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Shai Hulud
October 6th, 2010, 03:34 AM
How the bejesus was Telford allowed to use the communication stones? As a traitor he should have been locked up with the LA instead of being allowed to jump back to Earth. Bets on Wray having got him the access?

Ser Scot A Ellison
October 6th, 2010, 03:45 AM
SH,

I think many, if not most, of the military personel know about the "brainwash" on Telford. Thus those guarding the Stones would have allowed him access without express orders to the contrary.

As such it appears Young isn't keeping a particularly tight reign on the access to the stones.

As to Telford getting out of the hold. After he helped Young put down the riot I think it's pretty clear which side he was on and as such he was let out of the hold.

General Jumper One
October 6th, 2010, 04:58 AM
Telford was a mole, that is why he was in the hold

Spimman
October 6th, 2010, 05:40 AM
It seems fairly evident the brainwash has been negated, so why not give him access?

SGeff
October 6th, 2010, 05:44 AM
First the brainwash has been negated, it should be confirmed by Young. So he is no longer a traitor to the destiny crew.

Second he is still a colnol. We don't even sure who has the higher ranking, Young or Telford? So he does not have to ask others to promission.

Nadji
October 6th, 2010, 05:51 AM
I am glad that he did though. It's obvious he can be a much better leader, now that his big meanie streak has been reversed. I don't think Telfords trust will be questioned as Young suggested, the destinites should be aware of his efforts to re-take the ship.

sg1fan
October 6th, 2010, 06:15 AM
I guess Young didn't authorize access but what does it say about Young's authority if Telford was able to use them anyway? I don't think his loyalty is in question at this point. He's proven that the brain washing is over through his actions. I personally would like to see Telford take command at some point. I've never liked Young as a commander plus I think LDP would make a better lead for the show.

Shai Hulud
October 6th, 2010, 06:29 AM
I guess Young didn't authorize access but what does it say about Young's authority if Telford was able to use them anyway?

So I wonder who it was that got Telford access to the stones in the first place? If he had asked a member of the military they would have reported it to Young.

Orion475
October 6th, 2010, 07:39 AM
He was brainwashed and he's no longer brainwashed. He is now a mole

morbosfist
October 6th, 2010, 07:52 AM
Wray could have done it.

Shai Hulud
October 6th, 2010, 07:54 AM
Wray could have done it.

That was my first thought, she's a scheming *****.

Gatz
October 6th, 2010, 07:55 AM
I don't think he's a mole anymore. He wasn't at the lock-up the last time it was shown.
During the lockup fight he wasn't being pointed by any guard. And the last time he was shown (AFAICT when delivering the list) he seemed to be an equal to Wray.

Shai Hulud
October 6th, 2010, 07:58 AM
Wether he is a mole or not anymore due to his brainwashing being removed, his past actions stand. As Young says, the military on board Destiny wont allow Telford into a position of power unless Young allows it first. Why SGC consider Telford trustworthy is beyond me.

Gatz
October 6th, 2010, 08:06 AM
Wether he is a mole or not anymore due to his brainwashing being removed, his past actions stand. As Young says, the military on board Destiny wont allow Telford into a position of power unless Young allows it first. Why SGC consider Telford trustworthy is beyond me.

I was just responding to Orion my dear arch-nemesis :P
You two just happened to reply after I started writing.

I'm going to assume he lied and claimed to be Camille when reporting so he could have kinky lesbo sex.

Spimman
October 6th, 2010, 08:47 AM
I would think Telford's time under the brainwash should be factored into his rank, any gains made during that time shouldn't count...just like the crimes committed shouldn't count.

General Jumper One
October 6th, 2010, 08:51 AM
maybe he was a colonel before he was brainwashed

Shai Hulud
October 6th, 2010, 10:31 AM
I would think Telford's time under the brainwash should be factored into his rank, any gains made during that time shouldn't count...just like the crimes committed shouldn't count.

So the crimes perpetrated by suicide bombers 'shouldnt count' because they have been brainwashed by their recruiters and handlers? Get real.

morbosfist
October 6th, 2010, 10:49 AM
There is something of a difference between indoctrination and technological brainwashing. Teflord shouldn't be trusted right off the bat, and Young makes an issue of it, but he still was brainwashed a lot better than your average bomber.

Steelbox
October 6th, 2010, 10:54 AM
Well since he was a spy for the Lucian Alliance, what else could he have leaked? I believe that he went to earth for a debriefing with O'Neill. They need to know what else Telford have leaked or didn't leaked and the only way is trough the stones and there is no security risk in doing it, but of course Telford will be watched as soon as his conscience sets foot on earth.

Replicator Todd
October 6th, 2010, 11:03 AM
Telford rules, thats why he got to use the stones. :p

Galileo_Galilee
October 6th, 2010, 11:11 AM
Personally I'm getting tired of the stones gambit.

They never show the actual scene with the guys talking to their superiors for one thing so how can we be certain they have any credibility what so ever. Plus, they need to have the Colonel there to see for himself.

If it was me, I'd just shoot them for mutiny and be done with it.

Because Wray is always going to do her utmost best to undermine the Colonel no matter what. It seems we can make this into a drinking game. Every time Rush and Wray undermines the Colonel in some way take a drink. That's probably going to be the rule from now one is that Wray and Rush will forever be doing their best to undermine the Colonel. It's no wonder he's losing it.

It's really old and I'm getting ready to stop watching the show if this is all they have to create conflict. I'll give it a few more episodes to see if something really interesting happens, and if it doesn't then I'll probably quit watching it forever.

Ser Scot A Ellison
October 6th, 2010, 02:18 PM
SH,


So I wonder who it was that got Telford access to the stones in the first place? If he had asked a member of the military they would have reported it to Young.

Sure about that? Maybe they hadn't had time to tell him and Telford came straight to Young after getting back?

KEK
October 6th, 2010, 03:00 PM
With all the prisoners they have to guard now, it's possible that there just wasn't the man power to guard them, or else there just didn't seem to be the need.

Shadow_7
October 6th, 2010, 03:09 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if Telford is pulling a Rush on the who's in charge bit. Or if the LA folks have some magic mushroom to re-brainwash Telford. I guess we'll find out soon enough now that the three and half month wait is over...

Ashman
October 6th, 2010, 03:14 PM
Teleford went to Jack to pitch his side of the argument. Thats what I think.

garhkal
October 6th, 2010, 10:45 PM
So I wonder who it was that got Telford access to the stones in the first place? If he had asked a member of the military they would have reported it to Young.

most likely wray.. I would have thought scott also but he was planetside.


Well since he was a spy for the Lucian Alliance, what else could he have leaked? I believe that he went to earth for a debriefing with O'Neill.

That is a good reason why oneil and co did not immediatly switch him off.


Teleford went to Jack to pitch his side of the argument. Thats what I think.

But what argument would that be? That he is good now? That he was never brainwashed? That the LA should be allowed to live?

Shadow_7
October 6th, 2010, 11:07 PM
We never saw him use the stones. He just said he did. That being said, wouldn't it be interesting if the stones are still in use and it's O'Neill in Telfords body trying to evaluate Youngs fitness?

Lahela
October 6th, 2010, 11:39 PM
I think he was doing what needed to be done under the circumstances. They couldn't hold the LA prisoners indefinitely and he knew that some of them would have skills or knowledge to contribute, so he took the initiative and dealt with both his higher-ups and with Wray as head IOA person. Young may not have liked it, but he and Telford seem to be of equal rank so I don't see how he could overrule him on this one (although I have no idea how various other aspects come into play when you have two Colonels... I know there are variations on rank, but I have no idea what they are).

Shadow_7
October 7th, 2010, 12:08 AM
Haven't we come a long way from Rush claiming the same story. I just used the stones, they put me in charge. With Wray barking on about I don't recognize your authority... Please find adequate accommodations and stay there...

Lahela
October 7th, 2010, 03:26 AM
Haven't we come a long way from Rush claiming the same story. I just used the stones, they put me in charge. With Wray barking on about I don't recognize your authority... Please find adequate accommodations and stay there...

Yes, but in the eyes of the audience, Rush is supposed not be trusted, whereas Telford is a formerly brainwashed US military colonel who is in the process of redemption. Different circumstances, different responses.

garhkal
October 7th, 2010, 04:02 AM
We never saw him use the stones. He just said he did. That being said, wouldn't it be interesting if the stones are still in use and it's O'Neill in Telfords body trying to evaluate Youngs fitness?

Then would we not have see oneill there, not telford himself? AS with all other stone use situations.

Lahela
October 7th, 2010, 06:06 AM
Then would we not have see oneill there, not telford himself? AS with all other stone use situations.

Good point!

I'd also guess that with Wray standing behind him, she went with him for the discussion.

Shadow_7
October 7th, 2010, 07:30 AM
We usually see both actually. Virtual stonage? But physically the person on the ship is the physical form present. It could have just been delayed for the sake of a good syke out. IF he even used the stones. Maybe Young has the control crystal so he knows he's lying about it. Or whatever hybrid tech they rigged up in THE BOX.

SciFiRick
October 7th, 2010, 02:48 PM
Personally I'm getting tired of the stones gambit.

They never show the actual scene with the guys talking to their superiors for one thing so how can we be certain they have any credibility what so ever. Plus, they need to have the Colonel there to see for himself.

If it was me, I'd just shoot them for mutiny and be done with it.

Because Wray is always going to do her utmost best to undermine the Colonel no matter what. It seems we can make this into a drinking game. Every time Rush and Wray undermines the Colonel in some way take a drink. That's probably going to be the rule from now one is that Wray and Rush will forever be doing their best to undermine the Colonel. It's no wonder he's losing it.

It's really old and I'm getting ready to stop watching the show if this is all they have to create conflict. I'll give it a few more episodes to see if something really interesting happens, and if it doesn't then I'll probably quit watching it forever.

I think it is safe to say that these next few episodes is going to change from what we have been seeing up to now. I think the writers will bring everyone together into a single cause, leadership will be the leadership the fans want to see going forward. More exciting discoveries will be found on Destiny and on other planets. Once everyone finds out what Destiny's true mission is then we may see that following that mission may also inevidably get them back home. There will be conflicts but it maybe of a different nature.

At some point Young and Wray have to be on the same page. Take the scene where Young had made up his mind about the LA prisoners and wasn't willing to look at Wray's report is not what a commander should do to weigh all options. In their community it can't be a dictatorship. Young has to trust certain people to provide suggestions, possible solutions and thoughts while having Young take all the info and make a decision.

That is what fans really liked about a leader in the Star Trek/Voyager type series. Janeway would want solutions and meet in a conference room to discuss and talk out a plan. The leader still has to make the snap decisions when there are only seconds to decide but when time allows, get input. Young knows this or he wouldn't have told O'Neill that "we have to discuss this with the crew" about the scientist returning to Destiny and trying to power their gate with a sun again.

Shai Hulud
October 7th, 2010, 03:18 PM
Young has to trust certain people to provide suggestions, possible solutions and thoughts while having Young take all the info and make a decision.

Id hazard a guess that Young may find it a tad difficult to trust someone who led a mutiny against his command of the ship?

Shan Bruce Lee
October 7th, 2010, 04:24 PM
I guess Young didn't authorize access but what does it say about Young's authority if Telford was able to use them anyway? I don't think his loyalty is in question at this point. He's proven that the brain washing is over through his actions. I personally would like to see Telford take command at some point. I've never liked Young as a commander plus I think LDP would make a better lead for the show.

I don't know about that. There's no reason to believe whoever was guarding the stones was ever told specifically not to let Telford use them.

Girlbot
October 7th, 2010, 04:29 PM
I find it hard to believe that Young wouldn't have given specific orders on the usage of those stones and who would have access. No matterwhat Telford siad, whoever was there would have been given orders to check with Young first . Can't imagine Young would overlook that kind of order.

garhkal
October 8th, 2010, 03:56 AM
Id hazard a guess that Young may find it a tad difficult to trust someone who led a mutiny against his command of the ship?

True. but it was also his ineptitude that caused it.. He knew that, and asked wray.rush to help keep things in order after. Kind of messed up to now ignore her 1 area she is good at just cause..

beafly
October 8th, 2010, 07:05 AM
Stone Use = Snore

Super Carl
October 8th, 2010, 12:30 PM
Young did yell at him for using them, so I am sure he was not supposed to do that. However do they have guards?

Pharaoh Atem
October 8th, 2010, 07:39 PM
How the bejesus was Telford allowed to use the communication stones? As a traitor he should have been locked up with the LA instead of being allowed to jump back to Earth. Bets on Wray having got him the access?

he's not a traitor ! her was brainwashed beyond his control and now he's free of it and member of the destiny crew.

Aurora24
October 8th, 2010, 08:00 PM
Telford can probably go wherever he wants on Destiny, since he is no longer brainwashed. However, it seemed like they were keeping him locked up with the LA for a while, probably because Young thought the LA would discuss their plans around him and Telford could warn the crew if another attack was planned. He probably convinced Wray (or one of the guards) to let him use the stones one of the times when he was out of the room. Telford was also in the prefect position to decided who got to stay and go in the LA because he would know who would be useful. It also seems like Telford realizes that Young isn't thinking about their current situation rationally, which is why he contacted Earth himself. It'll be interesting to see in the future if he challenges Young for command.

Shadow_7
October 8th, 2010, 11:42 PM
If you've watched the webisodes...

You could see a segment where Brody thinks that Telford will get them all killed and suggests supporting Rush

morbosfist
October 9th, 2010, 01:50 AM
That was way back in the first half of the first season. Not that Brody's opinion would have changed much, but he must understand the circumstances now.

xxxevilgrinxxx
October 9th, 2010, 04:17 PM
I don't believe Young completely trusts Telford. The brainwashing has been removed but there's too much that's unknown about Telford's character or his agenda to be sure that the issues with the LA were purely a matter of being brainwashed. I think Young is walking a pretty fine line with this

Shai Hulud
October 9th, 2010, 04:29 PM
Young's killed him once, he can do so again! :D

smart
October 9th, 2010, 08:48 PM
Based on Telford's comment of how the list he devised was based on the recommendations made by both him and Camille and how Camille was delivering the list with him, I assume that she had a hand in getting Telford access to the communication stones so that he could use his influence on Earth to help secure some of the lives of the prisoners[ in essence act as a source for helping her achieve her goals]. Based on this it may seem that Wray would prefer Telford leading the ,military on Destiny as opposed to Young. This may lead to interesting storyline as the season progresses in terms of Wray utilizing other opportunities to undermine Young , in support ofTelford's leadership practices.

Gollumpus
October 9th, 2010, 09:23 PM
Based on Telford's comment of how the list he devised was based on the recommendations made by both him and Camille and how Camille was delivering the list with him, I assume that she had a hand in getting Telford access to the communication stones so that he could use his influence on Earth to help secure some of the lives of the prisoners[ in essence act as a source for helping her achieve her goals]. Based on this it may seem that Wray would prefer Telford leading the ,military on Destiny as opposed to Young.

What Wray wants is for Wray to be in charge of the military, and at the moment, she would prefer Telford to command it on her behalf. At some point, assuming Telford did gain command, Wray would grow disenchanted with Telford and would seek putting someone like Scott in charge. The process would continue until such time that someone over whom Camille had complete control, was in charge of the military.

regards,
G.

Avenger
October 9th, 2010, 10:31 PM
I don't believe Young completely trusts Telford. The brainwashing has been removed but there's too much that's unknown about Telford's character or his agenda to be sure that the issues with the LA were purely a matter of being brainwashed. I think Young is walking a pretty fine line with this

Agreed. Telford went behind his back with Wray to have some of the LA retained on Destiny. That's not something Young wanted. So even if there weren't other issues before between the two of them, now there definitely is.

Shadow_7
October 10th, 2010, 04:48 AM
Assuming that Telford actually used the stones to start with. Ultimately he would have to as he's the one with all of the LA intel. Perhaps even knowledge of other Icarus type planets. But I don't currently think that he actually did use the stones. And is otherwise pushing his own agenda, and/or seeing how much he can get away with. While he can.

Shai Hulud
October 10th, 2010, 04:55 AM
What Wray wants is for Wray to be in charge of the military, and at the moment, she would prefer Telford to command it on her behalf. At some point, assuming Telford did gain command, Wray would grow disenchanted with Telford and would seek putting someone like Scott in charge. The process would continue until such time that someone over whom Camille had complete control, was in charge of the military.

Which is exactly why she should get blown out of an airlock at the first available opportunity. She's a conniving, manipulative, self serving politician, the sort that come the revolution gets lined up against a wall and shot. She still seems to think that she is part of a civilian program / mission whereas in reality Destiny is a military command.

tinerin
October 10th, 2010, 08:53 AM
Assuming that Telford actually used the stones to start with. [...] But I don't currently think that he actually did use the stones.

What makes you think he didn't use the stones though? Don't you think Young would have either gone himself or sent someone he trusts (like Greer) to use the stones and confrirm the orders before following them? In my opinion, the only reason you didn't actually see Telford on Earth is because of the limited amount of time per episode (like where Rush's scene with O'neill was cut from the pilot) or for financial reasons so they didn't have to pay RDA.

xxxevilgrinxxx
October 10th, 2010, 11:49 AM
What makes you think he didn't use the stones though? Don't you think Young would have either gone himself or sent someone he trusts (like Greer) to use the stones and confrirm the orders before following them? In my opinion, the only reason you didn't actually see Telford on Earth is because of the limited amount of time per episode (like where Rush's scene with O'neill was cut from the pilot) or for financial reasons so they didn't have to pay RDA.

and that's provided he even talked to O'Neill.
There's no way to be certain who he went back to talk to other than his say so.

Confessor Rahl
October 10th, 2010, 11:58 AM
He was brainwashed and he's no longer brainwashed. He is now a mole

Seems pretty simple to me.

tinerin
October 10th, 2010, 12:03 PM
But again, why wouldn't Young verify O'neill's orders, either personally or by sending someone he trusts, especially if he doesn't believe Telford? Since Telford doesn't outrank Young, Young isn't required to follow Telford's orders so he'd only follow them if there was some sort of verification (like a special code O'neill gave Telford).

Also, if Telford didn't actually use the stones, what's to stop Young from just abandoning the leftover Lucian Alliance in the next episode?

Another thing to keep in mind, is that Mallozzi said you'll actually see less of the stone usage this season because that's what the fans wanted. So instead of having five minutes of Wray and Telford talking to their superiors on Earth, you just end up with them giving Young the 30 second cliff notes version. There's alot of legitimate production reasons why you didn't actually see Telford and O'neill talking but if they set the precedent about people lieing about stone usage, then fans would have doubts every time anyone claims to have used the stones and you'd end up with 5-10 minutes every episode of people on Earth...

Shai Hulud
October 10th, 2010, 12:31 PM
Seems pretty simple to me.

Young alludes to the fact that the military personnel don't see Telford as one of their own anymore when Telford tells him he has used the stones. He's certainly not part of the military hierarchy on the ship and the military don't trust him, the LA prisoners have a fair idea that he was behind Kiva's death so they arent going to trust him either. He can hardly be an effective mole if he's the most hated person on the ship whom nobody trusts?

Shadow_7
October 10th, 2010, 11:36 PM
The fact that Young can drop off the remainging LA at the next planet is probably why he followed it anyway. Until it can be verified. But we never saw Telford use the stones. And we didn't have time in that sequence of events to verify it (yet). But we had time to take about ten minutes watching TJ wake up to the faith planet.

tinerin
October 11th, 2010, 10:59 AM
The fact that Young can drop off the remainging LA at the next planet is probably why he followed it anyway. Until it can be verified. But we never saw Telford use the stones. And we didn't have time in that sequence of events to verify it (yet).

Considering that the stones work instantly, it'd take maybe five minutes for Young to pick someone to send back to Earth, say Chloe, for their identity to be verified on Earth, for someone at Homeworld Security to confirm O'neill's orders and for that person to report back to Young. Would you really prefer that they had cut five minutes out of the episode just to show that? We never saw Wray use the stones either but Mallozzi confirmed on his blog that the Lucian Alliance's plans to attack Earth factors in to later episodes, and, based on Simeon's original casting information, it likely factors in to why he was chosen to be kept on Destiny even though he's likely to instigate more attacks on the crew.


But we had time to take about ten minutes watching TJ wake up to the faith planet.

Except that we know this storyline has some significance in a later episode because we'll see the people from the Faith planet back on Destiny.