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GateWorld
September 19th, 2010, 12:47 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/s2/202.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/graphics/202.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">UNIVERSE SEASON TWO</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/s2/202.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">AFTERMATH</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 202</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
Dr. Rush directs a shuttle to a planet inaccessible by Stargate -- but a crash landing threatens to strand those on board. Meanwhile, Rush makes a stunning discovery on <I>Destiny</I>, and Young must decide what to do with his prisoners.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/s2/202.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

themeatcleaver
October 5th, 2010, 07:56 PM
That episode was absolutely heartbreaking.


poor riley!

Pharaoh Atem
October 5th, 2010, 08:00 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tim5nU3DwIE


you took riley from us :(

awesome ep but taking riley away will not be forgiven :weiranime34:

General Jumper One
October 5th, 2010, 08:01 PM
loved this ep more than Intervention, and I liked Intervention

joeynox
October 5th, 2010, 08:02 PM
Riley was my favorite character and it kills me that he's dead.just like when Beckett died oh man in 1 season I've grown so attached to the characters. I love this show. Rip Riley

jelgate
October 5th, 2010, 08:03 PM
This episode was back to getthing on what SGU does best. That is the character interaction. I'm back to not trusting Rush one bit. I thought Human humbled him but he is still the little sneak of the grass he has always been. If this was Earth he would probably be guilty of negligent homocide. Never mind the ability of having control of Desting could have on the well-being of those on the ship. My hate for him has refueled. Although I do find his claim of Young being mentally unstable a little hypocritical.

As for the rest of the episode of dealing with Riley dying that was a touching and heart felt moment. It was played real nice to show how much these people care about Riley and how sad they are about him dying. I especially like the TJ/Riley scene where they talk about faith and belief. Finally about Riley it will probably be brought up later so I will come out and say yes I approve of Young giving him a mercy death. Riley was going to die no matter what so you might let his suffering end.

But I won't agree with is Youing bashing the Lucian Alliance to pieces. I kind of like seeing Telford going over Young's head. It shows a considerable amount of friction between the two. Not only because we get to keep some Alliance memebers but it would be a cop out to abandon them all.

Finally the Riley monolouge at the end was awesome as well as the cold ending

Mitchell82
October 5th, 2010, 08:03 PM
Excellent episode. RIP Riley.

Replicator Todd
October 5th, 2010, 08:03 PM
I loved the Rush stuff in the episode, can't wait to see the events unfold next episode. Rush continues to grow into a even more fascinating character.

Pharaoh Atem
October 5th, 2010, 08:05 PM
I Rush continues to grow into a even more fascinating character.

yes now he's added talking to himself :P

jelgate
October 5th, 2010, 08:06 PM
yes now he's added talking to himself :P

Kind of makes the claim of Young being mentally unstable humorous

Briangate78
October 5th, 2010, 08:08 PM
Yeah there were a lot of things that felt like SGA to me in this episode. How Young let Riley die reminded me of how Sheppard shot Sumner when he was being fed on by the Wraith. When Rush walks into the ship's bridge, all the lights come one, reminds me of when they enter the city of Atlantis for the first time, or when Daniel and Mckay discover Janus' secret room. It just felt like a classic SG ep to me. The hallucinations reminded me of Grace and Grace Under Pressure. So like I said a lot of things felt like old school SG.

I think Aftermath is a good example of them taking the old and the new and finding a good medium. the special effects of the shuttle crashing were very impressive. So overall a very good episode to me.

joeynox
October 5th, 2010, 08:08 PM
the writing for the franchise took 10 big steps forward with thsi episode. I absolutly loved every aspect of the epsiode except riley dying but hopefully he ends up on the alien planet

now the ship has no shuttles! they better get that "big" gun working 100%

Pharaoh Atem
October 5th, 2010, 08:09 PM
the writing for the franchise took 10 big steps forward with thsi episode. I absolutly loved every aspect of the epsiode except riley dying but hopefully he ends up on the alien planet

of all the dead people end up on the faith planet then we're right back to deaths not having any meanings.

joeynox
October 5th, 2010, 08:10 PM
it worked in sg1 and sga sorta. it could work here

Pharaoh Atem
October 5th, 2010, 08:12 PM
it worked in sg1 and sga sorta. it could work here

i'm still not convinced what tj saw was real. i don't think anyone going to that planet. but it was cool that she brought it up to riley

GateroomGuard
October 5th, 2010, 08:13 PM
of all the dead people end up on the faith planet then we're right back to deaths not having any meanings.

By this shows own rules there are thousands of alternate timelines where Riley is still alive. Death has never had any 'finality' meaning in Stargate. There are so many ways to bring someone back, clones, alternate reality people, alternate timeline people, ascension. It would be suprising if we never encountered Riley again.

Stargater276
October 5th, 2010, 08:13 PM
RIP Riley, he was my favourite character on the show. I just hope the TPTB don't bring him back like they did on the previous SG shows.

Anybody working on the RIP Riley signatures yet?

Pharaoh Atem
October 5th, 2010, 08:15 PM
RIP

Anybody working on the RIP Riley signatures yet?

you wouldn't be able to use them till the ep airs in usa syndication without covering them in spoilers tags for about 2 years.

jelgate
October 5th, 2010, 08:16 PM
Yeah there were a lot of things that felt like SGA to me in this episode. How Young let Riley die reminded me of how Sheppard shot Sumner when he was being fed on by the Wraith. When Rush walks into the ship's bridge, all the lights come one, reminds me of when they enter the city of Atlantis for the first time, or when Daniel and Mckay discover Janus' secret room. It just felt like a classic SG ep to me. The hallucinations reminded me of Grace and Grace Under Pressure. So like I said a lot of things felt like old school SG.

I think Aftermath is a good example of them taking the old and the new and finding a good medium. the special effects of the shuttle crashing were very impressive. So overall a very good episode to me.

:eek:They used the Stargate to free a damanged ship. Its Tagnet:P

TheHomegaMan
October 5th, 2010, 08:16 PM
I'll admit it, I was expecting this ep to be the usual false danger and character shield tripe that SGA got us into. Truly a great end for Riley, and I absolutely LOVED how they used his "It's not being here, it's not being there" monologue from his Kinosode as a send off. Truly amazing.

Good to see Gloria and Franklin again, and even better that Rush questions his sanity. I'll admit, I really hope that Rush seeing the two of them is linked to his chair experience, if they're not going to let Rush slowly lose his mind.

And... in (almost) before anyone says Franklin ascended. Anyone who wants to claim he did better back it up.

SG1Commander
October 5th, 2010, 08:20 PM
That episode was absolutely heartbreaking.


poor riley!

This episode was both incredible, and heartbreaking at the same time. The fact that Rush found Destiny's bridge was great, as well as the character interaction. All that though was overshadowed by the loss of Riley. RIP Hunter Riley

morbosfist
October 5th, 2010, 08:22 PM
Man, that was sad. I didn't want to accept it at first. You thought there'd be an out. But it just goes further and further in, your hopes dying ever so slowly with it. That was powerful stuff. But I could go on all day about that, and I don't want to.

Young's obviously not coping well. I could excuse hitting the bottle once, and I'll let him slide this second time for what he had to do (don't think I could in the same situation), but third time isn't going to be a charm.

At least we kept some of the Alliance officers. Koz better be among them. I only noticed the main three. He seems like a good guy.

Finally, set up for the next episode. Mysterious object coming, and Rush has an idea of what it is obviously.

TheHomegaMan
October 5th, 2010, 08:30 PM
So... anyone else wondering when Rush found the bridge? He knew exactly where to go once he realized he'd cracked the master code, then input it from there.

Somebody's been doing some exploring...

themeatcleaver
October 5th, 2010, 08:30 PM
Anyone else notice what the writers did to us? With them giving TJ hope of her daughter being on the Faith planet.. they've given us that little glimmer of hope that Riley is there as well!

Overall, fantastic episode. Rush better get a headbutt from Young though when Young finds out that he's at fault for that whole thing. They still dont have any more food or water do they? The whole mission was for naught?

jelgate
October 5th, 2010, 08:31 PM
Anyone else notice what the writers did to us? With them giving TJ hope of her daughter being on the Faith planet.. they've given us that little glimmer of hope that Riley is there as well!

Overall, fantastic episode. Rush better get a headbutt from Young though when Young finds out that he's at fault for that whole thing. They still dont have any more food or water do they? The whole mission was for naught?I don't think so. Riley is defiantly dead. Its pretty obviou

Pharaoh Atem
October 5th, 2010, 08:32 PM
the faith planet isn't sgu heaven.... i hope.

themeatcleaver
October 5th, 2010, 08:33 PM
I don't think so. Riley is defiantly dead. Its pretty obviou

So is baby Carmen but that didn't stop the writers... lol

We're out of shuttles now too right? Time to gate in a puddle jumper from Atlantis yet or.. they just gonna steal fresh shuttles from the "object" that looks like Destiny they hint about in the teaser?

Pharaoh Atem
October 5th, 2010, 08:34 PM
So is baby Carmen but that didn't stop the writers... lol

that's up for debate.

jelgate
October 5th, 2010, 08:35 PM
Thats different they spent effort showing TJ about her baby and they said the reason was because the baby didn't have a choice. But I don't think we can say every SGU death means they are off to the Faith planet.

TheHomegaMan
October 5th, 2010, 08:36 PM
Easier to let an adult die than a child. I still think that whole Carmen bit pretty much smacked of cowardice on the part of the writers.

themeatcleaver
October 5th, 2010, 08:36 PM
that's up for debate.

My point EXACTLY! We have no idea either way and thats half the fun! :)

/i do have to say that i got kind of nostalgic at the sight of a buried stargate

Commander Zelix
October 5th, 2010, 08:36 PM
That episode was a complete borefest to me. Even compared to other TV shows actually on TV. I was looking at my watch hoping for the show to end so I wouldn't miss part of the overall story as rapidly as possible. This is the type of episode that I can safely say that I will probably never watch again.

Beside the fact that there was almost no plot or peripety. It's like a boring version of Water and Darkness put together. People facing death check. Someone stuck in a hole, check.

Otherwise, there was nothing very wrong with the episode. They fly down the planet, somebody is stuck, die and they get back to the Destiny. I hope they found some fruits.

Empty planets ain't my cup of tea.

I give it a 3/10.

Pharaoh Atem
October 5th, 2010, 08:38 PM
/i do have to say that i got kind of nostalgic at the sight of a buried stargate

and how lucky it was standing up.

jelgate
October 5th, 2010, 08:39 PM
and how lucky it was standing up.

It wasn't standing up

morbosfist
October 5th, 2010, 08:39 PM
Good thing it's built in that sturdy platform.


It wasn't standing upIt was standing up. It's built inside the platform. They couldn't possibly have stood it up by themselves.

Pharaoh Atem
October 5th, 2010, 08:39 PM
T

young's starting to crack.

rush broke the code.

riley died.

TJ and young had a moment.

plenty happen in this ep

Pharaoh Atem
October 5th, 2010, 08:40 PM
It wasn't standing up

there's no way they could lift. it (granted i was watching something else on off. i might have missed something.

it's in my dvr

Tielster
October 5th, 2010, 08:41 PM
I really love this show. But I have issue with a couple of storyline rushes(pardon the pun) in 'Aftermath'.
1. Um... Talford looked like he was gonna be a mole and then he wasn't. Could have been awesome.
2. Really boring recovery from the shuttle crash on the planet. It's as though the writers had the shuttle make a run just to write in a cool way to kill Riley. pff...
3. I'm totally cool with Rush and Young going insane but not sure how I feel about both at the same time.
4. Speaking of Rush and Young... what happened to the almost humanizing of Rush and the close encounter of composer for Young? Soooo close. And my issue with that is I personally love how close the SG teams become. They would die for eachother. No other show pulled that off the way the Stargate shows have. It was they're secret ingredient.
5. The dead or missing people popping up is wreaking a bit like 'Lost'. Love 'Lost' but that was 'Lost'. This is Stargate.

As an aside... I ponder the possibility of the lack of camaraderie being one of the reasons we lost Robert C. Hmmmm...

In short, I feel like I was just left dancing with myself with this epi. As in, not terrible but srsly not nearly as fun as it could have been.

themeatcleaver
October 5th, 2010, 08:41 PM
oh i've been meaning to ask, what do we think so far? was franklin in Rush's head or was that actually Franklin and Rush couldn't tell the difference? Rush did say that Franklin was much more helpful in technical matters.

jelgate
October 5th, 2010, 08:41 PM
there's no way they could lift. it (granted i was watching something else on off. i might have missed something.

it's in my dvr
Greer was stand on top in the beginning. It wasn't standing up at first

morbosfist
October 5th, 2010, 08:42 PM
Count it as a production error if it really was flat, but they couldn't have stood it up on their own.

Gallienus
October 5th, 2010, 08:43 PM
Well this was one of the more impressive episodes in SGU's run so far, at least in my opinion. I'm of course sorry to see Riley go, but I thought his demise was handled well. If there's any criticism I could level it would be that the episode did telegraph the problems encountered well ahead of time.

For instance, when Rush was talking with his, uh, vision? I just had a feeling that somehow Franklin was involved, and then there is was. Later on when the Stargate was found to be "inoperative" I pretty well knew it was buried. Of course, seeing the gigantic pile of rubble leading up to that revelation was none-to-subtle either. The way Young handled Riley's situation I oddly didn't find to be cold or indicative of mental issues. He was doing the man a favor and respecting his final wises. If anything it made me feel a tad bit better about the Colonel.

Still, I'd rate this episode in the top 5 so far, at least in terms of those I liked. The character interaction didn't seem pointless or tacked on and Rush making a bee-line for the bridge (apparently atop the "pyramid" thing) certainly makes one wonder just how much he really does know. Well anyway I'm looking forward to next week's show already. Unlike some of you who know all the spoilers ahead of time I don't really read ahead so the new ship thing looks compelling, although obviously it wont get them home. Despite Syfy's preview implying that it might. Sigh, Syfy, why can't you just leave well enough alone.

Tielster
October 5th, 2010, 08:46 PM
Greer was stand on top in the beginning. It wasn't standing up at first

Yeah it was. He was standing on the top of it.

Kaiphantom
October 5th, 2010, 08:50 PM
Fairly decent episode, a step up from the last one. Before I get to discussing other matters, I'm gonna focus on Rush, since he had a large role in this ep.

I know some may think Rush crazy, and it's possible he is; the simple fact of the matter is, we don't know if he's talking to himself, or if somehow there are other forces at play. As he theorized, it could be the ship itself manifesting something, or alien presences (either Faith aliens or Franklin being ascended, etc.). Until we know for sure, it's hard to draw conclusions from his actions. We also know he's obviously suffering from lack of sleep, so I don't judge him too harshly.... yet.

I still dock him points for not telling the crew, but I understand his reasoning. He was quite correct that Young is losing it, and that it was Young's fault the LA took over. By keeping the bridge secret, if the LA take over again (or Young screws up again), Rush can maintain control of the ship from his secret bridge. From that point of view, it makes logical sense. So, in a sense, Young has to grow and overcome his problems, and prove he's a decent leader, and then Rush would trust him more. I don't entirely agree with Rush's actions, but I do understand the logical pathway that led him to make those.

Speaking of Young, I will give him some props for making the hard call with respect for Riley, and doing it himself. From one respect, I had an inkling someone was going to die or something, as SGU has a lot of characters and just gained a bunch more with the LA. That means they have to prune the cast. Still, he will be missed, and while there is always a possibility for him to come back (no one in sci-fi truly dies), it was an interesting way for him to go.

Now, onto the rest:

I do understand the problem of keeping prisoners(or even any additional people), and it could be argued the LA brought this on themselves. But I didn't expect them to toss all the LA people out the gate (well, except for the two or three they kept). And obviously, the LA people aren't telling everything they know about Destiny. They have to know where it's headed or what it was built for in order to risk a death sentence to get there. Those door openers they used last season had to come from somewhere Destiny-related in order to work on the doors. I'm very surprised no one said anything, especially when threatened with being stranded on the planet. This definitely better be something that comes up (the LA revealing the exact reason why), or I'm gonna consider it a wallbanger.

Hmm... what else... Not a whole lot else to say, except it is very clear that SGU isn't SG-1 nor SGA. SGU exists in it's own universe, no pun intended. What I mean is, the feel of it is neither classic SG-1 nor SGA. Considerably darker and more cynical, which means the idea of saving everyone is out. People are going to die, be sacrificed, and someone who tries to save everyone is an idiot. It's a cynical series.

Seems like the seeder ship is up next, and without a shuttle, I wonder how they will get over there to check it out, but I assume they will get access to another shuttle to replace the one they lost. Of course, if what I read is to be believed, Caine and the others will end up back on Destiny, so maybe their shuttle will be returned as well.

jelgate
October 5th, 2010, 08:56 PM
Yeah it was. He was standing on the top of it.

So it would have to be move in some direction for them just to walk through to Destiny if he is on top of it;)

Uncle Tobias
October 5th, 2010, 08:58 PM
Not sure what surprised me more, that Riley actually died or that they left most of the Lucians there. Good episode though..

themeatcleaver
October 5th, 2010, 08:59 PM
So it would have to be move in some direction for them just to walk through to Destiny if he is on top of it;)

technically they could have just left it flat to get back to destiny depending which side was facing up. the only real reason it would need to be standing is for people from destiny to come to the planet.

/just sayin!

Pharaoh Atem
October 5th, 2010, 09:00 PM
r that they left most of the Lucians there. Good episode though..

waste on resources

Tielster
October 5th, 2010, 09:01 PM
So it would have to be move in some direction for them just to walk through to Destiny if he is on top of it;)

I just meant that it was buried standing upright. They just blew the dirt away with the C4. I could totally be wrong. That's what it looked like. Regardless, the undirting of it was done without any of them breaking a sweat which was pretty lame.

Pharaoh Atem
October 5th, 2010, 09:03 PM
I just meant that it was buried standing upright. They just blew the dirt away with the C4. I could totally be wrong. That's what it looked like. Regardless, the undirting of it was done without any of them breaking a sweat which was pretty lame.

your right on the gate being standing up./ as for undiging it they began to do it themselves and then used c4 to finsh it

themeatcleaver
October 5th, 2010, 09:03 PM
I just meant that it was buried standing upright. They just blew the dirt away with the C4. I could totally be wrong. That's what it looked like. Regardless, the undirting of it was done without any of them breaking a sweat which was pretty lame.

i thought i saw a couple of them exhausted and taking a break behind the gate, Eli and Greer specifically. someone correct me if i'm wrong.

Pharaoh Atem
October 5th, 2010, 09:04 PM
i thought i saw a couple of them exhausted and taking a break behind the gate, Eli and Greer specifically. someone correct me if i'm wrong.

your right. the crew stopped diging when eli was asking about riley

Commander Zelix
October 5th, 2010, 09:05 PM
young's starting to crack.

rush broke the code.

riley died.

TJ and young had a moment.

plenty happen in this ep

Those are not plot. The real plot of the episode is about the crew crashing on some planet, finding the gate then get back on the Destiny. While someone died. (B plot Rush find the bridge but decide not to tell anybody)

But I can understand how someone could like the episode since there was a lot of character interactions. A lot of emotions. Personally, even my drama (mostly movies), I prefer for them to have more solid dialogues. More significance. Sometimes I'm shaken after having watch some particularly gripping drama. I've got none of that here.

Even an episode like Peter on Fringe last year. Yes it was dramatic but at the same time there was this great plot (a bit too long to resume here) involving interaction between 2 parallel universe.

I understand what the SGU writers are trying to do. Simple story (read plots) with a lot of emotions, character conflicts, people facing their death, desperation, drama. I think the writers must be very happy with the result of this episode imo.

Personally, I don't like the idea to begin with since I'm more plot oriented. And I just find the result in this episodes to be dreadfully boring. I'm sure some other people got other opinions. Just give my honest one here.

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
October 5th, 2010, 09:06 PM
I gotta say this episode was awesome except for the whole Riley Dying Part. My jaw was on the floor. I liked Riley. Except he was very accident prone. Seems like Telford dying and then being broken free of the brainwashing as well as being shot and living hasn't humbled the guy.

jelgate
October 5th, 2010, 09:09 PM
technically they could have just left it flat to get back to destiny depending which side was facing up. the only real reason it would need to be standing is for people from destiny to come to the planet.

/just sayin!
It that was the case they wouldn't have walked out of the gate like they did on Destiny

morbosfist
October 5th, 2010, 09:12 PM
The ramp was clearly intact beneath all the rock. The gate had to be upright the entire time.

Pharaoh Atem
October 5th, 2010, 09:13 PM
The ramp was clearly intact beneath all the rock. The gate had to be upright the entire time.

your not going to win. your right but once jels convinced of something you won't win.

themeatcleaver
October 5th, 2010, 09:13 PM
It that was the case they wouldn't have walked out of the gate like they did on Destiny

of course, its not what happened but it was an example of a point. The point being that the stargate would in fact still work laying down and does not necessarily have to be standing up.

*shrugs*

General Jumper One
October 5th, 2010, 09:14 PM
the gate was standing the whole time, if it wasn't then explain how they got it standing

FoX-1028
October 5th, 2010, 09:15 PM
Gonna watch this episode now... wow i fell asleep but i cant go to school without watching it!!

morbosfist
October 5th, 2010, 09:16 PM
your not going to win. your right but once jels convinced of something you won't win.To be fair, he may technically be right. If they screwed up and buried the model flat in the first shot, then it's just a continuity error. Need screenshots.

themeatcleaver
October 5th, 2010, 09:17 PM
the gate was standing the whole time, if it wasn't then explain how they got it standing

it was definitely standing when they went through, if anything it may have been tipped to the side slightly and they just stood it up but personally i think it was just standing vertical and we're all arguing over nothing(as usual). =D

Sairnath
October 5th, 2010, 09:21 PM
To me the whole Lucian Alliance subplot should have been a single episode in its own right. Felt to rushed to and "oh this happened to" for me.

Ashman
October 5th, 2010, 09:22 PM
Three things I loved about this episode
1. Riley comment about the gun & young being blamed! Priceless
2. Rush & the whole finding the bridge
etc
3 the LA resason for comming to the ship being given!

Overall my favorite episode of the series outside of justice!

Detox
October 5th, 2010, 09:24 PM
"Hey! Let's kill off the very likable character we've created!"

Way to be original you guys...

themeatcleaver
October 5th, 2010, 09:25 PM
Three things I loved about this episode
1. Riley comment about the gun & young being blamed! Priceless
2. Rush & the whole finding the bridge
etc
3 the LA resason for comming to the ship being given!

Overall my favorite episode of the series outside of justice!

agreed! great episode!

1) I definitely laughed out loud at that one
2) It was the phattest thing ever seeing the bridge actually rise up out of the top of the pyramid like a bunker(no wonder we could never find it in screenies!)
3) I still think theres more to the LA being there than meets the eye

morbosfist
October 5th, 2010, 09:26 PM
"Hey! Let's kill off the very likable character we've created!"

Way to be original you guys...Oh please. Nothing is original. You could decry every aspect of every show on those grounds.

jelgate
October 5th, 2010, 09:27 PM
the gate was standing the whole time, if it wasn't then explain how they got it standing

I don't know. How about moving it upward:rolleyes:

It makes no sense for people like Greer and Eli to be standing on top of it and then walking through it like the average gate. Their is an orientation error if the gate wasn't moved up ward

GateroomGuard
October 5th, 2010, 09:27 PM
"Hey! Let's kill off the very likable character we've created!"

Way to be original you guys...

Your right... RUN PARK! THEY'LL COME FOR YOU NEXT!

Sapphire_Jade
October 5th, 2010, 09:28 PM
I loved this episode! This is the first episode that kept my attention the whole episode! IMHO Young needs to be taken out of command he went too far with that LA member!! When Rush found the bridge and it rose up like that that was too cool!!! I understand why Rush is hiding the bridge, but that choice resulted in the death of Riley, which made me cry (the first episode this season to make me cry!) I really like Riley. And the whole Gloria and Franklin story line is interesting. I really enjoyed this episode!

General Jumper One
October 5th, 2010, 09:29 PM
I don't know. How about moving it upward:rolleyes:

It makes no sense for people like Greer and Eli to be standing on top of it and then walking through it like the average gate. Their is an orientation error if the gate wasn't moved up ward

Stargates are very heavy, and taken lots of people with ropes and such to get one standing, and I just rewatched this part and the gate was in standing, you can tell because it curves down rather than to the sides

morbosfist
October 5th, 2010, 09:29 PM
I don't know. How about moving it upward:rolleyes:

It makes no sense for people like Greer and Eli to be standing on top of it and then walking through it like the average gate. Their is an orientation error if the gate wasn't moved up wardFor starters, gate weigh something like 25+ tons in-show.

You're not getting what happened. Greer and Eli are standing on top of the gate because it was buried in a rock slide. The top of the gate is the highest point. It didn't tip over, it was just covered. They unburied it, then walked through.

TheHomegaMan
October 5th, 2010, 09:30 PM
Those are not plot. The real plot of the episode is about the crew crashing on some planet, finding the gate then get back on the Destiny. While someone died. (B plot Rush find the bridge but decide not to tell anybody)

But I can understand how someone could like the episode since there was a lot of character interactions. A lot of emotions. Personally, even my drama (mostly movies), I prefer for them to have more solid dialogues. More significance. Sometimes I'm shaken after having watch some particularly gripping drama. I've got none of that here.

Even an episode like Peter on Fringe last year. Yes it was dramatic but at the same time there was this great plot (a bit too long to resume here) involving interaction between 2 parallel universe.

I understand what the SGU writers are trying to do. Simple story (read plots) with a lot of emotions, character conflicts, people facing their death, desperation, drama. I think the writers must be very happy with the result of this episode imo.

Personally, I don't like the idea to begin with since I'm more plot oriented. And I just find the result in this episodes to be dreadfully boring. I'm sure some other people got other opinions. Just give my honest one here.


Not that I should have to point this out, but...

This show is not an anthology of one-off self-contained stories. It is a series.

Detox
October 5th, 2010, 09:31 PM
Oh please. Nothing is original. You could decry every aspect of every show on those grounds.


You're right, but still, it doesn't make that any less stupid and pointless.

You don't have to kill off characters people enjoy to pretend to be "gritty".

It makes it worse that they've killed one of the few comedic characters that are actually on the show. One of the biggest complaints about SGU was its lack of humour, and they've addressed that complaint by cutting off more sources where that humour could come from.

Skygate
October 5th, 2010, 09:32 PM
Your right... RUN PARK! THEY'LL COME FOR YOU NEXT!

Now I realize why TJ is simply a medic and not a full M.D. yet.

She would have been killed off already.

General Jumper One
October 5th, 2010, 09:32 PM
You're right, but still, it doesn't make that any less stupid and pointless.

You don't have to kill off characters people enjoy to pretend to be "gritty".

It makes it worse that they've killed one of the few comedic characters that are actually on the show. One of the biggest complaints about SGU was its lack of humour, and they've addressed that complaint by cutting off more sources where that humour could come from.

tv shows don't have to have humor in them for them to be good

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
October 5th, 2010, 09:33 PM
Stargate weighs 64,000tons.

Sue_Jackson
October 5th, 2010, 09:37 PM
NOOOOOOO!!!! Not Riley!! Why'd he hafta die??? :( :thoranime01:

jelgate
October 5th, 2010, 09:37 PM
NOOOOOOO!!!! Not Riley!! Why'd he hafta die??? :( :thoranime01:

Character shields are less pretective in SGU

Skygate
October 5th, 2010, 09:39 PM
tv shows don't have to have humor in them for them to be good

But it helps to lighten the mood and variate the tone.

Riley was one of the few mood lighteners. :(

Commander Zelix
October 5th, 2010, 09:39 PM
Not that I should have to point this out, but...

This show is not an anthology of one-off self-contained stories. It is a series.
You probably haven't read my post before making that comment since I mention a great episode like Peter on Fringe as being an example of an emotional episode with a great plot too. Its possible to do both, but SGU writers decide not to do so. They prefer flimsy plot with a lot of melodrama on the side. The boring kind imo. "Sniff sniff Riley is going to die" is really basic to me. A cheap barebone way to create emotions. Peter's story has much more depth imo.

GateroomGuard
October 5th, 2010, 09:41 PM
Now I realize why TJ is simply a medic and not a full M.D. yet.

She would have been killed off already.

If Riley can die then no one is safe. Well none of the secondary characters are safe anyway, the main cast is still completely safe as always.

VampyreWraith
October 5th, 2010, 09:46 PM
I was sad to see Riley die but I think it was dealt with well as far as having a character die goes. I really liked the character, and I'll miss him. I thought it was a really good ep overall though. I really liked the Rush and wife scenes. I liked Wray more this episode than I usually do, and Young a bit less.

Carter1994
October 5th, 2010, 09:52 PM
I now despise irony with a passion. Just this evening a friend and I were discussing how another show we watch is so good at producing tear-jerkers, whereas we didn't think even killing off Riley would elicit such emotions.

WE TAKE IT BACK! For heaven's sake, we take it back!! It could've been anyone, anyone else PTB... why? :( I did find it interesting that Young had been apparently holding his breath, i.e., making sure he didn't kill Riley. Young just did it long enough to render him unconscious, thus putting the sergeant out of his pain.

Oh, and any and all character development for Rush? Whoosh! There it goes, out the cracked window of that poor downed shuttle.

TheHomegaMan
October 5th, 2010, 09:56 PM
You probably haven't read my post before making that comment since I mention a great episode like Peter on Fringe as being an example of an emotional episode with a great plot too. Its possible to do both, but SGU writers decide not to do so. They prefer flimsy plot with a lot of melodrama on the side. The boring kind imo. "Sniff sniff Riley is going to die" is really basic to me. A cheap barebone way to create emotions. Peter's story has much more depth imo.

I did read your post, but kudos on the baseless assumption.

This episode was partly emotion, but to wholly discount the plot, as you so clearly did, is ridiculous. Unless you're sitting on the next few episodes, you lack the necessary context. "Peter" worked as a standalone that set things up for the rest of the season. We don't really know yet with "Aftermath". I mean, you pretty blatantly left out the "Rush finds the bridge" part of then plot. If you willfully ignore major plot points, I just can't take you seriously when you say that an episode lacks plot.


You're right, but still, it doesn't make that any less stupid and pointless.

You don't have to kill off characters people enjoy to pretend to be "gritty".

It makes it worse that they've killed one of the few comedic characters that are actually on the show. One of the biggest complaints about SGU was its lack of humour, and they've addressed that complaint by cutting off more sources where that humour could come from.

The fact that you're this pissed off by Riley's death shows that the writers pulled off their goal: you've felt the death of a minor character, and have responded to it. That sounds pretty good to me.

Or are you seriously arguing for character shields for minor characters?

Sairnath
October 5th, 2010, 09:59 PM
Another thought. Aren't they now out of shuttles? Could have sworn they only had two. One was left behind on the Faith Planet and now one crashed and burned.

hedwig
October 5th, 2010, 10:08 PM
Just as a reference regarding the gate in this episode - if you all recall SG1's "Memento" (season 6), where the Tagrean gate was found buried, it took at least a dozen big husky men with ropes and pulleys and a couple of large pieces of equipment to raise the gate from being flat. There's no way our small band of survivors could have raised the gate in this episode with their bare hands and some C4.

Regardless of what Young has done thus far, I feel quite sorry for him. Along with everything else that's happened, he's also lost a child (yes, it was TJ's baby, but we need to remember it was Young's child, too), and as much as he hated doing it, he killed one of his own men with his bare hands. And he has to contend with all the animosity of people pointing fingers at him and saying he failed them. It's no wonder he might be losing it (for now).

And I'm back to having no sympathy for Rush. In my mind, he's directly responsible for Riley's death, because had he simply told the truth from the beginning, that would not have happened; they also wouldn't have lost the only remaining shuttle ... and he's got the nerve to be pointing fingers at Young and saying he's not fit to command anything. Hello - pot calling kettle black?

Selene1212
October 5th, 2010, 10:19 PM
I did find it interesting that Young had been apparently holding his breath, i.e., making sure he didn't kill Riley. Young just did it long enough to render him unconscious, thus putting the sergeant out of his pain.Dude was totally dead and TJ knew Young did it.

Note: Stargate can't function laying down as it needed to be able to spin to dial up Destiny.

Btw, when did the ancients start adding DHD's to the Stargates? I don't think we've seen any at all in SGU yet.

morbosfist
October 5th, 2010, 10:21 PM
The gates in SGU use those remotes. The Ancients built DHDs for the networks in Pegasus and the Milky Way. They're supposed to be easy to use.

themeatcleaver
October 5th, 2010, 10:25 PM
Dude was totally dead and TJ knew Young did it.

Note: Stargate can't function laying down as it needed to be able to spin to dial up Destiny.

Btw, when did the ancients start adding DHD's to the Stargates? I don't think we've seen any at all in SGU yet.

wow dude you totally proved me wrong on the laying down thing! correction... milky way gates can work laying down. Destiny gates CANT because the whole thing spins! Good catch!

/cant believe no one else called me out on that

kymeric
October 5th, 2010, 10:28 PM
Young was pretty sweet choking that dude to death.

Selene1212
October 5th, 2010, 10:32 PM
Young was pretty sweet choking that dude to death.Which one? :D Just kidding... ;)

Stormtrooper
October 5th, 2010, 10:45 PM
Sad to see Riley go in a mehpisode like this. Why not kill Eli or Scott instead? Those would have been bold moves on the writers' part. Now, killing Riley, a fan favorite secondary character? More of the same, and it just annoys the fans. Was this Cooper's gift for the fans before he left the franchise? Thanks, man. Riley could come back to the show anytime, though, with a little help from the Obelisk Builders, as one of Baltar's Rush's visions, etc.

The episode also brought out the worst of Rush and Young. Rush proved one more time that 1) he's not as smart as he think he is; 2) he couldn't care less about the lives of his fellow crew members. Young clearly lost it and is a liability to the ship and everyone around him. Telford should be put in charge of the mission asap.

There seemed to be a gate screw-up in the ep too. Destiny dials the planet and Eli and Scott come through the gate onto Destiny. Two-way wormholes? Lol, that's new in Stargate. I'm also worried about the LA situation. The writers got rid of a bunch of them in this episode. Soon enough, there won't be anyone left and a major cop-out will unfold.

On a side note, let me just say that Robert Knepper is being seriously underused in SGU. The same applies to LDP and Ming-Na. Why hire well-known actors if you don't intend to use them, or don't know what to do with them?

Liked: finally seeing Destiny's bridge, Rush's wife, Franklin, Ginn, that James is still alive.

5/10

Cold Fuzz
October 5th, 2010, 10:46 PM
And I'm back to having no sympathy for Rush. In my mind, he's directly responsible for Riley's death, because had he simply told the truth from the beginning, that would not have happened; they also wouldn't have lost the only remaining shuttle ... and he's got the nerve to be pointing fingers at Young and saying he's not fit to command anything. Hello - pot calling kettle black?

If Gloria is his conscience in some way, then she was absolutely right in saying that his negligence was directly responsible for putting the shuttle crew in that situation in the first place. You're correct that if he decided to be truthful about the access code, things would have been different.

Rush is still rationalizing away his egregious tactics and the body count under the pretext of "the greater good." He wasn't saving lives, though he may sincerely believe he's trying to do that. His actions in Aftermath aren't about the welfare of the crew no matter how much he can rationalize or justify it as such. This is about him being in control and proving that he's right.

He claims that Young is mentally unstable and unfit for command. Well, Young isn't seeing Gloria or Jeremy Franklin in his mind right now. That and there's the oh-so-little bit of dishonesty about the master code. On top of that, he cost them a shuttle and the life of a well-liked and excellent crewman. His hypocrisy is infuriating. Rush is WRONG. Period. He is NOT fit for command.

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
October 5th, 2010, 10:46 PM
Riley was the Walter Harriman of the Destiny. It would be like someone killing off Walter. You can't do it.

morbosfist
October 5th, 2010, 10:49 PM
There seemed to be a gate screw-up in the ep too. Destiny dials the planet and Eli and Scott come through the gate onto Destiny. Two-way wormholes? Lol, that's new in Stargate.That isn't what happened. Destiny tried to dial in, but the gate just shook without dialling. Eli then dialled in using his remote.


I'm also worried about the LA situation. The writers got rid of a bunch of them in this episode. Soon enough, there won't be anyone left and another major cop-out will unfold.All nameless grunts. They kept the important ones.


On a side note, let me just say that Robert Knepper is being seriously underused in SGU. The same applies to LDP and Ming-Na. Why hire well-known actors if you don't intend to use them, or don't know what to do with them?Patience. Their arcs will come now that they're permanent crew.

kymeric
October 5th, 2010, 10:54 PM
Which one? :D Just kidding... ;)

Lol, the LA dude. It was pretty messed up watching Reilley die. How weirds that? A dying dude asks for help dying and its upsetting, whereas a bad guy is trying to hurt/kill people and gets beat to death and its manly. Ow my humanity hurts.

Derocalypse
October 5th, 2010, 10:56 PM
This episode was just ok to me, I wasn't really impressed. There was some cool moments and sad moments, but still an ok episode. Still slow for me I guess. Now next weeks episode looks like more my kind of thing. :)

PG15
October 5th, 2010, 11:03 PM
I don't know. How about moving it upward:rolleyes:

It makes no sense for people like Greer and Eli to be standing on top of it and then walking through it like the average gate. Their is an orientation error if the gate wasn't moved up ward

Are we seriously having this conversation? :P

Greer and Eli were standing on top of it while it was buried to the top; it was like the situation with the Stargate at the beginning of The Shrine except with rocks instead of water and with the rocks burying the gate all the way to the top. The gate was vertical.

They they started digging, exposing the vertical gate. They then got lazy and blew away the rest of the crap buring the vertical gate, leaving the vertical gate mostly-unburied and standing vertically.

The End.

Anyway, the episode was...heavy. It's hard to really think of it as one episode as it clearly continued what Season 1 and Intervention started, and the emotions were just piled on more and more. It will take time for me to digest it, like with most SGU episodes. For now though, I can safely say that I liked it a lot!

coZma
October 5th, 2010, 11:05 PM
Awesome episode. Great performances from thee actors and amazing special effects. I really didn't expect to get rid of the LA guys like that even if that was the best choice. Also right until the end I thought something was gonna happen and Riley will be saved. It was just an amazing episode

SciFiRick
October 5th, 2010, 11:33 PM
This was a really good episode. Before I knew it was almost over. That is an indicator for me that I am locked in and not bored.

It was not surprising that Young felt like all of the LA should be dropped "off" world but his emotions is keeping him from using logic.
It is assumed that Telford knew Young's state of mind which is why he used the stones to contact the SGC and came back with the IOA/SGC orders. I would also assume that the SGC knows that Young would be in that state of mind after what has happened. Good move Telford!

Finding the bridge is long awaited. There was something that appeared on the console during the controls lock up that Parks was trying to fix that may have told Rush where to go. He went straight down a corridor to an elevator. He knew the right buttons to push on the elevator to take him up. The main door (possibly a blast door) required a code to open then depresses the button that exposes the bridge. The bridge powers up and then the blast doors on the windows lowers. I am assuming that it could be an optical illusion on whether the bridge is rising or that the blast doors were lowering to give the rising affect. I will have to view that scene again.

The manifestation of Gloria & Franklin may just be a result of Rush being in the chair and he is still wirelessly linked or Rush who is very much deprived of sleep and rest may be creating his own manifestations. This reminds me of McKay manifesting Sam Carter when the jumper sank to the bottom of the ocean. That was his subconscious rationalizing and working through the problem. Of course, McKay was not deprived of sleep but felt he was going to die. Either way, the case could be made that his subconscious created Gloria & Franklin more than it being tied to the chair.

Great special effects with the shuttle scenes. We never find out why the shuttle lost power after it cleared the turbulence but maybe it was intended to be a mystery and assumed that the turbulence had a direct effect on the failure.

It is apparent that Telford's cover was blown but not sure how or exactly when that unfolded. I didn't think that part was explained very well. This episode did not show any reactions from the LA guys that were selected to stay or dropped off world. Telford gave the list to Varro and then the next time we see the LA guys they were being sent through the gate and I assume on the planet that the shuttled crashed. I did see trees in the background and during the crash so was this a viable planet to survive on?

The problem with the gate not working was answered. After everyone tried to clear the rock from the gate then our favorite explosive, C4 came to the rescue. Clearing away all the rock that had apparently fallen and covered up the Stargate. Fortunately, it was still in an upright position for if it had fallen then you would have a 50/50 chance that the gate was facing up on the right side for the crew to return to Destiny and I don't think the LA guys could have walked through the gate if it had been lying down.
The TJ/Riley conversations were interesting and compelling. TJ tells Riley about the obelisk planet/baby story but unknowingly Parks was on the other side in which she heard every word. Hummm.

For me it ended up that the Riley character was the shock of the episode. Didn't see that coming. I have been trying to determine why Young was holding his breath as he agreed to Riley's request. Young's emotions have really gotten worse for you actually see tears. He will soon bottom out but I believe that he will find that certain spark that makes him turn the corner and be the leader we want to see. It is going to take a few more episodes if this is going to happen.

Simeon was in a very few scenes but he was basically a no show for this episode. Ginn had an interesting story to tell about how she ended up with the LA but is any or all of it true? Young said it; people will say anything to survive. I think that I saw Coz as one of the LA guys remaining on the ship. If so, he just might be the next Riley type of character.

This episode definitely brought out a lot of different emotions for me as a fan. It did have some hiccups or skipped over some things quickly but in my opinion this was an episode that was not boring.

And finally (mercifully)

The previews for next weeks episode brings my excitement level up another notch.

meo3000
October 5th, 2010, 11:45 PM
Young is not fit for command anymore.

Rush is not fit for command, ever.

Wray is useless as usual.

Riley is dead... well the one in that universe is. He could always make a comeback if they ever cross path with another Destiny from another universe... I bet that Destiny is in top shape and as shuttles too...

wurlitzer153
October 5th, 2010, 11:50 PM
There seemed to be a gate screw-up in the ep too. Destiny dials the planet and Eli and Scott come through the gate onto Destiny. Two-way wormholes? Lol, that's new in Stargate.

From what I could tell, and this was not too clearly shown, Destiny tried dialing but couldn't connect because the event horizon was still partially blocked. The shaking stopped when the connection failed. They finished clearing the event horizon and dialed out. This is canon; the most notable mention was in "A Hundred Days," the gate was still active when buried causing the rock to harden away from the event horizon. In that case, the gate was able to connect.

Pharaoh Atem
October 5th, 2010, 11:57 PM
Young was pretty sweet choking that dude to death.

that's nothing wait till he finds out rush unlocked the master code. destiny beat down pt 4

SciFiRick
October 6th, 2010, 12:11 AM
that's nothing wait till he finds out rush unlocked the master code. destiny beat down pt 4

Yes, I am looking forward to that moment as well.

Kanten
October 6th, 2010, 12:13 AM
Just as a reference regarding the gate in this episode - if you all recall SG1's "Memento" (season 6), where the Tagrean gate was found buried, it took at least a dozen big husky men with ropes and pulleys and a couple of large pieces of equipment to raise the gate from being flat. There's no way our small band of survivors could have raised the gate in this episode with their bare hands and some C4.

They didn't raise the gate though. It was standing up the entire time, just buried in rocks.

morbosfist
October 6th, 2010, 12:40 AM
They didn't raise the gate though. It was standing up the entire time, just buried in rocks.He's talking about the Tagrean gate, not the SGU gate. His point is that it had to be upright because they could not have lifted it themselves.

latvian_stargatefan
October 6th, 2010, 01:07 AM
After watching this one I thought to myself- is this Rob Cooper episode? And I found out that it is. Rob can really write SGU, imho. I'm sad that he left the show since, I believe, he is the most capable of them all to write good drama not forgetting about an interesting plot.

I'd rate this as the second best episode of SGU only surpassed by "Time". And only because the whole Ginn and Wray conversation in the beginning about evil Lucians felt a tad cheesy... Otherwise, as it was already mentioned, the episode was pretty flawless. Everything had purpose here- the Lucian mutiny and problem to reveal Young's state of mind and add a little of discussion on ''are we better if we do the same thing Lucians wanted to do with us''- i.e. leave only some useful people on the ship, send others to some planet', Riley's death to continue torturing of Young and let TJ talk about the last week's events, Rush's hallucinations to question his sanity and morality. Also the finding of the gate room and revelation that he had switched auto pilot on pretty much addresses the ending of "Light" where Young suspected him that maybe he knew they would survive all along. He might've not known but I guess he had a pretty good hunch about it...

It was a great episode from all the aspects- camera work, lighting (especially beautiful), score, dialogue, CGI, a bit of action. Yes, some people might complain that there was too little action but you can't do significant amount of drama in episode like SGA "Sateda'' or "Storm/Eye'' two parter... It's just not SGU, these eps were great in SGA but they really wouldn't feel like SGU... I say that because I generally loved such eps in SGA but none of such SGU eps like "Space", "Incursion part 1", "Intervention'' haven't been among my favourites.

This was a good hour of television and I hope they can replace Rob if SGU continues into the 3rd season because he can write SGU like almost no other current Stargate writer...

Vapor
October 6th, 2010, 01:15 AM
This was a very solid episode. Though I do find it slightly odd that the title is "Aftermath," considering the main thrust of the episode doesn't feel much like one.

The subplot surrounding the Lucian Alliance takeover of the ship makes up only a small portion of an episode that seemed much more concerned with Rush making new discoveries and stranding the shuttle team on a potentially dangerous planet. Compared to all of that, the Alliance members getting divided up and dealt with is almost an afterthought for me.

Rush's line about how Young is mentally unstable is just delicious, considering how much of a basketcase Rush has recently turned into, given everything he's learned and still refuses to explain to the others. It's really just an excuse for him to keep working on his own without interference from the others, painting a picture of Young for himself that is so much worse than himself, when he should know deep down that he's not exactly the perfect guy for the leadership position either.

Which is part of why I loved the moment when Riley says to Young that he'd ask him for his gun, but he wouldn't want everyone else to blame him for it. I can't tell whether that's just a comment about the crew and everything that's happened since they got to Destiny, or if it's a friendly jab at some of the fans that want to nail Young to the wall for every decision he's ever made. I'd like to think it's a little from column A, and a little from column B. >_>

Speaking of Riley. What horrible irony for him to have been so loved in the first season, and missed by fans ever since he was injured, and then we finally get him back, only for him to be killed shortly after. They really wanted to twist the knife on this one. And it worked. From the sudden frankness of letting TJ knows he's going to die, to the moment which he practically begs for Young to put him out of his misery, it was all very powerful. Not only because I loved Riley and will miss having him around. But also because it's just one more thing Young has to deal with internally.

The guy just had his ship taken over, the mother of his child shot, the child itself (for all he knows) killed. And all of this came after the mutiny. Before, during, and after which he gets to have his every motivation and action questioned to an extreme degree. No human being could be sleeping well with all of that on his plate. I have to wonder if the writers are going to address the laundry list of problems with some kind of nervous breakdown or something. I wouldn't blame him. The guy's just being destroyed one hour at a time.

On a more superficial level, that crash sequence was pretty epic. The visuals, combined with the excellent music created one of the most exciting "action" scenes in the entire series so far for me. The moment where the shuttle continues to slide across the ground, unable to stop itself until finally slamming into the wall was just fantastically crafted.

Overall, it was a good episode. Though I hope they don't plan to drag out the mystery of the people in Rush's head for much longer. I was already starting to grow impatient with the whole concept by the time it was over. I'm not sure I'd be pleased with six more weeks of this.

timmciglobal
October 6th, 2010, 01:36 AM
My favorite part of this episode was just the simple fact that rush starts asking questions many of us have been screaming about since the 2nd planet. How does destiny know the condition of the planets? Why is it picking when to drop out? Why is there a time limit? What the hell was destiny's mission?

Eli being so naive is getting annoying though. It's like an 8 year old saying "but I want to!." Reminds me of really early Daniel Jackson and his inability to balance the needs of SGC with the local people/scientific exploration. Eli really needs a galvanizing moment where he grows up because it's getting annoying.

Tim

Sapphire_Jade
October 6th, 2010, 01:44 AM
Eli being so naive is getting annoying though. It's like an 8 year old saying "but I want to!." Reminds me of really early Daniel Jackson and his inability to balance the needs of SGC with the local people/scientific exploration. Eli really needs a galvanizing moment where he grows up because it's getting annoying.

Tim

I agree he is getting a bit annoying.. I like Eli he is one of my fav characters, but there is a point where he is going to have to learn and grow up and stop complaining. If his character doesn't sometime soon I think he might drop low on my favorite characters list. Especially since there are other that are starting to grow on me like Rush for one..

OutandAboot
October 6th, 2010, 02:17 AM
Interview with Haig Sutherland
'Stargate Universe' exclusive: Haig Sutherland and the life of Riley ('http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/show-patrol/2010/10/stargate-universe-exclusive-haig-sutherland-and-the-life-of-riley.html)

Really good episode, and I liked that we got to know more about LA and what they know about the ship, or what the legend says.

mparsons1981
October 6th, 2010, 02:56 AM
I agree he is getting a bit annoying.. I like Eli he is one of my fav characters, but there is a point where he is going to have to learn and grow up and stop complaining. If his character doesn't sometime soon I think he might drop low on my favorite characters list. Especially since there are other that are starting to grow on me like Rush for one..

Yes i do agree with this. Eli is starting to turn into a bit of a one-note character unfortunately. Though comparing him to Rush is a bit unfair, as he is, (along with Young perhaps), the strongest element in the show. Given that Robert Carlyle is the strongest actor that stargate, and i include sg1 and atlantis in that, has ever had, it is great to see him given such a great character.

Shai Hulud
October 6th, 2010, 03:10 AM
Why kill off Riley?! Couldnt another more minor character have been selected to bite the dust? Sheesh! :(

meo3000
October 6th, 2010, 03:14 AM
Anyone else annoyed with the fact that the unwanted LA soldiers just went away without even trying to prove their usefulness. I mean its one thing to be dropped off on a planet in the Milky Way, you can still have hope someone will come by on a ship, but a billion lightyears away, doing the exile thing with no supplies, its a death sentence. Still they walk through that gate like its a sweet deal. I dont get it. Oh and if youre gonna send them to their death, might as well keep their clothes. Dont tell me its not humane, leaving them is not humane, so...

Eternal Density
October 6th, 2010, 03:26 AM
I'd rate this as better than last week's, which wasn't shabby itself.
The kinovid of Riley scene brought tears to my eyes. Well done!
Also I really enjoyed Rush's self-imposed dilemma of having to find ways to help without letting on that he can somewhat control Destiny. :D
And the scene about Lucian Alliance legends and such was a good one too.

your not going to win. your right but once jels convinced of something you won't win.IMHO, jelgate was standing up the entire time.
[edit]Oh yeah, that crash was EPIC!

Shai Hulud
October 6th, 2010, 03:33 AM
Anyone else annoyed with the fact that the unwanted LA soldiers just went away without even trying to prove their usefulness. I mean its one thing to be dropped off on a planet in the Milky Way, you can still have hope someone will come by on a ship, but a billion lightyears away, doing the exile thing with no supplies, its a death sentence. Still they walk through that gate like its a sweet deal. I dont get it. Oh and if youre gonna send them to their death, might as well keep their clothes. Dont tell me its not humane, leaving them is not humane, so...

Riley was the most humane of the Destinites "How we treat prisoners in war says everything about us as a moral and civil society." Says it all really.

FoX-1028
October 6th, 2010, 03:39 AM
WOW. One of the best SGU episodes for me.

RIP Riley :(

Shai Hulud
October 6th, 2010, 03:43 AM
Have to laugh at the scene where the shuttle clips the mountain and just keeps on going on its course without so much as a twitch. It would have been spinning all over the place after such an impact. Poor CGI.

Commander Zelix
October 6th, 2010, 03:45 AM
I did read your post, but kudos on the baseless assumption.

This episode was partly emotion, but to wholly discount the plot, as you so clearly did, is ridiculous. Unless you're sitting on the next few episodes, you lack the necessary context. "Peter" worked as a standalone that set things up for the rest of the season. We don't really know yet with "Aftermath". I mean, you pretty blatantly left out the "Rush finds the bridge" part of then plot. If you willfully ignore major plot points, I just can't take you seriously when you say that an episode lacks plot.

It's not a baseless assumption unless you think Fringe is a Sci-fi anthology series. And there's no way the episode Peter is a standalone. Even if you don't know anything about what's next on that show. There's simply a good plot with some dramatic depth with a lot of peripety.

If you like the Aftermath episode good for you. But don't tell me that episode had a great plot or a lot of peripety. It didn't. The A-plot is the crew crash their shuttle on a planet looking for food, find the stargate and get back on the Destiny. All while somebody die. (B plot. Rush find the bridge and don't tell anybody talking to something).

There was a lot of character moments in that episode but the plot is as flimsy as it can get. Beside Riley dying stuck under something, almost nothing happened on that empty planet.

It's ok for other people to have like this episode. I think it was a complete borefest. 3/10 was almost too generous. It's just my honest opinion.

SG1Commander
October 6th, 2010, 03:50 AM
Greer was stand on top in the beginning. It wasn't standing up at first
The gate was standing up at first. The Gate weighs thousands of tons so, if it wasn't standing up, how could they lift it.

Vapor
October 6th, 2010, 04:21 AM
It seemed pretty obvious to me that the gate was always standing up. They never moved it- just moved the rocks surrounding it. I honestly would never have even considered anything else if I hadn't read it here.

Commander Zelix
October 6th, 2010, 04:23 AM
While not that important to the overall plot of the episode which is basically Riley dying. I found that a bit too convenient, if I didn't miss anything, to have Greer simply stumble on the Stargate like that. What are the odds...

Radahldo
October 6th, 2010, 04:28 AM
I really liked how calm Scott was all throughout the episode. He's very good in a crisis.

Osiris
October 6th, 2010, 05:00 AM
That was one of the most emotionally intense Stargate episodes ever! The shots of Riley with the sun light on his face were beautiful. His eyes... :(

General Jumper One
October 6th, 2010, 05:20 AM
Given that Robert Carlyle is the strongest actor that stargate, and i include sg1 and atlantis in that, has ever had, it is great to see him given such a great character.

David Hewlett was an excellent actor, he was just written poorly

Stormtrooper
October 6th, 2010, 05:38 AM
From what I could tell, and this was not too clearly shown, Destiny tried dialing but couldn't connect because the event horizon was still partially blocked. The shaking stopped when the connection failed. They finished clearing the event horizon and dialed out. This is canon; the most notable mention was in "A Hundred Days," the gate was still active when buried causing the rock to harden away from the event horizon. In that case, the gate was able to connect.

You're right. Destiny tried to dial out, but the planet's gate started shaking as if the two gates were in close proximity (Solitudes). After removing a couple of rocks from the event horizon, Eli managed to establish a connection to Destiny. But yeah, that's bull crap and goes against canon as far as I can tell. Heck, most gates are embedded on the floor, so they are always partially obstructed, but never failed to receive an incoming wormhole because of it.

Dusk
October 6th, 2010, 05:58 AM
I'm sorry guys, I give this a thumbs down. And not because Riley is dead (why didn't they just sever his lower torso?), but because... well it all just feels a bit hollow, forced, and lifeless (pardon the pun). It's great there is a new set for us to take in, but otherwise the episode left nothing but the faintest of afterthoughts which soon blinked out of existence.

I also see the ol' Vancouver quarry makes a comeback after trying so hard not to in season 1. Hopefully, these first two eps are a clearing of the throat in preparation for the overture that is to come.

Briangate78
October 6th, 2010, 06:34 AM
You know what was interesting about this episode? There was no Chloe in this episode, and no one here even mentioned that, I don't think. They are already sidelining characters, and you have to with such a big cast. I'd rather have more Wray than Chloe anyway.

latvian_stargatefan
October 6th, 2010, 06:36 AM
well it all just feels a bit hollow, forced, and lifeless

Totally disagree... Intervention was forced, Air 3 was forced and hollow, Life was forced, hollow and lifeless. This definitely wasn't. But not all people will be 100% satisfied with every ep...

latvian_stargatefan
October 6th, 2010, 06:46 AM
Have to laugh at the scene where the shuttle clips the mountain and just keeps on going on its course without so much as a twitch. It would have been spinning all over the place after such an impact. Poor CGI.
Do you know much about how these shuttles operate? It's Ancient tech. if this was Earth tech, after such an impact it would've lost the wing and would spin out of control. But... it's Ancient tech. They have anti-gravity tech, inertial dampeners on board and all the cool stuff, I wouldn't be surprised that mountain suffered a lot more than shuttle did- and, in fact, we saw that the exterior of the shuttle wasn't really damaged.

CommanderZelix, my personal view is that characters and their interaction is more important than plot. I've loved several movies with no plot at all where only characters keep me engaged. I liked SGA but I'm not sure if I could sit through some episodes if there wasn't McKay and his humour... because other characters were pretty clichee. But you are a person for whom the plot is more important I understand.

I haven't watched Fringe since, I gues, episode 12 in the first season... after that I lost interest. Maybe it has improved but from what I saw the characters were clichee and not that interesting... and the show was pretty cheezy. But maybe I should try to check some episodes, especially this one, if it is so good. :)

Shai Hulud
October 6th, 2010, 07:04 AM
Do you know much about how these shuttles operate? It's Ancient tech. if this was Earth tech, after such an impact it would've lost the wing and would spin out of control. But... it's Ancient tech. They have anti-gravity tech, inertial dampeners on board and all the cool stuff, I wouldn't be surprised that mountain suffered a lot more than shuttle did- and, in fact, we saw that the exterior of the shuttle wasn't really damaged.

Wow! Do all these marvellous pieces of ancient technology operate without power by using the ancients magical pixie dust? Regardless of any tech they may have had on board, hitting the side of a mountain is going to change the direction that the shuttle is flying / gliding on, its a matter of physics.

yessika
October 6th, 2010, 07:27 AM
My only issue with this episode is that they killed Riley *sigh* The characters I like always get killed *shakes head*

The rest of the episode I really enjoyed even with the lack of Chloe :)

Orion475
October 6th, 2010, 07:29 AM
This episode just amazes. Ever since SGU premiered it has surpassed SG-1 and Atlantis in intelligence. I have grown up with SG-1 and Atlantis and I believe Stargate has been taken in a new and very appropriate direction.

Sapphire_Jade
October 6th, 2010, 07:30 AM
My only issue with this episode is that they killed Riley *sigh* The characters I like always get killed *shakes head*

The rest of the episode I really enjoyed even with the lack of Chloe :)
there was a lack of Chloe wasn't there? I hadn't noticed.. huh...wow that says something!...lol.. Riley was a favorite of mine too I cried in this episode because he died!!

Briangate78
October 6th, 2010, 07:52 AM
there was a lack of Chloe wasn't there? I hadn't noticed.. huh...wow that says something!...lol.. Riley was a favorite of mine too I cried in this episode because he died!!

Lack? There was no Chloe. :eek:

Shai Hulud
October 6th, 2010, 07:55 AM
Lack? There was no Chloe. :eek:

There is no Chloe at all, only a blueberry undergoing its initial metamorphosis! :D

Shai Hulud
October 6th, 2010, 07:55 AM
Lack? There was no Chloe. :eek:

And actually there WAS Chloe, you see her comforting Scott right at the end ;)

Cairistiona
October 6th, 2010, 07:57 AM
I really liked this ep. Well, I didn't like that Riley had to die, but it was very emotionally and another thing for Young to live with. Rush finding the bridge was great and all his explanations why Destiny dropped out of FTL. But Young seems to suspect something.
Chloe was missing? Ah, yes, thinking of it, there was something missing;)

Briangate78
October 6th, 2010, 08:01 AM
And actually there WAS Chloe, you see her comforting Scott right at the end ;)

wow really? Missed that one. :p

Kaiphantom
October 6th, 2010, 08:02 AM
If Gloria is his conscience in some way, then she was absolutely right in saying that his negligence was directly responsible for putting the shuttle crew in that situation in the first place. You're correct that if he decided to be truthful about the access code, things would have been different.

Rush is still rationalizing away his egregious tactics and the body count under the pretext of "the greater good." He wasn't saving lives, though he may sincerely believe he's trying to do that. His actions in Aftermath aren't about the welfare of the crew no matter how much he can rationalize or justify it as such. This is about him being in control and proving that he's right.

He claims that Young is mentally unstable and unfit for command. Well, Young isn't seeing Gloria or Jeremy Franklin in his mind right now. That and there's the oh-so-little bit of dishonesty about the master code. On top of that, he cost them a shuttle and the life of a well-liked and excellent crewman. His hypocrisy is infuriating. Rush is WRONG. Period. He is NOT fit for command.

You're fine for not liking Rush, but you're going to have to find better reasons. For one, it's not clear Gloria is his conscience. The very fact that Franklin showed up, shows that something more is going on.

Also, it wasn't entirely Rush's fault for what happened to Riley. Yes, he stopped the ship so that they could take a shuttle to the planet, but Young gave the orders to, and they needed supplies. It's all well and good to say it was a bad choice after the fact, but you didn't know early on (unless you kept in touch with spoilers). Faced with dwindling supplies and a planet that has vegetation, you'd make the same call. I'd be willing to bet that if Rush was truthful and open about finding the bridge and the planet, Young would have ordered a stop and shuttle trip.

And by the way, even if he's seeing things, it's clearly explained by his lack of sleep and his nightmares over being tortured (yeah, see how well YOU hold up after being tortured). Young, on the other hand, has no such excuses.

On another note, yeah, I didn't even notice Chloe was gone. And apparently, no one else really did, either. Says a lot about her character, really, that she's so forgettable. Given her lines in Justice, I'd almost say she would have been the better candidate to say what Riley did about prisoners of war. But then, I suppose they needed Riley to say them to emphasize his ultimate role. Perhaps Chloe can step up more and be the group's conscious, but I dread that, because she sounds so whiny when she does (Eli suffers a bit from this, too). Also, consciences generally only work in idealistic universe, and as we've established, SGU is a cynical one.

The Mighty 6 platoon
October 6th, 2010, 08:07 AM
I'm sorry guys, I give this a thumbs down. And not because Riley is dead (why didn't they just sever his lower torso?)
Eh? Are we watching different shows? I mean the show I'm watching they have barely any medical supplies, no doctor and one medic. Riley to remove him would at the very least require the amputation of both limbs, a rather complex operation and not one to be conducted in the back of a crashed shuttle with no supplies or tools. Actually it looked like Riley was buried up to his waist which would require a hemicorporectomy. Removing the lower torso and everything beneath it is an incredibly complex operation which has only been attempted a few dozen times. Most hospitals have do not resuscitate protocols for those that require an emergency hemicorporectomy.

Anyway to the episode itself, I think this must take the prize for most disturbing death on Stargate. Great acting both by Haig Sutherland and Louis Ferreira. And I’m glad that they have started killing off characters we like. It adds to the sense of danger, the fact that even on just a routine supply run you can die. As for the rest of the episode it seems to be coming along nicely, both Rush and Young are slowly losing it and there seems to be plenty of potential for conflict with Telford. The lead in to next week has me excited as well and hopefully it will continue this upward trend.

jelgate
October 6th, 2010, 08:13 AM
Lack? There was no Chloe. :eek:

Not true. She was in one 5 second scene with no lines.

Jump237
October 6th, 2010, 08:32 AM
I have Verizon FiOS TV, and in the Info menu for last week's episode, Intervention, it read, "Rush makes a discovery that he keeps from rest of the Destiny crew."

They're dropping spoilers for upcoming eps!

Lesson learned: Never push the "Info" button.

EvilSpaceAlien
October 6th, 2010, 08:39 AM
And by the way, even if he's seeing things, it's clearly explained by his lack of sleep and his nightmares over being tortured (yeah, see how well YOU hold up after being tortured). Young, on the other hand, has no such excuses.

Y'know, except for having the mother of his unborn child shot, and as far as he knows his unborn daughter is dead. It may or may not be alive on the Faith planet, but that's a whole other discussion. I don't think you can take the emotional stress he's going through, lightly. I believe anyone who has lost a child or a loved one would agree to this.

Atlanis
October 6th, 2010, 09:12 AM
blooming heck when Young killed Riley lord i never thought i'd see that on stargate what a powrful peice of drama i wonder how'll it effect him i know it was done out of compassion but man that's woo! talk about things you'd never thought you'd see!

VampyreWraith
October 6th, 2010, 09:21 AM
wow, until I read it right now I really hadn't noticed that Chloe was barely in this episode.

YoshiKart64
October 6th, 2010, 10:19 AM
I thought this episode was actually great. Emotionally charged and had some good character development all round. Add that to the ending which promises something cool next week and you have a winner.

leiasky
October 6th, 2010, 10:21 AM
wow, until I read it right now I really hadn't noticed that Chloe was barely in this episode.

It was wonderful:)

Could someone explain to me how they lifted and powered the gate? They 'crashed' close enough to the gate to get there quickly, huh?

Everything seemed to wrap too conveniently around the character drama for me. There was no tense 'we're stuck here if Destiny jumps'. I'm really trying to find something to enjoy in SGU but I really prefer plot to the overabundance of character drama which is what SGU is going for. I'm just not invested in it, nor do I really care that Riley died to be honest. Sad moment, to be sure, and the best part of the episode (minus Young's decision to make the man suffer instead of using a bullet) for me.

I enjoyed the premier more.

kirmit
October 6th, 2010, 10:30 AM
Could someone explain to me how they lifted and powered the gate? They 'crashed' close enough to the gate to get there quickly, huh?

I wondered this aswell. In the Original film it took dozens of men with ropes to life the gate, I can't see how they managed it. As for powersouce, I assume the gate has it;s own built into it, it wasn't out of power afterall, just buried.

Damn SGU, in the history of the franchise I've only ever been brought to tears, once, Meridan but SGU has managed it twice in 2 weeks, not saying it's a bad thing though.

Shai Hulud
October 6th, 2010, 10:33 AM
Gate was still standing, Greer stands on the top of it when he 'discovers' its location. It was just surrounded by rubble.

Skygate
October 6th, 2010, 10:38 AM
Damn SGU, in the history of the franchise I've only ever been brought to tears, once, Meridan but SGU has managed it twice in 2 weeks, not saying it's a bad thing though.

What about Heroes, pt 2? :(

kirmit
October 6th, 2010, 10:50 AM
What about Heroes, pt 2? :(

For some reason no, Fraisers death didn't affect me.

leiasky
October 6th, 2010, 10:54 AM
Gate was still standing, Greer stands on the top of it when he 'discovers' its location. It was just surrounded by rubble.


Looked like it was laying down flat to me but ok.

All the explosives planted around it should have caused it to explode - not power it up. :/

kirmit
October 6th, 2010, 10:57 AM
Looked like it was laying down flat to me but ok.

All the explosives planted around it should have caused it to explode - not power it up. :/

After all the things we've seen done to a stargate in the past I doubt a bit of C4 would cause it to explode.

hedwig
October 6th, 2010, 11:00 AM
Looked like it was laying down flat to me but ok.

All the explosives planted around it should have caused it to explode - not power it up. :/

Except that in "100 Days", the gate survived a direct hit by a meteor, even though it wound up buried. So a bunch of C4 doesn't seem like it would equal a meteor strike. And other gates have survived massive explosions, as well.

And it was standing up, buried in the rubble that Greer was standing on top of. The rest of the group with him had to climb up the "hill" piled around it to reach Greer.

Replicator Todd
October 6th, 2010, 11:00 AM
David Hewlett was an excellent actor, he was just written poorly

Pshhh! I think he is a great writer and was written perfectly! :)

Skiznot
October 6th, 2010, 11:01 AM
What I liked best about this episode was the questioned asked by Franklin/Rush's wife entity. As far as the crash landing, it only seemed to serve the Rush story. Did feel pointless in from the single episode perspective but understanding why the engines cut out might give it some more context. Oh and it will give young another good reason to want to take Rush out of the equation and not that I needed more convincing but justifies his attempt to strand him in the first place. Some people seem to think it was bad of Young to abandon Rush in "Justice" but weather it was wise or not, Rush definitely deserved it.

Oh and while we're voting. I thought when Greer first found the stargate it was standing but burried. That's how I saw it.

ciannwn
October 6th, 2010, 11:02 AM
Haven't seen the episode yet but I'm not bothered about spoilers.


It adds to the sense of danger, the fact that even on just a routine supply run you can die.

Only if you're a well liked secondary character. :p I'm expecting James to be killed off some time - she seems to be fairly popular because she's got her own appreciation thread. I'd be more impressed if they added to the sense of danger by killing off Young, Scott, Telford, Eli, Chloe, Greer or TJ. I didn't include Rush because it would be impossible to replace him although I don't like him and find him very dull - I'd put him in the same character category as Cigarette Smoking Man (The X-Files) and Gul Dukat (DS9) but he's hardly in the same league. (Subjective personal opinion here I hasten to add.)

I'm really annoyed about Riley because he was the one character I actually liked. :( :(

leiasky
October 6th, 2010, 11:05 AM
Only if you're a well liked secondary character. :p I'm expecting James to be killed off some time - she seems to be fairly popular because she's got her own appreciation thread. (

Oh I doubt that will happen. I'm sure I don't need to explain why.


After all the things we've seen done to a stargate in the past I doubt a bit of C4 would cause it to explode.

No. You're right. I agree. All the stuff surrounding the gate, getting it up and working and getting back to Destiny was just too 'convenient' for me to be really believable.

ciannwn
October 6th, 2010, 11:08 AM
Oh I doubt that will happen. I'm sure I don't need to explain why.

:lol: You're probably right. I quite like James so maybe it will be safe if I make her my favourite character from now on. :p

09Shan
October 6th, 2010, 11:48 AM
Great episode Sad to see Riley Killed off but thought it we inevitable for one of the characters to be axed after all the new Lucian Members that were added this season. Rush continues to be sneaky and awesome though i side with him in this case as he proved last week that he is willing to make the tough decisions that Col. Young is not willing to make to survive. Wouldn't surprise me if Rush or Col. Telford are put in charge before the end of this season young looks like he is on the verge of having a mental breakdown especially in this episode. So far Season 2 is 2 for 2 wow a lot of 2s bring on Episode 3!!!

Lahela
October 6th, 2010, 12:04 PM
Just to end the "gate was buried upright" vs "no it wasn't" argument... no it wasn't.

Petra
October 6th, 2010, 12:19 PM
I haven't read through the thread yet but I've just finished watching Aftermath and I wanted to say straight away that I LOVED it. Easily one of the best episodes so far, who knows, maybe even the best.

Okay, what did I like?

Riley. Oh Riley. Let me just say first that I really liked his character, although he wasn't one of my favourites. Avoiding spoilers like crazy, I had no idea what would happen to him, so I admit to doing some :rolleyes: when he was the only one to be injured again. The first surprise came when he himself mentioned it. The second came, when he said he was going to die and TJ didn't contadict him. The third was, when he did die. The fourth, how he died. Wow. I never expected to see something like that on Stargate and I'm kinda speechless. Hell, I even cried and I *never* cry watching Stargate. :o I think it was very, very well done. In retrospect it was all set up very carefully and believeably, with his 2 close calls and letting us, the audience, get to know him. He was probably one of the most decent people onboard...his conversation with TJ was very touching and, well, human. And how he died. I wasn't expecting this at all. At first I thought he'd die naturally and then when he begged Young to help him (and I had a weird flashback to Abyss and Jack asking Daniel to do the same) I fully expected Young to give him his loaded gun and leave, letting him end his life by his own hand. I certainly didn't expect strangling. I've seen some critique of Young because of that, but I think he did it this way because he'd promised Riley he wouldn't die alone and true to his word he stayed with him to the very end. Again, wow. It was a very emotional scene.

I also liked how at the end everybody was shown grieving him. Interesting, that Greer was the one making toast.

Next, I adored TJ. She was strong and vulnerable at the same time but always in appropriate moments, she was honest and professional and she allowed herself to be a friend first and foremost when Riley needed one. It was a great episode for her.

Young continues to slip and I can't help but wonder when will he hit the bottom. As of now he still has some restraint left, as evidenced by not killing LA guy. I also wouldn't give too much weight to him drinking again, because if you are not allowed to drink when you just helped kill himself your subordinate, when can you drink? Between losing his baby and Riley, the guy certainly doesn't have it easy.

I'm surprised to say it, but I think I'm warming up to Rush. There's no question that he royally screwed up in this episode and there will be hell to pay when people (Young) find out, but I sorta liked him. his talks with Gloria were interesting, and Franklin showing up was a nice touch.

Camille seems to do something useful for a change, I wonder where are they taking her character.

I want to see more of Ginn. The snippet of info about possible attack on Earth was interesting.

Also, I can't say I missed Chloe. It was nice to see Becker again. :D

As to the shuttle plot, I liked it. I adore James so it was cool to see her. It was even cooler to see her in charge and cooler still to see her working closely with Greer. I'd love the two of them to have more screentime together, and have their friendship developed, because there's some awesome potential there.

Greer rocks, that is all. :D

Eli seemed somehow toned down, and I'm wondering what's going on in that head of his. I also found his repeated questions of Riley's well-being heartbreaking. I think Scott was trying to be considerate with his answers, but he isn't a good liar.

It will be interesting to see how the crew will manage without the shuttle.

All in all, fantastic episode. I don't think there was anything I didn't like. Almost every storyline was touched upon, the planet was cool, the visuals were stunning as always, the main plot was very effective, Riley's death was done very well - I'd go as far as to say it was the best death in the franchise, the pace was fairly fast, the ending was interesting and leaving you wanting more. Great job TPTB!

Lahela
October 6th, 2010, 12:25 PM
Loved the little balances in this ep. Young nearly choking an LA guy through nutjob criminality, then suffocating Riley through compassion. That was a great juxtaposition. Ginn talking about the gate address leading to god-like powers, then Rush insanely playing god. That was frightening.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I want Varro in charge of the ship - he's the most level-headed person there :p

LtColCarter
October 6th, 2010, 12:52 PM
Enjoyed the episode. It seems that SGU is really stepping up this season.

SciFiRick
October 6th, 2010, 01:29 PM
For some reason no, Fraisers death didn't affect me.

It wasn't just Frasier's death, it is how it all came together in the end that made it emotional. You felt a since of pride and patriotism and that Saul didn't screw it up as all the personnel at the SGC thought he would do. All of the SGC members ate crow in the end and thought the work done was exceptional. It was all in how the 2-parter ended that brings out any deep emotions.

PG15
October 6th, 2010, 01:51 PM
You're fine for not liking Rush, but you're going to have to find better reasons. For one, it's not clear Gloria is his conscience. The very fact that Franklin showed up, shows that something more is going on.

Also, it wasn't entirely Rush's fault for what happened to Riley. Yes, he stopped the ship so that they could take a shuttle to the planet, but Young gave the orders to, and they needed supplies. It's all well and good to say it was a bad choice after the fact, but you didn't know early on (unless you kept in touch with spoilers). Faced with dwindling supplies and a planet that has vegetation, you'd make the same call. I'd be willing to bet that if Rush was truthful and open about finding the bridge and the planet, Young would have ordered a stop and shuttle trip.



But wasn't the problem the turbulence in the atmosphere? Rush and only Rush knew about it and he made the decision (despite Franklin's advice) to let the shuttle keep going instead of making them turn around, and that's what caused the crash.

If given all the info - there's a planet with vegetation, but its atmosphere was very turbulent - I think Young or anyone else may have made a different decision. May.

hedwig
October 6th, 2010, 02:14 PM
For some reason no, Fraisers death didn't affect me.

Probably because we only saw the reaction of Janet's friends and colleagues and Bregman and the film guys; we only saw Janet get hit with the staff blast, and then all those reactions. With Riley, we had to watch while he was dying, and with TJ there talking to him, and then seeing Young with him and what Young did. Big difference in how those two deaths were played out.

KEK
October 6th, 2010, 02:54 PM
Janet's death was brutal I though. It felt really real, if that makes sense. The documentary style it was shot and then played back in the episode might have something to do with it, not to mention the horrible noise she made when she was hit.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAJW-vZ7KLA

TheLastSunset
October 6th, 2010, 03:17 PM
I don't understand - Everett suffocated Riley? You can't suffocate someone that quickly in reality, unless I'm missing something. Why didn't Tamara or people attempt to remove him from the crashed shuttle once they had a gate open with some supplies from Destiny? Or at least administer pain blocking drugs for him. I don't get why he died as well, he wasn't bleeding since she said the pressure on him was stopping it. So he wasn't bleeding to death, was it internal injuries? I thought he just got his legs pinned or something? In which, realistically, you wouldn't die very fast from that. Another thing - why does Young hold his breath as he's 'suffocating' Riley? Was Park lying in the shuttle because she wanted to be with Riley? If so, why was she hiding away from everyone else? Why didn't she help unbury the stargate?

Eternal Density
October 6th, 2010, 03:17 PM
Oh please. Nothing is original. You could decry every aspect of every show on those grounds.Don't give people ideas!

bansidhewail
October 6th, 2010, 03:37 PM
I don't understand - Everett suffocated Riley? You can't suffocate someone that quickly in reality, unless I'm missing something.

Whenever I watch a scene where a character is deprived of air (Jack having to swim through the submerged sections of Atlantis in S3 for example), I wind up holding my breath as I watch, I guess out of sympathy for the characters. And the scene with Riley being smothered went on so long I was desperate to take in air. I would imagine that after being in intense pain and bleeding for hours (the pressure prevented him from bleeding out quickly, not from bleeding out at all), and with the lack of breath enforced from outside so that you couldn't suddenly draw in a breath, that would totally have been long enough to kill a person.

That's part of what made the scene so heavy and brutal to watch; it didn't gloss over what happened, it made you experience it with Young the whole time.

meo3000
October 6th, 2010, 03:53 PM
General Information: the SGU gate has a solid heavy base with a ramp. It has too or the gate would just roll away when dialed, not very practical, dont you think? So the gate will always be upright unless a natural disaster happens and it gets toppled or burried, in that case the gate is unaccessible in Destinys console, like it was in this episode.

LoneStar1836
October 6th, 2010, 04:19 PM
Another solid episode as it moves things along. Can't say I loved it though because I felt that killing Riley was forced.

Loved:

-Rush finding the bridge.
- TJ/Riley scene.

Liked:

- Rush not telling anyone what he's doing. I don't necessarily think that it's the right thing, but that's part of why I enjoy watching the Rush character. He's kinda like Baltar on BSG (heh, especially now that he is talking to what may or may not be imaginary characters. At this point I'm gonna guess they are real and not figments with Franklin's appearance.), though Baltar was far more entertaining.

- Most of the LA being offloaded. It was the logical thing to do given the circumstances. Plus you knew they were going to be dumped somewhere at some point. Which is why I don't fault Rush for stopping Destiny at this planet. Seemingly the only reason Destiny didn't stop on its own was because the gate was buried.


Problematic:

- Why did the shuttle loose power? Because of something with the planet's atmosphere or because it was an old piece of junk? The turbulence didn't seem that bad. So I think it is debatable. If it's junk, then who's to say it wouldn't have fallen out of the sky the next time they used it.

- The gate not wanting to connect with a couple of rocks in the way. Really? Even if these are like older tech gates. Is this supposed to be explained away because the whole gate spins? Which makes no sense either, imo, as I've always believed that the gate being dialed to should always just activate...not spin or light up one at a time the individual chevrons being dialed. Gate canon has never been consistent.

Or did I just interpret that wrong as they had some weird cutting going on there (I'm guessing for time.) with Destiny dialing in and then Eli and them walking through the gate seemingly implying that they had to dial Destiny after clearing out the gate more. :S

Lucky for them it wasn't encased in basalt because of the volcanic nature of the planet. And I guess the comments about will or won't the gate blow with some C-4 is supposed to again illustrate wrong people, wrong place as I'd think it would be fairly common knowledge that gates can withstand something as powerful as naquada enhanced bombs. You'd think Daniel would have mentioned something like this on those vids in Eli's case. Not sure why Scott would have thought it might go boom. Guess he was in the broom closet the day they covered that in training at the SGC. :P

- Killing Riley. I don't know. The manner in which they did just felt too forced. I thought they should have put more effort into trying to free him, especially once they got the gate operational and could get some more equipment and people in there to help. They could have even used the stones to get a doctor to come assess him. We keep being told that TJ is just a medic, well then use the stones to get someone more knowledgeable in there before declaring him a lost cause.

It just bothers me that they didn't try harder to free him and then see if he lived or died. Reminds me of real life events in the book Black Hawk Down. One of the shot down choppers had the nose crush in on one of the pilot's legs trapping his body. Both pilots had died on impact but the rescuing soldiers stayed there for hours, under fire, to recover his body from the wreckage. These guys went to great lengths for a body, yet on SGU they just gave up way too quick on Riley, imo. Would he have died anyway? Probably, but at least they could have tried.

I think killing Riley was more to facilitate Young's descent. Storywise I like the emotional hell they are putting Young through as long as I get some pay off. I don't find much to blame Rush for other than the convenient fact that he discovered some critical info about the planet only after the shuttle had already been launched, but who knows if that would have stopped them from going anyway considering how desperate the situation was getting.

Though what a horrible way to kill Riley...very personal for Young, more so than shooting him, but poor Riley. LF certainly played it well with holding his breath until it was over...even though it should take a fair amount of time to suffocate someone to death. I give them props for it being an emotional scene even though at the same time I was thinking 'wtf, that's how you're going to kill him' as I thought they should have still been trying to at least free him. I think the least (and most humane) thing they could have done was give him an over dose of that alien venom (unless they were out of it) rather than let him lay there and suffer since they had obviously given up on freeing him. I think they could have covered a couple of more things, like this, in dialogue than they did.


Anyway, I still thought the ep was good.

The Mighty 6 platoon
October 6th, 2010, 04:22 PM
I don't understand - Everett suffocated Riley? You can't suffocate someone that quickly in reality, unless I'm missing something. Why didn't Tamara or people attempt to remove him from the crashed shuttle once they had a gate open with some supplies from Destiny? Or at least administer pain blocking drugs for him. I don't get why he died as well, he wasn't bleeding since she said the pressure on him was stopping it. So he wasn't bleeding to death, was it internal injuries? I thought he just got his legs pinned or something? In which, realistically, you wouldn't die very fast from that.

While I’m no expert on how long it takes to suffocate someone to death, it certainly seemed like an uncomfortably long time to me. Further they to fit everything in the ep, some things have to be speeded up.

As for Riley he was bleeding badly, that’s why when TJ stuck her hands under the wreckage round Riley’s legs they were covered in blood. TJ simply believed that the pressure of the wreckage was stemming some of the blood flow, but Riley was still bleeding. He also appeared to be suffering from a spinal injury, since he couldn’t feel his legs. Riley was bleeding to death for the whole ep, the wreckage simply applied enough pressure to prevent him bleeding out in minutes. Trying to move him would have simply killed him quicker. And in case you haven’t noticed they aren’t exactly flush with medical supplies, so there aren’t any pain meds to administer.

prion
October 6th, 2010, 04:47 PM
Well, Riley was toast as soon as he got buried under rubble. The folks on Destiny do not have the capability (aka Goa’uld sarcaphogus or crash trauma team, etc.) to put him back together. I’m willing to get he would have died within 24 hours, if not sooner, as he would have gone into renal/multiple organ failure/fatal cardiac arrhythmias from crush syndrome (which occurred too much during the Haiti quakes). As for his lack of pain, patients suffering from crush syndrome can experience paresthesia — or numbness — that can actually mask their true level of pain.

As for Young suffocating Riley (eeuuuu,. sorry, but yes, it was a mercy killing and one that would not have been apparent unless TJ checked for pinpoint hemorrhages in eyes, oh dear, have watched too much CSI) it’s creepy it’s a much searched-for topic on the net, but it all depends on how long the person can hold t heir breath, which they are going to do as it’s automatic. First they’d have to go unconscious (up to 3 minutes) and death would occur within 6 minutes, but since we’re pressed for time on TV, it was condensed.

I thought it was a good episode, but very bleak, and why they kept Robert Knepper’s character out of the batch is beyond me. Isn’t he a bad apple??

PG15
October 6th, 2010, 04:50 PM
General Information: the SGU gate has a solid heavy base with a ramp. It has too or the gate would just roll away when dialed,

That...is a hilarious mental image.

SciFiRick
October 6th, 2010, 05:33 PM
That...is a hilarious mental image.

I agree. I can just see it rolling down the field.

PG15
October 6th, 2010, 05:34 PM
And SG teams chasing after it.

"Wait! Come back! We want to go through you!"

Petra
October 6th, 2010, 05:43 PM
And SG teams chasing after it.

"Wait! Come back! We want to go through you!"

:lol: Darn you all, now I can't take that scene (playing much like Benny Hill chases, with BH music! :eek: *headdesk*) out of my head and I can't stop laughing! And I shouldn't laugh when the episode was so sad...;)

starg4te
October 6th, 2010, 06:29 PM
OMG that would be hilarious to watch. Have the charcters dialing Destiny when the stargate starts to rool cause its dialing and have the wormhole engage then the characters having to jump trough the gate as it rolled. XD

blackluster
October 6th, 2010, 06:58 PM
What I suspect would happen would be that is would start rolling in one direction, but when the next chevron engages, it rolls back again. So a process of rolling back and forth with each consecutive chevron lock would go on until it actually came to rest where it started and the gate would engage. Very clever of the Ancients actually.

morbosfist
October 6th, 2010, 07:07 PM
Except the ground beneath it is uneven and you're forgetting about momentum. When the gate first dialled, it would start going like a wheel. When it stopped and changed direction, it would have to fight its own momentum, likely knocking itself over. Assuming it didn't manage this by the time it stopped dialling, it would just keep rolling from the final spin.

the fifth man
October 6th, 2010, 07:29 PM
Really good episode last night. While I was sad to see Riley go, they at least made his death very emotional. You could tell how affected everyone was by it, and even my wife and I had a hard time dealing with what Young had to do. I have a feeling he is very near a cracking point after all that has gone on.

Ian-S
October 6th, 2010, 08:08 PM
Riley was the most humane of the Destinites "How we treat prisoners in war says everything about us as a moral and civil society." Says it all really.

i knew as soon as they gave him that line he wasn't going to see the end of the episode.

Vapor
October 6th, 2010, 09:18 PM
Just to end the "gate was buried upright" vs "no it wasn't" argument... no it wasn't.

Sorry, but that doesn't really end the debate in your favor for me. When I look at those images, I see the very top of the gate poking out of the ground. Standing vertically, as it is still heavily buried by debris, which they spend a long time digging, and then blowing up.

I mean, they have these huge stand-things that keep them upright and spinning- I imagine it would take a lot to knock the gates over along with the whole mechanism that holds them there and spins them when activated. And it would most definitely be impossible to lift it all. I realize that's partly some people's point when they argue that it wasn't upright, but I bring it up because I don't believe they really meant to imply that they physically lifted the gate. All they did was clear debris and there it was standing.

SciFiRick
October 6th, 2010, 09:38 PM
Except the ground beneath it is uneven and you're forgetting about momentum. When the gate first dialled, it would start going like a wheel. When it stopped and changed direction, it would have to fight its own momentum, likely knocking itself over. Assuming it didn't manage this by the time it stopped dialling, it would just keep rolling from the final spin.

Ahh Morb, You taking the fun out of it...

SciFiRick
October 6th, 2010, 09:42 PM
I did look back and watch the Bridge scenes again and the people that said the bridge was rising when everything activated were RIGHT!! You see the whole bridge section from the top of the ship rising when the shot goes exterior during the event.

ns2
October 6th, 2010, 10:39 PM
I don't think that TJ telling Riley about the baby means that he's necessarily going there I think it is to start whispers on the ship due to the fact that Lisa was there listening

morbosfist
October 6th, 2010, 10:45 PM
Lisa doesn't seem like the gossipy type to me. She's always seemed supportive if anything.

ns2
October 6th, 2010, 10:52 PM
Did she seem like the type that would go around having sex to pass the time

Lahela
October 6th, 2010, 10:52 PM
Sorry, but that doesn't really end the debate in your favor for me. When I look at those images, I see the very top of the gate poking out of the ground. Standing vertically, as it is still heavily buried by debris, which they spend a long time digging, and then blowing up.

I mean, they have these huge stand-things that keep them upright and spinning- I imagine it would take a lot to knock the gates over along with the whole mechanism that holds them there and spins them when activated. And it would most definitely be impossible to lift it all. I realize that's partly some people's point when they argue that it wasn't upright, but I bring it up because I don't believe they really meant to imply that they physically lifted the gate. All they did was clear debris and there it was standing.

The gate is a circle. The top of a circle appears as a line. Greer was standing on an arc. Impossible, unless the circle is perpendicular to him.

As for how they cleared it, I would guess they did with a bit of C4 what Jack and Teal'c did with their hands in 100 Days. As for how they stood it up... a wizard did it. ;)

SciFiRick
October 6th, 2010, 11:00 PM
Anybody notice that Airmen Dunning just disappeared. He was last seen when Dunning and Scott was trying to lift the debris off of Riley's legs. That was the scene that showed Dunning and Park reacting to the blood that was all over TJ's hand and Dunning was never seen again. He was NEVER at the dig site or seen coming through the gate. It was James, Volker, Greer and Eli primarily at the gate and then Scott. Park was in the scene when Young entered the shuttled until the time TJ & Park left the shuttle and Park was standing outside with Scott, Greer and TJ. Scott, James & Eli were the first to come through the gate so it is assumed that Dunning came through with Volker.

Lahela
October 6th, 2010, 11:02 PM
Anybody notice that Airmen Dunning just disappeared. He was last seen when Dunning and Scott was trying to lift the debris off of Riley's legs. That was the scene that showed Dunning and Park reacting to the blood that was all over TJ's hand and Dunning was never seen again. He was NEVER at the dig site or seen coming through the gate. It was James, Volker, Greer and Eli primarily at the gate and then Scott. Park was in the scene when Young entered the shuttled until the time TJ & Park left the shuttle and Park was standing outside with Scott, Greer and TJ. Scott, James & Eli were the first to come through the gate so it is assumed that Dunning came through with Volker.

Yes! I was just coming back in here to mention that! One minute he's there, then*poof* he's gone. Mysterious... :S

SciFiRick
October 6th, 2010, 11:18 PM
The gate is a circle. The top of a circle appears as a line. Greer was standing on an arc. Impossible, unless the circle is perpendicular to him.

As for how they cleared it, I would guess they did with a bit of C4 what Jack and Teal'c did with their hands in 100 Days. As for how they stood it up... a wizard did it. ;)

So, You think the gate was not upright? Wow!! It seems that 1/5 of these discussions about the gate being upright or lying down will never end. May I suggest if anyone has downloaded the episode without the commercials to forward to the 25 minutes and 40 seconds thru 25 minutes and 50 seconds time (again this is without commercials) as I did and everyone can see for themselves the correct answer.

morbosfist
October 6th, 2010, 11:21 PM
The gate is a circle. The top of a circle appears as a line. Greer was standing on an arc. Impossible, unless the circle is perpendicular to him.

As for how they cleared it, I would guess they did with a bit of C4 what Jack and Teal'c did with their hands in 100 Days. As for how they stood it up... a wizard did it. ;)The top of a circle does not appear as a line in three dimensions unless you're standing right on top of it. It appears as a deep arc. That's what Greer is standing on. I can see how you would make that determination, but it's a trick of perception. Greer is standing on top of the gate, and the arc goes into the ground, not out in a wide arc from his foot. Also, look at your close-up image. Completely smooth. The chevrons/glyphs would be visible if it were flat. Furthermore, you can actually see the tip of the chevron on the close-up (right of Volker's knee). It isn't flat, but going under the ground.

Lahela
October 6th, 2010, 11:28 PM
*sigh* Whatever. We disagree, and it's such a trivial thing it's not worth banging on about.

Great ep though. :)

PG15
October 6th, 2010, 11:29 PM
The gate is a circle. The top of a circle appears as a line. Greer was standing on an arc. Impossible, unless the circle is perpendicular to him.

As for how they cleared it, I would guess they did with a bit of C4 what Jack and Teal'c did with their hands in 100 Days. As for how they stood it up... a wizard did it. ;)

I'm afraid that's just the unfortunate angle of your screencaps. ;)

Here's a better view:

http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy61/petergao15/SGUAftermathGateVertical1.png

There is clearly a vertical arc. Now, if you're still not convinced, then there's this:

http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy61/petergao15/SGUAftermathGateVertical2.png

The gate, still buried, with one of the chevrons on the side, not the top.

The gate was vertical while buried. End of story.

SciFiRick
October 6th, 2010, 11:30 PM
Sorry, for those who recorded the episode look for the scene where Greer, Volker, James and Eli had just cleared the section of the gate that exposed the facing and a chevron. Notice where Greer and Volker are standing, bending, lifting and tossing in relation to James and which direction the chevron is pointing just before Scott arrived and Eli asked how Riley was doing. Scott answers and leaves telling Eli to keep uncovering the gate. Judge for yourself. This is the best and I think clearrst evidence.

Lahela
October 6th, 2010, 11:34 PM
Just had a look further on and it does seem to be more upright than flat. I concede. :)

SciFiRick
October 6th, 2010, 11:35 PM
Way to go PG15.!!! That is the reference point that I just mentioned. This scene is at 25 minutes and 45 seconds into the episode (without commercials) I didn't know how to copy the frame and post. That is Greer and Volker in the background and James back end in the foreground.

blade7gr
October 7th, 2010, 12:31 AM
so i watched 3 times now and i have to say that they ancients are one crazy race of people
why they needed to built a ascending ship?

bobhope
October 7th, 2010, 02:43 AM
I've gone through most of the postings in this thread and maybe I'm missing the obvious, but no one seems to have asked about the Asian woman shown lying in the shuttle. I'm referring to the scene where TJ has just finished telling Riley about her baby and the camera pans around the inside of the shuttle and shows an Asian woman lying down with her head on what appears to be a pillow made of fatigues - the camera stays on her for a few seconds and then cuts to a new scene back on Destiny. Who is this woman???

It seemed to me that TJ and Riley thought they were alone on the shuttle.

garhkal
October 7th, 2010, 04:52 AM
That episode was absolutely heartbreaking.


poor riley!

Absolutly heart breaking.. no but still a big heart wrencher, yes.'


Riley was my favorite character and it kills me that he's dead.just like when Beckett died oh man in 1 season I've grown so attached to the characters. I love this show. Rip Riley

Becket's was not as tear jerkery as this one, but it was close to how grodin died.


I loved the Rush stuff in the episode, can't wait to see the events unfold next episode. Rush continues to grow into a even more fascinating character.

Part of me hopes he is not losing his mind as well (the halucinations of his wife), but part of me feels he might be cracking from the pressure of the past 3-4 weeks.



now the ship has no shuttles! they better get that "big" gun working 100%

With how rus has control of the bridge, that looks to be real close to being a good bet..


By this shows own rules there are thousands of alternate timelines where Riley is still alive. Death has never had any 'finality' meaning in Stargate. There are so many ways to bring someone back, clones, alternate reality people, alternate timeline people, ascension. It would be suprising if we never encountered Riley again.

While part of me feels like you, the rest hopes he stays dead so his death is not cheapened.


I'll admit it, I was expecting this ep to be the usual false danger and character shield tripe that SGA got us into. Truly a great end for Riley, and I absolutely LOVED how they used his "It's not being here, it's not being there" monologue from his Kinosode as a send off. Truly amazing.

While i agree on the false danger, we have already seen some named guys in this series die (the senator in air, what's his name in the water, spencer).. so there is not as much of a character shield in this season. And i LOVED the homage they paid with the kinosode.. reminded me of letters from pegasus.



Good to see Gloria and Franklin again, and even better that Rush questions his sanity. I'll admit, I really hope that Rush seeing the two of them is linked to his chair experience, if they're not going to let Rush slowly lose his mind.

And... in (almost) before anyone says Franklin ascended. Anyone who wants to claim he did better back it up.

I am actually hoping BOTH franklin and gloria being there were NOT halucinations, but the ships way to gauge rush and communicate with him. Gloria to gauge his reactions and intent, Franklin to give assistance how ever little..



Finally, set up for the next episode. Mysterious object coming, and Rush has an idea of what it is obviously.

From the previews we know it to be a seeder ship..


So... anyone else wondering when Rush found the bridge? He knew exactly where to go once he realized he'd cracked the master code, then input it from there.

Somebody's been doing some exploring...

Either that, or it was downloaded into his brain when he was in the chair, which i think is more likely



/i do have to say that i got kind of nostalgic at the sight of a buried stargate

And more importantly.. IT WAS SPINNING:D:D:D


I really love this show. But I have issue with a couple of storyline rushes(pardon the pun) in 'Aftermath'.
1. Um... Talford looked like he was gonna be a mole and then he wasn't. Could have been awesome.

That kind of flew out the window when he was part of the group that had to restrain Young. Heck he even ordered young to stand down... Kind of hard to see that from someone on your side.


3. I'm totally cool with Rush and Young going insane but not sure how I feel about both at the same time.

Whats to say either are breaking. BUT with the stran both have been under, it is not surprising either are cracking..


4. Speaking of Rush and Young... what happened to the almost humanizing of Rush and the close encounter of composer for Young? Soooo close. And my issue with that is I personally love how close the SG teams become. They would die for eachother. No other show pulled that off the way the Stargate shows have. It was they're secret ingredient.

It is still there as evident by Rush's demeanor at having to make the call to kill Scott etc near the end of last ep, and in his beratment of himself in this ep.


oh i've been meaning to ask, what do we think so far? was franklin in Rush's head or was that actually Franklin and Rush couldn't tell the difference? Rush did say that Franklin was much more helpful in technical matters.
[/quote]

I think it was the ship materializing him to help rush out.


The way Young handled Riley's situation I oddly didn't find to be cold or indicative of mental issues. He was doing the man a favor and respecting his final wises. If anything it made me feel a tad bit better about the Colonel.

As i mentioned in the other thread on this subject, i know 2 fellow mil people who had to make similar choices... as heart wrenching they may be, it is not about you, but the one who is asking to die... So in one sense i am glad he honored riley's request, and in the other i am saddened he had to do it.



The character interaction didn't seem pointless or tacked on and Rush making a bee-line for the bridge (apparently atop the "pyramid" thing) certainly makes one wonder just how much he really does know

Honestly i think the info on it's location was downloaded into his mind when he sat in the chair.. but he had no reason to go there until he cracked the code...


I know some may think Rush crazy, and it's possible he is; the simple fact of the matter is, we don't know if he's talking to himself, or if somehow there are other forces at play. As he theorized, it could be the ship itself manifesting something, or alien presences (either Faith aliens or Franklin being ascended, etc.)

Ohh.. i didn't even think about the possibility of it being the faith aliens helping him out. BUT why would they? As to an ascended Franklin, from what we have seen they don't out right give info like he did without reprocussions. NOW i know we are far away, but who's to say the rules still don't apply?


but I understand his reasoning. He was quite correct that Young is losing it, and that it was Young's fault the LA took over. By keeping the bridge secret, if the LA take over again (or Young screws up again), Rush can maintain control of the ship from his secret bridge. From that point of view, it makes logical sense.

Yup. His not telling the others is VERY logical for him. But also selfish in that he could have told some of his fellow scientists he trusts (volkar, or


I do understand the problem of keeping prisoners(or even any additional people), and it could be argued the LA brought this on themselves. But I didn't expect them to toss all the LA people out the gate (well, except for the two or three they kept). And obviously, the LA people aren't telling everything they know about Destiny. They have to know where it's headed or what it was built for in order to risk a death sentence to get there. Those door openers they used last season had to come from somewhere Destiny-related in order to work on the doors.

I believe the red head (ginn) said much about it in her 'debreifing' with wray.. BU most of what she said was what they Thought.. not what they know.. So who's to say they know anything for certain.


Seems like the seeder ship is up next, and without a shuttle, I wonder how they will get over there to check it out, but I assume they will get access to another shuttle to replace the one they lost. Of course, if what I read is to be believed, Caine and the others will end up back on Destiny, so maybe their shuttle will be returned as well.

From what we have seen, it docks With the seeder ship...


I gotta say this episode was awesome except for the whole Riley Dying Part. My jaw was on the floor. I liked Riley. Except he was very accident prone. Seems like Telford dying and then being broken free of the brainwashing as well as being shot and living hasn't humbled the guy.

In that respet i think he was a cross between walter and siler.. loved by many, but accident prone.


agreed! great episode!

2) It was the phattest thing ever seeing the bridge actually rise up out of the top of the pyramid like a bunker(no wonder we could never find it in screenies!)


It was a very big surprise seeing it rise up.. And more so when they showed that it has 2 doors.. one seemed more of a secret wall rather than an actual door though.

Cont next post.. page 5 onward!!!

garhkal
October 7th, 2010, 05:47 AM
If Riley can die then no one is safe. Well none of the secondary characters are safe anyway, the main cast is still completely safe as always.

ut who do we determine as a 'primary character'? Was grodin one in SGA? Beckett? Wier?? All 3 died off. Same with ford in the end.



And I'm back to having no sympathy for Rush. In my mind, he's directly responsible for Riley's death, because had he simply told the truth from the beginning, that would not have happened; they also wouldn't have lost the only remaining shuttle ... and he's got the nerve to be pointing fingers at Young and saying he's not fit to command anything. Hello - pot calling kettle black?

With the fact he was kicking himself (not literally) when speaking to 'gloria' on the bridge near the end, about his failures, i have not lost all sympathy for him..



The episode also brought out the worst of Rush and Young. Rush proved one more time that 1) he's not as smart as he think he is;

Ghost franklin said it best. "I don't care how smart you are, this is too much for any one man to handle..." And though it did seem he was greedly hoggig the bridge, he has to remember. not to long ago Young was willing to let the ship fall to enemies. SOME of those are still on the ship. So he is imo doing the right thing NOT letting that he has this yet out.. Now if he keeps it even wen he finds the rest of the LA gone and young is back to his old self, THEN i will agree he has lost all hope.



There seemed to be a gate screw-up in the ep too. Destiny dials the planet and Eli and Scott come through the gate onto Destiny. Two-way wormholes? Lol, that's new in Stargate. I'm also worried about the LA situation. The writers got rid of a bunch of them in this episode. Soon enough, there won't be anyone left and a major cop-out will unfold.

Nope. Eli was stoked about seeing the addy for Destinny pop up and so dialed it in. From what little we have seen i think the remotes are quicker at dialing/getting a lock than the ship is going outbound..




Liked: finally seeing Destiny's bridge, Rush's wife, Franklin, Ginn, that James is still alive.

5/10

I just about jumped out of my seat when the bridge rose up.. Man was that awesome.



The manifestation of Gloria & Franklin may just be a result of Rush being in the chair and he is still wirelessly linked or Rush who is very much deprived of sleep and rest may be creating his own manifestations. This reminds me of McKay manifesting Sam Carter when the jumper sank to the bottom of the ocean. That was his subconscious rationalizing and working through the problem. Of course, McKay was not deprived of sleep but felt he was going to die. Either way, the case could be made that his subconscious created Gloria & Franklin more than it being tied to the chair.


I agree it could be his lack of sleep/cracking under the pressure, but i still hold out hope for the chair having something to do with it. Remember It was gloria in the chair/vision who basically got him to breakdown/cry and admit he was messing up, and to refocus. So it is logical to me the ship would continue to use her to keep rush on the 'straight and narrow'.



Great special effects with the shuttle scenes. We never find out why the shuttle lost power after it cleared the turbulence but maybe it was intended to be a mystery and assumed that the turbulence had a direct effect on the failure.

Maybe something in the atmosphere shorts out electronics..



I have been trying to determine why Young was holding his breath as he agreed to Riley's request.

One of my command's HM2s answered this for me (he also watched it).. apparently some people just hold breath sympathetically when they choke others.. Kinda like sympathetic pukers.




Overall, it was a good episode. Though I hope they don't plan to drag out the mystery of the people in Rush's head for much longer. I was already starting to grow impatient with the whole concept by the time it was over. I'm not sure I'd be pleased with six more weeks of this.

I actually had no probllem with them.. Just like with carter in grace, or mccay in grace under pressure.


Interview with Haig Sutherland
'Stargate Universe' exclusive: Haig Sutherland and the life of Riley ('http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/show-patrol/2010/10/stargate-universe-exclusive-haig-sutherland-and-the-life-of-riley.html)

.

Link no work.


I'm sorry guys, I give this a thumbs down. And not because Riley is dead (why didn't they just sever his lower torso?),

What to say the attempt at doing so did not kill him;. so we have wasted more resources... We don;t know if all our medicine (such as the alien bug knock out stuff) was gone from all the past 2 eps worth of doctoring. We also don't know if they even had anything to amputate his legs with (though it would have had to be at the hips).. And even if remotely, he survived.. how would he have been a use? They have no walker. No wheel chairs... And all the consoles are higher than the "Kinosled' they made for the ice planet..


And actually there WAS Chloe, you see her comforting Scott right at the end

Strange.. sine it is usually scott comforting her!


You're fine for not liking Rush, but you're going to have to find better reasons. For one, it's not clear Gloria is his conscience. The very fact that Franklin showed up, shows that something more is going on.

Also, it wasn't entirely Rush's fault for what happened to Riley. Yes, he stopped the ship so that they could take a shuttle to the planet, but Young gave the orders to, and they needed supplies. It's all well and good to say it was a bad choice after the fact, but you didn't know early on (unless you kept in touch with spoilers). Faced with dwindling supplies and a planet that has vegetation, you'd make the same call. I'd be willing to bet that if Rush was truthful and open about finding the bridge and the planet, Young would have ordered a stop and shuttle trip.

Big +1 there K.. Even if he told, there is nothign saying things would have not worked out the way they did. BUT i do fault him for not at least letting others into that he has the bridge, so they could have calld the shuttle back until they had scoured all the data the ship had on the planet.


And by the way, even if he's seeing things, it's clearly explained by his lack of sleep and his nightmares over being tortured (yeah, see how well YOU hold up after being tortured). Young, on the other hand, has no such excuses.

That is a good point, that he has the torture as an excuse.. BUT is it me, or was it that dream of his torture(Nightmare) that woke him when he first went to find the bridge. I wonder if the 2 might be linked..


What I liked best about this episode was the questioned asked by Franklin/Rush's wife entityt.

Which makes me wonder.. if that WAS the ship manifesting his wife/franklin.. why was it questioning him, unless to gauge whether he was worthy of having the master codes...


Hell, I even cried and I *never* cry watching Stargate.

For me Heroes Pt 2 and Meridian, along with Forever in a day are the only ones so far which have brought me close to tears (first time i watched FiaD and meridian i did)...


At first I thought he'd die naturally and then when he begged Young to help him (and I had a weird flashback to Abyss and Jack asking Daniel to do the same) I fully expected Young to give him his loaded gun and leave, letting him end his life by his own hand.

Part of me thought young was going to do that but i did thik i saw him reach for his gun and Riley shake his head.. then he placed his hands underhis back... And i agree, great flash back to Abyss...


I certainly didn't expect strangling. I've seen some critique of Young because of that, but I think he did it this way because he'd promised Riley he wouldn't die alone and true to his word he stayed with him to the very end. Again, wow. It was a very emotional scene.

You have at least got to give Young props for keeping his word...


I also liked how at the end everybody was shown grieving him. Interesting, that Greer was the one making toast.

Not to me. Greer seems to be the one most in line to want to protect everyone they have...


Young continues to slip and I can't help but wonder when will he hit the bottom. As of now he still has some restraint left, as evidenced by not killing LA guy.

I am not sure if that showed he had restraint, or whether he heard Telfords order to back off...



I want to see more of Ginn. The snippet of info about possible attack on Earth was interesting.

It will be interesting to see if they touch on it again, or whether it might be a set up for the new (third) SG1 movie..


Probably because we only saw the reaction of Janet's friends and colleagues and Bregman and the film guys; we only saw Janet get hit with the staff blast, and then all those reactions. With Riley, we had to watch while he was dying, and with TJ there talking to him, and then seeing Young with him and what Young did. Big difference in how those two deaths were played out.

Good point. I think his death is closer to how Daniel died in Meridian, and the linking to oneil being the one to make the call to let him go..


I don't understand - Everett suffocated Riley? You can't suffocate someone that quickly in reality, unless I'm missing something. Why didn't Tamara or people attempt to remove him from the crashed shuttle once they had a gate open with some supplies from Destiny? Or at least administer pain blocking drugs for him. I don't get why he died as well, he wasn't bleeding since she said the pressure on him was stopping it. So he wasn't bleeding to death, was it internal injuries? I thought he just got his legs pinned or something? In which, realistically, you wouldn't die very fast from that. Another thing - why does Young hold his breath as he's 'suffocating' Riley? Was Park lying in the shuttle because she wanted to be with Riley? If so, why was she hiding away from everyone else? Why didn't she help unbury the stargate?

Ok. 1) with how little time they had before the destiny jumped again i do not see them having the time to get a crew there to cut him out.
2) Where would they hav gotten the tools.. yes they had that plasma cutter in Water, but did they bring it back?
3) With all the medicing going on in Intervention (and in the ep before) who is to say they still have any of the pain killers left...
4) on the suffocation.. As i mentioned above, according to a HM (hospital corpsman) some people have sympathetic breathing when choking others out (mostly some seals)... just like there are many sympathetic pukers.

Done for now....

Lahela
October 7th, 2010, 06:04 AM
From the previews we know it to be a seeder ship..


And those of us who actively avoid previews because we don't want to be spoiled know now too :mckay:

It says at the top of this forum

#202. Talk about this episode here! Please keep discussion to this episode ONLY, and no spoilers beyond it.

Please???!!!

starbystar
October 7th, 2010, 07:20 AM
Hey all - I'm new to the Forum, so be gentle!

I've been lurking for a while, and I had a general question about Aftermath: all the crew knows that Young is the father of TJ's baby, right? I mean, I know Chole and Scott know for sure, but how about the others? Clearly that would affect how the rest of them are judging Young and his developing instability.

Kaiphantom
October 7th, 2010, 08:50 AM
Y'know, except for having the mother of his unborn child shot, and as far as he knows his unborn daughter is dead. It may or may not be alive on the Faith planet, but that's a whole other discussion. I don't think you can take the emotional stress he's going through, lightly. I believe anyone who has lost a child or a loved one would agree to this.

Mostly irrelevant, considering Young was breaking down before that happened.


But wasn't the problem the turbulence in the atmosphere? Rush and only Rush knew about it and he made the decision (despite Franklin's advice) to let the shuttle keep going instead of making them turn around, and that's what caused the crash.

If given all the info - there's a planet with vegetation, but its atmosphere was very turbulent - I think Young or anyone else may have made a different decision. May.

It's open for debate, but the shuttle passed through the turbulence and was flying for awhile afterward, before it suddenly cut out. Perhaps the turbulence had an effect, or maybe it was just an unlucky malfunction; we don't know. And I still believe that, even with the knowledge, Young would have still made the call to send the shuttle; they were low on supplies so it was worth the risk. Like I said, it's easy to call things out after the fact, but put yourself in the shoes of one of them before that.

Hell, let's say Rush made the shuttle turn back and the ship went on and they didn't find supplies and people started dying from starvation. You'd probably be ragging on him for making the ship turn around. "What the hell did Rush do? Why didn't he at least them them try to get supplies from that planet when he KNEW they were starving? Damn Rush, all his fault for wanting to keep the shuttle like he wanted to keep the one from Faith."


Ohh.. i didn't even think about the possibility of it being the faith aliens helping him out. BUT why would they? As to an ascended Franklin, from what we have seen they don't out right give info like he did without reprocussions. NOW i know we are far away, but who's to say the rules still don't apply?

Even if the rules applied, Franklin wasn't telling Rush anything he didn't already know, or could easily find out. What clues me more into the fact that Franklin may have been an ascended (or somehow part of the ship) is that he didn't appear again, despite Rush wanting him to. Hallucinations come from within, either things we want to see, or things are subconscious wants us to see. Gloria can be explained by the subconscious, but Franklin was clearly a surprise to him.


Yup. His not telling the others is VERY logical for him. But also selfish in that he could have told some of his fellow scientists he trusts (volkar, or

The more he tells, the greater the chance someone else will find out about it. There's an old question: "How many people can you tell a secret to?" The answer? None. As soon as you tell someone else, it's no longer secret.


I believe the red head (ginn) said much about it in her 'debreifing' with wray.. BU most of what she said was what they Thought.. not what they know.. So who's to say they know anything for certain.

The thing is, the legend and the reality don't match up. The LA would know the reality via Telford, thus they should have realized that gating to the ship is pointless. Simply sit back and gain intel and if something comes up, you can use your secret naquadria base to gate in. There has to be more information the LA has, as to why they decided to risk gating in and taking control.


Big +1 there K.. Even if he told, there is nothign saying things would have not worked out the way they did. BUT i do fault him for not at least letting others into that he has the bridge, so they could have calld the shuttle back until they had scoured all the data the ship had on the planet.

Yeah, but they had limited time; 7 hours before the ship jumped, and 1 hour travel time. That left 4-5 hours at most to find supplies on the planet, load them up, and come back.

boo1234
October 7th, 2010, 09:35 AM
I see I'm in the minority here, but I did not like this episode! Nothing really happened outside of Rush gaining control of destiny. Instead the other 40 minutes of the episode were devoted to Riley dying needlessly.

And Eli is getting stranded again. Is this the new "daniel dies" running joke? lol

Petra
October 7th, 2010, 09:56 AM
ut who do we determine as a 'primary character'? Was grodin one in SGA? Beckett? Wier?? All 3 died off. Same with ford in the end.

Primary characters are those who appear in opening credits. There, the easiest explanation ;)


For me Heroes Pt 2 and Meridian, along with Forever in a day are the only ones so far which have brought me close to tears (first time i watched FiaD and meridian i did)...

The very first time I watched Meridian it made me tear up, I admit, but I didn't cry. I wasn't particularly affected by Heroes and FIAD (I found Abyss to be much sadder tbh). As I said "Aftermath" got the doubtful privilage of becoming the first Stargate episode ever that made me cry like a baby. :S


Not to me. Greer seems to be the one most in line to want to protect everyone they have...

That he does, but what I meant was that usually the toast is made either by commander/boss or the closest friend, and I never noticed Greer and Riley being particularly close. I think Eli or other civilian scientists would have been more obvious choice.


I am not sure if that showed he had restraint, or whether he heard Telfords order to back off...

Nope, he totally showed restraint. He stopped choking the guy and even took his hands off him before Telford even noticed what was going on. Watch the scene again and you'll see. Besides, Telford didn't order him to "back off", he just shouted once "Everett!". And even if he did, I have a hard time seeing Young complying given that they are of equal rank and Young's in command, not Telford. Why would he follow his orders then?


It will be interesting to see if they touch on it again, or whether it might be a set up for the new (third) SG1 movie..

I know people say that it's easy to rewrite script, but IIRC the third movie was suppose to take place right after EATG and it was to do with the secret mission one of the Earth ships (don't remember which one, sorry) was on at the time. Rewriting script to suit SGU season 2 timeline would leave another plothole in EATG.

Sp!der
October 7th, 2010, 10:31 AM
oh my.... Riley was one of my favourite characters...damn.

LtColCarter
October 7th, 2010, 10:34 AM
oh my.... Riley was one of my favourite characters...damn.

I know its not quite the same...but I really could feel for Young when he did what he did. On September 27th I had to make a decision to put my 15 year-old dog down. I know some of you are going to get pissy and say a dog isn't the same as a human, but I value all life...especially a dog who has been more loyal than any human could dream of being. Anyway, it was a very difficult decision to make. I couldn't imagine having to make that decision for another person.

xxxevilgrinxxx
October 7th, 2010, 10:44 AM
I know its not quite the same...but I really could feel for Young when he did what he did. On September 27th I had to make a decision to put my 15 year-old dog down. I know some of you are going to get pissy and say a dog isn't the same as a human, but I value all life...especially a dog who has been more loyal than any human could dream of being. Anyway, it was a very difficult decision to make. I couldn't imagine having to make that decision for another person.I'm sorry to hear that, LTCarter, and yes, that has to be one of the harder decisions to ever have to make.

That Young, who already has this pain of losing people, in addition to the massive loss he's just suffered, I can't imagine what that will do to him :(

LtColCarter
October 7th, 2010, 10:49 AM
I'm sorry to hear that, LTCarter, and yes, that has to be one of the harder decisions to ever have to make.

That Young, who already has this pain of losing people, in addition to the massive loss he's just suffered, I can't imagine what that will do to him :(

I know...I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if there was some sort of major breakdown coming.

Callie
October 7th, 2010, 11:12 AM
I've gone through most of the postings in this thread and maybe I'm missing the obvious, but no one seems to have asked about the Asian woman shown lying in the shuttle. I'm referring to the scene where TJ has just finished telling Riley about her baby and the camera pans around the inside of the shuttle and shows an Asian woman lying down with her head on what appears to be a pillow made of fatigues - the camera stays on her for a few seconds and then cuts to a new scene back on Destiny. Who is this woman???

Yeah, that would be Lisa Park.

kc5txr
October 7th, 2010, 12:09 PM
have you all ever thought that maybe the ancient's didn't plan on returning to destiny because maybe they are already there! and maybe rush was not crazy. but being tested!

xxxevilgrinxxx
October 7th, 2010, 12:30 PM
have you all ever thought that maybe the ancient's didn't plan on returning to destiny because maybe they are already there! and maybe rush was not crazy. but being tested!

I do think that Rush is being tested (and not doing too well), but no, I don;t think the ancients are there already.

Petra
October 7th, 2010, 12:31 PM
have you all ever thought that maybe the ancient's didn't plan on returning to destiny because maybe they are already there! and maybe rush was not crazy. but being tested!

NO. Despite my love for the show, if something like that were to happen I'd stop watching immediately. NO MORE ANCIENTS!!!

Anyway, I've just stumbled upon this Intervention & Aftermath review (http://ziparumpazoo.livejournal.com/65378.html) which I loved, so I thought I'd share. :)

SciFiRick
October 7th, 2010, 12:43 PM
I've gone through most of the postings in this thread and maybe I'm missing the obvious, but no one seems to have asked about the Asian woman shown lying in the shuttle. I'm referring to the scene where TJ has just finished telling Riley about her baby and the camera pans around the inside of the shuttle and shows an Asian woman lying down with her head on what appears to be a pillow made of fatigues - the camera stays on her for a few seconds and then cuts to a new scene back on Destiny. Who is this woman???

It seemed to me that TJ and Riley thought they were alone on the shuttle.

Dr Lisa Park. It just doesn't look like her in that particular scene. Yes, it would appear that TJ & Riley were unaware of her presence. That should be something that will come into play later on.

SciFiRick
October 7th, 2010, 12:54 PM
Ok. 1) with how little time they had before the destiny jumped again i do not see them having the time to get a crew there to cut him out.
2) Where would they hav gotten the tools.. yes they had that plasma cutter in Water, but did they bring it back?
3) With all the medicing going on in Intervention (and in the ep before) who is to say they still have any of the pain killers left...
4) on the suffocation.. As i mentioned above, according to a HM (hospital corpsman) some people have sympathetic breathing when choking others out (mostly some seals)... just like there are many sympathetic pukers.

Done for now....

FYI, A plasma cutter can also be used as a welder. You see it being used when Brody sealed the Hydroponic doors. I use these in my world.

SciFiRick
October 7th, 2010, 01:00 PM
Hey all - I'm new to the Forum, so be gentle!

I've been lurking for a while, and I had a general question about Aftermath: all the crew knows that Young is the father of TJ's baby, right? I mean, I know Chole and Scott know for sure, but how about the others? Clearly that would affect how the rest of them are judging Young and his developing instability.

Yeah, Great Question. I think you would assume that everyone would ask her about the father. I am pretty sure everyone knew.

PG15
October 7th, 2010, 01:02 PM
It's open for debate, but the shuttle passed through the turbulence and was flying for awhile afterward, before it suddenly cut out. Perhaps the turbulence had an effect, or maybe it was just an unlucky malfunction; we don't know. And I still believe that, even with the knowledge, Young would have still made the call to send the shuttle; they were low on supplies so it was worth the risk. Like I said, it's easy to call things out after the fact, but put yourself in the shoes of one of them before that.

Hell, let's say Rush made the shuttle turn back and the ship went on and they didn't find supplies and people started dying from starvation. You'd probably be ragging on him for making the ship turn around. "What the hell did Rush do? Why didn't he at least them them try to get supplies from that planet when he KNEW they were starving? Damn Rush, all his fault for wanting to keep the shuttle like he wanted to keep the one from Faith."

Except I don't hate Rush and question everything he does like you apparently think I do. :p

But you're right, it's open for debate. That's why I emphasized "may". On my part I think there's a higher chance of Young reconsidering his decision since he's known to be extra protective of his people (to the point of making stupid decisions, i.e. Incursion), but there's an argument to be made there of Young being too cautious - obviously, to get supplies, sometimes risks need to be taken. It's definitely hard to argue either way, IMHO.

Callie
October 7th, 2010, 02:00 PM
Brilliant moment: Greer attracting the attention of Eli and Volker by saying, "Hey, science guys ..."

SciFiRick
October 7th, 2010, 02:14 PM
Brilliant moment: Greer attracting the attention of Eli and Volker by saying, "Hey, science guys ..."

I loved that part!!!! Great Catch

jelgate
October 7th, 2010, 03:55 PM
I know its not quite the same...but I really could feel for Young when he did what he did. On September 27th I had to make a decision to put my 15 year-old dog down. I know some of you are going to get pissy and say a dog isn't the same as a human, but I value all life...especially a dog who has been more loyal than any human could dream of being. Anyway, it was a very difficult decision to make. I couldn't imagine having to make that decision for another person.

I think we can all relate to the situation. Its not all that different when you have to give the word "to pull the plug" for a coma patient. Its all about respecting what a terminally ill person wants. Thats one of the cores of medical ethics

Shan Bruce Lee
October 7th, 2010, 04:22 PM
Loved the little balances in this ep. Young nearly choking an LA guy through nutjob criminality, then suffocating Riley through compassion. That was a great juxtaposition. Ginn talking about the gate address leading to god-like powers, then Rush insanely playing god. That was frightening.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I want Varro in charge of the ship - he's the most level-headed person there :p

Nice catch.


I don't understand - Everett suffocated Riley? You can't suffocate someone that quickly in reality, unless I'm missing something. Why didn't Tamara or people attempt to remove him from the crashed shuttle once they had a gate open with some supplies from Destiny? Or at least administer pain blocking drugs for him. I don't get why he died as well, he wasn't bleeding since she said the pressure on him was stopping it. So he wasn't bleeding to death, was it internal injuries? I thought he just got his legs pinned or something? In which, realistically, you wouldn't die very fast from that. Another thing - why does Young hold his breath as he's 'suffocating' Riley? Was Park lying in the shuttle because she wanted to be with Riley? If so, why was she hiding away from everyone else? Why didn't she help unbury the stargate?

They couldn't move him because the pressure on his leg was the only thing stopping him from bleeding out.


Did she seem like the type that would go around having sex to pass the time

Aside from the flaws, your logic is flawless.

nx01a
October 7th, 2010, 04:33 PM
The Good:
>Eli mentioning how naquadah tends to enhance explosions.
>Nice CGI crash!
>Young killing Riley.
>Young bashing that Lucian Alliance guy's head in.
>The bridge!
>Rush keeping secrets again. He was humanized during the last half of last season, now he's back to his old tricks.
>Rush has some guests in his head. From the conscience wife to the science scientist, it's getting crowded in there. I wonder if Daniel will appear as another aspect of his personality.
>Oooh! Mysterious object! Oooh! Cliffhanger! Oooh! I'd love it if every episode flowed right into the next one.
>Less than 5 seconds of Chloe. :) Unless she's turning blue [take that however you will], I'm not interested.
>The obviously Evil Lucian Alliance Guy is one of those 'chosen' by the IOA to survive. This could be very interesting. Torture him for info, anyone?
>Stranding the other LA intruders. Sensible. There's no way they'd assimilate with the rest of the crew, and they'd be more trouble than they're worth.
>The direction, esp. when TJ and Riley are discussing faith. Cutting to a bright light/sun while talking about God, and having that sun set to mirror Riley's doomed state... Beautiful. AND the quick zoom in on Young taking his bottle of ? with him while discussing with Wray what to do with the LA prisoners... Nice.
>Park knows about TJ and her baby delusion.

The Bad:
>The crew aren't wearing the cool LA leather outfits. :(
>THAT was the LA's reason for investing so much manpower and resources?! They were willing to die for the usual legend about gaining the power of the gods?! Weir and her team stepped pretty much into the unknown on a possible mission of no return, but I can't believe that the recon the LA had about the state of Destiny would reinforce their belief that it somehow held the key to the power of the gods. Idiots. With all the left over Ancient tech in the Milky Way and a planet of naquadria, you'd think they'd direct their efforts closer to home.
>So... Exactly what is Telford's status now? He's in the hold with the others, so I assume the ploy of him still being mind controlled continues. Sure, the Earth crew could just be taking him out of the hold pretty regularly to try and debrief him... but that would only help increase the suspicion of the remaining LA about where his loyalties lie. Especially Evil Lucian Alliance Guy.
>Where did Young get those glasses? Have we seen them before?

The Ugly:
>Nothing was particularly ugly about this episode. :)

The Verdict:
>SGU continues to correct the mistakes of early season 1. Aftermath was an enjoyable yet sad episode that questioned morality on several issues amidst cool sci-fi action and concepts. While I may be setting myself up for a fall, I'm hoping SGU continues in this vein.

Eternal Density
October 7th, 2010, 05:06 PM
Riley could come back to the show anytime, though, with a little help from the Obelisk Builders, as one of Baltar's Rush's visions, etc.Young is headed off the deep end, so I'd expect him to have visions of Riley :P

nx01a
October 7th, 2010, 05:15 PM
Both Young and Rush are losing it. If they start appearing in each other's delusions, I'll clap.

Eternal Density
October 7th, 2010, 05:30 PM
Both Young and Rush are losing it. If they start appearing in each other's delusions, I'll clap.Reminds me of McKay and Weir being in each other's virtual worlds...
But yeah, I'd cheer.

fluxcapacitor
October 7th, 2010, 06:11 PM
I rewatched it again and really think young killing riley may possibly be one of the more heart-wrenching stargate moments ever. He did the appropriate thing, it's what riley wanted, he had no real hope of surviving, but still just an incredibly tough thing to do emotionally.

It actually brought me back to a moment a few years ago when my mom was in the ICU (she's okay now luckily) but my brother and I made the mistake of coming to see her right as they pulled the plug on some guy in a car accident as his family stood around. The family had made the decision, but still it was a single person (the nurse) who actually had to shut the machines down. I'm not a nurse or doctor but it has to be a very tough thing to do emotionally, even if it's the right thing to do.

spinny magee
October 7th, 2010, 10:54 PM
Usually I would come up with a lame re-write of the script for this, but Riley's death is still unbelievable and sad to me, and I won't for this episode.

RIP Sgt Riley

spinny magee
October 7th, 2010, 10:56 PM
BTW

Whilst reading this thread the ad below said "Save Young"

Worth pointing out........

Vapor
October 7th, 2010, 11:57 PM
I actually had no probllem with them.. Just like with carter in grace, or mccay in grace under pressure.

I actually loved "Grace Under Pressure."

It's not really the characters themselves that bother me- just the fact that it's a concept that hasn't been explained yet. I'm perfectly content to wait for an explanation- I'm just not that enthused by the mystery of it. With episodes like "Grace Under Pressure," that wasn't even really important, whereas this scenario sets itself up for an eventual breakdown of information about "what's really going on." And I have no idea if that moment comes next week, or next year.

I guess I'd rather just move on.

Corona
October 8th, 2010, 01:59 AM
Let me shift off Riley for a second and say this.

I need Eli to grow a set and quit the juvenile snivelling! I don't believe a person could experience (season one) and still be so lame emotionally. OMG, We're gonna die! Give me a break! I find it less believable given his IQ.

Good job besides that one thing. I'm enjoying the trip!

garhkal
October 8th, 2010, 05:08 AM
Hey all - I'm new to the Forum, so be gentle!

I've been lurking for a while, and I had a general question about Aftermath: all the crew knows that Young is the father of TJ's baby, right? I mean, I know Chole and Scott know for sure, but how about the others? Clearly that would affect how the rest of them are judging Young and his developing instability.

Since she did have the baby shower, i would say it is a good bet they do.


Yeah, but they had limited time; 7 hours before the ship jumped, and 1 hour travel time. That left 4-5 hours at most to find supplies on the planet, load them up, and come back.

He could have turned off autopilot which would have stopped that.

Krandor
October 8th, 2010, 06:32 AM
He could have turned off autopilot which would have stopped that.

Rush mentioned in the episode that he did not have control of how long Destiny stayed in one place. He has not figured out how to disable the timer yet.

Sapphire_Jade
October 8th, 2010, 06:39 AM
Rush mentioned in the episode that he did not have control of how long Destiny stayed in one place. He has not figured out how to disable the timer yet.

yes he can disable the timer by taking Destiny off of autopilot... he said that he turned the autopilot back on so the timer would come on when they jump out of FTL.. he doesn't know how to manually control the ship, but keep the timer on.. so he is keeping Destiny on autopilot.

hallmjo
October 8th, 2010, 08:01 AM
I thought this episode was a little slow and a little depressing, but I'm excited about things to come. Can't believe Riley died like that. :(

MattSilver 3k
October 8th, 2010, 10:22 AM
Well, this just proves it to me: Rob Cooper is just awesome. Along with Time, Justice and Lost, Aftermath will go down as one of my favourites in the SGU run. But, if I had to make one complaint about it, it would be this: they crammed too much in. I would've much preferred for the Lucian Alliance to actually get their own episode with Rush in the background figuring out clues, followed by Rush finding the bridge and the whole Riley thing in the next episode. You see, with a title like Aftermath, I was expecting an actual aftermath, a whole episode's worth, of the Lucian Alliance Incursion. Instead, it was like an Afterthought.

Maybe I'll be proved wrong in the coming weeks, but I think we could've benefited from more of an issue being made of the Lucian Alliance - why is Varro sane, why did Ginn finally step up and kill Dannic, what's up with Simeon, where does Telford stand with both sides - and of Rush actually, you know, maybe working on the mastercode just a bit (Or at least hunting down the bridge or something). With the first, we kinda lack a more fleshed resolution I thought SGU's style of storytelling was going to take, and with the second, we get Rush randomly figuring out the mastercode between episodes, finding the bridge and then promptly screwing stuff up.

But I digress. Maybe it's the writers deciding to buckle to the faster storytelling or something, but in the end, I'll survive - Aftermath was still fantastic as is, and me wanting more is just me wanting more. I'm crazy like that.

I liked how the three big storylines played off of each other. Because the Lucians were eating their food, the Destiny crew were willing to try any planet so as not to starve to death. Because Rush found the bridge and how to control Destiny, he decided to get some food as soon as he could and stopped at the super-rotation planet. Because of all that, the team was sent, even though the planet wrecked their shuttle. Young was so distracted by dealing with the shuttle crash that a riot went on, and that pissed him off to the point to kick the Lucians off... blah blah blah, we know how it goes. But still, great.

Now, to Riley. My favourite side character. Who within the first few episodes became one of my favourite Stargate characters. Of all time. And he died.

Well, at least it wasn't an exploding tumour.

In seriousness, I kinda pegged Riley as dead (He did get shot in Incursion 2 after all - he could've been shot and killed right there and then), or dead-to-come. It sucks, but I don't mind, because it was a good death. It was built-up, highlighted all kinds of hopelessness, and ended in a way I would never see coming - having my favourite main character suffocate (With eye contact and all) my favourite side character in a downright gutwrenching scene... It was great to watch, while being depressing.

Poor Young. Dude's sliding downhill fast - I got a kick out of Rush's "The man is mentally unstable!" crack. Yeah guy, nice one. You killed Riley, Rush. That's not a good thing in my book. The bridge stuff was interesting - the Gloria hallucination I liked (Louise Lombard <3), and I just know Young is going to be a mite angry when he finds out that Rush hid this from him. I know I would, and I'm not as psychotic as Young.

Everyone else was there, and they were cool. Chloe's lack of screentime was kinda meh, but her one scene at least highlighted that she and Scott are still going strong. Bet nobody saw that coming. I've been keeping a closer eye on Scott, and he's doing pretty great so far - he just needs one shining moment right now, something to make him stand out and make me cheer. Greer is Greer, always fun. Poor Eli, though - he and Riley were buds, and this whole thing must be sucky to him. Poor TJ (Though I like that Park knows about her baby too - I think she and TJ have a great, understated, friendship). Wray and Telford were cool beans - I liked that they weren't actively plotting or scheming. Good for them.

Overall, a great episode only slightly let down by the fact I wanted to see more, but eh. Oh, and Ginn is awesome. RIP Riley.

mparsons1981
October 8th, 2010, 11:43 AM
For some reason no, Fraisers death didn't affect me.

I'm not the only one then!

mparsons1981
October 8th, 2010, 11:47 AM
Let me shift off Riley for a second and say this.

I need Eli to grow a set and quit the juvenile snivelling! I don't believe a person could experience (season one) and still be so lame emotionally. OMG, We're gonna die! Give me a break! I find it less believable given his IQ.

Good job besides that one thing. I'm enjoying the trip!

Yes i fully agree with this. I really think Eli needs to get a grip!

Kaiphantom
October 8th, 2010, 01:32 PM
I need Eli to grow a set and quit the juvenile snivelling! I don't believe a person could experience (season one) and still be so lame emotionally. OMG, We're gonna die! Give me a break! I find it less believable given his IQ.

I'm sorry, but no. Because they have plot armor, we knew everyone on that planet wasn't going to die. Eli was perfectly justified in saying that, because there was a very good chance of that. And Riley DID die. There was no guarantee the gate would work, and if it didn't, they had no other options (barring divine intervention). And his "whining" was one or two sentences, that's it. If you think a sentence or two of venting is somehow juvenile, then you're hypocritical because everyone has a need to vent and does so.

At the least, you can find better examples to support your point. This was a bad one for you to try.

carmencatalina
October 8th, 2010, 02:01 PM
I just wanted to say that Riley's death was hard as hell to watch. The actor did a great job, it was well scripted, the other actors did a great job, the cinematography and lighting (with the last rays of the sunset lighting the interior of the shuttle during TJ and Riley's conversation) was gorgeous. But it was really gut wrenchingly awful, too. If that makes any sense.

It reminded me of my response to Grodin's death in SGA, I was just so upset, it felt like a real death, that sense of what the hell, the person is there and talking to you, then they are gone forever and you will never talk to them again.

Rambling, but I think they did a good job.

blackluster
October 8th, 2010, 02:26 PM
Agreed on Riley's death. Full marks for idea and execution. His little line at the beginning of the ep was also a nice insight into his character as to what he believes.

Watching the ep I also felt quite bad for Young. It's just one thing after another and I don't think he is getting the proper emotional support from the people near him. In terms of personalities, I think the only person in a position to help him is Wray. Unfortunately his lack of respect for her and her apparent softness makes it difficult for him to lean on her. The only other guy who could help him through this is Telford, but he seems to be actively engaged in the Lucian Alliance mission currently. I almost wonder if they should do a temporary command swap for a period like they did with Perry. Bring on either another Colonel or even a higher ranked person just to take the heat for a bit. Barring that, Young's swaps back to Earth need to help him more. Jack really needs to sing the guy another song besides "deal with it", because it's not helping.

I greatly enjoyed the Rush scenes as well. Similarly to how he was when he first arrived on Destiny, he is heavily prone to sleep deprivation. It makes him difficult and now additionally, sloppy as well. It is somewhat strange though since the episode doesn't make it perfectly clear what the root cause of his inability to sleep is. Perhaps the presence of the LA, since he has nightmares about torture? We might have that under the surface he holds violent hate for the Lucian Alliance that is on par with Young's. The conversations with Gloria were hilarious and I loved how rationally Rush is able to not only regard the hallucination but he even tries to get it to work for him by requesting Franklin. It is clear though that the source of these visions is not entirely clear and they may very well be more to it than craziness or sleep deprivation, since Rush has never shown susceptibility to that sort of thing before.

On the visuals, the bridge looks really cool and the more I see of it, the more I love Destiny's Operating System. The system sound effects are awesome to. I find little details like that charming.

I also very much enjoyed the way certain technical clues and bits of info were disseminated in the ep:

Lucian Alliance conflict in the Milky Way escalating
Lucian Alliance seem older and much more organized than I thought
Destiny has real time gate up-links
The course Destiny plots is also rather mysterious even with the new information the bridge gives
The ftl drives must run continuously for 4 hours at a time. A very interesting piece of info.

Very cool ep with some heavy moments and some light ones to. This episode is another one of my favourites.

janus4ever
October 8th, 2010, 02:51 PM
I did not see the superior technique that how they lifted the stargate which is approx. 30 tons (64000 pounds) of weight. it was horizontal and burried they fired C4 and the gate suddenly become vertical. sorry if someone answered this question before in this topic.

carmencatalina
October 8th, 2010, 02:55 PM
I did not see the superior technique that how they lifted the stargate which is approx. 30 tons (64000 pounds) of weight. it was horizontal and burried they fired C4 and the gate suddenly become vertical. sorry if someone answered this question before in this topic.

This has been discussed quite a bit - the gate was not horizontal, it was buried vertically, someone posted a great screenshot that clearly showed that the gate was vertical under all the rock. I'll try to find it for you.

xxxevilgrinxxx
October 8th, 2010, 02:56 PM
I don't believe the buried gate was ever shown to be horizontal
drat - snaked by Carmen! :D

carmencatalina
October 8th, 2010, 02:59 PM
Borrowed from PG15's excellent post upthread:

You can see that they have started to dig the gate out, and have exposed the top chevron, which is clearly pointing down.

http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy61/petergao15/SGUAftermathGateVertical2.png