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View Full Version : Why not just use holograms or even CGI and voice altering software?



Giantevilhead
October 20th, 2010, 06:19 AM
I get that they don't want to bring in too much advanced technology from SG1 and Atlantis but the whole solution with Eli and his mother was kind of stupid. The whole thing with Eli pretending to be someone else was stupid.

They could have easily had Eli record video messages for his mother while he was in someone else's body and then digitally alter the image to make it look like Eli. They could have also had Eli call his mother and digitally alter the voice to sound like Eli. That's just with today's technology. If they wanted to go a step farther, they could have projected a hologram around the person Eli's inhabiting for a face to face visit.

They could do that for every one of Destiny's crew and preserve the secret of the SG program.

AquaGamer53
October 20th, 2010, 06:41 AM
I don't think they can send any data from Destiny. The only way information seems to get from the ship to Earth is from whatever Young, Wray, etc tells them while using the stones. Also, if Eli showed up as a hologram, then I doubt that would have helped his mom. She would want him to come home right then, and what would he say then? Can't because this is a hologram? I think nothing short of him showing his mom that he is doing something important where he can't get home was the only way she was going to get better.

Descended
October 20th, 2010, 09:04 AM
The solution was effective, but it would have been just as effective to do what they did to prove it to Eli... namely beaming her up to the Odyssey. If she saw that such advanced technology exists, she would have been more likely to believe him.

Also, telling an anecdote is all well and good, but Eli didn't do the traditional "ask me anything that only Eli would know" solution to proving that you are someone else. Having her generate the question means that Eli couldn't have answered it beforehand and thus it really must be Eli.

Giantevilhead
October 20th, 2010, 09:36 AM
I don't think they can send any data from Destiny. The only way information seems to get from the ship to Earth is from whatever Young, Wray, etc tells them while using the stones. Also, if Eli showed up as a hologram, then I doubt that would have helped his mom. She would want him to come home right then, and what would he say then? Can't because this is a hologram? I think nothing short of him showing his mom that he is doing something important where he can't get home was the only way she was going to get better.

I'm not talking about people recording messages on the Destiny and then sending them to earth. Eli could have used the stones and recorded a message while in someone else's body and then the SGC can digitally alter the message to make the person Eli was in to look like him. Same thing with a live telephone call and a hologram. It would be an effective way of maintaining communication between the Destiny's crew and their families without revealing any top government secrets.

AquaGamer53
October 20th, 2010, 09:48 AM
I'm not talking about people recording messages on the Destiny and then sending them to earth. Eli could have used the stones and recorded a message while in someone else's body and then the SGC can digitally alter the message to make the person Eli was in to look like him. Same thing with a live telephone call and a hologram. It would be an effective way of maintaining communication between the Destiny's crew and their families without revealing any top government secrets.

I suppose that would work, but it seems like most people were given permission to disclose the situation with someone close to them and Eli choose not to when he first visited. So in his mom's case, I think this was the only way.

kymeric
October 20th, 2010, 10:25 AM
There were holographic mimetic devices used a couple times on sg1 that would work. Remember the Aliens that took over the SGC with their copy holograms? And then later a NID'er used one to shoot Kinsey with Oneill's face on? Im guessing they could get a good enough hologram of destinys crew based on their ID photos and security camera footage.

How to explain that the SG noob fans every time they stone to earth tho.....

morbosfist
October 20th, 2010, 10:31 AM
The mimic devices, 3D holographic projection, and everything else require the one you're trying to copy to be present. We haven't seen them actually construct an image with Chimera, only project people standing in another room, and the momic devices needed to scan the person being copied (O'Neill's was one of the original templates).

Without Eli present, they don't have anything to get a scan of him.

Giantevilhead
October 20th, 2010, 03:13 PM
They only need all that advanced tech if they were doing face to face meetings. With phone conversations and video messages, we already have the technology to digitally alter images and voices to look and sound like someone else. All they need to do is get some guys from Stan Winston/James Cameron/George Lucas's special effects companies to digitally alter video footage to make the person Eli is inhabiting looks like Eli. The voice part is even easier since they don't even need to get it exactly right, just close enough so that they can say that Eli has a cold or something.

StarShadow
October 20th, 2010, 07:02 PM
I thought TPTB were going to let Eli use the devices used by the aliens that took over the Stargate and assumed the identities of Stargate personnel to appear as himself to his mother.

garhkal
October 21st, 2010, 02:51 AM
I get that they don't want to bring in too much advanced technology from SG1 and Atlantis but the whole solution with Eli and his mother was kind of stupid. The whole thing with Eli pretending to be someone else was stupid.

They could have easily had Eli record video messages for his mother while he was in someone else's body and then digitally alter the image to make it look like Eli. They could have also had Eli call his mother and digitally alter the voice to sound like Eli. That's just with today's technology. If they wanted to go a step farther, they could have projected a hologram around the person Eli's inhabiting for a face to face visit.

They could do that for every one of Destiny's crew and preserve the secret of the SG program.

It would give them the ability to revisit some tech SG1 had (those aliens from foot hold).. but it might also back fire as the one's wearing the holos might forget they are NOT in their own bodies.


The solution was effective, but it would have been just as effective to do what they did to prove it to Eli... namely beaming her up to the Odyssey. If she saw that such advanced technology exists, she would have been more likely to believe him.

True. but i would have prefered they at least have showed us something of her being required to sign a NDA much like others have..

Descended
October 21st, 2010, 05:40 AM
It would give them the ability to revisit some tech SG1 had (those aliens from foot hold).. but it might also back fire as the one's wearing the holos might forget they are NOT in their own bodies.



True. but i would have prefered they at least have showed us something of her being required to sign a NDA much like others have..

In one way she isn't as much of a security risk as people think... as we have seen the military kill to cover up the Stargate program before (a reporter in SG1) - and if she started to make noise like she was going to talk they could always kill her and tell Eli she died of complications from her HIV. He would be sad but would have no reason not to believe them and would continue on.

aretood2
October 21st, 2010, 07:30 AM
In one way she isn't as much of a security risk as people think... as we have seen the military kill to cover up the Stargate program before (a reporter in SG1) - and if she started to make noise like she was going to talk they could always kill her and tell Eli she died of complications from her HIV. He would be sad but would have no reason not to believe them and would continue on.
That would be the Trust, not the military.

Steelbox
October 21st, 2010, 08:06 AM
Also, telling an anecdote is all well and good, but Eli didn't do the traditional "ask me anything that only Eli would know" solution to proving that you are someone else. Having her generate the question means that Eli couldn't have answered it beforehand and thus it really must be Eli.

He actually did that, he told thing that only he would have known. Her favorite scifi movie, ET, what she said when his father left.


It would give them the ability to revisit some tech SG1 had (those aliens from foot hold).. but it might also back fire as the one's wearing the holos might forget they are NOT in their own bodies.

True. but i would have prefered they at least have showed us something of her being required to sign a NDA much like others have..

That technology requires that the person beign copied be present and scanned by that cocoon like body scanner. And it's most probably that Eli's mother signed the NDA with is standard procedure with all super secret programs.

Pond Hopper
October 21st, 2010, 08:19 AM
For a while I actually thought they were going to use an Eli hologram, but then they took her to Destiny, rather than beaming her to the Daedalus which doesn't have the benefit of her being more or less face to face with Eli.

And I know people are going to start ranting about how Earth doesn't have the technology to make a decent hologram of Eli, but surely at this point we have at least figured out that technology by now; frankly that "Earth hasn't been able to study the Ancient/Asgard databases yet" is getting quite old.

I mean I can accept not having powerful weapons and super fast ships yet, but tell me we at least have holograms!?

xxxevilgrinxxx
October 21st, 2010, 08:23 AM
I have to say, given that the Stargate program is a military one, maybe it's plain old military practicality that has them not bother with all the foofarah of making the stonees look like who they are at the moment? Maybe it's enough that they stone in, say who they are, maybe give a bit of identity and that's that, they're taken as that person? If it was a purely civilian endeavor, maybe there'd be more pressure to have them look like who they were supposed to look like?

I think I just confused myself :)

garhkal
October 22nd, 2010, 04:44 AM
In one way she isn't as much of a security risk as people think... as we have seen the military kill to cover up the Stargate program before (a reporter in SG1) - and if she started to make noise like she was going to talk they could always kill her and tell Eli she died of complications from her HIV. He would be sad but would have no reason not to believe them and would continue on.

If they did do that, i would really hate to see what happens IF he found out!

Dex Luther
October 22nd, 2010, 11:06 AM
I get that they don't want to bring in too much advanced technology from SG1 and Atlantis but the whole solution with Eli and his mother was kind of stupid. The whole thing with Eli pretending to be someone else was stupid.

They could have easily had Eli record video messages for his mother while he was in someone else's body and then digitally alter the image to make it look like Eli. They could have also had Eli call his mother and digitally alter the voice to sound like Eli. That's just with today's technology. If they wanted to go a step farther, they could have projected a hologram around the person Eli's inhabiting for a face to face visit.

They could do that for every one of Destiny's crew and preserve the secret of the SG program.

It wasn't stupid at all. What would have been stupid is to waste all those resources to create holograms and cgi to fool people who are cleared to know the truth anyways. And it would be pointless to go to all that trouble for people that aren't cleared.

How stupid would it have been to waste all those resources making a hologram just to have it all undone by a mother trying to hug her son, who she hasn't seen in a long time? Many of the hologram devices that we've seen don't create solid figures. The ones that do have other draw backs like having to have the subject on earth in a pod suspended from the ceiling at the SGC.

It was just much quicker and cheaper to do it with the stones.

I think the only stupid part out of the whole episode is; the issue of Eli's special treatment creating jealousy and animosity among the crew was never addressed very much. They might have saved that for another episode though.

Carter's Boy
October 22nd, 2010, 11:57 AM
mimetic alien device can change appearance and voice, why not use those? they were at area 51, when O'Neil was framed. i mean we see the character and not the host anyway.

Dex Luther
October 22nd, 2010, 12:28 PM
mimetic alien device can change appearance and voice, why not use those? they were at area 51, when O'Neil was framed. i mean we see the character and not the host anyway.

Because they require the person be scanned to have the image and voice of the person be set. Unfortunately, Eli is a bazzilion light years away and unavailable for scanning.

The question remain though: what's the point of going to all that trouble in the first place? Eli's mom had clearance since 'Earth' last season. Why waste resources trying to figure out how to create an Eli hologram without an Eli on hand when they can save money and just use the stones?

I think she was already lucky enough to use the stones. The higher ups were probably easier to convince because it didn't cost anything (well not very much anyways).

morbosfist
October 22nd, 2010, 12:29 PM
mimetic alien device can change appearance and voice, why not use those? they were at area 51, when O'Neil was framed. i mean we see the character and not the host anyway.Mimetic devices need to be able to scan the person they're copying for a valid disguise. Can't scan a person who's not there. O'Neill's was one of the templates left behind by the aliens.

garhkal
October 23rd, 2010, 03:04 AM
I think the only stupid part out of the whole episode is; the issue of Eli's special treatment creating jealousy and animosity among the crew was never addressed very much. They might have saved that for another episode though.

That would be something interesting to see if they explore.. whether there IS any resentment that comes about cause he got his loved one to be allowed to stone to the destiny...

Dex Luther
October 26th, 2010, 01:22 AM
That would be something interesting to see if they explore.. whether there IS any resentment that comes about cause he got his loved one to be allowed to stone to the destiny...

I cant imagine why there wouldn't be. I'm sure everyone understands why it was done (it basically saved her life), but human nature would create a ship-load of jealous people none-the-less.

It's hard to tell if all those dirty looks in the mess at the end of the episode where directed at Chloe, Eli, or both.

garhkal
October 26th, 2010, 03:53 AM
I cant imagine why there wouldn't be. I'm sure everyone understands why it was done (it basically saved her life), but human nature would create a ship-load of jealous people none-the-less.
.

Agreed. I understand why many a time IRL, a married guy gets to go home early (the kids/wife needs), but still resent it as it winds up being us singles who pick up the slack, and rarely get any recognition from it. So i can very well see people's nature coming out.