PDA

View Full Version : ENOUGH ALREADY with the sappy song montages!



ahdvd
October 12th, 2010, 11:30 PM
A good piece of score music is just as, if not more effective, especially when you have an excellent composer who has created a great musical identity for the show!. The songs are jarring and do not keep the emotional tone, if anything it just takes us away from the characters.

morbosfist
October 12th, 2010, 11:48 PM
It's a stylistic choice and they obviously aren't going to get rid of it.

ahdvd
October 13th, 2010, 12:01 AM
But one that's seriously killing the show, it already has enough haters, and doesnt need any more.
Tonight's ep was excellent, the best of season 2 and better than half of the season 1 eps, tonally it was perfect from the start, right up to the point when the song started and it just made me laugh and want to switch off. The ending ruined an otherwise perfect episode IMO.

escyos
October 13th, 2010, 12:44 AM
I dont see a problem with them, would you prefer the episode to just end?

globex
October 13th, 2010, 12:49 AM
Well the TPTB, will continue with the retarded music.

None of our opinions will have an influence on the outcome.According to the writers they are being "different" and different is always better isn't it right?:rolleyes: that's their logic at least.

jamesgilfoyle
October 13th, 2010, 12:52 AM
I think they are a fantastic way to end an episode :)

Corona
October 13th, 2010, 01:28 AM
Once in a while for poignancy is fine but overdoing it causes a 'not again' response from me.

Also, if you didn't like the singer the first time, now it's twice as bad.

My opinion. Otherwise a great ep!

MattSilver 3k
October 13th, 2010, 01:33 AM
Man, I've just grown used to them. It's not even 'Oh here we go' anymore, it's 'Well, it is SGU...' I'll live with 'em.

19pack
October 13th, 2010, 02:16 AM
Hi. I'm a long time lurker and somebody who welcomed the changes in tone and direction with Stargate Universe, but I cannot tolerate these indie-musical montages any longer. They were over-used by the second half of season one. LOST knew to stop using them within their first season (even acknowledging it with Hurley's portable CD player breaking down).

I think they're good for 'ice-breaking' a new audience into identifying with the tone and despite my personal gripes I know they're still trying to gain audience with this being the start of a new season and all, but if they continue every other episode with these all season they're going to have the opposite effect. It feels forced and cheesy.

Agreed with the poster who commented that the in-show score is distinct and strong enough to carry the tone and emotion of moments in the show. One of the most musically powerful moments of SGU for me was in the pilot when they were in the desert trying to find water and there was a montage of everyone in their varying situations, and the score was EPIC.

Commander Zelix
October 13th, 2010, 02:35 AM
I don't like them very much, but they're the least of my worries.

thekillman
October 13th, 2010, 04:06 AM
i like them. i like how it shows the "aftermath" of the episode. some find it too obvious. i find it powerful. nice song with fitting scenes.

coZma
October 13th, 2010, 05:23 AM
The song from the previous episode was awesome and really captured the mood . This ones was pretty meah and, until the moment when they will use "Drops of Jupiter" on the background, I don't find them so annoying to make me complain.

dahok
October 13th, 2010, 05:52 AM
It took it away from a decent ending as well. Telford being surrounded and Destiny jumping would have been the perfect ending. Instead they went with the overly dramatic approach where everyone is moping around, Again. Everyone is doing nothing, Again. The slow musical montage should be a rarity, and should fit with the pace.

They try way too hard to make a "dark and edgy" Stargate.

ipfnd
October 13th, 2010, 05:54 AM
Well said. Whether the next season will be picked up is at the top.....
I don't like them very much, but they're the least of my worries.

Egle01
October 13th, 2010, 06:06 AM
I like the music montages. Not a big fan of this one, but the song used in "Intervention" made the ep even moar better.

sg1fan
October 13th, 2010, 06:19 AM
I'm with they are nice here and there crowd but if over used they become corny and redundant. It's like oh here comes the song. Maybe they should consider reducing them in frequency. They are also going to make this show seem very period and dated in a few years. Maybe that's good or bad but there's a reason why classical scores seem more timeless - because they are.

garhkal
October 13th, 2010, 06:31 AM
While i do agree a good montage can make an ep ending better, a poor one can kill it. Personally i would rather less song montages, and more just musical ones.

Shadow_7
October 13th, 2010, 06:47 AM
I like them. If they start doing bohemian rhapsody at the end leaving only 20 minutes for the ep, I'll begin to hate them. But the thought of an SGU version of guitar hero might be interesting. Slightly better than SGU the documentary.

VampyreWraith
October 13th, 2010, 06:55 AM
I don't really mind them, some of them are actually kinda cool, but I also think that they shouldn't be used too much because it can get a bit eye rolling when its used all the time and not everyone is going to like the type music used so they might find it extra annoying

Adrian_Jackson
October 13th, 2010, 07:00 AM
But where else am I going to discover cool new music I like? THINK OF ME!!!!

In all seriousness, I like them, but they need to do them less frequently. If I had a choice, I'd prefer more episode.

jelgate
October 13th, 2010, 07:57 AM
Don't care either way. They don't ruin an episode but little to enhance it except for Air III. That had awesome music

leiasky
October 13th, 2010, 09:16 AM
It's a stylistic choice and they obviously aren't going to get rid of it.

Which is too bad.

I'd be happy if they got rid of it. It's too 'Grey's Anatomy' in space to me with all that contemporary music.

Shadow_7
October 13th, 2010, 09:23 AM
But where else am I going to discover cool new music I like? THINK OF ME!!!!

In all seriousness, I like them, but they need to do them less frequently. If I had a choice, I'd prefer more episode.

In a gentlemens club like the rest of us. Sad but true, most of the discovery of cool music for me anyway happened over there. Something about dancers with money that helps them help me discover the hot new artists (in music). Given a club with a decent sound system, and young bucks that still have a shread of optimism despite their situation. Tori Amos, Sarah McLaughlin and many others heard there first, six plus months before they were ever pop culture. And a few others that should have been pop culture, but never made it there (in this country).

But that was long before facebook and youtube.

UniverseSizePlotHole
October 13th, 2010, 09:30 AM
I felt it took me right out of what had just happened - it would have been better to have ended with the scene with Telford being surrounded and that eerie/quirky music.

The use of music as queried by the OP in the way seems to either creates the need for private reflective moments or gives them more importance - sometimes I'd rather like the characters actually saying lines to emote - two minutes of not a word spoken adds up.

Naonak
October 13th, 2010, 10:02 AM
I have no problem with the use of contemporary music in and of itself. When done well - which I think most, perhaps all, of the SGU examples have been - it can be a useful and powerful storytelling tool. It's not exclusively in soap/teen drama territory, either - shows like The Shield do it on occasion.

My only problem with it on SGU would be that while each individual use has been done well, they've done it in a few episodes too many.

Spimman
October 13th, 2010, 10:32 AM
I really like it personally, it allows them to quickly show things happening on Destiny without making a big production about it and it sets the emotional tone of events happening.

Rylor
October 13th, 2010, 10:37 AM
Mostly, I liked the music used in the montages, especially in "Air", "Sabotage" and "Intervention". Although I admit I did not like all of them, I have nothing against them in general.

Kaiphantom
October 13th, 2010, 10:41 AM
Heh, I made a thread like this awhile back in the general SGU thread. I wanted to express my opinion and get a read on what other people thought (but apparently there were quite a few whinging about me doing so). Still, what I found was interesting. At best, it was divided roughly 50/50 on people who like and dislike them. At worst, there was a clear majority of people who didn't like them.

So, if I had to guess percentages, it would go something like this:

Like - 30%
Dislike - 40%
Mostly indifferent as long as they aren't overused - 30%

And withing that last group, most felt that the montages were overused. So there does appear to be a clear majority that would at least appreciate less montages being used. While I would like 95% of them to vanish, I would agree to a compromise of less being used, as they don't add anything, and indeed, they take things away.

It's opportunity cost. When you use a montage, you take away time you could use to have the characters explain something. I'm sure everyone here has things they would like cleared up, that COULD be cleared up if they gave a few minutes. Well, too bad. you ain't gettin' your explanations, but you can have this cheesy song and a bunch of predictable scenes!

How predictable? I'm making this prediction: there will be another music montage at the end of the next episode. It's entitled Pathogen, and seems to revolve around Chloe and her changes, so the montage will be made up of people being sad at the episode's events. Young will probably be drinking in one.

Tell me I'll be wrong.

Of course, I can't blame them, because I have a feeling they've discovered a new cash cow; getting paid to include the music. You think they'll give that up? Probably not. But I'm turning it into an opportunity cost for them. Sure, they can get paid for it... but they won't get "paid" from me watching their show (and indeed, I'm canceling my cable because SGU was about the only show left on TV I wanted to watch). I won't recommend the show to people I know anymore, and instead, will tell them to watch other shows (I'm pretty big into anime at the moment, of which there are a ton of good things to watch).

So, JM, if you do read this, congrats on your choice. Perhaps it's not really your choice, but you seem to really support the idea, and perhaps you really don't care if SGU gets renewed, or if the movies never get made after all. You're God, you have your vision, and not much we say means much, eh?

Spimman
October 13th, 2010, 10:49 AM
In most cases, whatever the subject, the people that dislike something are much more vocal and willing to participate in a complaining thread than supporters who like something but don't get going about it. Especially in forum land!

nicoautoxp
October 13th, 2010, 11:07 AM
does anybody know the title of the song in episode 3?

TheHomegaMan
October 13th, 2010, 11:08 AM
http://pic.phyrefile.com/e/ep/epp_b/2010/06/05/Oh_look__it_s_THIS_thread_again.jpg

Naonak
October 13th, 2010, 11:19 AM
^ Heh. :D


Of course, I can't blame them, because I have a feeling they've discovered a new cash cow; getting paid to include the music.
Is it not the other way around: they pay to use the music? Licensing and whatnot? Or does it depend on the age, etc. of the song?

I know that Supernatural has used less classic rock as the show's gone on because they had to cut their music budget, and there was talk about that for SGA's Vegas.

blueray
October 13th, 2010, 11:33 AM
i'm okay with them, though they are a little old when its every episode. this one didn't really annoy me that much since the episode did end in a somewhat sad tone, which the music helped show.

Replicator Todd
October 13th, 2010, 11:45 AM
I didn't mind the montages at first but now they are growing rather...well...tiresome.

Kaiphantom
October 13th, 2010, 12:26 PM
In most cases, whatever the subject, the people that dislike something are much more vocal and willing to participate in a complaining thread than supporters who like something but don't get going about it. Especially in forum land!

Which is why I had earlier proposed a poll. And got more people whinging that "such a poll wouldn't mean anything!" without even giving it a chance. I dunno; perhaps they were afraid for some reason? But you're words are contradicted when we do have several people posting here with their opinions that they like the montages, and even people posting their indifferent attitude.

If it was all complaints, then you'd have a good point, but it's not. So I'd say it's a pretty fair representation.


Is it not the other way around: they pay to use the music? Licensing and whatnot? Or does it depend on the age, etc. of the song?

It depends on song, and generally how popular it, or the band, is. You wanna use something from someone rich and well known, such as Micheal Jackson, Nirvana, Britney Spears, etc.? You'll have to pay them to include it. From a lesser-known band? Odds are, they'll pay you to include their song because it serves as advertisement. In some ways, even if the group is semi-popular, they may still pay you to include a song for advertisement purposes. Think normal products like Coke or Pepsi, and where you've seen them in your favorite movies. Odds are, the company paid the series/movie to have their product included, and paid for it as part of their marketing budget.

Basically, payment will come down to which party needs the other more. Figure that out, and you'll find out which way the money flows, although it's generally that people pay the movie/series to include things. After all, the movie/series has hundreds of thousands of things to pick from, so they don't NEED you.

And a series like SGU is supposed to generate as much money as possible, with as little cost as possible, and they already have a special effects budget to worry about. That means songs would normally be axed if they had to pay extra for them (normal soap dramas can afford to use them more, since they don't have a special effects budget, nor need to build complex new sets).

tl;dr answer: It's complex, but generally a show is paid to include something as advertisement. If you liked that song you just heard, you're likely to look up the band and sample more of their music, possibly buying.

ahdvd
October 13th, 2010, 12:28 PM
As i and others have said, at the end of this ep, it took us right out of the ep, just felt so tacked on and out of place. Add to that the fact that they mentioned a service for Riley, and all we saw was Greer clearing out his quaters, instead of that song, i would have preferred seeing the service for Riley, seeing Young giving some sort of speech, would have spoken to his character seeing him give a speech whilst not cracking (remembering Riley's end). Had this been done with some emotional undertone by Jerry Goldsmith i think it would have been far more fitting, FAR more effective, and much more of an emotional connect for the audience. Instead we're treated to a few seconds of each person separately whilst some soft-indie plays - so one the one hand we're supposed to feel something cheerful from the music, but see how each of these people are 'thinking'. About what, we have no idea, all we know is that they're thinking, because they are trying to pull off the Jack Bauer stare - Pathetic. Didnt lower my blood pressure, made it boil instead.

beafly
October 13th, 2010, 12:31 PM
/agree

Kaiphantom
October 13th, 2010, 12:33 PM
As i and others have said, at the end of this ep, it took us right out of the ep, just felt so tacked on and out of place. Add to that the fact that they mentioned a service for Riley, and all we saw was Greer clearing out his quaters, instead of that song, i would have preferred seeing the service for Riley, seeing Young giving some sort of speech, would have spoken to his character seeing him give a speech whilst not cracking (remembering Riley's end). Had this been done with some emotional undertone by Jerry Goldsmith i think it would have been far more fitting, FAR more effective, and much more of an emotional connect for the audience. Instead we're treated to a few seconds of each person separately whilst some soft-indie plays - so one the one hand we're supposed to feel something cheerful from the music, but see how each of these people are 'thinking'. About what, we have no idea, all we know is that they're thinking, because they are trying to pull off the Jack Bauer stare - Pathetic. Didnt lower my blood pressure, made it boil instead.

You know, that's exactly it, and what I was trying to get across. By including a sappy montage, you can't show something else. It would have been FAR more poignant to have Young delivering a eulogy for Riley, tying it in as to how they just lost Telford, and giving a motivational speech at the same time, ala, "Riley was a soldier and knew the risks, and yet he didn't let it get him down. We may lose more people out here until we finally find a way home, but we will get home. Riley gave his life in the line of duty so that we could continue to survive."

And then perhaps segue that into several scenes of people giving speeches about their memories of Riley. Would have been far more touching than a sappy montage. They aren't bad in and of themselves, but they really highlight the wangst this series is heading into. Sure, things are bad. But for pete's sake, showcase some ****in' hope. Nobody likes depression all the time, except for emo goths.

Nathan Reynolds
October 13th, 2010, 12:39 PM
I like them, because its set that more is happening in Destiny that we dont get to see.
Its like "their lives" dont end every time the ep ends. Good "intro" for Kino Episodes :)

Kanten
October 13th, 2010, 12:42 PM
I liked most of the montages in Season 1. I liked the ones in Intervention and Aftermath.

The one in Awakening felt kind of awkward and random though. It didn't really have a central "theme" to it like the previous ones. Intervention's centered on TJ's experience, Aftermath on the crew's reaction to losing Riley, but Awakening was all over the place.

Mr. Jack
October 13th, 2010, 12:43 PM
It sounds to me like they're trying too hard to make the show seem emotional and deep by doing this when they don't really need to. When you try to hard to do anything it can result in something becoming cheesy. Whatever though; I'll just skip the sequences if others like em.

OutandAboot
October 13th, 2010, 01:31 PM
It depends on song, and generally how popular it, or the band, is. You wanna use something from someone rich and well known, such as Micheal Jackson, Nirvana, Britney Spears, etc.? You'll have to pay them to include it. From a lesser-known band? Odds are, they'll pay you to include their song because it serves as advertisement.


I've never heard anything like that when it comes to music in tv shows.

I understand why Pepsi or a computer manufacturer pays for advertisment, but I've never heard about a record label paying for their songs to be used on a tv show.

The songs used so far reflects the situation in the episodes very well. It's one hell of a coincidence if the artists or their record labels has been pushing or paying for their songs to be used.

Janelle Monae's concert is the only time I can think of when the music haven't been tied to the events in the episodes, but the concert served more as a background atmosphere.

KEK
October 13th, 2010, 01:33 PM
It's possible that record companies are paying for the songs to be used, they certainly do on radio stations. I agree though, that they sound horribly out of place.

Sami_
October 13th, 2010, 01:47 PM
I think what makes them so out of place is how the soundtrack for the previous 40 mins of the episode is so different then suddenly the synth rifts are exchanged for a contemporary song.

Sairnath
October 13th, 2010, 01:50 PM
I've pretty much come to the point that when the music starts I hit mute. Still get the emotional responses even in silence without the annoying music. A traditional musical score can still be just as good and moving.

Kaiphantom
October 13th, 2010, 01:56 PM
I've never heard anything like that when it comes to music in tv shows.

I understand why Pepsi or a computer manufacturer pays for advertisment, but I've never heard about a record label paying for their songs to be used on a tv show.

The songs used so far reflects the situation in the episodes very well. It's one hell of a coincidence if the artists or their record labels has been pushing or paying for their songs to be used.

Janelle Monae's concert is the only time I can think of when the music haven't been tied to the events in the episodes, but the concert served more as a background atmosphere.

You're mistake is in assuming the song is from a band under a record label, or that all record labels have the same standards when it comes to their music.

Sairnath
October 13th, 2010, 02:00 PM
I've never heard anything like that when it comes to music in tv shows.

I understand why Pepsi or a computer manufacturer pays for advertisment, but I've never heard about a record label paying for their songs to be used on a tv show.

The songs used so far reflects the situation in the episodes very well. It's one hell of a coincidence if the artists or their record labels has been pushing or paying for their songs to be used.

Janelle Monae's concert is the only time I can think of when the music haven't been tied to the events in the episodes, but the concert served more as a background atmosphere.


Happens more often then you would think. Pretty much anytime you see the disclaimer "tonights music brought to you by" at the end of an episode means it was a paid advertisement placement. Every MTV/VH1 reality show whenever a song comes up has a scroll on the bottom of the screen with who it is. Also paid advertisement.

dtape
October 13th, 2010, 02:26 PM
I think that they are over using these musical montages. i wouldn't mind one every couple of episodes and normally i don't mind them that much. but this one felt kind of out of place.

themeatcleaver
October 13th, 2010, 05:14 PM
Personally I usually like the montages. This one though just needed a different song as it just didn't feel "right". I've actually added of few of the montage songs to my zune as a result of SGU because i'd never heard them elsewhere. In particular, I added Breathe and All My Days, as well as Brand New's You Won't Know. If used properly, i think they're fantastic but its just a matter of song choice and I agree, this one was out of place.

Trinary
October 13th, 2010, 05:40 PM
Why not give a Blues, Rock or Jazz for a change?

For a 2nd times, the sappy song really spoiled the mode to the great show ending.

dtape
October 13th, 2010, 05:42 PM
For a 2nd times, the sappy song really spoiled the mode to the great show ending.

When was the first?

carmencatalina
October 13th, 2010, 07:44 PM
I generally like them. I've gone on to buy some of the songs from iTunes, so apparently the musicians made a good choice being associated with SGU.

the fifth man
October 13th, 2010, 08:50 PM
For the most part, the music hasn't bothered me. While most of it isn't stuff I would listen to on my own, it isn't too bad.

Infinite-Possibilities
October 13th, 2010, 09:37 PM
I never really minded but by this episode I think hey are probably over doing it. Frankly I don't really think we need a song for every single episode. Music montages in my opinion are more effective when used sparingly.

Skygate
October 13th, 2010, 11:15 PM
Usually, I dislike the music montages because the music always seems "off" and in direct contrast with the rest of the episode. But this and the song from Air, part 3 were the only times I felt song actually fit. I also liked the Janelle Monae music. It's actually the songs in the other episodes that seemed "off" to me when compared to the rest of the episode.

Plus the full song itself is actually pretty good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8OH8Uautpk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMUiZwiBmNg


Why not give a Blues, Rock or Jazz for a change?

This song was actually pretty close to Blues.

Corona
October 14th, 2010, 12:08 AM
If I don't like the singer or the song, I can't wait for it to be over..

Think about the UPS song on Logistics in their new ads.

MUTE!!!!

I also muted every ST Enterprise intro. I really hated that song. It was so wrong!

Music moves people, but not always the way they would like.

EvilSpaceAlien
October 14th, 2010, 12:22 AM
Which is too bad.

I'd be happy if they got rid of it. It's too 'Grey's Anatomy' in space to me with all that contemporary music.

Or Scrubs in space, or Chuck in space, etc...
A lot of shows use contemporary music, and I actually like that. I mean, I've been introduced to a lot of great artists which I probably would've missed out on, thanks to shows like SGU, Scrubs & Chuck.

timmciglobal
October 14th, 2010, 01:00 AM
The music is annoying and very poorly placed. This "Ok song and montage" is a poor attempt to close an episode and most good drama either ends with a reset or a shock not some crappy song.

Tim

RamblerReb
October 14th, 2010, 01:42 AM
Honestly? If they're going to use a music montage at the end of every show, it should always be "Who Wants to Live Forever," by Queen. Every time. But different bits of the song, depending on the mood.

Otherwise, music montages suck. They're an excuse to get out of writing good dialogue.

Buck32
October 14th, 2010, 03:52 AM
Once in a while for poignancy is fine but overdoing it causes a 'not again' response from me.

Also, if you didn't like the singer the first time, now it's twice as bad.

My opinion. Otherwise a great ep!

I agree i think once in a while it's ok, but not every episode, it get's old fast!!!!

hisg1fans
October 14th, 2010, 04:41 AM
Honestly? If they're going to use a music montage at the end of every show, it should always be "Who Wants to Live Forever," by Queen. Every time. But different bits of the song, depending on the mood.

Otherwise, music montages suck. They're an excuse to get out of writing good dialogue.

I agree:)

ahdvd
October 14th, 2010, 08:35 AM
It really dumbfounds me aswell, since Joel Goldsmith has proven not onl with SGU but with all his other work that he can emotionally undertone the hell out of any scene, and he has established great themes for SGU already, so it's beyond me why they are wasting his talent.
Also, as mentioned already, songs cost for licensing, how much exactly i don't know, but i can'timagine it's pennies, especially if they are planning to have it on a DVD release aswell as that gets counted, so it won't be cheap. Think how much each time they have spent on a song, when they could have had JG compose a (more) effective piece of music, and save the money/have the money for something else that will be of better use. If they had more money spare to budget with, would we have had 'Life' in season 1? It was IMO a bottle episode shot on a minimal budget and was obviously 'filler'.

Kaiphantom
October 14th, 2010, 01:29 PM
I'm gonna repost something that someone else said in other forum, to kind of a different topic. But I believe it can apply here:

"Or perhaps the genius that was Joss Whedon. Firefly was pure art. The actors cast were perfect for their roles (and I say this while not caring much for Summer Glau). You don't create a long running show like Buffy without something going for you -- and then a spinoff like Angel that lasted a few years to boot. Then, with a gigantic "thud", Dollhouse. For whatever reasons that everyone had, Dollhouse had loyal viewers, but I'd never have considered them fans.

Fans will zealously overlook imperfections in order to better enjoy and advocate for the object of their affections. And then, when they're shunned, they have a habit of either just walking away or even turning on the remaining fans. You shouldn't be surprised that Warhammer (a franchise with 20 years of fans) had some people who were less than receptive to legitimate criticism. Nor should you be surprised when the fans who now feel scorned by their idols acknowledge the problems were there all along."

That's pretty much it. When you shun your fans, they can have a very negative effect on the health of your show. Not only do they stop supporting, but they cause a chain reaction of stopping other people from watching. But I have yet to really see TPTB behind a show ever learn from this until it is too late. And some may never care and will do whatever they want, convinced their vision is better. George Lucas, Joss Whedon... both made good things that attracted a lot of fans. Both then ended up taking a huge dump on their fanbase.

SGU could very well be the Voyager or Enterprise of it's series. The one that just makes too many of the core fanbase go, "ehh, I think it's done, Jim" and he series gets canceled before it's done.

If they fail to listen to the fanbase on issues like this one, they could very well end up in the same boat, known as has-beens who got lucky with something, thought they were God, and end up a laughingstock because of it.

Egle01
October 14th, 2010, 02:10 PM
If they fail to listen to the fanbase on issues like this one, they could very well end up in the same boat, known as has-beens who got lucky with something, thought they were God, and end up a laughingstock because of it.Fanbase has gazillion different opinions on different subjects. Some like music montages, some don't. Some want more explosions, others more characters. Who should they listen to and why?

leiasky
October 14th, 2010, 02:27 PM
Happens more often then you would think. Pretty much anytime you see the disclaimer "tonights music brought to you by" at the end of an episode means it was a paid advertisement placement. Every MTV/VH1 reality show whenever a song comes up has a scroll on the bottom of the screen with who it is. Also paid advertisement.

That disclaimer hasn't been on an episode of SGU, has it? I don't believe so.

They are paying the artist/record label to use the music they (the production) selects for the episode.

Kaiphantom
October 14th, 2010, 04:47 PM
Fanbase has gazillion different opinions on different subjects. Some like music montages, some don't. Some want more explosions, others more characters. Who should they listen to and why?

I find this obfuscation used by those who just want to confuse the issue, thus avoiding the uncomfortable fact when a clear majority IS arising out of the fanbase, as this thread is indicating. Regardless, there are ways. If people care enough to write about the things that concern them, that there is reason to believe it can be an issue. When forums contain a message repeated by many, then there is reason to believe it can be an issue. Polls could therefore be employed to further discover the truth, too.

In short, there are ways.

Lainier
October 14th, 2010, 05:18 PM
I hate music montages. They are a waste of time, even if the music is good. Give me more plot and dialogues!

nx01a
October 14th, 2010, 05:20 PM
The sappy montages usually suck. The more action-oriented ones are great.

dahok
October 14th, 2010, 06:13 PM
Fanbase has gazillion different opinions on different subjects. Some like music montages, some don't. Some want more explosions, others more characters. Who should they listen to and why?

On a fan board? I'll probably run into more than a couple viewers who will watch SGU even if the entire 43 minute episode was a musical montage where no one does anything but sit/lay down and look emo.

;)

Mitchell82
October 14th, 2010, 06:24 PM
I quite like them. Obviously they aren't everyone's cup of tea but IMO they generally add a nice conclusion to the episode.

Snookie16
October 14th, 2010, 06:26 PM
Hear hear...they should go! :D

RamblerReb
October 14th, 2010, 08:40 PM
I agree:)

With which part? Queen or the sucking sound accompanying musical montages?

Egle01
October 15th, 2010, 02:08 AM
I find this obfuscation used by those who just want to confuse the issue, thus avoiding the uncomfortable fact when a clear majority IS arising out of the fanbase, as this thread is indicating. Well, I say that the majority who does like music montages aren't posting at GW and have left because of the negativity here. Prove me wrong.

I won't believe for one second that one thread, where say 15 dislike and 6 (didn't count, random numbers) do like what happened dictates what PTB should do. Besides, the number of fans is so small in comparison to general viewers tuning in. They'll never bother to answer in poll, write their opinions.


On a fan board? I'll probably run into more than a couple viewers who will watch SGU even if the entire 43 minute episode was a musical montage where no one does anything but sit/lay down and look emo.Really? I have yet to met one.

Phenom
October 15th, 2010, 02:29 AM
Every single time the montages come on, I sing to myself the Team America: World Police song, "We're going to have a montage....montage!"

Funnily, I actually think me humming that song makes the montages more interesting. Apart from that, I see them as simply a way for the writers to get out of writing 90 odd seconds of an episode.

Or maybe we need fun montages, rather than sleepy dreary music where we see the characters laying down or day dreaming, we have a bit of Benny Hill music and we see all the times the characters trip over stuff that is left lying in the hallways. Christ it sounds silly but hands up who wants to see that in the next ep rather than the next drivelling montage they will likely spew out at us!

mi_guard
October 15th, 2010, 03:12 AM
I quite like them. Obviously they aren't everyone's cup of tea but IMO they generally add a nice conclusion to the episode.

I agree with you :)

garhkal
October 15th, 2010, 04:06 AM
As a suggestion.. lets come up with ideas for what we would LIKE to hear for the montages based on the episode title...

ahdvd
October 15th, 2010, 08:18 AM
As a suggestion.. lets come up with ideas for what we would LIKE to hear for the montages based on the episode title...

I actually think that's a great idea, though don't get me wrong about ALL of the montages, some of them are exactly what was needed for the episode, but for most of them it's the choice of contemporary music used that just takes me away from it, and seems that it does for lots of others too.

I've decided to go back and find ALL the music montages, and come up with a suggestion for each one of what they should have done instead, even the ones that are poor i'm sure would be more fitting than what they actually did.

Like i said, for this week's episode, the episode was perfect until the montage, in this case for the episode i would have had a complete scene of Riley's service, with Young's and other's speeches, then ended the episode with Young afterwards almost at breaking point in private as we saw him in the montage.

xxxevilgrinxxx
October 15th, 2010, 08:54 AM
Fanbase has gazillion different opinions on different subjects. Some like music montages, some don't. Some want more explosions, others more characters. Who should they listen to and why?

I like the music montages and would change the title of this thread to "Enough already with the complaining about the montages!" but that's me :)

Now, as to who TPTB should listen to in these matters, it's painfully apparent that they should of course be listening to me. And given that I like everything they've done, they ARE listening to me. And so I am a happy girl :)

*yes, I was being silly - but they should still listen only to me :D*

Egle01
October 15th, 2010, 08:57 AM
I like the music montages and would change the title of this thread to "Enough already with the complaining about the montages!" but that's me :)Maybe next time, eh? :D I can almost guarantee there'll be more complaining threads. :D


Now, as to who TPTB should listen to in these matters, it's painfully apparent that they should of course be listening to me. And given that I like everything they've done, they ARE listening to me. And so I am a happy girl :)Now, when to think of it, then yes. They're listening to you, and me too. Awesome. Yes, PTB should listen to fans. :D

Kaiphantom
October 15th, 2010, 09:10 AM
I like the music montages and would change the title of this thread to "Enough already with the complaining about the montages!" but that's me :)

Heh, it's amazing how much this pops up in every fandom I've been a part of. There are always people who go "Stop talking! Your opinion isn't valid nor welcome! Mostly because it's negative and you can't have a negative opinion cuz the series is perfect and it somehow hurts me when someone points out valid criticism!"

A lot of people are taking the time and effort to post their opinions, and everyone's opinion is valid here. I don't see anything wrong with it.

But yes, perhaps TPTB should listen to the minority of fans. That's a great way to keep a show going and... hey, where did the majority of the fanbase go? Now the show will be canceled!

RamblerReb
October 15th, 2010, 09:29 AM
Ok, as an alternative to "Who Wants to Live Forever," they can use "Freakin' at the Freaker's Ball," by Dr. Hook and the Medicine Show. But ONLY ONE OF THOSE TWO SONGS!

I have spoken.

xxxevilgrinxxx
October 15th, 2010, 10:57 AM
Heh, it's amazing how much this pops up in every fandom I've been a part of. There are always people who go "Stop talking! Your opinion isn't valid nor welcome! Mostly because it's negative and you can't have a negative opinion cuz the series is perfect and it somehow hurts me when someone points out valid criticism!"

A lot of people are taking the time and effort to post their opinions, and everyone's opinion is valid here. I don't see anything wrong with it.

But yes, perhaps TPTB should listen to the minority of fans. That's a great way to keep a show going and... hey, where did the majority of the fanbase go? Now the show will be canceled!
humor is apparently lost on you and it bears some stating that I've never said any of those things. Insufferable complaining will, at most (at least from me) get you ignored, not silenced and no one seems to have been able to silence you yet, so I'd say you're not damaged in any way by it :)


Ok, as an alternative to "Who Wants to Live Forever," they can use "Freakin' at the Freaker's Ball," by Dr. Hook and the Medicine Show. But ONLY ONE OF THOSE TWO SONGS!

I have spoken. :lol:

Kaiphantom
October 15th, 2010, 12:31 PM
humor is apparently lost on you and it bears some stating that I've never said any of those things. Insufferable complaining will, at most (at least from me) get you ignored, not silenced and no one seems to have been able to silence you yet, so I'd say you're not damaged in any way by it :)

And apparently you, too. =)

Corona
October 15th, 2010, 12:55 PM
From an artistic point of view I find the basic silent fade to black to be especially effective when there will be a continuation of that story line.

A song could fit in at a funeral or a death felt by many which is an ending which can emotionally play out and be done.

ArchaeoNerd
October 15th, 2010, 01:19 PM
For me, it depends upon the song. Being the old fogey that I am, I don't know any of the songs I've heard so far in the montages on SGU. I liked the Mumford one (so much that I went to YouTube to hear the original), but the others were not as memorable. I would say that I like montages per se, but that it is a device which can be overused.

ArchaeoNerd

leiasky
October 15th, 2010, 02:57 PM
From an artistic point of view I find the basic silent fade to black to be especially effective when there will be a continuation of that story line.

A song could fit in at a funeral or a death felt by many which is an ending which can emotionally play out and be done.

I agree.

When the inclusion of songs is overdone, they lose the emotional affect they're intended to elicit in the first place. Well - it does for me anyway.

RamblerReb
October 15th, 2010, 05:20 PM
Very well. There still seems to be some contention on this issue amongst the fans. So, in addition to "Who Wants to Live Forever" and "Freakin' at the Freaker's Ball," they can use "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" by Gordon Lightfoot. BUT ONLY IF THE STORY ABSOLUTELY CALLS FOR IT!!!

I, for the last time, have spoken.

The Mighty 6 platoon
October 15th, 2010, 06:02 PM
Well I like em. They're part of the style of the show, though this recent one was a bit weak.

globex
October 15th, 2010, 06:28 PM
I agree.

When the inclusion of songs is overdone, they lose the emotional affect they're intended to elicit in the first place. Well - it does for me anyway.

Not only that, it's out of place. Does it always have to end in that? Why can't it end with classic Joel Godlsmith? Throughout Awakening, the score was brilliant until that indie crap came along.

P-90_177
October 15th, 2010, 06:54 PM
I agree.

When the inclusion of songs is overdone, they lose the emotional affect they're intended to elicit in the first place. Well - it does for me anyway.

I'd disagree on my part.

Perhaps it's because I literally live my life by music. I always have my MP3 player on me and I will always listen to music that fits my mood and situation. I literally can't listen to a happy song when I'm sad. I'm just that sort of person. So to me, while I wouldn't listen to some of the music from the montages regularly I do enjoy them.

I also appreciate them from a writers perspective as well. You see as an aspiring writer I am very aware of how shows are actually writen in terms of plot and dialogue as these are things that can be replicated on the page in the form of say a novel format (if someone wanted to take the time) so I enjoy looking at minute details of the characters, their expressions and speculating on what they might be truly thinking about at any given moment.

You might be asking what the hell this has to do with a music montage therefore...........well I'll tell you.........

It's because a music montage can not be easily translated to the written word. In an intimate moment between two characters you can narrow down the description to the minute details, and within the story you can even include plenty of other characters and feature their own feelings, but it isn't nearly as memorable. It's the same if you did it over several scenes in a show.

Using a montage allows TPTB to sumarise each of the characters feelings in one go. Many of which are characters we might not neccesarily see much of. Sure alot of these montages come off looking the same as everyone just sort of goes about their daily lives seemingly brooding about how much they hate it on Destiny, but to me it is still more than that, and I find I can pick up on a alot of little details and analyze plenty of little looks and nudges within all the characters in just a minute or two of footage.....not to mention listen to some very moving music (usually) while I'm at it.

Ouroboros
October 15th, 2010, 08:22 PM
This is probably the only thing I don't like about the way the show is going right now.

I guess that means the how is going pretty well but damn are these ****ty montages ever persistent and annoying.

Granted a booming orchestral score is going to be just as inappropriate as this cheesy soft rock nonsense, but a nice understated one that really drives home the isolation and cold vastness of the universe out there would do nothing but enhance the atmosphere.

Leave the cheesy soft rock back on the lamer parts of Earth where it belongs, we don't need to be provoking any more intergalactic wars.

Phenom
October 16th, 2010, 12:20 AM
Heh, it's amazing how much this pops up in every fandom I've been a part of. There are always people who go "Stop talking! Your opinion isn't valid nor welcome! Mostly because it's negative and you can't have a negative opinion cuz the series is perfect and it somehow hurts me when someone points out valid criticism!"

A lot of people are taking the time and effort to post their opinions, and everyone's opinion is valid here. I don't see anything wrong with it.

But yes, perhaps TPTB should listen to the minority of fans. That's a great way to keep a show going and... hey, where did the majority of the fanbase go? Now the show will be canceled!

I get your point, however I think where Evilgrin is coming from is that this argument pops up pretty much after every ep of SGU.

RamblerReb
October 16th, 2010, 06:40 AM
It occurs to me that perhaps "Freakin' at the Freaker's Ball" may not convey the sense of poignancy that TPTB might wish, so another Dr. Hook song may be substituted in certain circumstances for emotional effect, namely, "You Make My Pants Want to Get Up and Dance."

This song will be especially heart-wrenching if Rush and Young are sharing a scene.

I, for absolutely the last time, have spoken.

Coronach
October 16th, 2010, 08:18 AM
More musical montages, please! :D

Shadow_7
October 16th, 2010, 08:36 AM
Since there is that military aspect of SGU (as there was with SG1 and SGA). When I went through basic, to be in the Army Band, one of the peeves about that experience was the LACK of music. The only time you heard any was in chow, where you're basically rushed through in ten minutes. And at church, if you went to church. So from the typical american lifestyle of two hours of radio in your car while going to/from work/school. Maybe three more more hours of TV PER DAY. To maybe thirty minutes total of soft background musak per DAY and NO TV. I guess what I'm saying is I like the montage. Even if the choice is off. It helps keep it different from most other things out there. From one POV the montage gives us more music in an hour than some of the so called MUSIC channels.

Pizerer
October 16th, 2010, 08:37 AM
Personally, I think they really add something great at the end of an episode; assuming they pick the right song and it's edited properly. I thought the ending for 'Intervention' was fantastic. It really caught the mood perfectly for me.

Although, I do think the most recent montage (Awakening) was quite weak. It felt out of place and random to me. I think Joel's score would have worked much better, to be honest.

xxxevilgrinxxx
October 16th, 2010, 08:54 AM
Very well. There still seems to be some contention on this issue amongst the fans. So, in addition to "Who Wants to Live Forever" and "Freakin' at the Freaker's Ball," they can use "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" by Gordon Lightfoot. BUT ONLY IF THE STORY ABSOLUTELY CALLS FOR IT!!!

I, for the last time, have spoken.
Moar green!
I'd also suggest the last bit of Prism's Armageddon, but only when the storyline calls for it :)




Using a montage allows TPTB to sumarise each of the characters feelings in one go. Many of which are characters we might not neccesarily see much of. Sure alot of these montages come off looking the same as everyone just sort of goes about their daily lives seemingly brooding about how much they hate it on Destiny, but to me it is still more than that, and I find I can pick up on a alot of little details and analyze plenty of little looks and nudges within all the characters in just a minute or two of footage.....not to mention listen to some very moving music (usually) while I'm at it.
yep, it's show, don't tell

putting all of this stuff together gives a glimpse of life on the Destiny, all the little crap that would be mind-numbing to talk about or that only becomes meaningful when all the pieces add up

having a bit of dialogue every time chloe looks at her leg non-wound or having dialogue every time Young takes a drink or Brody talking about wow, that's another bottle would get old pretty fast and cut into time for meaningful dialogue, so bring on the montages


More musical montages, please! :D
a musical episode
that is all

magictrick
October 16th, 2010, 08:56 AM
Its nice to feature them once in a while, but having them every episode really diminishes their effect over time. I would much rather have some dialogue between characters.

Pizerer
October 16th, 2010, 09:44 AM
Its nice to feature them once in a while, but having them every episode really diminishes their effect over time. I would much rather have some dialogue between characters.

+1

SSJPabs
October 16th, 2010, 10:31 AM
Its nice to feature them once in a while, but having them every episode really diminishes their effect over time. I would much rather have some dialogue between characters.+1

Plus if they don't buy songs it saves them a little money to use on more interesting things. :)

RamblerReb
October 17th, 2010, 03:00 AM
In response to underwhelming feedback, I am obliged to conclude that, on certain rare, very specific occasions, such as the deaths of secondary characters for no special reason except to expose chinks (I know, I know, we can't say "chinks" anymore) in plot armor, another, especially emotive song must be used for the reflective "there but for the grace for God and the writers' whims go I" obligatory montage. The approved song for this endeavor shall be "Old Dogs and Children and Watermelon Wine," by Tom T. Hall. NO OTHER SONG IS CLEARED FOR THIS PURPOSE!!!

I, for the absolutely 100% last time, have spoken.

xxxevilgrinxxx
October 17th, 2010, 10:15 AM
In response to underwhelming feedback, I am obliged to conclude that, on certain rare, very specific occasions, such as the deaths of secondary characters for no special reason except to expose chinks (I know, I know, we can't say "chinks" anymore) in plot armor, another, especially emotive song must be used for the reflective "there but for the grace for God and the writers' whims go I" obligatory montage. The approved song for this endeavor shall be "Old Dogs and Children and Watermelon Wine," by Tom T. Hall. NO OTHER SONG IS CLEARED FOR THIS PURPOSE!!!

I, for the absolutely 100% last time, have spoken.

:lol:

Krystal
October 17th, 2010, 10:22 AM
Yeah, definitely the song montages at the end is getting very old. I think it takes a lot from the episode. Specially after seeing a great episode like Awakening, the song kill the mood at the end. I think a bit of music not an entire montage will be more effective and hopefully not in all the episodes. A good mystery at the end, some kind of shock will have a great effect in the end and left people wanting to see the other episode.;)

Corona
October 17th, 2010, 11:38 PM
Agree or disagree?

Those who want the montages or more often will watch if there are fewer.

Those who feel strong negatives toward the optional music may not tune in again.


The safer choice seems to be less, not more.

Kaiphantom
October 18th, 2010, 10:35 AM
Agree or disagree?

Those who want the montages or more often will watch if there are fewer.

Those who feel strong negatives toward the optional music may not tune in again.


The safer choice seems to be less, not more.

Heh, agree. Was a point I tried to make awhile ago. ;p

zmo
October 18th, 2010, 02:36 PM
I agree also. Kill the slow, dreary montage songs.