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GateWorld
October 25th, 2010, 03:03 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/s2/209.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/graphics/209.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">UNIVERSE SEASON TWO</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/s2/209.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">VISITATION</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 209</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
Members of the crew left behind in another galaxy make a shocking return to <I>Destiny</I>, while Chloe deals with the inevitable consequences of her transformation.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/s2/209.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Galileo_Galilee
November 23rd, 2010, 07:01 PM
Well, I guess they didn't have her baby so the only other answers I can think of is that it was the Destiny.

It did prove that there are powerful beings still there with the obelisks.

Will it have something to do with the big bad?

It looks like the seasons going to end with a cliff hanger. I hope they will have a third to be able to resolve it.

Pharaoh Atem
November 23rd, 2010, 07:02 PM
Awesome ep so glad we got to see this story again. Loved the ending

10/10

TheRandomOne
November 23rd, 2010, 07:02 PM
Kane was alive when the white light showed up. So did Greer kill the guy ?

WindowsME
November 23rd, 2010, 07:03 PM
My guess is that Caine will remain alive.

Pharaoh Atem
November 23rd, 2010, 07:03 PM
It looks like the seasons going to end with a cliff hanger. I hope they will have a third to be able to resolve it.
It's the mid season finalie

ns2
November 23rd, 2010, 07:04 PM
Best Greer moments

majorsal
November 23rd, 2010, 07:04 PM
so if someone hasn't seen the ep, but wants to know what happened, can someone post what happened in more than one-off sentences?

SSJPabs
November 23rd, 2010, 07:05 PM
Was Kane this annoying in Faith?

Pharaoh Atem
November 23rd, 2010, 07:06 PM
so if someone hasn't seen the ep, but wants to know what happened, can someone post what happened in more than one-off sentences?

The people from
The season 1 ep faith return unexpectedly and we learn of their fate on the planet. Plus Chloe is waiting for the next phase of her transformation

Pharaoh Atem
November 23rd, 2010, 07:07 PM
Was Kane this annoying in Faith?


He wasn't annoying on this ep

Replicator Todd
November 23rd, 2010, 07:08 PM
Interesting episode, a step down from the past three episodes but the nevertheless it was a nice episode. I really saw a different side of Greer this episode.

General Jumper One
November 23rd, 2010, 07:09 PM
my guess is Caine lives

Pharaoh Atem
November 23rd, 2010, 07:11 PM
my guess is Caine lives

Let's hope so

ns2
November 23rd, 2010, 07:11 PM
Was Kane this annoying in Faith?

yes glad I'm not the only one who realized it

sometimes I like him but mot time I was annoyed

morbosfist
November 23rd, 2010, 07:12 PM
One out of seven or so. Not bad odds for dead people.

jelgate
November 23rd, 2010, 07:12 PM
This is an interesting episode. I think I liked the B story more then the A story. Its not the A one was bad its just that I liked Chloe coming to the very real possibility she would be dead soon and her saying goodbye to all her friends on Destiny. I think it showed an insight to how Chloe has changed since Air and how much she cared for the various people on Destiny.

I actually like Caine in Faith but his over the top of preaching his beliefs got annoying. Its not that I have anything against people of other beliefs but I just don't like whatever religion you are (thought technically not a religion this includes atheism) preaching down other people's throats. Besides that I like the impossible mystery of what happened to Caine and the others. And even though nothing was solved the impossibility mystery was interesting. Although the ending was ambigous and had me confused. It told us nothing about how Caine and the others got to Destiny.

The little TJ scenes were shown as she adjusts to the fate of her child

Kanten
November 23rd, 2010, 07:16 PM
BAG fans are gonna be pissed.

Replicator Todd
November 23rd, 2010, 07:17 PM
This is an interesting episode. I think I liked the B story more then the A story. Its not the A one was bad its just that I liked Chloe coming to the very real possibility she would be dead soon and her saying goodbye to all her friends on Destiny. I think it showed an insight to how Chloe has changed since Air and how much she cared for the various people on Destiny.


Agreed, I liked what was going on with Chloe far more than anything else.

jelgate
November 23rd, 2010, 07:17 PM
BAG fans are gonna be pissed.

BAG transcends the Faith aliens

Derocalypse
November 23rd, 2010, 07:17 PM
This was an alright episode for me. Some cool parts and some boring parts.

Pharaoh Atem
November 23rd, 2010, 07:18 PM
BAG fans are gonna be pissed.

Nah I'm not. Everyones dies including Jesus

SSJPabs
November 23rd, 2010, 07:21 PM
Nah I'm not. Everyones dies including JesusBAG was an obelisk aliens sleeper agent. He'll be back.

major davis
November 23rd, 2010, 07:29 PM
BAG transcends the Faith aliens

BAG IS the reason they got back to Destiny.. no need to explain. :p

the fifth man
November 23rd, 2010, 07:30 PM
Sad that all of them died. Good episode though.

Selene1212
November 23rd, 2010, 07:36 PM
BAG fans are gonna be pissed.At least he went out with acknowledgement by Rush, "I'm sure Mr Chin once had a full head of hair..." (I'm paraphrasing, don't have actual quote.)

AndSoItBegins
November 23rd, 2010, 07:37 PM
TI actually like Caine in Faith but his over the top of preaching his beliefs got annoying.

I LOVED Caine in this episode because despite all of his preaching and assurances about faith we saw that all he had was doubt and fear. Even in the end when everyone else was dead on that shuttle he admits that he doesn't want to die. Typically a person who is absolute certain of their religious beliefs would not fear death under those harsh circumstances. The character would be annoying f didn't have any of these doubts.

By the way he has convinced himself that he is a shadow of who he once was when in fact I'm guessing, biologically and spiritually speaking, he is absolutely the same because the alien beings saved him in the nick of time.

majorsal
November 23rd, 2010, 07:38 PM
Sad that all of them died. Good episode though.

why did they all die? where they already dead when they got back to the ship? if so, what killed them again? who killed them?

0datdude0
November 23rd, 2010, 07:40 PM
Sooo did he die? I know he thought he was already dead but it looked like the aliens got there just in time.

Anyway it was nice of these people to fix up the shuttle send those people back and not leave a note . . . .

Pharaoh Atem
November 23rd, 2010, 07:41 PM
why did they all die? where they already dead when they got back to the ship? if so, what killed them again? who killed them?

1 died from a tree falling on her.
5 died from freezing to death.
1 we're not sure what his fate was.

the aliens brought them back to life to explain to the crew what happen on the planet and then their all slowly started to die from the same fates on the planet.

majorsal
November 23rd, 2010, 07:43 PM
1 died from a tree falling on her.
5 died from freezing to death.
1 we're not sure what his fate was.

the aliens brought them back to life to explain to the crew what happen on the planet and then their all slowly started to die from the same fates on the planet.

thank you for answering :), but UHG, that's horrible! :(

hedwig
November 23rd, 2010, 07:43 PM
why did they all die? where they already dead when they got back to the ship? if so, what killed them again? who killed them?

Supposedly they all died on the planet they stayed on in Faith, with the possible exception of Caine. They were somehow reanimated and when they got back to Destiny, they started dying again one by one. Wray hypnotized Caine and one of the other men and found out some of the things that had happened while they were still on the planet and how each of them had actually died. One was hit by a falling tree; the rest pretty much froze to death. Caine was the last one still alive and begged to be helped survive, at which point there was a bright light, ... and next thing he knew he was on the shuttle next to Destiny.

And dagnabit, I was actually in tears during that last scene between Caine and TJ.:( :)

the fifth man
November 23rd, 2010, 07:44 PM
If these aliens are so powerful, I don't see why they couldn't fully restore all of those people. And not just temporarily.

Pharaoh Atem
November 23rd, 2010, 07:47 PM
If these aliens are so powerful, I don't see why they couldn't fully restore all of those people. And not just temporarily.
why should they? what makes these people so speical? the anicents don't give a hoot why should the super powerful aliens. we're ants to them

majorsal
November 23rd, 2010, 07:47 PM
Supposedly they all died on the planet they stayed on in Faith, with the possible exception of Caine. They were somehow reanimated and when they got back to Destiny, they started dying again one by one. Wray hypnotized Caine and one of the other men and found out some of the things that had happened while they were still on the planet and how each of them had actually died. One was hit by a falling tree; the rest pretty much froze to death. Caine was the last one still alive and begged to be helped survive, at which point there was a bright light, ... and next thing he knew he was on the shuttle next to Destiny.

And dagnabit, I was actually in tears during that last scene between Caine and TJ.:( :)

but what was the 'purpose' of bringing them all back (and back to life), only to have them all die again?

if the aliens could reanimate them, why let them die again?

Ekras
November 23rd, 2010, 07:49 PM
Maybe they assumed they would have the technology to save them? The Ancients were way ahead of us and based on the ship, could have thought we were them.

They may have thought the shuttle crashed and the crew were stranded and died waiting for rescue or something... so they fixed the ship and sent the crew back as best they could, assuming we could fix them the rest of the way.

hedwig
November 23rd, 2010, 07:49 PM
but what was the 'purpose' of bringing them all back (and back to life), only to have them all die again?

if the aliens could reanimate them, why let them die again?

I'm wondering this too.

However, it could maybe be to bring back a completely repaired, like brand shiny new shuttle? For future use by the Destiny crew. Apparently they repaired everything on it, and it was like it had never even been used.

And (p.s.) why not just watch the episode? :D

0datdude0
November 23rd, 2010, 07:53 PM
Let them say good buy get a decent meal and die among there people? An once of kindness. . . or the new shuttle loaded with plot devices for them to abuse ?

Some how I wonder if the Ancients didn't built a better destiny and when we get tot he end they will be sitting there waiting to see if the hairless monkeys they left on earth could make it this far with that old ship they forgot about.

ns2
November 23rd, 2010, 07:53 PM
maybe they brought them back for final goodbye

morbosfist
November 23rd, 2010, 07:54 PM
The fact that they died is probably toying with the metaphysical idea that though these aliens could repair and restore the human body in every detail, they couldn't restore the soul.

Quallen
November 23rd, 2010, 07:56 PM
If these aliens are so powerful, I don't see why they couldn't fully restore all of those people. And not just temporarily.

I'm reminded of Lorien from B5: "I cannot create life but I can breathe on the remaining embers"

Selene1212
November 23rd, 2010, 07:58 PM
My first thought was replicators, being that the shuttle was repared, but apparently I was wrong...

the fifth man
November 23rd, 2010, 07:58 PM
I'm reminded of Lorien from B5: "I cannot create life but I can breathe on the remaining embers"

Interesting quote.

Briangate78
November 23rd, 2010, 08:02 PM
Slow episode but interesting. Not the best of the season but was interesting. I think the Chloe story is getting really dragged out, and hopefully things start happening a little quicker. Interesting how the returning people from the planet died in the order they orginally were killed, Final Destination anyone? Also kinda of reminded me of This mortal Coil, sorry Major Davis, I had to. :p So it leaves us with a WTH was that? But after 15 Seasons of Stargate we've seen things that cannot be explained or find some race with a greater power, lol. Oh wait, it felt like Stargate? How about that!

So would give this episoode a 8/10 or B.

So next week, the mid-season finale, looks like a good one!

AndSoItBegins
November 23rd, 2010, 08:07 PM
I'm reminded of Lorien from B5: "I cannot create life but I can breathe on the remaining embers"

Absolutely! Loved Lorien btw.

Utitan
November 23rd, 2010, 08:12 PM
I might be thinking too much into it but at one point He said he remembered dieing, but the cut away scene shows the light showing up with him hanging on. Then, we don't see him die on the ship.. Perhaps they were right to begin with, they took him alive and planted a trojan, used the rest to keep his memory from questioning too much. I dont know.. Personally I think he's dead.. Which for me is a good thing he gets on my nerves.. Creeps me out just like he does Young.

I could see this as being benevolent, but if the aliens were altruistic they could just resurrected them at the planet with shelter. I'm taking this as more of a warning. Keep your junk and your people off our planet. We don't want any trace of them here. I haven't decided for myself whether or not we will get to more about them in the future..

On a different note. could it be.....That the pattern/point of destiny's mission will tell us that our universe is contained in an ascended, higher plane, etc.. version of a zpm?? One which you can manipulate the contained universe.. ala planet building, resurrection, duplicating a shuttle from the factory, all inserted code at the source.

major davis
November 23rd, 2010, 08:19 PM
Slow episode but interesting. Not the best of the season but was interesting. I think the Chloe story is getting really dragged out, and hopefully things start happening a little quicker. Interesting how the returning people from the planet died in the order they orginally were killed, Final Destination anyone? Also kinda of reminded me of This mortal Coil, sorry Major Davis, I had to. :p So it leaves us with a WTH was that? But after 15 Seasons of Stargate we've seen things that cannot be explained or find some race with a greater power, lol. Oh wait, it felt like Stargate? How about that!

So would give this episoode a 8/10 or B.

So next week, the mid-season finale, looks like a good one!

LOL... and once the Chloe vids started playing I thought to myself "Brians gonna compare this to the Seed" :p

jelgate
November 23rd, 2010, 08:24 PM
LOL... and once the Chloe vids started playing I thought to myself "Brians gonna compare this to the Seed" :p

He would probably compare it Letters from Pegasus.:P

Carter's Boy
November 23rd, 2010, 08:25 PM
another great ep. saw a lot of new sides to some of the crew, im liking Greer as the noble bad -ass, and chloe's recording to scott *tears* ( she kinda told scott eli has a man crush on him, lol)

been wanting a 'normal' day on Destiny

wow the Dome repair happened super fast...wish they had left it for a ball court or something

so an i right in assuming the they 'aliens' only repaired the humans from what they died from on the planet... they repaired the shuttle but it wasnt alive.

is this showing that there is a Destiny and that fate is fate - like in the movie time machine - you'll die no matter what if u were supposed to no matter if u change it?

major davis
November 23rd, 2010, 08:28 PM
He would probably compare it Letters from Pegasus.:P

My dream is when Extinction and Revolution come out.. Brian will compare a certain segment to SGU. :p

Replicator Todd
November 23rd, 2010, 08:31 PM
So next week, the mid-season finale, looks like a good one!

Yes it does! Looks very exciting!

Briangate78
November 23rd, 2010, 08:34 PM
LOL... and once the Chloe vids started playing I thought to myself "Brians gonna compare this to the Seed" :p


He would probably compare it Letters from Pegasus.:P

Yup. :p

majorsal
November 23rd, 2010, 08:35 PM
keep picking on brian, and he won't come over here and tell you guys ratings news. :p

major davis
November 23rd, 2010, 08:35 PM
Yup. :p

Really? I immediately thought of the seed. :p

major davis
November 23rd, 2010, 08:37 PM
keep picking on brian, and he won't come over here and tell you guys ratings news. :p

Brian and I are buds... IM just messing with him... Right Brian? ;) :cameron:

Zatnikitelman
November 23rd, 2010, 08:37 PM
Overall, I feel this was a decent episode, but its airing order sucks IMHO. I have no problems with the script outright, but given the arc of the past two episodes, I wanted this episode (whatever the overall plot) to have more Eli and Rush post-Ginn/Mandy. I wanted to see Eli struggling with his lack of closure, Rush struggling with killing Simeon, both of them maybe a tad irritated at the other because Rush was actually kissing Ginn, and [some reason Rush could be irritated at eli (it's too late to think right now)], and something with the rest of the Lucians and Homeworld Security.

Briangate78
November 23rd, 2010, 08:38 PM
keep picking on brian, and he won't come over here and tell you guys ratings news. :p

LOL, they have MediaSavant, She'll post the ratings tomorrow even if I were gone forever tomorrow. :p


Really? I immediately thought of the seed. :p

It's interesting, I think I'm the only one who actually liked this ep, although the first half was meh. But after what happened to the crew from the planet it became very interesting.

hedwig
November 23rd, 2010, 08:39 PM
LOL... and once the Chloe vids started playing I thought to myself "Brians gonna compare this to the Seed" :p

So he's gonna think Chloe is turning into a wraith hive ship? :D

major davis
November 23rd, 2010, 08:40 PM
LOL, they have MediaSavant, She'll post the ratings tomorrow even if I were gone forever tomorrow. :p

It's interesting, I think I'm the only one who actually liked this ep, although the first half was meh. But after what happened to the crew from the planet it became very interesting.


Ya thats my complaint really... the first half was a bunch of random scenes stitched together IMO..... The second half was awesome. The premise though was mind blowing. Very strange. :)

hedwig
November 23rd, 2010, 08:41 PM
LOL, they have MediaSavant, She'll post the ratings tomorrow even if I were gone forever tomorrow. :p



It's interesting, I think I'm the only one who actually liked this ep, although the first half was meh. But after what happened to the crew from the planet it became very interesting.

I liked it. I was actually in tears during the TJ/Caine bit near the end when they were talking and watching the stars.

major davis
November 23rd, 2010, 08:41 PM
So he's gonna think Chloe is turning into a wraith hive ship? :D

CRAP.. I meant the Shrine.. my bad lol.. though the seed does also work. ;)

wingsabre
November 23rd, 2010, 08:41 PM
Balding Asian Guy with no Lines is Back!!!

major davis
November 23rd, 2010, 08:43 PM
Balding Asian Guy with no Lines is Back!!!

Even better yet he was refrenced by Rush. :p

Briangate78
November 23rd, 2010, 08:44 PM
So he's gonna think Chloe is turning into a wraith hive ship? :D

LOL, that would be hilarious.


Ya thats my complaint really... the first half was a bunch of random scenes stitched together IMO..... The second half was awesome. The premise though was mind blowing. Very strange. :)

Yeah, it really made you think. But it felt like Stargate, because we have seen these things happen to SG-1 and the SGA team and gets explained later. But I like that, it keeps the adventure and mystery part of the show alive.


I liked it. I was actually in tears during the TJ/Caine bit near the end when they were talking and watching the stars.

The music was also good, and it was a touching scene.

majorsal
November 23rd, 2010, 08:45 PM
LOL, they have MediaSavant, She'll post the ratings tomorrow even if I were gone forever tomorrow. :p

yeah, but you're the only one that talks to others, not down to them. so don't leave! :p

major davis
November 23rd, 2010, 08:46 PM
LOL, that would be hilarious.



Yeah, it really made you think. But it felt like Stargate, because we have seen these things happen to SG-1 and the SGA team and gets explained later. But I like that, it keeps the adventure and mystery part of the show alive.



The music was also good, and it was a touching scene.

Ya.. most always the setup does pay off.... but that scene with Greer and Chloe... man..... kinda powerful eh? Surprised its not getting more buzz :S

jelgate
November 23rd, 2010, 08:47 PM
Ya.. most always the setup does pay off.... but that scene with Greer and Chloe... man..... kinda powerful eh? Surprised its not getting more buzz :S

Thats due to the Chloe Effect. A predisposition to hate all things Chloe.

Or maybe because its only one scene. I think its the former instead of the latter.

hedwig
November 23rd, 2010, 08:49 PM
Thats due to the Chloe Effect. A predisposition to hate all things Chloe.

Or maybe because its only one scene. I think its the former instead of the latter.

I was impressed with that scene. Both Chloe and Greer were very good. And then later when Scott came to see Chloe and she ordered him to leave.

I'm wondering if we'll have any kind of scene with Chloe's mother later down the road when she finds out what happened/is happening to her daughter.

vszulc
November 23rd, 2010, 08:52 PM
If these aliens are so powerful, I don't see why they couldn't fully restore all of those people. And not just temporarily.

Hmm, aliens give them a new shuttle, but people come back from the dead only to die again...

I thought long and hard about it, and there's only one explanation.

The aliens are trolling them! Destiny has inadvertently stumbled over the cosmic version of 4chan.

Eli is hopefully changing everybodys Facebook passwords as we speak. And I wouldn't ride a single lightyear in that shuttle. It probably has "COME INSIDE KIDS! FREE CANDY!!" written in all known alien languages on the side of it.

Replicator Todd
November 23rd, 2010, 09:04 PM
keep picking on brian, and he won't come over here and tell you guys ratings news. :p

Brian is too epic to be picked on. :p

Pharaoh Atem
November 23rd, 2010, 09:04 PM
Balding Asian Guy with no Lines is Back!!!

he's a background performer there not allowed lines.

Replicator Todd
November 23rd, 2010, 09:05 PM
My first thought was replicators, being that the shuttle was repared, but apparently I was wrong...

Oh I would of loved that! I've been dying to see those buggers for a least an episode of Stargate again.

senilegreen
November 23rd, 2010, 09:13 PM
This was an entertaining enough episode for me to not give it too low of a rating, yet I'm now even more cautious about SGU than I was at the end of last season.

As I think I mentioned last week, I wonder if the writers haven't jumped the shark on this series.

With the advent of the "pattern"/"message" in the CMB, the supposedly big picture mission of Destiny, the Faith planet, etc. SGU touches more explicitly on religious topics than previous SG productions (though SG-1 did on occasion tackle religious ideas, though not deeply.)

One problem is that the writers have introduced not just one but two Deus ex Machina : (1) The super-beings who constructed the Faith planet and transported the reanimated crew back to Destiny, and (2) Destiny itself, with its ability to control human thought (at least during sleep.)

So, from now on whenever something happens we will have to double guess what we see - is it real? is it Destiny planting dreams? is it the super-beings?

Most powerful part of the show was Greer having to say his goodbyes to Chloe/Thing and his protection of Scott. After one and a half seasons of SGA I'm coming to the conclusion that the Greer character is the best on SGA.

wingsabre
November 23rd, 2010, 09:17 PM
he's a background performer there not allowed lines.

Well, he's dead now, so oh well...

Kaiphantom
November 23rd, 2010, 09:29 PM
Tag 'em and BAG 'em, boys!

(oh, did you c what I did thar? :P)

At any rate, this was a decent episode. Nothing too exciting, mildly interesting, but no plot holes or stupidity involved, thankfully. Who are these aliens and what do they want? I dunno, but they spent two episodes hinting at them, without giving us much information. If they spend another two episodes hinting without any major revelations, I'm gonna have to go smack someone.

On one note, though, I don't like how they handled Faith. Or rather, Caine's version of it. Yes, faith is belief, but faith isn't totally based on the unknown; faith is earned via works, via something that lets you know, "You can believe in me." All the major world religions have their tales of gods sending prophets or doing great works repeatedly to earn the faith of the people. In short, faith has a foundation, even if scientifically it isn't provable.

So technically, I suppose, Caine is stupid for using faith this way, but it's a stupid I can accept. He saw a good thing (Eden) and when faced with that or the ship, broke down and chose the planet. Once he made that choice, he had to justify it anyway possible, and thus his thinking became more and more unhinged (reminds me of a few people, heh). It's the last refuge of those that lack any scientific credibility, that they finally just have to fall back on faith, and "I have to believe that, because... because... well, I know the reasoning is bad and there's no proof, but goshdarnit, it's FAITH! So THERE!"

And I've sadly known many people like that in my life, so as I said, it's a stupid I can accept. Having said that, though, I do wish they had approached the topic better, if SGU really did intend to honestly confront religion. The episode "Faith" did it better (was this planet really left for us?), but in the end, if you believe that the world's religions are hokey and stupid and you tend to stick to science and the idea that everything is explainable, then this episode is for you. Rush pretty much tore Caine's whole argument apart with ease.

It's message is loud and clear: "There is no god, just advanced aliens, and you're pretty damn stupid to believe otherwise."

Otherwise, it was a decent episode overall, with decent acting. The whole Chloe and Scott thing continues to really confuse me. She has more feelings for Eli than Scott? Girl is definitely in an unhealthy relationship, because you're significant other should be your best friend and the person that would be the hardest to part with. If Chloe has all those feelings for Eli, then what she has with Scott is purely physical in nature, and she's just fooling herself.

That, or the writers really don't know how to write a real relationship.

But yeah, her scene with Greer was pretty nice, and I am admitting some grudging respect for her, for not whining about her situation or being reduced to a crybaby over it. Instead, she's acting much like I would; acceptance that it's coming, and I want someone to put a bullet in my brain if I ever become a threat. That deserves some props.

I felt Greer's words to Scott were too harsh. Scott was right; she's alone and needs people to visit and comfort her, not fear her. So his words were out of line.

As for Scott, I wonder if he's lying to himself, too. Chloe could apparently see that he was afraid of her, that whatever love he might have is overshadowed by his desire to not look like he's abandoning her.

In conclusion, no plot holes, no unbelievable stupidity, and some decent mystery and acting, so overall a decent episode. Not really groundbreaking or exciting, though.

themeatcleaver
November 23rd, 2010, 09:29 PM
Hmm, aliens give them a new shuttle, but people come back from the dead only to die again...

I thought long and hard about it, and there's only one explanation.

The aliens are trolling them! Destiny has inadvertently stumbled over the cosmic version of 4chan.

Eli is hopefully changing everybodys Facebook passwords as we speak. And I wouldn't ride a single lightyear in that shuttle. It probably has "COME INSIDE KIDS! FREE CANDY!!" written in all known alien languages on the side of it.

I can see it now.. Scott's standing there looking at the shuttle saying "Forget what Col. Young said! These guys look legit!" :D

Browncoat1984
November 23rd, 2010, 09:29 PM
I liked this episode, a little slow and disjointed at parts but it was decent, sure it was not as exciting as the last few episodes, but remember with shows like this (remember BSG?) You usually have a slight lull between big episodes. Notice that most of the sets used were existing sets and it was not a very effect heavy shot compared to the last couple episodes, so my guess is they needed a bottle-type show. Also wasn't this the first outing of a new writer on the team? If so it wasn't a bad first outing and I look forward to seeing future scripts from him.

I loved the part with Greer saying farewell to Chloe, I'm coming to really love Greer and his personality and his relationship to the rest of the crew and his protectiveness of them. I think we're really starting to see these characters come into their own this season and become a bit more likeable, its especially nice to see them start working more as a real team rather than a bunch of random people who shouldn't be there (as should be happening at this point).

I also like that we're not handed all the answers on a silver platter. Half the fun is asking questions and wondering what really happened. Granted, TOO much of that is not a good thing (I think BSG left a bit too much un-answered) but a little bit is good for discussion among fans and fellow viewers. I also liked that the whole crew returning to the ship didn't turn into some big alien threat (at least so far?)

senilegreen
November 23rd, 2010, 09:36 PM
It's easy to pick apart scripts of weekly series, because the stories tend to not be thought about for a long enough time to work out all the holes... nevertheless here I go:

One thing that bugged me about this episode is the death of the people on the Faith planet. Yes, I know the writers threw in that Greer line about them being scientists and thus having no survival skills, but that is weak. They were smart humans and would have figured out the following:

1) When fall came and they realized winter on the planet was going to be cold why not migrate south? They all had healthy legs - humans can walk several miles/day. Believe it or not, humans migrated across NE Siberia, through Alaska, down Canada, in the rest of the Americas at the height of the last glaciation on this planet!! It was damn more cold then (about 17000 years ago) then it is today, and yet humans made the journey, and did it fairly quickly too.

2) Figuring out how to build sufficient shelter/fires. If they can make candles (out of bees wax?) then they can make shelter for themselves.

The SGU writers just aren't handling real humanity very well. For some TV series that wouldn't matter, but SGU is being presented, week by week, as some serious study in humanity, with lots of introspection and inter-personal dialogue.

Quallen
November 23rd, 2010, 09:46 PM
One thing that bugged me about this episode is the death of the people on the Faith planet. Yes, I know the writers threw in that Greer line about them being scientists and thus having no survival skills, but that is weak. They were smart humans and would have figured out the following:


Well staying with the shuttle probably seemed like the safe bet and a sure thing right up until it broke.

VampyreWraith
November 23rd, 2010, 09:55 PM
I really liked this episode. It was a bit creepy and very sad. I liked Chloe and her kino videos. I liked Greer going to Chloe and asking for forgiveness for having to kill her when/if she turns. I liked Chloe and Eli's friendship. Even the Chloe and Scott scenes were pretty good.
I liked Caine and TJ' s scenes. The last scene between them was very sad, but it was probably my favorite part. I think Cain is dead; he did say that he remembered dying and its the one thing no one should have to remember. He was the last to die on the planet so he was alone and he said he prayed and then he and the others were in the shuttle but couldn't remember what happened to them. Maybe the Faith aliens felt bad in the way that everyone died because the only reason they stayed was because they believed; so maybe they wanted to give the people who stayed behind a chance to be with the the rest of he crew; to say goodbye, tell them what happened and not die alone, but among their own people. The beings were powerful, but not all powerful.

themeatcleaver
November 23rd, 2010, 10:10 PM
I like the fact that they have a shuttle now, which is convenient given next weeks previews. What i'm wondering though, is if it'll be more capable now that it's fully refurbished to like new condition, maybe a shield generator of its own? too much to ask for? :)

RJLCyberPunk
November 23rd, 2010, 10:13 PM
but what was the 'purpose' of bringing them all back (and back to life), only to have them all die again?

if the aliens could reanimate them, why let them die again?

I doubt that we will ever get a satisfactory answer to this question I mean as some mentioned some beings like the Ascended ancients don't give a hoot about corporeal beings with the exception of a few of them.

JustAnotherVoice
November 23rd, 2010, 10:25 PM
This time last season, everyone was at everyone else's throats. I marvel at the progress that the trio of Rush, Wray and Young have made in their working relationships. It just feels odd, in retrospect, that everyone is working together amicably.

It may just have been my imagination, but was there more than mutual respect in the scenes Wray and Young shared? I wouldn't quite call it friendship yet, but there's something there that I can't quite put my finger on...

Velocy
November 23rd, 2010, 10:30 PM
So this was Remi's first episode written. Personally I think he did a great job. Overall he did a good job. Still it's kinda hard to tell where the episode fits in. Don't get me wrong... but in the past the writers left us off with several big holes, like the Rush/Mandy and the Eli/Ginn inner conflict, or the lucian alliance guys being held in their quarters (like what's their state after the other guy rampaged?), or Telford being left on the Seedship with the aliens. The "Faith" story to me wasn't too much of an plot hole to me. People decided to leave the ship, they stay on planet, live their lifes and all that stay's back on Destiny are memorys (or in Destinys term "simulations"). I'm kinda suprised they picked up this arc again. This could easily have been one of the Elements which we'll never gonna see again in the whole Series (We'll I'd like to compare it to things like Ava from SGA 4.15 left behind in the simulation, Young Jack o Neill clone living his life, the woman Jack fell in love with on that planet he was trapped on before Teal'c came to rescue him and so on).

Well about the episode itselfe, it really has some great moments. Especially Greer & Chloe. I loved it how he overcame himselfe and his ideals (you know, being aware of anything that could be an enemy) and beg Chloe for forgivenes when time comes he has to fulfill his duty to protect the crew. Just 2 things that bugged me a bit. One is that I think Young could have told "the others" about what happened to Chloe and Rush, being implanted beacons / being infused with an Alien Virus or Alien DNA which could have made it easier for the other's to understand why the crew is so sceptic about and keeping distance to them. The other thing is Greer saying that he've seen a lot of people going, but never seen anyone come back, which sounds like a deep thought. But in relation to SGU he kinda saw Rush being gone, Chloe being gone... and both came back as well in one way or another. Well these are just tiny bits for my feeling of storytelling.

Oh well... another element I kinda missed was Eli suffering from Ginn's death. Personally I think this would have fit perfectly into the B-Story. Eli is seeing Chloe giving up... how she comes clean that she wont be herselfe for much longer and being killed due to this could have screwed him even more... you know... slowly losing another person he's being close to. Which kinda makes me think if the writers / producers watch their previous episodes? I mean... on one side, the pick up screwed characters (T.J. and her baby) on the other side screwed characters behave like normal (Eli and Rush). Maybe it's just a problem of a messws up episode airing order... at least I hope so. Still will be weird if Eli/Rush suffer from their losses in future episodes.

So much for my conclusion... I've been a SciFi Fan in terms in cases of SG1 and SGA... and never liked BSG or the BSG way of storytelling... but... this episode is one I really liked. Not VFX heavy... much character centric... probably not part of the "season story arc", but still no filler episode... more like part of the "series story arc" (I'm not sure about this... 10 more episodes to tell). I like it how the story was told.

morbosfist
November 23rd, 2010, 10:41 PM
Well, there's really nowhere to go but up after attempted murder and mutiny.

wingsabre
November 23rd, 2010, 10:44 PM
but what was the 'purpose' of bringing them all back (and back to life), only to have them all die again?

if the aliens could reanimate them, why let them die again?

Maybe it was just Return to Sender.

Vapor
November 23rd, 2010, 10:50 PM
In any case, the new dynamic is an interesting change. And as much as I enjoyed the near-constant antagonism this whole time, I think it was time for something else. Not that I expect it to be sunshine and roses from here on out, but this "working together" thing is nice too. >_>

SGeff
November 23rd, 2010, 10:56 PM
It's easy to pick apart scripts of weekly series, because the stories tend to not be thought about for a long enough time to work out all the holes... nevertheless here I go:

One thing that bugged me about this episode is the death of the people on the Faith planet. Yes, I know the writers threw in that Greer line about them being scientists and thus having no survival skills, but that is weak. They were smart humans and would have figured out the following:

1) When fall came and they realized winter on the planet was going to be cold why not migrate south? They all had healthy legs - humans can walk several miles/day. Believe it or not, humans migrated across NE Siberia, through Alaska, down Canada, in the rest of the Americas at the height of the last glaciation on this planet!! It was damn more cold then (about 17000 years ago) then it is today, and yet humans made the journey, and did it fairly quickly too.

2) Figuring out how to build sufficient shelter/fires. If they can make candles (out of bees wax?) then they can make shelter for themselves.

The SGU writers just aren't handling real humanity very well. For some TV series that wouldn't matter, but SGU is being presented, week by week, as some serious study in humanity, with lots of introspection and inter-personal dialogue.

1. If they move to the south, they will lose the shuttle, so they don't want to lose the only shelter.
2. There is no sign of animals there, not mention bees, so there is no wax.

PG15
November 23rd, 2010, 10:58 PM
Perhaps Wray has come to respect Young after she saw how he pulled himself out of the pit of depression he was in a few episodes earlier and how he's now trying to cooperate with Rush.

hart37
November 23rd, 2010, 11:01 PM
Well technically it's only been 10 months to those on destiny. :P

SGeff
November 23rd, 2010, 11:10 PM
Definitely love this episode. But I am confused as well. Did they confirm all the planet crew member are dead on Destiny except Caine? Is there any possiblility some of their "bodies" could still alive on the ship? After all we don't know how long they could actually alive, even some of them died soon.

All we know is some of them died in order, assuming those memories are real. Yes, I think the planet builder could easily plant some false memory in their minds. So I hope some could stay for a while lead us to what really happened.

morbosfist
November 23rd, 2010, 11:18 PM
All the ones that came back died except Caine. TJ confirmed it.

Rocksy
November 23rd, 2010, 11:44 PM
Bloody awful episode.

I hated every last second of that... i almost turned it off, wasted opportunity.

Meshakhad
November 24th, 2010, 12:13 AM
Man, that was a rough episode.

stevilevi
November 24th, 2010, 12:30 AM
The scene with Greer asking Chloe for forgiveness for what he may have to do was heart wrenching. He went about that with honor.

Much respect Greer!

Pecisk
November 24th, 2010, 12:49 AM
High level char development as usual. I liked that Yong is changed man - we can see it - he cared about TJ going trough emotions. Eli caring about loosing Chloe (he is outgrown crush on her and cares about her as friend). In same time ep is not preaching, not pulling down, just going trough all emotional backlog, leaving grieving, analyzing to us.

Those "faith" aliens seems to be ascended ones but without silly/not-so-silly rules of non-involvement which binded Ancients. They reasoning seems to be very strange and I'm quite afraid that they don't have so good intentions. It remains to be seen what they are and what a @!#%@ they want from Destiny and it's team.

Rocksy
November 24th, 2010, 01:12 AM
i partially recant my statement, everything Greer said in that episode was gold. Only shinning light in the bloody episode.

knowles2
November 24th, 2010, 01:28 AM
It temporary, just wait until someone stabs someone in the back. It bound to happen sooner or later.
Then it war an hate an fighting again.

timmciglobal
November 24th, 2010, 01:34 AM
So... Make a planet from stretch? Check. Instantly teleport people from one galaxy to the other? Check. Reanimate dead people? Check. Fix minor health issues like freezing or blunt force trauma? Fail.

Yea... So... Maybe the ascended people put all of their really stupid people in this galaxy and we just happened to get unlucky and end up on one of their pet projects.

The one shining point was geere and asking Chloe for forgiveness and being so blunt. Reminded me of jack a bit.

Tim

Pecisk
November 24th, 2010, 01:46 AM
So... Make a planet from stretch? Check. Instantly teleport people from one galaxy to the other? Check. Reanimate dead people? Check. Fix minor health issues like freezing or blunt force trauma? Fail.

Yea... So... Maybe the ascended people put all of their really stupid people in this galaxy and we just happened to get unlucky and end up on one of their pet projects.

The one shining point was geere and asking Chloe for forgiveness and being so blunt. Reminded me of jack a bit.

I think it was quite obvious that they can do almost anything, but they can't give back their souls. Their deaths reminded me of bittersweet ending of Curbick's "A.I.", where David is given a chance to have a last day and say goodbye and goodnight with his "mom". However, anything else in their revival stays mystery - for example, why those aliens didn't help them survive on planet (as TJ dreamed they did), why return them to Destiny, etc. This is what makes this ep rather interesting and I hope we will get to know those faith aliens a little bit better in the future.

Greer continues to shine. He is one of sanest person on the ship. Flawed, but still sanest.

SGeff
November 24th, 2010, 02:06 AM
Just remind you all, there are 8 people not 7 in Caine's crew.

So that's 6 people frozen to death.

thekillman
November 24th, 2010, 02:30 AM
Wray isn't evil. IMO she only took power because Young was going down the drain. second time he went down the drain, she and Rush tried another approach. i don't believe she ever wanted power. she wants the expedition to be properly led, and will intervene if it's not.


Rush is a pragmatist. While Young did the right things, he always restricted Rush. which is why he kept stuff secret: so he could study it properly.

while they can be bumpyheads, there's no real need for complete antagonism. there are clear differences in the way they treat situations. Rush is pragmatic and shows it. Young keeps options open, even though there are obvious ones.


they can easily work together. they just never allowed themselves and eachother this level of cooperation, as Young kept Rush on a short leash, and Rush kept secrets

Eestlanna
November 24th, 2010, 02:53 AM
Those "faith" aliens seems to be ascended ones but without silly/not-so-silly rules of non-involvement which binded Ancients. They reasoning seems to be very strange and I'm quite afraid that they don't have so good intentions.
Sounds very Ori to me...

Jaemal
November 24th, 2010, 02:54 AM
Bit of a weird episode. It resolved things that didn't really need resolving and I can't shake the feeling that it was all a big polt device to get a shuttle back. Other than that it was good though I didn't really care for all the talk about religion. Great character development for Greer and Scott with some for Chloe, TJ and Wray as well.

But we really need to get moving with the Chloe plot. Everything is in place now, waiting any longer would be anticlimatic and boring.

JeBuSBrian
November 24th, 2010, 04:05 AM
Boring, almost pointless episode. The writers needed a new shuttle. Now they have one. An hour wasted.

metabog
November 24th, 2010, 04:53 AM
I frickin' hate Caine.

I don't even know what he's doing on an advanced space ship with a bunch of scientists, when the only thing he's done so far in every episode is preach, and not even in a smart way. I mean I see why faith would be an interesting theme, but he comes across as a fundamentalist cultist or something. If anything, that's what's offputting to me about him, not the fact that he had no soul in this episode.

The cosmic microwave background radiation pattern thing is interesting, but I can't believe Rush considers it to be a "sign of intelligence" just because it's a clear pattern. This is a massive logical flaw that any real skeptic or scientist will point out, and skeptics have used this argument against intelligent design for a long time now, long enough that I wish I wouldn't have to see brilliant scientist characters making this mistake.

This is the third modern sci-fi show now that will probably end with "god did it". First BSG (in an interesting way), then LOST (blatantly and annoyingly) and now Stargate. :mad:

Homer 120
November 24th, 2010, 05:08 AM
Really enjoyed this episode overall, little slow, yes but it did end in a (at lest to me) very interesting way. Wonder if we'll ever see these Aliens or whether it'll just be one huge mystery.

SupremeLegate
November 24th, 2010, 05:30 AM
One thing I noticed in this episode is that it felt like Young had eased of the reins a little, in that he did not care about the shift swapping or the geek moment. And it does seem like Young, Rush, and Wray are working together, not only working together but working together well.

vszulc
November 24th, 2010, 05:51 AM
I think this episode made the show a little worse. Viewers don't need answers to everything.

Before this episode we had a nice little mystery, and could discuss and imagine what had happened to the 7 people left in the planet. (And the writers could have kept them for an episode in the future. Or hell: Used them for a whole new series!)

But nope, they had to ruin the mystery, and waste the 7 on an episode that seemed to have no real purpose other than equip the Destiny with a new shuttle. Bummer.

OutandAboot
November 24th, 2010, 06:21 AM
Viewers don't need answers to everything.



I agree with that, but there's still a mystery about who the aliens are and what happened to the baby (if something more happended).

I still believe she's alive and that the aliens have her. The aliens, whoever they are, may have disguised themselves as Caine and the other two just to comfort TJ.

Dark Angel
November 24th, 2010, 06:26 AM
Here is my theory on why the aliens did what they did. The fixed the shuttle and put it right in the path of the destiny to make shure we get the massage. They revived the people who were on the planet only to have them die again, also to make shure we get the massage. Their massage beeing: "Stay the hell away from our planet or else".


All in all I think it was a sollid episode.

garhkal
November 24th, 2010, 06:37 AM
I know irl i have had people like young/wray/rush that i have worked with, who initially i was backstabbing/untrusting of, but after working with them for a year or two, we developed mutual respect... so i can easily see it happening to them.

Galileo_Galilee
November 24th, 2010, 06:39 AM
Well this episode is actually going the opposite route of the previous SG shows with its focus on religion and Creationism.

Gallienus
November 24th, 2010, 06:45 AM
It's interesting how many people here appear to be atheists, and how many of them find Caine ultimately misguided for his actions. Or that this episode was some kind of vindication for there being no God to believe in. I didn't see it that way, but I suppose I can understand the perspective of others on this point.

If anything, though I felt much of what went on to be pointless (beyond the Chloe) stuff, I thought the episode as much as anything else revealed the limits of the power of these alien "beings." Other's have already referenced Lorien/A.I. but it does seem like while they can rebuild the human body, they can not undo the natural order of things. So, since those people had died already, the temporary resurrection of their physical forms could not ultimately undo that. So certainly I think there's a metaphysical component, it just wasn't really discussed.

As for Caine, I never saw his choice in Faith as foolish. Given the choice between a seemingly hopeless journey in a quasi derelict ancient vessel or living on a planet that at least -appeared- to be lush and connected with some kind of super advanced intelligence, I can't say that I blame him. I also don't think the point of this episode was to derride faith, in any context. The assumption seems to be that Caine's faith was "baseless." Well I should point out that not every belief system relies on "revelation." Many philosophies have no prophet or holy book to "back them up" and as a matter of course people believe in a higher power without any "evidence" at all on a very routine basis. Philosophy is not the realm of science, and it does not follow the same rules to begin with. Caine made his choice and stuck with it, if nothing else he was consistent. As for TJ's experience, that was -probably- the doing of the ship, though I suppose it's impossible to be 100% totally certain of that.

At any rate I didn't dislike this episode, but once again I found it unnecessary for the most part, more so if we never hear anything about the world builders again. For now I have to reserve full judgment since I don't know what the writers have in mind. Chloe's experiences are certainly going to have to play out at some point and I'm very interested to see how that goes, especially with Greer in the mix. Really I hope there will be more philosophical discussions regarding the Destiny's mission going forward, I really -really- hope this doesn't get shunted into a "this proves there's no God" thing, it's been done and it would be a very boring result in my mind. Here's hoping for some majorly interesting creativity on the part of the writers!

Pecisk
November 24th, 2010, 06:52 AM
Well this episode is actually going the opposite route of the previous SG shows with its focus on religion and Creationism.

Really? It bashes faith against science and it clearly showed that believing in something doesn't make it real. Those guys believed that obelisk planet aliens will help them going home - they didn't, in fact, they didn't even care about them dying in cold winter (when just providing wooden houses like TJ dreamed about would do just fine). TJ believed that baby is on obelisk planet - so far it seems she didn't and dream had different meaning.

Show has interesting speculations about faith and beliefs, but in the end, it roots very well in scientific mysticism (as in the end they admitted that aliens brought them back), not paranormal (heck, in Stargate cosmos even ascending is within *normal* framework).

Pharaoh Atem
November 24th, 2010, 07:13 AM
yya

garhkal
November 24th, 2010, 07:16 AM
Well, I guess they didn't have her baby so the only other answers I can think of is that it was the Destiny.

I disagree. Just cause the "dopplegangers" didn't have the baby, does not automatically make the ship the responsible person.. Perhaps the 'aliens' still were responsible and took the baby to the same "realm" (for lack of a better word) that they took the real bodies of our prior dead.



It did prove that there are powerful beings still there with the obelisks.

That it did..



Will it have something to do with the big bad?

It looks like the seasons going to end with a cliff hanger. I hope they will have a third to be able to resolve it.

WE can all keep our fingers crossed..


Kane was alive when the white light showed up. So did Greer kill the guy ?

From what it looked ike to me, his "lights' went out just as the big glowy light showed up..


Best Greer moments

Especially his talk with chloe and scott..


This is an interesting episode. I think I liked the B story more then the A story. Its not the A one was bad its just that I liked Chloe coming to the very real possibility she would be dead soon and her saying goodbye to all her friends on Destiny. I think it showed an insight to how Chloe has changed since Air and how much she cared for the various people on Destiny.

Especially her jumping into Eli, saying he will be the hardest to say good bye to..
As for the "a story" it was interesting.... to say the least.


BAG fans are gonna be pissed.

Couldn't have happened to a better unknown.. well to me. :cool:


I LOVED Caine in this episode because despite all of his preaching and assurances about faith we saw that all he had was doubt and fear. Even in the end when everyone else was dead on that shuttle he admits that he doesn't want to die. Typically a person who is absolute certain of their religious beliefs would not fear death under those harsh circumstances. The character would be annoying f didn't have any of these doubts.

By the way he has convinced himself that he is a shadow of who he once was when in fact I'm guessing, biologically and spiritually speaking, he is absolutely the same because the alien beings saved him in the nick of time.

To me, on the one hand here he is, staying behind cause of faith in a higher power, then questioning it (i don't want to die) then accepting it. Strange to me, how he went from ok, to not ok, back to ok..


why did they all die? where they already dead when they got back to the ship? if so, what killed them again? who killed them?

Nature... One died from a tree falling on her head.. the rest from Hypothermia.


If these aliens are so powerful, I don't see why they couldn't fully restore all of those people. And not just temporarily.

Who';s to say they wanted to.. For all they know this might have been their way to punish those others for staying on the planet.. Give them a little taste of what could have been.. then watching it all fade away (dying again).


Interesting how the returning people from the planet died in the order they orginally were killed, Final Destination anyone?

i am glad someone else got the film reference... I loved all the final destinations..


I'm taking this as more of a warning. Keep your junk and your people off our planet. We don't want any trace of them here. I haven't decided for myself whether or not we will get to more about them in the future..


That would be in a "somewhat sick way" Hilarious if it was the reasoning..



wow the Dome repair happened super fast...wish they had left it for a ball court or something

That it did. but it was only 3 eps ago we remember the crew asking young to assign the droid to the repairs...


Overall, I feel this was a decent episode, but its airing order sucks IMHO. I have no problems with the script outright, but given the arc of the past two episodes, I wanted this episode (whatever the overall plot) to have more Eli and Rush post-Ginn/Mandy. I wanted to see Eli struggling with his lack of closure, Rush struggling with killing Simeon, both of them maybe a tad irritated at the other because Rush was actually kissing Ginn, and [some reason Rush could be irritated at eli (it's too late to think right now)], and something with the rest of the Lucians and Homeworld Security.

I am just wondering if they might be holding off on that for a later date.. let it seep in some first.



It's message is loud and clear: "There is no god, just advanced aliens, and you're pretty damn stupid to believe otherwise."

But.. how do we know that God is NOT just some super advanced being.



One thing that bugged me about this episode is the death of the people on the Faith planet. Yes, I know the writers threw in that Greer line about them being scientists and thus having no survival skills, but that is weak. They were smart humans and would have figured out the following:

1) When fall came and they realized winter on the planet was going to be cold why not migrate south? They all had healthy legs - humans can walk several miles/day. Believe it or not, humans migrated across NE Siberia, through Alaska, down Canada, in the rest of the Americas at the height of the last glaciation on this planet!! It was damn more cold then (about 17000 years ago) then it is today, and yet humans made the journey, and did it fairly quickly too.


Just cause they are smart scientists, don't mean diddly squat. I know plenty of booksmart geeks who have nothing for common sense..
As to the "walking" IIRC didn't they say the ship could fly, it just wouldn't leave the atmosphere? Why didn't they go to a warmer climate (or further into the mountains to where caves were...


I like the fact that they have a shuttle now, which is convenient given next weeks previews. What i'm wondering though, is if it'll be more capable now that it's fully refurbished to like new condition, maybe a shield generator of its own? too much to ask for? :)

It would be intersting to see what a fully restored shuttle can do against the blues..


Maybe it was just Return to Sender.

Postage due.. ;)


I agree with that, but there's still a mystery about who the aliens are and what happened to the baby (if something more happended).

I still believe she's alive and that the aliens have her. The aliens, whoever they are, may have disguised themselves as Caine and the other two just to comfort TJ.

Yup. For all we know, the aliens live in another realm entirely (ascended style), and saw us, wanted to help, but didn't have the full cacaity to bring our dead back fully... And i for one, DO like it when they bring closure to items they leave up in the air..

Pharaoh Atem
November 24th, 2010, 07:17 AM
Well this episode is actually going the opposite route of the previous SG shows with its focus on religion and Creationism.nothing wrong wiht that :D

let the one true god guide u

jelgate
November 24th, 2010, 07:19 AM
So... Make a planet from stretch? Check. Instantly teleport people from one galaxy to the other? Check. Reanimate dead people? Check. Fix minor health issues like freezing or blunt force trauma? Fail.

Yea... So... Maybe the ascended people put all of their really stupid people in this galaxy and we just happened to get unlucky and end up on one of their pet projects.

The one shining point was geere and asking Chloe for forgiveness and being so blunt. Reminded me of jack a bit.

Tim

Asking an alien species to revive them from the dead is a pretty big request. Its a shocker they could do it temporarily.

Pharaoh Atem
November 24th, 2010, 07:21 AM
Asking an alien species to revive them from the dead is a pretty big request. Its a shocker they could do it temporarily.

let the edan folks say bye and good luck and then .....

PotRoast
November 24th, 2010, 08:00 AM
I loved this episode. This series is about Characterization. The Greer/Chloe conversation was powerful. Having had conversations with my late father about WW11, I can understand the concept of duty and that taking a life is not always a cut and dry decision. I liked the humanity involved with Greer being the one to pull the trigger, not wanting too but having too.
The Caine/TJ scene was very moving and did away with the expectation that everyone would return and go back to the it was, or ride of into the sunset. Life is not wrapped up in neat little packages so why should this series be.
Congrats to the new writer and I will be expecting more.

Perelandra
November 24th, 2010, 08:00 AM
I liked this episode, though not as much as the previous season 2 episodes.
We're to assume the advanced obelisk aliens teleported them instantly to the Destiny
re-animating them and restoring the shuttle. The big question is did Caine die on the planet or not?
a lot of heart-rending scenes, had my tissues out.
I hope Caine lives, I like him myself.
I personally think TJ's babyis in the afterlife.
Greer/Chloe scene-tissues
Caine/TJ scene-tissues
Chloe saying goodbye via Kino-tissues
Must say my makeup was rubbed off after this episode.

Mortock42
November 24th, 2010, 08:08 AM
First off, hope everyone has a happy thanksgiving!

Honestly, I am surprised it took this long for the writers to find a way to provide the crew with a functioning shuttle..lol. Talk about a Deus Ex Machina...! Hopefully they can hold onto this one a bit longer than the last two...

Greer is awesome! He might seem unaproachable to some, but he is definitely someone I would want to watch my back. It's a bid distressing though to see the inner turmoil he is experiencing knowing that he will probably have to kill Chloe-alien. On one hand, it seems that he has found a way to form an emotionally protective barrier by distancing himself from those around him that would have the potential to "go away". Deep down, he was glad to see Chloe come back, but knowing he will most likely be the one to make her "go away" is eating him up. Although, the comment he made about how he's seen plenty of people go away, but never had any come back, sounds like an attempt on his part to convince himself that Chloe really never came back, allowing him to better deal with her impending death.

As far as what the folks from the faith planet were? I think that everyone except Caine, who aparently didn't die on the planet, were merely temporary representations of the people who once inhabited their bodies. Even Young said that when he was around them, he felt strange and was compelled to keep his distance. I think it's because deep down he somehow felt that although they looked and sounded like the crew he used to know, they in fact weren't (with the exception of Caine of course). It makes sense that things like shuttles and bodies can be restored, but not the soul.

As to how this whole event fits within the storyline? Hmmm...I still think Destiny's mission and the faith planet are somehow linked, and that whoever/whatever created the planet wants the crew and the Destiny to complete it's mission. And having a brand spankin' new shuttle was somehow necessary for that misstion to be completed.
OR, the entire universe is some super ascended being's ant-farm and is shook-up from time to time just to keep things interesting! :)

mizzoueng
November 24th, 2010, 08:53 AM
All in all I thought it was a "okay" episode. It was interesting to see the shuttle in new conditions, makes me wonder what the Destiny looked like in new condition. Did it have the fancy silver and red paint job? Were the lights in the ship the ultra-bright LEDs that we see in the new shuttle? Even the glass looked clearer and the view more sharp and vivid.

As for the Faith crew, once they started dieing, I figured that they weren't clones or resurrections. I figured they served one purpose, and that was to deliver the shuttle and to also divulge the information to the crew about the hardships and the ultimate fate of those that leave Destiny. I assumed that the Faith Aliens used a temporal dilation field to actually reverse time for each of the Faith crew and the shuttle. Doing so brought them back to life, but they still retained some of the residual neural pathways that recorded the memories of being on the planet. Maybe if they compare the kino to one of the ones on Destiny, they will see it has "factory fresh" parts as well.

Chloe was puzzling to me. She said she could somewhat control the "new side" and see it clearly. If that was true, wouldn't she be able to begin to understand its purpose and possibly gain some information on the true nature of the Blues? It seems that she has a huge understanding of Destiny on a sub-conscious level and that if given some a remote laptop with no outside connections, she could be very useful to the crew. Granted her work could be a ruse to sabotage the ship, but the Blues are after the memory core of Destiny and possibly the star harvesting technology, so damaging systems is not in their best interest. I think Destiny made the simulation to reinforce Youngs opinion that the Blues want to destroy Destiny.

rcpadrick
November 24th, 2010, 09:12 AM
The Chloe/Greer scene was the only thing worth watching in this entire episode.

I have loved SGU from the beginning, but these past two episodes have been near unwatchable.

prion
November 24th, 2010, 09:32 AM
Seriously, the best part was Greer and Chloe in that one scene. Made the episode worthwhile. Otherwise, when they started dying one by one, I thought, Oh, hope nobody died on a rollercoaster. Yes, reminded me way too much of "Final Destination" films where people died in order of how they originally died. Yes, some of us do watch those movies on SyFy ;)

Kaiphantom
November 24th, 2010, 09:46 AM
But.. how do we know that God is NOT just some super advanced being.

Most people, when they think of God, imagine a pretty damn near omnipotent being. Someone who is perfect. Someone deserving of worship, precisely because they don't have any flaws and can always take care of and provide for us. Someone who is not a part of the universe, seeing as how they created it.

A super advanced alien being would still have flaws, and still be a product of the universe. Thus, not someone worthy of worshiping. Powerful yes, but not not a god. The Goa'uld, the Asgard, the ascended... all powerful beings in their own right, but I think you can see the fallacy of treating them as gods.

PHILIP1
November 24th, 2010, 09:51 AM
I think this fairly okay episode was absolutely terrible in another way. It's in complete contradiction to 'INTERVENTION'. It's a way for the producers, scriptwriters ( whatever) to be a lot more lazy. The season 2 premiere episode was mysterious, exactly what they need to keep the show alive. Now they've completely messed it up, looking for a way to close off those characters, events......altogether.

as for Chloe, well i personally don't think she's going anywhere. it's just a pathetic attempt at some kind of a plot twist trick or plain drama,...to get people to watch more, these characters usually get saved at the last minute (assuming the actor doesn't have a better offer).

this show may or may not last very long anyway. it's very different compared to the others (SGA SG1). it's got a totally different feeling. the others were more entertaining, fun, and sometimes more action than this one. and i wonder, just how long the producers and scriptwriters plan to keep the characters going nowhere? in a realistic situation, after everything the SGC has accumulated in knowledge and technology, (very advanced AI, asgard core, atlantis) i can tell you beyond much doubt it would NOT take long for these people to be rescued. and from what by the way? a rust bucket constantly experiencing failures that should have either broken down or been blown up by now considering realistic odds. The producers aren't doing a good job. This show is A WAY TO MAKE MONEY.

kudra
November 24th, 2010, 10:08 AM
I wondered if the temporary resurrection was because the aliens do believe in non interference with lower races but were prepared to bend the rules a little on this occasion. So they were prepared to let them rejoin destiny to say goodbye but not to leave them permanently alive as that would be to change their fate.

boo1234
November 24th, 2010, 10:25 AM
what the heck was this episode? I'm just baffled.. nothing happened that seems of mention besides being visited by resurrected dead people...

Cylykon
November 24th, 2010, 10:50 AM
There is no sign of animals there, not mention bees, so there is no wax.

Ear wax?

Galileo_Galilee
November 24th, 2010, 10:59 AM
Really? It bashes faith against science and it clearly showed that believing in something doesn't make it real. Those guys believed that obelisk planet aliens will help them going home - they didn't, in fact, they didn't even care about them dying in cold winter (when just providing wooden houses like TJ dreamed about would do just fine). TJ believed that baby is on obelisk planet - so far it seems she didn't and dream had different meaning.

I do not agree.


The kinos showed him sitting in the shuttle with a blanket around him trying to keep warm. The next thing we hear is "Please, I don't want to die.". The next thing we see is a burst of light enveloping the entire shuttle, blinding the kino.


So what that shows is the aliens did care because they responded to a plea of help. If you do not care you do not respond to a plea for help. Nor would the obelisk beings create an entirely new shuttle and entirely new people and send them back to the Destiny.

That was a huge act of compassion, if mishandled due to some sort of misunderstanding by the obelisk beings.

StefanSGA
November 24th, 2010, 11:35 AM
Was it meant to end an unfinished storyline, like the one from the people on the planet and TJ's baby?

Was it a cheap way to give us back a brandnew shuttle?

Was it to further introduce these aliens and are we going to meet these mysterious aliens in one of the coming episodes?

What was the deal with the whole Chloe-Greer thing?

Or was it just a rich 'filler' episode?

blueray
November 24th, 2010, 11:39 AM
i think it was trying up the loose end of what happened to the people on the planet. at the same time leaving more questions such as what happened to tj's baby and who are the aliens.

as for chloe and greer, he was apologizing to her because he knows at some point young is going to order him to kill her.

Ashizuri
November 24th, 2010, 11:40 AM
Was it meant to end an unfinished storyline, like the one from the people on the planet and TJ's baby?

Was it a cheap way to give us back a brandnew shuttle?

Was it to further introduce these aliens and are we going to meet these mysterious aliens in one of the coming episodes?

What was the deal with the whole Chloe-Greer thing?

Or was it just a rich 'filler' episode?

All of the above.

jelgate
November 24th, 2010, 11:43 AM
Whats the point of any episode?

To tell a story of some kind. I think this one qualifies.

Corona
November 24th, 2010, 11:47 AM
Just a few observations.
Tree lady was dead for months and was not on the shuttle.

I thought I saw tree chopper guy walk out of the shuttle after talking with Caine, ending his pain. Again, not on the shuttle.

I think since the colony was now dead, the aliens sent them home for last rites. Repairing the shuttle was necessary to survive the trip.

Caine will die watching the stars with TJ. Note how he was suffering hypothermia as they sat. He only had minutes left.

StefanSGA
November 24th, 2010, 11:48 AM
Whats the point of any episode?

To tell a story of some kind. I think this one qualifies.

Hahaha what a bunch of smart*sses around here :D . I meant off course to ask: does this episode take a place in the main story-arc or was it more of a filler-and-tie-loose-ends episode?

spaceship
November 24th, 2010, 11:50 AM
Well I paused it at least 3 times to do something else on my PC. Thats how bored I was. It sucked so bad. Dead people coming alive only to die again. More rotting corpses on Destiny, please! The ship is so sweet smelling as it is!

The Chloe-Greer thing was also daft. He's asking for forgiveness because he's going to have to kill her. Amazingly Chloe is now a saint because she actually forgives him! St. Smurfette!

jelgate
November 24th, 2010, 11:55 AM
Hahaha what a bunch of smart*sses around here :D . I meant off course to ask: does this episode take a place in the main story-arc or was it more of a filler-and-tie-loose-ends episode?

Very few if any SGU stories are just filler. The fact it has development from previous episodes makes it arc based

thekillman
November 24th, 2010, 12:12 PM
i found it to be one of the better episodes.


also anything even implying supernatural will result in a cop-out or "cheap" aspect. wheter it's danny dying or the shuttle.

or in BSG, Baltar locating the Tyllium storage. which he literally just randomly picked.

in fact, the entire first season of BSG has lots of infinitesimally small chances having a lot of impact. not including the various prophetic visions, passages, and random findings.


so why is this bad? they have a shuttle, people. now we're gonna destroy the universe!

i'm far more interested in the return of the seedship. telford+intelligent aliens + ancient space ship at full power (the only reason it was stationary was due to some error), plus a gate = return. in fact i'd be disappointed if it DIDN't return.

Sp!der
November 24th, 2010, 12:17 PM
it was okay... not every episode can be a 10 right? ;)..after malice it was to be expected to have a slower paced episode, so I am fine with that as long as the mid season finale is gonna rock! ...after that I am gonna rewatch Season 1- 2.0 and than its gonna be long wait for season 2.5 i wished they would not make this long hiatus....

Kaeb
November 24th, 2010, 12:39 PM
This episode was an excellent one IMO. We got throwbacks to the fans with balding asian guy, we got a new shuttle, we got some excellent character moments and we were even rewarded with the notion that not only are there aliens out there advanced enough to do all the things they've done, they're also charitable enough to not only give the Eden settlers another chance to say goodbye, but to provide Destiny with the shuttle fully repaired in the first place.

GREAT, episode.

ArchaeoNerd
November 24th, 2010, 12:56 PM
This episode was all about saying goodbye... the Faith planet crew "sent home" to Destiny to say goodbye to their friends; Chloe saying goodbye on her Kino videos.

Caine explained why the obelisk people couldn't just restore them to life permanently... he said that they could give them their bodies back, but not their souls. The "reanimated" crew were only shadows. So these aliens are awesomely powerful, but powerful in a different way than the Ancients, who brought Daniel Jackson (and his soul) back from the dead several times.

I think that the story brought closure to Caine's crew, which reminded me of an episode of Star Trek Voyager called "Course: Oblivion", which showed what eventually happened to a set of duplicates of the Voyager crew left behind on a toxic planet. However, I'm kind of sad that their story is over (supposedly). I like having loose ends dangling around that might get picked up again later. I'm still hoping that we'll see Palmer and Curtis in some new context. :)

ArchaeoNerd

kamae
November 24th, 2010, 12:59 PM
All of the above.

/signed other than the fact that Chloe will be on many more episodes so she wont be killed "off"

mi_guard
November 24th, 2010, 01:02 PM
Brian J. Smith mentioned on his twitter account today:



The events in 'Visitation' are open to interpretation, but here's mine: I think they were a "gift" from the makers of the 'Faith' planet. They saw those people suffering and dying so they tried to regenerate them and send them back to us. Unfortunately they didn't get the recipe right. Maybe they'll try again one day? But I think it's full of meaning and it's not a filler episode - it all ties in to what's happening with Chloe. Just like the people from 'Faith', she's slowly watching herself die and we're having to find ways to deal with it. Her condition is terminal. It will have to be dealt with eventually. There's denial, dread, helplessness, withdrawal, etc.

And TJ's baby is another interesting conundrum that we don't really fully answer on purpose - was it the ship implanting a dreamed simulation in her mind? Is it possible the makers of the planet could make a baby for her? Or is the baby just dead? It could be any of those things and more and that's why it's so heartbreaking to me.

AndSoItBegins
November 24th, 2010, 01:03 PM
Hahaha what a bunch of smart*sses around here :D . I meant off course to ask: does this episode take a place in the main story-arc or was it more of a filler-and-tie-loose-ends episode?


Its not about anyone being a smart---. Its about people being tired of posts like yours which try to hold EVERY episode of SGU to a standard that no other series was expected to be held to. What was the point of any episode of SG1 or SGA? What was the point of any episode of any show that aired this week?

And stop trying to cover up what your true intent was because your title made it all to clear.

StefanSGA
November 24th, 2010, 01:28 PM
Its not about anyone being a smart---. Its about people being tired of posts like yours which try to hold EVERY episode of SGU to a standard that no other series was expected to be held to. What was the point of any episode of SG1 or SGA? What was the point of any episode of any show that aired this week?

And stop trying to cover up what your true intent was because your title made it all to clear.

Well, excuse me for asking a serious question.... You're implying all kinds of stuff about me with your response and i hope you're not doing this with every other SGU-fan around here, because there aren't that many left. I'm seriously considering leaving this board, because i really don't like responses like yours. So thank you for ruining this thread.

jelgate
November 24th, 2010, 01:47 PM
Brian J. Smith mentioned on his twitter account today:

They let him put that all in a tweet? I'm in most agreement. They left in ambigous for a reason. We just don't know because well their are just things we are unaware even at the moment.

mi_guard
November 24th, 2010, 01:54 PM
They let him put that all in a tweet? I'm in most agreement. They left in ambigous for a reason. We just don't know because well their are just things we are unaware even at the moment.

I do not know if they let him put all that :D, in any case he did. Maybe he'll get a phone call from the writers to 'shut up' in the future :)

jelgate
November 24th, 2010, 01:57 PM
I do not know if they let him put all that :D, in any case he did. Maybe he'll get a phone call from the writers to 'shut up' in the future :)

I was talking about Twiter in general. Thats a pretty big tweet. I can't see how TPTB would disapprove of what he said. He wasn't negative towards the writing and he didn't unleash spoilers. Thats usually the two big nos from the writers unless your Robert Cartyle who releases spoilers anyway:P

Galileo_Galilee
November 24th, 2010, 02:02 PM
Nice catch ArchaeoNerd.

mi_guard
November 24th, 2010, 02:14 PM
I was talking about Twiter in general. Thats a pretty big tweet. I can't see how TPTB would disapprove of what he said. He wasn't negative towards the writing and he didn't unleash spoilers. Thats usually the two big nos from the writers unless your Robert Cartyle who releases spoilers anyway:P

In fact the tweet was even longer, check it out: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/74v2o5

Yeah, it is a pity Robert Carlyle does not tweet - otherwise we would probably already know how season 5 would end :D

hedwig
November 24th, 2010, 02:33 PM
In fact the tweet was even longer, check it out: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/74v2o5

Yeah, it is a pity Robert Carlyle does not tweet - otherwise we would probably already know how season 5 would end :D

Apparently it's a different twitter site
For when you talk too much for twitter

:D

James71
November 24th, 2010, 02:45 PM
At one point Rush was talking with several civilian crew members about "the mission".
Then everyone turned to listen to Brody say that he got the still fixed. The still was clearly a higher priority to those people.

Rush packed up his laptop with disgust clearly evident on his face.

It really made the point that most of the crew does not share the same passion as Rush does for "the mission".

LoneStar1836
November 24th, 2010, 02:57 PM
I thought this ep was okay overall upon initial viewing. (6/10) It drug in places, though I think it would probably stand up better upon a second viewing. It had some really good character moments that save it.


~ Liked the B story with Chloe more than the A story. And considering during the first season that I would have thrown a party if she "accidentally" wandered into an air lock, it's a big turn around for her character for me. Can't say I love the character (though I'm a lot more sympathetic towards her), but for the most part I've enjoyed the story surrounding her this season.

The one thing I don't get is why is everyone is seemingly convinced that she has to be disposed of if she goes completely alien. Why? Just keep her isolated like she already is.

Anyway great scenes all around concerning that storyline. I don't have a problem with the pace that her transformation is going at since I think they are building up the story for the mid season finale.

~ I enjoyed the episode "Faith". I was in favor of never returning to the people left behind. Had no need to know their fate. But I'm guessing these super duper Faith planet aliens are the same ones that created the signal that Destiny is searching for....so it's a continuing thread.

I guess I don't mind that except for the weirdness of why would they bring these people back to only have them die. If they are souless shells, then why would they have a need to say goodbye if they had essentially already moved on, and why unload the bad news on the Destiny crew? I'm rather confused on what possible motivations these aliens had for doing this....other than the writers needed a new shuttle on the ship. The concept of them saying goodbye is nice and all, but considering the ship didn't exactly welcome them back with open arms didn't make their goodbye all that great.

And to annoy some people :P, the first thing that popped into my head when someone said that the shuttle was brand new was the Viper that Starbuck came back with in BSG. Then the possibility that these people were all dead, and it turned out they were. I hope the shuttle is just a shuttle though....

~ Felt bad for TJ, but I was never in favor of ascending or whatever the baby to that planet. (I think that was Destiny.) Though I suppose the end scene with Caine will give her a bit of comfort that even though the baby wasn't on the planet, there is always the possibility of something greater than just death.

I enjoy character eps, and this one was pretty good in that regard, but not one of their best.

Kaiphantom
November 24th, 2010, 03:10 PM
Was it a cheap way to give us back a brandnew shuttle?

Ding ding ding! We have a winner! ;p

xxxevilgrinxxx
November 24th, 2010, 03:19 PM
This time last season, everyone was at everyone else's throats. I marvel at the progress that the trio of Rush, Wray and Young have made in their working relationships. It just feels odd, in retrospect, that everyone is working together amicably.

It may just have been my imagination, but was there more than mutual respect in the scenes Wray and Young shared? I wouldn't quite call it friendship yet, but there's something there that I can't quite put my finger on...

I've been noticing a lot of respect between Young and Wray, ever since the incursion and it's only gotten stronger since then. It's been good to see.

Eternal Density
November 24th, 2010, 03:38 PM
...[Caine] comes across as a fundamentalist cultist or something.A fundamentalist cultist? Looks like you've invented a new oxymoron!
[edit] Was anyone disturbed by tree-lady's sudden bleeding death?
It seemed fairly tame to me... as I've been watching Fringe (season 1) for the first time so that's my new standard of freakiness :P

theta123
November 24th, 2010, 03:58 PM
a beautifull episode

Eternal Density
November 24th, 2010, 04:00 PM
I noticed a bit of irony in the episode name: it's called Visitation but TJ and Young don't get to see their daughter. No visitation rights for them!

hedwig
November 24th, 2010, 04:17 PM
The one thing I don't get is why is everyone is seemingly convinced that she has to be disposed of if she goes completely alien. Why? Just keep her isolated like she already is.

I definitely agree with this. I don't see any reason for her to be killed if she transforms into an alien. And if she did, and they felt they had to "dispose" of her, then drop her off on a planet somewhere. I see no reason to kill her. And, in fact, I honestly can't see Young giving an order to do that. Not without a really, really, really good reason. And even then, I can't actually see him giving that order. Maybe others can, but I can't.

And while I'm on the subject, I'm wondering if Young and Greer have actually talked about this possibility, or if Greer has simply assumed that it's going to happen and he'll be the one to "execute" Chloe. While that was an emotional scene and all that, I'm sort of finding that potential resolution to be excessive in the extreme.

LoneStar1836
November 24th, 2010, 04:41 PM
I definitely agree with this. I don't see any reason for her to be killed if she transforms into an alien. And if she did, and they felt they had to "dispose" of her, then drop her off on a planet somewhere. I see no reason to kill her. And, in fact, I honestly can't see Young giving an order to do that. Not without a really, really, really good reason. And even then, I can't actually see him giving that order. Maybe others can, but I can't.Me neither. Obviously it weighs heavy on him as made clear by "Trial and Error", but at this point I don't get why Greer thinks that he'd be forced to execute her as their only option...or that was my interpretation of their conversation.

I guess the most extreme option was a big burden on him and wanted forgiveness if it ever came to that. That he'd take it upon himself to be the one...even taking that burden from Young.

The only thing I could think of that would make her a liability is if she became telepathic or something to the point where she could control people or control the ship in that manner. Then she becomes a big problem, but the Blues didn't seem to have that ability so I don't see something that compromising happening.


And while I'm on the subject, I'm wondering if Young and Greer have actually talked about this possibility, or if Greer has simply assumed that it's going to happen and he'll be the one to "execute" Chloe. While that was an emotional scene and all that, I'm sort of finding that potential resolution to be excessive in the extreme.Ditto.

I wonder that as well. Though I imagine that if it really came to that, Young would never make someone else do it. He'd do it himself.

The Mighty 6 platoon
November 24th, 2010, 05:08 PM
Brian J. Smith mentioned on his twitter account today:

Hmm I'm also in agreement.

Anyway it was a nice little episode, with some good scenes and great acting. It left a lot open to interpretation, but I personally believe that it's quite possible that the aliens couldn’t put the humans quite right. For all their power one has to remember fixing a person and fixing tech aren’t quite the same and the aliens have probably never seen anything like a human before.

Anyway looking forward to next week, looks action packed.

RJLCyberPunk
November 24th, 2010, 05:33 PM
I do not agree.


The kinos showed him sitting in the shuttle with a blanket around him trying to keep warm. The next thing we hear is "Please, I don't want to die.". The next thing we see is a burst of light enveloping the entire shuttle, blinding the kino.


So what that shows is the aliens did care because they responded to a plea of help. If you do not care you do not respond to a plea for help. Nor would the obelisk beings create an entirely new shuttle and entirely new people and send them back to the Destiny.

That was a huge act of compassion, if mishandled due to some sort of misunderstanding by the obelisk beings.

I think you are on too something I think the aliens thought they only needed to temporary fix the damage to the colonists bodies because after scanning the shuttle's technology they figured they must have the technology to save them, they had no way of knowing that they did not. Had they only pleaded for help earlier they would all be alive. As for TJs dream sadly it must have been Destiny itself that placed it there, Destiny just like the Obelisk Aliens had no way of knowing that the colonists would be returned and the little dream of faith, hope and comfort it had given TJ would be shattered as it was.



Just a few observations.
Tree lady was dead for months and was not on the shuttle.

I thought I saw tree chopper guy walk out of the shuttle after talking with Caine, ending his pain. Again, not on the shuttle.

I think since the colony was now dead, the aliens sent them home for last rites. Repairing the shuttle was necessary to survive the trip.

Caine will die watching the stars with TJ. Note how he was suffering hypothermia as they sat. He only had minutes left.

I disagree, the reason they stepped in is because finally someone pleaded for help and only at the very end, had they done it earlier they would all be alive and of a prettier color too.

Lord Vader
November 24th, 2010, 06:09 PM
Asking an alien species to revive them from the dead is a pretty big request. Its a shocker they could do it temporarily.

I don't really think so; the, in comparison, it would appear, extremely primitive Goa'uld had technology that could properly and permanently bring someone back from the dead... with no side-effects either unless it was used too much.

I suspect the message here is either 1. The Obelisk builders really are just advanced aliens who couldn't fully resurrect the dead or, in my opinion more likely 2. the Obelisk builders are even more God-like than we think and intentionally reanimated them temporarily. After all, the whole "they died in the same way they originally died on the planet" thing seems pretty weird.

marty2006
November 24th, 2010, 06:44 PM
Well at least those jesus freaks bit the bullet and we got a new shuttle into the bargain. Also Greer and emotions? wtf!

jelgate
November 24th, 2010, 06:58 PM
Well at least those jesus freaks bit the bullet and we got a new shuttle into the bargain. Also Greer and emotions? wtf!

As far as I recall thier religion was never clearly identified.

marty2006
November 24th, 2010, 07:03 PM
As far as I recall thier religion was never clearly identified.

Well seeing as its a show being made primarily for American audiences and after hearing them pray in an episode last season it was an easy decision to come to that they were of the Christian faith.

jelgate
November 24th, 2010, 07:04 PM
Well seeing as its a show being made primarily for American audiences and after hearing them pray in an episode last season it was an easy decision to come to that they were of the Christian faith.

Thats a sterotype.

marty2006
November 24th, 2010, 07:05 PM
Thats a sterotype.

Fair enough but my second point still stands.

jelgate
November 24th, 2010, 07:12 PM
Fair enough but my second point still stands.

Not to me it doesn't. Being American doesn't automatically mean a person is Christian. Many religions are practiced in that country so until its clearly stated its seems unwise to just assume a person's belief

marty2006
November 24th, 2010, 07:21 PM
Not to me it doesn't. Being American doesn't automatically mean a person is Christian. Many religions are practiced in that country so until its clearly stated its seems unwise to just assume a person's belief

Many religions are practiced in many countries but each country will have its primary religion. So when a large group of people within the show are saying a christian prayer and the show is developed primarily for a nation which the most common religion is christianity then i think its relatively safe to assume that the writers intended religion for the characters was christianity.

jelgate
November 24th, 2010, 07:23 PM
Many religions are practiced in many countries but each country will have its primary religion. So when a large group of people within the show are saying a christian prayer and the show is developed primarily for a nation which the most common religion is christianity then i think its relatively safe to assume that the writers intended religion for the characters was christianity.

I say its jumping to conclusions. All we know is prayer was used. Many religions use prayer. It was never clearly established what the religion was.

marty2006
November 24th, 2010, 07:39 PM
I say its jumping to conclusions. All we know is prayer was used. Many religions use prayer. It was never clearly established what the religion was.

The words our father who art in heaven hallowed be my name were used. I beg your pardon if these are used in prayer for another religion but not to my knowledge.

jelgate
November 24th, 2010, 07:41 PM
The words our father who art in heaven hallowed be my name were used. I beg your pardon if these are used in prayer for another religion but not to my knowledge.

I don't recall those words in Visitation. Even if they were they could be applied to all the Abramanic religions

marty2006
November 24th, 2010, 07:43 PM
I don't recall those words in Visitation. Even if they were they could be applied to all the Abramanic religions

Well you could apply them to anything you want. The point is that its a christian prayer.

Shan Bruce Lee
November 24th, 2010, 07:43 PM
I thought the stuff with Greer and Chloe was the best part of the episode. That and settling the story with TJ's baby.

The main story was pretty good, but compared to what they've done the last few weeks it wasn't as good. I thought it was funny they mentioned BAG. The stuff with Rush and Eli both getting into it a little with Caine was good, too.

jelgate
November 24th, 2010, 07:47 PM
Well you could apply them to anything you want. The point is that its a christian prayer.

Which is yet to be proven if it can be used by other religions

marty2006
November 24th, 2010, 07:50 PM
Which is yet to be proven if it can be used by other religions

Now your just being facetious.

jelgate
November 24th, 2010, 07:53 PM
Now your just being facetious.

Nope. I'm just not making assumptions because something is vague

Kaiphantom
November 24th, 2010, 08:00 PM
From JM's blog:

Nathan writes: “The kind of aliens that would put people back with their friends and kind of family, knowing they’d just die. How horrible is that!?!?”

Answer: The aliens didn’t know they would just end up dying again. They assumed they had “fixed” them.

Similar to what Brian said. But I really have to wonder; the Goa'uld could bring people back to life, and carbon-based lifeforms wouldn't be too hard for a race to figure out, that was smart enough to create a star and a planet that had carbon-based life on it.

And the way the people died almost felt like they had just wound back time for those 8. It's a really strange way to bring them back to life. Technically speaking, all you have to restore the body to optimum condition and get things flowing again. If they could do that with the shuttle, they should have been able to do that with the humans, otherwise we are dealing with some pretty stupid advanced aliens.

At this point, it makes more sense to assume the aliens never intended them to bring them totally back to life, but just give them time to say goodbyes to their friends on Destiny.

Muldoon
November 24th, 2010, 08:15 PM
The words our father who art in heaven hallowed be my name were used.

And this prayer is from the New Testament gospels, so even though there is nothing explicitly Christian about the words, it is much more likely to be spoken by a Christian like Lieutenant Scott than someone else. We really have no idea who Greer addresses his prayers to.

Blackhole
November 24th, 2010, 08:18 PM
I really liked this episode. It was a bit creepy and very sad. I liked Chloe and her kino videos. I liked Greer going to Chloe and asking for forgiveness for having to kill her when/if she turns. I liked Chloe and Eli's friendship. Even the Chloe and Scott scenes were pretty good.
I liked Caine and TJ' s scenes. The last scene between them was very sad, but it was probably my favorite part. I think Cain is dead; he did say that he remembered dying and its the one thing no one should have to remember. He was the last to die on the planet so he was alone and he said he prayed and then he and the others were in the shuttle but couldn't remember what happened to them. Maybe the Faith aliens felt bad in the way that everyone died because the only reason they stayed was because they believed; so maybe they wanted to give the people who stayed behind a chance to be with the the rest of he crew; to say goodbye, tell them what happened and not die alone, but among their own people. The beings were powerful, but not all powerful.

Good post. Interesting rational for why the Faith planet crew was returned to Destiny. You would think if they had the power to resurrect them then they could have kept them alive... but maybe not.

Shan Bruce Lee
November 24th, 2010, 08:31 PM
Well staying with the shuttle probably seemed like the safe bet and a sure thing right up until it broke.

And it probably was.


I frickin' hate Caine.

I don't even know what he's doing on an advanced space ship with a bunch of scientists, when the only thing he's done so far in every episode is preach, and not even in a smart way. I mean I see why faith would be an interesting theme, but he comes across as a fundamentalist cultist or something. If anything, that's what's offputting to me about him, not the fact that he had no soul in this episode.

The cosmic microwave background radiation pattern thing is interesting, but I can't believe Rush considers it to be a "sign of intelligence" just because it's a clear pattern. This is a massive logical flaw that any real skeptic or scientist will point out, and skeptics have used this argument against intelligent design for a long time now, long enough that I wish I wouldn't have to see brilliant scientist characters making this mistake.

This is the third modern sci-fi show now that will probably end with "god did it". First BSG (in an interesting way), then LOST (blatantly and annoyingly) and now Stargate. :mad:

That's not how LOST ended.


I think this episode made the show a little worse. Viewers don't need answers to everything.

Before this episode we had a nice little mystery, and could discuss and imagine what had happened to the 7 people left in the planet. (And the writers could have kept them for an episode in the future. Or hell: Used them for a whole new series!)

But nope, they had to ruin the mystery, and waste the 7 on an episode that seemed to have no real purpose other than equip the Destiny with a new shuttle. Bummer.

They did that.


I was talking about Twiter in general. Thats a pretty big tweet. I can't see how TPTB would disapprove of what he said. He wasn't negative towards the writing and he didn't unleash spoilers. Thats usually the two big nos from the writers unless your Robert Cartyle who releases spoilers anyway:P

There are apps that let you tweet longer and it just takes the first 125 characters and links tot he rest.

vszulc
November 24th, 2010, 08:49 PM
Its not about anyone being a smart---. Its about people being tired of posts like yours which try to hold EVERY episode of SGU to a standard that no other series was expected to be held to. What was the point of any episode of SG1 or SGA? What was the point of any episode of any show that aired this week?

Yup, that's how bad its gotten. Even fans of SGU don't know what to say anymore, and prefer to try to change the subject, or talk about other shows if somebody brings up the molasses-like speed of the show, or episodes on autoplay with no point and little plot.

Wonder what will happen next?
How's Rush's chess board coming along? Will Chloe finally convince Eli to start jogging? And is that really a nervous tick that young is developing?
Stay tuned for next weeks episode!

AVFan
November 24th, 2010, 09:13 PM
Now your just being facetious.

Regardless of which religion they were from, I think it's awfully hater-ish to want somebody to die because they're of a certain religion. I'm not saying you have to agree with them, but I'm pretty sure they deserve a chance at life the same as you do.

Anyway, back to the original topic of this thread... It seems as though the episode was just a chance to get us a new shuttle. Other than that, there were no status changes between the beginning of the episode and the end of the episode.

pipi
November 24th, 2010, 10:29 PM
I'm just thankful Wray is a lesbian. It would be so wrong if she was Bi-sexual. Heaven forbid any more Destiny romance.

senilegreen
November 24th, 2010, 11:06 PM
1. If they move to the south, they will lose the shuttle, so they don't want to lose the only shelter.
2. There is no sign of animals there, not mention bees, so there is no wax.

Okay... then from what did they make candles? Traditionally candles, if not made from found wax, would be made from changing animal products. You could use plant fats, but that would require some processing of collected plant oils (which implies an even harder process), and plants which produce enough natural wax aren't normally found in the cooler climates.

On your first point - yeah, that is the problem. Namely, these are supposed to have been bright people, trained scientists. They should be able to evaluate their options - shelter without a heat source vs. moving to where they are warmer but have to build a shelter. They should have realized that the planet has definite seasons (from the deciduous plants), and without a fuel supply (though I still fail to see why the couldn't just have collected and burnt all the wood around them) would have realized that their situation was going to get worse, and certainly someone would have thought: "gee, maybe we should go to somewhere warmer?"

The writers just made them look too stupid.

SGeff
November 24th, 2010, 11:57 PM
Okay... then from what did they make candles? Traditionally candles, if not made from found wax, would be made from changing animal products. You could use plant fats, but that would require some processing of collected plant oils (which implies an even harder process), and plants which produce enough natural wax aren't normally found in the cooler climates.

On your first point - yeah, that is the problem. Namely, these are supposed to have been bright people, trained scientists. They should be able to evaluate their options - shelter without a heat source vs. moving to where they are warmer but have to build a shelter. They should have realized that the planet has definite seasons (from the deciduous plants), and without a fuel supply (though I still fail to see why the couldn't just have collected and burnt all the wood around them) would have realized that their situation was going to get worse, and certainly someone would have thought: "gee, maybe we should go to somewhere warmer?"

The writers just made them look too stupid.

1. When they first arrived the planet, they suppose to stay for a month. Young would ask them to bring some wax, make some candles for lightening. Make sense?

2. That just a matter of opinion. They don't know how long the winter would last. Yes now we see they frozen to death, we say how stupid they are not moving to south. How convenient! If they do start move, they could get lost, starved to death as well. Just because this option is a bad option, doesn't the other one could be better. In fact, in the episode Peter does decided to move not wait for the death, but still end up dead.

By the way you don't know when the heat went off, it may off during the long winter season, so it could be between a shelter with the heat source vs. moving to somewhere you don't know.

morbosfist
November 25th, 2010, 12:11 AM
That all assumes this planet's climate even acts anything like Earth's. Plants grow according to seasons, yes, but these plants may not conform to our growing seasons. It also assumes they can find a north and south, and that they have a compass of some kind (the ship could probably do that, I'll grant). It also assumes they could outpace the winter, since we don't even know where they are relative to the planet or how large the landmass they occupy is. Might not even be near the equator.

Sure, on Earth, this would work. On an alien planet, it's another story.

themeangel
November 25th, 2010, 12:17 AM
Yea what was the point of this episode? It seemed to be partly about Faith. Wrapped up in a Very morbid Story.

SGeff
November 25th, 2010, 12:21 AM
From JM's blog:

Nathan writes: “The kind of aliens that would put people back with their friends and kind of family, knowing they’d just die. How horrible is that!?!?”

Answer: The aliens didn’t know they would just end up dying again. They assumed they had “fixed” them.


I normally would agree with JM, and I like his blog too. But this time I have to disagree. The alien powerful enough to build a star, don't know whether or not they fix the body? Really? More likely they don't intent to fix them.

LunaSolTierra
November 25th, 2010, 12:21 AM
The scene with Greer and Chloe was one of the most interesting scenes I've seen, it definitely show a more human side of Greer. Overall I thought this episode was creepy, but I also think this is part of something bigger, or something that will happen in a future episode. There has to be a reason why the aliens did this. I mean why give TJ a vision of her baby being fine on the planet only to shatter her hopes weeks later. The people on Eden had die months before so why now did they decide to show up with a brand new shuttle and a living dead crew. There has to be something going on and I'm hoping we find either on the next episode or on the second half of the season. This episode has left me confuse but also with curiosity.

Kelara
November 25th, 2010, 12:40 AM
Well, excuse me for asking a serious question.... You're implying all kinds of stuff about me with your response and i hope you're not doing this with every other SGU-fan around here, because there aren't that many left. I'm seriously considering leaving this board, because i really don't like responses like yours. So thank you for ruining this thread.

Don't worry, you're at least not alone with your question. I'm having a hard time figuring out the point of the episode, too.

I mean, it was a filler that provided some intense character moments and it somewhat tied up some plotstrings, but:

What's the point of the aliens copying the Faithful and sending them back? Closure? If so, why would the Super Aliens care? And what does it achieve to send them back and make everyone watch them die off (again)? Did the Aliens only make one copy of the Faithful or are we gonna see them again (and again and again... which would be good for the shuttle supply ;))? Or is it to show that those Super Aliens aren't all powerful, because they might move/ create planets and suns, they can only make people come back to life for a few days before they "expire"?

Lots of new questions, for sure!

SGeff
November 25th, 2010, 12:48 AM
Well, excuse me for asking a serious question.... You're implying all kinds of stuff about me with your response and i hope you're not doing this with every other SGU-fan around here, because there aren't that many left. I'm seriously considering leaving this board, because i really don't like responses like yours. So thank you for ruining this thread.

For your question, I think this episode is mainly about what happened to the Faith crew. To me, it is a closure, nice to find out what happened, sad it ends that way. I am sure there are people like me would like an episode about background episode. Remember there is one episode about Nikki and Paulo in Lost.

The Faith crew is part of the destiny crew, so find out what happened to them is something relate to the plot line, not meaningless. And they still manage to develop some main character, like Greer, Chloe and TJ.

And please don't start an argument, the title of the thread does look suspecious, I am sure you could think out something better.

Kelara
November 25th, 2010, 12:59 AM
For your question, I think this episode is mainly about what happened to the Faith crew. To me, it is a closure, nice to find out what happened, sad it ends that way.

You sure this is where it ends? If they're really copies and not just "reset" bodies, like Caine seems to suggest to TJ, there could be more out there. Just as a thought.

wolverine_nl
November 25th, 2010, 01:31 AM
I think the Faith aliens just gave us a few messages.
1. Do not stop what you are doing, finish this mission (they may be interested in the outcome)
2. Please do not try to make contact with us, we are too advanced.
3. We respect faith, you can say your goodbyes, but we are not allowed to let them live like nothing happened to them, they are mere messengers and not the originals with all their memories intact.
4. Telling TJ what she needed to hear to make her stronger again (still not 100% sure that Destiny had a full hand in her vision/dream)

Shiarnaq
November 25th, 2010, 01:53 AM
I really hated the episode and the build up to it that was in previous episodes. Caine was an annoying character in Faith and they found a way to make him even more preachy and annoying.

I find myself extremely annoyed with all the religious crap and the constant talk or insinuation of god. Look, while I personally don't believe in anything, as long as people don't try to shove their beliefs down my throat and their beliefs have no influence on my freedoms I really don't have a problem with what anyone wants to believe.
But this is different, religion doesn't have a place in Stargate, at least it shouldn't.

In the real world we don't have any proof if the existence or non-existence of a deity and there are many mysteries to which we don't know the answer. In the Stargate universe, they have indisputable evidence that a large portion of the gods worshipped by humankind through history were in fact a more advanced alien race posing as gods. They also know that this isn't a rarity, the Goa'uld did it, the Asgard did it, the Ancients did it, the Ori did it, those aliens that posed as spirits to the native American tribe on the naquadria planet did it and probably more I've forgotten. They also know that a ton of legends that were passed on through human history are true but in fact quite different and almost all having alien involvement, Atlantis, Merlin the wizard, Thor's hammer, crystal skulls, ... They also know that it is possible for physical beings to transform into energy and ascend to become beings with godlike abilities, including appearing to physical beings as visions, light or simply in human form. And they also know that there have been ascended beings that have created their own religion and fed on the worship and prayers of physical beings for their own benefit.
Everyone involved with the Stargate program has this knowledge and yet there are still morons like Scott, Greer and Caine who talk nonsense about faith, praying and souls. While Scott and Greer may just be the brawn, you'd think a scientist like Caine would see all this evidence and think: "if it has happened so many times before that people got fooled by more advanced races into believing they're gods, why would I be the exception".

What have we really seen in SGU that is so special that can't be explained with things we've seen in Stargate before? Sure creating a star or solar system is a new one but we've already seen that space can be manipulated by technology, Carter destroyed a star, McKay blew up a solar system, the aliens that terraformed a planet in a matter of days, the Asgard that can turn energy into matter. An advanced race that has better knowledge of the workings of the universe, perhaps more than even the Ancients, creating a star through the use of technology isn't far fetched, I don't get why everyone on the Destiny seems to think that makes them somehow all powerful and all knowing.
The shuttle making it back to Destiny, brand new. Any race with some knowledge of Ancient technology and the proper equipment could have repaired that shuttle, it's not like it's a very advanced ship. We've seen many ways for instant or almost instant travel through space in the Stargate universe before. The Asgard could travel between their galaxy and ours in a matter of hours and ofcourse a Stargate can transport matter between galaxies (maybe the Faith aliens have a more portable way than the Stargate). Not to mention, we've seen that in the Stargate universe there are an infinite amount of parallel universes, an infinite amount of alternate realities and a ton of different phases, we've also seen that traveling between these is possible and instantaneous. Who's to say the shuttle and the Faith crew are even from the same universe or reality as the Destiny crew?
Dead people coming back to life. The Goa'uld sarcophagus could revive people if the injuries weren't too severe, we've seen a ton of different healing devices over the years and ofcourse there's that Ancient device that could revive even dead tissue and make zombies out of dead people. A version 2.0 perhaps?
As for the CBR, there's a ton of possible explanations, if you follow the big bang big crunch cycle theory it could be leftovers from the universe that preceded ours. If you go with the multiverse theory it could be a message from an alternate universe or reality that predated ours. Or perhaps it's a message from the first living race that lived in the universe. Who's to say, the possibilities are limitless. But with all the knowledge everyone involved with the Stargate program has, it's completely ridiculous and illogical for anyone to still use a god, coming from an earth myth to explain a mystery. /end rant

Pecisk
November 25th, 2010, 03:25 AM
But this is different, religion doesn't have a place in Stargate, at least it shouldn't.


Errr, as far as I remember Stargate has *always* been about Science versus Religion and Faith. Just take Goa'uld and Ori. In this ep Rush was openly skeptical and in the end, it showed that blind faith almost always ends badly. In this ep skeptics won and in fact, obelisk planet aliens showed that their intentions are strange and frightening. They aren't openly hostile, but they like to screw with us. I think in not such God Caine wanted to believe in.

Kelara
November 25th, 2010, 03:52 AM
That all assumes this planet's climate even acts anything like Earth's. Plants grow according to seasons, yes, but these plants may not conform to our growing seasons. It also assumes they can find a north and south, and that they have a compass of some kind (the ship could probably do that, I'll grant). It also assumes they could outpace the winter, since we don't even know where they are relative to the planet or how large the landmass they occupy is. Might not even be near the equator.

Sure, on Earth, this would work. On an alien planet, it's another story.

Bolded parts have most certainly been found out in Faith (poles, kind of magnetic field, size and distribution of landmasses, even seasons due to the planet's rotation). They did not blindly crashland somewhere, they charted the planet to some degree from Destiny or the shuttle, so the relative position should not have been a mystery and the weeks they spent there sure let them calculate seasons (if they were no too busy playing soccer, that is ;)).

Also, all you need to build a compass is a magnet, some small iron part, a container, some water and something to float the iron part on. Children do it at school, so a bunch of trained adults surely can manage this feat. The magnet is the only item that's a little harder to find, but there's probably one in the shuttle guts.

Jumper_One
November 25th, 2010, 04:35 AM
Nathan writes: “The kind of aliens that would put people back with their friends and kind of family, knowing they’d just die. How horrible is that!?!?”

Answer: The aliens didn’t know they would just end up dying again. They assumed they had “fixed” them.

Ponytail writes: “If they are all dead now, either the baby is too or it was never there.”

Answer: Considering Caine had no knowledge of baby Carmen, the latter theory seems to hold more weight.

Jason writes: “So the events in tonights episode directly contradict T.J.’s vision. However, her vision had a strong sign/prediction suggesting it was true (the nebula). Will this ever be resolved in the series, or is it left to the viewer to decide?”

Answer: Well, given Destiny’s ability to detect cosmic phenomena (see next episode), one might assume the ship fashioned the vision in a way that it would appear true to T.J. in order to spare her the pain of losing her daughter. Either that or there’s more to the vision than everyone assumes.

Valaur writes: “At the end of ‘Visitation’, we see that Kane in fact does live to tell the tale rather than die like his fellows. Or does he?”

Answer: He doesn’t.

Shannon writes: “Why does sci-fi always revert to the Deists (I won’t call Caine Christian because technically his particular faith is never revealed) being touchy feely flighty types?”

Answer: I didn’t find Caine to be either touchy-feely or flighty. He was a clearly a man of science whose outlook was informed by his faith. Like you, his beliefs did not preclude him from accepting the logic of science. Ultimately, when faced with an inexplicable otherworldly scenario, he chose to trust in God rather than the mysterious god-like powers of benign aliens. And, in the end, even if the latter explanation proved more likely, he remained steadfast and strong in his faith. I found that admirable rather than a show of weakness.
http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2010/11/24/november-24-2010-comic-haul-the-return-of-the-weird-food-purchase-of-the-day-snow-monkeys-go-for-their-sixth-win-eight-games/

theta123
November 25th, 2010, 05:28 AM
my guess is Caine lives

offtopic but
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKy4BdOVsZI

In the name of Kane!
Kane lives in death!

AndSoItBegins
November 25th, 2010, 05:29 AM
Well, excuse me for asking a serious question.... You're implying all kinds of stuff about me with your response and i hope you're not doing this with every other SGU-fan around here, because there aren't that many left. I'm seriously considering leaving this board, because i really don't like responses like yours. So thank you for ruining this thread.

I don't care if you leave the board or set up rent in this forum for the next decade. My life will go on regardless.

I found your question to be silly. And your title with its "So....(pause)" to be clear in its intent. It came across as intentionally sarcastic.

I'll ask again what is the point of any episode? The answer is to tell a story. Now one may not like the story told but that's besides the point. Not every SGU episode has to lead to some major shift in the direction of the ship, the show or a character’s life. Certainly that didn't happen in every or even most of the episodes of SG1 and SGA.

In this episode, in case you don't know, we got the return of crew members who had abandon Destiny back in season one. Their sudden appearance was a mystery to all involved. In the end everyone learns that these returned crew members died on "Eden" but had been brought back to life and returned to Destiny. Why? No one knows the answers. Not yet. On this show after all the writers don't try to wrap up everything with a neat little bow by the time the closing credit pops up. Some folks may not like that but by now if they aren't at least used to it then they are oblivious to the pattern. Since its a heavily serialized show what occurred in the ep could have larger repercussions down the line. Who knows. Is it important? Depends on who you ask.

So what we got was an episode that dealt with the themes of both death and faith with a nice bookend conversation between TJ and Caine that goes along with the conversation TJ may have imagined having with Caine in the second season premiere. We learned the fates of the crew members from Eden which meant we got not only a follow-up but a conclusion on their story (with the possible exception of Caine) as well. We did get evidence of the presence of the mysterious aliens of that world which suggests they will be touched upon again sometime down the road (and best of all they remain mysterious....not every mystery in space needs to be explained except I guess to viewers of American TV who want everything pointed out to them). We also got more of Chloe's storyline with two major developments : 1-Chloe's resigned acceptance of her fate and coming death and 2-how crew members are painfully being affected by what's happening to her. Of course some people who think that the Chloe storyline should be handled in a shorter amount of time (probably in a two-parter like it would back in the day of self-contained stories of the previous Stargate series) are going to feel such a storyline is "boring". But for good or bad the guys at SGU has made character driven stuff more of a priority than action stuff. That may not be your cup of tea but if anyone is still whining about that at this stage of game then I say once more they haven't been paying attention. In terms of character moments the episode provided several golden moments.

And, oh yeah, Destiny got back a shuttle which a lot of you seemed to notice and make sarcastic remarks about. I don't have a problem with how a shuttle was returned to them. There were far worse ways for the ship to get a shuttle (like coming across an abandoned one drifting in space...conveniently). When TPTB had the remaining shuttle destroyed in episode two they knew they would be giving them back one in ep nine since they plan these storylines and arcs out in advance. I simply appreciate that the ship never had an endless supply of shuttles like Star Trek: Voyager and that the crew of Destiny had to adjust to situations (such as "The Greater Good") in which it had no shuttle to rely on.

Was there anything else I missed? Oh, there was. Edited to point out the episode touched upon the whole subplot regarding TJ's baby. My take on it is that the baby is dead but now TJ may be at a better mental stage to move on from the whole ordeal.

AndSoItBegins
November 25th, 2010, 05:37 AM
Yup, that's how bad its gotten. Even fans of SGU don't know what to say anymore, and prefer to try to change the subject, or talk about other shows if somebody brings up the molasses-like speed of the show, or episodes on autoplay with no point and little plot.

Actually no. I knew what to say, I just felt it was ridiculous to have to point everything out (which I ended up having to do in my previous post anyhow). Just because one doesn't want to extend himself in a needless flamewar or answer inane qestions doesn't mean that one is running away from the topic. My original point stands: you can ask that same stupid question about "the point" for almost every episode of every show you see on TV. The answer though should be clear: to tell a story.



Wonder what will happen next?
How's Rush's chess board coming along? Will Chloe finally convince Eli to start jogging? And is that really a nervous tick that young is developing?
Stay tuned for next weeks episode!

Yeah, it certainly can't hold a candle to those other great questions of our time such as What glowing-eye bad guy will Jack ultimately beat at the end of an episode's runtime? How many jokes can Shep come up with this week? How many minutes will McKay waste rolling his eyes as he tries to clue in his other crew members with his technobabble rants? Good times.

Jacdru
November 25th, 2010, 05:55 AM
Was it meant to end an unfinished storyline, like the one from the people on the planet and TJ's baby?

Was it a cheap way to give us back a brandnew shuttle?

Was it to further introduce these aliens and are we going to meet these mysterious aliens in one of the coming episodes?

What was the deal with the whole Chloe-Greer thing?

Or was it just a rich 'filler' episode?

The point of this episode was to be a filler and to give Destiny back a shuttle, since they are going to need one for future episodes nothing else.

Because the other stories in this episode was just to stupid and i think the writers must think their viewers are complety and utter idiots because who would belive that the Eden people would actually be so stupid that they wouldn´t have been able to build a shelter or build a "door" for the shuttle, which by the way is built to withstand the cold of space.

Also the story with Chole was a utter disgrace, but i guess the eye-candy needed some screentime again.

thefluxmachine
November 25th, 2010, 06:03 AM
Ya.. most always the setup does pay off.... but that scene with Greer and Chloe... man..... kinda powerful eh? Surprised its not getting more buzz :S
True, true!

Greer is solid, and the fact that they grew his character in that scene has given him a new dimension. That is the only Chloe scene that I didn't skip through in this ep. Deep!

Forgiveness faith and resurrection in one episode. Interesting theme. :)

vszulc
November 25th, 2010, 06:06 AM
n this episode, in case you don't know, we got the return of crew members who had abandon Destiny back in season one. Their sudden appearance was a mystery to all involved.[QUOTE]
Yes. And it had absolutely nothing to do with the main plot, and we were left with more questions than answers. So that part accomplished nothing.

[QUOTE]In the end everyone learns that these returned crew members died on "Eden" but had been brought back to life and returned to Destiny. Why? No one knows the answers.
Yes.. The answer to why they were brought back for like 15 minutes probably rates as a little more interesting than what they have for breakfast on the Destiny, but far below how Eli against the laws of nature doesn't lose weight. Which brings us back to what was the purpose again. Mysteries and questions have to lead somewhere. A question for the sake of having a question is just lazy writing.


We did get evidence of the presence of the mysterious aliens of that world
Which we had all along though.


We also got more of Chloe's storyline with two major developments : 1-Chloe's resigned acceptance of her fate and coming death and 2-how crew members are painfully being affected by what's happening to her.
Yes... Too bad the writers never explained WHY everyone is freaking out, when the only symptoms so far, has been that she's good at math, and sometimes zones out. Scary! Did you see how she solved that equation? She's doomed allright! And possibly very dangerous!


But for good or bad the guys at SGU has made character driven stuff more of a priority than action stuff.
But since when does "character driven" equal slow and glacialpaced? Most of the good drama I've seen is well paced.
Do the writers put up a huge sign saying: "Drama equals 50% slower + 50% more talkie! Also: questions good! Answers bad! Villains often twirl moustache!"
Slow pace does NOT necessarily equal drama or quality.


I don't have a problem with how a shuttle was returned to them.
Well fine, but a lot of us have a problem with stuff just appearing more or less by magic. It's lazy writing. If you know you'll need a shuttle later, than don't crash it cause you want to off a character. Do it another way. And if you can't think of one, maybe its time to write for commercial, or hang up the keys to the franchise.

vszulc
November 25th, 2010, 06:19 AM
Actually no. I knew what to say, I just felt it was ridiculous to have to point everything out (which I ended up having to do in my previous post anyhow). Just because one doesn't want to extend himself in a needless flamewar or answer inane qestions doesn't mean that one is running away from the topic. My original point stands: you can ask that same stupid question about "the point" for almost every episode of every show you see on TV. The answer though should be clear: to tell a story.
Yeah, it certainly can't hold a candle to those other great questions of our time such as What glowing-eye bad guy will Jack ultimately beat at the end of an episode's runtime? How many jokes can Shep come up with this week? How many minutes will McKay waste rolling his eyes as he tries to clue in his other crew members with his technobabble rants? Good times.

Again: Comparisons to other shows doesn't make this show better, especially as they were so different thematically.
Also: You seem to ignore that those shows had the basics like plot, pacing and characters down, which makes the number of eyerolls pr. episode an interesting, but inconsequential statistic.

How do we know they had those down? Ratings and number of casual viewers told us that, even if you subscribe to the misconception that a quality show equals low ratings, or that few people watching means that its somehow "too smart."

tomalak
November 25th, 2010, 07:01 AM
Again: Comparisons to other shows doesn't make this show better, especially as they were so different thematically.
Also: You seem to ignore that those shows had the basics like plot, pacing and characters down, which makes the number of eyerolls pr. episode an interesting, but inconsequential statistic.

How do we know they had those down? Ratings and number of casual viewers told us that, even if you subscribe to the misconception that a quality show equals low ratings, or that few people watching means that its somehow "too smart."

I don't understand how some people are still following the ancient myth that "low ratings = few viewers" or vice versa.

We all know that marketers and networks have nothing else to go on statistically, so it's important for them .. but for the casual person writing on an internet forum to resort to backing up his argument with viewing ratings is just lazy.

Is there a Nielsen box attached to *your* TV? Not unless you're part of 0.02183% of the USA viewing public... never mind other countries. Awesome!

knowles2
November 25th, 2010, 08:31 AM
Hahaha what a bunch of smart*sses around here :D . I meant off course to ask: does this episode take a place in the main story-arc or was it more of a filler-and-tie-loose-ends episode?

It a main story arc.

This show serial in nature, so this could also be considered a episode where our questions are answered an new question arise.

Naonak
November 25th, 2010, 08:53 AM
Yes. And it had absolutely nothing to do with the main plot, and we were left with more questions than answers. So that part accomplished nothing.
I don't think it's too much of a leap to suggest that a group of phenomenally advanced aliens might be linked with an indication of advanced intelligence from the beginning of the universe.


Yes.. The answer to why they were brought back for like 15 minutes probably rates as a little more interesting than what they have for breakfast on the Destiny, but far below how Eli against the laws of nature doesn't lose weight. Which brings us back to what was the purpose again. Mysteries and questions have to lead somewhere. A question for the sake of having a question is just lazy writing.
And why are you assuming that it's not leading somewhere? This is clearly a show with long-term storylines, just because they don't spoonfeed us the answers by the end of the episode (or hell, even the season) doesn't mean they aren't coming.


Which we had all along though.
Perhaps, but this was certainly a much more direct involvement with Destiny and the crew on the aliens' part than we've seen so far.


How do we know they had those down? Ratings and number of casual viewers told us that, even if you subscribe to the misconception that a quality show equals low ratings, or that few people watching means that its somehow "too smart."
It's no more accurate to say that good ratings always means a quality show.

g.o.d
November 25th, 2010, 09:00 AM
so, probably the best episode so far, at least for me. I absolutely loved it. Character interaction was amazing, it reminded me SG-1 Meridian in some ways.

It was interesting TPTB didn't choose a happy reunion and instead of that Destiny crewmembers were very sceptic and some of them almost hostile towards "zombies" :)

it was also very touching when we learned their fate on Eden.

part about Chlose was amazing. I liked kino's messages and it's great to see TPTB have plans for Chloe since 111.

What else can I say? It was great episode :)

Small part of me hopes we'll meet the planet builders again and learn more about them. But another part wants them to stay a mystery. I remember what happend the ascended beings during SG-1 S9, S10 and AoT.

discussion about the God and faith was very well done.

xxxevilgrinxxx
November 25th, 2010, 09:31 AM
I find myself extremely annoyed with all the religious crap and the constant talk or insinuation of god. Look, while I personally don't believe in anything, as long as people don't try to shove their beliefs down my throat and their beliefs have no influence on my freedoms I really don't have a problem with what anyone wants to believe.
But this is different, religion doesn't have a place in Stargate, at least it shouldn't.
Except that it always has :)

zsozso
November 25th, 2010, 10:28 AM
but what was the 'purpose' of bringing them all back (and back to life), only to have them all die again?

if the aliens could reanimate them, why let them die again?

Simple: the writers had no usable idea for the episode so they recycled some stuff form the old Faith episode to fill the gap without affecting the whole storyline in the slightest. So, if you missed this episode you didn't really miss anything...

xxxevilgrinxxx
November 25th, 2010, 10:28 AM
I'm just thankful Wray is a lesbian. It would be so wrong if she was Bi-sexual. Heaven forbid any more Destiny romance.

I wonder if part of the reason for her orientation is to remove the notion of any Young/Wray sexual tension as a plotline? They have to deal with each other as people, where sexuality doesn't enter into it? That's sort of how I took it from the very beginning

zsozso
November 25th, 2010, 10:30 AM
Or was it just a rich 'filler' episode?

This is the closest to the truth, except for the "rich" part.
I would call it a poor / weak filler episode...

Cylykon
November 25th, 2010, 10:47 AM
Consider that you are the Faith aliens... a car drives by your nice new house with a nicely groomed yard and stops. A dog gets out and leaves a nice steaming pile in your yard. Then the car leaves, drives up the street and stops at their house. You finally get pretty annoyed at the stinky mess, scoop it up, put it in a bag, and leave it on the doorstep of your inconsiderate neighbor.

Visitation is the story of the neighbor who has no clue why there's a smelly turd left on their doorstep.

The writer's muse has no clothes.

StefanSGA
November 25th, 2010, 12:11 PM
Off course i'm very aware of the fact that SG1 and SGA were very different shows, with their story-of-the-week approach. SGU has been a show with a main story from the beginning, with almost each episode advancing the plot. This episode felt strangely out of place to me, because this episode doesn't seem to advance the story like most other episodes did. It felt like a SGA-episode: story of the week, with just some minor hints to a main story. My question wasn't meant to criticize the show, i'm a SGU fan and i enjoy the show. But again, this episode felt out of place because the main story is on the background again, some minor loose ends are taken care of and the episode seems to largely focus on an unimportant group of people and a storyline about aliens we still know nothing about. SGU has done very little filler up to this point, but this episode has yet to prove it's importance for future events.

Kaeb
November 25th, 2010, 12:11 PM
That's it just ignore my post entirely....

StefanSGA
November 25th, 2010, 12:18 PM
That's it just ignore my post entirely....

I'm sorry man, you were absolutely right. Excellent episode, BAG, the new shuttle, nice character moments, closure of the Eden-story line etc. But to me it feels like this episode could have easily stood on it's own, like most of SGA's episodes. But like i said, maybe we'll get some more info in the second half of the season after which we can say: ''Aaaw, that's why we focused 2 complete episodes on that alien species, Eden and the group that stayed behind".

Perelandra
November 25th, 2010, 02:17 PM
discussion about the God and faith was very well done. yes I agree 100%

Eternal Density
November 25th, 2010, 02:31 PM
IMHO the Faith aliens having the ability to create a planet and restore a shuttle doesn't mean they have the foolproof ability to restore life. Life is on a different level entirely. So it's not too surprising that they could have thought they'd fixed the crew but it didn't last.

Dr. Carter
November 25th, 2010, 03:11 PM
Was it meant to end an unfinished storyline, like the one from the people on the planet and TJ's baby?

Was it a cheap way to give us back a brandnew shuttle?

Was it to further introduce these aliens and are we going to meet these mysterious aliens in one of the coming episodes?
Personally, I think it was the above three. It was a means to show the crew that they are not alone, and someone is out there watching over them. Even though 'The Ancients' will not fully interfere, they will help the crew get past certain psychological obstacles.

T.J.'s traumatic loss and near death experience.
(Vision that she had of the ascended crew 'already dead'.)

Young's lack of confidence.
(Someone on the ship initiated the program. Right?)

Scot's issue with not meeting his step-father's expectations.
(Episode 'Water' I believe.)

Rush struggling with the loss of his wife.
(Why did she show up when Rush was alone 'on the bridge', and not when the crew was there?)

Crew dying on a far away planet, and being given a chance to say goodbye.
(Explains why they also didn't know about T.J.'s baby. Remember what the last missing crew member said before he past onward. Episode "Visitation".)

Even though these Ancients have new tricks, it would not be the first time they played god.

SGeff
November 25th, 2010, 04:42 PM
Simple: the writers had no usable idea for the episode so they recycled some stuff form the old Faith episode to fill the gap without affecting the whole storyline in the slightest. So, if you missed this episode you didn't really miss anything...

Well, your answer is lazy. This episode answered some questions left from Faith, mainly about what happened to the Caine's crew. Then throw out other questions: why did alien do that and are they the real ones.

That is actually how the well paced series do, answers some old questions and gives some new ones. If you missed this episode, then in one future episode, the planet builder actually showed up, which I think they will, you will have to ask one question: what happened to Caine.

The Destiny
November 25th, 2010, 04:50 PM
Is it necessary for every ep to be part of arc/storyline? SG1 and SGA had boatloads of filler episodes, there was never any complaining about it back in those days. I like a filler. A nice little single story that's not necessarily tied into the overall storyline. I doubt I would've been able to stand 20 episodes fighting the wraith for example. Some random stories or exploration once in a while.


If you missed this episode, then in one future episode, the planet builder actually showed up, which I think they will, you will have to ask one question: what happened to Caine.

No we wouldn't

We'd ask ourselves...

..what happened to B.A.G.?

Lainier
November 25th, 2010, 04:53 PM
Good episode. I like weird mysteries. I really enjoyed Caine and Rush discussing God. But the best part was Greer with Chloe: very emotive.

Dr. Carter
November 25th, 2010, 04:53 PM
IMHO the Faith aliens having the ability to create a planet and restore a shuttle doesn't mean they have the foolproof ability to restore life. Life is on a different level entirely. So it's not too surprising that they could have thought they'd fixed the crew but it didn't last.
Read my comments here:
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?78255-Are-the-planet-building-aliens-really-that-amazing&p=12107112&viewfull=1#post12107112
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?78255-Are-the-planet-building-aliens-really-that-amazing&p=12107160&viewfull=1#post12107160
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?78255-Are-the-planet-building-aliens-really-that-amazing&p=12107251&viewfull=1#post12107251
(Starts on post number 26 and goes to the bottom.)

Its the Ancients.

hedwig
November 25th, 2010, 06:52 PM
Is it necessary for every ep to be part of arc/storyline? SG1 and SGA had boatloads of filler episodes, there was never any complaining about it back in those days. I like a filler. A nice little single story that's not necessarily tied into the overall storyline. I doubt I would've been able to stand 20 episodes fighting the wraith for example. Some random stories or exploration once in a while.



No we wouldn't

We'd ask ourselves...

..what happened to B.A.G.?

Regardless of whether it furthered the storyline, I thought it was a very good episode. SG1 and SGA had stand-alone episodes, so why not SGU? :)

nx01a
November 25th, 2010, 06:55 PM
"Oh, look! Guests! Stay for dinner. Stay forever..."

The Good:
>Seeing those idiots who stayed behind get what they deserved for being so stupid. :cool:
>They called the planet Eden. Good. It's like naming a ship the Prometheus. You just know it's gonna end in tears.:D
>And scientists who couldn't fix the shuttle. Inept! Just like all the other scientists apart from Rush and Eli. Oh, they SO got what was coming to them.
>Young not caring about Volker.
>Young NOT being one of the people waiting to get alcohol. :)
>James being one of the people waiting to get alcohol. :( Poor thing must be still drowning her sorrows over Scott.
>TJ looking for answers about her baby. Obvious, sensible, and well acted.
>The dome! Nice to see it being fixed. It looks like quite the maze being grown in there. I wonder if anyone'll get chased through it?
>Cain telling TJ to get on with her life. When a dead guy tells you that, you listen!
>And isn't he just creepy? Cain is just so calm and serene when he talk about God. It's like he's one second away from killing everyone in the room.
>New shuttle! Was Destiny, like the shuttle, once silver with red highlights? Same colour choices as the alien vessel from a few weeks ago.
>Chloe coming to terms with her impending... something.
>Greer seems to be quite the all-rounder. Lover [Park], friend and trainer [Scott], friend and executioner [Chloe]. Good to see him still injured.
>Park: "OK, you're being too deep again." *whistle* That's how you get hamstring injuries, Greer.;)
>Wray knows hypnosis. It's crazy, but it was just too cool to really nitpick.
>Wray's creeped out a little by most people.:D
>Rush dissecting the shuttle's repair and the humans' disrepair as evidence against God being involved. Very nice.
>I guess the bald asian dude that Gateworld people were trying to save didn't make it. :D
>Is Cain really dead? Will he really die again? I half expected those viewing the Kino footage to run for the observation deck to save TJ, followed by a shot of Cain looking menacingly at her. To be honest, that's what I wished would have happened.

The Bad:
>Eli didn't have some comment to make about Ginn being dead and not coming back? Didn't question the Powers That Be [not tptb :D] in the slightest? He wasn't still rattled by her death? No comment about losing Ginn, now losing Chloe? Boo.
>I'm a bit confused. If the aliens came before he died, then why is he 'dead'? He says he remembers dying, right? Did the aliens kill him?
>TJ's baby may be with aliens who couldn't reanimate humans properly OR keep a living human alive [Cain]. What chance does a baby have? :(
>Just like the Kino appeared in the shuttle, the shuttle should have then disappeared. Or returned to its horribly damaged state.
>Why didn't the Planet Builders just send the people back to Destiny? Why send back the shuttle, too? Unless they didn't want anything left of them on the planet. :D Intergalactic garbage disposal. :D

The Ugly:
>I spent the first half waiting for something to go horribly wrong. Apart from Rush's talk about God and religion, it was rather boring.
>I truly hate god-like aliens who move in mysterious ways, their wonders to perform. You have all this power. Send the crew back to Earth! Help them somehow! Don't tow with life and send cryptic messages about existence via a woman's presumably dead baby and temporarily reanimated corpses. Come out and say it! Most of my problems with religion are crossing over with SGU. But I think that was what tptb wanted: the crossover, not necessarily the problems. The Planet Builders seem to say, via Cain, that TJ et al should complete Destiny's mission. Big whoop. If you've got all this power, why don't you just give them the answer and stop people from dying?! It's just like the ascended Ancients and their non-interference. It makes me sick.

The Verdict:
>Despite not being a horribly episode, I don't think I'll be revisiting it. I really dislike this faith/religion plot, but it seems that the ultimate 'mission' of Destiny ties into these Planet Builders.

hedwig
November 25th, 2010, 07:01 PM
With the questions about whether Cain was alive or had died, maybe he died just as the light appeared in answer to his plea for help. And the aliens then revived him right along with the rest of them. And the next memory for all of them was in the repaired shuttle as they came alongside the Destiny. Then, since he was the last to die on the planet, he was also about to be the last to die aboard the Destiny.

(*Just a random thought that flashed through my mind as I was reading some of these posts.*) :)

Pharaoh Atem
November 25th, 2010, 09:00 PM
discussion about the God and faith was very well done.

the writers have done a amazing job with that with this arc.

Pharaoh Atem
November 25th, 2010, 09:01 PM
Except that it always has :)

in one way or another

MattSilver 3k
November 26th, 2010, 12:01 AM
Blah blah. Good episode, not my favourite but not the disaster all the kids seem to be making it out to be. It's easy to say this episode's useless and all it achieved was getting a shiny new shuttle right in time for the midseason finale, but I think people are forgetting it's still a character show and all that, and the little things like debunking TJ's baby vision and trying to get her to move on, seeing the crew work together, have some great Eli/Chloe/Scott/Greer dynamic that really shows how far they've come... I wouldn't want to miss any of that just so we could have an episode that ends the same (We get a shuttle) but is all shooting and random explosions.

That said, what brought the episode down just a bit was the lack of continuation from Malice. Seriously, only the fact Greer had a sling seemed to reference the Ginn/Simeon debacle, and that sucked. What, we couldn't have had Eli say something, like in that first Kino recording, something like: "I'm losing Chloe... like I lost Ginn" or have Rush act like anything's changed instead of being all nonchalant and stuff? The presence of Greer's sling makes me think it really hasn't been that long since Ginn died, and it just doesn't feel like a good writing tactic - if you're going to rush Eli into a relationship and kill the girl off, at least let the repercussions of that affect him as the episodes go by. And if they're going to ignore that in a character episode like this one, what hope do we have of it getting mentioned in the next one (Which seems like big space battle action. Space 2.0).

Don't get me wrong - I liked a lot more in this episode than that one little niggle of dislike. I'm one of those weird ones that understands the show isn't trying to preach God to me - it's simply showing a bunch of characters that do believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and it's neat there's a diversity instead of a bunch of SUPER DUPER ATHEISTS running around and being dicks about it. I very much liked that the big aliens in Faith are really flawed in their way. They can make a planet but can't make a human 100% whole, and that's a good an indication as any that they'll either try and fail to help us again, or we can cross them off the list of helpful buddies.

The episode's tie-ins to Faith were good, and I'm glad it ended so badly, oddly enough. Not only was it a good sign that our alien buddies aren't that great, but it's near-realistic that the eight science types that get left behind can't save themselves from the environment. Suck on that, guys. Suck on that.

Yeah, let me get back on the part about how people are thinking this episode useless, but seriously - we could've gotten the shuttle back any way, sure, but how they did it is neat enough for me - the writers tied up the story of the Faith planet, killed off some folk in a very creepy way, tied up TJ's arc as started in Intervention without giving a happy ending, and gave us a neat subplot that fully lays out the feelings about Chloe... before something big happens to her (Calling it). Could've been worse, guys. Much worse.

SGeff
November 26th, 2010, 12:52 AM
MattSilver 3k, I agree with you. The episode is full of surprises, even I read all the spoilers, I didn't see it's coming.

The Ginn thing is the only thing bugs me too. After all, they met, fell in love, she got killed, the revenge. All in 2 eps, it happened so fast. I even want them to slow things down a little bit.

Does anyone know how many people they need to operate the Destiny? I count there're only 69 people left include 7 LAs and Caine. I assume they soon will have some newbies. But haven't heard anything about casting.

Jumper_One
November 26th, 2010, 01:28 AM
KEK writes: “So are we to assume that their lack of ‘soul’ is he reason they died again, or what that just Caines theory?”

Answer: No. It was a phsyiological design flaw (or re-design flaw to be more specific) that caused them to die again. The lack of soul (or perception thereof) was a failure/byproduct of the process.

Ben writes: “So, just for my peace of mind, what exactly happened to Caine? Is he dead, or still alive? He was still alive when the light appeared, but then he says he remembers his death. So, what’s going on there?”

Answer: One could draw the following conclusion from having watched the episode – Caine and the others died on the planet (in Caine’s case, it was on the heels of witnessing the white light). The planet’s caretakers/creators discovered them too late and sought to remedy the situation by restoring them to full functionality and reuniting them with Destiny. However, while constructing planets is easy, resurrecting once living beings is not and this resulted in – for lack of a better way of putting it – each of the restored human beings having an expiry date. Eventually, the damage done caught up with their corporeal forms, resulting in all of their deaths – even Caine’s which took place offscreen.

Doug writes: “I disagree with that characterization of Caine. He was never a man of science or logic, all of his choices and responses in both Faith and Visitation seemed to be constructed on his system of belief.

As a religious scientist myself, my first reaction would always be to suspect the explicable before the inexplicable. It’s not a challenge to the faith of any reasonable believer to accept that not everything you dont understand is de facto divine.”

Answer: In this case though, it wasn’t a simple theoretical matter but a very personal life and death experience, and that no doubt informed his conclusion. Also, the fact that both the existence of powerful aliens or an omnipotent God are posited but neither hypothesis is supported by corroborative evidence.
http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2010/11/25/november-25-2010-jelly-update-mailbag/

Kelara
November 26th, 2010, 02:20 AM
>And scientists who couldn't fix the shuttle. Inept! Just like all the other scientists apart from Rush and Eli. Oh, they SO got what was coming to them.


To be fair, not all scientists are studying some form of mechanics. Could have been 100% soft science people and for those it wouldn't be "inept" to have no clue about shuttle tech.

Do we have any clues what their actual field of study was? Was spontaneous, regressive skull fracture lady (forgot the name) the chemist we saw some time working on making the food taste better maybe, or am I remembering the wrong face?

garhkal
November 26th, 2010, 02:37 AM
Most people, when they think of God, imagine a pretty damn near omnipotent being. Someone who is perfect. Someone deserving of worship, precisely because they don't have any flaws and can always take care of and provide for us. Someone who is not a part of the universe, seeing as how they created it.

A super advanced alien being would still have flaws, and still be a product of the universe. Thus, not someone worthy of worshiping. Powerful yes, but not not a god. The Goa'uld, the Asgard, the ascended... all powerful beings in their own right, but I think you can see the fallacy of treating them as gods.

Precicely my point. I cannot see how with what these people know, that any still have 'faith' that there even is a god.


I wondered if the temporary resurrection was because the aliens do believe in non interference with lower races but were prepared to bend the rules a little on this occasion. So they were prepared to let them rejoin destiny to say goodbye but not to leave them permanently alive as that would be to change their fate.

or like someone else has suggested, they were supposed to stay that way but our prodding, made the aliens kick off a 'kill switch' to keep their secret.



So what that shows is the aliens did care because they responded to a plea of help. If you do not care you do not respond to a plea for help. Nor would the obelisk beings create an entirely new shuttle and entirely new people and send them back to the Destiny.

That was a huge act of compassion, if mishandled due to some sort of misunderstanding by the obelisk beings.

Maye they were already "enroute" to help just as he was making his prayer..


At this point, it makes more sense to assume the aliens never intended them to bring them totally back to life, but just give them time to say goodbyes to their friends on Destiny.

Heck, if that "nebula" was really them (tj's dream) maybe they are just not used to working with carbon based life forms.. The sun&planet were moved, rather than made.. the shuttle was just 'time jumped' back to when it was new...

antipodal
November 26th, 2010, 03:06 AM
"Visitation" repeats on Syfy Sat Nov 26 at 5am.

Lainier
November 26th, 2010, 03:56 AM
http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2010/11/25/november-25-2010-jelly-update-mailbag/
The restored human beings having an expiry date reminds me of another show...

Babylon 5. Sheridan and his expiry date. Not even the first one had the ability to resurrect people permanently.

Blackhole
November 26th, 2010, 04:42 AM
IMHO the Faith aliens having the ability to create a planet and restore a shuttle doesn't mean they have the foolproof ability to restore life. Life is on a different level entirely. So it's not too surprising that they could have thought they'd fixed the crew but it didn't last.

I have to disagree with you.

Given the scientific resurrection capabilities we have witnessed in the Stargate Universe from seemingly less advanced races that couldn't create a planet, to make a mistake or oversight of that caliber seems unreasonable. Even if they had some non-interference directive that precluded allowing lasting life to already dead people; forcing all of the Faith planet colonists to go through the horror of dying a second time while Destiny's crew had to stand by and watch helplessly was imo rather pointless and even cruel.

JM's blog suggests that the writers would have us believe that it was an unfortunate mistake on the part of the aliens. I think the writers wanted to introduce a new shuttle and tie up the Faith planet storyline. The episode imo came across as contrived and in line with SGU's penchant for depressing and melodramatic storytelling.

SGUFAN11
November 26th, 2010, 04:53 AM
Ok so after almost finishing the 1st half of the 2nd season, I'm have mixed feelings of where SGU is heading. I'm probably one of the biggest SGU fans there is and watch the episode of the week about 5 times to fully understand what is going on and what I probably missed the first time I watched it. This weeks episode finally got my attention on where its going. We are most likely going to see more aliens in the 2nd part of the season because it's hinted that the ship is under attack by alien ships. The whole incident with Caine and crew struck an old nerve or question that I had. What is going to happen to Col. Telford? Now I finally realized that these aliens are communicating with them by sending a bittersweet message to the people on board destiny. I think that Telford will come back to show on the 2nd part by maybe the possibility of Destiny taking over an alien ship and he happens to be there or he befriends the aliens and finds Destiny somehow; either way he's coming back. Back to last weeks episode, many people believe that Caine is alive due to the fact that a light was shown not revealing the death of Caine, and I personally believe that Caine is dead because TJ reiterated that he would die the death of his fellow scientists and it shows him being cold wrapped up in blankets talking to TJ. But we will have to find out in next weeks episode of the 1st part of the season who is actually right. Now my last comment for today is why are they splitting up the season in two parts?(If anyone knows that answer reply to my comment). I really look forward each week to SGU and its never-ending drama and sci-fi action. It's really my only big disappointment.

lars
November 26th, 2010, 05:20 AM
As you can think about a ton of reasons why they would re-build them this way, it's quite futile discussing it. Other species will have radically different philosophies regarding everything. They just may not know cruelty or anything like it. Even though most alien species in the Stargate franchise before SGU were pretty human-like in their mindset doesn't mean every species is.

Besides, being able to built a planet doesn't mean you have to be able to perfectly replicate a human. Mankind is able to built bombs which can destroy life on earth multiple times; yet such a tiny thing as a bacterium is a decent threat for us.

Blackhole
November 26th, 2010, 05:43 AM
As you can think about a ton of reasons why they would re-build them this way, it's quite futile discussing it. Other species will have radically different philosophies regarding everything. They just may not know cruelty or anything like it. Even though most alien species in the Stargate franchise before SGU were pretty human-like in their mindset doesn't mean every species is.

Besides, being able to built a planet doesn't mean you have to be able to perfectly replicate a human. Mankind is able to built bombs which can destroy life on earth multiple times; yet such a tiny thing as a bacterium is a decent threat for us.

I still disagree. They engineered a planet with a viable biosphere. They then reanimated dead bodies (and restored a million year old shuttle). One that had been dead and buried for months. Think of the cellular degeneration that has occurred in that time. The technological oversight or mistake of not realizing their creations would soon degenerate is not believable to me. I can understand if you think differently.

Eestlanna
November 26th, 2010, 05:49 AM
This whole freezing to death thing is the stupidest I've ever seen. Grown up people do not freeze to death while trees are growing right next to them. What stopped them to build at least some sort of a cabin and make a fire in it? There is absolutely no reason why they should have been frozen to death.

MattSilver 3k
November 26th, 2010, 05:51 AM
This whole frozing to death thing is the stupidest I've ever seen. Grown up people do not frozen to death while trees are growing right next to them. What stopped them to build at least some sort of a cabin and make a fire in it? There is absolutely no reason why they should have been frozen to death.

Good point. Grown people don't frozen to death. They freeze to death. And yeah, scientists hanging around and hoping for their alien Gods to save them totally went out of their way to make pretty little cabins in like four months.

SGUFAN11
November 26th, 2010, 05:56 AM
I have to agree with you guys on this one to some extent. These scientists you have to remember are not quite thinking clearly. They were more worried about leaving Destiny and not realizing the consequences of how the planet could change over seasons. They were definitely the hippy type, who love the earth and just sit around and sing kumbaya.

Eestlanna
November 26th, 2010, 06:02 AM
Good point. Grown people don't frozen to death. They freeze to death. And yeah, scientists hanging around and hoping for their alien Gods to save them totally went out of their way to make pretty little cabins in like four months.

I'm sorry about my bad language.
I'm sure normally it would take a few weeks most to build some sort of simple cabin.

http://www.hot.ee/tampuhkemaja/fotod/IMG_2176.JPG

Blackhole
November 26th, 2010, 06:58 AM
I'm sorry about my bad language.
I'm sure normally it would take a few weeks most to build some sort of simple cabin.

http://www.hot.ee/tampuhkemaja/fotod/IMG_2176.JPG

Your language is fine and I agree with you, assuming they had basic tools. I think the problem would have been enough food. Besides, they never should have set the shuttle down anywhere where the winters were harsh. We had long discussions about the viability of survival after the Faith episode. Colonel Young was right that Caine was mostly responsible for talking them into staying. They were very foolish to settle there and Caine's God will provide attitude got them all killed.

Blackhole
November 26th, 2010, 07:04 AM
I have to agree with you guys on this one to some extent. These scientists you have to remember are not quite thinking clearly. They were more worried about leaving Destiny and not realizing the consequences of how the planet could change over seasons. They were definitely the hippy type, who love the earth and just sit around and sing kumbaya.

I agree they had no idea just how difficult survival was going to be and Caine's God will provide for us attitude reinforced their ignorance and got them all killed.