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LordHart
October 5th, 2010, 09:40 PM
So, exactly how long ago did the program come up with the codes to Destiny and how long ago did Rush find the location of the bridge? When he first goes there in the episode, it seems like he is stepping inside for the first time (especially with the gust of air entering the door), but he knew how to get there and did it sneakily like he had done it before.

Could he have known its location since sometime in the latter half of the first season? Perhaps after Franklin disappeared?

morbosfist
October 5th, 2010, 09:48 PM
Rush obviously just now found the code, and he probably figured out the location of the bridge earlier. It just didn't do him any good until now.

General Jumper One
October 5th, 2010, 10:05 PM
he just got the code, that is what made the system freeze

Selene1212
October 5th, 2010, 10:28 PM
he just got the code, that is what made the system freezeActually Park said rebooting usually unfroze it but then Rush comes in and taps a few keys and everything is golden. I think he just finally figured out the master code, but I don't think thats what made it freeze up.

Avenger
October 5th, 2010, 11:24 PM
I would gather that he knew where the bridge area was and that the error message he saw when he was in the control room with Park told him that the master code had finally been cracked.

If he had known the master code sooner, he would have been in the bridge doing things far sooner than this episode.

LordHart
October 5th, 2010, 11:59 PM
If he had known the master code sooner, he would have been in the bridge doing things far sooner than this episode.

Who says that we've seen all of his activity on the ship though? Just because we hadn't seen it and the fact that he hasn't told anyone, doesn't mean that when alone, he hadn't been popping up there and doing things. He is a sneaky jerk that way.

SciFiRick
October 6th, 2010, 12:08 AM
I would gather that he knew where the bridge area was and that the error message he saw when he was in the control room with Park told him that the master code had finally been cracked.

If he had known the master code sooner, he would have been in the bridge doing things far sooner than this episode.

It is possible that when Rush, Brody and Volker told Young at the end of the episode of "Human" that there was a significance with the number 46 as a basis that he can run a program to unlock the master code. This may have been the result of that program extrapolating the number 46 to the master code. This may have been interpreted by Parks as a freeze up and did a reboot. From her comments this was not the first freeze up. If this is fact, then the master code had already been determined unknowingly before this episode. No one except for Rush would have recognized what was believed to be an error code. It was at this time he saw everything on the console and knew everything.

any_gopher
October 6th, 2010, 12:38 AM
This is essentially my guess. I took the "freeze-up" to be exactly what Rush intended when the computer extrapolated the mater code. The computer would keep working, but if he came up with the solution when he wasn't there, that would give him away. He probably had it set that way so a) no one would see what had just happened and b) he'd find out right away when someone came in got him. This would also explain is mild irritation at Dr. Park not doing that.

Ser Scot A Ellison
October 6th, 2010, 03:44 AM
I'm confident Rush just found the code. He'd have been on the bridge doing fixes during the incursion otherwise.

Mr.Xcelent
October 6th, 2010, 04:32 AM
I agree with SciFiRick & Ganthet Jr. This is something that Rush would do. He want to complete Destiny's mission. To unlock it secrets. He doesn't want Young to turn the ship around, and he sure as hell does not want earth gov on the ship. He got his own agenda and sharing the information will only come when he fells it necessary.

Kaiphantom
October 6th, 2010, 08:17 AM
I agree with SciFiRick & Ganthet Jr. This is something that Rush would do. He want to complete Destiny's mission. To unlock it secrets. He doesn't want Young to turn the ship around, and he sure as hell does not want earth gov on the ship. He got his own agenda and sharing the information will only come when he fells it necessary.

Except Young knows that turning the ship around is pointless. He knows that even if Destiny were flipped right this instant, it would still take millions of years to get back to Earth.

Anyway, agree that Rush probably set the computer program up so that when it found the master code, it would hide that and produce an error that no one else would know what to do with. That's why Young could easily clear it up, and why he didn't explain to Park, and why he was a bit irritated with her (his lack of sleep another reason).

Arwis
October 6th, 2010, 11:24 AM
Except Young knows that turning the ship around is pointless. He knows that even if Destiny were flipped right this instant, it would still take millions of years to get back to Earth.

Anyway, agree that Rush probably set the computer program up so that when it found the master code, it would hide that and produce an error that no one else would know what to do with. That's why Young could easily clear it up, and why he didn't explain to Park, and why he was a bit irritated with her (his lack of sleep another reason).

Does it matter if he knows that? He would probably order to look for alternatives rather than continue the path destiny intended.

It's from Rush's point of view.

tomstone
October 6th, 2010, 12:07 PM
I agree with those that say that the freeze was intended. It makes sense for Rush, also the code was found somewhere between "Intervention" and now. Rush would have noticed it earlier since he was on the consoles all the time. So maybe it froze just 2 or 3 times till Rush did.

It could be, that by figuring out the master code, the Computer told Rush where to go. He used the Elevator to get there and besides Eli(who had no idea what he was doing) we havent seen anybody use them. Rush is smart, but why wouldnt he tell the others if he figured out how to work them and get around the Ship easier?

His behaviour on the Bridge was the strangest. I believe the Chair did something to him besides giving him the answer he needed or he is going nuts. It could go either way, but we will see.

He wont be able to hide his discovery for long if he keeps going like this. He wants to find out Destiny┬┤s mission and in order to do that, he wouldnt be there a lot. I dont think he can find a excuse for long.

Mike.
October 6th, 2010, 01:11 PM
he just got the code, that is what made the system freeze

This is basically it. It's possible that along with the code he also got directions to the bridge (if he didn't know already where it was).

Speaking of Rush, what do you think about his mental state - has he gone insane or is the ship really communicating with him (holograms, telepathic link, small version of the ship's consciousness downloaded into his brain) ?

Either way he's not fit to pilot the ship by himself, not mentally and not physically. Franklin (whatever he is) is absolutely correct.

Mr.Xcelent
October 6th, 2010, 05:44 PM
What we tend to forget is that the ancients where mentally advance. Some display ability's to heal, speak telepathically. So who knows what effect sitting in the chair had on a man who compared to the ancients only use 10% of the human brain. And how sitting in the chair would have on the person having to use the ships system. This is like an early version of the Atlantis chair meet the obelisk that almost killed O'Niel, and Merlin would use.But Rush no matter how smart he is cant handle it alone. Just like his wife said. That my theory.

morsu
October 6th, 2010, 07:05 PM
Rush is an arse. He is not going to gain anyones respect by doing what he is doing.
It doesn't matter if he doesn't care. He probably thinks he has the right too because he is smarter than everyone else or he has a couple of PHD'S. What a ******. Just because you are smart it does not mean that you are Wise.
This time he is going to piss off two colonels.

the fifth man
October 6th, 2010, 07:33 PM
Rush is an arse. He is not going to gain anyones respect by doing what he is doing.
It doesn't matter if he doesn't care. He probably thinks he has the right too because he is smarter than everyone else or he has a couple of PHD'S. What a ******. Just because you are smart it does not mean that you are Wise.
This time he is going to piss off two colonels.

Personally, I can't wait until his little secret comes out. I hope they find out everything. I have a feeling that Young already knows something isn't quite right with how Rush has been acting.

Shadow_7
October 6th, 2010, 10:48 PM
There's intelligent, then there's smart. Smart implies doing what's best / expected. i.e. Playing well with others. Then there's intelligent which means that you know things.

Smart would have been not being at odds with Young. He's a well trained murderer after all. He might not be fit to command, but he has a gun and a sense of entitlement. Rush just has a sense of entitlement. He opted to leave the gun with Young. And given the opportunity, will do so again.

garhkal
October 6th, 2010, 11:00 PM
This is essentially my guess. I took the "freeze-up" to be exactly what Rush intended when the computer extrapolated the mater code. The computer would keep working, but if he came up with the solution when he wasn't there, that would give him away. He probably had it set that way so a) no one would see what had just happened and b) he'd find out right away when someone came in got him. This would also explain is mild irritation at Dr. Park not doing that.

I would also assume this is why the computer 'glitched'... Perhaps he also had it give him the 'frame number and level' for said bridge.


His behaviour on the Bridge was the strangest. I believe the Chair did something to him besides giving him the answer he needed or he is going nuts. It could go either way, but we will see.


What the talking to his wife? or franklin? Perhaps that WAS the way franklin was trying to communicate with rush since his absorbtion.
BUT i will say great use of him again.


What we tend to forget is that the ancients where mentally advance. Some display ability's to heal, speak telepathically. So who knows what effect sitting in the chair had on a man who compared to the ancients only use 10% of the human brain. And how sitting in the chair would have on the person having to use the ships system. This is like an early version of the Atlantis chair meet the obelisk that almost killed O'Niel, and Merlin would use.But Rush no matter how smart he is cant handle it alone. Just like his wife said. That my theory.

Perhaps that is why franklin went bobko. Cause his brain could not handle all the info. Rush has a bit bigger capacity for knowledge so could, but is starting to lose it.


Personally, I can't wait until his little secret comes out. I hope they find out everything. I have a feeling that Young already knows something isn't quite right with how Rush has been acting.

I think he suspects something is up, perhaps one of rushes mind games... but not this.

morsu
October 7th, 2010, 03:51 AM
The problem is that Rush pretty much treats Young like a dumb ass and that is his problem. Although Young might be mentally unstable for the moment he is by no means stupid and that preview clip of awakening definately shows that in the way he made a wise crack about Rushes ability to see the future. It seems to me from just watching that clip that Rush is evan more confindent than normal and that would be a dead give away to Young in my opinion.

Young might not have a PHD to his name but he is a seasoned campaigner with a lot of experience and a person with his experience can always tell when someone is full of **** and trying to conceal something.

Ser Scot A Ellison
October 7th, 2010, 03:57 AM
morsu,

The problem is mutual. Rush treat's Young as though Young could go off and do something hairbrained at any moment and withholds information (with cause). Young treats Rush as completely untrustworthy (with cause). As such they are both complicating an already bad situation.

I don't quite know how they can get out of the feedback loop their relationship has created.

morsu
October 7th, 2010, 04:21 AM
Yes you are right but young has every right to feel that way because Rush just keeps doing things of his own will. He keeps doing things to suit himself. He is a pain in the backside.
He is so fixated on his own goals that he is going to severely compromise the rest of the crew at some stage.

Ser Scot A Ellison
October 7th, 2010, 04:33 AM
Morsu,

And Young keeps doing things that are ill considered. Now the problem is Rush attempts to prevent those ill considered actions by withholding information increasing Young's distrust and prompting more ill considered actions by Young prompting Rush to withhold information. As I said it's a feedback loop. Each iteration makes the situation worse.

Kaiphantom
October 7th, 2010, 08:31 AM
Does it matter if he knows that? He would probably order to look for alternatives rather than continue the path destiny intended.

It's from Rush's point of view.

Young already told Rush, "What does it matter if we gain control of the ship? If we turn around, how long will it take to get home?" when Rush pushed him on the chair. To wit, Rush knows Young doesn't care about turning the ship around. He knows Young thinks the answer to getting home is getting enough power to gate home, or some other method.


Personally, I can't wait until his little secret comes out. I hope they find out everything. I have a feeling that Young already knows something isn't quite right with how Rush has been acting.

It's fairly obvious you haven't read spoilers, so judging by your tone, I'll just tell you that I think you might want to prepare yourself to be disappointed.

radiosgalore
October 7th, 2010, 10:36 AM
It's fairly obvious you haven't read spoilers, so judging by your tone, I'll just tell you that I think you might want to prepare yourself to be disappointed.

uurrrgh this is what i was afraid of. Rush has way way to much power now and frankly he needs to be exposed. though if he was i'm not sure what would happen. can't shove him in a brig for who knows how long and even if he was killed Eli could not exactly take over now could he. But a decent command structure needs to be organised with a bridge crew. for that to happen Rush's 'little secret' has to come out

morsu
October 7th, 2010, 02:26 PM
Ser Scot A Ellison,

I am not saying Young is perfect but i think I would rather have Young at the helm rather than Rush.

Granted Young has made a couple of bad decisions but he has always had the good of the crew or individuals in mind when he has made them.

Can you say the same for Rush? I can't.

Ser Scot A Ellison
October 7th, 2010, 02:29 PM
morsu,


Ser Scot A Ellison,

I am not saying Young is perfect but i think I would rather have Young at the helm rather than Rush.

Granted Young has made a couple of bad decisions but he has always had the good of the crew or individuals in mind when he has made them.

Can you say the same for Rush? I can't.

I'd rather have a rational actor at the helm any day of the week than someone driven by their emotions. I like Young. I do think he is doing his best but he consistently lets his emotions rule. That's a very bad trait in a commander. If I were O'Neill and I believed Telford was really unbrainwashed I'd probably releave Young and put Telford in command with Young as his XO.

morsu
October 7th, 2010, 06:54 PM
Ser Scot A Ellison,

Youre saying he is emotional and an emotional person should not be in command but for myself, I would say he has been emotional only in the last 2 episodes which i have seen.

I have not seen aftermath yet. obviously the guy is greeving because of the loss of his Child and he has a lot of anger and who could blame him. The lucian alliance are a pack of thugs and it is thier fault all this has happened.

He is doing the best he can and it is Rush and Wray are constantly underming him only because they are a billion or more lightyears away from home. You will always have problems as long as you have to depend on people like that.

The problem is Rush because he has always wanted to be in command, He has an Ego the size of Mount Everest. this is the reason he has not told anyone about the Bridge because if everyone finds out he will lose control.

Anycase if the Sgc wanted Young removed they would have done so. They are giving him the benifit of the dougt so far.

Furliciousy2k9
October 8th, 2010, 03:37 AM
I am confident that Rush doesn't want to be the leader of the expedition, all he wants is to be left alone in order to understand Destiny's true mission and to help it get there and also if it's possible to ascend :P
In the episode with the framing of Young and Wray getting the command (for a short period of time) all Rush wanted was to be left in charge of his scientist fellows and work for the moment on the chair (that was the priority in Rush's opinion at the time)

garhkal
October 8th, 2010, 04:06 AM
Ser Scot A Ellison,

I am not saying Young is perfect but i think I would rather have Young at the helm rather than Rush.

Granted Young has made a couple of bad decisions but he has always had the good of the crew or individuals in mind when he has made them.

Can you say the same for Rush? I can't.

Yes.. Unlike young who let his feelings for ONE man (telford) jeopardize the entire crew/ship, rush put aside feelings for several other crew (scott and tj at least), to save the ship and get everyone else back.

Artemis-Neith
October 8th, 2010, 04:06 AM
I am confident that Rush doesn't want to be the leader of the expedition, all he wants is to be left alone in order to understand Destiny's true mission and to help it get there and also if it's possible to ascend :P
In the episode with the framing of Young and Wray getting the command (for a short period of time) all Rush wanted was to be left in charge of his scientist fellows and work for the moment on the chair (that was the priority in Rush's opinion at the time)

I think it's that. Rush is not really after the power just to be in charge, for being in charge. All he seems to want is the right person in that position who'll let him do his work, in the way he wants to do it.

The problems between Young and Rush just got renewed after Young's decision not to disconnect the stones in "Subversion". From Rush's point of view it must look like Young tried by all means to save one of his old buddies, Telford, who turned out to be a traitor, and by doing so, risking not only his life, but also the life of everybody else's on board that ship. I think the opening scene with Rush going through the torture again was a reminder of that. Normally people don't forget very easy such an event, and Rush is not an exception to that. And this episode is indeed the aftermath of what started in "Subversion".

beafly
October 8th, 2010, 06:39 AM
It would make sense if the code the computer finally spit out for rush in this episode, not only opened the door to the bridge, but also allowed elevator access to the command deck.

If I were building a ship that size, I'd build at least two physical layers of security into access of the command and control systems.

As was pointed out in some other threads, the bridge doesn't cover the entire top deck, so there is likely more going on up there you'd want to secure.

Ser Scot A Ellison
October 8th, 2010, 07:06 AM
morsu,


Ser Scot A Ellison,

Youre saying he is emotional and an emotional person should not be in command but for myself, I would say he has been emotional only in the last 2 episodes which i have seen.

I have not seen aftermath yet. obviously the guy is greeving because of the loss of his Child and he has a lot of anger and who could blame him. The lucian alliance are a pack of thugs and it is thier fault all this has happened.

He is doing the best he can and it is Rush and Wray are constantly underming him only because they are a billion or more lightyears away from home. You will always have problems as long as you have to depend on people like that.

The problem is Rush because he has always wanted to be in command, He has an Ego the size of Mount Everest. this is the reason he has not told anyone about the Bridge because if everyone finds out he will lose control.

Anycase if the Sgc wanted Young removed they would have done so. They are giving him the benifit of the dougt so far.

No, Rush doesn't want to be in command. I think he's figured out that would take too much time away from his research into the ship itself. Rush wants to be consulted before Young does stuff he doesn't understand with the ship.

beafly
October 8th, 2010, 07:09 AM
Rush doesn't want to be in command as long as whomever is in command is following Rush's idea of what is the correct thing to do.

morsu
October 9th, 2010, 01:46 AM
Yes.. Unlike young who let his feelings for ONE man (telford) jeopardize the entire crew/ship, rush put aside feelings for several other crew (scott and tj at least), to save the ship and get everyone else back.

Actually he did not. Although Young was concerend for Telford I believe he would of followed through with his threat to vent the atmosphere. He was still in a strong position at that stage and he had no way of knowing that the Lucian Alliance had keys to the doors.

Rush only does things to benefit himself. He is concerend with one thing and that is his own safety. Look at what Telford said about him, Didn't take him long to say that Rush is a Coward.

If you want to lay blame at anyone you should be laying aim at Rush.
He is the one who initially got them stranded there against orders, the man is self obsesed with the mission. He is untrustworthy.
Bad thing he has done since the start of the Show,

1. Got them stranded there.
2. Tried to frame Young.
3. Manipulated stupid Wray into staging a Mutiny.
4. Handed over A stone to the Smurfs.
5. Got the Lucian alliance on board.
6. Now he is witholding information about the Bridge and possibly Screwing up the Drives.

I believe if Rush told Young about the Bridge and the fact that he has control of the ship and the information on the planet, Riley would still be Alive because there would have been a lot more people stationed on the bridge sorting through the information
and they would have been prepared.

Because Rush is Self Absorbed, Untrustworthy, Egotisticle and Obsesed... Riley is Dead.
No way in hell i would follow a man like that.

morbosfist
October 9th, 2010, 01:55 AM
1. Got them stranded there.
2. Tried to frame Young.
3. Manipulated stupid Wray into staging a Mutiny.
4. Handed over A stone to the Smurfs.
5. Got the Lucian alliance on board.
6. Now he is witholding information about the Bridge and possibly Screwing up the Drives.1. At best irrelevant to the invasion. It sucks, but at least someone is there to stop the Alliance. You'd rather they take the ship unopposed?
2. Leads into 4.
3. For good reason. Young would have gotten them killed in that situation.
4. Because of 2, and it actually proved to benefit them in the long run.
5. Only because Young would not disconnect him. You try resisting torture and having your life threatened.
6. Only the first part is true. The second is baseless accusations when Rush is demonstrably trying to avoid doing just that.

morsu
October 9th, 2010, 02:10 AM
1. At best irrelevant to the invasion. It sucks, but at least someone is there to stop the Alliance. You'd rather they take the ship unopposed?
2. Leads into 4.
3. For good reason. Young would have gotten them killed in that situation.
4. Because of 2, and it actually proved to benefit them in the long run.
5. Only because Young would not disconnect him. You try resisting torture and having your life threatened.
6. Only the first part is true. The second is baseless accusations when Rush is demonstrably trying to avoid doing just that.

1. Doesn't matter They could have found another planet just as the Lucian alliance did and bring the proper people and supplies.
2. Your missing the point.
3. What situation, only the one that rush created.
4. That's an awsome idea. lets hand over tech to the enemy cause we might get lucky.
5. And he did it for good reason. If he would have disconected the stones Telford would still be on their side and they would of eventually made it on board anyway. If there is 1 mole rest assured there are others.
6. Rush said it himself its not baseless.

garhkal
October 9th, 2010, 07:07 AM
4. That's an awsome idea. lets hand over tech to the enemy cause we might get lucky.

Whos saying he handed it over? HE WAS TAKEN CAPTIVE! Kind of hard to not have something in your posession taken.

morbosfist
October 9th, 2010, 08:31 AM
1. Doesn't matter They could have found another planet just as the Lucian alliance did and bring the proper people and supplies.
2. Your missing the point.
3. What situation, only the one that rush created.
4. That's an awsome idea. lets hand over tech to the enemy cause we might get lucky.
5. And he did it for good reason. If he would have disconected the stones Telford would still be on their side and they would of eventually made it on board anyway. If there is 1 mole rest assured there are others.
6. Rush said it himself its not baseless.1. Except it took them three years to find this one, and naquadria planets don't just go on trees. It was their one chance.
2. No, just ignoring a point which has nothing to do with the issue at hand.
3. The situation was set the moment Rush got back on-board. Young would have got them killed.
4. Because he did it on purpose, right?
5. *bzzz* Dead wrong. The Alliance couldn't get their program to work. They never would have made it. One mole is all they had and that was perfectly clear.
6. Rush said nothing of the sort. You're twisting his words. He said that stopping the ship too much would cause damage to the drives. He had to leave the drives active long enough not to damage them. Again, baseless accusation, which are taken from a wholesale misinterpretation of a very black and white statement.

Shadow_7
October 9th, 2010, 10:02 AM
I'd rather have a rational actor at the helm any day of the week than someone driven by their emotions. I like Young. I do think he is doing his best but he consistently lets his emotions rule. That's a very bad trait in a commander. If I were O'Neill and I believed Telford was really unbrainwashed I'd probably releave Young and put Telford in command with Young as his XO.

Well the unemotional commander would intentionally get you killed because you're a negative influence on morale. Not because it's the right thing to do. Or because there's any reason why you shouldn't be killed. It's the emotional commander that's going to do everything in his power to keep you alive, even if it means others have to sacrifice too much to do so. Not to say that any one life is more important than others. But you want a guy who's at least going to try and save your life, if he's given a choice of that nature. Rush isn't that person, neither is Wray. Rush in charge looses a shuttle. Wray in charge, we took a vote, mass suicide it is. So say we all. Oh, we're under attack, let me consult with earth first. Telford in charge, they're the enemy. You, go strap a nuke to your chest and jump out an airlock without a suit, that's an order. Young is the man, even if you don't like him. Otherwise... We're all dead.

Blackhole
October 9th, 2010, 10:59 AM
I think it's that. Rush is not really after the power just to be in charge, for being in charge. All he seems to want is the right person in that position who'll let him do his work, in the way he wants to do it.

The problems between Young and Rush just got renewed after Young's decision not to disconnect the stones in "Subversion". From Rush's point of view it must look like Young tried by all means to save one of his old buddies, Telford, who turned out to be a traitor, and by doing so, risking not only his life, but also the life of everybody else's on board that ship. I think the opening scene with Rush going through the torture again was a reminder of that. Normally people don't forget very easy such an event, and Rush is not an exception to that. And this episode is indeed the aftermath of what started in "Subversion".

I think your assessment of Rush's view of Young is correct. He views him as emotionally unstable and not fit for command. In crisis situations I completely agree with this assessment. I think Young should be replaced probably with Telford. All Telford's actions while brainwashed shouldn't be held against him as they weren't against Teal'c.

I disagree with you about Rush not wanting the power. It is true Rush is a different person since the Icarus base but he still is arrogant. Solely controlling Destiny is far too much for any one man and Rush has no business doing so. Rush's decision to take control of Destiny confirms Young's earlier fears about him that he isn't to be trusted. The views that Rush and Young initially held for each other have been confirmed. Young isn't fit for command and Rush when left to his own devices will pursue his own agenda and isn't to be trusted.

morsu
October 10th, 2010, 09:58 PM
Whos saying he handed it over? HE WAS TAKEN CAPTIVE! Kind of hard to not have something in your posession taken.

The point is he should not have had it on him in the first PLace. The stone should have been left on the ship.
Goes to show that Rush only thinks about himself and not the Consequences of his actions down the line and how it will effect the rest of the crew.

morsu
October 10th, 2010, 10:07 PM
I disagree with you about Rush not wanting the power. It is true Rush is a different person since the Icarus base but he still is arrogant. Solely controlling Destiny is far too much for any one man and Rush has no business doing so. Rush's decision to take control of Destiny confirms Young's earlier fears about him that he isn't to be trusted. The views that Rush and Young initially held for each other have been confirmed. Young isn't fit for command and Rush when left to his own devices will pursue his own agenda and isn't to be trusted.

I think people are Judging Young a bit to harshly, It is easy to make assesments after the fact with the benefit of 20, 20 hindsight.
But the fact is, he is the commander until removed by his superiors.

Everyone including myself thinks of Jack O'Neill as a Legend and lets not forget he made some bad desicions as well.
Everyone makes mistakes.

morsu
October 10th, 2010, 10:14 PM
I dont agree with where the Writters are going with the Characters.
There making them a bit to dark for my liking.

The thing that made SG1 So good was the crew worked as a team and yes they had thier occasional disagreements but for the hole they say eye to eye.

It was only the ouside Characters which were Dark and Decieving.
I think they need to sort this crap out soon or they risk loosing viewers.

Just my Opinion.

garhkal
October 11th, 2010, 01:08 AM
The point is he should not have had it on him in the first PLace. The stone should have been left on the ship.
Goes to show that Rush only thinks about himself and not the Consequences of his actions down the line and how it will effect the rest of the crew.

Back then, i agree. BUT after human, i think he is thinking about the consequences.

Ser Scot A Ellison
October 11th, 2010, 05:44 AM
morsu,


1. Got them stranded there.

I agree, no argument there, however there does appear to be some weak justification for Rush's actions.


2. Tried to frame Young.

Absolutely no argument there. Rush was wrong. However, Rush's actions didn't justify Young's response.


3. Manipulated stupid Wray into staging a Mutiny.

I think they went about it the wrong way but the action was not without justification. Young's leadership at that point was becoming increasingly erratic. Young was showing his prediliction for allowing his emotions to overstep his rationality.


4. Handed over A stone to the Smurfs.

There is no evidence for this. All stones in the case they brought with them are accounted for. Accepting, for purposes of argument this is true, the smurfs wouldn't have had access if Young hadn't stranded Rush in the first place.


5. Got the Lucian alliance on board.

With Young's collusion and approval for putting a man into the field without training to resist torture. Further, Young could have ended the situation by turning off the damn pedistal for the stones and gotten Rush back at any point after Telford was de-brainwashed.


6. Now he is witholding information about the Bridge and possibly Screwing up the Drives.

Yup, Rush is screwing the pooch on this one. He's also possibly mentally unstable himself now.

Kaiphantom
October 11th, 2010, 04:05 PM
Yup, Rush is screwing the pooch on this one. He's also possibly mentally unstable himself now.

I disagree. The reason he stopped the ship was to give Scott and Co a chance at rescue, so we can drop the "damage the drives" bit as a negative against him. Hell, the normal logical thing for Rush to do would be to accept Scott and Co. as acceptable sacrifices and not risk damaging the ship. If he had done that, I think more people would have come down harshly on him.

As far as withholding information about the bridge, it's not entirely without justification. Young already let the LA take over once. If Rush knew about the bridge before, he would have had a place with which to take command of the ship away from the LA. Anyone he tells about the bridge, is a risk that for next time, if they get invaded. The next invaders would have control of the bridge. Rush doesn't think Young can be trusted with that information, and I'm hard-pressed to deny that. Young has shown some spectacular errors in judgment lately, letting emotion override reason.

However, having said that, I do think he should tell them. It might not be the most logical thing, but Rush should be open about it. He can't keep it a secret forever, and once people find out, it'll make them trust him less. It'll hurt more in the long run. But of course, that is the essence of why people make bad decisions; the short term effect is good.

General Jumper One
October 11th, 2010, 04:11 PM
I disagree. The reason he stopped the ship was to give Scott and Co a chance at rescue, so we can drop the "damage the drives" bit as a negative against him. Hell, the normal logical thing for Rush to do would be to accept Scott and Co. as acceptable sacrifices and not risk damaging the ship. If he had done that, I think more people would have come down harshly on him.

As far as withholding information about the bridge, it's not entirely without justification. Young already let the LA take over once. If Rush knew about the bridge before, he would have had a place with which to take command of the ship away from the LA. Anyone he tells about the bridge, is a risk that for next time, if they get invaded. The next invaders would have control of the bridge. Young doesn't think Young can be trusted with that information, and I'm hard-pressed to deny that. Young has shown some spectacular errors in judgment lately, letting emotion override reason.

However, having said that, I do think he should tell them. It might not be the most logical thing, but Rush should be open about it. He can't keep it a secret forever, and once people find out, it'll make them trust him less. It'll hurt more in the long run. But of course, that is the essence of why people make bad decisions; the short term effect is good.

Young doesn't think Young and be trusted with that info...

garhkal
October 12th, 2010, 03:57 AM
Error not withstanding, i agree, that in Rush's mind (and mine) young is at the mo too unstable to be given the info on the bridge. Perhaps in a few eps when/if he calms himself down he will be told.

Kaiphantom
October 12th, 2010, 08:15 AM
Young doesn't think Young and be trusted with that info...

Haha, minor error. Edited my post.

Gollumpus
October 12th, 2010, 07:49 PM
Error not withstanding, i agree, that in Rush's mind (and mine) young is at the mo too unstable to be given the info on the bridge. Perhaps in a few eps when/if he calms himself down he will be told.

And Rush IS stable?

One of the things which is working negatively on Young is the pressure he has of trying his damnest to get everyone home (including the "stable" Rush who stranded them on Destiny to begin with).

If the information was out that the bridge had been discovered, and access had been gained, that would take a lot of pressure off of everyone's minds, including Young's. The crew would start to feel that there was some hope of actually getting home, which would mean they would be a lot less crabby, which would mean that they would likely co-operate better with one another, which likely means they would be putting less pressure on Young to solve all of their problems... and he would be less inclined to try to shield everyone by putting so much pressure on himself, which means that RUSH IS EXACERBATING THE SITUATION FOR EVERYONE BY KEEPING HIS MOUTH SHUT.

Both Young and Rush like to "control" things. Young takes control to protect, but not just from physical harm (like from the LA) but also from emotional or psychological harm. He takes that pressure on to his own shoulders and carries it "for the good of the crew". Rush takes control of things because Rush has trust issues. He does not trust that others can do things as well as he (true for the most part, yet Rush could be more effective with the help of others as we have seen) and he does not trust that he will be able to follow his research into Destiny's workings and purpose. This is his primary reason for not telling anyone about the bridge. One's issues are related to the good of the group, the other is completely and absolutely selfish.

Once again the Evil Genius who screwed things up for everyone is continuing to screw it up, brilliantly. And he will likely follow his usual plan of operation which is to blame someone else when things go badly. Great actor. Great character. Would you really want to be stuck on that ship with him?


regards,
G.

Ser Scot A Ellison
October 13th, 2010, 04:07 AM
Gollumpus,

If you think Rush is the "evil mad scientist" I really think you are missing the point of this show. No one is "Teh Eviel". Everyone is acting with their own motivations for what they believe are everyone's best interests. As such there are conflicts because not everyone agrees. This doesn't mean Bob wears a white hat and is a good guy while Jane wheres a black hat and is the bad guy. That's boring storytelling. I'm glad it's not what is going on here.

garhkal
October 13th, 2010, 06:06 AM
But i do agree with him that the info of the bridge getting out would at least put a lot of 'issues' on the back burner..

Gollumpus
October 13th, 2010, 09:07 AM
Gollumpus,

If you think Rush is the "evil mad scientist" I really think you are missing the point of this show. No one is "Teh Eviel". Everyone is acting with their own motivations for what they believe are everyone's best interests. As such there are conflicts because not everyone agrees. This doesn't mean Bob wears a white hat and is a good guy while Jane wheres a black hat and is the bad guy. That's boring storytelling. I'm glad it's not what is going on here.

Rush's new look by the middle of the season:

http://www.comicartcollective.com/artImages/97DDEBBC-3048-77F0-11B9E76962571E40.jpg

Trust me, it's coming.

regards,
G.

Ser Scot A Ellison
October 13th, 2010, 01:57 PM
Gollumpus,

I wish there was a giant eye roll emoticon.

:P

garhkal
October 14th, 2010, 05:33 AM
Well, ith the lack of razors.. i can see him getting a mustache

Shadow_7
October 14th, 2010, 08:09 PM
I'm kind of surprised they don't have a barber yet. Where's Nelix when you need him? I mean, they have the HR lady, the chef, the damsel, the... Why no barber? Was one of the expedition supplies a crate of nair?

morbosfist
October 14th, 2010, 09:47 PM
I'm kind of surprised they don't have a barber yet. Where's Nelix when you need him? I mean, they have the HR lady, the chef, the damsel, the... Why no barber? Was one of the expedition supplies a crate of nair?Watch "Sabotage". Becker took that job.

Shadow_7
October 14th, 2010, 10:51 PM
So Becker is Nelix. And that tater tot surprise is boiled hair.

Kenton-Atlantis
October 14th, 2010, 10:53 PM
Neelix lol that was funny !!!! I agree the Info on the Bridge needs to stay away for a bit i cant watch the new episode till tomorrow on space so pumped !!!

garhkal
October 15th, 2010, 03:37 AM
So Becker is Nelix. And that tater tot surprise is boiled hair.

Na.. what do you think the turds go to..

Sarikali
January 14th, 2011, 10:45 AM
Young might not have a PHD to his name but he is a seasoned campaigner with a lot of experience and a person with his experience can always tell when someone is full of **** and trying to conceal something.

Which (if you'll remember) is what backfires in the episode (Water).

RUSH: Probably about ... less than forty percent of their original design capacity.
YOUNG (chuckling): Think I can't tell when somebody just pulls a number out of his ass?
RUSH: What?!
WALLACE: Uh, I actually pulled that number out of my ass. He's not making it up.

For a good part of season 1, Rush is being sincere and trying his best to come up with solutions for a crew that hates him and isn't even shy about letting him know.
Alot of times Rush "finds out something" on the spot and then people think he's know it all along and blame him for not telling them earlier. (End of Light, Malice etc..) It's so unfair. It makes me cringe mentally inside because I've been in those situations alot and maybe some of you also.
----
I personally think that Rush used Chloe to figure out the master code.

She seems to be the only other person on board that trusts him (despite what happened to her father at the beggining), agrees with him and works in tandem with some of his work. If not just because he saved her from the blue-aliens but also because they've actually talked, comforted each other as actual human beings do.

He's also shown that he doesn't want to harm others unnecessarilly, and he is forward with his intentions in many situations (Divided).

Both of them (Rush and Chloe) seem to be linked somehow.