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GateWorld
April 26th, 2004, 03:06 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s1/118.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/graphics/118.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#666666">DISCUSS ...</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4 COLOR="#006699"><B>TIN MAN</B></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 118</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/graphics/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
When SG-1 visits the underground warehouse of an advanced alien civilization, the area's caretaker transplants their minds into robotic duplicates -- a "gift" of immortality.

<B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s1/118.shtml">Visit the Episode Guide >></A></B></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

KorbenDirewolf
May 17th, 2004, 09:59 PM
SG-1 getting transformed into those "synthetics"... Nice plot device. However the truth of the sitution makes the episode much better.

Champos
May 17th, 2004, 10:29 PM
And the follow-up to it was good idea as well, I thought. It's always nice to see something revisited, even if the ending was perhaps not quite as good as it could have been.

Leanna
May 18th, 2004, 05:24 PM
Did anyone else catch the little "possible" flaw in the "Tin Man" episode? It was something the "real" Jack said towards the end. :rolleyes:

bcmilco
June 8th, 2004, 11:41 PM
Did anyone else catch the little "possible" flaw in the "Tin Man" episode? It was something the "real" Jack said towards the end. :rolleyes:

Okay, I give, what are you talking about?

Elwe Singollo
June 8th, 2004, 11:43 PM
Yah, i'm wondering the same thing... Plz tell :)

Dani347
June 9th, 2004, 12:26 AM
I found this episode very disturbing and sad. I can barely watch it. First, to hear Robot!Jack realise that they could never go back. To know that no matter what might have happened to his counterpart, Robot!Daniel had no hope of ever reuniting with Sha're. Robot!Teal'c would never see his family. Robot!Sam would never see Jacob. And, the worst thing was, they knew what they were missing. It was just too painful to watch.

Elwe Singollo
June 9th, 2004, 12:29 AM
Yah, it was tear-jerking, one of those moments where u have to change the channel :(

KorbenDirewolf
June 9th, 2004, 01:08 PM
I did enjoy the place where the first synthetic Teal'c broke down. Two minds in one body..

SG_Mike
June 17th, 2004, 12:15 PM
You know, I loved the advantages they had. Increased strength, stamina, and the like. Loved when Jake jumped down several floors taking a shortcut.

Newbie
June 18th, 2004, 01:19 AM
imho..it was a kinda wierd ep for stargate...but it was something different, refreshing , and yes depressing...the follo up was alos kinda wierd but still good... i liked it.

SeaBee
June 26th, 2004, 03:55 AM
Did anyone else catch the little "possible" flaw in the "Tin Man" episode? It was something the "real" Jack said towards the end. :rolleyes:

No, what?

Bagpuss
June 27th, 2004, 03:02 AM
I found this episode very disturbing and sad. I can barely watch it. First, to hear Robot!Jack realise that they could never go back. To know that no matter what might have happened to his counterpart, Robot!Daniel had no hope of ever reuniting with Sha're. Robot!Teal'c would never see his family. Robot!Sam would never see Jacob. And, the worst thing was, they knew what they were missing. It was just too painful to watch.

I feel very much the same way, about this episode,Dani ! :(
I have to admit,I found Harlan annoying at first,til I realised how lonely his life alone must have been. As for the Robot SG-1,I felt real sympathy for their plight.

I treasure the funnier bits,otherwise I'd never watch this episode again ! :S

Selmak
July 10th, 2004, 07:45 PM
I like how this story arc continues... and the robots try to fight the Goa'uld.

Selmak
July 15th, 2004, 05:49 PM
Harlan reminds me of Urgo... meaning they both annoy me.

aAnubiSs
July 15th, 2004, 05:50 PM
Hah, I enjoyed both of them.

Imagine what a 1000 SG1's could do.

The System Lords would probably scratch their heads too, seeing that many planets are attacked by SG1 at the same time.

Selmak
July 17th, 2004, 11:47 PM
I meant annoy me in a good way ;) ... I like both of them.

Selmak
July 26th, 2004, 06:15 PM
I found this episode very disturbing and sad. I can barely watch it. First, to hear Robot!Jack realise that they could never go back. To know that no matter what might have happened to his counterpart, Robot!Daniel had no hope of ever reuniting with Sha're. Robot!Teal'c would never see his family. Robot!Sam would never see Jacob. And, the worst thing was, they knew what they were missing. It was just too painful to watch.
It was sort of sad... but I'm not so attached to the characters to the point that it would be painful to watch.

Wyrminarrd
August 14th, 2004, 04:05 AM
Now while I can see that this might be sad (I didn´t feel enough connection to them at this point to really care) it still beats them using the reset button and having all the robots destroyed.

Major Fischer
August 16th, 2004, 09:51 PM
It just seemed to me that at this point in the series they weren't thinking very well about how the series of stand alone episodes that appeared in season 1 should be effecting the characters.

Still a bit flat at this point, and handled much better later when the robot doubles appeared again at the end of season four. The emotions of it, and the fact that they couldn't stop being themselves, was really nicely done.

Replicarter
September 4th, 2004, 02:07 PM
Comtryaa, he is soo funy. Though, i realy dont like smart O'Neill, hes better stupid. Good Ep

ABYDOSCITY2
September 14th, 2004, 09:05 AM
I liked the all of the plot twists in this eposodes. It was intresting watching how each reacted to thier "twin robot selves."

zats
September 18th, 2004, 09:00 PM
Still a bit flat at this point, and handled much better later when the robot doubles appeared again at the end of season four. The emotions of it, and the fact that they couldn't stop being themselves, was really nicely done.

Yeah, nicely put.

Sort of gives a sad new meaning to "you can't go home again".

Ouch.

Uncle Dick
September 18th, 2004, 10:58 PM
A wonderful episode from back when Stargate didn't mind being emotionally affecting and somewhat disturbing (particularly in the Terminatoresque infirmary scene). What was particularly fascinating (and devastating) was the application to the ethics of cloning without actually trying to make that point in a heavy-handed manner (like Star Trek would try to do). Probably the best use of the abandoned power plant set in the series. An episode where there are no easy answers and SG-1 can do nothing but proceed with their lives.

Lord Zedd
September 19th, 2004, 06:39 AM
What was that greet that Harlan always said combya?No that wasn't it,was it?

Cpn. Chris(tine) Bowman
October 21st, 2004, 06:59 PM
I loved this episode, it's one of my favorites. When they realized they were robots and then that they were actually copies...
I cried for the synthetics, I mean, they are in practically every way SG-1 and they were stuck in that crumbling down factory with Harlan... Great episode and I also love what they did in the follow up too. I wonder if Robot!Sam and Robot!Jack became closer since they weren't really USAF anymore...

Oh, and it's Komtraya :)

I love also how they keep saying "Bet-ter" with the hand gesture and all. It was silly.

zats
October 29th, 2004, 06:45 PM
I liked this ep a lot! It was really different, and I was sure that we weren't going to see the robots again. I was so happy when "Double Jeopardy" aired (or I read the transcript; I don't remember which) and then I was REALLY ticked when all the robots DIED. I mean, what's with that? Although I suppose that the robots needed to be reintroduced to sate people like myself, and did any of us really think that the synthetics would be able to keep away from the 'gate? Would you be able to? And once we found that they gallivanting around the galaxy, what would we do? Pat them on the backs and tell them to keep up the good work? I just don't see that working.

So basically, it was a no-win situation no matter how you look like it.

Lord Zedd
November 16th, 2004, 12:03 PM
I found the Harlan guy cool.Comtraya !! :D :D Poor doubles that they can't go anywhere.Ahwell we'll see them in Season 3 or 4 again

Elite Anubis Guard
November 18th, 2004, 01:39 PM
this episode really bored me. I found the whole thing annoying and tiring.

.:Lemon:.
November 20th, 2004, 06:21 AM
I didn't mind this episode. Harlan was quite cool :) I Prefered the season 4 episode featuring them though.

Elite Anubis Guard
November 20th, 2004, 09:53 AM
yeh same here, i liked it cos we finally got to see some action with cronus's force!

Lord Zedd
November 20th, 2004, 03:12 PM
two days ago you said that it was boring :D make up your mind :D just kidding

Elite Anubis Guard
November 21st, 2004, 03:00 AM
lol read my post. I thought tin man was boring but I thought the one in season 4 was good.


lol dont remember em going up against cronus in tin man! :p

Lord Zedd
November 21st, 2004, 06:52 AM
my mistake :D if it weren't for tin men we wouldn't have seen the way double yeapordy was filmed

Erik Pasternak
November 21st, 2004, 09:49 AM
I didn't mind this episode. Harlan was quite cool :) I Prefered the season 4 episode featuring them though.
Definitley!

Jarnin
December 5th, 2004, 04:36 AM
This is one of my favorite episodes, as you can see by my choice of avatars, but my reasoning is simple: Harlans race wasn't originally from Earth.

Harlan said that "Hubbult" was the leader and creator of the complex he maintained, but he died 11,000 years ago. That seems to indicate that Harlan is older than that.
Since we know Ra discovered Earth about 10,000 years ago, Harlans race couldn't have been transplanted there by the Goa'uld. That makes his race an enigma, unless you've seen the future episodes.

zats
December 5th, 2004, 04:02 PM
That's if Harlan was human--he looked human, but that doesn't mean he was. Maybe he was some sort of twistedly freakish Ancient.

Look, it's possible!

ShimmeringStar
January 1st, 2005, 01:50 PM
Got to go with Uncle Dick's post on this one. :) First thought was - OMG, they’re actually showing Jack doing that to his ‘arm.’ (Second thought was - cool SFX….)

But I agree with Dani & FHB, that there was sadness, because they robot/clone team would deeply miss everything they had experienced up to that point (family/friends/lifestyle). It was interesting because it was almost like an AU kind of thing with the robot/clone team having shared memories up to that point with the ‘real’ team, but then their memories/consciousness would branch into a different directions as a result of their own new and separate experiences.....

Overall a pretty good ep.

SmartFox
March 3rd, 2005, 12:12 PM
At first i thought it would be real cool to be synthensized. All the extra strength and brain power. Only bad about it i that you cant leave the complex, i would do like the others and kill myself.

OrangeShipper
March 4th, 2005, 01:58 AM
Komtraya!!!
I LOVE this episode! I guess I like heart-rending things, but seriously I thought it was funny! I love Harlan, hes hilarious, I love the way Robot SG-1 reacts to real SG-1 (Carters babbling science, 2 Jacks what more could I say?!) too.
I think that also, like Window of Oppurtunity, it's great that they can balance humour with sadness hand in hand in the same episode.

I love it!!
:D

hermajesty
March 6th, 2005, 04:11 AM
I found this episode very disturbing and sad. I can barely watch it. First, to hear Robot!Jack realise that they could never go back. To know that no matter what might have happened to his counterpart, Robot!Daniel had no hope of ever reuniting with Sha're. Robot!Teal'c would never see his family. Robot!Sam would never see Jacob. And, the worst thing was, they knew what they were missing. It was just too painful to watch.

I agree - i hated this episode. It was so bleak and disturbing. At first i wondered how harlan's "friends" could commit suicide, but by the end i thought that i might do the same in their position. There was no warm fuzzy glow at the end when they got safely home, because they never ever can. And whilst i like episodes that make you think, the thoughts from this one are just horrible.

PugGate
March 9th, 2005, 08:29 PM
I think episode goes under the "Disturbing and depressing" category. It sucks that they can never go back to their old lives and they are stuck in that factory because they are powered by batteries. The infimary scene with Jack cutting open his arm was extremely disturbing.

ApophisOfTheStargateRealm
April 9th, 2005, 04:28 PM
i did not like this episode at all...it was kind of depressing and i hated it when jack started cutting his skin to see if he was a machine... harlan seemed to be a little hoping toad that would not shut aswell...

i dont know. it just seemed off :S

QuiGonJohn
April 18th, 2005, 01:49 PM
I have a few items about this episode:

1. I read the entire thread and never got an answer to this from Leanna's early post:


Did anyone else catch the little "possible" flaw in the "Tin Man" episode? It was something the "real" Jack said towards the end. :rolleyes:


2. I read the Dan Shea was the O'Niell Alternate. Does that mean he was O'Niell for all of the shots where O'Neill was RobotJack?

3. I thought they missed a chance to add a couple humrous lines in one scene. When Hammond comes into the room where the synthetics are being held, and Daniel explains what Harlan did and why, Daniel ends with saying Harlan thought it would be 'better'. I would have Hammond grufly respond, "Better, How?", and then have Jack respond with "That's what I kept asking him".

OrangeShipper
April 28th, 2005, 06:45 AM
In answer to your second point -

I think the only time Dan Shea was the double was in the last scene by the gate. The camera angle is just behind Jacks head (this is Dan) and you see the other Jack talking to them from the front. The "back of Jacks head" is all Dan is, as far as Im aware. There may be other times though, but he's certainly not "Jack" all the way through!

Point 3 wouldve been great!! Im one of the few ppl who seems to like this ep (I love it!!) so yeah thats a great idea.

As for your first point.. Ive no idea!! Im intrigued now!!

QuiGonJohn
May 11th, 2005, 11:52 AM
It sounded like Chris Judge was the voice of the alarm warning in the station, but I can't confirm that anywhere, not here or on IMDB. Anyone know for sure?

PugGate
May 11th, 2005, 07:59 PM
They should've just put Harlan out of his misery. He was totally wacked

Believer
May 11th, 2005, 09:11 PM
I thought Tin Man was another great, under appreciated episode. This episode could be viewed several ways. One, it was a quirky twist on the classic story of Pygmalion, where the King of Cyprus, carves and then falls in love with the statue of a woman, his perfect woman, and the Goddess of Love, Aphrodite, brings her to life. In our story, Harlan brings the SG-1 team "to life", he makes them "better", perfect, in his eyes, and in his own way, he loves them. He is Pygmalion. Unfortunately, as is usually the case, not all love stories have a happy ending, as this one definitely doesn't. When the deception is revealed to Jack and the rest of the team, the only one who really has a problem with it, is Jack, both of them. The "better" Jack views it as a cruel joke and most definitely blames Harlan. He is bitter and frustrated, and vents his emotions on the perfect person, the person he is, the 'real" Jack.

I thought it was a great episode, because it explored some of the inner feelings of Jack, the troubling idea of being immortal, with no place to go, the thought of endless days, doing the same thing. And all the time knowing, you are someone else and belong somewhere else. At the end, when the "real" Jack tells them to bury the Gate, I think we all knew the Gate wouldn't be buried and we would one day meet the "better" SG-1 team again. ;)

OK, I'm beginning to feel like I'm writing a treatise. Sorry, sometimes I get carrried away.

Of course, you could view it as a trip to Oz, with Jack as the scarecrow, looking for a brain, Daniel, the cowardly lion, looking for some courage.....naw, on second thought, both Teal'c and Sam already have a heart, only Teal'C was looking for a way home, to freedom.

I'm finished. Aren't you happy? :p

ApophisOfTheStargateRealm
June 22nd, 2005, 08:32 AM
They should've just put Harlan out of his misery. He was totally wacked

lol i 2nd that :D

zats
June 29th, 2005, 04:23 PM
I thought Tin Man was another great, under appreciated episode. This episode could be viewed several ways. One, it was a quirky twist on the classic story of Pygmalion, where the King of Cyprus, carves and then falls in love with the statue of a woman, his perfect woman, and the Goddess of Love, Aphrodite, brings her to life. In our story, Harlan brings the SG-1 team "to life", he makes them "better", perfect, in his eyes, and in his own way, he loves them. He is Pygmalion. Unfortunately, as is usually the case, not all love stories have a happy ending, as this one definitely doesn't. When the deception is revealed to Jack and the rest of the team, the only one who really has a problem with it, is Jack, both of them. The "better" Jack views it as a cruel joke and most definitely blames Harlan. He is bitter and frustrated, and vents his emotions on the perfect person, the person he is, the 'real" Jack.
Interesting point. What I don't think the myth ever explained (at least not in the version I read) was if Galatea was happy having been brought to life. I remember hearing somewhere that it'd be somewhat disturbing to be deliberately created as perfect, and this episode answered that question nicely: very disturbing. Would you want to be perfect?

Incidentally, 'disturbing' is an adjective that seems to come up a lot in relation to this ep. It has some heavy implications in various sciences, as well: robotics, AI, and genetic engineering, to name a few.


I'm finished. Aren't you happy? :pTerribly. :p

Atteria
June 29th, 2005, 05:23 PM
Interesting point. What I don't think the myth ever explained (at least not in the version I read) was if Galatea was happy having been brought to life. I remember hearing somewhere that it'd be somewhat disturbing to be deliberately created as perfect, and this episode answered that question nicely: very disturbing. Would you want to be perfect?

Incidentally, 'disturbing' is an adjective that seems to come up a lot in relation to this ep. It has some heavy implications in various sciences, as well: robotics, AI, and genetic engineering, to name a few.

Terribly. :p

From what I can recall about Pygmalion and his creation, Galatea was not happy. It was a doomed relationship, for the very reason you pointed out. Perfection, as an abstract ideal is beautiful, but as a reality, it leaves you with nothing to strive for, it leaves you empty, as Galatea was.

As for whether I would want to be perfect? In the abstract, wouldn't we all, but in reality, never. But I have nothing to fear, as my chances of achieving perfection are slim to nil. ;)

I too believe Tinman was an under appreciated episode. It did bring up many other issues, if not directly, then by association, in particular, those you named. My primary emotion at the end of the episode was one of profound saddness.

zats
June 29th, 2005, 06:14 PM
The 'nothing to strive for' business would explain why in 'Double Jeopardy' we discovered that the droids had been off galivanting. With nothing to work for, the only options would be to sit and twiddle your thumbs for eternity.

Heru'urs_first_prime
August 1st, 2005, 05:50 AM
The 'nothing to strive for' business would explain why in 'Double Jeopardy' we discovered that the droids had been off galivanting. With nothing to work for, the only options would be to sit and twiddle your thumbs for eternity.

exactly

Stricken
September 8th, 2005, 01:40 AM
Whoo great episode where would we be without Harlen!

DigiFluid
September 10th, 2005, 02:21 PM
this episode really bored me. I found the whole thing annoying and tiring.

YES

Samuel J. Tilden
September 10th, 2005, 02:54 PM
I too believe Tinman was an under appreciated episode. It did bring up many other issues, if not directly, then by association, in particular, those you named. My primary emotion at the end of the episode was one of profound saddness.
I'm reminded of an excellent ST:DS9 episode called "Whispers" where Chief O'Brien is cloned. The episode is narrated by "O'Brien" who doesn't discover that he is actually a replicant programmed for an assassination mission until the real O'Brien shows up at the end of the show.

"Tin Man" was an insightful look at what it means to be human and the dilution of identity that can result from new technology and medicine. It's this kind of thoughtfulness that I've really missed over the years as Stargate has become less about ideas and more about explosions and one-liners. The moral dilemmas raised here and in other early episodes like "Holiday" and "Serpent's Song" may be "depressing" but the strength of Stargate is in the life-affirming moments that accompany even the most disturbing situations. Alas, we've been starved of "depressing" episodes for far too many years.

Metarock Sam
September 12th, 2005, 01:16 PM
Tin Man is one of those slightly tear jerking episodes which makes it quite a good one ( although the sequel is without a doubt 1000000 times better).
This also had the message that nobodys perfect and perfection comes at a cost basically one of those eps that just plainly sets moral standards. BTW it was funny when the 2 Carters met and Harlan Rules!!!!

walter_MacChevron
September 12th, 2005, 09:54 PM
I loved the SFX and emotion when Jack cut his arm and it was all robotic

AGateFan
February 20th, 2006, 05:21 PM
COMTRIA!!!!!!

I love this ep. :)

"It is .... better".
I am sure Carter and Daniel could live happiley exploring that planet, assuming there is more then we see there but O'Neill and Teal'c would be bored out of their minds. Too bad the others died I think they could have been a great resource to some fancy tech.

Pharaoh Atem
March 26th, 2006, 04:17 PM
i would freak out if i cut my arm like jack did and found out i wasn't human ..yikes

overall good epsiode liked the idea of teal'c not being himself. good wayt to mix that in with the whole robot thing

captain jake
April 17th, 2006, 08:17 PM
GREAT! mission I loved the entire thing very entertaining.

Sheppard
July 19th, 2006, 09:35 PM
i have got to agree with you their

Merlin's_Legacy
August 20th, 2006, 09:31 PM
A question that includes spoilers for season's 9 and 10:

Harlan's race is listed on several sites as being the Altairansand claims to be VERY old. Given the state of their technology and the age of the race, is it not possible that these Altairans might be the remnants of one of the first groups of Alterrans (Ancients) that made their way to our galaxy?

Purgatory
November 12th, 2006, 11:19 AM
1. I read the entire thread and never got an answer to this from Leanna's early post:


The real O'Neill adresses Harlan as Harlan when he wakes. However, he has not previously met/seen/known of Harlan.

deadmanjeff
November 15th, 2006, 04:38 PM
this is another great episode from the great first season of the great tv show stargate sg-1 the end is confusing i still don't know what's going on in this episode

Harlan's Speechwriter
March 17th, 2007, 09:55 AM
Hi everyone,

I'm new, both to the forum and to Stargate. I've only seen the original movie and Season 1 of the series so far, but I'm hooked. Unfortunately I don't get Sky, but I was introduced to the series by my best mate, known to you all as Chaka's Mum, who has very kindly been lending me her DVDs.

I enjoyed Tin Man, because there is so much in it to think about. Harlan is sweet, well meaning and, obviously, desperately lonely. Clearly, he also has a brilliant (if slightly crazy) mind. But of course it's so sad that the 'robotic' SG1 team will now be condemned to Harlan's existence and that the first 'copy' of Teal'c had to be destroyed.

Must admit though that I looked away the first time when 'robot' O'Neil started cutting his arm open and still cringe at that bit.

Chaka's_Mum
March 17th, 2007, 10:45 AM
I meant annoy me in a good way ;) ... I like both of them.

I know what you mean. Harlan has the same 'irritatingness' as Urgo, though perhaps not quite to the same degree! Could anyone be more annoying (in a fun way) than Urgo?

As Harlan's Speechwriter said (greetings, by the way :tecmate: - did I hear someone taking my name in vain?) Harlan is quite sweet - in an almost childlike way. He's not acting out of malice - but hasn't quite thought the whole thing through.

The resolution of this storyline is also pretty neat. But that's going into spoiler territory so I'm going to shut up now.:cool:

Harlan's Speechwriter
March 17th, 2007, 11:57 AM
Harlan is quite sweet - in an almost childlike way. He's not acting out of malice - but hasn't quite thought the whole thing through.



Harlan's almost like a child with a chemistry set - mixing things together and only realising the consequences after the big bang.

Sad I know, but I loved O'Neil's attempt at Harlan's greeting; Combya instead of Comtrya. Brings back memories of what felt like hours singing 'Kum by ah' in a round at school.:)

QuiZZer
April 24th, 2007, 02:08 PM
Am I the only one to feel horribly annoyed about a single thing in this episode?
Why, oh why would they bury the gate? It makes no sense, it's stupid, it's ridiculous, it defies all sense.

Here's a civilization more advanced than Earth, with a power source dangling from the roof (not to mention the damn thing has been working (nearly) flawlessly for at least 11 millenia. And the ability to build Androids, how can you give that up? A disintegration ray?

So much they could use against the Goa'Ould!

Or is it just me?

Note: Yes, I was so annoyed I searched for the forum and created this account to complain....

garhkal
April 27th, 2007, 12:15 PM
I found that kind of strange too. YES it was wrong of harlan to 'capture them, and copy them' without their ok, but when you are alone with little hope, somtimes you do desperate things. And i also feel we could have benefited more from his stuff.

First
June 6th, 2007, 06:55 PM
Here we have highly advanced technology, and Harlan is willing to share it. Yet the SGC never takes up the offer!?
But it is a bit sad that (at this point in time) they have these superb android bodies, but they can't go anywhere to make use of it. And they have to give up everything about their former lives (friends, home, job etc)

Too bad they didn't send Machello to this place.

garhkal
June 7th, 2007, 06:08 PM
Oooo... That was an interesting thought that MIGHT have made a difference... perhaps if they had the ability back then, to put someonein 'stasis' they could have done so with michaello before he passed, and it would have lasted long enough for them to get him to Harlans planet.

Harlan's Speechwriter
June 8th, 2007, 01:45 PM
Oooo... That was an interesting thought that MIGHT have made a difference... perhaps if they had the ability back then, to put someonein 'stasis' they could have done so with michaello before he passed, and it would have lasted long enough for them to get him to Harlans planet.

Harlan may be misguided and thoughtless, but he's a sweet guy. I don't think he deserves to get stuck with Machello. Machello would probably bully him.

garhkal
June 8th, 2007, 02:21 PM
True.. But who knows what other gou;ald killing tech he could have come up with. Heck what about the rest of his stuff we got... Other than that one ep where those bodies were found in that one chamber, we never heard of them again..

Theimmortaljedi
July 27th, 2007, 06:36 PM
I like this one! very cool sci-fi. WOnder if we will see more of thier doubles in the future.

Team SG-1*save the show*
July 28th, 2007, 02:06 PM
I like this one! very cool sci-fi. WOnder if we will see more of thier doubles in the future.

Have you only just started watching stargate?

I have put some info in spoilers so you can look at it if you choose. ;)

Yes we do see them again in season 4. The episode is called double jeopardy
See link below

http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s4/421.shtml - episode guide

e-dog
July 28th, 2007, 03:55 PM
I was wondering the same myself, about the SGC just leaving that technology behind. Then again, I viewed Harlan's Lab as more trouble than it was worth. I mean, the size of that place was just. . .overwhelming. The technology was having maintenance problems (and with the doubles around, that should go along more smoothly).

Anyway, the machinery in Harlan's lab reminded me of tales my dad would tell me from when he was in the Air Force way back in the day. He was a computer tech in the Personnel department. He worked with IBM computers that took up entire gymnasium sized rooms and it took entire days just to print out simple lists of information. Plus they were always breaking down or in need of repair. Point is, Harlan's technology did something utterly fascinating, but at what cost? Was it energy efficient? Stable? How much time would it take to fix every single problem? Maybe in the end, it just didn't seem worth it to pursue.

Plus, I thought they buried the gate because the doubles knew the transmission codes to get back? Since they had the knowledge of the Earth Stargate and such, it was just standard operating procedure to bury the gate?

garhkal
July 28th, 2007, 04:04 PM
One thing i do wonder is why they never though to use it more effectively.. EG let harlan copy dozens of the SGC personnel, so he would have a whole gamyt of people to use to keep the place up, and the SGC would have access to his tech..

Bekki
August 27th, 2007, 06:43 PM
I loved this episode. I think it was Daniel that said "we are all machines", although I can't quite remember the exact quote. It brought up the question of what it is to be human. This episode dealt with the morality of bringing someone into a world not of their choosing, which, even if it wasn't explicitly the point of the episode, is an issue that we will continue to deal with for a very long time.

That's what I love about sci-fi, and most particularly Stargate. Parallels can always be drawn

I would also like to know how the characters of the robotic SG-1 changed during their time with Harlan. Did Sam and Jack's relationship grow in the same direction as our Sam and Jack's? Did their lack of military status change the fate of their relationship? Did the new robot of Teal'c feel empowered by the loss of his symbiote? Did he consider it freedom from the goa'uld? or a new enslavement?

I wonder if Harlan's people had anything to do with Reece's people? Surely, more than one race in the galaxy can build machines, but it would be interesting if Reece was created with the help of one of Harlan's people who had left the planet

garhkal
August 28th, 2007, 04:16 PM
On your spoiler part, i doubt it as the level of tech of harlans planet seemed a lot more primitive from what we saw for reece.

Bekki
August 28th, 2007, 04:22 PM
Hmm, very true. Didn't see Harlan making any creepy 'toys'. Although he did make copies of SG-1. Let's not call them 'toys' shall we? Yikes, that puts bad pictures in the brain!

Theimmortaljedi
August 30th, 2007, 07:44 AM
Have you only just started watching stargate?

I have put some info in spoilers so you can look at it if you choose.

Just started with season 1 in may. JUst fell in love with it quick!:cameron:

cage_freq
September 20th, 2007, 05:34 AM
Com'traya has got to be the most annoying stargate word ever. But i like it :D

HelloVelo
June 1st, 2008, 12:06 PM
Any time you can get multiple Sams in the same room, you've got yourself a good episode.

Rating: 6/10

Full Review: http://stargatesummer.blogspot.com/2008/06/tin-man.html

L E E
June 25th, 2008, 07:48 AM
Harlan's people is pretty advanced to be able to copy the memories and personality of the real person. It's not cloning, right?Are they like Data of ST:TNG?

First time I saw this episode, I really believed that they were just transferred to different bodies. So when Jack-droid found out the truth, I felt his pain.

So yeah, I like this episode. It made me think about immortality and being human. I pity Harlan for being alone for so many thousand of years. He's quite nutty now, kinda annoying too. But overall he's a good, uh, being.

captain jake
June 25th, 2008, 06:35 PM
Can anybody tell me why we wouldn't want this technology? I mean I know it is morally questionable, but couldn't we modify these robots to not have all the personality traits of a human. They could be like an extremely advanced M.A.L.P. however we could program them with military training so they could be temporary foot soldiers for the SGC. What about commercial or governmental purposes? I mean Fireman, Soldiers, Etc.. I'm not saying we put it into mass production immediately, but we could have at least studied it.

captain jake
June 25th, 2008, 07:52 PM
(I have another question)

All of the Stargate destinations we had at this point came from the abydos cartouche correct? So if the goa'uld had knowledge of Altair why didn't they go there and take the technology from Harlan after which they would study and destroy him.

Now let's say for arguments sake that they had in fact already been there and Harlan had fought them off. Why would he not have known what Teal'c was? For that matter why wouldn't he have told SG-1 about it?

pritnep
July 29th, 2008, 08:33 PM
An interesting episode, I liked how we saw SG-1 come through the Gate from the view of behind the gate that was certainly different.

I wonder where Sam's mole was. :p

You'd think for argument sake they would of developed a mobile power source, especially given the amount of time they had and the fact that your basically stuck for the rest of your "life" which could be a very long time.

Interesting point captain jake, I guess it comes down to the morality/ethical issues of having copies of humans being around. Like the SGC really shouldn't of let them go given the that they had all the knowledge of their human counterparts but I guess it was a combination of the fact that the real SG-1 hadn't returned and the real SG-1 wouldn't hand over information no matter the price. I guess you could program them but given AI eventually they would want to learn and grow so assuming that no program is perfect and eventually they could advance beyond their program it could become a problem. But yes there really isn't a sound argument while they wouldn't at least want the technology to study etc.

I don't really have a explanation for your second point, maybe the planet shifted out of lineament for a time and the Goa'uld didn't compensate or maybe the Gate was originally on the surface (very likely) and they didn't have technology worth stealing at the time or maybe some other technology was stolen/damaged and all knowledge they had of the Goa'uld was lost. Although the most simply explanation is we are probably thinking to much into it and the writers at the time just hadn't thought of all these possibilities.

Black_Sheep
August 14th, 2008, 06:36 AM
Or maybe simply they haven't found it yet. Which is quite hard to believe...

This ep. was one of the most boring ones on season 1. Overall the season is awesome imo.

Pic
August 17th, 2008, 08:11 AM
Then again, without a human "mind" in them, perhaps they wouldn't work. Or turn into cylons?
*snort

ZOMG!b_cs
October 26th, 2008, 06:55 AM
I liked the interaction between the two Jack's.

RononXSpecialist
November 8th, 2008, 03:47 AM
I have to agree with Black_Sheep it is one of the most boring ones. But I do like how the Jack's always talk crap to eachother lol
trying to figure out whos the better Jack lol.

The6thRace
November 11th, 2008, 06:50 AM
Hey, Harlan said he was the last survivor of the Altera. Could this be the same as the Alterans?

Ulkesh47
November 11th, 2008, 09:19 AM
Hey, Harlan said he was the last survivor of the Altera. Could this be the same as the Alterans?
I think Harlan is from Altair, not Altera.

RononXSpecialist
November 19th, 2008, 05:05 PM
Plus the technology didn't look like Alterans design

welshgater
November 20th, 2008, 05:44 AM
I like this ep, I feel sorry for robot Sg-1. :jack::sam::daniel::tealc:

Yipster
February 19th, 2009, 12:06 AM
If you just returned from a mission, the doctor draw's your blood for a test, its a white fluid.

Do you,

a) freak out
b) freak out and cut somewhere unimportant to see more
c) freak out and cut your wrist deeply lengthways in a way that WILL give you certain death and if not paralyse your hand (remember they don't know they are machines yet!)

.... what the!!

gateship15
February 19th, 2009, 04:17 AM
this was a good episode i love sg1as robots and not knowing they are thats what made this episode one of the best

Butlersgate
February 23rd, 2009, 10:20 AM
the part where teal'c beats up O'neill is brutal imo

shinysign
March 7th, 2009, 10:38 PM
This was a sad episode, but still very well done.

One thing I would have done as the SG-1 team was involve them in the search, for instance, instead of hanging out in a boring factory, why not set up an entire science lab inside the factory, and have them reasearch alien technology in the hours when they are not repairing anything. They could come up with some great stuff - they are extremely smart already, and with the mathematical 'updates' in their brains they could work faster than any human.

gatecowboy94
March 24th, 2009, 07:51 PM
Though some parts were gut wrenching I really liked this episode. Harlan was hilarious. Me and my little brother started saying "Comtraya" so much my mom says we can never say it again.:jack_new_anime25:

The Stig
April 20th, 2009, 03:53 PM
A nice little episode that provided some memorable moments. it getting revisited was even better.

lordofseas
July 30th, 2009, 08:33 PM
I thought this episode was absolutely hilarious! Harlan was amazing, and I thought the O'Neill/Teal'c fight was nice. ;P

mrscopterdoc
February 8th, 2010, 08:46 PM
This is one of my favorites of season one. It is so sad at the end, and it really makes you think. Comtraya! :P

Tachyon
April 6th, 2010, 10:43 PM
This is a one for me I usually skip. The Comtraya dude is just too much for me. Teehee.

Jacquelyn
April 14th, 2010, 11:02 AM
This is a one for me I usually skip. The Comtraya dude is just too much for me. Teehee.

LMAO yea he is a bit too much. :lol:
But this is still a really great eppy. I mean I LOVE their outfits when they wake up. :D

Girlbot
June 10th, 2010, 11:30 AM
Nice episode, a lonely robot trying to keep a futile system alive, gets a litle help . Interesting premise

maneth
July 14th, 2010, 11:41 AM
Interesting take on consciousness transfer and robots in general. But Harlan was rather annoying...

Martina Magnus
July 15th, 2010, 11:59 PM
Harlen was so annoying character ... but whole ep has a good idea ... :)

Tallifer
September 10th, 2010, 10:18 PM
This was a tragic story. (Although the tragedy was spoiled by the goofiness of the alien Harlan.)

On first viewing it, I was irritated that SG-1 so qucikly rejected the possibilities of using the new technology. But of course, it would be almost impossible to maintain the beliveable immediacy of contemporary Americans in a space opera if the Stargate Command were able to adopt all the useful technologies found on the distant planets. It would transform earth's society into Star Trek and would detract from much fo the special appeal of this show.

Vagabond Serpent
October 14th, 2010, 03:03 AM
One of the best episodes of the first season, in my opinion. And quite different from others, giving a completely different perspective of the show. And I'll agree - the story they told was a tragic one.

The bunker theme itself was strange enough to see. Always wandered where it was shot.

Harlan was annoying guy right since his first appearance, but only until you see Urgo. Then Harlan seems nice and appealing during re-watches. Team's costumes were somewhat silly, but it was funny to see SG-1 not in their uniforms, or when Harlan points at Carter and states that she's a female, not saying about the fun when Jack translated millions of hours into years. It's hard to say who was surprised more by that and that he did it correct - Jack himself or others. :P

When on Earth Jack rushed to cut his forearm open - that actually detracted from the episode. Even if I'd not have hearbeat and if my blood was changed onto some oil, I still wouldn't try doing this, as I'd not put my life at risk of doing this. He wasn't a T-800 and knew not like him that he was a machine before doing that.

Back on the planet Harlan nearly got killed by O'Neill, but I understand both - SG-1 was shocked, the alien was desperate. And these malfunctions that followed just proved that he couldn't keep that station running alone any longer. Daniel was thinking it's all fascinating, Sam wasn't sure what to think, but when she finally saw real one she got fascinated too. Jack was desperate and Teal'c malfunctioned. And the fight between two latters finally led to the solution of the puzzle. Oh, and I just realised that the second copy, the one with only one mind inside, without stronger Goa'uld mind sharing its brain to take over the control of its body, was technically the first free Jaffa.

It seemed that the real team spent some time with Harlan before getting on those holding things and agreed on his plan or whatever he told them, though they probably got surprised when he shackled them as they didn't rush to beat the crap out of him and Jack asked Harlan where he was for so long. On the other hand, he would just put them on them while they were unconscious after his attack and talk to them afterwards, what seems the most possible thing.

Of course, at the end, when the whole story is visible its tragedy is apparent, but during the course of episode it's more tragedy of doomed Earthlings, rather than Altair race, represented now by Harlan only, who is more than desperate in searching the ways to survive and keep that little legacy of his race in a decent shape. Jack thought about sending bomb to make sure the gate was buried? But he knew that his alternate as well as others will sooner let themselves disassembled than yield some secrets. Harlen himself wasn't that dangerous, if not dangerous at all. What I can't get at all is why real SG-1 didn't fetch some of those disintegrating pistols as a payment for their trouble before going home? :P

And of course stupidity of the translators is overwhelming again... Did you know that "Tin Man" means "Immortal Tinned Food"? :rolleyes:

8/10

Supreme Commander Sil
October 14th, 2010, 03:29 AM
I liked Harlan.. he was funny...

I think the eventual death of these characters was a bit lame :mckay:.. .They could have had a more convincing death....

I like the issues raised in it - which is really the original? Is it moral to clone? Are cloned androids moral? In the circumstances it is moral not to do so? Was Harlan justified? Should "comtrya" become the international word for "hello"/"welcome"?

I spoiler, knowing I don't have to, but doing so for viewers who have not seen beyond this episode :).

Vagabond Serpent
October 14th, 2010, 04:02 AM
Should "comtrya" become the international word for "hello"/"welcome"?


No, thank you. :P

Vagabond Serpent
October 15th, 2010, 03:54 AM
Missed that question yesterday:



I like the issues raised in it - which is really the original? Is it moral to clone? Are cloned androids moral? In the circumstances it is moral not to do so? Was Harlan justified? Should "comtrya" become the international word for "hello"/"welcome"?


Both teams consider themselves original until they meet each other, when androids realise that humans are still original, no matter how do they (androids) feel. I think it's moral to clone in circumstances like this and cloned androids are obviously moral as they've the same consciousness that SG-1 does. And Harlan was more than justified as he was the only survivior for more than 11000 years. If you were him, wouldn't you do anything that you're capable of doing to survive and thus keep your race alive? :)

FrodoFraggins
March 19th, 2011, 12:16 AM
I'd give this episode a 6/10.

I didn't feel much sympathy for the copies for whatever reason.

lookupwardsnshare
August 17th, 2011, 04:12 PM
COMTRAYA!!!!:jack_new_anime07:

good episode...imagine multiple SG-1's n the possibilities

muziqaz
August 18th, 2011, 07:02 AM
This is a one for me I usually skip. The Comtraya dude is just too much for me. Teehee.
Oh, man, was he annoying :D

muziqaz
August 18th, 2011, 07:04 AM
Missed that question yesterday:



Both teams consider themselves original until they meet each other, when androids realise that humans are still original, no matter how do they (androids) feel. I think it's moral to clone in circumstances like this and cloned androids are obviously moral as they've the same consciousness that SG-1 does. And Harlan was more than justified as he was the only survivior for more than 11000 years. If you were him, wouldn't you do anything that you're capable of doing to survive and thus keep your race alive? :)

why not copy himself? does not excuse his annoyance :D

poundpuppy29
August 18th, 2011, 12:08 PM
This ep puts me to sleep don't know why

SaberBlade
August 18th, 2011, 12:14 PM
This ep puts me to sleep don't know why

Because it's character driven and doesn't involve lots of action?

dtheories
August 18th, 2011, 10:07 PM
I misread the instructions and listened to the GW simulcast with the dvd audio muted. So, spent a goodly portion of the ep listening to air or sudden bursts of laughter. I know it's the first commentary, so will have to hope for more "chat" in the next re-watch! :o

The idea of never being able to return home is difficult, and maybe let's some of us see through the eyes of a refugee. It was a very sad and complex ending, but Jack's facial expressions during his last conversation with Harlan rather gives away that plans are afoot!

The comedy was excellent! Daniel's expressions, especially in lock up when asking Teal'c how he felt without Jr., well, there were many fun moments to help balance the depth of despair.

Starscape91
August 20th, 2011, 03:18 PM
This was a really great episode finding out that they were robots and actual copies of the original sg1 was a shocker and then came relief cause the robots have to stay their forever. Or until Sam builds portable batteries for them. :samanime20:

Lieutenant Sparrow
August 21st, 2011, 05:51 AM
Comtraya!

Poor Harlan. I felt bad for the poor android. Not a bad ep. Did enough to keep me interested.

Krisz
August 22nd, 2011, 04:23 PM
One of my favourite episodes of the season.

Don't know how I'd feel being faced with finding out you are a copy of yourself and the 'real' you carries on with the life lived, the other condemned to searching for a new life and identity in a way for thousands of years!! The whole concept was interesting to explore. Robot Jack was trying to come to terms with it, but you knew he was suffering with the adjustment. As always the 'humanity' of synthetic android life is a great Sci Fi concept to explore and this episode was a good one for that. :)

The worst bit was that even if they could have gone back to Earth they would have been probably taken apart in the course of research. A chilling thought! :( Good thing Hammond was in charge and sent them back, if Maybourne was, off to Area 51 to be studied!

Nindif
August 24th, 2011, 04:35 AM
Don't know how I'd feel being faced with finding out you are a copy of yourself and the 'real' you carries on with the life lived, the other condemned to searching for a new life and identity in a way for thousands of years!! The whole concept was interesting to explore. Robot Jack was trying to come to terms with it, but you knew he was suffering with the adjustment. As always the 'humanity' of synthetic android life is a great Sci Fi concept to explore and this episode was a good one for that. :)

There is a quote by the two Carters you may miss without subtitles as Jack walks out of the room in search of his copy. She says "We should evolve into different people based on our individual experiences" or something to that effect. It is a passing line which i think sums up the moral complexities of the episode. Over time, they will develop into unique people, it is just that they are starting from the same base.

I felt great sympathy for Harlan. He is simply alone and wanted some companionship and assistance. His situation and story are very heatfelt. Last surviving member of his entire race. All alone. World falling apart around him. Helpless. His plight is quite tragic.

Overall it is a very enjoyable episode. I would have liked an additional scene to explore the Teal'c/ Symbiote relationship. There was some nice comedic beats to break up the somber tone the story evolves into. It is heavily dialogue driven which is strange as most episodes thus far have followed a mystery/action/explanation structure, but it is well written and well paced. It is easily one of Season 1's best.

Jae'a
August 24th, 2011, 10:30 AM
My LiveJournal post (http://jo-r-lee.livejournal.com/5915.html)

Matt G
August 24th, 2011, 03:45 PM
Another Sunday afternoon, by which point I was probably starting my A Levels...another ep of SG1.

1. Achilles heel of this ep? The title. "Tin Man". Mum and I used to watch the early seasons of SG1 together and it was pretty obvious to us what was going on before 'SG1' returned to Earth.

2. As Darren and David said, watching this 2nd time round is a bit bittersweet but there are/were one or two bits and pieces I forgot.

3. The biggest one of those was 'Teal'c' losing the plot, I remembered that he got trashed but over a decade after the only previous time I saw the ep, I didn't remember why.

4. I genuinely didn't expect Robo-SG1 to be copies first time round though though, just that they'd get somehow remade into flesh and blood so like most fans I presume I was seriously gutted about the Robo-teams eventual fate.

Interesting enough ep for what was at the time seemingly a standalone.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
August 24th, 2011, 04:53 PM
Let's see. A pretty good episode, which will setup the penultimate episode of Season 4.

I noticed that Hammond still has a tie on, which I find weird.

Tomorrow's episode is my favorite one of Season 1, and Martin Wood's first directed SG-1 episode.

LeftHandedGuitarist
August 25th, 2011, 07:56 AM
This is an enjoyable enough episode. The story is great, but it's the execution which lets it down. I find Harlen a really annoying and unpleasant character to see on screen, and he suffers from that terrible affliction which many TV writers love in which they won't allow the character to just explain what's going on, even when asked with direct questions. It frustrates the hell out of me.

The big abandoned warehouse/factory style set (reused many times throughout the show) really looks bad here, and that's another thing that puts me off the episode a bit. It just doesn't look good.

The positive outweighs the negative here, though, because the episode's story is great and the twist that SG-1 are actually copies is not one you see coming; you fully expect them to be transferred back to their original bodies by the end of the episode. RDA does some great acting and especially in the scenes with his double. The ending of the episode actually leaves a somewhat bitter taste as it's a horrible thing that the robot copies have to go through. I could not imagine leaving my life behind and having another me continue with it, while I'm shut away from everyone and everything.

The biggest crime of this episode, though, was the fact that it was not followed up sooner. The sequel we do get is great, but still an unhappy ending for the robot team. They really should have been utilised a little more.

RATING: 7 out of 10

hlndncr
August 26th, 2011, 02:20 PM
I believe the set for this episode is an old electrical plant that is used again in TBFtGoG and Watergate. I think it looks great here. They do some wonderful things with lighting to highlight the lines and textures and add color. It makes for some beautiful shots.

I love Harlan. He's sweet and tragic. Yes, he annoys the team, especially Jack, but for me that is part of his charm. Comtrya! (Best greeting ever!)

This episode has a fab twist at the end. I never believed that their real bodies were destroyed, but I didn't expect the robots were duplicates.

I like how you see each of the characters react to their new reality. Jack is angry for much of the episode, but then when he learns the truth he just looks devestated. As he said, he feels like someone stole his life; one he had just begun to believe was again worth living.

Daniel contemplates the essence of self. What makes him a unique being, whether organic or mechanical?

Sam is steeped in the logic of it. How can we be the same?

Poor Teal'c gets the short end. Having his consciousness combined with that of the Goa'uld. No wonder he went crazy.

I do think it has to be difficult for the robot team to be left behind to begin a new life. There are much more tragic ending than this one (Fragile Balance for example). They have each other, and they are family. And we later see that they still have their mission. So I do think they are ultimately happy.



http://signavatar.com/7792_s.gif

jelgate
August 28th, 2011, 02:31 PM
This episode has a great concept that losts its way. Turning SG1 into robot duplicates is a science fiction classic. However once SG1 returns from Earth with the knowledge they are now robots it drags on with no sense of direction. Its like they had a story that only lasts 30 minutes for a 42 minute episode. I will say this though. I love the sequel to this episode.

DigiFluid
August 29th, 2011, 05:57 AM
I really like this one a lot. Which is odd because once upon a time I loathed it!

But over the years it's really grown on me. Harlan is a fantastic character, and "com-traya!" never fails to make me grin like an idiot now :D

I also really love the glum feel of Harlan's facility. It's dark, falling apart, industrial, and just all-around gloomy. It really compliments the tone of the story wonderfully.

One thing I've never really been able to work out though: what the heck is the facility/factory for? They're robots and have no need to eat or drink, so I'm not sure air is even an issue. And even if it were, the place looked gigantic! Even without circulating air, they could probably go for years and years between bothering to fix anything.

Or if it's not air circulation, what is it that keeps seeming like it'll explode if they don't fix it?

Traveler Enroute1
August 29th, 2011, 06:36 PM
SG Rewatch episodes: 101 - 105, 106, 107, 109, 110, 111,112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118

Tin Man

Another episode I always eagerly watch for.

Cool opening shot. The camera tilts down on strange structures until we see an active event horizon. And wait. When it disengages, we see that the team has already exited on the other side. Sort of like looking through the back side of a mirror. The music was nice and creaky, too. And when the whole team apparently gets struck down its uh-oh time.

Here's where the snazzy track suits come in. Always recall my own puzzlement at their change of clothing. I think I figured it was a prison outfit or lab clothes. Then we meet their host, Harlan, and the multi-use term 'Comtraya!' makes its appearance, too. Naturally Jack has his take on it ('Oh. Kumbaya.').

Everything looked fine till the team returned to the SGC. Yuck when Janet draws white fluid instead of blood from Jack's arm. Then it goes one step yuckier when Jack carves open his forearm to reveal mechanical workings instead of human tissue and blood. The big clue here was that he didn't seem to feel pain. But great shock scene, aided by the horrified reactions of Janet and the team.

Is this SG-1 or isn't it?

I got pulled into this one. It was conceivable to me that the team would actually have to remain on Harlan's forlorn planet. What would they do there? The writers would come up with some wild, imaginative rescue plot that, I don't know, maybe developed from an invading race more advanced. The team naturally prevails and uses this other technology to return to their bodies. Harlan gets to duplicate the losers and gain the companionship and workers he needs. Eh? Phfft. They'll never hire me to write an ep!

The more likely (and imaginative) scenario was that SG-1 still existed. This group that stormed back to earth was in fact a copy of the human team. Wow, talk about shock and awe. Poor Harlan let slip that though Teal'c was just vaporized before their eyes, he would be fine! Sam immediately leaps on this, as does Daniel, and Jack makes his presence even more threatening till Harlan has to reveal his secret.

Things get a lot more emotional at this time. The scene is masterfully played by the cast, as reality sinks in that they aren't the real SG-1. Hard to imagine what that did to them, how it shook them to their core. A copy, not the real deal as they thought. If they'd managed to remain on earth and the actual team returned, what a mess. But they had to face their greatest challenge now, to step back from a life they didn't really own but knew in all its intimate details.

Harlan seemed like a likable guy, but when I saw that the real SG-1 was lying on slabs AWAKE and immobile, probably wondering fruitlessly what was happening? Well, that wasn't very nice, it bordered on torture. I'm sure he never thought of it that way but I did. On the other hand Harlan was definitely in a sympathetic situation, alone deep beneath an unlivable planet with ancient infrastructure breaking down around him. Harlan was at the very least, a desperate survivor.

It was kind of fun to see the two Sams and two Daniels engaged in like-speak. But it's the conversation between the two Jacks that is most illuminating. Copy!Jack is clearly unhappy that he can't live what is essentially his life, too. But he's still Jack and accepts the only way this could go down was for the real team to return and his team remains with Harlan. The question always hovering about is whether the copy!SG-1 with all the same abilities, memories and feelings were entitled to that life, too. It wasn't their fault they came into existence as duplicates of others. Needless to say they all knew how earth's military and government would see it.

A storyline where this got some exploration was in Star Trek the Next Generation, where Star Fleet debated whether Data's rights as a sentient being were equal to humans ('The Measure of a Man') and if his creation had her father's rights ('The Offspring').

As they part at the gate, it's painfully evident that this solution is the best of a bad deal. The wistful expressions on copy!SG-1 made my eyes water. Even the Jacks and their parting banter can't lighten the mood much. They plan to bury the gate but we do wonder what will become of the fully duplicated SG-1 now that they can't be SG-1 anymore. A sequel waiting in the wings, I hoped then.

Additional stuff:


Best screen effects for the doubles was with the Jacks. Sam's double was visually off-scale.


People are not supposed to live forever. Copy!Jack said to Harlan.
But if you try for just a few 100 years, perhaps you might change your mind! Harlan cheerfully replied.


Noticed a lot of white (lab) coat people in the gateroom in this episode, way more than I noted before.


Daniel had especially gorgeous eyes without his glasses.


Some of Harlan's people left with portable power packs and never returned. Would they or their remains turn up somewhere beyond the gate?


Cute moment when Harlan expresses a bit too much interest in 'the female.'



More lessons on how very wrong these gate trips can go, even without an enemy on the other side. The Pentagon wasn't going to be happy about this trip, either; they would love to study Harlan's duplicating tech. Wonder how the team debriefed this one. Touching, bittersweet gate trip that worked well for me. For the copy SG-1, apparently not so much.

Rated 4/5

LeftHandedGuitarist
August 30th, 2011, 08:14 AM
Wow, so many people here actually like Harlan?! He literally makes me to want to smash the TV screen whenever he's on, and his delivery of "comtraya" is like nails scratching down a chalkboard to me! What am I missing?

DigiFluid
August 30th, 2011, 08:15 AM
Taste? :D:p

LeftHandedGuitarist
August 30th, 2011, 08:16 AM
Best screen effects for the doubles was with the Jacks. Sam's double was visually off-scale.


Agreed, although once you know it's Dan Shea (Siler) playing O'Neill's body double it becomes impossible not to register it!


Taste? :D:p

Ha. :p

Traveler Enroute1
August 30th, 2011, 08:19 AM
Wow, so many people here actually like Harlan?! He literally makes me to want to smash the TV screen whenever he's on, and his delivery of "comtraya" is like nails scratching down a chalkboard to me! What am I missing?

LOL! No worries, LHG. He's a bumbler on a mission and as such, does wrong things for right reasons. I had my issues with him, but decided he was just too desperate for the niceties up front.

chaddergate
August 30th, 2011, 04:56 PM
Wow, so many people here actually like Harlan?! He literally makes me to want to smash the TV screen whenever he's on, and his delivery of "comtraya" is like nails scratching down a chalkboard to me! What am I missing?

Yep, me too (smashing screen)...but I thought this episode overall, was pretty good, however, I like the sequel better. :)

Kunoichi
August 31st, 2011, 03:21 AM
There is a quote by the two Carters you may miss without subtitles as Jack walks out of the room in search of his copy. She says "We should evolve into different people based on our individual experiences" or something to that effect. It is a passing line which i think sums up the moral complexities of the episode. Over time, they will develop into unique people, it is just that they are starting from the same base.

It's an interesting thought, isn't it? Despite having seen this episode loads of times I only picked up on this line this time round - probably as I'm watching on my laptop with my headphones on.




I felt great sympathy for Harlan. He is simply alone and wanted some companionship and assistance. His situation and story are very heatfelt. Last surviving member of his entire race. All alone. World falling apart around him. Helpless. His plight is quite tragic.




On the other hand Harlan was definitely in a sympathetic situation, alone deep beneath an unlivable planet with ancient infrastructure breaking down around him. Harlan was at the very least, a desperate survivor.

I found Harlan irritating but I felt that his enthusiasm and odd behaviour was easily explainable by his having been stuck by himself for such a long time.



Harlan seemed like a likable guy, but when I saw that the real SG-1 was lying on slabs AWAKE and immobile, probably wondering fruitlessly what was happening? Well, that wasn't very nice, it bordered on torture. I'm sure he never thought of it that way but I did.

This was one of the things that irritated me about this episode. I just felt that SG-1 should have been more aggressively annoyed with Harlan about keeping them immobilised that way. They just seemed to accept it and move on, rather than deal with the fact that Harlan had hell them captive.

juggernaut975
September 4th, 2011, 05:40 AM
Surprisingly, this was my least favorite episode of Season One. Looking back to when I first became a fan I always leaned towards Emancipation/Brief Candle but since the Re-Watch I've found that they weren't nearly as bad as I first remembered. Tin Man though...?

It's just a depressing episode. Sure, there's that neat twist where it turns out that...gasp...there are TWO sets of SG1...and the ones we've been watching for 30+ minutes are the copies.....

But what's the end result? They're stuck there for the rest of their lives. Which is now thousands of years.

Comtraya, indeed.

Jack mentions that Harlan 'had no choice' when he kidnapped and copied SG1 but will that excuse still fly in, oh, let's say a century when the factories could have become even more dilapidated? Would they then support Harlan taking another group of travelers? It's just a very bizarre set of circumstances and a solution that I doubt any of them would be satisfied with.

Just imagine that you're in their shoes: Hey, we're going to make you nigh immortal....but you're going to spend a huge chunk of that doing repair work.

I'm vaguely aware of what happens down the road to the SG1 copies but in the context of Tin Man the idea of them being trapped there is just unsettling.

And what caps it for me is Harlan's cheerfulness and positive attitude, grinning and Comtraya-ing his hands together upon informing SG1 V.2 that they're going to be assisting him maintain that facility for thousands and thousands of years, Comtraya!

Ugh, what a dick lol.

LeftHandedGuitarist
September 4th, 2011, 07:23 AM
Ugh, what a dick lol.

YES! Thank you. There is nothing to like about his character.

juggernaut975
September 4th, 2011, 07:46 AM
YES! Thank you. There is nothing to like about his character.

Exactly....it's just so odd to see Jack and Co. so willing to just disregard the fact that they were kidnapped and expected to be put to work.....you'd think that they'd (the 'real' SG1) would have raised more of a fuss about the rights of the SG1 copies.

Dave2
September 6th, 2011, 12:51 PM
I am trying to figure out all the ways we can make use of the word COMTRAYA!
One way is for WOW! Another would be GREETINGS! or BE WELL!
What about IT'S ABOVE MY HEAD BUT SOUNDS GREAT!

lostmonkey70
October 11th, 2011, 12:11 PM
Just imagine that you're in their shoes: Hey, we're going to make you nigh immortal....but you're going to spend a huge chunk of that doing repair work.

I'm vaguely aware of what happens down the road to the SG1 copies but in the context of Tin Man the idea of them being trapped there is just unsettling.

And what caps it for me is Harlan's cheerfulness and positive attitude, grinning and Comtraya-ing his hands together upon informing SG1 V.2 that they're going to be assisting him maintain that facility for thousands and thousands of years, Comtraya!

Ugh, what a dick lol.

Literally all things that could have been solved by NOT just burying the gate and never going back to that planet. Establish that as a research facility, work with Harlan and allow him to make more duplicates so they could study the technology and the facility as they helped him maintain it. That's the sort of thing I would have seen the SGC and the Pentagon going for and would have made sense once the real SG-1 explained things to them.

moondragon
October 15th, 2011, 06:13 PM
Ive always been on the fence about this episode. I find Harlan grating and off putting. Yeah sure, hes been stranded alone for 11,000 years, but his level of cheeriness seems fake "I have made you better"...and don't even get me started on the "Comtraya" *bangs head on desk*. I thought the interaction between both SG teams to be very spot on for who their characters are. Both Carter's talking about the logic of being the same person and how their experiences would eventually change them. The Daniels were in awe of each other and poor Teal'c was like the lonely kid in the corner without a friend. The Jack's interaction gave us another look into his persona. He felt unsettled and maybe you could say violated to know that his consciousness and self had been duplicated. Someone else out there also knows about everything that happened to him while a POW. Also, the copy has to stay behind knowing that someone else is living the life that he beliefs to be his.
Favorite line: Jack "Don't worry, I just wanna talk, robot to robot"

Dimes
December 23rd, 2011, 10:01 AM
Good episode.
Always wondered what the clones are doing or WILL do.

Darian
July 3rd, 2012, 12:09 AM
Comtria this was a cool episode

Sam-n-Jack-in-<3
July 26th, 2012, 10:15 AM
Eh? It's Com-tria and not Con-tria? :confused: OK.

Major Clanger
October 15th, 2012, 01:05 PM
Just watched this for the first time in years and years and years
It didn't get better with time. Harlan was too annoying and there wasn't enough... I don't know, naval gazing?
Loved Jack talking to Jack though

Major Clanger
October 16th, 2012, 12:18 AM
was just saying this on the Fire & Water thread but I'm always sad when characters / worlds / Tech like this, which could be so useful, isn't followed up on.

Having said that Harlan was too annoying and the whole Comtraya thing made me want to get my slapping hand out. (if not my spoon, which I am pleased to see has come back to me)

which is why I am particularly pleased that the bot SG1 team showed up again in S4

Seaboe Muffinchucker
October 16th, 2012, 07:52 AM
JHarlan was too annoying and there wasn't enough... I don't know, naval gazing?

You wanted them to look closely at ships? ;)

Seaboe

Major Clanger
October 16th, 2012, 08:37 AM
You wanted them to look closely at ships? ;)

Seaboe

eek - clangers aren't good at spelling / typing. Especially when they have been away so long. :D

Pym
January 9th, 2013, 01:34 AM
I really enjoyed this episode .
And I love the follow up episodes esp when they talk to each other orrathere there other selves.
I did find it a bit odd how at the end the original group just calmly accepted the fact they had been tied up and replicated . Something I dont think they would have agreed to.
Also if Harlans people had that technology why didnt they replicate them selves.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
January 9th, 2013, 07:50 AM
They did replicate themselves. But there was a tragedy and the organic originals were lost. Harlan notes that the organic original is required to create the replicate. That's how O'Neill et al. knew their bodies were still around, because Harlan was able to recreate Teal'c, which he couldn't've done without the original Teal'c.

Seaboe

garhkal
January 9th, 2013, 03:50 PM
I wonder, why we never went back to try and replicate harlan's technology?

Seaboe Muffinchucker
January 10th, 2013, 07:39 AM
Because the writers had too many new ideas they wanted to explore to revisit old ideas.

Seaboe

fems
January 10th, 2013, 12:09 PM
I wonder, why we never went back to try and replicate harlan's technology?

Because SG-1 was under the impression that their robot selves had actually listened and closed off the Stargate :P

Vagabond Serpent
January 10th, 2013, 09:36 PM
And how about later seasons, when they've learned that they pick on Goa'uld along with original SG-1, stirring some trouble here and there? Army of clones would be nice to storm Apophis :lol:

fems
January 11th, 2013, 06:35 AM
And how about later seasons, when they've learned that they pick on Goa'uld along with original SG-1, stirring some trouble here and there? Army of clones would be nice to storm Apophis :lol:

Well, the question was asked in this thread, not in the one about Double Jeopardy! :P

But to answer your question; security risk. Especially later on in the show, as the robots would know everything the original also knows but they are probably easier to catch considering their battery life.

Falcon Horus
May 21st, 2013, 05:31 PM
Comtraya!

Irritating little man whom I would have damaged for sure... :jack_new_anime25:
Nevertheless, a fascinating character, this Harlen. However, with the amount of better's I wouldn't suggest playing a drinking game while watching this episode. Chances are you'll be stone drunk during the last 20 minutes of it. :p

I can understand he wants to have company, but he shouldn't have lied about it. He could have asked politely. Carter and Daniel might have said yes -- they seemed to be the most fascinated by it. Jack is definite no, and Teal'c would probably have followed in Jack's footsteps.

So, Harlen tried to combine both the larvae's consciousness and Teal'c's... not exactly a great combo as we could see.

AsgardGirl
September 15th, 2014, 07:58 AM
I always like the topic of AI. I can see both view making them better and what to stay who you are. It brings interesting question, so I like it a lot.

Besta
December 26th, 2014, 02:11 AM
This planet has Humans on it that have been there for over 11,000 years. So when did Ra have them transplanted.

Also does anyone else see a cultural similarity between Harlam, Urgo (same name episode), Calder (Beneath the Surface), the Game Keeper (crazy guy who traps people in virtual reality pods) and the place with the weird light thing? All these cultures seem very related to me, could they all be the Altarians that left the Komtraya joint, in there references of Harlam?

ngewakl
February 10th, 2015, 02:01 AM
Good episode. Interesting take on AI. 3 out of 5 stars.

garhkal
February 10th, 2015, 10:25 PM
All these cultures seem very related to me, could they all be the Altarians that left the Komtraya joint, in there references of Harlam?

Was it ever confirmed that it was the alterans who left that planet?

Britta
February 11th, 2015, 03:09 AM
Was it ever confirmed that it was the alterans who left that planet?

Note Altairans, not Alterans (otherwise known as Ancients).

Unless you want to speculate otherwise, given that they appear to predate Goa'uld activity on Earth. Maybe we're not the only life they seeded in this galaxy.

garhkal
February 11th, 2015, 03:00 PM
True the spelling is off, but i made teh assumption that is what he was getting at.

maneth
August 23rd, 2015, 01:20 AM
Harlan wasn't left there by the Alterans (ancients), but he's the last remaining synthetic Altairan (inhabitant of the planet Altair, a.k.a. PX3-989).

Somehow I doubt that Urgo, the gamekeeper or Calder had anything to do with Harlan...

Anja
September 5th, 2015, 07:56 AM
Great interaction of the two teams at the end of the episode - it was almost obvious that there would be more!

Anja

Tyrathraxus
June 14th, 2016, 12:34 AM
Great episode and one of the first that dealt with the big push by the SGC to obtain new technology. You always knew RDA was gonna have a great time playing off RDA and it was to be expected. In some ways the tech level really wasn't all that great though. I remember losts of dark scenes and piping and large amounts of steam and tech. I think its more than likely that the original Altairans were like more of the refugees from the Pegasus who decided to try and concentrate on a non Asuran path to AI's.

Still the technology level just didn't seem as high here.

Anja
June 14th, 2016, 02:13 AM
I think creating robots that advanced needs very advanced technology - but one man alone can't handle proper supervision. So pipes and steam indicate that help is needed - and they help to make the audience watch because attention is triggered.

Tyrathraxus
June 14th, 2016, 05:49 PM
Pipes and Steam should the LEVEL of technology, not what the tech was. Look at it this way. Would you see such a corridor on Atlantis or the Asuran homeworld etc? I doubt it.

I think they simply went to a water treatment plant or similar place to film but you ARE right. It did make it look like the whole system was breaking down (however what it does not mention is why Harlan could not simply copy himself, so he could help himself). Harlan even states when he recreated Teal'c he would do it so Teal'c would be better and more like the original, he he must have their recordings stored somehow.

Anja
June 15th, 2016, 02:19 AM
Pipes and Steam should the LEVEL of technology, not what the tech was. Look at it this way. Would you see such a corridor on Atlantis or the Asuran homeworld etc? I doubt it.

I think they simply went to a water treatment plant or similar place to film but you ARE right. It did make it look like the whole system was breaking down (however what it does not mention is why Harlan could not simply copy himself, so he could help himself). Harlan even states when he recreated Teal'c he would do it so Teal'c would be better and more like the original, he he must have their recordings stored somehow.

I think he needed the bodies and I doubt that Harlan's original body was still there or intact!

Tyrathraxus
June 21st, 2016, 10:47 PM
I think the original Harlan left.

Falcon Horus
November 26th, 2017, 08:28 AM
Comtraya!

If this episode was a drinking game and you had to drink whenever the word "better" was mentioned, you'd be stone-cold drunk by the end of act II (unless you can hold your liquor or you're teetotaller).

I don't think in any of my other viewings did I think Harlan to be quite the annoying character. This time around he really got on my nerves. I was glad the episide was over and done with cause I couldn't have stomached anything more of him.

The concept of the episode is pretty interesting. It's again a low-budget episode, since we've got some big ones coming. Everything taking place in this one location -- an awesome location too. The set designers did a magnificent job on lighting and dressing the place up.

So, Harlan has been alone for 11,000 years and he wants company. He creates SG-1 2.0 and expects them to just accept their new fate. Yeah, I don't think so.

I do love the psychological and philosophical subject of the episode. How would you feel if your consciousness had been transferred to a robot-copy of yourself, and you could live for a lot longer than human lifespans general can give you. However, you can never go back from where you came because you're linked to a powersource? And you never have the pleasantries of eating or drinking because you're a machine.

When Daniel tells Carter that he just realized he could be alive for thousands of years to come, I'm surprised he didn't started laughing hysterically cause is the human brain even capable of accepting such fate?

Truly fascinating concept.... :)

How would you rate SG-1's "Tin Man?"

Excellent
Good
Fair
Poor
Terrible

While I like the idea of the episodes, the concept of consciousness being transferred into an everlasting body of sorts, is fascinating, I'm not too big of a fan of the episode as a whole. Too much better and comtraya.

Falcon Horus
November 26th, 2017, 03:33 PM
Bringing forth the 3-episode quiz:

Solitudes -- Tin Man -- There But For The Grace Of God (https://goo.gl/forms/sP790yVjgeiVXMcN2)


Jigsaw --> Tin Man (https://www.jigidi.com/solve.php?id=59F9HC3J)

jelgate
November 27th, 2017, 02:06 PM
I really hate Harlem. Its why I have never cared for this episode. His one sided mind and the thought that SG1 would like his improvements baffles the mind. I can understand wanting to preserve but don't pretend others will like what you did. I would have like more development on the robot bodies instead of the dead factories. The whole clone robot things was a shocker that came too late. This is a poor.

35 minutes on puzzle. Are you trying to make them harder FH?

Falcon Horus
November 28th, 2017, 01:27 AM
I can understand wanting to preserve but don't pretend others will like what you did.

I would say, as the most logical explanation, that perhaps his feelings of wanting company won from the side of his mind that knew it was wrong to do what he did -- maybe that's why he didn't hurt the original bodies in any way.


35 minutes on puzzle. Are you trying to make them harder FH?

Yeah... I kinda wanted to try something... it clearly worked. (Or not, depend on how you look at it)

jelgate
November 28th, 2017, 11:31 AM
Its obvious he did it out of self-preservation

Falcon Horus
January 12th, 2018, 05:26 PM
43 minutes and 41 seconds

manteias
February 12th, 2018, 01:15 PM
I always thought that the white 'blood' they had was a homage to the milk blood Ash had in Alien.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
February 14th, 2018, 07:24 AM
I always thought it was because it was lubricating fluid, and opaque-whitish shows up well on camera.

Seaboe

BethHG
June 13th, 2018, 08:52 PM
I thought this was okay, nothing to write home about.

Falcon Horus
June 14th, 2018, 11:49 AM
I thought this was okay, nothing to write home about.

Succinct. :p

jelgate
June 14th, 2018, 01:39 PM
That used to be your title

BethHG
June 14th, 2018, 03:46 PM
Succinct. :p

I aim to please. :D

Falcon Horus
June 14th, 2018, 03:50 PM
That used to be your title

Really, mine?

I was never that succinct, was I?

Platschu
August 21st, 2018, 01:23 PM
Errors:

1. Altair can be P3X-989 or PX3-989. The code of the planet changed a few times in the episode.

2. TinCarter pushes only 4 symbols on the DHD, but the wormhole still opens. As usual.

Falcon Horus
August 21st, 2018, 03:38 PM
2. TinCarter pushes only 4 symbols on the DHD, but the wormhole still opens. As usual.

She's got the magical touch. :p

Platschu
August 21st, 2018, 04:07 PM
Hehe. I haven't rewatched this episode for ages, so it was nice to discover some alien language signs on the walls.

Who Knows
September 4th, 2018, 12:09 AM
I just went over the hour (and some) but I got interruptions, so I will try again later.

Falcon Horus
September 4th, 2018, 02:05 PM
I just went over the hour (and some) but I got interruptions, so I will try again later.

Oh but Tin Man is one of my crazy ones... don't worry about going over the hour...

jelgate
September 4th, 2018, 02:32 PM
Oh but Tin Man is one of my crazy ones... don't worry about going over the hour...
Unless you are me of course



35 minutes on puzzle.

Who Knows
September 5th, 2018, 09:19 AM
57.42, & still not happy.

Falcon Horus
September 8th, 2018, 03:23 AM
57.42, & still not happy.

You can redo them as many times as you like. :)

jelgate
September 8th, 2018, 07:43 AM
But you will never redo it enough to beat the master

Falcon Horus
September 8th, 2018, 09:05 AM
But you will never redo it enough to beat the master

It wouldn't be the same after the 87588758th time, I guess. :p

lunasera
November 29th, 2018, 12:16 AM
I love this episode - yes Harlan can get a little annoying with his sidestepping answers, but the first time I saw this I thought it was a great twist. Plus I love duplicates, and it made for an interesting dilemma at the end. Of course I also like the episode where they are working below the city - which also has very little action lol - I guess I like some of the more bizarre one-off drama episodes!

lunasera
November 29th, 2018, 01:05 AM
43.55 on the puzzle :S that was fairly hard!

Falcon Horus
November 29th, 2018, 04:35 AM
43.55 on the puzzle :S that was fairly hard!

I think most jigsaw solvers would consider "fairly hard" an understatement in this particular jigsaw case, but know that apart from Solitudes, I never did any of the jigsaws that outrageously hard again.

Yes, I also apologized profusely for it. :p

And congrats on solving it. I commend your courage. :cameronanime10:

lunasera
November 29th, 2018, 11:20 AM
I think most jigsaw solvers would consider "fairly hard" an understatement in this particular jigsaw case, but know that apart from Solitudes, I never did any of the jigsaws that outrageously hard again.

Yes, I also apologized profusely for it. :p

And congrats on solving it. I commend your courage. :cameronanime10:

Haha good to know - I may be brave enough to try another then :n)

Falcon Horus
November 30th, 2018, 01:07 AM
Haha good to know - I may be brave enough to try another then :n)

If you skip the Solitudes one, that's okay -- most everyone did. ;)

It took me a little over an hour to solve it, I think, if I remember correctly.

LindaL100
April 12th, 2019, 07:59 PM
I really like this episode and even though some people thought the "Tin Man" Harlan was annoying but I liked him, and I understand why he did what he did...while it was wrong of him to make synthetic duplicates of SG-1 without their permission, but he was desperate and alone, it takes a lot of hard work for just 1 person to maintain an entire world, hence he made copies of people to help him, it's not like he killed the original people he duplicated. People can do drastic things when they're desperate and can't think of any better ways to deal with problems.

Platschu
July 21st, 2020, 02:27 PM
Why could he not duplicate himself? But then I am guessing he could have made a copy of his died android friend too.

Other interesting question, if this planet was on the Abydos cartouches then the Goa'uld must have known about this world. Maybe they have abadonned it or the locals have defeated the local ruler etc.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
July 22nd, 2020, 06:23 AM
I can't think of anything on this planet that the Goa'uld would be interested in. They want slaves, not robots.

Seaboe

Platschu
July 24th, 2020, 02:17 PM
I mean maybe they used to be humans, but then the Goa'uld was wiped out than this isolated world has evolved to the wrong direction, so they had to abadon it while they have created robots to maintain their legacy.

Falcon Horus
July 30th, 2020, 02:45 AM
I can't think of anything on this planet that the Goa'uld would be interested in. They want slaves, not robots.

While robots "live" longer, they would probably make horrible hosts. :p

Elite Anubis Guard
July 30th, 2020, 02:59 AM
Wasn't the world entirely uninhabitable too? I think early SG-1 implied that made the System Lord's less interested in the location. They even left all the cool toys on the TBFTGOG world alone once they poisoned the planet.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
August 3rd, 2020, 12:10 PM
As I understood it, the original inhabitants poisoned the planet and made it uninhabitable. They then created the technology that let them basically turn themselves into robots so that they could continue to work and fix the planet. Ultimately, everyone except Harlan died in robot form as well as flesh.

As for the goa'uld, they wouldn't have any interest in an uninhabitable planet, since slaves wouldn't survive to mine whatever minerals were available, nor would then be interested in the androids since they were so dependent on staying close to the power source.

Seaboe

Falcon Horus
August 4th, 2020, 02:25 AM
Goa'uld free -- except in the end they killed themselves in the process... As far as long term plan, Harlan's people were a little short sighted.