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randomking
October 7th, 2010, 04:32 PM
so tell us what you think about him seeing people...is he going nuts (beautiful mind stile)
is it the ship trying to communicate with him, or is it simply just a argument between him and his subconscious

jelgate
October 7th, 2010, 04:43 PM
All I'll say is Rush's claim of Young being mentally unstable sounds hypocritical

Replicator Todd
October 7th, 2010, 05:17 PM
I think Rush is perfectly sane, if not the sanest person on board Destiny. I can't really explain how or why.

Muh_tuttles
October 7th, 2010, 05:58 PM
Don't know how sane he is. I wouldn't be surprised if he suddenly died of a brain tumour though.

Naonak
October 7th, 2010, 06:26 PM
"The man is mentally unstable!" he screamed at his dead wife.

Fantastic stuff. Whatever's actually going on.

Ser Scot A Ellison
October 7th, 2010, 06:27 PM
Jelgate,

The moment you mention was a lovely use of irony.

fluxcapacitor
October 7th, 2010, 06:34 PM
Rush is definitely a disturbed person, but i don't think the people on the bridge were the result of his head. Maybe the chair messed with his head and caused him to see it or they were some type of hollograms. I think the ship knew what he was going to do b/c it had been in his head and is, slowly, trying to teach him the errors of his ways. Unfortunately others will and have paid the price for him learning that lesson.

pipi
October 7th, 2010, 07:08 PM
Sanity? I wonder if that question applies to all great geniuses. They are definitely not normal.

ckwongau
October 7th, 2010, 07:54 PM
I can recall a few stargate character who had talk with people who were not really there.

Sam , she was was talking to her niece Grace in episode "Grace"

In episode "Grace Under pressure" Dr McKay , when his puddle jumper crash deep into the ocean , he had talked with hallucination of Lt. Col. Samantha Carter, at one point he was about to take his pants off and attempt to have sex with the hallucination.

Scott when was looking for material to repair the life support, his priest from Earth was talking to him.

When Jack was torture by Baa'l , he was really talking to Ascended Daniel so he is excluded from the the list.

If Rush 's sanity is questionable because he was talking to people who weren't really there , then lock him up along with Sam , Dr McKay, and Scott.

Or they all could have been talking with Ascended being or God.

Aurora24
October 7th, 2010, 08:05 PM
I think the Rush's wife and Franklin are either projections from Destiny itself, or some medium of communication with the ship that has continued to exist from when Rush used the chair. If it was just Gloria who had appeared I'd be more inclined to believe that it was something that had been caused by his experience in the chair, but I'm not sure how Franklin's appearance would fit into that. Unless, or course the ship was attempting to use images of people it knew Rush would be inclined to listen to in order to communicate with him, which would explain why it would use both individuals, one on an emotional level, and one on a more scientific level.

escyos
October 7th, 2010, 08:30 PM
Rush isnt insane......everyone else is just not uninsane

pipi
October 8th, 2010, 02:08 AM
Yes, everyone is insane unless they can provide a certificate that says you are sane like in the Simpsons. Homer is the only one who is sane.

Petra
October 8th, 2010, 02:56 AM
I can recall a few stargate character who had talk with people who were not really there.

Yes, but in every other case there were very special circumstances providing logical explanantion of apparitions, which Rush lacks at the moment.


Sam, she was was talking to her niece Grace in episode "Grace"

Firstly, "Sam's niece Grace"? Huh? Where did you get that from? If it was her niece Sam wouldn't ask her: "Who are you?", would she? And why would she imagine her kid niece of all people? Finally there was never even a shred of evidence that Sam's niece is named Grace.

Anyway, my point is, that before Sam started having visions of Grace she sustained severe head trauma. Being injured like that can cause hallucinations.

If you want more sci-fi explanantion, Grace could be the manifestation of the nebula cloud Prometheus was hiding in.


In episode "Grace Under pressure" Dr McKay , when his puddle jumper crash deep into the ocean , he had talked with hallucination of Lt. Col. Samantha Carter, at one point he was about to take his pants off and attempt to have sex with the hallucination.

Again, IIRC, McKay had hit his head pretty hard before he started hallucinating Sam.


Scott when was looking for material to repair the life support, his priest from Earth was talking to him.

Most logical explanation? Mirage. Scott had been walking in the desert for hours and had been severely dehydrated before he started hallucinating.

More sci-fi explanation: sand aliens communicated with him this way.


When Jack was torture by Baa'l , he was really talking to Ascended Daniel so he is excluded from the the list.

Actually, Jack was having hallucinations too. He was seeing Shallan in his cell and in the torture chamber. That too however can be easily explained by the mental stress he was under during torture and reality mixing with his and Kanan's memories.


If Rush 's sanity is questionable because he was talking to people who weren't really there , then lock him up along with Sam , Dr McKay, and Scott.

Rush's situation isn't comparable to others because he isn't physically injured, doesn't have a head wound, doesn't experience harsh weather conditions, imminent death or prolonged torture like Sam, McKay, Jack and Scott did.

Now, I'm not saying he's insane, although I agree with jelgate that his calling Young mentally unstable while having visions of dead people himself is just a tad hypocritical. ;) I think at least some of Rush's visions have something to do with the ship. I'm pretty sure Franklin was 'real' for the lack of better word, but I'm on the fence re Gloria. IMO she could go both ways, although personally I'm leaning towards her being only in his mind, as a manifestation of his subconsciousness or conscience.

Ser Scot A Ellison
October 8th, 2010, 03:36 AM
We don't have enough information to say Rush is loosing his grip on reality, yet. Time will tell.

garhkal
October 8th, 2010, 04:55 AM
Y
Rush's situation isn't comparable to others because he isn't physically injured, doesn't have a head wound, doesn't experience harsh weather conditions, imminent death or prolonged torture like Sam, McKay, Jack and Scott did..

SO his being tortured at the LA's hands, being nearly suffocated to death (well his body), and being up all the time through the invasion and retaking of the ship has not been comparable to sam/jack or rodneys issues??

Shai Hulud
October 8th, 2010, 05:46 AM
Destiny is using the image of Gloria coupled with Uploaded Franklin to guide Rush, he's certainly not insane.

What is sanity anyway? A social construction which varies massively from culture to culture. One man's nutcase is another man's prophet...

Shadow_7
October 8th, 2010, 06:17 AM
Death by suffication, chest surgery, and getting thrown when the FTL drive failed, is not being injured? Do you work for health insurance company? Come on, you can tell us.

Assuming that Rush had a grip on reality to start with. He's had delusions of a grandeur since pretty much day one.

xxxevilgrinxxx
October 8th, 2010, 07:11 AM
so tell us what you think about him seeing people...is he going nuts (beautiful mind stile)
is it the ship trying to communicate with him, or is it simply just a argument between him and his subconsciousI think anyone that sat in the chair and came out walking around afterward might see those people too and I tend to think they're manifestations from the Destiny. That being said, Rush is talking back to them, and thinks they might be real people, so yeah, nuttiness.



All I'll say is Rush's claim of Young being mentally unstable sounds hypocritical


"The man is mentally unstable!" he screamed at his dead wife.

Fantastic stuff. Whatever's actually going on.This. This is frikken awesome on toast. Now maybe Young is having the mother of all hard times but when the guy on the ship who is bats*** crazy is saying you're crazy, maybe you're going to be okay after all.

Petra
October 8th, 2010, 09:18 AM
SO his being tortured at the LA's hands, being nearly suffocated to death (well his body), and being up all the time through the invasion and retaking of the ship has not been comparable to sam/jack or rodneys issues??

No, it's not. If he was hallucinating while being suffocated or while being tortured, then yes, I'd agree that they were all in the same situation, more or less. But Rush started talking to dead people some time after those events, when his life was no longer in immediate danger, which makes his situation different from the Jack/Sam/Rodney/Scott's.

As for being up throughout the invasion, I don't recall anyone taking a nap, do you? I'd even argue that Greer and Scott should be more exhausted than Rush, what with the space walk, gathering intel etc. And yet neither they, nor anybody else have hallucinations.


Death by suffication, chest surgery, and getting thrown when the FTL drive failed, is not being injured? Do you work for health insurance company? Come on, you can tell us.


:lol: Nope. Sorry to disappoint. :D

Physically he recovered from everything you mentioned, didn't he? And seriously, what does chest surgery have to do with hallucinating?

Shai Hulud
October 8th, 2010, 09:19 AM
Sanity is over rated anyway.

jelgate
October 8th, 2010, 10:18 AM
No, it's not. If he was hallucinating while being suffocated or while being tortured, then yes, I'd agree that they were all in the same situation, more or less. But Rush started talking to dead people some time after those events, when his life was no longer in immediate danger, which makes his situation different from the Jack/Sam/Rodney/Scott's.

As for being up throughout the invasion, I don't recall anyone taking a nap, do you? I'd even argue that Greer and Scott should be more exhausted than Rush, what with the space walk, gathering intel etc. And yet neither they, nor anybody else have hallucinations.



:lol: Nope. Sorry to disappoint. :D

Physically he recovered from everything you mentioned, didn't he? And seriously, what does chest surgery have to do with hallucinating?

Playing devil's advocate here, maybe Greer and Scott are more trained to handle physical and mental exhaustion. Sounds like something the military would do.

Shadow_7
October 8th, 2010, 12:46 PM
Physically he recovered from everything you mentioned, didn't he? And seriously, what does chest surgery have to do with hallucinating?

Well, we don't really have the time scale involved. So it'd be hard to judge if he recovered or not. Regardless he's had 3x's more alien venom than any other crew member. Which is why Rush is green and Chloe is blue. Wonder twins powers activate.

Larry The Chevron Guy
October 8th, 2010, 01:03 PM
To me, the situation is pretty obvious and predictable, but if it turns out to be what I think it is, it's pretty clever.

First, Rush used the chair to solve a problem, and his constant in the "Dream" he built was his wife. Since the chair is connected to the ship, all of this data was probably recorded into the ship's "memory".

Later, Franklin uses the chair to save everyone on the ship, and vaporizes or something crazy. Maybe his consciousness became part of the ship's memory, too.

So when Rush finds the bridge and turns everything on, it activated a system that allowed Franklin to project an image of himself acting as Rush's wife. Why? Because he would be comfortable with her there. Later, he showed up as himself because he knew Rush would trust Franklin more as a scientist and hopefully warn the shuttle in time (Which he kind of did, but he should have told them to about face and come back to Destiny.)

If this is the case, it'll be interesting to see further interaction between the ship/Franklin and the crew. I'm wondering if Franklin can only project himself on the bridge.

Also, I thought it was funny that Rush was going on about how Young isn't "Mentally fit to lead the expedition", exclaiming this to a possible figment of his own imagination. That was a well written piece of irony.

Ser Scot A Ellison
October 8th, 2010, 01:08 PM
LTCG,



Also, I thought it was funny that Rush was going on about how Young isn't "Mentally fit to lead the expedition", exclaiming this to a possible figment of his own imagination. That was a well written piece of irony.

Someone needs to send this to Alanis Morrisette so she can actually understand Irony, other than writting a song about Irony that includes examples of Irony, that are not Irony. That is Ironic.

Larry The Chevron Guy
October 8th, 2010, 01:13 PM
Lol! :D

blackluster
October 8th, 2010, 02:42 PM
For the time being I'd say Rush is sane until we can determine what the source of those projections actually is. It's possibly memory leak from the chair or, less likely I feel, some projection system on the ship. These visions haven't actually impeded Rush in any way from doing what he needs to do. The cause of issues on that front has been lack of sleep. That is the comparison in the mistakes made between Young and Rush. Rush's situation is remedied by a proper night's sleep, Young's is beyond the powers of REM sleep to fix by itself. Perhaps Young should sit in the chair so that he can have an moment with his inner self to help him work out his issues.

xxxevilgrinxxx
October 8th, 2010, 02:59 PM
For the time being I'd say Rush is sane until we can determine what the source of those projections actually is. It's possibly memory leak from the chair or, less likely I feel, some projection system on the ship. These visions haven't actually impeded Rush in any way from doing what he needs to do. The cause of issues on that front has been lack of sleep. That is the comparison in the mistakes made between Young and Rush. Rush's situation is remedied by a proper night's sleep, Young's is beyond the powers of REM sleep to fix by itself. Perhaps Young should sit in the chair so that he can have an moment with his inner self to help him work out his issues.that's quite the assumption there and not borne out by any facts - for either character

blackluster
October 8th, 2010, 03:26 PM
that's quite the assumption there and not borne out by any facts - for either character hmmm, I think there is enough to state it. As far as Rush goes, the statement you bolded is in the context of the paragraph before it, so if there is some objection you have to considering those facts, that would be the proper retort.

As far as Young goes, I simply state it as a matter of precedence. I have previously outlined (at length) what I've assessed as Young's bad decisions. In regards to the statement I made that you bolded, I wrote it because I deemed that the trend of bad decisions Young made seemed to be independent of whether he was having a good day or not, whether he was suffering from some chemical dependency or withdrawal, or )most significantly) whether he was well rested or not. I obviously can't speak about what doesn't appear in the show, but there seems a clear point currently that Rush is not getting enough sleep for whatever reason and it is affecting his attention detail. We know the hallucinations themselves are not doing it, since even they are warning Rush to get some sleep which he seems to be unable to do. I theorized in the discussion thread that this may be due to the presence of LA onboard causing him to have nightmares about his torture, but that is up in the air at this point. That in itself doesn't discount the statement I made though, since I wrote it based on what I've seen so far.

Pharaoh Atem
October 8th, 2010, 07:38 PM
so tell us what you think about him seeing people...is he going nuts (beautiful mind stile)
is it the ship trying to communicate with him, or is it simply just a argument between him and his subconscious

after 'faith' and the other strange thing that have happen i honestly would be surprised if it was spirits or beings talking to rush.

Aurora24
October 8th, 2010, 07:45 PM
Even if arguing that Young is mentally unstable is a bit extreme, it has been shown several times that Young has difficulty controlling his temper. His anger with the LA has clearly compromised his better judgment (not that I'm saying the anger isn't justified, it's just that Young isn't handling it properly). Adding to his existing emotional problems is the fact that he took Riley's life. Even though it was the right thing to do, it is something that even under the best of circumstances would be extremely difficult to live with. These are things that Young needs to deal, perhaps even consider getting professional help with, because they have effected and will likely to continue to effect his actions.

garhkal
October 9th, 2010, 06:23 AM
Destiny is using the image of Gloria coupled with Uploaded Franklin to guide Rush, he's certainly not insane.

What is sanity anyway? A social construction which varies massively from culture to culture. One man's nutcase is another man's prophet...

and if he is rich, he is NOT Insane.. he is eccetric!


As for being up throughout the invasion, I don't recall anyone taking a nap, do you? I'd even argue that Greer and Scott should be more exhausted than Rush, what with the space walk, gathering intel etc. And yet neither they, nor anybody else have hallucinations.

While they have had more work, tey are also trained to have a lot more endurance. Rush is not..


If this is the case, it'll be interesting to see further interaction between the ship/Franklin and the crew. I'm wondering if Franklin can only project himself on the bridge.

Maybe he is locked to the bridge till all the controlls are fully unlocked.


These are things that Young needs to deal, perhaps even consider getting professional help with, because they have effected and will likely to continue to effect his actions.

Precicely. He snapped on Telford (earth ep) after finding him cheating with his wife. He snapped on several of the scientists, some multiple times. Snapped on Rush.

randomking
October 11th, 2010, 02:45 PM
If Rush 's sanity is questionable because he was talking to people who weren't really there , then lock him up along with Sam , Dr McKay, and Scott.

Or they all could have been talking with Ascended being or God.
its not a question of sanity, as much as the origins and meaning of the peaple he was talking to...we all know he is crazy lol

Rob23
October 11th, 2010, 02:55 PM
Rush is a nutbag.

Seythia
October 11th, 2010, 02:56 PM
As long as he knows that the people he's talking to aren't real, I couldn't care less.
Conrolled insanity is kind of nice and fits well to Rush's character :D

Kaiphantom
October 11th, 2010, 04:09 PM
All I'll say is Rush's claim of Young being mentally unstable sounds hypocritical

Whether he is hypocritical or not doesn't remove the truth behind his statement. Whether Rush is mentally unstable or not, I get the impression Young is worse.

And it remains to be seen if Rush is crazy, as we don't know if Rush is talking to himself or hallucinating, or if the ship/Franklin is talking to him. So, to be fair, you have to consider that angle.

KEK
October 11th, 2010, 10:30 PM
I can recall a few stargate character who had talk with people who were not really there.

Sam , she was was talking to her niece Grace in episode "Grace"

In episode "Grace Under pressure" Dr McKay , when his puddle jumper crash deep into the ocean , he had talked with hallucination of Lt. Col. Samantha Carter, at one point he was about to take his pants off and attempt to have sex with the hallucination.

Scott when was looking for material to repair the life support, his priest from Earth was talking to him.

When Jack was torture by Baa'l , he was really talking to Ascended Daniel so he is excluded from the the list.

If Rush 's sanity is questionable because he was talking to people who weren't really there , then lock him up along with Sam , Dr McKay, and Scott.

Or they all could have been talking with Ascended being or God.

You sure?

garhkal
October 12th, 2010, 04:00 AM
Whether he is hypocritical or not doesn't remove the truth behind his statement. Whether Rush is mentally unstable or not, I get the impression Young is worse.

And it remains to be seen if Rush is crazy, as we don't know if Rush is talking to himself or hallucinating, or if the ship/Franklin is talking to him. So, to be fair, you have to consider that angle.

As a friend of mine likes to say/

You are not crazy talking with yourself.. only crazy if you start answering yourself!

Gollumpus
October 12th, 2010, 08:12 PM
I can recall a few stargate character who had talk with people who were not really there.

Sam , she was was talking to her niece Grace in episode "Grace"

In episode "Grace Under pressure" Dr McKay , when his puddle jumper crash deep into the ocean , he had talked with hallucination of Lt. Col. Samantha Carter, at one point he was about to take his pants off and attempt to have sex with the hallucination.

Scott when was looking for material to repair the life support, his priest from Earth was talking to him.

When Jack was torture by Baa'l , he was really talking to Ascended Daniel so he is excluded from the the list.

If Rush 's sanity is questionable because he was talking to people who weren't really there , then lock him up along with Sam , Dr McKay, and Scott.

Or they all could have been talking with Ascended being or God.

My take is similar to Petra's

Sam had experienced a concussion (at the very least) which could explain her "visions".

McKay was suffering from hypothermia, oxygen deprivation and likely head trauma so it's not surprising he experienced something.

Scott was suffering form heat exhaustion (at the very least) and dehydration which could result in his "visions" and filled in some of his back story.

Rush cannot lay claim to any physical trauma (other than caffeine and nicotine withdrawal), unless we want to include an impact with Young's head. His sanity issues are completely separate from these other examples you cited. As Dr. Silberman would say, "In technical terminology: he's a loon."


regards,
G.

Sarikali
January 14th, 2011, 11:05 AM
I think in Visitation, Cain reveals an important message. Of all things he says to TJ before re-dying (how does that worka again?)

It's: Believe in Destiny's mission and have faith in one another.

One of the HUGE principles of SGU is no one ever trusts Rush from the beggining up until now, even though he's sincerely doing things for their/his own good. Regardless they treat him like dirt through and through. Same thing with Chloe, they trust her at the beggining and as soon as she changes and they don't know something... they start misstrusting her right away.

What is that saying again: People fear what they do no understand?