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GateWorld
March 13th, 2011, 02:16 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/s2/214.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/graphics/214.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">UNIVERSE SEASON TWO</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/s2/214.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">HOPE</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 214</FONT>
<IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/graphics/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
Chloe's body is taken over by the mind of someone the crew believed was dead. Meanwhile, T.J. must perform a dangerous transplant when Dr. Volker is diagnosed with an illness that threatens his life.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/s2/214.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

morbosfist
March 28th, 2011, 08:10 PM
This is a good setup episode, not counting the transplant subplot which will probably not be an issue after this (maybe Greer's infection will be, but I doubt it). Perry's going to come back in force before this is over, though Ginn, I think, won't be as active.

dtape
March 28th, 2011, 08:10 PM
did anybody else notice the smiley face on Greers body at the end of the episode?

General Jumper One
March 28th, 2011, 08:13 PM
I really liked this episode, and the music, I really really want them to release a soundtrack.

Vanek26
March 28th, 2011, 08:15 PM
Great episode. Like all of SGU, started slow, but picked up steam and I was loving it at the end. 6 more...

Bright side, McKay next week.

I liked the moments of the Greer/Volker subplot, but the overall plot of the Ginn/Perry/Chloe threeway thing was my favorite.

Zatnikitelman
March 28th, 2011, 08:16 PM
THAT WAS AWESOME! I loved this episode. I am SOOO glad Ginn is alive. Now Ely won't be quite so alone anymore, and neither will Rush. I'm guessing by Ginn's last scene that touch isn't simulated with Destiny's neural interfacing. :( But I guess this all answers the question of what happened to Franklin.

Pharaoh Atem
March 28th, 2011, 08:19 PM
i hate syfy with the passion of a million suns

mandy is back!!!!! :D

Ferret
March 28th, 2011, 08:19 PM
the overall plot of the Ginn/Perry/Chloe threeway thing was my favorite.

Ditto, although I prefer to think of it as a game of musical chairs with one body and three minds.

But I wonder how they're going to work it now that they have two of the brightest minds in the universe in the computer. What plottiness will ensue?

jelgate
March 28th, 2011, 08:23 PM
This episode seemed to have a lot of Greer moments

Greenfire32
March 28th, 2011, 08:23 PM
NUMA NUMA YAY!

Favorite part. Possibly the best humor since Window of Opportunity.

Pharaoh Atem
March 28th, 2011, 08:23 PM
This episode seemed to have a lot of Greer moments

i don't like his i'm invisble attitude.

Jedted
March 28th, 2011, 08:28 PM
Deffinatly an interesting episode. Nice that Eli and Rush got to see Ginn and Mandy again. It'd be cool if the series ended with everyone's conciousness being uploaded into Destiny. That's not a spoiler right(i haven't read anything so i have no idea)?

I was cracking up when the "2001" theme lead into the "Numa Numa" song. :cameron:

greenguywithlasereye
March 28th, 2011, 08:28 PM
dude when Brody had the 2001 on the mp3 player, then that corny song wow that had me laughing when he fumbled w/it !! there were a few other pretty funny jokes i dont remember [not the ed one it was another one]. anyway.

this episode had lots of cues that keep you guessing whats going on until the end. very well done!

jelgate
March 28th, 2011, 08:32 PM
i don't like his i'm invisble attitude.

Its not invisible. Its he cares more about others then himself.

morbosfist
March 28th, 2011, 08:40 PM
i don't like his i'm invisble attitude.And he's not invincible, either, he just doesn't want to waste any resources that could be better spent elsewhere.

Pharaoh Atem
March 28th, 2011, 08:45 PM
And he's not invincible, either, he just doesn't want to waste any resources that could be better spent elsewhere.

i'm getting tired of his i'm fine i don't need rr. i understand sacirfing for others but

FoX-1028
March 28th, 2011, 08:46 PM
rewatching now, didnt saw the ending...

jelgate
March 28th, 2011, 08:50 PM
i'm getting tired of his i'm fine i don't need rr. i understand sacirfing for others but

That tends to be the attitude of soldiers especially Marines. They enlist to serve and protect others

Zatnikitelman
March 28th, 2011, 09:01 PM
One thing I forgot to mention, that Jedted reminded me of is that Ely and Rush actually got to SEE Ginn and Mandy again. All the time before they were seeing Chloe.

Vanek26
March 28th, 2011, 09:04 PM
One thing I forgot to mention, that Jedted reminded me of is that Ely and Rush actually got to SEE Ginn and Mandy again. All the time before they were seeing Chloe.

First time Rush actually has seen a walking Mandy. She was stoned in all the time before, or in her wheelchair.

m626
March 28th, 2011, 09:04 PM
With Perry having access to all of Destiny's files, there should be no reason to find a way back to Earth. But that would be too easy.

I forget: weren't they moving to a Greer/ Park relationship? It seems they haven't interacted at all since she was rescued from the planet.

Ancient Lantean
March 28th, 2011, 09:09 PM
All in all, this was a great episode. I must say though, I was not expecting the songs that played before the operation, I nearly fell over laughing.

Mibi
March 28th, 2011, 09:09 PM
Is it just me or does anyone else think Greer is going to die of an infection? I know the series is ending but I hoped that all my favs would make it to the end.

Pharaoh Atem
March 28th, 2011, 09:10 PM
First time Rush actually has seen a walking Mandy. She was stoned in all the time before, or in her wheelchair.

mandy didn't look stoned to me :P

Mibi
March 28th, 2011, 09:17 PM
Deffinatly an interesting episode. Nice that Eli and Rush got to see Ginn and Mandy again. It'd be cool if the series ended with everyone's conciousness being uploaded into Destiny. That's not a spoiler right(i haven't read anything so i have no idea)?

I was cracking up when the "2001" theme lead into the "Numa Numa" song. :cameron:

I love this idea! It would almost be a happy ending. :)

MattSilver 3k
March 28th, 2011, 09:38 PM
An awesome episode, easily proving Carl Binder's status as my second-favourite writer on this show (With Rob and Brad tied for first). Just some awesome moments that really make the whole team seem like a team, with little bonds popping up and everyone trying to keep everyone alive no matter the cost. Glad to see Rush and Eli got Perry and Ginn back, and the whole Chloe switching thing was hilarious, especially with Eli and Scott taking a moment to go "What the ****?"

But still, a beast of an episode in a very low-key way, with character awesomeness and camaraderie that makes me all the sadder we lost this show.

Selene1212
March 28th, 2011, 09:43 PM
I thought it was awesome.

One question though, are kidney transplants ever done through the front of the body? That kind of annoyed me.

Can we call Franklin, Amanda & Ginn the "AI" even though they aren't artificial? :D

Commander Zelix
March 28th, 2011, 10:00 PM
The episode was well written (dialogues) while being unremarkable. Maybe they should call the show Stonegate Universe because it sure seems they use the stones more than the Stargates lately (even if it's used in a relative good way). :D :P

escyos
March 28th, 2011, 10:01 PM
This episode also marks out first cross-gender stone swap (Telford and O'Hara)

General Jumper One
March 28th, 2011, 10:03 PM
I thought it was awesome.

One question though, are kidney transplants ever done through the front of the body? That kind of annoyed me.

Can we call Franklin, Amanda & Ginn the "AI" even though they aren't artificial? :D

They are artificial now...

General Jumper One
March 28th, 2011, 10:04 PM
This episode also marks out first cross-gender stone swap (Telford and O'Hara)

............*is thinking of dirty things, if they had more alone time*....

Replicator Todd
March 28th, 2011, 10:05 PM
Loved the episode! Seeing Ginn again made me very happy! Good to see T.J. and Volker getting alot of focus. T.J. and Ginn are among my favorites(and Kiva.....how I miss Kiva :().

I was more interesting in the Ginn/Amanda Perry stuff more than the Transplant surgery stuff. But nevertheless I enjoyed the episode.

And I am ecstatic for the next episode! :D

Commander Zelix
March 28th, 2011, 10:05 PM
All in all, this was a great episode. I must say though, I was not expecting the songs that played before the operation, I nearly fell over laughing.
The whole scene (moment in the scene) was hilarious. From the 2001 bit to the tropical summer hit music which wouldn't stop.

It's nice how they introduced a bit more humor in the show (as personality traits).

themeatcleaver
March 28th, 2011, 10:06 PM
that was fantastic! not one but TWO characters brought back from the dead! we got answers to what happened to franklin(and to some extent alt-rush), we got amanda perry teaching TJ how to do surgeries, who knows what Ginn will help out with. the secret is out, time to bring franklin back into the fray!

/still confused on Gloria though... was she apparently a figment of rush's imagination then?
//cant frakking wait for Rodney next week! from the previews he looks to be like SG-1 Rodney--part serious, part jackass. CANT WAIT!

themeatcleaver
March 28th, 2011, 10:07 PM
The whole scene (moment in the scene) was hilarious. From the 2001 bit to the tropical summer hit music which wouldn't stop.

It's nice how they introduced a bit more humor in the show (as personality traits).

the ED jokes too! lol "Why's THAT funny?" :)

escyos
March 28th, 2011, 10:07 PM
............*is thinking of dirty things, if they had more alone time*....

I can see Telford coming online and going to talk to barnes and then stopping and looking down at his chest and going "hmmm..."

escyos
March 28th, 2011, 10:09 PM
This episode also marks out first cross-gender stone swap (Telford and O'Hara)

just a source so people wont try to refute: http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=921&pos=78

I am also considering that the person was wearing O'Hara's jacket

MattSilver 3k
March 28th, 2011, 10:11 PM
The episode was well written (dialogues) while being unremarkable. Maybe they should call the show Stonegate Universe because it sure seems they use the stones more than the Stargates lately (even if it's used in a relative good way).

Oh gee Zelix, how original of you.

*Mocking anti-anti-Stargate stuff*

I kid, I kid. I'd kill you if you weren't a Fringe fanboy too. :D :P


/still confused on Gloria though... was she apparently a figment of rush's imagination then?

No, I think she was a part of Nick's imagination left behind in Destiny's computer, and he turned it off with Franklin because he was guilty and stuff. Man, wouldn't that be awkward? Gloria Vs Perry! GRUDGE MATCH. One's older, one's younger, one was married to the man, one helped him come back from the brink after the other's death. IT IS ON.

SBN
March 28th, 2011, 10:16 PM
Really surprised how much I loved this episode. I just was not expecting anything exceptional or interesting. I found last week's to be rather bland filler material if anything. Yet once again I find an SGU episode that simply captivates me, and when the episode was done all I could think about were the possible storylines that could have been developed had this show not continued. So, I am left just feeling bitter and angry. Well I better stop here because you know the old saying "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it"?

Browncoat1984
March 28th, 2011, 10:25 PM
I gotta say, I've laughed more from this episode of SGU than from any episode of Stargate I can remember in recent memory (at least since SG-1 was canceled). For some reason, the humor was spot on, and fit the characters perfectly. It was a well-written episode and finally gave us a solid answer on the Franklin matter. While it didn't answer why we see Gloria (Rush's wife) at the same time, I kind of hope they don't fully answer it, the way they did with Battelstar as half the fun is the speculation. Still, at least its one less thread that we'll have hanging on the end.

That being said, I would say that getting Gin/Perry into real bodies would be one of the things that I would have on my list of things to be resolved if they get the movies they wanted (that is, if its not resolved before the end, which I doubt it would be.

@SBN

I felt the same way you did after watching this episode. Even if we do get the aforementioned movies, it won't be as good as if we had gotten the full 5 seasons.

themeatcleaver
March 28th, 2011, 10:38 PM
That being said, I would say that getting Gin/Perry into real bodies would be one of the things that I would have on my list of things to be resolved if they get the movies they wanted (that is, if its not resolved before the end, which I doubt it would be.


the question is... will eli still have the hots for ginn once she's uploaded to a shiny new asgard body?? :D

jwaldo
March 28th, 2011, 11:10 PM
Excellent episode, I'm starting to super-regret the cancellation. I laughed, often and hard.

Did anyone else see the pre-op music scene as a bit of a take that at the olde music montages? :jack_new_anime18:

ahdvd
March 28th, 2011, 11:12 PM
The questions this episode creates for the future is what interests me more.

Now that Rush has re-activated Desinty's mental connection systems to allow Ginn and Amanda Perry to manifest themselves and communicate with the crew, are we going to see Franklin return, are we going to see Destiny trying to communicate with Rush again as his wife on the bridge? Will destiny begin running scenarios in Young's head?

It seems as though since Rush de-activated this earlier in the season and found the bridge, that the almost labotomised Destiny's sort of personality, as it was following programming, yet also learning how to work with the crew it had now found itself with - will Destiny become a more promonent 'personality' on the show - PLEASE say the writer's are not going to forget about this, as it seems it would be a constant thing of everyday life aboard destiny now it's been re-activated.

Skiznot
March 28th, 2011, 11:22 PM
Best Episode of the Season. One story thread that seemed over comes back and one question that seemed neglected came back and was answered in perfect time to have a strong, powerful and unexpected impact on the story. Canceling this show is a crime equal to Firefly.

Skiznot
March 28th, 2011, 11:27 PM
Everyone shined in this episode. Chloe shows her strength once again, it has always been there if you look. Greer, TJ, Volker, Brody, Ginn: Phenomenal. This is the SGU I've loved since the start.

LeonK
March 28th, 2011, 11:43 PM
I found the episode to be quite good, much better than most of the other episodes this season.

Though the title of Hope is....unfortunate....as any hope the episode raises for the remainder of the season is quickly lost as one realizes that the rest of the season has been shot, ends on a cliff hanger, and the series is cancelled. :(

Mevi
March 29th, 2011, 12:14 AM
Paused during power spike...
Is that Young choking Ginn? Telford?

MattSilver 3k
March 29th, 2011, 12:18 AM
Paused during power spike...
Is that Young choking Ginn? Telford?

Simeon. Who else?

morbosfist
March 29th, 2011, 12:19 AM
Though from a viewer's perspective, it's probably a body double, hence why they blacked out the features.

Mevi
March 29th, 2011, 12:22 AM
If you have it DVR'd look at it again. Reading a bit into it perhaps? if it was a body body they made a terrible choice. Furry head, wider head, broad shoulders.

morbosfist
March 29th, 2011, 12:27 AM
It's not like it really matters when you blank out almost every recognizable feature. It's a memory of her death. Nothing beyond that. They just didn't feel like tracking the guy down for a cameo.

MattSilver 3k
March 29th, 2011, 12:32 AM
But it's a logical point - a figure is choking her, Simeon choked her. So what if it's dark and it's not the same actor making a cameo? I don't really think magically deciding it's Young or Telford is a factor here, like, at all.

katikatnik
March 29th, 2011, 12:56 AM
I thought it was awesome.

One question though, are kidney transplants ever done through the front of the body? That kind of annoyed me.

Can we call Franklin, Amanda & Ginn the "AI" even though they aren't artificial? :D

My mom had a kidney transplant. The damaged kidneys are left in their place, not cut out, and the new one is placed in the abdomen, not in the back.

Kanten
March 29th, 2011, 01:01 AM
This episode also marks out first cross-gender stone swap (Telford and O'Hara)

On SGU at least. Daniel and Vala did it a long time ago.

Fate willing if SGU gets a movie(s), the Ginn/Perry plot is one thing I definitely want to see resolved.

knowles2
March 29th, 2011, 01:04 AM
Is it just me or does anyone else think Greer is going to die of an infection? I know the series is ending but I hoped that all my favs would make it to the end.

I think I read that two characters are going to die so that certainly a possible and we have had two Geer episodes in a row, which might mean that they are developing the character before they kill him off.

knowles2
March 29th, 2011, 01:10 AM
With Perry having access to all of Destiny's files, there should be no reason to find a way back to Earth. But that would be too easy.

You are presuming the Ancients had a plan to return. An we have a way home we just need a other seed vessel.

Superhero in Disguise
March 29th, 2011, 01:40 AM
I have to admit this was certainly one of the better episodes, but I do have one thing that's been bothering me about Greer's donating a kidney. Now I could be wrong about this since neither myself or anyone I know is in the military but I vaguely remember hearing something about that people who have either donated an organ or received an organ transplant were barred from active combat service in the military.

If that's true does that mean that Greer's career is pretty much over? I know that in their current situation Young will probably over look any regulations on the matter seeing has how they're short handed as it is and everybody needs to pull they're own weight. But if they manage to someday make it back to Earth will Greer be forced to take a medical discharge or at best be given a drill instructor/desk job position?

escyos
March 29th, 2011, 01:59 AM
On SGU at least. Daniel and Vala did it a long time ago.

Fate willing if SGU gets a movie(s), the Ginn/Perry plot is one thing I definitely want to see resolved.

ahhhh no, Vala and Daniel crossed to female and male respectively. Telford (male) switched with O'Hara (female)

dvdrts
March 29th, 2011, 02:09 AM
ahhhh no, Vala and Daniel crossed to female and male respectively. Telford (male) switched with O'Hara (female)

when vala was in the ori galaxy she used the stones there to switch with daniel to report to earth.

Rylor
March 29th, 2011, 02:11 AM
ahhhh no, Vala and Daniel crossed to female and male respectively. Telford (male) switched with O'Hara (female)

I think he / she meant "Crusade", where Vala (in the Ori galaxy) switched with Daniel (although it was a one-way exchange, since Daniel was not in Vala's body)

stevilevi
March 29th, 2011, 02:25 AM
This was a good episode, I was always sad that Ginn got killed off cause Eli finally had someone to be with, so this was nice to bring her back, even if atm it's conditional.

Lahela
March 29th, 2011, 03:41 AM
Damn, I love the way the writers seemingly end a storyline then, kapow! Up it pops again, in an awesome way. So much potential with this new development.

Such great character moments, interactions were wonderful, characters other than the central group getting a decent look-in. I didn't really like the music scene (a bit to slapstick for my taste) but the ED scene was so well played I couldn't help laughing with them.

knowles2
March 29th, 2011, 04:17 AM
A other brilliant episode, with some nice moments through out, Gin, Amanda Perry and Chloe actors all play there role well.

The way Amanda Parry was able to instantly access the entire medical records and help TJ was impressive to say the least, the way she did just seconds after being uploaded. One got to wonder how much more powerful and knowledge she will gain in the near future, and what Rush will do to get the same knowledge.

I think this episode shows the depth of Talent on this show, Geer and Del scene were well acted through, love the Dome garden scenes, and felt that these two characters generally formed a bond between each other.
I thinks that Geer is going to be one of the characters to die this season, this was perfect set up for.

although I take issue with the fact there did not seem to be many food crops there.

Thought TJ and Young scene was well done in the observation deck, I notice that Varro was missing in this scene and felt he should have in this episode, I just fine it odd that TJ would preform surgery without him.

I thought the music scene was very funny and I will say this, it was one of the funniest scenes I have ever scene in SG universe and was perfectly set up at the beginning of the episode.

The writing this half of the season have been awsome and there have yet to be a episode that even approaches being weak, why did SYFY have to cancel this master piece.

Phenom
March 29th, 2011, 05:15 AM
42 minutes of my life I won't get back.

knowles2
March 29th, 2011, 05:34 AM
42 minutes of my life I won't get back.
An it was a good 42 minutes.

traylormatt
March 29th, 2011, 05:34 AM
So can the now kinds of AI on the ship decide who they will show themselves to? why would Ginn take so long to talk to Eli and why could no one else in the infirmary see Perry?

Also is there not a chance of it becoming a little boring if we have 3 AIs that can simply be a quick reference to anything and everything ancient? "Hey Perry we need to do blah blah blah, we have been trying to work it out, any help" Perry - "Oh yeah sure, press here here and here and kablazzle, you now have a matter converter so ice cream all round"

But I did think that this was an awesome episode. The back half of this season has been amazing. Not looking good for Greer. I hated him to start off with when he was just out for millitary. but lately he has become a little softer whilst still being dedicated to the cause. Its been an improvement. Now if only Telford could stop being duck a little b**** then it would be pretty sweet.

Ingsoc
March 29th, 2011, 05:39 AM
The Perry/Ginn plot was excellent, I really glad they brought Ginn back as she one of the few characters with interesting back story and one of my personal favorites. I think that in the end they will discover a machine to build human form replicators (like the one from SGA) and make bodies for the both of them.

The Greer/Volker plot didn't make any sense to me, I could see Greer volunteer to donate a kidney to another army personal or one of the civilians he's close to (Eli, Park) but to Volker? I don't remember they ever had meaningful interaction and Volker did take part in the coup attempt against the army, even if the two parties did manage to establish Modus Vivendi in the end, I could see Greer (maybe the most devoted soldier on the ship) still viewing the civilians plotters with suspicious and certainly wouldn't want to make any favors for them.

Egle01
March 29th, 2011, 06:15 AM
Such great character moments, interactions were wonderful, characters other than the central group getting a decent look-in. Exactly. Even though (some say) slow start is what killed SGU, those last episodes wouldn't be half as good as they are thanks to the wonderful character development. Wouldn't have it any other way.


I didn't really like the music scene (a bit to slapstick for my taste) but the ED scene was so well played I couldn't help laughing with them.Definitely not my taste either, which made it all so much funnier. Somehow it didn't seem over the top or anything... then again I was on the floor from laughing so hard, maybe didn't notice corniness. :P

6 to go. :(:danielanime08:

Trinary
March 29th, 2011, 06:38 AM
This is the best characters drama written in the whole SGU. If the pilot version were written this way, I might not questioning the direction or comparing SGU with SG1 and SGA. I didn't feel the urge to seek if the Stargate being used or not and I didn't mind the COM stone in this episode even I hate it from the beginning of the show.

I just noticed that the subject of returning dead people consciousness has been shown in the Fringe show a couple week earlier. So, the amazement not so much but still come good for this episode. The editing also up to the par like other popular show and urge us viewer to move on to the next scenes.

It's feel good episode that has everything a drama needed to entertain us viewers. A 5 stars out of 5 from me... :)

TheRandomOne
March 29th, 2011, 06:40 AM
So now they just have to find women to willingly give up their life & body so that Perry & Ginn can have them

lordofseas
March 29th, 2011, 06:54 AM
So now they just have to find women to willingly give up their life & body so that Perry & Ginn can have them

Or do what the replicators were doing and create bodies.

Trinary
March 29th, 2011, 06:55 AM
So now they just have to find women to willingly give up their life & body so that Perry & Ginn can have them

It could be spice up the show with introduce a replicator generator and download the consciousness into them. Instead of programming, it's a real consciousness inside a replicator body. Off course they could disable it from cloning itself. Just enough replicating body cells to mimics human body regeneration.

Briangate78
March 29th, 2011, 06:56 AM
I actually thought this episode was pretty good surprising. Ya don't always need pew pew.

The only issue I had was with the Transplant. Was too predictable and convenient.

I did like how Perry and Ginn became apart of the ship.

"Seizure" is going to kick some @ss next week!

MattSilver 3k
March 29th, 2011, 06:57 AM
I actually thought this episode was pretty good surprising. Ya don't always need pew pew.

I am literally shocked. I think I died for a moment there. This was a Carl Binder episode Brian. He wrote Life. REMEMBER!

:D

Perelandra
March 29th, 2011, 07:00 AM
Is it just me or does anyone else think Greer is going to die of an infection? I know the series is ending but I hoped that all my favs would make it to the end.

I seriously hope not. I feared for him too. when TJ mentioned the infection.
Greer's one of my favorites on the show.

Egle01
March 29th, 2011, 07:18 AM
The only issue I had was with the Transplant. Was too predictable and convenient.I really thought Volker isn't going to make it. Not that I have anything against his character, but kind of underwhelming that he made it. I'm pretty worried about Greer, tho. :S

Briangate78
March 29th, 2011, 07:33 AM
I am literally shocked. I think I died for a moment there. This was a Carl Binder episode Brian. He wrote Life. REMEMBER!

:D

For the record you brought up "Life", not me. :p


I really thought Volker isn't going to make it. Not that I have anything against his character, but kind of underwhelming that he made it. I'm pretty worried about Greer, tho. :S

I actually liked when Amanda Perry showed up to assist T.J., because honestly, there was no way she could of done that surgery on her own.

jelgate
March 29th, 2011, 07:43 AM
I actually thought this episode was pretty good surprising. Ya don't always need pew pew.

The only issue I had was with the Transplant. Was too predictable and convenient.

I did like how Perry and Ginn became apart of the ship.

"Seizure" is going to kick some @ss next week!
Not to mention medically inaccurate. But Stargate always seems to mess up in medicine.

Seizure will be good if mcKay gets pushed into a KAWOOOSH

traylormatt
March 29th, 2011, 07:44 AM
So now they just have to find women to willingly give up their life & body so that Perry & Ginn can have them

Or something like the idea at the end of Xmen 3 where you need to find a body that is brain dead to then have the consciousness put into it like professor X did. BUTTTTTT would they find that right now they can process the new information they have because they can use the ship as a kind of buffer but once they are in human form there will be too much information to handle like Jack experienced, orrrrrrr would they simply no longer have access to all this new information?

Egle01
March 29th, 2011, 07:45 AM
Not to mention medically inaccurate.Only thing that I noticed to mind were Park's untied hair.

TheRandomOne
March 29th, 2011, 08:07 AM
Or do what the replicators were doing and create bodies.

I guess they could have Atlantis create Replicator bodies that look the way Ginn & Perry did before they were killed. But getting the bodies to the Destiny would be the main problem

Sp!der
March 29th, 2011, 08:13 AM
I liked this one very much. The music stuff during the surgery was awesome as hell! this was really funny and I did not expect it either but they do not have a good taste in music (basing on the one song that he accidently played ;) )

VampyreWraith
March 29th, 2011, 08:16 AM
Was Wray in this episode? I was just thinking about it because she's usually been around around giving pep talks lately, but I can't remember any scenes with her talking to anyone. I might have just forgotten/missed it though.

Egle01
March 29th, 2011, 08:22 AM
Was Wray in this episode? I was just thinking about it because she's usually been around around giving pep talks lately, but I can't remember any scenes with her talking to anyone. I might have just forgotten/missed it though.She wasn't in the episode, and I just remembered it when saw picture from "Alliances".

Commander Zelix
March 29th, 2011, 08:25 AM
Oh gee Zelix, how original of you.

*Mocking anti-anti-Stargate stuff*

I kid, I kid. I'd kill you if you weren't a Fringe fanboy too. :D :P

Watch it matt or I'm calling my stargate fans mob and get the poking sticks out. :p

As for Fringe. I wasn't so much of a fanboy in season 1 and season 2. It was good but not great. But Fringe has really improved in season 3. It's unfortunate SGU won't have this chance (beyond a movie maybe).

Selene1212
March 29th, 2011, 08:30 AM
Greer wanted to do it, not because he's a good guy or loves Volker or anything, he wanted to do it because he lives with the need/desire to be punished. Thats why he let TJ take the bone marrow without meds. His Dad really screwed him up. He is broken.

VampyreWraith
March 29th, 2011, 08:35 AM
She wasn't in the episode, and I just remembered it when saw picture from "Alliances".

Thanks for letting me know I wasn't just imagining her not being there(cuz I forget/miss things sometimes :) ) Yeah I was thinking about her because what happened in Alliances and not being able to contact Earth and the fact that she and Greer had some nice conversation in that episode. She's also been friends with TJ, and she's always been around to give her moral support; so I thought I must have missed something because it seemed like she would've been around.

Egle01
March 29th, 2011, 08:38 AM
Thanks for letting me know I wasn't just imagining her not being there(cuz I forget/miss things sometimes :) ) Yeah I was thinking about her because what happened in Alliances and not being able to contact Earth and the fact that she and Greer had some nice conversation in that episode. She's also been friends with TJ, and she's always been around to give her moral support; so I thought I must have missed something because it seemed like she would've been around.Would've been kind of nice having Wray help TJ like she was there in "Divided".

Kaiphantom
March 29th, 2011, 09:18 AM
3 girls, 1 body! :P

I keed, I keed, but I couldn't help but think about that while watching this episode, though, heh. At any rate, it was a decent episode, if a bit... I'm not sure what word to use... kinda "meh"?

Don't get me wrong; the end result is interesting, with Perry and Ginn part of the ship and able to communicate and access database systems. Ever since I saw what happened to Franklin (and what does he think about this?), I've thought that it would be interesting to have someone get uploaded to the ship and function as sort of an AI computer interface.

But the way they pulled it off... just doesn't sit right with me for some reason. Perhaps because it's another stones/transporter malfunction, where the MacGuffin device does yet another thing new that creates a new situation. I much preferred the Franklin method, where someone willingly sat in the chair and got themselves uploaded. I don't think there is anything wrong with the concept, per se, but perhaps it is more of a matter of taste.

The stones method we got seemed more convenient, rather than the actual sacrifice that Franklin made. One seems a natural conclusion of a chain of events, and the other has hints of author meddling to make the plot go where they want.

It also didn't help that I felt this episode was dragging a bit, as if they were stringing things out in order to fit the time slot.

But ultimately, at least there weren't plot holes like with several other episodes *coughLAcough* and the characters acted fairly decently. While Eli, Scott and Chloe all acted well enough, I kept getting a feeling they were acting too well and nice to each other. I was expecting a little antagonism there between Scott and Eli, as they were basically fighting over the same woman. I don't care who you are; most guys would get mighty uppity where their woman is concerned, regardless if they are friends or not.

And is it just me, or are people too quick to accept the stones thing in this series? A lot of the times, a character on Destiny can quickly tell there is someone else in the body, and quick to believe it really is that person, with no awkwardness at all (because the person still looks the same). Ginn could have been anyone, and yet they allow her out and about with no guard? They were rather quick to believe it was Ginn, and not some alien influence that might have probed the dead Ginn's body for information in order to get aboard the ship. They know of at least one alien race that is familiar with the stones and how to use them.

I haven't met a story yet that made me like the stones much, and with each episode that focuses on them, I get more and more of a bad taste in my mouth.

And Chloe seems to be the person that things happen to, almost as if she was Miss Plot Device, rather than a character. She's had a few moments where she shined, and I wish there were more of them, but the writers seem hellbent on justifying her position because of how they can use her as a tool to further the plot, rather than a character interacting with the plot.

So I suppose this post was me working out my thoughts about why I felt this episode was a bit meh. Not every episode is going to be OMGWTF awesome, but SGU, on the hole, seems to have more "meh" episodes than good ones. My favorite episodes continue to be Air (parts 1 and 2), and the two parter of Darkness and Light. Earth is a close runner up (which is a decent example of stone use, I suppose). In Season 2, the only episode I have really liked so far is Twin Destinies, although the coming episode "Seizure" I am really looking forward to.

In any event, I will give thanks that they didn't use a music montage in this episode. In fact, I have been seeing precious little of those, so I am thankful to the writers for that.

Eestlanna
March 29th, 2011, 10:28 AM
I keep wondering, who else has been uploaded to Destiny's system during those past centuries? Maybe the whole Ancient crew? I wouldn't be surprised if this was be the future destiny of whole our crew as well...:eek:

Kaiphantom
March 29th, 2011, 10:32 AM
According to an earlier episode, it sounds like no one else has been on Destiny. According to the database, there were no Ancients... at least, un-ascended ones. JM doesn't like Ancients popping up, but I've always thought that there was an ascended Ancient or two around to at least keep tabs on things for historical documentation purposes.

KEK
March 29th, 2011, 11:36 AM
I doubt it's as simple as just dying on Destiny, or Spencer would be in there too. It seems like the chair has to be the conduit.

PotRoast
March 29th, 2011, 11:46 AM
This episode was so sad on so many levels. I loved it but at times it was hard to watch. I can't stand the thought of loosing this series. Wow, just think, Quantum Kitchen. That should be a ratings grabber!

jsonitsac
March 29th, 2011, 11:48 AM
I liked this episode. I enjoyed its bitter sweet moments and was wondering what exactly was going on and how they could possibly resolve it..

I do have one question, why was Rush's wife appearing to him? She died on Earth and never came anywhere near the chair.

Pond Hopper
March 29th, 2011, 12:40 PM
I liked this episode. I enjoyed its bitter sweet moments and was wondering what exactly was going on and how they could possibly resolve it..

I do have one question, why was Rush's wife appearing to him? She died on Earth and never came anywhere near the chair.

I think you mean Amanda Perry, she was "stoned" over to destiny during the whole Lucian Alliance siege, after she died her conciousness was just floating around in subspace or whatever.

She's also not his wife.

The_Asgard_live
March 29th, 2011, 12:47 PM
After a string of episodes I liked, this is not of my favorites.

Its disappointing that Destiny's impossibly advanced (by human standards) medical database consists of 'cut and paste' surgical techniques and stem cells. Not even very advanced by human standards.

I can suspend disbelief with the best of them. FTL sure. Aliens, yep. Magic stones, mmhmm. But finding a kidney donor, and performing a successful transplant with limited resources and a transplant team that consists of a medic and an imaginary friend? That is asking alot I think.

Numa Numa... found that forced/annoying. But the episode did have some funny moments.

Chloe/Scott/Eli triangle redux. Meh already. Poor chloe, how many brain transplants do they need to give that character to keep her interesting.

Sooo... Destiny AI ratio is what? 1/3... 3/4's chick now? Does that mean it will have trouble parallel parking and ignore the check engine light now? ... j/k... sort of...

I hope there isn't any fighting between the AI or that they don't use them to try to create sexual tension or something. I know BSG comparisons have an immediate gag reflex, even if they have merit, but frisky disembodied women that only the scientist(s) can see... that would seem somewhat familiar no?

knowles2
March 29th, 2011, 12:47 PM
I keep wondering, who else has been uploaded to Destiny's system during those past centuries? Maybe the whole Ancient crew? I wouldn't be surprised if this was be the future destiny of whole our crew as well...:eek:

Given that it looks like they go into a status chambers in one Joe pictures I got a feeling you may be right. AN when the crew awakes they will be dealing with a different Earth and Destiny much nearer to her destination.

Kilgharrah
March 29th, 2011, 12:54 PM
I have to say I wasn't so keen on watching this one, but after I did, well, I stand corrected.
It was good having Ginn and Mandy back. It just seemed that something was there to it other than just dying due to the circumstances of death. One advantage of downloading them to Destiny is that they could help them understand Destiny more and give faster commands.
About Greer. I knew he didn't choose to stay on Destiny on the other timeline just for his boss, Young. I believe he has changed. The mission changed him a lot. Now he cares about other things than just his work. He actually risked his life to save someone else. That is new.
About Volker, well, they're trying to make him more well known. We didn't really see him much other that just helping Brody, Rush and Eli. Now we know more about him and I started to like him. From what I saw on this episode and on Twin destinies, it looks like he used to be a jerk, but Destiny changed him as well.

Awesome that they understand the chair better now. The idea of downloading Mandy's & Ginn's consciousnesses to the ship had so much potential. But no use after the cancellation.

Overall, I think TPTB are starting to learn from their past mistakes on season 1 and first half of 2. Finally!!!! But it's too late, unfortunately.

Lahela
March 29th, 2011, 01:11 PM
I do have one question, why was Rush's wife appearing to him? She died on Earth and never came anywhere near the chair.

I think Destiny was using the neural link to access Rush's memories of Gloria, much like it did with Young in the scenario it played out for him.

mi_guard
March 29th, 2011, 01:16 PM
imagine if Simeon was still alive! would have been interesting to see what Ginn would have made to the person who killed her body

Jaemal
March 29th, 2011, 02:11 PM
I liked seeing Gin and Mandy again but the episode felt boring and kinda forced to me. I kept waiting for somebody to die (which was constantly being teased) but nothing happened. It was all resolved way too neatly in my opinion. Oh and Greer is now officially over-the-top. I know this guy is a bit weird but getting some of his bone marrow removed without anesthesia is just insane.

Minor nitpick: TPTB can stop raping the German language now. I like seeing references to German stuff but they really should check on how to pronounce the words.

Kilgharrah
March 29th, 2011, 02:23 PM
Minor nitpick: TPTB can stop raping the German language now. I like seeing references to German stuff but they really should check on how to pronounce the words.
German???
When was that? I can't remember anything similar to that.

could you give me an example to remind me of it?

DarkandBright
March 29th, 2011, 02:43 PM
I too was not too interested in this episode before, but was very positively surprised. Great episode, with both tension and humor, and hardly logical gaps.
I thought it to be a bit improbable that somebody brought a chess game with him/her when evacuating the Icarus base. Okay, they could have made one on board of Destiny, and it looked a bit rough, but I was wondering.
I have to admit I did not understand why both (Amanda's and Ginn's) consciousness popped up on board of the ship. If the stones really transfer a mind or not, logically only one of the two should have been there.

garhkal
March 29th, 2011, 02:50 PM
THAT WAS AWESOME! I loved this episode. I am SOOO glad Ginn is alive. Now Ely won't be quite so alone anymore, and neither will Rush. I'm guessing by Ginn's last scene that touch isn't simulated with Destiny's neural interfacing. :( But I guess this all answers the question of what happened to Franklin.

True. And with all 3 of them there now, 4 if we include Gloria, who knows what info we could gleam.


i don't like his i'm invisble attitude.

I am actually wondering if its more of a "I don't give a sh(* what happens to me" attitude..


With Perry having access to all of Destiny's files, there should be no reason to find a way back to Earth. But that would be too easy.

I forget: weren't they moving to a Greer/ Park relationship? It seems they haven't interacted at all since she was rescued from the planet.

Just cause she is in there, does not automatically give us an out. Heck the info on how to do it may be in there, but the resources/capabilities to do so may not. As to greer/park, she seems to be shagging anyone..
As evidenced by her "book club" early on..


Is it just me or does anyone else think Greer is going to die of an infection? I know the series is ending but I hoped that all my favs would make it to the end.

They May be trying to push for that, but i would hate them for it if they do so.


This episode also marks out first cross-gender stone swap (Telford and O'Hara)

Did it?? I didn;t remember who was sitting down at that time..



That being said, I would say that getting Gin/Perry into real bodies would be one of the things that I would have on my list of things to be resolved if they get the movies they wanted (that is, if its not resolved before the end, which I doubt it would be.

Perhaps part of the resupply we get should the SGC/HWC get another Icarus up and running, would include something to make them a body from (such as a clone'd body)..


The questions this episode creates for the future is what interests me more.

Now that Rush has re-activated Desinty's mental connection systems to allow Ginn and Amanda Perry to manifest themselves and communicate with the crew, are we going to see Franklin return, are we going to see Destiny trying to communicate with Rush again as his wife on the bridge? Will destiny begin running scenarios in Young's head?

Unknown. Perhaps it was just his mind manefesting Gloria, or perhaps she DID download into the ship via his use of the chair in human.. As to franklin, one can hope...



It seems as though since Rush de-activated this earlier in the season and found the bridge, that the almost labotomised Destiny's sort of personality, as it was following programming, yet also learning how to work with the crew it had now found itself with - will Destiny become a more promonent 'personality' on the show


We can hope they do go that route.


My mom had a kidney transplant. The damaged kidneys are left in their place, not cut out, and the new one is placed in the abdomen, not in the back.

Sorry to hear it. BUT to me that makes no sense, as the damaged ones could now infect the new transplaneted ones with the same renal disease... couldn;t they?


I have to admit this was certainly one of the better episodes, but I do have one thing that's been bothering me about Greer's donating a kidney. Now I could be wrong about this since neither myself or anyone I know is in the military but I vaguely remember hearing something about that people who have either donated an organ or received an organ transplant were barred from active combat service in the military.

If that's true does that mean that Greer's career is pretty much over?

Technically yes. BUT with where they are at, i seriously doubt it would matter.


An it was a good 42 minutes.

Very much so..


So can the now kinds of AI on the ship decide who they will show themselves to? why would Ginn take so long to talk to Eli and why could no one else in the infirmary see Perry?


Perhaps it had something to do with the way they were uploaded.. more of a 'forcable' push out.. As to why? Who knows. Even before Rush turned off the interface, no one else saw franklin..



Also is there not a chance of it becoming a little boring if we have 3 AIs that can simply be a quick reference to anything and everything ancient? "Hey Perry we need to do blah blah blah, we have been trying to work it out, any help" Perry - "Oh yeah sure, press here here and here and kablazzle, you now have a matter converter so ice cream all round"

it would get a little borning, but i feel a little help here and there is ok.



The Greer/Volker plot didn't make any sense to me, I could see Greer volunteer to donate a kidney to another army personal or one of the civilians he's close to (Eli, Park) but to Volker? I don't remember they ever had meaningful interaction.

True, but greer does seem to ME to be the type that steps up and helps out whom ever needs it.. Regardless.


It could be spice up the show with introduce a replicator generator and download the consciousness into them. Instead of programming, it's a real consciousness inside a replicator body. Off course they could disable it from cloning itself. Just enough replicating body cells to mimics human body regeneration.

Or perhaps we will use the Asgard method!


I guess they could have Atlantis create Replicator bodies that look the way Ginn & Perry did before they were killed. But getting the bodies to the Destiny would be the main problem

Perhaps that is something they can take care of next ep!


I think Destiny was using the neural link to access Rush's memories of Gloria, much like it did with Young in the scenario it played out for him.

And maybe the fact she died IN his dream/visions, was all it needed to upload her.

KEK
March 29th, 2011, 02:50 PM
I too was not too interested in this episode before, but was very positively surprised. Great episode, with both tension and humor, and hardly logical gaps.
I thought it to be a bit improbable that somebody brought a chess game with him/her when evacuating the Icarus base. Okay, they could have made one on board of Destiny, and it looked a bit rough, but I was wondering.
I have to admit I did not understand why both (Amanda's and Ginn's) consciousness popped up on board of the ship. If the stones really transfer a mind or not, logically only one of the two should have been there.

Rush made it in Faith I believe.

http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/albums/uni_season1/113-Faith/screencaps/normal_sgu_113_50345.jpg

Jaemal
March 29th, 2011, 03:26 PM
German???
When was that? I can't remember anything similar to that.

could you give me an example to remind me of it?

Around two minutes in Volker talks about the 2001 theme which is orignally called "Also sprach Zaratustra"(see here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Also_sprach_Zarathustra_%28Richard_Strauss%29)). The titel is German and Volker's pronounciation is way too harsh (a problem that is quite common when Americans or other English speakers give German a try). Really stuck out to me when I watched it.

KEK
March 29th, 2011, 03:40 PM
That's the actor then, not TPTB.

Jaemal
March 29th, 2011, 03:50 PM
That's the actor then, not TPTB.

Doesn't TPTB include the actors? :P

Anyway, just wanted to point that out.

escyos
March 29th, 2011, 04:13 PM
when vala was in the ori galaxy she used the stones there to switch with daniel to report to earth.

ah yes i see.

(see people that is what you do when given info that contradicts your theory, you accept it, instead of being a jerk about it.)

Selene1212
March 29th, 2011, 04:30 PM
The titel is German and Volker's pronounciation is way too harsh (a problem that is quite common when Americans or other English speakers give German a try). Really stuck out to me when I watched it.If Volker isn't supposed to actually know German then I don't see the issue with it. Wouldn't it make sense that he would pronounce it wrong???

PS In the English language "titel" (see above) is spelled "title". ;) Just giving you a hard time! :D

Macphisto
March 29th, 2011, 04:48 PM
Around two minutes in Volker talks about the 2001 theme which is orignally called "Also sprach Zaratustra"(see here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Also_sprach_Zarathustra_%28Richard_Strauss%29)). The titel is German and Volker's pronounciation is way too harsh (a problem that is quite common when Americans or other English speakers give German a try). Really stuck out to me when I watched it.

Well, the title is kinda German. Also is a shared word between German and English. Sprach is most definitely Deutsch. Zarathustra is actually Avestan and is the original name for Zoroaster, the founder of the Persian religion of Zoroastrianism.

I think you nailed the issue - English speakers tend to treat German harshly. German was my second language (way out of practice and much more able to read and write Ancient Greek at the moment) and pronunciation is difficult for English speakers because our language is not as guttural. English is really a mutt language, a hybrid between Germanic and Romantic languages. We're constantly jumping between the front of out mouths and the back of our throats whereas native Romantic speakers tend to speak with their lips while native German speakers tend to speak with their throats.

morrismike
March 29th, 2011, 04:56 PM
No sociopathic rush
No cloe dingbatisms
No 90210 drama
No wray lesbianism

This is quality programing going on right now. This was by far my favorite episode.

Kaiphantom
March 29th, 2011, 05:14 PM
No sociopathic rush
No cloe dingbatisms
No 90210 drama
No wray lesbianism

This is quality programing going on right now. This was by far my favorite episode.

Heh, cheers to that, mate. I'll add "No musical montage" either. This is Stargate, not Dawson's Creek. :P

s09119
March 29th, 2011, 05:45 PM
No sociopathic rush
No cloe dingbatisms
No 90210 drama
No wray lesbianism

This is quality programing going on right now. This was by far my favorite episode.

Makes the show great
She's been a fascinating character to watch
Your opinion I guess
...just... no...

Anyway, this episode was such a great hour of television and here I was thinking it'd be the first real stinker of 1.5's batch. Instead it was heartfelt, emotional, and hysterical all at once. I don't know what made me more, the Numa Numa interruption or the revelation that early Ancients struggled with erectile dysfunction.

LtColCarter
March 29th, 2011, 06:58 PM
Very enjoyable episode. I wonder if SGU had put out episodes like this from the get go if we'd be having a season 3! I feel the episode was very well balanced and had some interesting plot implications.

Wolf O'Donnell
March 29th, 2011, 07:25 PM
No sociopathic rush
No cloe dingbatisms
No 90210 drama
No wray lesbianism

This is quality programing going on right now. This was by far my favorite episode.

I hear you brother! If only we could get an episode without any black people! :rolleyes:

Look, im glad you are enjoying the show and its your right to be a homophobe and I guess its Gateworlds right to allow that kind of talk on here but her relationship ship could be interchanged with any other relationship on the show. The only difference is that she is in a relationship with another woman. If you dislike the show having episodes showing her relationship then you should hate all episodes that show romantic relationships because thats all it is.. a relationship.

Also have you ever seen 90210? Completely different shows.

The_Asgard_live
March 29th, 2011, 08:28 PM
I hear you brother! If only we could get an episode without any black people! :rolleyes:

Look, im glad you are enjoying the show and its your right to be a homophobe and I guess its Gateworlds right to allow that kind of talk on here but her relationship ship could be interchanged with any other relationship on the show. The only difference is that she is in a relationship with another woman. If you dislike the show having episodes showing her relationship then you should hate all episodes that show romantic relationships because thats all it is.. a relationship.

Also have you ever seen 90210? Completely different shows.
That is what constitutes homophobia these days? That kind of talk? I think thats a bold assertion. It could be homophobic, or it could be the person just doesn't like the story arc. Hard to say. I think the statement was more of a rorschach test for seeing what one wants to see.

Although, you're wrong about her relationship being able to be substituted for any of the others on the show. Her relationship seems to be fairly stable and relatively drama free.

Wolf O'Donnell
March 29th, 2011, 08:46 PM
That is what constitutes homophobia these days? That kind of talk? I think thats a bold assertion. It could be homophobic, or it could be the person just doesn't like the story arc. Hard to say. I think the statement was more of a rorschach test for seeing what one wants to see.

Although, you're wrong about her relationship being able to be substituted for any of the others on the show. Her relationship seems to be fairly stable and relatively drama free.

If he would have said something along the lines of "im glad we didnt see Wrays home life" It would be a different story but he singled out that fact she was gay. I think its obvious his problem with her is her sexuality. If I listed "Greer's blackness" under things i didnt like in the show would you call me racist?

Also when I said that Gateworld allows that kind of talk I am referring to far right wing talk as a whole. Other anti gay talk, calling Obama the anti Christ, and forming terrorist cells to kill Obama (although the person who said that did apologize for it. Im just referring to it as an example)

And if her relationship is drama free and unlike the other relationships like your saying dont you think he should love Wrays relationship because it lacks the drama of "90210" type story telling that he also doesn't like?

Its not like he bumped to a gay person on the street and I am yelling "homophobe!" He singled out her sexuality as something he didn't like about her.

The_Asgard_live
March 29th, 2011, 09:21 PM
If he would have said something along the lines of "im glad we didnt see Wrays home life" It would be a different story but he singled out that fact she was gay.

So? She is? I've seen self-professed homosexuals on this board single out and take issue with Wray's lesbianism for one reason or another. Though don't ask me what those reasons were, I've long since pushed that knowledge out of my head as useless information. This person can speak for them self though.


I think its obvious his problem with her is her sexuality.

Not to me? It could be. Or it could be that a long time stargate fan post show would like to reflect on the cool piece of advanced tech discovered, or the new aliens they met/fought. Not Wray's lesbianism and how it was handled this week.


If I listed "Greer's blackness" under things i didnt like in the show would you call me racist?

Depends.


Also when I said that Gateworld allows that kind of talk I am referring to far right wing talk as a whole. Other anti gay talk, calling Obama the anti Christ, and forming terrorist cells to kill Obama (although the person who said that did apologize for it. Im just referring to it as an example)

I assume you also include the left wing anti-religion, Bush bashing, foxnews hating talk? I admit, I was surprised when I saw some of that here. Not because it is or isn't allow, but because its a weird place to find it.


And if her relationship is drama free and unlike the other relationships like your saying dont you think he should love Wrays relationship because it lacks the drama of "90210" type story telling that he also doesn't like?

Hard to say. I don't like the relationship because I think it has been precious screen time wasted on something I don't care about in my Sci-fi shows. Unless there is some kind of freaky-deaky sci-fi sex I've never seen before... its wasted time. And even then its not time well spent.

I also don't like the fact that I believe her 'lesbianism' is only even on the show because I believe the writers thought it would be 'hip and edgy'

Then again, maybe the person doesn't like it precisely because her relationship is the only one that appears normal. Maybe that comes across as 'afterschool special' preachy trying to make a point. Hard to say what makes someone like or dislike something.

Wolf O'Donnell
March 29th, 2011, 09:40 PM
So? She is? I've seen self-professed homosexuals on this board single out and take issue with Wray's lesbianism for one reason or another. Though don't ask me what those reasons were, I've long since pushed that knowledge out of my head as useless information. This person can speak for them self though.

Not to me? It could be. Or it could be that a long time stargate fan post show would like to reflect on the cool piece of advanced tech discovered, or the new aliens they met/fought. Not Wray's lesbianism and how it was handled this week.

Depends.

I assume you also include the left wing anti-religion, Bush bashing, foxnews hating talk? I admit, I was surprised when I saw some of that here. Not because it is or isn't allow, but because its a weird place to find it.

Hard to say. I don't like the relationship because I think it has been precious screen time wasted on something I don't care about in my Sci-fi shows. Unless there is some kind of freaky-deaky sci-fi sex I've never seen before... its wasted time. And even then its not time well spent.

I also don't like the fact that I believe her 'lesbianism' is only even on the show because I believe the writers thought it would be 'hip and edgy'

Then again, maybe the person doesn't like it precisely because her relationship is the only one that appears normal. Maybe that comes across as 'afterschool special' preachy trying to make a point. Hard to say what makes someone like or dislike something.

Its clear we see his comment as two different things. Ill admit that you could be right and it may look like something to me that it isn't meant to look like. I just think that he wouldn't have singled out her being gay as something he didn't like if it wasn't a homophobic comment.

The_Asgard_live
March 29th, 2011, 09:59 PM
Its clear we see his comment as two different things. Ill admit that you could be right and it may look like something to me that it isn't meant to look like. I just think that he wouldn't have singled out her being gay as something he didn't like if it wasn't a homophobic comment.
I was just trying to say 'racist', 'homophobe' etc... get thrown around pretty casual nowadays. Of course you could be right also and the person could respond with some good old fashioned homophobia and make me look like an ass. Never can tell :) I was just giving the benefit of the doubt. As I said, there are a couple reasons I can think of to find her lesbianism annoying that have nothing to do with homophobia.

Kaiphantom
March 29th, 2011, 10:00 PM
People often confuse "tolerance" with "have to like it." There are certain things that some people just don't like, and not liking something does not make them bad. I don't like seeing two guys make out with each other; does that make me a homophobe? I don't mind two women as much, but generally I don't like to see relationship drama in my stargate at all, gay or otherwise.

I remember the days when the heaviest it got was when O'Neill beat around the bush with Carter, or Daniel was seeking his kidnapped wife.

So, before you call someone a homophobe, learn what the word means. It means a fear of homosexuality, and someone who just prefers to not see it, isn't a homophobe. Nor was the statement as such. And a person could like seeing two women make out, but not like seeing Wray and her partner in action, anymore than someone would like watching two fat people make out. Or they don't like it as written or acted, or they feel the storyline detracts from the plot.

Wolf O'Donnell
March 29th, 2011, 10:35 PM
I was just trying to say 'racist', 'homophobe' etc... get thrown around pretty casual nowadays. Of course you could be right also and the person could respond with some good old fashioned homophobia and make me look like an ass. Never can tell :) I was just giving the benefit of the doubt. As I said, there are a couple reasons I can think of to find her lesbianism annoying that have nothing to do with homophobia.
I get what your saying. You could 100% be correct and if the dude has some other reason for referring to it like that then of course ill apologize. Maybe I judged it a little quick and whatnot.


People often confuse "tolerance" with "have to like it." There are certain things that some people just don't like, and not liking something does not make them bad. I don't like seeing two guys make out with each other; does that make me a homophobe? I don't mind two women as much, but generally I don't like to see relationship drama in my stargate at all, gay or otherwise.

I remember the days when the heaviest it got was when O'Neill beat around the bush with Carter, or Daniel was seeking his kidnapped wife.

So, before you call someone a homophobe, learn what the word means. It means a fear of homosexuality, and someone who just prefers to not see it, isn't a homophobe. Nor was the statement as such. And a person could like seeing two women make out, but not like seeing Wray and her partner in action, anymore than someone would like watching two fat people make out. Or they don't like it as written or acted, or they feel the storyline detracts from the plot.

I already admitted I may have jumped the gun a bit. I just took it as a homophobic comment and didnt like it.

Meshakhad
March 29th, 2011, 11:44 PM
Loved it. They brought Ginn and Mandy back! But in a new and different way.

For canceling this show, I CURSE SyFy! May they live in interesting times!

GATEGOD
March 30th, 2011, 12:34 AM
Oh my god!!! I'm 5 minutes in and Ginn is back!!!! <3333 ahhh!!!

KEK
March 30th, 2011, 12:59 AM
No sociopathic rush
No cloe dingbatisms
No 90210 drama
No wray lesbianism

This is quality programing going on right now. This was by far my favorite episode.

Homophobic?

GATEGOD
March 30th, 2011, 01:03 AM
Haha! Best Ipod fail ever! <3

Airlock
March 30th, 2011, 01:09 AM
I seem to be the only one who thinks this episode isn't very good. It was half-assed in so many ways. From the writing, to the production, to the actor's execution. It's as if they were making something out of nothing and not really succeeding. The episode felt like "meanwhile aboard the Destiny..." where the writers and production crew are taking the day off.

I'm guessing the production budget was being conserved for other episodes so they went with a simple theater-style chamber-type piece. There's nothing wrong with that -- if the episode is inspired. But I don't think it was. Stylistically it had the vibe of a webisode. Substantively it could pass for MTV.

My main gripe with it is: there's just too much convenience in the stones use and in the way things work out that it's not that compelling or believable. The writers really took the easy route and imho got really soft. They should have raised the stakes and D.C should have gotten destroyed. Afterall, what's a trivial U.S atrocity in the grand scheme of intergalactic travel and Destiny's ultimate mission? The show's ending anyway, so there might as well be some lasting consequences. Maybe it's those "consequences" that pave the way for a truly original premise to take the Stargate franchise.

I knew it was too good to be true that the writers had killed off Ginn and Perry. Not only did they bring them back, they threw in a bonus: immortality within the ship. Lame. It completely negates the impact of their actual on-screen deaths in "Malice." Bringing them back was #1 on the list for "obvious things to do." And they did. Keeping them around was #2. Did that, too.

If a character is going to come back it mind as well be Perry. I think she adds a great deal to the dichotomy of personalities aboard Destiny. She and Rush can super-collide into a mega force opening up many great storytelling possibilities that can put the Science back in Fiction.

My biggest complaint is really the puppy-love character drama that had me rolling my eyes the whole time because it just seemed so petty and typical and didn't really offer any new information. A question would get asked leaving the stage open for a potentially interesting or scientific answer and each time the opportunity to say something fascinating occured it was blown on meaningless dialogue. And I think the affectionate scenes were heavy-handed. Many of the scenes involving Eli and Scott dealing with their respective love interests felt like a redundant set of variations and the character interactions were quite shallow and uninteresting - felt like I was transported back to the halls of Junior High witnessing the trivial drama of kids as they experiment with dating. Not a whole lot there.

The casual and improvisatory style of awkward humor was clearly the "special guest star" of the episode. I really liked most of it, but the humor also got a little heavy-handed and ultimately it came off like it was compensating for the real lack of substance in every other area. The 2001 Strauss waltz playing over transition from the garden to the infirmary just didn't work for me. That piece is so overused in media, and SGU used it in the expected cliché form in same typical satirical manner. Stylistically it was just a bit over the top without really being warranted. It put the episode in the oddball category of weird off-beat attempts to introduce a new flavor to the show. The Brody/Volker stuff is starting to get borderline goofy. I hear comedic bassoon music accompanying Volker in recent episodes. I'm worried it's gonna get all-out slapstick Stooges ;)

I don't know, I've watched "Hope" three times and haven't yet found my opinion to change. I just think this episode missed the mark. Especially with the clock ticking on the show's life, where every episode counts, I felt the cast and crew wasted an episode. This is one of the only episodes I've had a more negative evaluation than a positive one.

GATEGOD
March 30th, 2011, 01:17 AM
^ Yep you are the only one.

Loved this episode. Just got done watching it fully. 9/10

Vapor
March 30th, 2011, 01:48 AM
Since the cancellation note, I've found it more and more difficult to check out what the fandom thinks. Not because I don't care, but because it's just kind of sad knowing that, no matter what, the show is pretty much over. This episode brought me back.

It's easily the best episode since the end of the hiatus, and one of the better episodes of the season for me. Loved the character moments. Greer is amazing and I've always liked Volker, so I was glad to see some nice interactions between these two who hardly ever share major scenes. Mandy and Ginn were a complete shock to me, so that was wonderful.

Excellent episode. Well directed and well acted across the board.

Now...


No sociopathic rush
No cloe dingbatisms
No 90210 drama
No wray lesbianism


... I'll set aside the fact that I disagree with the dismissal of all the other crudely described elements to the show for the moment and just focus on the one that really irked me.

"No Wray lesbianism?" Really? How do you type something like that and NOT expect someone to accuse you of being a homophobe, whether you identify as one or not? If you had simply mentioned Wray as a character you dislike, that would be one thing, but you specifically single out the concept of her sexuality in a list of what you see as negative aspects to the show.

Ridiculous.

knowles2
March 30th, 2011, 02:11 AM
My main gripe with it is: there's just too much convenience in the stones use and in the way things work out that it's not that compelling or believable. The writers really took the easy route and imho got really soft. They should have raised the stakes and D.C should have gotten destroyed. Afterall, what's a trivial U.S atrocity in the grand scheme of intergalactic travel and Destiny's ultimate mission? The show's ending anyway, so there might as well be some lasting consequences. Maybe it's those "consequences" that pave the way for a truly original premise to take the Stargate franchise.

I have to agree they should have destroyed Washington. I am sad they did not have the gut to do so. :(

Airlock
March 30th, 2011, 02:19 AM
^^^Comes off homophobic.

I think the original criticism was that the writer's made Wray's character a lesbian not out of necessity to the story but for political reasons -- an arbitrarily chosen archetype.

It's not to say that it is preposterous that a lesbian be written as a character and all must me hetero. But let's face it, each of these characters was preconceived. Their names, personality traits, specialties, everything is thought out with a great deal of pretext -- so it is reasonable to conclude that Wray's being a lesbian was a calculated choice to introduce more variety in the character types -- and that it was likely debated and discussed in some boardroom fashion before the show started filming. Whether SGU's writers are trying to make a statement -- I don't know. For storytelling purposes I think it adds to the variety of the human dynamic. But in all honesty, my first reaction to Wray being a lesbian was: "Oh, that's the show trying to be cool and surprising." I got over that once I realized that nowhere in the show do they treat Wray with any kind of double standard. In the end it's about humanity and we are quite a diversified group.

Eestlanna
March 30th, 2011, 02:52 AM
"No Wray lesbianism?" Really? How do you type something like that and NOT expect someone to accuse you of being a homophobe, whether you identify as one or not?
What's wrong with being honest and admitting nicely that you don't like it? Do everybody have to like it? Why gay people can manifest their views on the streets and straight people can't even say it out? I don't like it either and I'm not ashamed. I have a right to have my opinion, just like gay people too. I don't care what people do at home or with whom they do it. But I feel insulted when they think they can do it in front of me. So yes, I don't like that Wray lesbianism either. In fact, I don't like any of the sex scenes on that show.

MattSilver 3k
March 30th, 2011, 03:24 AM
Can we not have this conversation in this thread? Opinions, varied from sensible to poisonous and all in between, are going to be subject to - LE GASP - opinion, and we really shouldn't have to deal with this in the discussion of an episode that had nothing to with it.

Like seriously, stop.

Airlock
March 30th, 2011, 03:45 AM
Back on topic: Wray wasn't even in this episode.

Kilgharrah
March 30th, 2011, 04:51 AM
Around two minutes in Volker talks about the 2001 theme which is orignally called "Also sprach Zaratustra"(see here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Also_sprach_Zarathustra_%28Richard_Strauss%29)). The titel is German and Volker's pronounciation is way too harsh (a problem that is quite common when Americans or other English speakers give German a try). Really stuck out to me when I watched it.
You were right. I rewatched it. Now I understand y I didn't understand it the first time. Thought there was something wrong with me. When I rewatched it, it made me ROFL. Volker is acting like a know-it-all and bragging about knowing its name in German and he can't even say it right. Best scene... in a comical way. :D

Eestlanna
March 30th, 2011, 06:04 AM
Volker is acting like a know-it-all and bragging about knowing its name in German and he can't even say it right.
Well, there are many titles that are not in our native language and we have to pronounce them anyway somehow. And when we do it not so correctly, it's simply because we really can't do better. I think it's normal. I for example can read music for I know the notes, but it doesn't mean that I can sing them prima vista. I recognize their names, but as I don't have absolute pitch, I'm not able to sing them correctly.

xxxevilgrinxxx
March 30th, 2011, 06:44 AM
Hope Review [SGU 214]

By xxxevilgrinxxx | Published: March 30, 2011 | crossposted at my personal blog

Situations aboard Destiny are often dire, with risk to the crew, to the ship, to the mission, or to humanity as a whole. Like faith, hope also survives and, in true Stargate Universe fashion, it is offered in several guises – the hope offered in the Destiny’s technologies and mission, the hope offered about people that are gone, and for people on Earth. The hope offered by the crew, to each other.

Coming after the events of the last episode, all thoughts are hanging on the fate of Earth but I’m going to hold off on that briefly.

It’s been more than twenty years since I’ve watched “2001 – A Space Odyssey” and even longer since I’ve read Nietzsche’s “Thus Spake Zarathustra” so I won’t go into great detail but it bears mentioning that this is the second episode that referenced “2001”. Granted, it’s a science fiction classic and it would probably be odd for Eli not to mention it but “2001” struck me as being central not only to the idea of hope but to the idea of Destiny and her mission.

To look at the two ships, perhaps it would be easy to toss out that they’re nothing alike. In 1968 when the film aired, I believe we had a very different idea of what our future in space would look like, but I raise this not to point out those differences but to point out the ways in which they are the same.

The willingness to explore and the hope about what we will find, about the cosmos or about ourselves, hasn’t changed. I think a good many of us can relate to Volker, sitting in his backyard, looking up at the stars and wondering about all that is out there.

To look further into “2001” and its references in SGU, both shows have alien beings that have progressed through different stages of being, in the end becoming pure energy. Perhaps it could even be said that they became gods, but in any case, they moved from one to state to another state, and we can reach them, interact with them, perhaps understand them and possibly even follow them. In “Thus Spake Zarathustra”, man is also seen on this continuum from something less to something more. And in the Stargate universe, man has followed the Ancients, learned of their progression from one state to another through the transformation known as Ascension.

The way to Ascension, in the way ‘currently’ used by the Ancients, is not available to humans but in the Destiny, humans may have at hand the initial method of achieving a sort of Ascension. This has been shown at several points: when Franklin sat in the chair and disappeared, only to reappear later on the bridge, along with Rush’s wife, Gloria. Now, those two are joined by Ginn and Amanda Perry. While perhaps not recognized as Ascension in the form that has been defined by previous Stargate incarnations, these humans have clearly progressed beyond the need for their physical bodies. Franklin’s body has disappeared, Gloria and Perry both remain on Earth and Ginn is buried on another planet, and yet they all exist, as energy, on the Destiny.

The mission to find the signal isn’t unlike the humans in “2001” seeking the monolith, and then there’s the idea of the ship’s AI. In “2001”, this was HAL 9000, a sentient, artificial intelligence that misled the astronauts about the mission. To deepen the ties between SGU and “2001”, HAL 9000 plays chess with astronaut Dave Bowman, mirrored by Rush and Eli playing chess. Given Rush’s nature, perhaps Rush is HAL in this scene.

This brings us back to hope, and Destiny’s AI. There are now four characters who have been uploaded into the ship. Is it possible that, upon the start of Destiny’s journey, the Ancients could have uploaded themselves into the ship and that has been the mind, the AI, that has guided her all this time?

Eli reassures Ginn that the current situation is a temporary one, that the crew will somehow find host bodies for their consciousnesses, but how probable, to say nothing of ethical, is that scenario? Who among the crew would give up their body and what would happen to the host’s consciousness? Why download into another strange body, when those people exist, as themselves, aboard Destiny, if in a different form?

It may be enough to be able to talk to loved ones and know that they continue to exist, in some form, but there is a terrible sadness in knowing that they can never touch. What if Eli, what if all of them, are going about it all wrong and the method is not to find very human host bodies for consciousness to reside in, but to join those others in their transformation?

Ginn may not be able to touch Eli in her current state but if she chose, I believe she could touch Franklin, or Perry or even Gloria and maybe this is hope for not only those “trapped” in the Destiny’s AI, but for all of the crew. To become beings of pure energy, their needs supplied by the Destiny, who has already shown that she’s more than capable of creating scenarios in the minds of the crew.

In Mandy and Ginn’s return, not only are two well-loved characters returning, but there is also hope that others who have been killed may be able to return as well, in some way, if only their signals could be found. That two of those people returned in the body of Chloe made for some great scenes between Eli, Scott and Rush, as all of their conflicting desires played out. Furthermore, it only stresses that simply having a consciousness in a physical body is not going to be a viable solution for those left to “share”. Chloe’s sacrifice echoes Greer’s, when she is willing to put her life at risk, to put herself in the chair in order to save the two others.

Briefly, by the end of the episode, we find out that the bomb has been defused on Earth and while this is positive, I don’t have hope that this is the end of the threat. That Telford is the one to return to Destiny certainly doesn’t make me feel any better about it.

Lastly, there is Greer and Volker.

The seriousness of the disease, the unfamiliarity with the tools, the inability to stone aboard a more capable doctor and TJ’s fear of failure all weight heavily on her shoulders and even Young’s faith in her can’t ease that. The entire “medical team”, such as it is, comes together to get her through it. There is a good deal of humour scattered through the episode and while I found laughing about erectile dysfunction to be a little juvenile, it certainly did break the tension and provided a much needed emotional break for those close to both Volker and Greer.

The decency displayed, especially by Brody, when he played Volker’s favourite piece of music, and by Greer were especially touching. That Greer stepped forward, despite having another donor available, didn’t really surprise me but that doesn’t take away from the impact, not only of the sacrifice itself but in what he endured to make good on it. Would the other man have stepped forward so easily? Doing the right thing is not just words for Greer, it’s something he lives. When Greer says that Volker would do the same for him, there’s a flicker of shame on Volker’s face, perhaps knowing that this certainly wasn’t true at one time. Perhaps that’s changed.

There was a tenderness I hadn’t expected to see so openly when Greer took Volker to the garden. Greer has great depth and to see that displayed so openly is a bold move. The onset of infection gives me a sinking feeling and I hope it gets resolved in the next episode. Without Greer, the Destiny’s spirit would be lessened.

A deeper than expected episode and, much like “2001 – A Space Odyssey”, something that needs a re-watch.

Rating: 9/10

LtColCarter
March 30th, 2011, 09:17 AM
"No Wray lesbianism?" Really? How do you type something like that and NOT expect someone to accuse you of being a homophobe, whether you identify as one or not? If you had simply mentioned Wray as a character you dislike, that would be one thing, but you specifically single out the concept of her sexuality in a list of what you see as negative aspects to the show.

Ridiculous.

I concur. The writers haven't gone overboard on this, and Wray wasn't even in this episode. People think we've come a long way in the human rights realm...but comments like this poster's shows how much further we have to go.


^^^Comes off homophobic.

I think the original criticism was that the writer's made Wray's character a lesbian not out of necessity to the story but for political reasons -- an arbitrarily chosen archetype.

It's not to say that it is preposterous that a lesbian be written as a character and all must me hetero. But let's face it, each of these characters was preconceived. Their names, personality traits, specialties, everything is thought out with a great deal of pretext -- so it is reasonable to conclude that Wray's being a lesbian was a calculated choice to introduce more variety in the character types -- and that it was likely debated and discussed in some boardroom fashion before the show started filming. Whether SGU's writers are trying to make a statement -- I don't know. For storytelling purposes I think it adds to the variety of the human dynamic. But in all honesty, my first reaction to Wray being a lesbian was: "Oh, that's the show trying to be cool and surprising." I got over that once I realized that nowhere in the show do they treat Wray with any kind of double standard. In the end it's about humanity and we are quite a diversified group.

Very good points.


What's wrong with being honest and admitting nicely that you don't like it? Do everybody have to like it? Why gay people can manifest their views on the streets and straight people can't even say it out? I don't like it either and I'm not ashamed. I have a right to have my opinion, just like gay people too. I don't care what people do at home or with whom they do it. But I feel insulted when they think they can do it in front of me. So yes, I don't like that Wray lesbianism either. In fact, I don't like any of the sex scenes on that show.

Really? Welcome to 1950. I'm not certain what you mean about gay people manifesting their views on the street. However, focusing on one aspect of a person is a narrow point of view. Wray is a lesbian, yes, but there's so much more to her than just her sexuality. A person's sexuality is just a small part of what makes up that person. People need to look beyond labels.


Can we not have this conversation in this thread? Opinions, varied from sensible to poisonous and all in between, are going to be subject to - LE GASP - opinion, and we really shouldn't have to deal with this in the discussion of an episode that had nothing to with it.

Like seriously, stop.

Like, it was a good, like, conversation. ;) But you are right...this episode didn't even have Wray in it...or any kind of sexuality for that matter. It was all about the human condition.

Ukko
March 30th, 2011, 09:46 AM
Look what you people have done! You've got Matt asking folks to get back on topic..MATT!!
I hopt you're pleased with yourselves.

Lahela
March 30th, 2011, 10:13 AM
Nr.6 MCKAY, WOOLSEY AND JONAS QUINN NEXT WEEK!!!!!

Spoilers untagged? Thanks a lot and welcome to my ignore list.

flappo
March 30th, 2011, 10:16 AM
I liked this episode, I hope Ginn will be on screen more often. Also can't wait for the next episode. Anyone else who ask himself why Greer acts like an uncredited hero?

Eestlanna
March 30th, 2011, 10:17 AM
Spoilers untagged? Thanks a lot and welcome to my ignore list.
I'm so sorry, this was my son posting accidentally under my name while using my computer, not me and I deleted that post.

Skiznot
March 30th, 2011, 10:44 AM
Overall, I think TPTB are starting to learn from their past mistakes on season 1 and first half of 2. Finally!!!! But it's too late, unfortunately.

I disagree, there weren't mistakes in the writing of SGU. The only mistakes may be with how Atlantis was handled. If you rewatch from the beginning you'll see that what is happening now was where they were headed all along. Everything like controlling the ship, working together, finding purpose were all part of the adventure from the beginning. The problem was many people didn't have faith in what the writers were doing and needed more immediate payoffs. For me the sense of wonder and mystery and the excellent character interactions were payoff enough but hope is just another example of things SGU was doing from the very start. It's an ongoing chapter style where something that happens in one episode can come back several episodes later; rewarding the fans.

Lahela
March 30th, 2011, 11:04 AM
I liked this episode, I hope Ginn will be on screen more often. Also can't wait for the next episode. Anyone else who ask himself why Greer acts like an uncredited hero?

I often wonder at his motivations. We got a little glimpse in Lost, now another glimpse, but he's quite enigmatic in that way. He's a great character and not at all the stereotype I thought he'd be at first.

LtColCarter
March 30th, 2011, 11:42 AM
I often wonder at his motivations. We got a little glimpse in Lost, now another glimpse, but he's quite enigmatic in that way. He's a great character and not at all the stereotype I thought he'd be at first.

I too often wonder what Greer's motivation is when he acts like a hero. He did it up big in this episode.

Wolf O'Donnell
March 30th, 2011, 11:46 AM
This is the last ill sat about the homophbic topic because as other people said it is off topic.

The_Asgard_live is right when he brings up the comment may not be meant to be homophobic or something of that sort but its clear that a few people besides me took it that way. Maybe we should think about what we all say (me included) so we don't offend anyone?

Thats the last thing im going to say on the matter on this thread only because it is in fact off topic and im sure the people who are in the middle who dont care just want to talk about the episode. Maybe someone will make a topic in another part of gateworld where we can debate this. If so ill be there to express my belief and if not then whatever.

Lahela
March 30th, 2011, 11:54 AM
I too often wonder what Greer's motivation is when he acts like a hero. He did it up big in this episode.

It almost seems self-destructive, but not in a Spencer way. Like he is trying to punish himself (somebody else made that suggestion earlier in the thread, but I can't find it now). In fact, in reminds me a lot of the way Jack was, especially early on.

Shan Bruce Lee
March 30th, 2011, 12:43 PM
NUMA NUMA YAY!

Favorite part. Possibly the best humor since Window of Opportunity.

The scene with the music before the transplant was definitely on that level of funny.


i'm getting tired of his i'm fine i don't need rr. i understand sacirfing for others but

I'm starting to think that that's actually his way of relaxing. He's only in his comfort zone when he's active or helping someone.

The_Asgard_live
March 30th, 2011, 01:32 PM
KEK isn't say that a person's sexuality can be conditioned. What he's saying is that we learn hate...or we are conditioned to hate. We're not born hating people of different races (for example). However, if you constantly hear that white people are evil, white people are dirty, etc. while you're growing up...you grow to hate them. (I am caucasian btw) People are constantly told that being gay is wrong, etc. Noone is born hating people on the basis of race, sexuality, age, gender. To use your food reference...my Mom used to always say that shrimp was nasty. Its all I heard my whole life. I tried shrimp for the first time when I was 38, but I'd not tried it before because I was conditioned to think it was nasty. BTW...I liked shrimp once I tried it! ;)
Hmmm... this why its complicated. I absolutely agree that some people are conditioned to hate. I just don't know that what we are talking about here is that kind of hate. I believe that its the case that people can and are born where to them certain kinds of sexualities are as I said anything from uncomfortable to gross. It doesn't mean there is something wrong with them.

Not just sexualities either. You don't see alot of ugly people on tv? We are born to be drawn toward certain traits and repelled by others. That whole evolution thing...

Skydiver
March 30th, 2011, 05:41 PM
ENOUGH

Smacks thread with the 'on topic' clue by four.

Back to discussing the episode please

thanks

morrismike
March 30th, 2011, 05:50 PM
I hear you brother! If only we could get an episode without any black people! :rolleyes:

Look, im glad you are enjoying the show and its your right to be a homophobe and I guess its Gateworlds right to allow that kind of talk on here but her relationship ship could be interchanged with any other relationship on the show. The only difference is that she is in a relationship with another woman. If you dislike the show having episodes showing her relationship then you should hate all episodes that show romantic relationships because thats all it is.. a relationship.

Also have you ever seen 90210? Completely different shows.
Who's a homophobe, that stuff adds nothing to this SCIFI show. I suppose I'm a sociopathphobe, a dingbatphobe, 90210phobe too?

LtColCarter
March 30th, 2011, 06:19 PM
It almost seems self-destructive, but not in a Spencer way. Like he is trying to punish himself (somebody else made that suggestion earlier in the thread, but I can't find it now). In fact, in reminds me a lot of the way Jack was, especially early on.

I agree...it does seem self-destructive. Its like he wants to do something to put his life in danger. Yes, it will make others see him as a savior, but I think he has more self-serving intents.


Hmmm... this why its complicated. I absolutely agree that some people are conditioned to hate. I just don't know that what we are talking about here is that kind of hate. I believe that its the case that people can and are born where to them certain kinds of sexualities are as I said anything from uncomfortable to gross. It doesn't mean there is something wrong with them.

Not just sexualities either. You don't see alot of ugly people on tv? We are born to be drawn toward certain traits and repelled by others. That whole evolution thing...

I see where you're coming from. But to think something is "gross" or "uncomfortable" is a learned trait. Some people think that interracial couples are "gross," but they weren't born thinking that.


Who's a homophobe, that stuff adds nothing to this SCIFI show. I suppose I'm a sociopathphobe, a dingbatphobe, 90210phobe too?

:lol: While I think your statement is funny...I feel that various races, cultures, genders, AND sexualities have a place in sci-fi. Its how the real world is and shows a more realistic cross section of society. Besides, its not like they showed Wray doing anything. There's been more explicit hetersexual love fests and no homosexual ones.

Infinite-Possibilities
March 30th, 2011, 06:27 PM
This was a very good episode. I especially liked the end. I wasn't even expecting to enjoy this episode as much as I did by the end of it. This was actually the first time I've felt really sad about the cancellation. (As apposed to being just slightly disappointed)

LtColCarter
March 30th, 2011, 06:29 PM
This was a very good episode. I especially liked the end. I wasn't even expecting to enjoy this episode as much as I did by the end of it. This was actually the first time I've felt really sad about the cancellation. (As apposed to being just slightly disappointed)

I know what you mean. If the cancellation had happened during the first season...I wouldn't have batted an eye. But the show has grown and it seems to continually be getting better.

Wolf O'Donnell
March 30th, 2011, 06:59 PM
Who's a homophobe, that stuff adds nothing to this SCIFI show. I suppose I'm a sociopathphobe, a dingbatphobe, 90210phobe too?

Im going to make an acception to my above comment where I ended my inclusion in this debate because your the original person who made the debated comment and because it looks as if Skydiver or one of the other moderators decided to delete a good hunk on the debate (but not earlier stuff for some reason). I assume you didnt see everything that was written because your post is right after the moderators.

I and other people took it as homophobic and debated it a lot. People also defended you. It was apparently the most off topic a discussion has ever become. Points were made on both sides but for some reason that's all deleted now.

To the moderators: Im not trying to break any rule and i'm sorry if I am but i figured since you guys allowed him to say something about the whole thing I could as well.

Skydiver
March 30th, 2011, 07:07 PM
There were some good points, but there was also a lot of mindless bickering, sniping and snarking.

Let's get this back to discussing the episode.

RedXian
March 30th, 2011, 07:46 PM
I agree...it does seem self-destructive. Its like [Greer] wants to do something to put his life in danger. Yes, it will make others see him as a savior, but I think he has more self-serving intents.

Perhaps Greer is suffering from survivor guilt and his self-less acts are his way of justifying his continued existence.

morrismike
March 30th, 2011, 07:58 PM
The show was one of the, if not the best episode so far.

I'm predicting we see less and less of the things that made season 1 special (feel free to take that however you please for those that offend easily). It is nice to see the ship incorporating the minds of people - perhaps everyone on their deathbeds can be "captured" in this manner. It looks like Rush wasn't crazy (with regards to Franklin anyway). Greer getting sick or possibly dieing will make the show a lot more realistic (kidney transplant by someone with less training/knowledge than a nurse GMAB).

garhkal
March 30th, 2011, 08:13 PM
Very enjoyable episode. I wonder if SGU had put out episodes like this from the get go if we'd be having a season 3! I feel the episode was very well balanced and had some interesting plot implications.

One could hope. Though i think it was more to do with the shift from Friday to Tuesday.


People often confuse "tolerance" with "have to like it." There are certain things that some people just don't like, and not liking something does not make them bad. I don't like seeing two guys make out with each other; does that make me a homophobe? I don't mind two women as much, but generally I don't like to see relationship drama in my stargate at all, gay or otherwise.

Agreed. I don't like Country music, but if someone else where i work does and is playing it, i at least don't go off on them. I tolerate their choice..



For canceling this show, I CURSE SyFy! May they live in interesting times!

IMO may the flees of a thousand camels nestle in all their genital regions!


Given Rush’s nature, perhaps Rush is HAL in this scene.

Well, like Hal, Rush has worked against the others at times.


Eli reassures Ginn that the current situation is a temporary one, that the crew will somehow find host bodies for their consciousnesses, but how probable, to say nothing of ethical, is that scenario? Who among the crew would give up their body and what would happen to the host’s consciousness?

A subject brought up in X3... Xavier was talking about whether a man in a coma could be taken over by someone else in need of a good body.
Or something to that effect.



In Mandy and Ginn’s return, not only are two well-loved characters returning, but there is also hope that others who have been killed may be able to return as well, in some way, if only their signals could be found.

Like who?? No one else died using the Comm Stones in this area of space.. Riley died on a planet. TJ's baby died in the womb. Those on the Faith planet died from exposure.


That two of those people returned in the body of Chloe made for some great scenes between Eli, Scott and Rush, as all of their conflicting desires played out.

Those scenes alone imo should push this episode if not the entire series for an Emy award. Or what ever that TV show specific one is..


The entire “medical team”, such as it is, comes together to get her through it. There is a good deal of humour scattered through the episode and while I found laughing about erectile dysfunction to be a little juvenile, it certainly did break the tension and provided a much needed emotional break for those close to both Volker and Greer.

I was actually surprised Varro, and some of the other regulars we see in the infirmary over the past eps were not in there..


When Greer says that Volker would do the same for him, there’s a flicker of shame on Volker’s face, perhaps knowing that this certainly wasn’t true at one time. Perhaps that’s changed.

I know from personal experience, having that level of a selfless act done for yourself does make one change their mind in doing it for someone else.



I often wonder at his motivations. We got a little glimpse in Lost, now another glimpse, but he's quite enigmatic in that way. He's a great character and not at all the stereotype I thought he'd be at first.

Perhaps he feels by doing so, he can reclaim something his family lost when his dad went cookoo or what ever.


While I think your statement is funny...I feel that various races, cultures, genders, AND sexualities have a place in sci-fi. Its how the real world is and shows a more realistic cross section of society.

I dont agree. Especially if done JUST to push a 'demographic' ticker.. Which this seems.

senilegreen
March 31st, 2011, 03:38 AM
Tough episode to rate, but to me it feels (even without factoring in the cancellation) like SGU really has jumped the shark.

There is absolutely no way a medic would even try a kidney transplant, much less know what is necessary about compatibility, etc.

I also object to the three guy's having all their loves in one body - borderline kinky on a cosmological scale.

Too bad about SGU - it has some good characters, some good to very good actors, a few neat ideas. The stories though are unhinged.

Zed_PM
March 31st, 2011, 04:01 AM
I cringed during the whole bone marrow transplant scene. I know how painful they can be. Usually they don't give an anesthetic before the transplant though.

I thought this episode would just be a filler. I don't know why I guess I really want to watch next weeks episode. I would have even missed out on a $60 concert to watch it. But I did enjoy the episode. I always wanted to know what would happen after someone died while using the ancient communication stones. There was also something else I wanted to find out about which was answered but it slipped my mind.

morrismike
March 31st, 2011, 04:17 AM
Tough episode to rate, but to me it feels (even without factoring in the cancellation) like SGU really has jumped the shark.

There is absolutely no way a medic would even try a kidney transplant, much less know what is necessary about compatibility, etc.

I also object to the three guy's having all their loves in one body - borderline kinky on a cosmological scale.

Too bad about SGU - it has some good characters, some good to very good actors, a few neat ideas. The stories though are unhinged.
In season 1.0 they would have all had "relations" with her. In that respect the show in season 2.5 was a lot more acceptable.

Skydiver
March 31st, 2011, 04:42 AM
'Other Fans' has always been off topic on this forum.

The topic is the episode, not your opinion about other fans or what you think they think or any other such things.

The_Asgard_live
March 31st, 2011, 05:00 AM
Tough episode to rate, but to me it feels (even without factoring in the cancellation) like SGU really has jumped the shark.

There is absolutely no way a medic would even try a kidney transplant, much less know what is necessary about compatibility, etc.

I also object to the three guy's having all their loves in one body - borderline kinky on a cosmological scale.

Too bad about SGU - it has some good characters, some good to very good actors, a few neat ideas. The stories though are unhinged.
You and I seem to be the only ones bothered by that. Like I said in my post, FTL I believe... kidney transplant performed by a medic not so much.


In season 1.0 they would have all had "relations" with her. In that respect the show in season 2.5 was a lot more acceptable.

Yeah, but the dialog would have been funny. They would have been mid "relations" and..

"Uh.. Ginn?"
"No! Chloe"
"Oh"
"Chloe? No, Amanda"
"hmmm"
"Amanda? No, David!"
"..... Awkward"

s09119
March 31st, 2011, 05:16 AM
Tough episode to rate, but to me it feels (even without factoring in the cancellation) like SGU really has jumped the shark.

There is absolutely no way a medic would even try a kidney transplant, much less know what is necessary about compatibility, etc.

I also object to the three guy's having all their loves in one body - borderline kinky on a cosmological scale.

Too bad about SGU - it has some good characters, some good to very good actors, a few neat ideas. The stories though are unhinged.

How does that make it jump the shark? She was essentially reading off a how-to guide from the Ancients, using extremely advanced technology to make the process even easier, and then had Perry walk her through the rest. Seemed perfectly acceptable to me, particularly if she got any advanced medic training and not just first aid and what-not.

Furthermore... why the objection, exactly? It wasn't played off like some sexual fantasy, it was downright tragic. And it's not like people sharing bodies and seeing people they have feelings for is new. Cadman, anyone?

Ian-S
March 31st, 2011, 05:23 AM
You're not the only two, I had to take a strong dose of the "suspend logical thinking" pill to get through the episode, I can see what they're trying to do with showing the stress etc. on TJ, but there is no way any sane field medic would attempt a transplant anywhere, let alone however many millions of light years they are away.

I'm also not sure why they made such a big deal over extracting the marrow from Greer either, according to a friend of mine who's had that done, you absolutely have to have anaesthetic because even with it, it's still an excruciatingly painful experience, no Doctor would allow you to go through that drug free.

Felt like a filler episode, drama wise was ok, funny in places (especially the music), but factually so far from reality it was bordering on insanity and asking the viewer to suspend all knowledge of real life to not sit there yelling at the TV.

traylormatt
March 31st, 2011, 05:30 AM
Tough episode to rate, but to me it feels (even without factoring in the cancellation) like SGU really has jumped the shark.

There is absolutely no way a medic would even try a kidney transplant, much less know what is necessary about compatibility, etc.

I also object to the three guy's having all their loves in one body - borderline kinky on a cosmological scale.

Too bad about SGU - it has some good characters, some good to very good actors, a few neat ideas. The stories though are unhinged.

Absolutely no way that they could do the transplant? So I going to assume that you are a trained military officer in the most advanced unit in the world working for a secret branch of the US military thus understanding exactly what training they go through, or know someone who is also in a very advanced and secret section of the military who shares their training with you. Or who has been on an advanced ship for a year, learning all about their advanced techniques and being thrown in at the deep end on more than one occasion. And also have the assistance of person who can directly communicate with medical knowledge of an advanced race of people far beyond our current level of understanding. If you are then you're right.

Objecting to three guy's having one body share three consciousness in one body seeming to be "borderline kinky" says more about yourself than the writers, as any sexual advancement in the show was quickly stopped because they saw it as wrong.

But either way, opinions are opinions. I thought it was another great episode, not quite to the level of the other recent ones on the back half of 2.5 but no series ever has constant 10/10. They occasionally need to have an 8/10, which I believe this was.

The_Asgard_live
March 31st, 2011, 05:31 AM
How does that make it jump the shark? She was essentially reading off a how-to guide from the Ancients, using extremely advanced technology to make the process even easier, and then had Perry walk her through the rest. Seemed perfectly acceptable to me, particularly if she got any advanced medic training and not just first aid and what-not.

That doesn't matter, you can read whatever howto you want, have the most expensive guitar and have the disembodied voices of Jimmy Page or Jimi Hendrix (pick your Jimmy) whispering in your ear, you are not going to pull off the big live show unless you got the years of experience and the chops.

This is a transplant we are talking about.

s09119
March 31st, 2011, 05:57 AM
That doesn't matter, you can read whatever howto you want, have the most expensive guitar and have the disembodied voices of Jimmy Page or Jimi Hendrix (pick your Jimmy) whispering in your ear, you are not going to pull off the big live show unless you got the years of experience and the chops.

This is a transplant we are talking about.

Yes, it is a transplant. Not a concert. They're different.

At a concert, your performance depends entirely on others' perceptions of how you did. In a surgery, it doesn't matter how long it takes you to complete it or how slowly you need to go so long as you're following the steps and being methodical.

The_Asgard_live
March 31st, 2011, 06:35 AM
Yes, it is a transplant. Not a concert. They're different.

At a concert, your performance depends entirely on others' perceptions of how you did. In a surgery, it doesn't matter how long it takes you to complete it or how slowly you need to go so long as you're following the steps and being methodical.
Okay, I am not a doctor, and I am assume you aren't either, so for us to even have a discussion, we both run the risk of potentially speaking out of our bums. If there is a doctor, feel free the smack down the misinformation and school us. With that said, here is what I think I know...

1. You are incorrect, it does matter how long it takes you to complete it. You need to get blood flowing to tissues (or else they die) and in the real world, so far as I know, the longer they keep you under, the riskier it gets.

2. You can be methodical, but you still need the trained/practiced dexterity and confidence to cut apart and sew together those kinds of delicate materials. And disembodied voice or not, simply executing the correct steps does not guarantee a positive outcome.

3. A surgery of this type takes hours upon hours. The show claimed what? 4-6 hours? I think it takes a special kind of stamina (maybe one achieved through practice/experience) to stand in place for 4-6 hours and cut apart and sew together delicate tissues. This may be why transplants are done by "transplant teams" and specialized surgeons.

4. Specialization. To my knowledge, the surgeons who do this are specialized and specifically trained for it. No disrespect to medics, but isn't their job just to patch you together so that you last long enough to be taken to a proper OR with proper surgeons?

5. So far as I remember, they weren't even wearing surgical masks. The conditions were ridiculously implausible to me.

Kilgharrah
March 31st, 2011, 06:45 AM
I agree with everyone that it's not rational. I thought about it during the episode and thought there was something I missed. I think that all that time on Destiny, TJ was studying medical stuff on the database and maybe getting some help from Earth. I know that it still makes it unreal for her to perform such operation, but, did you forget Greer's infection???
I think TPTB put that in mind and there's going to be consequences for this operation. Maybe it will not be death as someone assumed, but still something terrible. That is of course my speculation. Right now no one knows what the writers were thinking. Whether they just made the situation resolve easier than reality or just going to get back to it later with a conflict depending on the consequences.

morbosfist
March 31st, 2011, 07:43 AM
TJ performing the operation may not have been normal, but seriously, what other choice did she have? Let Volker just die? Be reasonable.

TJ made due, and because the database pretty much says exactly how to do the operation, she is little different from an actual doctor performing it other than in terms of skill. Learning how to be a doctor, unlike playing an instrument, isn't exactly something you can do through trial and error.

The operation, aside from the method of entry, isn't that unrealistic, either. TJ makes a specific point that she doesn't have forever to get it done. The computer shutting down mid-operation was a huge problem, one that was barely saved by Perry's intervention. There's also Greer's infection.

The_Asgard_live
March 31st, 2011, 08:05 AM
TJ performing the operation may not have been normal, but seriously, what other choice did she have? Let Volker just die? Be reasonable.

Well. I have been told that what makes this show 'special' compared to the other SG series is that it is real. Real people behaving like real people would.

Realistically, what they did would kill one dying person and one healthy person as well.


TJ made due, and because the database pretty much says exactly how to do the operation, she is little different from an actual doctor performing it other than in terms of skill. Learning how to be a doctor, unlike playing an instrument, isn't exactly something you can do through trial and error.

I guess I am unsure why people are thinking that performing a successful transplant surgery is merely a matter of having access to the right database and being well read (only hours before performing the surgery).

Could you do it if a doctor was telling you what to do? This isn't delivering a baby. This is standing in place and sewing together delicate tissues for 4-6 hours without seemingly having ever done it before, solo, no team, and a kidney that is not a good match.

morbosfist
March 31st, 2011, 08:47 AM
Well. I have been told that what makes this show 'special' compared to the other SG series is that it is real. Real people behaving like real people would.

Realistically, what they did would kill one dying person and one healthy person as well.Only if the operation wasn't performed correctly, and since TJ has at least had some medical training, the chances of that happening go from "absolutely certain" to "acceptable risk", given the circumstances.


I guess I am unsure why people are thinking that performing a successful transplant surgery is merely a matter of having access to the right database and being well read (only hours before performing the surgery).

Could you do it if a doctor was telling you what to do? This isn't delivering a baby. This is standing in place and sewing together delicate tissues for 4-6 hours without seemingly having ever done it before, solo, no team, and a kidney that is not a good match.I couldn't, but then I have no medical training whatsoever. TJ does, and so can be reasonably expected to be familiar enough with the human body that she could make due under instruction. Not to mention the fact that she has Ancient medical technology supplementing her work.

traylormatt
March 31st, 2011, 08:51 AM
I guess I am unsure why people are thinking that performing a successful transplant surgery is merely a matter of having access to the right database and being well read (only hours before performing the surgery).

Could you do it if a doctor was telling you what to do? This isn't delivering a baby. This is standing in place and sewing together delicate tissues for 4-6 hours without seemingly having ever done it before, solo, no team, and a kidney that is not a good match.

I don't think most people are claiming it is that simple. They didn't ask anyone else to do it after just reading the manuals. They asked a trained medic. It isn't the same as if just anyone was reading through or being told what to do. She had prior experience in dealing with people bleeding out, stitching people back together etc. Over a year or so she would have gained a lot more experience in all of these matters through practical experience. She was simply the most trained person on board. The first time some one ever did a transplant they would not have known exactly how to do it, what problems would go wrong etc they would have had an idea but not known, they would have just had to try, like TJ did She also had the benefit of advanced procedures and some advanced technology to perform the surgery. These advantages bring her up to a level that makes it possible for her to do. Yes if she did 100 times and a trained surgeon did it 100 times then the surgeon would have a better success rate. But she managed to do this one relatively successfully, given that Greer has an infection of sorts she didn't do it perfectly, but I think to a level that is believable.

Do not forget she is a trained officer in the most advanced and elite force ever known on earth, I think that she would have the physical and mental ability to stand in one place for say 4+ hours concentrating on something. Surgeons have teams because it makes it easier and they often need to do more than one operation in a day. She was doing the one, I can imagine the adrenaline + her physical and mental training of being an officer would have helped a lot for the stamina needed.

colin15watt
March 31st, 2011, 01:10 PM
I'm sure I seen in a blog somewhere someone had asked if the crew would ever get any new clothes, and they replied 'see the back half of season 2', so with that in mind (and assuming i didn't imagine seeing that), I'm thinking that they will get a supply line in next weeks episode, so theoritically, could they not send replicator bodies too for Ginn and Perry? I mean, they've made them before, and by now they could say that they've gained the technology to create human like they did in The Mortal Coil (i think?). So maybe that'll be the way around it? Can't imagine any alien races conveniently helping them create bodies...

think that was a really good episode, and I dunno about Greer dying, I don't think they'd kill him like THAT, if they were gonna kill him then I reckon they'd make him kick the bucket whilst saving someones life or something, like a heroic death? But I've been wrong before I guess.

Machiavel
March 31st, 2011, 01:48 PM
A kidney transplant only take about 3 hours and 3-5 days after the patient has his kidney functionning at optimal performance. It takes a bit longer when it is from a dead body
but yes a transplant only take 3 hours sometime even less. When you do a transplantation, you don't need to cut the existing and remove the kidney. The kidney will often be relocated in your body in a cavity.As to if she would be able to do that , probably not but I do not understand the people crying for this and at the same times finding ftl travel threw galaxies a normal occurence. Some of you just want to find bad things to say about the show that is all. Alien, ftl, flying from galaxies; no problem but do not talk about a transplantation because it is so unrealistic. The forum is full of kiddies or what.

Arguing over a kidney but traveling threw space = no prblem at all.Some of you have time to spend on non-important facts.

The_Asgard_live
March 31st, 2011, 02:59 PM
A kidney transplant only take about 3 hours and 3-5 days after the patient has his kidney functionning at optimal performance. It takes a bit longer when it is from a dead body
but yes a transplant only take 3 hours sometime even less. When you do a transplantation, you don't need to cut the existing and remove the kidney. The kidney will often be relocated in your body in a cavity.As to if she would be able to do that , probably not but I do not understand the people crying for this and at the same times finding ftl travel threw galaxies a normal occurence. Some of you just want to find bad things to say about the show that is all. Alien, ftl, flying from galaxies; no problem but do not talk about a transplantation because it is so unrealistic. The forum is full of kiddies or what.

Arguing over a kidney but traveling threw space = no prblem at all.Some of you have time to spend on non-important facts.
Greetings... heck of a first post. Its a TV show, they are all non-important facts.

If I wanted to say bad things about the show, I could be more creative. I hated season 1. Season 2 has been fairly decent.

Traveling through space at FTL requires complete suspension of disbelief. Everyone knows we can't do it. Its technology that doesn't exist. You can't argue the merits of the flux capacitor for traveling through time, because someone conjured that device out of thin air. That in its own way makes it easier to accept than the portrayal of something that actually exists where you can compare it to reality. On a show that prides itself on supposed 'realism' (or at least the uber fans think so) within a unrealistic setting, I'd say its to be expected. There have been debates about the proper conduct/gear/dress of the military on the show.

All that said, I am still not anywhere convinced that such a transplant could be handled by a solo Medic who read up on the procedure only mere hours before hand.

LtColCarter
March 31st, 2011, 06:26 PM
Greetings... heck of a first post. Its a TV show, they are all non-important facts.

If I wanted to say bad things about the show, I could be more creative. I hated season 1. Season 2 has been fairly decent.

Traveling through space at FTL requires complete suspension of disbelief. Everyone knows we can't do it. Its technology that doesn't exist. You can't argue the merits of the flux capacitor for traveling through time, because someone conjured that device out of thin air. That in its own way makes it easier to accept than the portrayal of something that actually exists where you can compare it to reality. On a show that prides itself on supposed 'realism' (or at least the uber fans think so) within a unrealistic setting, I'd say its to be expected. There have been debates about the proper conduct/gear/dress of the military on the show.

All that said, I am still not anywhere convinced that such a transplant could be handled by a solo Medic who read up on the procedure only mere hours before hand.

:indeed:

Selene1212
March 31st, 2011, 06:28 PM
How does that make it jump the shark? She was essentially reading off a how-to guide from the Ancients, using extremely advanced technology to make the process even easier, and then had Perry walk her through the rest. Seemed perfectly acceptable to me, particularly if she got any advanced medic training and not just first aid and what-not.As I recall (and I could just be hallucinating) TJ was about to start her residency training soon after the Icarus incident happened. She was very close to being a full fledged doctor. Also, lets not forget that she has been doing "meatball" surgery nearly since day one on Destiny and has probably gained a bit of skill in stitching up veins and whatnot after all the incidents they've had. They mentioned in the episode that the cutting tool she was using actually cauterized the wound at the same time too so that would greatly help the process. I can buy that she successfully did it. (I mean in reality there are people capable of forcibly taking a person and removing their kidneys against their will who's victims survive all the time.)

the fifth man
March 31st, 2011, 08:25 PM
This was a very good episode IMO. While there wasn't any real action to speak of, that is not always necessary. Both story-lines kept me very interested.

Shadow_7
March 31st, 2011, 09:02 PM
Kind of a nice episode. Nice to not have everything predictable. Sad to see the stones working again.

I also felt that kidneys from the front was odd. In hand to hand, you disable them from behind. To have to basically bore through the stomache to get to them, just odd. Even if that is how they do it in the real world.

Also feeling a drift towards Trek-isms. Greer = Worf / Mandy = EMH / Ginn = hot alien chick of the week.

Not buying the over the top Greer either. They just doubled their supplies for all intents. At least take a shot from Brody's still, even if kidneys don't like that. Also to endure that kind of pain, outside of having a liking for pain, you need to enter a certain mental state / focused / somewhere else. Otherwise you just pass out from the trauma, no matter how hard corps your are. At a minimum something to bite down on, grip super hard, and other precautions. At least a significant grunt.

Also odd to see Scott be a little too okay with it. But I guess he's always got James as a backup.

At least they kept things in line with past trends. The simulations for Young were very taxing to Destiny's processing power. So glad that Mandy, Ginn, Franklin, and whomever weren't all just showing up to everyone as a family reunion of sorts.

KEK
April 1st, 2011, 12:43 PM
http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/6276/largefullsizesgu0214038.jpg

Egle01
April 1st, 2011, 12:59 PM
http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/6276/largefullsizesgu0214038.jpgThey really seem to enjoy each other's company and have good time on set. :)

knowles2
April 1st, 2011, 05:59 PM
They really seem to enjoy each other's company and have good time on set. :)

Stargate seem to get lucky in finding actors that get along with each other and form a good off set relationships.

knowles2
April 1st, 2011, 06:02 PM
They really seem to enjoy each other's company and have good time on set. :)

Stargate seem to get lucky in finding actors that get along with each other and form a good off set relationships.

Captain James
April 1st, 2011, 10:36 PM
this was a good episode and had a decent plotline !
4 stars out of 5 stars!

Dusk
April 12th, 2011, 05:19 AM
Ugh... I blame the writers mostly for the downfall of this series. Episodes like this do not help.

LtColCarter
April 12th, 2011, 06:04 AM
Ugh... I blame the writers mostly for the downfall of this series. Episodes like this do not help.

Actually, it was a good episode. Its how the series started off that was to blame. A lot of people didn't make it past the first few episodes. I was one who stuck it out and grew to like the series. Hope was a good episode!

Pharaoh Atem
April 18th, 2011, 09:03 PM
i just realized i own 01 Also Sprach Zarathustra 0.O i've had it in my itunes for years L:OPL

Icarus
April 21st, 2011, 01:58 PM
I've just seen this episode, fantastic comedy timing. The bit when Chloe/Ginn/Amanda keep on switching, resulting in Matt/Eli/Rush (the Three Musketeers... sorry love interests) coming in and taking it in turns to interact with her, was genius.

Matt G
May 3rd, 2011, 03:06 PM
1. Well...have to admit I was happy to see Ginn back...but rather stunned having not caught any spoilers for this ep.

2. Was even more surprised to see Perry back.

3. Glad both of them survived in program-form but come on...downloading the pair of them into new bodies? Whose? Do they have the right to do that?

4. Not 100% sure what the point of the Volker kidney story was though.

A plot was interesting enough at least though.

Linda06
May 4th, 2011, 09:49 AM
Another solid episode. Since the second half of season 2 started back up it's just got better and better. It's a shame it won't get a chance to build o that though :(

At times I was like Eli and Scott, I was getting confused who was in control of the body, thank goodness they had the 3 different actresses playing the parts which helped :p It was actually pretty fun watching the musical conscienceness, apart from the almost choking part.

About the operation. I'm no Doctor but that room didn't look very sterile to me to be performing major surgery. Awesome job by TJ though none the less, with a bit of help from Mandy :D

You know, I felt sadness for Ginn and Mandy, and also Rush and Eli. I haven't felt sadness for guest characters since the days of SG-1.

I hope they keep up the high quality eps for the rest of season 2 cause I am thoroughly enjoying it :D

maneth
February 3rd, 2012, 09:35 AM
Cool ep! Great to see Ginn and Mandy again, even if they're not physically present.

Duval
February 3rd, 2012, 12:03 PM
I liked a lot this episode, very moving, not a lot of action but with a dose of suspense ^^

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
December 20th, 2012, 05:05 PM
Good episode, definitely better than yesterday's (I don't know why I'm doing that).

Great character moments. Those 2 moments with Park and Brody were great.

Also, Earth once again doesn't reveal the Stargate program to the public.

Tomorrow, the partial crossover with Stargate Atlantis.

ZRFTS
December 21st, 2012, 08:08 AM
The episode itself has surprising potential in the plot between Eli and Gin. Gin retains that type of warmness and charm and cold calucatedness that is the definition of his character and because of that which works to her advantage as it draws us into her and makes us care about every moment; from the moments where she's both scared and excited to the moments where Chloe surfaces and all confusion reigns loose. Eli definately manages to perfect that awkward lover to excellence, the certain shyness that he shows when he's around is both cute and something that people would probably do in real life when faced with such a person like this, when faced with emotion... and the determination that he shows towards not losing her definitely reflects passion, as if he is focused on fulfilling this dream even though other people may say otherwise; every movement, every vocal infliction adds a certain kind of quality to the episode; one that suggests determination to the work of acting, one that represents real life.

What ruins it is that the potential is untapped; while the two characters are interesting and the race against time is good, there is nothing that elevates it to greatness. No exploration of the things we hold dear, no exploration of possible loss, no exploration of what makes us do these things... It's oddly a common day on the Destiny in which the crew races to save somebody utilizing their wits and brawns. I blame it mostly on the fact that the writing staff lost the ability to see the hidden beauty; there has been many episodes where the potential of said subject is not exploited. Take for instance Atlantis' "The Queen", this episode had an interesting idea in that Teyla was forced to portray this Queen and that idea would naturally lead to exploration of the corruption of power between her duties and her personality, the struggles to break moral ground, the fine line between ruthless and downright despicable but instead we got an episode where Teyla acted out of character (acting irrationally, firing Darts at the enemy ship.) and managed to sleepwalk through the thing without learning a single thing. It may have been in the old format but the fact that it's potential is unexplored relates to what I'm talking about here. No matter what your format, potential is potential.

This episode also weakens the perception of Death in Universe; when your consciousnesses are able to be rescued and transferred to the Destiny itself, what's the purpose of such deaths in the first place. Rush killed "Simeone" in a fit of rage, not being able to handle the loss and not understanding the consequences of what his "death" meant and Eli managed to face emotion for the first time in his life but seeing those two alive just dilutes that. Rush and Eli are probably both thinking "Wait, why did we did those things again." It seems like the only serious death was Sgt. Hunter Riley, which is a shame because this is a show that could deal with loss, that could take risks and provide an even more realistic environment. These people are flawed, these people are trying day in and day out to keep it together, they have certain traits we don't know about and to see these people die in the line of duty, to see someone he's been so attached to gone would definately send him in desirable directions, same goes for the audience. It tests our faith in these characters, how much we'll cry for them, how much we'll remember them. When we see Wray or Greer dieing before our eyes, we'll think to ourselves "How could they do this, how could they kill of a main character like that." but then we'll realize that it's just life. If only SGU could learn to break away from the one Stargate trait that is consistent in every series, "main characters never die."

Brodie and Greer I didn't care for much, while I did find it noble that Greer would give his kidney for him and while I did find it cute in the park sitting together; there's just a sense of "been there, done that" feeling to it. TJ as the unqualified nurse, Brodie as the person in trouble and Greer as the willing candidate. There is nothing that ever stands out as unique or memorable and the entire thing to me just seems to reflect on the unmemorability of the Brodie character (I keep confusing him with Volker and vice versa.) I will say that it does reinforce Greer's determination, giving a kidney like that without fear, he's aware of the risks, he's aware that he might not make it but those demons inside compel him to go through anyway. He's serving as a friend, someone who you could go to a bar and have a drink with while at the same time he's also serving as the hardened military veteran. The kind of personality we see from him provides a multidimensional facet that improves his character. And I appreciate the small bits of comedy, the erection joke while stupid was a reflection of the naturalistic family like bond that the cast share; they can't help but to laugh as if they were good friends, while playing 2001: A Space Odyssey may have been overdone, at least they managed to include it in a personal matter while including some intriguing social commentary that raises it above the pack.

Matt G
December 22nd, 2012, 05:35 AM
Midweek...another ep of SGU...

1. This time round...I was sort of waiting for Perry to show up.

2. Volker...trouble sleeping then...hits the deck! Ouch!

3. I can imagine Eli and Rush feeling a bit wierd...but I don't think this really cheapens Perry and Ginn's deaths.

4. Interesting that Eli wanted to save Ginn but er...you've already lost her mate! I wouldn't have wanted to risk Chloe's life...end of.

ZRFTS
December 22nd, 2012, 08:00 AM
3. I can imagine Eli and Rush feeling a bit wierd...but I don't think this really cheapens Perry and Ginn's deaths.

They had their entire personalities intact.

Both of them could talk to them as if they were actually there.

They were transferred into the computer as AI's.

They could be transferred into new bodies (supposedly)

The point of loss (as shown in Mallace) is to deal with the suddenness of life and face the emotional burdens that we might have locked up; the fact that we'll never see such a thing again. What's the point of dealing with the issues if these two people are suddenly alive?

jelgate
December 22nd, 2012, 08:18 AM
Because they are not suddenly alive. The circumstances of them being "half-dead" brings it own cicumstances of emotion.

ZRFTS
December 22nd, 2012, 11:49 AM
The circumstances of them being "half-dead" brings it own cicumstances of emotion.

I know the circumstances of them being "half-dead". The point is, they basically went through all of that emotional turmoil for negligible effect.

It would of mattered if they were truly dead but they're not. (they're even in "quarantine") True death would of made the performances even more brilliant and unlocked tons of layers for the characters and since this is a series focusing sorely on the characters... (Weir's "half-death" played out mostly the same way.)

jelgate
December 22nd, 2012, 01:02 PM
No it wasn't. The emotions Eli and Rush were real when they died. It stays the same emotions with new ones since because of the state of what Ginn and Perry are. It wasn't negliable. It just changed to emotions to something different than the general grief in normal death

Krisz
December 26th, 2012, 08:35 PM
Of course no one really dies in Science Fiction, Ginn and Amanda Perry turn up again as disembodied consciousnesses, in Chloe’s body! What a weird situation though with Scott, Rush and Eli all trying to talk to their respective ‘lovers’ whilst trying to keep their hands off her! Especially awkward not knowing when each of them would suddenly appear. The way Amanda Perry pulled her ‘hands’ away awkwardly when she saw she was holding Scott’s hands when he was consoling Chloe was a funny moment though.

The Volker and Greer moment stole the show, the powerful impact of a simple act of honest concern for a fellow human being, two people you would never imagine sharing that moment in the garden. The humour was great in this too, the discussion of certain post operative effects in front of poor old Volker and his expression was funny. Brody’s questionable music choices and selection on his iPod was hilarious, when I first saw that I laughed as much as my favourite humorous Stargate moment of Jack and Teal’c golfing through the Stargate in ‘Window of Opportunity.’

It’s moments like these in this episode, where things jump from the sublime to the ridiculous that pull it up from being boring to quite an entertaining one and shows that SGU can have as much humour as SG-1!

Lieutenant Sparrow
January 3rd, 2013, 03:59 AM
Just another okay ep.

Wasn't expecting to see Gin or Perry again, that's for sure.

Scott really really annoyed me in this ep with how selfish he was. Look Eli I don't give a damn about your girlfriend. She can die again for all I care. Just give me Chloe back.

I forgot this happened to Volker :( the space odyssey music really ruined the tension though.

Would the Asgard tech on the Odyssey be able to make new bodies for Gin and Perry?

garhkal
January 3rd, 2013, 03:17 PM
Scott really really annoyed me in this ep with how selfish he was. Look Eli I don't give a damn about your girlfriend. She can die again for all I care. Just give me Chloe back.

Can you blame him for being that way?

Lieutenant Sparrow
January 3rd, 2013, 06:03 PM
Yes I can. Its one thing to be worried about your girlfriends safety. But to completely disregard the lives of the other two is just wrong. Its probably the only fault I've found with Scott so far.

garhkal
January 4th, 2013, 02:46 PM
People are selfish. Look at how many looters care not for the livelyhoods of those who they loot from?

Seaboe Muffinchucker
January 7th, 2013, 08:26 AM
Looters in general probably don't think they're stealing from people, they think they're stealing from stores or corporations. They may also think (if they think at all) that insurance will cover the losses.

Seaboe

jelgate
January 10th, 2013, 10:15 PM
Its episodes like this that really boil my blood that SGU was cancelled. This was such an interesting story arc to start. To quote Mr. Spock from the original Star Trek, I found how the stones stored Amanda Perry and Gin's consciouness to be fascinating. I added a new dimension to the stones that had not ever been explored. We always thought when someone died using the stones the person just died. But this episode shows the contray and demonstrates that the stones store a person's mental processes. I found that interesting and was hoping to see that story explored more. Sadly MGM and SyFy had other ideas:(. As for the debate about Scott I do not think too harshly about him. Was it selfish? Maybe. But Chloe is the one he loves. Of course he is going to put the well being of her over the others. Given the seizures that was happening to Chloe and the danger to her life I fully understand Scott wanting to protect us. I would say most of us selfishly put the well-being of our loved ones over others. Look at Eli and how he wanted to continue because its all that remained of Ginn.

As for the B story I always had a hard time believing this one. Not only of the rareity of Greer being a kidney match for Volkner but the insanity of a medic being able to do an organ transplant. I can suspend disbelief for some things but it was crazy believing TJ could do this. Even with Perry being a Destiny program to help TJ. I don't buy it

Cluas
March 5th, 2013, 03:16 AM
The transplant story was boring. The real story lies with the stones. I like how they are a major part of the whole show.

garhkal
March 5th, 2013, 02:04 PM
Why do you think it was a boring sub plot..? I thought it did a good job of jelling Greer and volkar together.

Cluas
March 5th, 2013, 11:36 PM
I just don't like the fact that a "medic" is suddenly doing complicated surgery.

And now you're gonna say, "but she got help from Perry and Destiny" - and I know... But it still seems unrealistic to me...

So maybe "boring" was the wrong word, sorry...

Baron Of Hell
September 18th, 2013, 08:35 PM
Love this episode. Three ladies sharing the same body. Three guys wanting their lady to come back most of all. Interesting situation to be placed in. I was glad to have the ladies back. Both are pretty good actors.

The B plot was also good. You get the feeling that the doctor guy wouldn't have done the same for Greer.

garhkal
September 20th, 2013, 11:30 AM
Very few would have knowing the situation they are in up there..
The only thing i wish they would have hit on, is whether the destinies database for medical stuff had a way to ensure the body didn't reject the transplant.

Spimman
November 8th, 2013, 01:24 PM
Let's have a medic perform a surgery that usually requires a team of the most specialized surgeons on Earth...what could go wrong? :o

Baron Of Hell
November 8th, 2013, 01:38 PM
They didn't have much of a choice. The other option was let him die.

garhkal
November 11th, 2013, 01:14 PM
Well, we have seen them use the stones before to get real docs in to take over someone else (Insurrection), so they could have gone that route.

Baron Of Hell
November 11th, 2013, 01:33 PM
They couldn't use the stones because they thought it might kill Ginn and and that other girl hanging around in Chloe's mind. Hmmm I haven't watched this in awhile but i was pretty sure they had a good reason for not using the stones. Might be thinking about a different episode.