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GateWorld
March 13th, 2011, 01:10 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/s2/213.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/graphics/213.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">UNIVERSE SEASON TWO</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/s2/213.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">ALLIANCES</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 213</FONT>
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While a U.S. Senator visits <I>Destiny</I>, Camille and Sgt. Greer are trapped when Homeworld Command comes under alien attack.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/s2/213.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B>
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morbosfist
March 21st, 2011, 07:04 PM
Though I seriously doubt they nuked DC, that's a hell of a cliffhanger to leave us on.

sgc
March 21st, 2011, 07:05 PM
I really like the new character developments between Wray and Greer. I hope that they don't completely forget about that after this episode :). I'm also eager to find out what happened to the Senator and the other scientist, and of course what happened at Homeworld Command.

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
March 21st, 2011, 07:05 PM
we'll find out in seizure.

General Jumper One
March 21st, 2011, 07:07 PM
i really liked this episode

s09119
March 21st, 2011, 07:09 PM
First off, spoilers for the "Hope" promo:
ARG NO, GINN'S CONSCIOUSNESS SURVIVING RUINS MY COOL ORIGINAL EPISODE IDEAS <_<

Now that that's out of the way... I can't decide between ***1/2 and a full ****, that was just such a good episode. These characters have come so far in just a season and a half, I really can't believe how fantastic SGU has become.

sgc
March 21st, 2011, 07:10 PM
There are certain things that we know will never happen: (at least in the general accepted timeline, barring alteration or manipulation)

1) more than 2/3 main characters permanently die at the same time/episode
2) a major city is destroyed
3) Earth is destroyed/defeated
4) The entire universe flashes out of existence
5) The main set is destroyed
6) Every single enemy drops dead all at the same time

These are just things to remember, but when you add twists such as alternate timeline, alternate reality, simulations, dreams, hallucinations, "lantern-hanging", these all are possible.

Shan Bruce Lee
March 21st, 2011, 07:16 PM
I spent the first 20 minutes trying to figure out who the actor playing Covel was. Once I figured it out I felt really stupid for not picking up on it sooner.

Overall it was another really good episode.

garhkal
March 21st, 2011, 07:16 PM
I really like the new character developments between Wray and Greer. I hope that they don't completely forget about that after this episode :). I'm also eager to find out what happened to the Senator and the other scientist, and of course what happened at Homeworld Command.

It was a great "greer-wray" centered episode.
BUT my only quip.. Why the heck did they use that bonerhead guy for a scientist? Doesn't he usually play Dweebs in comedies??

Daralundy
March 21st, 2011, 07:17 PM
I always imagined that at the end of Universe's five year run, they would discover how to control all time and space. And then they would mess it up and erase the entire multiverse.


There are certain things that we know will never happen: (at least in the general accepted timeline, barring alteration or manipulation)

1) more than 2/3 main characters permanently die at the same time/episode
2) a major city is destroyed
3) Earth is destroyed/defeated
4) The entire universe flashes out of existence
5) The main set is destroyed
6) Every single enemy drops dead all at the same time

These are just things to remember, but when you add twists such as alternate timeline, alternate reality, simulations, dreams, hallucinations, "lantern-hanging", these all are possible.

jelgate
March 21st, 2011, 07:19 PM
It was a great "greer-wray" centered episode.
BUT my only quip.. Why the heck did they use that bonerhead guy for a scientist? Doesn't he usually play Dweebs in comedies??

Star names make for good advertising

sgc
March 21st, 2011, 07:22 PM
I always imagined that at the end of Universe's five year run, they would discover how to control all time and space. And then they would mess it up and erase the entire multiverse.

:lol: Someone (sorry, I don't remember who) theorized that the Destiny's current crew was sent back in time to the beginning of time and became the initial Ancients, like a self-fulfilling prophecy... that'd be so messed up. I thought it was an interesting theory, but it wouldn't happen that way, nor would anyone want it to.

Vanek26
March 21st, 2011, 07:27 PM
Good ****: All I got to say.

7 more... ;_;

Replicator Todd
March 21st, 2011, 07:33 PM
I liked the episode, but it was a step down from the past two amazing episodes IMO.

I always love Lucian Alliance stuff though! Glad to be seeing more Varro.

s09119
March 21st, 2011, 07:45 PM
I liked the episode, but it was a step down from the past two amazing episodes IMO.

I always love Lucian Alliance stuff though! Glad to be seeing more Varro.

Oh definitely not quite as good as the past two, but I'd say only barely on that lower tier. Excellent acting, story, and characters.

Shadow_7
March 21st, 2011, 07:50 PM
Uhg... Another stoner show... But it looks like it might be the last one of those... Assuming that the stones are burried and lost, or the bomb wasn't diffused. Or a half million years until their radioactive signature makes them safe-ish again.

sgc
March 21st, 2011, 08:10 PM
I like the stone episodes. Well, I like all the episodes, but I really like the stone episodes. I hope they aren't buried or lost, though :(. I do really want an offworld travel episode, though. At least Twin Destinies had a use of a Stargate (there were quite a few episodes in a row without so much as a gate activation :(. However, it would seem a bit out of place right now as far as the current story line is piling up.

jelgate
March 21st, 2011, 08:14 PM
Uhg... Another stoner show... But it looks like it might be the last one of those... Assuming that the stones are burried and lost, or the bomb wasn't diffused. Or a half million years until their radioactive signature makes them safe-ish again.

If the bomb was deactivated the radiation wouldn't be around for a long period of time

sgc
March 21st, 2011, 08:21 PM
If the bomb was deactivated the radiation wouldn't be around for a long period of time

Well, that and the radiation didn't have any effect on the stones.

ns2
March 21st, 2011, 08:24 PM
I was really looking forward to this episode since Comic-Con, was so excited for Greer/Wray moments

This was 7.5-8 episode for me, it was good character moments the ship stuff lagged a little for me

MattSilver 3k
March 21st, 2011, 08:24 PM
A very solid episode, which I very much enjoyed. It covered some things very thoroughly, like stone misuse or somebody not wanting to go back to their body because they know they're practically dead, explored some LA stuff a bit, added some Varro characterisation (Lol at him trying to get in TJ's good graces. You sly dog), and, most importantly, delivered some serious Greer and Wray development, while using the stones, that didn't involve visiting family members or anything. Greer's biggest episode since Cloverdale, really, and Wray was great in this - very proactive, not a big defeatist like I was expecting. And Greer's always badass, limping around or not. Glad he got in one kill - saw the LA mole thing coming, but it was still good fun.

I liked our guest stars, and they did a good job of building them up enough to make their deaths by radiation or whatever mean something, or enough. Senator Michaels more than Covell, mostly because of her relationship with Chloe - and yay for Chloe standing up and saying it wouldn't be a waste for her to be there. Good on her. Covell was interesting, sort-of like Rush in a way but more of a sceptic. And when he panicked, it was a neat little human reaction, not overblown or anything, just neat.

So yeah, I liked this one, more than Deliverance but less than Twin Destinies. A solid episode, with a Greer and Wray prominence I enjoyed.

Vanek26
March 21st, 2011, 08:31 PM
After last weeks relapse, Telford seemed to be back to his post-brainwashing attitude.

KEK
March 21st, 2011, 08:44 PM
First script by Linda McGibney I believe?

Kaiphantom
March 21st, 2011, 09:07 PM
I never bought any kind of valid reason for why anyone in the LA would attack Earth. I figured that at least any kind of straight forward ship invasion wouldn't be the way to go, so I reluctantly conceded that terrorist bombing (as floated by several members here) would be the main method.

The problem is.. it still doesn't make sense. The LA loses a ship(can they make more?) and a supply of naquadria(which there seems to be vastly less of that in the universe then Naquadah) and a perfectly good bomb. What does it gain them? Not much. Earth still has ships and off-world bases, and you'd just ticked off a major galaxy power; the same one that took down the Goa'uld!

Stupid, stupid, stupid, and I really hate it when a plot is made to progress through stupidity, whether character stupidity or plot stupidity.

Warlords want to remain low on the radar, unless they are religious fanatics. And everything we've seen has shown them to be thugs and mafia-like; almost businessmen-like in nature. It's simply bad for business to go poking a beehive with a stick.

Anyway, with that out of my system, I can say that the episode was decent overall. The guest stars were very good. But it really felt like the episode was conveniently made just to get Greer and Wray to kiss and make up.

The only other thing to comment on, is the possibility that the stones may be down for awhile; hopefully, they'll be down permanently, but I don't think that is going to happen. I've really felt that the stones were too convenient from the get go. I could have lived with it possible working a few times, but they are turning into Star Trek transporters. MacGuffins that make the plot go, and can do whatever the writers need. Have some people get flashbacks of Telford's memory? Sure! It'll never come up again, but we can work technobabble to create a plot point that we'll never follow up on again.

It's like that Star Trek episode where Picard, Guinan, and a couple others get turned into kids. Seriously, they just discovered the transporters gave eternal life, and yet it will never be addressed again. It just needed to happen that one time so we could laugh at Picard as a kid going against bumbling Ferengi!

While it would have been nice to see SGU continue, I can't help but feel the stones would continue to be used in new and interesting ways... as the plot demanded at that time, and then never showing up again.

Other side notes: It's interesting to see Super Chloe is still going strong. She's not as super as she used to be, and I really hate that they had to give her a convenient alien infection to make her useful. But at least she's doing something now, and not just serving the role of an efficient oxygen and carbon dioxide exchanger. That's right, kids. You don't need to study for years, when you can get a convenient alien injection that solves your problem and jumps you past people like Brody and Volker!

And speaking of which, I really feel for those guys. I mean, they've been there all along, perhaps not as brilliant as Eli or Rush, but nevertheless doing a lot of the thankless jobs that helped save everyone's butts. And this episode highlights the issue quite nicely with that, "Um, we work here, too" line, heh. Sorry guys; maybe next time you can get the alien injection that makes you a super genius, thus proving that scifi convenience easily eclipse years of hard work. :P

KEK
March 21st, 2011, 09:24 PM
The LA are more like a galactic empire than a terrorist organization at this point. You're right they're profit driven, with warlord as leaders, which means an attack on Earth makes all the sense in the world given that the Destiny crew killed one of their commanders daughters, and Earth has (presumably) carried on disrupting their drug trade for no apparent reason.

sgc
March 21st, 2011, 09:34 PM
The LA are more like a galactic empire than a terrorist organization at this point. You're right they're profit driven, with warlord as leaders, which means an attack on Earth makes all the sense in the world given that the Destiny crew killed one of their commanders daughters, and Earth has (presumably) carried on disrupting their drug trade for no apparent reason.

We also officially declared war on them about 3 years ago, and it's also more that we are a significant threat to them, having defeated the Goa'uld, replicators, and Ori, and having built and operating vessels that incorporate technology far beyond that of their own ships, and having control of Atlantis, which is now Earth-side. Also, we control Destiny, which they obviously want and sent a large group to take control, but failed to do so. Therefore, they're angry and scared.

themeatcleaver
March 21st, 2011, 09:55 PM
We also officially declared war on them about 3 years ago, and it's also more that we are a significant threat to them, having defeated the Goa'uld, replicators, and Ori, and having built and operating vessels that incorporate technology far beyond that of their own ships, and having control of Atlantis, which is now Earth-side. Also, we control Destiny, which they obviously want and sent a large group to take control, but failed to do so. Therefore, they're angry and scared.

Also, I'd have to imagine that cost them an absolute fortune to try to take Destiny from us so I'd imagine they're getting desperate too.

DigiFluid
March 21st, 2011, 10:11 PM
Still watching, very much enjoying so far but a couple nitpicks:

- Homeworld Command, IN THE PENTAGON, gets attacked and...where is O'Neill?
- would've been nice if Camille's voice on Telford's radio had been a different voice

DigiFluid
March 21st, 2011, 10:34 PM
Finished it now.

ARGH DAMN YOU SYFY

Shan Bruce Lee
March 21st, 2011, 10:37 PM
It was a great "greer-wray" centered episode.
BUT my only quip.. Why the heck did they use that bonerhead guy for a scientist? Doesn't he usually play Dweebs in comedies??

He played Ferretti in the original Stargate movie. That more than likely had something to do with the casting.

KEK
March 21st, 2011, 10:47 PM
Still watching, very much enjoying so far but a couple nitpicks:

- Homeworld Command, IN THE PENTAGON, gets attacked and...where is O'Neill?
- would've been nice if Camille's voice on Telford's radio had been a different voice

Smashing the granny out of Carter in his cabin, obviously.

DigiFluid
March 21st, 2011, 10:54 PM
Smashing the granny out of Carter in his cabin, obviously.

:lol:

I know SGU stands on its own two feet, but even within the confines of what they've established for this particular show, O'Neill is colossally important on the Earth side of things. It just seemed bizarre that they'd show an attack on the Pentagon and we wouldn't see the guy who's in charge of Homeworld Command.

MattSilver 3k
March 22nd, 2011, 12:24 AM
Smashing the granny out of Carter in his cabin, obviously.

I'll take that.


I know SGU stands on its own two feet, but even within the confines of what they've established for this particular show, O'Neill is colossally important on the Earth side of things. It just seemed bizarre that they'd show an attack on the Pentagon and we wouldn't see the guy who's in charge of Homeworld Command.

Probably, but care factor for me? Zero.

DigiFluid
March 22nd, 2011, 12:31 AM
Probably, but care factor for me? Zero.
Well it's not like it made the episode any less enjoyable. It was a great show. It was just odd. Like if they did an episode with the Enterprise getting attacked and Kirk was just inexplicably absent without so much as a mention by the other characters.

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
March 22nd, 2011, 12:44 AM
I'm hoping Jack didn't get caught in the rubble.

Cold Fuzz
March 22nd, 2011, 12:54 AM
Well it's not like it made the episode any less enjoyable. It was a great show. It was just odd. Like if they did an episode with the Enterprise getting attacked and Kirk was just inexplicably absent without so much as a mention by the other characters.

O'Neill's presence or lack thereof could have been explained by a single line of dialogue. I'm curious as to why TPTB couldn't make a reference for the sake of continuity? Oh well. Personally though it didn't really matter to me as I have never been particularly fond of O'Neill. The only other thing I didn't like about the episode was something MS3K alluded to: the Lucian Alliance mole. I didn't have a problem with the actor who played "Airman Evans" but the way the character was written, especially about the Geiger counter, made it way too obvious he was no airman.

The rest of the episode was pretty outstanding to me though, especially the tension the assessment brought to the Destiny.

MattSilver 3k
March 22nd, 2011, 01:03 AM
Well it's not like it made the episode any less enjoyable. It was a great show. It was just odd. Like if they did an episode with the Enterprise getting attacked and Kirk was just inexplicably absent without so much as a mention by the other characters.

Meh, and yes, as Fuzz Justice above me noted, a single line of dialogue would suffice, but my thing is this... Meh. So much meh. I like the "plowing Carter" option personally. It'd be good for him. Maybe next week, or the week after, we'll get a line. We'll see.

DigiFluid
March 22nd, 2011, 01:08 AM
A throwaway line would've been plenty to make it seem less odd. "General O'Neill is consulting with the President" or something, anything to resolve the oddity. For me it really rang of that one line in SG-1 Season 10 when Carter mentions Langara fell to the Ori--and nobody so much as mentions Jonas.

Pecisk
March 22nd, 2011, 02:09 AM
Very nice ep, total nerve wreckage. Felt more consistent than 2.5 pilot. It is nice to see SGU going out with the high quality bang (I'm still hoping for movie to finish Destiny story with a fireworks).

About Lucian Alliance and what they're trying to achieve - they don't have power to attack Earth directly, so they resort to terrorist action - hit enemy there where it hurts the most. It made sense. And look, if they would have succeeded - Washigton would be pretty much gone, with SGC alone. That would leave Earth forces on other planets quite defenseless.

thekillman
March 22nd, 2011, 02:27 AM
given O'neills history, i bet he would want to spend as much time away from the office as possible.


anyway, loved the episode. i am wondering why the bomb was only 50-70Mt when a dice of naquahdah can make it GT range. maybe the Writers got some sense.

i loved how Wray reacted to Greer's awesomeness, and how she complained he always was Mr. Invulnerable :D

he's just that awesome. i loved it. "you're the perfect soldier"



About Lucian Alliance and what they're trying to achieve - they don't have power to attack Earth directly, so they resort to terrorist action - hit enemy there where it hurts the most. It made sense. And look, if they would have succeeded - Washigton would be pretty much gone, with SGC alone. That would leave Earth forces on other planets quite defenseless.

the only one with serious capability of harming the Lucian Alliance is Earth. it's why they attack. but Earth won't be defenceless if washington is gone. it would get some nasty paperwork though

Pecisk
March 22nd, 2011, 02:40 AM
the only one with serious capability of harming the Lucian Alliance is Earth. it's why they attack. but Earth won't be defenceless if washington is gone. it would get some nasty paperwork though

I meant not Earth itself, but Earth forces on another planets. Without SGC they are pretty much cut off from their supply lines. Of course we can hope SGC have plans for everything, including such scenario.

ascended alteran
March 22nd, 2011, 02:59 AM
Assuming that they were able to defuse the bomb, I think it's still possible that Covel and the senator survived. As long as the SGC is able to quickly send them tretonin or a healing device they might be able to reverse the damage to their bodies.

Shadow_7
March 22nd, 2011, 03:37 AM
Perhaps, but they didn't seem to do much for Jackson when he had his dose.

Radiation doesn't just go away when the device is turned off. It's a function of a lack of containment of a material, not a function of applying power to a material. It's not a microwave we're talking about. Living things absorb radiation, dead things emit it. Where ever equilibrium is in there. And the stones have to be linked, so any other not burried stones wont do (yea!). Are the stones technically living? Since they seem to manage life and death. Anyway, caesium 137 tests and other things since chernobyl. But there are different types of radiation out there.

Lahela
March 22nd, 2011, 03:43 AM
Yowsa! Did not see that coming ('cept the LA mole - Camile was right, something was off from the start). I was determined to be mistrustful of both the Senator and Covel, but had decided that maybe they weren't so bad after all, then wham! Covel is a snivelling coward and the Senator saves the day!

All the actors did a sterling job, as always, but French Stewart was simply superb.

Teared up at the end. Greer, you are awesome on toast. You too, Camile.

Poor Brody and Volker, always the bridesmaids. It must feel like crap to be them sometimes.

Yay for Chloe! Girl's smart, tough and dedicated.

Snickered at Young's jealous streak showing through.

Loved when Greer and Camile first stoned in to HWC, Camile's doing the ID and code thingy then getting up to talk to Telford2 while Greer just sits there looking at his hands, flexing his fingers. Very realistic, very well played.

Loved the pacing, too.

9.5/10 - taking off half a point for the predictability of the mole (even though Morgan David Jones, the boy who played him, is from my home town).

MattSilver 3k
March 22nd, 2011, 04:16 AM
Loved when Greer and Camile first stoned in to HWC, Camile's doing the ID and code thingy then getting up to talk to Telford2 while Greer just sits there looking at his hands, flexing his fingers. Very realistic, very well played.

Oh yeah, that was awesome. Good reminder that Greer never used the stones before.

sgc
March 22nd, 2011, 04:18 AM
IMO, shouldn't Homeworld Command have shield technology at its disposal? Certainly we have reached that point to be able to put some shields on a few important buildings...

s09119
March 22nd, 2011, 04:34 AM
It wasn't a stupid plot at all, as someone claimed. Had it worked, America's military and political leadership would have been vaporized all at once, and the nation and world would have ground to a halt for a while. Like Wray said, the plan probably wasn't to crash into the Pentagon, it was more likely to land nearby and just leave. Something must have gone wrong on the approach.

General Jumper One
March 22nd, 2011, 04:38 AM
How did the pilot get from the ship over to where Wray and Greer were?

Starsaber
March 22nd, 2011, 05:03 AM
How did the pilot get from the ship over to where Wray and Greer were?

Ringed out just before the crash maybe?

Kilgharrah
March 22nd, 2011, 05:09 AM
Just finished it. IMO, that's the "awesomest" SGU episode ever. Even better than "twin destinies".
Now I see "twin destinies" as a way to prepare us and the characters for "alliances". When I saw the episode, the first thing that came to my mind, 'so that's y they sent Tellford back. So that he would lead the defence on earth'.
Of course I was disappointed because we didn't get to see O'Neill or Carter. I thought it would be a chance to see them. Of course, they sent Greer with Wray in order to resolve the troubles between them. I didn't like that the airman that was with them was so obvious. They should have done more so that it won't be so obvious.
We should get more episodes about Greer from now on.
I was going to give this episode 4 out of 5 stars, but after the cliffhanger and Greer finally opening up, I thought it deserved another star.
IMO, that's one of the best cliffhangers ever on SGU.

Edit: I forgot to discuss what happened to Tellford. I think they made it unclear what happened to him in order for him to be liked again coz after everything he did since Air part one and even before that (the incident with Greer), he was hated. That's y I like what they did.

Edit2: When Senator Michaels was first introduced, I thought, 'It's Woolsey all over again'. :S

Egle01
March 22nd, 2011, 05:18 AM
So yeah, I liked this one, more than Deliverance but less than Twin Destinies. A solid episode, with a Greer and Wray prominence I enjoyed.Would sum it up the same way. :) So many wonderful character beats!! I like how it changed the relationship between Greer and Wray. Not to mention jealous Young. :D Can't wait to see more of it.

7 (already!! :() to go. :(:(

Briangate78
March 22nd, 2011, 05:50 AM
Meh, with a chain of excellent eps in a row, you are eventually going to break that chain with a mediocre episode. The episode was just not inspiring for me. Two of my least favorite characters stuck in a rumble. Next.

knowles2
March 22nd, 2011, 05:53 AM
A cool episode. I thought the attack homeworld command was realistic. Through it seem earth have finally crack the problem of detecting cloak vessels.

I like the hints about other bases being out there and how the Lucian alliance seem to be hunting them down and destroying them. It seem they have declared a full scale war on earth.

Varro and Young will come to blows by the end of the season guaranteed.

I am kinda hoping the senator and the scientist will survive, after all surely the Tok'ra and Earth have found some pretty advance radiation therapies or perhaps Asgard database can be use.
Thought the bomb was pretty clever through anyone with half a brain would have rig the hologram us so any disruptions would be detected and the bomb destonated early.

It seem the Lucian alliance must have quite a strong hold on earth, it seem that have one or more safe house.

I also enjoy watch Geer and Wray relationship blossom during the episode.

SGFerrit
March 22nd, 2011, 06:14 AM
Another great episode! SGU has gotten to a level of constant awesomeness that the other shows rarely ever achieved for me. Another couple of seasons would have been amazing, but if the last string of episodes are an indicator of what the final 7 will be like, I'll be very happy.

They handled the attack well. Just because there wasn't as much action/cgi/pow pow pow did not detract from this episode for me. The Alliance chose a chilling and (what should have been) effective method. Allowing the focus to be on those affected by the events made this a better episode imo. Camille was great, and so was Greer (and the new senator in the end).

Skylinehead
March 22nd, 2011, 06:25 AM
Not sure why the LA attacked Homeworld Command. Surely a bomb on top of the SGC would be more ideal and effective(I assume a 70 megaton bomb could penetrate it).

yet
March 22nd, 2011, 07:51 AM
IMO, shouldn't Homeworld Command have shield technology at its disposal? Certainly we have reached that point to be able to put some shields on a few important buildings...

That really bugged me in this episode they knew of the attack and had plenty of time set it up, but they should have had it installed already anyway.

And why have they still not got a big clocked satellite over the US with site to site beaming.


Other than that it was still a brilliant episode. 8.

Kaiphantom
March 22nd, 2011, 08:07 AM
The LA are more like a galactic empire than a terrorist organization at this point. You're right they're profit driven, with warlord as leaders, which means an attack on Earth makes all the sense in the world given that the Destiny crew killed one of their commanders daughters, and Earth has (presumably) carried on disrupting their drug trade for no apparent reason.

We only got involved because one stupid guy held SG-1 captive. And his boss called out the underling for his stupidity. I expect low level grunts to be stupid; I don't expect it from higher ups. To get high up, you need a certain amount of intelligence. Anyone in a higher position of an LA clan has to realize it's a big universe and the Earth can't be everywhere. There are enough resources for everyone. And as an LA clan leader, you'd realize that your biggest threats are from the LA, either with someone else taking your spot, or another clan absorbing your territory. You wouldn't have time, nor the resources, to put into creating yet another powerful antagonist for yourself.

And seriously, a tattoo? Yeah, sure, let's send a guy into enemy territory, easily marked so that they know he's one of us!

Afghani warlords that are growing opium do not attack US personnel; the Taliban extremists do. Somali warlords do not attack US warships. Why? Because it's damn stupid. If there's not a money reason behind it, they don't do it; it's simply bad business, and they can't withstand a direct attack should the US fully turn interest towards them. That's why they cooperate with the US, hoping to buy favors to be left alone to grow their opium and have the US stay out of their affairs.

The LA would have been more interesting to me as a grey force in the universe, remaining as thieves and brigands that we occasionally dealt, sometimes with, and sometimes against. The writers, though, seem hellbent on making the LA a big threat that would replace the Goa'uld and the Ori, and it just isn't working for me.

You know the biggest reason why this is a load of BS?

They aren't showing who is behind the attack, nor their reasons for. And odds are, they never will. Most likely because they can't come up with any good reason, so they just leave it vague and undefinable, and leave it up to viewers to attempt to justify the reasoning.

You know what I'd do if I were an LA warlord and looking at Earth? Atlantis. I'd stay on the down low, slowly working people into position (people without easily identifiable tattoos!). I wouldn't go bombing Earth, as that would just get their attention on me. But once I had enough people in place, I'd take over Atlantis and steal it. The wealth of technology and power in that city alone is enough to rally more LA clans under my leadership. It's got a shield that not even the Earthlings can penetrate.

Forget Destiny. Forget any supposed "declaration of war." As a smart warlord (and I'd have to be, to get into that position), I'd recognize that Earth doesn't have the resources to go after little ole me. And if I was going to go after Earth for something valuable, that's what I'd do, and how I'd go about it. And once I have Atlantis and most of the LA under my leadership, I can properly protect a Naquadria planet to invade Destiny if I wanted. Langara has to be known as a naquadria planet by now; infiltrate them, with plans to dial the 9th Chevron from there, or at least be a part of anything should Earth choose to exercise those connections.

So, the writers want us to buy that the LA warlords are both smart and incredibly stupid. I suppose I don't entirely blame them, since if they haven't done their research on what real Mafia and Yakuza types are like, then they can't make it realistic in their writing.

leiasky
March 22nd, 2011, 08:30 AM
I was GLUED to the television last night. Not because I cared about what happened to the SGU people but because I wanted to see what was happening on Earth. Too bad we'll probably never see the SG-1 movie, which this episode was likely set up to show the SGU side of.

Disguested isn't a strong enough word to describe why we didn't hear the slightest iota of information on the HEAD of the facility that was hit or where Earth's fleet might be.

Egle01
March 22nd, 2011, 08:37 AM
A re-watch made this episode even better. :) Love how the stones got used. Wish I could change my rating to a 9. :)

knowles2
March 22nd, 2011, 08:44 AM
We only got involved because one stupid guy held SG-1 captive. And his boss called out the underling for his stupidity. I expect low level grunts to be stupid; I don't expect it from higher ups. To get high up, you need a certain amount of intelligence. Anyone in a higher position of an LA clan has to realize it's a big universe and the Earth can't be everywhere. There are enough resources for everyone. And as an LA clan leader, you'd realize that your biggest threats are from the LA, either with someone else taking your spot, or another clan absorbing your territory. You wouldn't have time, nor the resources, to put into creating yet another powerful antagonist for yourself.

And seriously, a tattoo? Yeah, sure, let's send a guy into enemy territory, easily marked so that they know he's one of us!

[QUOTE]Afghani warlords that are growing opium do not attack US personnel; the Taliban extremists do.


The Taliban are recognise as one of the main people behind the Drug trade in Afghanistan, obtaining about 200 million dollars per year from it in profits. The Taliban are more drug runners now than rebels fight a nobel islamic fight as they would like the west and fellow muslims to believe.

An it also thought that many other drug gangs operating in Afghanistan who do not officially called themselves Taliban regularly carry out attacks on the coalition troops, to stop developments and reconstruction projects and some of the biggest of those are aim at getting farmers to grow food crops rather than drugs.



Somali warlords do not attack US warships. Why? Because it's damn stupid.

Actually it not the Somali warlords who are behind the pirate attacks. It local fisherman who loss out to other countries fishing vessels who raped Somali seas of fish stocks as they were ungovern by catch quotas like many other seas, especially the European Union control fisheries where many of these vessels originated from, many of them were Spanish and Portuguese.

The fisherman first acted as cost guards, they tried to warn and frighten these vessels out of Somali waters. Only when that did not work, did they decide to hold a few of those vessels to teach them a lesson and when nothing was done about the exploitation of there fishing stocks and vessels were still venturing into there waters did they start demanding ransoms to feed there families. This ha grown into more a sophicasted racket solely for exploiting the situation for profits. But that not how it started and it not what the many people behind want to do.

The Somali warlords as traditionally recognise were the geezers who had no trouble and no fear taking on American fire power, google black Hawk or better yet watch the film Black Hawk and see what they did there. Somali pirates avoid harming the captives and often keep them well fed and often well treated and avoid confrontation at all costs. Somalia warlords did not such thing.





The LA would have been more interesting to me as a grey force in the universe, remaining as thieves and brigands that we occasionally dealt, sometimes with, and sometimes against. The writers, though, seem hellbent on making the LA a big threat that would replace the Goa'uld and the Ori, and it just isn't working for me.

Look at the drug cartels in Mexico do,they attack an kill anyone who get in there way government officials, army, intelligence services, civilians. The Lucian alliance are much close related to those guys than Somali pirates or Taliban.

You know the biggest reason why this is a load of BS?

They aren't showing who is behind the attack, nor their reasons for. And odds are, they never will. Most likely because they can't come up with any good reason, so they just leave it vague and undefinable, and leave it up to viewers to attempt to justify the reasoning.




So, the writers want us to buy that the LA warlords are both smart and incredibly stupid. I suppose I don't entirely blame them, since if they haven't done their research on what real Mafia and Yakuza types are like, then they can't make it realistic in their writing.

I think the Lucian Alliance is much closeer to the Mafia, especially the Mexico ones than you give the writers credit for./.
The grunt they sent to blow up Homeworld security was probably a low level person who they did not care about or wanted perminantly under cover. They sent him on a virtual suicide mission with way out to keep him loyal and committed to the mission and the likely hood of getting through the perimeter, and medical checks would be pretty much zero.


An the Lucian alliance is not fighting Earth because of what earth is now they are fighting earth for what earth is becoming a galactic super power with technology and weapons that substantially out classed there own. Who is rapidly expanding its operations and got access to even more advance technology. They may not stopped little ol warlords just yet but they the most likely to form a galaxy wide government in the short term.


Sorry for going a bit of topic in this post.

Ukko
March 22nd, 2011, 09:25 AM
IMO, shouldn't Homeworld Command have shield technology at its disposal? Certainly we have reached that point to be able to put some shields on a few important buildings...

Maybe thats why the ship crashed. It broke through the shield.

Demoniser
March 22nd, 2011, 09:40 AM
I doubt they'd have a shield over the building. I can't see the smarts in it.

Nothing says alien technologiy like a huge energy shield appearing over the pentagon. It's hardly in the middle of nowhere, it would light the place up like a christmas tree "Hi world, we have top secret conspiracy stuff going on here, oh and we have super advanced alien technology".

Skiznot
March 22nd, 2011, 09:42 AM
Liked
-The Chloe Moments with the woman from her old life that just didn't get it.
-Couple of Woah! plot moments with the ceiling collapsing and the gore of a severed leg
-French's character had interesting thoughts on "the signal" and how earth would react to it.
-Big plus for forcing the FTL and having Varo try to explain stuff very fast.

That's about it. These types of episodes are not why I watch the show but it was still entertaining.

Lahela
March 22nd, 2011, 10:09 AM
A re-watch made this episode even better. :) Love how the stones got used. Wish I could change my rating to a 9. :)

Me too. I much prefer them as a tool for driving the story, which they did very cleverly in this ep. And the little human touches that went along with them, like Greer checking the stone out before he put it on the tablet.

Replicator Todd
March 22nd, 2011, 10:09 AM
I wish we were going to see more of Covel...I thought the character could of grown quite interesting over time if he had more of a Telford-like role. Except being the scientist counterpart.

escyos
March 22nd, 2011, 10:20 AM
(spoilers for next episode)
I loved the whole TJ and Michaels bit about having a real doctor aboard and about TJ learning what all the stuff does- hint at the next episode!

Kaiphantom
March 22nd, 2011, 10:23 AM
The Taliban are recognise as one of the main people behind the Drug trade in Afghanistan, obtaining about 200 million dollars per year from it in profits. The Taliban are more drug runners now than rebels fight a nobel islamic fight as they would like the west and fellow muslims to believe.

It's mixed. There is a lot of Islamic fanaticism mixed in with the Taliban angry at it's outster. And they are financed in part by the drug trade. But Afghanistan is, like several other Middle East and North Africa countries, made up of warlord and clan factions. Gaddafi himself didn't quite lead Libya, so much as manage to keep several different competing clan factions to work together. It's quite interesting, when you get into how he managed to form Libya and keep it together. Another example is Yemen, in which the warlords of various factions hold sway on territory, and the government actually has little power outside the capital city.

So we have plenty of examples right here on Earth of how the LA should be. One of the few differences is that the LA is made up of thieves and smugglers, so appears to be more of a crime syndicate, rather than a family clan. Warlords in the Middle East are generally more clan and family oriented, with crime on the side to support themselves.


Actually it not the Somali warlords who are behind the pirate attacks. It local fisherman who loss out to other countries fishing vessels who raped Somali seas of fish stocks as they were ungovern by catch quotas like many other seas, especially the European Union control fisheries where many of these vessels originated from, many of them were Spanish and Portuguese.

Sorry, but you're a bit misinformed on this; Who are Somalia's pirates? (http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Africa/2008/1120/p25s22-woaf.html):

"Today's pirates are mainly fighters for Somalia's many warlord factions, who have fought each other for control of the country since the collapse of the Siad Barre government in 1991."


Look at the drug cartels in Mexico do,they attack an kill anyone who get in there way government officials, army, intelligence services, civilians. The Lucian alliance are much close related to those guys than Somali pirates or Taliban.

They attack Mexican officials and governments. If they started attacking the Pentagon, they know damn well how the US would respond. Look what happened when another group of people attacked the Pentagon (and the World Trade Center). I can buy stupidity from religious extremists; not from businessmen who would have needed intelligence, cunning, and guile to rise to the top.


An the Lucian alliance is not fighting Earth because of what earth is now they are fighting earth for what earth is becoming a galactic super power with technology and weapons that substantially out classed there own. Who is rapidly expanding its operations and got access to even more advance technology. They may not stopped little ol warlords just yet but they the most likely to form a galaxy wide government in the short term.

You seriously buy this? That Earth would form a galaxy wide government? They can't even get along very well with the Jaffa, and they worked closely together with them! And even if this was the case, it's still stupid to attack Earth; the last thing you want to do is create an enemy for yourself. Do you go out of your way to deliberately create enemies by attacking people? I'm sure the sane people of this forum don't. If you wouldn't... why would the LA?

Maybe there is a good reason, but at this point, I doubt it. I can pretty much tell because they never showed us any of that supposed "intel" they were getting from the LA people on board. We keep hearing about how it's good stuff, but how can it be, when it was also clear that none of them knew anything? What exactly were the LA people saying? Varro pretty much said it: they didn't know anything. Which puts the lie to the supposed "good intel" they were getting.

It's the elephant in the room no one wants to address, and bad writing, plain and simple. And I don't want it to be bad writing; the SG series has come up with several good stories over the years, so if I'm critical of this, it is because I want them to do better, because I know they can do better.

mi_guard
March 22nd, 2011, 11:50 AM
sorry for my (stupid) question, but why is this episode called "Alliances"?

Egle01
March 22nd, 2011, 11:52 AM
sorry for my (stupid) question, but why is this episode called "Alliances"?Sort of alliance between Greer and Wray, between TJ and Varro? Alliances like... the Lucian Alliance?

:confused:

Kilgharrah
March 22nd, 2011, 12:07 PM
sorry for my (stupid) question, but why is this episode called "Alliances"?
So that's the first time u noticed that the episode name has nothing to do with the content???
Please!!! Most of SGU episodes are like that.

Egle01
March 22nd, 2011, 12:08 PM
Most of SGU episodes are like that.Would you mind mentioning some examples?

Lahela
March 22nd, 2011, 12:26 PM
Would you mind mentioning some examples?

Air, Water, Darkness and Light spring to mind ;)

Egle01
March 22nd, 2011, 12:27 PM
Air, Water, Darkness and Light spring to mind ;)But they did have something to do with the content.

mi_guard
March 22nd, 2011, 12:30 PM
But they did have something to do with the content.

yes, these were maybe even the most story related titles. :confused:

Lahela
March 22nd, 2011, 12:30 PM
But they did have something to do with the content.

I was joking :p

Egle01
March 22nd, 2011, 12:31 PM
I was joking :pYou joker you. ;)

The Destiny
March 22nd, 2011, 12:34 PM
So that's the first time u noticed that the episode name has nothing to do with the content???
Please!!! Most of SGU episodes are like that.

Actually SGU's episode titles are more clearly related to the content than those of SG-1 or SGA.
Air, darkness, light, water, earth, life, justice, space, divided, faith, etc. etc. the link between title and content is pretty clear :)

Egle01
March 22nd, 2011, 12:35 PM
Actually SGU's episode titles are more clearly related to the content than those of SG-1 or SGA.
Air, darkness, light, water, earth, life, justice, space, divided, faith, the link between title and content is pretty clear :)Maybe he was also joking. :eek::D

Kilgharrah
March 22nd, 2011, 12:37 PM
Maybe he was also joking. :eek::D
??
Does it look like I'm joking? Is this the right thread for jokes?

Egle01
March 22nd, 2011, 12:38 PM
??
Does it look like I'm joking? Is this the right thread for jokes?It's kind of hard to say when we're not talking face to face. So, not joking then. Would you mind posting some examples that would back up your earlier statement?

Kaiphantom
March 22nd, 2011, 12:41 PM
Would you mind mentioning some examples?

Off the top of my head...

Atlantis:
Trinity
Grace Under Pressure
No Man's Land
Be All My Sins Remember'd
Outcast
The Kindred
Whispers

SG-1:
The First Commandment
Cold Lazarus
Fire and Water
Singularity
Enigma
There But For the Grace of God
Show and Tell

There's more, but I didn't go through every season to check. As I said, these were just a few off the top of my head. I'm sure someone can twist a title to make some kind of sense given the episode, but at best, it would be tenuous. Not that Stargate is the only series to suffer from this; not all titles can be witty references to the episode or properly convey what is going on.

Edit: A partial "nevermind" as it seems we were talking about SGU in particular. I will admit SGU has been a bit better in this regard, thought we're only a season and a half in. Some of their episode titles have been a bit tenuous, but better grounded then past SG series.

Egle01
March 22nd, 2011, 12:41 PM
I get those, but he was talking about SGU episode titles.

The Swarm
March 22nd, 2011, 12:45 PM
This is how most of the stoned character driven episodes of the first season should have been writen. Its not the best episode but it was a realy nice way to spend half an hour on a Monday night.

Kilgharrah
March 22nd, 2011, 01:02 PM
OK, I'll give u some examples.
(111)Space
(113)Faith
(114)Human
(205)Cloverdale
Not to mention (213) Alliances

Egle01
March 22nd, 2011, 01:04 PM
OK, I'll give u some examples.
(111)Space
(113)Faith
(114)Human
(205)Cloverdale
Not to mention (213) Alliances"Space" had first big battles in... space. You're telling me "Faith" had nothing to do with faith? "Human" showed more human side of Rush. "Cloverdale" was set in... Cloverdale (Scott's dream).

Detox
March 22nd, 2011, 01:07 PM
I don't get why if the situation was that seemingly dire, why didn't they just beam out that entire section of the Pentagon into space?

I mean, they did it before with that Skyscraper Ba'al rigged as a massive naquadah bomb. And let's be honest, if the managed to beam out an entire skyscraper in the middle of a downtown city without the public knowing any better, beaming out a section of the Pentagon should've been remarkably easier in comparison.

Kilgharrah
March 22nd, 2011, 01:11 PM
Your last post convinced about Human and Cloverdale, although I never understood Human that way and I don't know about locations as cloverdale, that's y I didn't get those, but I'm still certain that Space, Faith and Alliances are irrelevant.

"Space" had first big battles in... space.
It gives the impression that it is their first time in space.

You're telling me "Faith" had nothing to do with faith?
IMO, it didn't. That's not my definition of faith.

Egle01
March 22nd, 2011, 01:14 PM
IMO, it didn't. That's not my definition of faith.They way characters discussed whether some higher power left the planet to their path isn't about faith for you? It's a perfect example for me. Anyhoo, unless you've got a massive list and those examples were just a few from that list, then it's hardly *most* of SGU episode titles.

Kilgharrah
March 22nd, 2011, 01:15 PM
I don't get why if the situation was that seemingly dire, why didn't they just beam out that entire section of the Pentagon into space?

I mean, they did it before with that Skyscraper Ba'al rigged as a massive naquadah bomb. And let's be honest, if the managed to beam out an entire skyscraper in the middle of a downtown city without the public knowing any better, beaming out a section of the Pentagon should've been remarkably easier in comparison.
You are right of course, but it wasn't done that way because, there would be no conflict in the episode if that happened, maybe Tellford and his people died and no one would be able to do this (so far we don't know what happened) and Homeworld Command had many important stuff that can't just be lost in space.
Although they could have beamed the bomb, the stones, Wray and Greer, but that is assuming that people outside are ok and also that would kill the fun in the episode, that is if there was an episode left.

Kilgharrah
March 22nd, 2011, 01:16 PM
They way characters discussed whether some higher power left the planet to their path isn't about faith for you? It's a perfect example for me. Anyhoo, unless you've got a massive list and those examples were just a few from that list, then it's hardly *most* of SGU episode titles.
We found out later that they were aliens that did it, so it had nothing to do with faith.
Clearly, there is difference in opinions and it might not be solved, so better left alone IMO.

Egle01
March 22nd, 2011, 01:18 PM
We found out later that they were aliens that did it, so it had nothing to do with faith.Doesn't matter what happened many episodes after that. It's about what characters did in the given episode.


Clearly, there is difference in opinions and it might not be solved, so better left alone IMO.Fair enough.

Lahela
March 22nd, 2011, 01:20 PM
We found out later that they were aliens that did it, so it had nothing to do with faith.
Clearly, there is difference in opinions and it might not be solved, so better left alone IMO.

We found out later. Later. Again, l-a-t-e-r. The people who stayed did so because they had faith, in the gods, the aliens or whoever. I don't see how anyone could possibly miss the connection. :S

mi_guard
March 22nd, 2011, 01:23 PM
can anyone tell me why when the alarm goes off Greer is keeping Camille back not permitting her to run out of the building and he himself is staying behind?

Lahela
March 22nd, 2011, 01:26 PM
can anyone tell me why when the alarm goes off Greer is keeping Camille back not permitting her to run out of the building and he himself is staying behind?

I assumed he was trying to put her somewhere safe (under the desk) because they could have blindly run into bigger trouble.

Kilgharrah
March 22nd, 2011, 01:26 PM
can anyone tell me why when the alarm goes off Greer is keeping Camille back not permitting her to run out of the building and he himself is staying behind?
I think he was trying to protect her. People outside the room died. The only one who was alive came after it happened. I'm talking about the Lucian alliance pilot in disguise.

mi_guard
March 22nd, 2011, 01:28 PM
I assumed he was trying to put her somewhere safe (under the desk) because they could have blindly run into bigger trouble.


I think he was trying to protect her. People outside the room died. The only one who was alive came after it happened. I'm talking about the Lucian alliance pilot in disguise.
okay, thank you, good point

Captain Mariah
March 22nd, 2011, 01:28 PM
I was GLUED to the television last night. Not because I cared about what happened to the SGU people but because I wanted to see what was happening on Earth. Too bad we'll probably never see the SG-1 movie, which this episode was likely set up to show the SGU side of.

Disguested isn't a strong enough word to describe why we didn't hear the slightest iota of information on the HEAD of the facility that was hit or where Earth's fleet might be.

I think that was made on purpose. We didn't get much info because the either they are saving that for future series (I wish.. ) or they are leaving us with the dispense because its a plot event. Something to use on Destiny. They are cut off from Earth. they know Earth has been attacked. Did they survive or do they have a full blown war on the hands? Have the Stargate program been revealed to the public..?? Lots of questions. Its horrible not to know isn't.. but I think that is the point.

I would have loved to see another show following this event, the revelation of the Stargate program. A war with the Alliance and all that..

Anyway, great episode.

I wish this wasn't the end of SGU. I love these characters (actress/actors) and stories, its not fair... Can't SGU continue as webisodes (just like Sanctuary started?)

Kilgharrah
March 22nd, 2011, 02:08 PM
OMG, I just realized something. I realized what might happen in the future in order to contact Destiny.
I tried to connect everything and I thought about the Atlantis guest stars. What if Atlantis' wormhole device is going to be used to reach Destiny and maybe even get people back to Earth using Destiny.
Is that possible?

meo3000
March 22nd, 2011, 02:27 PM
This episode is the perfect example why this show is dead. It just doesnt make sense when compared to what we've seen in the past Stargate stories. Thats why many fans left. This episode pissed me off.

Stranded people are never left behind, still HC is considering it. O'Neill is running HC, doesnt make sense at all.

Although LA grabbed lots of tech and stuff, going directly after Earth, the civilization that befriend the most advanced races and defeated the most evil ones... they must have a suicidal wish of some kind.

And for the last time, Destiny IS NOT 1 MILLION YEARS OLD. The fact that they are still holding to their initial error just proves how pig headed they are. How can Destiny be 1mil if Atlantis is at least 5mil and light years ahead in tech.

This show is dead cause it doesnt make any (insert rude word) sense.

jsonitsac
March 22nd, 2011, 02:32 PM
OMG, I just realized something. I realized what might happen in the future in order to contact Destiny.
I tried to connect everything and I thought about the Atlantis guest stars. What if Atlantis' wormhole device is going to be used to reach Destiny and maybe even get people back to Earth using Destiny.
Is that possible?

A lot of people have speculated on what you mentioned in the spoiler. However, considering how the show isn't into quick fixes such as that (and they don't really know Destiny's position in space) it seems unlikely that will be employed.


This episode is the perfect example why this show is dead. It just doesnt make sense when compared to what we've seen in the past Stargate stories. Thats why many fans left. This episode pissed me off.

Stranded people are never left behind, still HC is considering it. O'Neill is running HC, doesnt make sense at all.

Although LA grabbed lots of tech and stuff, going directly after Earth, the civilization that befriend the most advanced races and defeated the most evil ones... they must have a suicidal wish of some kind.

And for the last time, Destiny IS NOT 1 MILLION YEARS OLD. The fact that they are still holding to their initial error just proves how pig headed they are. How can Destiny be 1mil if Atlantis is at least 5mil and light years ahead in tech.

This show is dead cause it doesnt make any (insert rude word) sense.

While I understand where you are coming from I respectfully disagree with your reasoning. First it wasn't just Homeworld Command considering leaving the crew behind it was the US Senate, and since they control the USAF's budget they would ultimately have the final say. Second, the LA has been angry at Earth since they first appeared on SG-1. They want to establish their own little empires and are willing to use force to do so and probably don't feel they owe anybody anything for the fall of the Goa'uld. Finally Dr. Covel did say that Destiny predated all known Ancient technologies.

Kilgharrah
March 22nd, 2011, 02:45 PM
A lot of people have speculated on what you mentioned in the spoiler. However, considering how the show isn't into quick fixes such as that (and they don't really know Destiny's position in space) it seems unlikely that will be employed.
You're right and if these things happened, then SGU wouldn't have been cancelled. I'm just so upset coz it had lots and lots of potential. Why did they ruin it!!!!

jsonitsac
March 22nd, 2011, 02:51 PM
I'm confused, who is "they," and what was it that "they" ruined?

kudra
March 22nd, 2011, 02:57 PM
Solid episode. Nice Wray / Greer moments and the new characters were interesting.

I liked the fact that Young and Rush did a little de-brief with Telford at the beignning to go over what happened in the previous episode, nice continuity.

Young really seems to be backing Rush up these days (publicly at least), no hesitation when he says of other Telfords death that 'It was an accident.' and he defends Rush to the Senator too - and it was nice that Rush got to hear that.

In fact they're getting on so well I'm just waiting to see what the writers will do to throw a spanner in the works - I give it at most 2 more episodes of playing nice.

Kilgharrah
March 22nd, 2011, 02:59 PM
I'm confused, who is "they," and what was it that "they" ruined?
TPTB
Writers, directors, producers and such.

Kaiphantom
March 22nd, 2011, 03:22 PM
Second, the LA has been angry at Earth since they first appeared on SG-1. They want to establish their own little empires and are willing to use force to do so and probably don't feel they owe anybody anything for the fall of the Goa'uld. Finally Dr. Covel did say that Destiny predated all known Ancient technologies.

Thus proving Sci Fi Writers Have No Sense of Scale. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SciFiWritersHaveNoSenseOfScale)

"Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space."
Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
English humorist & science fiction novelist (1952 - 2001)

Adams had it right; very few people can grasp just how big space is. So here's the thing: there is enough room for everyone. There is more than enough space and planets out there. The LA can establish their own section of the galaxy far from Earth, and never have to deal with them. They could send in brainwashed spies occasionally just to see what they are up to, but this is why attacking Earth is dumb as hell. I don't know how else I can say it, but then again, people have very little clue as to just how big space is. You'd think the writers would know this, given how far away they put Destiny, but apparently not.

This is my biggest beef with all the movies like Independence Day and Signs, where aliens come to take over Earth. Why? Earth has no special resources. Indeed, there are 7 or 8 other planets and various moons in our own system that has everything we do... and you can get it without having to deal with Earthlings. Sure, I like a good, fun, mindless action movie like Independence day; but when a show goes serious like SGU, the bar for expectations goes up.

morbosfist
March 22nd, 2011, 04:09 PM
The thing about space in Stargate is that it's a lot easier to get to when there's a convenient ring that transports people across the galaxy no questions asked. Add on to that the fact that the Lucian Alliance is pretty much limited to former Goa'uld worlds; as you pointed out, space is pretty big, big enough that finding a random world that can support life would be difficult at best. Take those factors into account, as well as the fact that Earth has been a huge pain in the ass, and trying to push them out of the picture isn't such a bad idea.

Frankly, I'm more curious as to why Earth hasn't just dealt with this. They obviously have enough spies to know how to infiltrate the group. Nuke a few major bases to show them we aren't taking their crap instead of just sabotaging kassa shipments.

s09119
March 22nd, 2011, 04:21 PM
It has nothing to do with the Lucian Alliance needing space and everything to do with the fact that Earth is trying to exterminate them.

latvian_stargatefan
March 22nd, 2011, 04:46 PM
This episode is the perfect example why this show is dead. It just doesnt make sense when compared to what we've seen in the past Stargate stories. Thats why many fans left. This episode pissed me off.

Stranded people are never left behind, still HC is considering it. O'Neill is running HC, doesnt make sense at all.

Although LA grabbed lots of tech and stuff, going directly after Earth, the civilization that befriend the most advanced races and defeated the most evil ones... they must have a suicidal wish of some kind.

And for the last time, Destiny IS NOT 1 MILLION YEARS OLD. The fact that they are still holding to their initial error just proves how pig headed they are. How can Destiny be 1mil if Atlantis is at least 5mil and light years ahead in tech.

This show is dead cause it doesnt make any (insert rude word) sense.

Come on! You sound like a typical sci-fi nerd. People are ''never left behind"... you sound like a writer of that one Stargate audiobook where one guy was dragging the dead body of Daniel Jackson (or someone) while getting killed in the process whispering "we never leave our people behind" or sth. It's just a clichee line, just try not to leave anyone behind in real life where there's big politics, money or wartime situation? I understand that it's a noble idea but it's for teenagers and people who love movies like "Pearl Harbor"...

About LA. I constantly don't understand why people are overestimating Earth. It's not Star Trek Federation-like galactic power. it has a few ships and few small bases off-world and Earth that still uses inferior technology in order to keep Stargate program a secret. The thing is- Earth cannot beat LA because it simply has no resources. It would be like going against Iraq with 6 Abrams tanks- for smaller operations it's ok but full scale war and eradication of the LA???. Sure, the tech is better than the one LA is having but LA controls 100s of worlds maybe and Earth has how many ships and personell???? Earth destroyed those races not because of superior firepower but because of their brain. But in this case humans (Earth) are going up against other humans (LA)....

About Destiny's age- of course it's older but... the writers have come up, in the past, with riduculous numbers that would make Destiny be like 50 millions years old or sth. As this number is ridiculously large, they don't advertize the timeline that much in SGU. It's not the first time that franchise bends its timeline or rules because they've created ridiculous things in the past. Trek has done it numerous times with different measurments etc. It's also why they couldn't just beam them out of the Pentagon. The writers are doing a more realistic show and don't focus that much on all the shiny technologies and stuff they have introduced in the previous series. I understand that some might not like it but that's life. Therefore we don't see much beaming in everyday situation, people die and are invalids instead of using healing devices, Destiny (altough predates Pegasus and Milky Way Ancients) is at best only million years old etc. You can't make drama out of constant beaming in and out and reviving people using Goua'uld sarcophagus (that they got rid of long time ago, already in SG1)

Ian-S
March 22nd, 2011, 05:10 PM
I wonder what was in the file Wray was about to pickup when the LA pilot grabbed her?

jsonitsac
March 22nd, 2011, 05:29 PM
So will the LA be doing 9/11 style attacks from now on? If so how do you really stop that? I mean its not like the TSA could make people getting into Goa'uld Cargo ships go through the security screening that we have to deal with in the post 9/11 world. Now, arguably, much of the pre-9/11 Al Qaeda doesn't exist anymore thanks to a lot of those UAV attacks on their leadership. So would this mean that Earth would then be "figthing them over there so we don't have to fight them here?"

the fifth man
March 22nd, 2011, 06:04 PM
This was a pretty solid episode. Not the best of the season by any stretch, but definitely enjoyable.

morbosfist
March 22nd, 2011, 07:09 PM
I wonder what was in the file Wray was about to pickup when the LA pilot grabbed her?That wasn't Wray trying to pick up a file. That was Evans grabbing a pen out of the desk to hold Wray hostage with.

Krisz
March 22nd, 2011, 08:02 PM
That wasn't Wray trying to pick up a file. That was Evans grabbing a pen out of the desk to hold Wray hostage with.

Aaah, the pen is mightier than sword' of course!!!! :P

Bit of a mixed bag this episode for me. I can't understand why Home World Command would be so vulnerable to attack! They've got advanced alien technology, you'd think they'd have some sensors to pick up LA ships coming in cloaked by now, I'm sure they can detect them in some way. Or maybe this is a convenient thing that hasn't been suddenly discovered and put into operation by McKay!

The character moments were good as always for SGU and the questionable use of someone else's body to be the hero in was a nice touch. Discovering that your body is dying and you have to go back and die in it is a horrible thought. Makes Dr Covel's action with sabotaging the stones almost understandable. It was not his choice to be in that situation. SGU certainly does morally questionable acts well.

Still, this was not one of my favourite episodes of the season, I'm fed up with the Lucian Alliance thing to be honest. I want to see more about the Destiny's mission and how the formerly mismatched crew continue to forge their unity in the common goal of seeing the mission through to the end. To this end the scene with Chloe saying that she has purpose on Destiny gave us a nice picture of what is gradually happening on Destiny. They've changed too much to go back.

Kilgharrah
March 22nd, 2011, 08:05 PM
Aaah, the pen is mightier than sword' of course!!!! :P

Bit of a mixed bag this episode for me. I can't understand why Home World Command would be so vulnerable to attack! They've got advanced alien technology, you'd think they'd have some sensors to pick up LA ships coming in cloaked by now, I'm sure they can detect them in some way. Or maybe this is a convenient thing that hasn't been suddenly discovered and put into operation by McKay!

The character moments were good as always for SGU and the questionable use of someone else's body to be the hero in was a nice touch. Discovering that your body is dying and you have to go back and die in it is a horrible thought. Makes Dr Covel's action with sabotaging the stones almost understandable. It was not his choice to be in that situation. SGU certainly does morally questionable acts well.

Still, this was not one of my favourite episodes of the season, I'm fed up with the Lucian Alliance thing to be honest. I want to see more about the Destiny's mission and how the formerly mismatched crew continue to forge their unity in the common goal of seeing the mission through to the end. To this end the scene with Chloe saying that she has purpose on Destiny gave us a nice picture of what is gradually happening on Destiny. They've changed too much to go back.
Actually, I think Tellford was in on it. He might have planned this coz he knew Wray and Greer would be on Earth. He hates them and it's a good opportunity and he knows that they wouldn't be able to stop the bomb.

General Jumper One
March 22nd, 2011, 08:55 PM
Actually, I think Tellford was in on it. He might have planned this coz he knew Wray and Greer would be on Earth. He hates them and it's a good opportunity and he knows that they wouldn't be able to stop the bomb.

Wrong, he didn't know Greer would be there since Young order him to go a little bit before Wray was supposed to leave.

senilegreen
March 23rd, 2011, 02:10 AM
Some rewarding parts in this episode, especially w/ Greer.

Yet I am also one who doesn't really care for LA based story lines. They feel too forced to me as the writers haven't established (in my mind) enough of a motivation on the part of the LA for what they do.

D Toccs
March 23rd, 2011, 02:29 AM
Overall I liked the episode, a few things come to mind. Wray theorizes that the LA plan was to land the cloaked ship on or near the building and then just walk away and let the bomb detonate, this makes a lot of sense and explains why the LA pilot was wearing an Earth uniform, also this plan would most likely have succeeded. So why did the LA pilot do a kamikaze run into the side of the Pentagon? Did he just not know how to land the ship?
As for why Wray and Greer weren't just beamed out of the Pentagon, it's simple and perfectly explained in canon, the bodies they were in did not have the subcutaneous tracking implant which the beams use to get a fix on their location.

SaUr0n
March 23rd, 2011, 05:03 AM
A very out of sync episode with the Stargate franchise.

I mean come on the Replicator fleet (who were basicly Ancients) were no match to 304s.

A simple example:
The Ori ships were no match for the 304s.
The Goa'uld ships were no match for the Ori ships.

Simple logics say that the Goa'uld ships are not even a mile close to no match for the 304s.

this was a serious error in the pilot too.The Hammond was taking heavy fire from Goa'uld ships? Really? Ok lets asume that the Hammond wasnt fully built.(which they could have mentioned)

Up to this point Twin Desinies was my favorite episode of the series.

It's episodes like this one that led to the cancelation.

If SGU was a show that wasn't related to SG franchise i am sure that it would have gotten a 3rd season,because it's ok.Everyone who is complaining(yes me too) are complaining because of the radical change of style.But comparing with the sci-fi and the action of SG1 and SGA, SGU is weak.And mind you the sci-fi and action was what led SG1 to 10 seasons and SGA to 5.Both SG1 and SGA had their share of drama,but they never forgot that it's a sci-fi show.Look at what happened in the first season: "they got on the ship.they whined a lot.they got water, air and food.whined some more.found out that the ship charges from the sun.whined.found blue alines.whined about the blue aliens." and that's it.

Also as a show from the same universe as two other shows who had comedy as one of their strong points, sgu is really behing.When the most funny moments are cameos of oneill... you should start asking yourself questions.

SaUr0n
March 23rd, 2011, 05:07 AM
Overall I liked the episode, a few things come to mind. Wray theorizes that the LA plan was to land the cloaked ship on or near the building and then just walk away and let the bomb detonate, this makes a lot of sense and explains why the LA pilot was wearing an Earth uniform, also this plan would most likely have succeeded. So why did the LA pilot do a kamikaze run into the side of the Pentagon? Did he just not know how to land the ship?
As for why Wray and Greer weren't just beamed out of the Pentagon, it's simple and perfectly explained in canon, the bodies they were in did not have the subcutaneous tracking implant which the beams use to get a fix on their location.

about the beaming.Dont forget the beaming tech can target the life signs.It worked on Shepard when he was about to fly the jumper with a nuke in the hive ship.Also it worked on the locals in Inferno.

timmciglobal
March 23rd, 2011, 05:18 AM
The funny thing is I'm usually really critical of sgu but I liked this episode. I found the wray/greere story pretty good and the discussion of what the rest of people see this intelligence as a good side plot and how dangerous the idea is.

I think the only negative was the la terrorism link because it hasn't been well established. Really wish they instead had the goauld or ori fanatics because the LA doesn't make as much sense or play as well.

Tim

General Jumper One
March 23rd, 2011, 05:22 AM
The funny thing is I'm usually really critical of sgu but I liked this episode. I found the wray/greere story pretty good and the discussion of what the rest of people see this intelligence as a good side plot and how dangerous the idea is.

I think the only negative was the la terrorism link because it hasn't been well established. Really wish they instead had the goauld or ori fanatics because the LA doesn't make as much sense or play as well.

Tim

It makes more sense to use the LA because for those who haven't seen SG1 they don't very much about the Goa'uld or the Ori

timmciglobal
March 23rd, 2011, 05:45 AM
That's only because the show explained them to it's viewers. You could of dumbed down the ori threat as religious extremists who are attacking us for perceived crimes against them. You would of had a more compelling enemy and one that made sense to existing sg1/sga fans vs the laughable LA.

Tim

jsonitsac
March 23rd, 2011, 06:07 AM
That's only because the show explained them to it's viewers. You could of dumbed down the ori threat as religious extremists who are attacking us for perceived crimes against them. You would of had a more compelling enemy and one that made sense to existing sg1/sga fans vs the laughable LA.

Tim

See, I think the LA in SG-1 was kind of laughable. But I think they've done a better job with them in SGU. Also, going with an "old" villain like the Goa'uld or the Ori seems kind of un-creative to me actually. Just relying on the same-old-same-old. The LA kind of reminds me of what the Ferengi went through on Star Trek Deep Space 9. Yes, the race was created for the Next Generation, but they were laughable and ultimately the TNG writers gave up on them. When Deep Space 9 started they included a Ferengi as a main character, altered or created new back story for them and as a result they became a fairly respectable Star Trek race.

lopo30
March 23rd, 2011, 06:14 AM
well by this episode we can see what can be sg1 movie about ... fight ageinst the LA ...
btw if there is a LA then where is vampires ? lucians are like warevolf's in mythology and they fight with vamps so vamps were goa'uld ?

but still is strange to see LA attack earth while earth have so many defence methods like atlantis and few space ships ... and they cant even peem the bomb out from there while they managed to peem full building to space in sg1 series and in sgu they need to disarm the bomb what is just stuped

Kaiphantom
March 23rd, 2011, 07:16 AM
It has nothing to do with the Lucian Alliance needing space and everything to do with the fact that Earth is trying to exterminate them.

Source?

Because this episode pretty much says that Earth didn't pay as much attention to the LA as they probably should have. And I can't recall any mention of Earth trying to exterminate the LA. Sure, they had an agent or two infiltrate them, but just because you spy on your neighbors, doesn't mean you plan to wipe them out. We scuffle with them occasionally, but nothing too major.

And you're forgetting that Earth doesn't have the resources to wipe out the LA. We're one planet, against who knows how many clans of brigands, pirates, thieves, etc.

Lastly, you took my comment about space incorrectly. When I say space is big, I mean there are millions of planets out there, rich in resources, as well as human and alien populations that Earth is still not aware of. There is no need for the LA to concern themselves with Earth. Their biggest enemy is each other (clans trying to take over other clans), a clan leader's underlings who might conspire to take over, or planets like Hebredon that are more advanced and bigger in some ways than Earth.

The LA attack Earth only because the writers want them to. Only because the writers want a threat to endanger Earth.

The sad fact is, they don't need an LA storyline in this. In fact, it would have been easier to do SGU without them, especially considering their "trying to pull in new viewers" rationale. Using the LA is relying on stuff the viewer should already know. Destiny itself should have the potential for enough story.

The only potential antagonistic thing I'd want to see on Earth now, is the reveal of the Stargate to the general population. And in some way, that could endanger the stone visits, and drive up an ultimate plot for the Destiny crew to discover that message and reveal it to Earth, thus uniting mankind at the end. Hell, having Earth descend into some chaos would actually interest the LA, since it would be a rare opportunity to infiltrate and take over, to acquire the juicy tech.

But we all know the writers will never go there.

Edit: And I just figured out a brilliant way to write the story and get funding for more seasons. Given the leaks the US government has had lately, it is impossible for knowledge of the SG program to go secret this long. The producers could talk to the US government and say they could introduce a plot line where some disgruntled member of the army puts lives at risk by revealing the SG program to the world with proof, portraying him as a villain. It would be great propaganda against Manning and Assange, heh. (Even though I personally support Manning and Assange). I bet the US government would buy into that.

Shadow_7
March 23rd, 2011, 07:56 AM
Actually, I think Tellford was in on it. He might have planned this coz he knew Wray and Greer would be on Earth. He hates them and it's a good opportunity and he knows that they wouldn't be able to stop the bomb.

I tend to agree on this. At least for Wray.

It could be that the LA is attacking because of what happened to Kiva. But then again the only one to come back from Destiny was Telford. Everyone else has only had stone contact and assumed precautions taken to avoid using non-earthlings for that task. Basically the only way for the LA to know what happened to their people is through Telford. Post Post-brainwashing / unwashing. Unless somehow the dropped off LA members found a way to talk to home. Or the remaining LA people have a way. Lots of unanswered questions for sure. But not unexplainable questions.

It would be nice to have a little faster paced story, most of the time. And less mystery / unanswered questions. Baring a highly predictable scenario, which a lot of past episodes have been. I liked the old methods of multiple story lines, and we're not as simple as season 1 was, but they could have thrown something in there besides just stoners and those who talk to them.

I'm unclear if the stones are now normally in the DC area. But I'd buy that they brought the stones to the senators, as a last minute / one time thing. Hence no shields or other advanced tech / protection of said singular building. But I haven't been paying much attention the that. IMO they're still in some room in cheyenne mountain. Except for this episode.

caribsci
March 23rd, 2011, 08:28 AM
The LA is a big threat to earth.They may not have as much advanced tech as earth ,but they do have more resources as eath is just one planet compared to the many planets that make up the LA.They are also experts at guerilla warfare and sneak attacks and a lot of them are decidated to their missions whether it means their death or not.Lots of Tauri are still scared to sacrifice themselves for ''the greater good''.
No one thought it was crazy when just 4 tauri members gated to one of apophis's ship in order to stop the Goul'd from attacking earth(come on now....4 people and only 2 of them were really soldiers namely Oneill and Teal'c)............ even when Brat'ac was asking them about their powerful ships..lol.all Daniel could muster was that we had shuttles.But we attacked these super advanced beings with just adrenalin..............now the LA got ships...weapons scientists that understand goul'd and ancient tech.....we keep messing with their cassa pipeline and then we ask why would they attack?

leiasky
March 23rd, 2011, 08:45 AM
IMO they're still in some room in cheyenne mountain. Except for this episode.


The stones have been shown in multiple episodes to be in the Pentagon with HomeWorld Command.

I don't think, at this point, the SGC is located in the mountain anymore. I think it's been moved to HWC.

Replicator Todd
March 23rd, 2011, 09:52 AM
The stones have been shown in multiple episodes to be in the Pentagon with HomeWorld Command.

I don't think, at this point, the SGC is located in the mountain anymore. I think it's been moved to HWC.

I hope the SGC is still at Cheyenne Mountain. Or I will be sad. :(

Sp!der
March 23rd, 2011, 10:07 AM
I loved that episode although it made me miss sg1 or general Hammond :( at least Richard dean Anderson should be beside Telford at earth. Otherwise it was a great episode and I loved the Greer and wray interactions. Wray is not annoying anymore I loved how she spotted the la spy... More and more I get sad about the cancelation when I see such awesome episodes. I don't understand why the ratings sucks when this was a such a good episode!

Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble
March 23rd, 2011, 10:56 AM
Here's what a 50 megaton blast would to to washington if set off from pentagon. BOOOOOOOM!! (http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/gmap/hydesim.html?dll=38.87079,-77.05605&mll=38.87012,-77.0751&yd=50000&zm=9&op=156) :D..

garhkal
March 23rd, 2011, 12:32 PM
Though I seriously doubt they nuked DC, that's a hell of a cliffhanger to leave us on.

That it was.. makes you wonder what they would have done with the ending HAD they NOT cancelled season 3, or stopped a third SG1 movie.


I really like the new character developments between Wray and Greer. I hope that they don't completely forget about that after this episode :).

We can hope they don't. BUT like a lot that has gone on, it might be stuffed on a back burner for now..


I spent the first 20 minutes trying to figure out who the actor playing Covel was. Once I figured it out I felt really stupid for not picking up on it sooner..

See the thread i started on him.. He always plays in comedies, but it was interesting to note he HAS stared in stargate before.. He played Feretti back in the Original film..


Uhg... Another stoner show... But it looks like it might be the last one of those... Assuming that the stones are burried and lost, or the bomb wasn't diffused. Or a half million years until their radioactive signature makes them safe-ish again.

It does make me wonder how they are going to clean them up so they can be used next episode..


Well, that and the radiation didn't have any effect on the stones.

Yes it did.. Thats why they could not disconnect..


I never bought any kind of valid reason for why anyone in the LA would attack Earth. I figured that at least any kind of straight forward ship invasion wouldn't be the way to go, so I reluctantly conceded that terrorist bombing (as floated by several members here) would be the main method.

The problem is.. it still doesn't make sense. The LA loses a ship(can they make more?) and a supply of naquadria(which there seems to be vastly less of that in the universe then Naquadah) and a perfectly good bomb. What does it gain them? Not much. Earth still has ships and off-world bases, and you'd just ticked off a major galaxy power; the same one that took down the Goa'uld!

Stupid, stupid, stupid, and I really hate it when a plot is made to progress through stupidity, whether character stupidity or plot stupidity.

BUT it does serve some purposes.
Look at all the Gou'ald/Ori/Wraith/Replicators. NONE of those made any lasting/massive impact on Earth. Just that one bomb would have out did any of those enemies..
Wiping out DC would seriously have crippled the US. Not just economically (look at how much loses we had from the BP fall out, or the Libyan crisis, or the tsunami in japan etc), but would also have neutered much of our higher ups. THAT and the loss of such a major city to our 'psyche; would be a morale blow.



Other side notes: It's interesting to see Super Chloe is still going strong. She's not as super as she used to be, and I really hate that they had to give her a convenient alien infection to make her useful. But at least she's doing something now, and not just serving the role of an efficient oxygen and carbon dioxide exchanger.

It is great they are making her into a proper character.. Full of ideas and capabilities.. Much like they turned Lee from a 'backround' scientist, to a major player.



And speaking of which, I really feel for those guys. I mean, they've been there all along, perhaps not as brilliant as Eli or Rush, but nevertheless doing a lot of the thankless jobs that helped save everyone's butts. And this episode highlights the issue quite nicely with that, "Um, we work here, too" line, heh. Sorry guys; maybe next time you can get the alien injection that makes you a super genius, thus proving that scifi convenience easily eclipse years of hard work. :P

It does suck that those two, who to me were instrumental in the past 2 eps having a great aspecting to them, that they were kind of 'overlooked' by the visiting scientist. BUT look at how many times Dr Lee, or Zalenka, were overlooked by others coming into the fray.


The LA are more like a galactic empire than a terrorist organization at this point. You're right they're profit driven, with warlord as leaders, which means an attack on Earth makes all the sense in the world given that the Destiny crew killed one of their commanders daughters, and Earth has (presumably) carried on disrupting their drug trade for no apparent reason.

Plus its never wise to let someone bloody your nose multiple times without some sort of retribution. Think about it. WE just took out one of their bases (where the LA launched their raid onto the destiny from), killed some of their senior leadership and have slowed some of their money making (sg1 season 9 and 10)... Other than the smacking of Iccarus (a hidden base) and the taking of the taking of one of our 304s, what have they really accomplished against us?
This level of counter attack, really bloodies us up, and shows to the LA's enemies they are NOT to be messed with.


Perhaps, but they didn't seem to do much for Jackson when he had his dose.


True, but he was also gotten to with a healing unit a lot longer after from what i remember (and sam was a novice at it).. BUT then again i wonder would have use of a sarcofigi made a difference??


IMO, shouldn't Homeworld Command have shield technology at its disposal? Certainly we have reached that point to be able to put some shields on a few important buildings...

Reasonable.. yes. BUT you have to remember most of the tech we have, we can't use in public, which being HWC is at the pentagon is most definitely in the publics eye..


It wasn't a stupid plot at all, as someone claimed. Had it worked, America's military and political leadership would have been vaporized all at once, and the nation and world would have ground to a halt for a while. Like Wray said, the plan probably wasn't to crash into the Pentagon, it was more likely to land nearby and just leave. Something must have gone wrong on the approach.

Perhaps the radiation screwed up the maneuvering...


Not sure why the LA attacked Homeworld Command. Surely a bomb on top of the SGC would be more ideal and effective(I assume a 70 megaton bomb could penetrate it).

Think about where Chyan mountain is. Now look to the surrounding area. Compare that to the Pentagon in DC.. There is imo a massive difference between the 2 in devastation. And if i was ever to want to attack the amt of devastation caused IS a primary concern.



And why have they still not got a big clocked satellite over the US with site to site beaming.

Thats my only gripe right now.. Why could they not have used the 304 beamers to get Wray/Greer out? OR even better, lock onto the nuke and beam IT out.


I doubt they'd have a shield over the building. I can't see the smarts in it.

Nothing says alien technologiy like a huge energy shield appearing over the pentagon. It's hardly in the middle of nowhere, it would light the place up like a christmas tree "Hi world, we have top secret conspiracy stuff going on here, oh and we have super advanced alien technology".

Precicely. There is just too much visibility on the Pentagon to have done something like install shield generators...


sorry for my (stupid) question, but why is this episode called "Alliances"?

IMO shortened from Lucian Alliance.



Although they could have beamed the bomb, the stones, Wray and Greer, but that is assuming that people outside are ok and also that would kill the fun in the episode, that is if there was an episode left.

And that is assuming the bomb wouldn't have had an affect on locking onto it and beaming it out, like it did in messing up the stones "disengaging" protocols.


can anyone tell me why when the alarm goes off Greer is keeping Camille back not permitting her to run out of the building and he himself is staying behind?

Mil training. First thing you do when you hear an alarm is wait to hear what is going on. Is it a fire alarm? A radiation alarm? An intrusion alarm?

raptor_jesus
March 23rd, 2011, 01:04 PM
I'm sorry but this episode is completely bogus with the radiation involved. It seems they managed to get lethal radiation poisoning without showing any symptoms which is just impossible. To get a lethal exposure level, you have to absorb radiation levels of 2 Sieverts or more. However, doing so will also cause vomiting headache and more. In short, it's impossible to recieve a lethal radiation dose without knowing it until the stupid girl who "talked to scientist" reads a geiger counter and tells you that we're all gonna die.

Futhermore, radiation exposure goes up with the amount of time you spend next to the source and the inverse square law says that if you halve the distance to the source, then your radiation exposure per time will go up by a factor of four. So if you got a lethal dose at a few hundred meters from the bomb you will be getting a ridiculous amount of Sieverts when you lounge around next to it having angsty conversation for an hour. If they had really done that they would be falling done dead within minutes, not relaxing without showing any of the signs of radiation exposure: headache, nausea, skin burns, vomiting...

In short, they should have listened to the lucian alliance dude and high taled it out of there. After 10 Sieverts your guaranteed to die but with anything from 2 to 10 sieverts, you have a good chance to die, but it's not a guarnatee. With medical treatment, you might survive. So essentiallly camille killed two people (one of them a senator) because she talked to a scientist once.

<Snipped by Moderator>

Kilgharrah
March 23rd, 2011, 01:08 PM
And that is assuming the bomb wouldn't have had an affect on locking onto it and beaming it out, like it did in messing up the stones "disengaging" protocols.
That wasn't radiation. Covel used the radiation as an explanation, but it was really him who sabotaged it.

morbosfist
March 23rd, 2011, 01:14 PM
That wasn't radiation. Covel used the radiation as an explanation, but it was really him who sabotaged it.Covel only sabotaged the enhanced command signal. It is literally impossible for him to have sabotaged it before then, because he never had a chance.

knowles2
March 23rd, 2011, 01:43 PM
While I understand where you are coming from I respectfully disagree with your reasoning. First it wasn't just Homeworld Command considering leaving the crew behind it was the US Senate, and since they control the USAF's budget they would ultimately have the final say. Second, the LA has been angry at Earth since they first appeared on SG-1. They want to establish their own little empires and are willing to use force to do so and probably don't feel they owe anybody anything for the fall of the Goa'uld. Finally Dr. Covel did say that Destiny predated all known Ancient technologies

Not only do they not feel owe anybody anything, they feel that Earth cause more problems than they solved and I believe one of them even said Earth should be doing more to help them and also blame Earth for many of the other problems in the galaxy. At least that vaguely what I remember from a previous episode.

s09119
March 23rd, 2011, 01:52 PM
Source?

Stargate SG-1, "Bounty." You know, the episode where Earth declared war on the Lucian Alliance.

sgc
March 23rd, 2011, 03:51 PM
Off the top of my head...

Atlantis:
Trinity
Grace Under Pressure
No Man's Land
Be All My Sins Remember'd
Outcast
The Kindred
Whispers

SG-1:
The First Commandment
Cold Lazarus
Fire and Water
Singularity
Enigma
There But For the Grace of God
Show and Tell

There's more, but I didn't go through every season to check. As I said, these were just a few off the top of my head. I'm sure someone can twist a title to make some kind of sense given the episode, but at best, it would be tenuous. Not that Stargate is the only series to suffer from this; not all titles can be witty references to the episode or properly convey what is going on.

Edit: A partial "nevermind" as it seems we were talking about SGU in particular. I will admit SGU has been a bit better in this regard, thought we're only a season and a half in. Some of their episode titles have been a bit tenuous, but better grounded then past SG series.

Grace Under Pressure - McKay remained somewhat calm/graceful while under the pressure (literally/figuratively)
No Man's Land - They were in the middle of the void between galaxies - AKA "no man's land"
Outcast - Sheppard was the "outcast" against his father/family

The First Commandment - He was in direct violation of the First Commandment
Fire and Water - It showed Daniel on fire on the planet while he was in the water.


I hope the SGC is still at Cheyenne Mountain. Or I will be sad. :(

Technically speaking, it has to be for the following reasons:

1. In 1969, they were sent into the future, where they were sent back, but the gate was in the SGC.
2. They wouldn't move it to Washington due to the obvious security/safety risk.
3. Cheyenne Mountain is a good place to hide a secret Air Force project and make sure that it was safe from intrusion and unwanted alien escape.

jsonitsac
March 23rd, 2011, 05:43 PM
1. In 1969, they were sent into the future, where they were sent back, but the gate was in the SGC.
2. They wouldn't move it to Washington due to the obvious security/safety risk.
3. Cheyenne Mountain is a good place to hide a secret Air Force project and make sure that it was safe from intrusion and unwanted alien escape.
4. It also would have been pretty expensive to move it to the Pentagon, besides, where, inside of a massive office building, would you put it?

sgc
March 23rd, 2011, 05:52 PM
4. It also would have been pretty expensive to move it to the Pentagon, besides, where, inside of a massive office building, would you put it?

Well, they could've beamed the gate itself and most of the hardware, personnel, weapons, etc, but that's not what the expensive part would be. The expensive part would be paperwork, having employees move (unless they set up an orbital space station that has beaming tech, which would be quite expensive), new employees, codes, etc.

They could put it in a sub-basement, which would also cost a lot of money to put in, but the security threat would be too great. If an offworld hostile force came through, they'd be in the command center of the nation. Very bad. If they had to do the autodestruct sequence, it would blow up the pentagon. Very bad. If there was a lockdown, nobody in the Pentagon could contact the outside (if it's that kind of lockdown), or leave, etc. It would make Washington, DC an even higher priority target for alien hostiles, and cover-ups harder. Imagine if there was a time dilation field, or another incidence of an alien entity (digital) taking over the base computers, then the Pentagon would also be affected. Very very bad.

BOTA:99
March 23rd, 2011, 06:17 PM
I just am not a huge fan of the stones tbh. I am not against their existence and feel they have a place in the story as they were introduced very well with sg1. I just wish they drew like a huge amount of power or something so that they can only be used very rarely or something like that. It just ruins some of the peril and cut offness? that they should be going through.

Anyways, just my 2 cents ;)

sgc
March 23rd, 2011, 06:18 PM
I just am not a huge fan of the stones tbh. I am not against their existence and feel they have a place in the story as they were introduced very well with sg1. I just wish they drew like a huge amount of power or something so that they can only be used very rarely or something like that. It just ruins some of the peril and cut offness? that they should be going through.

Anyways, just my 2 cents ;)

Well, TBH, without the stones, they all would have killed each other by now.

Kaiphantom
March 23rd, 2011, 06:40 PM
Stargate SG-1, "Bounty." You know, the episode where Earth declared war on the Lucian Alliance.

I don't see any declaration of war in the transcript. What we have is SG-1 hitting some drug shipments, although we don't know why they are doing it. But it's important to restate once more the fractured nature of the LA; it's a loose grouping of many different warlords and clans. Hitting a few drug shipments of one, does not mean a declaration of war on all of them.

And it's also important to note the proper response: putting a bounty out on them, which is more what a warlord would do. Other warlords are not going to go, "Oh, my precious friend is under attack! I must risk my own resources to help them! Of course, that would bring me under the targeting crosshairs of Earth, but as a pirate, I am well aware of the value of friendship."

General Jumper One
March 23rd, 2011, 09:22 PM
I don't see any declaration of war in the transcript. What we have is SG-1 hitting some drug shipments, although we don't know why they are doing it. But it's important to restate once more the fractured nature of the LA; it's a loose grouping of many different warlords and clans. Hitting a few drug shipments of one, does not mean a declaration of war on all of them.

And it's also important to note the proper response: putting a bounty out on them, which is more what a warlord would do. Other warlords are not going to go, "Oh, my precious friend is under attack! I must risk my own resources to help them! Of course, that would bring me under the targeting crosshairs of Earth, but as a pirate, I am well aware of the value of friendship."

I remember them declaring war after the captain of the Odyssey was killed.

sgc
March 23rd, 2011, 09:28 PM
I don't see any declaration of war in the transcript. What we have is SG-1 hitting some drug shipments, although we don't know why they are doing it. But it's important to restate once more the fractured nature of the LA; it's a loose grouping of many different warlords and clans. Hitting a few drug shipments of one, does not mean a declaration of war on all of them.

And it's also important to note the proper response: putting a bounty out on them, which is more what a warlord would do. Other warlords are not going to go, "Oh, my precious friend is under attack! I must risk my own resources to help them! Of course, that would bring me under the targeting crosshairs of Earth, but as a pirate, I am well aware of the value of friendship."

Stargate SG-1: Company Of Thieves - 42:50 "We have officially declared war on the Lucian Alliance (http://www.hulu.com/watch/115403/stargate-sg-1-company-of-thieves?cc=1#2569&cc-query=officially%20declared%20war)

I used Hulu Caption Search to find the quote. It's an amazing service.

Kaiphantom
March 24th, 2011, 08:41 AM
Well, that was a different episode than was provided before, so I see your point (although I don't support Hulu for various reasons and thus don't use it). But ironically, this episode also proves my point:

SLAVIASH
He has lost his mind. The Tau'ri will declare all out war on us!

Even the LA recognize what screwing with Earth will mean, which means it's a stupid plot line, and reveals that the writers still don't quite understand what a loosely-affiliated group of murdering, pirating clans led by warlords actually means. They are a disparate groups with disparate goals and interests; it's like declaring war on all muslims because a few of them blew up a building.

But anyway,the LA do apparently recognize that attacking and antagonizing Earth is a bad idea. So we're brought back to the same point as earlier: attacking Earth, further antagonizing them, is a stupid idea.

morbosfist
March 24th, 2011, 09:56 AM
Sooner or later there was bound to be a group that wouldn't see attacking Earth as suicidally stupid, and this is that group. Netan was never willing to go on the offensive, but he's dead. Whoever took charge in his wake is obviously tired of the sabotage and intends to deal with it. They may be biting off more than they can chew, but it's not like that is uncommon.

garhkal
March 24th, 2011, 01:05 PM
Covel only sabotaged the enhanced command signal. It is literally impossible for him to have sabotaged it before then, because he never had a chance.

True, he only messed it up after it was already not working.

xxxevilgrinxxx
March 24th, 2011, 04:02 PM
The people aboard Destiny will likely never go home. Many of them have chosen to stay and those that don't want to stay don't have much of a choice, as the previous episode proves out. So what now? Now comes the time when those aboard will have to choose where they stand, to choose their alliances, and they aren't the only ones.

Over the past year, the crew have gone from being opposing camps – allied to either the military or the civilian contingent – to being a more or less cohesive unit, with the opposing forces coming from without. The Lucian Alliance, the various aliens and hardships, this opposition has been confronted and dealt with but the crew now faces a worse adversity in the form of their own people.

This isn't the first time that Earth has tried to interfere in affairs aboard Destiny, but the events of “Alliances” have certainly sharpened those divisions. Not soldiers, not scientists, but worse. Earth has sent the politicians, the accountants and, in the form of Covell, someone whose allegiances can't truly be ascertained.

When I first looked at pictures of the Senator that had stoned aboard Destiny, I saw a strong, proud woman. I imagined that her role would also be a strong one. And then she opened her mouth and all I could think of was that it was such a shame that she was so painfully shallow. Of course, that was the point. Every time that the Senator spoke, she sounded disingenuous, picking and choosing her words depending upon whom she was talking to at the moment.

Perhaps at its most blatant is in her conversations with Chloe. At the beginning of the journey, Chloe was being groomed to follow in her father's footsteps and I have no doubt that with her connections, or at least her father's connections, she could go far in this role. The Senator goes too far when she says that Chloe's situation is a “waste”, especially given all of the things that Chloe has done so far and what she continues to be capable of. What would truly be a waste is Chloe being a mere politician at this point. It is this smallness, this provincialism and concern solely with the small matters of Earth politics as it pertains to themselves, that the Senator and Covell appear to bring with them. They seem to be, for the most part, incapable of even seeing the crew of the Destiny or of their mission, because it means nothing to them. The Senator's saving grace is that, by the end of the episode, she may be close to truly seeing the error of her beliefs and while the Senator's possible change in her personal allegiances won't change anything for her personally, acknowledging Chloe's choice is a kindness. There is also the last poignant act where, knowing she is certain to die, she runs the dust through her fingers. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. She has just seen the most incredible thing any human has ever seen and it's over, done, and her life is gone. All of the things that she thought were so important are wiped away – the politics, the bureaucracy, it's all just small potatoes.

Between the Destiny and the Earth scientists, the lines are also being drawn. Those on Earth don't seem to think much of those who are doing the hands on work aboard Destiny. It's always “the best minds on Earth” have done this, that, or the next thing, but all of that is done at a distance, not risking their own lives and when their own lives are thrown into the balance, those Earth scientists are found lacking. Whether it's the Earth scientists making a run for it during the first dialling within the star, or Covell's cowardly act of sabotaging the stones in order to steal Greer's body, Earth has shown that they are clearly not in alliance with the Destiny.

Rush, who has, over time and great effort, earned the respect of those aboard Destiny, even Col. Young, is shunted aside continually by Earth scientists. Eli, while clearly brilliant, is generally viewed as a child. The other scientists aboard Destiny are shunted aside entirely, not even drawing notice. This crew has been hands on, they have lived and breathed, and survived, aboard Destiny, long after the Earth scientists expected them to perish, and yet the Earth scientists continue to dismiss them. “The best minds on earth” pale in comparison to the least of the scientists aboard Destiny, at least where the Destiny is concerned.

Heavily featured here is the alliance between Greer and Wray, two people with a troubled history with each other. With everything that has happened between them, it does me some good to see them fully support each other in this way.

Their slung insults are important in setting the stage for how much they both have changed, for how much they have both opened up and become more than the small roles of soldier and politician that opened them. In the beginning, Greer may have been the image of the perfect soldier – no pain, no fear – but in episode after episode, he has opened up and become something so much more, showing an incredibly deep array of emotions. In being injured in the collapse, we are reminded of Greer's fear during the “Lost/Human” episodes, and the injury itself takes Greer out of the picture as an active participant in their rescue.

Wray has also moved far beyond the minor human relations official that she started out as and manages, despite Greer's jab, to get a great deal of work done. She has, as she tells Evans, learned a great deal from the scientists while aboard Destiny, but she's learned a lot more. She has taken a hands on role in her own life, rather than delegating tasks to others. She has become more than a mere politician and her continuing bravery has me cheer for her with every new episode. The two of them have sorely needed this time together since “Pain” and it was good to see them talk, laugh and open up to each other.

The Lucian Alliance is something I've left until last because it is the most obvious image that comes to mind from the title. The attack by the Alliance has been a long time building and so having a ship crash with a bomb wasn't a surprise in and of itself. Having Varro volunteer information on defusing the bomb puts him solely in Destiny's court, although I sense growing jealousy by Col. Young regarding the friendship (and more?) between TJ and Varro. In the last episode, several Lucian Alliance members chose to stay aboard Destiny, so their alliances are plain to see.

Which brings me to Telford. As with every episode where Telford makes an appearance, I can't help but wonder where he stands. Did Telford wish to be able to stone into his alternate body in case whatever plan at hand on Earth failed (or succeeded?) and he needed to have a body to escape to? Did he wish to stone back into his own body in order to avoid the stone glitches that outed him in the first place?

It is clear from events that Telford was brainwashed by the Lucian Alliance but the Alliance could have used the technique as a fail-safe measure, rather than a sole method of turning Telford into an enemy agent. In other words, what if eradication of the brainwash didn't change Telford's true allegiance and he is still a Lucian Alliance agent?

How else can the existence of Evans – a man bearing a clan tattoo, acting strangely enough that Wray could pick up that something was wrong with him – continue to operate at the base? Wouldn't Telford be aware of other Lucian Alliance agents, given his long-time undercover work, once he was no longer brainwashed? After all, he mentioned to Young that he had memory of all the things that he had done, so why not of all the people he would have met? He passed files on the Destiny crew to Evans for a reason and I believe that reason is that, brainwash or not, Telford remains an enemy agent.

Like many lines in SGU regarding Telford, I believe that the writers are slowly building up to a great reveal with Telford's character, tied to the Lucian Alliance attack on the base where they – Young, Greer, Telford, and others – were once stationed, and that was bombed when Telford kept quiet to keep his undercover role.

Sadly, there may not be time for this storyline to fully play out before the end of the season, and the series.

There is a lot going on in this episode, with so many questions and points that are being built upon to be explored throughout what remains of the season. The depth of the infiltration of the Lucian Alliance among the power structure on Earth, the secrets held by Rush and others, and some interesting developments with the stones, both from a scientific and moral standpoint, to say nothing of the ties between those on board and the fallout that is set up by this planting of small ripples that will be expanded on throughout the remaining episodes. As a story-building episode much like “Life” and “Earth”, this episode gets a solid eight.


Rating: 8/10

Krisz
March 24th, 2011, 10:58 PM
Great review Evilgrin! Nicely put observations on what is going on back on Earth and various peoples' motives and secrets. However, I just still can't get past the need for harking back to what the Lucian Alliance is doing in a galaxy far far away!!!

Most of the crew want to stay on board Destiny, they are curious about what the 'meaning of life stuff is'. Why oh why do they cling to what is going on on Earth when it has nothing to do with their real everyday situation?! It's understandable that it allows them to keep in touch with the familiar for sanity's sake, but come on, having 'justify the expense' bean counters and senators, and scientists who can only theorise and never get enough experience of Destiny's systems to make complete informed decisions, using the stones to come on board and dictate policy makes no sense.

At the end of the day, what difference does it really make to those who have to endure the real hardship and dangers of being on Destiny? That is what matters, not what events are unfolding billions of light years away. I guess I've really decided I'm fed up with the LA attacking Earth thing!

When there's so much to wonder about what lies before and within Destiny, I'm finding it frustrating seeing time from the last few episodes being taken up looking backwards. :(

xxxevilgrinxxx
March 25th, 2011, 06:49 AM
I think that being able to defend Earth in some way still rings true for much of the military on board, but you're absolutely right about the bean-counters and policy scientists. They are completely useless and in fact, dangerous, for the Destiny crew. But this is where "alliances" also comes in: Those same bean counters have proven that they're certainly not Destiny's allies.

and thank you!

kudra
March 25th, 2011, 12:25 PM
Well, that was a different episode than was provided before, so I see your point (although I don't support Hulu for various reasons and thus don't use it). But ironically, this episode also proves my point:

But anyway,the LA do apparently recognize that attacking and antagonizing Earth is a bad idea. So we're brought back to the same point as earlier: attacking Earth, further antagonizing them, is a stupid idea.

But in real life this happens all the time. People do stupid things, take risks, make bad decisions and actions have unforseen consequences. Bin Laden was backed by Saudis and aided by certain Afghani warlords yet after he attacked the USA the US and UK ended up invading the whole of Afghanistan (and for some reason Iraq which had nothing to do with Al Qaeda).

What about Muammar Gadaffi? He's basically a war lord backed by a particular clan and has spent years ticking off powerful enemies - playing with fire and for years he's got away with it.

Governments often get it wrong too - remember Pearl Harbour - With hindsight it was hugely risky for Japan to attack a major power like the USA with all the manpower and resorces the US would have at their disposal when they retaliated but at the time it must have seemed like a smart move.

Leaders be they politicians or criminals do stuff this supid all the time.

Basically what I'm saying is that when people in TV shows do the smart and rational thing is when you should complain that it's unrealistsic.

Kaiphantom
March 25th, 2011, 04:35 PM
You'd have to understand the concept of why wars happen in the first place: resources. Things on Earth are a bit different in that all land has been claimed, while space is vast enough that there are plenty of resources unclaimed out there. The equivalent would be me giving you an entire planet to yourself, that's peaceful and with plenty of food and water and whatever else you need.

And then you go up and smack the only beehive on the entire planet.

Also, people like Gaddafi were rather smart early on to take and hold power. It's only later in life where dictators get increasingly divorced from reality, and Gaddafi has been in power for 40 years(he's old, too). The LA clans have just formed, so their particular leaders shouldn't be quite so dumb quite yet. Given the choice of what to take over (Earth or another clan), the choice should be obvious: another clan.

I'm not sure you quite understand how much mind-boggling, drool-inducing stupidity is required for these LA leaders to come to this decision, especially because their own members realize it is.

You know, part of the reason the US has been targeted in the past, is because of the perception that the US was a paper tiger; that it wouldn't take much to get them to capitulate. WW2 Japan is not comparable to the LA, because it had an army of equal power, and Pearl Harbor was actually a great move. There were only a couple of things they did wrong, when you study that scenario, that would have dealt a far more crippling blow to the US.

In short, "survival of the fittest" is the phrase of the day here. Those who are stupid should be quickly weeded out. Those who are smart will gain and hold onto power.

HathorKree!
March 25th, 2011, 09:45 PM
I liked this episode. It was kind of nice to get a breather after the pace of the last two episodes. I liked that they went back to character development for a bit. There was too much running around before.

Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble
March 26th, 2011, 08:47 AM
If any group earthbound or not destroyed the command structure of the worlds only superpower we would think about capitulation IMO.

morbosfist
March 26th, 2011, 11:44 AM
You have to realize how difficult it would be to pull such a thing off. Bombing the Pentagon and probably DC would be very bad, no doubt, but capitulation would not be the first thing on the mind of whoever took over. Violent retaliation would. If the Lucian Alliance actually succeeded, worlds would burn when the military decided to stop pulling punches and start nuking bases.

garhkal
March 26th, 2011, 02:44 PM
This isn't the first time that Earth has tried to interfere in affairs aboard Destiny, but the events of “Alliances” have certainly sharpened those divisions. Not soldiers, not scientists, but worse. Earth has sent the politicians, the accountants and, in the form of Covell, someone whose allegiances can't truly be ascertained.

That is an interesting POV.. We know telford was (when still brainwashed) tring to take over from young at times, as well as potentially would have blown them all up (earth). And now here is this senator who is mentioning that they might not even pony up more resources to finding another icarus base..


The Senator's saving grace is that, by the end of the episode, she may be close to truly seeing the error of her beliefs and while the Senator's possible change in her personal allegiances won't change anything for her personally, acknowledging Chloe's choice is a kindness. There is also the last poignant act where, knowing she is certain to die, she runs the dust through her fingers. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. She has just seen the most incredible thing any human has ever seen and it's over, done, and her life is gone. All of the things that she thought were so important are wiped away – the politics, the bureaucracy, it's all just small potatoes.

She did well to redeam herself by that act. BUT me thinks if they could save her it would do well for making her an ally for the SGU crew.


The other scientists aboard Destiny are shunted aside entirely, not even drawing notice. This crew has been hands on, they have lived and breathed, and survived, aboard Destiny, long after the Earth scientists expected them to perish, and yet the Earth scientists continue to dismiss them. “The best minds on earth” pale in comparison to the least of the scientists aboard Destiny, at least where the Destiny is concerned.

Good point. With all the learning and on hands experience that Brody, Volkar and parks have had, you would have thought that Cavel would have at least given them a nod.. not just dismissed them completely.



Having Varro volunteer information on defusing the bomb puts him solely in Destiny's court, although I sense growing jealousy by Col. Young regarding the friendship (and more?) between TJ and Varro. In the last episode, several Lucian Alliance members chose to stay aboard Destiny, so their alliances are plain to see.

I wonder if/when we might see TJ/Varro asking for young to consent to their seeing one another... And he has fully shown his loyalty to the crew/people of the Destiny/sgc..


How else can the existence of Evans – a man bearing a clan tattoo, acting strangely enough that Wray could pick up that something was wrong with him – continue to operate at the base? Wouldn't Telford be aware of other Lucian Alliance agents, given his long-time undercover work, once he was no longer brainwashed? After all, he mentioned to Young that he had memory of all the things that he had done, so why not of all the people he would have met? He passed files on the Destiny crew to Evans for a reason and I believe that reason is that, brainwash or not, Telford remains an enemy agent.


It does make one wonder, how many other 'agents' they have working in the SGC/home world command, and whether Telford knows any of them. BUT i think he was the ship's pilot, and had gotten into a uniform as it was 'coatched to him' as being his way out.. so he wouldn't die in the boom!

Pharaoh Atem
March 26th, 2011, 06:34 PM
preidible but still good

Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble
March 27th, 2011, 05:18 AM
I wonder if/when we might see TJ/Varro asking for young to consent to their seeing one another... And he has fully shown his loyalty to the crew/people of the Destiny/sgc..

I think she will ask for Youngs blessing but I don't think she needs permission but with being a prisoner (I think he still is) she may have to.

Petra
March 27th, 2011, 03:33 PM
Okay, I know I’m extremely late but here are my 2 cents about the last episode.

I like it. I wasn’t thrilled on the first viewing but Alliances gain with every re-watch. I’m also in agreement that for once stuff on Earth was more interesting that what was going on on Destiny.

As a Greer fan I was very happy to see him finally get some meaty scenes and further development and background. It’s probably not going to happen this season (or ever) but I’d love to see him use the stones again and visit his mom.

Shallow note: more pronounced stubble and purple cardigan that made Greer look extremely hot, even for his standards, didn’t hurt either. :D

My only complaint is that it’s the second Greer episode and second time it’s set in debris. Can we have a Ron-centred story that will not involve any kind of rocks/rubble?

I also hope that the grudging friendship between him and Camille will continue to develop. Man, I never would have thought these 2 can be so awesome together. More please!

Speaking of Wray, this ep officially made me a fan of hers. I’m not sure if it’s her stay on Destiny that changed her so much or if she’s always had it in her, but it was nice to see her do something heroic and sacrificing herself for the greater good.

On Destiny, Young was his usual awesome self and Rush continues to become more and more interesting and *gasp* likeable. I can’t help but wonder how long will it last. TJ/Varro scenes were sweet and made even more enjoyable by snarky!Young’s jealousy. However, these were the only bright spots in the B (or was it A?) Destiny-centred plot. I don’t know, there was something lacking there. I didn’t really care for the senator or Covell, tbh. In fact I found the senator mildly annoying although I can’t put my finger on the reason for it.

All in all, IMO Alliances is a good episode in an exceptionally strong season, bogged down slightly by the visitors on Destiny and no mention of Jack O’Neill when it was clearly needed. But these are minor quibbles. :)


I know SGU stands on its own two feet, but even within the confines of what they've established for this particular show, O'Neill is colossally important on the Earth side of things. It just seemed bizarre that they'd show an attack on the Pentagon and we wouldn't see the guy who's in charge of Homeworld Command.

Exactly. That’s my biggest complaint actually. I don’t think we even had to *see* him but 1-2 lines about where he was and what was he doing would have made huge difference. Given how Jack was established in season 1 as one of the major players (although off screen) on the show and seemed to be in contact with Young and in command of the HWC it just seemed weird to have him ignored completely in such situation. It pulled me right of the ep for a moment.


Off the top of my head...
SG-1:
The First Commandment
Cold Lazarus
Fire and Water
Singularity
Enigma
There But For the Grace of God
Show and Tell

There's more, but I didn't go through every season to check. As I said, these were just a few off the top of my head. I'm sure someone can twist a title to make some kind of sense given the episode, but at best, it would be tenuous.

That’s slightly off-topic, but I couldn’t help but comment seeing this list.

“The First Commandment” id for me one of the best titles in the franchise: it’s all about what the characters consider the most important. The first commandment for the delusional Hansen who called himself a god was “You shall have no other gods before me” while for Jack it was “You shall not kill/murder”; the last scene made it pretty obvious.

Similarly “Cold Lazarus” referred to Charlie who thanks to the crystal beings rose from his grave, so to speak, like Lazarus so that Jack and Sara could say goodbye. “Singularity” (the quality of being strange) referred to the whole situation on Hanka, including astronomical phenomena and "Enigma" referred to the Tollans (mysterious and impossible to understand completely).

Finally, isn’t “There But For the Grace of God” expression used when something bad that has happen to someone else could happen to you? Given that the ep is from Daniel’s POV, how is it not appropriate?

Egle already explained SGU titles. They really make sense, you know ;) Well, apart from Space :P


They way characters discussed whether some higher power left the planet to their path isn't about faith for you? It's a perfect example for me. Anyhoo, unless you've got a massive list and those examples were just a few from that list, then it's hardly *most* of SGU episode titles.

:indeed:


Stranded people are never left behind, still HC is considering it. O'Neill is running HC, doesnt make sense at all.

Doesn’t it? SG-1 talked a lot about not leaving anyone behind and they always strove not to do that, but at the end of the day they did leave behind a lot of people. So it’s not that strange, actually.


Although LA grabbed lots of tech and stuff, going directly after Earth, the civilization that befriend the most advanced races and defeated the most evil ones... they must have a suicidal wish of some kind.

Or they know something we don’t. Or they simply decided to use guerilla/terrorist tactics against which super advanced tech is useless.


And for the last time, Destiny IS NOT 1 MILLION YEARS OLD. The fact that they are still holding to their initial error just proves how pig headed they are. How can Destiny be 1mil if Atlantis is at least 5mil and light years ahead in tech.

It seems to me that you weren’t paying much attention. Covel stated quite clearly that Destiny predates everything Ancient in both Milky Way and Pegasus. :rolleyes:


While I understand where you are coming from I respectfully disagree with your reasoning. First it wasn't just Homeworld Command considering leaving the crew behind it was the US Senate, and since they control the USAF's budget they would ultimately have the final say. Second, the LA has been angry at Earth since they first appeared on SG-1. They want to establish their own little empires and are willing to use force to do so and probably don't feel they owe anybody anything for the fall of the Goa'uld. Finally Dr. Covel did say that Destiny predated all known Ancient technologies.

:indeed: What he said. *nods*


I mean come on the Replicator fleet (who were basicly Ancients) were no match to 304s.

Huh?


A simple example:
The Ori ships were no match for the 304s.
The Goa'uld ships were no match for the Ori ships.
Simple logics say that the Goa'uld ships are not even a mile close to no match for the 304s.

Your simple logic ignores equally simple fact that the capabilities of the Earth/Ori/Goa’uld/Asgard/*insert alien race here* ships were different in pretty much every episode, depending on what the writers needed them to be to tell particular story.


If SGU was a show that wasn't related to SG franchise i am sure that it would have gotten a 3rd season,because it's ok.Everyone who is complaining(yes me too) are complaining because of the radical change of style.But comparing with the sci-fi and the action of SG1 and SGA, SGU is weak.And mind you the sci-fi and action was what led SG1 to 10 seasons and SGA to 5.Both SG1 and SGA had their share of drama,but they never forgot that it's a sci-fi show.Look at what happened in the first season: "they got on the ship.they whined a lot.they got water, air and food.whined some more.found out that the ship charges from the sun.whined.found blue alines.whined about the blue aliens." and that's it.

Sigh. You know , I read a short story today from “The Solaris Book of New Science Fiction”. The story is set in our time and is about the end of the universe. For about 80% of said story mother and daughter talk about gardening. By your reasoning the story is not in fact sci-fi, because it lacks action/adventure :rolleyes:

Also, for the 100th time, the fact that the change in tone was radical for you doesn’t mean that it was for other people too. For me, for example, it wasn’t. Much overused by me “going back to roots” phrase springs to mind instead...

And I will refrain from saying something snarky about drama on SGA. I will. *wills herself to drop it*


Also as a show from the same universe as two other shows who had comedy as one of their strong points, sgu is really behing.When the most funny moments are cameos of oneill... you should start asking yourself questions.

Yes, you should. Starting with why you are unable to see humour besides Jack’s cameos. ;)



How else can the existence of Evans – a man bearing a clan tattoo, acting strangely enough that Wray could pick up that something was wrong with him – continue to operate at the base? Wouldn't Telford be aware of other Lucian Alliance agents, given his long-time undercover work, once he was no longer brainwashed? After all, he mentioned to Young that he had memory of all the things that he had done, so why not of all the people he would have met? He passed files on the Destiny crew to Evans for a reason and I believe that reason is that, brainwash or not, Telford remains an enemy agent.

evilgrin, wonderful review as always. *hugs and lots of mental green*

However, the fragment above has me a bit confused. I don't think Evans was a mole on the base; I thought he was simply the cargo ship's pilot who didn't manage to get away in time. He certainly didn't act like someone who knew the place he found himself in..

xxxevilgrinxxx
March 30th, 2011, 07:40 AM
Thanks for the mental green, Petra :)
I don't think Evans expected to crash, but I still think he's a mole and was worried that he couldn't get away in time, because he knew what he was carrying

Matt G
April 27th, 2011, 03:15 PM
1. Have to admit, I'm surprised Jack didn't show up.

2. Sorry PTB but I saw the Lucien Alliance agent coming from ten miles off!

3. Senator Michaels...doesn't have a clue what Chloe has been through 'or' what she found out about her supposed 'friends' on Earth.

4. Interesting to see French Stewart in something again though he looks a fair bit older than when I last saw him.

5. Covell could have been and I kind of see his point, it wasn't his fault that his body got irradiated!

Certainly an interesting ep.

caribsci
July 14th, 2011, 10:06 PM
Ok so here is my question.........Why wasn't the Lucian Alliance ship detected by Atlantis? They got long range sensors and yet a ship still managed to get thru?I know the ship was cloaked but it couldn't enter earth's atmosphere without de-cloaking?or am i missing something.

KEK
September 2nd, 2011, 07:33 PM
The commentary for this is hilarious, especially when they're diffusing the bomb. Jamil and Ming find it oddly sexual :lol:

maneth
February 2nd, 2012, 09:33 AM
:lol:

Good ep, but the Lucian Alliance airman was no huge surprise.

Goodness, if there's one thing I detest, it's parents who have "great plans" for their children. I really despise people who seem to feel they've failed in their own lives and take it out on their kids through misplaced ambition. Thank goodness Chloe managed to tell Senator Michaels that she felt she belonged on Destiny.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
December 19th, 2012, 03:56 PM
I honestly though this was kind of the first meh episode of this season. I wonder if it could've been a little better if you added a little RDA into it.

I still don't understand the whole timeline thing, maybe I'm thinking too hard about it.

Dang, this French Stewart dude has been in basically everything.

Tomorrow, a bunch of dead people come back to life.

ZRFTS
December 21st, 2012, 12:02 AM
Greer destroys Wray in this episode; there is always something about him not giving up despite the injuries he's substained that makes him appealing. Maybe it's the way he talks back to Wray, going against what she think of him; maybe it's the military mindstate that he has. Whatever it is, this is a true show of what Greer can do when pushed, it's not a character revelation as much as it is a representation; this guy truly is a reckless, fearless, push no limits person but with oddly enough, a heart of gold.

That's the only notable thing in the episode; much of it is a slow drawl of constant worrying and shots of hallways that are good at first (truly representing the damage shown) but become complacent. I could see the LA guy from miles at a time, I know that this show is supposed to paint a grey area regarding everyone but could they not put the effort into making the guy seem as ambiguous as possible, the way he was freaking out, showing his knowledge and trying to "fit in" was a dead giveaway.

There's also a sideplot involving Destiny and two guys who seemingly represent Syfy execs; I have to admit, there skills were interesting but they didn't do much to develop them from the generic tropes that they were, which were two people who were nice but wanted to see results; the communication they had with Chloe was by far the best part of the episode. Moral issues are raised with the stones but then again, judging by the way they've been acting; all moral issues are diluted. Think about it, this episode projects the disgusting idea of these people using somebody elses bodies without consent to live forever with disregards to Wray and Greer but these people are on the Destiny which they complain can't handle many attacks and isn't viable as a mission; they would be far away from civilization and the things they love, they would have to deal with the constant issues of the Destiny crew and worst of all, they wouldn't be able to feel at home at the Destiny. So this raises the question, what's the purpose of living if you're in a place you actively dislike?

I have to wonder if this was the LA attack plot Simeone was talking about... Even if it didn't go according to plan, it seemed really weak that they would attack Homeworld Command; in SGU, these guys are benevolent and they have to go for high-risk targets like the White House. They would also have to make sure they got past whatever the crews of SG-1 and SGA would have planned (if they still consisted of the same people) which could of been a lot more effective had they disrupted their ability to communicate somehow. Makes his death a lot less essential. At least it gave us some bonding time between Wray and Greer, facing the eventuality of death, giving a chance to communicate as equals, it does something for the both of them and it's oddly compelling character work.

Matt G
December 21st, 2012, 01:13 PM
Midweek, another ep of SGU...

1. To be fair, Greer and Wray were a bit reckless with Cavil and Michael's bodies.

2. Having said that...wouldn't Chloe and Michaels be on first name terms if they were that tight?

3. Forgot that they left us hanging a bit at the end of the ep.

Krisz
December 22nd, 2012, 01:42 PM
Every time I see this episode I can see French Stewart projecting his Harry Solomon character from '3rd Rock From the Sun', the scrunched up eyes, and his voice just reminded me of that character. It was hard to see him as the character he was supposed to be playing here on SGU! :P He was in the original Stargate movie too, although I can't place him as Ferretti!

Why Homeworld Command is in Washington DC, the seat of US government is just plain idiotic! So, all the Lucian Alliance has to do is fly a Naquadria laden bomb into the area their intelligence discovered they are, and, bingo they disable one of Earth's main powers in one go! What is wrong with Cheyenne Mountain, they would never get a bomb in there now after all the SGC learnt from past experiences?!

It's these kinds of questions that this episode raises that makes this the worst episode of the series for me. It's the use of the stones as well, the moral issues raised, the guy trying to stay in Greer's body when he finds out that his was dying from a lethal dose of radiation. At least the initially unlikeable typical Stargate Senator turns out to have morals and accepts her end, along with diffusing the bomb since she was going to die anyway!

The best bit about this episode was the destruction of the base, the way Wray and Greer were caught up in it and crawled out was really well done. One of the most realistic destruction scenes using real falling set debris rather than CGI I've seen, my hat off to the set designers, stunts and effects teams!

Lieutenant Sparrow
January 3rd, 2013, 02:02 AM
An okay ep. Not up with the best of the season.

I knew from the beginning that the soldier was Lucian Alliance. Too many signs. Not knowing the way out. Not knowing how to read a geiger counter. Being in such a hurry to get out.

The senator was pushy and annoying.

Camille and Greer. Now that's an unlikely duo.

Cavil was very cowardly. Trying to stay in Greers body.

Camille and Greers talk at the end was nice.

garhkal
January 3rd, 2013, 02:16 PM
While cavil was cowardly, i can understand his reluctance to return to known oblivion.

jelgate
January 5th, 2013, 09:28 PM
I don't know about this one. It is kind of weak. It is suppose to be an episode that tackles the issues of Greer and Wray but I feel it falls flat on its head. I don't really find them getting any closer to the personal issues that is between the two. It just felt of going through the motions of finding the bomb and disarming it. Feels like little development. The stuff on Destiny was a little more interesting. I think the senator shows a nice contrast to how much Chloe has changed since the incident in Air. Its interesting how much the scientist played by French Stewart is just like Rush as noted by Volker in that they both keep secrets. And I the way the scientist did not want to the break the stone connection shows a selfish nature much like Rush.

Cluas
March 5th, 2013, 02:11 AM
Wray and Greer. Good to see them more. It was obvious the airman was LA.

Not one of my favorite episodes...