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View Full Version : Why would the aliens do this? - Something that puzzles me.



ahdvd
November 24th, 2010, 04:38 AM
Ok, something that really puzzles me about why the aliens would do this - they reanimated the group's bodies and sent them back to desiny, but for what reason?
The thing that's weird to me is relating back to TJ's baby and what she saw in 'intervention'. We KNOW that what she saw DID happen on some scale, because the aliens showed her the blue nebula BEFORE destiny came out of FTL at episode's end and see it themselves.

Going back to the events of that episode and the 'vision' that she had, it seems obvious now that she was seeing the group in some kind of afterlife or suspended ascension state AFTER they had all died on the planet, Caine said that they 'found' the log cabins and started to receive signs of contact from the aliens, but i think that this was a lie, that he and the group all remembered dying, knew they were dead, but did'nt tell TJ because they knew she was only visiting them to be able to see her daughter 'alive' and give her hope.
The reanimated group appear to have no memory whatsoever of these events, even Caine, once he remembered everything from on the planet and himself dying, he never says anything to TJ about seeing her and the baby on the planet, so this must have happened to their 'souls' - the part that he said was missing.

The thing im confused about is, if TJ was allowed to see them, to be able to say goodbye to her baby and to them, then what's the point in reanimating them and sending them back to Destiny? - If it was done with the intention of them returning permenantly, why not reanimate and send back her baby with them?

coZma
November 24th, 2010, 05:06 AM
Or it was just Destiny trying to comfort her, maybe it saw some suicidal tendencies or some other kind of mental instability and planted an image of the nebula as it was seen by the seeder ships so that TJ would have something to hang to.

Shai Hulud
November 24th, 2010, 05:12 AM
Caine, or the alien Caine avatar created to deceive TJ, says to her something along the lines of "Its up to you to decide if this is a blessing or a curse" before she gets sent back to the Destiny, if she ever really left. Perhaps the Magrathean aliens arent really that benevolent? Certainly the nice warm cabins appear to have been a fiction created specifically for TJ as the people left on the planet only had the shuttle for shelter in reality.

tomstone
November 24th, 2010, 05:58 AM
Caine, or the alien Caine avatar created to deceive TJ, says to her something along the lines of "Its up to you to decide if this is a blessing or a curse" before she gets sent back to the Destiny, if she ever really left. Perhaps the Magrathean aliens arent really that benevolent? Certainly the nice warm cabins appear to have been a fiction created specifically for TJ as the people left on the planet only had the shuttle for shelter in reality.

For all we know they could have been Dead already.

zainea13
November 24th, 2010, 06:03 AM
yes. I think what the OP is saying is that. Caine etc were already dead. And TJ sort of, dropped off her baby's soul to their souls for protection. Like she was allowed to escort her child to heaven. maybe. Sounds kinda good to me :) . But I don't think it will ever fully be answered intentionally.

General Jumper One
November 24th, 2010, 06:13 AM
Like Young said, "Feels like a science experiment" - not an exact quote but similar to what he said

garhkal
November 24th, 2010, 06:32 AM
So maybe the vision/dream TJ had was the planet builders, taking her to their 'realm' where they exist, taking the baby (which at this point has died), and giving her the vision to make her feel all was ok..

And i do think by the time it happened, the planet dwellers were already dead.

Shai Hulud
November 24th, 2010, 06:43 AM
What possible reason could the Magrathean's have for reanimating the 8 people left on the planet and then whisking them off to another galaxy to meet up with the Destiny? Caine asks Rush about the Destiny's original mission, perhaps that's what the Magrathean's were after?

tomstone
November 24th, 2010, 06:45 AM
What possible reason could the Magrathean's have for reanimating the 8 people left on the planet and then whisking them off to another galaxy to meet up with the Destiny? Caine asks Rush about the Destiny's original mission, perhaps that's what the Magrathean's were after?

Magratheans? Sorry, but who is that?

Shai Hulud
November 24th, 2010, 06:47 AM
Magratheans? Sorry, but who is that?

Planet builders? I take it your not a Douglas Adams fan then? ;)

Nathan Reynolds
November 24th, 2010, 06:55 AM
Sorry but for me the thing with the Baby it was all in TJ's head. Young even says "We know that what you saw was a simulation." meaning that was Destiny or herself that made that up. And the blue nebula is just for us(the audance) to keep wondering. But it didnt happend for real.

Utitan
November 24th, 2010, 06:56 AM
There is way too much speculation about this. The "dream" TJ had about her baby was manifested by the ship. It has nothing to do with the planet builders, or the survivors that didn't survive. This is why they touched on this again at the beginning of this epi.

I can see how one could bring it to be that the nebula, cabins, etc are functions of the souls after their death. But it isn't written in or even implied in any way. I do think it will be revisited later, They didn't introduce those aliens or planet builders not to explore them more.

tomstone
November 24th, 2010, 07:00 AM
Planet builders? I take it your not a Douglas Adams fan then? ;)

Sorry, never heard of him. Shoot me now! :ronananime16: :jack_new_anime18:

For your previous post, the more I think about it the more I am convinced that its rather the Blues then the Margratheans who are playing with us.

Brian N
November 24th, 2010, 07:09 AM
Why does everything have to have a reason? Maybe the aliens did it just because they can. Or to show the crew they exist. I think the aliens temporarily revived them so they can say good bye to the crew, since it's mainly their own fault they died.

xxxevilgrinxxx
November 24th, 2010, 07:11 AM
Ok, something that really puzzles me about why the aliens would do this - they reanimated the group's bodies and sent them back to desiny, but for what reason?...

I think that perhaps people are expecting these aliens to behave like aliens we've seen in previous episodes - ascended, but essentially "us" - when these guys may be truly alien. That level of intelligence doesn't necessarily imply benevolence. We could be lab rats or playthings to them, or worse.

Shai Hulud
November 24th, 2010, 07:13 AM
Sorry, never heard of him. Shoot me now! :ronananime16: :jack_new_anime18:


Honestly? Hitch Hikers Guide To The Galaxy? Classic, off the wall SciFi from a magnificent writer. I really do suggest you phone your local library and order some of his books!

Pharaoh Atem
November 24th, 2010, 07:19 AM
Like Young said, "Feels like a science experiment" - not an exact quote but similar to what he said

yup a weird one

Shai Hulud
November 24th, 2010, 07:23 AM
Methinks that the Trojan Horse analogy is a good one. The Magrathean's wanted to know more about these strange bipedal hairless apes that happen to have landed on and then perished upon one of their planets so they whip up a few doppelgänger's and send them back to Destiny to infiltrate and observe the Destinites and to find out the purpose of the Destiny project. Once Rush confirms to Caine what the mission is all about they start dropping like flies, coincidence?

tomstone
November 24th, 2010, 07:36 AM
Honestly? Hitch Hikers Guide To The Galaxy? Classic, off the wall SciFi from a magnificent writer. I really do suggest you phone your local library and order some of his books!

I know the movie, but not much more of him and I am sorry to say that I didnt really care for that movie. I watched it and found it quite entertaining and semi-ridicolous, which gave it plus points.

Shai Hulud
November 24th, 2010, 07:45 AM
I know the movie, but not much more of him and I am sorry to say that I didnt really care for that movie. I watched it and found it quite entertaining and semi-ridicolous, which gave it plus points.

It wasnt a bad movie, the books are awesome though! :)

thekillman
November 24th, 2010, 09:51 AM
i think the TJ dream was a good old Out of Body Experience. no Destiny powers or Magrathean power.


found it quite entertaining and semi-ridicolous
i think that that was the purpose. like Tea being the hardest thing to synthesize in the entire universe.

the Magratheans IMO didn't transport anything or anyone. i believe they just completely created the shuttle and contents from scratch. like the planet and star.

i think they did this to tell the Destiny people what had happened

eonflux
November 24th, 2010, 12:00 PM
I think that the aliens really tried to help. I think that the notion of death eludes them. The probably found them in that state and with the knowledge and power they had the brought them back to life. Thinking that was the best thing to do.

marty2006
November 24th, 2010, 07:01 PM
Its pissing me off actually. These 'aliens' doing magic tricks behind the curtain without any real purpose or explanation of why they are doing so. Thus us having to endure the nonsense being spouted by the likes of scott and the people who came back from the planet. Its been about a season since we first encountered these so called magical aliens and as of yet have been given no further info on them other than they like white lights and enjoy doing things just for the hell of it.

the fifth man
November 24th, 2010, 07:20 PM
Hopefully we may learn more about these aliens by seasons end.

wolverine_nl
November 25th, 2010, 01:07 AM
The aliens send a message this way, that the Destiny crew should never stop untill their mission is succeeded.
Caine's crew were not fully revived and without a soul, Caine did not have all of his memories, just what was needed, because these aliens probably have respect for faith, so these people cannot escape their faith and this way they could say goodbye and bring a new shuttle. It is also a message that is a kind of warning not to go searching for them, cause of the high intelligence difference.

Shiarnaq
November 25th, 2010, 02:08 AM
So maybe the vision/dream TJ had was the planet builders, taking her to their 'realm' where they exist, taking the baby (which at this point has died), and giving her the vision to make her feel all was ok..

And i do think by the time it happened, the planet dwellers were already dead.

The problem I have with this is that by the time TJ had her dream or vision they were already in the current galaxy, the Faith planet was in the previous galaxy. So far all ascended beings have been restriced to their own galaxy and even there they still used Stargates to travel great distances.

Shai Hulud
November 25th, 2010, 02:31 AM
Perhaps the Magrathean's didnt want a tatty, busted up shuttle spoiling the views on Eden so they returned to sender.

Jumper_One
November 25th, 2010, 04:39 AM
Nathan writes: “The kind of aliens that would put people back with their friends and kind of family, knowing they’d just die. How horrible is that!?!?”

Answer: The aliens didn’t know they would just end up dying again. They assumed they had “fixed” them.
http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2010/11/24/november-24-2010-comic-haul-the-return-of-the-weird-food-purchase-of-the-day-snow-monkeys-go-for-their-sixth-win-eight-games/

wolverine_nl
November 25th, 2010, 04:48 AM
http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2010/11/24/november-24-2010-comic-haul-the-return-of-the-weird-food-purchase-of-the-day-snow-monkeys-go-for-their-sixth-win-eight-games/

I expected him to keep that in the loop, cause it doesnt make sense that the ones we saw in the ep were the originals but didnt have their memories intact

General Jumper One
November 25th, 2010, 06:35 AM
The problem I have with this is that by the time TJ had her dream or vision they were already in the current galaxy, the Faith planet was in the previous galaxy. So far all ascended beings have been restriced to their own galaxy and even there they still used Stargates to travel great distances.

Morgan Le Fay has not be restricted to the MW galaxy, she has been seen on Atlantis in the Pegasus Galaxy, many planets in the MW, and in the Ori Galaxy

gravityStar
November 25th, 2010, 03:16 PM
I don't communicate with ants. When I was young I have watched them. I have poked at them. I have watched as they struggled to get out of water. Sometimes I have helped them. Sometimes I have killed them. Sometimes I have just stepped on them. Not on purpose, but not trying to avoid them either.

But I have never sent any message to any ant.

If these beings are so far ahead of us as is implied, then they simply don't care about us. Maybe one or more of them was having a really good eon, was in a good mood, and took 2 seconds out of its existence to help one of the bugs running around its planet. Maybe it's now watching the bugs to see what they do next. Maybe it doesn't care anymore and is doing something else.

tinerin
November 25th, 2010, 03:34 PM
Morgan Le Fay has not be restricted to the MW galaxy, she has been seen on Atlantis in the Pegasus Galaxy, many planets in the MW, and in the Ori Galaxy

And how do you know that she wasn't shadowing Daniel Jackson through the stargate to both Pegasus and the Ori galaxy? Even ascended Orlin and the Pegasus chick used the stargate to travel within a galaxy.

Gatefan1976
November 25th, 2010, 03:38 PM
I know the movie, but not much more of him and I am sorry to say that I didnt really care for that movie. I watched it and found it quite entertaining and semi-ridicolous, which gave it plus points.

Sorry for the OT post here

The movie for HHGttG was "ok" but the BBC miniseries was a bucket-load better :D

OT:
Is there now 2 threads discussing almost identical points now, or am I now hallucinating?

garhkal
November 26th, 2010, 02:02 AM
Planet builders? I take it your not a Douglas Adams fan then? ;)

Nope.. never read any of his stuff.. but i did hear that name before.


Once Rush confirms to Caine what the mission is all about they start dropping like flies, coincidence?

That is an interesting hypothesis... But didn't that chick die before rush was talking with caine?


The problem I have with this is that by the time TJ had her dream or vision they were already in the current galaxy, the Faith planet was in the previous galaxy. So far all ascended beings have been restriced to their own galaxy and even there they still used Stargates to travel great distances.

Who's to say they are the same as our ascended ancients?? Maybe they are higher up on the 'ascended evolutionary chain and so are not tied to their home galaxy.

eonflux
November 26th, 2010, 11:44 AM
I don't communicate with ants. When I was young I have watched them. I have poked at them. I have watched as they struggled to get out of water. Sometimes I have helped them. Sometimes I have killed them. Sometimes I have just stepped on them. Not on purpose, but not trying to avoid them either.

But I have never sent any message to any ant.

If these beings are so far ahead of us as is implied, then they simply don't care about us. Maybe one or more of them was having a really good eon, was in a good mood, and took 2 seconds out of its existence to help one of the bugs running around its planet. Maybe it's now watching the bugs to see what they do next. Maybe it doesn't care anymore and is doing something else.

I believe what you said is partly true. But the part of them not caring feel wrong to me. The reasoning is that these aliens can relate to us. Because they had been there (level of tech and knowledge) millions of years ago. Also an ant is an ant. It doesnt travel the stars in spaceships. Maybe it wil in millions of years time but I hghly doubt it. Else it would have evolved a long time ago if you look at how long they have been around.

Also i think the aliens did this out of remorse and guild. I would feel guilty if i build something and that something ended up being the reason someone died.

blackluster
November 26th, 2010, 11:55 AM
I tend to agree with Young's assessment that this act is like a big experiment. It does seem like a pretty clever, if cruel way to learn about a new race. Show them their dead and see how they react. You'd instantly find out a lot about their level of progression, their society and their beliefs.

VampyreWraith
November 26th, 2010, 01:27 PM
I don't communicate with ants. When I was young I have watched them. I have poked at them. I have watched as they struggled to get out of water. Sometimes I have helped them. Sometimes I have killed them. Sometimes I have just stepped on them. Not on purpose, but not trying to avoid them either.

But I have never sent any message to any ant.

If these beings are so far ahead of us as is implied, then they simply don't care about us. Maybe one or more of them was having a really good eon, was in a good mood, and took 2 seconds out of its existence to help one of the bugs running around its planet. Maybe it's now watching the bugs to see what they do next. Maybe it doesn't care anymore and is doing something else.

Lol, I used to play with ants and watch ants too when I was a kid. Sometimes I'd smush them a bit but not kill them(I was a kid lol) and watch the other ants come by and pick up the smushed ant and carry it off; sometimes I'd drop crumbs so they could eat; I used to like watching them carry the crumbs around.
I saw the Faith aliens almost the same way you did. They might have never encountered humans and maybe they were curious about them when they found them on the planet they made; so the watched them for a bit. I don't think they were being malicious in watching them die on the planet; maybe they just didn't know better or care much since they didn't really know much about humans and perhaps thought them insignificant. Finally only one of them was left and he was going to die and maybe one of the aliens felt bad for Caine and about everything that happened to the others; maybe one of the aliens had grown attached(in a way) to the humans on the planet, and started to understand the humans and what they had been/were going through, and tried to fix them and send them back to the others like them.

Python
November 26th, 2010, 01:54 PM
http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2010/11/24/november-24-2010-comic-haul-the-return-of-the-weird-food-purchase-of-the-day-snow-monkeys-go-for-their-sixth-win-eight-games/

So the aliens didn't know that a woman would die of head trauma WITHOUT a blow to head? Oh good, because that's what I and every other sound-thinking person would think as well. So, if they don't know how it happened, shoot. Guess we'll never get an explanation for that one.

Smooth. [/sarcasm]

dacooker
November 26th, 2010, 02:56 PM
I don't communicate with ants. When I was young I have watched them. I have poked at them. I have watched as they struggled to get out of water. Sometimes I have helped them. Sometimes I have killed them. Sometimes I have just stepped on them. Not on purpose, but not trying to avoid them either.

But I have never sent any message to any ant.

If these beings are so far ahead of us as is implied, then they simply don't care about us. Maybe one or more of them was having a really good eon, was in a good mood, and took 2 seconds out of its existence to help one of the bugs running around its planet. Maybe it's now watching the bugs to see what they do next. Maybe it doesn't care anymore and is doing something else.

Yes, yet they sell ant farms and people buy them.

Just saying, some people take interest in different things. How many ascended beings are there? We've only ever seen a few, the few that took interest.

Puddle-Jumper
November 26th, 2010, 04:34 PM
The aliens did it as a gift I think, to them it was giving the people that stayed behind a chance to say good bye...

nx01a
November 26th, 2010, 04:54 PM
I think that perhaps people are expecting these aliens to behave like aliens we've seen in previous episodes - ascended, but essentially "us" - when these guys may be truly alien. That level of intelligence doesn't necessarily imply benevolence. We could be lab rats or playthings to them, or worse.I'm hoping for something along those lines.

VampyreWraith
November 26th, 2010, 05:19 PM
The aliens did it as a gift I think, to them it was giving the people that stayed behind a chance to say good bye...

I saw it as a chance to say goodbye until I read JM's blog where he said the aliens didn't know that the people would die again when they sent them back. Was that just his interpretation of it or how its supposed to actually be seen? Either way I think the alien(s) felt bad about what went down on the planet, especially after they saw Caine dying alone in the cold, then at least one of them decided to intervene and do something to try to help the humans.

Nth Chevron
November 26th, 2010, 06:35 PM
It could just be a simple matter of legal tenants vs squatters :d

N.C

VampyreWraith
November 26th, 2010, 07:54 PM
lol, but dead squatters wouldn't be a problem anymore. :P

GoodSmeagol
November 26th, 2010, 08:22 PM
What possible reason could the Magrathean's have for reanimating the 8 people left on the planet and then whisking them off to another galaxy to meet up with the Destiny? Caine asks Rush about the Destiny's original mission, perhaps that's what the Magrathean's were after?

This sounds really plausible, and deceptive, however.
Then why return a perfect condition shuttle to us?

That is what really puzzles me about this, other then the writers wanting a shuttle back, but why brand new?

erotavlas
November 27th, 2010, 10:01 AM
This sounds really plausible, and deceptive, however.
Then why return a perfect condition shuttle to us?

That is what really puzzles me about this, other then the writers wanting a shuttle back, but why brand new?

they brought everyone else back in new condition why not the shuttle too? I think the shuttle was too damaged in order to support the crew through whatever transportation brought them back to Destiny. Plus if the thrusters were not working either they would not have been able to to dock. Restoring the shuttle was the only way to get them back to the Destiny aside from transporting them directly onto the ship which may not have been possible anyway depending what they are using for transportation.

megablue
November 27th, 2010, 11:36 AM
I don't communicate with ants. When I was young I have watched them. I have poked at them. I have watched as they struggled to get out of water. Sometimes I have helped them. Sometimes I have killed them. Sometimes I have just stepped on them. Not on purpose, but not trying to avoid them either.

But I have never sent any message to any ant.

If these beings are so far ahead of us as is implied, then they simply don't care about us. Maybe one or more of them was having a really good eon, was in a good mood, and took 2 seconds out of its existence to help one of the bugs running around its planet. Maybe it's now watching the bugs to see what they do next. Maybe it doesn't care anymore and is doing something else.

Yes, you were young. What if the being that "rescued" the left behind wasn't young? What if they are not only technological advanced but also have great wisdom and compassion?

You said you never send a message to ant... it is because you don't know how to.

Perhaps the being is already advanced enough yet they had the same question as well... The message left behind right after the big bang? Perhaps, the being were ancients (or something close to accented being) that sent Destiny. They wanted the mission to be completed and for some reason they cant find out what is the message about.

skarwolf
November 28th, 2010, 07:13 AM
I saw it as a chance to say goodbye until I read JM's blog where he said the aliens didn't know that the people would die again when they sent them back. Was that just his interpretation of it or how its supposed to actually be seen? Either way I think the alien(s) felt bad about what went down on the planet, especially after they saw Caine dying alone in the cold, then at least one of them decided to intervene and do something to try to help the humans.

Reminds me of something that happened when I was a kid in this summer camp. We caught a frog and wanted to show the class. We brought it back to the class but everyone had left for the day. We had an aquarium so we figured put it in there sans water but covered, to show them the next day. We come back and the frog is dried up, dead. We didn't know that would happen to the frog.

Similarly the aliens wouldn't know human physiology/biology and are beyond living/death/having soul biblethumperism etc.

What I don't get it is these so called aliens being so far beyond human comprehension why would they give a crap at all ? Like Jodi Foster was told in Contact, what would these aliens care if we wiped out that ant hill in Africa.

erotavlas
November 28th, 2010, 08:12 AM
Reminds me of something that happened when I was a kid in this summer camp. We caught a frog and wanted to show the class. We brought it back to the class but everyone had left for the day. We had an aquarium so we figured put it in there sans water but covered, to show them the next day. We come back and the frog is dried up, dead. We didn't know that would happen to the frog.

Similarly the aliens wouldn't know human physiology/biology and are beyond living/death/having soul biblethumperism etc.



I think they knew our biology. It probably had more to do with the second law of thermodynamics (entropy) They tried to reverse the entropy of the human bodies back to the state they were in when they first landed on the planet. For some reason it did not hold.



What I don't get it is these so called aliens being so far beyond human comprehension why would they give a crap at all ? Like Jodi Foster was told in Contact, what would these aliens care if we wiped out that ant hill in Africa.

What I don't get is that you're so beyond frog comprehension, why would you give a crap about some frog? :)

Skiznot
November 28th, 2010, 09:47 AM
Hi, I was on vacation in Planet Arizona. Luckily I had itunes and wifi. I think the aliens fixed the shuttle and tried to fix the people but failed. As if there was cellular memory of what happened and the aliens tried to erase that memory but failed and once the people remembered they reverted back to their damaged state.

stargatetravler
January 3rd, 2011, 11:33 AM
I think in the next 10 episodes more of this will be answered. I keep hoping we'll learn more about the aliens that built that planet.

greenguywithlasereye
January 8th, 2011, 11:23 AM
wasnt there an inscription in an alien language found on the obelisk? I forget but if theres an image id love to see it once more. from what i remember it was just fancy design squiggles.

asgard of course had obelisks that transported at short range such as thors hammer - but if this obelisk is a long range transporter it reminds me of the trajector technology in the ST:VOY episode 'prime factors'. whoever made it knows a bit about 'a little intergalactic transport'