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droid327
October 8th, 2010, 02:00 PM
Here's the thing - why did Young suffocate him? Of all the ways he could have done it, that seems like the most drawn-out and tortuous.

Suffocation takes at least 30 seconds until unconsciousness. That's going to be unpleasant both for Riley, who's lying there knowing what's going on, and for Young, who has to sit there and look him in the eye the whole time its going on. And, asphyxiation causes a painful buildup of CO2 gas in the bloodstream, as well as triggering intense feelings of panic.

Plus, unless we're to believe Young stayed there holding him for the 4-7 minutes until the brain actually dies of anoxia, there's always the possibility that Riley woke back up after Young left him, and he'll now just slowly die alone of thirst or infection...

Why not just reach down and snap his neck? Grab a piece of debris and wham him upside the temple. Slit his throat with your service knife, he'll bleed out faster than he'll choke out. Or, hell, you have a SIDEARM. Plug him once between the eyes and its done.

Poor Riley :(

Ashizuri
October 8th, 2010, 02:03 PM
RILEY: I'd ask for your gun but I don't want them to blame you.

That's why.

thekillman
October 8th, 2010, 02:03 PM
i'd have pressed besides his throat, under his jaw. baroreceptors would panic, drop his blood pressure within seconds, making him pass out. then do whatever you want. i think slitting his throat is the easiest.


still, i think it had to be done covertly. a shot would've been heard. TJ would've recognised any physical damage

carmencatalina
October 8th, 2010, 02:22 PM
Just responding to the thread title, I would say that the main problem with Riley's situation is that he is, well, dead.

RIP Riley. You sort of rocked.

xxxevilgrinxxx
October 8th, 2010, 02:52 PM
I'd say because Riley wanted it that way :(

RIP, Riley :(

P-90_177
October 8th, 2010, 02:56 PM
I'd say because Riley wanted it that way :(

RIP, Riley :(

You just so made me want to make a Riley music video to Frank Sinatra. :P

jelgate
October 8th, 2010, 03:36 PM
You just so made me want to make a Riley music video to Frank Sinatra. :P

Do it. It shall be epic

Descended
October 8th, 2010, 03:40 PM
What the OP is saying though is that it is harder to suffocate someone then you think, they can become apneac and unconscious only to start breathing and wake up later. Many many killers have suffocated victims only to have them survive it. Truthfully, medically, Young only suffocated Riley for long enough to render him unconscious, he wouldn't have been dead that quickly. Even without hyperventilating beforehand most people can hold their breath that long and there is a good possibility that Riley would regain consciousness later.

Even if he did manage to kill him, if TJ examined him she would suspect something, suffocation deaths often leave petechial hemorrhages in the eyes and face even without constriction of the major vessels in the neck.

I have said it before in another thread, and yes I am aware of what Riley said about the gun and the crew blaming Young, but suffocation is a horrible way to die. There is a reason it is used as torture in waterboarding... even if you know that they aren't going to kill you (you would be worthless dead) the panic is sooo overwhelming that is erases all rational thought.

I lost a lot of respect for Young after that, it would have been better to compress his carotid arteries to restrict bloodflow to his brain (a technique all military and police are taught as a submission or killing blow (i.e. a sleeper hold)) - it wouldn't induce panic and loss of consciousness and death would be immediate.

thefunkyone
October 8th, 2010, 04:52 PM
Simple solution to this thread, its a t.v show........ its not real... in the SGU universe the way young killed Riley worked quickly and painlessly and had a dramatic element to it....

Also i doubt a t.v show is accurately going to show the mass public how to kill someone in-case someone copy's it in real life. That would be a lawsuit waiting to happen....

blueray
October 8th, 2010, 05:14 PM
i was wondering that too. to me it seemed to make sense for young to shoot him (he had his gun) and assuming he doesn't miss like sawyer did, that it will work good.

The Mighty 6 platoon
October 8th, 2010, 05:30 PM
i was wondering that too. to me it seemed to make sense for young to shoot him (he had his gun) and assuming he doesn't miss like sawyer did, that it will work good.


RILEY: I'd ask for your gun but I don't want them to blame you.
There, for the umpteenth time.

Pharaoh Atem
October 8th, 2010, 05:39 PM
suffocating him was the best way for the situation and the series. the silence during the suffocation was so powerful and edged young closer to a break down.

Shadow_7
October 8th, 2010, 06:20 PM
If you watch that segment you can see that Young was holding his breath to ensure he was holding it long enough. He could have just lifted the console and let him bleed out, but he was already in pain. Even with a bullet, outside of a head wound, it doesn't kill instantly. It just gives you another injury. Which MIGHT hasten your demise. Unlike TV, you don't just fall down already dead upon contact. You have to bleed out, or stop the heart, collapse the lung and other more painful ways to die. Outside of that brain thing, there is not instant death. And even with the brain, you have to hit that part that matters. Or you could live on as a vegetable with the proper life support, until the body dies of semi-natural causes.

The old quote --- LIFE - natures way of keeping meat fresh.

wingsabre
October 8th, 2010, 06:57 PM
Even if he did manage to kill him, if TJ examined him she would suspect something, suffocation deaths often leave petechial hemorrhages in the eyes and face even without constriction of the major vessels in the neck.

You speak as if TJ is some world class doctor. Don't forget that she's a medic. I'm sure she doesn't have the training or depth of knowledge necessary to perform a complete examination, and I'm sure that even if she was capable of doing so, that she wouldn't have the time on the planet to do it. They all had to go back on Destiny. Digging Riley out and burying him somewhere will essentially take more time, and I'd figure that they'd focus on that more so than trying to find cause of death.

BTW, if TJ was smart enough, she'd either save Riley by applying a tourniquet to stop the bleeding or to amputate. All they needed to do was to apply a tourniquet to stop the bleeding while they pulled him out. Make a tourniquet out of fabric or something in the shuttle. There's got to be wires or something around. Then cut of the legs if necessary.

But, it's clear that they killed Riley off to make room for more characters on the ship like Ginn.

smart
October 8th, 2010, 09:04 PM
This was done as per Riley's wishes. Riley understood that if Young killed him with a gun, the sound of the shot would show the others that Young was responsible. Riley indicated that he did not want the others to blame him[ Young ]and thus Young chose the alternate option of suffocation.

themeatcleaver
October 8th, 2010, 09:13 PM
He's as dead as Firefly people! Get over it already!

/for the record i'm with the "RILEY: I'd ask for your gun but I don't want them to blame you" crowd. Young did the right thing. Whether or not it was long enough is besides the point, its tv for cryin' out loud.

SciFiRick
October 8th, 2010, 11:17 PM
He's as dead as Firefly people! Get over it already!

/for the record i'm with the "RILEY: I'd ask for your gun but I don't want them to blame you" crowd. Young did the right thing. Whether or not it was long enough is besides the point, its tv for cryin' out loud.

Here, Here. It is Science Fiction with focus on the word fiction and I am personally OK with things not being exactly as it would occur in real life. But hey, it is OK for those who want it to be exact. For this reason those who are ok with it being close to realism vs those who want accuracy will always try to convince each other who is right or wrong. I would assume that the writers were trying to tug on our emotions more than trying to be totally accurate.

Shadow_7
October 9th, 2010, 12:00 AM
Part of it was muffled. i.e. I'm not sure if it was You or Me or TJ or ???

Well it's not all you need to do. You can die from shock, infection, lack of wanting to live, and other factors. More likely without a proper doctor and/or proper facilities. Rewatched it a 3rd time and they just discovered the gate at 7 hours (when Destinly went into FTL). And then had it mostly cleared some < 3 hours later when Destiny came out of FTL. At which point if it wasn't for the console, Riley would have already bled out.

morbosfist
October 9th, 2010, 01:51 AM
Part of what was muffled? Riley is very clear on what he wanted.

escyos
October 9th, 2010, 02:01 AM
He's coming back you know.

knowles2
October 9th, 2010, 02:36 AM
He's coming back you know.

When. An somehow I doubt it will be outside of Young head.

Nathan Reynolds
October 9th, 2010, 03:39 AM
Well i imagine that the simple way to put Ripley out of his misery would be to snap his neck, fast simple and painless but it wouldnt be a dramatic scene. would like 2sec scene no emotional charge by sufocating him makes for a more powerfull scene.

Shadow_7
October 9th, 2010, 10:17 AM
Part of what was muffled? Riley is very clear on what he wanted.

I don't want them to blame MmMMmmmmMmmm. Or at least that's how it sounded on syfy rewind.

morbosfist
October 9th, 2010, 10:17 AM
He clearly says "you".

The Mighty 6 platoon
October 9th, 2010, 10:20 AM
Well i imagine that the simple way to put Ripley out of his misery would be to snap his neck, fast simple and painless but it wouldnt be a dramatic scene. would like 2sec scene no emotional charge by sufocating him makes for a more powerfull scene.

Breaking someone's neck is not quick or painless. I mean yes it's faster than suffocation, but it requires a lot of force, and quick clean breaks are the stuff of tv not wanting to be too graphic.

zbgb
October 9th, 2010, 06:43 PM
What the OP is saying though is that it is harder to suffocate someone then you think, they can become apneac and unconscious only to start breathing and wake up later. Many many killers have suffocated victims only to have them survive it. Truthfully, medically, Young only suffocated Riley for long enough to render him unconscious, he wouldn't have been dead that quickly. Even without hyperventilating beforehand most people can hold their breath that long and there is a good possibility that Riley would regain consciousness later.

Even if he did manage to kill him, if TJ examined him she would suspect something, suffocation deaths often leave petechial hemorrhages in the eyes and face even without constriction of the major vessels in the neck.

I have said it before in another thread, and yes I am aware of what Riley said about the gun and the crew blaming Young, but suffocation is a horrible way to die. There is a reason it is used as torture in waterboarding... even if you know that they aren't going to kill you (you would be worthless dead) the panic is sooo overwhelming that is erases all rational thought.

I lost a lot of respect for Young after that, it would have been better to compress his carotid arteries to restrict bloodflow to his brain (a technique all military and police are taught as a submission or killing blow (i.e. a sleeper hold)) - it wouldn't induce panic and loss of consciousness and death would be immediate.

It drives me nuts when people post in public forums using technical terms (ie petechial) that they KNOW most people will not understand in order to sound impressive.

smart
October 9th, 2010, 07:33 PM
Although Young could have slitt his neck, TJ , would have seen the attack to the neck as such a cut would be clearly visible. Therefore if Young had merely slit the the throat it would have been even more likely that he would be discovered for his actions than suffocation. This explain's Young 's reasoning.

tinerin
October 9th, 2010, 07:35 PM
Even if he did manage to kill him, if TJ examined him she would suspect something, suffocation deaths often leave petechial hemorrhages in the eyes and face even without constriction of the major vessels in the neck.

Have you seen actual petechial hemorrhages? Unlike what you see in tv shows and movies, they're usually not very apparent unless you're looking really hard for them and they probably would have been impossible to see under the lighting conditions in the shuttle. Also, why would TJ bother examining someone that she knew for several hours was about to die especially with limited time until Destiny jumps again?

Descended
October 9th, 2010, 07:44 PM
Have you seen actual petechial hemorrhages? Unlike what you see in tv shows and movies, they're usually not very apparent unless you're looking really hard for them and they probably would have been impossible to see under the lighting conditions in the shuttle. Also, why would TJ bother examining someone that she knew for several hours was about to die especially with limited time until Destiny jumps again?

Yes, I have actually seen them, but you are right that they would be difficult to see without a fluorescent overhead exam light. I still think carotid pressure would have been more humane and is readily taught to military personnel as a hand-to-hand tactic. All I could think of during that scene was Tony Soprano and Christopher... kinda killed some of the emotional punch for me.

Krisz
October 9th, 2010, 07:47 PM
Done for dramatic effect, pure and simple, and it worked!

It looked to me that Young crushed Riley's 'Adam's apple' as an added thing as he suffocated him. I guess that would close his throat for sure! That would stop him ever regaining consciousness than just strangling him I guess, and certainly made for a heart wrenching scene. It did what it set out to do, produce disbelief and shock in the viewer. Also added another entry in Young's catalogue of distasteful things he had to do that pushes him closer to a breakdown.

It was a well acted and really sad scene! I still can't stop thinking about it, watching the poor man's eyes go from pleading to fear and then nothing; he was gone. One of the most poignant death scenes I've seen in ages on screen due to the great work done setting up the character development beforehand, and isn't that what good drama is about at the end of the day?!

Gollumpus
October 9th, 2010, 08:31 PM
Done for dramatic effect, pure and simple, and it worked!

Yup. The method was a counterpoint to the scene earlier where Young was violently strangling the LA soldier. It was abbreviated in length because we don't need several minutes of a strangulation scene.

Everyone around that shuttle *knew* what had happened inside, that Riley had just not expired on his own. TJ knew it. Greer knew it. Scott knew it. The others would strongly suspect. Young asked TJ to leave them alone because he *knew* that Riley wasn't going to make it, and that nobody would want to leave him there to die all alone, and that he knew what had to be done.

It was also another example of Young taking responsibility for a horrible act for the good of the crew. Young knew the only way that it would end would be that Riley would be dead when Young left the shuttle. Riley, being the sharp soldier and good person that he was, gave Young a way out and asked to be killed. This allows the crew to lie to themselves, that poor Riley died on the planet from his injuries.

regards,
G.

Avenger
October 10th, 2010, 01:07 AM
Riley didn't want the others to know what Young did. Suffocating Riley was the most practical way to kill him without leaving any obvious visual evidence of what happened.

ciannwn
October 10th, 2010, 07:47 AM
It drives me nuts when people post in public forums using technical terms (ie petechial) that they KNOW most people will not understand in order to sound impressive.

I had no idea what a petechial hemorrhage is until I looked it up via google. I've now learned something new.

xxxevilgrinxxx
October 10th, 2010, 07:59 AM
Although Young could have slitt his neck, TJ , would have seen the attack to the neck as such a cut would be clearly visible. Therefore if Young had merely slit the the throat it would have been even more likely that he would be discovered for his actions than suffocation. This explain's Young 's reasoning.

I don't think there's anything furtive in Young's actions, but Riley was someone he cared deeply for. I don't think a bloody, visceral death is something he would go for (and neither would the station that aired it)

Shai Hulud
October 10th, 2010, 08:05 AM
I still think that they should have used the plasma cutters to amputate and cauterise Riley's legs. They could have strapped a couple of kino's to his stumps to enable him to get about.

morbosfist
October 10th, 2010, 08:26 AM
Why would they bring a plasma cutter in the first place? He was gone by the time Destiny came back.

thekillman
October 10th, 2010, 10:33 AM
What the OP is saying though is that it is harder to suffocate someone then you think, they can become apneac and unconscious only to start breathing and wake up later. Many many killers have suffocated victims only to have them survive it.

i have a friend who studies medicine and he told me the answer.


because they were never suffocated in the first place.



next to your throat are two baro-receptors: these are nerves which measure blood pressure. of you suffocate the wrong way, you press these receptors (instead of closing off the throat). within TWO HEARTBEATS, your blood pressure drops like a brick. result: unconsciousness. the person thinks you're dead, leaves, but then blood pressure restores and the person stands up two minutes later.


but i'd do it anyway. in case of riley, he would be unconscious. therefore, suffocation would be painless. or whatever you wanna do to him.



I still think that they should have used the plasma cutters to amputate and cauterise Riley's legs. They could have strapped a couple of kino's to his stumps to enable him to get about.

if touching someone's legs makes your hands as red as TJ's, you're dead. no matter what.

Confessor Rahl
October 10th, 2010, 11:48 AM
Simple solution to this thread, its a t.v show........ its not real... in the SGU universe the way young killed Riley worked quickly and painlessly and had a dramatic element to it....

Also i doubt a t.v show is accurately going to show the mass public how to kill someone in-case someone copy's it in real life. That would be a lawsuit waiting to happen....

Heh heh, I was going to post a reply, but then I read this one. People getting into the extensive technical reasons as to why Young should have cut his throat or suffocated him a particular way makes me smile. I get we're here to discuss the situation, but a lot of people seem to forget this is a TV show, and dramatic effect is another consideration. He didn't want to be shot, so the options were a little more limited, and I think whether it was technically correct to some people or not, the idea was that Young suffocated him. End of story.

Shai Hulud
October 10th, 2010, 12:37 PM
Why would they bring a plasma cutter in the first place? He was gone by the time Destiny came back.

Errrr no.

morbosfist
October 10th, 2010, 12:38 PM
Errrr no.Not literally gone, but as good as dead.

Shai Hulud
October 10th, 2010, 12:52 PM
Not literally gone, but as good as dead.

Not really, TJ had stabilised him by the time Destiny dropped out of FTL and Young gated to the planet, the pressure of the wreckage was stopping excessive bleeding. He could have survived for hours before snuffing it. There is the matter of septicemia setting in from the buildup of toxins in his crushed limbs but that could be circumvented with a dab of the alien venom and the plasma cutters. Hohum... He's gone now anyways and we shall have to find a new chevron locker and encoder. :(

morbosfist
October 10th, 2010, 12:56 PM
Not really, TJ had stabilised him by the time Destiny dropped out of FTL and Young gated to the planet, the pressure of the wreckage was stopping excessive bleeding. He could have survived for hours before snuffing it. There is the matter of septicemia setting in from the buildup of toxins in his crushed limbs but that could be circumvented with a dab of the alien venom and the plasma cutters. Hohum... He's gone now anyways and we shall have to find a new chevron locker and encoder. :(TJ had already confirmed he would die well before Destiny ever showed up. There was no stabilization, he was pinned, slowly bleeding out, and she couldn't save him. Amputation is dangerous in the best of circumstances, and he was under that panel for going on 10+ hours.

tinerin
October 10th, 2010, 01:56 PM
Not really, TJ had stabilised him by the time Destiny dropped out of FTL and Young gated to the planet, the pressure of the wreckage was stopping excessive bleeding. He could have survived for hours before snuffing it. There is the matter of septicemia setting in from the buildup of toxins in his crushed limbs but that could be circumvented with a dab of the alien venom and the plasma cutters.

One, you need to check ur definition of stabilize cuz I seriously doubt that any certified EMT, nurse or doctor would call that condition stabilized (he was partially stabilized). Second, the pressure was slowing the bleeding not stopping it and technically, that was only TJ's guess at what was happening. Third, what sort of medical background do you have to say how long he could have survived, especially on an alien planet? Fourth, do you know if we even have any of the alien venom (or any other consumable medical supplies for that matter) left after all the stuff that had just happened on Destiny? And finally, how many successful amputations do you know of where the amputation was carried out using a plasma cutter?

Shai Hulud
October 10th, 2010, 01:59 PM
I'll concede defeat, I miss Riley :(

Shadow_7
October 10th, 2010, 11:48 PM
Not that it matters once he had been pinned longer than 2 hours. With the amount of blood within minutes as presented that TJ showed on her hand by touching his side. I'm surprised that he lasted 10+ hours for Young to do the dead. That much loss should have caused him to pass out and otherwise stay mostly blacked out. Or at least in a state of shock where he couldn't just have a casual coherent conversation with Young 10+ hours later. But I digress it's TV. Since Telford is the new military guy on set, I guess that makes him the new head trauma whipping boy by default.

RobertF
October 11th, 2010, 07:30 AM
Wait - are we absolutely sure Riley wanted Young to strangle him? The look of panic in Riley's eyes suggests he had second thoughts.

I think the more humane option would be to give him morphine, and then put him out of his misery with some of those handy alien toxins they recovered on the jungle planet in Season 1.

I agree with the earlier poster that we may see Riley again. Given what happened to TJ & her baby last episode, perhaps he'll be reincarnated on the artificial world they discovered.

Gollumpus
October 11th, 2010, 08:08 AM
Wait - are we absolutely sure Riley wanted Young to strangle him? The look of panic in Riley's eyes suggests he had second thoughts.

I think the more humane option would be to give him morphine, and then put him out of his misery with some of those handy alien toxins they recovered on the jungle planet in Season 1.

I agree with the earlier poster that we may see Riley again. Given what happened to TJ & her baby last episode, perhaps he'll be reincarnated on the artificial world they discovered.

Yes, we are absolutely sure Riley wanted Young to strangle him.

He mentioned that he wasn't going going to ask for Young's sidearm with which he could shoot himself because he feared that blame could fall on Young. He stopped Young from getting TJ, who would have any drugs (assuming she actually had ANY), because he didn't want to burden her with the guilt. Further, he had lots of time to ask her to put him out of his misery, and he did not.

Strangulation was the only means that Riley and Young had to end his life. Being a thoughtful (as in thinking about stuff) guy, he chose the option which allowed him to die and the crew to a) not feel bad about abandoning him to die all alone; b) allowed them to have a fantasy that he did die from his injuries and not from any actions on Young's part. If Young had beat in his skull with a rock then there would be doubt of how he died.

All that he needed was the someone to carry the burden of knowing what really happened in the shuttle (ie. to kill him). That person could only be Young, although I would have liked to have seen Rush get that job...

The look of panic would be there regardless of whether Riley wanted to die or not. The will to live is a very strong thing. Riley's body would struggle to survive even though the mind was telling it to not resist.

I really liked the Riley character, however, I'd like him to be gone. Done. I'd prefer this artificial world to not become the dumping ground for characters that the writers may want to use at some future point in time. That would be a little too 2001 for me.

regards,
G.

RobertF
October 11th, 2010, 07:33 PM
OK, it sounds like a very logical decision on Riley's part - no doubt we were led to believe that he weighed all the options concerning how he would die, and strangulation was the best.

And yet . . . I felt creeped out about Riley choosing (if he did) to end his life by being strangled by another man. I don't quite buy the arguments against asking Young to shoot him. Riley could have addressed everyone in the party, told them he chose death by a bullet through the heart, a more dignified way of dying than suffocation. Or just ask the rest of the party to lift up the panel and prop it up on a rock so he could quickly bleed to death.

Well, at any rate, maybe we're supposed to feel creeped out and disturbed by this scene. We're way beyond the (by comparison) light-hearted adventures of Stargate SG1. No heroic deaths here.

morbosfist
October 11th, 2010, 07:50 PM
And yet . . . I felt creeped out about Riley choosing (if he did) to end his life by being strangled by another man. I don't quite buy the arguments against asking Young to shoot him.Just to put this idea right out, Riley shows Young that he wants to be strangled. How? He makes a very difficult effort to shove his free arm under his back so he won't be able to resist. Not a lot of options to go by, and Riley clearly determined which one was going to be available.


Riley could have addressed everyone in the party, told them he chose death by a bullet through the heart, a more dignified way of dying than suffocation. Or just ask the rest of the party to lift up the panel and prop it up on a rock so he could quickly bleed to death.TJ would definitely not be down with that. Neither would Park or Eli. Scott and Greer might, moreso Greer than Scott I would think, but even then they'd be resistant. Riley had to ask Youg alone, because as his commanding officer he must have felt Young would understand.

RobertF
October 12th, 2010, 05:11 PM
Just to put this idea right out, Riley shows Young that he wants to be strangled. How? He makes a very difficult effort to shove his free arm under his back so he won't be able to resist. Not a lot of options to go by, and Riley clearly determined which one was going to be available.


Hard to say what Riley was doing. Searching for his firearm? The transcript on this website has Riley feebly attempting to push the panel off his legs so that he can bleed to death. But you're right that Riley didn't resist Young's suffocation, although he did stare at Young with a panicked look throughout the suicide assist/murder, which was weird (why didn't he shut his eyes to make it easier on Young?).


TJ would definitely not be down with that. Neither would Park or Eli. Scott and Greer might, moreso Greer than Scott I would think, but even then they'd be resistant. Riley had to ask Youg alone, because as his commanding officer he must have felt Young would understand.

A bullet through the heart would be a better way to go than strangulation, surely TJ would have objected less to death by firearm than death by suffocation.

morbosfist
October 12th, 2010, 05:14 PM
Hard to say what Riley was doing. Searching for his firearm? The transcript on this website has Riley feebly attempting to push the panel off his legs so that he can bleed to death. But you're right that Riley didn't resist Young's suffocation, although he did stare at Young with a panicked look throughout the suicide assist/murder, which was weird (why didn't he shut his eyes to make it easier on Young?).Hadn't actually read that. I have to admit it's possible, but Riley isn't stupid. He knows he can't move that console. It took two guys to lift it a few inches and they couldn't do it for more than a few seconds at a time.

The panicked look is sheer reflex. No way Riley could have shut that down.


A bullet through the heart would be a better way to go than strangulation, surely TJ would have objected less to death by firearm than death by suffocation.She would have objected to a mercy killing, period, regardless of method.

RobertF
October 12th, 2010, 07:12 PM
The panicked look is sheer reflex. No way Riley could have shut that down.


Can't say I've ever been suffocated to within an inch of my death, so perhaps reflexes do indeed kick in.


She would have objected to a mercy killing, period, regardless of method.


So I suppose TJ would have advocated either sticking it out to the end with Riley, giving him drugs to ease the pain, or simply leaving Riley when the FTL clock runs down. Leaving him would be an agonizing fate - especially if there are meat-eating critters in the vicinity attracted by the smell of blood.

One other thing - when Young informs the group that Riley is dead, TJ is seen walking back towards the shuttle, presumably to check the body. So...would she see definite signs of fishy business - bruises on Riley's neck, crushed trachea, etc.? If so, she's keeping quiet.

Gollumpus
October 12th, 2010, 08:28 PM
One other thing - when Young informs the group that Riley is dead, TJ is seen walking back towards the shuttle, presumably to check the body. So...would she see definite signs of fishy business - bruises on Riley's neck, crushed trachea, etc.? If so, she's keeping quiet.

Everyone there, with the possible exception of Lisa Park (who is sweetness and perky optimism incarnate - luv her) knew what had happened. You could see it on their faces. TJ would have known first as she was aware of Riley's condition and though he was going to die, there wasn't any likelihood of it happening for some time to come.

What the real thing of this is it is another event which is driving TJ and Young apart. Remember how close they were when he first found out she was pregnant? Remember how protective he was towards her? Then the wedges started to appear: the planet where she wanted to stay; how distant she has become since the LA experience (look at their interaction at the start of the episode) and now Riley.

regards,
G.

garhkal
October 13th, 2010, 06:04 AM
Everyone around that shuttle *knew* what had happened inside, that Riley had just not expired on his own. TJ knew it. Greer knew it. Scott knew it. The others would strongly suspect. Young asked TJ to leave them alone because he *knew* that Riley wasn't going to make it, and that nobody would want to leave him there to die all alone, and that he knew what had to be done.

It was also another example of Young taking responsibility for a horrible act for the good of the crew. Young knew the only way that it would end would be that Riley would be dead when Young left the shuttle. Riley, being the sharp soldier and good person that he was, gave Young a way out and asked to be killed. This allows the crew to lie to themselves, that poor Riley died on the planet from his injuries.

regards,
G.

While i agree, it was young doing what was needed, taking responsibility, what other :horrible" act did he do?


Hard to say what Riley was doing. Searching for his firearm?

Na. he was putting his arms under his back so he could not stop young.

Shadow_7
October 13th, 2010, 06:14 AM
Of course TJ might just be going to close the doors on the shuttle. We didn't get to see much to determine purpose plus actions. I just wish that the versions that aired on TV originally, on the web, and re-aired the week after didn't vary so much. Entire lines of dialog and other things present in one, missing in the other. Plus a general oddness to the timing of things. Like some of the LA leaving the ship was less than five seconds of footage. But significant to the plot. I guess that I'll have to buy the DVDs to get the uncut versions.

garhkal
October 14th, 2010, 05:30 AM
I think she just went to pick up her bags and such.

The Swarm
October 15th, 2010, 07:53 AM
YAY, they killed my favorite character yet again...seems to be an SG tradition.

Gollumpus
October 15th, 2010, 11:02 AM
YAY, they killed my favorite character yet again...seems to be an SG tradition.

So it's YOUR fault!!! Quick, say Rush is your fave character..... :P

regards,
G.