Portrayal of the Force

[SaberBlade]

I was watching Empire again, and it got to the scene with Yoda raising the X-Wing out of the swamp, and it got me wondering about how the other movies, the Clone Wars series and even the games, never explored the Force or even came close to showing the Force as anything like Yoda made it out to be.

Episode III sort of came close, depending on how you look at it, with the conception of Anakin, and the Force killing Padme in order to give Luke/Leia more power (her midichlorians abandoned ship faster than people on the Titanic) but ultimately, the Force was used for faster fights, mind tricks and from time to time, Vader choking people. It just never lived up to how Yoda described it in Empire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-zD-RohzNY#t=1m0s

Great performance by Frank Oz, wonderful music by John Williams and an excellent piece of writing by George Lucas, but do you really think that the Force was as great as it seems to be? That scene with Yoda is one of the few moments out of any movie that really seems inspiring.

[Montoya]

The only explanation I can come up with is one of two thing:

1) Yoda was a senile old man and din't know what the heck he was talking about (unlikely).

2) It was Yoda's unique view of the Force (what we saw in Empire) that gave him (and furthermore his students, including Luke) the power he is known for.
Whilst others, like the Sith, saw it as a method of obtaining power and control,
while the Jedi thought it a tool to keep justice and peace throughout the galaxy.
This is of course a very very broad explanation of their belief systems but I wont go into that in depth in this thread.
Plus, even though I don't like too, you have to take into account that Lucas didn't even know jack all about the Force when he shot Empire. He kind of made the Force into what he thought we wanted it to be over time, which is why it ended up as it is in Revenge.
IMO of course.

[P-90_177]

Yeah that was one thing that was so different in the prequel trilogy. In the original 3 the force was depicted as this special and mystical thing that even a master had to really concentrate to control. Not like in episodes 1 to 3 where you see them all doing just about anything with ease.

[SaberBlade]

Plus, even though I don't like too, you have to take into account that Lucas didn't even know jack all about the Force when he shot Empire. He kind of made the Force into what he thought we wanted it to be over time, which is why it ended up as it is in Revenge.
IMO of course.

The problem with "Lucas didn't know jack all about the Force when he shot Empire" is that he knew all about it when he shot I, II and III, but instead of focusing on the mystical side of the Force, the side that gives a Jedi his power, his foresight, the thing that makes people stand back and think "wow, a Jedi" it was turned into more mind tricks, fast (yet impressive) lightsaber fights and the same old stuff we've seen from VI.

I won't complain about midicholorians, because it adds a scientific explanation for the Force which helps keep real life bible thumpers off his case about creating a mystical force and writing his own version of Jesus which works wonders because these are the same people who still complain about Harry Potter being a bad influence on kids because of magic.

Yeah that was one thing that was so different in the prequel trilogy. In the original 3 the force was depicted as this special and mystical thing that even a master had to really concentrate to control. Not like in episodes 1 to 3 where you see them all doing just about anything with ease.

I agree. The Force was more about being able to move faster, jump higher, fight with more skill and even fly better. You can even cheat with it. Qui Gon was definitely underused because he kept talking about the Living Force, and we could have learnt more about the Force being more than a party trick if his Force Ghost had returned.

Maybe if the movies had been more like the games, well at least like The Force Unleashed. You sort of got an idea of just how powerful the Force really was, not by the fights or the fancy combos, but things like pulling a Star Destroyer out of orbit. Yeah it seems a bit much, but the best Yoda did was in Empire. His fight scenes were good, but I think that's because it was just Yoda but nothing ever came of "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine". Well I can imagine quite a bit and it seemed that they didn't even try bothering with it.

[Giantevilhead]

I would say that Kreia's interpretation of the Force from KotoR 2 seems to be similar to Yoda's, although it's much more cynical and sinister.

[Ouroboros]

I was watching Empire again, and it got to the scene with Yoda raising the X-Wing out of the swamp, and it got me wondering about how the other movies, the Clone Wars series and even the games, never explored the Force or even came close to showing the Force as anything like Yoda made it out to be.

Episode III sort of came close, depending on how you look at it, with the conception of Anakin, and the Force killing Padme in order to give Luke/Leia more power (her midichlorians abandoned ship faster than people on the Titanic) but ultimately, the Force was used for faster fights, mind tricks and from time to time, Vader choking people. It just never lived up to how Yoda described it in Empire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-zD-RohzNY#t=1m0s

Great performance by Frank Oz, wonderful music by John Williams and an excellent piece of writing by George Lucas, but do you really think that the Force was as great as it seems to be? That scene with Yoda is one of the few moments out of any movie that really seems inspiring.

You can see the bad direction the whole force idea took in Star Wars in no better place than Yoda himself. Yoda in the original movies was this ancient dignified figure of wisdom who lived in quiet isolation in his little hut in the swamp. He didn't seem like much, you even got the sense that he might not be long for this world, that maybe once Luke finished his training that would be it for him to. At the same time though you knew that he was incredibly powerful. You just knew.

Then in the prequels he's reduced to a bouncing CGI ping pong ball that talks funny.

The force itself took a similar direction. Once this vast yet subtle and largely hidden force that permeated the entire universe on every level. It was likewise reduced to a means through which extras in makeup can do lots of stupid flips and twirls while miraculously not getting shot, oh and you can detect it's presence with a blood sampling machine that fits in your pocket.

[Giantevilhead]

KotoR 2's interpretation of the Force *huge spoilers if you haven't played the game*:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_MmJO0OwLw

[Replicator Todd]

I've always liked how the Force was portrayed in the Original Trilogy and the EU surrounding it. I didn't like how the Force was used as weapons throughout the prequel trilogy and the CW cartoon. I don't full understand TFU as I found hard to believe no one has used the Force like Galen Marek has.

EDIT: Actually, now that I think about it more and more the "prophecy" presented in the Prequels make sense. The Force wasn't meant to be used the way it was being used throughout the prequels. I like to think that Anakin Skywalker's purpose bringing balance to the Force wasn't to nessecarily to even out the Jedi and Sith powers, but to return the Force to the state it was originally intended to be used. Or something like that.

[SaberBlade]

I'm not sure that Vader balancing the force could mean returning it to a state of non WMD'ness. You do have a valid point because Yoda and Obi spent their time mostly meditating and trying to become with the Force, while the Emperor spent most of his time predicting the future (or he was lying his ass off about all the things he had foreseen). Vader didn't get the memo as he was choking people to death and beating the crap out of Luke using parts of Cloud City

[Replicator Todd]

I'm not sure that Vader balancing the force could mean returning it to a state of non WMD'ness. You do have a valid point because Yoda and Obi spent their time mostly meditating and trying to become with the Force, while the Emperor spent most of his time predicting the future (or he was lying his ass off about all the things he had foreseen). Vader didn't get the memo as he was choking people to death and beating the crap out of Luke using parts of Cloud City

Hehe, sometimes I was unsure about Vader/Anakin being the one to "Bring Balance." But he did kill off a lot of Jedi to balance things out!

[SaberBlade]

Hehe, sometimes I was unsure about Vader/Anakin being the one to "Bring Balance." But he did kill off a lot of Jedi to balance things out!

And yet, by the end of the RotJ is was unbalanced again because there was only 1 Jedi, and no Sith. All that good work for nothing.

[morbosfist]

That's the thing about prophecies. They will almost certainly come true, but they do tend to leave out the "how you get there" bits.

[Giantevilhead]

But Anakin didn't really bring balance to the Force since the Expanded Universe is canon and the Emperor had a clone and he threw around Force storms that could destroy entire fleets of ships.

[SaberBlade]

It really depends what "bring balance to the force" means. He may have, he may not have, it was never explained but ending everything with two sith and two jedi (by the time yoda died) may count.

As for the clones, I don't believe that would count as it never happened with the movies. Just like there is no Mara Jade, or any other dark force user (despite what happens in games and movies).

[Giantevilhead]

Lucas was the one who made the EU canon and Palpatine's clone was around 6 years before he even began making the prequels.

As for the whole "balance to the Force" idea never being clearly defined, that's just bad writing. They didn't even say how the Force was "unbalanced" in the first place.