well kill them and put us all out of your misery???

I also don't like when they either forget that Will is a "forensic psychiatrist" (though sometimes referred to as a forensic psychologist), or that when he tries to say someting ~insightful~ related to his 8/10+ years of university study and practical experience, he always just sounds... stupid. It kind of bugs me from a realistic perspective (as someone who is studying Psychology with the hopes of becoming a Forensic Psychologist); like doctors who can't watch shows like Grey's Anatomy :P


*ranna was alright, but for someone running the city, it sure seemed like helen was the one figuring stuff out . :p

Yeah, I don't get this. For a civlisation of advanced humans and abnormals dating back at least 8,000 years, you think they would be a lot smarter, and more importantly, WISER. But instead they're acting like a bunch of rigid control freaks. (Like for example, in terms of SG-1, compare the Tollen to the Asguard...). It's a bit cliched that these advanced civilisations are always so cruel and anti-outsiders, and this whole "you're being sentenced to death for turning up" or "I have to do it because of the senate" thing is so :/

BTW, we found out why when Ranna executed them, the other people in the room were only hollograms - the senate were hiding in a bunker...

KayLyne
April 16th, 2011, 04:44 PM
*how do we know john who really wrote the 'all depts have been paid'? it could have been adam...
For that part, I was flashing back to when Helen found John stoned out of his mind in Tokyo(?) earlier this season. He said, "leave me alone. I owe you nothing."

And also to the fact that it was John who helped Adam stay alive (for a while, at least) in the water after he had fallen off the cliff after Helen shot him. I'm guessing John felt he owed Helen for 1) not telling her about it, and 2) because it ultimately did keep Adam alive. Thus serving up a whole lot of grief, pain, and illness for Helen in the past few months.

It also probably also goes back to the beginning where John arrives at the sanctuary & forces Helen to give him her blood to keep him alive. Or it could still be that he has felt the need to offer her penance for all of the killing he's done through the years, and all the heartache he's caused her.

Knowing these two, there's a very LONG list of reasons that he's had debts to repay to her.

majorsal
April 16th, 2011, 04:47 PM
For that part, I was flashing back to when Helen found John stoned out of his mind in Tokyo(?) earlier this season. He said, "leave me alone. I owe you nothing."

And also to the fact that it was John who helped Adam stay alive (for a while, at least) in the water after he had fallen off the cliff after Helen shot him. I'm guessing John felt he owed Helen for 1) not telling her about it, and 2) because it ultimately did keep Adam alive. Thus serving up a whole lot of grief, pain, and illness for Helen in the past few months.

It also probably also goes back to the beginning where John arrives at the sanctuary & forces Helen to give him her blood to keep him alive. Or it could still be that he has felt the need to offer her penance for all of the killing he's done through the years, and all the heartache he's caused her.

Knowing these two, there's a very LONG list of reasons that he's had debts to repay to her.

wow, you're good! :p i believe this now.

Feast of the Muse
April 16th, 2011, 05:59 PM
Ok, watching on Hulu to listen for your audio issues, majorsal, and heard the conversation between Adam and John again.


John: Here's the thing, my dear, sweet little Worth - you best off me now, because when I escape, I'm going to use you to redefine suffering.

Since there isn't an audience here (Helen, Will, etc.) John has no reason to say anything he doesn't mean. So, I'm thinking he tore Adam to shreds - or at least has whisked him away somewhere in order to do so. Let's hope Adam didn't get free in the process.

Also, I do hear what you are talking about. I'm able to understand them, but I do with the sonic atmosphere could be turned down a bit. I'll keep watching and see how it sounds when the girls talk - at least there will be more separation in the pitch so it should be better.

majorsal
April 16th, 2011, 06:07 PM
Ok, watching on Hulu to listen for your audio issues, majorsal, and heard the conversation between Adam and John again.


John: Here's the thing, my dear, sweet little Worth - you best off me now, because when I escape, I'm going to use you to redefine suffering.

Since there isn't an audience here (Helen, Will, etc.) John has no reason to say anything he doesn't mean. So, I'm thinking he tore Adam to shreds - or at least has whisked him away somewhere in order to do so. Let's hope Adam didn't get free in the process.

Also, I do hear what you are talking about. I'm able to understand them, but I do with the sonic atmosphere could be turned down a bit. I'll keep watching and see how it sounds when the girls talk - at least there will be more separation in the pitch so it should be better.

thanks for what john said, b/c i didn't know he said that! :p

i seem to have the most prob with female voices (mom too), and i could barely understand anything ranna said! my mom said it's when you add the accent that it makes it even worse.


so, i might be very alone in this, but i hope adam isn't dead. i think the actor (ian tracy?) did a great job with the roll, and i like the reaction we get from helen b/c of him. :p

Feast of the Muse
April 16th, 2011, 07:06 PM
Ranna says, "We both believe that harmony is preferable to conflict."

Chelle DB
April 16th, 2011, 07:43 PM
My favourite part was the turbo lift thingy going up through to the surface...well the underground surface if you know what I mean. :)
Ian Tracy continues to blow me away...I kinda hope that Adam isn't dead if only to see IT on Sanctuary again. But I kinda hope that Adam is dead...finally.

Skydiver
April 16th, 2011, 07:59 PM
I'm sincerely hoping he eventually - and sooner rather than later - joins the ranks of the really, truly and most sincerely dead. If he survives this season and becomes some sort of Murdock to Helen's MacGyver, i'm gonna get really fed up.

bad guys need to die. Our characters aren't stupid, but you sometimes see them acting that way to make a plot work...like Will trying to talk down the psychopath.

I can respect the 'give people a chance to redeem themselves', however characters like adam/hyde aren't going to. I mean, at lesat, if you feel the need to talk to them, stun them and tie them up and THEN talk. :)

Feast of the Muse
April 16th, 2011, 08:00 PM
Sal, I'm not having the trouble that you are in hearing the folks talk. I can see how it can be difficult to know what they are actually saying though, especially if you aren't accustomed to hearing those accents and word choices very often. I have some natural exposure to South African and Australian English on a regular basis, so I think I've been inoculated. (I've come to the point where the words I use have been altered - I say 'basil' the brit way, among others.) So I'm going to recommend for your course of treatment maybe a bit of Top Gear (the real one, not the American version), maybe some BBC news, and of course a strong dose of Sanctuary past episodes. ;)

Oh, and drinking lots of tea. (Actually that's just a way to commune with Helen. :D)

Skydiver
April 16th, 2011, 08:06 PM
you want a horrible to understand brit accent..one of the characters on Law and Order UK....he talks to fast and his accent is so thick you have to concentrate....or just catch what you can and ignore the rest :)

majorsal
April 16th, 2011, 08:08 PM
Ranna says, "We both believe that harmony is preferable to conflict."

thanks again, woman. :)

majorsal
April 16th, 2011, 08:17 PM
Sal, I'm not having the trouble that you are in hearing the folks talk. I can see how it can be difficult to know what they are actually saying though, especially if you aren't accustomed to hearing those accents and word choices very often. I have some natural exposure to South African and Australian English on a regular basis, so I think I've been inoculated. (I've come to the point where the words I use have been altered - I say 'basil' the brit way, among others.) So I'm going to recommend for your course of treatment maybe a bit of Top Gear (the real one, not the American version), maybe some BBC news, and of course a strong dose of Sanctuary past episodes. ;)

Oh, and drinking lots of tea. (Actually that's just a way to commune with Helen. :D)

:lol:

even when i tweaked the sound on my computer (in the speaker enhancements section, i'm using 'equalizer: soft'), i 'still' had probs hearing things ranna said.

it's prob my ears. and mom's. and dad's. forget it. :S

Feast of the Muse
April 16th, 2011, 08:33 PM
:lol:

even when i tweaked the sound on my computer (in the speaker enhancements section, i'm using 'equalizer: soft'), i 'still' had probs hearing things ranna said.

it's prob my ears. and mom's. and dad's. forget it. :S

Now now, we'll get it fixed. I have a mac with no special audio software here, but I've messed enough with the EQ in iTunes...

If you can get just an EQ panel, take down everything under 100Hz, (you can mess with each gate and see how you feel about the voices being affected) for the girls even everything below 500Hz might be fair game. The background is generally low frequency. If they kept it high too many people would come at them swinging. Law & Order does that a bit when the drama is building and it drives me nuts.

mandogater
April 16th, 2011, 09:41 PM
Am I the only one who thinks Adam isn't really dead?

No one is ever really dead in sci-fi or fantasy. The writers will always find a way to bring a character back if it suites them.

That being said, who's to say Adam didn't talk John into letting him go again. The blood could have been from Adam's little buddies. It was never tested to be sure who's it was.

jckfan55
April 17th, 2011, 05:46 AM
Overall, I like Pax Romana in the way I liked Hollow Men, neither wowed me, the plot at times felt a bit by the numbers, but there were enough bits of character moments that still made it enjoyable to watch. The highlights for me was stuff between Helen and Ranna (esp the parts about Kanan and the 'bloody hell' bit), Henry geeking out over the tech, and the return of Gregory. I'm looking forward to see how they'll revisit the city storyline later on.

The stuff that didn't work so well for me was Adam's part of the episode, I guess I wish he wasn't on his own being up to no good for so much of the ep, and the part with Will trying to reason with him was rather weak. We never got a good answer to what he was really up to, and since Druitt appears to have killed him I'm not sure if we ever will. I also wish Helen's cure hadn't been quite so simple, though for society that can regularly bring people back from the dead I suppose radiation poisoning isn't much of challenge.

The preview for the next ep looks like fun, it'll be nice to take a break from the Hollow Earth storyline for a while.
I with you.

Celandine
April 17th, 2011, 05:53 AM
Was it me, or was this episode a bit anti-climatic? Or maybe that was the point. I was so hyped up to see this after such a long break and was left feeling a bit unsatisfied. That's it? No more?

I agree about moving on to other storylines.

Chelle DB
April 17th, 2011, 06:23 AM
I also wish Helen's cure hadn't been quite so simple, though for society that can regularly bring people back from the dead I suppose radiation poisoning isn't much of challenge.
OMG...so I'm not the only one that feels the same way about this. Phew. :) I thought it was quite a quick jump from being dead to sitting there very much alive...and how pray tell did they do that??? I guess we may never know. The drink looked like a berry smoothie...yum!! :P But the radiation treatment...was that permanent or just a fix me upper-er?? Coz when Adam took his dose I got the feeling it was a temp fix...just something to keep him going til the next dose - "it's for my sickness...my other sickness..it's from my good friends from down here....couple of days I'll be as right as rain" - well I could take that to mean it's either a step in the treatment or a completion or one shot does the job...I dunno...maybe I should re watch it but again Helen is saved and on the mend as quick as flick. (pet peeve of mine I guess)

Still I enjoyed watching the show...it was good to see it back. I hope we get to see more of Ranna...I like Polly Walker. :)

jckfan55
April 17th, 2011, 06:26 AM
Was it me, or was this episode a bit anti-climatic? Or maybe that was the point. I was so hyped up to see this after such a long break and was left feeling a bit unsatisfied. That's it? No more?



Yeah, I think I expected a bigger conclusion. Probably wouldn't have felt that way so much without the long break. Then again, I thought the idea that they died (I was hoping it was a fake death. bringing people back from the dead is a recipe for trouble on a show, imho. Once with Will was bad enough) and Magnus's illness would be played up more.

Magnus looked way too healthy for someone with radiation poisoning. Heck, I look worse after a bad night's sleep. :D (of course I don't have the raw material AT does. Dang, she always looks good. :D)

I did like the counterpoint with Helen & the head of Hollow Earth.

Chelle DB
April 17th, 2011, 06:39 AM
Yeah, I think I expected a bigger conclusion. Probably wouldn't have felt that way so much without the long break. Then again, I thought the idea that they died (I was hoping it was a fake death. bringing people back from the dead is a recipe for trouble on a show, imho. Once with Will was bad enough) and Magnus's illness would be played up more.
Magnus looked way too healthy for someone with radiation poisoning. Heck, I look worse after a bad night's sleep. :D (of course I don't have the raw material AT does. Dang, she always looks good. :D)
I did like the counterpoint with Helen & the head of Hollow Earth.
Totally agree...it would have been nice to have seen more with the dead team...I know, that came out wrong :o...and more on Helen's illness as it was a focal point in several episodes...just to be brushed over is kinda like...where did it go?? Maybe that's what the episode lacked for me...it missed something. John's predicament was kinda thrown to the wayside and everything else just skipped.
Though I have to admit I did enjoy the father/daughter scenes...I do like Gregory so. :)

dipsofjazz
April 17th, 2011, 09:25 AM
OMG...so I'm not the only one that feels the same way about this. Phew. :) I thought it was quite a quick jump from being dead to sitting there very much alive...and how pray tell did they do that??? I guess we may never know. The drink looked like a berry smoothie...yum!! :P But the radiation treatment...was that permanent or just a fix me upper-er?? Coz when Adam took his dose I got the feeling it was a temp fix...just something to keep him going til the next dose - "it's for my sickness...my other sickness..it's from my good friends from down here....couple of days I'll be as right as rain" - well I could take that to mean it's either a step in the treatment or a completion or one shot does the job...I dunno...maybe I should re watch it but again Helen is saved and on the mend as quick as flick. (pet peeve of mine I guess)

Still I enjoyed watching the show...it was good to see it back. I hope we get to see more of Ranna...I like Polly Walker. :)

Maybe the fact that Adam is still using his time-jumpy-thingy means that he'll still get radiation poisoning, whereas Helen will be okay as long as she doesn't jump again?

I enjoyed the episode, although I found it to be lacking something.

The Helen and Ranna interaction was nice, although working out the cure for the abnormal seemed to be too quick.

John was there at the beginning and at the end, but we didn't see him do anything. Kate wasn't needed in this episode, and seemed out of place. Adam works better when we see him talking with other people, being Jekyll and Hyde, rather than just being the evil mad baddie.

Perhaps I was looking for more from this episode after such a long time without any Sanctuary. I look forward to more 'normal' stories, rather than super-beings and super-technology that can do super things such as bring the dead back to life.

Celandine
April 17th, 2011, 10:29 AM
Magnus looked way too healthy for someone with radiation poisoning. Heck, I look worse after a bad night's sleep. :D (of course I don't have the raw material AT does. Dang, she always looks good. :D)

I did like the counterpoint with Helen & the head of Hollow Earth.

Totally agree with you. She looked worse in prior episodes so with the progression of time, she *should* have at least looked in the same condition, not better.

Also, and I don't mean to nitpick, but when Helen and Ranna landed on Kanan to help heal him, shouldnt the heat from the lava been intense? They were just feet above it and they didnt even look like they broke a sweat. :P

JanSam
April 17th, 2011, 10:56 AM
Also, and I don't mean to nitpick, but when Helen and Ranna landed on Kanan to help heal him, shouldnt the heat from the lava been intense? They were just feet above it and they didnt even look like they broke a sweat. :P

Ah yes that must have been one hell of a personal shield that Henry came up with on the spur of the moment eh.

I do not know if it was my anticipation for the return or if they tried to wrap too much up in the one episode but...I also felt the episode was missing something. It was a good episode; but I guess I had higher expectations for it. I look forward to next episode all the same.

KayLyne
April 17th, 2011, 11:09 AM
Also, and I don't mean to nitpick, but when Helen and Ranna landed on Kanan to help heal him, shouldnt the heat from the lava been intense? They were just feet above it and they didnt even look like they broke a sweat. :P
Weren't they supposed to be in some kind of heat shield or something? That was something that Henry suggested that they'd need, in the size of an Ipod, right? Ranna said they'd easily get a power source to match or something.

I felt quite a letdown to begin with in this episode. They leave us with the cliffhanger that the gang is all dead in some way (ooooh, big high-energy end to the last episode) and then this one starts quietly with John & Adam bantering about? Very underwhelming. It could have at least started with Helen waking on the floor. Very disappointing.

However, I think it was the long wait of the mid-season hiatus between episodes that made it much more disappointing. I guess if you play the two episodes back-to-back, it would just look like them cutting to another scene after all were presumed dead, then coming right back.

Steff
April 17th, 2011, 11:39 AM
Magnus looked way too healthy for someone with radiation poisoning. Heck, I look worse after a bad night's sleep. :D (of course I don't have the raw material AT does. Dang, she always looks good. :D)



Maybe one of Helen's powers is fast healing. Not enough to totally cure the radiation sickness in the long run but enough to keep her functioning on adrenaline.

kes
April 17th, 2011, 12:21 PM
you want a horrible to understand brit accent..one of the characters on Law and Order UK....he talks to fast and his accent is so thick you have to concentrate....or just catch what you can and ignore the rest :)


:lol:

even when i tweaked the sound on my computer (in the speaker enhancements section, i'm using 'equalizer: soft'), i 'still' had probs hearing things ranna said.

it's prob my ears. and mom's. and dad's. forget it. :S

One word: Subtitles :D

Skydiver
April 17th, 2011, 01:28 PM
I agree. Helen's cure was just 'oh, by the way'.
I had the same question about the head. 2000+ degrees and they don't seem to feel it?

and, to me, over all the episode wasn't bad. It was just kinda 'meh'. Everything, almost anyway, wrapped up neatly in 43 minutes, with very little angst or interactions.

anti-climactic is a good word.

it's not bad, just didn't seem to deliver on the buildup.

I too look forward to more regular episodes, 'normal' people and average events.

next week's looks great

Feast of the Muse
April 17th, 2011, 01:37 PM
I too look forward to more regular episodes, 'normal' people and average events.


"Monster of the week" works well for Sanctuary. :P



anti-climactic is a good word.


Yes it is! I was thrilled to see our heroes in action again, but this episode was missing the meat somehow (or the tempeh, for the veggies among us).

badwolfSG
April 17th, 2011, 04:32 PM
One question from my part: Kate's hair ?:S?

I was wondering what when wrong there too, actually I was wondering why the team looked pretty good for just being killed, and Kate looked like she had just been dead: or coming off a bad case of the flu.

majorsal
April 17th, 2011, 04:45 PM
Totally agree with you. She looked worse in prior episodes so with the progression of time, she *should* have at least looked in the same condition, not better.

Also, and I don't mean to nitpick, but when Helen and Ranna landed on Kanan to help heal him, shouldnt the heat from the lava been intense? They were just feet above it and they didnt even look like they broke a sweat. :P

maybe the mushrooms helen ate helped her 'enough', b/f the actual cure?

yeah, i was thinking that too. wait, didn't henry's little shieldy thinger protect them?

Celandine
April 17th, 2011, 06:19 PM
I was wondering what when wrong there too, actually I was wondering why the team looked pretty good for just being killed, and Kate looked like she had just been dead: or coming off a bad case of the flu.

Haha! I'm glad I'm not the only one who looked twice. Her hair looked like someone tweezed it or something. Like she stuck her finger in a light socket. :P Poor Kate.


maybe the mushrooms helen ate helped her 'enough', b/f the actual cure?

yeah, i was thinking that too. wait, didn't henry's little shieldy thinger protect them?

I thought the shield was meant for the little capsules they rode in? I'll have to go back and check that scene again where they meet up with Helen's father in the tunnels. That's where their plans changed. Might have missed something.

But, question. If there was a shield up and around Kanan (and a darn good one it was then to protect from that intense heat), wouldn't it protect Ranna when she nearly slipped and fell into the lava? Would she have gone through the shield or perhaps just bounced off it? Like one of those giant blow-up castles. Run into it and you bounce right off the side walls. :P

majorsal
April 17th, 2011, 06:30 PM
But, question. If there was a shield up and around Kanan (and a darn good one it was then to protect from that intense heat), wouldn't it protect Ranna when she nearly slipped and fell into the lava? Would she have gone through the shield or perhaps just bounced off it? Like one of those giant blow-up castles. Run into it and you bounce right off the side walls. :P

i thought the shield was just around helen and ranna?

KayLyne
April 17th, 2011, 06:31 PM
<snip>
I thought the shield was meant for the little capsules they rode in? I'll have to go back and check that scene again where they meet up with Helen's father in the tunnels. That's where their plans changed. Might have missed something. <snip>
But their plans only changed in what they were going to use to treat Kanan. They were first going to be climbing on him, and inject him with something, then it became that they needed to get the parasite out. So their means of protection wouldn't have changed from the original plan.

And I figured that they each had a personal shield on them, kind of like what Tesla made for Helen to get into the city without being killed - or what he used back in the Sanctuary when he & Helen needed to be shielded so their source blood couldn't be detected by the map.

Skydiver
April 17th, 2011, 06:34 PM
i didn't think kanaan needed a shield, swimming in lava was his natural state

of course to do that he'd need tough, insulated hide...that helen cut easily through....and how would the parasite get in side such tough and thick skin?

NumberSix
April 17th, 2011, 10:16 PM
Was it me, or was this episode a bit anti-climatic? Or maybe that was the point. I was so hyped up to see this after such a long break and was left feeling a bit unsatisfied. That's it? No more?

.

I kind of felt that way too. There were so many episodes that led into them going to Hollow Earth and then it just seemed to get resolved a little too easily I thought. But I realize it's only 45 minutes to resolve it all so if they wanted to keep it to one episode it was handled pretty well.

Wondered why with their advanced technology and knowledge that the Hollow Earthlings wouldn't have considered the possibility that Kanaan had the parasite in him. They apparently knew the critters were around.

Fun to watch Henry with the gadgets.

As someone else mentioned: Adam's expression when he sees John ("you and I have unfinished business") = priceless.

Missed Tesla. All that work on the holographic pinata and shield and he gets left behind and has no part in the resolution.

Mousie
April 17th, 2011, 11:02 PM
I thought the exact same thing, that a creature that lies on top of and in lava would have some pretty hefty skin which I wouldn't think would yield to a little laser.

I did enjoy the episode but like others thought that the loss of the Adam/Worth shifting personality took away from it a bit.

Julian
April 18th, 2011, 05:02 AM
What I find weird with the episode is the scene when Ranna, Helen and Kate are making their way towards Kanan. More specificaly, the few seconds before they meet Gregory, when they come across the bug.

You see the bug crawling, and then Helen goes "wait! -scans for bug- THERE!" and then someone fires.

They showed us the bug already, why couldn't Helen see it?

Spimman
April 18th, 2011, 08:34 AM
I really enjoyed this episode, my only gripe is a few things seemed a bit too easy.
-We rived you
-Take this hypospray
-You deserve death, oh not anymore, let us allow you and your friends unrestricted access
-We have no defense against Adam and his cloaky friends
-Dad???
-OK, we'll call you and become best friends later on

They just went from being executed to trusting best friends in about 30 minutes, but I got past that pretty quick and really enjoyed the episode! Loved all the technology and the harmony of a society of humans and abnormals.

Feast of the Muse
April 18th, 2011, 10:33 AM
What I find weird with the episode is the scene when Ranna, Helen and Kate are making their way towards Kanan. More specificaly, the few seconds before they meet Gregory, when they come across the bug.

You see the bug crawling, and then Helen goes "wait! -scans for bug- THERE!" and then someone fires.

They showed us the bug already, why couldn't Helen see it?

I was under the distinct impression that Helen could see it, but wanted a judgment on it. Ranna recognized it as a threat, said "weapons" or whatever. They lost it in a shadow, then Helen (in the lead) spotted it again and said so, and then Ranna fired on it.

That actually explains why Helen made the diagnosis so quickly even though Ranna and Gregory had been working on the problem for a while. Sometimes it takes an outside perspective to make a breakthrough - even the brainiacs can get stuck in their thought patterns. Ranna not seeing the spots on Kanaan's flank is an example. She no doubt looked at the image many times trying to figure out the problem. The little beasts being predatory was more or less new information to Helen, and she could easily jump to a conclusion that the Praxis citizens were looking right over.

Skydiver
April 18th, 2011, 01:19 PM
one thing that was hampering Ranna....did you catch her list of 'remedies'? she sent probes, nanites, etc. not once did she say 'i examined him'....if henry could cobble together a shield, the praxians could have.

another example of 'if the tech says it's right, it's right'...whether it is or not

Feast of the Muse
April 18th, 2011, 03:53 PM
one thing that was hampering Ranna....did you catch her list of 'remedies'? she sent probes, nanites, etc. not once did she say 'i examined him'....if henry could cobble together a shield, the praxians could have.

another example of 'if the tech says it's right, it's right'...whether it is or not

I got the impression that the Praxians weren't into exploring very much. Why leave the high-rises when you have all those cool toys? Those people looked like they could use a good hike to get the stick out of their butts. And you realize, of course, that means that none of the Praxians had ever gone skydiving. I'm thinking they are a little repressed of their own doing.

jckfan55
April 19th, 2011, 02:48 PM
I thought the exact same thing, that a creature that lies on top of and in lava would have some pretty hefty skin which I wouldn't think would yield to a little laser.


Good point. Though maybe it was already sensing they were trying to help him as helen mentioned noticing later. :S

Skydiver
April 19th, 2011, 06:31 PM
Few things I noticed on the rewatch:

you see the little shield envelop helen and ranna, which explains them not bursting into flames with the heat...but there is the plothole of them being able to rouch Kanaan and use the laser to cut into him through said shield

i'd thought that adam got the kellorm device so he could potentially time travel, but he doesn't get it, druitt stops him.

there's definitely more to praxis than meets the eye with adam's comments about outland tribes, etc.

i'm wondering if the 'protect the world from the hyperspecies' line can also be translated into 'we're running a prison'....course helen is too in a way, but i do wonder if the whole 'surface is evil' means that those that want to leave aren't allowed to.

JanSam
April 19th, 2011, 07:10 PM
Few things I noticed on the rewatch:

you see the little shield envelop helen and ranna, which explains them not bursting into flames with the heat...but there is the plothole of them being able to rouch Kanaan and use the laser to cut into him through said shield

and just how does a laser even work on a creature that LIVES in molten lava?


i'd thought that adam got the kellorm device so he could potentially time travel, but he doesn't get it, druitt stops him.
True, the device is returned. But if Adam is still alive or has allies; what's to say he won't go after it again without Helen's knowledge.


there's definitely more to praxis than meets the eye with adam's comments about outland tribes, etc.

Ok....I'll have to re-watch this part because I have no idea what comments you are referring to. :P

i'm wondering if the 'protect the world from the hyperspecies' line can also be translated into 'we're running a prison'....course helen is too in a way, but i do wonder if the whole 'surface is evil' means that those that want to leave aren't allowed to.[/QUOTE]

Yeah there is still a lot we don't know about the place including their true intentions. But then why would Gregory want to be a part of it?

suse
April 19th, 2011, 07:35 PM
I thought the exact same thing, that a creature that lies on top of and in lava would have some pretty hefty skin which I wouldn't think would yield to a little laser.

I did enjoy the episode but like others thought that the loss of the Adam/Worth shifting personality took away from it a bit.


Perhaps the laser was a modifies lightsaber. Cuts thru everything but one type of material. Which Kanaan wasn't made of. :P

Yeah. Adam - as much as I liked him :eek: in other eps fell flat for me here. And if I were Ranna, I'd have killed him and thrown him into the lava. hard to recover from that.

Feast of the Muse
April 19th, 2011, 07:37 PM
The outland tribes are mentioned a time or two, mostly with Ranna's assistant. I'm under the impression that as with the sanctuary network, humans are running the show and calling the shots. Sounds like some tension and I'm sure we'll get to hear about it in future episodes.

Ok, I need to get this sorted as well. The 'grave danger' that they hyped so much in the commercials for this half-season, that's all gone now because Helen healed Kanaan, right? The world is no longer on standby for massive volcanic eruptions?

Skydiver
April 19th, 2011, 07:40 PM
i think gregory has tech envy...and is enthralled with all the abbies around.

I don't have the transcript totally done yet but


Ranna: This society existed while your ancestors were hiding in caves. For 8,000 years. Our very reason for being is to maintain order. To hold back the beings from within this realm from ever reaching the surface. If this city falls...

Magnus: So does the surface.

Ranna: We maintain peace between humans and abnormals, despite the fact that there are many species who seek our destruction.


suggesting that, well there are some mean abbies, but her words could also be interprted to be spin for 'people refuse to do what we want them to do'. To use a very extreme example, i'm sure the colonists saw the native population as 'seeking their destruction'



Magnus: Dear God, you have cameras everywhere. Every tribe, every race.

why would a sanctuary like praxis be so monitored unless it had something to fear?


Will: If this city is 8,000 years old, it predates any ancient civilization that we know of.

Fallon: The founders of Praxis were humans of extraordinary intelligence. Builders, thinkers, who came here after a long struggle with the Akhkharu.

Will: Vampires.

Fallon: So Ranna's ancestors left them to rule the surface, while they controlled the underworld.

Will: Didn't the... Akhkharu ever try to mess with you down here?

Fallon: Many times, which is why our city's defenses are so advanced. Now we keep our most violent species at bay.

this suggests to me the beginnings of the 'surface is bad' thing. At first, yes it was. but it's now a story that's been perpetrated to keep control.


Fallon: We keep peace and order for a million lives. Prevent chaos from spreading to the surface. For us, trust must be earned.

'prevent chaos from spreading to the surface'....i think the translation is 'abbies will not get out of here to run free'....not a bad thing certainly, but I think it depends on just how it's done and which side you're on


Adam: I think you know how they treat people like us. There isn't a lot of emotional inventory.

now, Adam is nuts, but his words suggest a double standard or a 'you are lesser, i'm better than you' attitude


Adam: Fallon...We both know that the device could give you complete control over the city's weapons systems, you, and your tribal allies in the Senate. Pity the poor humans. There's a new species of sheriff in town. I'm kind of on to you.

Fallon: Ranna's time is over. This city has had too much power for too long.

Adam: Frankly, I don't care if you depose Ranna, or send all the humans here scurrying for the surface like the little rats that they are. No, I care that you're thinking too small. The device has a far more meaningful destiny. My point, my dear... Is that the deal's off.

tribal allies, wanting to depose ranna, there's some real conflict going on. are the tribes people like fallon, abbies that are deemed 'lesser'? Is ranna's leadership benevolent, or is she a puppet for the senate...and who makes up the senate? Fallon was the only abbie we saw that was really doing anything, the rest of ranna's staff were humans - or abbies that looked human.

Helen isn't really much better than Praxis in some of what she does. Some abbies are there as a refuge, but others are prisoners. And I think it's only helen's ethics that draws that line between keeper and captor

dee
April 19th, 2011, 08:52 PM
I sure hope so! John was just dying to get the chance to wipe him out. I mean come on Adam wanted to set a killer virus onto the world.

dee
April 19th, 2011, 09:14 PM
It was either Malaysia or Thailand by the looks of the environment and the people John hired to watch his back.

dee
April 19th, 2011, 09:21 PM
I still would like to see Biggy and Henry go to the comicon convention as side story, just something out of the blue.

Feast of the Muse
April 19th, 2011, 09:22 PM
Oh yeah, I remember it being somewhere that Amanda has traveled for S4K. I don't think it was actually Nepal but it was definitely something close.

ETA: I just checked the wikia (http://sanctuary.wikia.com/wiki/For_King_and_Country) and it states that she went to Cambodia to rescue John - not as close as I thought.

dee
April 19th, 2011, 09:31 PM
Yea, why didnt Helen even ask why John was there and what happened. By the way why was everybody ready to off John but gave Adam plenty of second chances. Adam was a killer and wanted to destroy most every thing after his daughter died, John also a killer but was treated worst then Adam even though we know its mostly not really John's fault that he kills.

dee
April 19th, 2011, 09:34 PM
maybe it was that pink berry smoothie and healthy food she ate while she was there.

Feast of the Muse
April 19th, 2011, 09:41 PM
Yea, why didnt Helen even ask why John was there and what happened. By the way why was everybody ready to off John but gave Adam plenty of second chances. Adam was a killer and wanted to destroy most every thing after his daughter died, John also a killer but was treated worst then Adam even though we know its mostly not really John's fault that he kills.

You should pop over to the For King and Country (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?77826-For-King-amp-Country-%28308%29) discussion and ask there. I'm not sure that Adam is treated any better than John, but they are both pretty scary... though I admit to loving John anyway. :rolleyes:

dee
April 19th, 2011, 10:19 PM
likly the way most parasites get in, they wrap their tails around your throat bite you in the neck a suck away your life force. just kidding, mostly threw the host's mouth or open wound, Kanaan has got to eat some how and Helen did use a laser of some kind to open the hide. Henry invented the lava hide gutting laser, some one want to name it?

dee
April 19th, 2011, 10:23 PM
becuase it blends into its enviroment according to Gregory, making it impossible to see until it strikes, whooo it cloaks its self.

Skydiver
April 20th, 2011, 04:03 AM
technically it's magma, not lava. Lava is outside the volcano, magma is under the earth.

Nitpicky and I apologize, but....however, whatever it's called that is a valid plot point. how did magnus get that laser outside her shield without scorching herself, and how did it cut through something so thick as to withstand immersion in magma..and how did that bug get in Kanaan in the first place?

Mousie
April 20th, 2011, 05:11 AM
[QUOTE=Feast of the Muse;12534598]The outland tribes are mentioned a time or two, mostly with Ranna's assistant. I'm under the impression that as with the sanctuary network, humans are running the show and calling the shots. Sounds like some tension and I'm sure we'll get to hear about it in future episodes.
QUOTE]

As they mentioned in the previous ep, the mushroom farmers weren't allowed in the city. They said they had to get a permit just to deliver the crop twice a year. Also although they willingly shared food with Helen and Will, it didn't look like they had much themselves.

They mentioned to Henry as well that no unauthorised transformations were allowed so it does all sound pretty authoritarian.

Feast of the Muse
April 20th, 2011, 09:52 AM
technically it's magma, not lava. Lava is outside the volcano, magma is under the earth.

Nitpicky and I apologize, but....however, whatever it's called that is a valid plot point. how did magnus get that laser outside her shield without scorching herself, and how did it cut through something so thick as to withstand immersion in magma..and how did that bug get in Kanaan in the first place?

Ranna mentioned that they had tried all those treatments for him "before he went deeper" and that now the nanites wouldn't work where he was. So obviously he moves... is he a like a magma shark? I thought he vaguely resembled a nurse shark, minus most of the fins. Anyway, what I really want to know is what the boy eats. What survives in the magma? I am assuming he eats what's in there as if the magma was his ocean. If the predatory little parasite did go in through his mouth, you'd think a tooth or two would have gotten it. But, if it burrowed in on his back, you'd think we'd see the entry point. Yeah, I'm no help on this one.

As for their shields, I assumed it was part of the black suits they were wearing - I never did see a shimmering or whatever. I wondered how their hands and ears weren't scorched, but figured it was like when Tesla put himself and Helen into one to avoid blowing up the Sanctuary - just the shield being connected to their bodies was enough. As the laser is really only light, and they can see through the shield, I can easily buy the laser going through the shield.

Skydiver
April 20th, 2011, 11:25 AM
you do see a bit of shimmer, just before they see kanaan, them activating the shield, then it's invisible (a cost saving measure i'm sure)

Abnormal
April 24th, 2011, 05:26 AM
What a comeback! One of the best episodes to me. I do hope we'll see the new characters again soon because I found the relationship between Helen and the other woman very interesting and I'd like to see it evolve. I was glad that Helen found her father too but kind of disappointed by his decision not to come back with his daughter, though I expected it and understand his reasons.

jckfan55
April 26th, 2011, 02:09 PM
^While I feel sorry for Helen not having her dad around, for the show I'm glad he's only an occasional character. It's Helen's Sanctuary now.

charles582
April 27th, 2011, 07:10 PM
What do you guys think will happen to fallon after this little incident?

suse
April 27th, 2011, 08:01 PM
temporary death? :lol: Til someone revives her.

Feast of the Muse
April 27th, 2011, 11:42 PM
Here's something I keep forgetting to ask: what do you think Henry did to obtain the DNA sample he needed to hack the classified files? 'Cause he tells Will, "Don't ask." Up to our imaginations, eh?

Julian
April 28th, 2011, 07:37 AM
^I don't get with their little jokes... are they implying Henry did something sexual?

What do you guys think will happen to fallon after this little incident?
Who knows, but isn't she returning in e20?

charles582
April 30th, 2011, 11:02 PM
I heard ranna mention that helen had injured three of the guards near the beginning of the episode. Did anyone see that happen? I don't recall seeing that?

meredithchandler73
May 3rd, 2011, 01:43 PM
All I can say is.... wow, with a side order of brilliant and awesome for take out. :p

This episode had everything, great story, interesting characters and it was very smart and clever. :) I think this was a solid episode all around, it was well worth the wait, I loved Helen and Ranna's scenes together, they had some good chemistry, and I loved their "Bloody hell" line together. :D As well as the wink Helen gave back to her dad. :p

I loved seeing Henry geek out over the tech in the rooms, and how Helen asked Kate to "keep a lid on him" :p One thing I really liked was how Will and the others kept worrying about Helen getting cured, and wouldn't work with Ranna until she got help, like that, it shows a good team. :) And Ranna had the cure for Helen in her hand. :p I love the scenes with Helen and her dad they were sweet, and it was nice to see Helen so happy. :) I knew that weird eye looking girl was bad, and I was hoping for her to get caught. ;)

Since Breach, I've wanted to see Adam die, and I'm sure he did, but it would have been nice to see it. :p When I saw John covered in blood, I was like ":eek: Man, he is maaaaad!" :p Overall it was a great episode, and it was well worth the wait. ;) As always, I'll review more in my replies. :)

Loved a lot of the same things you did in this episode. There was one thing I don't think anyone else mentioned and I'm rather surprised that no one brought up. There were obviously many parallels between Helen and Ranna: both strong women, leaders, belief in harmony between humans and abnormals (their leadership roles are very similar - keeping the balance between the two worlds), intelligent, and compassionate (I got the sense that Ranna would have helped Gregory if he had explained the situation rather than simply breaking the rules to get a message to Will for Helen). One more similarity between the ladies - THE GUN BUM! When the geothermal tremor occurs and Helen disarms Fallon and points the weapon at Ranna, RANNA SUDDENLY HAS A WEAPON AS WELL! She had been empty-handed moments before and I don't think was close enough to the desk to have grabbed it from there. I THINK RANNA HAS A GUN BUM, TOO!!! Anyway, I loved that moment!



This is one of the reasons why I do hope Adam is really dead. I think the show has handled Adam fairly well so far, he was shown to be outsmarting the city's defenses and had hidden allies to help him. Out of the Sanctuary team it was really only Will who kept trying to reason with him I thought, which I think makes sense for the character since he doesn't have the perspective Helen and Druitt have and was more likely to see the victim in Adam.

But by the end of this episode, I see no reason why Druitt of all people wouldn't just kill Adam outright and be done with him, esp after what he did to Helen. I suppose if his minions found his body they could bring him back to life again, but that would feel like too much of a reset to me.

John threatens Adam with using him "to redefine suffering" when he escapes. I'm not sure whether Adam is still alive, but I have to believe that John kept his promise and made Adam suffer immensely. How long would John want to torture Adam? When John was still at Adam's mercy, he was told that Helen and her team were dead. I was thinking that John may not have even found out that they were revived when he got free and sought revenge on Adam. But then, why leave the message "All debts are paid in full. - John" unless it was a message to Helen? I would think Adam would tell John she had been revived if John was torturing him. And Adam would have known that from his spy Fallon.

Of course, I am totally curious to know what John did to Adam.

Feast of the Muse
May 5th, 2011, 03:18 PM
Did Helen and Ranna discuss the map or key to Hollow Earth at all? Such as any additional information they may have gleaned from the map?

charles582
May 6th, 2011, 10:35 PM
In the episode description, They say ranna has a hidden agenda. Anybody figure out what that is?

Matt G
June 8th, 2011, 04:28 AM
1. The hidden agenda was 'officially' killing the Sancturary team only to revive them later on to get more intel.

2. Wasn't sure quite what Fallon's counterpart was meant to be, it seemed as though Helen recognised her.

3. Wasn't expecting to see Gregory again.

4. Yeah, Helen's cure seemed a bit of a footnote.

5. Hopefully that's the last we see of Adam.

Solid enough.

kes
June 8th, 2011, 07:01 AM
[...]
2. Wasn't sure quite what Fallon's counterpart was meant to be, it seemed as though Helen recognised her.
[...]
Magnus recognized the species.

mathpiglet
March 6th, 2012, 12:26 PM
Don't get me wrong, I adore Jim Byrnes. I loved him in Highlander and he's a fabulous singer.

But he's wrong as Magnus' father. He cannot do the accent and he just does not look right.