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GateWorld
March 13th, 2011, 02:35 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/s2/217.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/graphics/217.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">UNIVERSE SEASON TWO</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/s2/217.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">COMMON DESCENT</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 217</FONT>
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SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

General Jumper One
April 18th, 2011, 06:55 PM
This episode had a classic feel, total awesome, can't wait for next weeks

Replicator Todd
April 18th, 2011, 06:56 PM
Loved seeing the Drones again. The city at the ending was just awesomely done.

s09119
April 18th, 2011, 06:57 PM
Four stars, 10/10, whatever you wanna call it. Excellent episode from start to finish.

themeatcleaver
April 18th, 2011, 06:57 PM
i just want to be the first to say it in the general discussion...


OH MY FRAKKING GOD!

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
April 18th, 2011, 06:57 PM
with the way this episode was ending i was hoping forward to a To be Continued... Caption to appear. but yes, this episode is definitely had a classical stargate feel to it.

themeatcleaver
April 18th, 2011, 06:59 PM
with the way this episode was ending i was hoping forward to a To be Continued... Caption to appear. but yes, this episode is definitely had a classical stargate feel to it.

for real! i think they even stole some music from SG1 for one of the first village scenes

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
April 18th, 2011, 07:00 PM
really enjoyed seeing how the other destiny crew lived and it made me have this feeling of how the pilgrams first came over here to the U.S

FoX-1028
April 18th, 2011, 07:00 PM
OMFG. Perfect episode no more words :D
Need to see this again! rewatching in a few minutes

morbosfist
April 18th, 2011, 07:01 PM
Can't wait for the repeat to see the first half, because the second alone was awesome. The city was amazing, the drones were relentless as always. I particularly loved how they blew an entire section out of the gate. That was a nice touch. You never saw that in the other series.

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
April 18th, 2011, 07:01 PM
you see if they started doing more episodes like this in the opening days of universe, it probably would've been successful.

themeatcleaver
April 18th, 2011, 07:02 PM
OMFG. Perfect episode no more words :D

i have one word for you....:indeed:!

General Jumper One
April 18th, 2011, 07:04 PM
Can't wait for the repeat to see the first half, because the second alone was awesome. The city was amazing, the drones were relentless as always. I particularly loved how they blew an entire section out of the gate. That was a nice touch. You never saw that in the other series.

when they eventually sell that prop (if it wasn't just cgi) I want to buy it!

themeatcleaver
April 18th, 2011, 07:04 PM
Can't wait for the repeat to see the first half, because the second alone was awesome. The city was amazing, the drones were relentless as always. I particularly loved how they blew an entire section out of the gate. That was a nice touch. You never saw that in the other series.

i was just saying that to my dad when he walked in! 17 seasons and they NEVER did that before!

SG-17
April 18th, 2011, 07:05 PM
The city was amazing, I just wish that we would have found it populated on the verge of disaster, kind of like SGA's Inferno.

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
April 18th, 2011, 07:06 PM
okay, i know it's just me but does anyone think Young is starting to become the "hammond" of the destiny and scott being the "O'Neill or Mitchell" leader of those off-world teams?

jelgate
April 18th, 2011, 07:08 PM
okay, i know it's just me but does anyone think Young is starting to become the "hammond" of the destiny and scott being the "O'Neil or Mitchell" leader of those off-world teams?

I think an Atlantis comparassion is more accurate with Young being analogous to Carter

General Jumper One
April 18th, 2011, 07:08 PM
okay, i know it's just me but does anyone think Young is starting to become the "hammond" of the destiny and scott being the "O'Neill or Mitchell" leader of those off-world teams?

yeah kinda and I LOVE it

themeatcleaver
April 18th, 2011, 07:08 PM
okay, i know it's just me but does anyone think Young is starting to become the "hammond" of the destiny and scott being the "O'Neill or Mitchell" leader of those off-world teams?

apologies if this sounds snarky but....wasn't that the whole idea from the beginning? maybe i'm biased, i've always liked Young.

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
April 18th, 2011, 07:10 PM
okay so after watching it again there is definitely some musical score from SG-1.

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
April 18th, 2011, 07:10 PM
so whose descendants do you guys think Jason and Ellie are? i'm thinking Scott and Chloe.

General Jumper One
April 18th, 2011, 07:10 PM
I'm sorry all but I just have to say that I love SGU more than SG1 or SGA

themeatcleaver
April 18th, 2011, 07:10 PM
okay so after watching it again there is definitely some musical score from SG-1.

lol its been over for 15 minutes? how'd you rewatch it? :)

themeatcleaver
April 18th, 2011, 07:11 PM
I'm sorry all but I just have to say that I love SGU more than SG1 or SGA

a giant THIS!!!!!!

/wish i could green you for it haha

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
April 18th, 2011, 07:11 PM
apologies if this sounds snarky but....wasn't that the whole idea from the beginning? maybe i'm biased, i've always liked Young.

when the characters descriptions first came out they said young was "the jack o'neill of 10 years ago".

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
April 18th, 2011, 07:11 PM
lol its been over for 15 minutes? how'd you rewatch it? :)

TiVo'd it.

AscendedTauri
April 18th, 2011, 07:12 PM
THAT EPISODE WAS INCREDIBLE!!!!

HOLY FRAKKING FUTURA AMAZING!!!!

And yet THIS is coming to an END?? WTF people!!?

themeatcleaver
April 18th, 2011, 07:13 PM
pick your scene i'm assuming?

/doesn't have a tivo yet
//does have one helluva media center though
///like a good little boy

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
April 18th, 2011, 07:13 PM
Eli is starting to become the Daniel Jackson of the group when they were in the village and he wanted to see the testament.

themeatcleaver
April 18th, 2011, 07:15 PM
Eli is starting to become the Daniel Jackson of the group when they were in the village and he wanted to see the testament.

totally. i've gotta say, i wish that would show up on a dvd set or something because hell, I wanna see it! :)

themeatcleaver
April 18th, 2011, 07:16 PM
so who descedants do you guys think Jason and Ellie are? i'm thinking Scott and Chloe.

well, ultimately i think the writers were going for exactly that, Scott and Chloe. After 2000 years or so though(that was the stat they gave right?), i'd have to imagine that they're total mutts by now! :)

FoX-1028
April 18th, 2011, 07:19 PM
I'm sorry all but I just have to say that I love SGU more than SG1 or SGA

Yea SGU = SG-1 for me...


Rewatching in my PS3 now ^^

General Jumper One
April 18th, 2011, 07:20 PM
Yea SGU = SG-1 for me...


Rewatching in my PS3 now ^^

I have to wait to get it on iTunes

themeatcleaver
April 18th, 2011, 07:21 PM
I have to wait to get it on iTunes

what time do new episodes show up on itunes anyways?

VampyreWraith
April 18th, 2011, 07:22 PM
I have to wait to get it on iTunes

Me too.

General Jumper One
April 18th, 2011, 07:22 PM
what time do new episodes show up on itunes anyways?

around 2 or 3 am (not 100% positive)

VampyreWraith
April 18th, 2011, 07:23 PM
what time do new episodes show up on itunes anyways?

Sometimes they're up as early as 2 or 3 am

VampyreWraith
April 18th, 2011, 07:24 PM
around 2 or 3 am (not 100% positive)

lol, thats what i thought too :D

themeatcleaver
April 18th, 2011, 07:24 PM
Sometimes they're up as early as 2 or 3 am

in other words, after the torrents... nice! lol

/itunes HD is better than any 720 torrent for some reason though :)

AtlantisRules!!!
April 18th, 2011, 07:26 PM
Not happy that it was Young as TJ's hubby and not Varro. I thought we were past that :P Other than that it was an awesome ep :D

General Jumper One
April 18th, 2011, 07:26 PM
I don't want to hear anyone TORRENT SGU, this shows is worth the money!

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
April 18th, 2011, 07:27 PM
Not happy that it was Young as TJ's hubby and not Varro. I thought we were past that :P Other than that it was an awesome ep :D

who said they were married?

Shylodog
April 18th, 2011, 07:29 PM
Eli is starting to become the Daniel Jackson of the group when they were in the village and he wanted to see the testament.

I would also say he was a bit of a McKay with his "Yes, yes! I've done the math!" bit. I've got to ask though with 2000 years of societal evolution form today's technological know-how, why oh why don't the decendents have ships?

Airlock
April 18th, 2011, 07:29 PM
Man, I've been waiting for SGU to finally deliver something like this. Haven't you all? It was like a ceremonial return to form. So classic -- in a SGU way. It embraced its roots and din't hold back. As far as I'm concerned this episode set an entirely new bar for SGU and now I'm DYING to know what season 3 would be like and where it would go. AGH!!!!

morrismike
April 18th, 2011, 07:30 PM
What do you want to bet the rush worshippers unleashed those drones on the galaxy?

FoX-1028
April 18th, 2011, 07:31 PM
I don't want to hear anyone TORRENT SGU, this shows is worth the money!
Nah torrents sux...

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
April 18th, 2011, 07:31 PM
What do you want to bet the rush worshippers unleashed those drones on the galaxy?

i'll take those odds.

themeatcleaver
April 18th, 2011, 07:32 PM
What do you want to bet the rush worshippers unleashed those drones on the galaxy?

that thought hadn't even occurred to me until now. that would be pure EPIC topped with awesome sauce!

morrismike
April 18th, 2011, 07:32 PM
I would also say he was a bit of a McKay with his "Yes, yes! I've done the math!" bit. I've got to ask though with 2000 years of societal evolution form today's technological know-how, why oh why don't the decendents have ships?
and why aren't they all a common race?

Shylodog
April 18th, 2011, 07:32 PM
Not happy that it was Young as TJ's hubby and not Varro. I thought we were past that :P Other than that it was an awesome ep :D

The timeline was skewed somewhat. Varro didn't help save TJ from the Predator. Also, the LA folks (the ones present in "Hunt" were alive to help procreate. Also, the little lass decendant was CUTE.

Just my 2 cents.

Airlock
April 18th, 2011, 07:33 PM
Not happy that it was Young as TJ's hubby and not Varro. I thought we were past that :P Other than that it was an awesome ep :D

The way it came of in the episode, I'm not sure even TJ was happy that it was Young. I think she's over him and she was disappointed. There were a few telling gestures and gazes that hinted at that. I'm interested to see if we learn more about that next ep or by the end of the season.

s09119
April 18th, 2011, 07:34 PM
What do you want to bet the rush worshippers unleashed those drones on the galaxy?

Wouldn't the colonists have recognized them, then?

themeatcleaver
April 18th, 2011, 07:34 PM
i agree with what shylo said, the timeline with the hunt hadn't happened yet and she and varro never happened. it couldn't have played out very much differently!

themeatcleaver
April 18th, 2011, 07:35 PM
Wouldn't the colonists have recognized them, then?

fair point. no argument actually.

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
April 18th, 2011, 07:37 PM
those colonists really were stranded. i mean they didn't even have the communication stones to let earth know.

Replicator Todd
April 18th, 2011, 07:37 PM
Not happy that it was Young as TJ's hubby and not Varro. I thought we were past that :P Other than that it was an awesome ep :D

That thought occurred to me too. :p

General Jumper One
April 18th, 2011, 07:40 PM
those colonists really were stranded. i mean they didn't even have the communication stones to let earth know.

communications stones wouldn't have helped much, since they were sent very far back in time and not to mention they had no way to tell what year it was on Earth

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
April 18th, 2011, 07:41 PM
communications stones wouldn't have helped much, since they were sent very far back in time and not to mention they had no way to tell what year it was on Earth

yeah. i gotta remember that they were sent 2,000 years into the past.

themeatcleaver
April 18th, 2011, 07:41 PM
communications stones wouldn't have helped much, since they were sent very far back in time and not to mention they had no way to tell what year it was on Earth

more interestingly... who would they have connected to, being 2000 years in the past? would those stones have been linked to anyone or would they still have been in the vault of Avalon?

Graybrew1
April 18th, 2011, 07:43 PM
:valaanime06: It's a Font.

themeatcleaver
April 18th, 2011, 07:55 PM
I don't want to hear anyone TORRENT SGU, this shows is worth the money!

for the record i purchase the hd itunes versions and will DEFINITELY grab the full season when its out :)

TheRandomOne
April 18th, 2011, 07:58 PM
I am pretty sure that since Crew #2 had to get off of Destiny then TJ & Varro probably would have never grown to like each other as they do now

VampyreWraith
April 18th, 2011, 08:03 PM
for the record i purchase the hd itunes versions and will DEFINITELY grab the full season when its out :)

Same here. I like the way the hd versions look on iTunes, and hopefully the full season comes out on blu ray. I prefer bd to dvd. I don't care about owning the episode twice, the dvds/bds usually have extras on them that make it worth it. :)

Airlock
April 18th, 2011, 08:10 PM
i got this feeling that Rush knew more about what was going on than he led on.

themeatcleaver
April 18th, 2011, 08:38 PM
i got this feeling that Rush knew more about what was going on than he led on.

i kinda did too. i'm interested to find out what his deal is THIS time. i almost had the feeling he was alt-rush, what with the way he was acting.

xBladeDragonx
April 18th, 2011, 08:47 PM
Something doesn't sit well with me... This is the third (as far as we know) generation of the Stargate with the Milky Way & Asgard galaxy being the first generation and Pegasus as the second...

We've seen multiple times of the gate surviving massive explosions, being shot at... having an Alkesh crash into it... and so on... But a single drone can destroy a Naquadah gate just by 1 shot?!

Airlock
April 18th, 2011, 09:12 PM
i kinda did too. i'm interested to find out what his deal is THIS time. i almost had the feeling he was alt-rush, what with the way he was acting.

Rush is a moody b**ch sometimes. I was really confused by his actions on the bridge when Wray tried to introduce him. It's like he was hardcore dodging. Even when Eli first proposed the theory that the other Destiny crew was sent back in time, there was this closeup shot of Rush with a look on his face as if the others were getting closer to a truth he was hoping they'd never find out. And it just seems odd that all this fascinating stuff is happening and Rush carries on not only uninterested, but seemingly anti. Strange to say the least. I'd like to think we'll get more on this next episode.

BadOnion
April 18th, 2011, 09:13 PM
That was a great episode. Only thing that didn't ring true was that the language they spoke hadn't evolved into something a little different from english in 2000 years.

Pharaoh Atem
April 18th, 2011, 09:14 PM
i got this feeling that Rush knew more about what was going on than he led on.

time for the annually rush VS young fight

Airlock
April 18th, 2011, 09:25 PM
time for the annually rush VS young fight

Haha! Tis the season. We're due for a 3rd round of headbutting and it's Young's turn. Rush dealt the last one in Greater Good.

senilegreen
April 18th, 2011, 09:30 PM
Sigh....

Ok, I can see why some of you like this episode.

For those who like space battles - you got drones buzzing and shooting.

For those who lamented the lack of use of the gates - you got gates.

But, overall as a story and as fiction, IMO it lacked the necessary cohesion and believability. And I'm not talking about the time travel (as much as a cop-out that is for story writers.)

Let me ask you all a question: how many of you could build a house from scratch, without tools? Or, how many of you could even make a barrel (complete with metal bands), from scratch?

And so on.

Yes, the crew was well educated, but except for military survival training most of them wouldn't have the skills (forget the theoretical knowledge about physics and math - much of it wouldn't be of much use) to build anything more than the most primitive of medieval villages - there just wouldn't be enough laborers.

Indeed, that was the whole lesson from the Faith planet. Those people died because they couldn't even survive a single year because of simple seasonal changes, on a planet designed (apparently) to be habitable.

Again, there just aren't enough bodies on Destiny to found a civilization much beyond a stone age village.

And then of course there is the whole static language problem.

Oh, and the idea that a single source of Chinese genetic material (Ray) could be enough so people 2000 years later (about 60 to 70 generations) would have distinct "racial" differences so some could clearly look Chinese and others not... no, sorry, it doesn't work that way.

Sigh...

m626
April 18th, 2011, 09:31 PM
i got this feeling that Rush knew more about what was going on than he led on. Rush has mixed feelings about all of this. He's probably relieved in his own crazy way that his alternate self didn't kill the crew when the wormhole disengaged and is upset to know a portion of the crew's descendants think of him as a demon.

k1037
April 18th, 2011, 09:34 PM
That was a great episode. Only thing that didn't ring true was that the language they spoke hadn't evolved into something a little different from english in 2000 years.

Yeah, that's sort of classic SG, though. The fact that Matt was actually surprised that they knew english was unusual for Stargate.

General Jumper One
April 18th, 2011, 09:35 PM
Sigh....

Ok, I can see why some of you like this episode.

For those who like space battles - you got drones buzzing and shooting.

For those who lamented the lack of use of the gates - you got gates.

But, overall as a story and as fiction, IMO it lacked the necessary cohesion and believability. And I'm not talking about the time travel (as much as a cop-out that is for story writers.)

Let me ask you all a question: how many of you could build a house from scratch, without tools? Or, how many of you could even make a barrel (complete with metal bands), from scratch?

And so on.

Yes, the crew was well educated, but except for military survival training most of them wouldn't have the skills (forget the theoretical knowledge about physics and math - much of it wouldn't be of much use) to build anything more than the most primitive of medieval villages - there just wouldn't be enough laborers.

Indeed, that was the whole lesson from the Faith planet. Those people died because they couldn't even survive a single year because of simple seasonal changes, on a planet designed (apparently) to be habitable.

Again, there just aren't enough bodies on Destiny to found a civilization much beyond a stone age village.

hmm, 2000 years is a long time

AscendedTauri
April 18th, 2011, 09:41 PM
hmm, 2000 years is a long time

HAHAHA, exactly!!

I think people could figure out how to make a house in 10 years when FORCED to do it. I think people would get past sticks and stones in 2000 years as well.

k1037
April 18th, 2011, 09:48 PM
Sigh....

Ok, I can see why some of you like this episode.

For those who like space battles - you got drones buzzing and shooting.

For those who lamented the lack of use of the gates - you got gates.

But, overall as a story and as fiction, IMO it lacked the necessary cohesion and believability. And I'm not talking about the time travel (as much as a cop-out that is for story writers.)

Let me ask you all a question: how many of you could build a house from scratch, without tools? Or, how many of you could even make a barrel (complete with metal bands), from scratch?

And so on.

Yes, the crew was well educated, but except for military survival training most of them wouldn't have the skills (forget the theoretical knowledge about physics and math - much of it wouldn't be of much use) to build anything more than the most primitive of medieval villages - there just wouldn't be enough laborers.

Indeed, that was the whole lesson from the Faith planet. Those people died because they couldn't even survive a single year because of simple seasonal changes, on a planet designed (apparently) to be habitable.

Again, there just aren't enough bodies on Destiny to found a civilization much beyond a stone age village.

And then of course there is the whole static language problem.

Oh, and the idea that a single source of Chinese genetic material (Ray) could be enough so people 2000 years later (about 60 to 70 generations) would have distinct "racial" differences so some could clearly look Chinese and others not... no, sorry, it doesn't work that way.

Sigh...

And where did you get the idea that Wray is the only Asian person on the ship? We've seen several. It doesn't help that the actor who played Yazou (August Schellenberg) is actually half-Swiss and half-Indian (Native American), the perfect "mutt" for the part.

They also had a ton of supplies/tools. They were trying to evacuate back to earth - each person had one bag with them. The Faith planet had relatively rough conditions, while this one seemed to be rather pleasant-looking. Besides, it took them decades to build a simple town - how is that inconceivable?

It's actually harder to believe that it took them a full 2,000 years to get to our current level of technology - we managed it in less (technological advancement was largely at a standstill from the fall of Rome til the Enlightenment - I'd imagine there were no Dark Ages to hold these folks back).

Airlock
April 18th, 2011, 09:49 PM
Sigh....

Ok, I can see why some of you like this episode.

For those who like space battles - you got drones buzzing and shooting.

For those who lamented the lack of use of the gates - you got gates.

But, overall as a story and as fiction, IMO it lacked the necessary cohesion and believability. And I'm not talking about the time travel (as much as a cop-out that is for story writers.)

Let me ask you all a question: how many of you could build a house from scratch, without tools? Or, how many of you could even make a barrel (complete with metal bands), from scratch?

And so on.

Yes, the crew was well educated, but except for military survival training most of them wouldn't have the skills (forget the theoretical knowledge about physics and math - much of it wouldn't be of much use) to build anything more than the most primitive of medieval villages - there just wouldn't be enough laborers.

Indeed, that was the whole lesson from the Faith planet. Those people died because they couldn't even survive a single year because of simple seasonal changes, on a planet designed (apparently) to be habitable.

Again, there just aren't enough bodies on Destiny to found a civilization much beyond a stone age village.

I thought the exact same thing. That was a stretch for me. The houses had roofing, and I think I saw glass windows. Everyone was wearing different clothes that were clearly sown, stitched, and tailored. Where did they get all those different fabrics? Eli was wearing a button down shirt that mind as well have been purchased at Sax Fith Avenue. Why would he be wearing that shirt all of a sudden? If they've had the means to make new clothes, don't you think they would have done that already? They've been wearing the same clothes since episode 1.

Overall though, I thought the episode was pretty balanced and it addressed many of the broader SG themes that until now has been left out of SGU. For me that's important because I like when something embraces its roots. For an SGU episode, Common Descent was pretty densely packed with content -- both from an informational standpoint and plot-wise.

Pharaoh Atem
April 18th, 2011, 09:50 PM
the only thing that bugged me was the solor panel

Shylodog
April 18th, 2011, 09:50 PM
hmm, 2000 years is a long time

Especially when you have scientific knowledge as a foundation without the stigma of religious heracy.

General Jumper One
April 18th, 2011, 09:51 PM
They were able to do all these things because they had 10 YEARS to do it.

General Jumper One
April 18th, 2011, 09:52 PM
the only thing that bugged me was the solor panel

why did the solar panel bug you, you saw the city and how advanced they were obviously they would have them.

Pharaoh Atem
April 18th, 2011, 09:54 PM
why did the solar panel bug you, you saw the city and how advanced they were obviously they would have them.

to be honest i only saw about 13% of the ep so i guess i shouldn't be judging to much.

tomaso88
April 18th, 2011, 09:56 PM
HOW THE HELL DID THE GATE GET DESTROYED the gates are suppose to be really super strong we have seen them survive a meteor strike and more. I mean seriously how did it break just like that and since it did shouldn't of it exploded? Then again we have no idea what these ones are made out of but it is fair to say it is probably still naqueda or something similar

General Jumper One
April 18th, 2011, 10:07 PM
HOW THE HELL DID THE GATE GET DESTROYED the gates are suppose to be really super strong we have seen them survive a meteor strike and more. I mean seriously how did it break just like that and since it did shouldn't of it exploded? Then again we have no idea what these ones are made out of but it is fair to say it is probably still naqueda or something similar

We don't know if they gates are made completely out of naquada like the Milky Way and Pegasus gates, which would sort of explain their short distance and the seed ships probably have to make the gates out of resources from the planets they visit, so not much naquada

k1037
April 18th, 2011, 10:12 PM
HOW THE HELL DID THE GATE GET DESTROYED the gates are suppose to be really super strong we have seen them survive a meteor strike and more. I mean seriously how did it break just like that and since it did shouldn't of it exploded? Then again we have no idea what these ones are made out of but it is fair to say it is probably still naqueda or something similar

Materials/old design play a role, but the drone weapons also seem to be *extremely* powerful. Destiny's shields can withstand a long, sustained assault from the Blues and even being inside of a sun! Yet both the Blues and Destiny get beaten into a pulp within minutes by drone attacks.

And maybe the hit just overloaded that part of the gate and helped it go boom.

AscendedTauri
April 18th, 2011, 10:13 PM
THESE gates PRE-DATE the SG-1 and SGA gates. It makes sense they would be a weaker and less-advanced gate!!

goga
April 18th, 2011, 10:17 PM
The people had solar panels because their home planet was almost as advanced as ours.

What would be really cool is if somehow the people made contact with Asgard and the other 4 races. That would have been siiiiick. I would have loved to see some reference to the Furlings, or one of the others. Ancients were around before that, but maybe 2k years ago there was some war and alliances forming between other races. zomg

tomaso88
April 18th, 2011, 10:17 PM
yea but I would still think the gate should have exploded then getting damaged like that though I am no scientist nor do I know the facts so I could be wrong 100% for all I know

Space Gate12
April 18th, 2011, 10:18 PM
That was one hour of quality Sci-Fi entertainment. It takes me back to the SG-1 days but with a modern twist to it. I thoroughly enjoyed this episode. Alas, we shall never see a third season of universe, or a movie for that matter. :( We can only hope that the final three episodes of the series shall be more amazing and fantastic than ever before, giving us a glimpse into the far-flung reaches of the universe where anything is possible.

mere earthling
April 18th, 2011, 10:19 PM
Sorry forgot to reply with quote

I have to agree with you, I was disappointed that the village so "perfect". There is no way they could have built those houses after 10 years without electric saws (my family owned a lumber yard and built a few homes). Where would they have gotten all the metal to fashion tools?

Also all the men were cleanly shaven when TJ was giving birth in the grass hut. Minor things but a little too much suspension of disbelief.

Pharaoh Atem
April 18th, 2011, 10:20 PM
THESE gates PRE-DATE the SG-1 and SGA gates. It makes sense they would be a weaker and less-advanced gate!!

plus they have to be made and planted on a planet quickly by the seed ship so i'm sure the ancients made sure the gates materials wwere simple .

tomaso88
April 18th, 2011, 10:23 PM
shouldnt of they ascended like if they ahve been around that long shouldnt their evolution be a lot further similar to the ancients since the asgard said we aren't that far behind well jack wasn't so should of they ascended or have powers?

Space Gate12
April 18th, 2011, 10:24 PM
I have to agree with you, I was disappointed that it was so "perfect". There is no way they could have built those houses after 10 years without electric saws (my family owned a lumber yard and built a few homes). Where would they have gotten all the metal to fashion tools?

Also all the men were cleanly shaven when TJ was giving birth in the grass hut. Minor things but a little too much suspension of disbelief.

Yes, Not to mention injection molded plastic housings (case) for the solar panel. If it were just a solar panel with wires sticking out of it that would have been better. But its just one prop so Im not going to have a cow over it.

Kaiphantom
April 18th, 2011, 10:34 PM
Interesting episode. I'll say first off, that we had more deliberate confirmation that there are 3 docking slips, since we have two shuttles (attached to the two forward slips) and yet they still had the rear facing one available to launch the drone out of. I wonder if people will still deny it? ;p

Anyway, decent episode overall. I think we all pretty much figured who those people were going to be, but I didn't quite expect 2,000 years to go by. Although when I heard that, I admit I was hoping to see that, somehow, they'd find a well-advanced civilization that could help repair Destiny somewhat. I still hold out some hope, because I'm betting more humans went off world through the gate and started other colonies. And given such a city (and nuclear weapons), I'm betting they had to have had at least a couple of ships.

As for the drones, I don't think they were created on Novis. Eli and Rush studied one, and would have been able to tell right away if it was human technology.

Now, as for Rush, my opinion as someone who understands him, is that he is just plain uncomfortable with the idea of being thought of as anything more than a man. He might also be uncomfortable with the idea of a fully developed planet where the crew might want to disembark and live out their lives there. It would have to be tempting to some, to get off the ship and live in a modern world again, even if it wasn't Earth.

I won't go into genetic diversity much, nor how they made some of the stuff, other than to say that human ingenuity shouldn't be underestimated, and going back through our own history, you'll find some interesting stuff developed many hundreds of years before you thought. Given people who already knew science, it's very possible.

11 Modern Technologies That Are Way Older Than You Think (http://www.cracked.com/article_16973_11-modern-technologies-that-are-way-older-than-you-think_p2.html) (Warning: Cracked.com can be a bit NSFW, but it's not too bad).

Pursue that article, and you'll be amazed; and again, that's with people who were merely guessing at times. Notice that batteries were actually invented in 200 BC. Pretty crazy, eh?

Now, back to the episode, although not much else to say. I did expect someone to mention the stasis pods at some point; it would have been the clear solution. Power wouldn't be an issue, when they can drop out and dip into a sun, but they would save on the CO2 scrubbers and supplies. It'll be interesting to see what the next episode does, because I fully expect that to be addressed if the people plan to stay on board.

Although, Destiny is a big ship. It would be interesting to see the crew expanded and the ship more fully occupied, with more people helping to repair it and such. As hinted, I expect more people to stay, so the only real remaining issue is food. Although they have a larger hydroponics bay now, and I'm sure they can establish more of those around the ship, so in time, they should be able to grow enough fruit and veggies for everyone.

But mainly, I'm getting a bit tired of having the ship falling apart all the time. I didn't want it to quite be like Atlantis, but I would have liked to see them make more progress on repairs. Still holding out some hope that the advanced humans survived somewhere, and they can get some better spare parts and repair tools.

I'm also a bit puzzled... Destiny has obviously been through a number of battles, yet almost every fight since they've been aboard has been a real dire situation with Destiny on the verge of being destroyed. I know it's for drama, but it doesn't quite track well with me. I really feel the ship should be handling better, especially since it has been pretty much shown before that the shield is all encompassing as long as it has power; nothing should be getting through.

But I digress. Decent episode, no real holes otherwise. Looking forward to seeing what comes next.

BadOnion
April 18th, 2011, 10:38 PM
Just a guess, not a spoiler, but I think the stasis pods will eventually come in to play as to what to do with all those extra people they are now stuck with.

SBN
April 18th, 2011, 10:42 PM
Sorry forgot to reply with quote

I have to agree with you, I was disappointed that the village so "perfect". There is no way they could have built those houses after 10 years without electric saws (my family owned a lumber yard and built a few homes). Where would they have gotten all the metal to fashion tools?

Also all the men were cleanly shaven when TJ was giving birth in the grass hut. Minor things but a little too much suspension of disbelief.

I think a group of normal everyday people caught out in the wild surely would have problems building anything resembling a decent village much less society. But this is a mix of military and science. I don't think it would take that long to identify resources that could be used to easily make tools, which could them be used to manufacture even more complex tools. Ten years is a lot of time, and should that planet which looked very lush with resources, should have given them all the opportunity to develop quickly. We have to assume they were able to find a natural resource for food which was easily attainable. With that in mind then more energy and time could be devoted to development.

So 10 years does sound at least plausible for me. Had it been 2 or 5 I would have thrown my coffee at the screen.

KEK
April 18th, 2011, 10:43 PM
Yes, the crew was well educated, but except for military survival training most of them wouldn't have the skills (forget the theoretical knowledge about physics and math - much of it wouldn't be of much use) to build anything more than the most primitive of medieval villages - there just wouldn't be enough laborers.

You're talking about 2000 years worth of refinement and population growth aided by kinos (presumably) packed full of recorded knowledge from scientist and engineers. You don't they could reach our level of development? Hell, within a generation or two they could have running water and electricity, imagine what they could have in 2000 years.

LeonK
April 18th, 2011, 10:54 PM
Liked this episode more than last week's.

Did find it odd, though, that the colony had no form of entertainment, like their version of a gameboy or tv.....and also that they didn't seem to have any real weapons other than a knife.....and why didn't they have some form of vehicle? Are they advanced enough to build giant cities or aren't they?

Meh, strangely enough the little annoying things don't seem so annoying to me tonight, probably because I liked the episode more than last week's.

BadOnion
April 18th, 2011, 10:56 PM
this colony was cut off abruptly before they got everything they needed to function independently

Airlock
April 18th, 2011, 11:16 PM
You're talking about 2000 years worth of refinement and population growth aided by kinos (presumably) packed full of recorded knowledge from scientist and engineers. You don't they could reach our level of development? Hell, within a generation or two they could have running water and electricity, imagine what they could have in 2000 years.

senilegreen wasn't referring to the "descendants." The comment was about the Destiny crew that had just arrived on that planet and had to build a village from scratch. As Col. Young says, "with our bare hands."

KEK
April 18th, 2011, 11:45 PM
I'd have to re-watch, but it didn't look that advanced did it?

Julian
April 18th, 2011, 11:58 PM
This episode had a classic feel, total awesome, can't wait for next weeks

+1. SGU has been getting better and better and it's such a shame. I really felt like this week's and two weeks ago's episodes were so reminiscent of SG-1 it's making me feel so nostalgic but very fond of SGU.

I love the concept of the civilisation created by the Destiny...

Kilgharrah
April 19th, 2011, 12:18 AM
Ok, so I loved this one.
These people somehow remind me of Athosians. Advanced people forced to live in tents.
To think that people from our generation become the Ancients to these people. Just the thought of it...
Who knows??? Maybe they are more advanced now than THE Ancients that built Destiny.
That's why I think they would have evacuated by now. They could have built ships too. Who knows. They could have even re-built the civilizations.
Of course there would be disagreements and maybe even wars. They are still us even if they are more advanced. It's a shame technological advancements doesn't help us solve our problems or even make us more civilized. Not to mention that their ancestors already had their disagreements in addition to some new ones that must have formed later back then.

I just thought I'd discuss few stuff in this episode and say what fascinated me about it, but I'm not gonna give a full analysis or even rate this episode like I do with every other episode until I see the continuity.

Edit: I believe the drones are going (or in other words coz SGU is over, were supposed) to be just like the Wraith. They will appear everywhere to interrupt them and prolong the episode

Shokada
April 19th, 2011, 12:22 AM
Going back to the idea of the Futurans creating the drones, does anybody think that it could have been alternate universe Rush for some higher purpose? After all, he did upload his consciousness to alt Destiny and was heading towards a star (possible time travel again). I'm thinking that the AI of the drones could be the consciousness of Rush. I can't see that the writers will go without telling us who the creators are. This episode raised this thought for me.

Shadow_7
April 19th, 2011, 01:00 AM
Clearly they didn't create the drones. They didn't seem to have any space capabilities beyond just the gate. They didn't even recognize the drones. Even the city looked a bit low tech on the surface. If they created the drones, they probably wouldn't have roads. Much less tents or radio towers that fall over in the wind. So it had a little help, but still if they'd been there 30 years, they certainly didn't look to be settling in any.

Otherwise great episode. People to see, things to learn. Something that's been missing from most of SGU so far.

And other inconsistencies of sorts. For them to be there 2,000 years, the planets would have had to have been seeded 2,000+ years ago. So either the seed ships are faster and/or sent out more than just a couple of years before Destiny. And if more than a couple of years, probably not "the resources of an entire generation". But perhaps several generations. And for a 2,000 year old gate, it certainly didn't seem to be overgrown with vegetation. And/or burried in dust/dirt.

Vasilcin
April 19th, 2011, 01:20 AM
well Park is asian right ? ;P

And there may be more of them on the ship, i think i remember seeing a little asian guy with glasses on the faith planet... or did he stay ?

Vasilcin
April 19th, 2011, 01:21 AM
totally agreeing with you, seeing how the seed ships has to construct the gates.... maybe naquada isn't native to other galaxies

MattSilver 3k
April 19th, 2011, 01:35 AM
Favourite episode of the season, with Cloverdale, Twin Destinies, Hope and Malice trailing. After The Hunt, it was such a relief to get Rob Cooper's writing, and it really rocked my socks and was just awesome throughout. Everyone had a solid moment, but this was a huge Eli episode - and after the blows he's been getting with Ginn lately, it was awesome to see him take a stance and stick by it the entire time. Wray was too pretty great - feels like three weeks since we've seen her... Which it has, but she was good fun all 'round.

Episode like this is what I love about SGU.

Commander Zelix
April 19th, 2011, 01:40 AM
That was one hour of quality Sci-Fi entertainment. It takes me back to the SG-1 days but with a modern twist to it.
Yep, this episode felt like a modern SG-1 episode (s1 to s6).

Mr Evil 37
April 19th, 2011, 01:42 AM
For them to be there 2,000 years, the planets would have had to have been seeded 2,000+ years ago. So either the seed ships are faster and/or sent out more than just a couple of years before Destiny. And if more than a couple of years, probably not "the resources of an entire generation". But perhaps several generations.

We don't know how much time lapsed between launching the seep ships and launching Destiny. And even if we did, there are many explanations: it would make sense if the seed ships were faster than Destiny; the damage the Destiny has sustained has likely reduced it's speed over millions of years, so assuming the seed ships don't encounter any hostile aliens, the gap between them could easily increase; the seed ship the crew discovered could have been there for hundreds if not thousands of years before the Ursini found it.


And for a 2,000 year old gate, it certainly didn't seem to be overgrown with vegetation. And/or burried in dust/dirt.

You could say that about every single Stargate that has ever appeared in the entire Stargate franchise. But in this case, the Novus expedition who came to the planet likely cleared the gate of vegetation or debris.

blazingfire
April 19th, 2011, 02:54 AM
They detonated C4 to unbury a gate in that episode where Riley died and now it gets destroyed with a single blast?? And where the hell was Varro??


Plotholes aside, I personally think this was one of the better episodes there with Time and Twin Destinies.
The ending was really great.
If they had more episodes like this, maybe the show wouldn't have done so bad in the ratings.

Demoniser
April 19th, 2011, 03:05 AM
They detonated C4 to unbury a gate in that episode where Riley died and now it gets destroyed with a single blast?? And where the hell was Varro??
.

Hell, forget the c4, we've seen gates being hit by meteorites, alkesh, surviving inside a star, surviving the gravitational forces of a black hole, but somehow it survives a tiny drone damaging it.

Indestructible until it's convenient for it to be destructible :p.

Plot points aside, this was a good episode. SGU has been getting much better over the past season. While there are episodes that i think were pretty much filler, and a waste in the grand scheme of things (Cloverdale, Pathogen) overall it's been far better than the first season.

Looking forward to next week, and the remaining episodes, i'm hoping that the show goes out on a high note.

Mr Evil 37
April 19th, 2011, 03:18 AM
Perhaps a directed energy blast to a single point would do more damage? Not sure. The drones were presumably designed to pierce ship hull, which has to be thick to retain atmosphere and hold out in a skirmish. Plus they are alien technology, so their weapons could be far more powerful than what the Ancients designed the Stargates for.

Another thing to consider is that the gates in the Destiny network are prototypes, so perhaps by the time they got to the Milky Way and Pegasus stage they were built of stronger stuff. Just a thought.

senilegreen
April 19th, 2011, 03:19 AM
I thought the exact same thing. That was a stretch for me. The houses had roofing, and I think I saw glass windows. Everyone was wearing different clothes that were clearly sown, stitched, and tailored. Where did they get all those different fabrics? Eli was wearing a button down shirt that mind as well have been purchased at Sax Fith Avenue. Why would he be wearing that shirt all of a sudden? If they've had the means to make new clothes, don't you think they would have done that already? They've been wearing the same clothes since episode 1.



Yup, all those things.

In the Star Trek universe the replication machines is the gimmick that allows the stories to get around the lack of bodies to make things.

But Stargate Universe has no such out. Again, the problem is the lack of human laborers and practical craft skills, not the theoretical knowledge. How many people are on Destiny? 40 some plus the few LA. That's enough skill to keep from reverting totally to hunter-gatherer mode, but most people will spend most of their days dealing with finding and preparing food, and the remaining will be preoccupied with basic building of infrastructure (common buildings, wells, etc.)

I agree that the story as a whole had its charms, and that it had a bit of that SG-1 feel (stargate dependence, meeting other people, even the humor) but the writers really wrote a story hoping the viewers wouldn't stop and think about it.

Egle01
April 19th, 2011, 03:29 AM
It's hard to watch such an awesome episode and not feel utter sadness that after episode 20 it's really over. Loved "Common Descent" from start to finish.

At first it seemed odd that after 2000 years they had equipment they didn't take with 'em in TD and it seemed to be in perfect condition. After learning they're just expedition team who's stuck, it made more sense.

It was painful to watch TJ seeing the kino recording. :(

Although I disliked the idea of another forest planet, it makes sense the the expedition team was sent to a habitable planet that's perfect for settlement.

3 - I repeat, THREE - episodes to go. :danielanime08:

traylormatt
April 19th, 2011, 04:06 AM
Yup, all those things.

In the Star Trek universe the replication machines is the gimmick that allows the stories to get around the lack of bodies to make things.

But Stargate Universe has no such out. Again, the problem is the lack of human laborers and practical craft skills, not the theoretical knowledge. How many people are on Destiny? 40 some plus the few LA. That's enough skill to keep from reverting totally to hunter-gatherer mode, but most people will spend most of their days dealing with finding and preparing food, and the remaining will be preoccupied with basic building of infrastructure (common buildings, wells, etc.)

I agree that the story as a whole had its charms, and that it had a bit of that SG-1 feel (stargate dependence, meeting other people, even the humor) but the writers really wrote a story hoping the viewers wouldn't stop and think about it.

As has already been established, They all of a basic knowledge of sewing and maintaining clothing. Couple that with Varro and the LA who have shown to be able to survive at a more basic level, living only by eating what they hunt, it is perfectly possible that they know how to make thread to make clothing. We saw them wearing clothing but those could still just be the very few they have made over decades. We have yet to see what the crew on board are capable of when they are given resources and as much time as needed.

Really, you think most of the people would spend most of their time hunting and preparing food? is that what they have been doing on Destiny to stay alive? I am pretty sure they would be able to plant gardens and grow food to a much larger scale then on Destiny. That would allow them to live to the level they have been on board so far and also harvest some for winter months. Then send out a few of the best hunters to gather meat and skin for clothing. And go fishing.

If some of the smartest minds we have ever known coupled with some excellent hunters cant manage to build a small society and slowly turn that into a larger society once they start farming and developing with the knowledge of what not to do to waste time but understand only what needs to be done for efficiency, then I am amazed that we have evolved to have indoor plumbing.

Pecisk
April 19th, 2011, 04:31 AM
I don't want to hear anyone TORRENT SGU, this shows is worth the money!

Even if you can't buy it legally anywhere? And there is no any hope that you ever have any chance to?

MechaThor
April 19th, 2011, 04:44 AM
Really good and interesting epsiode. Lots of great stuff packed into so little time, something SGU always did really well. Loved how it started off with the Drones, then just as you was thinking it would be a run and hide, run and hide style episode, DAM future people from the past.

The action, pace, the story and visuals where all fantastic. My only two issues was, 1. how easily the Stargate was damaged, although I guess it could be explained by saying that the Destiny Gates are not as strong as the MW ones, and i guess they are "budget gates", possibly only designed as a temporary network.
and 2. How quick the "oh no we're stranded...... oh look we're saved". However the way Ellie and Scott used the gate as a single was a awesome concept.

The episode was not as predictable as I first thought aswell, with me constantly exspecting the revelation of "our decedents made the drones", happy I was wrong though.

Fun Episode, looking forward to next week.

Commander Zelix
April 19th, 2011, 04:55 AM
It was painful to watch TJ seeing the kino recording. :(

It was a great scene and idea, but I think they were all pretty cruel to play that recording in front of TJ. She just lost a child for god-sakes and there must be much more keno footage to watch than watching TJ giving birth. But again, it also shows that she can move on and have another child in the future.

MattSilver 3k
April 19th, 2011, 04:59 AM
It was a great scene and idea, but I think they were all pretty cruel to play that recording in front of TJ. She just lost a child for god-sakes and there must be much more keno footage to watch than watching TJ giving birth. But again, it also shows that she can move on and have another child in the future.

I think, from the reaction, the footage suddenly jumped to her giving birth without them knowing, and by the time Eli had thought to even turn it off, TJ was too far into it and that would've been the truly cruel moment.

AndSoItBegins
April 19th, 2011, 05:12 AM
If they had more episodes like this, maybe the show wouldn't have done so bad in the ratings.

God, must we get this comment virtually EVERY episode? It is beyond tiring and played out. Season two has several standout episodes so its not as if TPTB were waiting for to give you good stuff only at the end. Besides...I find it difficult to come up with many or any SG1 and SGA eps to compare this to in terms of quality. So what's their excuse of not having a lot of episodes as good as this over their combined 15 seasons?

sholva1
April 19th, 2011, 05:35 AM
so whose descendants do you guys think Jason and Ellie are? i'm thinking Scott and Chloe.

umm this is 2000 years of breeding it wouldn't be the same

Mr Evil 37
April 19th, 2011, 05:47 AM
I actually think Jason looks a lot like Eli, and Ellie looks like Chloe. I think it's pretty clear that Yauzou is descended from Camille, although I guess it is possible that he learned Chinese from Camille's real descendant.

General Jumper One
April 19th, 2011, 05:48 AM
I actually think Jason looks a lot like Eli, and Ellie looks like Chloe. I think it's pretty clear that Yauzou is descended from Camille, although I guess it is possible that he learned Japanese from Camille's real descendant.

Chinese ;)

Mr Evil 37
April 19th, 2011, 05:51 AM
Chinese ;)

Edited :P

Perelandra
April 19th, 2011, 06:52 AM
I absolutely loved this episode-Can't wait to re-watch.

Shan Bruce Lee
April 19th, 2011, 07:17 AM
Not happy that it was Young as TJ's hubby and not Varro. I thought we were past that :P Other than that it was an awesome ep :D

Yeah, I was expecting it to be Varro that showed up.


What do you want to bet the rush worshippers unleashed those drones on the galaxy?

That would be a nice twist. I can't see how they'd work that out though, since they've already established the drones are part of a war between 2 alien races.

Sue_Jackson
April 19th, 2011, 07:20 AM
Wow! That certainly was a fascinating episode! Very compelling! I'm still confused with the whole timeline thing. Timeline episodes always make my brain hurt. Kinda freaky that those people were the descendents of the people on Destiny. It was hard for me to get my head around that. And...happened to all those people? They did seem far advanced in technology and socially. I thought it was kinda funny weird when the descendents talked like Americans. I can't wait to see what happens next week. :)

I've decided I don't like Rush anymore. He has become a bitter, cynical, S.O.B. He has lost all emotion, and is too rapped up in Destiny that he doesn't even seem human anymore. He's lost his passion. He's more like a robot.

traylormatt
April 19th, 2011, 07:27 AM
I've decided I don't like Rush anymore. He has become a bitter, cynical, S.O.B. He has lost all emotion, and is too rapped up in Destiny that he doesn't even seem human anymore. He's lost his passion. He's more like a robot.

I think he was just seeing the consequences of letting all of these people on board and didn't like it .

So, a group of humans have some kind of cultural split amongst themselves. One seems to believe in some kind of book called the testament all about the "ANCESTORS" and rather than going to war, one group decide to find a new place they may be able to call home??? Hmmmmmmmmmm, this sounds familiar.

Shan Bruce Lee
April 19th, 2011, 07:30 AM
Something doesn't sit well with me... This is the third (as far as we know) generation of the Stargate with the Milky Way & Asgard galaxy being the first generation and Pegasus as the second...

We've seen multiple times of the gate surviving massive explosions, being shot at... having an Alkesh crash into it... and so on... But a single drone can destroy a Naquadah gate just by 1 shot?!

I've always seen these gates as being inferior to the others.


shouldnt of they ascended like if they ahve been around that long shouldnt their evolution be a lot further similar to the ancients since the asgard said we aren't that far behind well jack wasn't so should of they ascended or have powers?

It's only been 2000 years for them. That's not really a lot of time to evolve, definitely not long enough to evolve to the point of ascention.

The_Asgard_live
April 19th, 2011, 07:40 AM
I think there was a bit too much testosterone on the "How do you know our names" bit..

Wasn't fond of the fact that like the Ancients, the Destiny "Ancients" show up and are a disappointment. Thanks for the supplies, we aren't going to help you and we led the enemy straight to you. (smacks of SG1 200 where SG1 meets the furlings).

2,000 years worth of human advancement starting with Earth's best minds with at worst current human knowledge and at best a whole bunch of ancient knowledge and some Ancient tech. I hope they don't disappoint when they explore the city, they should be way advanced. I fear some disappointment though, I thought I saw what looked like traffic lights on the street (cars?!?).

Small gene pool, Wray most likely needing to get pregnant several times with several men, interesting.

Despite some problems, one of my favorite SGU episodes because I can't wait to see what they find on that planet. Hope they don't disappoint.

gaguhan.galore
April 19th, 2011, 07:40 AM
1. alt!eli had a son, i wonder who's the mom.
2. alt!varro got sidetracked by alt!young, hoboy.
3. alt!wray most likely a baby factory out of necessity - lol.
4. yay more redshirts (had the show been extended for season 3)
5. yay more human aliens (that weren't really aliens but you get the idea)
--which means more english-speaking human-inhabited planets of hats, at least in the current galaxy (had the show been extended for season 3 and/or they haven't been annihilated by drones or whoever)
6. speaking of drones... (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?80755-hmm-DRONES)

blazingfire
April 19th, 2011, 07:42 AM
God, must we get this comment virtually EVERY episode? It is beyond tiring and played out. Season two has several standout episodes so its not as if TPTB were waiting for to give you good stuff only at the end. Besides...I find it difficult to come up with many or any SG1 and SGA eps to compare this to in terms of quality. So what's their excuse of not having a lot of episodes as good as this over their combined 15 seasons?

I wouldn't say EVERY episode. Just the ones I feel are somewhat closer to the classic Stargate, action/adventure with drama and character interaction.

LtColCarter
April 19th, 2011, 08:42 AM
Enjoyed the episode last night. I can't believe the show is almost over.

Mr Evil 37
April 19th, 2011, 08:44 AM
I've decided I don't like Rush anymore. He has become a bitter, cynical, S.O.B. He has lost all emotion, and is too rapped up in Destiny that he doesn't even seem human anymore. He's lost his passion. He's more like a robot.

And he wasn't rapped up in Destiny from the very beginning? :P I wouldn't call him a robot; if you watch "Seizure" he is very loving and emotive there. I think it's just because we haven't had an episode focus on him since then. I still love his character, even when he's being a dick.

LtColCarter
April 19th, 2011, 08:46 AM
And he wasn't rapped up in Destiny from the very beginning? :P I wouldn't call him a robot; if you watch "Seizure" he is very loving and emotive there. I think it's just because we haven't had an episode focus on him since then. I still love his character, even when he's being a dick.

I've never really cared for Rush...then again...I can't think of any character that Robert Carlyle has played that I like.

Mr Evil 37
April 19th, 2011, 08:51 AM
I've never really cared for Rush...then again...I can't think of any character that Robert Carlyle has played that I like.

I can't think of any character that Robert Carlyle has played that I DIDN'T like. Rush is just so devious, so manipulating, so mysterious; you are never quite sure of what he is doing or why. I love characters who are flawed and more interesting like that.

LtColCarter
April 19th, 2011, 08:53 AM
I can't think of any character that Robert Carlyle has played that I DIDN'T like. Rush is just so devious, so manipulating, so mysterious; you are never quite sure of what he is doing or why. I love characters who are flawed and more interesting like that.

I don't mind flawed characters, but Robert Carlyle's characters are always a bit over the edge.

The Destiny
April 19th, 2011, 08:58 AM
I actually think Jason looks a lot like Eli, and Ellie looks like Chloe. I think it's pretty clear that Yauzou is descended from Camille, although I guess it is possible that he learned Chinese from Camille's real descendant.

Agreed. Ellie definately seemed similar to Chloe. Jason looked a bit like Eli, but also a bit like Scott. I guess this is that " rather interesting, if somewhat limited, gene pool" that Vala was talking about in Avalon? ;)

MartianManhunter
April 19th, 2011, 09:12 AM
Agreed. Ellie definately seemed similar to Chloe. Jason looked a bit like Eli, but also a bit like Scott. I guess this is that " rather interesting, if somewhat limited, gene pool" that Vala was talking about in Avalon? ;)

HA! I had forgotten all about that!! I think i'm gonna go rewtach that classic moment. Thanks for the reminder :D

LtColCarter
April 19th, 2011, 09:17 AM
Agreed. Ellie definately seemed similar to Chloe. Jason looked a bit like Eli, but also a bit like Scott. I guess this is that " rather interesting, if somewhat limited, gene pool" that Vala was talking about in Avalon? ;)

Yes, I agree that Jason looked a little like Eli...but I think he looked more like Scott.

Shylodog
April 19th, 2011, 09:40 AM
As for the drones, I don't think they were created on Novis. Eli and Rush studied one, and would have been able to tell right away if it was human technology.

Just wanted to comment on this part. We would assume this only IF the parts of the drone were labled or stamped with identifying information. To assume we would be able to identify human technology would be unrealistic. Would we have identified the Tollan's technology as human? Remember they had the exact same amount of time to improve themselves technologically as Earth did, they just didn't have "The Dark Ages" so their technology was far superior to even the Goa'uld (until Anubis came along).

Skiznot
April 19th, 2011, 09:42 AM
Solid classic sci-fi. And true to SGU they go deeper into the idea than your average sci-fi show that would have wrapped everything up and hit the reset button in a single episode. Loved it!

goga
April 19th, 2011, 10:12 AM
Amazing episode. The people chosen to play Destiny's descendants look a lot like the ancients from SG-1 and Ark of Truth etc. Cool!

I hate how a lot of people did not like SGU because it had a big wind up. SG-1 ended so soon because it was difficult to keep it interesting without repeating stuff, along with a bunch of other reasons. So with SGU, they decided to have a longer wind up and set the story line of the whole series in a good foundation. That takes a season or two. SGU could have easily had like 15 seasons because the foundations are so strong.

Now that the episodes have started to get better its already canceled. Bunch of bs. I don't get how the SyFy channel can ditch such a money baby as Stargate. Even if the ratings got bad SyFy should have stuck with it and gave it a chance, after all its STARGATE!!!! SciFi original....

jelgate
April 19th, 2011, 10:23 AM
I can't think of any character that Robert Carlyle has played that I DIDN'T like. Rush is just so devious, so manipulating, so mysterious; you are never quite sure of what he is doing or why. I love characters who are flawed and more interesting like that.

I find it quite easy to figure out what he is doing. Rush is always about doing what benefits him and what he cares about no matter what the cost may be.

eonflux
April 19th, 2011, 10:34 AM
Yes, I agree that Jason looked a little like Eli...but I think he looked more like Scott.

He just looked very cute!

A very good episode very long overdue imo

LtColCarter
April 19th, 2011, 10:59 AM
He just looked very cute!

A very good episode very long overdue imo

Very much so!

The Destiny
April 19th, 2011, 11:03 AM
I thought Ellie ( Or Ely? ) was really cute.

Sp!der
April 19th, 2011, 11:32 AM
Classic Stargate feeling here. Now I am really pissed, the last episodes have been superb... its more saddening to see this franchise go! I loved this episode so much! I enjoyed it very much!

LtColCarter
April 19th, 2011, 11:40 AM
Classic Stargate feeling here. Now I am really pissed, the last episodes have been superb... its more saddening to see this franchise go! I loved this episode so much! I enjoyed it very much!

Yes...I wonder why the last few episodes have kick booty...if it had been like this all along...we might have got a 3rd season.

Skiznot
April 19th, 2011, 11:55 AM
It has been like this all along. The writing from the beginning definitely had a direction and you would tell right away that there would be growth. I knew from the episodes darkness and light that their plan was to go long and go deep. It's the same show it was from the beginning.

timmciglobal
April 19th, 2011, 12:11 PM
This really did feel classic SG. I've not given any episode a 10 but this one I'll give a 10. Great episode so far. Loved the way they were tracking them, loved the way they got a signal out to destiny, loved the idea of where the others went.

Tim

Naonak
April 19th, 2011, 12:36 PM
I can't think of any character that Robert Carlyle has played that I DIDN'T like.
Hitler? :p

SamJackShipper93
April 19th, 2011, 02:02 PM
Both of the actors who played Ellie and Jason looked familiar. Does anyone know the actors names?

KEK
April 19th, 2011, 02:06 PM
Katie Findlay & Reilly Dolman

tomaso88
April 19th, 2011, 02:25 PM
Although I do think season 1 would have been to soon to do something like an episode like this they should have had episodes like this in season one no doubt if they had episodes more often like this sgu prob wouldn't have been canceled this really takes me back to the old sg1 eps where the first time they go back in time and meet young general hammon and stuff like that it's great to have episodes like this it's sad that sgu is canceled now :(

Shadow_7
April 19th, 2011, 05:04 PM
Let me ask you all a question: how many of you could build a house from scratch, without tools? Or, how many of you could even make a barrel (complete with metal bands), from scratch?


I think that someone who built a still on a space ship would be capable of that task. Bear in mind that at one time we could walk to a stream and pull nuggets of gold right off the shoreline. It's just that we've been here a while and most of those nuggets have been put to use. Or at least locked away in vaults. But on an unspoiled world, raw materials would literally be laying around per say. And with engineers all around, plus a few military types. Anything is possible.

garhkal
April 19th, 2011, 06:48 PM
Loved seeing the Drones again. The city at the ending was just awesomely done.

At first when we started seeing it, i was reminded of the Asuran City, but then i saw there was no bridges....


really enjoyed seeing how the other destiny crew lived and it made me have this feeling of how the pilgrams first came over here to the U.S

Which might explain why they still spoke English.


Can't wait for the repeat to see the first half, because the second alone was awesome. The city was amazing, the drones were relentless as always. I particularly loved how they blew an entire section out of the gate. That was a nice touch. You never saw that in the other series.

Which makes me wonder. WE saw in the other series it take a lot more to destroy a gate, but those were made of Naquida. So does this mean these are NOT made of naquida?


The city was amazing, I just wish that we would have found it populated on the verge of disaster, kind of like SGA's Inferno.

If it was a supervolcano that errupted, that might explain why the gate could no longer connect.. its buried or got melted!


Eli is starting to become the Daniel Jackson of the group when they were in the village and he wanted to see the testament.

Being it was all kino'ed it looked like, it wouldn't be surprising to me, to see him want to see it. As it seems he is the expert on all things Kino related..


What do you want to bet the rush worshippers unleashed those drones on the galaxy?

Doubt it.. otherwise they would have known what the drones were.


those colonists really were stranded. i mean they didn't even have the communication stones to let earth know.

I am actually surprised we didn't see (or even just hear) of someone using the stone's to connect to Earth and tell HWC about what was going on.. i am sure they would have LOVED to hear about this discovery!


i got this feeling that Rush knew more about what was going on than he led on.

I didn't.. In fact, i was wondering if Rush was just being his usual cagy self.


Rush is a moody b**ch sometimes. I was really confused by his actions on the bridge when Wray tried to introduce him. It's like he was hardcore dodging. Even when Eli first proposed the theory that the other Destiny crew was sent back in time, there was this closeup shot of Rush with a look on his face as if the others were getting closer to a truth he was hoping they'd never find out. And it just seems odd that all this fascinating stuff is happening and Rush carries on not only uninterested, but seemingly anti. Strange to say the least. I'd like to think we'll get more on this next episode.

Perhaps cause it might prove he was Wrong in the rest dying, which was part of the guilt that Alt rush carried, which made him go sit in the chair.. And that is weighing on rush.


Rush has mixed feelings about all of this. He's probably relieved in his own crazy way that his alternate self didn't kill the crew when the wormhole disengaged and is upset to know a portion of the crew's descendants think of him as a demon.

While others worship him...


The people had solar panels because their home planet was almost as advanced as ours.

What would be really cool is if somehow the people made contact with Asgard and the other 4 races. That would have been siiiiick. I would have loved to see some reference to the Furlings, or one of the others. Ancients were around before that, but maybe 2k years ago there was some war and alliances forming between other races. zomg

They maybe advanced by our standards, but i seriously doubt they had anything tech wise that could have let them comm anyone else outside of that galaxy.


Now, as for Rush, my opinion as someone who understands him, is that he is just plain uncomfortable with the idea of being thought of as anything more than a man. He might also be uncomfortable with the idea of a fully developed planet where the crew might want to disembark and live out their lives there. It would have to be tempting to some, to get off the ship and live in a modern world again, even if it wasn't Earth.

Especially since that might mean smarter folk than him taking over, OR them abandoning the mission..


Liked this episode more than last week's.

Did find it odd, though, that the colony had no form of entertainment, like their version of a gameboy or tv.....and also that they didn't seem to have any real weapons other than a knife.....and why didn't they have some form of vehicle? Are they advanced enough to build giant cities or aren't they?

Meh, strangely enough the little annoying things don't seem so annoying to me tonight, probably because I liked the episode more than last week's.

Maybe since it was a excursion to see viability of other worlds, they didn't bring much in the way of tech.. other than what was necessary for survival..



Who knows??? Maybe they are more advanced now than THE Ancients that built Destiny.

In just 2000 yrs.. Especially with starting from scratch (with what they carried when they evacuated.).. I seriously doubt they were even 1% closer..


Even if you can't buy it legally anywhere? And there is no any hope that you ever have any chance to?

Even so, its still bad form around here.



I've decided I don't like Rush anymore. He has become a bitter, cynical, S.O.B. He has lost all emotion, and is too rapped up in Destiny that he doesn't even seem human anymore. He's lost his passion. He's more like a robot.

IMO not surprising.. He lost Gloria his love.. Found new love in Perry, lost her, Got her back to only get trapped in a simulation of her's, then had her taken away again. Some people get real cynical after just 1 major heart break..


I can't think of any character that Robert Carlyle has played that I DIDN'T like. Rush is just so devious, so manipulating, so mysterious; you are never quite sure of what he is doing or why. I love characters who are flawed and more interesting like that.

Some of his i liked, some i didn't.. Some i have not seen.


Katie Findlay & Reilly Dolman

Thanks.. Now to IMDB them..Interesting Both are in CD and in Epilogue, but only Katie is listed as being in both.

the fifth man
April 19th, 2011, 07:42 PM
What a great episode this was. Definitely one of Universe's finest episodes to date.:) Seeing this episode made me even more upset about the cancellation though. What a shame that this is almost over.:( But for now, I just want to look forward to next week. I can't wait to see what happens next.

ross613
April 19th, 2011, 07:57 PM
After watching this ep, I've only got one question:

WHY THE HELL WOULD MGM/SyFy CANCEL SG:U again??? This show should've been at the very bottom of the list when it came time to decide what to cancel....and this is one fan who's gonna wait until season 3 of any new series before speding (lest wasting) any time watching it.

morrismike
April 19th, 2011, 08:23 PM
Let's see....
1. very expensive to make
2. chased away the female viewers right off the bat
3. chased off franchise fans mid way thru first season
4. fear of cancellation prompted TPTB to make it watchable
5. the women and SG fans never looked back to realize it was the SG they grew up watching
6. the show is great now but the improvements in season 2 runs a risk of losing those fans that loved season 1
7. syfy can't make money
8. MGM had opportunity to profit share from sales of the original showings overseas and chose to stick it to syfy
9. Syfy dropped it

really it is just this simple

thekillman
April 20th, 2011, 12:22 AM
the troll-esque nature of that post ignoring:

the fans that left never returned to see it got better
those who were biased against it never watched it
whoever thought there wasn't enough action never pulled through.

Egle01
April 20th, 2011, 01:26 AM
If I were crew member on Destiny, I'd stay far away from Eli, Scott and Greer. At least on off-world missions. They have tendency to get stuck on alien planets. :P

Regardless, I think this descendats' storyline is one of the coolest PTB have come with. At least in my opinion.

ns2
April 20th, 2011, 03:14 AM
Both of the actors who played Ellie and Jason looked familiar. Does anyone know the actors names?

The girl who plays Ellie is a murder victim on AMC's The Killing

KEK
April 20th, 2011, 08:26 AM
Did anyone notice Young's finger at about 33:35

WTF

morbosfist
April 20th, 2011, 09:54 AM
Yeesh. I can't do that with my pinky. Maybe he's got a double joint there.

carmencatalina
April 20th, 2011, 11:32 AM
Regardless, I think this descendats' storyline is one of the coolest PTB have come with. At least in my opinion.

You know, the more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to agree with you. I mean, they didn't just manage to survive and left descendants for "our" Destiny crew to meet - there is this huge, empty city! Buried in volcanic ash! The visuals are amazing, and I'm so glad the story continues next week.

If nothing else, these last few episodes are turning out to be rather epic.

Artemis-Neith
April 20th, 2011, 12:58 PM
Did anyone notice Young's finger at about 33:35

WTF


Yeesh. I can't do that with my pinky. Maybe he's got a double joint there.

Yeah, that's something I've seen before. Don't know what it is, but the finger is stiff, I think. Surely a question for the Young/Ferreira thread, I guess somebody knows.

traylormatt
April 20th, 2011, 01:18 PM
It was a great episode. What I do hate, well not hate because I understand that it is to develop a story and what have you, but is that they came at this point. Imagine if they dropped out 50 years earlier and found the planet. How cool would that have been. I can tell you. SO COOL.

The Destiny
April 20th, 2011, 02:19 PM
Mass celebrations all over the place!

By the way, did you guys see the statue of Young ( I think it was Young ) in the promo and sneak peak? It's there when they land. That's so cool ^^

ross613
April 20th, 2011, 03:55 PM
Let's see....
1. very expensive to make
2. chased away the female viewers right off the bat


I don't see how/why. You'd think that Lt. Scott (Brian Smith) went around with his shirt off enough in season 1 to hold the attention of some female viewers. And there was the love triangle between he, Cloe and Eli to generate a degree of romantic intrigue...shallow analysis, maybe - but the point remains such features were present to some degree. So I'd suggest "chased away" would be, at best, unfair.



3. chased off franchise fans mid way thru first season


I can see some truth in this comment...I was nearly among them. And, given what's happened to Stargate, I'm honestly sorry I didn't turn away. But I think there was an honest effort to try a new approach borrowing ideas and ultimately success from Battlestar Galactica.



4. fear of cancellation prompted TPTB to make it watchable


Not sure what this means....TV programs should always be "watchable"; else, what's the point? Why wasn't it "watchable" to start with? (i.e. I can't agree...)



5. the women and SG fans never looked back to realize it was the SG they grew up watching
6. the show is great now but the improvements in season 2 runs a risk of losing those fans that loved season 1


See above...



7. syfy can't make money


Sure it can! It just doesn't.



8. MGM had opportunity to profit share from sales of the original showings overseas and chose to stick it to syfy
9. Syfy dropped it


I dunno; I'm more inclined to blame MGM than SyFy because MGM got itself into it's own kettle of hot water financially thanks to the inept (mis)management of its leadership. However, SyFy obviously takes a share of the blame — to say how much, I'd need to spend more time studying the relationship between the two companies and I'm not that interested in the subject I'm very likely to do that....enough of my time's been wasted on Stargate Universe, I think.

Airlock
April 20th, 2011, 04:02 PM
okay, I don't mean this to be offensive in any way, but I noticed this during the live airing and during a few subsequent viewings: when the Destiny crew is first led into the village to meet the Descendants and Yazu invites Wray and company into his tent, just as Wray says "thank you" you can see what appears to be a mentally retarded person behind her.

Given that one of the themes of this episode is genetics and given the circumstances, it wouldn't be surprising to find some mutations, but I find it interesting the way it was presented to the viewer -- in the form of a background extra in a brief moment.

I don't believe this was an "equal opportunity casting" situation. I believe the use of the mentally retarded extra was a deliberate choice as a subliminal or subtle way of communicating the reality of genetic imperfections in a scenario such as the one facing the Destiny crew. The point hadn't been made directly in the use of dialogue, but rather in an offhanded way with a brief shot of a mentally retarded person. I found that both interesting and amusing. Did anyone else notice that?

Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble
April 20th, 2011, 04:11 PM
This was the best episode of the season IMO.

I think 80+ people is enough for a viable population but I have doubts.

And those two kids from the planet will be related to the entire crew as after those 2000 years everyone will share the same common ancestors. Even me and the whoever the poster above is will more that likely have common ancestors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Olson_(writer)

2000 years is a long time ago think how much we have advanced from the time of Christ. I did find it odd that it only took 10 years to build the village yet those people on the planet were there for 30 years yet were still living in tents.

carmencatalina
April 20th, 2011, 04:20 PM
okay, I don't mean this to be offensive in any way, but I noticed this during the live airing and during a few subsequent viewings: when the Destiny crew is first led into the village to meet the Descendants and Yazu invites Wray and company into his tent, just as Wray says "thank you" you can see what appears to be a mentally retarded person behind her.


Are you implying that there was an actor/actress with Down syndrome in the episode? Otherwise, I'm not sure what you mean by "appear to be mentally retarded". I didn't notice any such person.

FYI, Down syndrome is NOT caused by inbreeding. It is caused by a trisomy (an extra chromosome) of chromosome 21. It is more likely to occur in the children of older mothers (because their eggs are older and this apparently increases the chances of trisomies). It would NOT be more (or less) common in a population that had limited genetic diversity. Down syndrome children can be born to people who have no close genetic relationships at all - again, inbreeding and Down syndrome are two completely different issues.

There is a lot of misinformation regarding Down syndrome - if this is not what you meant, then I apologize, but I do my best to make people aware of the realities of genetics rather than spread further misinformation.

Airlock
April 20th, 2011, 04:37 PM
Are you implying that there was an actor/actress with Down syndrome in the episode? Otherwise, I'm not sure what you mean by "appear to be mentally retarded". I didn't notice any such person.

FYI, Down syndrome is NOT caused by inbreeding. It is caused by a trisomy (an extra chromosome) of chromosome 21. It is more likely to occur in the children of older mothers (because their eggs are older and this apparently increases the chances of trisomies). It would NOT be more (or less) common in a population that had limited genetic diversity. Down syndrome children can be born to people who have no close genetic relationships at all - again, inbreeding and Down syndrome are two completely different issues.

There is a lot of misinformation regarding Down syndrome - if this is not what you meant, then I apologize, but I do my best to make people aware of the realities of genetics rather than spread further misinformation.

thanks for the academic lesson, but i think you missed the point of my post. the rest of my post i made my point. I wasn't trying to mislead anyone. The point of my post was that if the director and producer were trying to showcase the very real possibility of retardation or 'down syndrome' or whatever you want to call it (debating the semantics isn't the point), then they chose an interesting way of communicating that. Just because YOU didn't notice it doesn't mean it wasn't there. And if you didn't notice it, than how can you call it down syndrome without even seeing what I'm talking about? The person I saw had none of the visual symptoms of down syndrome and yes, appeared mentally retarded. It's not meant to be cruel, it's just a simple observation -- one that I tested numerous times by watching the scene over and over again. It is most definitely a person with a mental disorder. And yes, I think that was a deliberate choice of casting (or acting) to subtly communicate genetic imperfection.

Shylodog
April 20th, 2011, 06:14 PM
I didn't see anyone with any form of mental or physical abnormalities behind Wray. I saw a man with very pronounced features saying hello or nodding to someone, but I would never have characterized him as you did. I think you may be a little too critical of other people's differences than your own. Your quick judgement of someone only given a second of airtime makes me want to make a quick judgement of you based on your singular comment above.

But...

I respectfully won't. I will simply say that I think you are sorely mistaken in your judgement.

LtColCarter
April 20th, 2011, 06:18 PM
I didn't see anyone with any form of mental or physical abnormalities behind Wray. I saw a man with very pronounced features saying hello or nodding to someone, but I would never have characterized him as you did. I think you may be a little too critical of other people's differences than your own. Your quick judgement of someone only given a second of airtime makes me want to make a quick judgement of you based on your singular comment above.

But...

I respectfully won't. I will simply say that I think you are sorely mistaken in your judgement.

I'm with ya on this one...I didn't see that either.

Ian-S
April 20th, 2011, 06:43 PM
I saw a guy who looked like a tall version of Rush.

Airlock
April 20th, 2011, 06:47 PM
I didn't see anyone with any form of mental or physical abnormalities behind Wray. I saw a man with very pronounced features saying hello or nodding to someone, but I would never have characterized him as you did. I think you may be a little too critical of other people's differences than your own. Your quick judgement of someone only given a second of airtime makes me want to make a quick judgement of you based on your singular comment above.

But...

I respectfully won't. I will simply say that I think you are sorely mistaken in your judgement.

oh please, this isn't me being critical or insensitive. you can't say anything these days without people demanding political correctness or skewing someones words for their own benefit or interpretation.

i observed something and i'm asking if others observed it as well. if not, fine. i didn't pass judgment on the person. you all obviously missed my point and it sounds like you're going out of your way to criticise me for something i never implied. YOU are the one passing judgment here. i had a legitimate observation and a legitimate point and i wasn't trying to make a statement, unlike yourself.

geddarkstorm
April 20th, 2011, 06:49 PM
On the subject of them speaking english, remember that they had the kino footage and presumably all learned it in 'school'. That footage would crystallize that civilization that grew up around it.

Yeah, that's still just a hand wave, but makes it completely plausible. It's one thing to translate old, important books into a new language as time goes, but can't do that with footage.

Kinda sad that Novus had apparently been destroyed. So many possibilities... But this is typical of all stargate (something really cool is hinted at or found and immediately taken away).

Shylodog
April 20th, 2011, 06:54 PM
I saw a guy who looked like a tall version of Rush.

I saw him too... lol.

Just as Wray and Co. were entering the camp, he was about midway on the screen on the left.

Shylodog
April 20th, 2011, 07:04 PM
oh please, this isn't me being critical or insensitive. you can't say anything these days without people demanding political correctness or skewing someones words for their own benefit or interpretation.
This absolutely was you being critical. You said you saw a mentally retarded person behind Wray. And you KNEW your post wouldn't be received well, because you started it with, "I don't mean for this to sound offensive...".

Get over yourself.


i observed something and i'm asking if others observed it as well. if not, fine. i didn't pass judgment on the person. you all obviously missed my point and it sounds like you're going out of your way to criticise me for something i never implied. YOU are the one passing judgment here. i had a legitimate observation and a legitimate point and i wasn't trying to make a statement, unlike yourself.

I'm not going out of my way. I'm calling you on the somewhat offensive way you presented your observation. You saw someone who looked different than what you would consider "normal" and called him mentally retarded. I kind of took offense, but was trying to be less critical than you. But since you KNEW you were trying to ruffle feathers, now you're getting defensive. It's all good.

Airlock
April 20th, 2011, 07:07 PM
I saw him too... lol.

Just as Wray and Co. were entering the camp, he was about midway on the screen on the left.

When the episode comes out on hulu i'll post the exact time the person appears. I watched it on On Demand several times, but I can't get a time read-out. Needless to say, I watched that scene many times and I'm convinced there is a guy with a mental disorder -- or at least looks like he has a mental disorder. It could be real or it could just be acting, but it's not normal. I wouldn't highlight this as anything significant if it were under different circumstances. Genetics was a theme in this episode so if indeed that person had genetic abnormalities or some brand of retardation I find that interesting that briefly through a background 'extra' is how the director/producers chose to communicate the genetic imperfection aspect of seeding a civilization.

Shylodog
April 20th, 2011, 07:13 PM
We were talking about the Rush look-alike there.

Airlock
April 20th, 2011, 07:21 PM
This absolutely was you being critical. You said you saw a mentally retarded person behind Wray. And you KNEW your post wouldn't be received well, because you started it with, "I don't mean for this to sound offensive...".

Get over yourself.


I'm not going out of my way. I'm calling you on the somewhat offensive way you presented your observation. You saw someone who looked different than what you would consider "normal" and called him mentally retarded. I kind of took offense, but was trying to be less critical than you. But since you KNEW you were trying to ruffle feathers, now you're getting defensive. It's all good.


The point wasn't that they looked different than me. I didn't point it out simply because "oh that person looks retarded, hahaha, let me point that on the forum." My point was that if that person had a mental disorder (in actuality or if it was just acted), it was an unusual way for the director/producers to communicate the genetic imperfection aspect of breeding a new population -- through the subtle use of a background extra. The person really did appear mentally retarded to me. Watching it again, I'm still convinced he is. It's not a judgment. It's an observation. I'm not making any commentary on the person that appears to have a disorder. I'm making a comment about the directors and producers that may have used him for subtle storytelling purposes. I'm not trying to be funny. I'm not responsible for you getting offended. You are misinterpreting my entire point. If you don't like the use of the words "mentally retarded" than substitute it with the phrase of your choice. It won't change my overall point.

Shylodog
April 20th, 2011, 07:21 PM
Ok, NOW I see who you are talking about. At 14:40, it's a younger male. He does look slack-jawed, but not mentally disabled to me. And that would be because I had a step-brother who looked exactly like that.

AND, I'm man enough to admit I was overbearing in my response to you. I was looking at a completely different guy the first couple of run throughs. But please, in the future, you may want to use "mentally disabled" or just "disabled" instead of retarded. You'd get a lot less knee-jerk replies in the future, I'd bet.

Airlock
April 20th, 2011, 07:32 PM
buying common descent on itunes right now. i will give you the exact time the background extra in question appears.

Airlock
April 20th, 2011, 07:35 PM
Ok, NOW I see who you are talking about. At 14:40, it's a younger male. He does look slack-jawed, but not mentally disabled to me. And that would be because I had a step-brother who looked exactly like that.

AND, I'm man enough to admit I was overbearing in my response to you. I was looking at a completely different guy the first couple of run throughs. But please, in the future, you may want to use "mentally disabled" or just "disabled" instead of retarded. You'd get a lot less knee-jerk replies in the future, I'd bet.

it's right as Wray says "thank you" as Yazu is leading everyone into his tent.

but do you see my point? that's how it came off to me (a little more than just slack jawed) and if this episode's storyline didn't have anything to do with genetics and population foundation then it wouldn't be significant. but in this case it may have been directly tied to the main story -- just in the background.

i will use safer terminology next time.

garhkal
April 20th, 2011, 08:51 PM
okay, I don't mean this to be offensive in any way, but I noticed this during the live airing and during a few subsequent viewings: when the Destiny crew is first led into the village to meet the Descendants and Yazu invites Wray and company into his tent, just as Wray says "thank you" you can see what appears to be a mentally retarded person behind her.
Did anyone else notice that?

Nope.. Will have to rewatch it a few times to pick up on it.

Airlock
April 20th, 2011, 09:04 PM
Nope.. Will have to rewatch it a few times to pick up on it.

by ignoring the rest of my initial post and taking my question at the end and inserting it at the end of my first paragraph you are quoting me terribly out of context.

i've already unintentionally offended a couple people and the way you quoted me will just inflame the situation further.

i don't want that to happen.

it occurs at 14:40 through 14:42 of the episode behind Wray. The ONLY reason why i bring this up is because it may be a small tid bit of information fed to us by the director and producers via a background extra. The significance would be that perhaps there were some genetic imperfections that the director wanted to show on screen to subtly communicate that the foundation of their population was difficult or that it isn't without it's fair share of genetic mutations and still maybe not quite there.

Shylodog
April 20th, 2011, 09:28 PM
by ignoring the rest of my initial post and taking my question at the end and inserting it at the end of my first paragraph you are quoting me terribly out of context.

i've already unintentionally offended a couple people and the way you quoted me will just inflame the situation further.

i don't want that to happen.

Just to be clear, I wasn't offended as I didn't take it personally, I just thought it was offensive given the guy I thought you were talking about and I just couldn't connect the dots. Though overall I felt you could have worded it better as well, but I'm nobody's grammar police.

At this point, I think we all understand what you were saying and the misunderstanding was completely on my part. No worries here.

Pharaoh Atem
April 20th, 2011, 09:29 PM
3 - I repeat, THREE - episodes to go. :danielanime08:

nooooo

Airlock
April 20th, 2011, 09:36 PM
does anyone have any theories as to what Chloe and Wray were giggling over in the beginning regarding the purple fruit? I know I've got some not so PG-13 ideas...

clearly came off as an exclusively feminine sensation.

Shylodog
April 20th, 2011, 09:41 PM
does anyone have any theories as to what Chloe and Wray were giggling over in the beginning regarding the purple fruit? I know I've got some not so PG-13 ideas...

clearly came off as an exclusively feminine sensation.

Exactly what I took away from it. Especially when Eli kept pressing for an explanation, and Chloe looked like a deer in the headlights when she realized she may actually have to explain it to him.

Elite Anubis Guard
April 21st, 2011, 12:21 AM
Wow. What a fantastic episode. This is a story I feel only SGU could have pulled off in the Stargate franchise. And obviously we're now stuck with these guys for, at least, the next episode. Very classic Stargate but at the same time, something about only SGUs-style shone through.

Was quite a sight, the city at the end, so advanced and big yet empty. Absolutely loved it. Makes me even sadder about the cancellation.

RamblerReb
April 21st, 2011, 01:14 AM
I haven't read this whole thread, but did anyone else notice that that old guy(the leader of the village, I guess) sounded just like James Tolkan (Principal Strickland from Back to the Future)?

Egle01
April 21st, 2011, 02:27 AM
Did anyone notice Young's finger at about 33:35

WTFIt's been visible several times before.

Shak53
April 21st, 2011, 03:45 AM
I used to be mildly annoyed over people who seem to despise this particular series in the franchise. As of this particular episode, I find that this show has gone downhill. It's like the writers aren't even trying. They come up with a concept they like which might actually work and then they screw up the details. It really annoys me when a good idea is ruined like that.

A lot of the problems have already been discussed with this board, but the one in particular has only been just touched upon but it was the element that bothered me the most. I just could not suspend disbelief because of it. It's the concept that after 2000 years nothing changes aside from the immediate setting. I call bullocks.

It started when they first got onto the planet. We find two individuals who somehow were able to speak the exact same form of English as the crew of the Destiny. The Stargate franchise has always had that issue, but at least the off-world cultures often had certain cultural phrases and symbols that distracted me from that little glitch. It bothered me this time because, despite lame protestations that the culture didn't have anything for the language to be influenced by (that's ridiculous - languages do evolve without the aid of borrowing from other cultures - slang is one such manner, but they did have exposure to other cultures - Lucian alliance, Wray's Asian ancestry, Ancient).

I could cope with that if it were the only flaw, but the flaw extends to other areas. Let's look at these two characters. Even before understanding what this episode was about, I observed that the girl looked remarkably like Chloe and the boy looked like the Lieutenant. It's not outside the realm of probability that this would occur, but it's a pretty damn remote probability when you consider both the length of time and the variety of genetic matches possible from the old Destiny crew. I simply don't buy it.

Then, we have the dude who looked like an Indian. We are obviously supposed to understand that he's Wray's descendent. That's fine. At least, he didn't look like the major characters. The problem with him is his skepticism. He sounds *exactly* like most of the major characters regarding the existence of hell and evil spirits. Are we really supposed to understand that the defacto spokesman for that civilization would coincidentally have the exact same attitude as Eli, Young, and most of the other crew? I guess I can believe that if there weren't for all the other common elements. This is obviously the writer's attempt to evangelize their point of view. That's fine, but when he spoke about the two younger characters as "unenlightened", well, look, obviously, Rush isn't a demon, but if any of you were to have your deeply held beliefs characterized in that fashion, would you not at least feel insulted? How about just in general. If someone presumes to speak for you in an insulting manner to others, would that not at least irritate you? I would not want such a person speaking on my behalf and I've never heard of any individual who would. Are we supposed to believe that they just stand there meekly and not even lift an eyebrow? or look askance or say *anything*? Even after Rush left the room? Sorry, I don't buy it. It's not about whether they are right in their beliefs. It's about what would make sense. Human beings don't typically take such belittlement in stride.

The political tensions on Novus. Am I supposed to really believe that there is such a lack of nuance and variety in a population of millions? I understand elucidating the dominant strains, but after two THOUSAND years, I don't buy that they would revolve their dominant political ideologies around something that happened so long ago. If this was supposed to be some half-hearted tack against "the Christian Right" in politics, it's a really laughable attempt since I really don't see that political ideas are centered around Jesus' return or whether he's a good person, even amongst the evangelicals. If anything, Christian political ideas folllow through more on the classical liberal tradition (right to life and property), so the equivalence completely fails. I'm sorry. I don't buy it. In the 2000 years, there'd be more pressing concerns (like economics, crime, health care, families, you know, the nitty gritty of life). I suppose I'm supposed to believe that Eli and Rush pose as Saviour or Scribe figures, even though there's no way (esp. with Keno technology) I can believe that they would write something along the same lines as the book of Genesis or Deuteronomy or even the gospel of John.

Also, we come to the basis for Eli's enthusiasm over meeting these people. He claimed at the lunch table that they "ARE us". Um, no. He believes that they have their understanding, to which TJ said that they also have their disagreements. There are a couple of problems with that. The first is along the same lines as the above paragraph. The second is this. Think about it. Compare yourselves to your parents. I'm sure that you have much in common with them, but I bet you could point out MANY areas where you differ from both in relation to personal beliefs and values, or even general personality and temperament.You see, while the people of Novus may have come from the other Destiny crew, they also come from the family of the Destiny crew. They may have inherited some characteristics of Eli's Mom, for example, that he did not attain himself and that we don't see at all otherwise. As well, having a sense of understanding is not something you inherit. It's something you learn growing up. There may be some genetic elements that might make you more amenable to learning this lesson, but Mr. Eli, it doesn't always work out that way. It's complicated how we develop as we age. A lot of characteristics interact with each other in unexpected ways. You have the phenomenon of recessive attributes becoming more dominant in certain populations as they become more genetically linked, as well as the impact of environment on how the children develop and what genetic predispositions are activated and to what degree. No doubt, the phenomenon of being raised on a different planet with different living conditions but coming from a strain of people that are unique (probably tougher, smarter, and stronger) from the rest of the Earth population would change them. The truth: the people of Novus are not them. So, I completely couldn't buy what he was saying.

So, yes, I couldn't buy this episode. I think all this egoist self-adulation "they are us" nonsense is too annoying. It is the *worst* episode I've ever seen. I only hope the second part explains away some of my issues.

The writers have a problem with how they express their ideas. What they need is somebody to come up with the good ideas and another competent individual who can flesh it out in a way that is actually believable.

RamblerReb
April 21st, 2011, 03:56 AM
... the gag with the name of the Rush-worshipers' country? I am not sure if it was intentional or not, but the double-bubble Lincoln Futura was the 1961 show car that the basis for the original Batmobile. I can't believe it was a coincidence, personally, although preeeeetty obscure.

Nth Chevron
April 21st, 2011, 03:58 AM
I can safely say i did not.

Although i had no clue it was a reference no matter how obscure lol

N.C

morrismike
April 21st, 2011, 04:00 AM
When the episode comes out on hulu i'll post the exact time the person appears. I watched it on On Demand several times, but I can't get a time read-out. Needless to say, I watched that scene many times and I'm convinced there is a guy with a mental disorder -- or at least looks like he has a mental disorder. It could be real or it could just be acting, but it's not normal. I wouldn't highlight this as anything significant if it were under different circumstances. Genetics was a theme in this episode so if indeed that person had genetic abnormalities or some brand of retardation I find that interesting that briefly through a background 'extra' is how the director/producers chose to communicate the genetic imperfection aspect of seeding a civilization.
There are a lot of people on the show already with mental disorders (Rush sociopathy, Cloe infactuatrous, etc.), another one isn't a big deal.

Shadow_7
April 21st, 2011, 04:06 AM
2000 years really isn't that long IMO. Genetically anyway. If you look at Kings and Queens and the inbreeding of sorts involved in royalty begatting royalty. It's more liklely to have hemophilia versus down syndrome. Baring some genetic experiments of course. But then again with binary pulsar radiation, background radiation, and other things...

caribsci
April 21st, 2011, 09:44 AM
really good episode and i'm gonna say this.We gripe and moan about english speaking aliens and how different SGU is to the previous series but, is it a coincidence that imo the best episode this season involved english speaking aliens needing to be rescued?bottom line is ,interaction with humanoid aliens is what makes us wanna watch.

LtColCarter
April 21st, 2011, 10:11 AM
really good episode and i'm gonna say this.We gripe and moan about english speaking aliens and how different SGU is to the previous series but, is it a coincidence that imo the best episode this season involved english speaking aliens needing to be rescued?bottom line is ,interaction with humanoid aliens is what makes us wanna watch.

But were they really aliens? ;)

Skiznot
April 21st, 2011, 10:13 AM
really good episode and i'm gonna say this.We gripe and moan about english speaking aliens and how different SGU is to the previous series but, is it a coincidence that imo the best episode this season involved english speaking aliens needing to be rescued?bottom line is ,interaction with humanoid aliens is what makes us wanna watch.

Not me. Creative non human Aliens that have very different motivations that we have to try to figure out makes me want to watch. You don't speak for "us." I did like this episode because of the cool time paradox idea and because it grew out of episodes that have gone before. In fact I wish they had changed their English to be hard to understand because it would probably change a lot after 2000 years. Either that or make it more like 300 years.

jsonitsac
April 21st, 2011, 10:14 AM
This one seemed like it would be a throwback to old style stargate. Luckily it wasn't. Sure it had the elements-a semi-primitive human civilization living off of Earth. However, to me that's where the parallels end. I think they did a masterful job blending it with SGU's arcs and gray area morality. While I would like to say that if more episodes had been like this one early on SGU wouldn't be in as much trouble as it is, I can't, mainly because those earlier episodes were what helped to build to this.

LtColCarter
April 21st, 2011, 10:14 AM
It was a good episode people...quit nit-pickin'!

caribsci
April 21st, 2011, 10:27 AM
Not me. Creative non human Aliens that have very different motivations that we have to try to figure out makes me want to watch.

and yet its the humanoid type or humans who cause the most conflict.

Skiznot
April 21st, 2011, 10:31 AM
This was the best episode of the season IMO.


2000 years is a long time ago think how much we have advanced from the time of Christ. I did find it odd that it only took 10 years to build the village yet those people on the planet were there for 30 years yet were still living in tents.

I wondered if the number 2000 was selected specifically for it's relationship with Christian mythology. If it was 300 years the destiny would have just been ancestors, by 600 legends perhaps but after 2000 enough time has past for some to see destiny folks as almost gods/demons. I think this story line can go on way longer than 2 episodes and be really compelling.

LtColCarter
April 21st, 2011, 10:59 AM
I wondered if the number 2000 was selected specifically for it's relationship with Christian mythology. If it was 300 years the destiny would have just been ancestors, by 600 legends perhaps but after 2000 enough time has past for some to see destiny folks as almost gods/demons. I think this story line can go on way longer than 2 episodes and be really compelling.

I concur

Kilgharrah
April 21st, 2011, 11:00 AM
I wondered if the number 2000 was selected specifically for it's relationship with Christian mythology. If it was 300 years the destiny would have just been ancestors, by 600 legends perhaps but after 2000 enough time has past for some to see destiny folks as almost gods/demons. I think this story line can go on way longer than 2 episodes and be really compelling.
Why would it be something religious????
I think that they chose the number 2000 just to make them advanced enough to help Destiny. Imagine what we would be in 2000 years. That's what they are. SG is about science. I know they discussed the ideas of false Gods but still.

Ser Scot A Ellison
April 21st, 2011, 12:40 PM
Lt.Col. JohnS.,


you see if they started doing more episodes like this in the opening days of universe, it probably would've been successful.

Yes, never try anything new. That's the recipe for good speculative fiction.

LtColCarter
April 21st, 2011, 12:48 PM
Lt.Col. JohnS.,



Yes, never try anything new. That's the recipe for good speculative fiction.

Trying new things is good...but not when its an extreme departure from what SG fans have grown used to.

Ser Scot A Ellison
April 21st, 2011, 12:57 PM
LtColCarter,


Trying new things is good...but not when its an extreme departure from what SG fans have grown used to.

Good grief. SGU is some of the best drama, story, and characterization we've seen in Spec. Fiction TV. It's up there with BSG the reboot. I find it rather sad that fans of the other two series couldn't embrace the new and appreciate how good SGU was rather than demanding the same old sctick they were used to.

LtColCarter
April 21st, 2011, 01:03 PM
LtColCarter,



Good grief. SGU is some of the best drama, story, and characterization we've seen in Spec. Fiction TV. It's up there with BSG the reboot. I find it rather sad that fans of the other two series couldn't embrase the new and appreciate how good SGU was rather than demanding the same old sctick they were used to.

Grief may be good for you...but I prefer to stay happy. :) Anyway...I was excited by SGU. However, I didn't want to watch another incarnation of BSG. I couldn't stand the series because it was a soap opera in space. If I wanted to watch a soap...I'd set my DVR to record them during the day. As SGU's season 1 progressed...the show got better. I was ready to hang it up after the first half of the season, but stayed with it...and it got better. As I said, new things are good...but not when they're such an extreme departure from what we're used to. I ask you this, if it was some of the "best drama, story, and characterization"...why did it get cancelled mid-way through its 2nd season?

I'm not SGU bashing...just asking a question...because I do like the show. I just don't like it to the extent that some of you guys seem to.

Ser Scot A Ellison
April 21st, 2011, 02:35 PM
LtColCarter,

Because, apparently, not enough people agreed with me. I still say it has been a great show despite the grumblings of people regarding its departure from the "Stargate formula". I watched SG1 and SGA only sporadically becuase I dislike the one hour reboot new problem to overcome in one hour formula applied quite frequently on those shows. I came on board because I liked SG:U. I liked the serial nature. I liked the focus on character. I liked the moral greyness of the characters they introduced. I'm disappointed to see SG:U ending after only two seasons, but thems the breaks.

carmencatalina
April 21st, 2011, 02:49 PM
As I said, new things are good...but not when they're such an extreme departure from what we're used to. I ask you this, if it was some of the "best drama, story, and characterization"...why did it get cancelled mid-way through its 2nd season?


Well, obviously, because the average viewer doesn't have the same taste as me! (And I suppose we can extrapolate about me or the average viewer if you like, or not.)

I said this before, it is like capers. I love capers, there are many great dishes that contain capers. But many people don't like capers.

It is just my bad luck that what I love (capers, SGU) is not popular.

And what I don't like (PEEPS*, wrestling) is popular.

*One of my students brought a package of PEEPS to class to share. I will try not to hold it against her come grading time!

LtColCarter
April 21st, 2011, 04:01 PM
LtColCarter,

Because, apparently, not enough people agreed with me. I still say it has been a great show despite the grumblings of people regarding its departure from the "Stargate formula". I watched SG1 and SGA only sporadically becuase I dislike the one hour reboot new problem to overcome in one hour formula applied quite frequently on those shows. I came on board because I liked SG:U. I liked the serial nature. I liked the focus on character. I liked the moral greyness of the characters they introduced. I'm disappointed to see SG:U ending after only two seasons, but thems the breaks.

If it was less BSG like...then I think we wouldn't have had this issue. Like I said...I didn't start liking the show until the 2nd half of the 1st season. I'm disappointed to see SGU end, but I am disappointed because there will be no Stargate on TV.


Well, obviously, because the average viewer doesn't have the same taste as me! (And I suppose we can extrapolate about me or the average viewer if you like, or not.)

I said this before, it is like capers. I love capers, there are many great dishes that contain capers. But many people don't like capers.

It is just my bad luck that what I love (capers, SGU) is not popular.

And what I don't like (PEEPS*, wrestling) is popular.

*One of my students brought a package of PEEPS to class to share. I will try not to hold it against her come grading time!

We all have our likes and dislikes...its what makes the world go 'round. As a teacher, I would hope that a student bringing in food you dislike wouldn't affect his/her grade.

traylormatt
April 21st, 2011, 04:01 PM
I noticed something. I have already posted this in another thread but will quickly mention it here. Does anyone else think maybe they used the gate as a source of power whilst they were originally building Novas? Clearly the gate has some kind of power source as it is not getting it from a DHD and I can not imagine the remotes store the power for the gate. And Eli plugs the Kino remote into the gate so I think maybe they could bring the power from the gate to help create energy once they are at a stage to utalise such a thing.

LtColCarter
April 21st, 2011, 04:02 PM
I noticed something. I have already posted this in another thread but will quickly mention it here. Does anyone else think maybe they used the gate as a source of power whilst they were originally building Novas? Clearly the gate has some kind of power source as it is not getting it from a DHD and I can not imagine the remotes store the power for the gate. And Eli plugs the Kino remote into the gate so I think maybe they could bring the power from the gate to help create energy once they are at a stage to utalise such a thing.

That's not too far fetched. So, I could see it as a possibility.

traylormatt
April 21st, 2011, 04:04 PM
That's not too far fetched. So, I could see it as a possibility.

Why thank you. I try to be as close fetched as possible.

LtColCarter
April 21st, 2011, 04:05 PM
Why thank you. I try to be as close fetched as possible.

:lol:

garhkal
April 21st, 2011, 04:37 PM
by ignoring the rest of my initial post and taking my question at the end and inserting it at the end of my first paragraph you are quoting me terribly out of context.

i've already unintentionally offended a couple .

I didn't intend to offend with how i cut out some of your post.. Sorry.


I wondered if the number 2000 was selected specifically for it's relationship with Christian mythology. If it was 300 years the destiny would have just been ancestors, by 600 legends perhaps but after 2000 enough time has past for some to see destiny folks as almost gods/demons. I think this story line can go on way longer than 2 episodes and be really compelling.

I wonder if there will be something in the upcomming ep(s) that explains that in any way..


I noticed something. I have already posted this in another thread but will quickly mention it here. Does anyone else think maybe they used the gate as a source of power whilst they were originally building Novas? Clearly the gate has some kind of power source as it is not getting it from a DHD and I can not imagine the remotes store the power for the gate. And Eli plugs the Kino remote into the gate so I think maybe they could bring the power from the gate to help create energy once they are at a stage to utalise such a thing.

More than likely.. Though what did they have to power??
Other than a kino, some ipods, a few laptops... what else did they have/make in that first few generations that would have needed power?

As a linked q.. Do you think they did any gate travel during those early years?

traylormatt
April 21st, 2011, 04:48 PM
More than likely.. Though what did they have to power??
Other than a kino, some ipods, a few laptops... what else did they have/make in that first few generations that would have needed power?

As a linked q.. Do you think they did any gate travel during those early years?

I am not sure what they would need to power. Something where they may need to run an electrical current through something? isn't there e method of extracting copper or some metal from water or something by running a current? It really depends on what they can produce from what is around. All I mean is if they get to a point where they can produce something that may need electricty, they can get it.

And I definitely think they would have gated to other worlds to start off with, though what interests me more is why when they decided to divide into two seperate factions, why did they not THEN build a second settlement on a different planet? Get everyone to help pitch in and build a new colony where they end up building the new colony? Then each side could have had a planet to themselves. I know it would have been a lot of work but still.

Shadow_7
April 21st, 2011, 09:17 PM
I am not sure what they would need to power.

I don't think that they'd need much power those first ten years either. Unless someone brought a bug zapper or something. They'd probably find more use for a giant, near perfect wheel that spins, than the power that powers the wheel.

boeli
April 22nd, 2011, 02:13 AM
the best on SGU so far, the should have done more.

LtColCarter
April 22nd, 2011, 07:53 AM
the best on SGU so far, the should have done more.

That they should have....

Shadow_7
April 22nd, 2011, 08:43 PM
Is this the first episode since Icarus boarded Destiny that Camile Wray has left Destiny to go planet side? Seems like it is for some reason.

Captain James
April 22nd, 2011, 09:02 PM
Not a bad episode

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
April 22nd, 2011, 09:19 PM
Is this the first episode since Icarus boarded Destiny that Camile Wray has left Destiny to go planet side? Seems like it is for some reason.

not counting using the stones? yes this is the first time camile has gone off-world.

garhkal
April 23rd, 2011, 12:13 AM
I thought she went off world in time, life, and faith

Khentkawes
April 23rd, 2011, 01:44 AM
Just watched this episode (I've been behind for a while) and loved it! But now that has made me sad all over again that we only have three more episodes. :(

Still, awesome episode. Probably my favorite part of SGU is how Destiny serves as a mirror for society so that the writers can raise questions about ethics, politics, religion, etc. Now, they take Destiny's little sample of Earth society and extrapolate an entire new society from that sample. That's fascinating! It was interesting to see how little pieces of Destiny's culture became integral to their descendants, including the same disagreements and differences that have always made it difficult for the crew to form a cohesive community.

And dang, I love this show. :)

Still sad, though. :(

Egle01
April 23rd, 2011, 01:49 AM
I thought she went off world in time, life, and faithNope. Never saw her in "Time", just used the stones in "Life" and stayed on Destiny in "Faith".

garhkal
April 23rd, 2011, 05:37 PM
Damn.. Wonder why she has never left before?

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
April 23rd, 2011, 10:49 PM
Damn.. Wonder why she has never left before?

cause she is an IOA Representive.

themyst
April 23rd, 2011, 10:50 PM
I liked this episode, but where was Varro? :(

General Jumper One
April 23rd, 2011, 10:54 PM
I liked this episode, but where was Varro? :(

He was MIE (missing in episode)

morrismike
April 24th, 2011, 06:16 AM
He was MIE (missing in episode)
On a ship with 80 people I wouldn't expect too much focus on him. After all he's nothing but a enemy redshirt.

morrismike
April 24th, 2011, 06:17 AM
cause she is an IOA Representive.

I'll bite, what is this supposed to mean?

themyst
April 24th, 2011, 06:33 AM
On a ship with 80 people I wouldn't expect too much focus on him. After all he's nothing but a enemy redshirt.

Oh, but I disagree. Red shirts don't get that much screen time and dialogue, do they?

I really don't understand why they write him in so much to the point where the episode seems to revolve around him, and then totally ignore him as if he doesn't exist in subsequent episodes. I would just prefer more consistency with his character, that's all.

morrismike
April 24th, 2011, 06:53 AM
Oh, but I disagree. Red shirts don't get that much screen time and dialogue, do they?

I really don't understand why they write him in so much to the point where the episode seems to revolve around him, and then totally ignore him as if he doesn't exist in subsequent episodes. I would just prefer more consistency with his character, that's all.
He's had all of 5 minutes of dialog in all of season 2????????????

themyst
April 24th, 2011, 07:36 AM
He's had all of 5 minutes of dialog in all of season 2????????????

Well as the episodes are only about 43 minutes long and there are quite a few main characters to begin with, you could probably say that about a lot of the crew. I'm looking at air time. How about the first couple of episodes when he first appeared and him and TJ were obviously checking each other out? And then he was helping her in the infirmary - then in another episode he helped with instructions on how to diffuse the bomb on earth - then of course there was The Hunt episode. I think just the appearances I could recall off the top of my head would disqualify him as being called a red shirt.

The Destiny
April 24th, 2011, 08:37 AM
I guess he's a recurring, like Becker and Riley are/were, or recurring like Wray is ( she quite often doesn't show up in the episode at all. For example I believe she wasn't in Hope and Seizure ) and like dr. Weir in SGA.

Stormtrooper
April 24th, 2011, 08:38 AM
I really liked this one.

10/10

Shadow_7
April 24th, 2011, 09:37 AM
I thought she went off world in time, life, and faith

In light she was on the shuttle. But I don't recall her leaving destiny for anything. (didn't want to be left behind?) In faith she stayed ship side. Commenting on it was a mistake NOT to go. Life was her earthside via stones. She probably has the most stone time of any of the crew. But outside of the shuttle in light, she hasn't physically left the ship. Until now. Even in the LA episodes, she was still on ship playing doctor, while everyone else got evicted planet side for the most part.

garhkal
April 24th, 2011, 03:00 PM
cause she is an IOA Representive.

SO.. what's that have to do with going planet side?

The Destiny
April 25th, 2011, 09:33 AM
Those are supposed to sit behind a desk, not go through a gate ;) General hammond only went through the gate in SG-1 season 7 IIRC. and similarly I believe Woolseys first time through the gate was only in season 9 of SG-1.

They prefer desks to wormholes ;)

xxxevilgrinxxx
April 25th, 2011, 02:12 PM
Divided. Again.

It's not often that you can see all of your ideas and decisions play out over thousands of years. Fortunately, we have science fiction, and 'meeting the descendants/ancestors' is a standard science fiction offering.

From season 1, the divisions that have existed amongst the crew developed and became sharpest in the episode “Divided”. While there were variations and degrees, the crew fell along two sides: those that chose to follow Young and those that chose to follow Rush.

Those divisions weren't simply a matter of whether one belonged to the military or the civilians, but deepened to a way of looking at the basic questions of life, the mission at hand, and the future. In 2000 years, the alternate crew of the Destiny has had a lot of time to allow those divisions to solidify and grow large over the years and in this way, show the current crew of the Destiny how all of their viewpoints and beliefs could play out over time for both good and ill.

Like the current crew of the Destiny, the Novans are also essentially 'good', although not as good as they'd like to be. They have the luxury of eliding over the less perfect aspects of their ancestors, elevating them to the status of perfect, heroic and noble beings. In this way, the Novans deal with the original Destiny crew much in the way that people from earth dealt with the Ancients, and I believe that is the point we are supposed to take away from this episode. That we are the descendants of the Ancients, looking back on what was best and filtering out the less flattering. Through the years, we played the biggest game of telephone, with the 'story' changing over the years, to the point where, if the original story appeared, we would scarcely recognize it.

Still, there are some things that remain unchanged and it is in the core elements of the characters, of the 'sides', which became the political realities, that we see a reflection of 'Young' and 'Rush'.

Young's people created a home, Tinerra, in lieu of the one they would never be able to reach. They built a community with some enviable qualities, voiced by the settlers on the new planet when they increased their own hardship in order to help the Destiny crew. They have technological advancement but it hasn't overwhelmed their essential humanity. Those that lined up behind Young, both during “Divide” and now, tend to view the mission as getting home first, wherever that home ends up being located. This group looks towards itself, to its humanness, to further their survival and community.

While Alternate Rush never made it onto Novus, he is there fully in spirit. It is Rush's people that view the mission as more science and technology based. They look outward rather than to each other, waiting for Rush and the Destiny to come back and save them. In Futura, Brody and those that make up the Rush viewpoint have put their hopes in a man they have, by turns, deified and demonized. Rush becomes a near-god figure, and while they appear to worship his dream, they fear him and what he's imagined to be capable of. Not alone in vilification, Eli joins Rush, as the man responsible for stranding the alternate crew, through his star-dialling. In short, a society where technological advances are something to strive for, and something to fear.

Seeing these divisions play out in their alternates isn't easy for some of the crew. Rush, Brody and Eli seem especially troubled about the actions and beliefs of the alternates. In Twin Destinies, Eli took responsibility for the actions that led to the “deaths” of the other crew. To find that they lived is a wonderful thing but in the ongoing condemnation for the action, it is another stark reminder that science has consequences.

Both Brody and Eli have, by turns, supported “Young's side” and “Rush's side” depending on what they believed was right at the time but Brody seems to be quiet and reserved about having created, in essence, a society that deified Rush, in the hope that Rush would come back for them all. It must feel awkward now. And of course there's that name Futura. A font, of all things. Not that Novus Mundus is much better.

Rush appears to be the most deeply affected. Having never made it to the planet, it is the 'idea' of Rush and what people thought of him that made it there. Unlike the others, he never gets to see his children, never gets to see what he's created, only what's created in his name, and it doesn't sit well with him. While there are lines scattered throughout the episode about not telling Rush that he was a god, I believe the idea of deification would offend him, given his own ideas on such matters. To be seen as a demon isn't much better and, just as Eli is served a constant reminder of his blame in stranding them all, in demonizing Rush, it's a continued reminder that he's not to be trusted, that his motives and actions are questionable and that, finally, in putting their faith in Rush returning for them, he has let them down again.

It isn't all uncomfortable, however. To survive, to make a home, a community, is a wonderful outcome for people that will never reach Earth. The simple delight from people like Eli, Wray, Scott and Greer at having children, families, was touching and sincere. It is human nature to want to leave something behind, some mark that we were here. The current crew fit in well with their descendants and even with the passing of so much time, the essence of what they are and what they believe remains true. In wanting to save the Novans, and in the pure joy at being rescued, it's proof that the two groups haven't changed in this regard.

The most wonderful development is the renewed relationship between Young and TJ, or at least their alternates. For whatever reason, Varro is nowhere to be found and TJ and Young have picked up where they left off, having the first child born on Novus. Getting to see their relationship, even an alternate relationship, is a powerful moment for the two on Destiny, given the loss of their first child. With the first pregnancy, Young had so much on his plate that he wasn't there for TJ. Not yet divorced, he was distant and later, so torn up that TJ turned to another man, Varro. But TJ loved him for some reason and I believe that in getting to Novus, she found that again; she got to see Young as a better man and for both of them on the ship getting to watch this play out, it will be sure to have consequences, as their feelings for each other have remained strong.

It is this idea of Young as a better man that affects not only TJ and their relationship but the colony as a whole and it can be summed up quite well by Young himself:

YOUNG: I remember when we first came here was ... well, it feels like a long time ago now ... we had *very* little. It was really hard, but I think it brought us together. Everything we have here, we built with our own hands. And now we stand at a precipice. Some of us want to divide. Sure, yes, we have our issues and we have our differences, but we can't lose perspective. As your leader, I may not have been perfect, I know that, but I know that I tried my best and that I persevered. Now, as a group, we will survive. We will prosper as long as we can remember above anything else that we need each other, and we need to *help* each other.

These words resonate with Young, which is clear in his expression but what he wants to do and what he's able to do are very different things. This is an echo of the stairway speech from season one, where he presses the frightened survivors that they will make it if they stick together. This is Young at his best and is true of a great deal of what drives Young – that he is hopeful and good but not stupidly so.
It is perhaps fortunate that the choice is taken out of his hands by the actions of the drones and that the crew must take on the alternates as it forces Young to remain true to those principles. When Scott and Eli find a way to call the Destiny, Young isn't left with the worst choice but can do what I believe his heart would do and while the Novans have perhaps had their visions of a perfect leader dashed, in the end, he still did what was right.

Lastly, a note on filming locations. A set could have easily have been created somewhere but in choosing the real life location of Fort Langley to film the “Young colony” sections, this touched a spot in my heart. Fort Langley was built in 1827 and while it is currently a tourist attraction, it's a reminder that we all started a little smaller, by people that carved their existence out of the wilderness. The Lower Mainland has grown up a lot in the past 170 years or so and coming from the soaring glass and steel towers of Vancouver, it's hard to imagine that we could have ever lived in a place like the fort, but we this place was built on that smaller society. I have to wonder if we live up to their ideals, or if they'd live up to ours?

Rating: 8/10

garhkal
April 25th, 2011, 04:52 PM
I didn't know it was filmed in a real fort.. man that is some connection with history.

lordofseas
April 25th, 2011, 04:57 PM
Those are supposed to sit behind a desk, not go through a gate ;) General hammond only went through the gate in SG-1 season 7 IIRC. and similarly I believe Woolseys first time through the gate was only in season 9 of SG-1.

They prefer desks to wormholes ;)

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