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DigiFluid
November 23rd, 2010, 08:48 PM
Okay so I know this was not the way the episode ended up, but did anyone else get the feeling throughout the episode that the deaths were being caused by them remembering 'too much'?

First you've got Eli chatting with the one woman, and the moment he asks her about the obelisk she starts gushing blood and dies. And then Camille is hypnotizing the one guy, and as he starts to remember everything, he dies.

They went completely the other direction with the subsequent deaths, but it was just something I found a bit too coincidental.

tinerin
November 23rd, 2010, 08:54 PM
I think it was intentionally written like that to distract viewers from what was actually happening.

Loheat
November 23rd, 2010, 08:56 PM
Okay so I know this was not the way the episode ended up, but did anyone else get the feeling throughout the episode that the deaths were being caused by them remembering 'too much'?

First you've got Eli chatting with the one woman, and the moment he asks her about the obelisk she starts gushing blood and dies. And then Camille is hypnotizing the one guy, and as he starts to remember everything, he dies.

They went completely the other direction with the subsequent deaths, but it was just something I found a bit too coincidental.
Thats what I thought until the other deaths. Coincidentally the one guy they hypnotized first was the one person who died before everybody else.
I thought it was because they were told what had happened, but I think they just died in the order they died before

Nemises
November 23rd, 2010, 08:59 PM
Yes i thought of it too but thats not the reason since couple of them died in there sleep and weren't questioned.

Replicator Todd
November 23rd, 2010, 09:02 PM
Okay so I know this was not the way the episode ended up, but did anyone else get the feeling throughout the episode that the deaths were being caused by them remembering 'too much'?

First you've got Eli chatting with the one woman, and the moment he asks her about the obelisk she starts gushing blood and dies. And then Camille is hypnotizing the one guy, and as he starts to remember everything, he dies.

They went completely the other direction with the subsequent deaths, but it was just something I found a bit too coincidental.

Indeed, when the woman died I thought it was because she thought of something to do with the obelisk. I very much thought they were dying off so something would be kept hidden.

Pharaoh Atem
November 23rd, 2010, 09:03 PM
it's always eli's fault :P

senilegreen
November 23rd, 2010, 09:43 PM
Okay so I know this was not the way the episode ended up, but did anyone else get the feeling throughout the episode that the deaths were being caused by them remembering 'too much'?



Yes, until they discovered the woman sitting in her room with all the wounded skin. Then it became obvious that this was out of their control.

themeatcleaver
November 23rd, 2010, 09:54 PM
so is BAG dead too?

hedwig
November 23rd, 2010, 10:05 PM
so is BAG dead too?

It would seem so, since all of that group died.

themeatcleaver
November 23rd, 2010, 10:07 PM
It would seem so, since all of that group died.

aww, sad Thanksgiving :(

mere earthling
November 23rd, 2010, 10:10 PM
I think no matter what happened they would have died. Caine said he was already dead, he had figured it out. What's interesting to me is why bring them back to the ship?

PG15
November 23rd, 2010, 10:26 PM
BAG never dies.

His body may die, but that's not important. His essence will live on forever.

powerdbygarrett
November 23rd, 2010, 10:45 PM
I really do not think that he is dead, everyone else is but i really think he will live.

from the Keno you can see he is still alive when the light appears, you DONT actually see him dying. He noticed the bright white light appear.

I think he sticks around

Ouroboros
November 23rd, 2010, 11:02 PM
Okay so I know this was not the way the episode ended up, but did anyone else get the feeling throughout the episode that the deaths were being caused by them remembering 'too much'?

First you've got Eli chatting with the one woman, and the moment he asks her about the obelisk she starts gushing blood and dies. And then Camille is hypnotizing the one guy, and as he starts to remember everything, he dies.

They went completely the other direction with the subsequent deaths, but it was just something I found a bit too coincidental.

That was exactly the feeling I got. Some peculiarity of the way the aliens reanimated them meant that they had to wipe their memories as well because if they remembered their own death their minds/bodies would reject the reanimation somehow and they'd die again.

Why else would they erase their memories as well.

It seemed like once the whole notion of some of them dropping dead started to get around they all probably started dwelling on it and thinking about their time on the planet excessively and this caused them to eventually remember their own deaths.

I'll admit though, I initially thought that they broke into the obelisk looking for food/shelter, pissed off the aliens and had kill switches put in their heads in case the mind wipe failed after they were forcibly evicted across two galaxies.

That woman's brain leaked out her ears the minute Eli mentioned the obelisk afterall.

thekillman
November 24th, 2010, 02:42 AM
That was exactly the feeling I got. Some peculiarity of the way the aliens reanimated them meant that they had to wipe their memories as well because if they remembered their own death their minds/bodies would reject the reanimation somehow and they'd die again.
it appears that Caine is the only person with the Faith necessary to accept his death. the other people, i believe, simply couldn't handle the thought. how would you feel if you're suddenly reincarnated.

i think the Aliens didn't really intend them to die. they wanted to allow them a goodbye, but our digging screwed that up.


it reminds me of the Orpheus story: he gets his woman from the Underworld, but isn't allowed to look back during their ascent to the normal world. if he does, she disappears. guess what he did.

it's what happened in the episode. the Crew "looked back" into the "underworld" and subsequently, they "disappeared "




That woman's brain leaked out her ears the minute Eli mentioned the obelisk afterall.

i personally felt there was something in the Lake :D

Gatz
November 24th, 2010, 03:58 AM
At first I also thought it was some kind of mechanism to prevent them from remembering too much.

J-Whitt Remastered
November 24th, 2010, 05:19 AM
That was exactly the feeling I got. Some peculiarity of the way the aliens reanimated them meant that they had to wipe their memories as well because if they remembered their own death their minds/bodies would reject the reanimation somehow and they'd die again.

Why else would they erase their memories as well.

It seemed like once the whole notion of some of them dropping dead started to get around they all probably started dwelling on it and thinking about their time on the planet excessively and this caused them to eventually remember their own deaths.

I'll admit though, I initially thought that they broke into the obelisk looking for food/shelter, pissed off the aliens and had kill switches put in their heads in case the mind wipe failed after they were forcibly evicted across two galaxies.

That woman's brain leaked out her ears the minute Eli mentioned the obelisk afterall.

That's pretty much exactly what I was thinking. Maybe those that weren't questioned on camera were questioned by other members of the crew, or as you say they started dwelling on it too much and remembered on their own. OR maybe the aliens were watching and decided that things were to dangerous with the Eden-ites being questioned. Afterall all they really wanted was to get them of their planet and return them to the ship.

garhkal
November 24th, 2010, 06:35 AM
Okay so I know this was not the way the episode ended up, but did anyone else get the feeling throughout the episode that the deaths were being caused by them remembering 'too much'?

First you've got Eli chatting with the one woman, and the moment he asks her about the obelisk she starts gushing blood and dies. And then Camille is hypnotizing the one guy, and as he starts to remember everything, he dies.

They went completely the other direction with the subsequent deaths, but it was just something I found a bit too coincidental.

Initiallyi i was thinking it had something to do with the remembering.. kind of like what happened to Oneill and co when danny "DIED" in fire and ice...

blueray
November 24th, 2010, 11:45 AM
op: i thought that at first too, that when it came out that they were dying in the order that they actually died it was much more interesting.

as someone said on another thread, it would have been better if they all died from different things (instead of a massive freezing to death).

thekillman
November 24th, 2010, 12:37 PM
the first died of blunt trauma, the second of intense freezing, the rest of hypothermia.

how many ways do you need?

spaceship
November 24th, 2010, 12:39 PM
Well one of them got bonked on the head by a falling tree. How many unusual deaths do you want?

Nth Chevron
November 24th, 2010, 01:28 PM
I dont think they are dead, i think this episode is a massive red herring.

Any being with the power to move a shuttle that far, instantaneously, with the people on board being reanimated versions of their dead selves and containing their original memories, thoughts - souls etc. Would have been able to fully restore them and not allow them to die, especially if they did indeed build that planet and star.

From the moment that Brody or Volker said "Caines more monotone than that" i got the distinct impression that we were being tested to see what would happen IF the real crew members reappeared right next to Destiny, throw into the mix the kino recording and the timed deaths and you have the potential to see us at our worst or our best.

Young could have just ordered everyone shot and dumped out the airlock as soon as the womans skull spontaneously bashed itself in, but he didnt, we showed compassion and all the good things, we saw it through to the end.

As the general consensus is, that 'Eden' was created by super aliens, i find it harder to believe they could create something of that magnitude and then not properly fix the people they sent to us, properly implant memories and personalities - because many of the people would have to be alive for reliable personality copies, but they were dead, the kino recording again no problem.

Hell, even SGC/Goa'uld could do those things properly, Goa'ulds living for thousands of years, the memory device found in SG-1 season 9.

I believe this episode was a test, to see if Destiny crew were ready to meet the super aliens and have their friends returned to them.

We will see.

N.C

wolverine_nl
November 25th, 2010, 01:14 AM
The super aliens sent them not fully revived back with a purpose, to let them say goodbyes, to show they do not mess to a certain point with faith(kinda non-interfere, but slightly different), they just moved the moment, plus they may know Destiny's mission or want to know it and want to see them moving on and not stopping and settling on some planet. TJ also got to hear what she needed to move on and live life to the fullest and complete the mission.

Mozzza
November 25th, 2010, 05:49 AM
It was actually all Eli's fault. I bet this will be a major plot twist near the end of the episode. Eli has super powers and has killed Ginn and the lady from Eden. What you didn't see when Wray was hypnotising was Eli in the background staring at the guy evily. The same goes for all the other crew.

Eli is a murder and "WILL NEVER BE DONE!!!"

:P:P

nx01a
November 25th, 2010, 09:08 PM
So the first two die after trying to or actually remembering what happened to them on the planet. If they hadn't tried to remember, do you think they'd have died? Well, died again?

Rush's sarcastic argument about belief is that you don't have to explain it because it's faith and God. The minute they tried to remember, they all started croaking. Maybe the aliens would have let them live if they kept the faith and remained blissfully ignorant.

Mozzza
November 25th, 2010, 10:00 PM
So the first two die after trying to or actually remembering what happened to them on the planet. If they hadn't tried to remember, do you think they'd have died? Well, died again?

Rush's sarcastic argument about belief is that you don't have to explain it because it's faith and God. The minute they tried to remember, they all started croaking. Maybe the aliens would have let them live if they kept the faith and remained blissfully ignorant.

Well that's the thing. The ordering was correct, but the timing is interesting and definitely not correct. I think it may be something to do with trying to remember, but that may have just been to distract the audience.

This still leaves the question unanswered though, why? I think Wray said that she thought there was something that the aliens didn't want us to know, so I think this will play a role.

Trinary
November 25th, 2010, 11:34 PM
I think they all reanimated and send back to Destiny as a messenger to tell the story what happened to them and how they all ended dead.

It;s a lesson, news and a free new shuttle. As simple as that...

nx01a
November 25th, 2010, 11:43 PM
I think they all reanimated and send back to Destiny as a messenger to tell the story what happened to them and how they all ended dead.If that's the case, then these Planet Builders are even more cruel and twisted than the Ori. They're sadistic. Reanimating bodies only to have them die again and shock those watching, making them feel helpless and potentially in danger? All the power in the Stargate: Universe and you can't sent a text message detailing what happened? Bad God! Bad!

Trinary
November 25th, 2010, 11:50 PM
If that's the case, then these Planet Builders are even more cruel and twisted than the Ori. They're sadistic. Reanimating bodies only to have them die again and shock those watching, making them feel helpless and potentially in danger? All the power in the Stargate: Universe and you can't sent a text message detailing what happened? Bad God! Bad!

They already dead. Their soul can't be captured to continue in the new body. So, what is point to let them live too long without a soul? At least, by telling to the people they know how they died, their soul can move on and rest is peace. Wouldn't that how the human soul journey should be fulfilled?

nx01a
November 26th, 2010, 12:03 AM
Do humans have souls? Do humans in the Stargate universe:D have souls? Who knows?

I think it's cruel to temporarily reanimate a body that can feel pain just to deliver a message, or for any purpose, really.

Trinary
November 26th, 2010, 12:19 AM
Nothing cruel about it. Cruel to who anyway?

Killing people is cruel. Life is cruel for lazy people. Cruel is an invention from people who want to escape responsibilities in life.

nx01a
November 26th, 2010, 12:55 AM
Dying horribly only to be reanimated only to die again horribly... I don't know what you consider cruelty, but that's cruelty to me. ;)

Nth Chevron
November 26th, 2010, 03:48 AM
Another thing that makes me think this is a test, is that, all throughout the episode, people are searching and detailing the shuttle, Rush and Scott in the beginning, and only at the end did they find the kino?

I think it was planted after the shuttle was searched - for why, we dont know yet .

N.C

Python
November 26th, 2010, 04:32 AM
Well, the first woman died of "head trauma" ostensibly from a fallen tree. As you can see in the episode, there are no trees on the observation deck with Eli and the others. This physical impossibility befalls her nonetheless. Then there are the thermodynamics, or lack thereof, of people dying of hypothermia at room temperature. These seem like purposeful acts of a dark art.

But no, JM says it was an accident so that's what we believe. Even though they don't look like accidents. Why even bother making a show? Let's just do it like they do in England and have Question Time.

DigiFluid
November 26th, 2010, 05:50 AM
But no, JM says it was an accident so that's what we believe. Even though they don't look like accidents. Why even bother making a show? Let's just do it like they do in England and have Question Time.
For what it's worth, I think that TPTB blogs and Q&As are one of the worst evolutions in television history.

It's one thing to share production anecdotes or amusing on-set happenings, but that's not where it ends. We're inundated with spoilers, to the point that people know how pretty much an entire season is going to go before it even begins airing. We get writers/producers talking about what exactly was meant by a specific scene, or line of dialogue, or event going on in the background.

There's no mystery, no excitement, no fan community dialogue and dissemination in an environment like this. People like me, spoilerphobes, have to seek out other spoilerphobes instead of just discussing openly. And there's always, always some jerk who pops in with relevant spoilers for a future episode.

It's a sad state of affairs, IMO.

MattSilver 3k
November 26th, 2010, 06:15 AM
It's one thing to share production anecdotes or amusing on-set happenings, but that's not where it ends. We're inundated with spoilers, to the point that people know how pretty much an entire season is going to go before it even begins airing. We get writers/producers talking about what exactly was meant by a specific scene, or line of dialogue, or event going on in the background.

There's no mystery, no excitement, no fan community dialogue and dissemination in an environment like this. People like me, spoilerphobes, have to seek out other spoilerphobes instead of just discussing openly. And there's always, always some jerk who pops in with relevant spoilers for a future episode.


I dunno man - to me there's a difference between a producer answering a minor question with their written interpretation, and spoilers. And then there's another one about spoilers and just teasers, the same you'd get in a promo pic or something.

To the issue of questions being answered elsewhere: Meh, I don't mind. There's so much that actually isn't covered by spoilers or JM's blog, so I can personally go wild with my theories and just by having a writer's mindset: If you come across a problem, you solve it in a logical way that fits in with the story and does the characters service. Sometimes you have to think outside the box and maybe even realise, to your own logic, that the actual show's writers screwed up, and sometimes you read another, more official, source and go, "Huh. That makes sense too. Both work, and if it's relevant again in the future, either or just the one might work for a new theory".

And besides, I'd rather have me or the actual writer fill the blank than fight with a forum full of people who seem more focused on the arguing rather than the answering. And because interpretations differ from person to person, fandom wars over the tiniest things are just... ugh.


And there's always, always some jerk who pops in with relevant spoilers for a future episode.

Yeah, they're not cool. But again, to me, there's a marked difference in spoilers and answers for past episodes, unless the answers tie into future episodes and basically lay it all out for us.

As for this part: "People could know the whole season going into it", I've pretty much escaped that. It helps, with SGU anyway, that by the time the back half is filming and spoilers about that current filming is aplenty, I'm watching the front half and not even thinking about what's happening next year.

hedwig
November 26th, 2010, 08:46 AM
I really do not think that he is dead, everyone else is but i really think he will live.

from the Keno you can see he is still alive when the light appears, you DONT actually see him dying. He noticed the bright white light appear.

I think he sticks around

My new notion about the white light is that it's the white light people walk towards when they're dying ... and then they die. Which would explain (for me) why Cain said he remembered dying, and it's something nobody should have to remember.

wolverine_nl
November 28th, 2010, 05:32 AM
My new notion about the white light is that it's the white light people walk towards when they're dying ... and then they die. Which would explain (for me) why Cain said he remembered dying, and it's something nobody should have to remember.

It's a Kino footage ;) It is not how Cain saw it, it is how it was recorded...so it isnt a bright light at the end of the tunnel

rushy
December 12th, 2010, 08:04 AM
Well, I think they died was because... remember the Bible. It was said that after Adam ate that apple, Eden was BANISHED TO HUMANITY FOREVER. So then, finally humanity returned, the ones who were convinced subconsciously by the Devil, stayed and died because Eden wasn't meant for humanity. Just a guess.

J-Whitt Remastered
December 12th, 2010, 10:58 AM
Well, I think they died was because... remember the Bible. It was said that after Adam ate that apple, Eden was BANISHED TO HUMANITY FOREVER. So then, finally humanity returned, the ones who were convinced subconsciously by the Devil, stayed and died because Eden wasn't meant for humanity. Just a guess.

There wasn't a sign that said, "Welcome to Eden. No humans allowed." They just named it Eden because they thought of it as a paradise. There's nothing there that has to do with the Biblical Eden.