Bad Habits (Warning: Unintelligible Rant Inside)

[Major_Griff]

As much as I am loving SGU, and as much as a respect and admire the writers for having the guts to change the formula, I'm starting to notice the writers falling into some of the bad habits they had gotten into in the later years of SG-1 and SGA. For instance the scene in last weeks episode the scene with Rush trying to jam the drone's signal by hitting a few buttons on his console while Young yelled at him to do it faster was painfully reminiscent of almost every episode of SGA when that happened. That in it self is fine it just got old when it happened in every episode.

Anyway, the reason I have made this thread is because as much as I enjoyed "Twin Destinies" I can't help but feel that the entire episode was written merely as a way of returning Telford to Earth, and thus returning the show to the "status quo" which we all know SG-1 and SGA were notorious for. One of the great things about SGU is that thus far they haven't been afraid of making lasting changes as the story unfolds, but between killing almost every major LA character and now returning Telford to Earth, they have returned to the "status quo". It may have taken half a season longer than it would have on SG-1 or SGA, but it still happened which I find disappointing.

Maybe one of the reasons I have these feelings is that I have recently started watching Deadwood (I'm currently midway through the 3rd season). I can't help but think that Deadwood is one of the shows that SGU strived to emulate (I especially note a similarity in Bullock and Swearengen's relationship to that of Young and Rush). Deadwood thus far has constantly brought in new characters and killed off existing ones as the story has unfolded (and it has never felt like new characters were replacing old ones which is hard to do), and I wish SGU would have been that bold. It almost feels like they went half way in that regard.

Another bad habit I have seen emerge in "Twin Destinies" is the SG writers' hobby of introducing wildly conflicting theories of time travel. Not only is the time travel in this episode inconsistent with the time travel in "Time" but also inconsistent with any other time travel episode in the SG franchise (which is an impressive feet considering how many other theories have been introduced). Also The idea of both Rush and Telford still existing in the alternate timeline is a hard pill to swallow since it makes no sense whatsoever, even allowing for the normal amount of confusion that arrises from time travel stories.

Anyway, sorry for the rant. I haven't been on these boards in a while, but I just needed to get that off my chest cause it's been bothering me since Monday.

[Homer 120]

As much as I am loving SGU, and as much as a respect and admire the writers for having the guts to change the formula, I'm starting to notice the writers falling into some of the bad habits they had gotten into in the later years of SG-1 and SGA. For instance the scene in last weeks episode the scene with Rush trying to jam the drone's signal by hitting a few buttons on his console while Young yelled at him to do it faster was painfully reminiscent of almost every episode of SGA when that happened. That in it self is fine it just got old when it happened in every episode.

Anyway, the reason I have made this thread is because as much as I enjoyed "Twin Destinies" I can't help but feel that the entire episode was written merely as a way of returning Telford to Earth, and thus returning the show to the "status quo" which we all know SG-1 and SGA were notorious for. One of the great things about SGU is that thus far they haven't been afraid of making lasting changes as the story unfolds, but between killing almost every major LA character and now returning Telford to Earth, they have returned to the "status quo". It may have taken half a season longer than it would have on SG-1 or SGA, but it still happened which I find disappointing.

Maybe one of the reasons I have these feelings is that I have recently started watching Deadwood (I'm currently midway through the 3rd season). I can't help but think that Deadwood is one of the shows that SGU strived to emulate (I especially note a similarity in Bullock and Swearengen's relationship to that of Young and Rush). Deadwood thus far has constantly brought in new characters and killed off existing ones as the story has unfolded (and it has never felt like new characters were replacing old ones which is hard to do), and I wish SGU would have been that bold. It almost feels like they went half way in that regard.

Another bad habit I have seen emerge in "Twin Destinies" is the SG writers' hobby of introducing wildly conflicting theories of time travel. Not only is the time travel in this episode inconsistent with the time travel in "Time" but also inconsistent with any other time travel episode in the SG franchise (which is an impressive feet considering how many other theories have been introduced). Also The idea of both Rush and Telford still existing in the alternate timeline is a hard pill to swallow since it makes no sense whatsoever, even allowing for the normal amount of confusion that arrises from time travel stories.

Anyway, sorry for the rant. I haven't been on these boards in a while, but I just needed to get that off my chest cause it's been bothering me since Monday.

At lest your rant is understandable unlike Charlie ''Winning'' Sheen!

Anyways I have slightly noticed that TPTB are bringing back some ''Classic SG'' but done in a way that fits with the SGU formula and not giving in to fan demands. I too have a lot of respect for the crew for taking SG in a new direction.

[SBN]

I do agree that the episode did seem as a way to get Telford off the ship, while not exactly killing the character in case they can have him guest star in the future (like next week's episode). But it did fill the storyline well that he would have been the first one to go through the gate, I just did not care for the scene with 2nd Telford getting electrocuted. That did seem too convenient. I would have rather had him stay behind to grab those weapon devices and get stuck on the dying ship. That would have been a better ending. Since he was already there with 2nd Rush, then why not have them two argue, waste time, and then oops too much time past and now they can't get back to the gate in time. Rush runs off to the chair, and the final scene is Telford standing in the gateroom alone then cut to the Destiny burning up.

As for the time travel, well really what is "canon"? I do not see discrepancies or errors as this is just so theoretical (to the point of impossibility) that writers do have a lot of room to maneuver a storyline. That time travel here was different than another time in the franchise? No problem with that at all for me. And note also the variables changed as they were inside a star, dialing the 9nth chevron. So you do have creative room there to change how time travel works in this show.

[Robot Nightmare]

As much as I am loving SGU, and as much as a respect and admire the writers for having the guts to change the formula, I'm starting to notice the writers falling into some of the bad habits they had gotten into in the later years of SG-1 and SGA. For instance the scene in last weeks episode the scene with Rush trying to jam the drone's signal by hitting a few buttons on his console while Young yelled at him to do it faster was painfully reminiscent of almost every episode of SGA when that happened. That in it self is fine it just got old when it happened in every episode.

Anyway, the reason I have made this thread is because as much as I enjoyed "Twin Destinies" I can't help but feel that the entire episode was written merely as a way of returning Telford to Earth, and thus returning the show to the "status quo" which we all know SG-1 and SGA were notorious for. One of the great things about SGU is that thus far they haven't been afraid of making lasting changes as the story unfolds, but between killing almost every major LA character and now returning Telford to Earth, they have returned to the "status quo". It may have taken half a season longer than it would have on SG-1 or SGA, but it still happened which I find disappointing.

Maybe one of the reasons I have these feelings is that I have recently started watching Deadwood (I'm currently midway through the 3rd season). I can't help but think that Deadwood is one of the shows that SGU strived to emulate (I especially note a similarity in Bullock and Swearengen's relationship to that of Young and Rush). Deadwood thus far has constantly brought in new characters and killed off existing ones as the story has unfolded (and it has never felt like new characters were replacing old ones which is hard to do), and I wish SGU would have been that bold. It almost feels like they went half way in that regard.

Another bad habit I have seen emerge in "Twin Destinies" is the SG writers' hobby of introducing wildly conflicting theories of time travel. Not only is the time travel in this episode inconsistent with the time travel in "Time" but also inconsistent with any other time travel episode in the SG franchise (which is an impressive feet considering how many other theories have been introduced). Also The idea of both Rush and Telford still existing in the alternate timeline is a hard pill to swallow since it makes no sense whatsoever, even allowing for the normal amount of confusion that arrises from time travel stories.

Anyway, sorry for the rant. I haven't been on these boards in a while, but I just needed to get that off my chest cause it's been bothering me since Monday.

I agree 100%. In the scene you mentioned with Rush and the drones I could almost hear Shepard yelling, "Dammit, McKay!" The writers really need to up the ante with the story. SGU is one of my favorite shows but, Twin Destinies felt way to much like old SG and Star Trek...I REALLY hate to compare SGU to BSG (they both have their faults) but I can't watch this episode with out hearing Ron Moore's voice in my head "No ray-guns, three-eyed monsters, or time travel..."

[The Destiny]

Well.. taking half a season to get to the status quo is better than within 1-2 episodes

What I find more important is that while the situation is the same in terms of the ship and material ( well.. apart from all the supplies and spare parts ) we have seen a significant change in the relationships of the people on board. We have now seen that people are actually starting to care more about the mission in that Young said he'd stay and the 10 volunteers that wanted to stay. While I guess Alternate Rush and double Telford were in a way 'reset', I think they cloaked it a bit better than they usually did in SGA, with Telford dying I really wasn't thinking that and it came with some great dialogue and conflict.

As for the drone jamming.. It did not feel like SGA's formula:
Mckay: "This is complicated, I need more time!"
Sheppard: "Damnit Mckay"
Mckay: "Okay, we're good to go"
It took them a moment to figure out to jam the drone signal. It was a bit too fast to be perfectly 100% realistic, but stalled long enough to be believable and it would only last for a few seconds anyway.
The second time they had a few hours, acces to the drone programming, and a solution that is very simple but really makes sense. Tell the drones that Destiny is a 'friendly', by using the same ID-tag that they used for Destiny when they saw it as 'enemy' but giving it a friendly status and turn it on other ships and done. More than believable to me, certainly not as simple and if they couldn't jump away then destiny would've been destroyed anyway.

I can understand you though. I think that with SGU we have all looked a bit too deep at the plot and story writing because with the hate/love issue of the SG community we are subconciously focussing a lot on those aspects to either defend it or to find a reason to hate it. "See, look how simple the story is", "see, look how complex the story is"

Timetravel has been inconsistent for ages and I agree they could've done a better job at this one because "not the wormhole but the entire Destiny went back in time"-thing did feel a bit like they were just doing it to get Rush back in time as well, like Telford and the others. When I first read a spoiler of there being 2 Rush's after a timetravel incident I had this image in my head of Rush #2 running out of the gate, to find his alter-ego working in the gateroom and awkwardness would follow. I think they could've done it better if they had let Rush dial somewhere to escape the exploding ship and let the gate loop back to itself 12 hours earlier, this being caused by a different solar flare ( there are many solar flares near a star ) O well.. can't have everything..

But anyway, remember SGA season 1 episode 15 "before I sleep"? Dr. Weir went back in time, changed stuff that would alter the future, and then stayed in statis 10.000 years and lived to meet her younger self. This time it was the same. Telford and Rush went back in time, but the ones in that time still stayed there

[s09119]

There's nothing really inconsistent about the time travel we saw, and Telford and Rush both being there is perfectly plausible when you remember that the whole ship jump back the instant the connection was made to Earth. They were both already back in time before David was even through the wormhole.

[Major_Griff]

There's nothing really inconsistent about the time travel we saw, and Telford and Rush both being there is perfectly plausible when you remember that the whole ship jump back the instant the connection was made to Earth. They were both already back in time before David was even through the wormhole.

Oh I was under the impression that the time jump came after they had gone through the gate. Okay, well that answers that. BIS would be considered precedent for that, I guess. It still conflicts with some of the other time travel stories they've told, but at this point there's nothing they could do about it.

[Nth Chevron]

You cant really draw that much of a parallel with the other time travel stories as none of them had a big ship in a star dialling one of only two 9th chevron addresses, whilst soaking up the suns power and being 60 million odd years old

The basics hadnt really changed, they just added a new twist, like when we first found out about the 8 symbol addresses - with a bit more complicatedness thrown in as a side order.

In essence i agree, i wasnt that keen on TD because of the fact it all felt forced to the points that the episode was written to fix, ships spare parts, another shuttle returned, Telford off Destiny and knocking Eli down a slight peg, obviously to make his next genius moment seem even more geniuser than usual.

N.C

[Major_Griff]

Well.. taking half a season to get to the status quo is better than within 1-2 episodes

Yeah it is, but like I said it seems really halfway, you know. I understand that they didn't want to have two colonels on the ship (though I argue that Telford's presence could have lead to an interesting story line which would see Wray presented with another power grab opportunity. One which maybe some of the military might have backed if Telford was behind her), and they probably didn't want to pay LDP's salary to be a regular, but I almost feel like it would have been better just to kill him off completely. I love the character, but in real life things just don't go back to "normal" after a while and sending him back to Earth while his duplicate is conveniently killed off really doesn't sit well with me. Maybe if they had waited a couple of episodes to kill of Telford 1 then it would feel so cheap to me, but either way I just hate the return to "status quo".

Great episode overall though, just these few things bothered me.

[The Destiny]

What I really admire about this show is the character development. In a little over 1 and a half season we've seen the characters change immensely.

[Egle01]

Just like they needed the crew to get stuck on Destiny in "Air" pt 1, and show the ship re-charge inside a star in "Light", introduce aliens and have pew pews in "Space", have Rush taken by the Lucian Alliance in "Subversion" in order to get the baddies on Destiny in "Incursion" pt 1.

Events happen like this all the time. Don't understand what's the futz about getting spare parts and new shuttle in "Twin Destinies".

[Major_Griff]

Just like they needed the crew to get stuck on Destiny in "Air" pt 1, and show the ship re-charge inside a star in "Light", introduce aliens and have pew pews in "Space", have Rush taken by the Lucian Alliance in "Subversion" in order to get the baddies on Destiny in "Incursion" pt 1.

Events happen like this all the time. Don't understand what's the futz about getting spare parts and new shuttle in "Twin Destinies".

Those things don't bother me because they advance the story. I'm bothered by the returning of Telford to Earth because it was just an elongated way of returning everything to the way it was.

[The Destiny]

Telford being in the same galaxy was the status quo since Incursion part 1, which is nearly 3/4 season. So actually they went to a previous status quo where Telford was on Earth, it just depends which one you view as the "true" status quo. At the moment Telford has been roughly as long on Earth as he has been on the Destiny/seedship; 3/4 of a season. In a way you could see it as an advancement/change in the storyline.

They will deal with this matter in the next episode, so we might see this have some sort of fallout and resulting change for the story.