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GateWorld
October 25th, 2010, 01:58 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/s2/208.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/graphics/208.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">UNIVERSE SEASON TWO</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/s2/208.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">MALICE</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 208</FONT>
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Simeon makes his escape from <I>Destiny</I>, sending Nicholas Rush on a vengeful mission to catch him. But Young and Greer must attempt to retrieve Simeon unharmed.

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morbosfist
November 16th, 2010, 06:00 PM
Soon as that herd showed up on screen, it was obvious what was coming. Still, very awesome take-down.

General Jumper One
November 16th, 2010, 06:02 PM
best ep of the series

Uncle Tobias
November 16th, 2010, 06:10 PM
haha I loved that bit with the herd of alien things.

Vanek26
November 16th, 2010, 06:12 PM
One of the best kills in SG.

Best episode of series.

Though I do wish they would get the Varro storyline going.

Sapphire_Jade
November 16th, 2010, 06:24 PM
Amazing episode!! best yet!! amazing performances by Robert Carlyle and David Blue! This ep is a turning point for Eli I believe.. and poor Rush that is the 2nd women he loved that he has lost.. and I am so not blaming Rush for shooting Simeon.. even though it looked like he was going to spill about the attack on Earth.. but I don't think he would ever tell and if he did it would have been false info.. I am so going to miss Ginn she was a favorite of mine :( I hope the rest of the season is like this episode!

jelgate
November 16th, 2010, 06:25 PM
I love this episode because its something we don't see Rush. This shows off Rush's emotional side. He is a person for better or worse that just does show emotion. No one would feel sorry for him after what Simeon had done. Sure he is riding on rage but I still just like seeing the range of Rush's emotional action and thier was a lot of action to keep me entertained with how Simeon was able to outsmart everyone with his Lucian Alliance bombs. The speech Simeon gave to Rush was chilling not only because it was but just how cynical it was. Although thier is something epic about a stampede of alien animals killing Simeon.

I liked how this episode challenegd Eli. It was as far as we know the first time Eli had experenced loss. It was an interesting insight into his character and how losing a loved one affects Eli. Although I have to question the wisdom of using Chloe on the bridge. Yes I know Brody and Volkner questioned the wisdom of this action but that does not make it any less dumb.

Speaking of the Chloe arc its getting a little drawn out. I think its about time we find a conclusion to Chloe being infected.

the fifth man
November 16th, 2010, 06:33 PM
This was much better than even I thought it would be. Simeon definitely got what was coming to him, that is for sure.

Briangate78
November 16th, 2010, 06:33 PM
Very Good episode, the tension in this episode was top notch, but some things just did not make sense to me. Simeon kills Ginn so she would not give information, do you really think Simeon is going to tell them? Rush was right to kill Simeon because what would he do on that ship? He could escape again and perhaps hurt and/or kill more people. He killed an innocent person who could not defend herself or fight back.

Anyway the emotions were great and well played by Eli and Rush. I like where it is going with Chloe, like being able to find a new RTL course, and it seems we are in store for something down the road.

So, gave the episode a 9/10!

jelgate
November 16th, 2010, 06:35 PM
Very Good episode, the tension in this episode was top notch, but some things just did not make sense to me. Simeon kills Ginn so she would not give information, do you really think Simeon is going to tell them? Rush was right to kill Simeon because what would he do on that ship? He would escsape again and perhaps hurt and/or kill more people. He killed a defensless innocent person who could not fight back.

Anyway the emotions were great and well played by Eli and Rush. I like where it is going with Chloe being able to find a new RTL course, and it seems we are in store for something down the road.

So, gave the episode a 9/10!

Yes. After some some time with Greer.

themeatcleaver
November 16th, 2010, 06:35 PM
i applauded when simeon got trampled and then laughed my ass off when rush blew his brains out! epic kill!

no way would simeon ever have shared his knowledge. he was just begging for help and would have screwed us later on.

i really, really, really would have tried to bring one of those alien gazelles home for a steak dinner. shame they didn't.

/i personally think this episode had enough action in it to rival most SG-1 or Atlantis episodes... thoughts?

scelby
November 16th, 2010, 06:41 PM
A great episode. I can't believe that they brought Robert Knepper on, barely used him and killed him off so quickly. They could have used any actor for this role.

Briangate78
November 16th, 2010, 06:41 PM
Yes. After some some time with Greer.

You should watch "24" dude. Some people just won't talk.

BTW, what Rush did make Greer look weak or a BS'er, because Greer is all talk, Rush did it, and pulled the trigger. If I was in his shoes I would probably do the same thing. He was too dangerous to be left alive.

jelgate
November 16th, 2010, 06:42 PM
You should watch "24" dude. Some people just won't talk.

Thats because 24 was poorly written. It rarely rational sense.

themeatcleaver
November 16th, 2010, 06:43 PM
Thats because 24 was poorly written. It rarely rational sense.

I have no idea what this means.

morbosfist
November 16th, 2010, 06:45 PM
I half-expected Rush to eject the magazine trying to kill Simeon, but that's McKay comedy and it wouldn't fit. Rush is still a terrible shot, though. I've shot guns only a few times, but even the first time I could hit a man-sized target somewhere from that distance. Rush had the perfect setup time to start, too. Then again, he was trying to draw Simeon in, and that stampede was worth it.


Yes. After some some time with Greer.Even in general, sometimes people won't break, and Simeon looks like the type.

the fifth man
November 16th, 2010, 06:46 PM
You should watch "24" dude. Some people just won't talk.

BTW, what Rush did make Greer look weak or a BS'er, because Greer is all talk, Rush did it, and pulled the trigger. If I was in his shoes I would probably do the same thing. He was too dangerous to be left alive.

I totally agree with that. He wouldn't have given up any info he had, so it just wasn't worth keeping him around.

themeatcleaver
November 16th, 2010, 06:47 PM
I totally agree with that. He wouldn't have given up any info he had, so it just wasn't worth keeping him around.

if only they'd have blown his brains out a few episodes ago, we'd all be better off!

Briangate78
November 16th, 2010, 06:47 PM
Thats because 24 was poorly written. It rarely rational sense.

Poorly Written? Compare SGU's situation to what Jack Bauer did to get people to talk or took actions for the "Greater Good" makes the cast's actions of SGU look like an episode of the Teletubbies.

jelgate
November 16th, 2010, 06:49 PM
I half-expected Rush to eject the magazine trying to kill Simeon, but that's McKay comedy and it wouldn't fit. Rush is still a terrible shot, though. I've shot guns only a few times, but even the first time I could hit a man-sized target somewhere from that distance. Rush had the perfect setup time to start, too. Then again, he was trying to draw Simeon in, and that stampede was worth it.

Even in general, sometimes people won't break, and Simeon looks like the type.
The Greer thing was a joke. But if we want to be serious its a good possibility Simeon wouldn't break but its also possible he would break given time. We wouldn't know until we tried.

Sapphire_Jade
November 16th, 2010, 06:49 PM
if only they'd have blown his brains out a few episodes ago, we'd all be better off!

he should have been left on the planet with the other LA people!! I still don't see why he was chosen to stay on Destiny..

jelgate
November 16th, 2010, 06:50 PM
Poorly Written? Compare SGU's situation to what Jack Bauer did to get people to talk or took actions for the "Greater Good" makes the cast's actions of SGU look like an episode of the Teletubbies.

And Bauer's grander then life stunts was difficult to grasp. But this isn't the 24 thread.

major davis
November 16th, 2010, 06:50 PM
Poorly Written? Compare SGU's situation to what Jack Bauer did to get people to talk or took actions for the "Greater Good" makes the cast's actions of SGU look like an episode of the Teletubbies.

lol Jack Bauer makes Rush and Young look like saints. :p

Briangate78
November 16th, 2010, 06:51 PM
I half-expected Rush to eject the magazine trying to kill Simeon, but that's McKay comedy and it wouldn't fit. Rush is still a terrible shot, though. I've shot guns only a few times, but even the first time I could hit a man-sized target somewhere from that distance. Rush had the perfect setup time to start, too. Then again, he was trying to draw Simeon in, and that stampede was worth it.

Even in general, sometimes people won't break, and Simeon looks like the type.

Since you brought up SGA, oh man, Major Davis is going to kill me. But this episode reminded a little bit of "The Eye" when Sheppard went on a killing spree when he thought Weir was dead. Kolya = Simeon all the way! Robert Davi and Robert Knepper are best in these bad guy roles.

Derocalypse
November 16th, 2010, 06:55 PM
i applauded when simeon got trampled and then laughed my ass off when rush blew his brains out! epic kill!

no way would simeon ever have shared his knowledge. he was just begging for help and would have screwed us later on.

i really, really, really would have tried to bring one of those alien gazelles home for a steak dinner. shame they didn't.

/i personally think this episode had enough action in it to rival most SG-1 or Atlantis episodes... thoughts?

Not even close. This was a decent episode though, so I'll give it that.

Replicator Todd
November 16th, 2010, 06:56 PM
Speaking of the Chloe arc its getting a little drawn out. I think its about time we find a conclusion to Chloe being infected.
I quite like infected Chloe, its the closest I can think of too having a alien main character on the ship! Well, other than the LA.

But I quite liked the episode! Rush always seems to have the most interesting stuff going on, what a epic character! Although I was hoping to see more Simeon as I think he would be a great recurring villain but I suppose this isn't SG1 or SGA so oh well. I shall miss Ginn.

Replicator Todd
November 16th, 2010, 06:57 PM
Since you brought up SGA, oh man, Major Davis is going to kill me. But this episode reminded a little bit of "The Eye" when Sheppard went on a killing spree when he thought Weir was dead. Kolya = Simeon all the way! Robert Davi and Robert Knepper are best in these bad guy roles.

I thought of Koyla as well! Too bad Simeon isn't likely to come back. :( A good bad guy just like Koyla.

jelgate
November 16th, 2010, 06:58 PM
I quite like infected Chloe, its the closest I can think of too having a alien main character on the ship! Well, other than the LA.

But I quite liked the episode! Rush always seems to have the most interesting stuff going on, what a epic character! Although I was hoping to see more Simeon as I think he would be a great recurring villain but I suppose this isn't SG1 or SGA so oh well. I shall miss Ginn.

Its not a bad storyline just stretched out.

major davis
November 16th, 2010, 06:59 PM
Since you brought up SGA, oh man, Major Davis is going to kill me. But this episode reminded a little bit of "The Eye" when Sheppard went on a killing spree when he thought Weir was dead. Kolya = Simeon all the way! Robert Davi and Robert Knepper are best in these bad guy roles.

ROFL....

*grabs pitchfork* :eek:

It was a good and fair comparison though... But, in most cases, comparing SGA to SGU is like comparing 24 to the teletubies. It's like someone on the 24 forums going "great ep... Reminded me of an ep from the teletubies a few years ago"

Replicator Todd
November 16th, 2010, 07:00 PM
Its not a bad storyline just stretched out.

I was kinda hoping it to be a permanent storyline. But I suppose it does seem a bit stretched.

the fifth man
November 16th, 2010, 07:03 PM
I thought of Koyla as well! Too bad Simeon isn't likely to come back. :( A good bad guy just like Koyla.

Simeon was a good bad guy like Kolya. And like Kolya, he got what he deserved.

Galileo_Galilee
November 16th, 2010, 07:03 PM
You know, the easy thing to do would be to mine the gate and platform. THis could do a couple of things, let people explode as the step on to the ramp, and known down the gate to render it useless.

He'd be safe.

morbosfist
November 16th, 2010, 07:04 PM
Since you brought up SGA, oh man, Major Davis is going to kill me. But this episode reminded a little bit of "The Eye" when Sheppard went on a killing spree when he thought Weir was dead. Kolya = Simeon all the way! Robert Davi and Robert Knepper are best in these bad guy roles.Yeah, they're both great bad guys. Simeon plays the role a lot more threatening, though. With Koyla, you knew he was a bad guy, and you could take his threats seriously, but he was more aloof about it (at least, that's the best way I can describe it). With Simeon, he's a lot darker, deadlier, especially in his way of making people suffer by leaving them alive.

Replicator Todd
November 16th, 2010, 07:06 PM
Simeon was a good bad guy like Kolya. And like Kolya, he got what he deserved.

Yes, thats one way to put it! But I love good bad guys....or villains in general.

Briangate78
November 16th, 2010, 07:08 PM
Simeon was a good bad guy like Kolya. And like Kolya, he got what he deserved.

Sheppard killed him by shooting him as well. Which was fueled with revenge from what he did to his team and himself.


Yeah, they're both great bad guys. Simeon plays the role a lot more threatening, though. With Koyla, you knew he was a bad guy, and you could take his threats seriously, but he was more aloof about it (at least, that's the best way I can describe it). With Simeon, he's a lot darker, deadlier, especially in his way of making people suffer by leaving them alive.

What Kolya did to Sheppard in "Common Ground" was up there with Simeon. So I think they both were the same level of darkness. Difference is SGU is a darker show, so it gets amplified because of that, and that can be good or bad. Rush and Eli's emotions certainly fueled the episode. On top of that Simeon's little speech to Rush.

the fifth man
November 16th, 2010, 07:13 PM
Sheppard killed him by shooting him as well. Which was fueled with revenge from what he did to his team and himself.



What Kolya did to Sheppard in "Common Ground" was up there with Simeon. So I think they both were the same level of darkness. Difference is SGU is a darker show, so it gets amplified because of that, and that can be good or bad. Rush and Eli's emotions certainly fueled the episode. On top of that Simeon's little speech to Rush.

When I heard Simeon talk to Rush like that, I knew for sure that Rush wasn't going to let him live.

Briangate78
November 16th, 2010, 07:15 PM
When I heard Simeon talk to Rush like that, I knew for sure that Rush wasn't going to let him live.

It was almost like Scott approved of him killing Simeon in the end. Which obviously he knew he did. He could of killed Greer if that bullet was a little more over.

Like Varro said, leave him behind don't pursue him, he is too dangerous.

Vanek26
November 16th, 2010, 07:17 PM
When I heard Simeon talk to Rush like that, I knew for sure that Rush wasn't going to let him live.

Yeah that was the end of Simeon :p

highboom
November 16th, 2010, 07:46 PM
this episode was epicness wrapped in a tootsie roll and smothered in bacon...

was anyone else kinda hoping that eli was going to go commando on simeon there?

GateroomGuard
November 16th, 2010, 07:49 PM
So for someone who hasn't seen the episode and won't until Hulu puts it up in 30 days. What was Simeons kill count, from the live discussion you'd think he killed the entire crew. I heard something about Park, James, Greer, and a bunch of other background characters getting blown up or shot.

jelgate
November 16th, 2010, 07:52 PM
So for someone who hasn't seen the episode and won't until Hulu puts it up in 30 days. What was Simeons kill count, from the live discussion you'd think he killed the entire crew. I heard something about Park, James, Greer, and a bunch of other background characters getting blown up or shot.

4 people plus Ginn/Perry

GateroomGuard
November 16th, 2010, 07:54 PM
4 people plus Ginn/Perry

Anyone we've seen before die or just redshirts we've never seen before? Anyone seriously wounded too?

zainea13
November 16th, 2010, 07:56 PM
only complaint is that I wish Rush would have said to Simeon something like:

"Anything you tell me would be a lie!"

or

"I don't want to hear your lies."

or

"You've said enough."

some epic line that refuted Simeon. Because otherwise I feel like that goes against Rush's new leaf that he has turned.

Pharaoh Atem
November 16th, 2010, 08:01 PM
best ep of the series

O'Neil
November 16th, 2010, 08:03 PM
Good to see that Rush took care of business. I would have REALLY hated to see a storyline where they tried to get info from Simeon, only to unravel more problems.

Commander Zelix
November 16th, 2010, 08:06 PM
Just above average episode. But it kept me interested all along even if the summer trailer spoiled the part about Rush killing Simeon. I didn't care much for Rush being sad and angry about Amanda's death, or Eli being also mad about it. I saw this situation 50 times on SGU enough grief for me.

Two of the best scene is both involved Chloe. I like best the short but intense scene on the bridge when Chloe is brought by Young to provide some help and everybody talk to her like she was some kind of blue alien trojan horse. I also like she been able to devise a way to help. The development is slow and tantative but I really want to see where this is going.

6.5 on 10 Awakening, Trial and Error, Greater good, Cloverdale, intervention, Aftermath were all better episode, if I recall them correctly. Well anything beside Pathogen.

I cant believe Simeon missed Greer, a non moving target, with a sniper scope when they were all just standing there with Rush and Scott.

The whole situation with Simeon feel a bit forced all along. It was a bit telegraphed. I thought he would try to liberate his people and get the ship back at first, but then he just left on some planet. There's many little scene who felt strange. For example, I don't know it why it was so difficult for Brody to open the gate door room after Volker locked it. What did he do? Encrypt the door opening command?

Kaiphantom
November 16th, 2010, 08:10 PM
Malice in Wonderland....

Barring the extreme stupidity that lead to not only Simeon killing his ONE guard and Ginn/Perry, but also making it off the ship.... the episode wasn't too bad. I'm still questioning the wisdom of putting Super-Chloe on the bridge, but eh, I've learned not to expect too much intelligence-wise from the crew now. I am wondering about something, because they have control over the ship and can go where they want... so why did they need Chloe to turn the ship around? If they couldn't do that, then Rush never had full control of the ship in the first place.

8+9+9 = 26 hours that Rush went without food or sleep. I'm surprised he even managed to walk. I know, there were probably power bars in the backpack, and maybe he took a nap on the way back. So it's more of a nitpick.

Other than that, it was good seeing Eli dealing with loss and "growing up" so to speak. It does mean he's kinda lost his innocence, but hopefully his naivete, too. His acting was really great overall, conveying his feelings of losing someone so soon after finding her; extreme happiness down to extreme depression. It was interesting to see him turning into Rush, too.

Speaking of which, Rush was decent; Carlyle's acting was okay, but I didn't get that "awesome" vibe off him. But for those who wanted him to suffer, you got to see it; was it worth the wait? Did you enjoy it? I'm understanding more and more why Rush kept it secret, and am finding it really hard to fault him for doing so. I get the feeling we'll regret it even more later on, that the secret came out. For instance, whatever consequences of whatever it was that Chloe did. If the bridge had remained secret, we wouldn't see any negative fallout from that.

Scott obviously was beginning to understand Rush, about the distrust for Young and why he kept the bridge secret. It was surprising to hear that from him, and hear him talk about the need to work together, but kudos to him for doing so. First time in a long time I started to admire his character again.

But I dunno... Season 1 was fairly tight, and whether I liked characters or not, it was pretty well-written. Ever since Season 2 started (and really, I think it began with the LA coming on board), I've been finding plot holes and stupidity all around. Really hoping it's just a rough patch that they'll get over, but given only 2 episodes left, it's hard for me to recommend this series to others in time for the ratings to do any good. If the back half of season 2 comes around and shows better writing to bring me back, it won't really matter.

Commander Zelix
November 16th, 2010, 08:15 PM
I don't know if somebody was more attentive that me. But what aspect of the ship navigation do they control and what aspect do they not (without considering Chloe's involvement in changing FTL course)? I thought they had the full control of the ship.

morbosfist
November 16th, 2010, 08:18 PM
I don't know if somebody was more attentive that me. But what aspect of the ship navigation do they control and what aspect do they not (without considering Chloe's involvement in changing FTL course)? I thought they had the full control of the ship.They can control the ship, but the auto-pilot is still on. They can drop out of FTL, but not control their course, and can maneuver at sublight.

Nemises
November 16th, 2010, 08:27 PM
It was a decent episodes. It wasn't all that great but at the same time it wasn't **** either.

DigiFluid
November 16th, 2010, 08:28 PM
Holy intense episode. The fake-out at first really had me fooled, that maybe nothing too serious had happened after the end of the last episode.

Was I ever wrong. I was mad when I saw Ginn dead. I was enraged when James came back and told them that Mandy was dead. I was absolutely chomping at the bit for them to get out there and kill Simeon in the worst kind of way. What a horrible thing for the ship to rally around and finally come together over. This is a GOOD damn show.

I'm a bit puzzled though--if they manually dropped the ship out of FTL, as they said at the beginning, why is there a countdown clock for it to resume? Beyond just dramatic storytelling, I mean. It just seems a bit unlikely.

Everyone in this episode was so awesome though. Eli the nerd demanding the Colonel give him a gun and being a real jerk to Brody and Volker later, Rush breaking down in the presence of the two military guys, the military away team being as competent and as GOOD as we've ever seen them. And Poor Park with the mine on her back, after what had happened in the minutes before I thought for sure they'd kill her off too.

Still a couple beefs with this episode though. The few John Woo moments when stuff was blowing up I definitely could've done without. And the time clock in this episode, what the heck was going on there? Rush/Scott/Greer take shelter from Simeon shooting, the ship drops out of FTL and they have 8 hours, and then 5 minutes later back on the planet Scott calculates they only have an hour left. Then once Greer and Scott get back to the gate, James tells them they have less than 2 hours left :confused:

morbosfist
November 16th, 2010, 08:30 PM
I'm a bit puzzled though--if they manually dropped the ship out of FTL, as they said at the beginning, why is there a countdown clock for it to resume? Beyond just dramatic storytelling, I mean. It just seems a bit unlikely.There's always been a countdown clock for manual dropout.


And the time clock in this episode, what the heck was going on there? Rush/Scott/Greer take shelter from Simeon shooting, the ship drops out of FTL and they have 8 hours, and then 5 minutes later back on the planet Scott calculates they only have an hour left. Then once Greer and Scott get back to the gate, James tells them they have less than 2 hours left :confused:You're just supposed to assume long, boring periods of nothing happened.

Commander Zelix
November 16th, 2010, 08:36 PM
I got another question. Yes, it will be the last time I watch SGU drunk. ;) Does anybody remember if they contacted earth to know of Dr. Perry or Ginn is really dead?

lars
November 16th, 2010, 08:37 PM
I'm a bit puzzled though--if they manually dropped the ship out of FTL, as they said ot the beginning, why is there a countdown clock for it to resume? Beyond just dramatic storytelling, I mean. It just seems a bit unlikely.

Beside the drama, Eli stated multiple times that the countdown clock was because of the FTL-route Destiny had plotted. If they would extend their stops, they eventually would run out of power, unable to reach a star.. As this would mean the end of a mission with epic proportions, Destiny certainly is programmed to stick to the schedules.

And the other thing, not dropping out of FTL before four hours had passed, was explained with the engines taking damage otherwise. So, besides the dramatic effects, there's some decent explanation (or ain't it?).

lars
November 16th, 2010, 08:38 PM
I got another question. Yes, it will be the last time I watch SGU drunk. ;) Does anybody remember if they contacted earth to know of Dr. Perry or Ginn is really dead?

Ja, quite the first thing they did.. James stoned to earth and reported to Young that Perry was indeed dead.

morbosfist
November 16th, 2010, 08:38 PM
I got another question. Yes, it will be the last time I watch SGU drunk. ;) Does anybody remember if they contacted earth to know of Dr. Perry or Ginn is really dead?Yes, James did.

RJLCyberPunk
November 16th, 2010, 08:42 PM
i applauded when simeon got trampled and then laughed my ass off when rush blew his brains out! epic kill!

no way would simeon ever have shared his knowledge. he was just begging for help and would have screwed us later on.

i really, really, really would have tried to bring one of those alien gazelles home for a steak dinner. shame they didn't.

/i personally think this episode had enough action in it to rival most SG-1 or Atlantis episodes... thoughts?

I agree, it was a very intense episode from beginning to end. Now I have read the official review here as well and I disagree with the reviewer opinion that Eli will turn into another Rush, I highly doubt that, yes he was cranky but God who would not be after such a loss, he did not even had time to mourn that takes a toll even on a saint for crying out loud.

Anyway that aside you are also absolutely right about them not taking the opportunity to hunt one of those grazers, that would have provided much needed protein for the crew for days if not weeks if they have refrigeration on the ship. But at the same time their window of time was very limited and they were facing a dangerous psychopath that had already killed a bunch of their own people just for the pleasure of it. Not to mention that if grazers that size exist on that planet think of the predators that prey on them, not good odds either.

I loved how the stampede took care of that Lucian Alliance monster and how Rush gave him the coupe D grace which honestly was merciful of him, he could have just left the SOB to rot there unable to move and defenseless so predators would slowly eat him alive, that would have been a fit end for the maniac, but they would not have been able to show it on TV either I suppose. Oh well, heck of an episode, a perfect 10 out of 10 on this one, and poor Eli.:(

lars
November 16th, 2010, 08:45 PM
I cant believe Simeon missed Greer, a non moving target, with a sniper scope when they were all just standing there with Rush and Scott.


Sorry for picking apart your posts ;-) Simeon never carried a weapon with a "sniper scope", as far as I can tell he had a G36 and an UMP, an assault rifle and a submachine gun. You can quite easily hit man-sized targets up to 300m with the G36's reflex scope, but it ain't exactly built for headshotting awesome Seargents. Lucky us.

As for the situation being forced and to answer the question why they didn't leave Simeon behind in the first place: Simeon was giving SGC information, or at least seemed to do so. He actually had a conversation with Varro about EVERY ONE feeding them with false information, only to hear from Varro everyone but him was eagerly betraying the Alliance.. so much for him freeing "his" people. Guess Rush was right when he said Simeon was propably waiting for them to return to Destiny so he could head to the remaining loyal Lucian Alliance people.

Sairnath
November 16th, 2010, 08:48 PM
I really need a more accurate count on the Military "Red Shirts". They seem to be going through them really quickly.

Oh and why mines? who in their infinate wisdom thought they were a good idea? I mean you have the Earth forces: "We're evacuating through the stargate, i might need some land mines" or the LA: "we're attacking our enemy on a starship lost in deep space, I should grab some mines with an absurb blast radius!" :)

nesais
November 16th, 2010, 08:52 PM
The gate (http://www.tvovermind.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/large-FullSize-sgu0208-0016xe.jpg) on the planet, with the lighting and stuff, looks like it has golden chevrons. Kinda cool

MizuhoChan
November 16th, 2010, 08:52 PM
I really need a more accurate count on the Military "Red Shirts". They seem to be going through them really quickly.

Oh and why mines? who in their infinate wisdom thought they were a good idea? I mean you have the Earth forces: "We're evacuating through the stargate, i might need some land mines" or the LA: "we're attacking our enemy on a starship lost in deep space, I should grab some mines with an absurb blast radius!" :)
They were the Lucien's mines.

Commander Zelix
November 16th, 2010, 09:00 PM
the LA: "we're attacking our enemy on a starship lost in deep space, I should grab some mines with an absurb blast radius!" :)

:D

Those land mines sure had a short radius. Maybe the humidity on the Destiny affected their efficiency or something. :)

lars
November 16th, 2010, 09:02 PM
4 people plus Ginn/Perry

He killed his guard, he went to Ginn and killed her, on his way to the gate room he shot two more guards. One of the last two guards didn't make it. That'd be only three kills, did I miss someone? Greer was shot, Vanessa and her two companions were blasted away but will live.

nesais
November 16th, 2010, 09:05 PM
complaints i've been reading say that the episode was poorly executed (no pun intended). but i thought it was entertaining. i havent watched an sgu episode three times in succession in ages.

screecwe
November 16th, 2010, 09:09 PM
:D

Those land mines sure had a short radius. Maybe the humidity on the Destiny affected their efficiency or something. :)

Land mines are shaped charges which rely on the target (person or vehicle) to be directly over the top of the mine. They penetrate by forcing a penetrator through the target. There are also claymore style mines which direct shrapnel/ball bearings at a target..but those werent that type of mine.

Joben
November 16th, 2010, 10:02 PM
I loved this episode, mind you I'm a huge Rush fan so that was always going to happen. The way it started off with a boring discussion on the Bridge and two minutes later everything has hit the fan. I have to admit the "This is James, Amanda Perry is dead" was a solid hit in the gut :(

NormaN
November 16th, 2010, 10:02 PM
I really need a more accurate count on the Military "Red Shirts". They seem to be going through them really quickly.

Oh and why mines? who in their infinate wisdom thought they were a good idea? I mean you have the Earth forces: "We're evacuating through the stargate, i might need some land mines" or the LA: "we're attacking our enemy on a starship lost in deep space, I should grab some mines with an absurb blast radius!" :)

I am pretty sure it was Lucian Alliance mines. It even looked a bit like Goa'uld technology with the crystals and all.

lars
November 16th, 2010, 10:11 PM
I am pretty sure it was Lucian Alliance mines. It even looked a bit like Goa'uld technology with the crystals and all.

Yes, they most likely were Lucian Alliance mines. But his/her point was, even for the LA they would have quite a narrow usefulness when you are boarding a space vessel. Although, maybe Lucian Alliance Soldier Basic Training has a "Booby Trapping a Hostage"-course.. And our military space teams wouldn't leave Atlantis/SGC without their stock of C4.

morbosfist
November 16th, 2010, 10:18 PM
Yes, they most likely were Lucian Alliance mines. But his/her point was, even for the LA they would have quite a narrow usefulness when you are boarding a space vessel. Although, maybe Lucian Alliance Soldier Basic Training has a "Booby Trapping a Hostage"-course.. And our military space teams wouldn't leave Atlantis/SGC without their stock of C4.Unless they're multi-purpose proximity mines/timed explosives.

Detox
November 16th, 2010, 10:25 PM
I really need a more accurate count on the Military "Red Shirts". They seem to be going through them really quickly.

Well, by my count, the expedition has lost 7 marines so far.

- Curtis
- Gorman
- Spencer
- Rivers
- Guy Varro shot through the chest
- Two Marines killed in Malice

It's weird none of the other military red-shirts are eating it. The guys in the Icarus uniforms or the Airforce soldiers.

MattSilver 3k
November 16th, 2010, 11:23 PM
Killer episode. Good fun, some nice developments, and all topped off with some brutality that I think this show needs more of. Seriously, first off we get Simeon shooting people left and right, blowing up stuff front and centre, and then Rush going all John Wayne on his ass in revenge for Perry's death. Fun fun fun fun fun fun!

Niggles out of the way first: The slow-mo explosions I could've done without. Wish I could've seen even more of Eli, something private and alone that's less angry and more just devastated, maybe a "Why did this happen to me?" look or two. Apart from that, don't have much in the way of complaints. I mean, it was kinda obvious to know what was going to happen and how (Trailers, hurr durr), but that doesn't make it less enjoyable. It just makes it predictable. Still fun. Still my favourite episode of this season and one of my favourites of the series, right up there with Time, Justice, Lost, Aftermath, Cloverdale and maybe The Greater Good.

A special note to Simeon: It's a terrible shame he didn't get more development. Seriously, I felt like they almost wasted Robert Knepper to scowling in the corner and occasionally being creepy, but he had at least one scene here that made the character worth the little screen time - the one where he was chatting to Rush about the pain of loss and having to live with that pain. Combine that with the fact he hasn't been forthcoming with information to the Earthlings, it helps paint a picture of a loyal soldier who'll do anything to protect his own/kill the enemy. And he was betrayed, and he went a little crazy in order to survive (I do believe his ultimate plan was to go back to the abandoned soldiers, and from there is anybody's guess, but I think he'd feel better with them).

Now, to Rush: I like the opening scene because he's so forthcoming and not lying anymore. Hell, the only time he out and out lies in the episode he immediately tells Scott and Greer the truth. Honest and raw, a nice pick-up of the development that started in Human, and then got kinda dropped when he found the bridge and the ensuing message. The scene where he broke down in front of Scott and Greer was awesome. Robert Carlyle recently won a Gemini Award, and I think this episode will put him well on his way to another (That is if Louis doesn't beat him out for his performance in Trial and Error). I also liked that not everybody immediately trusts Rush again, even though Young is kinda setting a lead-by-example and hoping that he doesn't get burned for it. It's a neat development, and I hope it stays true for a long time.

I head Jelgate call the Chloe storyline too drawn-out, and while I usually like to disagree with him on general principle, right now's no exception. It's an arc, one that'll probably take us through to episode ten, I bet. And we haven't even seen her that much - this is the most we've seen of her since Cloverdale, really, and before that only Pathogen was a big Chloe episode. So we've got like three big Chloe episodes centred on her freakiness, with little asides in other episodes as we go. At least she's getting a big storyline, one that seems to be weaving in and out of everybody else's at a time. If by this time in the back half of the season the crew is still all, "We can't trust her." and she's all "I don't know what's happening to me." then I'll call it drawn-out all to hell.

I gotta air this out now: I was very worried the writers would pull a fast one and keep one of the girls alive. There's still that possibility, but making sure this episode felt like an actual revenge episode and not capping it off with a, "Oh and Ginn's still alive somehow." was good. It kept things focused. Though I'm not entirely sure we've seen the last of either girl this season. The fast one comes later then?

Everybody else was great too. I mentioned Young earlier, how he seems to be putting it out there to trust Rush, and I truly hope he doesn't get burned. He's now moved past the alcoholic binge stage, and it'll be interesting to see where he goes from here - let's just hope it's a positive development. Scott and Greer were their usual brand of awesomesauce duo - Scott was empathic and understanding, and Greer was all angry and murdering people with his death glares. Good fun. I liked two scenes between Scott and Rush the most - the one with Rush crying and the one at the end that starts with Scott saying, "You're late" in the most conversational tone ever.

Poor Eli. That is all. Poor Park. Poor Volker! Holy crap, why do I get the sudden feeling he's in love with Park or something? Nice to see Greer comforting her a bit too... Oh crap I just found another love triangle. RUN FOR YOUR LIVES! Nice to see James all prominent again for a bit, though it's a shame she almost died in a crappy slow-mo explosion. I have missed her character, but I'm not entirely sure what's left for her right now unless Scott and TJ up and die and she is pushed forward some more. She can't possibly be still pining over Scott, right?

Overall, fantastic episode. Special mentions to the awesome location they shot on - wild wasteland planet that felt nice and alien (Almost like Tatooine). Cool alien dinosaur things. A nice roaring rampage of revenge. I'll call it a win.

wolverine_nl
November 16th, 2010, 11:34 PM
Killer episode. Good fun, some nice developments, and all topped off with some brutality that I think this show needs more of. Seriously, first off we get Simeon shooting people left and right, blowing up stuff front and centre, and then Rush going all John Wayne on his ass in revenge for Perry's death. Fun fun fun fun fun fun!

Niggles out of the way first: The slow-mo explosions I could've done without. Wish I could've seen even more of Eli, something private and alone that's less angry and more just devastated, maybe a "Why did this happen to me?" look or two. Apart from that, don't have much in the way of complaints. I mean, it was kinda obvious to know what was going to happen and how (Trailers, hurr durr), but that doesn't make it less enjoyable. It just makes it predictable. Still fun. Still my favourite episode of this season and one of my favourites of the series, right up there with Time, Justice, Lost, Aftermath, Cloverdale and maybe The Greater Good.

A special note to Simeon: It's a terrible shame he didn't get more development. Seriously, I felt like they almost wasted Robert Knepper to scowling in the corner and occasionally being creepy, but he had at least one scene here that made the character worth the little screen time - the one where he was chatting to Rush about the pain of loss and having to live with that pain. Combine that with the fact he hasn't been forthcoming with information to the Earthlings, it helps paint a picture of a loyal soldier who'll do anything to protect his own/kill the enemy. And he was betrayed, and he went a little crazy in order to survive (I do believe his ultimate plan was to go back to the abandoned soldiers, and from there is anybody's guess, but I think he'd feel better with them).

Now, to Rush: I like the opening scene because he's so forthcoming and not lying anymore. Hell, the only time he out and out lies in the episode he immediately tells Scott and Greer the truth. Honest and raw, a nice pick-up of the development that started in Human, and then got kinda dropped when he found the bridge and the ensuing message. The scene where he broke down in front of Scott and Greer was awesome. Robert Carlyle recently won a Gemini Award, and I think this episode will put him well on his way to another (That is if Louis doesn't beat him out for his performance in Trial and Error). I also liked that not everybody immediately trusts Rush again, even though Young is kinda setting a lead-by-example and hoping that he doesn't get burned for it. It's a neat development, and I hope it stays true for a long time.

I head Jelgate call the Chloe storyline too drawn-out, and while I usually like to disagree with him on general principle, right now's no exception. It's an arc, one that'll probably take us through to episode ten, I bet. And we haven't even seen her that much - this is the most we've seen of her since Cloverdale, really, and before that only Pathogen was a big Chloe episode. So we've got like three big Chloe episodes centred on her freakiness, with little asides in other episodes as we go. At least she's getting a big storyline, one that seems to be weaving in and out of everybody else's at a time. If by this time in the back half of the season the crew is still all, "We can't trust her." and she's all "I don't know what's happening to me." then I'll call it drawn-out all to hell.

I gotta air this out now: I was very worried the writers would pull a fast one and keep one of the girls alive. There's still that possibility, but making sure this episode felt like an actual revenge episode and not capping it off with a, "Oh and Ginn's still alive somehow." was good. It kept things focused. Though I'm not entirely sure we've seen the last of either girl this season. The fast one comes later then?

Everybody else was great too. I mentioned Young earlier, how he seems to be putting it out there to trust Rush, and I truly hope he doesn't get burned. He's now moved past the alcoholic binge stage, and it'll be interesting to see where he goes from here - let's just hope it's a positive development. Scott and Greer were their usual brand of awesomesauce duo - Scott was empathic and understanding, and Greer was all angry and murdering people with his death glares. Good fun. I liked two scenes between Scott and Rush the most - the one with Rush crying and the one at the end that starts with Scott saying, "You're late" in the most conversational tone ever.

Poor Eli. That is all. Poor Park. Poor Volker! Holy crap, why do I get the sudden feeling he's in love with Park or something? Nice to see Greer comforting her a bit too... Oh crap I just found another love triangle. RUN FOR YOUR LIVES! Nice to see James all prominent again for a bit, though it's a shame she almost died in a crappy slow-mo explosion. I have missed her character, but I'm not entirely sure what's left for her right now unless Scott and TJ up and die and she is pushed forward some more. She can't possibly be still pining over Scott, right?

Overall, fantastic episode. Special mentions to the awesome location they shot on - wild wasteland planet that felt nice and alien (Almost like Tatooine). Cool alien dinosaur things. A nice roaring rampage of revenge. I'll call it a win.

Everything he said :D

Cold Fuzz
November 16th, 2010, 11:39 PM
Poor Volker! Holy crap, why do I get the sudden feeling he's in love with Park or something?

I actually got the same vibe from Volker. Ever since Simeon insulted her and he came to her defense, I got the feeling he had a thing for her. When Park got back from the planet, I was wondering if Volker was going to say something to her.


Overall, fantastic episode. Special mentions to the awesome location they shot on - wild wasteland planet that felt nice and alien (Almost like Tatooine). Cool alien dinosaur things. A nice roaring rampage of revenge. I'll call it a win.

The desert planet and that heated chase gave the episode a revenge western feel, especially with Rush and Simeon shooting at each other at the end. Definite win.

ussrelativity
November 16th, 2010, 11:45 PM
The look on Simeon's face when him and Rush were shooting at each other was shocking.

Simeon must have been pleased that Rush had bad aim.

wolverine_nl
November 16th, 2010, 11:50 PM
Simeon's story told allot about why he was the way he was and Rush could also turn into that mentally, but Rush has already developed a personality that chosen his own path

Cold Fuzz
November 16th, 2010, 11:56 PM
The look on Simeon's face when him and Rush were shooting at each other was shocking.

Simeon must have been pleased that Rush had bad aim.

Given Simeon's personality and actions, I'd say that big smirk on his face was amusement at Rush being a bad shot, and that he actually thought he might be able to still win (because of Rush's poor aim) even though he was injured.

Jaemal
November 17th, 2010, 01:34 AM
Great episode. Simeon really gave them a run for their money (but what else could you expect from a guy played by Robert Kneeper?) but ultimatley no one in SGU is as badass as Rush. Lots of new information, great scenes between Scott & Rush and the Chloe plot is moving forwar. The only thing I didn't like was the unnecessary slow motion explosion but that is really a minor complaint.

But I am really sad to see Mandy and Gin go :(

Phenom
November 17th, 2010, 01:41 AM
Top episode. SGU season 2 has been a rip roaring success so far in terms of quality in my book. Only 2 crap eps out of 8, which is a great strike rate.

timmciglobal
November 17th, 2010, 02:01 AM
I think it was a really good episode but I can't help but think that the entire idea of getting him to spill what information he knows was ridiculously naive. Rush was right, he would of never talked and I don't buy that young/SGC would of thought he would especially since Gin probably told them something akin to "he's been playing you all along, he's lied from day one, he's threatened us if we tell the truth."

Tim

wolverine_nl
November 17th, 2010, 02:08 AM
My guess is that Gin told them enough, she had some time to do so.

Shadow_7
November 17th, 2010, 02:09 AM
It was good episode. Better than pathogen or cloverdale. But...

In my best Rush voice (as if he was talking to Greer in Air III):
"Cowboys and Indians... How quaint."

The space cows saved it IMO. And of course Super Chloe saves the day again. 2nd time this season...

mi_guard
November 17th, 2010, 02:23 AM
I half-expected Rush to eject the magazine trying to kill Simeon, but that's McKay comedy and it wouldn't fit. Rush is still a terrible shot, though. I've shot guns only a few times, but even the first time I could hit a man-sized target somewhere from that distance. Rush had the perfect setup time to start, too. Then again, he was trying to draw Simeon in, and that stampede was worth it.

IMO Rush was not even trying to hit Simeon. He wanted him to turn and come back after him to get him positioned in the middle of the canyon so that the animals would stampede him. He had already positioned the bomb to get them run in that direction. Simeon was surely first thinking that he could get rid of Rush quickly and only when he heard the animals approach he must have realized that Rush had trapped him.


And the time clock in this episode, what the heck was going on there? Rush/Scott/Greer take shelter from Simeon shooting, the ship drops out of FTL and they have 8 hours, and then 5 minutes later back on the planet Scott calculates they only have an hour left. Then once Greer and Scott get back to the gate, James tells them they have less than 2 hours left :confused:

They need time to walk back to the gate. The one hour Scott mentioned was not the remaining time for Destiny before jumping back into FTL, but the time they still had before they were forced to turn around and go back to the gate.

fmbchris
November 17th, 2010, 04:03 AM
:):):):)To whom it may concern: I would like to thank the person or persons in control who have decided to remove the sappy music from the show.. it was making me sick..er. <Snipped by Moderator>

Homer 120
November 17th, 2010, 04:19 AM
Just got through watching it. Another Robert C. Cooper classic! And to me, is paired with ''Time'' as his best SGU episodes. Goldsmith's score at the end was excellent, easily my 2nd favourte episode of the Season.

Knaves
November 17th, 2010, 04:27 AM
And of course Super Chloe saves the day again. 2nd time this season...
Yay for magic Chloe, what will they ever do without her?

SGU is starting to get a little to depressing.

Stormtrooper
November 17th, 2010, 04:39 AM
Good episode. I find it strange, however, that Ginn didn't mention anything to Eli about a possible attack on Earth shortly after they had sex. "BTW, fat ass, my buddies are going to blow up your planet. Thought you should know." The military personnel were dropping like flies, eh? Young is such a moron for risking his people's lives to capture Simeon alive because he has valuable information, blah, blah. Both Varro and Rush seem to be better leaders than Young. Rush certainly had the right idea about what needed to be done. lol

8/10

PotRoast
November 17th, 2010, 06:27 AM
Whoa! But is he really dead?! Strange things happen in space and no one can hear you scream. Hmmmmm.
Robert Knepper is fabulous in this role. Even though you love to hate him (Simeon), I will miss him.
I like the way Eli is showing the other side of his character now. He's no longer a Mama's boy dork.
Loved the alien dinos and that Simeon was taken down by a herd with a pack mentality. Seems a fitting end. He was laughing in Rush's face when he said he had information. He wouldn't have told anything. He was committed to die when he saw the gate open.
Varro/Young scene was a bit weak but I guess that needed to be put in as he (Varro) is the heir apparent for the remainder of the LA on the ship.
I'm going in to watch the episode in peace and quiet and see what I missed from last night.
This was a great episode and can't for next week.

Briangate78
November 17th, 2010, 07:22 AM
The only reason I did not give it a 10/10 was the idea that Simeon needed to be brought back alive. He killed 4 people, wounded a few others, including Greer, and even Varro said he is dangerous. He killed Ginn to prevent any info from being leaked, you really think he would give that info away? What was the info about? An attack on Earth? Oh yeah Earth has never been attacked before, lol. So the threat of him dying with that info just did not really hold water. It should of been a manhunt from the beginning and a shoot to kill order issued by Young. I think that would of been more tense or maybe not, I dunno, lol. Maybe, have Simeon ready to kill greer and Rush from behind shoot him. That would of scored some point for Rush with Greer. But, how Simeon met his end was done very well anyway, so no complaints there.

Plus, I don't think Greer would of restrainted or tried to stop Rush if he had the opportunity to kill him while in their presence. Scott, seemed to be following orders but he also knew Simeon was too dangerous to be brought back alive.

Anyway, great character development all around.

mi_guard
November 17th, 2010, 07:23 AM
A question about the title "Malice". it means "1: desire to cause pain, injury, or distress to another and 2: intent to commit an unlawful act or cause harm without legal justification or excuse"

It is of course related to Rush who wants to hurt/kill Simeon out of revenge and without legal justification. It would relate also to Eli, who would like to do the same. But could it also apply to Simeon himself?

Commander Zelix
November 17th, 2010, 07:31 AM
The space cows saved it IMO.
Cows? I prefer to view them as hard ass roaring space rhinos!!

Commander Zelix
November 17th, 2010, 07:33 AM
Plus, I don't think Greer would of restrainted or tried to stop Rush if he had the opportunity to kill him while in their presence. Scott, seemed to be following orders but he also knew Simeon was too dangerous to be brought back alive.

Both Greer and Scott as well as any soldiers were following orders. If not, it's court martial or big trouble for them.

jelgate
November 17th, 2010, 07:40 AM
He killed his guard, he went to Ginn and killed her, on his way to the gate room he shot two more guards. One of the last two guards didn't make it. That'd be only three kills, did I miss someone? Greer was shot, Vanessa and her two companions were blasted away but will live.Someone said (IIRC Young) 3 people were killed and 4 were injured. Later TJ said out of the 4 she couldn't save a person

derrickh
November 17th, 2010, 08:47 AM
This episode had too many holes for me to enjoy it. Simeon was able to kill his guard, Ginn, shoot 2 more marines (by simply walking toward them), take a hostage, and escape? It made the entire military look incompetant. In fact, this episode was like a nonstop 'these guys suck' montage. I didn't like that at all. Rush is a genius, but he's no military genius. When the 'highly trained professionals' showed up, they should've shown us that they were highly trained professionals. Instead, they walked into trap after trap. While Rush single handedly brings down a guy that just embarassed the SGC.

I almost liked Eli's 'let me at em' stance. But his 'give me a gun' mantra reeked of false bravado. I was expecting him to use his rage and intelligence and the power of ancient technology to catch Simeon. Imagine a shot of the gate opening, and 100 Kinos flying out with Eli processing the information and pinpointing Simeon's position. And then using the Kinos to incite the stampeding space cows. That would've been bad ass. Instead, he comes off like a whiny, impotent kid in oversized fatigues.

Chloe... If she can plot new FTL courses, then she should be able to plot a course back to the milky way. It may take a year or 2, but it'd be better than -not- going home. Let's see if they manage to forget about that development.

D

caribsci
November 17th, 2010, 08:55 AM
Simeon is not as cold as we thought.He basically only took out military personel.Why even leave Park alive?

MattSilver 3k
November 17th, 2010, 09:24 AM
Simeon is not as cold as we thought.He basically only took out military personel.Why even leave Park alive?

Well he planned to blow her up or at least use to stall the others from immediately chasing him... He was just thinking somewhat smart, you know, trying to gain an advantage by planting the bomb.

blackluster
November 17th, 2010, 09:39 AM
Chloe... If she can plot new FTL courses, then she should be able to plot a course back to the milky way. It may take a year or 2, but it'd be better than -not- going home. Let's see if they manage to forget about that development.lol, you must have missed all the episodes preceding this one...


Simeon is not as cold as we thought.He basically only took out military personel.Why even leave Park alive? As the per the title, Simeon is a malicious person. He left her there as a trap for anyone coming through the gate. Classic booby-trapping. He also seemed very attentive as to which actions he could do that would cause the most discomfort and distress to the people on Destiny (see the convo with Volker and Brody).

The Destiny
November 17th, 2010, 09:42 AM
Chloe... If she can plot new FTL courses, then she should be able to plot a course back to the milky way. It may take a year or 2, but it'd be better than -not- going home. Let's see if they manage to forget about that development.

I believe Rush already had control of that, the rest just didn't yet. Regardless, the starmap in Air part I showed destiny has travelled through 30-40 galaxies. Let's just for a moment think of a daedalus class ship - so with hyperdrive - instead of the destiny, and let's forget for a moment that the trip between the milkyway and pegasus is a short distance in intergalactic terms. 18 days for every jump from galaxy to galaxy. A trip back to earth - without foodstops etc - would take... 40x18...720 days. So that's 2 years for a X304 without stopping at all.

Now calculate that again with ( the slower ) FTL of destiny, the bigger distances from galaxy to galaxy and time to stop along the way.
Regardless I always thought the timescale of "destiny has been flying for over a million years" was incorrect when looking at the starmap scene and a course towards earth would take a few years and even less if a 304 went their way to meet them.

LoneStar1836
November 17th, 2010, 10:08 AM
Solid SGU episode even though I thought it could have been better in places. High marks for a number of the character scenes.


Loved:

- Rush. Enough said.

- Scott. Especially that last scene between he and Rush concerning being able to trust Young.

- Greer's BBQ comment. :D

- Park. So glad they didn't kill her as I really thought they might.

- The other secondary characters.

- The location they filmed in. I guess this is when they went back to New Mexico.

Liked:

- Simeon gunning down red shirts left and right. Why they ever held on to this guy is beyond me. If he had important info, they should have aggressively gone after it to begin with. He was hard core and was never just going to offer it up. At the very least he should have had two or three guards on him if they just had to let him roam around the ship.

- Simeon's death. As soon as the shot of the herd appeared, I knew what was about to happen. Rush drawing him in with the "bad" shots. Great. And the final shot of Rush pulling the trigger. Great.

This guy was never going to give them any information. I though it was rather stupid to risk lives to go after him, and surely Young thought the same thing so I'm going with him following orders...in order to create an episode. Young should have been more pissed at himself for allowing this to happen, thus should have been happy to just leave Simeon behind to die rather than risk more lives. SGC needs to get off its butt and get out there and gather info to stop this attack on Earth. Ginn should have given them enough to go on.

RK was rather underused on this role. He was great in what little they gave him in the eps he appeared in, but I though for such a big name he would have have had a bigger part in the eps he was contracted for.

- The continued Chloe storyline. Even though Young wasn't listening to what the others were trying to say about their hesitation to let her mess around with the ship's systems.

-Eli/Young scene and Eli in general in this ep. DB did a nice job.

Meh:

- Slow mo explosions. Could have done without them.

- This "big" LA threat to Earth. I'm just not buying this build up. I considered the LA a joke on SG-1.

Galileo_Galilee
November 17th, 2010, 10:25 AM
Yeah, I'm ambivalent towards only Chloe being able to solve the problems of the Destiny.

Still, at least the writers are trying to give her something to do.

I just hope they don't go the Lana Lang route and turn her into a total MAry Sue kind of character.

Because really, there's so many brilliant minds and they can't do what she does.

Then what good are the rest of them?

Perelandra
November 17th, 2010, 10:35 AM
[QUOTe

Chloe... If she can plot new FTL courses, then she should be able to plot a course back to the milky way. It may take a year or 2, but it'd be better than -not- going home. Let's see if they manage to forget about that development.

D[/QUOTE] some one correct me if I'm wrong but
MY understanding is that the Destiny is so far on the other side of the universe(billions of light years) that their only possibility of getting home in their lifetime is through the stargate- which would require an insane amount of power(an Icarus-type planet with a certain core.)

leiasky
November 17th, 2010, 10:37 AM
I was impressed with the episode as a whole but I'm really tired of Chloe. I hope they don't overuse the whole 'she's infected but lets give her access anyway so she can save us all with her super alien infected knowledge'. SGU doesn't need a Wesley Crusher.

I did love Eli and Rush's reactions, though. Young - meh. It's too little too late for him to act like a believable in-charge commander.

It's too bad they didn't get to this well-paced place last season.

I did love the little T-rex animals. They should have brought one back for steak...


- This "big" LA threat to Earth. I'm just not buying this build up. I considered the LA a joke on SG-1.

Yes. This. I hate hate hate that the LA is being thought of as the big baddie that even has a chance in hell of being able to go up against Earth. And I'm going to be really annoyed if they're the big baddie in the new SG-1 movie.

Misfits
November 17th, 2010, 10:43 AM
I believe Rush already had control of that, the rest just didn't yet.

Rush had only the ability to drop Destiny out of FTL. He had control of sub-light and maneuvering within sub-light.
Rush did not have control of how long Destiny stayed out of FTL, the countdown clock.
Rush did not have control of FTL course Destiny followed.


Regardless, the starmap in Air part I showed destiny has travelled through 30-40 galaxies.

Where did you get that number from?
I don't believe it has ever been stated how many galaxies Destiny has traveled through.
If you want an approximation, considering what we do know, Destiny would have traveled 1 galaxy per year, approximately.
That would mean that Destiny should have traveled through million+ galaxies.
That's a loooong way.


Let's just for a moment think of a daedalus class ship - so with hyperdrive - instead of the destiny, and let's forget for a moment that the trip between the milkyway and pegasus is a short distance in intergalactic terms. 18 days for every jump from galaxy to galaxy. A trip back to earth - without foodstops etc - would take... 40x18...720 days. So that's 2 years for a X304 without stopping at all.

Although I agree that the Deadalus class ships would be able to travel much faster than Destiny, and there is a possibility that it could travel 1 galaxy per day, it would still take over 2700 years to reach Destiny, and the amount of power required would be astronomical.
To attempt a feasible mission, let's say within a few years, they would have to have the technology of manufacturing ZPMs.

Shan Bruce Lee
November 17th, 2010, 10:46 AM
The last two episodes have been incredible. I loved every minute of this one.

The cinematic long shots on the planet were a nice touch. I loved the "god angle" when Rush killed Simeon.

Speaking of Simeon, he just became one of my favorite Stargate villains. It's always a more powerful story when the villain is an actual threat that actually succeeds at killing a lot of people. The heroes in Stargate have spent a lot of time running from bad guys that never manage to do any actual harm, and instead of going that route they went the exact opposite; Simeon was the one running and still managed to take a few of them with him.

I am glad he's dead though. And glad he got such an awesome death. Trampled by a herd of dinosaur-lizard things and then shot by Rush!

Misfits
November 17th, 2010, 10:49 AM
I did love the little T-rex animals. They should have brought one back for steak...

They looked very similar to the animals that Dr. Jackson encountered in the original Stargate movie in Abidos.
Bi-Pedal with smaller front appendages, about 2 times the height of humans, etc...

Shan Bruce Lee
November 17th, 2010, 11:00 AM
You should watch "24" dude. Some people just won't talk.

BTW, what Rush did make Greer look weak or a BS'er, because Greer is all talk, Rush did it, and pulled the trigger. If I was in his shoes I would probably do the same thing. He was too dangerous to be left alive.

I have to agree with this. Simeon is the kind of person that just won't talk and if he does it's all lies. In fact...


he should have been left on the planet with the other LA people!! I still don't see why he was chosen to stay on Destiny..

He was giving them false information to stay on the ship.


Still a couple beefs with this episode though. The few John Woo moments when stuff was blowing up I definitely could've done without. And the time clock in this episode, what the heck was going on there? Rush/Scott/Greer take shelter from Simeon shooting, the ship drops out of FTL and they have 8 hours, and then 5 minutes later back on the planet Scott calculates they only have an hour left. Then once Greer and Scott get back to the gate, James tells them they have less than 2 hours left :confused:

Scott was talking about how much time they had before they had to turn back and return to the gate.

Oreol
November 17th, 2010, 11:04 AM
...Bi-Pedal...

Are you sure? I'm sure they walked on all fours and looked like very furry buffalos.

Misfits
November 17th, 2010, 11:12 AM
Are you sure? I'm sure they walked on all fours and looked like very furry buffalos.

Yeah, I'm sure.
As the camera pans in toward Rush, as the stampede is happening, you can see the creatures running by.
Their body looked very similar to T-Rex. Huge hind legs with small frontal appendages, with long tail that balances the creature on it's hind legs.
Quite similar to the one that inhibited Abidos in the Original Stargate movie.

carmencatalina
November 17th, 2010, 11:22 AM
I was just looking at some stills, I think they were definitely bipedal. Chicken-cow-a-saurs. Apparently, when you barbecue them, they taste just like chicken.

PG15
November 17th, 2010, 11:24 AM
This episode had too many holes for me to enjoy it. Simeon was able to kill his guard, Ginn, shoot 2 more marines (by simply walking toward them), take a hostage, and escape? It made the entire military look incompetant. In fact, this episode was like a nonstop 'these guys suck' montage. I didn't like that at all. Rush is a genius, but he's no military genius. When the 'highly trained professionals' showed up, they should've shown us that they were highly trained professionals. Instead, they walked into trap after trap. While Rush single handedly brings down a guy that just embarassed the SGC.

Simeon had the element of surprise on his side.

That, and the fact that he himself is probably a military genius, considering his background.


I almost liked Eli's 'let me at em' stance. But his 'give me a gun' mantra reeked of false bravado. I was expecting him to use his rage and intelligence and the power of ancient technology to catch Simeon. Imagine a shot of the gate opening, and 100 Kinos flying out with Eli processing the information and pinpointing Simeon's position. And then using the Kinos to incite the stampeding space cows. That would've been bad ass. Instead, he comes off like a whiny, impotent kid in oversized fatigues.

Well yeah. He just lost someone he loved; you really think he'll be thinking straight?

morbosfist
November 17th, 2010, 11:27 AM
Quite similar to the one that inhibited Abidos in the Original Stargate movie.The ones on Abydos were quadrupeds, which is what he's referring to.

Shan Bruce Lee
November 17th, 2010, 11:27 AM
He killed his guard, he went to Ginn and killed her, on his way to the gate room he shot two more guards. One of the last two guards didn't make it. That'd be only three kills, did I miss someone? Greer was shot, Vanessa and her two companions were blasted away but will live.

I think one of the guys with Lt James died.


Just got through watching it. Another Robert C. Cooper classic! And to me, is paired with ''Time'' as his best SGU episodes. Goldsmith's score at the end was excellent, easily my 2nd favourte episode of the Season.

I should've guessed that. Most of my favorite episodes were either written or directed by RCC.


Good episode. I find it strange, however, that Ginn didn't mention anything to Eli about a possible attack on Earth shortly after they had sex. "BTW, fat ass, my buddies are going to blow up your planet. Thought you should know." The military personnel were dropping like flies, eh? Young is such a moron for risking his people's lives to capture Simeon alive because he has valuable information, blah, blah. Both Varro and Rush seem to be better leaders than Young. Rush certainly had the right idea about what needed to be done. lol

8/10

They already knew the attack was coming.


A question about the title "Malice". it means "1: desire to cause pain, injury, or distress to another and 2: intent to commit an unlawful act or cause harm without legal justification or excuse"

It is of course related to Rush who wants to hurt/kill Simeon out of revenge and without legal justification. It would relate also to Eli, who would like to do the same. But could it also apply to Simeon himself?

It's about Rush and Simeon.


This episode had too many holes for me to enjoy it. Simeon was able to kill his guard, Ginn, shoot 2 more marines (by simply walking toward them), take a hostage, and escape? It made the entire military look incompetant. In fact, this episode was like a nonstop 'these guys suck' montage. I didn't like that at all. Rush is a genius, but he's no military genius. When the 'highly trained professionals' showed up, they should've shown us that they were highly trained professionals. Instead, they walked into trap after trap. While Rush single handedly brings down a guy that just embarassed the SGC.

I almost liked Eli's 'let me at em' stance. But his 'give me a gun' mantra reeked of false bravado. I was expecting him to use his rage and intelligence and the power of ancient technology to catch Simeon. Imagine a shot of the gate opening, and 100 Kinos flying out with Eli processing the information and pinpointing Simeon's position. And then using the Kinos to incite the stampeding space cows. That would've been bad ass. Instead, he comes off like a whiny, impotent kid in oversized fatigues.

Chloe... If she can plot new FTL courses, then she should be able to plot a course back to the milky way. It may take a year or 2, but it'd be better than -not- going home. Let's see if they manage to forget about that development.

D

They'd never make it back to the Milky Way. There's really no point in risking going back through the Blue Aliens' galaxy for that.

Oreol
November 17th, 2010, 11:32 AM
Quite similar to the one that inhibited Abidos in the Original Stargate movie.

I don't think so. Those were quadrupeds and not reptilian at all.

But yeah, the creatures that Rush used to defeat Simeon looked like bi-pedal dinos.

Shadow_7
November 17th, 2010, 11:46 AM
So how many did die? Ginn and Perry, Simeons Guard and one other soldier? And you thought Rush's aim was bad... A virtual arsenal and he takes out at most 2 others, previously not taken out in the previous episode. 4 soldiers wounded, one didn't make it or something like that. Was that one Simeons guard or someone else?

I was actually worried about Park and James. They're not in the promo photos as women of SGU and every sort of panel discussion, they're not on the panel either. I guess they could be / will be red shirted sooner or later. Which would suck if the LA destroys earth. Limited breeding potential.

The LA is a threat IMO. They come from several planets. Earth is but one planet. No asgard, jaffa, or tokra since the war ended per say. So there is a volnerability there. If only by force of numbers.

blackluster
November 17th, 2010, 11:58 AM
I think one of the guys with Lt James died.No, I think they survived. One had a broken arm and the other was knocked unconscious.

On the episode, That was quite a moving scene with Park sitting on the ground with the bomb on her back. The actress really sold the character's distress well. I feel bad for Volker as well. It's one of those trap situations where after the fact you can't help but feel like crap no matter what anyone says to you. Survivor's guilt I guess, though it might be nice to pull that Volker/Park interaction into the main story a bit more.

The Destiny
November 17th, 2010, 12:16 PM
Where did you get that number from?
I don't believe it has ever been stated how many galaxies Destiny has traveled through.
If you want an approximation, considering what we do know, Destiny would have traveled 1 galaxy per year, approximately.
That would mean that Destiny should have traveled through million+ galaxies.
That's a loooong way.

In the starmap scene in Air part I we see destiny's route taking it through a couple of galaxies, and it makes a beep every time it goes through a galaxy. When off screen we keep hearing the beeps, a couple dozen beeps actually. There's probably somewhere out there who tried to count the beeps.

Everything else you said: Fair enough :)

oneminute
November 17th, 2010, 12:33 PM
In the starmap scene in Air part I we see destiny's route taking it through a couple of galaxies, and it makes a beep every time it goes through a galaxy. When off screen we keep hearing the beeps, a couple dozen beeps actually. There's probably somewhere out there who tried to count the beeps.

Everything else you said: Fair enough :)


Hi, check out Q&A in Joe Malozzis blog of Oct 25:

" It’s the same answer I give those who ask: “Now that Rush has control of the ship, couldn’t he just turn Destiny around and fly it back to Earth?” Again, theoretically, yes. If they flew non-stop in FTL without stopping for food or water, they could probably make it back in approximately 50 000 years."

leiasky
November 17th, 2010, 01:04 PM
Hi, check out Q&A in Joe Malozzis blog of Oct 25:

" It’s the same answer I give those who ask: “Now that Rush has control of the ship, couldn’t he just turn Destiny around and fly it back to Earth?” Again, theoretically, yes. If they flew non-stop in FTL without stopping for food or water, they could probably make it back in approximately 50 000 years."


I think the Ancients found what they were looking for (God aka Center of the Universe) and then ascended leaving Destiny to be found by the 'fifth race'.

I wouldn't be surprised to find, at the end, that Destiny is on a 'round the galaxy tour' and is already headed home...

oneminute
November 17th, 2010, 01:42 PM
Can someone help with this please: the explosion which set off the herd happened behind Simeon, i.e. on the opposite side of the plain from where Rush was hiding. How did Rush manage to get it there? it looks far away, and Simeon seemed to have walked only a small distance between Rush spotting the herd from mountain top, and Rush setting off the explosion. I wondered if it was placed there already much earlier, but Rush can be seen taking the C4 out of the backpack when he is on the mountain top. I seem to have missed something, thanks!

Pond Hopper
November 17th, 2010, 01:52 PM
I think the Ancients found what they were looking for (God aka Center of the Universe) and then ascended leaving Destiny to be found by the 'fifth race'.

I wouldn't be surprised to find, at the end, that Destiny is on a 'round the galaxy tour' and is already headed home...

I think they'd realise that, assuming they had any kind of navigational data from Destiny's systems. They'd see that they would either be heading out toward the edge of the universe (and thus, away from Earth) or they'd notice a pattern in the charts that was contrary to that, a curve for instance, that indicated they were turning back toward Earth slowly.

StarShadow
November 17th, 2010, 03:30 PM
Eli lost his father when he abandoned his HIV infected wife.

morbosfist
November 17th, 2010, 03:35 PM
Can someone help with this please: the explosion which set off the herd happened behind Simeon, i.e. on the opposite side of the plain from where Rush was hiding. How did Rush manage to get it there? it looks far away, and Simeon seemed to have walked only a small distance between Rush spotting the herd from mountain top, and Rush setting off the explosion. I wondered if it was placed there already much earlier, but Rush can be seen taking the C4 out of the backpack when he is on the mountain top. I seem to have missed something, thanks!Simeon was limping fairly slow. RUsh probably circled around and planted it before running back. It is somewhat unrealistically far off, though.

Lainier
November 17th, 2010, 03:51 PM
Another great episode! Simeon's death was awesome, and Carlyle's performance was outstanding. He deserves a second Gemini award :D David Blue did also a great work. And we saw James in action! I really enjoyed Malice.

Eternal Density
November 17th, 2010, 05:08 PM
Simeon would only talk if they could get him in a room with Greer, Teal'c and Ronon.
But that's not possible.

[edit]
Rush got the C4 over where he needed it with his mad throwing skillz.

Cylykon
November 17th, 2010, 05:33 PM
i laughed my ass off when rush blew his brains out! epic kill!

I'd be surprised if Full Metal Jacket wasn't your favorite movie:

"Hey Rush, we ought to put you up for the congressional medal of... ugly! Ha-ha!"

themeatcleaver
November 17th, 2010, 05:40 PM
I'd be surprised if Full Metal Jacket wasn't your favorite movie:

"Hey Rush, we ought to put you up for the congressional medal of... ugly! Ha-ha!"

that movie does indeed hold a special place in my heart. god bless R. Lee. Ermy! :)

themeatcleaver
November 17th, 2010, 05:46 PM
Eli lost his father when he abandoned his HIV infected wife.

very good point. everyone's saying he's never felt loss and i totally forgot about that! good call! green for you :)

majorsal
November 17th, 2010, 06:00 PM
I was actually worried about Park and James. They're not in the promo photos as women of SGU and every sort of panel discussion, they're not on the panel either. I guess they could be / will be red shirted sooner or later. Which would suck if the LA destroys earth. Limited breeding potential.


okay, i just have to share this. this is what happens with watching so much scifi...

regarding the bolded... i read it and though, 'oh, not an earth fan, so where are you from?' and i glanced over to see if it said where you were from... like you wouldn't be from earth!! :rolleyes: :o :p

ZoSo
November 17th, 2010, 06:50 PM
Now this is Stargate.

They've really turned it around this season.

Laxian of Earth
November 17th, 2010, 06:54 PM
Amazing episode!! best yet!! amazing performances by Robert Carlyle and David Blue! This ep is a turning point for Eli I believe.. and poor Rush that is the 2nd women he loved that he has lost.. and I am so not blaming Rush for shooting Simeon.. even though it looked like he was going to spill about the attack on Earth.. but I don't think he would ever tell and if he did it would have been false info.. I am so going to miss Ginn she was a favorite of mine :( I hope the rest of the season is like this episode!


all people are talking about rush...hell i like his character, but well i am more concerned with eli then with rush, hell eli has only one person on the ship he can really talk to (chloe - and with her changing...well he will be alone in way, soon) because they are similar in age and background (at least a little, both went to university, both are intelligent....) and then, well i am sorry to say it, but for a nerd like eli to find a girl (even more on that spaceship!) is really hard to do (even if it's a girl as good looking as Ginn was (hell, i would not mind having her as my girlfriend) and i hope this does not do any lasting damage to him - in that context i hate that he had no chance to take that ******* simoen out himself (and it puts young on my list again because if someone would kill TJ or his wife, i am SURE that he would go after them, but then he does not let other people do the same....i can undestand his reasoning, but still, i do not like that)

as for rush going after simoen, hell i cheered when he shot that ****er (hell i would have been pistol whipping him - even wounded as he was - to death, after doing that to a woman i loved)

as for simoen killing ginn, a girl - even one from his own clan - well, i am sorry, but that man clearly was a sociopath (young should have never let that one walk and i would support him if he locked the rest of the LA back up)

well my few cents :)

greetings LAX

Ian-S
November 17th, 2010, 07:08 PM
Rush's aim was crap cos he broke his glasses fiddling with the bomb (and that he needed Simeon to be in the right position for the fat merecats-meet-t-rexes to run him over), shooting him up close wouldn't be such a problem.

I got the feeling he was trying to hit him originally cos Rush looks at the gun at one point in such a way like you do in the fairground when you think the sights are off on a gun, and that the stampede was a backup plan.

Cool epp though, nice to see some peoples' alternate personalities coming out.

Shadow_7
November 17th, 2010, 08:21 PM
okay, i just have to share this. this is what happens with watching so much scifi...

regarding the bolded... i read it and though, 'oh, not an earth fan, so where are you from?' and i glanced over to see if it said where you were from... like you wouldn't be from earth!! :rolleyes: :o :p

???

I guess not an issue with stargate given that the galaxies are littered with humans. But for SGU where the only contact with them is via stones. Break the receiving end on that and we're left with a very limited gene pool on Destiny. And if they start getting injured and killed as fast as the last couple of episodes. SGU is going to resemble a stand up comic act soon. With only one comic. New friends... yea...

Meshakhad
November 17th, 2010, 09:16 PM
I wish Eli had gone with Rush. He had as much reason for revenge, if not more. I mean, I'm pretty sure he slept with Ginn in "The Greater Good". And he could have used the kinos to find Simeon, possibly faster than Scott and the soldiers. I do see some good character development for him as he turns into Rush 2.0.

Overall, an excellent episode. Though I really wish they hadn't killed Ginn...

jackisback
November 17th, 2010, 09:28 PM
This episode had its flaws but it was easily the best episode yet.
Scott and Greer could have acted more like soldiers instead of wandering and talking to Rush while a Sniper was gunning for them.
But give me some SGC Soldiers, a Gun Fight, a Desert and a Stargate and some half descent actors and don't forget some SCI FI scenes like Destiny FTL and the Keno add the time ticking away and lets not forget the Killing of Extras and I think you have a real show finally, yee ha

jackisback
November 17th, 2010, 09:30 PM
I wish Eli went too and got shot in the leg, that is the sort of drama I can deal with, and I am not joking. Greer got shot instead ? I mean he is the real soldier and he gets Shot because he stands up in front of sniper ?????

morbosfist
November 17th, 2010, 10:12 PM
Rush had a Kino; Simeon shot it. That wouldn't play out any different if Eli could control it.

Commander Zelix
November 17th, 2010, 10:42 PM
This episode had its flaws but it was easily the best episode yet.
Scott and Greer could have acted more like soldiers instead of wandering and talking to Rush while a Sniper was gunning for them.

Yeah, I'm sure the military advisers didn't approved this script. But obviously, it was done that way for dramatic purpose.

Meshakhad
November 18th, 2010, 01:02 AM
I would like to see them bring Ginn back, so long as they do it well. Carson's return on SGA would be a good model:
1. There had been plenty of time to mourn him and get over, so it came as a genuine surprise.
2. The method of resurrection wasn't contrived.
3. It fit into the storyline, and they didn't do an entire episode of "The Resurrection of Carson Beckett".

So, how they could bring Ginn back:
1. Wait until Season Three.
2. Find a plausible way. The only one I can think of is an alternate universe.
3. Make it a part of a larger AU episode. Maybe they encounter an alternate Destiny where the Lucian Alliance got there first.

Do I want Ginn back? Yes. But I don't want it done at the cost of shoddy writing.

MechaThor
November 18th, 2010, 04:11 AM
I am not sure if it was just Eli trying to hide his pain or not, but in this episode I am starting to get the feeling that deep down his very similar to Rush, and actually thinks himself better than the overs, who just "slow him down". Could be an interesting development to watch. Maybe he starts to get power hungry from the control room, while Rush gets more distant?

garhkal
November 18th, 2010, 04:40 AM
Soon as that herd showed up on screen, it was obvious what was coming. Still, very awesome take-down.

It was obvious, but still fun to watch.. Though my only 2 quips with it. Rush saw Simeon around a 1/4 of the way across that open part, and the herd over a ways away. HOW the heck did he get on their other side to plant the explosives, THEN make i back to his position to start shooting.
The other is why did simeon not use his own gun to try and push them around him?


amazing performances by Robert Carlyle and David Blue! This ep is a turning point for Eli I believe..

I would LOVE it if next years awards (gemini) both are in the running for an award.. going head to head.


and poor Rush that is the 2nd women he loved that he has lost.

So is he becoming the carter of SGU?


I love this episode because its something we don't see Rush. This shows off Rush's emotional side.

It was badass seeing him both in revenge mode,, and remorseful mode.
Especially since he (iirc) admitted to scott it is his fault for bringing her aboard the ship.


Simeon kills Ginn so she would not give information, do you really think Simeon is going to tell them?

It wasn't meant to make sense. WE knew he would rather die than give it up..
BUT the powers that be had to make the chance to get him cause he MIGHT..
Its why IRL we capture so many Al'queda and Taliban.. just cause they MAY give us intel, though more likely they will just wait til we release them and then go back to doing bad stuff..


Yes. After some some time with Greer.

Na.. Put teal'c on him.




A great episode. I can't believe that they brought Robert Knepper on, barely used him and killed him off so quickly. They could have used any actor for this role.



Na. No one else to me, would have done a good job of being so jerk to everyoen else then so bad ass on the ship.


I half-expected Rush to eject the magazine trying to kill Simeon, but that's McKay comedy and it wouldn't fit. Rush is still a terrible shot, though. I've shot guns only a few times, but even the first time I could hit a man-sized target somewhere from that distance. Rush had the perfect setup time to start, too. Then again, he was trying to draw Simeon in, and that stampede was worth it.

IMO that is the only reason he was off.. He knew it would lure simeon in closer to the "Kill zone".


The Greer thing was a joke. But if we want to be serious its a good possibility Simeon wouldn't break but its also possible he would break given time. We wouldn't know until we tried.

Plus how do we know what info he gave would have been correct. He was on both Ginn and varro's case for telling the truth.. So why would HE tell..


Since you brought up SGA, oh man, Major Davis is going to kill me. But this episode reminded a little bit of "The Eye" when Sheppard went on a killing spree when he thought Weir was dead. Kolya = Simeon all the way! Robert Davi and Robert Knepper are best in these bad guy roles.

Diff there is Shep at least was military.. rush to our knowledge has never had any mil training..


You know, the easy thing to do would be to mine the gate and platform. THis could do a couple of things, let people explode as the step on to the ramp, and known down the gate to render it useless.

Perhaps he didn't know hat the gate would stop working with it being on it's side.. Or he realized his amt of boom stuff would be insufficient to do squat.




So for someone who hasn't seen the episode and won't until Hulu puts it up in 30 days. What was Simeons kill count, from the live discussion you'd think he killed the entire crew. I heard something about Park, James, Greer, and a bunch of other background characters getting blown up or shot.



2 crew and Ginn dead on the ship, Perry dead on earth.. 3 wounded on the ship and 4 more on the planet.


I cant believe Simeon missed Greer, a non moving target, with a sniper scope when they were all just standing there with Rush and Scott.

From how i know the enemy works when outmanned, you go to WOUND one target to take 2 out of the equasion. 1 wounded and 1 to carry them away.. That is imo why he shot to wound.


8+9+9 = 26 hours that Rush went without food or sleep. I'm surprised he even managed to walk. I know, there were probably power bars in the backpack, and maybe he took a nap on the way back. So it's more of a nitpick.


I swear i saw him limping a little and otherwise actiig like he was knackered out.. especially how he dropped to his knees in shear exhaustion when he got to the gate.


Scott obviously was beginning to understand Rush, about the distrust for Young and why he kept the bridge secret. It was surprising to hear that from him, and hear him talk about the need to work together, but kudos to him for doing so. First time in a long time I started to admire his character again.


It was Interesting to say the least that both Young and scott seem to now understand why Rush did it. BUT also great that Greer still does not trust him.


I loved how the stampede took care of that Lucian Alliance monster and how Rush gave him the coupe D grace which honestly was merciful of him, he could have just left the SOB to rot there unable to move and defenseless so predators would slowly eat him alive, that would have been a fit end for the maniac, but they would not have been able to show it on TV either I suppose. Oh well, heck of an episode, a perfect 10 out of 10 on this one, and poor Eli.

It would have been more nasty of rush to have done just that. BUT was not as immediate and carthic to him as putting one in the head was.


Yes, they most likely were Lucian Alliance mines. But his/her point was, even for the LA they would have quite a narrow usefulness when you are boarding a space vessel. Although, maybe Lucian Alliance Soldier Basic Training has a "Booby Trapping a Hostage"-course.. And our military space teams wouldn't leave Atlantis/SGC without their stock of C4.

Maybe they brought them aboard to use as 'door openers'..


The Greater Good.

It was great, but not as good as the greater good...


I actually got the same vibe from Volker. Ever since Simeon insulted her and he came to her defense, I got the feeling he had a thing for her. When Park got back from the planet, I was wondering if Volker was going to say something to her.

I wonder what greer will say if she is bonking volkar.. BUT it also gives another reason he stood up for her when simeon said somethin a few eps back.


The look on Simeon's face when him and Rush were shooting at each other was shocking.

Simeon must have been pleased that Rush had bad aim.

To me, it was more of a "Im gonna enjoy beating your dumb ass".


Young is such a moron for risking his people's lives to capture Simeon alive because he has valuable information, blah, blah.

How is he a bad leader doing what homeland security told him to do?


While Rush single handedly brings down a guy that just embarassed the SGC.

Well, he did crack the kino remote telling other remotes where it is at


Well he planned to blow her up or at least use to stall the others from immediately chasing him... He was just thinking somewhat smart, you know, trying to gain an advantage by planting the bomb.

That is a standard mil tactic. Use one to keep others occupied...


Speaking of Simeon, he just became one of my favorite Stargate villains. It's always a more powerful story when the villain is an actual threat that actually succeeds at killing a lot of people. The heroes in Stargate have spent a lot of time running from bad guys that never manage to do any actual harm, and instead of going that route they went the exact opposite; Simeon was the one running and still managed to take a few of them with him.

He joins the few, the proud.. with kolya... the graduates of villian academy.


Bi-Pedal with smaller front appendages, about 2 times the height of humans, etc...

Those were 4 legged..


" It’s the same answer I give those who ask: “Now that Rush has control of the ship, couldn’t he just turn Destiny around and fly it back to Earth?” Again, theoretically, yes. If they flew non-stop in FTL without stopping for food or water, they could probably make it back in approximately 50 000 years."


So just a hop, skip and a jump or two.:cool::cool:


Now this is Stargate.

They've really turned it around this season.

Classic gate use, baddie killing and drama... What more could we ask for.


all people are talking about rush...hell i like his character, but well i am more concerned with eli then with rush, hell eli has only one person on the ship he can really talk to (chloe - and with her changing...well he will be alone in way, soon)

Compared to rush eli has a LOT more friends... Scott, young, parks, greer, brody etc.. MORE people trust and like him than do rush.

The Mighty 6 platoon
November 18th, 2010, 04:59 AM
Yeah, I'm sure the military advisers didn't approved this script. But obviously, it was done that way for dramatic purpose.
Don't see why they wouldn't. The episode showed the consequences of standing out in the open arguing when Greer took a round. But contrary to popular belief soldiers aren't machines who never put a foot wrong, people make mistakes and it's often how soldiers die.

As for the ep itself I thoroughly enjoyed it. Simple yet perfect, it was thrilling from start to finish. Nice to have a heavily militarily episode once in a while. Also nice to have a show where gunfights consist of people actually using their weapons in single shot mode, rather than following the standard Hollywood convention of everyone blazing away endlessly on fully automatic.

ciannwn
November 18th, 2010, 05:07 AM
I would like to see them bring Ginn back, so long as they do it well.

If they bring Ginn back for Ginn fans they should bring Riley back for Riley fans. :p

Krystal
November 18th, 2010, 06:45 AM
It was a good episode but I have to admit that I was expecting something more. After building Simeon's character we didn't see much of him in this episode. It was all do from a distance. I was really looking for a confrontation between him and Greer but with Rush taking him out. And is a shame because he's acting was solid, I was waiting for something like the Tanith & Teal'c confrontation, more action involved. One thing I don't understand is the slow motion explosions. That was so weird and take it out what could have been a great explosion. I have to admit the stampede thing was cool and different a great finale but it would have been awesome to see more action before it between Rush and Simeon. For me it was a good episode that could have been just awesome but never deliver entirely. And definitely a misused of a great villain.

Sp!der
November 18th, 2010, 07:19 AM
Its true T-Bag was not used that much in SG:U and I always said the he was a waste of money spending (sorry!) but he did not contributed much to the story like LDP etc. etc. so i wished they would have spend money to something else. Other wise I loved this episode! Everything was perfect, to sad that you are leaving or leaved the franchise cooper, I always loved your episodes!!! I think this is one of my favourites of the whole franchise! and they did use the gate this time xD (just kiddin!), I hope we do not get canceled especially after seeing that they are capable of doing such awesome episodes!

myhelix
November 18th, 2010, 10:02 AM
for me the episode was a clear touchdown, especially Robert Carlyle´s acting! Give the man Emmys, Golden Globe´s, Geminis, Oscars, better now than never!

Also the episode was quite a sample of thing reversed. In "Cloverdale" Scott saw Rush as "Justice of the Peace" in "Malice" Scott was the one comforting Rush playing confessor
In "Air III" we saw Greer attacking Rush from behind, in this episode it was vice versa.
Also Eli was getting snappy to Young just like Rush always do it with the Colonel, and Eli ask him if he was able to live with the consequences when he manage to stop the clock, feels like something Rush would do.

What I love:
TJ trying to comfort Eli and Rush
Rush rage, hitting the wall
Simeon's cold blooded escape
Rush trying to disarm the bomb on Dr. Parks back
The location was beautiful.
I loved the slow mo explosion´s
Everything in terms of Rush and Scott in this episode (the fighting, the comforting, the preaching)
The creatures on the planet
The moment when Rush walks with Greer and Scott trying hard not to fall apart in front of the two but finally break down crying. Confessing the guilt he feels about Perry´s dead.
I love the little notion that Greer trying hard "not to be there" when Rush starts to sob.
Young´s little speech to Eli
Eli getting a bit pissed at Volker "What are you doing" reminds me again of Rush.
Simeon´s pleasure to taunt Rush about Mandy
Chloe´s transformation (I hope they can reverse the alien manipulating somehow?)
Rush trick Simeon into a trap, I really like to know if Rush is just very bad at aim or if that was part of his plan?
The No Nonsense kill, "I have information"...bang. I cheered inside.
His lonely walk back to the Gate (the music was fantastic), seeing in horror that nobody was there and then the glimpse of relief in his eyes to see that they don´t left him on the planet, again.
Scott´s "Are you felling better now?" and Rush´s empty look.

Commander Zelix
November 18th, 2010, 10:46 AM
IFrom how i know the enemy works when outmanned, you go to WOUND one target to take 2 out of the equasion. 1 wounded and 1 to carry them away.. That is imo why he shot to wound.

I don't think we're talking about the same moment. I'm not talking about the moment Greer was wounded but before that moment.

nx01a
November 18th, 2010, 12:37 PM
Malicious intent...

The Good:
>"You were expecting 'Stairway to Heaven'?"
>The scientists were asking very smart questions in the beginning, doubting Rush.
>Young dismissing Rush.
>I wonder if Rush will blame Young for Amanda's death. Young DID call him away at that critical moment. It would be ironic if Young 'forgives' Rush for Riley's death but Rush is angry at Young for Amanda's.
>Even when Rush is on your side, he's still keeping secrets... and those secrets still get people hurt [James and her team].
>In addition to all the lying and scheming, now Rush has gotten Greer shot. Greer is going to have it out for him even more now.
>Rush can't hit the broad side of a barn, but he CAN out-think Lucian Alliance thugs.
>Rush picking up Scott's pack and moving along.
>Rush finally breaking down. Scott offering him water. :D
>Rush had no malicious intent in his actions re: controlling Destiny. Unfortunately, they left a door wide open for Simeon to be very malicious.
>Rush cares more about personal revenge than the lives of millions of people... much like he cares more about Destiny's 'mission' than the lives of the people aboard Destiny.
>This episode really was a Rush vehicle, wasn't it?
>I wonder if everyone who went to the planet will have tans for the next few weeks, like after Air pt 3. :)
>Cute, albeit obviously CGI aliens. When Simeon's walking across that final stretch of desert, I said to myself, "Self... What if Simeon gets left on the planet and ends up face-to-face with one of those animals... and it's really hungry?" And then Rush saw the herd and I was like, STAMPEDE!
>Chloe... Altering the ship's course. Just like the blue aliens want her to in order to bring it back to them.
>TJ. Poor thing. I would have said earlier this season that she needs some Varro loving to make her feel better, but... [see The Bad]
>Poor Park. Brave at the 'end', though.
>I was shouting at the screen, "Use your glasses, Rush!" And he did. :)
>Rush recovered the other remote. Nice. Can't leave those lying around.
>I wonder if Volker will ask for military training now.
>Eli ordering the others around. I like it!
>Everybody got some screen time this episode.
>Kawooshes never cease to make me smile. :)
>Rest In Pieces Simeon.

The Bad:
>I swear to whatever put that message in the cosmic background radiation that, if I don't see a beautiful and significant Lucian Alliance space battle/attack on Earth later this season, I will be supremely ticked off.
>RIP Ginn and Dr. Perry.
>I don't think the Eli/Ginn relationship had enough screen time for us to be really invested in them, or for us to really understand Eli's rage. At least one more episode of them being lovey-dovey would have been enough.
>Varro KNEW how dangerous Simeon was, his attitude... and STILL didn't think to particularly warn Young about him? All the remaining LA should be put off on the nearest planet. Sorry, TJ. No Varro love for you.
>And why weren't the stones used to bring in more doctors? Ah. Dramatic triage effect.
>They let Chloe sit at a console unsupervised?! Seriously?!
>Are Park, Volker and Brody totally useless as scientists?!?!

The Ugly:
>Why did I hear rattlesnake sound effects? I realize it's a desert planet, but... And what was that bug-like twittering effect they used ever so often?

The Verdict:
>I hold no malice against this episode.

pjt
November 18th, 2010, 01:23 PM
>I don't think the Eli/Ginn relationship had enough screen time for us to be really invested in them, or for us to really understand Eli's rage. At least one more episode of them being lovey-dovey would have been enough.


It was enough for me.

This episode was great, but now I'm just not sure I really wanted to watch it. I knew last week what was coming, and... I think it was a bit too much. It was a great episode, since it made me fell like this, but I don't like to feel like this. I don't want to feel like this. It would have been stupid of me to think they were to live happily ever after, but I wasn't expecting and execution this quick. And I mean it literally.

I might peek into the next episode, but if they are keeping this up, I'm sure as hell gonna skip this show. Not really escapism anymore, and so far it was no matter how gritty it got from time to time.

I think I'm too old to feel like crap after an episode...

Jumper_One
November 18th, 2010, 04:44 PM
nate writes: “1.) How much time had past between The greater good and Malice? Was it just a few minutes or hours?”

Answer: The action is continuous. Think of it as one, long episode.

“3.) I may be mistaken, but didn’t you imply in a recent mailbag that Ginn isn’t really dead? Was that just to keep us in suspense or is there more to come from Ginn in the form of a vision for Eli, like Rush and his wife?”

Answer: Did I imply she wasn’t really dead or did I imply we’d see her again? I don’t recall.

Ben42 writes: “Do those bison/velociraptor hybrids have a name?”

Answer: Lenny, Phil, Margie, Loretta, and Maurice – those were the ones I can remember off the top of my head.

Audrey writes: “So what’s up with Varro lying to Young and co., when he says he knows nothing of the attack on Earth? In Pathogen we see him have a talk with Simeon, and its sorta implied that they all know about it.”

Answer: No, I think it’s pretty clear in that scene that he and other Lucian Alliance members are offering Homeworld Command information while Simeon is offering disinformation. The Alliance, as the name implies, is made up of various factions. Simeon and Ginn belonged to the same faction, the group planning the rumored attack on Earth.
http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2010/11/18/november-18-2010-the-final-day-of-main-unit-photography-on-sgus-second-season/

garhkal
November 19th, 2010, 02:19 AM
I don't think we're talking about the same moment. I'm not talking about the moment Greer was wounded but before that moment.

In that case i thikn they were more warning shots...


>Even when Rush is on your side, he's still keeping secrets... and those secrets still get people hurt [James and her team].

Rewatch.. HE was the only one who tried to warn them off.


>In addition to all the lying and scheming, now Rush has gotten Greer shot. Greer is going to have it out for him even more now.

His dumb ass was the one who stood up and made himself the target not rush..


>Rush recovered the other remote. Nice. Can't leave those lying around.


I think it was more he hoped that with both coming back someone would realize it was him.. not simeon.


>And why weren't the stones used to bring in more doctors? Ah. Dramatic triage effect.

maybe they were.. off screen.

stevilevi
November 19th, 2010, 02:47 AM
I like that we saw "Malice" from both sides of the fence. Simeon's loyalties clearly lie with the Lucian Alliance. Even on the far side of the universe, this is not going to waver for him (unlike the other LA members who have decided it's best to cooperate with Earth). So not only has he had to watch his fellow comrades be killed in battle or deserted on a barren planet, but he's had to watch his remaining comrades compromise their allegiances. I can see why, when given a window, he was going to take action to ensure the LA would ultimately succeed. He even says it himself.

"I understand revenge, your people have killed enough of mine, people I cared about"

I love how SGU brings aspects like this out of their characters

jelgate
November 19th, 2010, 06:17 AM
I like that we saw "Malice" from both sides of the fence. Simeon's loyalties clearly lie with the Lucian Alliance. Even on the far side of the universe, this is not going to waver for him (unlike the other LA members who have decided it's best to cooperate with Earth). So not only has he had to watch his fellow comrades be killed in battle or deserted on a barren planet, but he's had to watch his remaining comrades compromise their allegiances. I can see why, when given a window, he was going to take action to ensure the LA would ultimately succeed. He even says it himself.

"I understand revenge, your people have killed enough of mine, people I cared about"

I love how SGU brings aspects like this out of their characters

To me the term malice applied to Rush. The definition of Malice is the intent to cause harm or sufferingh of others. That seems to apply to Rush more then Simeon. Simeon was more dealing with what he thought was a traitor

myhelix
November 19th, 2010, 06:31 AM
To me the term malice applied to Rush. The definition of Malice is the intent to cause harm or sufferingh of others. That seems to apply to Rush more then Simeon. Simeon was more dealing with what he thought was a traitor

I think "Malice" is clearly a term they used for Simeon´s character. He was the one who causes all the suffering for Eli, Rush, Park, Volker, Greer, the two dead marines, Perry, Ginn. He´s actions where vicious. Rush could have been malicious in this episode, but he was not, he was enraged and broken-hearted. He saved Parks life and his killing of Simeon was almost merciful, he could have left him their with his injury's and walk away so he would suffer a horrible death out their, that would have been more cruel than "just" shoot him.

jelgate
November 19th, 2010, 06:41 AM
I think "Malice" is clearly a term they used for Simeon´s character. He was the one who causes all the suffering for Eli, Rush, Park, Volker, Greer, the two dead marines, Perry, Ginn. He´s actions where vicious. Rush could have been malicious in this episode, but he was not, he was enraged and broken-hearted. He saved Parks life and his killing of Simeon was almost merciful, he could have left him their with his injury's and walk away so he would suffer a horrible death out their, that would have been more cruel than "just" shoot him.
That neglects the intent part. Simeon didn't have an intent to harm. He harmed a person he thought was capable of treason and then those he thought would prevent his escape. Malice seems to apply to Rush more then Simeon because it was so much of his desire to kill Simeon. Simeon was just trying to escape.

zainea13
November 19th, 2010, 07:04 AM
Ok just a side note but people are making far too many threads!!! there are two pages work and all have like 8 replies! lol

myhelix
November 19th, 2010, 08:15 AM
That neglects the intent part. Simeon didn't have an intent to harm. He harmed a person he thought was capable of treason and then those he thought would prevent his escape. Malice seems to apply to Rush more then Simeon because it was so much of his desire to kill Simeon. Simeon was just trying to escape.

The desirer to kill a killer who just end a persons life you love and care about, and was completely innocent, is more malice? It´s a bit flawed logic here. Heck, even Eli wants a gun to kill that guy, would you call him malicious for that fact?

Simeon was the violent one, he know that there was another women in Ginn´s body and killed her regardless of that fact, that was malicious. And he try to killed every person he come across on his way to the Stargate. He take a innocent women hostage with intending to blasting her and whoever comes for help to pieces. You can not call that actions of an honourable soldier.

Lahela
November 19th, 2010, 09:01 AM
That neglects the intent part. Simeon didn't have an intent to harm. He harmed a person he thought was capable of treason and then those he thought would prevent his escape. Malice seems to apply to Rush more then Simeon because it was so much of his desire to kill Simeon. Simeon was just trying to escape.

You... What????? He walked around the ship shooting people. Shooting them. With a gun. Frequently. Not to mention killing his guard. He made no attempt to get off the ship that didn't involve harm, until he got to the gateroom and found a a) convenient hostage and b) someone to dial the gate for him! Of course he intended harm. He didn't give a flying crap who he hurt!

ETA:


To me the term malice applied to Rush. The definition of Malice is the intent to cause harm or sufferingh of others. That seems to apply to Rush more then Simeon. Simeon was more dealing with what he thought was a traitor

Then by your standards Eli is equally guilty of malice. His first words after seeing Ginn dead were, "Give me a gun." when Simeon was still on the ship, then later Young found him getting geared up to go kill him on the planet.

jelgate
November 19th, 2010, 09:53 AM
You... What????? He walked around the ship shooting people. Shooting them. With a gun. Frequently. Not to mention killing his guard. He made no attempt to get off the ship that didn't involve harm, until he got to the gateroom and found a a) convenient hostage and b) someone to dial the gate for him! Of course he intended harm. He didn't give a flying crap who he hurt!

ETA:



Then by your standards Eli is equally guilty of malice. His first words after seeing Ginn dead were, "Give me a gun." when Simeon was still on the ship, then later Young found him getting geared up to go kill him on the planet.
That was more of Simeon wanting to protect himself because he had killed Ginn. He didn't have malice towards anyone in particular.

I can kind of see how Eli had malice because he did want to do the same thing as Rush.

hedwig
November 19th, 2010, 10:03 AM
Definition of malice 

–noun
1. desire to inflict injury, harm, or suffering on another, either because of a hostile impulse or out of deep-seated meanness: the malice and spite of a lifelong enemy.
2. Law . evil intent on the part of a person who commits a wrongful act injurious to others.

—Synonyms
1. ill will, spite, spitefulness; animosity, enmity; malevolence; venom, hate, hatred; bitterness, rancor. See grudge.

Lahela
November 19th, 2010, 10:14 AM
Definition of malice 

–noun
1. desire to inflict injury, harm, or suffering on another, either because of a hostile impulse or out of deep-seated meanness: the malice and spite of a lifelong enemy.
2. Law . evil intent on the part of a person who commits a wrongful act injurious to others.

—Synonyms
1. ill will, spite, spitefulness; animosity, enmity; malevolence; venom, hate, hatred; bitterness, rancor. See grudge.

Fits most of the ship ;)

jelgate
November 19th, 2010, 10:19 AM
Fits most of the ship ;)

...and Gateworld forum:P

Lahela
November 19th, 2010, 10:23 AM
...and Gateworld forum:P

:lol: You said it, Jel!

nx01a
November 19th, 2010, 12:18 PM
Rewatch.. HE was the only one who tried to warn them off.

He said nothing about what he was doing with the remote while he was doing it, and after the explosion claimed he was only checking the time.

His dumb ass was the one who stood up and made himself the target not rush..

Sigh.

I think it was more he hoped that with both coming back someone would realize it was him.. not simeon.

Er...

maybe they were.. off screen.

Well, they sure did a bang up job of helping.:)

Starrtom
November 19th, 2010, 12:59 PM
In Australia we see it on friday nights, 3 days later then the US, so I saw it last night and all I can say is wow. This season is just getting better and better. The final scene where Rush kills Semeon and the Camera angle was awsome. Talk about a man on a mission. Very powerful and brilliant epsode.

leanbarton
November 19th, 2010, 04:34 PM
I have to say this is the best episode of the season so far. You can slowly see the characters changing, and the events that are making them develop. I thought this ep. was amazing. and that's saying something from me.

RedXian
November 19th, 2010, 07:34 PM
I am not sure if it was just Eli trying to hide his pain or not, but in this episode I am starting to get the feeling that deep down his very similar to Rush, and actually thinks himself better than the overs, who just "slow him down". Could be an interesting development to watch. Maybe he starts to get power hungry from the control room, while Rush gets more distant?

Well, Eli was behaving a lot like Rush on the Bridge. Especially towards Volker.

hedwig
November 19th, 2010, 08:15 PM
Well, Eli was behaving a lot like Rush on the Bridge. Especially towards Volker.

It isn't really surprising, given what's just happened. And I didn't feel Eli was acting like Rush. He was just being Eli, having gone through a traumatic experience. And that often brings out the less than pleasant side of people.

Kayzersoze
November 19th, 2010, 09:35 PM
Filled with Malice or not, poor Eli is back to making shower babies. Gotta feel for the guy ... Fanta-Pants was one hot chick.

I enjoyed the ep. I'm glad Rush killed Simeon - anything less would've been too much of a cop out by the writers. Although my preference would've been to torture him for information, then kill him slowly. But I guess dragging his sorry arse back to the gate would've been a mission.

Someone on another thread mentioned the possibility of Wheels & Fanta-Pants being trapped in the stone system 'buffer' or something as a possibility. That'd be kinda odd, don't know how they could bring them back from that. Only way I see it being possibly to bring them back would be via time-travel like they did in 'Time' somehow. But that's even less likely.

Nah I reckon they're goners. And the show will, somehow, be better for it. More dark & gritty.

garhkal
November 20th, 2010, 03:06 AM
Ok just a side note but people are making far too many threads!!! there are two pages work and all have like 8 replies! lol

Cause we have so much to say about this ep..


Then by your standards Eli is equally guilty of malice. His first words after seeing Ginn dead were, "Give me a gun." when Simeon was still on the ship, then later Young found him getting geared up to go kill him on the planet.

Well said. Rush and Eli both would have done the deed had Young given eli a gun and he got down there... Maliace is more in what simeon did. Malice is also toying with your enemy to put fear into them... much like he did with greer, scott and rush.


Well, Eli was behaving a lot like Rush on the Bridge. Especially towards Volker.

Mini me rush??

Vanek26
November 20th, 2010, 09:56 AM
Well, Eli was behaving a lot like Rush on the Bridge. Especially towards Volker.

They still aren't as bad as Mckay towards the other scientists on Atlantis minus Zelenka.

Though I wish they would stop picking on Volker. Poor guy.

Callie
November 20th, 2010, 04:56 PM
Despite his claims that he was hopeless when Simeon was holding him at gunpoint, Volker may not have been as useless as he thinks. When they’re discussing the three planets in range at the beginning of the episode, Dale says that one is a wasteland and two show some promise. Forced to dial at gunpoint, it seems that he was smart enough to dial the wasteland, thereby giving Simeon less of a pleasant getaway.

hart37
November 20th, 2010, 05:35 PM
I have to say this is the best episode of the season so far. You can slowly see the characters changing, and the events that are making them develop. I thought this ep. was amazing. and that's saying something from me.

Completely agree. If SGU keep pumping out eps like this I'll be a happy panda. I just wished they hadn't killed off Gin, I was liking what I saw of her and wish it was Wray instead ;)

Sapphire_Jade
November 20th, 2010, 05:36 PM
Completely agree. If SGU keep pumping out eps like this I'll be a happy panda. I just wished they hadn't killed off Gin, I was liking what I saw of her and wish it was Wray instead ;)

Me too!!!

SGU1
November 21st, 2010, 01:32 PM
Completely agree. If SGU keep pumping out eps like this I'll be a happy panda. I just wished they hadn't killed off Gin, I was liking what I saw of her and wish it was Wray instead ;)

me three!!

Pharaoh Atem
November 21st, 2010, 06:26 PM
Simeon's on your ship killing your girlfriends and planting bombs on your scientists

:S

Kayzersoze
November 21st, 2010, 06:43 PM
In Australia we see it on friday nights, 3 days later then the US...
Which channel, and which city, just curiously? Last time I saw SGU on TV was the pilot, about 2 months after it aired (and I subsequently BT'd) in the US. I've seen it on once since then at some random hour on one of the new digital channels...
If I knew it was on regularly here (and that's the biggest problem - programming consistency) and if I had any notion that watching it would somehow add to some numbers that get sent to SyFy or MGM or whoever decides if it stays on, then I'd happily sit through ads and watch it a day or two late.

In any case, it looks like we're a bit back to mystery and intrigue rather than action & body-loss with this weeks ep (just watched the preview).

hart37
November 21st, 2010, 07:06 PM
Which channel, and which city, just curiously? Last time I saw SGU on TV was the pilot, about 2 months after it aired (and I subsequently BT'd) in the US. I've seen it on once since then at some random hour on one of the new digital channels...
If I knew it was on regularly here (and that's the biggest problem - programming consistency) and if I had any notion that watching it would somehow add to some numbers that get sent to SyFy or MGM or whoever decides if it stays on, then I'd happily sit through ads and watch it a day or two late.

In any case, it looks like we're a bit back to mystery and intrigue rather than action & body-loss with this weeks ep (just watched the preview).

Sci-Fi channel every Friday then replayed over Saturday and Sunday, that is if you have Austar or Foxtel. Normal TV will probably show it a month or 2 after sci-fi have finished showing it, at least that was the case with season 1.

Kayzersoze
November 21st, 2010, 07:22 PM
Sci-Fi channel every Friday then replayed over Saturday and Sunday, that is if you have Austar or Foxtel. Normal TV will probably show it a month or 2 after sci-fi have finished showing it, at least that was the case with season 1.
Aaah ... pay-TV. That explains that.

MattSilver 3k
November 22nd, 2010, 09:04 AM
Simeon's on your ship killing your girlfriends and planting bombs on your scientists

:S

:(

But then Rush is on your alien planet stampeding your animals and shooting Simeon in the face. At least there's that.

xxxevilgrinxxx
November 22nd, 2010, 10:40 AM
I've been smacked hard with the evil Flu of Doom, so this review is late...but at least it's here :D


Malice Review [SGU 208]

xxxevilgrinxxx | Published: November 22, 2010 | crossposted from my personal blog


In a Western, it always comes down to two characters. In a good Western, there’s scant difference between the two and “Malice” is a very good western. Two hard men meet in a harder environment, both with vengeance in their hearts. Only one leaves. Nobody wins. There are no heroes.

In “Malice”, the contributing cast is whittled away, leaving only Rush and Simeon. Rush is driven mad by the death of Amanda Perry and in your average story, this in itself would be enough, but following up on the events of “The Greater good”, Rush is responsible for her death. If he hadn’t lied, there would have been no reason for her to be on Destiny in the first place which is something he’s going to live with for a long time.

Just as there are no real heroes in a good Western, there are no true villains either and this is where Simeon comes in. Rush has been with us from the beginning and we’ve come to know his motivations and the shades of grey that make up the character. Simeon’s role as a Lucian Alliance soldier is perhaps enough to put him down in the ‘villain’ column and his behaviour while aboard Destiny would make him a bad date, at the very least, but nothing is ever that simple.

From episodes previous, Simeon has displayed both a military bearing and military knowledge, and further, while speaking to Col. Young he displayed respect and deference due a superior. Unlike the other Lucian Alliance members, Simeon has remained loyal to his cause, to his people, despite considerable pressure and incentive to do otherwise. With Ginn’s further betrayal to the LA cause, Simeon is looking down the barrel of possible torture to have him reveal information. Betrayal, imprisonment or death. In the end, I believe that Simeon sought the option of a soldier’s death, an honourable death, rather than be forced to reveal information that would have him die a traitor.

As a soldier, Simeon took down armed guards on his way off Destiny but he didn’t shoot either Park or Volker, despite a clear opportunity. What happened to Park was certainly terrifying (and her terror was brilliantly portrayed) but he used a device that an LA member had already instructed the Destiny crew on disarming, knowing that whoever came through the Stargate after him would have to stop and disarm the device first. While this is not likely to be a clean military tactic, it’s certainly a sound one. This tactic is repeated with the explosive device that rendered James’ team immobile and again, when Simeon shot Greer. In all of these instances, far more deadly force could have been applied but the goal is to hinder, not to kill.

What is more telling is the many instances when Simeon is shown to have a clear opportunity to kill his pursuers and doesn’t take it. The gun sight trained on Rush’s back. Shooting a kino, twice, in flight, while Rush is standing in the open a few feet away. The shot to wound Greer could have just as easily killed him. Finally, in the last standoff, with his every shot going wide of Rush. I don’t believe that every time a soldier takes a shot, that he will make a kill, but it’s stretching credulity to assume he couldn’t have shot to kill at least one of them. Unless it was never the intention at all.


SIMEON: I understand revenge. Your people have killed enough of mine – people I cared about. I let you live. You know why? I wanted you to live with it the way I have. I wanted the pain to eat you alive. I know it’s a fate worse than death. I let you live, but next time I won’t. You want your revenge? You come and get it, Rush. I’m gonna put you out of your misery. Come and get me.


Upon reading the spoilers for this episode, I had believed that the “Malice” we would be seeing would be Rush’s and while that exists, it’s not alone. Like the best of Westerns, the two characters have a hell of a lot in common, in the hurt they carry. Rush’s we are aware of. It’s not Rush’s misery, it’s Simeon’s. It’s eaten him alive, a fate worse than death, and I think he threw himself into the cause of the Lucian Alliance because it was the only way of dealing with that wound. And now he’s lost that. If suicide was an option, he certainly had the will to act on it before now. He won’t kill Rush because who would be left to kill him? When the stampede didn’t kill him, he throws one last taunt at Rush. I didn’t see it as pleading for his life, just one more poke at a raw wound, to assure that Rush would kill him.

The death of Simeon won’t sooth Rush’s pain over the loss of Amanda Perry and it won’t ease his complicity in her death. Nothing has been resolved and in the killing of a man that may have offered information, provided he would talk, there are unforeseen consequences ahead. In what happens next, Rush will bear a measure of responsibility for that also. As Simeon taunted, Rush will have to live with it.

The final walk back to the Stargate made for a beautiful ending. The sheer emptiness, with nothing but the sound of the wind howling, breaking for a melancholy score, against vast bleak panoramas where Rush appears tiny against the landscape make for the theme of the West distilled into its purest elements.


YOUNG: I also know that this is not something that is in you; and that’s not something that you should be ashamed of. Now listen to me. Killing someone, no matter *how* much you think they deserve it, is gonna change you, all right? Don’t you act like you are the only person aboard this ship that has lost someone that they care about… I need you to get back to the Bridge.


Apart from the two main characters, there are elements taking place in the background and, while they were not front and centre in this episode, the ramifications will echo through upcoming episodes. Rush wasn’t the only man that lost a love and the weight of Ginn’s death is enough to nearly destroy Eli. It is doubtful, given Simeon’s actions, that Simeon would have shot Eli if Eli had managed to go down to the planet but I’m glad that Eli never got the chance. Killing isn’t in him and, as Young states, that’s nothing to be ashamed of. Eli will hurt for a long time but the weight of murder is not something he’ll have to carry. With all that Young has lost, he has the authority to reach Eli and Eli has the maturity to take it to heart.

Speaking of maturity, Scott continues to develop into a fine officer. While still a youthful optimist, his decisions show that he is developing a more realistic world view, summed up neatly in his use of the word “complicated”. In this, I find him more like Young every day. Trying to do what’s right doesn’t always mean doing what’s right, it means doing the best you can with what you have. A younger Scott would never have countenanced the idea of Rush killing Simeon; he would have fought until he was blue in the face that it was wrong. Now it’s not a matter of whether Rush kills Simeon but only a matter of timing.

There are consequences to that death, of course but there are consequences for every action, taken or untaken. There’s no way to know if Simeon would have talked, or even if he had anything valuable to offer. In any case, there would have been no way to verify. What concerns me more are the consequences from Chloe being on the bridge. In Rush giving Chloe the problems to solve, that damage may have already begun. Rush couldn’t solve the problem and, unwilling to share with any of the others, went to Chloe. In Eli’s current emotional state, he was in no position to pull a rabbit out of his hat regarding a problem Rush had been trying to solve for so long already.

Was it wrong for Young to suggest that Chloe may be able to help on the bridge? Only time will tell. Something needed to be done and there was an asset at hand. In any case, there would have been consequences if the team on the planet, including Rush, couldn’t get back to the Destiny and whatever fate Destiny is yet to meet, they’re better prepared with Rush aboard than not. When Rush returns, perhaps he can at least find out what Chloe has set in motion. Provided he has clear access to the bridge.

Young may be willing to work with Rush and he will clearly cooperate in order to set an appropriate example for the crew but it’s a far cry from trust. In the beginning of the episode, Young not only physically blocked Rush from entering the bridge but he dismissed him as well. A spirit of cooperation goes both ways. He will cooperate with Rush, but Rush will have to cooperate as well. I can only hope that with everyone on board, those unforeseen consequences won’t be as dire as they sound.

Lastly, there is Varro. Since the incursion, Varro has been very eager to get into the good graces of the Destiny crew. This could very well be sincere, I’d like it to be sincere, but I also don’t forget that this is a man that so easily betrayed his cause. A man that continues to be a clear leader amongst the LA on board, who continues to foster good relations between the LA and the crew. All of this could be on the up and up, but in Simeon was an enemy that could be trusted, in that it was clear whose side he was on. I don’t trust Varro and I don’t believe him when he states that there is no one else among the prisoner’s that is of Simeon and Ginn’s clan. I don’t trust how close he is with TJ. Young may not show affection regularly but when he does, he is absolutely sincere, whereas with Varro, it only looks sincere. I simply don’t trust him.

I’ve been reserving a rating of 10, knowing that this episode was coming. It does not disappoint and has earned a solid 10. Further, I’d be mightily surprised if this episode earns no nominations, not only for the actors involved but for the writing and cinematography. Beautifully done.

Rating: 10/10

SoulReaver
November 22nd, 2010, 01:06 PM
Yes. After some some time with Greer.lol

if anything it's Simeon who'd make Greer beg for mercy
Greer is all talk, but in the end he proved as useless as usual & he couldn't prevent Simeon from killing Ginn (either that, or he actually let Simeon kill her, although of course that's debatable)



in the end Greer even came to respect Simeon, at least this was made quite clear in this ep

Misfits
November 22nd, 2010, 02:28 PM
Interesting Episode.

Now that I have had time for the details of the episode sink in, the following points are of interest.

The Good - Rush blaming himself for the death of Dr. Perry.
This is exactly the point I made in the last episode which brought so much criticism from Rush defenders. So, what happens in this episode? Rush blamed himself for the death of Dr. Perry. And rightfully so. If it wasn't for his scheming and lying, Dr. Perry wouldn't have been on Destiny. Rush is sorely responsible, and he knew it.

The Bad - Rush blaming himself for the death of Dr. Perry.
If Rush keeps on having these moments of clarity, these forum pages are going to be bare of any argument regarding Rush's guilt.
Countless of pages were used to defend Rush in regards to Riley's death. Not necessary any more.
A few pages were used to defend Rush regarding Dr. Perry's death, Not necessary anymore.

As for Rush's declaration that he won't keep secrets and co-operate fully, well, that lasted less than a day. Just like the last time.
In end of 'Space' Rush agreed to put the past behind, then proceeded to wage a mutiny, almost leading to Young and Scott, in the shuttle, vaporizing.
This time was no different.
Asked by Scott what he was doing with the Kino remote. Rush said he was checking time. How quaint. The character just doesn't change.
He has the ability to concentrate on a singular goal, everything and everybody else be damned.
Scott's perception of Rush in 'Cloverdale' is absolutely correct.
Rush, as Justice of Peace had such a narrow office, illustrating Rush's narrow mindset.

Now, on to the Destiny Mission.
As I have opined before, the mission is problematic as defined by Rush.
As we have learned in this episode, the structure in the background radiation is a repeating loop.
It would be reasonable to conclude that it doesn't take million+ years to see the loop.
Then, the question would be how long does it take to view one loop? After recognizing the loop, why is Destiny still on it's journey? Is it to find the source of this transmission? If it were, how long and how far would Destiny have to continue to travel to find it? Can it be found? How does Destiny know which way to go? Why send Seeder ships ahead of Destiny if investigating the background radiation was the mission? Does the seeder ships have some kind of detection device to locate the source?
Too many questions without a reasonable theory to answer these questions.
An interesting tidbit is that Rush said the Ancients meant to come to Destiny.
Who's to say they didn't? What if the Ancients did make it to Destiny, over 10,000 years ago, from Atlantis in Pegasus Galaxy, before they lost the war to the Wraith, and deciphering the background radiation was a key component that enabled the Alterans to ascend? Then, the Alterans gated back to Atlantis leaving Destiny on it's journey to be found later by their descendants.
This possibility makes a lot of sense because the possibility to ascension would be a perfect motive for Rush to risk everything to attain. Power to change things, to right the wrongs, to control one's fate.
Rush has mentioned about ascension in 'Time', Dr. Perry talked about conversation with Rush regarding this subject before the Icarus project, etc...
It would explain Rush's singular obsession with Destiny. As well as LA's interest in it.

morbosfist
November 22nd, 2010, 03:46 PM
A repeating pattern doesn't mean the signal changes over time. Otherwise the Ancients would never need to go anywhere. They could just stay at home and wait it out. The signal is constant and repeats at a regular interval, but they don't have the entire pattern, hence sending out Destiny to collect it.

jelgate
November 22nd, 2010, 03:49 PM
lol

if anything it's Simeon who'd make Greer beg for mercy
Greer is all talk, but in the end he proved as useless as usual & he couldn't prevent Simeon from killing Ginn (either that, or he actually let Simeon kill her, although of course that's debatable)



in the end Greer even came to respect Simeon, at least this was made quite clear in this ep

I don't see what your point is. Greer can't be everywhere. Being one of the highest ranked soldier he probably has more important duties then gurading

morbosfist
November 22nd, 2010, 03:54 PM
He only harasses Simeon while off-duty. It's a good way to pass the time.

Misfits
November 22nd, 2010, 03:57 PM
A repeating pattern doesn't mean the signal changes over time. Otherwise the Ancients would never need to go anywhere. They could just stay at home and wait it out. The signal is constant and repeats at a regular interval, but they don't have the entire pattern, hence sending out Destiny to collect it.

Just the same, Destiny was sent out million+ years ago, it would seem that Destiny would have gathered the entire pattern a long time ago. And if Destiny didn't gather the whole pattern after million+ years, how much longer would be required? Is it even possible? Why send out seeder ships ahead of Destiny? Do they have a way to track the origin of the signal? Otherwise, why send the ships out in any particular direction?
Questions, questions, and no reasonable theory that answers these questions, if the mission was as described by Rush.

morbosfist
November 22nd, 2010, 04:11 PM
Just the same, Destiny was sent out million+ years ago, it would seem that Destiny would have gathered the entire pattern a long time ago. And if Destiny didn't gather the whole pattern after million+ years, how much longer would be required? Is it even possible? Why send out seeder ships ahead of Destiny? Do they have a way to track the origin of the signal? Otherwise, why send the ships out in any particular direction?
Questions, questions, and no reasonable theory that answers these questions, if the mission was as described by Rush.The fact that you insist on denying anything Rush says is the reason you keep misunderstanding. The seed ships exist to plot a course for Destiny to follow and drop gates for supply runs. Destiny hasn't gathered the entire pattern yet because if it did it would still be in the database (unless the Ancients deleted it, in which case why not just scrub the whole mission since you're done?), and Rush would have found it by now.

Destiny's mission is a very very very long term mission, and the Ancients knew that going in.

Misfits
November 22nd, 2010, 04:34 PM
The fact that you insist on denying anything Rush says is the reason you keep misunderstanding. The seed ships exist to plot a course for Destiny to follow and drop gates for supply runs. Destiny hasn't gathered the entire pattern yet because if it did it would still be in the database (unless the Ancients deleted it, in which case why not just scrub the whole mission since you're done?), and Rush would have found it by now.

Destiny's mission is a very very very long term mission, and the Ancients knew that going in.

Negative.

I'm looking at the logic of the mission.
If you were curious about a message in the background radiation, why would you send seeder ships ahead of Destiny?
I know what the seeder ships do. What I don't comprehend is why would you do it?
What would be the benefit to the mission to send ANY seeder ships ahead of Destiny?
Is there any way to locate the source of the signal? If not, then, how would you know which way to send any of the ships?
As for the longevity of the mission, million+ years? We do know that the life span of Alterans is not millions of years, right?
If their life span is anything similar to ours, then we're talking about a mission that spans hundreds of thousands of generations. Are you kidding me? Who in their right mind would put such a mission in motion?
As for gathering the whole pattern, if Destiny has not done it already after million+ years, how much longer will it take? Another million+ years? or longer?
All these questions are daunting, to say the least, and make very little sense if Rush's mission statement is to be believed.
That's my problem with Rush's explanation.

morbosfist
November 22nd, 2010, 04:54 PM
So, a generational mission to collect the secret behind the universe itself is totally unthinkable, yet seeding life and waiting millions of years for it to evolve so you can run social experiments on them isn't? You may not be able to think beyond your own lifetime, but the Ancients did it constantly.

The seed ships exist because Destiny needs a course to follow and you need a way to gather supplies. If you have the technology to make it easier on yourself, why not do it? Why build a floating city that can fly through space with the aid of a shield when a starship is simpler?

Misfits
November 22nd, 2010, 05:21 PM
So, a generational mission to collect the secret behind the universe itself is totally unthinkable, yet seeding life and waiting millions of years for it to evolve so you can run social experiments on them isn't? You may not be able to think beyond your own lifetime, but the Ancients did it constantly.

The seed ships exist because Destiny needs a course to follow and you need a way to gather supplies. If you have the technology to make it easier on yourself, why not do it? Why build a floating city that can fly through space with the aid of a shield when a starship is simpler?

Tens of thousands of generations?
Not a few generations, mind you, tens of thousands of generations later.
We're talking about millions of years. AND there may be no end.

As for the seeder ships, it would be more practical to construct a few bigger shuttles to enable in gathering supplies after a million years in journey, them to seed planets for a million+ years with several ships.

Even if we believe that the Alterans meant to investigate the background radiation pattern millions of years later, if the pattern has not been fully gathered by now, how much longer would it take? Millions of years more? Or longer?

And can the source of the background radiation be ascertained? If not, then how would they know which way to send the ship?

These facts do not fit any logic whatsoever.

As fot building a city space ship, I can see the logic of it better than the particulars of this mission.

morbosfist
November 22nd, 2010, 05:33 PM
They're perfectly logical, you just refuse to see it. Shuttles require you to park in orbit, fly down, then fly back up and go to the next world to do it all over. Stargates let you press a few buttons and walk to a planet from outside the solar system, several even. It's much more efficient, and when you don't have to worry about resources, it's also more practical.

The mission, no matter how long it takes, is still something the Ancients were the kind of people to do. Life takes forever to evolve, so long that your corpse will have rotted into nothingness even if you stayed in stasis the entire time. Why do it if you don't benefit? Because someone will, someone you'll never meet. You do it because you're curious, because you want someone to benefit from it, and most importantly for the simple reason that you can. You may not be that forward-thinking, but the Ancients were, and until you accept this fact you're never going to understand the idea.

They don't need to find a specific source. Just point the ship in one direction and let fly. It's background radiation. It isn't being transmitted from anywhere in particular.

Misfits
November 22nd, 2010, 06:28 PM
They're perfectly logical, you just refuse to see it. Shuttles require you to park in orbit, fly down, then fly back up and go to the next world to do it all over. Stargates let you press a few buttons and walk to a planet from outside the solar system, several even. It's much more efficient, and when you don't have to worry about resources, it's also more practical.

The mission, no matter how long it takes, is still something the Ancients were the kind of people to do. Life takes forever to evolve, so long that your corpse will have rotted into nothingness even if you stayed in stasis the entire time. Why do it if you don't benefit? Because someone will, someone you'll never meet. You do it because you're curious, because you want someone to benefit from it, and most importantly for the simple reason that you can. You may not be that forward-thinking, but the Ancients were, and until you accept this fact you're never going to understand the idea.

They don't need to find a specific source. Just point the ship in one direction and let fly. It's background radiation. It isn't being transmitted from anywhere in particular.

Just because you say it is logical, doesn't make it so.

Haven't you learned from all the logical reasons why you claimed Rush was innocent, didn't make it so. Rush admitted to his guilt. How logical was that?

As for seeder ships, if the mission is to investigate the background radiation, then why would the Alterans send several seeder ships ahead of Destiny and seed millions of planets for million+ years on the chance that they could use a few after a million+ years?

This is rational to you?

As for gathering all info on the pattern in the background radiation, after million+ years, if it not complete already, how much longer would it take? Another million years? or longer?
If that is the case, what would be the point of this crew to stay on Destiny?
For all we know, it could take more years than this crew has to give.

As for the source, if there isn't one that they can locate, then why did the Alterans choose this particular direction? Did someone close their eyes and point into the sky and said that way?

All of these don't add up IF you take Rush at his word.

Whereas, if the gathering of the background radiation was a secondary part of the overall mission, then, it would make better sense, don't you think?

My point is that there had to be more to this mission than just gathering data on the background radiation.

If Alterans planed to seed galaxies so that they can travel, colonize, seed galaxies with new life, AND investigate the background radiation, especially if deciphering the pattern was a key component to achieve ascension, then, it would make sense.
It would also explain the obsession that Rush has about Destiny.

morbosfist
November 22nd, 2010, 06:33 PM
The mission is perfectly rational. There's a degraded signal, so they sent Destiny out to get the rest of it. You don't want it to be rational, and you can't accept the scale involved, so you're inventing these secondary factors to try to justify that belief. Destiny was built to find the signal. Everything is secondary to that. It doesn't matter how long it takes or will take, that is its purpose. It doesn't have anything to do with seeding life, because there's no way to get back to all those galaxies once Destiny has passed them. It's about going forward, not looking back.

This is all I'm going to say on the matter. If you want to believe there's more to it, fine. I'm not going on for pages.

Misfits
November 22nd, 2010, 07:03 PM
The mission is perfectly rational. There's a degraded signal, so they sent Destiny out to get the rest of it. You don't want it to be rational, and you can't accept the scale involved, so you're inventing these secondary factors to try to justify that belief. Destiny was built to find the signal. Everything is secondary to that. It doesn't matter how long it takes or will take, that is its purpose. It doesn't have anything to do with seeding life, because there's no way to get back to all those galaxies once Destiny has passed them. It's about going forward, not looking back.

This is all I'm going to say on the matter. If you want to believe there's more to it, fine. I'm not going on for pages.

I agree with you that we are not going on for pages discussing this subject, unless other people chime in.

I will say this as my last comment.

Rationally speaking, a lot of thing just don't add up if all you're doing is taking Rush at his word.

As Volker said 'He's done nothing but lie to us.'

As previously done by Rush, there seems to be more to this mission than what he told Young. Colonizing, seeding with life, ascension, and who knows what else.

Lastly, the concept that the seeder ships will place Stargates on millions of planets that will never be used. This would seem to me a total irrational waste.

PantheraLeo
November 22nd, 2010, 07:26 PM
even if the mission had to take tens or hundreds of millions of years long, the Ancients were prepared for it.
The wealth gained from aquiring knowledge cannot be compared with a that of a lifetime.
The Ancients didn't think individually, they though of themselves as a whole.

Misfits
November 22nd, 2010, 07:57 PM
even if the mission had to take tens or hundreds of millions of years long, the Ancients were prepared for it.
The wealth gained from aquiring knowledge cannot be compared with a that of a lifetime.
The Ancients didn't think individually, they though of themselves as a whole.

Yeah, but, the problem is how does this affect the current occupiers of Destiny.

Rush said the Ancients were supposed to come to Destiny thousands of years ago.
If that was the intention, then, were they planning to spend thousands of years aboard destiny? How many generations?

See where this gets very tricky. Were they planning to rotate crews in and out of Destiny? Possibly.

If the Data gathered by Destiny had million more years to complete, would they have stayed, or come back a million years later?

All these questions are perplexing.

garhkal
November 23rd, 2010, 02:12 AM
On the "rush going back to his old ways" after trying to get the Kino remote to tell him where the other remote is,, i am thinking he was that way with scott as it should have (if scott looked over his shoulder, or was more tech minded) obvious to him he was using it to do what he did.. since other than controllng the remote or gate, what else would it be used for?

Angela V
November 23rd, 2010, 06:57 AM
I was actually worried about Park and James. They're not in the promo photos as women of SGU and every sort of panel discussion, they're not on the panel either.

The actress was on Canada's InnerSpace recently. We'll let anyone on here :)

hedwig
November 23rd, 2010, 08:21 AM
I was actually worried about Park and James. They're not in the promo photos as women of SGU and every sort of panel discussion, they're not on the panel either. I guess they could be / will be red shirted sooner or later. Which would suck if the LA destroys earth. Limited breeding potential.

James and Park are secondary characters; not in the main list of stars. They really should be in the promo photos of women of SGU, since they seem to get nearly as much time as the main women stars. And often secondary characters are not included on panel discussions. I think Teryl Rothery was the only secondary character from SG1 that was included in panel discussions and cons. And the woman who played many of the wraith queens on SGA was also included, but it's way less common for secondary characters to be included in such things.

I've noticed it's usually women guest stars that get killed, rather than the main stars.

generaloneill
November 23rd, 2010, 01:11 PM
Best episode so far this season packed full of tension both on the planet and on destiny,
i knew exactly what rush was going to do when i saw the herd of creatures and the look on simeon's when the herd ran towards him priceless, i would do the same in rush's place i care a lot about someone i know the same way rush cared about Amanda Perry and if something happened to her i would do what rush did consequences be damned.

Rush has gained some respect from me for going the punisher on simeon i never cared about rush that much prior to this episode but he's now my current favourite character

My favourite rush scene prior to this episode was back in season 1 when Eli asked him to record a message on the kino and he just looked into the kino, rush said more with that stare than everyone else did with their talking about themselves.

Infinite-Possibilities
November 23rd, 2010, 08:10 PM
This was a pretty good episode. I think it was a step up from the usual fare. It was a little strange because I think I might have expected an underwhelming one this time for some reason. But this one felt like it went by pretty fast, which I guess means it was a lot of fun.

The opening segment was really good. It had some great tension and atmosphere. I wasn't exactly crazy about killing Ginn and Perry, simply because they feels a little like wastes of characters now, but I would hope their deaths result in some sort of far reaching consequences down the line for Eli and Rush as far as character development goes.

One thing I did like was some of the Scott's leadership stuff. I also especially loved what sounded like duduk music at the end.

rcpadrick
November 24th, 2010, 07:28 AM
I know this is going to be unpopular, but this was -- in my opinion -- a simply terrible episode. The action wasn't sustained, the strategies were predictable, and the dialogue was flacid.

And now that we're an episode past this one, are they ever going to explore Eli's reaction and coping with Ginn's death? I mean, it seemed like he genuinely cared for her, and not one mention of it has bee made.

Maybe it's me, but these last couple episodes (Malice and Visitation) have been awful.

Linda06
November 24th, 2010, 08:22 AM
Poor Ginn and Amanda, poor Eli and Rush, poor TJ, poor everyone...DAMN YOU SIMEON. I hope he rots in hell for this. He kills two good people with one cowardice act, not to mention those good soldiers who were just going about their business. That SOB deserved everything that was coming to him.

Seems a waste though killing not one but two interesting women, we don't really have any interesting women, maybe TJ but that's really about it. Most of the women don't really get all that much screentime, that's one of the things I'm a little disappointed at but it doesn't bother me as much as it did in SGA, because I think the other characters are really quite complex and interesting. I was hoping Ginn would at least stick around for a while, I was beginning to like her. even though we didn't get to see much of her

Overall though this was a very good episode.

And I don't blame Rush one bit for what he done in the end. Simeon was very dangerous, he had to be dealt with, It's just a damn pity they didn't deal with him sooner, all this might have been avoidable.

Matt G
November 24th, 2010, 01:56 PM
1. Woah, an old-school Stargate style ep!

2. Woah, Rush showing emotion? In this reality? Can't blame him for wanting to kill Simeon really.

3. Was it the right thing to do in terms of the bigger picture though? Hell no. In a lot of ways killing Simeon made Rush look like Young after(ironically) stranding Rush in Justice. The morality of the action was murky but what made it stand out was the stupidity. One flaw I would have never pinned on Rush is stupidity.

4. Eli...careful you don't lose the plot mate!

5. If Chloe/the Blue presence in Chloe stays benign I'll be very surprised!

Very nice ep though! :) Best of the season so far!

Darkside_Six
December 5th, 2010, 07:20 PM
The SGC really needs to be introduced to the concept of body armour.

garhkal
December 6th, 2010, 02:02 AM
We should have lots of Kull warrior's armors out there..

GateGhost
December 8th, 2010, 02:34 PM
I jumped when I watched this episode.

polomare
December 12th, 2010, 05:38 PM
My Opinion: Best ep of Season 2, hands down. Might even be the best or second best of the entire series to date.
Most of what I like about the ep has already been said, so I won't repeat, but what I haven't seen is anyone commenting on the music. I think it was pure poetry and whoever scored this ep should get an award.

*thumbs up* for the animal justice at the end!
Oh, and when Rush is standing over Simeon and he lamely tries to buy his life by saying "I have information" and Rush raises his gun, I could just see him thinking: "And I have a gun." Bam! Take that dirtbag! MUHA! Loved that part.

It's the only ep to date that I have watched 3 times in a row.

garhkal
December 13th, 2010, 01:55 AM
I was hoping we heard rush say "And..." bang.

polomare
December 14th, 2010, 02:44 AM
I was hoping we heard rush say "And..." bang.

Hahaha! Yeah . . . .

Jumper_One
January 18th, 2011, 02:38 AM
Shawna Buchanan writes: “Can you explain why Simeon was allowed to just wander around the ship menacing people in a clearly villainous way with only one guy guarding him when everyone else who they had even the least cause to suspect of potentially doing something bad was kept under lock and key?”

Answer: All of the Lucian Alliance members were kept under lock and key until they (seemingly) started cooperating with Homeworld Command at which point they were permitted limited freedom under escort.
http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2011/01/17/january-17-2011-the-iron-hunt-by-marjorie-m-liu/

maneth
January 27th, 2012, 09:31 AM
Cool ep. Loved the music in this one, and yeah, Simeon deserved what he got. All I'm worried now is the effect on Rush, who isn't the most stable personality in the Universe anyway. I'm really hoping they'll explore the effects of Ginn's death on Eli in this show. And I second the worry about them killing off the two interesting women in the show in one ep...

ZRFTS
December 11th, 2012, 09:15 PM
Funny how this episode follows "The Greater Good"; mainly because it's boringly bad. To be honest I've never been a huge fan of these "hunt episodes with long drawn out scenes." Atlantis's "The Defiant One" was one of those episodes and it was in a series that contained the old SG format; it may seem interesting to see these people try to outwit each other and the subtle character interactions that may come of it but honestly, I couldn't see it whether it was John Sheppard and Rodney McKay or Ronald Greer, Matthew Scott and Nicholas Rush.

Much of this episode is about hunting the worst character of SGU "Simeone" who has the darkest shade of grey and has no character appeal nor potential and man does that character suck. People may say that his performance is the equivalent of a horror movie, completely creepy and psychologically scary but I wasn't convinced when he got close to characters like TJ and basically said menacing things that equated to a Z-grade horror movie; while they make attempts to make him likeable such as having him plant a bomb on the back of someone and giving him military skills, he's still unlikable and any potential at exploring the dedicated nature of him is wasted. Take for instance this line.

"I understand revenge. Your people have killed enough of mine; people I cared about. I let you live. You know why? I wanted you to live with it the way I have. I wanted the pain to eat you alive. I know it's a fate worse than death. I let you live, but next time I won't. You want your revenge? You come and get it, Rush. I'm gonna put you out of your misery. Come and get me.

The bolded part was potential in that it could of explored what happened to him in the LA, the pain he feels for his companions, his devotion to serve the cause mainly because they're his overlords and what he perceives to be the threat from Earth; his desire to see the people from Earth who he perceives to be his enemies feel his pain but the italic, underlined part is just generic redundancy that destroys any potential that he has. The way he declares that proclamation with the most sinister of voices and the most obvious of emphasis just made me dislike him even more; you're not making yourself out to be a adversary if you do that, you're just making yourself out to be a generic bad guy who has a sinister laugh and everything.

Rush is obviously the focus of this episode and he provides many of the best parts. Him hitting on a wall, him crying and breaking down over the death of Dr. Amanda Perry (RIP) and that provides one of the few bright spots of the episode, dealing with the pain of death. There's just sort of a fire that builds up inside you, one of compassion and one of vengance and Rush and Eli manage to show that well. They're two different people, one is uncertain on how to handle his emotions and is somehow convinced that he needs to go out into the desert and kill Simeone against his strong better judgement and Rush is just somehow calculated in his efforts to kill Simeone, he shows no remorse nor regret; just bitter anger. The contrast between them prove an effective study through the personalities and the way they deal with things; what Eli does may be what a similar person would do, he's just lost and confused by the anger building up inside him and Rush is a person who is surrounded by anger, who is able to utilize logic in order to withhold his emotions, it's disturbing to see Rush do these things but at the same time it's compelling to see Eli's newfound experience with emotion.

However, Rush cannot save the episode even as he provides his trademark sinsisterness with Scott and Greer and even as Scott and Greer attempt to restrain Rush and prevent him from going commando. I have to admire Greer for at least holding it down, it is episodes like this which properly utilize the military side of him but Scott... Scott is unconvincing as a leader yelling out orders, facing off with Rush and just shooting stuff I guess. He isn't in the way alot that he ruins the episode but he doesn't do anything to help the believability aspect of it and in fact, manages to bring down his character. Oddly enough, both seem to be utilizing every trick in the book in order to lengthen the confrontation, while it was somewhat clever the first time; it just becomes annoying when they claim that they don't have a clear shot when you know that they could shoot him and incapacitate him without any effort. It's like in "First Contact" where they could of thrown a grenade and saved the two easily.

Obtusely the best part of the episode has to be where Simeone dies which manages to be both chuckleworthy with it's usage of animals to trample Simeone and harsh with Rush's cold blooded murder of him; this moment is supposed to be a snapshot into the twisted mindstate of Rush, that he would let the chance of saving Earth slip from his hands just to avenge a lover (by the way, the whole thing is forced, it just seemed like such an easy way to give purpose and to make things interesting.) but it's the opposite of that; I celebrated as he met his demise, proud that we would never have to see him again. That shouldn't happen in an episode like this, I should feel stunned and morally terrified but instead, I'm not. It's also reflective of the importance of making characters like Simeone compelling, he was the first person with the potential of being an adversary with his subtle hints but instead he ended up a generic bad guy and the attempts to make the death have weight by saying "You killed the only chance we had to save Earth, he could of had the information." didn't work. I'm supposed to care that Earth is now under danger to an imminent attack but I'm not; I oddly don't care. Which shouldn't happen at all frankly. He may have had info sure but he also admitted that he was lying and there was zero chance he would of broken any information to the guys on Earth.

Surprisingly, Rush's character moment would prove to be somewhat inconsequential later on in the season.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
December 12th, 2012, 03:18 PM
Wow, another good episode.

A little more (a tiny bit) about Destiny's mission.

Rush was kind of a badass, having those animals trample Simeon to nearly death. And in that state, Simeon was ready to reveal what he knew, but nope, Rush shot him.

Tomorrow, remember those people we left on that plant, well they're back.

ZRFTS
December 12th, 2012, 08:20 PM
Rush was kind of a badass, having those animals trample Simeon to nearly death. And in that state, Simeon was ready to reveal what he knew, but nope, Rush shot him.

The animals I agree with; but I disagree that Simeone was going to reveal anything. To me it felt like a last ditch attempt at life; "I have information, you have to keep me alive, the guilt that you killed a guy who knew about the Earth attack will be too great for you to handle is just too much for you to bear if you do it. You care about Earth right?"

He was basically loyal to the end, basically utilizing this environment for a cat and mouse game where he hoped he would kill Rush and powerless when he was finally cornered, using a futile last ditch attempt to preserve his life.

Beside, he killed Rush and Eli's loves with one swoop; do you think he would care much about what happened to both of them much less a turning of the cheek of his own life?

Matt G
December 13th, 2012, 01:36 PM
Midweek, another ep of SGU...

1. Forgot about the hostage taking.

2. And exactly much much of a git Eli was at times.

3. I guess it's not implausible that "almighty God" is responsible for this pattern.

4. Credit to Simeon for being a sly git.

5. Again, stupid from Rush.

Good ep.

Krisz
December 15th, 2012, 06:25 PM
The events of this episode would never have happened if Simeon's guard didn't just follow him around and not react in any way at all when he did something! Simeon's escape was inevitable given this totally unbelievable action on the part of those supposedly guarding a skilled soldier, whose mission was to kill them and take over the ship in the first place.

Then expending the energy to go after him in the faint hope that he'd actually tell them about what he knew about the planned attack on Earth was just a waste to me.

Watching vengeful Rush was entertaining though, loved the moment of military planning with the use of a herd of animals to kill his quarry, and finding out that one Kino remote could track another. The explosive trap that caught James and the others was spectacularly done. I asked Julia Benson about what it was like to film that and she said it was pretty scary and close, got hit by a few stones! I did like the great use of location to add to the whole feel of the episode. Those eroded rock formations certainly added an alien planet feel to it.

It's just funny in a creepy way how Chloe just blanks out and immediately starts doing something to the ship's computer when she's allowed near anything that is a control panel.

garhkal
December 16th, 2012, 01:08 PM
Makes you wonder how much control the "Blues have over her".

Lieutenant Sparrow
December 17th, 2012, 02:56 AM
Okay ep.

And now I remember why Simeon didn't have an escort.

Really gotta feel for Eli. And Rush a little. Eli finally gets a girlfriend on the ship (first girlfriend?) and she's already taken from him. And Rush's scream of anger as he walks down the hall sent chills down my spine.

Some more soldiers of ours dead. They must all be wearing red shirts underneath.

Rush's hero moment as he removes the bomb.

Simeon really had our guys on the ropes. Much more well trained than our guys it seems.

Rush getting the animals to stampede and kill Simeon was cool and cunning.

jelgate
December 24th, 2012, 05:55 PM
I tell you its karma. Yes it was an accident and no conspired to kill Ginn/Perry except maybe Simeon. But given how Rush was responsible for so many people on Destiny it almost seems like karma that his actions of hiding the bridge has the consquences of killing the person that Rush loves the most. This also has the advantage of Rush going on a one man vendetta. It was interesting to see him go nuts. He is usally a cold calculating person who rarely gives into emotions like that. You see Rush planning things it was different to see Rush go mad in chasing Simeon It was crazy wathcing Rush and Simeon have a battle of wits. The guy was not an idiot. That is what made SGU great. The villians were so more multi-dimensional compared to the previous shows. We see why Simeon does what he did instead of the generic opposing the protanganists. I could criticize Rush of letting a potential source of information die like that but I have wonder if Simeon would reval such information. The B plot of Eli wanting to follow Rush was just stupid. It seemed foolish for Eli to think he could do anthing. I understand grieving of Ginn but to do anything against to avenge was foolish. Finally I liked how even after finding the bridge the crew still doesn't know everything. We still can't around the countdown clock or course plotting without an alien infected Chloe. That type of mystery of Destiny and the unknown was great compared to how we knew everything about the mundane Atlantis

garhkal
January 3rd, 2013, 02:10 PM
Well, they just DID get access to it.. Rush is the only one who up till then had any experience operating the bridge controls.

Cluas
March 3rd, 2013, 10:11 PM
I thought this was average, I did enjoy Rush as a cowboy. Not Eli...

Wasn't this ep inspired by some old western?

min min light
March 4th, 2013, 12:51 AM
Don't almost all sci-fi shows eventually do a Western theme? I used to wonder why that was.

Baron Of Hell
September 17th, 2013, 01:19 AM
One of my favorite episodes of the series. A throw back to old westerns in style. We see some new emotions in Rush. The cat and mouse chase is done well.

I'm still not digging Alien Chloe. I think that story line is a misstep for the series but it didn't hurt my enjoyment of this episode. The removal of the bomb was particularly good.

Krisz
September 18th, 2013, 06:33 PM
I met Simeon and lived to tell the tale! :P :D

38606

It was a nice surprise meeting Robert Knepper, needless to say he's a really nice guy! He was asking me how the scene with being trampled by the alien animals turned out in the end. He enjoyed shooting it and hadn't got round to seeing the finished product. He was fascinated by the location they went to and how those rocks were eroded for real to create such a surreal landscape.

garhkal
September 20th, 2013, 10:29 AM
I would love to see some of the SG crew show up for a Gencon.. Never get to make it to these other expos or conventions.

Cluas
September 23rd, 2013, 09:18 AM
I met Simeon and lived to tell the tale! :P :D



Thank you for sharing :)

Stargatefan99
May 14th, 2016, 07:54 AM
This thread hasn't been the focus on a conversation for ages, so I thought I might point out this is my favourite episode of the whole series. Everything was so good in this episode - from the opening moments to the closing credits Malice pulled me in. I looooove it so much. Makes me wish SGU was still on, or any Stargate series really.