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GateWorld
September 19th, 2010, 12:50 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/s2/203.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/graphics/203.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">UNIVERSE SEASON TWO</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/s2/203.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">AWAKENING</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 203</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
<I>Destiny</I> encounters an Ancient seeder ship, which may hold the key to getting the crew home. But they soon find that the ship is not unoccupied.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/s2/203.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

General Jumper One
October 12th, 2010, 06:59 PM
i am really starting to not like Rush, first Riley then Telford

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
October 12th, 2010, 07:00 PM
I agree it's so wrong.

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
October 12th, 2010, 07:01 PM
So do you guys think the LA will hit earth?

Replicator Todd
October 12th, 2010, 07:02 PM
i am really starting to not like Rush, first Riley then Telford

I 'm started to view Rush as my favorite character on the show alongside Chloe and TJ, Telford was growing on me alot too.....I hope he get to see him again somehow. I loved the episode though!

Carter's Boy
October 12th, 2010, 07:03 PM
it could have been so much cooler, fine not tons of power but how about letting them get at least all the reserves full and maybe one reg tank full... still at 40% reserve max poer after sun trip , right?

new tech

seeing a stargate actually being built
more exploring seed ship


kinda dropped the ball

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
October 12th, 2010, 07:03 PM
Telford was my favorite character the moment he shot kiva and became a USAF Officer again.

FoX-1028
October 12th, 2010, 07:04 PM
Noooooooooo!!!! Telford! damn this keeps getting interesting...
Telford in the seeder ship with new aliens and the mystery of Chloe and the blue aliens...
Yesssssssss! :D

Briangate78
October 12th, 2010, 07:04 PM
There is going to be some head-butting if Young finds out what Rush has been up to. lol.

Vanek26
October 12th, 2010, 07:05 PM
I am very mad. I liked Telford a lot.

I don't care if LDP filmed other episodes

And I think they should either have connected to Earth and lost it, or gotten closer to connecting.

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
October 12th, 2010, 07:05 PM
So how does Telford make it back considering he's in seizure!

Replicator Todd
October 12th, 2010, 07:06 PM
Telford was my favorite character the moment he shot kiva and became a USAF Officer again.

I miss Kiva. :(

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
October 12th, 2010, 07:09 PM
I miss Kiva. :(

I don't. Nor do I miss her enforcer mr.clean or Dannic.

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
October 12th, 2010, 07:09 PM
Hey what did Telford mean by "can't blame me for trying?"

General Jumper One
October 12th, 2010, 07:11 PM
why didn't Rush stop the jump?

fluxcapacitor
October 12th, 2010, 07:11 PM
Damn good episode! They keep getting better. Was really getting into the LDP character. And rush, oh rush. How can you keep doing these things and really how long until someone finally trails him to the bridge? Unless he finds an alternative place to show people he was sneaking off to i can't see his frequent disappearing act to last too long. Of course, who knows what else we may come upon . . .

Briangate78
October 12th, 2010, 07:12 PM
Good episode, some nice exploration, got to see where babies er um Stargates come from. Little Alien guy is cool, and they are obviously smart/advanced aliens, and should be interesting what happens to Telford.

So we now need a nick name for these guys.

morbosfist
October 12th, 2010, 07:12 PM
Man, I'm usually something of a defender of Rush, but even I have trouble not calling foul on this one. Under the wire, I admit, but c'mon. He nearly had it. Odds are the aliens would have undone his efforts, but still, Rush didn't know that.

On the plus side, this ship has got to be FTL-capable and these aliens do know what they're doing. They might want to catch up. And they're sooooo cute for bug people.

Orion Antreas
October 12th, 2010, 07:12 PM
Very good episode. The 'Browns' were very interesting, and they came off as pretty cool. I didn't see them being evil, but instead simply have their own purpose with the Seeder Ship. I think we will see them again later down the road.

Also, the scene where Scott offered some food to the alien, it really came off as old Stargate to me. It was a very nice moment.

I need to watch the episode again. I missed a few scenes, but overall, I think this is the best episode so far of season 2. I'm gonna give it a 9/10.

jelgate
October 12th, 2010, 07:13 PM
If Brian was here he would say the exploring a ship like this one is classic Stargate.

Rather that is true or not I liked it. I know that is no surprise coming from me but it was interesting from plot and character perspectives. The plot was flash if you will. It was to show the gate seeding and the possibility of dialing home and to show another potential hostile alien. But like many episodes of SGU I feel this is more about the character involved with little things like Chloe's rapid healing powers to the big thing of Telford risking his life to save the rest of Destiny. I think Telford makes an interesting comparassion for Rush in both always will make the sacrifice of the greater good but Telford is willing to sacrifice his own life something Rush seems to lack. Speaking of Rush the ending speaks of more villianification of him. I kind of like how the hallucination Gloria points it out, was it really for Destiny or was it so Rush didn't have to go to home? I have my theories but its all specualtion either way?

The B plot of the Lucian Alliance continues with TJ getting some sympathy. This one fell kind of flat. Its about time a decision was reached about these people

FoX-1028
October 12th, 2010, 07:13 PM
Now that im thinking...

The new aliens have something planned with the seeder ship? Why they reversed the transfer..? Maybe they need energy to make an F.T.L. jump or something?

themeatcleaver
October 12th, 2010, 07:13 PM
Hey what did Telford mean by "can't blame me for trying?"

he wanted to get home that badly...

poor young is still drinking

stargate factory is badass.

telford makes friends with the shorties i'd have to think... no way they can kill him off

frakking rush is pissing me off forreal.

i think young is on to rush.

Replicator Todd
October 12th, 2010, 07:14 PM
So we now need a nick name for these guys.

Furlings :cool:

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
October 12th, 2010, 07:14 PM
Very good episode. The 'Browns' were very interesting, and they came off as pretty cool. I didn't see them being evil, but instead simply have their own purpose with the Seeder Ship. I think we will see them again later down the road.

Also, the scene where Scott offered some food to the alien, it really came off as old Stargate to me. It was a very nice moment.

I need to watch the episode again. I missed a few scenes, but overall, I think this is the best episode so far of season 2. I'm gonna give it a 9/10.


Like when Daniel gave food to kasuf in the movie. Yeah it did come off as old stargate.

CJ Master
October 12th, 2010, 07:14 PM
Episode wasn't as amazing as last week, but I loved the new alien species. I still don't get why that one collapsed, though.

Kaiphantom
October 12th, 2010, 07:14 PM
i am really starting to not like Rush, first Riley then Telford

While you're welcome to your opinion, I'm a bit tired of the Rush bashing. There are perfectly valid things you can knock him for, but this ain't it. Riley wasn't totally his fault; Young gave the order for them to go to the planet, and it was a risk worth taking, considering their low supplies. **** happens, and regardless of whether the shuttle would have landed safely, there was always the chance there would have been something dangerous on the planet and someone could have died.

Remember back, not so long ago, when Young had the choice to sacrifice Telford to save the crew and didn't? Yeah, that worked out real well. Everyone agrees that was stupid of Young. So, either you agree that sometimes a sacrifice is necessary, or you don't. In a cynical universe, an idealist (who believes you can save everyone) is a naive idiot. Therefore, Rush is acting perfectly inline with the atmosphere demanded by this series universe.

Will make a general episode post later on, after I let everything roll around in my head a bit, but just had to get this bit out first.

jelgate
October 12th, 2010, 07:15 PM
why didn't Rush stop the jump?

It would look kind suspicious if Destiny redocked. He doesn't want anyone to know he can pilot Destiny

jelgate
October 12th, 2010, 07:17 PM
he wanted to get home that badly...

poor young is still drinking



Its been a tough week. He lost his child, a soldier,and a close friend.

I'd be drinking too.

themeatcleaver
October 12th, 2010, 07:18 PM
Its been a tough week. He lost his child, a soldier,and a close friend.

I'd be drinking too.

amen. hence the "poor young." guy deserves a drink or twelve

Orion Antreas
October 12th, 2010, 07:18 PM
Also, Young is beginning to annoy me. He was growing on me in season one, but towards the end of season one to now, he is coming off as being arrogant, ignorant, and I really think he is losing who he is. I know it was said he was gonna be battling his own demons in the beginning of season two. I really want to see where his character will go.

EDIT: And yes, I know he has gone through a lot, but he really began to change even before any of those major impacts occurred (loss of his child, Riley, etc.)

Skygate
October 12th, 2010, 07:21 PM
While you're welcome to your opinion, I'm a bit tired of the Rush bashing. There are perfectly valid things you can knock him for, but this ain't it. Riley wasn't totally his fault; Young gave the order for them to go to the planet, and it was a risk worth taking, considering their low supplies. **** happens, and regardless of whether the shuttle would have landed safely, there was always the chance there would have been something dangerous on the planet and someone could have died.

Didn't Young give the order to go because Rush lied to them about why Destiny locked out that planet?

the fifth man
October 12th, 2010, 07:21 PM
Great episode. These new aliens could be pretty interesting. Rush is definitely making a lot of bad decisions, and I can't wait to see what happens with Telford.

Replicator Todd
October 12th, 2010, 07:21 PM
Also, Young is beginning to annoy me. He was growing on me in season one, but towards the end of season one to now, he is coming off as being arrogant, ignorant, and I really think he is losing who he is. I know it was said he was gonna be battling his own demons in the beginning of season two. I really want to see where his character will go.

EDIT: And yes, I know he has gone through a lot, but he really began to change even before any of those major impacts occurred (loss of his child, Riley, etc.)

Young has annoyed me since the beginning, I like the character but I don't think he is fit to be leader.

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
October 12th, 2010, 07:22 PM
I hate to say this but do you think Telford was so insistant on staying there cause if he reversed the transfer and that if they made a connection to earth Telford would get his command?

General Jumper One
October 12th, 2010, 07:25 PM
While you're welcome to your opinion, I'm a bit tired of the Rush bashing.

I'm not bashing him, I like Rush...they can't kill Telford he is a main cast member

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
October 12th, 2010, 07:25 PM
So young says homeworld command is expecting us does that mean that the stargate is at the pentagon?

jelgate
October 12th, 2010, 07:26 PM
I hate to say this but do you think Telford was so insistant on staying there cause if he reversed the transfer and that if they made a connection to earth Telford would get his command?

No I don't. It was just to keep those on Destiny alive.

jelgate
October 12th, 2010, 07:26 PM
I'm not bashing him, I like Rush...they can't kill Telford he is a main cast member

Telford is recurring not main

Uncle Tobias
October 12th, 2010, 07:27 PM
Damn, that was good. Really liked Telford since he got rid of the brainwashing. Hope we see him again.

the fifth man
October 12th, 2010, 07:27 PM
No I don't. It was just to keep those on Destiny alive.

I agree. I think this real Telford is a pretty good guy. I really hope he finds his way back to Destiny soon.

themeatcleaver
October 12th, 2010, 07:29 PM
I agree. I think this real Telford is a pretty good guy. I really hope he finds his way back to Destiny soon.

If he does, it'll be with an army of little brown soldiers!

zainea13
October 12th, 2010, 07:29 PM
No I don't. It was just to keep those on Destiny alive.

I think that was definitely his first motive. But he might have seen that as a perk.

Kaiphantom
October 12th, 2010, 07:30 PM
Didn't Young give the order to go because Rush lied to them about why Destiny locked out that planet?

Destiny didn't really lock it out. It just didn't consider it an option because the gate wasn't working. In that light, Young had the same information Rush did. Young could have easily said: "Hmm, no gate, could be too dangerous. Let's all just sit here and not go." There would have been nothing Rush could have done about that. I suppose people would have still found a way to blame Rush for it, though.

Despite that, going to ANY planet is dangerous. It seems like people want to pin Riley's death on Rush because they hate him so much that everything just HAS to be his fault somehow, while completely ignoring the fact that Young gave the order. Young had the final say. Rush gave them a chance for supplies. A risk? Yes, but then again, everything is.

What would you pick? Sit there and starve, or go to the planet that has vegetation for a chance to get more food? I think you're answer will say very clearly whether Rush is to blame. Does he bear some responsibility for it? Yes. But people are making it sound like Rush deliberately killed the guy. Last I checked, that was done by someone else.

themeatcleaver
October 12th, 2010, 07:30 PM
side note: anyone else catch the symbol/logo they were looking at in one of those rooms? what was that?

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
October 12th, 2010, 07:31 PM
Everyone has motives. Some good some bad I'm just trying to figure out the LA motives.

General Jumper One
October 12th, 2010, 07:31 PM
side note: anyone else catch the symbol/logo they were looking at in one of those rooms? what was that?

nope

jelgate
October 12th, 2010, 07:32 PM
side note: anyone else catch the symbol/logo they were looking at in one of those rooms? what was that?
The Interuniversal (yeah I made that word up) sign for Radioactive

jelgate
October 12th, 2010, 07:33 PM
Everyone has motives. Some good some bad I'm just trying to figure out the LA motives.

Like everyone else control her. Now that is impossible I think they will settle being a part of something

themeatcleaver
October 12th, 2010, 07:33 PM
The Interuniversal (yeah I made that word up) sign for Radioactive

Hmm, interesting, cant wait to see it again

interuniversal.. shouldnt it be intra universal, or intergalactic even? :)

zainea13
October 12th, 2010, 07:34 PM
what time was it? i'll look for it on the 11 o'clock re-run

themeatcleaver
October 12th, 2010, 07:35 PM
what time was it? i'll look for it on the 11 o'clock re-run

honestly couldn't tell you but i think it was about halfway through

Gallienus
October 12th, 2010, 07:39 PM
I rather enjoyed this episode too. Unfortunate to see Telford left behind but I suspected something like that might happen when he decided to stay behind alone. Rush is starting to look like a man who's in over his head these days. It seems even he's having doubts about his own motivations and frankly I can't understand what he's trying to accomplish. Just what does he hope to gain by keeping his discovery secret? Like others have noted it's only going to make Young angrier when the time comes.

I also found myself a little unclear, did Rush "order" Destiny to stop at the Seeder ship? That seemed to be what was implied, it also seems he knows enough about the systems to recognize the object within range was a ship rather than a planet. That further raises the question as to why the ship was there in the first place and why it had a crew of little alien guys, apparently in suspended animation, that just happened to awaken when people started poking around and turning things on. If anything this episode opens up a lot of questions and hopefully there will be some answers down the line.

I still wish they would veto the musical montages to end the episodes. They don't do anything for me and don't particularly add to the overall ambiance. Is this sort of thing popular in other shows that I don't watch I wonder?

At any rate I've been very pleased with the start to season 2. I'll be waiting to hear what the ratings are, hopefully we'll see some improvement there. Oh and Young certainly seems to be setting up a situation where the remaining LA personages are going to become disaffected rapidly. We'll just have to see where that goes.

scelby
October 12th, 2010, 07:43 PM
There was so much happening in this episode. I can't wait to find out what's going on with Chloe. It's too bad about Telford, I hope he doesn't die horribly. I was really hoping that he would eventually take command from Young. Young did okay here but generally he is just horribly incompetent.

the fifth man
October 12th, 2010, 07:47 PM
There was so much happening in this episode. I can't wait to find out what's going on with Chloe. It's too bad about Telford, I hope he doesn't die horribly. I was really hoping that he would eventually take command from Young. Young did okay here but generally he is just horribly incompetent.

I think that is going a bit too far. IMO, Young does the best he can under the circumstances. I doubt anyone else could really do much better.

Kaiphantom
October 12th, 2010, 07:49 PM
I think that is going a bit too far. IMO, Young does the best he can under the circumstances. I doubt anyone else could really do much better.

Jack says hi!

HaMm3r
October 12th, 2010, 07:51 PM
While I was never a big fan of Telford, I hated to see him stranded like that. However, considering that he's aboard a ship filled with nearly brand new stargates, it's possible he might be able to use one to dial Destiny. She should drop out of FTL to accept the connection, and given the amount of power the seeder ship supposedly has, distance wouldn't really be a problem. Might explain how he gets back for those future eps previously mentioned.

lvalen18
October 12th, 2010, 07:53 PM
i Saw a Picture of the Smurf Aliens and the new lil brown ones.... They Seem Similar... Ones Taller an blue but their facial features have similarities...

And they seem to know ancient... They where shown using one of the terminals to reverse the Power flow... They couldn't exactly just guess what to do to be able to lock down the ship.

themeatcleaver
October 12th, 2010, 07:56 PM
While I was never a big fan of Telford, I hated to see him stranded like that. However, considering that he's aboard a ship filled with nearly brand new stargates, it's possible he might be able to use one to dial Destiny. She should drop out of FTL to accept the connection, and given the amount of power the seeder ship supposedly has, distance wouldn't really be a problem. Might explain how he gets back for those future eps previously mentioned.

brilliant!

CJ Master
October 12th, 2010, 07:58 PM
I like how there's a lot more effects in Universe then there used to be in the other series. They're really spending their money, I can tell.

themeatcleaver
October 12th, 2010, 08:00 PM
I like how there's a lot more effects in Universe then there used to be in the other series. They're really spending their money, I can tell.

for real! this is the most beautiful show! be sure to check out the stargate universe imagery appreciation thread if you haven't already! its absolutely fantastic

Pharaoh Atem
October 12th, 2010, 08:02 PM
Noooooooooooooooo I liked Telford :(

I want rush dead now

Replicator Todd
October 12th, 2010, 08:04 PM
I want rush dead now

Wow, it seem everyone is growing to dislike Rush more while I am growing to liking Rush even more! :p

And I liked Telford as well.

jelgate
October 12th, 2010, 08:04 PM
Wow, it seem everyone is growing to dislike Rush more while I am growing to liking Rush even more! :p

And I liked Telford as well.

Two deaths in two episodes because of Rush does that:P

Skiznot
October 12th, 2010, 08:06 PM
Yes the SGU I've loved and missed since the incursion story line started is back. So glad we are back to the sense of wonder with some of the coolest Aliens I have ever seen on TV and more pieces of the Ancient/Destiny Puzzle. I love the design of the seeder ship and how it fits with destiny making a new shape. Just my initial reactions. Oh and in the debate on Rush, yep totally blame him for Riley and now this. His selfishness in trying to keep control is hurting people left and right. Of course I still love the character, he's just more or less the villian of the show and he is the best Stargate villian I have seen.

Replicator Todd
October 12th, 2010, 08:06 PM
Two deaths in two episodes because of Rush does that:P

Indeed.....

ns2
October 12th, 2010, 08:14 PM
I think we'll see Telford again if the little dudes wanted to kill him they would have killed everyone else

Pharaoh Atem
October 12th, 2010, 08:16 PM
Two deaths in two episodes because of Rush does that:P

He's all for himself now. He doesn't care who he sacrifices

scelby
October 12th, 2010, 08:21 PM
Forgot to add that I had a nice laugh at Scott and Greer's conversation about Park and how Greer really injured his hamstring. Too bad there were no scenes of this.

Captain James
October 12th, 2010, 08:23 PM
I like the new aliens and wondering what exactly happening to Chloe.
I also wonder what going to happen to Telford now being with aliens.

Good episode

ns2
October 12th, 2010, 08:24 PM
Does anyone think the whole war with Lucian Alliace part of the SG1 movie script

themeatcleaver
October 12th, 2010, 08:28 PM
Does anyone think the whole war with Lucian Alliace part of the SG1 movie script

I can only hope! Either way we better get to see some hot 304 action!

Skygate
October 12th, 2010, 08:28 PM
Destiny didn't really lock it out. It just didn't consider it an option because the gate wasn't working. In that light, Young had the same information Rush did. Young could have easily said: "Hmm, no gate, could be too dangerous. Let's all just sit here and not go." There would have been nothing Rush could have done about that. I suppose people would have still found a way to blame Rush for it, though.

Despite that, going to ANY planet is dangerous. It seems like people want to pin Riley's death on Rush because they hate him so much that everything just HAS to be his fault somehow, while completely ignoring the fact that Young gave the order. Young had the final say. Rush gave them a chance for supplies. A risk? Yes, but then again, everything is.

What would you pick? Sit there and starve, or go to the planet that has vegetation for a chance to get more food? I think you're answer will say very clearly whether Rush is to blame. Does he bear some responsibility for it? Yes. But people are making it sound like Rush deliberately killed the guy. Last I checked, that was done by someone else.

Rush is still the reason Destiny stopped at that planet in the first place.

And the resaon for Riley's situation was because they were forced to use the shuttle instead of the gate, a gate that Destiny had locked out on a plantet it was supposed to skip. Not to mention Rush overlooked the readings on dangerous the planet was, resulting in the shuttle's crash. Yes, going to planets will always be dangerous, but thanks to Rush, there was an element of danger that didn't need to be there and it resulted in a loss of life of a valued crew member and the loss of a vital resource, being the shuttle.

SSJPabs
October 12th, 2010, 08:35 PM
This episode continues to confirm my opinion that Young is a piss-poor commander who never the less, is politically sensitive enough to deal with threats to his personal power.

ED: Well maybe not piss poor. But definitely on the low end of average.

Orion475
October 12th, 2010, 08:37 PM
I'm sure Stargate Revolution had to with the 9th Chevron and the Lucian Alliance.

I loved the part when Greer and Scott showed Rush the Gate Factory. The music played it was like in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1EPVbPFOa4.

The Gate Factory scene and music reminded me of the music and scene when Cameron Mitchell was staring at the Stargate in the beginning of SG-1's "Avalon"

Stargate has truly matured. It's only appropriate to have the franchise grow in this direction.

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
October 12th, 2010, 08:37 PM
This episode continues to confirm my opinion that Young is a piss-poor commander who never the less, is politically sensitive enough to deal with threats to his personal power.

ED: Well maybe not piss poor. But definitely on the low end of average.

And he's supposed to be the jack o'neill of ten years ago. So in 1999, what was o'neill like?

themeatcleaver
October 12th, 2010, 08:39 PM
And he's supposed to be the jack o'neill of ten years ago. So in 1999, what was o'neill like?

he was the effing man and dont you forget it!

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
October 12th, 2010, 08:42 PM
he was the effing man and dont you forget it!

He was also a damn good leader.

Vanek26
October 12th, 2010, 08:42 PM
Like when Daniel gave food to kasuf in the movie. Yeah it did come off as old stargate.

Or when Daniel gave food to the Unas.

MizuhoChan
October 12th, 2010, 08:43 PM
*Spoilers for "Cloverdale".

I'd just like to point out that Rush hasn't killed Telford. Lou Diamond Phillips is confirmed for more SGU this season according to imdb, so he'll be back in two weeks in "Cloverdale".

mizzoueng
October 12th, 2010, 08:44 PM
The gate factory was awesome. I hope we eventually get to see one in action, there appeared to be a large door on the underside that could be how the finished gates get off the line and down to the planet.

As for the seeder itself, the shape was similar. It didn't seem to be armed, at least there weren't many visable guns. The front of the seeder seemed to come to a point like Destiny, but it was more like rails, maybe they use a rail gun type system to deliver the gates to the planet. Or mabye the seeder rail guns the gate location to flatten it and hopefully prevent future growth and stabilize the area for long term viability.

I thought the pods looked "Ancienty" with the curved lines and all. I don't think its pure Ancient tech, I think the Browns made some hybrid tech to allow for long term exploration of the ship and its destinations. Their exoskeletons had a human feel to it as well, the skulls looked human from certain angles, again, maybe a hybrid that was made by the Blues to better understand Ancient tech by combining ANcient DNA found on the Seeder with theirs?

I hope we see Telford again, but showing up in the Seeder just in time to help defend Destiny. I really want to see how the star drive looks on the Seeders since they were supposedly made so many years before the Destiny.

themeatcleaver
October 12th, 2010, 08:48 PM
.


hey mr. i have 2 posts... spoiler tags exist for a reason dude.

EvenstarSRV
October 12th, 2010, 08:49 PM
Pretty good episode. It was nice to see some follow-up to the dangling threads like Chloe's condition, TJ's emotions about her lost baby, and the LA, though those scenes felt a bit jarring the way they were interspersed with the scenes from the seeder ship. The new aliens were rather cute, I hope we get to see them again, especially since they appeared to be explorers/researchers.

Re Rush's actions, I noticed that he overheard Telford saying that he would take over if Young didn't start shaping up. I'm thinking that while Rush doesn't think Young is fit for command, he'd probably prefer to him to Telford since he's used to getting around Young when he wants to.

I am looking forward to the showdown when everyone finds out that Rush has found the bridge, because I hope Young or someone finally decides to follow him when he leaves instead of just constantly wondering where he went off to.

MizuhoChan
October 12th, 2010, 08:49 PM
Maybe so, but I don't consider it spoilers. And I've been a member longer than you, I just don't like to post.

Orion Antreas
October 12th, 2010, 08:50 PM
I'd just like to point out that Rush hasn't killed Telford. Lou Diamond Phillips is confirmed for more SGU this season according to imdb, so he'll be back in two weeks in "Cloverdale".

Spoilers, dude.

themeatcleaver
October 12th, 2010, 08:51 PM
Maybe so, but I don't consider it spoilers. And I've been a member longer than you, I just don't like to post.

You're posting info from future episodes NOT Awakening. Just put it in spoiler tags so we can decide whether or not to read it.

jelgate
October 12th, 2010, 08:52 PM
Maybe so, but I don't consider it spoilers. And I've been a member longer than you, I just don't like to post.

What you consider spoilers is irrelvent. Since its a plot point for a future episode its spoilish according to Gw and needs to be tagged

Commander Zelix
October 12th, 2010, 08:56 PM
Very good episode. Some mystery and suspense finally!! Nice to finally meet a seeder ship for the first time. Adding to the show mythology. Same as Rush questioning his "dream".

I also like how the aliens took back control of their ship. Using non lethal weapons to gain back the control room shows to us they could as well be a small alienSG1 team stuck in that ship and simply don't want to loose all the power.

I wonder what will happens to Chloe and Telford. The last scene where the gate ship aliens approach him was great and felt like the end of a "Lost" episode.

I like how Rush having control of the ship is playing out. With horrible consequences like death. Same as him not letting the people know he found a way to get them home.

I give it a 7/10

General Jumper One
October 12th, 2010, 08:57 PM
What you consider spoilers is irrelvent. Since its a plot point for a future episode its spoilish according to Gw and needs to be tagged

I agree, like I can't show some of my sigs, because they are spoilerish, although they are from the trailer

SSJPabs
October 12th, 2010, 09:00 PM
Season 2-3 right? Yeah he really got good in Season 3. He was pretty damn good. Maybe if he hadn't had Hammond over him he would have been like Young? That's kind of a scary thought. I miss Hammond. Also Don S. Davis, that man was class in every role I saw him. RIP.

As it was anyhow, I liked the episode quite well. It started a little slow but by the end it almost felt like a 2-parter so much had happened. Yet it didn't feel rushed. I like the tension over the Lucian remnant but I think they need to be able to give them small tasks to start proving themselves. Nothing like an away mission or anything but say one goes out with supervision or Ginn helps with the tech and is spied on by Eli or Rush etc. Of course I'd expect a betrayal eventually by one of them. But if it comes it'll be because of how they've been treated. Prisoners have no rights? Way to give over your moral high ground Colonel. Nice conversation between Chloe and Tamara, but I think Tamara should have gotten a little angrier over it. Liked the boney/booger aliens. Should be interesting about what happens to Chloe next week.

Well what can I say, I wanted to find out what happens next week.

zainea13
October 12th, 2010, 09:16 PM
I don't know why you all think Rush is so callous. In intervetion he was sorry that he was going to have to sacrifice parts of the crew.

In Aftermath he was hurt by the fact that he caused them to crash and ultimately riley to die. You can see in his face he was frustrated when he realized the shuttle would't make it. And was worried when they were out of contact.

In Awakening at the end he was clearly upset. Even if he was doing it for selfish reasons he was hurt by the decision he felt he had to make. And the last scene he is sitting in the chair, and what I get from it is that he is thinking "What am I doing!"

mparsons1981
October 12th, 2010, 09:21 PM
right just watching the episode now, great first seven and a half minutes,

but 2 things have annoyed me

1) Why do they suddenly all jump to the conclusion that its a seeder ship, they have no evidence of this,
2) As soon as Chloe turns up, i got annoyed with her weak ass female bonding crap.

themeatcleaver
October 12th, 2010, 09:21 PM
I don't know why you all think Rush is so callous. In intervetion he was sorry that he was going to have to sacrifice parts of the crew.

In Aftermath he was hurt by the fact that he caused them to crash and ultimately riley to die. You can see in his face he was frustrated when he realized the shuttle would't make it. And was worried when they were out of contact.

In Awakening at the end he was clearly upset. Even if he was doing it for selfish reasons he was hurt by the decision he felt he had to make. And the last scene he is sitting in the chair, and what I get from it is that he is thinking "What am I doing!"

To me, it's not that he's callous. It's that he has a whole crew of people that could be helping him in there to prevent tragedies like this from happening but because of his own personal greed/fear he refuses to share his knowledge. Personally I hope he gets another "Headbutt of Doom®" from Young when Young finds out what he's been doing.

themeatcleaver
October 12th, 2010, 09:23 PM
right just watching the episode now, great first seven and a half minutes,

but 2 things have annoyed me

1) Why do they suddenly all jump to the conclusion that its a seeder ship, they have no evidence of this,
2) As soon as Chloe turns up, i got annoyed with her weak ass female bonding crap.

1) they knew seeders existed, it was shaped like destiny.. what else would it have looked like to them?
2) Fair enough, I'm kind of thinking they're going to go somewhere with that storyline but no idea.

jelgate
October 12th, 2010, 09:27 PM
I don't know why you all think Rush is so callous. In intervetion he was sorry that he was going to have to sacrifice parts of the crew.

In Aftermath he was hurt by the fact that he caused them to crash and ultimately riley to die. You can see in his face he was frustrated when he realized the shuttle would't make it. And was worried when they were out of contact.

In Awakening at the end he was clearly upset. Even if he was doing it for selfish reasons he was hurt by the decision he felt he had to make. And the last scene he is sitting in the chair, and what I get from it is that he is thinking "What am I doing!"

Being sorry didn't stop him from doing it in Aftermath and Awakening. Their is always a choice in what he does. His choices killed 2 men.

mparsons1981
October 12th, 2010, 09:28 PM
13 mins into episode now,

2 more points -

1) I will be dissappointed if this goes the way of nasty hidden alien on ship has firefight, someone gets shot etc, not very original, i'm more interested in the ship itself

2) Redhead lucian alliance chick is really starting to annoy me.

Commander Zelix
October 12th, 2010, 09:32 PM
I would have ended the episode with the last Telford scene with the gate ship aliens approaching him, Lost style, but I sure would have found a way to put Chloe's legs before that last scene. :)

mparsons1981
October 12th, 2010, 09:33 PM
16mins in

I like Wray standing up to Young, but frankly i find the idea of the lucian alliance being some kind of threat to earth as laughable.

zainea13
October 12th, 2010, 09:36 PM
2) As soon as Chloe turns up, i got annoyed with her weak ass female bonding crap.

That was a needed part of the show. So far there has been very little attention to a very significant thing. It was good to see that in there.

zainea13
October 12th, 2010, 09:37 PM
16mins in

I like Wray standing up to Young, but frankly i find the idea of the lucian alliance being some kind of threat to earth as laughable.

Why? Even though the Alliance was played off in SG1 they were still very capable. Plus, now that the Ori is gone and it has been a couple years since then they could have built a very strong fleet.

Kaiphantom
October 12th, 2010, 09:37 PM
Rush is still the reason Destiny stopped at that planet in the first place.

And the resaon for Riley's situation was because they were forced to use the shuttle instead of the gate, a gate that Destiny had locked out on a plantet it was supposed to skip. Not to mention Rush overlooked the readings on dangerous the planet was, resulting in the shuttle's crash. Yes, going to planets will always be dangerous, but thanks to Rush, there was an element of danger that didn't need to be there and it resulted in a loss of life of a valued crew member and the loss of a vital resource, being the shuttle.

Right then, you didn't answer the question. Which means we both know what you would have answered would have vindicated Rush. You're right, everything is just too dangerous. They shouldn't have ever stepped through the gate because it was dangerous. Glad to see you would have never wanted SG-1 to have ever been made!

Anyway, on to my thoughts of the episode...

My initial thoughts are that the aliens aren't evil, per se. To them, they found the ship and these strange humans arrive and start taking power. What would you do? That's right, you'd stop them. They didn't kill Rush or Danning even when they could have. They simply reversed the transfer to get their power back. On another note: yet another bipedal humanoid looking alien that breathes oxygen and expels carbon dioxide. Crazy how there seems to be a lot of them.

JM said it was highly unlikely they'd come across a seed ship, so one wild theory I had was that wasn't a seed ship; rather, it was a ship the aliens made by studying a seed ship. A long shot theory that probably isn't true, though.

Young - The guy just doesn't learn. Through his actions, and lack of some, he's making the same mistakes that led to the mutiny of the civilians earlier. He's also making things worse. I don't begrudge the guy his drinks, but I wonder if it's affecting him. At any rate, this guy is no O'Neill. He's a dictator. He's already caused the death of Riley and now Telford. Hmm, two deaths in two episodes might make someone not like the guy!

Rush - I said to myself that if Gloria or Franklin ever appeared to Rush while there were other people around, it would confirm whether they were Rush's hallucinations or ship projections (or ancients). Since they haven't, I'm beginning to wonder more if they are ship projections. If Rush were crazy, Gloria would have appeared to him on the Seeder Ship. My opinion of him dropped slightly, since he didn't immediately tell people they could dial back to Earth, and logically speaking, keeping the bridge secret is a no-brainer bad idea anyway since such a secret will be discovered eventually. I understand his reasons why, but I wonder how long he thinks he can keep the charade up. Speaking of which...


Being sorry didn't stop him from doing it in Aftermath and Awakening. Their is always a choice in what he does. His choices killed 2 men.

Jel, most of the time I can at least understand where you're coming from, even if I don't agree. But this is just bad; time and time again you've had the evidence laid out showing exactly why Rush wasn't at fault. And yet you still cling to this without offering any proof. Repeating it over and over is a good way to convince yourself, and some of the weak-minded, but it doesn't prove a point to the more intellectual among us. The very fact that you want to count Telford as dead when he clearly isn't, shows a similar level of mental disconnect you want to accuse Rush of. Newsflash: Telford is still alive. And if you're keen enough to look up some spoilers, you find some surprising things.

Chloe's wound should have been addressed in the last episode; in fact, it would have been a better use of time for it, rather than the vocal montage or that Brody/Volker scene. But, I guess the writers/producers or whatever or more convinced they have to try and be hip and popular by continuing to crank out the music. I suppose it's understandable; having people pay you to advertise their music on your show must be bringing in some decent extra cash. Selling out is always profitable, so I don't begrudge TPTB for trying to make more money. They could pick better tracks, though, and be a bit more inventive about how they use the music, instead of a song at the end of almost every episode now.

As a result of the continuing montages, I'm afraid I can't support the show anymore by watching it on TV or telling my friends to watch it. I'll get it other ways as long as it's on, but I can't support it via ratings anymore. Of course, I'll be willing to continue to support it if they pledge to drastically minimize or discontinue the vocal montages, but I doubt that will happen; pride goeth before loss of viewers.

Last note: I still agree that an LA attack on Earth is laughable. There is no way they could muster enough ships to be a threat, UNLESS they found some secret advanced technology or some super weapon or something. They'd need a massive edge they do NOT have right now.[/QUOTE]

morbosfist
October 12th, 2010, 09:37 PM
That was a needed part of the show. So far there has been very little attention to a very significant thing. It was good to see that in there.

Agreed. TJ is taking this far too well on the surface. Someone needs to show concern.

fluxcapacitor
October 12th, 2010, 09:38 PM
It'll be interesting to see how the brown aliens (is that what we're calling them?) turn out. They don't seem to be bad at first glance. Sure they kicked our crew off, but technically they were there first so maybe they just didnt want us messing with things?

With Telford with them maybe they'll learn about us and appreciate us. maybe help us if the blue aliens come back?

Skygate
October 12th, 2010, 09:39 PM
Anyone find it a little funny how before this ep (post-Awakening spoiler)... "the LDP in futures eps" thing wouldn't have been considered a spoiler and that it was sort of common knowledge when people were checking IMDB for actor appearances? :D

mparsons1981
October 12th, 2010, 09:40 PM
23 mins,

I'm predicting telford gets killed... in about 20mins

mere earthling
October 12th, 2010, 09:44 PM
Very good episode. Some mystery and suspense finally!! Nice to finally meet a seeder ship for the first time. Adding to the show mythology. Same as Rush questioning his "dream".

I also like how the aliens took back control of their ship. Using non lethal weapons to gain back the control room shows to us they could as well be a small alienSG1 team stuck in that ship and simply don't want to loose all the power.

I wonder what will happens to Chloe and Telford. The last scene where the gate ship aliens approach him was great and felt like the end of a "Lost" episode.

I like how Rush having control of the ship is playing out. With horrible consequences like death. Same as him not letting the people know he found a way to get them home.

I give it a 7/10

I agree with you 100%, great episode.

I like seeing the consequences of Rushs' actions chip away at sanity, much in the same way Youngs' are chipping away at his. The parallels between that and their dislike for each other is affecting everyone, ultimately chipping them away literally.

themeatcleaver
October 12th, 2010, 09:45 PM
Anyone find it a little funny how before this ep (post-Awakening spoiler)... "the LDP in futures eps" thing wouldn't have been considered a spoiler and that it was sort of common knowledge when people were checking IMDB for actor appearances? :D

it just goes to show, you cant trust anything in SciFi! ;)

mparsons1981
October 12th, 2010, 09:49 PM
30mins in

What a shock the big happy happy dial home crap didnt work, what a suprise!

mparsons1981
October 12th, 2010, 09:52 PM
I have to say i think this is really stupid behaviour by young and eli pushing this dial home transfer of power crap.

They dont know about destiny.
They dont know about this new ship.
They have no idea about the aliens.

So yeah lets do something really clever like risking losing all our power like this. Where Mccay when you need him! No wonder Rush thinks they are all idiots.

mparsons1981
October 12th, 2010, 09:55 PM
So Young is 'not willing to risk anyones life' to get home.

What crap! He risked everyones life when he jumped on the plan to dial the gate without having a clue of what was going on!

Kaiphantom
October 12th, 2010, 09:56 PM
I have to say i think this is really stupid behaviour by young and eli pushing this dial home transfer of power crap.

They dont know about destiny.
They dont know about this new ship.
They have no idea about the aliens.

So yeah lets do something really clever like risking losing all our power like this. Where Mccay when you need him! No wonder Rush thinks they are all idiots.

You bring up good points. If everyone else around you acted like an idiot, you'd think less of their opinion and in their ability to make rational decisions, too. In that light, Rush is probably the most sane person aboard the ship. With Young causing the death of Riley, and being half the reason Telford was stranded (he did allow Telford to stay, rather than order him back), Wray telling POWs confidential information, I think I'm beginning to see Rush keeping the bridge secret as a smart move. Obviously, no one else can be trusted with the information, heh.

kronflux
October 12th, 2010, 09:56 PM
at first, I figured rush was stealing the seeder ship, when they lost contact with him, and the power transfer reversed. I guess I did somewhat judge him wrong, although he's hard to read at times.
my assumption about the aliens is one of two things. they are either a race who worked for the ancients in building and seeding the gates and the ship wasnt as automated as rush thought.
or, their own ship was damaged, and they took refuge in the seeder ship, and went into hibernation.
They don't seem very dominant, otherwise I think they might have tried to take over destiny as well. or not even allow the docking to begin with. disable the system entirely.

anyway, lets remember, rush can go back for telford anytime, as he controls destiny.
the gate manufacturing room was hot.

SciFiRick
October 12th, 2010, 10:04 PM
So how does Telford make it back considering he's in seizure!

HeIs also in Cloverdale

kronflux
October 12th, 2010, 10:05 PM
Where Mccay when you need him!

I really do think they should bring McKay in on the ship, through the stones. fix a bunch of problems, probably even upgrade the systems with the systems from atlantis. I mean. atlantis would obviously have data on the ships, would it not?
and not only could atlantis dial destiny since they had enough power to activate this magical "worm hole drive"(which in itself was a completely ridiculous quick conclusion just to end the show faster) but there's also the planet that the lucien alliance dialed in from. get the prisoners onboard to talk, and tell SGC where it is, then dial destiny again, and send not only reinforcements, but supplies. heck, let's send rodney right over! get some comedy in there, not just drama.

The major disappointment in this episode that I had was that they didn't think to bring in Daniel Jackson with the stones to help try to communicate with the aliens.
frig. lets get atlantis to fly using this magical wormhole drive all the way to destiny.
so many possibilities, and holes in the plot. it's an awesome show.. but having watched the other series' it makes me sick how many little things I remember that they could easily do, and either get home, or get -somewhere- with things.

morbosfist
October 12th, 2010, 10:06 PM
There wasn't any risk to dialling the gate. They had a steady stream of power from an obviously derelict ship. It would have worked fine. What's stupid about it is dialling home with no way back and an obvious alien presence which has not been taken care of.

mparsons1981
October 12th, 2010, 10:07 PM
Ok so ive just finished the episode.

To be honest i think this was a pretty poor episode, especially compared to last week.

mparsons1981
October 12th, 2010, 10:08 PM
There wasn't any risk to dialling the gate. They had a steady stream of power from an obviously derelict ship. It would have worked fine. What's stupid about it is dialling home with no way back and an obvious alien presence which has not been taken care of.

But you see you defeat your own argument. You say there was no risk to dialling the gate, but also point out there was an alien presence.

It was a huge risk to dial the gate in such a siuation.

Pharaoh Atem
October 12th, 2010, 10:09 PM
all i have to say is that it sucks that we lost telford :(

2 down 3 more of my favorite characters left to be killed :( if this isn't the last season at least i'm being given less reasons to watch

Commander Zelix
October 12th, 2010, 10:11 PM
as a result of the continuing montages, i'm afraid i can't support the show anymore by watching it on tv or telling my friends to watch it.


:D

It's like admitting to your buddies you're watching "The Young and the Restless"

morbosfist
October 12th, 2010, 10:13 PM
But you see you defeat your own argument. You say there was no risk to dialling the gate, but also point out there was an alien presence.

It was a huge risk to dial the gate in such a siuation.There is no risk in dialling the gate. There is a risk in using it to send everyone home. Big difference.

Rob23
October 12th, 2010, 10:15 PM
Anyone else think the LA are being very impatient?

morbosfist
October 12th, 2010, 10:17 PM
Anyone else think the LA are being very impatient?Why shouldn't they be? They've been nothing but cooperative and Young is not giving them an ounce of leeway for it. I can agree with not letting on the ship, no way that is a good idea, but there's only nine of them. At least isolate them somewhere with actual beds.

mparsons1981
October 12th, 2010, 10:19 PM
There is no risk in dialling the gate. There is a risk in using it to send everyone home. Big difference.

Again sorry to disagree.

I think there was a risk in dialling the gate. They were attempting to dial earth, needing huge power reserves, which they were taking from a ship they knew nothing about, which had aliens on they knew nothing about. Who knows what could go wrong!

mparsons1981
October 12th, 2010, 10:20 PM
Anyone else think the LA are being very impatient?

Yes, as well as being very annoying.

mparsons1981
October 12th, 2010, 10:21 PM
Why shouldn't they be? They've been nothing but cooperative and Young is not giving them an ounce of leeway for it. I can agree with not letting on the ship, no way that is a good idea, but there's only nine of them. At least isolate them somewhere with actual beds.

Nothing but cooperative? Like when they were invading the ship and shooting everyone? Airlock all of them, thats what i say.

morbosfist
October 12th, 2010, 10:22 PM
Again sorry to disagree.

I think there was a risk in dialling the gate. They were attempting to dial earth, needing huge power reserves, which they were taking from a ship they knew nothing about, which had aliens on they knew nothing about. Who knows what could go wrong!They know what kind of ship it is and how to operate its technology. That's all they needed. Dialling would have worked. The aliens are an unknown, but they could knot have known or predicted that the aliens would reverse the power flow, especially from outside the control room.


Nothing but cooperative? Like when they were invading the ship and shooting everyone? Airlock all of them, thats what i say.That's over and done. These people surrendered and have aided in undermining their own organization. That calls for some leeway.

Rob23
October 12th, 2010, 10:26 PM
The LA clearly have an alterior motive for being on destiny and I just don't believe Ginn's story from the last episode there's definently something going on.

memnarch
October 12th, 2010, 10:28 PM
I didn't like the episode nearly as much as I thought I would. For an episode with a seeder ship and new aliens, I expected a lot more than we got. While I accept that this isn't Stargate Atlantis and we don't have McKay to do a large info dump on nearly everything we could want to know about the ship, I would've appreciated a little information. And while the SGU norm is to focus on characters with the plot being secondary, both plot and character development seemed in short supply this week, or at least neither one seemed to take the forefront. What character moments there were seemed like rehashing from prior episodes (Chloe's leg mysteriously healing, Rush feeling the cost that his secretive nature brings on others, etc.)

Despite all that, I was thankful that Telford got some development in this episode, even if said development will take him away from the show (possibly permanently, but I highly doubt it). Also, I loved the Varro/TJ interaction this episode. While I still think that bringing in the Lucian Alliance was a mistake, as long as they're here now, I do like that what few of them there are, are at least interesting.

I give this episode a rating of 2 out of 4 stars.

Skygate
October 12th, 2010, 10:30 PM
Right then, you didn't answer the question. Which means we both know what you would have answered would have vindicated Rush. You're right, everything is just too dangerous. They shouldn't have ever stepped through the gate because it was dangerous. Glad to see you would have never wanted SG-1 to have ever been made!

Like I said, of course there's always risk when going off-world. What there shouldn't be is unnecessary risk. Rush created that unnecessary risk and it resulted in a loss of life and the loss of one of the ship's vital resources.

Riley died and we lost a shuttle all for nothing.

It doesn't matter if there was danger in going to that specific planet. They had no business being anywhere near there in the first place.

Skygate
October 12th, 2010, 10:58 PM
Rush is probably the most sane person aboard the ship. With Young causing the death of Riley, and being half the reason Telford was stranded (he did allow Telford to stay, rather than order him back)...

Seriously? All Young did was alleviate Riley's suffering (per Riley's request). He would have died regardless. And if Young is partially the reason for Telford being stranded, the majority of the culpability still falls on Rush.

PG15
October 12th, 2010, 11:02 PM
Jel, most of the time I can at least understand where you're coming from, even if I don't agree. But this is just bad; time and time again you've had the evidence laid out showing exactly why Rush wasn't at fault. And yet you still cling to this without offering any proof.


Not sure what "at fault" means here (are you putting the blame on only one person, or is the blame shared between several?), but either way Rush is not innocent. He had a hand in both Riley's death and Telford's exile from the ship. He was the one who "got the ball rolling", so to speak, by making the ship stop for both the planet and the seed ship. Obviously it's not completely his fault nor did he intend for both stops to end the way they did, but he's not completely innocent.



Chloe's wound should have been addressed in the last episode; in fact, it would have been a better use of time for it, rather than the vocal montage or that Brody/Volker scene. But, I guess the writers/producers or whatever or more convinced they have to try and be hip and popular by continuing to crank out the music. I suppose it's understandable; having people pay you to advertise their music on your show must be bringing in some decent extra cash. Selling out is always profitable, so I don't begrudge TPTB for trying to make more money. They could pick better tracks, though, and be a bit more inventive about how they use the music, instead of a song at the end of almost every episode now.

Why do you assume the worst, that TPTB are putting music montages in because they're payed to do so?

Is it difficult to accept that maybe they're putting it in because they think it's a good way to tell the story?


As a result of the continuing montages, I'm afraid I can't support the show anymore by watching it on TV or telling my friends to watch it. I'll get it other ways as long as it's on, but I can't support it via ratings anymore. Of course, I'll be willing to continue to support it if they pledge to drastically minimize or discontinue the vocal montages, but I doubt that will happen; pride goeth before loss of viewers.


Do you have a Nielsen box?

Because if you didn't then you never helped in the ratings anyway.

SciFiRick
October 12th, 2010, 11:12 PM
Right then, you didn't answer the question. Which means we both know what you would have answered would have vindicated Rush. You're right, everything is just too dangerous. They shouldn't have ever stepped through the gate because it was dangerous. Glad to see you would have never wanted SG-1 to have ever been made!

Anyway, on to my thoughts of the episode...

My initial thoughts are that the aliens aren't evil, per se. To them, they found the ship and these strange humans arrive and start taking power. What would you do? That's right, you'd stop them. They didn't kill Rush or Danning even when they could have. They simply reversed the transfer to get their power back. On another note: yet another bipedal humanoid looking alien that breathes oxygen and expels carbon dioxide. Crazy how there seems to be a lot of them.

JM said it was highly unlikely they'd come across a seed ship, so one wild theory I had was that wasn't a seed ship; rather, it was a ship the aliens made by studying a seed ship. A long shot theory that probably isn't true, though.

Young - The guy just doesn't learn. Through his actions, and lack of some, he's making the same mistakes that led to the mutiny of the civilians earlier. He's also making things worse. I don't begrudge the guy his drinks, but I wonder if it's affecting him. At any rate, this guy is no O'Neill. He's a dictator. He's already caused the death of Riley and now Telford. Hmm, two deaths in two episodes might make someone not like the guy!

Rush - I said to myself that if Gloria or Franklin ever appeared to Rush while there were other people around, it would confirm whether they were Rush's hallucinations or ship projections (or ancients). Since they haven't, I'm beginning to wonder more if they are ship projections. If Rush were crazy, Gloria would have appeared to him on the Seeder Ship. My opinion of him dropped slightly, since he didn't immediately tell people they could dial back to Earth, and logically speaking, keeping the bridge secret is a no-brainer bad idea anyway since such a secret will be discovered eventually. I understand his reasons why, but I wonder how long he thinks he can keep the charade up. Speaking of which...



Jel, most of the time I can at least understand where you're coming from, even if I don't agree. But this is just bad; time and time again you've had the evidence laid out showing exactly why Rush wasn't at fault. And yet you still cling to this without offering any proof. Repeating it over and over is a good way to convince yourself, and some of the weak-minded, but it doesn't prove a point to the more intellectual among us. The very fact that you want to count Telford as dead when he clearly isn't, shows a similar level of mental disconnect you want to accuse Rush of. Newsflash: Telford is still alive. And if you're keen enough to look up some spoilers, you find some surprising things.

Chloe's wound should have been addressed in the last episode; in fact, it would have been a better use of time for it, rather than the vocal montage or that Brody/Volker scene. But, I guess the writers/producers or whatever or more convinced they have to try and be hip and popular by continuing to crank out the music. I suppose it's understandable; having people pay you to advertise their music on your show must be bringing in some decent extra cash. Selling out is always profitable, so I don't begrudge TPTB for trying to make more money. They could pick better tracks, though, and be a bit more inventive about how they use the music, instead of a song at the end of almost every episode now.

As a result of the continuing montages, I'm afraid I can't support the show anymore by watching it on TV or telling my friends to watch it. I'll get it other ways as long as it's on, but I can't support it via ratings anymore. Of course, I'll be willing to continue to support it if they pledge to drastically minimize or discontinue the vocal montages, but I doubt that will happen; pride goeth before loss of viewers.

Last note: I still agree that an LA attack on Earth is laughable. There is no way they could muster enough ships to be a threat, UNLESS they found some secret advanced technology or some super weapon or something. They'd need a massive edge they do NOT have right now.[/QUOTE]

You ask for evidence in regards to jelgate. How about a different point of view. Lets start with Young being a dictator. Though it appears that it is a dictatorship going on but the series started with the wrong people being in the wrong place. Young has of course his duty to lead the military as trained but the civillains is another matter. He has literally taken it upon himself to be a Father to these people just as you would with your own children. As a Father, you try to do what is best and you make wrong decisions sometimes as you grow to be a better Father. Do we not as parents do something similar? Look outside the box on this one. I do not disagree that he his having big troubles and does not have it all together but bottom line he is completely committed to the lives of each and every person on that ship. Why do you think when there was a sign of trouble during Season 1 that he annouced to the civilians "go to your rooms" Sound familiar?? (I am assuming that you are or have been a parent)

I agree, Telford is NOT dead. We actually don't have enough info to know either way.

As far as Rush NOT being entirely responsible for the death of Riley. Considering bad timing in this thought process, he was responsible. He was the first domino that caused the domino's to fall that created the events that eventually caused the death of Riley and losing their last shuttle. If it were not for the discovery of the master code being unlocked and the bridge's location being determined at that particular time by Rush, Destiny would have continued on its path never dropping out of FTL in the first place. There would not have been any decisions, discussions, plans, etc. It would be different if Rush told Young and the rest of the crew of the discovery. Everyone would have known about the planet and no doubt dropped out of FTL with the possibility of finding food and water. Young would have definately sent a team. Since this didn't happen, Rush is the only one to blame. I am not a Rush basher because he does make good decisions and bad. He is just making a lot of bad ones right now that is costing dearly and yes, Young has as well.

I am not a fan of some of the music either. I try to tune it out when it is one that I don't like or I didn't think it worked well with the scene but not near enough to make me stop watching.

Derocalypse
October 12th, 2010, 11:59 PM
This episode brought a classic stargate vibe to SGU. I hope there is more like it this season.

mparsons1981
October 13th, 2010, 12:09 AM
This episode brought a classic stargate vibe to SGU. I hope there is more like it this season.

How was it classic exactly?

Didnt see a team going through the gate and having adventures!

spinny magee
October 13th, 2010, 12:55 AM
O yay I get to do this again

Rush: Were about to dock with a ship
Young: What are you some kind of gypsy?
Rush: It's called a plot device
Brody: Yeah we docked with the ship
Rush: Now I predict you will go to the ship
Young: Malozzi told me in the script already geez......

Volker: It's a seeder ship alright
Eli: Whoa......................
Young: HAHAHA OMG nice Keanu Reaves impression
Volker/Eli/Rush: ????
Young: Oh well....

Scott: Ok we're on the ship, looks like set 3
Greer: Let's go down this path, the darker one is always more tempting.

Chloe: Hello
TJ: Hi
Chloe: Hi
TJ: What is it........
Chloe: You may not have noticed, but I have been walking around without a limp or blood everywhere even though I got shot.
TJ: ??? and, this concerns me how?
Chloe:Well, my wound was the-
TJ: Chloe, have you stealing my cold and flu tablets?

Volker: This corridor smells of wet people and men, lets split up
Scott: I'm turned on by it
Greer: ...............seriously?
Volker: Brody turn the flying ball on search mode.

Gloria: You realise what this ship means right?
Rush: The episode will end on a cliffhanger?
Gloria: No this is the Magnum Opus, but again you won't tell anyone for some reason
Rush: I am too sophistimacted for those apes.
Gloria: Odd, I remember in bed YOU were an ape.
Rush: (Face goes red)..................
Franklin: HAHAHAHAHAHA oh my god HAHAHAHAHA!

Greer: Dude we are back to stage 5 we are lost
Scott: No it's the control room stupid.

Young: Now where the hell were you?
Rush: Got mocked by my wife
Young: Join the club
Telford: Can I have a word with you Everett?
Young: Fine..... I swear if it's about how you were taped to the gate last week, that was Greer........
Telford: I'll kill him for that with a spoon, anyways Camille told me about the ship.
Young: One day I might put tape over her mou- oh well and?
Telford: You didn't tell me........am I not cool anymore?
Young:.............damnit....you know how to get to me when you do that puppy look, yeah we found some ship and Scott is looking around for something to make this dramatic.

*Volker uses the Power up spell on Seeder Ship + 1000hp*
Alien no1: Dude I was having a dream about Pamela Anderson.......bad timing...

Young: Hey guess what, i hate you all, I am going to keep you here to peeve you all off and make Simeon go insane, goodbye (exits)
Varro:................he could of at least Texted us that, wouldn't have hurt so much......
Simeon: kids and technology................

Eli: Hey look an R18+ video!
Rush: Really? Does it have perhaps Uma Thurman nak-
Eli: I was messing with you, seems the ship didn't need the +1000 hp we gave it.

Young: Why do you keep talking out loud to everyone Camille?
Park:........thats Camille over there.........
Young: sorry Camille.......
(walks over to Wray)
Young: Why do you keep opening your mouth to TRAITOR sorry I mean Telford, and the Lucians......
Wray: I don't like you, surely a season together taught you that........and the coup......
Young: Whatevs.......

Scott: So who are you doing? Wray? James?
Greer: your sister........
Scott:...............i'm sorry (breaks down)
Greer: I was joking, im doing Park.
Scott: She IS my sister.

Young: What's going on?
Eli: We got enough power to gate home
Rush: *cough cough* yes but we need to channel power through some dangerous conduits to do so.
Young: Well get on with it.........

Brody: I need to go pee, I'm going to find the Kino room here and pretend that it's bed is Eli's and let it flow.
Volker: Sure, it's not like those movies where the lone guy ALWAYS get jumped hahahaha............oh crap......

Scott: Surprise we found some gates!
Rush: You idiot, I don't care let's do some other stuff......
Greer: (flips rush off as he leads them away)
Scott: Werd..........

Volker: Oh hey, I could hear your pee from here, you need to OH MOTHER OF JESUS
Alien 1: God you humans are fat......(passes out)

TJ: If you aren't careful your head might explode
Simeon: I want to have sexxxxx.........want in?
(TJ knocks simeon out)
Marine Guard:..................nice
Young: What, get off the floor what are you doing down there? Oh TJ I impregnated James, that is all bye......

Volker: Hey guys something just found me
Greer: I swear if he's playing hide and seek again I will rip out his oesphagus with my bare hands.

Varro: Let's make out
TJ: God not here, Young is watching
Young:hmmmmmmmmmmmm.........you try tapping her and I will make out with YOU, yeah how you like THAT.
Varro: ........is he always this crazy.....
TJ: He only started being like that once he learned Marsden forgot the stash of "Revealing Material" on Icarus Base if you get my drift (motions hand up and down)
Varro: (facepalm)

Telford: Hey i'm going to go on the ship as the redshirt, umm yeah
Young: Goddamit how many redshirts are we gonna kill off this season.

TJ: Oh cool an alien
Greer: It's sleeping or something
Alien 1: SURPRISE, who are you? Who are the two fat guys? And the hairy man?
Rush: Lower yer guns he won't betray us yet.
Volker: Here give him some fruit
Brody: It's crap.....
Volker: Whatevs
Alien 1: Holy crap that tasted like poison.
Rush: Search for his friends my minions.
Telford: Agreed, we need the meat......
Alien 1: ???

Rush: Transfer being initiated now
Eli: Now only those aliens can stop us BWAHAHAHAH!

Greer: Hey guys, looks like he brang along a whole posse of these guys.......some of these pods say........"Metallica Rules".......this one says.......
*Gunshots*
Scott: Greer?
Greer: That one said "Justin Bieber is hot", barbarian.........

Rush: I'm gonna stay here so Telford gets captured
Young: Ok i'll send redshirts into the fray, bring the alien too, dunning stay with him.
Dunning: Why god why.......

Young: Gate is dialing, excellent, oh dear it's stopped, Rush are you interrupting it for porn again?
Rush: I don't know-
(Bazinga)
Dunning: Ow...........
Eli: Umm they are stealing our HP.
Young: Hackers.........

Alien 1: I'm out, i need to take a dump, bye!
Marsden: Dammit can't hit.........targets.......2.......feet away.....

Telford: We found Rush and Dunning, they are fine.
Young: Get yer azz back here.
Telford: I'm gonna pull a redshirt on you and stay and make sure we make this dramatic.

Airman: I can't open this door.........
(clunk)
Rush: I NEED TO GO OUT OF THE WAY!
TJ: ??
Greer: whilst he was unconcious in his sleep he was saying stuff about me.....

(Destiny has updated their face book status with seeder ship: Broken Up)

Rush: God I am suckish sometimes.......
Young: Sorry Telford, sucks to be you
Telford: Yeah just get out of here and get those people except for Rush home.

Telford:................KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA- wrong movie RRRRRRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

Alien 1: Sup
Alien 2: Sup
Alien 3: Sup
Alien 4: METALLICA RULES
Alien 5: Sup
Alien 6: Justin Bieber is like so hawt......it turns me on...like totally....
Telford: Dear god.......................................................

END

spinny magee
October 13th, 2010, 12:55 AM
How was it classic exactly?

Didnt see a team going through the gate and having adventures!

They didn't go through the gate every episode.........

MattSilver 3k
October 13th, 2010, 01:29 AM
I thought it was a great episode. Dropped some little hints for future storylines and had fun with the suspense/mystery aspect to the seeder ship, while not going nuts and forgetting that SGU is still a character show.

First off, I'm glad they didn't forget about Riley. Seriously, I thought it pretty likely that he was going to be ignored, but he wasn't - hell, you could feel the weight of his death all over, which was great. Segueing from Riley I get to Young, who is seriously starting to lose his marbles at the bottom of an alcohol bottle. He still has his moments of badassery, but dammit all if it's kinda sad, yet understandable, to see him spiral. I'm not quite criticising the move, it's just depressing to watch. Poor guy.

Rush, on the other hand, is just... Ugh. I've got mixed feelings about him right now. Dude's up one moment and down the next, and he's starting to get a little more responsible for some bad shift going down. I kinda hope more incidents like Riley and Telford don't occur before he realises that maybe he's doing the wrong thing.

Speaking of, Telford was the MVP tonight. Dude was spot on with his calling out of Young, while staying supportive and mostly on the level. Sacrificing himself I saw coming as soon as the option arose, but since I wouldn't have expected him to do something like that this time last year, it's good that he's changed so much in my eyes and able to be thought of as a heroic sacrificer. Wray was pretty cool too - I get where she's coming from with the humane angle, and she isn't suffocating me with it, at least.

Now, to the seeder ship itself. I liked it - kinda like Destiny but not. I very much dug the brown aliens (Not Boogers. To hell with this ****in' fandom and its naming practices. Seriously, stop it.), especially in hindsight - they were a research team, they stopped the ship or something, and didn't have enough power to start up again. So they waited, let us start the power transfer, reversed it, and BAM! Instant power boost. Victory to them. I'm actually hoping that the browns are actually fighting against the blue aliens, both sides hoping to gain control of Ancient tech and destroy the other...

The Lucian Alliance angle is interesting. Man, that prick Simeon must have a lot of intel - why the hell would they keep him on the ship? Jeez... Varro is awesome. I think the guy's sympathetic levels are increasing by the episode, and he's actually kinda sweet to TJ, which is awesome. Ginn didn't appear much, but dammit all if her little puppy dog routine at the sound of ancient tech wasn't just the most adorable thing I've seen this year... Followed by the little brown alien playing possum. D'awww...

Oh right, and there were other characters. Poor, flustered, naive, Eli. Dude's going to have to snap sometime. Should be fun. Scott and Greer's little conversation was epic. Scott being all Daniel Jackson-y to the alien was epic times a million (Dude's a soft touch. It's kinda nice compared to the rest of the military). I love that Chloe's mysterious leg wound thing is getting explored some more, little seeds being planted as we go... Should be fun.

Great episode, one that may just become one of my favourites down the track.

ianrobbie
October 13th, 2010, 02:35 AM
Has no-one else noticed that the new "brown" aliens look just a little like Asgard? Reverse-engineer the Asgard physiology a few (hundred?) thousand years and wouldn't they look similiar?
Also, I seem to remember a while back that someone pointed out the space-suits on Destiny looked similiar to the suits used by Daniel and Rodney in the Radiation room in Stargate Atlantis (I forget the episode name. It was the one where they activated a device that destroyed any Wraith ships going into Hyperspace). It was pointed out of one of the producers and all he said was "There's a reason for that....".

Off-topic - Did no-one else notice that the Nebula TJ saw on the Faith planet and in the Observation Deck looked just a wee bit like one big ascended being?

ianrobbie
October 13th, 2010, 02:36 AM
Sorry-for double-post.
I think that's how Telford manages to get back.

coZma
October 13th, 2010, 04:23 AM
Also, I seem to remember a while back that someone pointed out the space-suits on Destiny looked similiar to the suits used by Daniel and Rodney in the Radiation room in Stargate Atlantis (I forget the episode name. It was the one where they activated a device that destroyed any Wraith ships going into Hyperspace). It was pointed out of one of the producers and all he said was "There's a reason for that....".


I was waiting for that bit of information to clarify this as well. And if the reason is that reusing props is cheaper I'm gonna be pretty mad.

PS: A bit of an off-topic question - Are there gonna be any kinosodes this season?

knowles2
October 13th, 2010, 04:29 AM
Has no-one else noticed that the new "brown" aliens look just a little like Asgard? Reverse-engineer the Asgard physiology a few (hundred?) thousand years and wouldn't they look similiar?

The Asgard race is way less than hundred thousand years old, they only had space tech for 30,000 years.
The destiny project was launch by the ancients millions of years ago. Way before the Asgard have even evolve language let alone technology or interacted with the ancients. There no way the new aliens could be related to the asgard.

Stormtrooper
October 13th, 2010, 05:04 AM
So a bunch of stuff happened in this episode, but what was the point of it all? Rush and Young continue to suck. The other characters aren't that inspiring either. I bet next week Telford will just come through the gate and explain he found the seeder's gate room and dialed Destiny from there when the ship dropped from FTL. James was mysteriously missing, but then again, maybe it's better that way.

Doesn't the seeder have shields just like Destiny? If so, how did the District 9 aliens board it? So a seeder + Destiny can dial Earth, huh? I guess it's safe to say now that Atlantis can dial Destiny?

I don't know. I probably should have liked this episode a lot more, but the whole thing fell kind of flat to me. SGU and its characters are seriously lacking some magic. And that annoying, depressing song at the end... Blergh.

Earth without the stones and all the soap that entailed. That's how I would define this episode.

6/10

ipfnd
October 13th, 2010, 05:51 AM
Okay, a very very good episode but from when they initially announced this show I have been waiting for a glimpse inside a "seeder/seed" ship and all I got was a long distance view. I'm hopeful more will be shown/said of these ships. And yes I do understand the budget constraints.

MattSilver 3k
October 13th, 2010, 06:02 AM
Dude, I think most of the episode was spent inside of the seeder ship...

Egle01
October 13th, 2010, 06:04 AM
I think we got a fair amount of the seeder ship.

VampyreWraith
October 13th, 2010, 06:38 AM
they even showed the stargate factory type thing inside the ship, there was a lot of the ship shown not just a long distance view and Telford is still there so we might end up seeing more soon

garhkal
October 13th, 2010, 07:03 AM
i am really starting to not like Rush, first Riley then Telford

While it is messed up he was left behind, it is like imo the near end of Intervention where scott/greer told rush to continue. Young told the others to figure a way to break the control the 'browns' had and release the ship. Rush KNEW he could do it from the bridge faster... so did so. Also telford DID know it was more than likely he might be left behind..


So do you guys think the LA will hit earth?

It is seeming more and more likely. Which makes me again wonder if this is going to be the 'plot' for the 3rd sg1 film.


seeing a stargate actually being built
more exploring seed ship


kinda dropped the ball

Was it me, or did those gates look almost finished with just the top cheveron part not attached, but 'hanging' above..



And I think they should either have connected to Earth and lost it, or gotten closer to connecting.

i am actually GLAD the connection to earth did not work... Otherwise series over!


why didn't Rush stop the jump?

He actually activated it.. It was imo to prevent the aliens from trying to reconnect to complete their power drain...


Damn good episode! They keep getting better. Was really getting into the LDP character. And rush, oh rush. How can you keep doing these things and really how long until someone finally trails him to the bridge? Unless he finds an alternative place to show people he was sneaking off to i can't see his frequent disappearing act to last too long. Of course, who knows what else we may come upon . . .

I am just wondering if/when the next time they 'see him missing' they start an internal scan for him...


Very good episode. The 'Browns' were very interesting, and they came off as pretty cool. I didn't see them being evil, but instead simply have their own purpose with the Seeder Ship. I think we will see them again later down the road.

Also, the scene where Scott offered some food to the alien, it really came off as old Stargate to me. It was a very nice moment.


I feel that the next ep where LDP appears will show them again. And as to scott's giving food to the alien. It did give me a 'daniel moment'..


I think Telford makes an interesting comparassion for Rush in both always will make the sacrifice of the greater good but Telford is willing to sacrifice his own life something Rush seems to lack. Speaking of Rush the ending speaks of more villianification of him. I kind of like how the hallucination Gloria points it out, was it really for Destiny or was it so Rush didn't have to go to home? I have my theories but its all specualtion either way?



it was ironic that in intervention telford made that comment on rush being a coward, he won't risk his life... so it's not a bluff.. then telford goes and Risks HIS, to have Rush being the one who broke connections beween the ships, stranding him.. for now.


Now that im thinking...

The new aliens have something planned with the seeder ship? Why they reversed the transfer..? Maybe they need energy to make an F.T.L. jump or something?

As i mentioned on the other thread on the aliens, i thin it MIGHT have something to do with their pods.. maybe they needed more power to wake the others.


While you're welcome to your opinion, I'm a bit tired of the Rush bashing. There are perfectly valid things you can knock him for, but this ain't it. Riley wasn't totally his fault; Young gave the order for them to go to the planet, and it was a risk worth taking, considering their low supplies. **** happens, and regardless of whether the shuttle would have landed safely, there was always the chance there would have been something dangerous on the planet and someone could have died.
.

Especially since Telford kinda knew he might be left, AND Young was wanting rush up to the control room to do just what he did.. disconnect the ships!


Didn't Young give the order to go because Rush lied to them about why Destiny locked out that planet?

WE have seen in prior SG eps that the gate locks out one that is buried (or gone as in SGA season 2 on the lava planet).. So how was he lying why it was locked..


I hate to say this but do you think Telford was so insistant on staying there cause if he reversed the transfer and that if they made a connection to earth Telford would get his command?

He did seem a lot eager to stay an get it done...


I rather enjoyed this episode too. Unfortunate to see Telford left behind but I suspected something like that might happen when he decided to stay behind alone. Rush is starting to look like a man who's in over his head these days. It seems even he's having doubts about his own motivations and frankly I can't understand what he's trying to accomplish. Just what does he hope to gain by keeping his discovery secret? Like others have noted it's only going to make Young angrier when the time comes.

WE saw some of his self doubt las ep with the riley situation. And it looked to me like he showed the same doubts this ep, when it came time to disconnect/after.
As to Young... well from the spoilers it seems young does NOT go bat scit on him..



I also found myself a little unclear, did Rush "order" Destiny to stop at the Seeder ship? That seemed to be what was implied, it also seems he knows enough about the systems to recognize the object within range was a ship rather than a planet. That further raises the question as to why the ship was there in the first place and why it had a crew of little alien guys, apparently in suspended animation, that just happened to awaken when people started poking around and turning things on. If anything this episode opens up a lot of questions and hopefully there will be some answers down the line.

To me Rush did NOT imput any commands for that it was automated. Infact it makes sense when you think of it. BOTH ships serve a purpose on the mission, so it would make sense when one is in range to 'dock' of the other it automatically does so as from being a communication specialist (Us navy ET) you can get far faster/more data transfered with a direct link than you can from a transmission...


Two deaths in two episodes because of Rush does that:P

While i will agree Riley;s death IS ON rush, Telford is A) not dead yet and B) even young wanted rush to get up to the control room to disconnect the ships..... Rush just did it from the bridge rather than the control room...


Does anyone think the whole war with Lucian Alliace part of the SG1 movie script

Jumps up and down.. ME ME ME!


The gate factory was awesome. I hope we eventually get to see one in action, there appeared to be a large door on the underside that could be how the finished gates get off the line and down to the planet.

Actually with the way the nose cone looked (and the 2 rails either side) it made it look like they are launched from there..


Their exoskeletons had a human feel to it as well, the skulls looked human from certain angles, again, maybe a hybrid that was made by the Blues to better understand Ancient tech by combining ANcient DNA found on the Seeder with theirs?
.

And where would they have gotten the DNA from the ancients from? Even taking into account one of the ancients having sneezed onto a console millions of years ago, by now it would have either flat out disappeared, or degraded to the point of being unrecognizable..



Re Rush's actions, I noticed that he overheard Telford saying that he would take over if Young didn't start shaping up. I'm thinking that while Rush doesn't think Young is fit for command, he'd probably prefer to him to Telford since he's used to getting around Young when he wants to.

I am looking forward to the showdown when everyone finds out that Rush has found the bridge, because I hope Young or someone finally decides to follow him when he leaves instead of just constantly wondering where he went off to.

Plus he probabily still has some memories from being in telfords mind, and finds young better than telford.. Which actually gives me a query. we know from when scott rode telford, that there was a slight memory bleed over..
Does it happen with others?



Using non lethal weapons to gain back the control room shows to us they could as well be a small alienSG1 team stuck in that ship and simply don't want to loose all the power.

The thing that gets me though, is we never saw any actual weapons on those aliens...

Cont next post..

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
October 13th, 2010, 07:04 AM
Young said Homeworld Command was expecting them does that mean that the stargate is at the pentagon?

Hohenzollern
October 13th, 2010, 07:22 AM
why didn't Rush stop the jump?

For that matter; was uncoupling the ships the only way to save the remaining power? Would Telford and Eli's efforts have reversed the flow?

Most importantly; the power reversal... Rush is now quite obsessed knowing what Destiny's true mission is (Aftermath). He was unfazed by the gate foundry; and the new Alien standing right there; as he worked on the console.

Consider how he, again, as in first season was maneuvering for the crew to get off/home and he is left behind alone. When it became obvious Young would not allow this (stated he was sending reinforcements); Rush initiated the power reversal to kill the gate possibly sending EVERYONE home (Young would have taken Rush back); and thus everyone continuing (with Rush) on Destiny. Re Rush's "conscience?Franklin?" comments at the epilogue.

YoshiKart64
October 13th, 2010, 07:24 AM
Young said Homeworld Command was expecting them does that mean that the stargate is at the pentagon?

It would seem so...although you'd have to wonder why they'd put it there. The pentagon needs to be safe.

garhkal
October 13th, 2010, 07:28 AM
16mins in

I like Wray standing up to Young, but frankly i find the idea of the lucian alliance being some kind of threat to earth as laughable.

While i do see some of the point that they may not be a proper threat, they are not a laughable one..
BUT i did like wray standing up to Young.. BUT it also to me, shows how far Young has 'sliped' that it took 2 people calling him on it for him to see.


It'll be interesting to see how the brown aliens (is that what we're calling them?) turn out. They don't seem to be bad at first glance. Sure they kicked our crew off, but technically they were there first so maybe they just didnt want us messing with things?

With Telford with them maybe they'll learn about us and appreciate us. maybe help us if the blue aliens come back?

And we seem to LOVE the phrase "Finders keepers".. it is our biggest reason we keep atlantis.. So by that logic those browns should have that other ship.
And i agree with Kaiphantom, n that their reversal of the power theft was NOT an act of hostility, but more of a group of people keeping what is theirs.


I agree with you 100%, great episode.

I like seeing the consequences of Rushs' actions chip away at sanity, much in the same way Youngs' are chipping away at his. The parallels between that and their dislike for each other is affecting everyone, ultimately chipping them away literally.

I wonder If the eventuallity of the others finding the bridge and those 2 realizing both have gone through heck/the parrallels in their sanity slipping actually shows them BOTH are right..


I really do think they should bring McKay in on the ship, through the stones. fix a bunch of problems, probably even upgrade the systems with the systems from atlantis. I mean. atlantis would obviously have data on the ships, would it not?

From what we have seen no it does not. As to him upgrading systems.. With what exactly? His good looks?:D


the planet that the lucien alliance dialed in from. get the prisoners onboard to talk, and tell SGC where it is, then dial destiny again, and send not only reinforcements, but supplies. heck, let's send rodney right over! get some comedy in there, not just drama.


Kinda hard since it BLEW UP.


Anyone else think the LA are being very impatient?

If i was in their situation i would be impatient as well.. Especially with young consistently mentioning just frakking stranding them.


Seriously? All Young did was alleviate Riley's suffering (per Riley's request). He would have died regardless. And if Young is partially the reason for Telford being stranded, the majority of the culpability still falls on Rush.

YET again i have to comment that YOUNG was wanting rush to dedock the ships.. WHICH IS WHAT rush did. So why all the hating on him for doing what YOUNG wanted done?


He was the one who "got the ball rolling", so to speak, by making the ship stop for both the planet and the seed ship. Obviously it's not completely his fault nor did he intend for both stops to end the way they did, but he's not completely innocent.


Do you know something we don't? It looked like the stop was automated.. NOT something he programmed in.



First off, I'm glad they didn't forget about Riley. Seriously, I thought it pretty likely that he was going to be ignored, but he wasn't - hell, you could feel the weight of his death all over, which was great.

I do like it that Wray was asking young to speak at his memorial.. Wonder if they will actually show it like they did with Dr Frasier or Becket.



Rush, on the other hand, is just... Ugh. I've got mixed feelings about him right now. Dude's up one moment and down the next, and he's starting to get a little more responsible for some bad shift going down. I kinda hope more incidents like Riley and Telford don't occur before he realises that maybe he's doing the wrong thing.

it does bother me he seems to be slipping into his own version of insanity.



Speaking of, Telford was the MVP tonight. Dude was spot on with his calling out of Young, while staying supportive and mostly on the level. Sacrificing himself I saw coming as soon as the option arose, but since I wouldn't have expected him to do something like that this time last year, it's good that he's changed so much in my eyes and able to be thought of as a heroic sacrificer. Wray was pretty cool too - I get where she's coming from with the humane angle, and she isn't suffocating me with it, at least.

Big +1 on telford. As to wray.. i actually liked her this ep. She as well as Telford have matured in this weeks ep.




The Lucian Alliance angle is interesting. Man, that prick Simeon must have a lot of intel - why the hell would they keep him on the ship? Jeez... Varro is awesome. I think the guy's sympathetic levels are increasing by the episode, and he's actually kinda sweet to TJ, which is awesome.

I wonder if Varro and Simeon go head to head at some point.. as it seems they were at odds this ep.


When it became obvious Young would not allow this (stated he was sending reinforcements); Rush initiated the power reversal to kill the gate possibly sending EVERYONE home (Young would have taken Rush back); and thus everyone continuing (with Rush) on Destiny..

I Doubt it was rush who did that.. BUT i do like your thought process on it.

ianrobbie
October 13th, 2010, 07:29 AM
The Asgard race is way less than hundred thousand years old, they only had space tech for 30,000 years.
The destiny project was launch by the ancients millions of years ago. Way before the Asgard have even evolve language let alone technology or interacted with the ancients. There no way the new aliens could be related to the asgard.

Yeah, but the whole thing with the familiar Armour and the eerily familiar Aliens, coupled with the fact that they seem to be friendly (they didn't shoot Telford at first and they also didn't kill Rush and Brody, they only stunned them) could possibly mean the Asgard somehow found out a way to dial the ninth chevron onto a seeder ship OR they struck out on their own.
Remember, Destiny isn't flying through Hyperspace, only a little bit faster than light.
Maybe it's a breakaway Asgard clan, who fled when the genetic manipulation started?

UniverseSizePlotHole
October 13th, 2010, 07:32 AM
No disappointment is seeing weapons fire without seeing the device that shot it. What next, off screen juggling?

This is more like a slowroll, Rush pouts when he can't go like a little kid, finds an excuse to go, sees the gate factory says 'meh,' blown by alien weapon, gets back to Destiny and drops the seed ship like its hot. Then we have Telford squirreled away on it instead of a USAF sticker. Rush could have blown the sucker (main weapon was right near it I thought it would interfere with docking) that would have stopped the power transfer and not made Destiny go straight back into FTL.

So anyways the Seeder is nothing special, at least not to Rush and the thoughts of an epic meeting of gods of the journey was more like your cousin came over and dumped some old video cassettes and tried to drink your beer.

(This post is in homage to sfdebris)

Descended
October 13th, 2010, 07:45 AM
No disappointment is seeing weapons fire without seeing the device that shot it. What next, off screen juggling?

This is more like a slowroll, Rush pouts when he can't go like a little kid, finds an excuse to go, sees the gate factory says 'meh,' blown by alien weapon, gets back to Destiny and drops the seed ship like its hot. Then we have Telford squirreled away on it instead of a USAF sticker. Rush could have blown the sucker (main weapon was right near it I thought it would interfere with docking) that would have stopped the power transfer and not made Destiny go straight back into FTL.

So anyways the Seeder is nothing special, at least not to Rush and the thoughts of an epic meeting of gods of the journey was more like your cousin came over and dumped some old video cassettes and tried to drink your beer.

(This post is in homage to sfdebris)

I think hitting it with the main weapon would have been counterproductive :-)

1) it would have used up their already diminished power
2) it could have destroyed destiny when it exploded

Looks like Destiny will need another star pit stop soon.

jelgate
October 13th, 2010, 07:49 AM
PS: A bit of an off-topic question - Are there gonna be any kinosodes this season?
No


While i will agree Riley;s death IS ON rush, Telford is A) not dead yet and B) even young wanted rush to get up to the control room to disconnect the ships..... Rush just did it from the bridge rather than the control room...
Rush could have easily let Telford to continue his work and reverse the energy drain instead of separating Destiny from seeder. Or use the bridge to see if it was going to work instead of automatically separating the two. Finally if Rush had been truthful about discovering the bridge and how to control Destiny they could of separated long before Telford's life was in peril

Phenom
October 13th, 2010, 07:51 AM
What a great ep! The past 2 have been fantastic....let's hope season 2 continues like this!

Egle01
October 13th, 2010, 07:54 AM
What a great ep! The past 2 have been fantastic....let's hope season 2 continues like this!It has been pretty extraordinary, hasn't it. :):) Enjoying this show so much! :D

ipfnd
October 13th, 2010, 07:57 AM
it could have been so much cooler, fine not tons of power but how about letting them get at least all the reserves full and maybe one reg tank full... still at 40% reserve max poer after sun trip , right?

new tech

seeing a stargate actually being built
more exploring seed ship


kinda dropped the ball

Exactly!!!!!!

knowles2
October 13th, 2010, 08:06 AM
I think hitting it with the main weapon would have been counterproductive :-)

1) it would have used up their already diminished power
2) it could have destroyed destiny when it exploded

Looks like Destiny will need another star pit stop soon. Plus there is always a chance, once the others learn of the bridge that they will go searching for the seed vessel an try to capture it off the aliens an then they can use it get home.

But I suspect Rush is already considering is options. Destroying the seed vessel make no sense.

Kaiphantom
October 13th, 2010, 08:38 AM
Not sure what "at fault" means here (are you putting the blame on only one person, or is the blame shared between several?), but either way Rush is not innocent. He had a hand in both Riley's death and Telford's exile from the ship. He was the one who "got the ball rolling", so to speak, by making the ship stop for both the planet and the seed ship. Obviously it's not completely his fault nor did he intend for both stops to end the way they did, but he's not completely innocent.

One big thing I've learned in life is that fault rarely belongs to one person alone. So you're partially right; my biggest beef is with those who try to claim it was all Rush's fault; last I checked, it wasn't Rush who had his hand over Riley's mouth. But you have to be careful with the "who got the ball rolling" thing, because we can keep going back farther and farther to see who got the ball rolling. Let's go back to the SGC who created the Icarus Project. Or the SGC that sent Telford into the LA that allowed him to be brainwashed. Or the LA for attacking the planet. Or let let's go farther back and blame the SGC who first activated the gate and sent a team through.

They all "got the ball rolling."

Young bears more direct responsibility for Riley's death. Young picked the team that would go, and ordered them to go. So Riley being on that ship in the first place was Young's fault. But I find it hilarious to try and blame Rush for a decision that everyone here would have made. Supplies are low and you are given the chance to go to a planet to replenish them. So your choices are eventual starvation, or a risky chance. Every damn planet the SGC or the SGU teams have gone to, has had risk and chances of death. And due to bad luck or whatever, people have died.

To blame Rush for giving them a chance is beyond stupid. If you truly believe this, then you obviously must believe that ever going through the gate is too dangerous, and everyone should forevermore stay on the ship. In fact, don't leave your house. Stay in the basement. Even though I'm telling you that you need to go out to get more food, you don't know what will happen; you could die. And if you do die, I'm at fault for telling you that you could possibly get food in the outside world when you are starving.

See how stupid that is?

People ironically have a better case for Telford, but still the fault is split. Telford wanted to stay, knowing he could get stranded or could die. The aliens could have come back at any time to kill him, so Telford is partially at fault for his own situation. Young could have ordered him back at anytime as the man in charge (and we can all see how dearly he wants to remain the sole man in charge). So Young bears responsibility. Rush didn't know that Telford was trying to reverse the power flow, and there's no guarantee he would have succeeded. Even if he had, the aliens could have shown up and changed it right back, thus changing NOTHING. Young himself wanted to disconnect the ship, so Rush was technically doing what Young wanted anyway.

So while Rush bears some blame, the majority falls on Telford and Young. Trying to pin Riley and Telford 100% on Rush is disingenuous at best, and deliberate lying and misinformation at worst. Rush has real faults you can ping him for (and I do), so if someone doesn't like him, they'd be better off focusing on those.


Why do you assume the worst, that TPTB are putting music montages in because they're payed to do so?

Why not? It's probably not the only reason, but I'd make an educated guess that it's part of it. Generally speaking, unless a song is already incredibly popular and done by a well-known band, people pay to have their songs included as advertisements. It's only my viewpoint, but I view such things as no different than Coke paying to have their product used in a movie (such as "Mac and Me"). I view it as a sellout, but I recognize that human greed is a basic instinct.


Is it difficult to accept that maybe they're putting it in because they think it's a good way to tell the story?

If it helped tell the story, you'd have a point. I will admit that some of them have been decent, but most have been bad and the story has suffered for it. Opportunity cost; when you include a montage, you can't include scenes where the characters explain info that might be helpful (and there are always scenes left on the cutting room floor). For instance, Chloe's wound should have been addressed last episode; I bet quite a few people were going "Wait, they are only getting around to people talking about Chloe's wound NOW!?"


Do you have a Nielsen box?Because if you didn't then you never helped in the ratings anyway.

I don't. But I could be part of those "download numbers" that JM is so desperate to cling to rather than face other possible reasons for why ratings are falling. Also, I could spread the word to other people and get them to watch SGU, and those people might have Nielson boxes. I don't feel inclined to spread the word now. So, I could have had a positive effect, but I definitely won't now. I'll be pitching them to watch other shows.

Last note: I don't expect Jelgate to respond to me, anyway, because I have a feeling he/she has me on ignore. Which is a shame, for a poster of Jelgate's status to pretty much plug their ears and go "LALALA! I CAN'T HEAR YOU AND THE GOOD POINTS YOU ARE MAKING AND WOULD PREFER NOT TO DISCUSS OR DEFEND MY VIEWPOINTS! LALALA!" I haven't felt a need to put anyone on ignore yet; the problem today, as it always has been, is people unwilling to engage in communication to discuss their ideas and come to mutual understanding. If you ever wonder politics is so polarized with the sides not willing to listen to each other, you need only look here and understand that it is simply representative of the population.

xxxevilgrinxxx
October 13th, 2010, 08:58 AM
great review, MattSilver3k!

zainea13
October 13th, 2010, 09:04 AM
I was waiting for that bit of information to clarify this as well. And if the reason is that reusing props is cheaper I'm gonna be pretty mad.

PS: A bit of an off-topic question - Are there gonna be any kinosodes this season?

Yes I asked joseph mallozzi about it and he said because they were cool and it was a good tiem to reuse them cuz they were expensive to make. I'm not really upset about it. they reuse the same actors to play different characters. I mean even Varro, his actor was a guy that killed Natan in SG1 ... yet now he is someone totally different.

JadedWraith
October 13th, 2010, 09:21 AM
Another kinda OT or should I said, out of the current line of discussion question I was multitasking when I watched the episode, so I obviously missed something: first Lt Scott, Greer and the science team was on the seeder, then Rush and Telford went to the seeder as well. The plot moves, the aliens show up and take control of the Seeder ship, cutting off the progress of Lt. Scott' team, carrying unconscious Rush. Rush regains conscience and disappears. Destiny jumps to FTL. But only Telford was left behing on the Seeder Ship. So my question is : when did everyone else returned to Destiny? I must have missed a scene.

leiasky
October 13th, 2010, 09:22 AM
So do you guys think the LA will hit earth?

Yep. In the new SG-1 movie. :)

Hate Young. Wish Telford would have kicked his ass and taken over. He's a pitiful commander that shouldn't be allowed to lead.

Rush having to tell the military guys what they should probably be doing yanked me out of the moment. Telford should have known.

Rush - I get why he's doing what he's doing. He has nothing to go home to so he wants to continue his research on Destiny. I like the 'conscience/ascended ancient' in the form of his dead wife.

Anyone else on the ship? Just don't care.

Did love the unevolved Asgard (before their cloning wacked them out), tho'.

bart112
October 13th, 2010, 09:58 AM
The episode's are getting better and better if this keeps building up like this I will go out of my mind. And Joel Goldsmiths BGM is just awesome its giving me the creeps when I hear it.

I just realised that in the 16 years of stargate I have seen this is the first time we ever have seen how te gates are made and how they look on the inside.

And also a big hint on how they are going home:
On the end of destiny's destination there is gonna be the second seeder ship so they can gate back home.

The Mighty 6 platoon
October 13th, 2010, 10:18 AM
I thought it was a great episode. Dropped some little hints for future storylines and had fun with the suspense/mystery aspect to the seeder ship, while not going nuts and forgetting that SGU is still a character show.

First off, I'm glad they didn't forget about Riley. Seriously, I thought it pretty likely that he was going to be ignored, but he wasn't - hell, you could feel the weight of his death all over, which was great. Segueing from Riley I get to Young, who is seriously starting to lose his marbles at the bottom of an alcohol bottle. He still has his moments of badassery, but dammit all if it's kinda sad, yet understandable, to see him spiral. I'm not quite criticising the move, it's just depressing to watch. Poor guy.

Rush, on the other hand, is just... Ugh. I've got mixed feelings about him right now. Dude's up one moment and down the next, and he's starting to get a little more responsible for some bad shift going down. I kinda hope more incidents like Riley and Telford don't occur before he realises that maybe he's doing the wrong thing.

Speaking of, Telford was the MVP tonight. Dude was spot on with his calling out of Young, while staying supportive and mostly on the level. Sacrificing himself I saw coming as soon as the option arose, but since I wouldn't have expected him to do something like that this time last year, it's good that he's changed so much in my eyes and able to be thought of as a heroic sacrificer. Wray was pretty cool too - I get where she's coming from with the humane angle, and she isn't suffocating me with it, at least.

Now, to the seeder ship itself. I liked it - kinda like Destiny but not. I very much dug the brown aliens (Not Boogers. To hell with this ****in' fandom and its naming practices. Seriously, stop it.), especially in hindsight - they were a research team, they stopped the ship or something, and didn't have enough power to start up again. So they waited, let us start the power transfer, reversed it, and BAM! Instant power boost. Victory to them. I'm actually hoping that the browns are actually fighting against the blue aliens, both sides hoping to gain control of Ancient tech and destroy the other...

The Lucian Alliance angle is interesting. Man, that prick Simeon must have a lot of intel - why the hell would they keep him on the ship? Jeez... Varro is awesome. I think the guy's sympathetic levels are increasing by the episode, and he's actually kinda sweet to TJ, which is awesome. Ginn didn't appear much, but dammit all if her little puppy dog routine at the sound of ancient tech wasn't just the most adorable thing I've seen this year... Followed by the little brown alien playing possum. D'awww...

Oh right, and there were other characters. Poor, flustered, naive, Eli. Dude's going to have to snap sometime. Should be fun. Scott and Greer's little conversation was epic. Scott being all Daniel Jackson-y to the alien was epic times a million (Dude's a soft touch. It's kinda nice compared to the rest of the military). I love that Chloe's mysterious leg wound thing is getting explored some more, little seeds being planted as we go... Should be fun.

Great episode, one that may just become one of my favourites down the track.

Ah thank you Matt, for doing my work for me. I might have had to spend quite a time (time that can now be spent on other things like eating pie) articulating my thoughts on the episode into a long post. However helpfully you have posted something that pretty much sums up what I think of the ep. Therefore I can happily say that this man/beast/cybernetic monkey thing speaks for me!

MattSilver 3k
October 13th, 2010, 10:22 AM
Ah thank you Matt, for doing my work for me. I might have had to spend quite a time (time that can now be spent on other things like eating pie) articulating my thoughts on the episode into a long post. However helpfully you have posted something that pretty much sums up what I think of the ep. Therefore I can happily say that this man/beast/cybernetic monkey thing speaks for me!

Go me? :D

Briangate78
October 13th, 2010, 10:32 AM
I thought it was a great episode. Dropped some little hints for future storylines and had fun with the suspense/mystery aspect to the seeder ship, while not going nuts and forgetting that SGU is still a character show.

This ep was certianly plot driven but yeah they did not forget the characters at all, and they even got their moments.


First off, I'm glad they didn't forget about Riley. Seriously, I thought it pretty likely that he was going to be ignored, but he wasn't - hell, you could feel the weight of his death all over, which was great. Segueing from Riley I get to Young, who is seriously starting to lose his marbles at the bottom of an alcohol bottle. He still has his moments of badassery, but dammit all if it's kinda sad, yet understandable, to see him spiral. I'm not quite criticising the move, it's just depressing to watch. Poor guy.

Yeah Young is falling to pieces. lol.


Rush, on the other hand, is just... Ugh. I've got mixed feelings about him right now. Dude's up one moment and down the next, and he's starting to get a little more responsible for some bad shift going down. I kinda hope more incidents like Riley and Telford don't occur before he realises that maybe he's doing the wrong thing.

The greater good my friend. Rush will not kill everyone on the ship to get to his goals, but he certainly will push the envelope.


Speaking of, Telford was the MVP tonight. Dude was spot on with his calling out of Young, while staying supportive and mostly on the level. Sacrificing himself I saw coming as soon as the option arose, but since I wouldn't have expected him to do something like that this time last year, it's good that he's changed so much in my eyes and able to be thought of as a heroic sacrificer. Wray was pretty cool too - I get where she's coming from with the humane angle, and she isn't suffocating me with it, at least.

The ending was excelllent, and yeah Telford was the MVP in this episode. It leaves a lot of mystery what will happen to him, and who these alien guys are.


The Lucian Alliance angle is interesting. Man, that prick Simeon must have a lot of intel - why the hell would they keep him on the ship? Jeez... Varro is awesome. I think the guy's sympathetic levels are increasing by the episode, and he's actually kinda sweet to TJ, which is awesome. Ginn didn't appear much, but dammit all if her little puppy dog routine at the sound of ancient tech wasn't just the most adorable thing I've seen this year... Followed by the little brown alien playing possum. D'awww...

I like Varro, hope he is around for many more eps.


Scott being all Daniel Jackson-y to the alien was epic times a million (Dude's a soft touch. It's kinda nice compared to the rest of the military). I love that Chloe's mysterious leg wound thing is getting explored some more, little seeds being planted as we go... Should be fun.

Yeah it felt like SG-1 all over again, and then the alien just chillin there looking all cute. Even though they stunned Rush they still don't seem vicious like the Smurf aliens. They might even become allies, who knows.



Great episode, one that may just become one of my favourites down the track.

Totally Agree!

LoneStar1836
October 13th, 2010, 10:33 AM
So far so good. The trend of good episodes continues.


Loved:

- Telford. Thought he was great in this ep., especially his conversations with Young. Don't think this is the last we've seen of him or I certainly hope it's not as I've liked the Telford character since the beginning.

Liked:

- The new aliens. Think that we might eventually work with these guys. Gotta ally with some one eventually. I liked that they turned the tables and took what they needed from Destiny.

- The building Rush/Young confrontation. Rush better be preparing for what he'll do and where he'll hide because the **** is going to hit the fan when an unhinged Young finds out what he's been doing.

Rush is my favorite character, but I can't look past his secret keeping this time. Where as I thought last week's situation was certainly debatable and no more Rush's fault than anyone else's. This week it did cost them Telford since knowledge of the bridge would have greatly aided them.

- Most of the rest of the ep, though I did feel that some of the LA stuff felt out of place. I guess they need to keep that thread moving with T-Bag and that other guy for whatever resolution they are building to with them, but meh in this ep. T-Bag must have some valuable intel because otherwise Telford hasn't seen Prison Break...that guy's trouble and should have been dumped with the rest.

Unimpressed:

-The seeder ship. A bunch of narrow corridors...umm okay I guess. Suppose it would be more utilitarian in nature considering its purpose. I couldn't even really get a good look at the shot of all the stargates as it was too dark a shot. I was with Rush not finding it all that interesting even though I wanted to.

Disliked:

- The music montage...again. I rolled my eyes. Montage...fine. Song choice...meh. Give me some good instrumental score.


I'm not going to say bring on next week's ep because I'm no fan of Chloe. :P It's actually been nice that she has barely even been in these first three....but it could be more interesting than I imagine.

Briangate78
October 13th, 2010, 10:45 AM
I think the music montages are getting old, but it was a good enough ep to not even pay mind to it. I was still thinking what will happen with Telford and the other seeder ship and those new aliens. That is what I've always loved about Stargate, introducing new aliens and wondering if they will be friend or foe.

Kaiphantom
October 13th, 2010, 10:47 AM
yeah Telford was the MVP in this episode. It leaves a lot of mystery what will happen to him, and who these alien guys are.

You know, I almost consider it ironic. For once, Destiny finally has someone in authority with common sense who can begin to bring some sanity and rational decision making back... and they had to get rid of him. The real reason? Because he would have brought sanity back. He would have "killed Young" to rescue his friend. He probably would have figured out what Rush was up to (because he's one of the few without issues); at least that Rush was hiding something. If he were in command, he'd probably do a better job compromising/keeping Rush in line, too.

So, that's the real reason TPTB kicked Telford off. It allows them to keep the drama llamas grazing on Destiny, and not resolve issues. That's how you keep a SOAP OPERA IN SPAAAAACE going. :P

ciannwn
October 13th, 2010, 10:51 AM
Unimpressed:

-The seeder ship. A bunch of narrow corridors...umm okay I guess. Suppose it would be more utilitarian in nature considering its purpose. I couldn't even really get a good look at the shot of all the stargates as it was too dark a shot. I was with Rush not finding it all that interesting even though I wanted to.

Does that mean we don't get details about how stargates are manufactured and put on planets or where the seeder ship gets it's raw materials for gate making from?

Arative
October 13th, 2010, 10:58 AM
First thought that popped into my head was the brown aliens were a race created by the ancients to care for the ship when the ship experiences problems. Sort of like the race created to work on the Citadel in Mass Effect.

LoneStar1836
October 13th, 2010, 10:59 AM
I think the music montages are getting old, but it was a good enough ep to not even pay mind to it. I was still thinking what will happen with Telford and the other seeder ship and those new aliens. That is what I've always loved about Stargate, introducing new aliens and wondering if they will be friend or foe.I think they are getting old as well. I get why they do them, and it is a nice quick way to get in several story points, but we just had one last week.


Does that mean we don't get details about how stargates are manufactured and put on planets or where the seeder ship gets it's raw materials for gate making from?Yep. No details in this ep.

I'm guessing it might be forthcoming in future eps as Destiny did download a bunch of data from the seeder that would need translating, but no answers in this ep.



First thought that popped into my head was the brown aliens were a race created by the ancients to care for the ship when the ship experiences problems. Sort of like the race created to work on the Citadel in Mass Effect.That would be neat if that were the case. I liked how the ones in Mass Effect were used.

ciannwn
October 13th, 2010, 11:03 AM
Yep. No details in this ep.

:(


I'm guessing it might be forthcoming in future eps as Destiny did download a bunch of data from the seeder that would need translating,

I hope it's in the future otherwise I'm going to feel a bit cheated.

leiasky
October 13th, 2010, 11:27 AM
You know, I almost consider it ironic. For once, Destiny finally has someone in authority with common sense who can begin to bring some sanity and rational decision making back... and they had to get rid of him. The real reason? Because he would have brought sanity back. He would have "killed Young" to rescue his friend. He probably would have figured out what Rush was up to (because he's one of the few without issues); at least that Rush was hiding something. If he were in command, he'd probably do a better job compromising/keeping Rush in line, too.

So, that's the real reason TPTB kicked Telford off. It allows them to keep the drama llamas grazing on Destiny, and not resolve issues. That's how you keep a SOAP OPERA IN SPAAAAACE going. :P

Bwahahaha. I - kinda agree with you:)


Does that mean we don't get details about how stargates are manufactured and put on planets or where the seeder ship gets it's raw materials for gate making from?


I really wanted that info, too and felt cheated that we didn't get it.

Mr. Jack
October 13th, 2010, 11:28 AM
I think Rush was indirectly responsible for the death of Riley. He knew about the atmospheric phenomena of the planet that he was sending people to and was confident that they would make it through until Brody brought up the idea that millions of years could cause wear and tear on the shuttle; something he didn't account for. He then knew there was a risk to the crew but decided to let them go anyway for the sake of finding food.

Young didn't know about the atmospheric conditions. All he really knew was that the Stargate was inoperative which, from what past experience tells me, could have been inoperable for an infinite amount of reasons. He didn't know there could be an atmospheric condition that could have been a danger to the shuttle itself. He made a call which at the time he thought there would be minimal risk to the shuttle crew.

In this episode, though, I don't believe Rush was being the bad guy. Rush didn't know:
a. If the aliens could reverse power again as soon as Telford got it flowing back to the Destiny.
b. If Telford would even figure it out in time.

At that point the aliens had nearly complete control of the ship with the ability to lock the Destiny's crew out of it so he didn't know there could be a second chance. He made a call which saved them all from being stranded.

I've always identified both Rush and Young's characters as morally grey. Their emotions drive their responses. Rush's main is definitely lust.

On another note, I loved this episode! Seriously, even though Universe is a whole different deal then both the other series, I'm starting to get the sense of awe and mystery I haven't felt since I first watched the early Stargate SG-1 episodes or first season of Atlantis. Hope this show will pick up more of a following.

blueray
October 13th, 2010, 11:29 AM
i liked this episode. it was good to finally get to see more aliens (was i the only one thinking i wish they would get daniel on board when they were trying to talk to it?). telford definetly will be back, hopefully they wait a few episodes for his return. i had a feeling rush would be the one to pull them away from the other ship. i still hope that he tells someone (eli) about the bridge, because it would be interesting to have someone else know. over all good episode, season 2 has been much better than season 1.

Galileo_Galilee
October 13th, 2010, 11:35 AM
Telford will be back.

And I still think those aliens on the seeder ship have something to do with blue aliens.

I don't believe they're the original crew of the seeder ship.

Lahela
October 13th, 2010, 11:54 AM
Love the stream of anti-Rush jibes here - yeah, he inadvertently got two guys killed and that makes him the bane of all humanity, unlike Young 'coz, wow, Young is so damned great he's never risked anybody, EVA!!!, has he? Oh... except for everyone who died when he gave control of the ship to the LA.

For the sake of all that's sparkly, just accept that nobody on the ship is perfect, that they all screw up, and you'll find the whole deal much easier to cope with. ;)

Great ep. :) Very sad about losing Telford (I knew he was goner as soon as he went on the ship, but the TV refused to listen to my pleas of, "No, don't let anything happen to Telford!") but the threads of so many stories continue to be unravelled bit by bit and it's excellent.

UniverseSizePlotHole
October 13th, 2010, 12:02 PM
Hey what did Telford mean by "can't blame me for trying?"

Well he tried to give support to Emily and that worked out great didn't it LOL Can't blame a man for trying!

PG15
October 13th, 2010, 12:54 PM
Do you know something we don't? It looked like the stop was automated.. NOT something he programmed in.


I'll admit it's up for interpretation. From my POV it seems that Rush saw that Destiny was approaching a Seedship, and so made Destiny drop out of FTL so they can check it out; that's why Volker said it was odd that Destiny jumped out again, and why Rush was so nonchalant when Destiny approached the seed ship.

That's just my view though.




If it helped tell the story, you'd have a point. I will admit that some of them have been decent, but most have been bad and the story has suffered for it. Opportunity cost; when you include a montage, you can't include scenes where the characters explain info that might be helpful (and there are always scenes left on the cutting room floor). For instance, Chloe's wound should have been addressed last episode; I bet quite a few people were going "Wait, they are only getting around to people talking about Chloe's wound NOW!?"

But that is all irrelevant. I specifically stated that music montages is what they think is telling a good story. Whatever you (or anyone) thinks of it is not important in this discussion.

So, if they think it's good, then they don't need the extra incentive of being paid to use them.

It's just a tad insulting to me to insinuate a selling out when it could be based purely on creative reasons. I mean, why go there at all?

As for the blame thing, I'm kinda tired of it. I think I'll just say that clearly none of them wanted any of this to happen, and more than a lot of it can be "blamed" on a bad situation. Both Rush and Young (and Telford) had a hand in these events, and the severity and "quantity" of their actions that led to them is clearly up for debate. No one is innocent.

I will also say this though: "anyone would've done it" is not a good argument for me. Sure, anyone would've done it, but it was specifically Rush/Young who did those things. Whatever could've happened is not nearly as important as what did happen, and what happened was Rush and Young doing various things that unfortunately led to bad stuff happening.

Ssuper Kyle
October 13th, 2010, 12:58 PM
Does that mean we don't get details about how stargates are manufactured and put on planets or where the seeder ship gets it's raw materials for gate making from?

In real life all elements in the universe are contained in stars. So with that said, the way the destiny collects power could be the same way the seeder ship collects materials.

beafly
October 13th, 2010, 01:01 PM
Does that mean we don't get details about how stargates are manufactured and put on planets or where the seeder ship gets it's raw materials for gate making from?


No details that I saw.

Commander Zelix
October 13th, 2010, 01:23 PM
I'll admit it's up for interpretation. From my POV it seems that Rush saw that Destiny was approaching a Seedship, and so made Destiny drop out of FTL so they can check it out; that's why Volker said it was odd that Destiny jumped out again, and why Rush was so nonchalant when Destiny approached the seed ship.

That's just my view though.

That is the way I saw it too. Rush is really controlling the ship now. This gives him great power over what's happening to the crew. Young and co are practically simply doing the missions and visiting the planets chosen by Rush.

He's the master behind the curtains pulling the string.

He may be happy to learn he already caused two sacrifices. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. All those are outweighed by the needs of Dr. Rush.

Kaiphantom
October 13th, 2010, 01:42 PM
But that is all irrelevant. I specifically stated that music montages is what they think is telling a good story. Whatever you (or anyone) thinks of it is not important in this discussion.

So, if they think it's good, then they don't need the extra incentive of being paid to use them.

I'd argue what we think is important. We're the viewers. If you tell a bad story, the ratings go down and your show gets canceled. Unless TPTB like JM really don't care if SGU gets renewed or not, then they very well should care what we think. But I've seen this same pattern repeated over and over; they care at the beginning of the franchise, but they slowly evolve to the "We're god, and we think goes should go. You don't know a good story. We're the only ones who can judge." And then they wonder why when it dies due to people leaving.

You have to please your audience. If your story can't do that, then it is time to redo some things.


It's just a tad insulting to me to insinuate a selling out when it could be based purely on creative reasons. I mean, why go there at all?

Seriously? This forum is based on speculation. You yourself have put forth your own theories as to various happenings on the show. And I'm just saying how businesses go; if you want to get upset at that, then focus your anger on the practice, not on the person telling you how it is. Granted, we don't know the specifics of the contract details, so it's just my own impression based on how things usually go in the industry.


I will also say this though: "anyone would've done it" is not a good argument for me. Sure, anyone would've done it, but it was specifically Rush/Young who did those things. Whatever could've happened is not nearly as important as what did happen, and what happened was Rush and Young doing various things that unfortunately led to bad stuff happening.

This really sounds like an attempt to backpedal. If anyone would have done it, then you can't really blame someone for doing it. And hindsight is 20/20, which is where you are coming from. At the start, we didn't know what would happen. Given all the data beforehand, I can at least admit that I would still send the shuttle, because the need for supplies overrides the possibility of danger.

And this is still a question that people are refusing to answer: In their situation, and with the limited data you had, would you order the shuttle to go for more supplies? I mean, I understand why people are hesitant to answer; because they would, and that would mean they would be in Rush/Young's position and would have to blame themselves, and they don't want to. Life is a risk; get over it.

The next person to whine about Rush (or Young, much as I don't care for him), really needs to answer that question. If they don't, I'll call them out as the hypocrite they are.

ciannwn
October 13th, 2010, 01:43 PM
In real life all elements in the universe are contained in stars. So with that said, the way the destiny collects power could be the same way the seeder ship collects materials.

Aren't stargates made out of naquadah, a mineral contained in an ore which is mined? I'm just hoping TPTB aren't going to leave the fans to try figuring it out. After all, TPTB invented this stargate seeding ship so they ought to have some idea of how it works. :P

Egle01
October 13th, 2010, 01:59 PM
the TV refused to listen to my pleasDon't you just hate when it happens? ;)

Skygate
October 13th, 2010, 02:32 PM
One big thing I've learned in life is that fault rarely belongs to one person alone. So you're partially right; my biggest beef is with those who try to claim it was all Rush's fault; last I checked, it wasn't Rush who had his hand over Riley's mouth. But you have to be careful with the "who got the ball rolling" thing, because we can keep going back farther and farther to see who got the ball rolling. Let's go back to the SGC who created the Icarus Project. Or the SGC that sent Telford into the LA that allowed him to be brainwashed. Or the LA for attacking the planet. Or let let's go farther back and blame the SGC who first activated the gate and sent a team through.

They all "got the ball rolling."

Young bears more direct responsibility for Riley's death. Young picked the team that would go, and ordered them to go. So Riley being on that ship in the first place was Young's fault. But I find it hilarious to try and blame Rush for a decision that everyone here would have made. Supplies are low and you are given the chance to go to a planet to replenish them. So your choices are eventual starvation, or a risky chance. Every damn planet the SGC or the SGU teams have gone to, has had risk and chances of death. And due to bad luck or whatever, people have died.

To blame Rush for giving them a chance is beyond stupid. If you truly believe this, then you obviously must believe that ever going through the gate is too dangerous, and everyone should forevermore stay on the ship. In fact, don't leave your house. Stay in the basement. Even though I'm telling you that you need to go out to get more food, you don't know what will happen; you could die. And if you do die, I'm at fault for telling you that you could possibly get food in the outside world when you are starving.

See how stupid that is?

Riley was already dead!

The damage had already been done at that point. What would you have Young do? Have Riley suffer till his death, against Riley's wishes?

Who stopped the ship that at that planet, a planet Destiny had no business being anywher near, because he wanted to do a little "experiment"?

Who lied to Young and the rest of crew about why Destiny stopped at that planet, telling them that it itself stopped there because he "told" it they needed food and water and not because it stoppped there not under its own volition?

Who neglected to look at the readings of the planet's dangerous biosphere untill his "visions" alerted him to it long after the shuttle had left, readings only he had full knowledge of after that point?

Who personally put the fate of the entire crew in his hands without their knowledge or consent?

Again, like I've been saying, of course there's always risk when going off-world. What there shouldn't be is unnecessary risk, especially unnecessary risk based on faulty information given by and generated through events initiated by someone wanting to play "king" without the awareness or consent of those involved putting their lives on the line.


WE have seen in prior SG eps that the gate locks out one that is buried (or gone as in SGA season 2 on the lava planet).. So how was he lying why it was locked.

I should have worded that better. He lied about why Destiny stopped there. See above.

Kaiphantom
October 13th, 2010, 02:41 PM
Again, like I've been saying, of course there's always risk when going off-world. What there shouldn't be is unnecessary risk, especially unnecessary risk based on faulty information given by and generated through events initiated by someone wanting to play "king" without the awareness or consent of those involved putting their lives on the line.

Sorry, but since you didn't answer the question, this makes you look a bit hypocritical. Until such time as you answer, we will be forced to conclude that you really don't blame Rush after all, and just don't want to admit it.

mi_guard
October 13th, 2010, 02:41 PM
Who stopped the ship that at that planet, a planet Destiny had no business being anywher near, because he wanted to do a little "experiment"?

Who lied to Young and the rest of crew about why Destiny stopped at that planet, telling them that it itself stopped there because he "told" it they needed food and water and not because it stoppped there not under its own volition?


I do not think that Rush wanted to do an experiment. They were really in need of food and water and I am sure he really thought that they could find them on the planet. In any case it was worth trying. Looking back it showed to be the wrong decision, but if you risk to starve, you would be prepared to take more risks than you would in 'normal' conditions.

Kaiphantom
October 13th, 2010, 02:45 PM
I do not think that Rush wanted to do an experiment. They were really in need of food and water and I am sure he really thought that they could find them on the planet. In any case it was worth trying. Looking back it showed to be the wrong decision, but if you risk to starve, you would be prepared to take more risks than you would in 'normal' conditions.

Thank you. Some people here realize it.The real truth is, anyone placed in that situation with the choice to starve, or to take a risk, would have taken the risk. That's the dirty little secret people who bash Rush over this don't want to admit. Yes, he's a douche for not telling people about the bridge, and he bears some responsibility, but the choice he made is one everyone here would have made.

It's kinda like trying to pin 9/11 on Bush. Really, there are better things you can bash Bush for, but trying to stick him for this one just hurts your cause and makes you look a little crazy. Stick to the better stuff and you'll have a more solid case.

blueray
October 13th, 2010, 02:54 PM
i don't blame rush for riley's death. he did what he did because they needed food and water, which that planet might have had (it was also the only one within range). as for not telling the crew about the bridge, i can see that would be a bad idea since young especially was dealing with the la. and you don't want them knowing about the bridge. as i've said on other threads i hope that he tells eli.

Cairistiona
October 13th, 2010, 03:14 PM
I don't blame Rush for Rileys death either. I assume such things can happen when you try to land on an alien planet.
I liked the ep, found it really creepy when they were looking around at the seeder ship and the aliens were hiding there. But maybe I've read it to much, my first thought about the gate manufactering room was 'Magrathea'! :o

mi_guard
October 13th, 2010, 03:20 PM
I don't blame Rush for Rileys death either. I assume such things can happen when you try to land on an alien planet.
I liked the ep, found it really creepy when they were looking around at the seeder ship and the aliens were hiding there. But maybe I've read it to much, my first thought about the gate manufactering room was 'Magrathea'! :o

Magrathea - it is from the 'Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy', correct? the planet builders? :D

joeynox
October 13th, 2010, 03:24 PM
I've watched every episode of stargate sg1/sga and now sgu and wanted to know when did we start calling sgc homeworld command? Maybe i missed it?

jelgate
October 13th, 2010, 03:27 PM
Love the stream of anti-Rush jibes here - yeah, he inadvertently got two guys killed and that makes him the bane of all humanity, unlike Young 'coz, wow, Young is so damned great he's never risked anybody, EVA!!!, has he? Oh... except for everyone who died when he gave control of the ship to the LA.

For the sake of all that's sparkly, just accept that nobody on the ship is perfect, that they all screw up, and you'll find the whole deal much easier to cope with. ;)

Great ep. :) Very sad about losing Telford (I knew he was goner as soon as he went on the ship, but the TV refused to listen to my pleas of, "No, don't let anything happen to Telford!") but the threads of so many stories continue to be unravelled bit by bit and it's excellent.

Its about time you caught on. :P

And surely BAG is perfect. My stance is is that Rush witholding of information is a significant factor of Riley and Telford being stranded. Maybe not 100% blame be he has a huge fault

Ssuper Kyle
October 13th, 2010, 03:34 PM
Aren't stargates made out of naquadah, a mineral contained in an ore which is mined? I'm just hoping TPTB aren't going to leave the fans to try figuring it out. After all, TPTB invented this stargate seeding ship so they ought to have some idea of how it works. :P

Yea, its mined once a planet is formed. Planets are made our of the raw materials that are caught in the gravitational pull of its parent star when other stars super nova and blast it out into space.

Petra
October 13th, 2010, 03:50 PM
Ok, I've had enough. I'll write down my thoughts about Awakening later, right now I'll just answer this:


I'd argue what we think is important. We're the viewers.

Correction: we are a fraction of viewers. And we are certainly not representative of general audience by the mere fact that we care enough to spend time on the forum arguing about details casual viewers don't even notice. I just love some fans' ego that has them thinking that TPTB should cater to the needs and wants of on-line fandom. :rolleyes: And since you are so keen on demanding answers from others, please enlighten us: which group of fans should TPTB listen to? My vision of the show is completely different from yours, so which one of us should be given attention from TPTB? Why should they change their show according to my wishes and not yours (or the other way around)? Well?


Seriously? This forum is based on speculation. You yourself have put forth your own theories as to various happenings on the show. And I'm just saying how businesses go; if you want to get upset at that, then focus your anger on the practice, not on the person telling you how it is. Granted, we don't know the specifics of the contract details, so it's just my own impression based on how things usually go in the industry.

There's a difference between fun speculation about the show and about what goes on behind the scenes. Since you admit yourself we don't know the details of the contracts, speculating on them is in bad taste really.


And this is still a question that people are refusing to answer: In their situation, and with the limited data you had, would you order the shuttle to go for more supplies? I mean, I understand why people are hesitant to answer; because they would, and that would mean they would be in Rush/Young's position and would have to blame themselves, and they don't want to. Life is a risk; get over it.


Fine, I'll answer your little pet question: I don't know. It's easy to say "Sure I would" or "Sure I wouldn't" sitting safely at home in front of your computer with stocked fridge and kitchen nearby. I have a rule: I never make definitive statements or pass judgement on situations I haven't experienced myself. So, not being on Destiny with limited supplies, I don't kknow what I'd do. I do know one thing though: if I decided to go, I would go myself, not send others in my place.

Now that I answered, let me tell you that in every post you repeat the same thing over and over completely missing the point. Some folks - myself included - don't think Rush is partly responsible for Riley's death because he send the shuttle for food, but because he started playing God deciding who can know what and when. He doesn't like nor trust Young, so he never gave him all the needed information. I find it pretty hilarious that you defend Rush until you are blue in the face while claiming that the crash was Young's fault because he made the decision. Decision based on incomplete information - that is Rush's fault. He's not in charge, he doesn't have the right to make such decisions on his own. If Young knew all the facts maybe he would have turned the shuttle around. Maybe there would have been thorough check up, maybe some repairs could have been made that would have prevented the crash. We don't know, and we'll never know because Rush was arrogant enough to think he had everything under control.


Thank you. Some people here realize it.The real truth is, anyone placed in that situation with the choice to starve, or to take a risk, would have taken the risk. That's the dirty little secret people who bash Rush over this don't want to admit. Yes, he's a douche for not telling people about the bridge, and he bears some responsibility, but the choice he made is one everyone here would have made.

I'd appreciate it if you stopped calling anyone who dares to criticise Rush a basher. Clearly you have no idea what bashing is and are one of those oversensitive folks who equal critique with bashing. Well, I read this whole thread and no one here bashed Rush. In fact, your criticisms of Young have been far harsher than anything anyone here said about Rush.

If you feel there was any bashing going on, report it to the Mods. Otherwise, stop insulting other posters.

morbosfist
October 13th, 2010, 04:28 PM
What's absurd about this is that Rush admits his own responsibility. How can you argue with that? The man himself knows it was his fault.

Eternal Density
October 13th, 2010, 04:34 PM
That was an enjoyable episode. I sure wasn't expecting Telford to be left behind. He had some great scenes! Looking forward to seeing how he pulls off a return (because regardless of spoilers there's no way that's the end of him.)

Nice to see a bit more of the Chloe arc and the LA arc. And the pack up/lights off scene of Riley's room was touching.

Also, doing squats is the new reading!

Kaiphantom
October 13th, 2010, 04:42 PM
Correction: we are a fraction of viewers. And we are certainly not representative of general audience by the mere fact that we care enough to spend time on the forum arguing about details casual viewers don't even notice. I just love some fans' ego that has them thinking that TPTB should cater to the needs and wants of on-line fandom. :rolleyes: And since you are so keen on demanding answers from others, please enlighten us: which group of fans should TPTB listen to? My vision of the show is completely different from yours, so which one of us should be given attention from TPTB? Why should they change their show according to my wishes and not yours (or the other way around)? Well?

I appreciate your response, but you're missing the point I'm making. I'm not saying who they should listen to, but have you ever heard of representative samples? When you're polling people, you never sample the whole population. Yes, we're here because we care more... and thus we're also the ones who will get others to watch, thereby raising the ratings(there's a thread in the main SGU forum about this very topic). If TPTB can't please the core fanbase, they'll find their numbers going down.

To answer your question, I do believe the TPTB should get a read on what the majority of their fans are saying; forums and polls are both decent ways to get that information. It's a smart move for any company or studio to make the changes that will please their fans, especially if they are ones that won't affect the story they want to tell (such as less music montages, which it appears a growing majority of people are beginning to think are overused).


There's a difference between fun speculation about the show and about what goes on behind the scenes. Since you admit yourself we don't know the details of the contracts, speculating on them is in bad taste really.

So, your opinion is... that I shouldn't share my opinion. A bit hypocritical, don't you think? I think you're attempt to stifle honest discussion is in bad taste. See how easy that is?


Fine, I'll answer your little pet question: I don't know. It's easy to say "Sure I would" or "Sure I wouldn't" sitting safely at home in front of your computer with stocked fridge and kitchen nearby. I have a rule: I never make definitive statements or pass judgement on situations I haven't experienced myself. So, not being on Destiny with limited supplies, I don't kknow what I'd do. I do know one thing though: if I decided to go, I would go myself, not send others in my place.

Thank you for answering. But if you don't know how you'd respond... doesn't that say something about whether you can pass judgment on someone who did make the decision? It sounds suspiciously like you want to answer without actually answering, but this would be speculation on my point, and thus I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps in the hopes it will be returned.

But as I said, I used that question to expose the real truth: most everyone would have taken the risk to go to the planet to get supplies, rather than face the prospect of starving. Which means it is hypocritical to dislike someone for a decision they themselves would have made. And they probably did get supplies after all, since they were able to dial back, and probably sent some people out to get some food and water. We don't know how long they were there, but they don't seem to be talking about how they are short on supplies anymore.

Thus, Rush isn't responsible for Riley's death anymore than almost anyone else. Young, Riley, and plain old bad luck hand their hand in the pot, among other things.


Now that I answered, let me tell you that in every post you repeat the same thing over and over completely missing the point. Some folks - myself included - don't think Rush is partly responsible for Riley's death because he send the shuttle for food, but because he started playing God deciding who can know what and when.

Good, we're making some progress here, because you're the first person I've seen to actually use a different justification here. So it's not that I missed any point; it just was never stated. But given on how badly Young screwed up, and continues to screw up, and with the LA still on the ship (and an obvious bad LA guy among them still), there's probably some damn good justification for keeping the bridge secret. And with Wray on the ship, once she knows, everyone else would know. I still think it's a bad move, but I acknowledge there is a pragmatic reason. On a ship of fools, who do you trust? If the LA tried again (gating from the Milky Way with another assault team, that you have to believe is a possibility), Rush knowing about the bridge, and thus being able to take control away from them, is a good thing. Once someone else knows, though, the jig is up.

Yes, shame on you Rush for playing God by giving us a chance for more supplies and protecting us from ourselves! Don't help us ever again!


He doesn't like nor trust Young, so he never gave him all the needed information.

Does it matter? Honestly, what difference would it have made? Part of it is that Rush didn't see everything, and only learned about some of the other conditions when Franklin and Gloria told him, AFTER the shuttle left. People in the Core room should have been able to scan the planet just as well, so why didn't Eli, Park, Brody, or Volker say anything? If we're gonna blame Rush, we'll have to blame them, too. Or maybe they aren't that smart after all, and Rush has a point? Who knows.


I find it pretty hilarious that you defend Rush until you are blue in the face while claiming that the crash was Young's fault because he made the decision. Decision based on incomplete information - that is Rush's fault. He's not in charge, he doesn't have the right to make such decisions on his own. If Young knew all the facts maybe he would have turned the shuttle around. Maybe there would have been thorough check up, maybe some repairs could have been made that would have prevented the crash. We don't know, and we'll never know because Rush was arrogant enough to think he had everything under control.

Again, you're missing the point. I'll bash Rush myself for plenty of things; I don't defend him so much, as I defend accurate accusations (if you really read my posts, you would have seen this). I, and many others, just happen to think this isn't a fair complaint to lodge against him. I'll repeat: They needed supplies. There were no other planets coming up. This was the only chance. They deal with danger everyday, and there are always risks and people who may not come back alive. Rush gave them a chance, although I'll agree he didn't quite go about it in the best way. And you're completely missing everyone else who could have told Young about the planet.

It's true we won't know everything, but I am amused; because I feel that if Rush didn't stop the ship, and they arrived a point where everyone was starting to starve, perhaps posters on this forum, or the Gloria persona, might have been telling him, "You should have stopped the ship at the planet, Rush, instead of selfishly not risking the shuttle or personnel. You made a bad call." In other words, damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't.


I'd appreciate it if you stopped calling anyone who dares to criticise Rush a basher. Clearly you have no idea what bashing is and are one of those oversensitive folks who equal critique with bashing. Well, I read this whole thread and no one here bashed Rush. In fact, your criticisms of Young have been far harsher than anything anyone here said about Rush.

My criticisms of Young have have been deliberate; it's called mirroring to prove a point. But yeah, when people deliberately lie and spread misinformation about a character, I do call that bashing. I am simply pointing out why certain people are being hypocritical or untruthful.

IE, it's largely Rush's fault they are all stranded on Destiny in the first place, since he dialed the 9 chevron address instead of another planet. That's a valid complaint. I wouldn't care if someone said "I don't like Rush because he did that." Like I said, you're blaming Bush for 9/11. There are many reasons to dislike Bush, but focusing on that just kinda makes you look... silly.

Skygate
October 13th, 2010, 05:44 PM
I do not think that Rush wanted to do an experiment. They were really in need of food and water and I am sure he really thought that they could find them on the planet. In any case it was worth trying. Looking back it showed to be the wrong decision, but if you risk to starve, you would be prepared to take more risks than you would in 'normal' conditions.


Thank you. Some people here realize it.The real truth is, anyone placed in that situation with the choice to starve, or to take a risk, would have taken the risk. That's the dirty little secret people who bash Rush over this don't want to admit. Yes, he's a douche for not telling people about the bridge, and he bears some responsibility, but the choice he made is one everyone here would have made.

It's kinda like trying to pin 9/11 on Bush. Really, there are better things you can bash Bush for, but trying to stick him for this one just hurts your cause and makes you look a little crazy. Stick to the better stuff and you'll have a more solid case.


But as I said, I used that question to expose the real truth: most everyone would have taken the risk to go to the planet to get supplies, rather than face the prospect of starving. Which means it is hypocritical to dislike someone for a decision they themselves would have made. And they probably did get supplies after all, since they were able to dial back, and probably sent some people out to get some food and water. We don't know how long they were there, but they don't seem to be talking about how they are short on supplies anymore.

Thus, Rush isn't responsible for Riley's death anymore than almost anyone else. Young, Riley, and plain old bad luck hand their hand in the pot, among other things.



Good, we're making some progress here, because you're the first person I've seen to actually use a different justification here. So it's not that I missed any point; it just was never stated. But given on how badly Young screwed up, and continues to screw up, and with the LA still on the ship (and an obvious bad LA guy among them still), there's probably some damn good justification for keeping the bridge secret. And with Wray on the ship, once she knows, everyone else would know. I still think it's a bad move, but I acknowledge there is a pragmatic reason. On a ship of fools, who do you trust? If the LA tried again (gating from the Milky Way with another assault team, that you have to believe is a possibility), Rush knowing about the bridge, and thus being able to take control away from them, is a good thing. Once someone else knows, though, the jig is up.

Yes, shame on you Rush for playing God by giving us a chance for more supplies and protecting us from ourselves! Don't help us ever again!



Does it matter? Honestly, what difference would it have made? Part of it is that Rush didn't see everything, and only learned about some of the other conditions when Franklin and Gloria told him, AFTER the shuttle left. People in the Core room should have been able to scan the planet just as well, so why didn't Eli, Park, Brody, or Volker say anything? If we're gonna blame Rush, we'll have to blame them, too. Or maybe they aren't that smart after all, and Rush has a point? Who knows.



Again, you're missing the point. I'll bash Rush myself for plenty of things; I don't defend him so much, as I defend accurate accusations (if you really read my posts, you would have seen this). I, and many others, just happen to think this isn't a fair complaint to lodge against him. I'll repeat: They needed supplies. There were no other planets coming up. This was the only chance. They deal with danger everyday, and there are always risks and people who may not come back alive. Rush gave them a chance, although I'll agree he didn't quite go about it in the best way. And you're completely missing everyone else who could have told Young about the planet.

It's true we won't know everything, but I am amused; because I feel that if Rush didn't stop the ship, and they arrived a point where everyone was starting to starve, perhaps posters on this forum, or the Gloria persona, might have been telling him, "You should have stopped the ship at the planet, Rush, instead of selfishly not risking the shuttle or personnel. You made a bad call." In other words, damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't.



My criticisms of Young have have been deliberate; it's called mirroring to prove a point. But yeah, when people deliberately lie and spread misinformation about a character, I do call that bashing. I am simply pointing out why certain people are being hypocritical or untruthful.

IE, it's largely Rush's fault they are all stranded on Destiny in the first place, since he dialed the 9 chevron address instead of another planet. That's a valid complaint. I wouldn't care if someone said "I don't like Rush because he did that." Like I said, you're blaming Bush for 9/11. There are many reasons to dislike Bush, but focusing on that just kinda makes you look... silly.

This doesn't excuse Rush randomly stopping Destiny at a planet without letting anyone else know about it.

This doesn't excuse Rush overlooking the bridge's readings of the planet's dangerous biosphere (until his "visions" had to alert him to it) until way after the fact, and then still witholding the full details of that information from everyone else (only warning the people on the shuttle about it and then telling the shuttle group something in the vein of "you might encounter a little turbulence").

And this most definitely doesn't excuse Rush forcing everyone into a limited and unnecessary timetable by not preventing Destiny from jumping when he could and should have, just to cover his own ass.

Here's the key thing. The crew trusts Destiny more than they trust Rush.

They trust Destiny because Destiny has always been right. Whenerver Destiny by itself stops at a planet, that planet ends up having the resources the crew needs. Surpirse suprise, this one didn't.

So it's a pretty BIG deal when Rush lies and tells them that Destiny stopped at that planet under it's own violition, especially because he said he "told" it they needed food and water.

That's the unnecessary risk I'm talking about. General Hammond made damn sure his teams didn't go on misions without full and proper intel. Rush was worried about food and water? That doesn't matter. If he was truly worried about the well-being of the crew and thier survival he would have let them in on the situation. Again, it's Destiny that the crew trusts. If the crew knew that it wasn't Destiny's AI that stopped there, then they could have voiced their worries or disagreements, or planned the mission out better, given this info.

Rush didn't give them that opportunity.

Plus, where does the LA knowing about anything factor into this? They were all held captive in the brig at that point, not in the control rooom or anywhere else on the ship (and they all ended up dumped from the ship, with a few only staying there due to direct orders from Homeworld Command). There was plenty of opportunity to tell the crew.

And the 9/11 analogy is terrible. Bush didn't target the highjackers towards the WTC or the Pentagon (and without informing anyone else that he did), nor did he withold key information involving the operation.

Generic Blue
October 13th, 2010, 05:47 PM
well watch past that first commercial and BAM inside, in fact i was dissapointed i couldnt see more outside shots, but the ones with destiny attached to it are pretty cool, it would have been cool if that is what destiny looked like from here on out

Commander Zelix
October 13th, 2010, 06:12 PM
A lot of people are talking about Rush decision to not tell is crewmate about having found the bridge. But one of the most shocking decision of Rush is not telling them that the gate ship had enough power to gate back to earth. He even has a conversation with his wife hallucination about it.

I also like the way he was really adamant of being the one taking care of the transfer back on the gate ship until the last minute placing himself in the position to be the last to leave the Destiny for earth...or not.

Kaiphantom
October 13th, 2010, 06:21 PM
This doesn't excuse Rush randomly stopping Destiny at a planet without letting anyone else know about it.

This is a valid criticism. Good!


This doesn't excuse Rush overlooking the bridge's readings of the planet's dangerous biosphere (until his "visions" had to alert him to it) until way after the fact, and then still witholding the full details of that information from everyone else (only warning the people on the shuttle about it and then telling the shuttle group something in the vein of "you might encounter a little turbulence").

Lack of sleep and nightmares due to torture would be mitigating factors in how Rush missed some of the signs of the planet's biosphere. Things he didn't realize until much later after the shuttle had left. And, as I've stated, if you're going to levy this criticism, then you must apply it to Eli, Brody, Volker, and Park. They could have scanned the planet from the core room, so why didn't they say anything?


And this most definitely doesn't excuse Rush forcing everyone into a limited and unnecessary timetable by not preventing Destiny from jumping when he could and should have, just to cover his own ass.

Non-valid criticism. Rush himself has said he can't yet control how long the ship stops for. He can't prevent the ship from jumping; he can only bring it out of FTL. And the FTL drives need to run for at least 4 hours or there is a risk of permanent damage.


Here's the key thing. The crew trusts Destiny more than they trust Rush.

They trust Destiny because Destiny has always been right. Whenerver Destiny by itself stops at a planet, that planet ends up having the resources the crew needs. Surpirse suprise, this one didn't.

I'll agree to the fact that the crew trusts Destiny. But your claim of the planet not having what they needed is false. They went because it had what they needed. The planet had quite a bit of vegetation, which means possibilities for edible plants and water. We also don't know how long the ship stopped for when Rush brought it out of FTL so they could rescue Scott and the others, so they could have easily had people go off from the gate and search for fruit and water. There was no complaint about lack of supplies this episode, so perhaps the planet DID have what they needed.


So it's a pretty BIG deal when Rush lies and tells them that Destiny stopped at that planet under it's own violition, especially because he said he "told" it they needed food and water.

I'll agree that this is a valid complaint; Rush lying to the crew isn't a good thing. I can understand his pragmatic reasons based on him wanting to keep the bridge a secret, but as I've said several times before, I think it's ultimately a bad idea. Secrets get discovered eventually, especially on that ship. People won't be happy once they find out.


That's the unnecessary risk I'm talking about. General Hammond made damn sure his teams didn't go on misions without full and proper intel. Rush was worried about food and water? That doesn't matter. If he was truly worried about the well-being of the crew and thier survival he would have let them in on the situation. Again, it's Destiny that the crew trusts. If the crew knew that it wasn't Destiny's AI that stopped there, then they could have voiced their worries or disagreements, or planned the mission out better, given this info.

Rush didn't give them that opportunity.

Yes. He. Did.

The core room people were welcome to scan the planet, but apparently their scans told them the same things Rush would have known: that the planet was a bit rough, but doable. There was risk, but ultimately Young made the call because he felt the risk was worth it considering their supply level. Also, unlike Hammond, they don't have the luxury of not going, because they need to eat, so it's not quite comparable


Plus, where does the LA knowing about anything factor into this? They were all held captive in the brig at that point, not in the control rooom or anywhere else on the ship (and they all ended up dumped from the ship, with a few only staying there due to direct orders from Homeworld Command). There was plenty of opportunity to tell the crew.

Wray can't keep her mouth shut and Rush knows that. If the LA knew there was a bridge that controlled everything, it would make a tempting target if they ever managed to get out. Young already let them take over the ship once, showing poor judgment several times. Also, say another wave of LA came through the gate and attacked, freeing their brethren; now they know there is a bridge as well. As I said, pragmatic reasons for wanting to keep it secret, even if I ultimately feel it's a bad move.

Also, Rush is suffering from lack of sleep, he's been kidnapped by aliens, operated on, and tortured. He's no exactly in the best frame of mind. Even if you do find him guilty of things, there should be some "mental duress" mitigating factors there.


And the 9/11 analogy is terrible. Bush didn't target the highjackers towards the WTC or the Pentagon (and without informing anyone else that he did), nor did he withold key information involving the operation.

Not the reason I made the comparison. There are people who do believe Bush's cronies were behind 9/11, or that the atmosphere he created in government, made the attacks possible (to a degree, this is true; the lack of data sharing between agencies majorly contributed to them not catching this). Hell, he was briefed on Al Quada and the fact that a major attack was imminent shortly after entering office. I hate Bush, but even I can see he wasn't really at fault for not stopping 9/11, even though the case could be made.

It's called being truthful about the good and the bad that a person is ultimately responsible for, along with recognizing mitigating factors.

Edit to add:

A lot of people are talking about Rush decision to not tell is crewmate about having found the bridge. But one of the most shocking decision of Rush is not telling them that the gate ship had enough power to gate back to earth. He even has a conversation with his wife hallucination about it.

See people, THIS is an example of a valid criticism. And I WILL bash Rush for not bringing this up to the crew.

It's called being objective, which is what I've been throughout this thread.

harakiri
October 13th, 2010, 06:27 PM
I have to say, I liked this episode,and I think it gave us more to come than what it gave alone. (if anyone see what I mean by that.)
And then I also have to give "Petra" all my support for that excellent post addressed Kaiphantom. I can however see some of Kaiphantom`s points,but I wont put blame on either Rush nor Young.
Young and Rush have both made their share of bad choices,but its easy for us to say when watching it all on TV. We see both what Rush do and what Young do,so its so easy for us to make up our minds of what they should have done in each situation they get in. In the last episodes Telford might have done a better job than Young,but how Telford would be if he : Was framed for a murder he did`nt do,get the message from Rush :That it will never be over (or what he said on the planet where he got stranded),Having to "kill" Tellford to bring him out from the brainwash,handle a mutiny,loosing a child,get a last wish from one of his crew to kill him instead of letting him stay alive on the planet,even maybe alone ..? (I probably miss a lot),but I am not sure Telford would have been feeling all good and leading military as good as he could before in his life.

I feel it is so much to talk about that is more interesting than arguing who is to blame and for what. Who is the good and who is the bad. A good example is these new aliens which we dont know if are "good" or "bad" ,we do however know that if The Destiny`s crew "steal" power from them they take it back. This is fair,its in many ways their ship. Then again: Did Young/Rush/crew know there was any lifeforms on that ship? If I remember right they did start "tapping" power before they found out there was aliens there.

Arguing about who is to blame is getting a bit old now. It`s better to just admit that we always knows best because we`re not there,and we see it as a story and has more reviled than each person on the ship. As I see it both Young and Rush does mistakes that puts the rest in danger,but I dont think Rush could sacrifice himself for others,while I think Young could. But this is however just what I believe and I dont expect others to agree with me,but I dont understand why I have to have a definitely and all decided answer for who is to blame and what is right and wrong.

When it comes to what Rush is to blame for, lately: Keeping the bridge a secret,but I would never myself know who to completely trust with this information. I would never tell Wray or others that I could think would tell her. He is not to blame for the life of Riley (if thats how it is spelled) . it was an accident with the shuttle and it could have happened the next time they used it anyway. Remember the engines just stopped working. They need food,and someone can die when trying to save everyone. Nobody is to blame for having to leave Telford behind,but again here is up for different opinions such as : Could and/or should Rush have disconnected from the seeder ship,and so on. In the end Telford himself decided to stay even though it was risky,he knew it was and Young asked him to get back,but Telford is a grown up man and in the end he decides for himself. I like what Telford did,but if it was worth it I am unsure of. I have to believe Destiny and the people needed him more with them and not left behind. I cant know wetter or not the Destiny could get into FTL without him staying there longer risking getting caught by the aliens.

This said,about the episode: I like that we got to see some other lifeforms again,I think SGU need more of that. I knew (cant know for sure,but believed very much) that we would catch up with the seeder ships,and it was cool. I thought they might get a shuttle from it,but it might still be unknown shuttles somewhere on Destiny. (Its a big ship,and have they explored it all?)

I dont care much for the music they put in so often,but I liked some of them from season 1. Like one with Chloe dreaming about those blue aliens,and I did`nt dislike the song in Air part 3 either. Not sure it is because I did like those songs better,or that then it was not over used,but getting a bit tired of it. However I think it is because it takes time from giving me more of SGU without it. A song often takes over 3 minutes,and I would like them to be more of SGU not like a music video in the end of my favourite series.

As a end I`d point out that I used "I" in front of what I like and I like less,its not how I think everyone else should mean. If someone agrees with me in some or everything,that`s nice,but I do not dislike people for thinking different than me. I find many good things on this forum,but a lot of meaningless argues also. Its meaningless for me,but it might be important to others,and that`s good. People have their wishes and in the end the writers have to find the best storyline to go with. Reading here might give them some ideas,but then I really hope they get some from more than just myself (as an example).

My rating of this episode is 7,5 out of 10. I wanted more than I got,but WOW what an episode it was,and that`s probably why I wanted more.

Anyone who knows how the shows doing on the ratings?

Replicator Todd
October 13th, 2010, 06:39 PM
I was a little disappointed with the seeder ship to be honest, I hope someday we get to see and learn more about them.

morbosfist
October 13th, 2010, 06:41 PM
It had a slight gain this week.

A little bit of trivia I noticed on a repeat viewing: Greer pulled a hamstring while with Park. Niiiiiiicee.

Carter's Boy
October 13th, 2010, 06:43 PM
i agree, i too was left wanting... but the seed ship looks even more like a chevron than destiny does - (supergate out of ships?)

damn drama + commercials = less sci-fi coolness

Elemental
October 13th, 2010, 07:03 PM
Why isnt anyone talking about the moment when Rush basically blew off the most significant reveal in the series (perhaps the franchise) when they finally saw the stargate manufacturing facility? I believe his exact words were: "Well, have we had enough of this little diversion?". Could he have been more apathetic? A real let down.

The_Asgard_live
October 13th, 2010, 07:14 PM
So far new season has been decent. The drama I don't like minimized (though Eli seems a bit whiny) and the stuff I do like a bit more present. Promising start.

Though I had to chuckle as I watched the ships dock with each other. Does everything on this show get to mount something? Except Eli... poor Eli. Okay... I take it back, he is probably justifiably whiny.

Kaiphantom
October 13th, 2010, 07:35 PM
I finally realized the reason why Eli sounds whiny to me; he's an idealist in a cynical universe. Those types can come off as whiny, since they are ignoring reality.

PG15
October 13th, 2010, 08:25 PM
I'd argue what we think is important. We're the viewers. If you tell a bad story, the ratings go down and your show gets canceled. Unless TPTB like JM really don't care if SGU gets renewed or not, then they very well should care what we think.

Ok, what do we think? ;)


This really sounds like an attempt to backpedal. If anyone would have done it, then you can't really blame someone for doing it. And hindsight is 20/20, which is where you are coming from. At the start, we didn't know what would happen. Given all the data beforehand, I can at least admit that I would still send the shuttle, because the need for supplies overrides the possibility of danger.

And this is still a question that people are refusing to answer: In their situation, and with the limited data you had, would you order the shuttle to go for more supplies? I mean, I understand why people are hesitant to answer; because they would, and that would mean they would be in Rush/Young's position and would have to blame themselves, and they don't want to. Life is a risk; get over it.

The next person to whine about Rush (or Young, much as I don't care for him), really needs to answer that question. If they don't, I'll call them out as the hypocrite they are.

I would send the shuttle, and when that whole situation went belly up, I would accept the blame (or partial blame) for what transpired.

Does that answer your question?

Yes, a lot of people would've done it - and whoever ends up doing it shares in the "blame" of what happened. In this case, Rush did it; thus, he shares in that blame.

the fifth man
October 13th, 2010, 08:52 PM
I am really glad to see that the live ratings for this episode were up some from last week. I hope that rise continues.

CCA
October 13th, 2010, 08:53 PM
I finally decided to reappear on the site, and I watched Tuesday's episode today. Honestly it was one of the first, I was rather let down. Just seemed like there was danger but nothing that was liek "boo! "run away, run away" Just thought it could have been better. How, more gore? I like gore...that makes me rather happy.

As for next week....could start to get interesting, but if someone's head starts spinning and green puke comes out, can they shoot and then ask questions later (halo)

PG15
October 13th, 2010, 08:59 PM
It's called being objective, which is what I've been throughout this thread.

How can you possibly know you're being objective when a lot of the arguments in here have been subjective, and some fundamentally so? It's not up to you to decide what's a valid criticism and what's not, since that's subjective; and when you say you're objective because you recognize the valid from the invalid based on your own supposition, then...well, it just doesn't make any sense.

For instance...


Also, Rush is suffering from lack of sleep, he's been kidnapped by aliens, operated on, and tortured. He's no exactly in the best frame of mind. Even if you do find him guilty of things, there should be some "mental duress" mitigating factors there.



So, stressful conditions can give some leeway to bad decisions? Well, Young's had head trauma, the stress of being a leader, a broken marriage, several deaths including that of his own baby, and he's had to kill a member of his own crew because the latter wished it; and now he's drinking because of all that crap; does he get "mental duress mitigating factors" too? Or are his decisions just bad, period?

Look, you make arguments and we make ours; let's not go down the road of thinking that yours is somehow fundamentally superior. That way lies madness.

Kaiphantom
October 13th, 2010, 09:51 PM
Ok, what do we think? ;)

Well, for starters based on another thread here, we mostly think the music montages are being overdone. ;p


How can you possibly know you're being objective when a lot of the arguments in here have been subjective, and some fundamentally so? It's not up to you to decide what's a valid criticism and what's not, since that's subjective; and when you say you're objective because you recognize the valid from the invalid based on your own supposition, then...well, it just doesn't make any sense.

Objective means you see the good and the bad and judge each appropriately. It's kinda what a judge does


So, stressful conditions can give some leeway to bad decisions? Well, Young's had head trauma, the stress of being a leader, a broken marriage, several deaths including that of his own baby, and he's had to kill a member of his own crew because the latter wished it; and now he's drinking because of all that crap; does he get "mental duress mitigating factors" too? Or are his decisions just bad, period?

Well, considering most of the stuff happens after he makes the bad decisions which allow LA control of the ship and put everyone under their control about to be killed while leaving Scott and Greer out to be fried... heh. And for the record, I don't blame Young as much as I probably sound like. But they wanted to make this guy up to be some kind of O'Neill, and they're failing at that, at least. But I mostly apply the blame to him because he WANTS to be leader. That comes with responsibility. Telford was calling it right.


Look, you make arguments and we make ours; let's not go down the road of thinking that yours is somehow fundamentally superior. That way lies madness.

I didn't say superior; Just more fair. ;p Like I said, I still blame Rush for some things(stranding crew on Destiny, framing Young), but I also recognize he doesn't deserve blame for other things (like Riley's death, and Telford being stranded). Young made the call, and regardless of how it turned out, I feel it was the right one. Simple as that. And yes, Rush dos blame himself; that should tell you he is still human and still feeling the weight of his decisions and the value of human lives. That means he's not sociopathic, as someone here might mistakenly believe. But humans feel blame for some of our actions all the time, even when they aren't really our fault.

"It's my fault; if I had stayed home..."
"No, if you had, the burgler would have shot you, too, instead of our daughter."

PG15
October 13th, 2010, 09:59 PM
Well, for starters based on another thread here, we mostly think the music montages are being overdone. ;p

Oh yeah, all 3 pages of it. :p

That said, maybe we should have a poll after all.


Objective means you see the good and the bad and judge each appropriately. It's kinda what a judge does

And judges aren't completely objective either.

Who decides whether one has judged appropriately?




Well, considering most of the stuff happens after he makes the bad decisions which allow LA control of the ship and put everyone under their control about to be killed while leaving Scott and Greer out to be fried... heh.

Oh yeah, reaaaaalllly objective. :p

There were more than enough stresses for Young up to that point. Furthermore, stress factors aren't the only mitigating ones; there are many emotional factors involved if we're really going to count them (i.e. Young's protectiveness for Telford).

For the record, I've never said Rush was sociopathic. He was clearly feeling the guilt about Riley and Telford (and even his almost-sacrifice-of-everyone in Intervention) at the end of these episodes, and I thought that was great.

SciFiRick
October 13th, 2010, 10:16 PM
A lot of people are talking about Rush decision to not tell is crewmate about having found the bridge. But one of the most shocking decision of Rush is not telling them that the gate ship had enough power to gate back to earth. He even has a conversation with his wife hallucination about it.

I also like the way he was really adamant of being the one taking care of the transfer back on the gate ship until the last minute placing himself in the position to be the last to leave the Destiny for earth...or not.

Great point. It appeared that he was not going to let anyone know and pretty much said that to Gloria. He is counting on the others to figure it out. Rush is seriously rolling the dice. Since Rush ended the incursion the actions by Rush is much worse than any of Young's actions since his return from being left on a planet with the destiny crew.

Infinite-Possibilities
October 13th, 2010, 10:32 PM
Can someone clarify what happened at the end? Rush presumably was the one who separated the ship. But the implication was that aliens were the ones who reversed the power flow not Rush, right? Why did the vision of his wife say "Did you do it to save the crew or your dream?" Didn't he just save all their lives? Or was it because he still won't turn the autopilot off and inform the crew they can go back to save Telford?

morbosfist
October 13th, 2010, 10:40 PM
Can someone clarify what happened at the end? Rush presumably was the one who separated the ship. But the implication was that aliens were the ones who reversed the power flow not Rush, right? Why did the vision of his wife say "Did you do it to save the crew or your dream?" Didn't he just save all their lives? Or was it because he still won't turn the autopilot off and inform the crew they can go back to save Telford?The aliens are the ones that reversed the power flow. Rush severed the docking link to stop them, but the implication by Gloria is that he did it without giving Telford the chance to undo the damage. In essence, he did do it to save the ship, but a secondary motivation was that he did not want to go home.

SciFiRick
October 13th, 2010, 10:56 PM
I wonder if there was such a thing as a "Life Signs Detector" back when Destiny was launched? I wouldn't think that such a device fits in the theme of SGU anyway. But, it was what I immediately thought about when the aliens left their stasis pods. However, I would think that the bridge has some type of capability to detect life signs. Another reason to have a crew on the bridge for monitoring. That would be a another line of defense during away missions.

Of course, we don't know the full extent of the bridge's capabilities. It would be cool to have internal sensors, check parts inventories, view schematics, are their other shuttles? is their an armory?, etc could be the things that could be cool to learn about and I hope this comes to pass for I would personally like to see the cool stuff with the drama. The data that streamed over to Destiny will probably be interpreted quickly from the bridge.

DigiFluid
October 13th, 2010, 11:17 PM
Another terrific episode IMO; man I love this show.

reddevil18
October 14th, 2010, 01:04 AM
Very disappointed with this episode.
Bad pacing is killing this show even for me. There were so many cool elements present, yet it simply didn't come together for me.

mi_guard
October 14th, 2010, 01:16 AM
Very disappointed with this episode.
Bad pacing is killing this show even for me. There were so many cool elements present, yet it simply didn't come together for me.

Maybe your expectations are just too high and at the end you are disappointed. Try to expect less and just let the show surprise you, then you will enjoy it more.;):p:D

reddevil18
October 14th, 2010, 01:37 AM
Maybe your expectations are just too high and at the end you are disappointed. Try to expect less and just let the show surprise you, then you will enjoy it more.;):p:DMaybe. But I would have had to lower my expectations CONSIDERABLY in order to find this episode anything but "meh".

mi_guard
October 14th, 2010, 01:39 AM
Maybe. But I would have had to lower my expectations CONSIDERABLY in order to find this episode anything but "meh".

Let's hope then it will improve with Pathogen.

MattSilver 3k
October 14th, 2010, 02:02 AM
Don't worry Red, even if you hate this and Pathogen, I can safely say that I'll like 'em, and thus, the world will be balanced.

blade7gr
October 14th, 2010, 05:18 AM
meh i dont get it first of all
destiny begins the trip from earth (bu the time that atlanis was there then) they fit in that ship infernior technology and inferior scheme why is that? crazy ancients?..

then its the seeder ship a ship capable of building stargate and its so ****** small compared with what it can do..(btw why they didnt think to use the stargates to amplify the power as we saw it in sg1?...................so much and ancient understanding..)
adn if they keep killing ppl with that rate byt the end of season 3(lets hope for that) there will be no one on destiny

garhkal
October 14th, 2010, 06:58 AM
Rush could have blown the sucker (main weapon was right near it I thought it would interfere with docking) that would have stopped the power transfer and not made Destiny go straight back into FTL.


At that range, the dockig area would also have taken damage, and who's to say the explosion would have not set off a chain reaction through the power conduits.??


No
Rush could have easily let Telford to continue his work and reverse the energy drain instead of separating Destiny from seeder. Or use the bridge to see if it was going to work instead of automatically separating the two. Finally if Rush had been truthful about discovering the bridge and how to control Destiny they could of separated long before Telford's life was in peril

Young was the one ordering the separation. But i give you the point on he could have helped from the bridge to reverse it.


Young himself wanted to disconnect the ship, so Rush was technically doing what Young wanted anyway.

Thanks for the back up on that.


I mean even Varro, his actor was a guy that killed Natan in SG1 ... yet now he is someone totally different

He has been several.. Including a runner in SGA.


First thought that popped into my head was the brown aliens were a race created by the ancients to care for the ship when the ship experiences problems. Sort of like the race created to work on the Citadel in Mass Effect.

I am starting to lean in that direction myself with the fact they seemed to understand ancient and operate the consoles.


Aren't stargates made out of naquadah, a mineral contained in an ore which is mined? I'm just hoping TPTB aren't going to leave the fans to try figuring it out. After all, TPTB invented this stargate seeding ship so they ought to have some idea of how it works.

Who is to say that naquida is not something mined from the stars in the first place?


Part of it is that Rush didn't see everything, and only learned about some of the other conditions when Franklin and Gloria told him, AFTER the shuttle left. People in the Core room should have been able to scan the planet just as well, so why didn't Eli, Park, Brody, or Volker say anything? If we're gonna blame Rush, we'll have to blame them, too. Or maybe they aren't that smart after all, and Rush has a point? Who knows.

That's a good point. The control room they always seem to use should have had the same info that rush was able to access. UNLESS that type of info was compartmentalized for a reason..


This doesn't excuse Rush overlooking the bridge's readings of the planet's dangerous biosphere (until his "visions" had to alert him to it)

Who says he overlooked it?? He could have flat out missed it.


I also like the way he was really adamant of being the one taking care of the transfer back on the gate ship until the last minute placing himself in the position to be the last to leave the Destiny for earth...or not.

I think that is cause he knew if he didn't the plan
A) would have not worked or
B) would have worked, but he could not stay.


This is fair,its in many ways their ship. Then again: Did Young/Rush/crew know there was any lifeforms on that ship? If I remember right they did start "tapping" power before they found out there was aliens there.

I actually wondered why they did not try to 'scan' for lifesigns.. BUT i will admit i do not know if those 'pods' would have blocked the readings.


Why isnt anyone talking about the moment when Rush basically blew off the most significant reveal in the series (perhaps the franchise) when they finally saw the stargate manufacturing facility? I believe his exact words were: "Well, have we had enough of this little diversion?". Could he have been more apathetic? A real let down.

Maybe he was apathetic case he already saw it from the bridge.. Or he had 'info on it' placed in his head when he sat in the chair.


So, stressful conditions can give some leeway to bad decisions? Well, Young's had head trauma, the stress of being a leader, a broken marriage, several deaths including that of his own baby, and he's had to kill a member of his own crew because the latter wished it; and now he's drinking because of all that crap; does he get "mental duress mitigating factors" too? Or are his decisions just bad, period?

Yes he does. BUT some of the above was also caused CAUSE he let his emotions get the better of him. HIS kid would not be dead if he had listened to the reasons to space the LA once they got there (or had it done ahead of time).


Can someone clarify what happened at the end? Rush presumably was the one who separated the ship. But the implication was that aliens were the ones who reversed the power flow not Rush, right? Why did the vision of his wife say "Did you do it to save the crew or your dream?" Didn't he just save all their lives? Or was it because he still won't turn the autopilot off and inform the crew they can go back to save Telford?

I think that was i relation to the disconnection.


I wonder if there was such a thing as a "Life Signs Detector" back when Destiny was launched? I wouldn't think that such a device fits in the theme of SGU anyway. But, it was what I immediately thought about when the aliens left their stasis pods.

I am actually not sure if we have even seen signs of internals sensors.

ciannwn
October 14th, 2010, 07:38 AM
Who is to say that naquida is not something mined from the stars in the first place?

Whatever the answer might be it's still up to TPTB to supply it. :p

metabog
October 14th, 2010, 07:43 AM
So do you guys think the LA will hit earth?

It's hard to be concerned about that when you consider that Earth (one planet) has already defeated not one but two races of "gods" and one race of invincible, highly advanced artificial beings. What damage could a bunch of spies and thugs hope to do to a planet that should, for all intents and purposes, be the capital of the Universe?

Kaiphantom
October 14th, 2010, 08:26 AM
Oh yeah, all 3 pages of it. :p

That said, maybe we should have a poll after all.

Yeah, but so far, the vast majority of the people in that thread seem to think montages are overused, heh. But in my original thread, a poll is all I really wanted. Surprisingly, though, I got a lot of resistance from people who didn't even want to give it a chance.


And judges aren't completely objective either.

Who decides whether one has judged appropriately?

There are usually a higher courts, which is just a fancy way of getting multiple judges to review the ruling, in the hopes that a general consensus emerges as to whether the judgment was fair or not. A proper judgment takes everything into account, so at the very least, if someone is ignoring factors, then that someone isn't making a proper judgment.


There were more than enough stresses for Young up to that point. Furthermore, stress factors aren't the only mitigating ones; there are many emotional factors involved if we're really going to count them (i.e. Young's protectiveness for Telford).

Perhaps, but as had been said before, Young is supposedly a trained military officer. And not just a standard one, but one apparently fit for the rigors of the Stargate program. He's supposedly been trained to handle the stresses and still make rational decisions, unswayed by emotion. Remember, "Jack O'Neill of ten years ago" was their words, not mine. In that light, I personally feel he hasn't been a Jack.

And no, you haven't felt that Rush is sociopathic, which makes you more level-headed and objective than some around here. :P Part of why I respect you, even when we disagree on things. It's always nice to talk to rational, logical people, despite disagreements. =)

myhelix
October 14th, 2010, 09:24 AM
Episode wasn't as amazing as last week, but I loved the new alien species. I still don't get why that one collapsed, though.

Because he saw an alien :D

Nth Chevron
October 14th, 2010, 10:18 AM
Just a few points;

I wonder if the BA's went aboard the Seed ship to study it and it took them away from their home, maybe they inadvertently drained some of the seed ships power so it didn't have the juice to make a refuel stop, and them draining power was a way for them to return home.

I hope Brody tells Greer about Young's alcoholic state because i think Greer is the only one who can reach him on the level that Young needs.

Also, just a small point, did anyone else notice at the end of Awakening, that Rush was just about to fall asleep in the chair, and from the looks of the background he left the door open in his haste to disconnect the ships?
Might hopefully mean the bridge gets discovered by others as Rush has a tendency to turn his radio off/ignore it when he is there.

His talking to Gloria and the other scientist dude whose name escapes me, are they being used as plot devices for Rush's internal struggles with his actions so we can see the turmoil inside of him, i aren't truly happy with the current theories of them being hallucinations or some holographic projection by the ship itself, we've seen Destiny has a sophisticated computer system but nothing on the technological order of holographics, maybe it will be shown in a later episode, but for now i see it as Rush probing his own consciousness about his actions and why he did them

N.C

The Mighty 6 platoon
October 14th, 2010, 10:18 AM
It's hard to be concerned about that when you consider that Earth (one planet) has already defeated not one but two races of "gods" and one race of invincible, highly advanced artificial beings. What damage could a bunch of spies and thugs hope to do to a planet that should, for all intents and purposes, be the capital of the Universe?

Well I imagine some cloaked cargo ships packed with bombs parked on earth could do some damage.

What matters in warfare is not how big your stick is, it matters what you do with it. Having some of the largest, most advanced, battle hardened and best trained troops in the world didn't help the Soviets in Afghanistan, the US in Vietnam, the French in Spain in the Napoleonic wars and countless other examples throughout history.

Galileo_Galilee
October 14th, 2010, 10:24 AM
Telford's not gone unless the actor was let out of his contract.

Shan Bruce Lee
October 14th, 2010, 10:32 AM
why didn't Rush stop the jump?

Because he doesn't want anyone to know he's in control of the ship.


I hate to say this but do you think Telford was so insistant on staying there cause if he reversed the transfer and that if they made a connection to earth Telford would get his command?

Possibly.

Shan Bruce Lee
October 14th, 2010, 11:04 AM
i Saw a Picture of the Smurf Aliens and the new lil brown ones.... They Seem Similar... Ones Taller an blue but their facial features have similarities...

And they seem to know ancient... They where shown using one of the terminals to reverse the Power flow... They couldn't exactly just guess what to do to be able to lock down the ship.

Well I got the feeling they'd been tehre fo a long time.


Pretty good episode. It was nice to see some follow-up to the dangling threads like Chloe's condition, TJ's emotions about her lost baby, and the LA, though those scenes felt a bit jarring the way they were interspersed with the scenes from the seeder ship. The new aliens were rather cute, I hope we get to see them again, especially since they appeared to be explorers/researchers.

Re Rush's actions, I noticed that he overheard Telford saying that he would take over if Young didn't start shaping up. I'm thinking that while Rush doesn't think Young is fit for command, he'd probably prefer to him to Telford since he's used to getting around Young when he wants to.

I am looking forward to the showdown when everyone finds out that Rush has found the bridge, because I hope Young or someone finally decides to follow him when he leaves instead of just constantly wondering where he went off to.

I caught that. I was half expecting Rush to pull Young off to the side and some point and say something.


I don't know why you all think Rush is so callous. In intervetion he was sorry that he was going to have to sacrifice parts of the crew.

In Aftermath he was hurt by the fact that he caused them to crash and ultimately riley to die. You can see in his face he was frustrated when he realized the shuttle would't make it. And was worried when they were out of contact.

In Awakening at the end he was clearly upset. Even if he was doing it for selfish reasons he was hurt by the decision he felt he had to make. And the last scene he is sitting in the chair, and what I get from it is that he is thinking "What am I doing!"

I don't know. Just being sorry isn't a very strong case. Especially when you keep doing the same things.


But you see you defeat your own argument. You say there was no risk to dialling the gate, but also point out there was an alien presence.

It was a huge risk to dial the gate in such a siuation.

The aliens were on the seeder ship, the gate was on Destiny. And besides, SG teams have dialed Earth or Atlantis while taking fire hundreds of times going as far back as Children Of The Gods.

Hetshepsu
October 14th, 2010, 11:34 AM
really enjoyed this episode, SGU is getting better with season 2!!

Shan Bruce Lee
October 14th, 2010, 11:47 AM
all i have to say is that it sucks that we lost telford :(

2 down 3 more of my favorite characters left to be killed :( if this isn't the last season at least i'm being given less reasons to watch

Maybe they're trying to drive you away... I just hope TJ isn't one of your favorite characters. I don't want her to die. Or Scott and Greer for that matter.


Again sorry to disagree.

I think there was a risk in dialling the gate. They were attempting to dial earth, needing huge power reserves, which they were taking from a ship they knew nothing about, which had aliens on they knew nothing about. Who knows what could go wrong!

They knew enough to know the ship could sufficiently power the gate to dial back to Earth.


The Asgard race is way less than hundred thousand years old, they only had space tech for 30,000 years.
The destiny project was launch by the ancients millions of years ago. Way before the Asgard have even evolve language let alone technology or interacted with the ancients. There no way the new aliens could be related to the asgard.

When was that stated?


No
Rush could have easily let Telford to continue his work and reverse the energy drain instead of separating Destiny from seeder. Or use the bridge to see if it was going to work instead of automatically separating the two. Finally if Rush had been truthful about discovering the bridge and how to control Destiny they could of separated long before Telford's life was in peril

I think Rush's motive was to get the ship back into FTL when everybody thought it was supposed to happen so they wouldn't know he has control. Not that I'm defending him or anything.


I've watched every episode of stargate sg1/sga and now sgu and wanted to know when did we start calling sgc homeworld command? Maybe i missed it?

The SGC and Homeworld Command are two separate places, both part of the Stargate program.

Mortock42
October 14th, 2010, 12:43 PM
I don't know about you all, but it seemed a bit fishy that Rush was willing to stay on the seeder ship to "monitor" the power transfer so that everyone could gate home. In the previous episode, he even mentioned that the ship was designed to be ran by a crew; not one person. Rush needs everyone there so Destiny can have it's crew, allowing Rush to discover Destiny's purpose.
I think Rush reversed the power transfer knowing that he could blame it on the aliens, hoping to run back to Destiny and undock it from the seeder ship from the bridge. Maybe the Browns stunned him because they realised what he was doing and then tried (and failed) to reverse the power flow from the console. They then dispersed among the ship to try and physically stop the transfer. Considering how much power the seeder ship had, the Browns would have had no reason to take more from Destiny...

mi_guard
October 14th, 2010, 12:55 PM
I don't know about you all, but it seemed a bit fishy that Rush was willing to stay on the seeder ship to "monitor" the power transfer so that everyone could gate home. In the previous episode, he even mentioned that the ship was designed to be ran by a crew; not one person. Rush needs everyone there so Destiny can have it's crew, allowing Rush to discover Destiny's purpose.
I think Rush reversed the power transfer knowing that he could blame it on the aliens, hoping to run back to Destiny and undock it from the seeder ship from the bridge. Maybe the Browns stunned him because they realised what he was doing and then tried (and failed) to reverse the power flow from the console. They then dispersed among the ship to try and physically stop the transfer. Considering how much power the seeder ship had, the Browns would have had no reason to take more from Destiny....

Probably they did not want to have Destiny's power, but just get back the power Destiny had already taken from them. They did not want to be stuck on a ship without any power left. They inversed the power transfer and then disappeared in order not to be found so they were not present to stop the transfer and subsequently the seeder ship continued the process and finally it was taking more power than it had lost.

Kaiphantom
October 14th, 2010, 01:03 PM
A couple of important things to note: Rush still can't control how long the ship remains in normal space. He can bring the ship out of FTL or alter it's course, but that's it. When the ship wants to jump into FTL, it will. Franklin was the only one who was able to command the ship to jump.


I don't know about you all, but it seemed a bit fishy that Rush was willing to stay on the seeder ship to "monitor" the power transfer so that everyone could gate home. In the previous episode, he even mentioned that the ship was designed to be ran by a crew; not one person. Rush needs everyone there so Destiny can have it's crew, allowing Rush to discover Destiny's purpose.

I think Rush reversed the power transfer knowing that he could blame it on the aliens, hoping to run back to Destiny and undock it from the seeder ship from the bridge. Maybe the Browns stunned him because they realised what he was doing and then tried (and failed) to reverse the power flow from the console. They then dispersed among the ship to try and physically stop the transfer. Considering how much power the seeder ship had, the Browns would have had no reason to take more from Destiny...

It's possible, of course, and we'll probably never know for sure. But the fact was, the transfer was working and they were very close to dialing Earth. Rush might have stayed on the Seeder Ship or destiny, perhaps trying to find a way to work with the aliens. Just another option.

morbosfist
October 14th, 2010, 01:18 PM
The power transfer only happened after Rush was stunned by the aliens. He may have done something to interrupt it, but I doubt it.

blueray
October 14th, 2010, 01:23 PM
I've watched every episode of stargate sg1/sga and now sgu and wanted to know when did we start calling sgc homeworld command? Maybe i missed it?

in season 9, o'neill was appointed head of homeworld command, and it was co-existing with the sgc. why they don't mention the sgc in sgu,i don't know. it was still around during sga so it existed after they defeated the ori. i hope we see it in sgu.

Blackhole
October 14th, 2010, 01:37 PM
A couple of important things to note: Rush still can't control how long the ship remains in normal space. He can bring the ship out of FTL or alter it's course, but that's it. When the ship wants to jump into FTL, it will. Franklin was the only one who was able to command the ship to jump.

Are you certain about these facts?

aretood2
October 14th, 2010, 01:40 PM
I have to say that this episode got me back into the SGU mood. No smutt, plenty of adventure, they explored a ship! Plenty of plot movement, we got to see just how "crazy" Rush is, got to meet a new alien, dealt with the Lucian alliance and the dash of false hope...not to mention seeing Telford not act like a jerk, I guess the pre brainwashed telford was a pretty nice guy. I want him incharge of the Destiny, but sadly that is not so :(

Sp!der
October 14th, 2010, 01:47 PM
I loved this Episode, and with this Episode Telford overthroned Rush and Young as one of my favourite characters... I really started to like him, we are gonna see him again right? because some scenes in the trailer shows telford that were not shown in the show yet. The Aliens are cool and the obligatory we are giving them food stuff was nicley done... although repititive especially in stargate ;). A Question asside, do you know if there is gonna be any kinosodes this season? i kinda miss them maybe?

Lahela
October 14th, 2010, 01:49 PM
Are you certain about these facts?

Aftermath quote:


GLORIA
Let's see. What are you trying to do?

RUSH
Figure out how to control how long Destiny stops when it drops out of FTL.