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SoulReaver
March 23rd, 2011, 01:20 AM
ok so in that ep where Simeon suddenly acquires super-soldier powers, it is basically stated that when 2 people are connected, killing one somehow kills the other - matrix-style death ? - thereby effectively killing common sense (as well as turning this Ancient device from a very useful means of communication into an extremely dangerous piece of crap -)

now this ep suggests a slightly more plausible alternative, that the remaining person can survive - but that they can still be killed if they are in a very weakened state or something. in other words the death of one person somehow causes so much trauma to the remaining person that they may die of what, shock ?

D Toccs
March 23rd, 2011, 01:34 AM
I'd imagine that the cutting of the connection would cause some kind of "feedback".


(as well as turning this Ancient device from a very useful means of communication into an extremely dangerous piece of crap -)

You're surprised that an Ancient created device should turn out to be a highly dangerous nuisance. These are the people who invented Project Acturus, the time traveling Puddle Jumper and the Attero Device.

SoulReaver
March 23rd, 2011, 02:12 AM
I'd imagine that the cutting of the connection would cause some kind of "feedback".

You're surprised that an Ancient created device should turn out to be a highly dangerous nuisance. These are the people who invented Project Acturus, the time traveling Puddle Jumper and the Attero Device.yup. this here is different, it's more than just a side effect or a bug or something. plus it's supposed to be a communication device not a power generator, a time travel gimmick or a weapon. communication ain't supposed to imply risk, yet here they've turned even that concept into a sudden death game. lol. basically it's like the device itself is purposely designed to harm/kill the other person by sending a feedback wave, they should've been able to fix this :/

DigiFluid
March 23rd, 2011, 02:21 AM
I'd guess they probably designed them with responsible use in mind.

Here's a hammer. We're not going to make it rubber tipped because you're not supposed to hit yourself with it, and if you're dumb enough to, you get what's coming to you.

You know?

D Toccs
March 23rd, 2011, 02:31 AM
Yeah I imagine that the Ancients probably used them much more responsibly, just swap in give a report or briefing and swap back unlike the Earthlings who use them for extended periods of R and R or just to have a chat with their mum.

But still when the Ancient who designed it presented his idea and said "two people on opposite sides of the universe swap their minds into each others bodies". You would think that one of the first things his peers would bring up would be, what if one of them dies while swapped?

SoulReaver
March 23rd, 2011, 02:39 AM
I'd guess they probably designed them with responsible use in mind.

Here's a hammer. We're not going to make it rubber tipped because you're not supposed to hit yourself with it, and if you're dumb enough to, you get what's coming to you.

You know?yeah they should've designed it with common sense in mind

here's a cellphone, we're gonna add a built-in grenade because you're not supposed to drop it to the ground, and if you're careless enough to, you get what you deserve! http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/icones/smilies/non.gif

DigiFluid
March 23rd, 2011, 02:43 AM
That's not really the same thing. Following the cell-phone analogy--don't drive with it, or don't plug it into a power sub-station. Don't do colossally stupid things that it wasn't designed for and nothing bad will happen to you.

I refer back to my hammer analogy.

SoulReaver
March 23rd, 2011, 02:52 AM
That's not really the same thing. Following the cell-phone analogy--don't drive with it, or don't plug it into a power sub-station. Don't do colossally stupid things that it wasn't designed for and nothing bad will happen to you.

I refer back to my hammer analogy.nope, that'd be more like saying "dont drive, and nothing bad will happen to you or the person you're talking to"
quite sure being assassinated by a homicidal maniac while just sitting in a cell is not a planned thing nor is it colossally stupid on the victim's part (though it is colossally unfortunate). but, to refer back to my cellphone analogy, dropping an iphone to the ground definitely is

so hammers are designed for communicating ? rather violent means of communication isn't it ?

SoulReaver
March 23rd, 2011, 02:54 AM
imagine if talkie walkies had the same feature : the person you're talking to has a heart attack, you die with them http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/images/perso/gneu.gif

D Toccs
March 23rd, 2011, 02:55 AM
The hammer analogy fails because no one is going to intentionally die while using the stones.
Having an accident or an explosion in your vicinity or being murdered while using the stones is not because the person was using the stones wrong, it is out of their control.

As I said, "What if one of them dies?" should have been brought up very early in the process when the Ancients were designing the stones.
In my opinion the feedback from the cut connection would be unavoidable but if the person on the other end was fit and healthy they would survive, probably just be out cold for a few hours/days.

DigiFluid
March 23rd, 2011, 02:58 AM
Again--responsible use. They're for communication--hey, here's my report from the other side of the galaxy. Not for using while running through radiation or juggling grenades.

SoulReaver
March 23rd, 2011, 02:58 AM
As I said, "What if one of them dies?" should have been brought up very early in the process when the Ancients were designing the stones. yup. definitely sounds like very ****ty design :/


Again--responsible use. They're for communication--hey, here's my report from the other side of the galaxy. Not for using while running through radiation or juggling grenades.k then let the person getting killed be the only one responsible, not the other person on the other side of the universe who ain't even aware of what's going on. they're for communication not warfare, since when is communication supposed to be a risky business ?

D Toccs
March 23rd, 2011, 03:05 AM
Again--responsible use. They're for communication--hey, here's my report from the other side of the galaxy. Not for using while running through radiation or juggling grenades.

Obviously, but accidents can always happen and it does not mean the stones were used irresponsibly.


yup. definitely sounds like very ****ty design :/

You didn't read the rest of my post, I went on to say that I think the design would allow a fit and healthy person to survive if the other one died. The feedback is unavoidable, but a fit and healthy person should survive. I don't think the Ancients ever intended for someone like Amanda Perry to use the stones, their advanced medical technology and later healing abilities probably meant that they didn't have people in her condition.

SoulReaver
March 23rd, 2011, 03:41 AM
You didn't read the rest of my post, I went on to say that I think the design would allow a fit and healthy person to survive if the other one died. and you didn't get the gist of mine : basically I agree :/ but hey for the sake of it : it's still ****ty design. why would the feedback be unavoidable, the stones are essentially a data transfer device (memories are swapped, kinda like 2 hard drives exchanging their files), and even though it's a communication gadget the 2 people do not communicate with each other - it's a one-shot deal. the device would only keep track of the two so it can swap them back at any time. and most important: even if it's unavoidable, why the hell would such feedback be dangerous. it's just a "mind thing" so worse case scenario it should only cause a strong emotional shock or something

what exactly was Amanda Perry's condition ?

D Toccs
March 23rd, 2011, 03:57 AM
My bad on not getting the gist of your post, you know the whole "conveying tone over the internet" issue. :)

Well I would think that some sort of feedback would be inevitable as there must be some sort of subspace connection. But the more I think about it, the more I agree with you that it shouldn't really harm the person on the other end. It should be that once the minds are swapped that's it until they swap back, if I swap with someone and the person in my body breaks my nose I wouldn't feel it or even know it had happened while I was in their body. So why should the death of one body translate through the connection when physical injuries and pain do not? Seems it should all translate through or none of it should.

Amanda Perry's condition was a lifelong quadriplegic who had muscular dystrophy or whatever it was she had, so generally a very weak and frail body which I theorized could not endure the trauma that a healthy body could.
However my theory is wrong because when Young suffocated Telford in Rush's body, Rush who was in Telford's body began having seizures as well. Both of those men I would consider to be fit and healthy and yet the death of one was effecting the other.

So back to square one in that there is no safety protocol for the "what if one of them dies?" scenario.

knowles2
March 23rd, 2011, 04:19 AM
We cannot be entirely sure that there is no protocol to prevent death in the Ancient version of the device.

The one we are using on the destiny is incomplete, we only got the stones. But not the ancient base station, which could be the bit of the technology which is design to prevent . accidents and deaths. Instead we got our own home built version which bound to have left out a few of the safety protocols or bit and pieces of code that we could not figure out or get to work reliable with other bits of code or to run other bits on code on our hardware. I suspect the hardware and software we are running on is a heavily striped down version on what ever the ancients use.

I suspect it more likely to be dodgy engineering by the SGC reverse engineering department rather than a Ancient design flaw.
After all how many safety features does the Stargate has built into it. It was probably a rush job anyway, something specific for the Icarus project to allow them to communicate where ever it sent them, an something that was put together as quickly and as cheaply.

We also known that there is some residual connection between the two inhabited bodies. ever since we first found the stones.

thekillman
March 23rd, 2011, 04:31 AM
that doc said that, theoretically, a fully healthy person can survive.


but yea, considering these things are COMMUNICATIONS DEVICES, their use is communication. your cell phone is designed to communicate. it's assumed you use it responsibly, IE not phoning and driving. phoning while driving can kill you.


it's a matter of responsibility and common sense. while it seems like a major flaw, basically in the Ancient period, there wasn't a whole lot to kill you



add to that, that reviving one person causes the revival of both, and since the ancients invented the Telchak device, that's not a problem

Hagazussa
March 23rd, 2011, 04:38 AM
My main problem with the Ancient stones, which might have been interesting pieces of tech. That they are dangerous and can cause Matrix style death I think only flavor it, I like mysterious old tech in series which have a drawback or danger to using them. My main problem with them is that people change bodies and then go on to having sex with others in their borrowed bodies left and right, and no one at all seam to mind. It is like.

"I took you body for a spin."
"Ok."
"Then I had sex with a person you do not know, and for all I know you can now be pregnant or have a STD."
"Ok I hope you enjoyed yourself."

They could have done so much more with this technology, however why oh why do no one mind having their bodies end up in the beds of people they do not know or even despise even if their minds are elsewhere?

Now as for feedback. To my mind if your mind and soul is occupying a body that then dies, especially if it dies violently it would be natural that that would be an enormous trauma. In effect you die as your mind completely controls that body. Whatever or not that should kill you I do not know, but that it would be dangerous definitely. I am looking at this from a psychological point of view, so even if all you do is snap back to your own body then that would still be a shock.

That being said, imagine two electrical devices which are linked up and one have a overload, there is a good chance the overload in one would cause damage to the other. Now there is tech for about anything in Stargate so surly there have to be ways to prevent some of the danger, and for all we know the Ancients had such means, however that do not mean the characters in SGU have figured out how to use those safety measures yet.

D Toccs
March 23rd, 2011, 04:43 AM
We cannot be entirely sure that there is no protocol to prevent death in the Ancient version of the device.

The one we are using on the destiny is incomplete, we only got the stones. But not the ancient base station, which could be the bit of the technology which is design to prevent . accidents and deaths. Instead we got our own home built version which bound to have left out a few of the safety protocols or bit and pieces of code that we could not figure out or get to work reliable with other bits of code or to run other bits on code on our hardware. I suspect the hardware and software we are running on is a heavily striped down version on what ever the ancients use.

I suspect it more likely to be dodgy engineering by the SGC reverse engineering department rather than a Ancient design flaw.
After all how many safety features does the Stargate has built into it. It was probably a rush job anyway, something specific for the Icarus project to allow them to communicate where ever it sent them, an something that was put together as quickly and as cheaply.

We also known that there is some residual connection between the two inhabited bodies. ever since we first found the stones.

I like your theory. I hadn't taken into account that we are only using half the device and something the SGC jury rigged to serve as the other half. Very good point.

D Toccs
March 23rd, 2011, 04:48 AM
Now as for feedback. To my mind if your mind and soul is occupying a body that then dies, especially if it dies violently it would be natural that that would be an enormous trauma. In effect you die as your mind completely controls that body. Whatever or not that should kill you I do not know, but that it would be dangerous definitely. I am looking at this from a psychological point of view, so even if all you do is snap back to your own body then that would still be a shock.

I think you have misunderstood what we're saying. No one is suggesting that the persons mind should "snap back to it's original body". What we are saying is that if while swapped one person and the mind in that body should die, why would the other person and the mind in their body die also.

s09119
March 23rd, 2011, 05:29 AM
Why does it have to be a poor design...? For all we know, there's just no way around that particular aspect of the technology. We're talking about swapping minds here.

Tajis
March 23rd, 2011, 07:43 AM
I would say it's far more likely that it isn't a design oversight as much as it is an intentional 'feature'. It ties the fate of the two body-switchers, so that one can't take overly dangerous abuse of the other body. If you do something to abuse the connection (that can't be treated with advanced medical technology like a STD, etc), that will be terminal immediately, you die as well.

Alternatively, they 'did' evolve the ability to heal others with a touch and even revive the recently dead all Nox style, so it might not have been as big of an issue when actual Ancients were using the technology. Even before that they had devices like the healing cube (designed for their physiology) and who knows what else?

I'd cite it as a feature due to Daniel and Vala's little trip to the Ori galaxy and what happened to them. This was all on the officially branded Ancient version of the device and not our emulator.

morbosfist
March 23rd, 2011, 07:51 AM
Or maybe the Ancients, with their superior mental powers, could have just shut it off at will.

garhkal
March 23rd, 2011, 12:21 PM
However my theory is wrong because when Young suffocated Telford in Rush's body, Rush who was in Telford's body began having seizures as well. Both of those men I would consider to be fit and healthy and yet the death of one was effecting the other.

So back to square one in that there is no safety protocol for the "what if one of them dies?" scenario.

You also forget Vala/Daniel burning in Celestus, while their bodies here on earth suffered/died.
I think that statement by the scientist of "MAybe it doesn't work like that" was just his wishful thinking.
As from what we have seen/witnessed, it DOES.


We cannot be entirely sure that there is no protocol to prevent death in the Ancient version of the device.

Then why did daniel/vala suffer (vala suffered twice) when they conencted to the device in the Ori galaxy (season 9 sg1)..??




Or maybe the Ancients, with their superior mental powers, could have just shut it off at will.



Or caused the 'death effect" to not power its way through the connection.

Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble
March 23rd, 2011, 01:29 PM
I loved the argument at the start of the thread, its like hammer no like a cell phone. Serious LOLage (yes I did use the word LOLage :D).

Rylor
March 23rd, 2011, 02:00 PM
My money is on "because it was intended to be used by Ancients". We know that the Repository of Knowledge and the Neural Interface Chair on Destiny cause severe brain damage (at least it did before it was modified by Rush and Brody), but the Writers stated that it poses no danger to Ancients because of their advanced physiology.

Hagazussa
March 23rd, 2011, 02:18 PM
I think you have misunderstood what we're saying. No one is suggesting that the persons mind should "snap back to it's original body". What we are saying is that if while swapped one person and the mind in that body should die, why would the other person and the mind in their body die also.

Ok I misunderstood you, sorry. I do not know why the other person would die, perhaps a mind can not exist without it's body or vice versa, or perhaps the reason is the same as why a Wraith trapped on a planet alone for 10 000 years speak perfect English and that reason is plot convenience. :P

D Toccs
March 23rd, 2011, 05:35 PM
You also forget Vala/Daniel burning in Celestus, while their bodies here on earth suffered/died.
I think that statement by the scientist of "MAybe it doesn't work like that" was just his wishful thinking.
As from what we have seen/witnessed, it DOES.



Then why did daniel/vala suffer (vala suffered twice) when they conencted to the device in the Ori galaxy (season 9 sg1)..??



Or caused the 'death effect" to not power its way through the connection.

Well the Daniel and Vala incident is kinda different from all the other times the stones have been used. When Vala and Daniel swapped with Herod and Sallis, for some reason Herod and Sallis did not swap with them.
So I deliberately chose not to use that example because the Rush/Telford was a normal mind swap and proved the point without having to wonder about whether the situation was different.

zainea13
March 23rd, 2011, 08:53 PM
Well, I think the writers messed up the comm stones. Like, with daniel and vala, they swapped because stones were tagged with peoples identity. Which also, how do the stones know who to switch with? I'm sure there are other stones in the galaxy that people have mistakenly touched. Why not switch with them.

The communication stones are really just a big mess. But we might find out more about them in this week's episode

Rylor
March 23rd, 2011, 09:19 PM
Well the Daniel and Vala incident is kinda different from all the other times the stones have been used. When Vala and Daniel swapped with Herod and Sallis, for some reason Herod and Sallis did not swap with them.
So I deliberately chose not to use that example because the Rush/Telford was a normal mind swap and proved the point without having to wonder about whether the situation was different.

It was my impression Daniel and Vala did not switch fully because of the distance to the Ori galaxy and because there was no second communication device at the other end. When they briefly engaged it Daniel's and Vala's bodies woke up. In all other cases there was either a second device or the distance was rather short.

D Toccs
March 23rd, 2011, 11:41 PM
It was my impression Daniel and Vala did not switch fully because of the distance to the Ori galaxy and because there was no second communication device at the other end. When they briefly engaged it Daniel's and Vala's bodies woke up. In all other cases there was either a second device or the distance was rather short.

The distance from where Destiny is to the MW is almost certainly longer then from MW to the Ori galaxy.

Herod and Sallis not being in Daniel and Vala's bodies can not be due to there not being a second terminal. There was no second terminal present in Atlantis but Keller and the criminal chick swapped because at some point Keller had touched one of the stones in Janus' lab. This is exactly the same thing as what should have happened with Herod and Sallis who had touched stones in the past which is why their bodies were used.
The same thing happens again when Vala swaps into Daniel's body, Daniel is not in Vala's body on the other end. The way the stones work in SG1 is inconsistent with how they later work in SGA and SGU. This is almost certainly due to the writers not having fully developed how they wanted to use the stones at that stage.

Rylor
March 24th, 2011, 12:59 AM
The distance from where Destiny is to the MW is almost certainly longer then from MW to the Ori galaxy.

Herod and Sallis not being in Daniel and Vala's bodies can not be due to there not being a second terminal. There was no second terminal present in Atlantis but Keller and the criminal chick swapped because at some point Keller had touched one of the stones in Janus' lab. This is exactly the same thing as what should have happened with Herod and Sallis who had touched stones in the past which is why their bodies were used.
The same thing happens again when Vala swaps into Daniel's body, Daniel is not in Vala's body on the other end. The way the stones work in SG1 is inconsistent with how they later work in SGA and SGU. This is almost certainly due to the writers not having fully developed how they wanted to use the stones at that stage.

Yeah, but the distance between Keller and the criminal was much smaller. In a similar manner Young was able to swap with a Blueberry Alien despite the fact that they posessed no second terminal.
I am not sure if I remember this correctly, but when Vala (in the Ori Galaxy) swapped with Daniel, the SGC no longer had a terminal, right? If so, then this fact would actually confirm my theory.

D Toccs
March 24th, 2011, 01:05 AM
So just to make sure I've got this straight. you're theory is that unless the distance involved is relatively small, then a second terminal is required in order for the "receiving" mind to swap as well?

If that is what you are saying then I can't find any fault in your logic. I'm not sure that I agree with it 100%, but it certainly fits with what we have seen so far.

knowles2
March 24th, 2011, 07:08 AM
Here a better in universe answer.

The stones and base station SG1 use were a merlin special one off.
Merlin redesign the system he had to be one way, so that he could visit and explore the Ori Galaxy but why he was there he did not have anyone to look after his body and so he modified the technology so that his body would go into a coma when his mind transfere to the Ori galaxy, so he did not have to worry about the person who he exchange with causing trouble why he was gone and the body would only awaken once he finished his research and return to his body.

We do know that Merlin mostly worked alone after all, we did not even get confirmation about the knights and the round table.
The version we see in Atlantis and SGU are the technology in it unmodified pure form design to provide two way communications and mind transfere.

Like it also did when we first encounter the stones, O'neil and that other bloke sharing each other memories.

I think it safe to presume that Merlin made modifications to the stones and base stations to make his visits to the Ori galaxy safer.

D Toccs
March 24th, 2011, 07:57 AM
I had never thought about it like that. That makes perfect sense, and it's just plain awesome.

Aurora24
March 24th, 2011, 01:22 PM
I agree that the SG-1 stones must have been specially modified since both Jack and Joe were able to see a great deal of each others lives while they had the stones, but I wonder if having some residual memories from the other person that you connect with was a common feature of the stones that the SGU stones were toned down. We've seen instances of a person retaining some memories from the person they swapped with, the most detailed so far being Rush remembering Telford's meetings with the LA. That implies that even though the stones are different from the SG-1 stones that the problem of some residual memories still exists.

If there is that deep of a link between minds at some level while the stones are being used than it would make sense that if one person abruptly died the person on the other end of the stones would experience something. I agree with the discussions I've read here about the feedback killing the other person as well. If two minds are that closely linked than having one suddenly get severed would have a traumatic effect on the person on the other end.

garhkal
March 24th, 2011, 02:01 PM
Well the Daniel and Vala incident is kinda different from all the other times the stones have been used. When Vala and Daniel swapped with Herod and Sallis, for some reason Herod and Sallis did not swap with them.
So I deliberately chose not to use that example because the Rush/Telford was a normal mind swap and proved the point without having to wonder about whether the situation was different.

Well, I think the writers messed up the comm stones. Like, with daniel and vala, they swapped because stones were tagged with peoples identity. Which also, how do the stones know who to switch with? I'm sure there are other stones in the galaxy that people have mistakenly touched. Why not switch with them.

I think with the Vala/Daniel incident, because no one had the stones in their end, on the pedestal device, OURs took priority.. ergo vala/daniel took over the others who had been imprinted on the stones in their galaxy.. (herrod/salis). BUT cause we were priority, neither of them came here.


The distance from where Destiny is to the MW is almost certainly longer then from MW to the Ori galaxy.

BUT both sites us a 'backwards engineered pedestal device.


Yeah, but the distance between Keller and the criminal was much smaller. In a similar manner Young was able to swap with a Blueberry Alien despite the fact that they posessed no second terminal.

And the same thing with Jack and the barber..


So just to make sure I've got this straight. you're theory is that unless the distance involved is relatively small, then a second terminal is required in order for the "receiving" mind to swap as well?

Yup.. Same galaxy, no pedestal required. More than 1 galaxy distant, pedistal on both ends required. OTHERWISE the transfer is determined by which side has a pedestal device..


Here a better in universe answer.

The stones and base station SG1 use were a merlin special one off.
Merlin redesign the system he had to be one way, so that he could visit and explore the Ori Galaxy but why he was there he did not have anyone to look after his body and so he modified the technology so that his body would go into a coma when his mind transfere to the Ori galaxy, so he did not have to worry about the person who he exchange with causing trouble why he was gone and the body would only awaken once he finished his research and return to his body.

We do know that Merlin mostly worked alone after all, we did not even get confirmation about the knights and the round table.
The version we see in Atlantis and SGU are the technology in it unmodified pure form design to provide two way communications and mind transfere.

Like it also did when we first encounter the stones, O'neil and that other bloke sharing each other memories.

I think it safe to presume that Merlin made modifications to the stones and base stations to make his visits to the Ori galaxy safer.

That very well might be the answer..

D Toccs
March 24th, 2011, 06:45 PM
Here a better in universe answer.

The stones and base station SG1 use were a merlin special one off.
Merlin redesign the system he had to be one way, so that he could visit and explore the Ori Galaxy but why he was there he did not have anyone to look after his body and so he modified the technology so that his body would go into a coma when his mind transfere to the Ori galaxy, so he did not have to worry about the person who he exchange with causing trouble why he was gone and the body would only awaken once he finished his research and return to his body.

We do know that Merlin mostly worked alone after all, we did not even get confirmation about the knights and the round table.
The version we see in Atlantis and SGU are the technology in it unmodified pure form design to provide two way communications and mind transfere.

Like it also did when we first encounter the stones, O'neil and that other bloke sharing each other memories.

I think it safe to presume that Merlin made modifications to the stones and base stations to make his visits to the Ori galaxy safer.

I still really like this explanation and it works for the stone use in Avalon and Origin. But it doesn't explain why Vala swapped into Daniel's body in Crusade but Daniel didn't swap into her body.

Rylor
March 25th, 2011, 02:29 PM
So just to make sure I've got this straight. you're theory is that unless the distance involved is relatively small, then a second terminal is required in order for the "receiving" mind to swap as well?

If that is what you are saying then I can't find any fault in your logic. I'm not sure that I agree with it 100%, but it certainly fits with what we have seen so far.

Yeah, exactly. I am not sure if my theory is correct, it just fits the facts we know so far.

SoulReaver
March 25th, 2011, 03:11 PM
btw where's it said that the ori galaxy is closer to the MW than the Destiny is ? :tealcanime49: iirc that galaxy is also supposed to be at the other end of the universe (which is probably why the ori didn't even know of the MW, despite their ascended "omniscience")

D Toccs
March 25th, 2011, 03:29 PM
btw where's it said that the ori galaxy is closer to the MW than the Destiny is ? :tealcanime49: iirc that galaxy is also supposed to be at the other end of the universe (which is probably why the ori didn't even know of the MW, despite their ascended "omniscience")

It's never explicitly said that the Ori galaxy is closer MW than where Destiny is. I just figured that since we know for certain that Destiny has passed through at least 40 galaxies in the millions of years it's been around, and iirc the Alterans only took hundreds of thousands of years to get to the MW from their galaxy.
I always just figured that while the Ori galaxy is not in the local group like MW, Pegasus or Ida, it must still be relatively close compared to how far away Destiny is.

SoulReaver
March 25th, 2011, 05:36 PM
It's never explicitly said that the Ori galaxy is closer MW than where Destiny is. I just figured that since we know for certain that Destiny has passed through at least 40 galaxies in the millions of years it's been around, and iirc the Alterans only took hundreds of thousands of years to get to the MW from their galaxy.
I always just figured that while the Ori galaxy is not in the local group like MW, Pegasus or Ida, it must still be relatively close compared to how far away Destiny is.how fast are the Destiny's warp drives compared to recent alteran/atlantean ships ?

D Toccs
March 26th, 2011, 03:02 AM
how fast are the Destiny's warp drives compared to recent alteran/atlantean ships ?

There's no real way to accurately compare them.
But the only Alteran ship we know of that is older than Destiny and the Seed Ships is the ship they used to leave their galaxy in AoT. If they didn't invent hyperdrive until much later, then it is not unreasonable to conclude that the ship from AoT must have used a similar FTL engine to Destiny and the Seed Ships which is why I was comparing the travel times.

Ultimately though it's all just speculation, the writers have never really cared to much for consistency within one show let alone across two shows. It does raise the interesting question though of why the Alterans would need to send Destiny at all if they had already traveled from the other side of the universe.

garhkal
March 26th, 2011, 03:32 PM
Which makes me wonder WHEN they made the switch from FTL drives to hyper drives.

Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble
March 27th, 2011, 05:40 AM
Which makes me wonder WHEN they made the switch from FTL drives to hyper drives.

50,905,994 BC :p.

garhkal
March 28th, 2011, 12:59 PM
Before carter?