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GateWorld
April 26th, 2004, 03:04 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s1/116.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/graphics/116.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#666666">DISCUSS ...</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4 COLOR="#006699"><B>ENIGMA</B></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 116</FONT>
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The SG-1 team rescues a group of advanced humans from a planet near destruction, and must find a new home for the refugees before the Pentagon gets their hands on them.

<B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s1/116.shtml">Visit the Episode Guide >></A></B></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

SeaBee
June 19th, 2004, 07:51 AM
The Tolen really began to get on my nerves, after a while. Not my favourite ep. of the season.

bcmilco
June 19th, 2004, 12:17 PM
It was, however, nice to finally meet a race that was actually more advanced then us, and wasn't the Goa'uld ;) too bad they weren't willing to help fight :rolleyes:

KorbenDirewolf
June 20th, 2004, 06:45 PM
Just for a couple examples of known advanced races from before this episode. Don't the Nox count? Or the Oannes?

bcmilco
June 20th, 2004, 07:37 PM
Just for a couple examples of known advanced races from before this episode. Don't the Nox count? Or the Oannes?

No they don't :p

You're right we did meet other advanced peoples. It's just that for me, the Tollans are the first race that we meet that actually "feels" advanced.

Plus I've always thought of the Nox as more biological then technelogical, though I know they do have technology, they don't seem to care about it or why the heck would you live in a hut with no amenities? :eek: :p (They wouldn't share either ;))

The Oannes -- those were Nem's people right? -- Did he say were his people were? We only ever saw him. I guess he just struck me as a loner, not so much as a people.

OR my brain wasn't working and I just forgot about them :p

Newbie
June 20th, 2004, 09:25 PM
i was actually really confused why Tollans left a team of ppl....to saty on the planet...and watch...

bcmilco
June 20th, 2004, 10:23 PM
IIRC they were left behind to disable the gate so that noone would go there by mistake.

Selmak
July 10th, 2004, 07:53 PM
The introduction of the Tollen, Nirim, and the Cat.

aAnubiSs
July 11th, 2004, 08:03 AM
They were supposed to destroy the gate.

I liked both Narrim and Omac(Omoc)

KorbenDirewolf
July 11th, 2004, 12:17 PM
No they don't :p



Alright, just checking. ;)

Selmak
July 15th, 2004, 05:19 PM
They were supposed to destroy the gate.
How? It seems like the Ancients made the gates un-blow-up-able. They survived a direct meteor hit and a crashing ship.

Bagpuss
July 19th, 2004, 05:09 AM
I thought the Tollan were a little uptight about sharing their tech,but I understood their reluctance, once Narim explained the real reasons.
Nice byplay between Omoc and Daniel,and the NID/Maybourne being thwarted by the Nox. Go Lya ! :D

aAnubiSs
July 19th, 2004, 05:20 AM
How? It seems like the Ancients made the gates un-blow-up-able. They survived a direct meteor hit and a crashing ship.

Ok then, disable it, phaseshift it or whatever ;)

Bagpuss
July 19th, 2004, 05:51 AM
Maybe the volcano buried the Gate anyway ?
That'd be pretty permanent,IMO !
*Sigh* Another one for my rewatch list....

Selmak
July 19th, 2004, 09:09 PM
It would be easier to put a coverstone over it.

Selmak
July 26th, 2004, 05:56 PM
Just for a couple examples of known advanced races from before this episode. Don't the Nox count? Or the Oannes?
We got to see the Nox floating city but nothing more... It has more of an impact when the advanced society is human.

DeLancey
August 1st, 2004, 04:56 AM
One of my favourite episodes from that season introducing one of my favourite races.
I got a buzz seeing a race of humans that were so advanced. Damn dark ages.

Elwe Singollo
August 2nd, 2004, 01:18 AM
So would Earth-lings be your favorite race if the damned dark age didnt happen? Haha...

VirtualCLD
August 3rd, 2004, 07:03 AM
Well, we would be more advanced anyway. OTOH, it's not like all technilogical advances came to a screetching halt durring that time, contrary to popular belief. Slow, but not that much slower than before.

Major Fischer
August 16th, 2004, 10:28 PM
I liked this episode mostly for Carter/Narim interactions. The cat best of all, they were finally starting to give Carter some humanity later in season 1. I find her very harsh in many of the early episodes... and very... well, unSam-like as we came to know her.

Wyrminarrd
August 16th, 2004, 10:33 PM
Hate to admit it but I´m the type who rooted for the pentagon. Getting the Tolen technology for earth would easily justify holding them against their will IMO.

Major Fischer
August 16th, 2004, 10:59 PM
What Maybourne proposed is not entirely unreasonable in the context of American history. The most obvious example were the German V2 rocket scientists that were so called 'prisoners of peace' well into the 1950s. Treated very well, and given all the resources they could want, but they certainly weren't free to go home.

It did get us to the moon, so it's kinda hard to argue with it.

Wyrminarrd
August 16th, 2004, 11:06 PM
And here we are talking about something much more important then going to the moon. To protect the earth and humanity I´d say that a lot is forgivable and justifiable .

This is one of my few beef´s with SG-1, they tend to let emotions and "doing the right thing" get in the way of fulfilling their primary mission which is to protect earth.

Replicarter
September 4th, 2004, 08:05 AM
There techno is cool, they should have shot them all and copied there stuff.

KorbenDirewolf
September 8th, 2004, 07:48 PM
Well since none of the Earth people could even figure out what the devices were for, killing them wouldn't have been really helpful.

Lord Zedd
September 19th, 2004, 07:05 AM
And here we are talking about something much more important then going to the moon. To protect the earth and humanity I´d say that a lot is forgivable and justifiable .

This is one of my few beef´s with SG-1, they tend to let emotions and "doing the right thing" get in the way of fulfilling their primary mission which is to protect earth.
SPOILER


I know but they have now something to protect the Earth X302 X303 and the ancients outpost of course

Spiderman
September 19th, 2004, 08:20 AM
SPOILER


I know but they have now something to protect the Earth X302 X303 and the ancients outpost of course
And zats,and staffweapons and of course the stargate (it can be used as a weapon,look what Anubis did in redemption)

zats
October 29th, 2004, 06:59 PM
I liked both Narrim and Omac(Omoc)

I dunno if you've seen the third Harry Potter movie, but Omoc reminds me of Peter Pettigrew (you know, the one that was the rat). Something about Omoc just looks...rattish. It bugs me!

zats
October 29th, 2004, 07:06 PM
This is one of my few beef´s with SG-1, they tend to let emotions and "doing the right thing" get in the way of fulfilling their primary mission which is to protect earth.

My dear Wyrminarrd, this may be excellent TV, but it is TV nevertheless. Therefore, acting on emotions and "doing the right thing" and saving the world can automatically go hand in hand. And of course, I, being the poor naive soul I am, like to pretend that one CAN in fact do the right thing, act on emotions, and still save the world.

Hey, you never know. Besides, they're under Hammond's command. I think he trusts them to work things out in the end. It might not be realistic, but that's why we [heart] ole Hammond of Texas with the Crown of Marble.

WraithWarrior
November 15th, 2004, 03:27 AM
Not my fave episode but what the Nox girl did at the end with the gate was pretty impressive and when she made them all invisible. I hated Maybourne (no offense to the actor) and I also disliked the Tollans but they did have good technology.

Lord Zedd
November 16th, 2004, 12:08 PM
I saw this episode yestarday.It was a very long time that I saw this. I didn't remember Omoc.He is so silent but cool and than the cat Shrodinger :D

zats
November 21st, 2004, 08:01 PM
Not my fave episode but what the Nox girl did at the end with the gate was pretty impressive and when she made them all invisible. I hated Maybourne (no offense to the actor) and I also disliked the Tollans but they did have good technology.

Of course you hated Maybourne. You're supposed to!

Erik Pasternak
November 21st, 2004, 08:10 PM
Of course you hated Maybourne. You're supposed to!
Actually, you're supposed to love to hate him ;)

zats
November 22nd, 2004, 01:59 PM
Actually, you're supposed to love to hate him ;)
Ha. Ha. Ha.

Cpn. Chris(tine) Bowman
November 29th, 2004, 05:43 PM
Ha. Ha. Ha.

I agree, I love Maybourne.

I only have one thing to add, aside that I love this episode: Damn Daniel! Why is he the only one to ever walk in on Sam smooching someone? It should have been Jack walking in there. So he could remember that scene later and tease Sam about it and be all jealous at the same time :D Darn, Daniel always ruins my shippy needs.

zats
December 3rd, 2004, 07:32 PM
I only have one thing to add, aside that I love this episode: Damn Daniel! Why is he the only one to ever walk in on Sam smooching someone? It should have been Jack walking in there. So he could remember that scene later and tease Sam about it and be all jealous at the same time :D Darn, Daniel always ruins my shippy needs.

I know!! I was crushed!!!! TPTB had such an excellent opportunity and they let it slip away...sigh. Grrr.

ShimmeringStar
January 1st, 2005, 02:15 PM
Omoc seemed like such a jerk at the beginning of the episode, though later you understood more of his reasons for his actions and it helped somewhat that his attitude towards the Taur’i softened a bit….

Favorite line - Hammond to Maybourne: “That wasn’t an invitation. It was an order, Colonel.” :D

Loved how the SGC maneuvered around Maybourne at the end… Daniel in the gateroom holding his hand up to his ear, pretending not to hear Maybourne's orders and threats.

And of course, at the end, to hear the line again: “The very young do not always do as they're told.” :)

SmartFox
March 3rd, 2005, 12:16 PM
I loved this ep and the Tollan. Its good to see some more advanced peoples that our actually humans. They were just like us too: didn't want to share their technology or any other information with us. If you think about it America does that to the rest of the world. Good ark with the Tollan later.

PugGate
March 9th, 2005, 08:08 PM
Overall I thought this was a pretty good episode. Too bad Jack didn't have a chance to beat Maybourne up.

kelmah
April 14th, 2005, 12:54 PM
I like all the eps w/ the Tollans, and you gotta love the cat

kelmah
April 14th, 2005, 01:01 PM
Too bad Jack didn't have a chance to beat Maybourne up.

lol

yeah, still a good ep though

zats
June 29th, 2005, 05:44 PM
Ah, well. He got his chance in Paradise Lost. :)

Atteria
June 29th, 2005, 06:09 PM
I loved this ep and the Tollan. Its good to see some more advanced peoples that our actually humans. They were just like us too: didn't want to share their technology or any other information with us. If you think about it America does that to the rest of the world. Good ark with the Tollan later.

America doesn't share her technology with the rest of the world? And what world are you on? Maybe America doesn't share military secrets (we really don't have too, as they are readily stolen), but as for other technology, we sell, sell and then sell some more.

I liked this episode so much, because it introduced us to the Tollan people, who, at first seemed so advanced and egotistical, but who, in the end, were trying only to find a way to survive, without causing anymore harm than they already had.

And it did provide a wonderfiul ark for later episodes about the Tollan, which showed us, that contrary to what they wanted us to believe and what they themselves wanted to believe, they were in fact, no better than we were. When push came to shove, they tried to sell us out. Period. So much for advanced human culture.

(Sorry for my negative slant, I'm not in a very positive mood at the moment, so I shall bid thee all a good eve.)

Blackduck
July 22nd, 2005, 06:57 AM
America doesn't share her technology with the rest of the world? And what world are you on? Maybe America doesn't share military secrets (we really don't have too, as they are readily stolen), but as for other technology, we sell, sell and then sell some more.


America dosn't seems to like other countries getting nuclear weapon.

Heru'urs_first_prime
August 2nd, 2005, 02:13 AM
America dosn't seems to like other countries getting nuclear weapon.

hmmm i wonder why *says heru'urs first prime very sacasticly*

.:Lemon:.
August 24th, 2005, 08:25 AM
The Tollan kind of got on my nerves in this episode. Probably one of my least favourite races. Although Narim was okay. The episode was still quite good though

Stricken
September 8th, 2005, 02:00 AM
okay nothing special, wont watch it again and again.

walter_MacChevron
September 12th, 2005, 09:51 PM
Nice that they showed a different POV of the mountain/SGC in this eppy

andrewag
December 13th, 2005, 03:46 AM
The Tollan were horrible to the person from the land of the light. I felt sorry for him after the Tollan spokespersons harsh words.

someonerandom
December 28th, 2005, 04:13 AM
the comment serves the folks of the land of light right .. those folks were ignorant and hard to convince as well.. and their technology was pretty primitive.. go figure.. *shrugs*

-p

su27k
January 7th, 2006, 07:54 AM
This episode is nice, I love the part where SG-1 helps the Tollans to escape and Maybourne is just helpless.

And the Tollans are not that bad, at least they didn't try to use their superior technology and morality to dictate how we run our planet, unlike certain nation(s) on this earth who shall remain unnamed. So I guess they're more advanced than we're after all.

Hira
February 20th, 2006, 03:35 PM
i liked this eppy but i didn;t like the Tollans "leader". i thought that he was stuck up and rude. but all in all i thought it was a good eppy.

Pharaoh Atem
March 26th, 2006, 04:18 PM
tollen became good allies after this espiode to bad there dead now

captain jake
May 3rd, 2006, 03:55 PM
tollen became good allies after this espiode to bad there dead now

No offense just a heads up. You might want to put a spoiler box in that comment not every body knows about that yet.

Sheppard
July 19th, 2006, 09:34 PM
Ah, well. He got his chance in Paradise Lost. :)

he sure did lol

Robert Rogers
July 30th, 2006, 04:35 PM
he sure did lol

I'm just starting to watch sg1 on dvd. No biggie.

I liked this episode for lots of reasons. They had the Tollans wearing shiny silver space suits(as all advanced civilizations do of course), they had the annoying military on a power trip jerk who wants to inprison the tollans and steal their technology, and they had a little love interest for Sam. I also came away with a good line, something like "what your brain doesn't know, your heart fills in".

Gonna have to commit that to memory so I can use it later.

Integrabyte
December 29th, 2007, 09:40 AM
One of my favourite episodes. I simply don't get enough. Its the NOX, I tell ye :P

bob rulz
February 25th, 2008, 08:20 AM
One of my favourite episodes. I simply don't get enough. Its the NOX, I tell ye :P

I agree. The Nox were so underused throughout the show.

And I'm surprised there's actually so many people who don't like the Tollan. The Tollan rock!

Colonel Crawford
March 1st, 2008, 08:02 PM
I hated this one, the Tollan are annoying, especially Narim. The only thing I liked in this one was Maybourne's introduction, he has got to be one of my favorite characters in Stargate. Its too bad he left the airforce he could have had more episodes as a bad guy then switched over. He was the classic good guy(in that he was looking out for the interests of Earth and its defence)/bad guy(in that he will do anything to achieve his goals)

garhkal
March 3rd, 2008, 03:27 PM
I hated this one, the Tollan are annoying, especially Narim.

Don't you mean Olmak. Narim was the one Carter got to form a bond with..

Hart
April 13th, 2008, 03:43 PM
There was no compelling reason to protect the Earth from the Tollan. They had been cleared by the docs and, more importantly, they wanted to leave Earth! As for the Goa'uld threat, it'd be nice for some help from them, but it's not surprising, really. When does the group in power feel compelled to toss off its technology for one side in a war without any compelling reason to believe in their righteousness, especially considering the fact that despite what was told them, we were, in fact, imprisoning them (at least we thought we were) and flashing our weaponry at them every chance we got?

The Tollans were right about sharing their technology with us. Everyone knows that we'd use it to bully the rest of the world and it coud easily get into multiple hands and consequently, could lead to planetary destruction just like what had already happened to the Tollans. Forget the Goa'uld. We'd take care of destroying Earth ourselves. The Tollan were solid about the decision not to share.

Now, they could have dropped some of the attitude, particularly with Tuplo who was extending to them a very nice invitation. But upon reflection, it occurred to me that though the Tollan may have been more technologically advanced than us, there may have also been consequences to this. Their emotional capacity seemed different to ours.

I believe this was reflected in Omac's seemingly bitter and "obstinate" attitude. I'm not so sure he meant it personally. I thought the Tollan were, perhaps, less emotional than humans. Maybe they think that's better; or, maybe they've lost something and wish they still had it.

I say all of this because of the weird emotion recorder that Narim gave Sam. What's up with that? He couldn't communicate with her directly how he felt ... he had to give her some silly device. I'm sure that's normal in their world (though Narim seemed frustrated with not being able to communicate more successfully with Sam), but it's pretty freaky in ours. Possibly an indication of a trade off that may ultimately come with advances in other areas like increased technology.

Would we give up our capacity to communicate love or to have empathy in order to be able to travel to other worlds or record emotions?

As is typical with about every episode of Stargate, there was some inexcusable retardation. Number one: that such an advanced race would leave behind ten or twenty people for the dubious reason of burying the stargate. How's about burying it with your technology in about two hours and then getting the heck outta Dodge before Vesuvius pops its cap? Coming up with a legitimate explanation for why those select few were the only ones left would not have been that difficult.

Number two: the Tollan's clothing and gadget designs were so cliche and so stupid. Why, of why, must so many alien races or technologically advanced peoples wear silly metallic uniforms that are begging to show off camel toes and stuff? And considering their technology, would they really wear such bulky, plasticky boxes all up and down their arms? They can walk through walls and send a messsage within a few hours to the Nox's planet which is probably millions, if not billions of light years away, but they can't explore the concept of miniaturization of their Blackberries and what not?

ijffdrie
April 23rd, 2008, 09:26 AM
erm, pegasus is still only millions of light years away, the nox planet was pretty close, a hundred at max

HelloVelo
May 31st, 2008, 09:52 PM
Did anyone else catch Daniel's "whoops" when he walked in on Sam and Narim. Hilarious.

Rating: 9/10

Full Review: http://stargatesummer.blogspot.com/2008/06/enigma.html

me_urgo
June 13th, 2008, 12:30 PM
I just have to say:
1. maybe the "bulky, plasticky boxes all up and down their arms" suits were protecting them from the effects of the erruption of the volcano or something;
2. maybe there really was a ship on the way to rescue them;
3. because I'm such a critic I just have to mention this goof: when Daniel gave his hand to Omac so that they could go through the wall, he was standing on Omac's left; but then, before they went through the wall, Daniel was standing on Omac's right (it just bugged me and had to say it);
4. really liked this episode because:
a) it introduces a new race of people, the Tollans (though they don't want to share anything with us, I can understand their reasons);
b) Omac was a true leader, carring for his people's safety (wish we could've seen some more of him);
those Goa'uld *******s just had to kill him
c) it introduces Colonel Harry Maybourne, who is one of my favorite recurrent characters (he's just asking to be crossed in this episode);
d) we get to see Lya again (the Nox are such a formidable race);
e) we see some more of Sam's feminine side

L E E
June 24th, 2008, 05:44 AM
The Tollans are not so great because:

1. They can walk through walls and make long distance calls to other planets but they don't have the technology to protect themselves from the volcanoes? I mean, yeah so they explained why their planet is ruined. But surely they would have had enough time to build some kind of protective gears while evacuating, right? right? right?

2. Tollans have ships but apparently slow. It was mentioned that it would take too long (lifetime?) to be able to travel from Earth to their new planet. Too bad the Enterprise is not around.

3. Tollans don't know that the 8th chevron is for intergalactic travel. It was mentioned that they can't reach their new planet via the stargate.

4. Tollan wear sucks. SG-1 has got them beat in style, IMO.

5. Tollan has a very smug, arrogant and ungrateful leader. For crying out loud! SG1 saved their lives and not even a thank you? I can understand their wariness regarding technology but they should at least show some gratitude because people who didn't know them saved their highly advanced asses. I feel that SGC should have returned them where they found them.

Why is the title of this ep Enigma? What is the enigma? The Tollans or their technology?

captain jake
June 25th, 2008, 05:02 PM
The Tollans are not so great because:

1. There can walk through walls and make long distance calls to other planets but they don't have the technology to protect themselves from the volcanoes? I mean, yeah so they explained why their planet is ruined. But surely they would have had enough time to build some kind of protective gears while evacuating, right? right? right?

2. Tollans have ships but apparently slow. It was mentioned that it would take too long (lifetime?) to be able to travel from Earth to their new planet. Too bad the Enterprise is not around.

3. Tollans don't know that the 8th chevron is for intergalactic travel. It was mentioned that they can't reach their new planet via the stargate.

4. Tollan wear sucks. SG-1 has got them beat in style, IMO.

5. Tollan has a very smug, arrogant and ungrateful leader. For crying out loud! SG1 saved their lives and not even a thank you? I can understand their wariness regarding technology but they should at least show some gratitude because people who didn't know them saved their highly advanced asses. I feel that SGC should have returned them where they found them.

Why is the title of this ep Enigma? What is the enigma? The Tollans or their technology?

First - Their planet was knocked off course everything was going haywire, they did hold off the destruction for some time as far as I know and it would seem that they had been evacuated for quite some time. It was just that last team that got caught up before they could disable the gate and a slight scheduling error with their transport.

Second - The Tollans came from earth which means they have had no more than 10,000 years to evolve. We received our inter-planetary travel ships from the Asgard and the Goa'uld two cultures who had been around for a long long long time.

Third - How do you know they didn't know that? I believe they didn't know that their kind had built a Stargate on their new planet. So when they said that it was outside the gate network, they were simply saying that there was no Stargate on that planet. They weren't saying that it was outside the galaxy, they couldn't go through the Stargate to a place where there was no gate at that time.

Fourth - There is no accounting for taste.

Fifth - High Chancellor Travell follows the ruling of the Curia (Except for when the Goa'uld threaten their planet, which would make any race do stupid things.) As for Omac he was extremely defensive of his people, which by the way he had reason to be. After all we were about to imprison his entire team.

Finally we get to your question about the title. Perhaps it is SG-1's actions or Narim's actions. However personally I believe it is that we dialed that planet at that moment in time and met a new ally called the Tollan, a true enigma.

pritnep
July 28th, 2008, 08:19 PM
Did anyone else catch Daniel's "whoops" when he walked in on Sam and Narim. Hilarious.

:daniel: Classic Daniel funny scene there.

I liked this episode because it was the beginning of the story arc involving a new more powerful race then ourselves - the Tollan. In Stargate terms (at least at this point) being aware of the Goa'uld but not being afraid/bothered or an enemy of them is pretty amazing. Means that their technology could rival if not beat the Goa'uld.

I'm in fully agree with captain jake, Omac was only protecting both the Tollans and SGC from themselves - giving people technology before they are ready to understand it and use it properly (as the destroy of their planets destruction went) can be deadly.

It's not saying that they won't share their technology eventually just they will be limited on what they share (and the different things it can be used for) and that they will only do it when they think we are ready.

First episode of Colonel Maybourne and more of an introduction about the NID, again the begins of a long association and story arc.

All in all a good episode, and good to see The Nox and the people from the planet of the light again. :)

ValaDee
August 6th, 2008, 09:48 PM
First - Their planet was knocked off course everything was going haywire, they did hold off the destruction for some time as far as I know and it would seem that they had been evacuated for quite some time. It was just that last team that got caught up before they could disable the gate and a slight scheduling error with their transport.

Second - The Tollans came from earth which means they have had no more than 10,000 years to evolve. We received our inter-planetary travel ships from the Asgard and the Goa'uld two cultures who had been around for a long long long time.

Third - How do you know they didn't know that? I believe they didn't know that their kind had built a Stargate on their new planet. So when they said that it was outside the gate network, they were simply saying that there was no Stargate on that planet. They weren't saying that it was outside the galaxy, they couldn't go through the Stargate to a place where there was no gate at that time.

Fourth - There is no accounting for taste.

Fifth - High Chancellor Travell follows the ruling of the Curia (Except for when the Goa'uld threaten their planet, which would make any race do stupid things.) As for Omac he was extremely defensive of his people, which by the way he had reason to be. After all we were about to imprison his entire team.

Finally we get to your question about the title. Perhaps it is SG-1's actions or Narim's actions. However personally I believe it is that we dialed that planet at that moment in time and met a new ally called the Tollan, a true enigma.


Your last sentence is so very true....:)

Pic
August 16th, 2008, 12:07 PM
OK, well.. these people have 70's-style space suits and chunky bracelets. They're clearly advanced.

OK, I suppose I should out myself right here and now. If I were to claim to be a shipper, I'd Sam/Jack all the way. So right off the bat, Narim works my nerves. And Omoc is something that's akin to a donkey but probably gets mod'd here.

Apparently you can determine how polite a society will be based on the level of it's technology. Just walk around and observe people using their cell phones if you don't believe me. Narim said thank you when he and Sam walked to the surface, but that's because he was hitting on Sam.
Is it an angel? an eagle? a scientist? It's Carter-the-amazing! I'm going to give her a chunky emo!braclet and teach her about our kissing customs!
*bleh
And he knows French? Just say you don't know how to make a bed - accoutements? (sp?) whatever, dude.

I can see the point of not sharing technology. Maybourne and his ilk proved Omoc had a point. It's the condescending nature of that refusal which rubbed me the wrong way.

Yay for the Nox! I laughed out loud when the gate was activated and Hammond comes running down the spiral stair thing followed closely by Maybourne (and I mean CLOSELY). If Maybourne got any closer, he'd be giving the General a colonoscopy!

But, all's well that ends well. Maybourne is mad and SG1 is happy (especially since Narim is gone).

BeccaBeez
September 22nd, 2008, 01:00 AM
Daniel's "Whoops" - LOL :D

The Tollan were an interesting race, but I would consider them one of our most... frustrating 'allies'.

Lisbet
September 23rd, 2008, 11:40 AM
The Tollans were right about sharing their technology with us. Everyone knows that we'd use it to bully the rest of the world and it coud easily get into multiple hands and consequently, could lead to planetary destruction just like what had already happened to the Tollans. Forget the Goa'uld. We'd take care of destroying Earth ourselves. The Tollan were solid about the decision not to share.

I thought exactly the same, if Earth was given a new type of weapon (or a technology of weapon-potential) we'd blow ourselves up.

Although, in the vast reaches of the universe where you have your galaxies, black holes, planetary systems and other assorted junk, Earth blowing up will be a tiny little atom on the edge of a little dust particle going 'pif'. I doubt anyone would notice on the grand scale of things. ;)

Anyway, I wholeheartedly agreed with the Tollans and understood Omoc. As rude as he was with Tuplo, he had a point. The others just didn't get it. I'm a huge Star Trek fan and grew up watching TNG, so not sharing technology with inferior races reminds me of the Prime Directive. Less evolved civilizations should not get their hands on technology they're not ready to use, because they would most likely use it to destroy themselves.

I saw a documentary on the Hiroshima bombing a while ago and it seemed like they were more interested to test this device on humans than to use it as a political means to end the war. If the Tollans had given Earth a device akin to a weapon of mass destruction, like someone said, it would be pointed at Kremlin or the Middle East, and it most likely would've been used at the flimsiest excuse. There are about 245 countries in the world, most of which can't even say hello to each other.

In the later episodes I thought the Tollans could've just pointed one ion cannon at the Stargate and fired through it, SGC could have just moved the gate. That way they could've had Earth the defence they needed (or 1/38th of it) while keeping Tollan technology safely on Tollana. Plus I kind of like the idea of anyone visiting Tollana will be greeted with the barrel of a big, honkin' ion cannon. :D

I didn't think the Tollans were arrogant in calling us primitive, I found it accurate. Humans have striped tooth paste and nuclear weapons and we think we're the cleverest people anywhere, ever. I thought it was more arrogant for us to think we were on the Tollans' level.

And I think Narim is the sweetest. :p

Anda
September 23rd, 2008, 12:07 PM
I tink the Tollans are a little pretentios for someone in theire position.

Ksya
October 11th, 2008, 02:45 PM
I dont really like this episode. True, it is kind of funny, and I liked the cat, and Daniel has horrible timing, but grr....when Narim gave Sam the device and they kissed I literally threw my water bottle at the screen and shouted, "NO! JACK IS SAM'S MAN!" LOL!

ZOMG!b_cs
October 21st, 2008, 07:09 AM
bleh

The Tollans are condescending boobs. OK, I think they've got a point with Maybourne running around like he does, but they're still a pack of annoying people.

Narim worked my nerves.

Daniel was awesome, at least there's some redeeming value to pull out of this ep. If the Tollan had not been revisited in later episodes (as many people the team encounters are not) this would have been one of the most wasted episodes, IMO. The idea that a group of humans exceeded our technological advances is great, but I disliked the way they told that story.

Mortonpixie
October 22nd, 2008, 09:28 AM
I totally like Narim and think that he is sweet. I love the kiss and think that relationship and the fact that it can't work is the most redeeming part of this epi. Just me, though.

ZOMG!b_cs
October 26th, 2008, 06:52 AM
I totally like Narim and think that he is sweet. I love the kiss and think that relationship and the fact that it can't work is the most redeeming part of this epi. Just me, though.

Narim wasn't that bad, I suppose. Overall I get the impression the writers didn't know what to do with a female character like Sam in those early years. They tried to tie her to different relationships that didn't really pan out.

RononXSpecialist
November 8th, 2008, 03:42 AM
Aha good ep. I love episodes with the Tollon in them, I totally wish i could walk threw walls lol. That would come in handy..
To bad the Tollon are right we are a primitive society and untill we can come together as a planet we'll never be on their level of technology.

Cello
December 8th, 2008, 09:36 PM
And here we are talking about something much more important then going to the moon. To protect the earth and humanity I´d say that a lot is forgivable and justifiable .

This is one of my few beef´s with SG-1, they tend to let emotions and "doing the right thing" get in the way of fulfilling their primary mission which is to protect earth.
Even if we could ignore the moral considerations, there are two problems with the forcible approach you recommend.

First, how can you be sure the Tollan team couldn't eventually tell their home planet about their treatment at our hands? Remember the communicator Omoc used to signal the Nox? Imagine him alerting the Tollan home planet instead. Now imagine the people there, who are far more technologically advanced than we are, becoming seriously annoyed with us Earthlings. I sure wouldn't want to answer for the consequences.

Second, how would you wrest the secrets away from the Tollans? The team that was rescued may have no more knowledge of physics than Daniel Jackson would. After all, Dr. Jackson is an archeologist, not a physicist. Could he tell the natives on Abydos how to build the nuke that killed Ra? I doubt it. Similarly, a random group of Tollans is unlikely to have any experts in their technology.

For these two reasons, especially the first, what the SG-1 team actually did was probably the wisest thing. It was the morally right thing to do as well, and I am satisfied.

Cello
December 8th, 2008, 09:38 PM
i liked this eppy but i didn;t like the Tollans "leader". i thought that he was stuck up and rude. but all in all i thought it was a good eppy.
Heh, Omoc was so hostile at first, I thought the Tollans might have been working for the Goa'uld.

Cello
December 8th, 2008, 09:46 PM
But upon reflection, it occurred to me that though the Tollan may have been more technologically advanced than us, there may have also been consequences to this. Their emotional capacity seemed different to ours.
I have an idea why the Tollans seem so stunted emotionally: their whole race went through extreme trauma when they lost their world. As Omoc said, their neighboring planet blew itself up, no doubt raining lethal fragments on the Tollans. One asteroid was enough to kill off all the dinosaurs here on Earth; imagine the cataclysm that a million fragments could wreak.

Namir was astonished at seeing a bird, saying that his world (the new Tollan planet) did not have them. Looking back, I think he meant to say that birds, flowers, and many other beautiful things once existed on his former world but are gone forever. I can't imagine the profound sense of loss that he and all the other Tollans must feel. The trauma their whole race went through might explain why most of them seem so cold.

This is my guess from what I have seen of Season One. I'm experiencing all the episodes for the very first time, so I could easily be wrong.

It's been an excellent series so far! :)

Pic
December 11th, 2008, 10:57 AM
I have an idea why the Tollans seem so stunted emotionally: their whole race went through extreme trauma when they lost their world. As Omoc said, their neighboring planet blew itself up, no doubt raining lethal fragments on the Tollans. One asteroid was enough to kill off all the dinosaurs here on Earth; imagine the cataclysm that a million fragments could wreak.

Namir was astonished at seeing a bird, saying that his world (the new Tollan planet) did not have them. Looking back, I think he meant to say that birds, flowers, and many other beautiful things once existed on his former world but are gone forever. I can't imagine the profound sense of loss that he and all the other Tollans must feel. The trauma their whole race went through might explain why most of them seem so cold.

This is my guess from what I have seen of Season One. I'm experiencing all the episodes for the very first time, so I could easily be wrong.

It's been an excellent series so far! :)

I'm glad you're enjoying SG1 - it is an excellent series.

I hadn't thought of the trauma leading to their lack of warmth, that's an interesting opinion. I had always considered them arrogant with a side-dish of a superiority complex. I can imagine that such a large scale loss would harden a people.

P.S. I still think Omac is an ass. ;) :lol:

Cello
December 11th, 2008, 06:13 PM
I'm glad you're enjoying SG1 - it is an excellent series.
Thanks, it's looking good so far. I'm watching one episode a day on the Space Channel (the Canadian equivalent of the Sci Fi channel). Maybe that's going a bit too fast, because I'm hit with another episode before I've fully absorbed the previous one. I feel as if I've been drinking too much! :D

The truth is though, earlier in Season One only Sam Carter kept me coming back.... she is so appealing. But the last few episodes have been strong -- I'm up to "There but for the Grace of God" now -- and I think I'm hooked!


I hadn't thought of the trauma leading to their lack of warmth, that's an interesting opinion. I had always considered them arrogant with a side-dish of a superiority complex. I can imagine that such a large scale loss would harden a people.
Especially if a lot of them died during the tragedy.


P.S. I still think Omac is an ass. ;) :lol:
So do I! :D I still can't understand why he wasn't grateful for the rescue.

Butlersgate
February 23rd, 2009, 09:51 AM
i love that tobin bell was in this episode they should of brought him back

The Stig
April 20th, 2009, 03:49 PM
i find the tolan a tad snobish. An episode i completely forgot about but looking back it was a great change to find a civilisation more advanced than us (not counting nox as they don't do anything)

Zwegan
July 27th, 2009, 06:57 PM
I just started watching the series on DVD, and the thing that jumped out at me in this episode was the continuity problem.

At the end the Nox come through the gate to rescue the Tollen (prolly spelling both wrong) and then they go through the gate back to the Nox homeworld...

But wouldn't the gate have to have been dialed from Earth for them to return?

I thought it was a 1-way thing.

MistressBratak
July 29th, 2009, 10:10 PM
This episode showed me why my evil (hormonal) alter-ego could never work at the SGC. As soon as the mighty leader of the Tollan said his first ungrateful, condescending word, I would have said, "Oh, looks like we've got a Lieutenant Dan Syndrome on our hands." (I had a destiny! I was supposed to die with my men!)

Then I would have had someone dial the gate to wherever we got those folks from, (if possible), escorted Mr. High and Mighty to the Gateroom in a custom-made, body-size sling.
Then I would have had Teal'c pick him up and swing him in the air, 'round and 'round,
(let's pause and imagine that for a moment, complete with sound effects: whoosh! Whoosh! Whoo-whoo-whoo-WHOOSH!)
and sling his pompous precious self right through that gate.
What? It's not my fault I'm too primitive to understand that that's not the proper way to use the gate?
Then I would have turned to everyone else and said,
"Look, I know we are primitive and inferior. We could try to detain you here, but you will obviously find a way out. At the same time, we don't want you hangin' around turning up your precious little noses at our pitiful primitive secrets either. So how about you cut to the chase, and get the heck off our planet. And do it quickly.
"What? Don't look at us. We don't know squat! We're primitive. Sorry. Can't help you."

Tawny
July 29th, 2009, 10:38 PM
I just started watching the series on DVD, and the thing that jumped out at me in this episode was the continuity problem.

At the end the Nox come through the gate to rescue the Tollen (prolly spelling both wrong) and then they go through the gate back to the Nox homeworld...

But wouldn't the gate have to have been dialed from Earth for them to return?

I thought it was a 1-way thing.

Aye, wormhole travel is one way. It's been a while since I watched this episode, so here goes:
If the wormhole doesn't disengage after they step through, probably a mistake with the continuity.
If it does disengage, but doesnt appear to be dialled, its because they have that wierd arm movement that opens the gate without dialling.

eaglevision
August 2nd, 2009, 12:51 AM
I just started watching the series on DVD, and the thing that jumped out at me in this episode was the continuity problem.

At the end the Nox come through the gate to rescue the Tollen (prolly spelling both wrong) and then they go through the gate back to the Nox homeworld...

But wouldn't the gate have to have been dialed from Earth for them to return?

I thought it was a 1-way thing.

The gate shut down after Lya step through. After that:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y83/radicalnsx/enigma.gif

lordofseas
August 2nd, 2009, 09:07 PM
I just started watching the series on DVD, and the thing that jumped out at me in this episode was the continuity problem.

At the end the Nox come through the gate to rescue the Tollen (prolly spelling both wrong) and then they go through the gate back to the Nox homeworld...

But wouldn't the gate have to have been dialed from Earth for them to return?

I thought it was a 1-way thing.

What the previous poster stated above. When you watch more of the series, you learn that it is possible to do what Lya did. The Nox are indeed technologically advanced.

jsonitsac
August 11th, 2009, 06:59 PM
I thought this was an ok episode and we got to dip a toe into Mayborne's psyche. I didn't find the Tollan all that sympathetic, but I could understand how they felt about the issue.

One thing that bugged me (and this is probably because I've taken graduate level classes in the history of science and technology) was Daniel's comment about the Dark Ages. I realize it's a cliche to say "if it weren't for the Dark Ages..." but the fact is that statement is patently false. First, technology doesn't really have a linear progression (in fact many scholars who study this hate the concept of "progress"). Also, it's very Western European centric, Daniel forgets about the various glories of the Islamic and Asian civilizations during the "Dark Ages." Again, this totally comes from my educational experience and I realize that many people who haven't really studied these things in-depth probably wouldn't nit-pick like that.

drewandian
September 16th, 2009, 09:20 AM
I'm doing a S1 rewatch...and almost skipped this episode....I just don't like the Tollans and Narim is just...I dunno....ick....he just rubs me the wrong way.

The whole phasing through walls thing is still cool though....

Huge Gold Space Cadillac
September 19th, 2009, 05:47 PM
I'm doing a S1 rewatch...and almost skipped this episode....I just don't like the Tollans and Narim is just...I dunno....ick....he just rubs me the wrong way.

The whole phasing through walls thing is still cool though....

I've actually never seen any of SG-1 and am watching S1 for the first time. It was a pretty boring episode. The romance felt forced a bit, too. The cat was awesome, though. XD

SSJPabs
December 5th, 2009, 11:25 AM
Re-watching this episode and I can't help but wonder: What would the Tollan think of humanity if they'd only encountered us in the series present, that is, with all the Asgard tech and ships, and defeated the Goauld etc.

Would they still see us as dangerously primitive? More dangerous than ever?

Also: Always like Lya. She seemed a bit happier to be proactive and help out humans. It's a shame the Nox kind of faded out though I understand there's not really a whole lot interesting you can do with them that doesn't just break the series.

mrscopterdoc
February 8th, 2010, 08:09 PM
I'm doing a S1 rewatch...and almost skipped this episode....I just don't like the Tollans and Narim is just...I dunno....ick....he just rubs me the wrong way.

The whole phasing through walls thing is still cool though....


The cat was awesome, though. XD

I totally agree :D

hawk97135
February 21st, 2010, 04:30 AM
So do I! :D I still can't understand why he wasn't grateful for the rescue.

Now this is pure guesswork and as far as I know there have been no references made to this in any episode at all. But I think that the Tollen may have access to a sarcophagus or something of that nature because just after Omoc is introduced there is the following exchange;


OMOC: There was a rescue transport on the way.

O'NEILL: Well, half your people were already dead. I don't think it would have gotten there in time.

OMOC: Perhaps that's more of a problem for you than it was for us.

Now that makes me think that they can bring someone back from the dead.

Even if this was true Omoc could have been nicer to SG1.

Another point is that no one seemed to think of using the Stargate to goto a planet that was nearer their new homeworld and send a message to them to be picked up from there. But that idea wouldn't have brought back the Nox who are always good.

StargateWatcher
March 30th, 2010, 12:44 PM
No they don't :p

You're right we did meet other advanced peoples. It's just that for me, the Tollans are the first race that we meet that actually "feels" advanced.

Plus I've always thought of the Nox as more biological then technelogical, though I know they do have technology, they don't seem to care about it or why the heck would you live in a hut with no amenities? :eek: :p (They wouldn't share either ;))

The Oannes -- those were Nem's people right? -- Did he say were his people were? We only ever saw him. I guess he just struck me as a loner, not so much as a people.

OR my brain wasn't working and I just forgot about them :p

from what we saw of Thor's mothership, I think we could've deduced they were clearly minimally as advanced though know we know a heck of a lot more as one o the ultr-advanced 4 races

StargateWatcher
March 30th, 2010, 01:13 PM
b) Omac was a true leader, carring for his people's safety (wish we could've seen some more of him);
those Goa'uld *******s just had to kill him

The Goa'uld didn't kill him; some of his fellow Tollan did to prevent him from snitching on the fact they were collab w/ Goa'uld

StargateWatcher
March 30th, 2010, 01:19 PM
I thought this was an ok episode and we got to dip a toe into Mayborne's psyche. I didn't find the Tollan all that sympathetic, but I could understand how they felt about the issue.

One thing that bugged me (and this is probably because I've taken graduate level classes in the history of science and technology) was Daniel's comment about the Dark Ages. I realize it's a cliche to say "if it weren't for the Dark Ages..." but the fact is that statement is patently false. First, technology doesn't really have a linear progression (in fact many scholars who study this hate the concept of "progress"). Also, it's very Western European centric, Daniel forgets about the various glories of the Islamic and Asian civilizations during the "Dark Ages." Again, this totally comes from my educational experience and I realize that many people who haven't really studied these things in-depth probably wouldn't nit-pick like that.

excellent pointin out of these 2 concepts viewers would benefit to keep in mind

StargateWatcher
March 30th, 2010, 01:22 PM
Now this is pure guesswork and as far as I know there have been no references made to this in any episode at all. But I think that the Tollen may have access to a sarcophagus or something of that nature because just after Omoc is introduced there is the following exchange;




Now that makes me think that they can bring someone back from the dead.

Even if this was true Omoc could have been nicer to SG1.

Another point is that no one seemed to think of using the Stargate to goto a planet that was nearer their new homeworld and send a message to them to be picked up from there. But that idea wouldn't have brought back the Nox who are always good.

think he means more of a problem fr Earth's supposed transport vessels fr his peoples' transport vessel to getthere in time

Jacquelyn
April 6th, 2010, 01:02 PM
I actually quite like this episode. I mean meeting another advanced race of people. (though they don't share their technology) And MAINLY because of how sweet the couple of Narim/Sam are. :love: (i dont care if that isn't Narim. :lol: ) I mean I reallyy LOVE Jack/Sam but Narim is a good guy as well. :D

Tachyon
April 6th, 2010, 10:38 PM
Narmi annoyed the heck out of me. :P

But overall this episode is good and I liked seeing the Tollan folk in other episodes as well.

Vagabond Serpent
July 6th, 2010, 09:56 AM
So, Enigma. It was a really good episode to me, though it lacked just a few pointers to reach the outstanding rank. :P

First of all, it was really nice to see a really advanced human race of Earth origins, and it was twice nice to see them far more advanced than us, Terrans, or the Goa'Uld. (And it was very surprising to learn that they don't give a damn about the snakes). In fact the Tollan are so advanced that we can't even reverse-engineer their tech, simply because we can't find out what makes it tick. Like Sam said in the beginning, we were unable to find something familiar in their devices, and only were able to detect weak radiation from the energy sources. No matter what they seem to be, Tollan have much more advanced tech than us or Goa'Uld, being second only to Nox thus far and probably as advanced as Oannes are, so it's much more safe for us to have them as allies, rather than trying to keep them prisoners, like Maybourne was going to. It would be truly a disaster for Earth at that time to face a Tollan fleet or something coming to rescue their brethren from the captivity. I'm sure that they would easily find a moment to covertly send the message to Tollana, like Omac send it to the Nox. So I agree with Hammond's and SG-1 decision to help them out of the trouble.

Now, about their seeming arrogance, especially about Omac. At first, you (well, it was my personal feeling, and I guess many shared it) want to introduce a sword or a bat to his face. But later in the episode, when Narim tells Sam what happened to Serita, it becomes clear why they behave so, why Omac strictly refuses to share their tech with Terrans and seems to be so arrogant and annoying. He's simply trying to protect us, an inferior race from the possible destruction caused by this new technology which we cannot handle. And that's why he so rudely refuses very polite and respectful offer of Tuplo to settle in the Land of Light, calling them even more primitive than us. If we on our current level of knowledge have a very vague opportunity to avoid a catastrophe, they don't stand a chance. "Serita can happen everywhere." And Tollan don't want another Serita. Somebody posted earlier that Tuplo deserved such treatment because the people of the Land of Light were also very reluctant and it was very hard to convince them that their friends and relatives can be cured. But there's a difference. They were so reluctant because they were afraid to give their blood away, even a small dose, not because they were arrogant. Besides, returning to the arrogant Omac, I agree with the opinion that their bad attitude was caused by the sudden lose of their home and of all they were used to. ;) After all he said thank you to Daniel and that Narim was right. He was much more pleasant at that moment than in the beginning, especially when he expressed his hopes to see SG-1 again. :)

Narim's turn. :P Well, he was the only one of Tollan who was friendly towards Terrans, especially towards Sam. He seemed to be the only one willing to cooperate, and it was pleasant to see him on the screen. Heh, he was genuinely amused by the eagle. :D And by Schrodinger too. He nearly fell in love with the poor cat. :P And also he was the only real source of information we had. (Omac told only the basics, who they were and where they were from). And Narim was the link between us and Omac, convincing him and others that at least SG-1 wants to help them to get home. The only thing I disliked about him and about this episode, was his obsession with Sam. If he remained just friendly, it'd be enough in my opinion. The forming relationship just spoiled the episode. Bah, the kiss wasn't necessary at all! :S But I have to admit that our Daniel has the habit of somewhat horrible timing. And I would bite my right ear off to see Jack instead of him in that scene! :rolleyes:

Technology that we saw. Tollan technology seems to be very yummy. :P Well, I'd not mind to have a phase-shifting device they used to walk through the walls. :P :rolleyes: I read somewhere else, not in this thread, that if this device shifts phase of the owners and the one who is in close physical contact with them, then why don't they fall down to the centre of the Earth? Well, in my physicist opinion, it's because the plane of oscillations remains ortogonal to the ground, thus preventing the forementioned fall. :) The communication device is nice too. And the emotions recorder is very good. Somebody told that they need those devices because the Tollan ceased to show their emotions, but I think that sometimes, when no words could express your feelings, that device would be more than handy. :P

Lya's appearance was brilliant. :D I loved the Tollan escape scene, when she activates the gate instantly, and steals all the weapons from the soldiers. And it was extremely pleasant to see Maybourne pissed off, and to imagine what will happen to him in Washington, but Maybourne is a guy you love to hate.

And, of course, the cat was a brilliant actor, he outshone all others. :D :rolleyes: I want a cat with such pattern too... :(

And, to conclude my post, I also wonder why this episode is called "Enigma"? :confused: Were the Tollan enigma? Or was it enigmatic that SG-1 visited Tollan homeworld with a perfect timing to save Omac's group? Well, to me, the biggest enigma is how their communication device works, and I can't stop wondering what Omac tried to explain to Daniel with that vine? If we aren't folding the space, then what do we do? :confused: An enigma! :P

9/10.

maneth
July 12th, 2010, 10:18 AM
Enjoyable if not outstanding episode. Hated Col. Mayborn though, and I guess that's the point. I find the Tollan tech fascinating.

Tallifer
September 10th, 2010, 08:05 PM
This was a good story, because it broadened the universe, adding another advanced race and its tantalizing history.

I was impressed by the logical consequences of their history in their leader's demeanor. In fact I think humans would not use Tollan technology so much to start a Third World War as to destroy our planet's environment irretrievably. After which, humans would spread like a plague of viruses throughout the system of stargates, spoiling every other world ina search for profits and consumer pleasures.

Maybourne may have been on the right side (the defense of earth and humanity) but his wilful ignorance was what made him dangerous and mortally foolish. He and most humans rarely try to understand why things are or what their consequences are, but rather just try to get a working knowledge.

Furthermore, some have posted here that the defense of the earth should take priority over doing the right thing. But what is the point of humanity if we turn to evil to support material existence? Of course we will often do morally reprehensible things, but it is our reluctance to do so, our refusal to do so and our regret to have done so which ennobles us. As someone else has said here, worthwhile fiction (including televised drama) wrestles with these questions.

"Finally brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."

(On a less serious note, I was not at all bothered by Sam's abortive relationship with the Tollan, since I myself cannot see Jack being a proper soul mate for her: he is too deeply ignorant, often wilfully so (such as when he frequently dismisses her attempts at explanation, being only interested in a simple picture). The Tollan was too immature for Sam, but it would be more worth her efforts to teach him about emotions than to teach Jack about the value of education.)

FrodoFraggins
March 18th, 2011, 11:38 PM
I definitely thought this was one of the strongest episodes up until this point.

My only gripe is the fact that the guy that was given the cat seemed to fall in love with Samantha so quickly. It's one of the most overused devices in sci-fi shows since they tend to feel the need to wrap everything up in one episode.

maylet
July 13th, 2011, 09:18 PM
I really like this episode.I didn't like how Omac was with everyone at first, good thing that he was better at the end of the episode.
Narim and Sam, they would have been great together, too bad it couldn't happen.
Lya was amazing, like the first time. I love to see her in another episode, it was really good and the escape scene was amazing, I love it.
It would have been nice to see the Tollan and the Nox again later on the seasons, maybe for the final season, they would have been of great help fighting the Ori, too bad they never saw them again.

Starfox1313
July 29th, 2011, 03:41 PM
They saw the tolans many times through out the series. and the knox you saw one person here and there. But I've said it before and i will say it again the tollans and the knox are just as guilty as the goa'uld They had the ability to take them down and they didn't. In the long run the goa'uld took out the tolans because like the goa'uld do they found better tech.

Noxbait
August 2nd, 2011, 09:47 AM
They saw the tolans many times through out the series. and the knox you saw one person here and there. But I've said it before and i will say it again the tollans and the knox are just as guilty as the goa'uld They had the ability to take them down and they didn't. In the long run the goa'uld took out the tolans because like the goa'uld do they found better tech.

You are quite right. The Tollans and Nox are guilty. Either one of them could have helped (i'm not saying fight out and out wars with the Goa'uld) But they sure could have shared some tech or helped in other ways. The Nox (as far as we know) are still out there living the high life, untouched by oppression, but the Tollans paid a heavy price for their head in the sand, we share with no one policy.

hedwig
August 2nd, 2011, 10:09 AM
They saw the tolans many times through out the series. and the knox you saw one person here and there. But I've said it before and i will say it again the tollans and the knox are just as guilty as the goa'uld They had the ability to take them down and they didn't. In the long run the goa'uld took out the tolans because like the goa'uld do they found better tech.

Unless SG1 saw the Tollans between episodes, there were only about 4 episodes any of the Tollans were seen in.

Enigma
Shades of Grey
Pretense
Between Two Fires

I don't really see the Nox as being guilty of anything. They were pacifists, and that meant not getting involved in any kind of dispute, and if they did it would be to assist both sides (as they did in "The Nox"). And even in "Pretense", Lya only hid one of the weapons, she didn't fire it. The Nox did walk a very fine line sometimes, though, between helping and not helping.


Narim and Sam, they would have been great together, too bad it couldn't happen.

I have to disagree completely with this. Narim was a nice guy. But he was arrogant and condescending, and didn't have a sense of humor. Had they gotten together, it would not have lasted long (IMO), because Sam simply prefers her life to be more exciting than it would be with him. He was a nice, but rather dull character (IMO again). I doubt he would have come to live on earth and stay there with such an "inferior" race, and Sam would never have felt comfortable on Tollana being around people who thought of her as being "inferior", even if she did get to learn about their technology and such.


=Noxbait]The Nox (as far as we know) are still out there living the high life, untouched by oppression, but the Tollans paid a heavy price for their head in the sand, we share with no one policy

That is their right. Unless somebody actually intrudes on their planet, they don't go out of their way to travel to other planets and visit other cultures. They are quite happy to cut themselves off from the rest of the galaxy (whether anyone else likes it or not). Also whether anyone likes it or not, compared to the Nox, the Tau'ri are very young and impressionable and haven't learned enough to be trusted with superior knowledge (or weapons). We like to think we are, and, in fact, parts of earth's population is. But, in fact, we are not. :)

ChulaksPrincess
August 7th, 2011, 06:02 PM
I can see where you are coming from concerning the Tolan, but if I had been in O'Mauc's position, I would have done the same thing for the protection of my people concerning sharing knowledge and technology. The Tolan had already seen what happened by allowing their technology to be used by other beings when that other planet's inhabitants destroyed themselves with it. I can't, and don't blame the Tolan for their polacy of not sharing with anyone. After being burned once their feared the fire. I can understand that.

Narim and Sam, no, that would not last very long.

Brother Freyr
August 11th, 2011, 09:23 AM
There are fans who dislike the Tolons, but I love this episode and also like the Tolons despite their haughtiness. Loved to see Lya again. Her comment to Daniel -- "Your race has learned nothing, but you have." -- is the perfect blend of disappointment and hope. Lya is awesome.

Narim: "Our sleeping platforms adjust automatically. They don't come with accoutrements." Every time I watch this episode, that line shakes my suspension of disbelief. I understand the practical necessity for everyone to speak one language, but when people from alien worlds use words that are adopted from other Earth languages (like accoutrement, which is French), it reminds me of the absurdity of the show's universal language, you know? It jolts me out of the fantasy world and back to reality, even if only for a moment.

Good episode, continuing the general first season trend from lackluster to remarkable.

muziqaz
August 16th, 2011, 06:18 AM
I remember when I 1st watched this episode loads of years ago after the 1st scene where Omoc tells Carter not to save them, the last thing I expected from those people was for them to be advanced civ. Really enjoyed the episode primarily because Maybourne got screwed. have I told anyone that I hate politics? :D And Lya was there, helped out in this situation.
Was weird hearing Hammond asking Sg-1 of what happened after they got last person trough the gate. I don't think that SG1 managed to rescue all those people in couple of seconds. I am sure Hammond and whole SGC had a chance to know what is happening, not specifics but that there was a volcanic activity and stuff. And SG1 had to dial back and ask for help to rescue those people, afterall they are only 4 of them and they rescued 10 people. So during that period quick info should have been given to SGC, so I think that question was a bit out of place.
I didn't enjoy Omoc's tone towards the team. I know you are more advanced than us by couple of hundred years, but you don't need to be an a** about it. I know they were cautious about less advanced, sorry, primitive, civs because of what happened with their neighbours, but again, they shouldn't not have been complete a**es about it. Just say politely that we do not share tech, we can be friends but no tech sharing, or we cannot be friends.
I think they themselves were still too young to treat people who saved them like that and what happened to them later in the series was because their overconfidence. They are advanced, but not enough to feel the way they did. That is why I liked Nox, as they were waaaay more advanced than Tollan and were quite polite towards us and they had a right to be confident in themselves.
Also that were no birds in Tollan shows a lot that they are still very young.
And I completely shocked about Daniel, when he mentioned Nox to Tollans:
<..>people were as advanced as you, maybe even more advanced.
In my mind Nox were at least 100s of thousands years further advanced than anything in this galaxy we met. I know early in the series, still inexperienced :D
And Narim, walking trough walls, way to impress a girl :D
'What do you mean, disappeared?'
'I mean... like... pooof, sir' :D
And Lya opening the wormhole is one of the coolest scenes for me in the series :)

dtheories
August 16th, 2011, 09:28 AM
Lot of superior/inferior focus. Not saying that they are similar, much, but if Kinsey were representative of U.S. congress, well, I'd actually be glad all the superior races kept their superior technology to themselves!
Jack's "Amuck" was a slap me rosy moment. And of course we have our first appearance of a UAV and of Maybourne. Daniel is still open, honest, curious and innocent and that's what draws Omac to in the end respect, if not be amused, by the Tauri.
A cute ep, if not a little sappy, "What your mind doesn't know your heart fills in." sign.

lookupwardsnshare
August 17th, 2011, 12:34 PM
Liked this episode. I also liked the scenes between Narim and Sam. He had such a peaceful calm in his voice. He understood Omac's point of view along with the SG command's point of view and tried to join the two.

Maybourne!! I like him throughout the series and the banter between him and Jack starts in this ep...Also liked how Gen Hammond handles Maybourne in the briefing room..."That's an order "col"

Hate politics in general

Loved the ending ...The Nox...Lya..."Your race has learned nothing, but you have"...Jack: "God I love those people"

Overall, it wasn't one of my fav episodes of season one but having watched again (3rd rewatch) I think it is a pivotal episode for the story arc down the line...

lookupwardsnshare
August 17th, 2011, 12:40 PM
Question: Is there anyway the UAV's can return back on their own to command? If they send one thru n cant get back, isn't that tax dollars being misspent...imagine they are not a cheap asset. Just wondering. Maybe somehow they can be programmed to access DHD and dial home. Don't remember if this is established down the line or not, but it would be good to get them back w/o having someone on the other side to bring them back.

poundpuppy29
August 17th, 2011, 12:44 PM
interesting episode loved the Nox at the end

muziqaz
August 17th, 2011, 02:26 PM
Question: Is there anyway the UAV's can return back on their own to command? If they send one thru n cant get back, isn't that tax dollars being misspent...imagine they are not a cheap asset. Just wondering. Maybe somehow they can be programmed to access DHD and dial home. Don't remember if this is established down the line or not, but it would be good to get them back w/o having someone on the other side to bring them back.

:D

what about using Promethios or other space ships for some off mission stuff? :D

Starscape91
August 17th, 2011, 03:19 PM
I really enjoyed this episode finding another race that was superior to them and they still think that we are to young was funny. I liked the fact that the Tollan actually had a good reason for not giving Earth new tech. Knowing that they did it before with another race and they destroyed themselves and did irreparable damage to the Tollan home world. While The Nox just said that Earth was to young. Omoc kind of annoyed me in the beginning, but he grew on me later on. I actually liked Narim the first time I saw this episode but I find him kind of creepy in the later episodes with the Tollan. When I saw Lya it brought a smile to my face and how she foiled Maybournes plans.

Lieutenant Sparrow
August 18th, 2011, 02:17 AM
Don't really like this ep. Except for the ending of course.

Was either to soppy or just boring.

chaddergate
August 19th, 2011, 08:20 AM
Ah, the Tollan, another advanced species...but this one's leader has something stuck up his butt. Yeah, I get their prime directive, because of what happened to that other group of people. But they can be a little nicer, well, at least Omoc. But, despite that...a great ep. :)

Skydiver
August 19th, 2011, 05:39 PM
Question: Is there anyway the UAV's can return back on their own to command? If they send one thru n cant get back, isn't that tax dollars being misspent...imagine they are not a cheap asset. Just wondering. Maybe somehow they can be programmed to access DHD and dial home. Don't remember if this is established down the line or not, but it would be good to get them back w/o having someone on the other side to bring them back.

in later episodes they mention retrieving the UAV...the premise is that the UAV and or MALP will make their way back to the gate and be retrieved when teams go home.

Krisz
August 19th, 2011, 08:43 PM
Ah, the Tollan, another advanced species...but this one's leader has something stuck up his butt. Yeah, I get their prime directive, because of what happened to that other group of people. But they can be a little nicer, well, at least Omoc. But, despite that...a great ep. :)

Omoc is no Jean Luc Picard in that respect!!! :P

It's like he was kicking himself for the whole Tolan race for what happened when they shared some of their technology once before. No wonder he was so grumpy when faced with a less advanced race! :D

It still baffles me why they have technology that allows them to walk through walls! Guess they hate going the long way round to wherever they need to! Wonder if they had mishaps and ended up walking in on their next door neighbour on the toilet or busy making baby Tolans because they are not sure where their house ends!! :P

Nindif
August 22nd, 2011, 03:49 AM
Furthermore, some have posted here that the defense of the earth should take priority over doing the right thing. But what is the point of humanity if we turn to evil to support material existence? Of course we will often do morally reprehensible things, but it is our reluctance to do so, our refusal to do so and our regret to have done so which ennobles us. As someone else has said here, worthwhile fiction (including televised drama) wrestles with these questions.

I agree with what you said, and all the while Maybourne is smearing his position of Presidential power over the SGC i was wondering 'Why the heck would we imprison the first advance culture we come across?'. Maybourne states 'We will make them talk' (or something to that affect) Why would the President condone such an approach to obtaining technology? It just seems so completely backwards.

I loved this episode. The Nox at the end was a highlight (Love the way Lya activates the gate).

Narim is very well played, his voice is so soothing and him and Sam are very nice together. I feel the writers wrote some beautifully elloquent dialogue for Narim which was presented masterfully.

Easily Season 1 Top 5, and would be one of the most relevent for the ongoing arc for the entire series.

Jae'a
August 22nd, 2011, 07:19 AM
My LiveJournal post. (http://jo-r-lee.livejournal.com/5573.html)

OK, so I like the Nox more than these guys.. :P
I don't get all the fuss about the cat though, but then again, I am a dog person. :D

LeftHandedGuitarist
August 22nd, 2011, 11:56 AM
This episode rocks. I love the visuals of the opening teaser, the volcanic planet is such a vibrant location.

I clearly recall watching this episode when it was first broadcast because it had something that the sci-fi TV I had seen so rarely did: continuity. When Tuplo shows up I remember being literally stunned that such a minor character from a one-off episode would make another appearance. I was so used to Star Trek's style of storytelling wherein that sort of thing never happened (DS9 being something of an exception), and I absolutely loved SG-1 for doing it. It was made even better when Lya appeared at the end, and I knew Stargate was going to be a very different kind of show.

The Tollan themselves are fascinating characters, although Omoc is unbelievably rude. I'd still like to have seen him come back in later episodes, but I guess Tobin Bell was too busy becoming famous! Strangely I always remember him from SG-1 rather than the Saw movies or anything else he's done, because his character was strongly defined. I liked that he showed a little bit of warmth in the scene with Daniel on the mountaintop.

- Maybourne's first appearance! Wow, he was a git right from the start, wasn't he? Again, in another nod towards continuity, I liked that they mentioned Colonel Kennedy.

- Narim is also another good character, even though he seems a bit boring. The scenes between him and Sam are somewhat forced but still very eloquently done.

- General Hammond again shows that he is a good guy, even though he's really forced into tricky situations. He can't always find the wiggle room he may need (as we saw in Cor-ai) but whenever he can he'll use it.

- First UAV appearance, Jack's reaction to it going through the gate made me chuckle. He'll get bored of it soon!

- I can't quite figure out why the episode is called 'Enigma'. Surely that implies there is some sort of big mystery or secret to be unraveled, but no. This is just a story about some refugees and what sneaky tactics SG-1 can employ to help them.

- My favourite line was probably from Daniel: "I voted for him!"

We're nicely into the home stretch of pretty strong season 1 episodes now, I think the really weak stuff is done and dusted.

RATING: 8 out of 10

Matt G
August 22nd, 2011, 03:56 PM
Another Sunday afternoon...another SG1 ep and it must have been around the time I first watched this ep that I took my first dip into Stargate fandom because I vaguely remember talking about this up on the Channel 4 forum.

1. OK, did not expect this bunch to be advanced, Daniel was probably the only one that came up with the Dark Ages theory.

2. Omoc though did indeed have his head up his mik'tah. OK fine, SG1 messed up their plans but that was some pretty serious ash coming through.

3. Like others, I was stunned first time round when Tuplo showed up again.

4. Maymourne, just initially seemed to be another Kennedy, didn't really expect to see him again.

5. Was cool to see the Nox again though.

Cool ep.

jlovette
August 23rd, 2011, 06:32 PM
Okay, school starting and this oppressive North Texas heat wave is really interfering with my plan to watch every episode while running on the treadmill. Finally got back on track today.

This is a great episode. Despite Omoc's rudeness, I love the scene where he tries to teach Daniel about folding space (or not folding space, as it turned out).

I love shows that reward viewers with call backs to previous episodes and events, like this episode did. One of my favorites of the season.

Noxbait
August 23rd, 2011, 07:35 PM
So I haven't seen this one in awhile. Somehow I tend to forget how many actually really good episodes were in S1 and 2. : )

I thought this was an interesting episode. A unique problem for them to encounter...a group of people who don't want to be saved! How interesting. And how cool (yet rather dangerous) that the Earthlings will put the sanctity of life above the thought that these unknown people might actually pose a threat to someone! : ) Still learning...

I have to say, I like Maybourne and it's so much fun to see him now, and watch his character development again. I think he is one of the most interesting and unique characters. and I just can't get enough Jack/Harry banter!

I like Narim too. He seems like a decent guy (maybe a bit forward, but nice). I love the scene where Daniel walks in on them. Such a little brother thing to do. : ) (reminds me of Message in a Bottle and the thing with Simmons, and Tok'Ra with Martouf!)

Love Lya so much! Love that whole end scene, right up to the nice teamy moment at the end.

Ok, the other thing that hit me while I watched it this time around was the whole thing with Omoc. He's pretty cold, rude, and downright nasty.

What entered my mind as I watched this, is that Omoc is kind of like an older even more cynical version of Jack. I mean, he felt some remorse over what happened to the people they gave tech to and he didn't want it to happen again. If the same thing had happened to earth because of something the SGC or Jack did, I could imagine that he would react much the same way. Afraid to interact with anyone, give any information; make the same mistake twice. The thing is, it bugs me that all these groups look down on "primitive" cultures. I'd think that even advanced groups could misuse tech. : )

I did like him more when he was up top talking to Daniel. He let down his crusty exterior for a moment and actually showed that he might deep down be even a friendly guy.

Those were just some of my thoughts. I know I thought of other things as I watched, but they have fled me now. : ) I really enjoyed this one, especially in light of the many things it lays the foundation for in the future. :jack_new_anime07:

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
August 23rd, 2011, 09:13 PM
A pretty good episode, one of the 10 episodes of Season 1.

We met the Tollan, who thought we were bastards *check see if the forums censors me, for that "b" word* (Nope) and primitive, isn't that original (The Nox (primitive) and the Goa'uld/Jaffa (both) to name a few). But that changed in later episodes.

The introduction of Maybourne (:cool:), and a bastard (90% of the time) with bipolar disorder (aka "wants SG-1 to follow his orders" to "wants to work with SG-1") *Realizes that isn't what bipolar disorder is, oops:D*

In tomorrow's ep, SG-1 gets cloned without their permission. This sets up the penultimate episode of SG-1 4th Season.

Sorry about my 2 swears, I'm just being 100% honest.

JacksonMiracle
August 25th, 2011, 08:54 PM
Confession time. When I first saw this episode years ago, it was honestly not one of my favorites. I'm not sure what I was thinking then, but maybe I was bored by it, just a little. :o There weren't any really big action scenes, and the new technology that was encountered, we didn't get to keep to use in the future, and at the time it may have seemed like we had just lost yet another potential ally.

But there is good news to all this, thanks to the Rewatch, I was given the opportunity to re-evaluate my opinion of this episode, and I LOVE it now! :D I had missed so much the first time watching this episode, and had forgotten even more! Anyway, I have now declared it one of the "hidden gems" of season one.

StarSancFar
August 26th, 2011, 07:35 AM
I personally love this episode! I love Narim and Sams relationship, which is played so well by both actors, and the Tollan races' backstory is well thought out. It wasn't just a case of 'We don't wanna share', they had a perfectly good reason for not wanting to share their tech with Earth. I mean, if the roles were reversed, we would probably do the same thing, and not be as nice about it :)

Oh, and I also loved the Nox appearance at the end, that gave it a nice ending and a 'HA! in your face Maybourne' moment! LOL :D

Top 5 eps, for deffinate!

hlndncr
August 26th, 2011, 11:58 AM
I enjoy this episode. It's not one of my favorites, but it's not bad. I think the Tollans are an interesting race. Later we see that they are willing to be friendly with us, just not willing to share their advanced technology. And they have perfectly valid reason for their policy. (Really, the US military doesn't share it's advanced technology with less developed countries-especially when we don't know or trust their motivations-so we have no room for complaint here.) I think the real problem is that Omac was clearly never intended to be the diplomatic spokesman for the Tollan people. It's clearly not his strong suit.

I like Narim alright in this episode. I can certainly understand why he would be attracted to Sam. She is beautiful and she did help save his life. He's a little condescending toward her in terms of her knowledge and understanding of science, but I think he does recognize that more than any of the others he's met on earth she does have the capacity to perhaps learn and understand at their level.

I'm slightly puzzled by Sam's reactions. When she's first introduced to Narim it's clear General Hammond wants to use his infatuation with her to get information. I'm a little surprised Sam just goes along with it. She's definitely lost that giant feminist chip on her shoulder she started out with in CotG, but I would think she should still be at least mildly offended at the suggestion that she use her "feminine wiles" so to speak. But maybe the Hathor experience has made the idea of flirting a little to get a job done, not quite so outside the pale.

Love seeing Maybourne for the first time. He's pretty cookie cutter at this point. But it's fun to watch his character transform into something altogether more interesting.




http://signavatar.com/7792_s.gif

Traveler Enroute1
August 27th, 2011, 01:11 PM
SG Rewatch episodes: 101 - 105, 106, 107, 109, 110, 111,112, 113, 114, 115, 116

Enigma

Ooh, another favorite. SG-1 pulls off a dramatic and dangerous rescue that yields survivors who are advanced egotists who don't appreciate the team's help and are very vocal about it. An ep with touches of whimsy, romance, angst. This one explored just how advanced the human race can become, if we hadn't had a Dark Ages, as Daniel theorized.

Very interesting to see how the team dealt with an ungrateful expedition leader who kept calling them 'primitive.' That got to me, too after a bit. There they were, expecting to be thanked and they got attitude instead. The actor who played Omoc did a thorough job of making himself unlikable. He went so far as to insult poor Tuplo. Where does one go from there.

Well, to the devil apparently. Having turned down Tuplo's offer, nemesis-in-waiting Col. Maybourne arrives to take the refugees into 'protective custody.' Even Hammond's famed red phone doesn't help; Maybourne's got it sewn up. SG-1 may not like the Tollan but they easily see they don't like Maybourne or his plans even more. Hence our guys have to try to save the ungrateful wretches yet again.

The story moves into a race to get the Tollan off world and away from earth's government. Poor Daniel and Sam have to try to explain that it's only a few knuckleheads trying to use the Tollan. Little good that does, until Daniel comes up with a novel plan, and crusty Omak bends enough to try it.

A favorite part of this episode was Sam's friendship with Narim. While being rescued by her, he thought she was their equivalent of an angel, 'a beautiful' one. That Narim was smooth. He was smitten with Sam, although she seemed attracted on a lesser level. It was part of her job to get some intel from the closed-mouthed refugees, and he was very open to her. Not that she used him but he was cooperative and she took it from there.

However, Narim took his crush a shade too far for Sam's comfort. When he gave her the doohickey that recorded his feelings, she quickly went from smiling to awkward. On speculation, she learned that his feelings for her went to a level she hadn't considered yet. Did he fully control himself when around her, or did he relay the full gamut of his crush? He should have just skipped to the 'Tollana custom' part, the kiss. Sam seemed ok with that!

Daniel just makes friends with anyone. Omoc bonds with him a little as they attempt to reach the Nox. Daniel's diplomacy went a long way toward relaxing the Tollan suspicions a little, and Lya's compliment seemed to indicate the Nox also weren't so hard on the Tau'ri anymore. SG-1, in trying to save others from virtual slavery on their own planet scored points big time.

Good lines:

God, I love those people! Jack said when Lya does her thing. I do too, Jack.

There are some things I'll miss about this planet. I speak of course, of Schrodinger. Narim teased Sam, who blushed when she thought he was speaking of her. Of course he was. He made a joke, made Sam smile; he's officially a good guy.

Of note:



Laughed at Daniel's reaction to following Omoc through the wall. So much like a newbie's first trip through the gate.


When Narim saw a bird, why did it have to be a bald eagle, hmm? :jack_new_anime06:


Just who the !! was on the PA when the gate activated, the janitor? His announcement was phew awful, definitely overlooked in editing.


Can't beat the lovely entrance and exit of the lovely Lya. Nice to see the Nox again so soon.


The last shot of the team looking at the gate - never gets old.



This time we got to meet some semi-good guys with advanced tech who, like the Nox, won't share it with 'the very young' ('which is a shade more polite than primitive.'). Omoc was actually right to be careful who they deal with but his people skills were sucky. The Tollan let their one mistake with their neighbor sour them on everyone. But as they noted, everybody needs friends sometime.

Then we got the new military brass-brained Maybourne, who when thwarted promised comeuppance in one stony glare. Earth is destined to be a thorn in its own side at this point.

Rated 3.5/5

jelgate
August 27th, 2011, 03:35 PM
I love how Danile forgets to mention the areas on the planet that never had the dark ages when he mentions a reason for the advanced Tollans.:P

This episode is kind of meh to me. Its not bad but its not overall good. I find the Tollans distrustful of us just drags on with no point. Yes I understand but I don't really care. It only gets interesting later when Maybourne shows up to add some conflict to the Tollans plight of trying to get home. Although I have to wonder how Daniel and Tealc got off so easily with disobeying the president's orders

muziqaz
August 27th, 2011, 04:47 PM
I love how Danile forgets to mention the areas on the planet that never had the dark ages when he mentions a reason for the advanced Tollans.:P

<...>

what parts of the world do you mean?
I imagine that Tollan did not have all the bad things what happened to us during our history. Maybe they started as one nation in the planet so resources were pooled and no secrets spying and stuff :)

jelgate
August 28th, 2011, 05:58 AM
I won't deny their are scenarios to make the Tollans more advanced then us despite orginating on Earth. Just that it was mostly Europe who went through the dark ages. Other areas of the world advanced in a normal path

muziqaz
August 28th, 2011, 06:45 AM
I won't deny their are scenarios to make the Tollans more advanced then us despite orginating on Earth. Just that it was mostly Europe who went through the dark ages. Other areas of the world advanced in a normal path
Yes, but during that period what was happening in North/South Americas? Every continent and region had their own 'dark ages' at some point or the other. heck I even would call current period a dark age :D

jelgate
August 28th, 2011, 02:25 PM
I won't argue the personal opinions of what you consider the dark ages but Daniel was referenceing the period historians call the Dark Ages which happened mostly in Europe

muziqaz
August 28th, 2011, 04:36 PM
And again, what was happening in other continents during Europes dark ages? As far as I remember from History classes, Europe was a center of culture and other stuff, was it not?
It is not like today, if some african countries have currency bills in billions but it does not affect other countries much.
Back in middle ages it was more centralised. North/South America's weren't even discovered yet, Asia was a land of far away. Most of the stuff what was happening happened and started from Europe.

fems
September 1st, 2011, 01:21 PM
However, Narim took his crush a shade too far for Sam's comfort. When he gave her the doohickey that recorded his feelings, she quickly went from smiling to awkward. On speculation, she learned that his feelings for her went to a level she hadn't considered yet. Did he fully control himself when around her, or did he relay the full gamut of his crush? He should have just skipped to the 'Tollana custom' part, the kiss. Sam seemed ok with that!



Knowing he had that kind of technology with him and learning in Between Two Fires (5x09) about

Narim having Sam's voice in his house for his voice system ,

kind of makes you wonder what other technologies the Tollan had on them and what use they could serve...

garhkal
September 5th, 2011, 04:25 PM
I wonder what ever happened to that device Narrim left for sam?

VampyreWraith
September 7th, 2011, 03:43 PM
I love this episode, it's one of my favorites from the first season. I loved the Tollan and there introduction here. Narim was cool, I liked him, even if I found his infatuation with Sam just a tad on the creepy side(but still kinda sweet in a way). I liked Omac, even though he was extremely rude, he wasn't being mean just to be a jerk, he had reasons. I really liked his scenes with Daniel towards the end. I loved Maybourne as the antagonist in this ep. I loved Hammond, he was great; and I also loved Lya at the end. :)

LeftHandedGuitarist
September 8th, 2011, 05:24 AM
Is it weird that I find Lya very hot?

muziqaz
September 8th, 2011, 07:12 AM
Is it weird that I find Lya very hot?

She is very charismatic :)

Matt G
September 9th, 2011, 02:14 PM
Is it weird that I find Lya very hot?

The actress is pretty fit so...fine.

moondragon
October 15th, 2011, 12:31 AM
YAY for the Nox again!! It was great to see Lya again. This was a great episode that brought back a races previously met AND we got to meet a new one. I always felt the Tollan to be extremely arrogant. Yes they are way smarter than we are, but they dont have to call us primitive and look down their noses at us. I did find Narim a welcome individual who showed interest in Earth and its people, especially Sam. The only negative to Narim would be his almost obsessive infatuation with Sam. We also got the see Mayborne and the mention of the NID for the first time. Who knew that both would become such a pain in SGCs collective behinds? One favorite moment from the show was Jack's "Promoted? Talk about failing upwards". I think it shows his contempt with the higher ups.

Dimes
December 23rd, 2011, 10:03 AM
Okay episode, damn those Pentagon people -.0

johnsmith9875
January 13th, 2012, 01:05 PM
Question, but why did Tollana have an old style Ancients gate rather than one of their own style? You later find out in the series they pretty much consider gate technology nothing special and they built their own gate for their new homeworld.

So why did they use an outdated one on the original planet???

johnsmith9875
January 13th, 2012, 01:07 PM
I wouldn't call Narim creepy, but he's very smooth, as in colt .45 Billy Dee Williams smooth. Definitely a ladies man.

johnsmith9875
January 13th, 2012, 01:08 PM
I'm sure she submitted it for examination at Area 51 like a good little USAF girl, but Daniel Jackson quipped that they had already examined them and couldn't figure out what they were or even how they worked. Technology so advanced it bordered on useless.

Inquisitor
January 21st, 2012, 08:23 PM
Question, but why did Tollana have an old style Ancients gate rather than one of their own style? You later find out in the series they pretty much consider gate technology nothing special and they built their own gate for their new homeworld.

So why did they use an outdated one on the original planet???

Why fix something that isn't broken?

Omac
July 13th, 2012, 07:08 AM
Why fix something that isn't broken?

Perfectly right !

About the space folding device or whatever it can be, any ideas ? There’s actually a thread about it, but I think it’s time, given recent major discoveries, to renew it

Zaany
August 10th, 2012, 07:14 AM
Either this or Thors Hammer is my favorite episode from season 1.

Major_Clanger
September 30th, 2012, 10:18 AM
nice ep, loved the cat and the concept of a society so advanced that their planet doesn't have any animals on it.
ETA: what I mean by that is that they loved the idea of progress so much that they forgot to pay attention to the detail of looking after their planet.

I hate to disappoint Daniel, and I think Jack should know better but I'm pretty sure that the US Military is the same as the British military in that when you go to work with and for them you sign a contract that submits you to military law. Which means that, yes, Daniel could be court martialled.

Anyhooo... I like the Tolan. It's great to see a race with superior knowledge and a VERY good reason not to want to share it. And it's always great to see the Nox. So sweet and lovely, and so very very powerful.

Insolent Slave
January 21st, 2013, 12:38 PM
Question, but why did Tollana have an old style Ancients gate rather than one of their own style? You later find out in the series they pretty much consider gate technology nothing special and they built their own gate for their new homeworld.

So why did they use an outdated one on the original planet???

Ok old thread but I'm rewatching and this always bothered me about the Tolen. They have the knowledge to build their own Gate (in later episodes) but they don't have ships that travel light speed? They say they don't have ships that could make it to Earth in their lifetime. I find that hard to believe due to other technological advances.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
January 22nd, 2013, 07:31 AM
They're very insular and have no need for fast ships. Kind of like the Chinese during the middle ages. The technology might be there but with no need, nothing gets built.

Seaboe

Seaboe Muffinchucker
January 22nd, 2013, 07:33 AM
I hate to disappoint Daniel, and I think Jack should know better but I'm pretty sure that the US Military is the same as the British military in that when you go to work with and for them you sign a contract that submits you to military law. Which means that, yes, Daniel could be court martialled.

But what if he were an independent contractor? That is, not an employee of the military.

Seaboe

Vagabond Serpent
January 22nd, 2013, 07:55 AM
I've no idea abous US or British army, but here in Russia even independent contractor will get court-martialled for breaking laws, regulations or contract terms. Ministry of Defense doesn't like to be messed with :P

fems
January 22nd, 2013, 09:13 AM
I've no idea abous US or British army, but here in Russia even independent contractor will get court-martialled for breaking laws, regulations or contract terms. Ministry of Defense doesn't like to be messed with :P

I don't know about RL but independent contractors often seem to get away with such things in American TV shows as they are never subjected to military law. I've seen it happen in a number of shows.

Vagabond Serpent
January 22nd, 2013, 09:51 AM
Yeah, well show is a show, RL is RL... I've seen history books and news reports enough to know, beside I'm from a military family, so I can judge my country at least.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
January 22nd, 2013, 11:34 AM
It's not that an independent contractor can't be criminally prosecuted, it's just that I'm pretty sure it would not be a court-martial. ETA: and part of the punishment would almost certainly be an inability to contract with the government.

Seaboe

Vagabond Serpent
January 24th, 2013, 10:17 AM
Different countries have different laws. :) Here even independants could get court-martialled if they jeopardize, sabotage etc military operations or stuff.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
January 24th, 2013, 12:07 PM
I guess what I'm saying, VS is that in the U.S., whatever they did to punish Daniel wouldn't be called a court martial. Courts martial deal only with members of the military.

Seaboe

Insolent Slave
February 1st, 2013, 12:41 PM
They're very insular and have no need for fast ships. Kind of like the Chinese during the middle ages. The technology might be there but with no need, nothing gets built.

Seaboe

Ok so their lack of fast ships in spite of their technology is chapping my butt again! I'm watching "100 Days", we are told the Tolan do have ships but not fast enough to be useful. Arghh!!

Falcon Horus
May 20th, 2013, 05:28 PM
Schrödinger -- I love that cat! :D

Random note: both McKay & Carter had a cat.
(lack of SGA PTW originality shows even in characters)

I'm partial to this episode. I don't really dislike it, but I don't really like it either. We're not as technological advanced as we like to believe, and when the opportunity arises we show just how primitive we can be. The young do not always do as they are told... big time. But we're learning so that's a good think.

Maybourne in a fit... he'll be back! :p

And the Nox... lovely people they are.

fems
May 22nd, 2013, 05:12 AM
If it makes you feel any better, it was never said it was actually Carter's cat. She could have gotten it from the pound or wherever, considering she's never even mentioned a pet before or after. Not to mention I find it hard to believe she'd just hand over a loved pet to someone she hardly knows and who hasn't even seen animals in his lifetime, and thus wouldn't know how to take care of the cat, or have proper food (cat food or small animals) for it! :P

Falcon Horus
May 22nd, 2013, 05:46 AM
Mmm... now that you mention it... never thought about it that way. :)

Well, when Narim sends Schrodinger back he still looks his fat-cat self so I guess he figured it out on time. :p

fems
May 22nd, 2013, 08:17 AM
Yeah, fortunately for Schröedinger those Tollans are technologically advanced enough to find him food! :P Or maybe their new planet had small animals, or the Nox gave Narim some tips! :P

Falcon Horus
May 22nd, 2013, 08:24 AM
Or maybe they can talk to animals... *snort*... that would be the day.

AsgardGirl
September 15th, 2014, 07:28 AM
I don’t like Tollan and Tollan episodes. Narim creeps me out, even though he reminds me Data from Star Trek Next Generation, whom I like.

garhkal
September 16th, 2014, 11:12 PM
Maybe its cause he has a crush on carter.

ngewakl
February 9th, 2015, 02:12 AM
Okay, I saw this episode a long time ago and I loved it. I loved it because of the Nox. I don't remember what I felt about the Tollan but I'm sure I was okay with them. But now, I see the stupidity of the Tollan. Call us earthlings primitive. Well, we may be primitive in technology, but we are vastly superior to the Tollan in terms of philosophy. First of all, the Tolan should be ecstatic that they are on Earth. This is the cradle of life. I assume if they are that technologically advanced, they would know that they are not indigenous to their home planet. They would have figured they came from somewhere else. A truly enlightened society would jump at the chance to learn about their origins. This would have been the discovery of a lifetime. Now to the issue of technology sharing. This is an example to the Prime Directive troupe that Star Trek uses all the time. Contact between less advanced civilizations has always ended badly. This is a very western idea. I come from Micronesia and the Pacific has benefited from trade and technology sharing for 5000 years. In fact, the migration patterns of the pacific is based on a particular piece of shared technology, Laptia Pottery. While their were wars as a result of weapons trade with Europeans in the late 1800's there were also new ideas of philosophy and repurposing of technologies from Europe that lead to the further development and advancement of the Pacific Peoples. I understand the the Tollan had a bad experience with sharing technology, but their logic, they will never help anybody else. Its like saving a baby from a burning car and that baby ends up being the antichrist. Therefore, from now on, we will never save babies from burning cars. We will just watch them die. Which is what the Tollan are basically telling us they will do. They will watch us get destroyed by the Goauld and they won't help us. The is the problem with and idea like the Prime Directive. It is a good foundation but it should be the moral measuring stick by which you determine whether to help someone or let them fall. It should not be an absolute truth. Decisions should be made with through the morality of the present rather than the possibility of the future. There is a reason why it is innocent until proven guilty. Rather 10 people go free than one innocent man goes to jail. The Tollan are perfectly willing to let us defend ourselves rather than 'interfere'. Interference is how their civilization got started in the first place. I don't know man, it just seems to me that the Tollan are cavemen with AK-47s. They have advanced technology but primitive morality. The only reason the Government was taking matters into their own hands is because of the impending threat of the Goauld and it is perfectly understandable that you would do whatever it takes to get an edge over your enemy. If you ask me, if the Tollan were forthright from the beginning, things would have gone a lot smoother. In our modern society, while humans are capable of insane things, we are also capable of defending the weak and lifting up the poor. I would think that a race so advanced would have a different perspective. Now the Nox, I like. They never said that they would not trade technologies etc., in fact, that nice old man tried to teach Daniel a thing or too. That's what you are supposed to do when you are more advanced than someone. Collaboration is what allows our knowledge to grow. In today's world, you have people of all different backgrounds working together to further our development. I would like to think that the reason colonialism helped destroy many young cultures and societies is because colonialism itself was not as advanced an idea. Just because big brother corrupted little jimmy does not mean Grandpa will do the same. There is a level of wisdom that comes with experience. To simplify it to some naturalistic fallacy is insane. We are better than that. So I say screw the Tollan. They should have gated back to their original planet and let them die. Luckily for them, the Nox were not as arrogant as they were. Because if the Nox were like the Tollan, they would have deemed them primitive and not come to help them. Sorry for my rant. This rewatch has been good and I give this episode 4 stars because it is a good episode. But that does not mean I like the Tollan because I think they are the 'primitive' species and I am glad they got destroyed by their own arrogance. I think this is what happens to them...I don't remember.

TheNox21
June 18th, 2015, 03:09 PM
I personally can't stand arrogance. The Tollan are the definition of arrogance. Most of them wanted nothing to do with primitive people, and that really angered me! I would want to help younger culture if I were part of an advanced culture.

Falcon Horus
June 18th, 2015, 03:39 PM
I personally can't stand arrogance. The Tollan are the definition of arrogance. Most of them wanted nothing to do with primitive people, and that really angered me! I would want to help younger culture if I were part of an advanced culture.

To which culture do you belong now? I imagine, wherever you're from you can enjoy the newest technologies. How much would you share with the culture which is younger and is still learning and making mistakes.

The Tollan knew what could happen if they shared their technology. They'd done it before and those people had used the technology to wipe eachother out and destroy their planet. People from Earth aren't even united. We fight amongst ourselves. Sure, we can say we will only use it to fight the Goa'uld, but we all know if that were that the case none of the research at Area 51 which led to SG1's version of the deathgliders, would have ever happened.

Anything in a country's favor to show their superiority over the rest of the world, will be showcased and put to good use should the need arise. I'm the sure the US felt superior when they build the first atomic weapons and then dropped them in the center of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Same superiority I'm sure Japan felt when they snug into Pearl Harbor that Sunday morning and blasted the entire harbor to kingdom come.

Would you still consider sharing, knowing that?

Were I an advanced and far superior race, I wouldn't even touch Earth's atmosphere with a 100-foot pole. Or I'd blow it out of the universe and be done with it. Depends on what kind of race I'd be.

maneth
August 21st, 2015, 10:24 AM
The arrogance of the Tollan annoys me, but I like this episode anyway.

jelgate
August 21st, 2015, 12:12 PM
Its not really arrogance. More of a fact. We are primitive compared to the Tollians

garhkal
August 22nd, 2015, 01:39 AM
The arrogance of the Tollan annoys me, but I like this episode anyway.

That arrogance was the same the Puritans and such had when they encountered the Native Americans.. thinking them savages who just needed guidance.

jelgate
August 22nd, 2015, 07:46 AM
That arrogance was the same the Puritans and such had when they encountered the Native Americans.. thinking them savages who just needed guidance.
No it wasn't. The Tollians didn't try to invade us or convert us to their ways

garhkal
August 22nd, 2015, 09:49 PM
OK similar then..

jelgate
August 22nd, 2015, 09:58 PM
They are nothing alike. The analogy makes no sense

maneth
August 23rd, 2015, 01:00 AM
The Tollans thought humans were too primitive to deal with their scientific knowledge and technology safely. An understandable point of view, I suppose.

jckfan55
August 23rd, 2015, 12:28 PM
Given what happened the last time they gave technology to someone, their policy is kind of understandable.
Omack (sp.) has zero people skills, but Narim is kind of sweet.

garhkal
August 23rd, 2015, 11:18 PM
The Tollans thought humans were too primitive to deal with their scientific knowledge and technology safely. An understandable point of view, I suppose.

And its that primitiveness that makes them similar to how we were towards the native Americans. That is why i made that that analogy.

jelgate
August 24th, 2015, 07:55 AM
Its a poor analogy. Europeans interfered considerably with Native American to make them what they thought better. The Tollans wanted nothing to do with us

Anja
September 5th, 2015, 07:52 AM
Adorable cat - very well trained.
I still don't understand Schroedinger's theoretical experiment - although I'm German just like him. :(

Anja

Falcon Horus
September 6th, 2015, 01:49 AM
Schrödinger's Cat Paradox explained:




A cat is placed in a steel box along with a Geiger counter, a vial of poison, a hammer, and a radioactive substance. When the radioactive substance decays, the Geiger detects it and triggers the hammer to release the poison, which subsequently kills the cat. The radioactive decay is a random process, and there is no way to predict when it will happen. Physicists say the atom exists in a state known as a superposition—both decayed and not decayed at the same time.

Until the box is opened, an observer doesn't know whether the cat is alive or dead—because the cat's fate is intrinsically tied to whether or not the atom has decayed and the cat would, as Schrödinger put it, be "living and dead ... in equal parts" until it is observed.

Source: The Physics Behind Schrödinger's Cat Paradox (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/08/130812-physics-schrodinger-erwin-google-doodle-cat-paradox-science/)

Anja
September 6th, 2015, 06:15 AM
Thanks a lot, Falcon, I've read that text and several others - still do not understand. But I can live with it!!!:mckay:

Falcon Horus
November 18th, 2017, 10:38 AM
This episode is interesting, and it does manage to hold my attention for most of the time.
And it's a nice reversal of being the more technological advanced one (relatively speaking anyway).

They rescue people who do not want to be rescued in the first place, and on top of that, have no interest in sharing more about themselves beyond who they are and what their planet is called, Tollan. Or was called, since it turns into a lavafield.

Omac has his reasons to object to sharing, and Narim is head over heels so he's sharing in a different department. Carter's first love interest that doesn't want to kill her (or she him). Not particularly fond of the love interests -- they generally feel like giant clichés in my opinion.

Much love for Shrodinger though. However, that cat was way too docile -- his handlers probably gave him something before they put him in any of the scenes. :p Also, way too heavy for a cat (it sure as hell wasn't the fur that made him look poofy).

Colonel Maybourne -- the beginnings of a beautiful pain-in-Jack's-Mik'ta -- comes in and wants to take the Tollan away so he can squeeze them for tech-information. Like they would have been able to contain them anyway, considering they can walk through walls (very carefully).

And SG1 saves the day -- well, Daniel and Teal'c save the day cause they're the only ones who can't get courtmartialed.

All in all, not a bad episode, but not really ranking it too high in my list of favorites in season 1.

How would you rate SG-1's "Enigma"?

Excellent
Good
Fair
Poor
Terrible

Falcon Horus
November 18th, 2017, 04:48 PM
Here I am with the 3-episode quiz (https://goo.gl/forms/n2ihrJCAG5F4PcBE3) and the jigsaw puzzle for Enigma (https://www.jigidi.com/solve.php?id=VDDWTS6P).

jelgate
November 24th, 2017, 05:05 PM
This is one of my favorite episodes of S1. I don't find the Tollans arrogant like other fans. They are just being blunt. We are primitive. I think the episode is to show the reverse as it's the first time we see a race with technology more advanced than us. As later SG1 episodes show, their is a good reason we don't give advanced technology. Earth did the same. So I understand why the Tollans act the way they do. As FH points out, this is the first time Maybourne shows up so that is hilarious to see us wiggle. I do gripe a little at how Daniel gets away with technically committing treason. I could care less about Carter and her stalker.

Perfect score on quiz because I'm perfect. I got lucky on the planet designation. I'm terrible at those.

EDIT: 400 error on the puzzle link FH

Falcon Horus
November 25th, 2017, 10:56 AM
EDIT: 400 error on the puzzle link FH

Fixed the link. ;)

jelgate
November 25th, 2017, 02:39 PM
7 minutes and 32 seconds

Seaboe Muffinchucker
November 27th, 2017, 08:38 AM
Treason is a very specific crime in the U.S.. Daniel does not commit treason, unless you're saying that the Tollan are enemies of the U.S.


18 U.S. Code § 2381 - Treason: Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

Treason is a word much too lightly used in the Stargate universe.

Seaboe

aretood2
November 28th, 2017, 05:23 PM
8 minutes and 31 seconds.


Treason is a very specific crime in the U.S.. Daniel does not commit treason, unless you're saying that the Tollan are enemies of the U.S.



Treason is a word much too lightly used in the Stargate universe.

Seaboe

So the only way for it to be treason would be if the Tollan were declared enemies?

Seaboe Muffinchucker
November 29th, 2017, 07:31 AM
Basically. Treason is a very rare charge. In the real world, not even Timothy McVeigh (http://www.cnn.com/US/9706/02/charges/) was charged with treason, and he directly attacked the government, by blowing up a government building and killing a number of people (including small children).

Seaboe

Falcon Horus
November 29th, 2017, 02:15 PM
He attacked a government building, which is not the same as colluding with the "enemy"... What McVeigh did wasn't treason, that was domestic terrorism.

**

Jigsaw time: 8 minutes and 48 seconds

Seaboe Muffinchucker
December 4th, 2017, 09:25 AM
Well, he bombed a government building, which could've been considered levying war against the U.S.

In general, if there is another available charge (domestic terrorism) that will be used instead of treason.

(I don't think Maybourne committed treason, either, FWIW).

Seaboe

aretood2
December 4th, 2017, 05:27 PM
Well, he bombed a government building, which could've been considered levying war against the U.S.

In general, if there is another available charge (domestic terrorism) that will be used instead of treason.

(I don't think Maybourne committed treason, either, FWIW).

Seaboe

I can't remember the details but his dealings with the Trust surely crossed the line to treason at some point. I mean, he started dealing with the Russians with classified intel.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
December 5th, 2017, 07:19 AM
But were the Russians enemies of the U.S. at that point? Was the Trust advocating the overthrow of the government so as to make them enemies of the U.S.?

Seaboe

BethHG
June 12th, 2018, 08:35 PM
10:40 13/15

This was a good episode.

The Tollan were very arrogant, understandably so, but still. Omac could have used some classes on social graces. Narim fell in love at first sight-- I do believe that Carter was shocked by it...and intrigued. I love that we got to see Lya from the Nox again.

Colonel Maybourne had his first appearance. I don't think that he made a good first impression on the team.;)

Falcon Horus
June 13th, 2018, 04:53 AM
Colonel Maybourne had his first appearance. I don't think that he made a good first impression on the team.;)

I doubt any of his impressions count as good... :p

BethHG
June 13th, 2018, 12:05 PM
I doubt any of his impressions count as good... :p


True that

jelgate
June 13th, 2018, 01:03 PM
Their were times when he was more of an ally than antagonist

BethHG
June 13th, 2018, 07:11 PM
If I remember correctly, I always found him annoying.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
June 14th, 2018, 07:33 AM
What I liked about early Maybourne (as opposed to other military villains) is that while he was a jerk, he really did have good goals. He just wasn't so nice about how he intended to achieve them.

Seaboe

Falcon Horus
June 14th, 2018, 11:50 AM
He's the bad guy doing good on the side?

jelgate
June 14th, 2018, 01:42 PM
What Seaboe is saying is yes he is an antagonist, Maybourne ultimately does what he does to protect his country. In contrast to Cool Simmons who was a greedy mikta

Seaboe Muffinchucker
June 15th, 2018, 07:31 AM
Exactly.

Seaboe

BethHG
June 15th, 2018, 07:56 AM
What I liked about early Maybourne (as opposed to other military villains) is that while he was a jerk, he really did have good goals. He just wasn't so nice about how he intended to achieve them.

Seaboe


I can agree with this.:).

Platschu
August 21st, 2018, 12:28 PM
Error:

1. Maybourne gave an order to fire, so the Nox Lya made the Tollans disappear, the chevron 2 and 3 went off as well in the background.
http://csillagkapu.hu/kep.php?kep=http://kepek.csillagkapu.hu/hiba/1x16/01.jpg
http://csillagkapu.hu/kep.php?kep=http://kepek.csillagkapu.hu/hiba/1x16/02.jpg

Falcon Horus
August 21st, 2018, 03:40 PM
Error:

1. Maybourne gave an order to fire, so the Nox Lya made the Tollans disappear, the chevron 2 and 3 went off as well in the background.

Woops, hidden from view. :p

Platschu
August 21st, 2018, 04:03 PM
The blue lights are also missing from the background. Maybe that one shows up only when the closed Iris reflects it back or something.

hedwig
August 21st, 2018, 04:21 PM
puzzle 12:48

Who Knows
September 3rd, 2018, 10:58 PM
14.18. Now I know why I missed this one.

Spimman
December 3rd, 2018, 10:56 AM
Working my way back through Stargate, haven't watched much\any since SG-1. I wasn't expecting to come across the NID so early on in the series but I like to see some long term enemies forming.

lunasera
December 3rd, 2018, 11:47 AM
Maybourne is an opportunist, he may also be a patriot, but I believe he would put himself first so that may be questionable. I find his character enjoyable though, especially after he's rogue.

Falcon Horus
December 3rd, 2018, 12:46 PM
Maybourne is an opportunist, he may also be a patriot, but I believe he would put himself first so that may be questionable. I find his character enjoyable though, especially after he's rogue.

I think he's the kind of guy who'll put himself first, and whomever can give him the best odds, that's who he'll be working for next.