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Flyboy
October 6th, 2010, 05:18 AM
Jumping off from a discussion that began with some other members in the Ethics thread for 'Aftermath', I'd like to enter into greater discussion surrounding how Riley was treated.

Initially, I was quite impressed, TJ went straight in for a head immobilisation to prevent any further spinal injuries, should any have been sustained. TJ stopped immobilising, so I'd like to ASSUME that off screen she found no evidence of spinal injury beyond the obvious 'I can't feel my legs!'... Fair enough, that makes things a lot easier.

So unless anyone disagrees with me, I'd argue that the inability to feel his legs was due to the crush injury, not spinal damage.

Now firstly, I'm a little miffed that after the promising immobilisation, NOBODY mentioned the fifteen minute window that exists with a crush injury before Crush Syndrome becomes a factor. Anyone with any medical knowledge understands that if the crushing object is removed after fifteen minutes chemicals that have built up in the damaged limbs are released into the rest of the body. This can be fatal. Hence, the lack of urgency in focusing all efforts on removing the crushing object surprised me.

Evidentally, the object could be lifted enough for TJ to decide that it was preventing Riley from bleeding out... at which point I ask... why the hell didn't she apply a tourniquet? That should have inhibited any catastrophic bleeding, and if the rest of the team had lifted the object, TJ and one other could have slid Riley out of harms way. Even if he DID have a spinal injury, a casualty can be moved in such a way.

If there isn't a damn tourniquet in that kit of TJ's, it makes me wonder what the bloody hell she has in there. For military personnel, a tourniquet and a field dressing are bare essentials in terms of battlefield first aid...

Shai Hulud
October 6th, 2010, 05:29 AM
FOB id love to green you for this post but cant just yet. Cracking post.

latvian_stargatefan
October 6th, 2010, 07:06 AM
Maybe his legs were as badly crushed that she couldn't do anything... I'm not a medic but if he was bleeding even with that thing on his legs and moving it only made the blood flow out of him quicker, maybe it couldn't save him anyway.
Not always a tourniquet can save you...

xxxevilgrinxxx
October 6th, 2010, 07:13 AM
FOB id love to green you for this post but cant just yet. Cracking post.

greened him for you :)

I won't see the episode until Friday, but I'll keep an eye out. Poor Riley gets clobbered again, huh?

Shai Hulud
October 6th, 2010, 07:17 AM
Why on earth do you have to wait until friday, are you only allowed one evening of televisual stimulus a week or something? Anyways cheers for Greening FOB, such generosity has earned you yourself a green!

P5C768
October 6th, 2010, 07:18 AM
I have to agree with FOB. I wasn't aware of the Crush Syndrome aspect, but once they established a connection with Destiny, why not bring ten people to lift the console and pull Riley out. If it came to it, why not try cutting off his leg? I'd rather someone try that then suffocate me.

I think that reality sometimes gets in the way of the story the writers are trying to tell and in that case, you have to focus on what the point of their story is. I didn't see the ending being about Riley as much as I saw it about Young. With his actions towards Telford, losing the ship, losing the baby, conflict with Rush, beating the LA guy and finally suffocating Riley, we are really starting to see that not only is he the wrong man for the job, but he is slowly unraveling.

Even if you agree that suffocating Riley was the right thing to do, it still has to weigh on Young.

Shai Hulud
October 6th, 2010, 07:21 AM
If there isn't a damn tourniquet in that kit of TJ's, it makes me wonder what the bloody hell she has in there. For military personnel, a tourniquet and a field dressing are bare essentials in terms of battlefield first aid...

Regardless of the contents of her kit; elastoplast, tampons, dental floss, eyedrops & milk of magnesia, they could have brought medicinals and surgical tools from Destiny when they cleared the gate.

morbosfist
October 6th, 2010, 07:50 AM
One has to remember that Riley was stuck under that console for nearly 12 hours, and they could not move it on their own. They could only lift it enough for TJ to just barely stick her hand under it and check the wound blindly. After 12 hours, there's no way they'd have saved him even if they had a full medical setup, which they surely don't.

Gatz
October 6th, 2010, 08:01 AM
I think that reality sometimes gets in the way of the story the writers are trying to tell and in that case, you have to focus on what the point of their story is.
Yes, but my suspension of disbelief has some limits. They can't just throw logic out of the window cause you're actually too lazy to do it right.

zainea13
October 6th, 2010, 10:24 AM
Completely right about the deadly chemicals building up. They should have tried their best to get him the hell out of there right away. Would have made it a little more realistic, but over all I think it was a good episode!

mere earthling
October 6th, 2010, 10:41 AM
Have to agree with FOB, the debris needed to come off immediately. Medical people don't care how much you scream-they will save you anyway. Screaming just means you are still alive :D

As for a tourniquet, she could have used a glove, I've done it in a pinch, it works.

Shai Hulud
October 6th, 2010, 10:52 AM
What gets my goat is the fact that the writers are perfectly happy to use those CPD's the communication stones to bring in doctors to perform surgery in previous instances but in this one its not even mooted by the characters, no consideration given to the possibility whatsoever.

morbosfist
October 6th, 2010, 10:56 AM
There wasn't anything to be done. By the time tending to him was even a valid option, he was already as good as dead. TJ's enough of a medical professional to know when a person isn't getting saved.

Petra
October 6th, 2010, 11:23 AM
I admit I wasn't aware that something like Crush Syndrome exists, so thanks for the info.

However, apart from this little detail, that in hindsight would have made the scene a little bit more realistic but wouldn't have changed the outcome, I don't really see the problem. If TJ was barely able to squeeze her hand under the console, for what? 30 seconds? there's no way she could have applied a tourniquet. Also, guys tried to pull Riley out but couldn't and again, it was said that his leg was stuck. The console covered his whole lower body and the guys weren't strong enough to keep it lifted for long, so cutting off his leg was impossible too. And before you say: they could have brought more men to lift the damn thing, did you notice how little space there was? Additional menforce wouldn't have had the space to assist. Recap: they couldn't lift the console, they couldn't pull Riley out, cut off his leg or stop the bleeding. What else could have been done?

Personally I don't think there was anything that could have saved Riley and the situation felt quite realistic to me.

MichaelSandar
October 6th, 2010, 11:28 AM
It seemed to me that it wasn't so much that they didn't want to get Riley out from under the console, but that he was wedged too far under to move him. Scott and (Greer, I think?) Tried lifting the console, and were only able to get enough room for TJ to check the wound with her hand. I thought he was still pinned . . . Otherwise, it does seem logical that they would have pulled him out and made a makeshift tourniquet.
At that point, I think we would have been past the 15 minute mark anyway, as evidenced by the conversation between TJ and Riley . . . "Have you ever worked on somebody in this situation before?"
Plus the several hour timeframe between the Destiny jumping, and when Rush brought it back out of FTL.

Mike.
October 6th, 2010, 12:30 PM
He didn't seem to be covered that much.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd306/Mike_M404/vlcsnap-2010-10-06-21h58m06s105SMALL.png (http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd306/Mike_M404/vlcsnap-2010-10-06-21h58m06s105.png)
[click image for full size]

1. To get a tourniquet around his legs they'd only need to lift the debris for a short amount of time, twice - once for each leg if TJ/someone else is quick about it. She can then tighten it in her own time.
2. Use tools people, grab a metal beam from the wreckage use it as a lever for some extra time, maybe slide in some big rocks.
3. If it hurts to much dull the pain with some alien snake venom.
4. Before making the decision to kill him - try everything. Really. ANYTHING is better than that choice. Knock him out with the venom and forcefully pull him out. If he dies, at least they did everything they could. It's not like he would suffer while being unconscious and there was still a chance as opposed to guaranteed death. Even if they're sure 100% that he won't make it drugging him would be the more humane choice compared to suffocation. And he was conscious. Horrible... :(
5. He told Young he was in pain - while earlier in the episode he said he was completely paralyzed in the injured areas. Inconsistency in the show...

Assuming he lived - being a double amputee is not much of an issue in the SG 'verse considering they can clone him some new legs with Asgard tech.

I didn't like the way this was handled AT ALL.

Lahela
October 6th, 2010, 12:44 PM
5. He told Young he was in pain - while earlier in the episode he said he was completely paralyzed in the injured areas. Inconsistency in the show....

He didn't say he was paralyzed, just that he couldn't feel his legs. That could have been nerve damage or shock. He certainly felt them when they tried lifting the debris, though.

Mike.
October 6th, 2010, 12:56 PM
Riley: I doesn't hurt, I can't feel my legs at all.
Looks paralyzed to me initially, and I thought being in shock just removes the pain (flooding the body with endorphins as a natural defense mechanism to give you better chances of escape if attacked and injured by a predator, for example) - not remove all sensations, including control. Of course, I could be wrong. :o

morbosfist
October 6th, 2010, 01:04 PM
He didn't seem to be covered that much.

1. To get a tourniquet around his legs they'd only need to lift the debris for a short amount of time, twice - once for each leg if TJ/someone else is quick about it. She can then tighten it in her own time.
2. Use tools people, grab a metal beam from the wreckage use it as a lever for some extra time, maybe slide in some big rocks.
3. If it hurts to much dull the pain with some alien snake venom.
4. Before making the decision to kill him - try everything. Really. ANYTHING is better than that choice. Knock him out with the venom and forcefully pull him out. If he dies, at least they did everything they could. It's not like he would suffer while being unconscious and there was still a chance as opposed to guaranteed death. Even if they're sure 100% that he won't make it drugging him would be the more humane choice compared to suffocation. And he was conscious. Horrible... :(
5. He told Young he was in pain - while earlier in the episode he said he was completely paralyzed in the injured areas. Inconsistency in the show...

Assuming he lived - being a double amputee is not much of an issue in the SG 'verse considering they can clone him some new legs with Asgard tech.

I didn't like the way this was handled AT ALL.He's covered enough that you cannot see his legs, at all.

1 and 2. Look at how they lift that debris. They can barely get it off the ground. TJ could barely get her hand under to check his legs. Bracing it wasn't much of an option. Riley would have bled out. A tourniquet at best would have slowed the bleeding, but nearly as much as that console was.
3. Rush woke up in the middle of surgery. It would not last him long. Besides, dulling the pain is the least of his problems. It also assumes TJ even brought any, which she might not have.
4. I'm pretty sure medical professionals don't just try things for the hell of it. You assess the situation and react accordingly. "Let's just yank him out and if he dies, oh well?" Seriously?
5. He was in shock before. Shock wears off.

Mike.
October 6th, 2010, 01:46 PM
Venom: Thanks to the Rush situation they know the appropriate dosage. They restored gate connectivity - that's how Young got to the planet and how they later got back to Destiny. TJ could have gotten some at any time after that.

Seriously: Yes. If he had 99% chances of dying vs. 100% he should have taken the gamble, he had absolutely nothing to lose at that point. He should have asked them to try, before his talk with Young, considering the alternative I'm sure TJ wouldn't have objected. Depending on how well the tourniquets worked an on-site transfusion might have been enough until they got a chance to properly close everything off/amputate. The gate was functional at that point, they could have gotten compatible volunteers from the ship and more skilled medical professionals with the communication stones.

99% vs. 100% .

jelgate
October 6th, 2010, 01:56 PM
What gets my goat is the fact that the writers are perfectly happy to use those CPD's the communication stones to bring in doctors to perform surgery in previous instances but in this one its not even mooted by the characters, no consideration given to the possibility whatsoever.

They lacked the tools to get Riley out. Its not just experence

Shai Hulud
October 6th, 2010, 02:04 PM
They lacked the tools to get Riley out. Its not just experence

So they have the tools to perform open heart surgery on Rush but lack the tools to amputate Rileys legs? Sorry I dont buy that for one second.

jelgate
October 6th, 2010, 02:07 PM
So they have the tools to perform open heart surgery on Rush but lack the tools to amputate Rileys legs? Sorry I dont buy that for one second.

A scapel is a very common surgical instrument in comparassion to a saw to amputate the legs. Never mind I think they would have removed that rubble to amputate. Something that was shown to be too heavy

Shai Hulud
October 6th, 2010, 02:11 PM
A scapel is a very common surgical instrument in comparassion to a saw to amputate the legs. Never mind I think they would have removed that rubble to amputate. Something that was shown to be too heavy

You do not have to saw through the bones to amputate, bone can be broken easily enough, you just have to apply enough force. And FWIW they stopped lifting the rubble because of the pain it was causing Riley, something they could easily have dealt with by giving him the alien venom anesthetic which they could have easily retrieved from Destiny once the gate was clear.

Shadow_7
October 6th, 2010, 02:12 PM
Bear in mind that at the time they had just crashed their ONLY shuttle and the gate was KNOWN to NOT be working.

Four hours for the FTL jump. Would have taken seven hours to dig out the gate, so they used C4. TJ was going to the planet to GET medicinals, so probably didn't bring any / much. Since the mission was to GET supplies, having room for them was primary if they couldn't get the gate working. And even IF they had everything needed, they probably couldn't have saved him. Low on rations, low / out of medicinals, and all of the other factors. Could he have been saved (remained alive) probably. But they're not exactly a 20 minute helicopter ride to the nearest mega facilities with the best doctors. TJ is just a medic, not even a real doctor. And finally no stones to bring one in. I think it's pretty much clear that everyone saw the writing on the wall. Hence the no questions asked when Young said he was dead after less than an hour when TJ was expecting him to last the better part of a day.

jelgate
October 6th, 2010, 02:16 PM
You do not have to saw through the bones to amputate, bone can be broken easily enough, you just have to apply enough force. And FWIW they stopped lifting the rubble because of the pain it was causing Riley, something they could easily have dealt with by giving him the alien venom anesthetic which they could have easily retrieved from Destiny once the gate was clear.

You do if you want a clean cut which is kind of needed for an amputation.

LoneStar1836
October 6th, 2010, 02:35 PM
Whose to say they couldn't have amputated him at the knee, then you only have to cut through the ligaments, tendons, and cartilage.

jelgate
October 6th, 2010, 03:04 PM
Whose to say they couldn't have amputated him at the knee, then you only have to cut through the ligaments, tendons, and cartilage.
um the patella bone?

LoneStar1836
October 6th, 2010, 03:06 PM
Cut around it as that is a floating bone and held in place by a tendon.

morbosfist
October 6th, 2010, 04:20 PM
The argument is moot anyway. Riley isn't trapped at the knee. He's trapped at waist height, well above any easily choppable joints. Moreover, TJ didn't have the supplies on-hand to do such a thing, and by the time Destiny was able to provide assistance, Riley was beyond help.

LoneStar1836
October 6th, 2010, 04:29 PM
The argument is moot anyway. Riley isn't trapped at the knee. He's trapped at waist height, well above any easily choppable joints. Moreover, TJ didn't have the supplies on-hand to do such a thing, and by the time Destiny was able to provide assistance, Riley was beyond help.People in real life have amputated their own limbs after becoming trapped under fallen trees, falling into rock crevasses, etc. and all they had on them was a knife so, imo, it's kinda hard to make the not having supplies argument.

I still think they should have made every effort to have freed him, even if he was going to die anyway.

morbosfist
October 6th, 2010, 04:31 PM
How many of those cases actually survived? Amputating a limb isn't something to be done lightly, and they were hardly sanitary conditions. Not to mention the many other problems.

LoneStar1836
October 6th, 2010, 04:40 PM
The ones that lived to tell the tale of them having to cut off their own limbs. :P Rather than die trapped under a tree....


I didn't say there wouldn't be problems, but just resigning him to his death. They gave up way too easily, imo, sanitary conditions be damned when he had a 100% chance of dying by being left like he was.

zainea13
October 6th, 2010, 09:50 PM
They could have used the shovel to cut off his leg. I know its bad, but its a viable option. Also, my old friend is in the army, I asked him if he had a shovel cuz we were going to go camping, they don't carry tents or shovels with them anymore. So they shouldn't have one on the ship... but that's beside the point.

garhkal
October 7th, 2010, 12:31 AM
Evidentally, the object could be lifted enough for TJ to decide that it was preventing Riley from bleeding out... at which point I ask... why the hell didn't she apply a tourniquet? That should have inhibited any catastrophic bleeding, and if the rest of the team had lifted the object, TJ and one other could have slid Riley out of harms way. Even if he DID have a spinal injury, a casualty can be moved in such a way.

If there isn't a damn tourniquet in that kit of TJ's, it makes me wonder what the bloody hell she has in there. For military personnel, a tourniquet and a field dressing are bare essentials in terms of battlefield first aid...

Hell.. they all had belts. I know in the various medical field trainings we have had, they say to use a belt if you need to do a leg tourniquete and don't have a proper one.


I have to agree with FOB. I wasn't aware of the Crush Syndrome aspect, but once they established a connection with Destiny, why not bring ten people to lift the console and pull Riley out. If it came to it, why not try cutting off his leg? I'd rather someone try that then suffocate me.

Being we don't know if they have any of that bug anesthetic, whos to say trying to cut it off would not have pushed him into shock, killing him anyway.


1. To get a tourniquet around his legs they'd only need to lift the debris for a short amount of time, twice - once for each leg if TJ/someone else is quick about it. She can then tighten it in her own time.
/quote]

And each time you lift, those chemicals get a chance to flow into the rest of his body.

[quote]3. If it hurts to much dull the pain with some alien snake venom.


You assume we still even have any.


4. Before making the decision to kill him - try everything. Really. ANYTHING is better than that choice. Knock him out with the venom and forcefully pull him out. If he dies, at least they did everything they could. It's not like he would suffer while being unconscious and there was still a chance as opposed to guaranteed death. Even if they're sure 100% that he won't make it drugging him would be the more humane choice compared to suffocation. And he was conscious. Horrible...


I know 2 people who were in situations where a loved one was on life support, and were still going to die... do you try and prolong it, keeping them in pain/making them lose dignity/suffer, or to you honor their request and end it quick.
Both of those coworkers chose option 2...


5. He told Young he was in pain - while earlier in the episode he said he was completely paralyzed in the injured areas. Inconsistency in the show...


He said he could not feel his legs. Pain was more than likely from the rest of him.


Assuming he lived - being a double amputee is not much of an issue in the SG 'verse considering they can clone him some new legs with Asgard tech.


And pray tell where the F are they going to get said asgard clone body from let alone to him?


Depending on how well the tourniquets worked an on-site transfusion might have been enough until they got a chance to properly close everything off/amputate

Thaat's assuming someone is of the right blood type. I am B+.. not that rare a type. BUT out of 180 or so people at the site i am at in okinawa, only 2 others are also B+..


Whose to say they couldn't have amputated him at the knee, then you only have to cut through the ligaments, tendons, and cartilage.

The fact he was covered up to almost his hips!!!

Flyboy
October 7th, 2010, 04:58 AM
I can certainly see the arguments against amputating based on the position of the console, but I don't think it should have even come down to that. There should simply have been a much faster effort to unpin Riley. Let's be frank, there's at least one genius there, nobody thought of using somekind of lever to lift the console of him? After that, they wouldn't require it to be lifted MUCH in order to pull Riley out. After that, maybe a CAT wouldn't have worked, but it would have given him much more of a chance.

Shadow_7
October 7th, 2010, 07:21 AM
It could have also been that Riley was a rare blood type and TJ knew that there was no donors to help him out. Too many IFs IMO. As much as we'd like to think they're Darth Vader capable. The basic premise is still donner party-ish. They just have a fancier wagon. Pulled by an oxen that doesn't know how to stop long enough do anything substantial.

Wayston
October 7th, 2010, 12:00 PM
I can certainly see the arguments against amputating based on the position of the console, but I don't think it should have even come down to that. There should simply have been a much faster effort to unpin Riley. Let's be frank, there's at least one genius there, nobody thought of using somekind of lever to lift the console of him? After that, they wouldn't require it to be lifted MUCH in order to pull Riley out. After that, maybe a CAT wouldn't have worked, but it would have given him much more of a chance.

I greened you for your OP, but personally I think it's realistic that they didn't unpin riley asap. Their first and foremost mission was to set up the gate asap. I don't have any medical expertise so wouldn't know how much they could have done afterwards for Riley, but I think it was a spot on decision of the crew to initially leave only TJ and that promiscuous woman with the wounded Riley... it's unfortunate really, if only his waist hadn't been covered he would have been able to receive a proper send off.... ;)

morbosfist
October 7th, 2010, 12:41 PM
"Out with a bang", as it were? As one might say, "I never thought I'd die this way, but I'd always really hoped."

Shadow_7
October 7th, 2010, 01:44 PM
In the case of self amputation, it was to get free so that they could get TO medical help. And not done as this is the only medical help I need. But yes, just saw the man in half, and torch the wound and he'll be singing beer barrell polka by monday. Not everything is as hollywood makes it seem. Or vancouver or where ever it's located this week.

SciFiRick
October 7th, 2010, 02:10 PM
I think it is an interesting point that the time issue for Destiny to jump could have been avoided. Since Rush wasn't going to tell anyone that he found the bridge and that he has already stopped the ship twice already meant that he wasn't willing to prevent the jump to keep Destiny in range of the planet in fear of being discovered. So, that action took out any possibilities in having more options to save Riley. Rush was right in saying that it was ALL his fault. If he hadn't been so desperate to find food & water and if he had not found the bridge then Destiny would have continued on is next destination with out incident. No one would have made decisions to go or not go to the planet and so on. Shuttles never launched and so on. That one decision set into motion the domino effect that we witnessed in this episode. Little did Rush know that Destiny would soon run into an object in space that might have the means to acquire food & water or even shuttles. Once Young finds out that Rush found the bridge and when he found it Young will go bullistic and throw him in the brig (if they had a brig) I think once the crew finds out then they will easily blame Riley's death on Rush and there will be issues

TheLastSunset
October 7th, 2010, 07:12 PM
I'm not versed in knowledge in these areas such as medical knowledge but a multitude of things didn't seem realistic concerning Hunter. Perhaps everything was realistic though, it just needs to be explained by the people who wrote it. Or most, or some of it is accurate to reality. I just don't know, but I don't see why everything wasn't being tried to keep him alive instead of the hopeless attitude. And if Young suffocated Riley it seems unrealistic one would suffocate so quickly. Sure, it would cost screen time to show it all but they could just cut to parts instead of making it unrealistic and happening so fast. I also have only watched it once so I'd have to watch it more. Perhaps it all can be explained by those who created it.

garhkal
October 8th, 2010, 04:16 AM
I can certainly see the arguments against amputating based on the position of the console, but I don't think it should have even come down to that. There should simply have been a much faster effort to unpin Riley. Let's be frank, there's at least one genius there, nobody thought of using somekind of lever to lift the console of him? After that, they wouldn't require it to be lifted MUCH in order to pull Riley out. After that, maybe a CAT wouldn't have worked, but it would have given him much more of a chance.

And pray tell what would they have used for the lever? I saw no piping.. rails.. rods.

Flyboy
October 8th, 2010, 04:48 AM
And pray tell what would they have used for the lever? I saw no piping.. rails.. rods.

It's a broken shuttle. I'm sure they could have found SOMETHING, besides, that's only ONE advenue of approach.

LoneStar1836
October 8th, 2010, 07:39 AM
In the case of self amputation, it was to get free so that they could get TO medical help. And not done as this is the only medical help I need. But yes, just saw the man in half, and torch the wound and he'll be singing beer barrell polka by monday. Not everything is as hollywood makes it seem. Or vancouver or where ever it's located this week.Nah. Really!?!?

Sorry, I couldn't resist. :P My point in bring up people who have had to cut off their own limbs was to point out that IF joints could be reached such things are possible with nothing more than a knife since others were arguing that TJ didn't have the necessary tools to even consider amputation.

Riley was essentially a dead man. Even if they could have gotten him out, he'd probably have died of his injuries or from infection anyway, but I agree with FOB that they should have tried much harder than they did to free Riley in an attempt to save his life.

Shai Hulud
October 8th, 2010, 08:08 AM
Nah. Really!?!?

Sorry, I couldn't resist. :P My point in bring up people who have had to cut off their own limbs was to point out that IF joints could be reached such things are possible with nothing more than a knife since others were arguing that TJ didn't have the necessary tools to even consider amputation.

Riley was essentially a dead man. Even if they could have gotten him out, he'd probably have died of his injuries or from infection anyway, but I agree with FOB that they should have tried much harder than they did to free Riley in an attempt to save his life.

http://www.oddee.com/item_96982.aspx

droid327
October 8th, 2010, 01:47 PM
Yeah I'm with everyone else in the "should have given it a shot" camp

Worst case scenario, he bleeds to death very quickly and doesnt suffer much

It seems they all were very quick to give up on him in order to build dramatic tension. Basically, they knew they couldn't do anything because it would be more dramatic that way. I hate it whenever story structure pokes up through the actual story in a show.

And I also hate it that they're killing off all the actually interesting characters. I liked Riley a lot. I dont so much like Chloe or Camille, or hell even Young lately. If they keep on this path, killing off liked secondary characters just to prove they will, they may prove that the show is willing to be "dark" and "realistic", but no one's going to watch it anymore because they've lost all interest in the characters left. Who's next - Eli? Greer? Volker? Brody? They're losing their balance between "realism" and "compelling, entertaining TV"

Shadow_7
October 8th, 2010, 06:04 PM
I don't know, I think the injuries were too far north. How you do amputate a kidney or sphincter? Definite quality of life issues there.

wingsabre
October 8th, 2010, 07:21 PM
I don't think the injury was that bad. Worst outcome is an amputation. It's somewhat clear that they probably don't have IV fluids but that could be made based on what they've found on the different planets they've visited. They just needed to stop the bleeding, give him some fluids, and and pull him out.

I'll give the writers more credit next time if they decided to crush him from the hip instead of the legs.

Pharaoh Atem
October 8th, 2010, 08:10 PM
i wouldn't want to see riley limping or rolling around the ship every week be to painful to watch.

wingsabre
October 8th, 2010, 11:22 PM
i wouldn't want to see riley limping or rolling around the ship every week be to painful to watch.

He'll probably get dibs on the stone

sparklegem
October 30th, 2010, 08:17 PM
I have to agree with everyone here--I specifically sought out this thread b/c after watching the episode I just did not understand why they did not try more things to save Riley.



5. He told Young he was in pain - while earlier in the episode he said he was completely paralyzed in the injured areas. Inconsistency in the show...


My interpretation of this is that Riley faked the pain at the end when he was with Young to try and make it easier for Young (more justifiable in Young's mind) to kill him.

garhkal
October 31st, 2010, 04:43 AM
Either that, or the time from when he first was checked, he got his pain response back.