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NinjaSnake
August 30th, 2010, 11:03 AM
Can anyone come up with an in universe explanation as to why Ra used human guards instead of Jaffa?

I've been thinking about this for a while and I can't think of anything.

webxro
August 30th, 2010, 11:12 AM
He gave humans a chance , or he didn't trust the jaffa or he was on vacation away from his wars

SaberBlade
August 30th, 2010, 11:32 AM
By surrounding himself with humans, he'd have instant access to hosts if needed. Plus it also kept his Jaffa free to do whatever was needed while he was on Abydos.

DB10
August 30th, 2010, 12:33 PM
Because there were a couple of differences between the series and the movie. The movie wasn't created by the same team as Stargate SG-1, but by Roland Emmerich. There are a couple of things that don't match the series and this is just one of them ;)

NinjaSnake
August 30th, 2010, 12:42 PM
Because there were a couple of differences between the series and the movie. The movie wasn't created by the same team as Stargate SG-1, but by Roland Emmerich. There are a couple of things that don't match the series and this is just one of them ;)

Yes I know that but I'm trying to find in universe explanations.

Why would Ra not trust his Jaffa though? As for him being around humans there were tons of humans on Abydos he could have used.

lordofseas
August 30th, 2010, 12:57 PM
You're not going to find a logical, in-universe answer. Think of the movie as a pilot to the show. Sometimes, ideas are changed in from a pilot to the actual show for plot sake.

P-90_177
August 30th, 2010, 01:54 PM
It's perfectly logical. Why use Jaffa when humans can be trained up to be just as good if need be and that way you have a host as back up. Ra was the most powerful system lord and I'm sure many of the others would have loved to bump him off so it would make sense to surround himself with humans to have plenty of options for alternate hosts if his life was in danger, and even better if a few of them were armed.
He possibly preffered humans purely as a sign of power to other human populations anyway. Afterall to humans Jaffa probably seemed like Demi-Gods all to themselves. A whole race of people who have been touched by the Gods. By making humans his body guards he's basically announcing to his human subjects "Look how powerful I can make YOU"

In other words......it's politics.

NinjaSnake
August 30th, 2010, 02:04 PM
It's perfectly logical. Why use Jaffa when humans can be trained up to be just as good if need be and that way you have a host as back up. Ra was the most powerful system lord and I'm sure many of the others would have loved to bump him off so it would make sense to surround himself with humans to have plenty of options for alternate hosts if his life was in danger, and even better if a few of them were armed.
He possibly preffered humans purely as a sign of power to other human populations anyway. Afterall to humans Jaffa probably seemed like Demi-Gods all to themselves. A whole race of people who have been touched by the Gods. By making humans his body guards he's basically announcing to his human subjects "Look how powerful I can make YOU"

In other words......it's politics.
The people on Abydos didn't know that Ra's guards were human though.

Humans also will not be as good as Jaffa because Jaffa are stronger and can heal quickly because of the symbiote.

P-90_177
August 30th, 2010, 02:46 PM
The people on Abydos didn't know that Ra's guards were human though.

Humans also will not be as good as Jaffa because Jaffa are stronger and can heal quickly because of the symbiote.

Yeah but keep in mind that Ra was just thinking he was going on a little cruise to visit one of his back water planets what would pose no resistance, probably deep within his own space. He never dreamed that he'd have to fight a small war so why bother taking Jaffa with him?

NinjaSnake
August 30th, 2010, 02:54 PM
Yeah but keep in mind that Ra was just thinking he was going on a little cruise to visit one of his back water planets what would pose no resistance, probably deep within his own space. He never dreamed that he'd have to fight a small war so why bother taking Jaffa with him?

Thats true but you would think he has lots of Jaffa if he is the most powerful system lord.

P-90_177
August 30th, 2010, 03:01 PM
And he did. Off fighting wars and conquering new territories. Hell his First Prime was possibly even leading a campaign while Ra did a little tour of his planets. You don't take an attack dog out for a walk in your back garden where you keep the rabbits.

webxro
August 31st, 2010, 05:24 AM
And he did. Off fighting wars and conquering new territories. Hell his First Prime was possibly even leading a campaign while Ra did a little tour of his planets. You don't take an attack dog out for a walk in your back garden where you keep the rabbits.

Nice idea with the dogs and all that

NinjaSnake
August 31st, 2010, 01:02 PM
I guess I can see that.

escyos
September 4th, 2010, 12:41 PM
from what we know, he had recently (~100 years) lost a huge battle against Apophis. Id say based on his ship (which was more of a luxury model), his human guards and the fact he came to Abydos to get naquadah that he was mostly defeated.

so his human guards was because he had no jaffa left.

Snowman37
September 7th, 2010, 05:38 AM
Can anyone come up with an in universe explanation as to why Ra used human guards instead of Jaffa? I've been thinking about this for a while and I can't think of anything.
In the movie, Ra's gaurds are human servents. In SG-1, they were retconned into Jaffa. There's your explanation.

StargateWatcher
September 7th, 2010, 01:20 PM
It's perfectly logical. Why use Jaffa when humans can be trained up to be just as good if need be and that way you have a host as back up. Ra was the most powerful system lord and I'm sure many of the others would have loved to bump him off so it would make sense to surround himself with humans to have plenty of options for alternate hosts if his life was in danger, and even better if a few of them were armed.
He possibly preffered humans purely as a sign of power to other human populations anyway. Afterall to humans Jaffa probably seemed like Demi-Gods all to themselves. A whole race of people who have been touched by the Gods. By making humans his body guards he's basically announcing to his human subjects "Look how powerful I can make YOU"

In other words......it's politics.

ingenious explanation!!


Yeah but keep in mind that Ra was just thinking he was going on a little cruise to visit one of his back water planets what would pose no resistance, probably deep within his own space. He never dreamed that he'd have to fight a small war so why bother taking Jaffa with him?
ingenious explanation too!!

Lunaeclipse
January 22nd, 2011, 02:33 AM
Because he was paranoid that the Abydonians would turn against him like they did on Earth. If he had Goa'uld and the Abydonians found out he would have to think of a way not to explain that he wasn't the only one...

He outlawed reading and writing so they would have no recollection of their true past so having Jaffa could undermine that...

But that's my way to link the movie to the series :)

D Toccs
January 22nd, 2011, 03:10 AM
Well, when we see Ra in Moebius, he does use Jaffa guards, so I think in the series universe, the guards he had during the Abydos incident were Jaffa.

The comment from O'Neill in Children of the Gods about "no they weren't alien, they were human" is easy to explain. Unless you actually saw a Jaffa without his shirt, you would just assume they were human.

We accept small discrepancies from the movie all the time. Ra was a small snake, not a 7 foot alien, O'Neill didn't add an extra L to his name after returning from Abydos ;), and the Stargate was always in Cheyenne Mountain.
I think this is just one of those little changes that we have to accept. The best in-universe explanation is that Ra's guards were Jaffa.

blueray
January 22nd, 2011, 11:45 AM
he probably wasn't expecting resistance from abydos, so his first prime was off somewhere else. and maybe he trusted human guards better. or as D Toccs said they could have been jaffa, o'neill won't have known the difference back then.

Hellraiser-89
January 22nd, 2011, 12:01 PM
By surrounding himself with humans, he'd have instant access to hosts if needed. Plus it also kept his Jaffa free to do whatever was needed while he was on Abydos.
This would be my guess. And since he was the most powerful System Lord, wouldn't that also make him more targeted by assassinations and such? By the other System Lords I mean.

Lunaeclipse
January 22nd, 2011, 01:33 PM
he probably wasn't expecting resistance from abydos, so his first prime was off somewhere else. and maybe he trusted human guards better. or as D Toccs said they could have been jaffa, o'neill won't have known the difference back then.

Ra was worried enough about a rebellion to outlaw reading and writing...

In the movie we saw the stomachs and there were no pouches... so they couldn't have been 'Jaffa' in that sense.

D Toccs
January 22nd, 2011, 04:27 PM
In the movie we saw the stomachs and there were no pouches... so they couldn't have been 'Jaffa' in that sense.

Yes, but in the movie O'Neill only had 1 L in his name and the Stargate wasn't in Cheyenne Mountain and Ra was shown to be a 7 foot alien. We have to accept that as far as the series canon goes, the events of the movie happened slightly differently.

When we actually saw Ra in the series, he was surrounded by Jaffa who wore the normal Jaffa uniforms. It's is safe to assume that in the series version of the movie's events, Ra was guarded by normal Jaffa wearing the normal uniforms. Which would cause O'Neill or anyone to assume they were human.

Lunaeclipse
January 22nd, 2011, 04:32 PM
Yes, but in the movie O'Neill only had 1 L in his name and the Stargate wasn't in Cheyenne Mountain and Ra was shown to be a 7 foot alien. We have to accept that as far as the series canon goes, the events of the movie happened slightly differently.

When we actually saw Ra in the series, he was surrounded by Jaffa who wore the normal Jaffa uniforms. It's is safe to assume that in the series version of the movie's events, Ra was guarded by normal Jaffa wearing the normal uniforms. Which would cause O'Neill or anyone to assume they were human.

Fair Comment. :)

However the question at hand is

'Can anyone come up with an in universe explanation as to why Ra used human guards instead of Jaffa?'

So I assumed they were talking about the movie version.

D Toccs
January 22nd, 2011, 04:53 PM
However the question at hand is

'Can anyone come up with an in universe explanation as to why Ra used human guards instead of Jaffa?'

So I assumed they were talking about the movie version.

Yeah that's what I was trying to do. It has to break down into 2 different universes, the movie and the series.

In-universe Movie explanation = The is no such thing as Jaffa.

In-universe Series explanation = They were Jaffa.

Lunaeclipse
January 22nd, 2011, 04:55 PM
Yeah that's what I was trying to do. It has to break down into 2 different universes, the movie and the series.

In-universe Movie explanation = The is no such thing as Jaffa.

In-universe Series explanation = They were Jaffa.

So we're talking two different universes instead of emcompassing it all in one universe (where possible)?

jelgate
January 22nd, 2011, 05:02 PM
So we're talking two different universes instead of emcompassing it all in one universe (where possible)?

Thats common. The show tweaked some things from the movie to make sense of the premise for SG1. Orginally Abydos was in another galaxy.

D Toccs
January 22nd, 2011, 05:10 PM
So we're talking two different universes instead of emcompassing it all in one universe (where possible)?

I am encompassing it all in 1 universe. You have to understand that the creators of the movie never intended to take it in the direction the series did, so some alterations and omissions have to be made in order to fit the movie into the series universe. So in the universe of the original movie's storyline Jaffa don't exist. But I assume that here we are only talking about the series universe.

We don't have to come up with in-universe explanations for why O'Neil only had 1 L or why Ra looked the way did. We just accept that O'Neill is spelt with 2 L's and Ra was a Goa'uld.
So to the matter of "an in universe explanation as to why Ra used human guards instead of Jaffa". My in universe explanation is that they were in fact Jaffa instead of Human. Despite the fact that we saw their stomachs and they had no pouch, that is just a hang over from the movie's original storyline.
In the storyline of the SG1/SGA/SGU franchise, Ra's guards were Jaffa. That's my answer.

Lunaeclipse
January 22nd, 2011, 05:25 PM
I am encompassing it all in 1 universe. You have to understand that the creators of the movie never intended to take it in the direction the series did, so some alterations and omissions have to be made in order to fit the movie into the series universe. So in the universe of the original movie's storyline Jaffa don't exist. But I assume that here we are only talking about the series universe.

We don't have to come up with in-universe explanations for why O'Neil only had 1 L or why Ra looked the way did. We just accept that O'Neill is spelt with 2 L's and Ra was a Goa'uld.
So to the matter of "an in universe explanation as to why Ra used human guards instead of Jaffa". My in universe explanation is that they were in fact Jaffa instead of Human. Despite the fact that we saw their stomachs and they had no pouch, that is just a hang over from the movie's original storyline.
In the storyline of the SG1/SGA/SGU franchise, Ra's guards were Jaffa. That's my answer.

:) I see your point... although, for me, some of the decrepencies between the movie and the series are easier to overlook than others... the two ls, the Tyler Charlie thing, and the Sha'uri/Sha're name change and a few others are easy to dismiss, but the obvious visual ones takes imagination to ignore...

For the most part the movie guards were 'Jaffa' in every way except for the symbiote thing... They had the uniforms, and the postion as 'slaves' to Ra, so I am not saying that they weren't similar...

I haven't watched Moebius for awhile so I will rewatch and re-evaluate... Thanks for the interesting disscussion. :)

D Toccs
January 22nd, 2011, 07:21 PM
Yeah, some of the discrepancies are easier to overlook then others. Ultimately it's up to each fan to decide what they accept and don't accept when it comes to fitting the movie into the series canon.

I remember a few years back when they made the re-imaged Children of the Gods, one of TPTB can't remember which, said that one of the ideas they had was to possibly do a re-imaging of the original movie.
That is something that I would have liked to see as a 3rd movie project rather then some random new storyline.

Aerilon
January 28th, 2011, 05:35 AM
Weren't the Jaffa 'altered' to have that pouch of theirs? I swear Humans used to all be alike at one point. That being the case, Ra probably decided he didn't need Jaffa solders, as the Human solders avaliable to him were more than adequate for their purpose?

Snowman37
January 28th, 2011, 05:49 AM
Sometimes, I feel like people think the original movie is an SG-1 episode that doesn't match up. Can anyone point out a movie continued as a TV series where the movie perfectly matches the subsequent series? I cannot name one.

Aerilon
January 28th, 2011, 06:24 AM
Sometimes, I feel like people think the original movie is an SG-1 episode that doesn't match up. Can anyone point out a movie continued as a TV series where the movie perfectly matches the subsequent series? I cannot name one.Star Trek? Granted the Enterprise was redesigned, but it followed suite.

Noxbait
January 28th, 2011, 03:06 PM
a bitty side note...I like to try to find ways to reconcile all of these little "differences" too.
one I solved to my satisfaction is that Sha'uri is the "maiden" name and it is changed to Sha're as a "married" name. There are cultures that tweak names like that when a woman is married and I content myself that the Abydonian culture was one of those! : )

Lunaeclipse
January 28th, 2011, 06:04 PM
a bitty side note...I like to try to find ways to reconcile all of these little "differences" too.
one I solved to my satisfaction is that Sha'uri is the "maiden" name and it is changed to Sha're as a "married" name. There are cultures that tweak names like that when a woman is married and I content myself that the Abydonian culture was one of those! : )


:) I like it :) Very 'ancient culture' like :)

blueray
January 29th, 2011, 05:33 AM
a bitty side note...I like to try to find ways to reconcile all of these little "differences" too.
one I solved to my satisfaction is that Sha'uri is the "maiden" name and it is changed to Sha're as a "married" name. There are cultures that tweak names like that when a woman is married and I content myself that the Abydonian culture was one of those! : )

i like that :).

NinjaSnake
January 29th, 2011, 02:14 PM
Wow it's been a long time since I posted here lol.

Pretty awesome answers.