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Buck32
June 6th, 2010, 05:57 PM
Who else finds this whole LA plot a little too convenient? i mean first we have the communication stones, and now the LA just happen to find another Icarus type planet and dial to the destiny, it's like TPTB have run out of original ideas and just thought oh well let's just chuck something together with the LA, who for mine have always been a minor threat anyway.

Personally i would have liked to have seen some kind of encounter with the blue aliens or just about anything else.

thoughts??

s09119
June 6th, 2010, 06:01 PM
Who else finds this whole LA plot a little too convenient? i mean first we have the communication stones, and now the LA just happen to find another Icarus type planet and dial to the destiny, it's like TPTB have run out of original ideas and just thought oh well let's just chuck something together with the LA, who for mine have always been a minor threat anyway.

Personally i would have liked to have seen some kind of encounter with the blue aliens or just about anything else.

thoughts??

Yeah, because another run-in with some alien race is so less original than a conglomerate of smugglers and con artists rising to power and challenging the galactic superpower.

Anyway, I love the new take on the Lucian Alliance. They actually have brains, unlike most other bad guys in Stargate. And how is their finding another Icarus-type planet "convenient"? They found the first one, after all, and they have scouts and spies combing the galaxy.

Avenger
June 6th, 2010, 06:01 PM
Technically, everything boils down to being a plot of convenience. It would be just as convenient for the blue aliens to show up too.

Phenom
June 6th, 2010, 06:03 PM
Well all plots are convenient aren't they, since they are conceived by a writer.

Its possible that the LA have been searching for an Icarus type planet for years. It doesn't appear as though they found it over a weekend.

Buck32
June 6th, 2010, 06:12 PM
Yeah let's not invent some new enemy let's just crank out an old tired one from the SG1 days. and it's probably more likely for the blue aliens to show up given relatively speaking they're closer to the destiny than the LA.

GateroomGuard
June 6th, 2010, 06:14 PM
It's not convenience... it's Destiny!

Avenger
June 6th, 2010, 06:19 PM
Yeah let's not invent some new enemy let's just crank out an old tired one from the SG1 days. and it's probably more likely for the blue aliens to show up given relatively speaking they're closer to the destiny than the LA.

How can a barely developed, hardly used side enemy from a one season of SG-1 be tired? If anything, we're seeing a much more competent LA in this series.

s09119
June 6th, 2010, 06:25 PM
Yeah let's not invent some new enemy let's just crank out an old tired one from the SG1 days. and it's probably more likely for the blue aliens to show up given relatively speaking they're closer to the destiny than the LA.

With the stargate network up and running, you could actually argue that the Lucian Alliance is closer. They're only a gate away, while the blue aliens are, as far as we know, still searching the intergalactic void for the ship.


It's not convenience... it's Destiny!

That was genius :D

GateroomGuard
June 6th, 2010, 06:28 PM
That was genius :D

I am a Grand Cleric in the Order of Riley.

PG15
June 6th, 2010, 06:38 PM
Just so we're all clear, the LA has been with the series since "Air". This is very much the payoff to the initial Icarus attack.

xxxevilgrinxxx
June 6th, 2010, 07:11 PM
Yeah, because another run-in with some alien race is so less original than a conglomerate of smugglers and con artists rising to power and challenging the galactic superpower.

Anyway, I love the new take on the Lucian Alliance. They actually have brains, unlike most other bad guys in Stargate. And how is their finding another Icarus-type planet "convenient"? They found the first one, after all, and they have scouts and spies combing the galaxy.Intelligent criminals make wonderful bad guys :)


Technically, everything boils down to being a plot of convenience. It would be just as convenient for the blue aliens to show up too.*nods* yep, it wouldn't matter what got put in there, it's all pretty convenient


Yeah let's not invent some new enemy let's just crank out an old tired one from the SG1 days. and it's probably more likely for the blue aliens to show up given relatively speaking they're closer to the destiny than the LA.they may very well have been old and tired in the previous series. They're neither old nor tired in SGU however.


Just so we're all clear, the LA has been with the series since "Air". This is very much the payoff to the initial Icarus attack.Exactly, this is a plot thread that's been in the works for this entire season. It would be weird if it DIDN'T finish up, wouldn't it?

magictrick
June 6th, 2010, 07:53 PM
I wasn't a fan of involving the Lucian Alliance at first either. But Incursion Part 1 did crank things up a notch and I thought it was decently done. The new take on LA is a lot better than what it was in SG-1 that's for sure.

kwlafayette
June 6th, 2010, 08:15 PM
The LA are just another hackneyed bad guy group. Kiva just up and kills that scientist, for no particular reason, and a line of new scientists forms on the left to go to work for her. That makes no sense now does it? Obviously, the first thing you think when you hear about that is, "I wonder if she will kill me". If I was a scientist working for Kiva, I would be thinking of ways to go into hiding. Also equally obvious at that point, Rush knew he was never getting out of there alive.

The plain and simple fact is, with leaders like Kiva, there would be no more Lucien Alliance. If you are some lackey, and you see Kiva killing off other lackeys every week, how long do you stick around? Does word not get around? How does she find new lackeys after the first ten thousand die by her own hand? Everyone would have abandoned her by now, and no one new would go to work for her.

And TJ, about to get ganked in the gate room. Obviously, as soon as the first hostage is killed, you know there is no point in talking anymore; everyone is going to die unless you do something, inaction becomes the same as murder at that point. Brutality does not make people loyal, it may make people do what you want for a time. All mindless brutality does is give you a choice of dying on your knees, or dying on your feet. At least if you have a choice of living on your knees, there might be something to think about.

Initially I thought this series was promising, but less and less is making sense. The writing is just terrible. This is worse than what Lucas and Spielberg did to Indy. The more they develop characters, the less those characters make sense.

s09119
June 6th, 2010, 08:25 PM
The LA are just another hackneyed bad guy group. Kiva just up and kills that scientist, for no particular reason, and a line of new scientists forms on the left to go to work for her. That makes no sense now does it? Obviously, the first thing you think when you hear about that is, "I wonder if she will kill me". If I was a scientist working for Kiva, I would be thinking of ways to go into hiding. Also equally obvious at that point, Rush knew he was never getting out of there alive.

The plain and simple fact is, with leaders like Kiva, there would be no more Lucien Alliance. If you are some lackey, and you see Kiva killing off other lackeys every week, how long do you stick around? Does word not get around? How does she find new lackeys after the first ten thousand die by her own hand? Everyone would have abandoned her by now, and no one new would go to work for her.

And TJ, about to get ganked in the gate room. Obviously, as soon as the first hostage is killed, you know there is no point in talking anymore; everyone is going to die unless you do something, inaction becomes the same as murder at that point. Brutality does not make people loyal, it may make people do what you want for a time. All mindless brutality does is give you a choice of dying on your knees, or dying on your feet. At least if you have a choice of living on your knees, there might be something to think about.

Initially I thought this series was promising, but less and less is making sense. The writing is just terrible. This is worse than what Lucas and Spielberg did to Indy. The more they develop characters, the less those characters make sense.

And yet there are many criminal organizations with leaders no different from Kiva on Earth that are very powerful and successful in what they do. Just because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean it's not realistic.

kwlafayette
June 6th, 2010, 08:41 PM
You are wrong about that, criminal organizations do not take killing their own lightly. At least not the ones that last. If O'Niel started executing team leaders at random, say for incorrect use of whom vs. who, how long before he runs out of team leaders? How long before people start going AWOL? The rules are basically the same as in polite society, it is just the penalties are more severe.

PG15
June 6th, 2010, 09:41 PM
Kiva killed Olan because he was incompetent and to prove a point to Rush.

On the flip side of the coin, she was also angered at the loss of her men when her Icarus planet exploded, and she wants those who were injured mended. One way or another she obviously cares about her following while, as you said, offering severe penalties to those who displeases her.

norph
June 6th, 2010, 09:42 PM
For all we know maybe the Lucian Alliance didn't find the Icarus types planets. Naquadria was researched by one of the Goulds long ago, that Gould could have a database of known Icarus types planets in the Milky Way and the Lucian Alliance may have found that database after the downfall of the Goulds.

If that's what happen, I guess if SGA could get access to that database, they can send supplies to Destiny in the future from other Icarus types planets.

GateroomGuard
June 6th, 2010, 09:43 PM
Kiva killed Olan because he was incompetent and to prove a point to Rush.

On the flip side of the coin, she was also angered at the loss of her men when her Icarus planet exploded, and she wants those who were injured mended. One way or another she obviously cares about her following while, as you said, offering severe penalties to those who displeases her.

I don't think she was angry because she liked her people I think she was angry because as a warlord she just lost her base and her army. And she wants her people to have medical care not for any altruistic purpose but simply to give her more man power.

Avenger
June 6th, 2010, 09:45 PM
The LA are just another hackneyed bad guy group. Kiva just up and kills that scientist, for no particular reason, and a line of new scientists forms on the left to go to work for her. That makes no sense now does it? Obviously, the first thing you think when you hear about that is, "I wonder if she will kill me". If I was a scientist working for Kiva, I would be thinking of ways to go into hiding. Also equally obvious at that point, Rush knew he was never getting out of there alive.

The plain and simple fact is, with leaders like Kiva, there would be no more Lucien Alliance. If you are some lackey, and you see Kiva killing off other lackeys every week, how long do you stick around? Does word not get around? How does she find new lackeys after the first ten thousand die by her own hand? Everyone would have abandoned her by now, and no one new would go to work for her.

It's not fact just because you think or say it is. You can't assume that because Kiva killed one scientist that she makes a habit of it and kills people right and left just to makes points or because she feels like it.

PG15
June 6th, 2010, 09:47 PM
I don't think she was angry because she liked her people I think she was angry because as a warlord she just lost her base and her army. And she wants her people to have medical care not for any altruistic purpose but simply to give her more man power.

Indeed, that is probably the most likely interpretation. However, it still means that she cares about their well being, and that's pretty good.

Avenger
June 6th, 2010, 09:48 PM
And she didn't scoff at TJ being a Medic.

GateroomGuard
June 6th, 2010, 09:49 PM
Indeed, that is probably the most likely interpretation. However, it still means that she cares about their well being, and that's pretty good.

She sees her people as tools, she'll take care of them as long as they provide use.

PG15
June 6th, 2010, 09:50 PM
I don't see the problem with that.

Lahela
June 6th, 2010, 09:54 PM
Just so we're all clear, the LA has been with the series since "Air". This is very much the payoff to the initial Icarus attack.

Nail, meet hammer. :) And that payoff, which is played out subtly over the whole season, is one of the strengths of this show. After Air, we're left wondering why the LA attacked, in Human we discover that the LA actually found the Icarus planet in the first place so the seed for something bigger is sown, and *kapow* here it is!

GateroomGuard
June 6th, 2010, 09:55 PM
I don't see the problem with that.

Because when Kiva finds a better tool ala Rush over Olan the old tool gets thrown out, aka dead.

PG15
June 6th, 2010, 10:05 PM
I still fail to see your point.

I mean yes, it's a dangerous job, but in the wide galaxy how much better can you really have it?

GateroomGuard
June 6th, 2010, 10:08 PM
I still fail to see your point.

I mean yes, it's a dangerous job, but in the wide galaxy how much better can you really have it?

Have a job where your given a pink slip by a bald guy rather than a wire around your neck for one. :)

PG15
June 6th, 2010, 10:11 PM
But those jobs are rare. :p

GateroomGuard
June 6th, 2010, 10:11 PM
But those jobs are rare. :p

Well those Lucian Alliance minions better start unionizing.

PG15
June 6th, 2010, 10:15 PM
The fact that I cannot green you for that is an egregious offense.

Excuse me while I go kill a scientist.

Buck32
June 6th, 2010, 11:16 PM
I wasn't a fan of involving the Lucian Alliance at first either. But Incursion Part 1 did crank things up a notch and I thought it was decently done. The new take on LA is a lot better than what it was in SG-1 that's for sure.

I agree with you in part, let's just hope once this current storyline is resolved we can get back to what i think makes SGU a good series, exploring the unknown!!!

pipi
June 7th, 2010, 01:17 AM
It's not convenience... it's Destiny!

Yes indeed. It just wouldn't be stargate if there wasn't an alien crew member. But I don't really like Kiva...

Stormtrooper
June 7th, 2010, 06:35 AM
Kiva is being portrayed a lot more as a Tal Shiar agent seeking to fulfill higher purposes for the Romulan Empire than a Lucian Alliance smuggler/mercenary.

Loheat
June 7th, 2010, 03:11 PM
Nail, meet hammer. :) And that payoff, which is played out subtly over the whole season, is one of the strengths of this show. After Air, we're left wondering why the LA attacked, in Human we discover that the LA actually found the Icarus planet in the first place so the seed for something bigger is sown, and *kapow* here it is!

I dont think mentioning it once 11 episodes later in Human counts as it playing out subtly over the whole season. Unless I'm really dense and there are other times it has been mentioned between Air and Human

KEK
June 7th, 2010, 03:17 PM
Who else finds this whole LA plot a little too convenient? i mean first we have the communication stones, and now the LA just happen to find another Icarus type planet and dial to the destiny, it's like TPTB have run out of original ideas and just thought oh well let's just chuck something together with the LA, who for mine have always been a minor threat anyway.

Personally i would have liked to have seen some kind of encounter with the blue aliens or just about anything else.

thoughts??

I'm not sure what you mean. The Lucian Alliance didn't just happen to find one, they've obviously been looking for one, it's the reason they attacked the Icarus base in the first place.

hedwig
June 7th, 2010, 03:39 PM
Kiva killed Olan because he was incompetent and to prove a point to Rush.

On the flip side of the coin, she was also angered at the loss of her men when her Icarus planet exploded, and she wants those who were injured mended. One way or another she obviously cares about her following while, as you said, offering severe penalties to those who displeases her.


Indeed, that is probably the most likely interpretation. However, it still means that she cares about their well being, and that's pretty good.

This may be a bit off topic, but the bolded bit confuses me. She claims (acts) like she's angry that many of her people were lost in the explosion. Yet she's the one that left them all behind. Why didn't she just order everyone to abandon their posts and get through the gate immediately? The woman tech told her she couldn't control an imminent explosion. Yet Kiva as much as said "get through the gate when you can". She knew what happened to the Icarus planet in the first episode. I can't believe she really thought the people she left behind were going to survive what was about to happen. Yet, practically the first thing she did when coming through the gate was aim a gun at Telford's head (she thought he was still Rush) and accuse him of leaving her people behind to die. Seems to me she was passing the buck for her own stupidity and shortsightedness.

The Mighty 6 platoon
June 7th, 2010, 03:44 PM
This may be a bit off topic, but the bolded bit confuses me. She claims (acts) like she's angry that many of her people were lost in the explosion. Yet she's the one that left them all behind. Why didn't she just order everyone to abandon their posts and get through the gate immediately? The woman tech told her she couldn't control an imminent explosion. Yet Kiva as much as said "get through the gate when you can". She knew what happened to the Icarus planet in the first episode. I can't believe she really thought the people she left behind were going to survive what was about to happen. Yet, practically the first thing she did when coming through the gate was aim a gun at Telford's head (she thought he was still Rush) and accuse him of leaving her people behind to die. Seems to me she was passing the buck for her own stupidity and shortsightedness.

Lots of her people were presumably outside and busy fighting off Sam's attack though, she couldn't simply order them all to run through the gate, they were too far away.

Krazeh
June 7th, 2010, 04:18 PM
The woman tech told her she couldn't control an imminent explosion. Yet Kiva as much as said "get through the gate when you can".

Didn't Kiva actually say "Get as many of our people through the gate as you can"?

Avenger
June 7th, 2010, 04:58 PM
Kiva went through the gate and it was some time after she came through that the last of the LA came through. It looked to me like she wanted to get to the other side so she could start working on the take over plan as soon as possible.

hedwig
June 7th, 2010, 05:16 PM
Kiva went through the gate and it was some time after she came through that the last of the LA came through. It looked to me like she wanted to get to the other side so she could start working on the take over plan as soon as possible.

Still suggesting to me that she left all those people behind, knowing the planet could blow at any minute. So much for her "caring" about all her people. And she did immediately try to blame Rush for the loss of all those people. She was mostly concerned about getting to the Destiny, and not so much about those she left behind.

KEK
June 7th, 2010, 05:34 PM
How would her staying behind have gotten any more of them through the gate?

hedwig
June 7th, 2010, 07:13 PM
How would her staying behind have gotten any more of them through the gate?

It wouldn't. My comment was more about her blaming somebody else for the loss of her people. She didn't accept the responsibility for that, when those people died in order to allow her and those in the temple to get through the gate. They didn't die because of anything Rush did, yet she blamed him for their loss. Yes, they would have died anyway. And no, no more would have been saved had she stayed. I'm just saying she didn't take responsibility for her own actions, or orders, or whatever else anyone feels like labeling it. They died because of the consequences of Kiva's actions/decisions/choices. :)

fmbchris
June 7th, 2010, 07:18 PM
ive got it figured out! It's Franklin.

Giantevilhead
June 7th, 2010, 09:25 PM
Considering how Anubis didn't even know about the existence of Naquadria until he mind probed Jonas, I would say that the Lucian Alliance being able to find another Icarus is a pretty big convenience.

Buck32
June 8th, 2010, 03:29 PM
Considering how Anubis didn't even know about the existence of Naquadria until he mind probed Jonas, I would say that the Lucian Alliance being able to find another Icarus is a pretty big convenience.

That's my point exactly it's like the writers thought " right, there's no humans where the destiny is so let's just make it so the LA just gate to the destiny so we can have us some enemies", and a hostage style standoff, while we're at it we'll have Telford come with them so we can resolve that storyline as well!!! Lazy writing and far too CONVENIENT!!!!

natyanayaki
June 8th, 2010, 05:10 PM
Still suggesting to me that she left all those people behind, knowing the planet could blow at any minute. So much for her "caring" about all her people. And she did immediately try to blame Rush for the loss of all those people. She was mostly concerned about getting to the Destiny, and not so much about those she left behind.

I can see her attempt to blame Rush be a way for her to divert blame from her, onto the 'alien Rush' so that she doesn't have to take responsibility for it. Not the most logical method, don't know if it would work in the long-term, but it could help her 'command' in the short term.


That's my point exactly it's like the writers thought " right, there's no humans where the destiny is so let's just make it so the LA just gate to the destiny so we can have us some enemies", and a hostage style standoff, while we're at it we'll have Telford come with them so we can resolve that storyline as well!!! Lazy writing and far too CONVENIENT!!!!

That's how I feel regarding the Lucian Alliance. Personally, I would have been more OK/comfortable with non-human aliens with the capability of shape-shifting, morphing (like the Animorphs) or something. I just don't see the necessity of bringing enemies from the Milky Way or Pegasus, the characters in this series are traveling farther than even the Alterans did and I'd like that to be explored more. Maybe in season 2?

Personally, I would love it if by the end of this season, all potential communication with the Milky Way is somehow lost. I know many probably disagree with me, but personally the stones, their connection to 'home' has been a huge issue with the story, especially since Young can't seem to come to a decision regarding Earth. It's as if he's decided that the Destiny is under Earth's jurisdiction only when the Destiny crew could use Earth's help. I just want that connection severed so we can see the crew aboard Destiny operate on it's own, see Young (and now I guess Telford) operate without having O'Neill to confide in.

Buck32
June 8th, 2010, 05:47 PM
Well said, couldn't agree more, i wouldn't even mind if some of the Lucian Alliance were left stranded on the destiny, coz that would make for interesting story and character development. But cut them off from Earth altogether and let's do some exploring!!!

Zkyire
June 9th, 2010, 04:40 AM
It's not convenience... it's Destiny!

I.. uh.. I just..

I lol'd but, damn man.

Zkyire
June 9th, 2010, 04:44 AM
Who else finds this whole LA plot a little too convenient? i mean first we have the communication stones, and now the LA just happen to find another Icarus type planet and dial to the destiny, it's like TPTB have run out of original ideas and just thought oh well let's just chuck something together with the LA, who for mine have always been a minor threat anyway.

Personally i would have liked to have seen some kind of encounter with the blue aliens or just about anything else.

thoughts??

- The Icarus planet belonged to the Lucian Alliance before the Tau'ri got there.

- Someone alerted the Alliance to the planet (Telford) - and since he was (seemingly) brainwashed, he would have told them all about the Icarus project (as Kiva knew all the personel on the base/ship).

- It's not like they "just happened" to find another planet. They've known for a while and have been searching, intently.

xxxevilgrinxxx
June 9th, 2010, 06:13 AM
...
Personally, I would love it if by the end of this season, all potential communication with the Milky Way is somehow lost. ...I sort of agree with you. As long as Earth is still there, the crew is divided. I'd still like them to be able to reach home at some point but it would be great if they had each other, and the Destiny, and everything didn't go through Earth. Maybe next season :)

natyanayaki
June 9th, 2010, 09:55 AM
I sort of agree with you. As long as Earth is still there, the crew is divided. I'd still like them to be able to reach home at some point but it would be great if they had each other, and the Destiny, and everything didn't go through Earth. Maybe next season :)

At some point it would be nice for them to reach home, and really the writers haven't fully fallen out of their SG1/SGA patterns. But I think it would be interesting to see them cut off, like Atlantis, but even more so. In SGA though they were cut off from Earth, they were still able to meet new humans, and had a much larger population to interact with. Aboard the Destiny, it would be much more extreme version of that scenario.

s09119
June 9th, 2010, 09:57 AM
Considering how Anubis didn't even know about the existence of Naquadria until he mind probed Jonas, I would say that the Lucian Alliance being able to find another Icarus is a pretty big convenience.

Everything the Goa'uld discovered seems to have become common knowledge after their downfall. And besides, this is the energy source that powers Earth's fleet. I'm sure most of our enemies have figured out what we're using by now. And if not, they had a spy within Stargate Command anyway to tell them.

kymeric
June 9th, 2010, 10:43 AM
Well theyve been building towards this from the very first episode. They left the question of the attackers open, and then they foreshadowed it with the mutiny in Divided, and now for the last 3 episodes of the season theyre doing the inverse of the first three. The LA version of icarus was attacked, they fled thru the gate and it blew up, exactly what happened to the protagonists.

I think its not convient, youre just missing almost all of it.

Giantevilhead
June 9th, 2010, 10:46 AM
Everything the Goa'uld discovered seems to have become common knowledge after their downfall. And besides, this is the energy source that powers Earth's fleet. I'm sure most of our enemies have figured out what we're using by now. And if not, they had a spy within Stargate Command anyway to tell them.

But naquadria isn't even a naturally occurring element/isotope. It's made from radiation emitted by naquadah generated explosions and has a very short half life, according to Carter in "Fallout," most of the naquadria on Kelowa would have decayed back into naquadah in 10,000 years if they hadn't mined it. It also happens to be extremely unstable, it can easily go supercritical and explode. The whole idea of the Icarus planet contradicts previous information about naquadria.

Also, we don't know if earth still uses naquadria now that they have all their advanced Asgard tech. Considering how unstable naquadria is, it seems unlikely.

hedwig
June 9th, 2010, 11:06 AM
- The Icarus planet belonged to the Lucian Alliance before the Tau'ri got there.

- Someone alerted the Alliance to the planet (Telford) - and since he was (seemingly) brainwashed, he would have told them all about the Icarus project (as Kiva knew all the personel on the base/ship).

- It's not like they "just happened" to find another planet. They've known for a while and have been searching, intently.

I don't think the Icarus planet "belonged" to anybody. They didn't have title to it anymore than earth or anybody else did. The LA found it and were going to use it until earth usurped it for their own purposes

I do agree the LA had been searching for a powerful enough source of energy to reach the Destiny (I'll be interested to find out if it's ever explained how they knew about the Destiny), and probably had found Icarus and then another at some point, and were probably looking for others (as rare as they likely were).

s09119
June 9th, 2010, 11:08 AM
But naquadria isn't even a naturally occurring element/isotope. It's made from radiation emitted by naquadah generated explosions and has a very short half life, according to Carter in "Fallout," most of the naquadria on Kelowa would have decayed back into naquadah in 10,000 years if they hadn't mined it. It also happens to be extremely unstable, it can easily go supercritical and explode. The whole idea of the Icarus planet contradicts previous information about naquadria.

Also, we don't know if earth still uses naquadria now that they have all their advanced Asgard tech. Considering how unstable naquadria is, it seems unlikely.

Just because it was synthesized once doesn't mean it can't be found naturally in an alien environment. We artificially create natural compounds all the time, after all.

The point is that the Lucian Alliance had spies on Earth, so the chances are quite high that they knew about naquadria. Of course, they may not have even knew what they'd found when they discovered the Icarus planet... at least not until Telford filled them in on it.

Giantevilhead
June 9th, 2010, 11:18 AM
Just because it was synthesized once doesn't mean it can't be found naturally in an alien environment. We artificially create natural compounds all the time, after all.

The point is that the Lucian Alliance had spies on Earth, so the chances are quite high that they knew about naquadria. Of course, they may not have even knew what they'd found when they discovered the Icarus planet... at least not until Telford filled them in on it.

But the problem with naturally occurring naquadria, assuming that it can exist, is that it has a very short half life. There's no way that it could build to the level on Icarus without being a part of a chain reaction that goes supercritical.

natyanayaki
June 9th, 2010, 11:52 AM
Well theyve been building towards this from the very first episode. They left the question of the attackers open, and then they foreshadowed it with the mutiny in Divided, and now for the last 3 episodes of the season theyre doing the inverse of the first three. The LA version of icarus was attacked, they fled thru the gate and it blew up, exactly what happened to the protagonists.

I think its not convient, youre just missing almost all of it.

How exactly was it foreshadowed in "Divided"?

I think it's giving the writers too much credit to say that "they've been building towards this" since the first episode. Yes, they were attacked by the LA in the first episode, but only till "Subversion" did the LA become an important to the story again. IMO steady build-up would involve more than seeing them in the first episode, then seeing them again in the last three. It's not completely random, but this hasn't been the result of subtle build up.

Duneknight
June 9th, 2010, 11:54 AM
whats this fuss about naquadria? i already got me naquadria easily, here:

http://www.naquadria.com.au/canberra/home.htm

Duneknight
June 9th, 2010, 11:58 AM
How exactly was it foreshadowed in "Divided"?

I think it's giving the writers too much credit to say that "they've been building towards this" since the first episode. Yes, they were attacked by the LA in the first episode, but only till "Subversion" did the LA become an important to the story again. IMO steady build-up would involve more than seeing them in the first episode, then seeing them again in the last three. It's not completely random, but this hasn't been the result of subtle build up.

yeah, if they reshuffled the order of the episodes it will still be the same in the end.

s09119
June 9th, 2010, 12:26 PM
But the problem with naturally occurring naquadria, assuming that it can exist, is that it has a very short half life. There's no way that it could build to the level on Icarus without being a part of a chain reaction that goes supercritical.

And yet... it did. That's the reality of it, so why bother saying it can't happen when, quite clearly, it can?

P-90_177
June 9th, 2010, 03:30 PM
But naquadria isn't even a naturally occurring element/isotope. It's made from radiation emitted by naquadah generated explosions and has a very short half life, according to Carter in "Fallout," most of the naquadria on Kelowa would have decayed back into naquadah in 10,000 years if they hadn't mined it. It also happens to be extremely unstable, it can easily go supercritical and explode. The whole idea of the Icarus planet contradicts previous information about naquadria.

Also, we don't know if earth still uses naquadria now that they have all their advanced Asgard tech. Considering how unstable naquadria is, it seems unlikely.

To be honest I don't seem to recall them saying that the Naqudria on either planet was naturally occuring. It would not surprise me it Kellowna wasn't the only planet the Goa'uld tried producing it on.

However there is a third option. What about the Ori? The invaded Kellowna. They would have learned of Naqudria. So what better weapon to use against the Milky way than that. Blow up entire planets with ease. Of course I'm sure they would have preffered to tet it first so hence why there are the odd icarus type planets hovering around.

jelgate
June 9th, 2010, 03:37 PM
To be honest I don't seem to recall them saying that the Naqudria on either planet was naturally occuring. It would not surprise me it Kellowna wasn't the only planet the Goa'uld tried producing it on.

However there is a third option. What about the Ori? The invaded Kellowna. They would have learned of Naqudria. So what better weapon to use against the Milky way than that. Blow up entire planets with ease. Of course I'm sure they would have preffered to tet it first so hence why there are the odd icarus type planets hovering around.Its not the Ori's style to blow up planets. They like to convert first

P-90_177
June 9th, 2010, 03:42 PM
Its not the Ori's style to blow up planets. They like to convert first

yes but it'd be a powerful symbol of power to blow up a whole planet.

Buck32
June 9th, 2010, 06:21 PM
Well theyve been building towards this from the very first episode. They left the question of the attackers open, and then they foreshadowed it with the mutiny in Divided, and now for the last 3 episodes of the season theyre doing the inverse of the first three. The LA version of icarus was attacked, they fled thru the gate and it blew up, exactly what happened to the protagonists.

I think its not convient, youre just missing almost all of it.

True they may have alluded to the LA attacking the base throughout the season, i have been watching the entire season and i can't recall it being mentioned all that often, but they pulled the LA having another Icarus planet and trying to reach the destiny right out of their @###ses!!

how was it foreshadowed in divided? weren't they fighting amongst themselves, civilians vs military? i don't recall the LA having a big role to play there.

Avenger
June 9th, 2010, 08:58 PM
Kellowna was extremely unstable before the Ori showed up.

P-90_177
June 10th, 2010, 10:05 AM
Kellowna was extremely unstable before the Ori showed up.

Erm.........yes?

brian_177
June 10th, 2010, 11:59 PM
True they may have alluded to the LA attacking the base throughout the season, i have been watching the entire season and i can't recall it being mentioned all that often, but they pulled the LA having another Icarus planet and trying to reach the destiny right out of their @###ses!!

Why do you think it was pulled out of their asses? I think it's falls completely in place with the behaviour we saw from the Alliance in "Air." I'll walk through the way I see it--maybe I'm dead wrong.

The Lucian Alliance attacked Icarus base seemingly for no reason, yet it just happens to be when the personnel on the base have finally reached a point where opening a wormhole with the ninth chevron is possible? I think they attacked because their spy, Telford, tipped them off that they were getting close to success.

With that said, I think it's perfectly conceivable that the LA had already discovered their Icarus-type planet prior to their attack on Icarus base. The problem was they couldn't figure out how to make it work--and indeed they don't get there until they get Rush. So they attack Icarus in hopes of gaining control of an operational ninth chevron gate, and in the end fail.

With the only other known Icarus type planet destroyed, the LA are forced to continue their plans on the Icarus planet that they occupy, and eventually ARE able to board Destiny.

PG15
June 11th, 2010, 12:10 AM
Dude, brain storm.

I think not only did the LA attack Icarus because they want to capture a working 9th-chevron-dialing Stargate, but that they set us all up in the first place. The location of Icarus came from a tip within the LA - probably from Telford himself - so what if the LA had given this planet to us so we can do all the work for them, and if/when we succeed they can sweep in and claim it as their own?

Wow, if TPTB had all this planned from the beginning I'd be damn impressed.

Kanten
June 11th, 2010, 01:03 AM
Its not the Ori's style to blow up planets. They like to convert first

And when said planets don't, they blow it up.

Avenger
June 11th, 2010, 02:19 AM
Dude, brain storm.

I think not only did the LA attack Icarus because they want to capture a working 9th-chevron-dialing Stargate, but that they set us all up in the first place. The location of Icarus came from a tip within the LA - probably from Telford himself - so what if the LA had given this planet to us so we can do all the work for them, and if/when we succeed they can sweep in and claim it as their own?

Wow, if TPTB had all this planned from the beginning I'd be damn impressed.

Makes sense given that they were making a lot of progress once Eli figured out the equation.

jelgate
June 11th, 2010, 03:14 AM
And when said planets don't, they blow it up.

They tend to wipe out living inhabitants not destroy the planet

xxxevilgrinxxx
June 11th, 2010, 04:29 AM
Dude, brain storm.

I think not only did the LA attack Icarus because they want to capture a working 9th-chevron-dialing Stargate, but that they set us all up in the first place. The location of Icarus came from a tip within the LA - probably from Telford himself - so what if the LA had given this planet to us so we can do all the work for them, and if/when we succeed they can sweep in and claim it as their own?

Wow, if TPTB had all this planned from the beginning I'd be damn impressed.

that sounds plausible to me, and the way the writers are setting things up so far in advance, it wouldn't surprise me at all

Lahela
June 11th, 2010, 05:00 AM
Dude, brain storm.

I think not only did the LA attack Icarus because they want to capture a working 9th-chevron-dialing Stargate, but that they set us all up in the first place. The location of Icarus came from a tip within the LA - probably from Telford himself - so what if the LA had given this planet to us so we can do all the work for them, and if/when we succeed they can sweep in and claim it as their own?

Wow, if TPTB had all this planned from the beginning I'd be damn impressed.

Sounds plausible... and if turns out like that, I'll pelt you with cookies for spoiling it. :p

PG15
June 11th, 2010, 09:06 AM
I'll be protected by my shield of self-satisfaction if that turns out to be true. Do your worst! :P

Oh, and this plot totally reminds me of this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_your_base_are_belong_to_us). :D

Major_Griff
June 11th, 2010, 02:50 PM
Dude, brain storm.

I think not only did the LA attack Icarus because they want to capture a working 9th-chevron-dialing Stargate, but that they set us all up in the first place. The location of Icarus came from a tip within the LA - probably from Telford himself - so what if the LA had given this planet to us so we can do all the work for them, and if/when we succeed they can sweep in and claim it as their own?

Wow, if TPTB had all this planned from the beginning I'd be damn impressed.

Interesting. I never thought of that. That's probably true, at least that makes a lot of sense.

Giantevilhead
June 12th, 2010, 06:24 PM
And yet... it did. That's the reality of it, so why bother saying it can't happen when, quite clearly, it can?

It should have gone supercritical and blown up long before they set up Icarus base. A large vein of naquadah turning into naquadria was threatening to blow up Kellowa. A planet with a core made of naquadria should have blown up long ago.


To be honest I don't seem to recall them saying that the Naqudria on either planet was naturally occuring. It would not surprise me it Kellowna wasn't the only planet the Goa'uld tried producing it on.

The problem is that if it was made by the Goa'uld then they would have either known about it long ago or it would have been too late for them to use it since naquadria has a very short half life.


However there is a third option. What about the Ori? The invaded Kellowna. They would have learned of Naqudria. So what better weapon to use against the Milky way than that. Blow up entire planets with ease. Of course I'm sure they would have preffered to tet it first so hence why there are the odd icarus type planets hovering around.

They already collapsed at least two planets into black holes, people know how powerful they are. Also, in order for them to make a naquadria planet, they need a planet rich with naquadah and that limits their options since the most populated planets already had their naquadah mined by the Goa'uld.