Destiny Model Gate - Limits?

[AquaGamer53]

So there has been a lot of stuff on power requirements and if Destiny can gate back to Earth and if the Destiny gate is the oldest model, etc.

Well, from JM's blog and what has been said on the show, the Destiny style gates are the oldest model.

What I wonder, is what kind of problems that can lead to. The Milky Way gates (and Pegasus because they are the newest model) has fail-safes. Fail-safes like detecting whether or not it will go through a star, and if it is, will not dial until the orbit has changed (which the SGC learned the hard way).

Anyway, it seems like the fail-safes relied on the correlative update, which fixed stellar drift. So, does the Destiny style gate system account for these problems? Or is there a reason why it is the oldest model?

The crew can get into a lot of trouble with gating through stars, near black holes, etc. (Not to mention the possibility of the ship being affected by this kind of stuff).

Spoiler:

As we have seen in Time, solar flares are an issue still and Incursion has us flying by a Neutron star.

Any other ideas of problems that might arise from the gate being the oldest model?

(Sorry, I felt like I really rambled on in this post, lack of sleep to blame)

[jollyrogue]

This is good. Now i'm wondering what differences there are between the Destiny Gates and the MW Gates. (apart from the obvious visual differences.)

Range could be an issue. I think that Eli had to dial multiple gates to get to one side of the galaxy? Whereas i think MW gates can dial anywhere in the galaxy. So something in the MW gates allow for a larger range.
The ancients wouldn't have had to worry about this though since they would be dialling to and from the destiny.

[AquaGamer53]

Well, yeah, there are a whole bunch of issues with range. But the thing that I am curious about is that are there a lack of fail-safes with Destiny Gates? Even less then the SGC had because Carter's tampering? The Destiny itself might be able to get itself into a safe gateable position, but what about gating from planet to planet in the network the seeders created?

[jollyrogue]

We should also realise that the gate system was (i think) built for Destiny <> Planet Dialing and not Planet <> Planet Dialing like MW/PG. The Ancients wouldn't really have had need to do do Planet<>Planet as they could make sure the Destiny was always in range of the planet.

If we assume otherwise however, then i would guess that the Destiny Network would not be as sophisticated as the MW Network. I don't know how the ancients made the fail safes.. (did they program in coordinates of known bad areas, did they implement a system that checks what the wormhole is traveling through before allowing the connection? who knows :/)

Even then, the Destiny Network gates do not have their own DHDs** so i don't think they are capable of correlative updates... and again with the range... There's only a limited range, which means that there are only really a few gates within range of each other at one time.

[Puddle-Jumper]

Actually the limits of the gates could make for some interesting senarios.. remember back in the watergate episode, there was something about that the gate is able to tell if something is actually trying to come through the gate or not, e.g. water

But if they were running out of water and destiny brings them to a planet were the gate has become submerged for some reason and part of the ship could be flooded (like that time the Ha'tak crashed into the ocean), we saw in Atlantis that ancient technology can operate underwater, but then again Atlantis is infinitely more advanced then Destiny.... still though...

[AquaGamer53]

Actually the limits of the gates could make for some interesting senarios.. remember back in the watergate episode, there was something about that the gate is able to tell if something is actually trying to come through the gate or not, e.g. water

But if they were running out of water and destiny brings them to a planet were the gate has become submerged for some reason and part of the ship could be flooded (like that time the Ha'tak crashed into the ocean), we saw in Atlantis that ancient technology can operate underwater, but then again Atlantis is infinitely more advanced then Destiny.... still though...

Exactly, especially with the damage to Destiny, that could be a problem.

On another note though, what if Destiny style gates are not good for multiple dialings? I mean, they can last a long time, they're durable, but what if you dial them too much and they just burn out (like Orlan's mini-gate, which admittedly was built with Earth materials but still). These gates are the first model, not necessarily perfect because there where two later models. Could there be a time when the gate in Destiny's gate room just goes bad? Is there an extra in some unpressurized section of the ship, or does can Destiny repair it?

[Quadhelix]

On another note though, what if Destiny style gates are not good for multiple dialings? I mean, they can last a long time, they're durable, but what if you dial them too much and they just burn out (like Orlan's mini-gate, which admittedly was built with Earth materials but still).

Destiny's shield, FTL drives, and computers have survived millions of years of constant use. I don't see why the ship's Stargate should be any less durable, and it is used infrequently at best.

Therefore, Destiny's Stargate can (somewhat) reasonably be expect to outlast the ship itself.

[AquaGamer53]

Destiny's shield, FTL drives, and computers have survived millions of years of constant use. I don't see why the ship's Stargate should be any less durable, and it is used infrequently at best.

Therefore, Destiny's Stargate can (somewhat) reasonably be expect to outlast the ship itself.

Yeah, but that's after years of developing and using starships and shields. They took a ship to the milky way while the plans for stargates where just blueprints at the time. I'm sure the Destiny stargates were tested throughly, but being the first model and all, there might be a limit to it's durability. Also, the stargate on Destiny has been overloaded twice now while receiving wormholes from galaxies away.

[Quadhelix]

Yeah, but that's after years of developing and using starships and shields. They took a ship to the milky way while the plans for stargates where just blueprints at the time. I'm sure the Destiny stargates were tested throughly, but being the first model and all, there might be a limit to it's durability. Also, the stargate on Destiny has been overloaded twice now while receiving wormholes from galaxies away.

That is true, but only with qualifications.

Firstly, the Ancients were almost certainly developing new types of starships and shields during the development of their civilization. This is important to note because expertise making one type does not necessarily completely translate to making a different type. There would likely be commonalities, so they wouldn't be starting over from scratch, but it still slows the refinement process.

Secondly, certain developments that make shields and such more robust would also make Stargates more robust. For example, a good surge protector (or something) is going to be equally good at doing its job whether it is part of a shield generate or a Stargate.

Therefore, it can be seen that some improvements to a given technology might not carry over to future versions of that technology, while others will carry over to all other technologies, present and future. As a result, the difference between shield generators and Stargates will not be so great as you suggest.


Moreover, the Destiny's shield generators have been in almost constant use since the ship's launch: the ship spends much of its time in FTL, and would be destroyed if its shields dropped ("Earth"). The Stargate, on the other hand, is used infrequently at best - assuming that it was ever used at all before the current crew arrived.

[AquaGamer53]

That is true, but only with qualifications.

Firstly, the Ancients were almost certainly developing new types of starships and shields during the development of their civilization. This is important to note because expertise making one type does not necessarily completely translate to making a different type. There would likely be commonalities, so they wouldn't be starting over from scratch, but it still slows the refinement process.

Secondly, certain developments that make shields and such more robust would also make Stargates more robust. For example, a good surge protector (or something) is going to be equally good at doing its job whether it is part of a shield generate or a Stargate.

Therefore, it can be seen that some improvements to a given technology might not carry over to future versions of that technology, while others will carry over to all other technologies, present and future. As a result, the difference between shield generators and Stargates will not be so great as you suggest.


Moreover, the Destiny's shield generators have been in almost constant use since the ship's launch: the ship spends much of its time in FTL, and would be destroyed if its shields dropped ("Earth"). The Stargate, on the other hand, is used infrequently at best - assuming that it was ever used at all before the current crew arrived.

True, one advancement in a technology (shield tech) should help the other (stargate). Given their lack of use, all planet-side Destiny gates would probably outlast the world their on, despite their age. But because they seem more mechanical, they might break down more often. The whole ring spins, so what if some rock or animal got stuck in the spinning mechanism?

The gate on Destiny has even more issues, because it has been overloaded twice and it's integrated into the battered ship.

I mean, can a stargate break? Breakdown, need maintenance? Of all the things the ancients built, the stargates are the most durable, lasting testaments to their civilization, but even their newer outposts in the Milky Way and Pegasus Galaxies are falling apart. We'll have to see but just because the Destiny gates haven't been used/used infrequently doesn't mean they're going to work.

[jmoz]

Got two peeves or maybe more, would appreciate answers and forgive me if they've been addressed before.

I heard DHD's provide power to the gates, so what powers the seeded gates? It's been said the base powers them, some fans speculated this. And since those seeded gates have no DHD, they all have to rely on the one on Destiny. So with the Kino gameboy device thingie, is that like a wireless remote access to the Destiny's DHD? Does that have a range?

And what's the point of seeding gates if the Destiny is out of range and gone out of the galaxy? How will civilizations use those gates if there aren't any DHD's with their updates and no way to dial the device really without prior civilization's knowledge? What's the point of those seeded gates?

And another thing, Destiny apparently dropped out of FTL so that the Lucian Alliance can board. How come, when Eli and company dialed in Lost, Destiny didn't drop out of FTL?

[Mike.]

Got two peeves or maybe more, would appreciate answers and forgive me if they've been addressed before.

I heard DHD's provide power to the gates, so what powers the seeded gates? It's been said the base powers them, some fans speculated this. And since those seeded gates have no DHD, they all have to rely on the one on Destiny. So with the Kino gameboy device thingie, is that like a wireless remote access to the Destiny's DHD? Does that have a range?

From what I understand the remote interfaces with the gate and triggers the dialing sequence. The only necessary range is to reach the gate a few meters away. Both the power source and the dialing spinny mechanism would be inside the pedestal.

And what's the point of seeding gates if the Destiny is out of range and gone out of the galaxy? How will civilizations use those gates if there aren't any DHD's with their updates and no way to dial the device really without prior civilization's knowledge? What's the point of those seeded gates?

If the civilizations that discover the gates are advanced enough they can make a remote of their own. I don't think the Ancients wanted just about anyone to be able to use the gates at this point.

And another thing, Destiny apparently dropped out of FTL so that the Lucian Alliance can board. How come, when Eli and company dialed in Lost, Destiny didn't drop out of FTL?

Eli dialed using a standard 7 chevron address. These types of addresses use the symbols as coordinates - Destiny jumped into FTL and left the area - so the location Eli dialed was now empty space.

9 chevron addresses don't need a location, they work by (the following is speculation) sending a signal *everywhere* until it reaches Destiny's gate. A confirmation of this would be the huge power usage we saw in Air way before the wormhole was established. Destiny can receive this signal while in FTL and drop in normal space to accept the connection.

[Zatarc]

The thing that bothers me most about the Destiny Gates is how they dial i.e the whole gate moving to lock in Chevrons. It seems rather impractical, energy intensive and I imagine it also cause a lot more wear and tear also.

[Quadhelix]

The thing that bothers me most about the Destiny Gates is how they dial i.e the whole gate moving to lock in Chevrons. It seems rather impractical, energy intensive and I imagine it also cause a lot more wear and tear also.

10 seasons of SG-1, 5 seasons of Atlantis, 3 movies, and an animated spin-off, and you're just now realizing the problem of "dialing" the 'Gate?

Why did the inner ring in SG-1 have to move (I know that the off-world 'Gates didn't actually dial, bu always got the impression that that was more a limitation of the prop than anything else)? Why did the 'Gate in Atlantis have moving digital symbols?

Basically, it's one of the conceits of the franchise: engaging the Stargate requires spinning, and the more primitive the 'Gate, the more spinning you need.

[Gatefan1976]

10 seasons of SG-1, 5 seasons of Atlantis, 3 movies, and an animated spin-off, and you're just now realizing the problem of "dialing" the 'Gate?

Why did the inner ring in SG-1 have to move (I know that the off-world 'Gates didn't actually dial, bu always got the impression that that was more a limitation of the prop than anything else)? Why did the 'Gate in Atlantis have moving digital symbols?

Basically, it's one of the conceits of the franchise: engaging the Stargate requires spinning, and the more primitive the 'Gate, the more spinning you need.

Go back and watch 200, Puppet General Hammond explains why it spins, because it would be "cooler"