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View Full Version : What happened to Eli's grief?



dgh64
November 24th, 2010, 09:07 PM
Was anyone else disappointed that they didn't even mention Ginn's death, or how Eli's dealing with it? I'm not sure how much time is supposed to be passing between episodes, but it seems like they should've had at least one scene where he was crying on Chloe's shoulder, or something. But he seems to suddenly be back to his normal self (well, normal for him anyway)

escyos
November 24th, 2010, 09:12 PM
Maybe hes hiding it from everyone and will soon explode

dgh64
November 24th, 2010, 09:19 PM
Well, then maybe something like:

"Eli, how you holding up? You wanna talk about...."
"I'm fine."
"You sure? It's only been a week since...."
"Really, I'm fine. Everything's A-okay."

pipi
November 24th, 2010, 09:57 PM
Yeah it's annoying how they don't continue the storyline.

General Jumper One
November 24th, 2010, 10:05 PM
it died

jelgate
November 24th, 2010, 10:09 PM
I don't see the point. This episode wasn't about Eli

Pharaoh Atem
November 24th, 2010, 10:10 PM
Yeah it's annoying how they don't continue the storyline.

even rush seems normal

dgh64
November 24th, 2010, 10:10 PM
I don't see the point. This episode wasn't about Eli

So? They could easily throw a 45-second scene in there somewhere. Nobody says an episode has to only focus on one story arc.

morbosfist
November 24th, 2010, 10:16 PM
They paid lip service to it near the start when Eli remarks on how he's losing Chloe.

jelgate
November 24th, 2010, 10:22 PM
So? They could easily throw a 45-second scene in there somewhere. Nobody says an episode has to only focus on one story arc.

They could but I don't see the point. It would feel jarring considering how little Eli was in this episode

hedwig
November 24th, 2010, 10:26 PM
Was anyone else disappointed that they didn't even mention Ginn's death, or how Eli's dealing with it? I'm not sure how much time is supposed to be passing between episodes, but it seems like they should've had at least one scene where he was crying on Chloe's shoulder, or something. But he seems to suddenly be back to his normal self (well, normal for him anyway)

It isn't long after the previous episode, since Greer has his arm in a sling from the gunshot wound inflicted by Simeon. So it would seem only a day or two or three have passed since that incident. I, too, was a bit disappointed that there wasn't even a little emotion of some kind with Eli over losing Ginn.

Also, Young seems to have recovered completely from his big depression that Scott had to drag him out of a couple of episodes back (unless there will be more to it in the future).

TJ seems to be the only one still grieving in any way because of the loss of her child; at least they haven't just dismissed that as though it didn't happen.

And Rush seems to be right back to his old self, as well, even after the loss of Mandy.

sgc
November 24th, 2010, 10:53 PM
He was about to go try to kill her murderer, but Young talked him out of it. I doubt that he would have gone through with it, because Eli is such a good person (although, good people can do some very bad things). My guess is that they will probably bring it up in one of the next few episodes.

sgc
November 24th, 2010, 10:54 PM
it died

nice. :D

sgc
November 24th, 2010, 10:56 PM
Maybe hes hiding it from everyone and will soon explode

Like Young said:
Eli has a big mouth. Eli has a very healthy stress management mechanism of venting positively to others. He doesn't just keep stuff bottled up inside IMO.

Pecisk
November 24th, 2010, 11:50 PM
It isn't long after the previous episode, since Greer has his arm in a sling from the gunshot wound inflicted by Simeon. So it would seem only a day or two or three have passed since that incident. I, too, was a bit disappointed that there wasn't even a little emotion of some kind with Eli over losing Ginn.

Also, Young seems to have recovered completely from his big depression that Scott had to drag him out of a couple of episodes back (unless there will be more to it in the future).

TJ seems to be the only one still grieving in any way because of the loss of her child; at least they haven't just dismissed that as though it didn't happen.

And Rush seems to be right back to his old self, as well, even after the loss of Mandy.


Well, at the beginning of the episode we see Eli recording video diary - he is clearly suffering, but quietly now (that's how we geeks do it). He is loosing all his dear ones. It will change him. We just won't see this change so fast.

Yong was in depression because of drinking. He stopped to do that and also revelation of the bridge and Rush secret helped him to understand that it wasn't all his fault. So I'm quite happy that they didn't make him to suffer more. It was very relaxing to see him comfort TJ, although with words only (but that's a start) and be responsive as good commander should be.

Kelara
November 25th, 2010, 12:08 AM
"It happens off screen!"

Like Young actually detoxing and Rush grieving for Perry and agonizing about how he made the right or wrong choice to off Simeon and stone use and...

I wouldn't be surprised if they just wrote and/or shot out of order again, so noone knew they were supposed to be grieving.

AndSoItBegins
November 25th, 2010, 05:43 AM
Yeah it's annoying how they don't continue the storyline.

And if they did you would have definitely had a post saying " hey, why dioes SGU keep wasting time on the storylines that should have already been resolved in the previous ep, blah, blah, blah". Can't win either way.

Jacdru
November 25th, 2010, 06:14 AM
Was anyone else disappointed that they didn't even mention Ginn's death, or how Eli's dealing with it? I'm not sure how much time is supposed to be passing between episodes, but it seems like they should've had at least one scene where he was crying on Chloe's shoulder, or something. But he seems to suddenly be back to his normal self (well, normal for him anyway)

Nope, its just the way SGU does things, you have a epsiode with loads of emotion and character arcs devlopement just to be shot down the next episode.

It might become better the next few episodes but watch season 1 and start season 2 and you will see the same thing.

Jacdru
November 25th, 2010, 06:16 AM
I don't see the point. This episode wasn't about Eli

Yet SGU writers could fit in his "i am loosing her (Chloe) " bla bla cry moment.

Explain how that fits in and not him and Rush grieving over the loss of the women they were suppose to love.

jelgate
November 25th, 2010, 06:41 AM
Yet SGU writers could fit in his "i am loosing her (Chloe) " bla bla cry moment.

Explain how that fits in and not him and Rush grieving over the loss of the women they were suppose to love.

Beacause saying goobye to Chloe because of her transformation was a story in this episode.

dgh64
November 25th, 2010, 06:57 AM
And if they did you would have definitely had a post saying " hey, why dioes SGU keep wasting time on the storylines that should have already been resolved in the previous ep, blah, blah, blah". Can't win either way.

Um, no. I came home from work thinking "Can't wait to see SGU. I wonder how Eli's dealing with his loss, now that the immediate crisis is over. They kinda left that hanging last episode, but I hope they resolve it well."

AndSoItBegins
November 25th, 2010, 07:01 AM
Um, no. I came home from work thinking "Can't wait to see SGU. I wonder how Eli's dealing with his loss, now that the immediate crisis is over. They kinda left that hanging last episode, but I hope they resolve it well."

Um, yes. I wasn't saying that would have been YOUR reaction. Just the reaction of others if TPTB had focused time on Eli's grief over his girlfriend of about two days.

Jacdru
November 25th, 2010, 07:03 AM
Beacause saying goobye to Chloe because of her transformation was a story in this episode.

Ahh, so Eli and the rest of the crew can only deal with one grief thing at a time

jelgate
November 25th, 2010, 07:05 AM
Ahh, so Eli and the rest of the crew can only deal with one grief thing at a time

I never said that. If you look up to a previous post the episode wasn't about. He was only in a few scenes. An episode not about him would be jarring to include a grieving scene.

dgh64
November 25th, 2010, 07:09 AM
Okay here's an example: In Divided Chloe sided with Rush and Wray to try to take over the ship. A couple episodes later, there was a scene where Eli was in the mess hall and she came over and asked if he could forgive her and they could still be friends. That's not what the episode was about, but the writers still put in a brief scene saying "okay this is how they're dealing with what happened".

tomalak
November 25th, 2010, 07:13 AM
Yeah it's annoying how they don't continue the storyline.

So I guess in your imagination everybody deals with grief in the same way; by openly expressing their feelings. A rather limited imagination, don't you think?

jelgate
November 25th, 2010, 07:14 AM
Okay here's an example: In Divided Chloe sided with Rush and Wray to try to take over the ship. A couple episodes later, there was a scene where Eli was in the mess hall and she came over and asked if he could forgive her and they could still be friends. That's not what the episode was about, but the writers still put in a brief scene saying "okay this is how they're dealing with what happened".It kind of was. You can't have Chloe and Eli going on an off-world mission if one is ticked off at the other.

tomalak
November 25th, 2010, 07:15 AM
Yet SGU writers could fit in his "i am loosing her (Chloe) " bla bla cry moment.

Explain how that fits in and not him and Rush grieving over the loss of the women they were suppose to love.

Because the loss of Chloe was the episode's B-plot?

Kelara
November 25th, 2010, 07:17 AM
It kind of was. You can't have Chloe and Eli going on an off-world mission if one is ticked off at the other.

Yeah, you can only do this with Greer and Rush... or Young and Rush... but not Chloe and Eli... sure :rolleyes:.

jelgate
November 25th, 2010, 07:21 AM
Yeah, you can only do this with Greer and Rush... or Young and Rush... but not Chloe and Eli... sure :rolleyes:.

Apples to oranges comparrassion. Their relationship is different. Eli and Chloe have always been more of a friendship then an antagonizing relationship. They wouldn't want to go off-world if the two were ticked off with one another. Contrast is that Young and Rush always know they will dislike one another

Briangate78
November 25th, 2010, 07:25 AM
Was anyone else disappointed that they didn't even mention Ginn's death, or how Eli's dealing with it? I'm not sure how much time is supposed to be passing between episodes, but it seems like they should've had at least one scene where he was crying on Chloe's shoulder, or something. But he seems to suddenly be back to his normal self (well, normal for him anyway)


That is how Stargate has always been, so was really no surprise things were just reset and a new story emerges or continues from a past episode. Even Rush seemed to be back on track on things. There was not even a mention about the events that happened last week. A few lines from each character would of been sufficient, imo.

Kelara
November 25th, 2010, 07:27 AM
Apples to oranges comparrassion.

Seeing you of all people type that just made me laugh. I know you'll never concede a point, out of principle, but it's always fun to see how you turn the next argument your way. Carry on.

jelgate
November 25th, 2010, 07:29 AM
Seeing you of all people type that just made me laugh. I know you'll never concede a point, out of principle, but it's always fun to see how you turn the next argument your way. Carry on.

Keep it to the issue and leave personal problems to PM. This thread is not about me.

vszulc
November 25th, 2010, 07:31 AM
That is how Stargate has always been, so was really no surprise things were just reset and a new story emerges or continues from a past episode. Even Rush seemed to be back on track on things. There was not even a mention about the events that happened last week. A few lines from each character would of been sufficient, imo.

Yeah and it worked in that context, but SGU was supposed to be about drama and characters, no?
It's poor characterization, if the people don't change, and have their behaviour reflect the circumstances and recent events.
Or in this case, if only Young has actual charactergrowth and struggles.

dgh64
November 25th, 2010, 07:34 AM
It kind of was. You can't have Chloe and Eli going on an off-world mission if one is ticked off at the other.

Oh, but you can have Eli flying Kinos and stuff, even going to talk to Chloe about her problems, while he's super-depressed about his dead girlfriend, that's fine...

Briangate78
November 25th, 2010, 07:36 AM
Yeah and it worked in that context, but SGU was supposed to be about drama and characters, no?
It's poor characterization, if the people don't change, and have their behaviour reflect the circumstances and recent events.
Or in this case, if only Young has actual charactergrowth and struggles.

See, after the Greater Good, you had Young telling Rush, to take a break relax we'll call you when something important happens, and Rush seemed very appreciated. It is things like that, that continue the characterization. The Rush and Young conflict should be over now, if it is not, then these characters are going nowhere. Young trusting Rush and vice versa is a huge character development aspect. Now with Eli and Rush from "Malice" there was nothing to show for that episode in the next one. So sometimes they continue it and sometimes they don't. As I said many times the Young and Rush conflict has been my favorite drama for the show, but it had to end eventually, and I loved the way it ended.

jelgate
November 25th, 2010, 07:38 AM
Oh, but you can have Eli flying Kinos and stuff, even going to talk to Chloe about her problems, while he's super-depressed about his dead girlfriend, that's fine...

Like I said this episode was about Chloe changing so yes it makes sense in that context

Jacdru
November 25th, 2010, 07:42 AM
I never said that. If you look up to a previous post the episode wasn't about. He was only in a few scenes. An episode not about him would be jarring to include a grieving scene.

I know but serious this is why SGU has so low ratings, it has absolut no arc-development, and it doesnt have to be much, like the one with chloe after the "civil-war" came and said hey eli you ok with this, it could have been the same with Eli and rush or anyone, just a brief exchange while they walked down the hall.

dgh64
November 25th, 2010, 07:44 AM
Like I said this episode was about Chloe changing so yes it makes sense in that context

It was also about the people on the shuttle coming back, it was about TJ's grief over her baby, and they even included a shot of the repair bot working on the hydroponics dome, which is something very minor they mentioned way back in Trial and Error...... like I said, episodes can involve more than one story arc at a time.

vszulc
November 25th, 2010, 07:46 AM
See, after the Greater Good, you had Young telling Rush, to take a break relax we'll call you when something important happens, and Rush seemed very appreciated. It is things like that, that continue the characterization. The Rush and Young conflict should be over now, if it is not, then these characters are going nowhere. Young trusting Rush and vice versa is a huge character development aspect. Now with Eli and Rush from "Malice" there was nothing to show for that episode in the next one. So sometimes they continue it and sometimes they don't. As I said many times the Young and Rush conflict has been my favorite drama for the show, but it had to end eventually, and I loved the way it ended.

No reason to continue that drama just for kicks, but it seems like Young is the only character that goes to actual growth, and whose portrayal reflect the story.
Rush just lost the love of his life. Eli as well. You think their behaviour in last episode shows that? I'm asking cause I really don't. Eli's waltzing around cracking lame jokes and being Chloes emotional doormat like usually.


Like I said this episode was about Chloe changing so yes it makes sense in that context

Well isn't the point of a drama with focus on characters that the characters are more than props? That they change and act accordingly to what happens around them, even IF the focus of the episode is on another character.

vszulc
November 25th, 2010, 07:48 AM
like the one with chloe after the "civil-war" came and said hey eli you ok with this, it could have been the same with Eli and rush or anyone, just a brief exchange while they walked down the hall.

WRONG! Chloe sat down at another table at breakfast the next day! And Eli looked at her sadly! And... Eh, well yeah, that was pretty much it.

Hmmm, I think you might have a point here.

Mozzza
November 25th, 2010, 07:50 AM
I think it was a decision made to drop the Ginn/Amanda death line for now for three reasons (I also think it was a good decision.)

-Many people were very unhappy about their deaths and hated the decision to kill them off, by extending the grief, those viewers may decide to drop SGU all together.
-Malice felt like a good ending to the chapter. The gun at the end signified a close.
-Moving the grief aside allowed for concentration to the upcoming cliff hanger.

jelgate
November 25th, 2010, 08:00 AM
It was also about the people on the shuttle coming back, it was about TJ's grief over her baby, and they even included a shot of the repair bot working on the hydroponics dome, which is something very minor they mentioned way back in Trial and Error...... like I said, episodes can involve more than one story arc at a time.

The hydrophonics bay was used because they wanted an alone scene between Caine and TJ so it was very much part of the story. I just don't see the point of just randomly inserting an Eli grieving over Ginn. We got enough of that last week and he wasn't in this episode that much

xxxevilgrinxxx
November 25th, 2010, 08:33 AM
I know but serious this is why SGU has so low ratings, it has absolut no arc-development, and it doesnt have to be much, like the one with chloe after the "civil-war" came and said hey eli you ok with this, it could have been the same with Eli and rush or anyone, just a brief exchange while they walked down the hall.

I think it's a stretch to state that there is no arc development when what appears to be the case is 'no immediate arc development'. This is not an episodic offering. For all you know, this could be an issue in a later episode, as in, not one focusing on another character. Seriously, if we were to be offered developments on the effects on every single character, each episode would be 3 hours long :) Not that I'd mind, but seriously, they've got about 42 minutes to present a story that furthers the storyline they're developing. Maybe we're just expected to accept that grief, hair washing, bathroom breaks, and craziness all happen and let the episodes be the episodes? :D

kamae
November 25th, 2010, 04:17 PM
Was anyone else disappointed that they didn't even mention Ginn's death, or how Eli's dealing with it? I'm not sure how much time is supposed to be passing between episodes, but it seems like they should've had at least one scene where he was crying on Chloe's shoulder, or something. But he seems to suddenly be back to his normal self (well, normal for him anyway)


I thought the same thing

Jacdru
November 25th, 2010, 04:23 PM
I think it was a decision made to drop the Ginn/Amanda death line for now for three reasons (I also think it was a good decision.)

-Many people were very unhappy about their deaths and hated the decision to kill them off, by extending the grief, those viewers may decide to drop SGU all together.
-Malice felt like a good ending to the chapter. The gun at the end signified a close.
-Moving the grief aside allowed for concentration to the upcoming cliff hanger.

One huge problem with that idea , when do you think the episode was shot? a good guess is that its not shot before they aired the episode with Ginn´s death.

So nah nothing that clever , its just SGU producers in a nutshelll where they dont use the previous arc development - (That much)

But one thing though you might be right in, they might be using the grief and previous epsiodes events for a huge cliffhanger where they all just go nuts and kill each other or something else

Jacdru
November 25th, 2010, 04:55 PM
I think it's a stretch to state that there is no arc development when what appears to be the case is 'no immediate arc development'. This is not an episodic offering. For all you know, this could be an issue in a later episode, as in, not one focusing on another character. Seriously, if we were to be offered developments on the effects on every single character, each episode would be 3 hours long :) Not that I'd mind, but seriously, they've got about 42 minutes to present a story that furthers the storyline they're developing. Maybe we're just expected to accept that grief, hair washing, bathroom breaks, and craziness all happen and let the episodes be the episodes? :D

Your right in maybe we should let episodes be episodes but most good shows have a red line through all their episodes where something, it might be small or even big things are like a rock you threw in the water, it makes ripples that goes outward making an impact on things away from the initial impact.

Also one thing that really bugs me, seriously how are anyone to believe that the Eden people would be so stupid that they wouldn´t be able to survive the winter?

Like they wouldn´t have been able to fix the door or make a door that would keep most of the heat in and let them store food and water and wood for the fire for the duration of the winter.

And if anyone says “well they don’t know how long the winter is” well that’s not true, they came by star-ship and by that they would know the planets rotation and its orbit around the sun. So they would have a pretty good idea about how long the winter is.

And come on I know they are “egg-heads” and probably not used to fix mechanics, but they are clever so they would have been able to learn it fast or read the manual for the tools they took with them.

All in All the writers must have had their head on their arm when they made this episode or the whole episode was just to round up the Eden storyline and give back a shuttle to Destiny.

The Destiny
November 25th, 2010, 05:06 PM
The shuttle was broken and power was out. It's a million year old ancient spaceship, they might be smart people but it's not like fixing a household appliance ( which isn't always easy either without knowledge of how it works ). If they need to leave the door open the cold will get in, big gap or small gap, especially if it is a long and harsh winter with limited supplies. I'm not suprised they didn't make it. And I found their fate to be quite dramatic, a bit macarbe even. I liked that sad notion, dying of cold a billion lightyears from home.

I guess it was too bad we didn't see Eli and Rush' grief but I think to resolve that properly you'll need to dedicate some more screentime instead of scenes of a few seconds. Eli or Rush randomly crying in a corner isn't clear enough. Also they were occupied with the return of the Eden people, but mostly I think it would need some proper scenes.

xxxevilgrinxxx
November 25th, 2010, 05:13 PM
Your right in maybe we should let episodes be episodes but most good shows have a red line through all their episodes where something, it might be small or even big things are like a rock you threw in the water, it makes ripples that goes outward making an impact on things away from the initial impact.

Also one thing that really bugs me, seriously how are anyone to believe that the Eden people would be so stupid that they wouldn´t be able to survive the winter?

Like they wouldn´t have been able to fix the door or make a door that would keep most of the heat in and let them store food and water and wood for the fire for the duration of the winter.

And if anyone says “well they don’t know how long the winter is” well that’s not true, they came by star-ship and by that they would know the planets rotation and its orbit around the sun. So they would have a pretty good idea about how long the winter is.

And come on I know they are “egg-heads” and probably not used to fix mechanics, but they are clever so they would have been able to learn it fast or read the manual for the tools they took with them.

All in All the writers must have had their head on their arm when they made this episode or the whole episode was just to round up the Eden storyline and give back a shuttle to Destiny.

I think you may be looking for things to be bugged about :)
I've yet to see Visitation so I don't know if there's "no" tie in to previous events (I've found that a surprising amount of people don't see a lot of things. I'm not saying this is the case for you, just that I've seen it before). Plot points have not always followed up in the abutting episode, so expecting that something that took place in the last MUST be noted upon here isn't paying attention to every other episode that's gone before. As for the scientists, assuming that because they know it's winter that they're smart enough (or have the resources) to survive that winter is quite a stretch. Pitch a good deal of us into the middle of winter with the belief that magical aliens/gods will take care of us might mean some of us won't plan for anything and end up dead.

AndSoItBegins
November 25th, 2010, 07:51 PM
You know they probably did have a scene or two in which Eli mentioned it but it was dropped for time purposes. Listening to the DVD commentaries of season one its clear scenes are chopped all the time. In fact in an upcoming episode that had flashbacks of TJ's past, the flashbacks were thrown out the window for time purposes as well. So my guess is any comments about Ginn were booted. The early kino scene with Eli in "Visitation" was so abrupt, so quick that I'm sure it probably lasted at least another minute which would mean during that time he may have talked about Ginn's death. Just a hunch.

pipi
November 26th, 2010, 02:05 AM
So I guess in your imagination everybody deals with grief in the same way; by openly expressing their feelings. A rather limited imagination, don't you think?

You're assuming I give a damn about watching Eli grief, which I don't. It's just a personal preference that I want to watch the series as one big long story like BSG. This episode was so out of place, it felt like a cheap budget coverup. Same thing happen from Pathogen to Cloverdale. Money talks, and that's why they don't feature the LA every episode because they can't afford it, which is a shame.

garhkal
November 26th, 2010, 02:09 AM
Maybe hes hiding it from everyone and will soon explode

Agreed. I know several people who like rush, put all their grief asside and went righ into continuing to work, till it came back out...


That is how Stargate has always been, so was really no surprise things were just reset and a new story emerges or continues from a past episode.


The only time i can remember them NOT languashing on it, was with wier, and when daniel died..


It was also about the people on the shuttle coming back, it was about TJ's grief over her baby, and they even included a shot of the repair bot working on the hydroponics dome, which is something very minor they mentioned way back in Trial and Error..

When?? All i saw was a fully repaired dome and lab.. And TJ walking someone around showing them the new bay.

Nth Chevron
November 26th, 2010, 04:37 AM
The repair bot was outside the dome, look for its shadow and the sparks as it welds :)

I wasnt too chuffed to see Eli back to being (almost) the humorous centre of the crew, as Eli wasnt that emotionally mature it should have hit him harder than Rush.

I can only Eli does go off the rails to some degree soon just to show that problems as complicated as 'Malice' arent solved with a simple gunshot and a fade to black.

N.C

MattSilver 3k
November 26th, 2010, 04:47 AM
I understand that losing Chloe was more the story this week than losing Ginn a week ago, but all it would've taken was one line. Seriously.

Eli's Kino Scene: "I'm losing Chloe... like I lost Ginn."

Bam. That's it. That would've told us he was still thinking about her, added a weight to the potential loss of Chloe and just really would've been a better alternative to nothing. Ideally, I would've gotten that and a small Rush moment, but nope. Only Greer's sling referenced Malice.

Probably my first actual disappointment with the show's writers since how the LA was dealt with in Aftermath.


You know they probably did have a scene or two in which Eli mentioned it but it was dropped for time purposes. Listening to the DVD commentaries of season one its clear scenes are chopped all the time. In fact in an upcoming episode that had flashbacks of TJ's past, the flashbacks were thrown out the window for time purposes as well. So my guess is any comments about Ginn were booted. The early kino scene with Eli in "Visitation" was so abrupt, so quick that I'm sure it probably lasted at least another minute which would mean during that time he may have talked about Ginn's death. Just a hunch.

See, that makes sense, yeah, but some things like that really shouldn't be cut. It's a character show, and the tiniest things matter, especially if it ties into the previous episodes and doesn't make the character look like he doesn't care. They could've easily trimmed the fat off some other scenes for at least twenty seconds and just one impacting Eli line.

Sami_
November 26th, 2010, 04:58 AM
Do people really want to see every single character depressed on Destiny?

lars
November 26th, 2010, 05:01 AM
Eventually he figured out he knew the girl for like 2 weeks, was making out a little and that's it. People rarely fall in undying love on first sight.. But people may get desperate and lonely when they're some billion light years away from home. So from my side, he may well be very disturbed of a person dying abruptly, but I wouldn't like him grieving for the rest of the season.

lars
November 26th, 2010, 05:07 AM
Do people really want to see every single character depressed on Destiny?

Just out of curiosity, does it depress you seeing depressed people on a TV show ? Just asking because I've read quite a bunch of posts from you implying something like this.

As for your question, I for one don't want to see everybody depressed all the time, but I can't object if they feel like this the majority of the time given the circumstances. Visitation was quite the perfect mix of emotions IMHO; we had quite a few scenes with people working on the situation and getting used to it, i.e. the atheistic-booze-guy who talked with Rush about the radiation-thingy. When people complain about such mundane things like lack of booze, I'll take it as a hint they won't start a mutiny soon or shoot themselves in the head. On the other side there was TJ, majorly depressed. Quite fitting, if you ask me.

MattSilver 3k
November 26th, 2010, 05:07 AM
Do people really want to see every single character depressed on Destiny?

Well when one character actually has half a decent reason to be sorta depressed a week later, then maybe it should actually happen. And besides, I don't think everyone's depressed... at once. It's a rotation system - this week Wray and Young escaped the cut.

Pecisk
November 26th, 2010, 05:21 AM
Eli's Kino Scene: "I'm losing Chloe... like I lost Ginn."

For what reason? We see that he suffers - and it is enough. We know that he suffers for them both - for Ginn and Chloe. Yes, he mentions only Chloe. Most of people would avoid to remember so painful stuff as Eli would when mentioning Ginn - he would be floored in seconds. Instead he eats it up (as good geek would do), but we see that he is disturbed.

Do you really need everything to bee spoon fed to you? :)

Sami_
November 26th, 2010, 05:26 AM
Just out of curiosity, does it depress you seeing depressed people on a TV show ? Just asking because I've read quite a bunch of posts from you implying something like this.

I wouldn't say it makes me depressed but it can definitely kill a good mood and it certainly doesn't improve my mood. Its more oppressing than anything else.

Mozzza
November 26th, 2010, 05:27 AM
One huge problem with that idea , when do you think the episode was shot? a good guess is that its not shot before they aired the episode with Ginn´s death.

So nah nothing that clever , its just SGU producers in a nutshelll where they dont use the previous arc development - (That much)

But one thing though you might be right in, they might be using the grief and previous epsiodes events for a huge cliffhanger where they all just go nuts and kill each other or something else

You don't think the crew were able to predict that people would be upset with Amanda/Ginn's death? :P - I think they did. But maybe you're right and it's just the way they do things. I'm new to the SG world.

MattSilver 3k
November 26th, 2010, 05:28 AM
Do you really need everything to been spoon fed to you? :)

Oh-ho! Funny. Nice one dude, but this isn't about being spoon-fed or anything, it's about what I think should be a natural progression, what I saw in the episode, and what I, if I were writing, would've done. Not once did I watch the show and think, "Eli's really torn up about Ginn, and it shows". No, all I saw was "Eli's torn up about what's happening to Chloe", which is understandable, but a completely different thing. And I wasn't pining for a big monologue or something, just one name-drop or the tiniest thing that could sell a thousand emotions at once. Also, we had the biggest set-up in all history for Eli to link what's happening to Chloe to what happened to Ginn, and how it would effect him and all of that, combined with a theme about death and moving on like with the whole Faith planet guys.

Not only that, but it just feels like a return to a more serialised show where problems were almost forgotten about the next week, and I just... expected more. It was a big character episode, the opportunity and everything else was there, and I didn't need much. Just something.

Jacdru
November 26th, 2010, 06:10 AM
Do people really want to see every single character depressed on Destiny?

Of course not, but i think most people would like to see things happen to them carry on more then just to the end of the current episode.

Jacdru
November 26th, 2010, 08:04 AM
You don't think the crew were able to predict that people would be upset with Amanda/Ginn's death? :P - I think they did. But maybe you're right and it's just the way they do things. I'm new to the SG world.

Not really i know a lot of people who dont like Ginn and thought she was a huge mistake to put in the show.

And SGU does things their way, the producers have said countless times they dont care about their viewers and if you dont like how its done go watch something else :D

jelgate
November 26th, 2010, 08:28 AM
Not really i know a lot of people who dont like Ginn and thought she was a huge mistake to put in the show.

And SGU does things their way, the producers have said countless times they dont care about their viewers and if you dont like how its done go watch something else :D

Thats how most shows do it. Its impossible to please the fans so you shouldn't even try

Mozzza
November 26th, 2010, 03:21 PM
Not really i know a lot of people who dont like Ginn and thought she was a huge mistake to put in the show.

And SGU does things their way, the producers have said countless times they dont care about their viewers and if you dont like how its done go watch something else :D

Fair enough :).

Personally I thought the Ginn & Amanda storyline was great.

Meryl
November 26th, 2010, 05:14 PM
And SGU does things their way, the producers have said countless times they dont care about their viewers and if you dont like how its done go watch something else :D
What you just said is stupid. You can not like how its done, yet still enjoy the show and have the right to criticize it and post your opinion on a public board.

Jacdru
November 26th, 2010, 06:44 PM
What you just said is stupid. You can not like how its done, yet still enjoy the show and have the right to criticize it and post your opinion on a public board.

Eh? can you try that one again?

Gollumpus
November 26th, 2010, 07:37 PM
Was anyone else disappointed that they didn't even mention Ginn's death, or how Eli's dealing with it? I'm not sure how much time is supposed to be passing between episodes, but it seems like they should've had at least one scene where he was crying on Chloe's shoulder, or something. But he seems to suddenly be back to his normal self (well, normal for him anyway)

The kid is fickle.

regards,
G.

Gollumpus
November 26th, 2010, 07:39 PM
Not really i know a lot of people who dont like Ginn and thought she was a huge mistake to put in the show.

YOU ARE NOT OF THE BODY!!!

regards,
G.

smart
November 26th, 2010, 08:43 PM
Although Eli was not a central aspect of the storylines presented, the writers could have incorporated acknowledgement of his recent loss, through a very brief conversation or expression involving Eli. This would help pursue a sense of realism and continuity , in accordance to the serialized nature of the show, just as Greer had a cast on his elbow from when he was shot by Simeon.

pipi
November 26th, 2010, 08:45 PM
Of course not, but i think most people would like to see things happen to them carry on more then just to the end of the current episode.

I agree with this dude hnear. This episode was lacking in a bit of time context that's all. They could have even screened this episode before Ginn died, and it would have still been okay. To link one episode with the next does not have to involve depression. It could be as simple and short as reminiscing at a photo then continuing with life on board. Or maybe Young could have a chat with Varro about how to avoid another situation. These small scenes gives better viewing diversity than just one plot and climax per episode in my opinion.

dgh64
November 26th, 2010, 09:09 PM
Eventually he figured out he knew the girl for like 2 weeks, was making out a little and that's it.

They did quite a bit more than just make out. In The Greater Good we saw his "YOU ARE HERE" shirt on Ginn's bed. So, not sure exactly how far things went, but still pretty intimate, more than just kissing.


So from my side, he may well be very disturbed of a person dying abruptly, but I wouldn't like him grieving for the rest of the season.

I'm not saying he has to walk around crying for the rest of the season, I just wish he didn't bounce back in only a few days. He seemed pretty upset at first, when he actually wanted to take a gun and kill Simeon. That's a very strong emotion, and I didn't find it very believable for him to get over it so quickly.

Nemuro
November 26th, 2010, 10:06 PM
I think I'd have to agree with the sentiment that the episode wasn't about Eli. Actually Eli was pretty much at the bottom of the list in terms of character focus. There was Caine and the scientists with Wray, Young, TJ and Rush. And then Chloe, Scott and Greer with a little bit of Eli.

I think it is more realistic to have Eli bottle it up and not speak to anyone about it for a while, after such a big outburst of grief sometimes people try to save face. That is until the facade bursts. Besides we had people like Park the episode before try and reach out and was lashed at. I don't really want to see more of that, that is if it is Park getting snapped at again.

It will be brought up again I bet with a Eli centric episode. I've noticed that he certainly isn't so cheery and a bit passive aggressive, I've forgotten a bit of the specifics of the episode but he was being impatient and pushy with Chloe.

I wonder the time that has passed between this episode and the one before too. It doesn't seem to have directly flowed on like the Kill Simeon arc. Could have been a week or two.

dgh64
November 26th, 2010, 10:24 PM
Greer's arm was still in a sling, so it's less than however long it take a bullet wound in the shoulder to heal.

garhkal
November 27th, 2010, 12:24 AM
Maybe the powers that be DID film it, but for what ever reason it made it on the cutting room floor for time constraints.. and we will see it in a Kinosode.

MattSilver 3k
November 27th, 2010, 01:50 AM
Maybe the powers that be DID film it, but for what ever reason it made it on the cutting room floor for time constraints.. and we will see it in a Kinosode.

We don't get kinosodes anymore.

/downer.

thekillman
November 27th, 2010, 10:10 AM
it's highly probable that some of those scenes died in the cutting room.


but people can swallow their pain and grief and express it at other times. right now i see no need to anvil the fact that both lost beloved. Eli has a job to do. Rush has a job to do. both know that, and right now there is no real substitute for them. even if rush was dying he wouldn't allow anyone else near critical systems.

also work tends to be a pretty good diversion for people with grief.

lastly, it's safe to assume Eli talked to Chloe. and that he cries in bed. Rush doesn't really have anyone to talk to, but i guess he can get over it by work, like he did with Gloria

i scent revisiting this in some flashback/mind game episode

Kelara
November 27th, 2010, 01:17 PM
...but people can swallow their pain and grief and express it at other times. right now i see no need to anvil the fact that both lost beloved. Eli has a job to do. Rush has a job to do.

Well, considering Rush *cried* in front of Scott and Greer in Malice and Eli went and played soldier boy dress up, ready to do a Rambo imitation on Simeon (as did Rush), it's still a stretch to assume they suddenly internalize every single speck of emotion. They were both pretty demonstrative in the last episode.

My bet is still on written and/or filmed out of order. It's a little like when the gang gated back to Destiny after Lost, when they had lost Greer and didn't acknowledge the fact that he might have been dead. There's a video of Levesque and Blue commenting that by the time they were shooting that scene, the previous episode wasn't written, so no one had an idea that they should be kind of surprised to see Greer ;).

blueray
November 27th, 2010, 02:51 PM
i think that eli is trying to move on and is grieving silently.

as for rush, to me he seems to be the type that will grieve when alone mostly (except for that one scene). and will take his grieve into action (as seen in the show).

young was depressed on everything that was happening, but he is beginning to realize he needs to be a better commander.

sgc
November 28th, 2010, 08:14 PM
i think that eli is trying to move on and is grieving silently.

as for rush, to me he seems to be the type that will grieve when alone mostly (except for that one scene). and will take his grieve into action (as seen in the show).

young was depressed on everything that was happening, but he is beginning to realize he needs to be a better commander.

I agree about Rush and Young. Rush went to his quarters in "Air" and wept silently. However, Eli is more of a person who grieves with others IMO. He will probably talk about it with Chloe later, but the rest of it will probably be in private.

Angela V
November 28th, 2010, 10:29 PM
Am I the only one who saw the grief on Eli's face in this episode? I didn't see the need for a melt down or anything this episode. With the situation with Chloe I'm sure we'll see more of a response of him being depressed. I certainly didn't get the feeling Eli was back to his old self at all.

As for Rush he had a melt down in front of Greer and Scoot and I had the feeling he may have felt embarrassed about that. He always seems to want people to see him in control. In this episode he seems to be using his work as an excuse to move on.

In SGU I don't see the grief that both of these characters went through to be locked in closet and never to resurface again.

thekillman
November 28th, 2010, 11:36 PM
Well, considering Rush *cried* in front of Scott and Greer in Malice and Eli went and played soldier boy dress up, ready to do a Rambo imitation on Simeon (as did Rush), it's still a stretch to assume they suddenly internalize every single speck of emotion. They were both pretty demonstrative in the last episode.

but that was his realisation that he was responsible for it all.

people deal with grief in different ways. Rush is more the type that uses work to do that

Mozzza
November 28th, 2010, 11:37 PM
Rush is more the type that uses work to do that

I wish I was more like Rush in that sense.

garhkal
November 29th, 2010, 04:49 AM
Well, considering Rush *cried* in front of Scott and Greer in Malice and Eli went and played soldier boy dress up, ready to do a Rambo imitation on Simeon (as did Rush), it's still a stretch to assume they suddenly internalize every single speck of emotion. They were both pretty demonstrative in the last episode.

My bet is still on written and/or filmed out of order. It's a little like when the gang gated back to Destiny after Lost, when they had lost Greer and didn't acknowledge the fact that he might have been dead. There's a video of Levesque and Blue commenting that by the time they were shooting that scene, the previous episode wasn't written, so no one had an idea that they should be kind of surprised to see Greer ;).

But look at how much time just walking it took for rush to do so..


Am I the only one who saw the grief on Eli's face in this episode? I didn't see the need for a melt down or anything this episode. With the situation with Chloe I'm sure we'll see more of a response of him being depressed. I certainly didn't get the feeling Eli was back to his old self at all.

Must have missed it..

Perelandra
November 29th, 2010, 07:21 AM
Am I the only one who saw the grief on Eli's face in this episode? I didn't see the need for a melt down or anything this episode. With the situation with Chloe I'm sure we'll see more of a response of him being depressed. I certainly didn't get the feeling Eli was back to his old self at all.

As for Rush he had a melt down in front of Greer and Scoot and I had the feeling he may have felt embarrassed about that. He always seems to want people to see him in control. In this episode he seems to be using his work as an excuse to move on.

In SGU I don't see the grief that both of these characters went through to be locked in closet and never to resurface again.

I agree with this post. Plus I think their grief may be addressed more in depth in a future episode.

Jaemal
November 29th, 2010, 08:06 AM
I understand that losing Chloe was more the story this week than losing Ginn a week ago, but all it would've taken was one line. Seriously.

Eli's Kino Scene: "I'm losing Chloe... like I lost Ginn."

Bam. That's it. That would've told us he was still thinking about her, added a weight to the potential loss of Chloe and just really would've been a better alternative to nothing. Ideally, I would've gotten that and a small Rush moment, but nope. Only Greer's sling referenced Malice.

Probably my first actual disappointment with the show's writers since how the LA was dealt with in Aftermath.



See, that makes sense, yeah, but some things like that really shouldn't be cut. It's a character show, and the tiniest things matter, especially if it ties into the previous episodes and doesn't make the character look like he doesn't care. They could've easily trimmed the fat off some other scenes for at least twenty seconds and just one impacting Eli line.

I agree, it would have been great to see something like this. They should have cut something with Caine to make room for it (if this was the reason it wasn't shown) he was annoying enough in the episode.

stargatetravler
January 3rd, 2011, 11:25 AM
Camille has tried to ask him about it and his face just hardened as he turned and walked away. He just doesn't want to talk about it because it hurts too much. Even Chloe tried to console him but he brushed her off. I think we'll see Eli crack eventually. Right now he's choosing not to talk about it.