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View Full Version : Simeon: missing on purpose?



dgh64
November 18th, 2010, 07:59 AM
I just watched Malice a second time, and noticed something strange, after Simeon was on the planet when Rush and Scott were going after him.

Okay, first he takes a shot at Scott and misses. Then a second later he shoots a Kino, twice. You have to have pretty good aim to make that shot, in rapid succession.

Then, right after Rush's breakdown, when Greer found the footprint Simeon took several shots that all missed. The boys took cover, but in the view from Simeon's scope we see a clear shot at Greer's exposed head and chest... and still he missed.

Then he finally shot Greer in the shoulder, could've easily been a kill shot but wasn't.

Then Simeon gave his speech about wanting Rush to live so his pain would be worse than death, that explains why he didn't kill Rush but why not Scott or Greer? He ended it by saying next time he would kill Rush.

When Rush shot at him in the 2nd canyon, he turned and shot back a bunch of times, and missed -- not really keeping his promise.

So... why isn't he trying very hard? He clearly has no problem with killing people. He killed Perry just because she happened to be in Ginn's body. He shot and killed several people before he left the ship. He put a bomb on Park's back, another one in the rocks to try to kill Rush, and another one that almost killed James and her team. But when it comes to shooting people, he seems to not understand that it's his survival he's fighting for.

jelgate
November 18th, 2010, 09:04 AM
Simeon is skilled but nothing is more powerful then the character shields

Tykari
November 18th, 2010, 09:13 AM
I think it has more to do with the fact he wanted them to back off and leave him on the planet. Wounding people makes it so others are forced to take them back to the gate. And with limited time available having to go back or wait for extra back-up is not a real luxery you have.

As for Rush at the end, the way he was approaching and the smile on his face I'd say he was going for the "dance before I kill you" cowboy type thing.

Ser Scot A Ellison
November 18th, 2010, 09:16 AM
I loved Rush's response to Simeon's statement that he had "Valuable information."

Ed
November 18th, 2010, 09:49 AM
he was stalling

simeons plan was to wait until destiny jumped and then gate hop back to the planet where the rest of his people where dumped.

If he did that the LA suddenly have a gate remote they can go to other places.

Loheat
November 18th, 2010, 09:52 AM
Had he killed Greer, Scott would have put all of his focus onto killing Simeon, so I agree with the possibility that he purposely wounded Greer to get rid of both him and Scott while he had the chance

droid327
November 18th, 2010, 09:56 AM
After the stampede, when Simeon was lying on the ground, did anyone else get an image of Rush asking him "Whats in the box!? Whats in the box!?!?!"

:D

dgh64
November 18th, 2010, 09:57 AM
I think it has more to do with the fact he wanted them to back off and leave him on the planet. Wounding people makes it so others are forced to take them back to the gate. And with limited time available having to go back or wait for extra back-up is not a real luxery you have.

As for Rush at the end, the way he was approaching and the smile on his face I'd say he was going for the "dance before I kill you" cowboy type thing.

Okay, well, he could've wounded Rush right at the beginning when his back was turned, when he was trying to disarm Park's backbomb. He also had multiple chances to wound both Scott and Greer but chose to shoot the ground instead.

Now that I think about it, right after he went through the gate with Park he should've turned around and dialed a random planet, then he could've escaped and they wouldn't know where he went.

MattSilver 3k
November 18th, 2010, 10:20 AM
Maybe he figured that seriously injuring somebody instead of killing them would force the Earthlings to turn back rather than abandon their injured. 'Cause as soon as Greer got hit, Scott retreated. As soon as James and her peeps got blown up, they went back. And he achieved this using as fewer bullets, mines and risk to himself as possible. It was actually a pretty solid plan - he didn't know the Destinites had control of the bridge, so he figured that he'd wait it out, not get himself killed, and then go on merrily his own way, having achieved what he set out to do by preventing Ginn from spreading the information. However, he didn't expect the Kino remote tracking thing, and that's what ultimately brought him down.


Now that I think about it, right after he went through the gate with Park he should've turned around and dialed a random planet, then he could've escaped and they wouldn't know where he went.

Maybe he thought that he would be immediately followed through the same wormhole he opened - like Rush did, and that's why he set the mine on Park and ran the hell away until the crew would give up.

boo1234
November 18th, 2010, 10:32 AM
the simple explanation is that they don't kill off main characters like that

marty2006
November 18th, 2010, 10:37 AM
Do you mean from the show in general? What a horrible misuse of a character.

Wayston
November 18th, 2010, 10:40 AM
I agree with the OP that simeon missed a couple of easy shots, such as initially with rush

basically he could have whacked everyone the moment they entered the planet from the gate, I seem to recall SG1 doing a lot of that against the Jaffa throughout the years

dgh64
November 18th, 2010, 10:48 AM
His plan should've been:

1. Go through the gate with Park
2. Use Park as a shield in case anyone follows. Shoot whomever follows through the same wormhole. (If it's someone unarmed like Rush, just shoot him in the knee so he can't fight)
3. As soon as the wormhole shuts down, dial another planet.
4. Take the remote back to the other LA guys, along with the weapons and stuff he loaded up on, and then gate-hop back to Destiny and try to retake the ship.

James71
November 18th, 2010, 12:34 PM
His plan should've been:

4. Take the remote back to the other LA guys, along with the weapons and stuff he loaded up on, and then gate-hop back to Destiny and try to retake the ship.

Destiny has been travelling in one general direction.
There have been numerous stops (by Rush) when zero gates were within range.
I doubt he could gate hop back to the other LA guys. Too many gaps between some areas of the gates.

That was possible in the other galaxy (Lost), but for some reason it might not be in this one.
Perhaps the gates are farther apart in this Galaxy. Especially with one fewer Seeder ships operating now.

droid327
November 18th, 2010, 01:35 PM
There were only three planets in range, and IIRC one of them was "a wasteland", so there was only one other address he could have dialed, and who knows where he could have gone from there. The remote might have given him that information when he stole it.

dgh64
November 18th, 2010, 01:43 PM
It's still possible, if there were gates outside of the "corridor" that Destiny is travelling along, that he could connect the dots and get back to his friends. Or maybe find a world inhabited by the pod aliens from Awakening and offer to help them board Destiny (with the remote). Either way, running around and just firing warning shots while a crazed Rush bent on revenge chases you down isn't a good plan.


There were only three planets in range, and IIRC one of them was "a wasteland", so there was only one other address he could have dialed, and who knows where he could have gone from there. The remote might have given him that information when he stole it.

The desert/rocky planet they were on might be described as "a wasteland"... whoever said that might have been told to focus on the planet's potential as a food/water source, and so said that to indicate that there was no need for them to go there.

droid327
November 18th, 2010, 01:49 PM
I thought so too, but the way he said it made me at first think it was completely uninhabitable, like toxic atmosphere or something.

Plus, though its arid, that world can obviously support herds of very large animals, so unless they're some kind of toxic, arsenic-based lifeform, Greer might have had the right idea when he asked about a BBQ :)

Kanten
November 18th, 2010, 05:47 PM
Do you mean from the show in general? What a horrible misuse of a character.

What?

erotavlas
November 18th, 2010, 07:15 PM
he was stalling

simeons plan was to wait until destiny jumped and then gate hop back to the planet where the rest of his people where dumped.

If he did that the LA suddenly have a gate remote they can go to other places.

thats one thing I don't get. What would be the point. They are trapped in a galaxy so far away with no humans around. What would Simeon hope to accomplish. Even if he could make his way back to the other LA, they could have a big reunion party and then realize 'Now what?'

morbosfist
November 18th, 2010, 07:16 PM
thats one thing I don't get. What would be the point. They are trapped in a galaxy so far away with no humans around. What would Simeon hope to accomplish.Maybe he just wanted company, or he felt he might be able to retake the ship with their help.

Cold Fuzz
November 18th, 2010, 07:27 PM
As for Rush at the end, the way he was approaching and the smile on his face I'd say he was going for the "dance before I kill you" cowboy type thing.

I think this is what Simeon was really doing. He proved he was a good shot when he scragged the kino. That takes a lot of precision to do that. Simeon could have killed Rush at any time.

He wasn't "missing" per se. He was toying with Rush and having a little fun before coming in for what he thought was the kill. That's definitely in his character.

But then there was the stampede. Oops. :P

Pharaoh Atem
November 18th, 2010, 07:28 PM
i loved rush's response to simeon's statement that he had "valuable information."

bang :d

garhkal
November 18th, 2010, 10:47 PM
I agree with the OP that simeon missed a couple of easy shots, such as initially with rush

basically he could have whacked everyone the moment they entered the planet from the gate, I seem to recall SG1 doing a lot of that against the Jaffa throughout the years

it is common with most shows to have the baddies (especiall bad ass ones) toy with their 'prey'.. just to show how bad ass they are.


thats one thing I don't get. What would be the point. They are trapped in a galaxy so far away with no humans around. What would Simeon hope to accomplish. Even if he could make his way back to the other LA, they could have a big reunion party and then realize 'Now what?'

Companionship. The capacity to decide your own fate..

dgh64
November 19th, 2010, 08:31 AM
it is common with most shows to have the baddies (especiall bad ass ones) toy with their 'prey'.. just to show how bad ass they are.

...and give the good guys plenty of time to trigger a stampede, plug a new power cell into their phaser, or somehow save the day using a rubber band, two paper clips, and a stick of gum. Stupid bad guys.

Wayston
November 19th, 2010, 11:28 AM
it is common with most shows to have the baddies (especiall bad ass ones) toy with their 'prey'.. just to show how bad ass they are.

Yes but it looked very silly in a show that takes itself soooo seriously in just about every other aspect. Not to mention the fact that in season 1 it was established how next to impossible chain jumping the gate system would be without a kino to check out environments first and without being able to know which way was jumping forward and which would be going backwards... yet now we were suddenly supposed to fear one guy being able to link up with a bunch of other people who are already weeks/months of FTL travel time away at best.

Demoniser
November 19th, 2010, 11:42 AM
Why did Simeon miss Grear?

1. Grear, Rush and Scott were arguing and moving around quite allot, not exactly an easy shot if he was aiming for a specific target.
2. Simeon had just been shot in the leg by Grear, somehow i think his aim might have been thrown off by that.

Why did he miss Rush? His injury and he was toying with Rush. Perhaps he assumed Rush was a rubbish shot and so thought he could actually get up close without getting killed, and then kill Rush.

Gollumpus
November 19th, 2010, 12:44 PM
I think this is what Simeon was really doing. He proved he was a good shot when he scragged the kino. That takes a lot of precision to do that. Simeon could have killed Rush at any time.

He wasn't "missing" per se. He was toying with Rush and having a little fun before coming in for what he thought was the kill. That's definitely in his character.

Yup.

I saw the earlier stuff as Simeon wanting to herd people where he could do maximum damage from bombs and the like. Pin down Scott and company, allow the others to close in on his position and then set off an explosion. Smart.

regards,
G.

RobertF
November 19th, 2010, 05:05 PM
His plan should've been:

1. Go through the gate with Park
2. Use Park as a shield in case anyone follows. Shoot whomever follows through the same wormhole. (If it's someone unarmed like Rush, just shoot him in the knee so he can't fight)
3. As soon as the wormhole shuts down, dial another planet.
4. Take the remote back to the other LA guys, along with the weapons and stuff he loaded up on, and then gate-hop back to Destiny and try to retake the ship.

The other Lucian Alliance people were dumped on a planet? I must have missed that -which episode was that?

morbosfist
November 19th, 2010, 05:17 PM
The other Lucian Alliance people were dumped on a planet? I must have missed that -which episode was that?End of "Aftermath".

garhkal
November 20th, 2010, 02:39 AM
...and give the good guys plenty of time to trigger a stampede, plug a new power cell into their phaser, or somehow save the day using a rubber band, two paper clips, and a stick of gum. Stupid bad guys.

Dat be hollywood for ya.. Heck, it seems to be a staple of all forms of fantasy; tv, films and novels..

revenant
November 20th, 2010, 09:56 AM
We never really see a dead Simeon - just Rush shooting at him. My speculations are usually wrong, but what if Rush missed him on purpose and left him to slowly die on the planet alone? He's just too "good" a villain to be disposed of so quickly.

BRiDGELiFE
November 20th, 2010, 03:49 PM
That is a possibility...... but I doubt Rush would have missed on purpose, I mean Simeon did just kill Amanda Perry, So I think Rush made his last shot count.

garhkal
November 22nd, 2010, 01:04 AM
Agreed.. though it would have been cool to see if nothing else, blood on his boots.

hart37
November 22nd, 2010, 03:48 AM
After the stampede, when Simeon was lying on the ground, did anyone else get an image of Rush asking him "Whats in the box!? Whats in the box!?!?!"

:D

I was thinking MUFASA.

I thought it was obvious why Simeon missed, he's what a stormtrooper looks like out of uniform.

Kayzersoze
November 22nd, 2010, 01:09 PM
After the stampede, when Simeon was lying on the ground, did anyone else get an image of Rush asking him "Whats in the box!? Whats in the box!?!?!"

:D
Kudos on the Se7en reference.

Personally, as Rush was walking towards Simeon I was thinking: if it were me, I'd try and cut one of his arms off, and beat him to death with that instead of shooting him. Headshot is just too quick & painless.

Back to the topic - the only miss shot I could see that was on purpose was not killing Greer. If he's killed Greer, Scott would have no reason to stay with him or take him back to the gate, and would in fact be more likely to go into man-revenge mode. Therefore Simeon would have both Scott and Rush after him, instead of just Rush.

xxxevilgrinxxx
November 22nd, 2010, 01:56 PM
I just watched Malice a second time, and noticed something strange, after Simeon was on the planet when Rush and Scott were going after him.

Okay, first he takes a shot at Scott and misses. Then a second later he shoots a Kino, twice. You have to have pretty good aim to make that shot, in rapid succession.

Then, right after Rush's breakdown, when Greer found the footprint Simeon took several shots that all missed. The boys took cover, but in the view from Simeon's scope we see a clear shot at Greer's exposed head and chest... and still he missed.

Then he finally shot Greer in the shoulder, could've easily been a kill shot but wasn't.

Then Simeon gave his speech about wanting Rush to live so his pain would be worse than death, that explains why he didn't kill Rush but why not Scott or Greer? He ended it by saying next time he would kill Rush.

When Rush shot at him in the 2nd canyon, he turned and shot back a bunch of times, and missed -- not really keeping his promise.

So... why isn't he trying very hard? He clearly has no problem with killing people. He killed Perry just because she happened to be in Ginn's body. He shot and killed several people before he left the ship. He put a bomb on Park's back, another one in the rocks to try to kill Rush, and another one that almost killed James and her team. But when it comes to shooting people, he seems to not understand that it's his survival he's fighting for.

Why isn't he trying that hard? Because the goal wasn't to kill them all but to ensure that one of them would kill him, preferably off the ship, where there was a good chance he would be saved and then he'd be back in the same boat he was in. There were a lot of opportunities for Simeon to kill people and he didn't. His attacks were aimed at hindering the teams, not killing them, so that in the end, he faced one man who he was pretty certain would kill him. He wanted a soldier's death instead of a traitor's. He wasn't fighting for his survival because survival was never the plan. In 'real life' we'd call it 'suicide by cop'.

garhkal
November 23rd, 2010, 01:57 AM
Kudos on the Se7en reference.

Personally, as Rush was walking towards Simeon I was thinking: if it were me, I'd try and cut one of his arms off, and beat him to death with that instead of shooting him. Headshot is just too quick & painless.
.

Na.. Shoot him in the other leg, and both arms..