PDA

View Full Version : Reaching Destiny



kernl sandrs
September 15th, 2010, 09:52 AM
So we know Earth has Asgard intergalactic-hyperdrives, and those take around a minute or so to get from the Ida Galaxy to our own. But even if we didn't have those, it took the Daedalus a few weeks to cross the gap between Earth and Pegasus. And they are relatively close together (in astrophysics, at least).

So looking at this:

*Mod insert : click link to view animated image at wikia.
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091007201908/stargate/images/9/9f/Flightpath.gif

I'd say it would take a ship with an Asgard IGH less than a week to travel that distance, and that's being generous. And the Daedalus a few months.

So knowing this, Earth could easily reach the Destiny within a year or two, maybe three. The drives the Destiny uses are far inferior to a hyperdrive, so they could catch up to them.

Now this is the part where I'm supposed to ask "Why don't they do it if they can?" But we all know that would do horrific things to the plot, and that's not what the writers want (or what the viewers want to see, for that matter)

So the real question is, can they really reach the Destiny if they want to?

General Jumper One
September 15th, 2010, 12:19 PM
perhaps the Asgard are transwarping, that is how they get here fast, then they have to recharge so it takes them a while to get back

themeatcleaver
September 15th, 2010, 02:06 PM
personally i like the 11th hour reprieves so i say lets launch the daedalus now and they can bail out the gang during the season 4 finale al'a The Siege. How badass would destiny be flanked by a 304? lol

dacooker
September 15th, 2010, 06:51 PM
Yes they could.
They have the resources to search out and discover another Icarus type planet. Gating in supplies, needed professionals and tradespeople, etc. It's too bad Destiny can't dial Earth =/.
As you put it, it they sent a 304 to Destiny it would take time. The problem of risking a 304 to head out to the outer Universe with no possible resupply once out there. All sorts of problems could come up along the, stranding the ship and crew. I love the idea of them popping out of nowhere out of nowhere in a later season, saving the day and then travel together. (omg it's not the Pegasus to our Galactica)
The best solution is a ZedPM. It's like a cold shower in the morning, BAM SUPERCHARGE. The Daedalus was able to get to Pegasus Galaxy in four days using a ZedPM, opposed to 20. The best solution would obviously end the series. The ZedPM would have to be depleted, stranding the 304. Once again the Pegasus to our Galactica!

This could all happen, however we mustn't forget that the SGA Movie is occuring during the expedition to Destiny. **** is going down in the Milky Way/Pegasus wherever.

Steelbox
September 17th, 2010, 04:26 AM
Just one thing. Earth does NOT have the same Hyperdrive than the Asgards. The Technology principles may be the same but surely we cant math the Asgard hyperdrive speed.
The Asgard took seconds to travel from one galaxy to another and we take weeks to travel between Milky Way and Pegasus. See my point.

dacooker
September 17th, 2010, 05:43 AM
Just one thing. Earth does NOT have the same Hyperdrive than the Asgards. The Technology principles may be the same but surely we cant math the Asgard hyperdrive speed.
The Asgard took seconds to travel from one galaxy to another and we take weeks to travel between Milky Way and Pegasus. See my point.


The best solution is a ZedPM. It's like a cold shower in the morning, BAM SUPERCHARGE. The Daedalus was able to get to Pegasus Galaxy in four days using a ZedPM, opposed to 20. The best solution would obviously end the series. The ZedPM would have to be depleted, stranding the 304. Once again the Pegasus to our Galactica!

I pulled this quote from my post just above yours. We may currently not have the same speed as Asgurd engines, however it's been closely matched in the past. As for Asgurd technology. They left all their knowledge to us, and gave all their latest technology to the Odessey. This included as Asgurd core. This combined with the Ancient database in Atlantis, we could design and build hyperdrives even faster...IE WORMHOLE DRIVE!!!!

webxro
September 17th, 2010, 06:47 AM
I think that the complexity of the calculations increases once with the distance , so it would be near impossible for a ship to go there , but how about a advanced HyperDrive

kernl sandrs
September 17th, 2010, 10:33 AM
I think that the complexity of the calculations increases once with the distance , so it would be near impossible for a ship to go there , but how about a advanced HyperDrive

Why do you say that? I don't follow your logic. Destiny got where Destiny is (duh) why can't another ship that's more advanced get there, too?

webxro
September 17th, 2010, 11:37 PM
I was referring to Wormhole drive , and probably it would take some time for a 304 to go there

kernl sandrs
September 17th, 2010, 11:57 PM
I was referring to Wormhole drive , and probably it would take some time for a 304 to go there

Not if it were using a wormhole drive... That's the entire idea behind using a wormhole to transport a space ship. It's near-instantaneous.

webxro
September 18th, 2010, 05:06 AM
The calculations for a wormhole increase in complexity over distance so it would be near impossible to get to the other side of the universe , also the power req are to huge ,and i was referring that a 304 would travel trow hyperspace a long time before reaching Destiny , since the only thing that has this magi-drive is Atlantis as we can't be sure how big it is or if it can be fit for a 304

kernl sandrs
September 18th, 2010, 06:54 AM
The calculations for a wormhole increase in complexity over distance so it would be near impossible to get to the other side of the universe , also the power req are to huge ,and i was referring that a 304 would travel trow hyperspace a long time before reaching Destiny , since the only thing that has this magi-drive is Atlantis as we can't be sure how big it is or if it can be fit for a 304

Nobody said the 304 had to make it to Destiny in one jump. The 304 could easily use the [wormhole] drive to get a good distance, Then use it again and again and again, in small jumps. A bit like they did when they were looking for Atlantis, after it left Lantea.

Janus
September 29th, 2010, 09:25 AM
Time to give this discussion a twist. You see, I don't believe a 304 is the best way to go. I think "The Tower" - Atlantis sister ship - is the best way to reach Destiny. Here is my wacky plan....

To begin with, I think it's safe to say that Atlantis' regular stardrive is faster then the Hyperdrive of a 304. But....Speed is the outcome of mass vs energy. Thus...if the mass is reduced, but the energy remains the same...speed increases.

Now, how much of the city's mass do you think the Command Tower is ? Ten percent, five ? So...how fast would Atlantis be if it was just the Stardrive and the Command Tower ? Of course, we can never modify Atlantis in that way. (Nor would we want to.) But....

we can extract the Command Tower/Stardrive from the Tower. It would probably take months - we wouldn't just have to extract the Tower, we'd also have to make repairs and make it airtight - and we'd have to relocate the natives. But if we can overcome the diplomatic obsticales, it could be done. Plug in three ZPMs, amp up the Structural Integrity Field and let's go.

morbosfist
September 29th, 2010, 10:50 AM
All well and good... except the stardrive encompasses the full area of the ship. You couldn't remove the command tower and fly it. It doesn't have any engines. The engines are on the six piers. Moreover, the shield which protects Atlantis has ten emitters spread out over the city, and there's no telling just what buildings those were built into. The command tower might not even have one.

Gatz
September 29th, 2010, 01:31 PM
yes, seeing one or several 304s escorting destiny would be cool, but I hope this never happens :)

Andru10
September 30th, 2010, 07:59 AM
Seeing as it takes weeks to traverse a distance of millions of light-years and considering that Destiny is billions of light-years away, the time it would take would be 1000 times greater, meaning a couple of decades which is unreasonable even if it is within a human lifetime

mlund05
September 30th, 2010, 06:09 PM
Not very practical imo, did some math. Since it takes 4 days in an earth ship with a zpm to get to pegasus which is like 3.5 million light years, then it would take roughly 1142 days of non-stop hyperspace travel at that speed just to get 1 billion light years(Assuming I did my math right).

morbosfist
September 30th, 2010, 06:12 PM
Only the Odyssey can go that fast. It takes a normal 304 about 4.5 times as long.

Hermiod
September 30th, 2010, 07:48 PM
Nobody said the 304 had to make it to Destiny in one jump. The 304 could easily use the [wormhole] drive to get a good distance, Then use it again and again and again, in small jumps. A bit like they did when they were looking for Atlantis, after it left Lantea.

And when the 304 runs out of fuel?

Quadhelix
October 1st, 2010, 06:51 PM
So we know Earth has Asgard intergalactic-hyperdrives, and those take around a minute or so to get from the Ida Galaxy to our own. How do we know that?

I mean, I got the impression from "Unnatural Selection" that it took the Asgard some time to get back to Ida after they collected Prometheus.



But even if we didn't have those, it took the Daedalus a few weeks to cross the gap between Earth and Pegasus. And they are relatively close together (in astrophysics, at least).

So looking at this:

*Mod insert : click link to view animated image at wikia.
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091007201908/stargate/images/9/9f/Flightpath.gif

I'd say it would take a ship with an Asgard IGH less than a week to travel that distance, and that's being generous. And the Daedalus a few months.

So knowing this, Earth could easily reach the Destiny within a year or two, maybe three. The Destiny is known to be over 1 billion light-years from Earth. Moreover, it has been traveling at rate not that much slower than a BC-304 for well over a million years.



The drives the Destiny uses are far inferior to a hyperdrive, so they could catch up to them. The Destiny's drive was able to cross million+ the void between galaxies some time less than three months, so it can't be that much slower than a BC-304's hyperdrive.





So the real question is, can they really reach the Destiny if they want to?
Assuming that the Destiny is 1 billion light-years away, it would take a ZPM-powered BC-304 roughly 3.7 years to get to Destiny and another 3.7 years to get back. That's over seven years of one of Earth's only ZPM off trying to collect 80 people.

Without a ZPM, it would take a BC-304 roughly 16 years to reach the Destiny.

Mike.
October 2nd, 2010, 06:12 AM
Also let's not forget that Destiny is most likely much farther than that. The quote did say "Several billion light-years from home" . The numbers quickly jump to decades of travel time. It's not fair to the crew of the 304 to strand them for most of their lives. Or even for the people of Earth (making the only ZPM-powered unavailable to defend it for a long period of time). It's simply too far.

Janus
October 3rd, 2010, 09:40 AM
To try and spin this discussion....I think we should go back to Plan A, which is to dial in. But not directly. Because I think it take less power to dial eight chevrons then nine. I think the code to reach Destiny is cracking the 'X-Factor distance equation' that controls the eighth chevron. Once the "X-Factor DE' or ACG - Area Code Generator' - is cracked, we should be able to dail Gates within range of Destiny, allowing the crew to resupply and expand.

morbosfist
October 3rd, 2010, 09:42 AM
Why would it take any less power to dial an eight-chevron address over the same distance as a nine-chevon one?

Mike.
October 3rd, 2010, 10:17 AM
Why would it take any less power to dial an eight-chevron address over the same distance as a nine-chevon one?

Stargates usually make a precise aimed connection because they all know each other's location thanks to Correlative Updates. Without that, over time because of stellar drift a connection could no longer be made. It would just aim at empty space and get nothing. This bit is established canon.

My theory about the 9 ch. code is that it uses a completely different communication protocol - like sending a signal in all directions because Destiny could be anywhere (proof: massive power usage even before the connection was established), instead of a highly directional beam like normal gate communication. It keeps broadcasting with increasing energy (needing astronomical levels of power, like a whole naquadah planet) until eventually it gets a hit. That initiating signal crossed the vast distance (through some layer of subspace) from the MW to the Destiny in *all* directions to be able to find it. Imagine an ever expanding sphere. This makes sense - Destiny's is a moving gate so it will never have a precise stationary position for a significant amount of time. My theory about the signal is also supported by the events in Air, Incursion and Lost - Destiny will receive the signal for a 9 chevron dialing while in FTL and drop in normal space to receive the wormhole, but won't stop for a standard 7 chevron connection that wouldn't use a signal like this (like in Lost).

Now that I posted that to make things clear - to answer your question: if we could somehow precisely determine Destiny's location in one point in time - we can use an 8 chevron address and establish a connection directly (aimed) without needing the lookup signal. It would save some energy, but how much of a difference it would make is yet to be determined - we don't know what it takes to maintain the wormhole vs. sending the signal.

morbosfist
October 3rd, 2010, 10:30 AM
A logical argument. It should still take a colossal amount of power, though, given how much power other intergalactic wormholes have needed.

SG-17
October 3rd, 2010, 01:36 PM
Just take the Odyssey with its ZPM and Asgard Core, give it a minimal crew, close off unneeded portions to put more energy to the hyperdrives, use the replicators to make air and food, and use the time dilation feature of the core to slow down time inside of the ship while it still moves at maximum speeds towards the Destiny.

Maybe we can even use the replicators to make more ZPMs to even further supercharge the hyperdrives. Though then presents the question, why not just make a hundred ZPMs and power the Stargate in the SGC to dial the Destiny?

morbosfist
October 3rd, 2010, 02:01 PM
ZPMs can't be replicated. It would just make useless hunks of crystal. They'd have to know how to create an artificial universe inside the ZPM.

Janus
October 4th, 2010, 09:15 AM
A logical argument. It should still take a colossal amount of power, though, given how much power other intergalactic wormholes have needed.

True. but it's a start. And by not dailing Destiny directly, we would no longer have to dail using Earth as the point of origin. Which means that we could try dailing in from Pegasus. (And yes, I know that probably wouldn't help all that much either. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.)

morbosfist
October 4th, 2010, 11:14 AM
If you assume that the power is cumulative, then dialling Destiny should take something in the neighborhood of 1000 times the power of a Milky Way to Pegasus dial. Going to Pegasus chops off approximately 1 of that 1000. If wormhole distance is exponential, then that number is a lot bigger.

Quadhelix
October 5th, 2010, 04:40 PM
To try and spin this discussion....I think we should go back to Plan A, which is to dial in. But not directly. Because I think it take less power to dial eight chevrons then nine. I think the code to reach Destiny is cracking the 'X-Factor distance equation' that controls the eighth chevron. Once the "X-Factor DE' or ACG - Area Code Generator' - is cracked, we should be able to dail Gates within range of Destiny, allowing the crew to resupply and expand. The problem with this idea is that it is exceedingly unlikely that 8-Chevron addresses extend out as far as the Destiny has traveled. There are only so many possible 38-choose-7 strings (with the eighth symbol being the Point of Origin), and there are a lot of galaxies within a billion light-years.

For the record, there are 63,606,090,240 possible 8-chevron addresses and 63 million galaxies within 1 billion light-years of Earth (http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/superc.html). While this would seem to indicate the existence of more than enough addresses to cover the number of galaxies (roughly 1000 addresses for each galaxy), there is a problem. If the addresses really do represent the coordinates of "random" positions in space, then the vast majority of them should fall in the spaces between galaxies.

For example, the Milky Way galaxy has a volume of about 8 trillion cubic light-years. There are three similarly sized galaxies (Milky Way, Andromeda, and Triangulum) in the Local Group, as well as a number of dwarf galaxies that, all together, should add about as much volume as a forth. There is, therefore, about 25 trillion cubic light-years worth of galaxy within the Local Group.

The Local Group, being about 10 million light-years across, has a total volume of about 1,000,000,000 trillion cubic light-years, meaning that it contains about 40,000,000 times as much empty space as it does galaxy.

Then, you look at the fact that the Local Group is a tight pack of galaxies in what is mostly emptiness, and you begin to realize that 63,606,090,240 eight-chevron addresses doesn't even come close to covering the needs of the nearest billion light-years, let alone a few more billion out. Indeed, there are over 7 trillion galaxies in the visible universe (http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/universe.html) - more galaxies than addresses!

Janus
October 16th, 2010, 04:56 AM
The problem with this idea is that it is exceedingly unlikely that 8-Chevron addresses extend out as far as the Destiny has traveled. There are only so many possible 38-choose-7 strings (with the eighth symbol being the Point of Origin), and there are a lot of galaxies within a billion light-years.

For the record, there are 63,606,090,240 possible 8-chevron addresses and 63 million galaxies within 1 billion light-years of Earth (http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/superc.html). While this would seem to indicate the existence of more than enough addresses to cover the number of galaxies (roughly 1000 addresses for each galaxy), there is a problem. If the addresses really do represent the coordinates of "random" positions in space, then the vast majority of them should fall in the spaces between galaxies.

For example, the Milky Way galaxy has a volume of about 8 trillion cubic light-years. There are three similarly sized galaxies (Milky Way, Andromeda, and Triangulum) in the Local Group, as well as a number of dwarf galaxies that, all together, should add about as much volume as a forth. There is, therefore, about 25 trillion cubic light-years worth of galaxy within the Local Group.

The Local Group, being about 10 million light-years across, has a total volume of about 1,000,000,000 trillion cubic light-years, meaning that it contains about 40,000,000 times as much empty space as it does galaxy.

Then, you look at the fact that the Local Group is a tight pack of galaxies in what is mostly emptiness, and you begin to realize that 63,606,090,240 eight-chevron addresses doesn't even come close to covering the needs of the nearest billion light-years, let alone a few more billion out. Indeed, there are over 7 trillion galaxies in the visible universe (http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/universe.html) - more galaxies than addresses!

Owww....Good point. Okay, Plan C anybody ?

glennh73
October 21st, 2010, 12:43 AM
Simple simple simple. Here is what you do. First you need to grab an extra Zpm. Second you find out from Destinys computers where it went thru the Pegasus galaxy and when. When is very important.

Three, you get the time ship puddlejumper, with the Zpm and crew of 2 or 3 on a mission they wont come back from and Timejump to Destiny while its going threw the Pegasus galaxy Millions of years ago.
While on Destiny park the Puddlejumper in a spot already determined spot and cloaked and left there for the crew of present day.

The two or three member crew can do whatever hence its millions of years ago and wont affect anything.

Present day crew of Destiny having determined the spot of cloaked Puddlejumper can open it up, get the zpm out along with anything else they needed , plug it into the Destiny and power the gate and go home.

Simple really!

Janus
October 22nd, 2010, 12:40 PM
Nice

webxro
October 22nd, 2010, 11:00 PM
except the fact that you need more then a zpm

kernl sandrs
October 22nd, 2010, 11:21 PM
Stargates usually make a precise aimed connection because they all know each other's location thanks to Correlative Updates. Without that, over time because of stellar drift a connection could no longer be made. It would just aim at empty space and get nothing. This bit is established canon.

My theory about the 9 ch. code is that it uses a completely different communication protocol - like sending a signal in all directions because Destiny could be anywhere (proof: massive power usage even before the connection was established), instead of a highly directional beam like normal gate communication. It keeps broadcasting with increasing energy (needing astronomical levels of power, like a whole naquadah planet) until eventually it gets a hit. That initiating signal crossed the vast distance (through some layer of subspace) from the MW to the Destiny in *all* directions to be able to find it. Imagine an ever expanding sphere. This makes sense - Destiny's is a moving gate so it will never have a precise stationary position for a significant amount of time.

....

Now that I posted that to make things clear - to answer your question: if we could somehow precisely determine Destiny's location in one point in time - we can use an 8 chevron address and establish a connection directly (aimed) without needing the lookup signal. It would save some energy, but how much of a difference it would make is yet to be determined - we don't know what it takes to maintain the wormhole vs. sending the signal.


morbosfist's question was "Why would it take any less power to dial an eight-chevron address over the same distance as a nine-chevon one?"

The answer is....It wouldn't [take any less power]. DHD's are able to supplement enough power to the gates for intra-galaxy travel. When dialing another galaxy, it requires extraordinary power to establish a wormhole. We see this in SGA when they don't have enough power to dial the Milky-Way, but can effortlessly dial other planets within that galaxy. The same is seen when needing to establish a wormhole of the supergate, between our galaxy and the Ori galaxy. It was so far away, in fact, that it required the destruction of an entire planet down to a singularity to provide enough power. It's safe to say that the farther away the gate is, the more power it requires. Dialing a galaxy near Destiny would take just as much power as dialing the ship itself.



My theory about the signal is also supported by the events in Air, Incursion and Lost - Destiny will receive the signal for a 9 chevron dialing while in FTL and drop in normal space to receive the wormhole,

Destiny dropped out of FTL for those instances because they dialed the gate properly and had sufficient power.



but won't stop for a standard 7 chevron connection that wouldn't use a signal like this (like in Lost).

Is THIS (http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Lost)the episode you're referring to? It didn't drop out of FTL because, if I recall correctly, *ahem* THEY COULD NOT DIAL THE GATE TO DESTINY. They were out of range, and had to 'gate hop' to catch up with Destiny.



I didn't read your WHOLE post, but is it too early to post this (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/debunked)?

Mike.
October 23rd, 2010, 03:51 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY


I stopped reading at "time ship puddlejumper", but I did eyeball a few words and phrases of the rest.

[dislike]
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh15/supporter555/picard-facepalm.jpg
You should consider toning down the insults a bit and actually providing real arguments if you want to be taken seriously. :)


morbosfist's question was "Why would it take any less power to dial an eight-chevron address over the same distance as a nine-chevon one?"
A question which was answered further down the post. The large exposition was necessary to explain what my argument is based on.



The answer is....It wouldn't [take any less power]. DHD's are able to supplement enough power to the gates for intra-galaxy travel. When dialing another galaxy, it requires extraordinary power to establish a wormhole. We see this in SGA when they don't have enough power to dial the Milky-Way, but can effortlessly dial other planets within that galaxy. The same is seen when needing to establish a wormhole of the supergate, between our galaxy and the Ori galaxy. It was so far away, in fact, that it required the destruction of an entire planet down to a singularity to provide enough power. It's safe to say that the farther away the gate is, the more power it requires. Dialing a galaxy near Destiny would take just as much power as dialing the ship itself.

The point is there are plenty of irregularities between the 9 chevron system vs. the 7 or 8 system that leave room for a lot of speculation. So far there is not enough evidence (provided by the show or TPTB) to completely dismiss anything and replace it with something bullet-proof. Any of our 'pet' theories could be correct. I made it clear that parts of what I posted were speculation.

Your theory is also standing on the same shaky grounds BTW.



Destiny dropped out of FTL for those instances because they dialed the gate properly and had sufficient power.

Using a remote is also "dialing a gate properly" - it's how the Ancients designed them to be used. Also considering the distance (at that point in the show) they also had enough power (standard 7 chevron distance). By your theory it should have worked as both requirements are satisfied.




Is THIS (http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Lost)the episode you're referring to? It didn't drop out of FTL because, if I recall correctly, *ahem* THEY COULD NOT DIAL THE GATE TO DESTINY. They were out of range, and had to 'gate hop' to catch up with Destiny.
No. At that point in the episode they had already hopped through enough gates to be in range of Destiny. The remote confirmed this. The first time Eli tried to dial he got a busy signal - Rush was returning from another planet at that moment. When he dialed in the second time Destiny had already jumped in FTL. All of this is canon BTW and is also mentioned in the link you posted. You did read it, right ?



I didn't read your WHOLE post[...]Clearly. :sam34:

Quadhelix
October 25th, 2010, 02:18 PM
It was so far away, in fact, that it required the destruction of an entire planet down to a singularity to provide enough power. That was, if you recall from "The Pegasus Project," also due to the Supergate's size - it was explicitly stated that the power requirements were proportional to the size of the event horizon.

Also, remember that they used a naturally occurring black hole to connect to the Supergate from Pegasus.




Dialing a galaxy near Destiny would take just as much power as dialing the ship itself. Do you have any evidence for this? Your examples show that dialing a planet/galaxy near Destiny would certainly require a significant amount of power, you haven't shown that the amount required would be the same as dialing Destiny's nine-chevron address.





Destiny dropped out of FTL for those instances because they dialed the gate properly and had sufficient power. And yet, it didn't drop out of FTL in "Lost," in spite of the fact that the 'Gate on the planet had enough power (re: "Sabotage") and Destiny was apparently still in range (re: "Sabotage").





Is THIS (http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Lost)the episode you're referring to? It didn't drop out of FTL because, if I recall correctly, *ahem* THEY COULD NOT DIAL THE GATE TO DESTINY. They were out of range, and had to 'gate hop' to catch up with Destiny. He was talking about the end of "Lost," when Destiny was in range but also in FTL.




I didn't read your WHOLE post, but is it too early to post this (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/debunked)?
Yes. Far too early.




Present day crew of Destiny having determined the spot of cloaked Puddlejumper can open it up, get the zpm out along with anything else they needed , plug it into the Destiny and power the gate and go home.

A) That would require giving up a ZPM, of which we have only about five, in order to bring back about 80 people

B) There is no reason to think that a ZPM is capable of providing enough power, especially since nobody seems to have considered it an option for sending things to Destiny (such as the intended expedition).

JustAnotherVoice
October 26th, 2010, 11:24 PM
Simple simple simple. Here is what you do. First you need to grab an extra Zpm. Second you find out from Destinys computers where it went thru the Pegasus galaxy and when. When is very important.

Three, you get the time ship puddlejumper, with the Zpm and crew of 2 or 3 on a mission they wont come back from and Timejump to Destiny while its going threw the Pegasus galaxy Millions of years ago.
While on Destiny park the Puddlejumper in a spot already determined spot and cloaked and left there for the crew of present day.

The two or three member crew can do whatever hence its millions of years ago and wont affect anything.

Present day crew of Destiny having determined the spot of cloaked Puddlejumper can open it up, get the zpm out along with anything else they needed , plug it into the Destiny and power the gate and go home.

Simple really!

I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that mission call up.

O'neill - Volunteers for a one way trip back a million or so years ago! You'll have limited food and supplies, so the trip probably won't be too long, and the company probably won't be great. You'll never see your friends or family again, nor will you ever have a home cooked meal. The good news is, you can bring all the reading material you could ever want, and you'll get a guaranteed 30 years worth of hazard duty packpay deposited straight into your next of kin's accounts! Oh, yeah, you'll all get a single 9mm round for your sidearms. I shouldn't need to explain that. So, hands up!

vszulc
October 26th, 2010, 11:46 PM
One little detail: Why would a ZPM work aboard the Destiny? It's an technology thats much newer than Destiny, and it's either completely uncompatible, or the work needed to modify Destiny would be beyond the possibilities of the present crew.

It would be like trying to hook up a nuclear reactor to a steam locomotive, for crying out loud!

pillwokie
October 27th, 2010, 12:54 PM
SGC was integrateand use a ZPM with the SGC stargate and also on a BC304. So....how is it not possible to find a way to use it on destiny?

The destiny as a ships looks far more advance than the BC304 and the stargate at SGC, even if it is XXXXXXXXXX years older.

pillwokie
October 27th, 2010, 12:54 PM
The SGC was able integrate and use a ZPM with the SGC stargate and also on a BC304. So....how is it not possible to find a way to use it on destiny?

The destiny as a ships looks far more advance than the BC304 and the stargate at SGC, even if it is XXXXXXXXXX years older.

morbosfist
October 27th, 2010, 12:57 PM
The SGC was able integrate and use a ZPM with the SGC stargate and also on a BC304. So....how is it not possible to find a way to use it on destiny?

The destiny as a ships looks far more advance than the BC304 and the stargate at SGC, even if it is XXXXXXXXXX years older.Looks can be deceiving. A 304 is far more advanced than Destiny technologically.

pillwokie
October 27th, 2010, 01:47 PM
I disagree. It depends on what you consider as more advanced.
Yes the Destiny has no hyperdrive system.
But, if you evaluate few things like Durability(materials it's made of), having its own stargate, holoscreens, being powered by star energy, weapons (by the moment the 304 used the zpm it had only rail guns and nuclear warheads), plus technologies not yet discovered by the crew. Then.......i don't think a 304 is far more advanced.

I really doubt that any 304 could last as long as the destiny have and still be in the condition the destiny is.

Mike.
October 28th, 2010, 02:06 PM
Also Destiny's FTL is not that inferior compared to hyperdrives, the ship crossed that void pretty fast. The shields are used regularly for star diving. In terms of power generation the combined output of Destiny and a seeder ship is on par or better than a ZPM - something which the 304s are not even close to. pillwokie already mentioned the durability.

morbosfist
October 28th, 2010, 04:42 PM
True, in certain areas Destiny is more advanced, longevity chief among them. As far as armament, defenses, etc. go, it has to be behind. Its FTL is pretty fast across the void, better than a standard hyperdrive, but a 304 is faster. The seeder ship's output probably far exceeds that of Destiny, even at full power.

Aesop
November 6th, 2010, 01:48 AM
I was thinking about this the other day, wouldn't it be possible to take Atlantis to another Icarus-type planet and integrate the city with the planets core for more power? The Lanteans did something of that nature with the drilling platform that the Atlantis Expedition discovered. So it seems possible that they could touchdown on an Icarus-type planet, spend a little time setting up a secondary power system that flows directly from the planets core to the gate, letting the ZPM's power the rest of the city.

Also, isn't it true that the core went critical from the combined trauma of dialing Destiny AND the attack from the Lucian Alliance? There's no guarantee that another attack would happen, so it may be safe to use Atlantis in that manner. Even if it did happen again, Atlantis could disconnect the wormhole and take off into hyperspace before it was too late (though some serious calculations would probably need to be done by just about every whiz the SGC has in order to know when the right time to leave would be).

morbosfist
November 6th, 2010, 09:13 AM
The planet exploded the first time because the core was already unstable from the Alliance firing on the planet. The second time, Rush hadn't properly calibrated the power systems, resulting in a similar instability.

To the question, no, Atlantis couldn't just be integrated like that. They'd need a link straight to the core, for starters. Probably requires more than a drilling rig to manage that. Getting the power to the gate would likely be easier.

Aesop
November 6th, 2010, 01:54 PM
The Icarus base essentially an integration of human/ancient tech with the planets core, wasn't it? Couldn't they feasibly do the same thing they did at Icarus only direct it, say, into a designated conduit to Atlantis' gate? They could probably send a science team to begin preparations long before Atlantis arrives, then Atlantis could land where they need to and the connection could be ready and waiting.

I don't know, I'm sure there's some science I'm not considering. But it seems plausible.

morbosfist
November 6th, 2010, 02:03 PM
If they really put their minds to it, they could. Reminds me of a joke from the Superman Doomsday animated movie about plugging a power cord into Satan.

Velocy
December 6th, 2010, 01:47 AM
Something that just came into my mind. Remember the terraforming Aliens from the SG1 Episode? Where some people are colonized on a planet, then suddenly an alien ship appears terraforming the planet for their own race?

They found the home planet, by looking into the ships database which scanned a lot of planets to find a new planet to rebuild the race. Why not sent a 304 there and ask them: Hey, you may have seen an icarus like planet during your journey? ^^

Not sure if someone brought this up yet... but would be an idea :)

General Jumper One
December 6th, 2010, 04:18 AM
Something that just came into my mind. Remember the terraforming Aliens from the SG1 Episode? Where some people are colonized on a planet, then suddenly an alien ship appears terraforming the planet for their own race?

They found the home planet, by looking into the ships database which scanned a lot of planets to find a new planet to rebuild the race. Why not sent a 304 there and ask them: Hey, you may have seen an icarus like planet during your journey? ^^

Not sure if someone brought this up yet... but would be an idea :)

neat idea, but we don't know where it is

Illidan
December 6th, 2010, 02:04 PM
@Aesop: As far as I am informed the problem is not dialing when you have an Icarus-type planet, it is finding such a planet. Rush only dialed Destiny because he thought that they would never again find a similar planet. It is very surprising they even found a second one (actually I think that was a case of bad writing).

@Velocy: That is a cool idea, but we dont know if this ship is already back from the enkaran home planet and if it is, it would be complicated to communicate since Lotan stayed with the enkarans.

Btw, did no one notice that the gif from the first post doesnt show the whole course of destiny? After the camera moves away you can still hear bleeps indicating more explored galaxies.

Greenfire32
December 6th, 2010, 06:55 PM
Every time the "counter" reached another galaxy, it made a small beeping noise.

There were many more beeps heard off screen than were witnessed visually on screen. The destiny is farther than that gif suggests.

sgc
December 7th, 2010, 02:59 PM
So we know Earth has Asgard intergalactic-hyperdrives, and those take around a minute or so to get from the Ida Galaxy to our own. But even if we didn't have those, it took the Daedalus a few weeks to cross the gap between Earth and Pegasus. And they are relatively close together (in astrophysics, at least).

So looking at this:

*Mod insert : click link to view animated image at wikia.
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091007201908/stargate/images/9/9f/Flightpath.gif

I'd say it would take a ship with an Asgard IGH less than a week to travel that distance, and that's being generous. And the Daedalus a few months.

So knowing this, Earth could easily reach the Destiny within a year or two, maybe three. The drives the Destiny uses are far inferior to a hyperdrive, so they could catch up to them.

Now this is the part where I'm supposed to ask "Why don't they do it if they can?" But we all know that would do horrific things to the plot, and that's not what the writers want (or what the viewers want to see, for that matter)

So the real question is, can they really reach the Destiny if they want to?

It's all about how much power you're pumping into the hyperdrive. When powered by a ZPM and the Asgard Intergalactic Hyperdrive, the Daedalus could travel between Earth and Lantea in 4 days. The more energy you pump into a hyperdrive, the faster/further it goes. In order to go as fast as the Asgard ships, you need an Asgard ship.

Spoiler: SG-1 Unending
And the Asgard aren't around anymore

Since we can't get an Asgard ship, we just need to make our Asgard hyperdrives faster, such as by utilizing their ion drives from the Beliskner and O'neill class ships.

Currently, the answer is no. They can't reach Destiny in that timeframe given our current ship speeds.

sgc
December 7th, 2010, 03:06 PM
The "Faith" aliens could possibly help. They "magically" plopped the shuttle into that galaxy. They could easily pop the Hammond to Destiny's position.

General Jumper One
December 7th, 2010, 03:14 PM
The "Faith" aliens could possibly help. They "magically" plopped the shuttle into that galaxy. They could easily pop the Hammond to Destiny's position.

they probably don't know the Hammond and most like about Earth either

sgc
December 7th, 2010, 03:17 PM
they probably don't know the Hammond and most like about Earth either

I know, but I meant that it is possible to randomly plop from one point in space to another. That may be what Destiny's mission is.

Greenfire32
December 7th, 2010, 03:46 PM
they probably don't know the Hammond and most like about Earth either

If the Faithliens are ascended beings after all (who don't share the "Don't interfere" policy with the Ancients) then it's very possible they do know about Earth.

If I was a Faithlien, I would help out only when it's absolutely necessary, because let's face it, if you were looking down on the happenings of SGU it would be pretty interesting to watch this whole thing play out would it not?

I wouldn't give the ant colony their food, but I'd help them find a way to it.

General Jumper One
December 7th, 2010, 05:09 PM
If the Faithliens are ascended beings after all (who don't share the "Don't interfere" policy with the Ancients) then it's very possible they do know about Earth.

If I was a Faithlien, I would help out only when it's absolutely necessary, because let's face it, if you were looking down on the happenings of SGU it would be pretty interesting to watch this whole thing play out would it not?

I wouldn't give the ant colony their food, but I'd help them find a way to it.

Ascended beings aren't all knowing, assuming they are ascended beings

Greenfire32
December 7th, 2010, 05:14 PM
Ascended beings aren't all knowing, assuming they are ascended beings
There are many plains of existence. Some below ascended Ancients and some above. We cannot discount that a being higher than an Ancient isn't all knowing or at least aware of vast quantities of the universe.

sgc
December 7th, 2010, 06:18 PM
If the Faithliens are ascended beings after all (who don't share the "Don't interfere" policy with the Ancients) then it's very possible they do know about Earth.

If I was a Faithlien, I would help out only when it's absolutely necessary, because let's face it, if you were looking down on the happenings of SGU it would be pretty interesting to watch this whole thing play out would it not?

I wouldn't give the ant colony their food, but I'd help them find a way to it.

Ooh!! That was brilliant! I wish I could green you for that. Whether or not they subscribe to the "Haha I'm going to just watch you guys all kill each other and not even help ascend you" policy, they still look at us lowers as bugs; "insignificant; amusing".

Why throw them a bone when you can hide the bone and send them on a treasure hunt to go find it?

I still REALLY hope that the "Faithliens" (nice name :D) aren't just normal ascended beings like the Ancients (nothing to do with philosophy, but power and behavior).

sgc
December 7th, 2010, 06:20 PM
There are many plains of existence. Some below ascended Ancients and some above. We cannot discount that a being higher than an Ancient isn't all knowing or at least aware of vast quantities of the universe.

Anyone reaching that level of existence has to gain a bit of knowledge along the way. And when I say "a bit", i mean A LOT. They are probably "superascendeds" as I dubbed them, because they are above the level of the ascended Ancients.

Greenfire32
December 7th, 2010, 09:06 PM
Why throw them a bone when you can hide the bone and send them on a treasure hunt to go find it?
Exactly, and I'm glad you like the name.
Anyone reaching that level of existence has to gain a bit of knowledge along the way. And when I say "a bit", i mean A LOT. They are probably "superascendeds" as I dubbed them, because they are above the level of the ascended Ancients.Again, exactly.
Enjoy your green.
(^.^)

sgc
December 7th, 2010, 09:08 PM
Exactly, and I'm glad you like the name.

Again, exactly.
Enjoy your green.
(^.^)

Thank you. Do I have permission to use it in the rest of the forum :)?

Thanks :D. It's nice to be appreciated.

Greenfire32
December 7th, 2010, 09:23 PM
Thank you. Do I have permission to use it in the rest of the forum :)?

Thanks :D. It's nice to be appreciated.

"Faithliens"?

Yeah man. Knock 'em dead!

sgc
December 7th, 2010, 09:27 PM
"Faithliens"?

Yeah man. Knock 'em dead!

Sweet. :indeed: I'll use it enough times (in the proper context) to reach the Destiny and back XD

wingsabre
March 23rd, 2011, 07:10 PM
What I don't understand is, why can't they just build a ship, with a stargate in it. Attach several Mark II Naquadah generators to the gate, and fly the ship near a black hole. Use both the black hole and the generator to power the gate, and dial Destiny. The generators will burn out fairly quickly, and when that happens, the gate will lose it's power and the gate will close.

webxro
March 24th, 2011, 08:59 AM
Black hole= Big Gravity . So no gate travel , the only gate travel with a singularity is that of the supergate and that is a special case with a much lower mass .

garhkal
March 24th, 2011, 12:32 PM
yyup.. Time dilations is also a Bit(H

Voyager_sput
March 24th, 2011, 02:15 PM
True there, but an interesting point, could a micro singularity be used to power a gate to dial destiny?

If they could use a gate in "The Pegasus Project" using the power of a singularity to dial another galaxy, why not dial Destiny? Apparantly a singulairy supplies limitless power.

All we'd need to do if figure out a way to prevent gravitational and time distortions to translate to the gate to Destiny :)

webxro
March 24th, 2011, 02:37 PM
Considering that not even the asgards could counter the gravity and time dilation of a black hole .

And getting enough power to dial equals way to close to the gravity well .

Nth Chevron
March 24th, 2011, 06:05 PM
How about a subspace bubble like Carter created in 'Grace'?

Takes gravity out of the equation (i think) which would also negate any temporal problems

N.C

webxro
March 25th, 2011, 01:50 AM
There is one small problem , you can't have hyperspace that close to a WH .

Janus
March 25th, 2011, 12:16 PM
There is one small problem , you can't have hyperspace that close to a WH .

Indeed, I think the field would disrupt the WH and make it useless.

webxro
March 25th, 2011, 12:43 PM
Sorry i wanted to say black hole , you can't have hyperspace that close to a black hole , and you can't dial the WH in hyperspace .

Nth Chevron
March 26th, 2011, 11:07 AM
Well it wouldnt technically be in hyperspace, just taken out of our space-time into a type of subspace just not hyperspace.

Kind of like DJ, Carter and Mitchell being out of phase thanks to the crystal skull and Merlins mantle respectively.

From those episodes we know even when a person IS out of phase they can still traverse Stargate wormholes.

N.C

webxro
March 26th, 2011, 11:27 AM
Yes but the intense gravity affects the subspace , remember when they couldn't contact Thor because he was inside the gravity well of a black hole .

garhkal
March 26th, 2011, 02:06 PM
If we had say over a dozen ZPMs and was able to get atlantis's wormhole drive up and running, i wonder how many we would deplete by getting to the destiny..

Nth Chevron
March 27th, 2011, 12:52 PM
Yes but the intense gravity affects the subspace , remember when they couldn't contact Thor because he was inside the gravity well of a black hole .

Gravity does affect subspace in a serious way.

The only reason it affected the prometheus in season 6 of SG-1 was because the gravity fried the power buffer of the Naquadriah cells, yet the ship remained in hyperspace with no ill effects that werent directly tied into the fried Naquad. cell buffer.

N.C

wingsabre
April 5th, 2011, 03:10 PM
I'm just wondering, but why not ask the Knox for help, specifically to deliver supplies to the people on Destiny. Tell them that we won't deliver weapons to the ship, just materials needed to keep them alive, and possibly bring them back. However, we can always send them raw materials to make weapons from.

garhkal
April 6th, 2011, 01:25 PM
And how would they make a difference?

sgc
April 6th, 2011, 08:58 PM
Considering that not even the asgards could counter the gravity and time dilation of a black hole .

And getting enough power to dial equals way to close to the gravity well .

The replicators did, or at least enough to get themselves away from the black hole. Yay! Time to accidentally repopulate the universe with replicators :P! ...again

Nth Chevron
April 7th, 2011, 06:01 AM
Destiny must have something to protect against the effects of gravity, Destiny's crew suffers little to no relativity problems when star-diving, consider the gravity and that close to the sun i would expect their Casio's to be out by a few minutes at least.

N.C

garhkal
April 7th, 2011, 03:25 PM
The replicators did, or at least enough to get themselves away from the black hole. Yay! Time to accidentally repopulate the universe with replicators :P! ...again

Cause iirc they used the time dilation device the Asgard used to trap them..

deltaCain054
April 18th, 2011, 07:05 AM
Could you combine a time dilation device with Destiny's FTL? Put everyone in cryo, repair the power systems and thing's necessary for Destiny to fly on it's own for a very long time, and let the ship do the rest. The ship can refuel itself from stars so wouldn't be as big an issue.
Even better thought, could you install a hyperdrive on Destiny, which powered by the stars should be able to travel much faster? Just plug more energy into the drive to go faster and stop at stars more often to refuel.

garhkal
April 18th, 2011, 04:30 PM
Maybe destinies systems are made to where it can;t interface with hyperdrives.. have we seen a single crystal tray? Which were very common in newer asgard/ancient tech (which is where most our hypering tech comes from)?

As to the time dilation/ftl? Dunno

Nth Chevron
April 20th, 2011, 03:04 AM
Traveller ships in Pegasus didnt use crystal tech in their hyperdrives.

Just lots of wires and mismatched components, kind of like what i imagined the Prometheus engine room to look like in Prometheus Unbound

N.C

Guyver1
August 10th, 2011, 04:50 AM
What about seeing if the priors have the knowledge to build supernates?
If they do build some then load them on to the sister city of Atlantis with zpms.
From Todd he didnt say who many he had but let's say six. Then use the wormhole drive to get to the edge of a galaxy put one on both sides of a galaxy do this till they run
Nearly out of power. Then land the city on a planet and use it as a supply line?

escyos
August 10th, 2011, 02:21 PM
What about seeing if the priors have the knowledge to build supernates?
If they do build some then load them on to the sister city of Atlantis with zpms.
From Todd he didnt say who many he had but let's say six. Then use the wormhole drive to get to the edge of a galaxy put one on both sides of a galaxy do this till they run
Nearly out of power. Then land the city on a planet and use it as a supply line?

the sister city of Atlantis is almost completely buried under the ground plus is not in any shape to fly anywhere, yet alone be fully powered.

caribsci
August 10th, 2011, 07:17 PM
Why not just take Ginn or Perry out of quarantine and ask them.Instead of asking important stuff while they had the chance.....they were thinking about trivial stuff.......humans........better off raising chickens.