Were the Asurans that bad?

[Snowman37]

A lot of people hated the Asurans, refering to them as Replicators. Unfortunately, this lead to their defeat only a year after they were introduced. I found them quite interesting and a great foe for both Atlantis and the Wraith. Can you imagine what would happen if they joined forces with the Wraith? Atlantis would be screwed. Anyway, why the hate for the Asurans?

The only Asuran episode I really didn't like was "Ghost in the Machine," and it was mostly because Weir was treated as the enemy simply because she was made of nanites instead of human flesh.

[themeatcleaver]

A lot of people hated the Asurans, refering to them as Replicators. Unfortunately, this lead to their defeat only a year after they were introduced. I found them quite interesting and a great foe for both Atlantis and the Wraith. Can you imagine what would happen if they joined forces with the Wraith? Atlantis would be screwed. Anyway, why the hate for the Asurans?

The only Asuran episode I really didn't like was "Ghost in the Machine," and it was mostly because Weir was treated as the enemy simply because she was made of nanites instead of human flesh.

They were great bad guys yes, thats why i hated them lol

[tomstone]

They were great bad guys yes, thats why i hated them lol

They were actually more Heartless then bad. I think after the Replicators, everyone put them on the same scale, but in the end they where just a new kind of Lifeform that still had to learn. What made them the bad guys in the Series was just that they were after Atlantis for good reasons.

[blazingfire]

The only Asuran episode I really didn't like was "Ghost in the Machine," and it was mostly because Weir was treated as the enemy simply because she was made of nanites instead of human flesh.

It irks me that they think that every nanite based life-form is evil and should be destroyed. I mean, look at Ava, she helped Sheppard destroy the other renegade replicator and in return the IOA disintegrates her. And the same with Elizabeth, Ronon was like, well she's not organic, so can I kill it?

And the Asurans in GitM were only seeking to ascend, and due to just one bad egg in the bunch, they all get to walk through to the spacegate. Sloppy writing I say. By this logic they should have never trusted the Tokra since they were technically Gou'ald symbiotes.

Why is the idea of a good replicator/Asuran simply unimaginable?

[Ark Cammando]

I never considered the Asurans as not bad before. But this forum raises very good points. I don't understand why the Ancients refused to remove the replicators agressive programming.

[J-Whitt Remastered]

A lot of people hated the Asurans, refering to them as Replicators. Unfortunately, this lead to their defeat only a year after they were introduced. I found them quite interesting and a great foe for both Atlantis and the Wraith. Can you imagine what would happen if they joined forces with the Wraith? Atlantis would be screwed. Anyway, why the hate for the Asurans?

The only Asuran episode I really didn't like was "Ghost in the Machine," and it was mostly because Weir was treated as the enemy simply because she was made of nanites instead of human flesh.

I personally liked them. They weren't my favorite enemies, but they were decent. I think the big thing that some people don't like about them is that they were pretty much copied and pasted from the Human Form Replicators of SG-1 into the Pegasus galaxy. They had the exact same strengths and weakness, the same abilities, and the same look (for the most part). I think it would have been better to have been an alien race's invention and they took the form of those aliens. Then it would have been a little better IMHO.

[Giantevilhead]

I don't hate them, but I am disappoint in how the writers treated them. They were built up to be this super uber threat with tech on the same level as the Ancients, but then like with every uber enemy, they got slammed with the nerf hammer and ended up being a bunch of wusses.

[maneth]

Too similar to the MW replicators, been there done that.

[D Toccs]

Too similar to the MW replicators, been there done that.

Aside from being nanites there were not that many similarities between the Replicators and the Asurans.
The Replicators only wanted to replicate, everything thing they ever did was done in order to assimilate new technology and "increase their number".
The Asuran's on the other hand built cities and developed multi-leveled society with Leaders, Scientists and Soldiers. The Asurans even developed spirituality.

The Asurans' were a full fledged civilization. While the leadership and military were enemies, not all of the Asurans agreed with what was being done, a fact that Atlantis was aware of. For Atlantis to exterminate an entire race because of the actions of a few is nothing short of genocide.
They wouldn't just nuke the Genii homeworld because of what Cowen or Koyla did.

[thekillman]

i thought the Asurans were a good, flawed race. it's just a shame that they were sent away like that, with humongous villain decay.

[Infinite-Possibilities]

Aside from being nanites there were not that many similarities between the Replicators and the Asurans.
The Replicators only wanted to replicate, everything thing they ever did was done in order to assimilate new technology and "increase their number".
The Asuran's on the other hand built cities and developed multi-leveled society with Leaders, Scientists and Soldiers. The Asurans even developed spirituality.

The Asurans' were a full fledged civilization. While the leadership and military were enemies, not all of the Asurans agreed with what was being done, a fact that Atlantis was aware of. For Atlantis to exterminate an entire race because of the actions of a few is nothing short of genocide.
They wouldn't just nuke the Genii homeworld because of what Cowen or Koyla did.

What evidence is there of this? The Asurans forcefully ended dissent by reprogramming or destroying all the ascension seeking replicators except Weir's personal band of seven or so. I see no reason not to think all the Replicators on the planet reached consensus.

[Ouroboros]

The were a blatant rehash of the MW "Human form replicators" which wasn't even a particularly fascinating development the first time around.

The Replicators worked best as all consuming Von Neumann machines that were more a force of nature than an enemy you could really interact with. Turning them into another group of human extras with silly costumes and stilted speech patterns sucked all the menace out of them.

As far as them being bad in the story, they were warfare bots programmed to wipe out the Wraith as efficiently as possible. The Wraith actually do them a (almost certainly unintentional) favor by deactivating their kill directives and allowing them to instead live a more normal existence. Then SGA comes along, undoes it in the hopes of using them to wipe out a sentient species, doesn't like it when the sentient species the Asurans target first turns out to be their own, and finally ends up forcing everyone's hand into wiping out the Asurans instead, another group of sentient lifeforms, because they're now set in "depopulate the entire galaxy" mode thanks to Mckay.

Score another masterstroke for our "peaceful explorers".

[D Toccs]

What evidence is there of this? The Asurans forcefully ended dissent by reprogramming or destroying all the ascension seeking replicators except Weir's personal band of seven or so. I see no reason not to think all the Replicators on the planet reached consensus.

Sure all of Niam's ascension seeking faction that we saw had been wiped out. But we don't know if Niam's faction was the only dissenting group, there could have been many different subfactions within the Asuran society.
My point was that the Asurans were a scoiety, we knew of at least one splinter group which means there could possibly have been many more that objected to the ruling council. If they had been humans, Atlantis would never have taken the drastic step of exterminating the entire race, but for some reason because they were machines the moral conundrum seemed to vanish and genocide was accpetable to everyone.

[D Toccs]

In fact a pretty good argument could be made that the real bad guys of SGA are the Atlantis Expedition. Think about it.

The Wraith are not evil overlords who enslave humanity like the Goa'uld. The Wraith were simply apex predators no more evil then a killer whale that eats baby seals off the beach. The Atlantis Expedition show up from another galaxy, disrupt the Wraith's hibernation cycle and then decide to "cleanse" the species using biological warfare.

The Atlantis Expedition kidnapped, tortured and experimented on Michael without any remorse. Even the few times that Michael opened up about the extent of the pyschological torture he endured, none of the Atlantis Expedition show any sympathy for him and act like they are the victims because Michael wants to kill them.

From their creation, all the Asurans wanted was to develop a peaceful society. The Wraith unintentionally did this for them. Then after thousands of years of peace the Atlantis Expedition decide that the Asuran's sentience is irrelevant because "they are machines". Atlantis hacked the Asuran's programming and turned them back into weapons, then when they couldn't control what they had done, they decided to hack the programming again in order to exterminate the entire race.

The Atlantis Expedition stole or attempted to steal Ancient technology off many different human worlds and seemed to think they were actually entitled to it. The sped up the Hoffans research by hundred of years and created the Hoffan virus. Then when the humans of Pegasus actually united and wanted Atlantis to be held accountable, Woolsey goes and subverts the system by bribing a judge.

Who are the real bad guys in Pegasus?

[Infinite-Possibilities]

In fact a pretty good argument could be made that the real bad guys of SGA are the Atlantis Expedition. Think about it.

The Wraith are not evil overlords who enslave humanity like the Goa'uld.

That's exactly what they were. The only difference is that they also needed to eat people and kept destroying civilizations over and over again. They are probably guilty of more genocide than the goa'uld were. The fact is just because the wraith biologically need to do so in order to survive doesn't make their actions any less horrible. Ronon mentioned that sometimes the wraith decided to exterminate entire planets to make examples of the ones that resist.

The Wraith were simply apex predators no more evil then a killer whale that eats baby seals off the beach. The Atlantis Expedition show up from another galaxy, disrupt the Wraith's hibernation cycle and then decide to "cleanse" the species using biological warfare.

The Goa'uld were simply the dominant species in their galaxy too. What right did the SGC have ever try to remove a a symbiote from Kawalsky, Carter or Skarra if you use that argument? What right did the SGC have to stop the goa'uld from enslaving the galaxy to survive? The need hosts, and an endless supply of slaves will provide them with it. Just like an endless supply of cattle will provide the wraith with food.

From their creation, all the Asurans wanted was to develop a peaceful society. The Wraith unintentionally did this for them. Then after thousands of years of peace the Atlantis Expedition decide that the Asuran's sentience is irrelevant because "they are machines". Atlantis hacked the Asuran's programming and turned them back into weapons, then when they couldn't control what they had done, they decided to hack the programming again in order to exterminate the entire race.

The Asurans are were capable of changing their own programming. And they decided to attack the Atlantis Expedition first, before the team had done anything to their base code. They were pretty evil all on their own.

The Atlantis Expedition stole or attempted to steal Ancient technology off many different human worlds and seemed to think they were actually entitled to it. The sped up the Hoffans research by hundred of years and created the Hoffan virus. Then when the humans of Pegasus actually united and wanted Atlantis to be held accountable, Woolsey goes and subverts the system by bribing a judge.

Who are the real bad guys in Pegasus?

And how many times did they actually steal a ZPM from somebody that needed it?

The Hoffan Drug was never intended to be a weapon. They tried to speed up their research to find a deterrent to wraith feeding. The hoffans were the ones who decided to try to spread it to other worlds once they realized they'd accidentally created a weapon.

The wraith are obviously. And so were the asurans, they made the choice to attack human worlds.