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kwlafayette
June 6th, 2010, 10:14 PM
Starting at the beginning:

Sending the lead scientist of the Icarus project on an undercover mission. There is simply no way that this should have happened. It is simply not done. So little prep for the mission, no training, not even clear what they hoped to accomplish, or who they hoped to catch. I mean, he literally just waltzed in there not even knowing the name of the contact, expecting everything to work out for the best.

Then Daniel, the guy with maybe the most experience on the planet, waits too long to radio the cavalry in, and they don't bring any helicopters, or 302s, or predator drones, or A-10s, or theor own cloaked vessel, or anything, just some guys in trucks. I mean, don't they work for the AIR FORCE? They could have just bombarded the site from orbit even. As soon as the car with Kiva shows up (the obvious leader), they should be moving in, with considerably more force.

And then the episode went downhill from there. One thing after another, each less believable than the last.

GateroomGuard
June 6th, 2010, 10:18 PM
Starting at the beginning:

Sending the lead scientist of the Icarus project on an undercover mission. There is simply no way that this should have happened. It is simply not done. So little prep for the mission, no training, not even clear what they hoped to accomplish, or who they hoped to catch. I mean, he literally just waltzed in there not even knowing the name of the contact, expecting everything to work out for the best.

Then Daniel, the guy with maybe the most experience on the planet, waits too long to radio the cavalry in, and they don't bring any helicopters, or 302s, or predator drones, or A-10s, or theor own cloaked vessel, or anything, just some guys in trucks. I mean, don't they work for the AIR FORCE? They could have just bombarded the site from orbit even. As soon as the car with Kiva shows up (the obvious leader), they should be moving in, with considerably more force.

And then the episode went downhill from there. One thing after another, each less believable than the last.

1. Young thought Rush was the mole at first which was why he allowed Rush.
2. The recession probably has effected Stargate operations budget.

J_schinderlin56
June 6th, 2010, 10:25 PM
The whole show makes no sense to me.

1. The Ancients send one of their most advanced ships (at the time) out into the great unknown, Unmanned? For anyone to find and capture.

2. There is no consistent launch timeline, Rush says hundreds of thousands of years, but the ship is less advanced than ancient tech that is 2 million years old.

3. If it was launched Millions of years ago then the Ancients never followed up on the mission over the course of MILLIONS of years. The writes say things like "they were busy with ascention" but there were regular non ascended ancients around until at least 10 thousand years ago. The ship would be pretty far out by then.

GateroomGuard
June 6th, 2010, 10:28 PM
All the talk about Rush's error on when Destiny was launched. I don't think he needed to be precise, he just needed to let everyone know the ship was freaking old.

J_schinderlin56
June 6th, 2010, 10:28 PM
Here's something that make no sense to me also:

Why the writers thought that we would enjoy a show about a bunch of people we don't like having arguments all the time. If I wanted to watch that I would just go to work.

Yak yak yak yak... This is Unbelievably boring.

GateroomGuard
June 6th, 2010, 10:31 PM
Here's something that make no sense to me also:

Why the writers thought that we would enjoy a show about a bunch of people we don't like having arguments all the time. If I wanted to watch that I would just go to work.

Yak yak yak yak... This is Unbelievably boring.

In the words of Luke Skywalker "I care". :)

J_schinderlin56
June 6th, 2010, 10:33 PM
In the words of Luke Skywalker "I care". :)

I'm just joking, I do care. But I do thing the show needs more action, and less annoying drama.

GateroomGuard
June 6th, 2010, 10:37 PM
I'm just joking, I do care. But I do thing the show needs more action, and less annoying drama.

Pretend when the characters are talking that their words are bullets. It will make it seem more actiony. :P

Avenger
June 6th, 2010, 10:41 PM
This show isn't going to be relying on action week after week. That's just the way it is.

Hundreds of thousands could be interpreted as a few million depending on how many hundred thousands you're dealing with. Plus, Rush just could have been wrong.

As for the OP, Young thought Rush might have been the mole given that he was coming forward with the sudden new information accusing Telford of being the mole. Allowing him to go and switch with Telford was the easiest way to kill two birds with one stone.

Jackson couldn't have made the call any sooner because he had to wait and see if Rush was going to be able to pass himself off as Telford. Had be made the call sooner, they have missed the chance to get a mole inside the LA. As far as picking Jackson to handle the job, Jack said he needed someone he could trust since he didn't know if anyone else was a brainwashed LA agent for all he knew.

PG15
June 6th, 2010, 10:44 PM
What makes no sense to me is how this thread, which is apparently about Subversion and the whole show is in the folder for Incursion Part 1.

Buck32
June 7th, 2010, 12:22 AM
Starting at the beginning:

Sending the lead scientist of the Icarus project on an undercover mission. There is simply no way that this should have happened. It is simply not done. So little prep for the mission, no training, not even clear what they hoped to accomplish, or who they hoped to catch. I mean, he literally just waltzed in there not even knowing the name of the contact, expecting everything to work out for the best.



Then Daniel, the guy with maybe the most experience on the planet, waits too long to radio the cavalry in, and they don't bring any helicopters, or 302s, or predator drones, or A-10s, or theor own cloaked vessel, or anything, just some guys in trucks. I mean, don't they work for the AIR FORCE? They could have just bombarded the site from orbit even. As soon as the car with Kiva shows up (the obvious leader), they should be moving in, with considerably more force.

And then the episode went downhill from there. One thing after another, each less believable than the last.


All very excellent points, but i also think it's incredibly daft of whoever is in charge of the LA to send them to a ship lost god only know's where when there's a high probablility they can't return.

Buck32
June 7th, 2010, 12:27 AM
Here's something that make no sense to me also:

Why the writers thought that we would enjoy a show about a bunch of people we don't like having arguments all the time. If I wanted to watch that I would just go to work.

Yak yak yak yak... This is Unbelievably boring.


There are some terribly annoying people on that ship for sure. Anyone else wish someone would shut up Camille Wray permanently. All she ever does is nip at Young's heels and get in the way, if i was Young i would have flushed her out an airlock or dumped her on planet way before now!!!

PG15
June 7th, 2010, 12:54 AM
Ok, seriously, just because we haven't been told why the LA want Destiny, doesn't mean there isn't a good reason. Have patience.

Werewolfhero
June 7th, 2010, 03:34 AM
Wondered why they didn't have any ships around that could track and stop the lucian ship that kidnapped Rush too. Let alone why they didn't just beam the reinforcements nearby.

The timeline seems very disjointed. Like they haven't decided exactly how far back in time they wanna go.

The SGU gate looks newer than the MW gate, being it has the illuminated address markers like the pegasus gates did, but they're supposed to be a much older model?

The saw inspired chair interface. Still even if it was from an older time period of the ancients, the way it interfaces just seems abit too out of character for them.

The Blue aliens obsession with Destiny. From the looks of it they're pretty much advanced enough to not need to worry about some stray badly damaged ship wandering aimlessly abouts the gallaxy.

The "magic" door openers. Theres no way they would've just made them. Which means they would've had to have either found similar technology somewhere, or Telford has an extremely good memory.

Leaving the other shuttle behind. Seems like a foolish idea even if it was badly damaged.

Not disconnecting Rush's stone and venting the gateroom's oxygen. First i'm pretty sure it was established in another ep that the stone auto-disconnects on gate travel. But even if that was forgotten, Young could've ordered rush to be disconnected for the original "vent the gateroom" plan to succeed.

If they know that the key to controlling destiny is the "ancient gene" why haven't they arranged for SGC to have those on atlantis to try and decipher it for them? Seems the Powers that be seem to be under-utilizing Atlantis' resources.

Only one ship to the lucian planet? Seriously, why not two or more, and why didnt they beam the pilots of those 302's out before jumping. It was said the underground chambers were what was shielded so why didnt they beam the pilots out?

Theres other things, but these are the abridged list of nonsensical things.

kwlafayette
June 7th, 2010, 07:05 AM
This show isn't going to be relying on action week after week. That's just the way it is.

Hundreds of thousands could be interpreted as a few million depending on how many hundred thousands you're dealing with. Plus, Rush just could have been wrong.

As for the OP, Young thought Rush might have been the mole given that he was coming forward with the sudden new information accusing Telford of being the mole. Allowing him to go and switch with Telford was the easiest way to kill two birds with one stone.

Jackson couldn't have made the call any sooner because he had to wait and see if Rush was going to be able to pass himself off as Telford. Had be made the call sooner, they have missed the chance to get a mole inside the LA. As far as picking Jackson to handle the job, Jack said he needed someone he could trust since he didn't know if anyone else was a brainwashed LA agent for all he knew.

Well, as a civilian with no training or experience in undercover work, you have to assume that is basically impossible. Letting go that they sent the most knowledgeable expert on the Ancients that they had, a guy who is not expendable, what they should have been after are prisoners. They could have taken them as soon as Rush got in that first car, and got some valuable prisoners right there.

carmencatalina
June 7th, 2010, 07:06 AM
You know what makes no sense? Why Rush changed his clothes in the middle of an invasion of the ship.

When he pops back into his body (in the infirmary) he is wearing the fatigues that Telford asked for (apparently, Telford doesn't like Rush's fashion sense).

By the end of the episode, he is back in his own clothes (obviously, he doesn't like Telford's fashion sense, returning the favor).

Now, I understanding wanting to be in your own clothes, but really? He wouldn't have just stayed in the fatigues, given how much stuff was going on?

Puddle-Jumper
June 7th, 2010, 07:15 AM
You know what makes no sense? Why Rush changed his clothes in the middle of an invasion of the ship.

When he pops back into his body (in the infirmary) he is wearing the fatigues that Telford asked for (apparently, Telford doesn't like Rush's fashion sense).

By the end of the episode, he is back in his own clothes (obviously, he doesn't like Telford's fashion sense, returning the favor).

Now, I understanding wanting to be in your own clothes, but really? He wouldn't have just stayed in the fatigues, given how much stuff was going on?

lol I was thinking that too, but thats kinda like Rush's signature look.. it'd be weird to see him in other clothes

And as to the OP.. Young only told O'Neill, he was keeping it as secret as possible because they don't know much about the comm stones so potentially that memory could have been from someone else using the stones, also Young didn't know how many people could have been comprimised.

and they didn't have the entire military there waiting for the LA because again, they didn't know how many moles were there, and plus they were meeting in a relatively populated place, so they couldn't just randomly send in loads and loads of troops and ships when theres a good chance someone would see. They sent Danial cos O'Neill trust him, and at some point Danial surely had training in weapons and all that jazz

And as for the timeline questions, the ship is millions of years old, and the Destiny gate is older then the MW gate and thus older then the pegasus gate. When Rush said hundreds of thousands it was just a mistake by the writers and one of them said in their blog that Rush was speaking off hand

The Magic Door openers that everyone seems to have a problem with.. guys seriously.. the door mechanism is metal.. and as we've seen the central thing turns when the door opens.. Anyone have an idea on how to build something to open them? maybe A MAGNET.. A stong magnet, that turns.. All telford would have to tell them is that and the rough size of the mechanism.

We don't know why the Blues are obsessed with Destiny, what we do know however is that there is a lot more to destiny then what we know so far

Venting the room I agree was probably the best thing to do, but when it comes down it that is just killing a load of people by pushing a switch, I can understand how someone may hesitate to do that.

As for the 302's perhaps there was interferance from the planet, like it was blowing up so its magnetic field was probably all messed up etc.

kwlafayette
June 7th, 2010, 07:17 AM
Ok, seriously, just because we haven't been told why the LA want Destiny, doesn't mean there isn't a good reason. Have patience.

That is something that I am maybe willing to wait for, a fairly interesting question. I only wish the setup had been better and more believable. The premise is just so promising, but it seems that it is also easy to screw up the writing.

And then there is this, from the transcript of the Incursion part 1:

(As Telford nods, Young's voice comes over the ship's comms.)

YOUNG: Lucian Alliance forces. You are surrounded and sealed in. You will also find the intel provided by Colonel Telford is now useless. Lay down your weapons in front of the doors and step back into the centre of the room with your hands on your heads, or we will vent the entire compartment to space.

KIVA (to Telford): Can they do it?

TELFORD: Yes.

After that, Kiva hands Telford a gun, after basically being told that he has given up their whole mission. She killed that scientist back on the icarus planet for less than that.

xxxevilgrinxxx
June 7th, 2010, 08:26 AM
What makes no sense to me is how this thread, which is apparently about Subversion and the whole show is in the folder for Incursion Part 1.I know, I had to check which forum I was in *eyeroll*


Ok, seriously, just because we haven't been told why the LA want Destiny, doesn't mean there isn't a good reason. Have patience.The LA storyline has been in place from the very first episode, so it's pretty clear that the writers aren't serving us up something that's going to be concluded in one episode. It's not like we haven't been through 19 episodes of the same kind of storytelling - not episodic - so why it should come as a surprise or be all Captain Expositiony now, I don't get.


lol I was thinking that too, but thats kinda like Rush's signature look.. it'd be weird to see him in other clothes Rush always seems to want to get out of those fatigues...funnily enough, when someone stoned into Rush's body, they wanted to get INTO fatigues. Maybe this is a writer's quirk and one of those things we're supposed to be amused at?


And as to the OP.. Young only told O'Neill, he was keeping it as secret as possible because they don't know much about the comm stones so potentially that memory could have been from someone else using the stones, also Young didn't know how many people could have been comprimised. I think a lot of what have been deemed "problems" about this come down to this one thing, that there is no idea who can be trusted and who can't and limiting who does what. If everybody knows everything then you have no idea of tracking down who let information slip.


and they didn't have the entire military there waiting for the LA because again, they didn't know how many moles were there, and plus they were meeting in a relatively populated place, so they couldn't just randomly send in loads and loads of troops and ships when theres a good chance someone would see. They sent Danial cos O'Neill trust him, and at some point Danial surely had training in weapons and all that jazzIf the LA are like criminals anywhere, they'd spot that. Plus, you would risk having other people spot it and have civilians stumble in. Daniel can be trusted by O'Neill so it makes sense that Daniel went.


The Magic Door openers that everyone seems to have a problem with.. guys seriously.. the door mechanism is metal.. and as we've seen the central thing turns when the door opens.. Anyone have an idea on how to build something to open them? maybe A MAGNET.. A stong magnet, that turns.. All telford would have to tell them is that and the rough size of the mechanism.I'm starting to think this is just one of those things that some people are just jumping on to pile on. What were they supposed to bring? Crowbars? A big set of keys and hope? They're criminals; it's not too far fetched that they'd be adept at getting through a lock.


Venting the room I agree was probably the best thing to do, but when it comes down it that is just killing a load of people by pushing a switch, I can understand how someone may hesitate to do that.Yep, venting the room would have ended the episode before the first commercial aired. End result? Lots of people yelling that it was too easy. If he'd vented the room and killed Rush/Telford? Oh, he's a monster! If he doesn't vent the room and saves a life (or two), he's now incompetent? It's pretty easy to make a bad call when you don't have a hell of a lot of choices to choose from.

I think some people try so hard to not like this show that it amazes me that they still watch at all. There's got to be something else on the TV.

Lahela
June 7th, 2010, 08:53 AM
Ok, seriously, just because we haven't been told why the LA want Destiny, doesn't mean there isn't a good reason. Have patience.

There you go with that logic again! :p


You know what makes no sense? Why Rush changed his clothes in the middle of an invasion of the ship.


I suspect it was just a continuity glitch - wouldn't be the first one we've seen in the franchise and I doubt they would have actually written a direction like "Rush runs out of infirmary but stops on way to get changed". ;)

Krazeh
June 7th, 2010, 09:26 AM
Surely the answer to the thread title is simply "kwlafayette"? He's made a number of posts where, despite the necessary information having being provided in the show, he comes up with nonsensical theories amidst claims that the writing is bad or the show makes no sense.

There was more than enough information given in Subversion about both issues to allow anyone to understand why what happened did so in the manner it did. Not to mention there's been numerous situations in both SG1 and SGA where people we're being tailed for us to know how the SGC operates in those sorts of situations.

xxxevilgrinxxx
June 7th, 2010, 09:45 AM
Surely the answer to the thread title is simply "kwlafayette"? He's made a number of posts where, despite the necessary information having being provided in the show, he comes up with nonsensical theories amidst claims that the writing is bad or the show makes no sense.

There was more than enough information given in Subversion about both issues to allow anyone to understand why what happened did so in the manner it did. Not to mention there's been numerous situations in both SG1 and SGA where people we're being tailed for us to know how the SGC operates in those sorts of situations.

LOL, I really was trying to avoid that, but...yeah :)

dgh64
June 7th, 2010, 09:55 AM
The Magic Door openers that everyone seems to have a problem with.. guys seriously.. the door mechanism is metal.. and as we've seen the central thing turns when the door opens.. Anyone have an idea on how to build something to open them? maybe A MAGNET.. A stong magnet, that turns.. All telford would have to tell them is that and the rough size of the mechanism.

As I said in another thread... yes, the visible part of the mechanism is a round metal thing that turns. But do you really think that's all there is to it? For example, there's some sort of motor that makes it open/close when you press the button on the wall. You can also open/close/lock/unlock doors from the control room. So there's also a bolt or something that slides in and out to keep it from turning. One would assume that a LOCK would be robust enough to keep the door... you know... locked. The Ancients were pretty smart. I can't imagine them ever saying, "Don't worry, Sir, I locked the door... wait! They've got magnets! Oh no!"

PG15
June 7th, 2010, 10:27 AM
As I said in another thread... yes, the visible part of the mechanism is a round metal thing that turns. But do you really think that's all there is to it? For example, there's some sort of motor that makes it open/close when you press the button on the wall. You can also open/close/lock/unlock doors from the control room. So there's also a bolt or something that slides in and out to keep it from turning. One would assume that a LOCK would be robust enough to keep the door... you know... locked. The Ancients were pretty smart. I can't imagine them ever saying, "Don't worry, Sir, I locked the door... wait! They've got magnets! Oh no!"

So what? We can pick locks plenty easy on Earth.

Why can't space pirates pick space locks just as easily?


Well, as a civilian with no training or experience in undercover work, you have to assume that is basically impossible. Letting go that they sent the most knowledgeable expert on the Ancients that they had, a guy who is not expendable, what they should have been after are prisoners. They could have taken them as soon as Rush got in that first car, and got some valuable prisoners right there.

I'm pretty sure Daniel has had some undercover work during the run of SG1. I mean, obviously he's had surveillance and, uh, hiding experience running around all those Goa'uld compounds while trying to remain hidden, and then there was that time he and Carter staked out Ba'al in Ex Deus Machina.

After 10 years fighting bad guys across the galaxy you'd think the guy would be pretty good at stuff like this. And then there is the extra bonus reason of being one of the only people whom O'Neill trusts at that point.



After that, Kiva hands Telford a gun, after basically being told that he has given up their whole mission. She killed that scientist back on the icarus planet for less than that.

1. We don't know how long that scientist has been disappointing her, or indeed anything else about him, or her.

2. With her strike force significantly reduced in numbers, she'll need as many people as she can get.


Wondered why they didn't have any ships around that could track and stop the lucian ship that kidnapped Rush too. Let alone why they didn't just beam the reinforcements nearby.

I guess no Earth ships were nearby, and plus the LA ship can cloak.

EDIT: And plus:


O'NEILL: Daniel, come in. Do you read?

JACKSON: Jack, what is it?

O'NEILL (from the Pentagon): Carter says they're using some kind of jamming device. We can't get a lock on anyone in the area. What's your status?

JACKSON: They've stopped. Looks like we're waiting on someone.

Yeah, so that explains the lack of beaming.


The timeline seems very disjointed. Like they haven't decided exactly how far back in time they wanna go.

This I'll admit as being in a state of flux. Hopefully the writers can provide an answer sooner or later.


The SGU gate looks newer than the MW gate, being it has the illuminated address markers like the pegasus gates did, but they're supposed to be a much older model?

Um, they're lights. I don't think having symbols lighting up or not really denotes a specific time period. They already have chevrons that can light up anyway, how hard can it be to put a lightbulb behind the a gate glyph as well?

I mean, if the people behind building the prop gate for the show can do it, I'm sure the Ancients could too. ;)


The saw inspired chair interface. Still even if it was from an older time period of the ancients, the way it interfaces just seems abit too out of character for them.

In the last few hundred years humans have had chairs of various styles for various purposes. We can only assume that the Ancients aren't that different.

Plus, you'd need constraints if moving your head at all could cause brain damage.


The Blue aliens obsession with Destiny. From the looks of it they're pretty much advanced enough to not need to worry about some stray badly damaged ship wandering aimlessly abouts the gallaxy.

Unless the obsession has nothing to do with technology...


The "magic" door openers. Theres no way they would've just made them. Which means they would've had to have either found similar technology somewhere, or Telford has an extremely good memory.

So...this does make sense then, since you provided perfectly valid explanations?


Leaving the other shuttle behind. Seems like a foolish idea even if it was badly damaged.

It'll give those left on the planet a chance.


Not disconnecting Rush's stone and venting the gateroom's oxygen. First i'm pretty sure it was established in another ep that the stone auto-disconnects on gate travel.

Which episode establishes that?


But even if that was forgotten, Young could've ordered rush to be disconnected for the original "vent the gateroom" plan to succeed.

Well, that still means killing Telford.

But that discussion has already been raging for a while in other threads, so I won't go further here.


If they know that the key to controlling destiny is the "ancient gene" why haven't they arranged for SGC to have those on atlantis to try and decipher it for them? Seems the Powers that be seem to be under-utilizing Atlantis' resources.

How do you know they haven't done exactly that?

I mean, we didn't know until "Earth" that, uh, Earth has been working on a plan to get Destiny home, and yet there they were.


Only one ship to the lucian planet? Seriously, why not two or more,

Maybe they were unavailable. Time was of the essence.


and why didnt they beam the pilots of those 302's out before jumping. It was said the underground chambers were what was shielded so why didnt they beam the pilots out?

Not enough time. In the few seconds it would've taken to beam those people out, the planet could've exploded taking the Hammond with it.

And that's bad.

carmencatalina
June 7th, 2010, 10:35 AM
I suspect it was just a continuity glitch - wouldn't be the first one we've seen in the franchise and I doubt they would have actually written a direction like "Rush runs out of infirmary but stops on way to get changed". ;)

I would say yes, but they've been very good about stuff like this in the past. For example, Telford got smacked around and has a pretty livid bruise on his cheek at the end of Subversion.

Once Rush and Telford body switch in Incursion I, Rush has the bruise (it is very evident in the scene with TJ in the infirmary, when he is still in the fatigues, but you can also see it clearly later, when he is back in his regular clothes).

Since they bothered to do the bruise makeup, I'm assuming the change of clothes was also intentional.

Weird, but intentional. Maybe Rush just really doesn't like fatigues.

And then there is a slightly yuckier explanation (in spoilers for the delicate of constitution):

When a person dies or is dying, they often lose control of their bodily function, urinating or defecating. That's just part of the process when all of the involuntary muscle control is lost. Since Telford basically died in Rush's body, those fatigues could have easily been not fit to be worn. But that is maybe just a bit too much realism!

dgh64
June 7th, 2010, 11:22 AM
So what? We can pick locks plenty easy on Earth.

Why can't space pirates pick space locks just as easily?

I'm not saying the LA shouldn't be able to pick Destiny's locks. All I'm saying is that it's way more complicated than just "use a magnet" like a couple people keep suggesting. Even more complicated than picking the lock on your front door -- there are electronics involved.

Lahela
June 7th, 2010, 11:24 AM
I would say yes, but they've been very good about stuff like this in the past. For example, Telford got smacked around and has a pretty livid bruise on his cheek at the end of Subversion.

Once Rush and Telford body switch in Incursion I, Rush has the bruise (it is very evident in the scene with TJ in the infirmary, when he is still in the fatigues, but you can also see it clearly later, when he is back in his regular clothes).

Since they bothered to do the bruise makeup, I'm assuming the change of clothes was also intentional.

Weird, but intentional. Maybe Rush just really doesn't like fatigues.

And then there is a slightly yuckier explanation (in spoilers for the delicate of constitution):

When a person dies or is dying, they often lose control of their bodily function, urinating or defecating. That's just part of the process when all of the involuntary muscle control is lost. Since Telford basically died in Rush's body, those fatigues could have easily been not fit to be worn. But that is maybe just a bit too much realism!

Maybe I'm just grasping at straws in the hope that they did it accidentally, but with different departments running wardrobe, hair, make-up etc it can happen (have you seen SGA's Condemned? Watch Ronon's hair next time!). Your spoilered for delicacy idea could well be on the money though! Stomach churning, but on the money! LOL!

PG15
June 7th, 2010, 12:12 PM
I'm not saying the LA shouldn't be able to pick Destiny's locks. All I'm saying is that it's way more complicated than just "use a magnet" like a couple people keep suggesting. Even more complicated than picking the lock on your front door -- there are electronics involved.

Ah ok.

Yeah, it was probably more complicated than just magnets. Still, we don't want to underestimate them (the LA, not the magnets).

I would also like to apologize for that comment you quoted. Reading it again just now made me realize how aggressive it seems. Sorry! :o

Puddle-Jumper
June 7th, 2010, 12:16 PM
As I said in another thread... yes, the visible part of the mechanism is a round metal thing that turns. But do you really think that's all there is to it? For example, there's some sort of motor that makes it open/close when you press the button on the wall. You can also open/close/lock/unlock doors from the control room. So there's also a bolt or something that slides in and out to keep it from turning. One would assume that a LOCK would be robust enough to keep the door... you know... locked. The Ancients were pretty smart. I can't imagine them ever saying, "Don't worry, Sir, I locked the door... wait! They've got magnets! Oh no!"

Yes doors can be locked from the control room, so theres probably a a dead lock in place, even still just like in a regular door, all the components are going to be connected to each other, so you move one in the right direction they all move.. plus as others have been saying the LA are professional criminals.... of course they are excellent at picking locks... and its hardly just a regular magnet... space aged gould magnet that probably at some stage was lifted from ancient tech. Basically that magnets are the basis of the device they used

Avenger
June 7th, 2010, 01:14 PM
I'm pretty sure Daniel has had some undercover work during the run of SG1. I mean, obviously he's had surveillance and, uh, hiding experience running around all those Goa'uld compounds while trying to remain hidden, and then there was that time he and Carter staked out Ba'al in Ex Deus Machina.

He went undercover with the weird alien pheromone that made everyone think they knew him to find out about Anubis. Forget the episode, but he was definitely undercover.

Coronach
June 7th, 2010, 01:21 PM
He went undercover with the weird alien pheromone that made everyone think they knew him to find out about Anubis. Forget the episode, but he was definitely undercover.

Was that the same episode that he went undercover as Yu's slave in that summit meeting of the Goa'uld system lords? If not, then there's yet another instance of undercover experience.

SantaSlayer
June 7th, 2010, 01:22 PM
Starting at the beginning:

Sending the lead scientist of the Icarus project on an undercover mission. There is simply no way that this should have happened. It is simply not done. So little prep for the mission, no training, not even clear what they hoped to accomplish, or who they hoped to catch. I mean, he literally just waltzed in there not even knowing the name of the contact, expecting everything to work out for the best.


Then Daniel, the guy with maybe the most experience on the planet, waits too long to radio the cavalry in, and they don't bring any helicopters, or 302s, or predator drones, or A-10s, or theor own cloaked vessel, or anything, just some guys in trucks. I mean, don't they work for the AIR FORCE? They could have just bombarded the site from orbit even. As soon as the car with Kiva shows up (the obvious leader), they should be moving in, with considerably more force.

And then the episode went downhill from there. One thing after another, each less believable than the last.

LOL! A-10's just destroying the place just to stop a meeting.

MattSilver 3k
June 7th, 2010, 01:25 PM
Was that the same episode that he went undercover as Yu's slave in that summit meeting of the Goa'uld system lords? If not, then there's yet another instance of undercover experience.

Actually it was two episodes. Season five - Summit and Last Stand.

Ended badly for all parties involved, though not for the lack of trying on DJ's part.

PG15
June 7th, 2010, 01:26 PM
He went undercover with the weird alien pheromone that made everyone think they knew him to find out about Anubis. Forget the episode, but he was definitely undercover.

Right! There's that too. The episode is Last Stand, and that's also the one Coronach is thinking of.

EDIT: DAMMIT NINJA'D

MattSilver 3k
June 7th, 2010, 01:29 PM
EDIT: DAMMIT NINJA'D

Yes. Yes you were.

I shall now enjoy my victory like the ninja I am... Muwahaha.

Ha.

JustAnotherVoice
June 7th, 2010, 01:41 PM
There are some terribly annoying people on that ship for sure. Anyone else wish someone would shut up Camille Wray permanently. All she ever does is nip at Young's heels and get in the way, if i was Young i would have flushed her out an airlock or dumped her on planet way before now!!!

I'm hoping for an outtake when the S1 DVD comes out, where Wray is nagging Young, and he does his best Adama "frak you! Airlock the skinjob, now!"

xxxevilgrinxxx
June 7th, 2010, 03:11 PM
I'm hoping for an outtake when the S1 DVD comes out, where Wray is nagging Young, and he does his best Adama "frak you! Airlock the skinjob, now!"

I can't see Young watering that down to frak :)
It always gets cut away or he stops himself before actually swearing, to please tv censors, but from the amount of times he gets right up close to it, I think Young would say the real thing :)

kwlafayette
June 10th, 2010, 01:22 AM
I'm pretty sure Daniel has had some undercover work during the run of SG1. I mean, obviously he's had surveillance and, uh, hiding experience running around all those Goa'uld compounds while trying to remain hidden, and then there was that time he and Carter staked out Ba'al in Ex Deus Machina.



Well, I guess they would maybe have been fine then, if they had sent Daniel to infiltrate the Lucian Alliance. But they didn't send Daniel, they sent Rush. Rush had no chance of success, no training, no experience, nothing. Rush, who is the lead scientist of the project that landed them on the far side of the universe. Rush who is actually physically resident on the Destiny. Rush, who has more valuable information to give up, than he could ever hope to gain in some half baked scheme to infiltrate the Lucian Alliance.

Avenger
June 10th, 2010, 02:40 AM
The only reason Rush went was because he was in Telford's body and had specific memories of Telford meeting with the LA. Plus, Young still thought Rush might have been the mole. And while we know with hindsight that Rush was unsuccessful, that doesn't mean that there was no chance of it working.

Daniel never would have been able to infiltrate the LA. I suspect he's too well known.

magictrick
June 10th, 2010, 12:14 PM
Its Stargate, and also its Sci-Fi. It has never had a reputation for smooth story lines without plot holes. If you've watched any SG-1 or SGA you should be well aware that these types of "things that make no sense" happen quite often. You gotta enjoy it for what it is, or just not watch it.

Also the events referenced are from Subversion, not Incursion Part 1.

s09119
June 10th, 2010, 12:20 PM
I have yet to see someone point out something "nonsensical" in this thread, but I'll keep my eyes peeled.

Ukko
June 10th, 2010, 12:20 PM
1. Young thought Rush was the mole at first which was why he allowed Rush.
2. The recession probably has effected Stargate operations budget.

Sorry, cant fight aliens anymore. We've run out of money:D

xxxevilgrinxxx
June 10th, 2010, 12:48 PM
Its Stargate, and also its Sci-Fi. It has never had a reputation for smooth story lines without plot holes. If you've watched any SG-1 or SGA you should be well aware that these types of "things that make no sense" happen quite often. You gotta enjoy it for what it is, or just not watch it.

Also the events referenced are from Subversion, not Incursion Part 1.yes, this exactly.
If we wanted to get out the white gloves and magnifying glass, we could easily spot plot holes in a gagillion things we see. Or we could enjoy a thing for what it is, and let the writers take us where they want to take us


Sorry, cant fight aliens anymore. We've run out of money:D
aliens are never as neat as bad old everyday humans can be :)

kwlafayette
June 10th, 2010, 05:27 PM
Sorry, cant fight aliens anymore. We've run out of money:D

Funny.

fmbchris
June 10th, 2010, 08:12 PM
Rush is the ultimate sci-fi badass. just wait. nothing speaks louder than stepping up to the task! rush is a go too guy and has had enough loss, doesnt take crap from anyone! lotsa alpha conflict in this show! kudos!

jmoz
June 11th, 2010, 01:42 AM
I have something that doesn't make sense to me so far in the show. Feel free to clarify for me.

What powers the gates left on the seeded planets?

How can they dial other gates if there is no DHD (so far I haven't seen a DHD on Air part 3, Water, and Time from some of the pics on Gateworld, feel free to verify or disprove)? How can they know the addresses?

Addressing the two previous questions, I sorta gathered that the Kinos act as a sort of wireless connection to the DHD on the Destiny? They have potential gate addresses and can use the Kinos to dial out. If the Destiny was out of dialing range during that whole three stooges left behind thing, the Kinos could still access the gate addresses and could dial out to the other gates using Destiny's DHD? So the connection range to the DHD is larger than the range of the gates themselves. So does that mean the gates have limited power capabilities?

What happens when Destiny is completely out of range and out of a galaxy where planets were seeded with gates? Can anyone dial other gates without a DHD? Don't they need dialing crystals for them to work at all? Or work up some computer program like the SGC with some known gate information. But the newly seeded planets have no information on the gates. So what's the point of seeding planets if there is no way to work them without a DHD or prior knowledge to draw upon?

Again, just something I see as inconsistent/plot hole, you may not see it that way and feel free to enlighten me.

Avenger
June 11th, 2010, 03:26 AM
The power source is in the base. There are no DHDs. The Kino remotes are capable of connecting to the gate and receiving a list of gates that are with in range. And yes, the gates on the planets seem to be limited by the power sources.

Don't know what will happen with the ship if it reaches the end of the line. I think the reason that there were no DHDs was to prevent anyone on the planets from using them. The Ancients wouldn't want random aliens randomly being able to use the gates the get on the ship.

dgh64
June 11th, 2010, 06:42 AM
The way I understand it, the Milky Way and Pegasus gates needed a DHD both to act as an external power source and to provide buttons for dialing, because they were advanced enough that they could connect anywhere in the galaxy. A DHD from the Destiny-era gates would probably have about 4 or 5 buttons on it that said "planet 1", "planet 2", etc. because each gate can only dial a short distance because they're less advanced. They don't need nearly as much power to go such a short distance, the the power source is built into the base.