Destiny's mission and the stargates SPOILERS "The Greater Good" onwards

[the-alguroan]

obviously after "the greater good" we learned what destiny's mission is suppose to be, so if its meant to travel the long distance to get close enough to this structure or what ever its meant to do.

now then if we include the stargate what purpose do they have? i mean if u have shuttles on board no need to stargate back and forth to get supplies. so i was thinking as prototypes they lack range and i'm assuming that they can't do intergalactic calls well i guess they might if they got a power upgrade. I believe the stargates are the keys to moving back and forth to destiny or at least a solution to return the crew home. i would assume that some sort of jumper macro (like the one that mckay wrote so that Atlantis and earth wouldn't need the deadlus to go back and forth.) That way insane power amounts wouldn't be needed and the ancients would only need to jump around from galaxy to galaxy until they reached destiny's destination.

with this in mind this would make the structure examination 1st proiety and exploration of galaxies second?
thoughts on this and other idea's u may have.

[morbosfist]

The Stargates are a far more efficient means of gathering supplies. They take no time to get from the planet to the ship, don't even need to be in orbit of the planet, and can transport more supplies over the same period than a shuttle.

[Nataku27]

These kind of stargates may be able to gather informations about the universe structure, we don't really know at that point.

[Brian N]

They also indicate which planets Destiny is near to and whether they are safe.

[caribsci]

HI all.I was thinking the same thing about using the gates to get home.When Scott and Eli were ''lost'' all they did was jump to different gates until they found Destiny.It may take a year or so but that's better than risking finding a power source.

[garhkal]

Plus they also can use stargates to get to more than 1 planet at a time.

[morbosfist]

HI all.I was thinking the same thing about using the gates to get home.When Scott and Eli were ''lost'' all they did was jump to different gates until they found Destiny.It may take a year or so but that's better than risking finding a power source.

That wouldn't work all the way back. It can't dial across a galaxy. There's not even a guarantee that it'll be possible to dial along the chain, as shown in "Aftermath".

[ColdZero]

The psychological affect of just being able to get off the ship shouldn't be missed either. Its possible that dialing Destiny isn't something even the ancients could do regularly, so crew rotations might have not been an option.

[Quadhelix]

The Stargates are a far more efficient means of gathering supplies. They take no time to get from the planet to the ship, don't even need to be in orbit of the planet, and can transport more supplies over the same period than a shuttle.

The benefits of using Stargates have to be weighed against the costs. If they had decided not to use Stargates, the Ancients could have made the shuttles a bit bigger and attached a few more of them to the Destiny. They probably could have equipped Destiny (and maybe the shuttles) with Ring Transporters. Alternatively, they could have equipped Destiny with a single FTL-equipped "Stargate Shuttle" that could go to planets in Destiny's stead.

However, as things stand, the Ancients decided to launch a fleet of 'Gate-seeding ships in advance of Destiny. This is a considerable investment of resources to allow the resupply of a ship that, for the most part, shouldn't need resupply (it has a hydroponics facility, water recycling, etc.).

[morbosfist]

The benefits of using Stargates have to be weighed against the costs. If they had decided not to use Stargates, the Ancients could have made the shuttles a bit bigger and attached a few more of them to the Destiny. They probably could have equipped Destiny (and maybe the shuttles) with Ring Transporters. Alternatively, they could have equipped Destiny with a single FTL-equipped "Stargate Shuttle" that could go to planets in Destiny's stead.

If they hadn't used the Stargates, then it would necessitate an entire redesign of Destiny do do what you suggest. Furthermore, no matter how big or how fast your shuttle is, it will never be as fast or as convenient as a Stargate, plain and simple. They're the Ancients and they had an entire galaxy to strip mine for materials. Efficiency is not something they were all that big on.

However, as things stand, the Ancients decided to launch a fleet of 'Gate-seeding ships in advance of Destiny. This is a considerable investment of resources to allow the resupply of a ship that, for the most part, shouldn't need resupply (it has a hydroponics facility, water recycling, etc.).

Plants tend to die if left unattended for millions of years. You'd need to bring the seeds and such. Also food supplies while you wait for it to grow, and replacement water supplies (they do run out, it isn't limitless). Gates provide a way to get new food, new water, more variety, etc.

[Quadhelix]

If they hadn't used the Stargates, then it would necessitate an entire redesign of Destiny do do what you suggest.

A) That wouldn't matter because we're talking about the sort of thing that would come in at the design stage anyway.

B) I fail to see how it would require a complete redesign to make the shuttles bigger and add a few more docking spaces.

Furthermore, no matter how big or how fast your shuttle is, it will never be as fast or as convenient as a Stargate, plain and simple.

Which is irrelevant, because you also have to consider the issue of constructing the seeder ships. Yes, a Stargate is more convenient than a shuttle, but a group of shuttles is far easier to build than a fleet of 'Gate-seeding ships.

They're the Ancients and they had an entire galaxy to strip mine for materials. Efficiency is not something they were all that big on.

Which sets aside the fact that the time that they spent building and launching the Seeder-ships was time that they either weren't building Destiny or were leaving her in dry dock.

Moreover, we have no idea exactly how many Seeder-ships were launched, nor how much of a head start they had.

Plants tend to die if left unattended for millions of years. You'd need to bring the seeds and such. Also food supplies while you wait for it to grow, and replacement water supplies (they do run out, it isn't limitless). Gates provide a way to get new food, new water, more variety, etc.

Yes, you have to bring seeds and supplies for while the plants grow. However, the Ancients could have at least been sure that they supplies that they brought and the food that they grew for themselves isn't toxic, doesn't expose them to alien pathogens, etc.

[morbosfist]

A) That wouldn't matter because we're talking about the sort of thing that would come in at the design stage anyway.

B) I fail to see how it would require a complete redesign to make the shuttles bigger and add a few more docking spaces.

Larger shuttles require larger landing pads, which require larger airlocks, more docking clamps, etc depending on the redesign. This means more are of the ship must be flat to accommodate them, which means less room for other stuff unless the design changes.

Which is irrelevant, because you also have to consider the issue of constructing the seeder ships. Yes, a Stargate is more convenient than a shuttle, but a group of shuttles is far easier to build than a fleet of 'Gate-seeding ships.

It's perfectly relevant. Do you waste a lot of effort immediately so you don't have to expend much effort later, or make very little effort for a lot more work later? Besides, the seeder ships are also there to map out Destiny's course.

Which sets aside the fact that the time that they spent building and launching the Seeder-ships was time that they either weren't building Destiny or were leaving her in dry dock.

Moreover, we have no idea exactly how many Seeder-ships were launched, nor how much of a head start they had.

We know they're far enough ahead that the crew would never catch them in their lifetime. The seeder ships are smaller than Destiny, and probably didn't take as long to construct.

Yes, you have to bring seeds and supplies for while the plants grow. However, the Ancients could have at least been sure that they supplies that they brought and the food that they grew for themselves isn't toxic, doesn't expose them to alien pathogens, etc.

Which is why they have all that handy medical technology, so anything new they picked up could be tested. If only the current crew knew how it worked.

[Crazy Tom]

I'd also point out that from everything we've seen so far, it seems FTL is physically incapable of functioning near a gravity field, the non-asymptotically flat nature of space time near heavy bodies seems to cause it to slow and then crash.

Furthermore, gates are more flexible and can be used in the future for exploration, I think the shuttles were included as contingencies.

[Quadhelix]

Larger shuttles require larger landing pads, which require larger airlocks, more docking clamps, etc depending on the redesign. This means more are of the ship must be flat to accommodate them, which means less room for other stuff unless the design changes.

You can see here that the the area around the forward shuttle is already fairly flat as is. The landing site for the damaged shuttle (from "Air") could easily be expanded by enlarging the lower deck, and the shuttle behind it could be easily be placed on the large, flat area of the "wing." What you are talking about is modification, not redesign.


Not that any of this is relevant, of course, given that these are the sorts of design decisions that they would have made while the Destiny was still lines on a paper/screen, and thus "redesign" would consist of exactly that: writing up another design.

It's perfectly relevant. Do you waste a lot of effort immediately so you don't have to expend much effort later, or make very little effort for a lot more work later?

It is still a trade-off: a lot of effort now to save some effort later.

Stargates may be more convenient than shuttles, but you have failed to show that they are sufficiently more convenient to justify not only the construction of a fleet of Gate-seeders, but also the delay in Destiny's launch while those seeders are built, launched, and begin their own mission.

Besides, the seeder ships are also there to map out Destiny's course.

Why does Destiny need a fleet of other ships to map out its course for it? Ancient sensors of the time were obviously good enough to pick out useful planets from among hundreds of star systems (otherwise the 'Gate-seeders wouldn't have worked). This means that, in terms of stars and other navigational hazards, Destiny's sensors alone should be more than adequate.

We know they're far enough ahead that the crew would never catch them in their lifetime.

"Awakening"

In any case, I fail to see how this would support you position.

The seeder ships are smaller than Destiny, and probably didn't take as long to construct.

One wouldn't take as long to construct. A fleet, on the other hand, would almost certainly take longer - perhaps many times longer depending on how large the fleet is.

Which is why they have all that handy medical technology, so anything new they picked up could be tested. If only the current crew knew how it worked.

Which doesn't help them when the entire batch of supplies that they just collected has to be thrown out because it used the wrong amino acids. And it helps them only a little when half the crew is laid up in the infirmary due to some virulent bacterium they picked up on a food run.

In other words, why waste the time looking for planets with non-toxic food when you could grow your own with no need of shuttles, seed ships, or specialized medical equipment?

I'd also point out that from everything we've seen so far, it seems FTL is physically incapable of functioning near a gravity field, the non-asymptotically flat nature of space time near heavy bodies seems to cause it to slow and then crash.

There is, to my knowledge, one example of that ("Faith").

There is also the counter example of Destiny leaving FTL in close proximity to a Sun-like star in "Earth."

Furthermore, gates are more flexible and can be used in the future for exploration, I think the shuttles were included as contingencies.

Except that:

A) The Ancients don't really seem to be explorers. The only time that we have seen them exploring, besides Destiny, is when they were forced to relocate to a new home after they old one was invaded, infected, etc. With the speed of their drive systems (especially Atlantis era), they could have probably mapped out most of the Virgo Supercluster if they had really been interested in exploring.

B) Even considering their potential use in exploring, it still isn't enough to justify a fleet of 'Gate-seeding ships.

[the-alguroan]

lol, gateworld u never cease to amuse.