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Duneknight
June 5th, 2010, 03:25 PM
put a dozen soldiers in front of it ready to shoot. why didnt that happen? seems strategic to me. they also couldve planted C4s in the gate room as a trap or instead of having a kino just watching them, they couldve attached C4s on kino and late that ball-thing go after them.

Ragitsu
June 5th, 2010, 03:25 PM
For starters, they did not know what the Lucian Alliance would send through the gate first.

Duneknight
June 5th, 2010, 03:29 PM
Telford wouldve known something, and thats what SGC did always.

GateroomGuard
June 5th, 2010, 03:31 PM
Yeah, if you look at my name and location this episode was really embarassing for me.

Duneknight
June 5th, 2010, 03:32 PM
Yeah, if you look at my name and location this episode was really embarassing for me.

i dont blame you, i blame Young.

Major_Griff
June 5th, 2010, 03:35 PM
Venting the Atmo risks absolutely no lives and kills them all in one fell swoop. While putting guards in the gateroom means a firefight and allows the LA the potential to put a flash grenade through or a bomb and gain the upper hand. Young didn't know about the lock picks or that they'd bring Rush.

GateroomGuard
June 5th, 2010, 03:39 PM
Venting the Atmo risks absolutely no lives and kills them all in one fell swoop. While putting guards in the gateroom means a firefight and allows the LA to potential to put a flash grenade through or a bomb and gain the upper hand. Young didn't know about the lock picks.

Yes but he based his entire defense of the Destiny on him venting the atmosphere. When he didn't he put his men in the greatest risk by forcing them to fight in even more confined spaces where grenades are more effective, against an enemy that is now ready and prepared, with his men having limited ammo.

tomstone
June 5th, 2010, 03:39 PM
Youngs strategy was brilliant. With everything sealed and dark in the Gateroom the LA was just as confused as the Icarus crew on their arrival.(Nice that they came in just as high and many got hurt) Young made a big mistake in not venting the athmosphere when he saw Talford. They could have revived him again after making sure LA is no threat at the moment. He was ready to let Rush/Talford sufficate in order to get rid of the Brainwashing, but wouldn't do it to get rid of the danger in one simple sweep. As like he wanted to take them on.

Major_Griff
June 5th, 2010, 03:40 PM
Yes but he based his entire defense of the Destiny on him venting the atmosphere. When he didn't he put his men in the greatest risk by forcing them to fight in even more confined spaces where grenades are more effective, against an enemy that is now ready and prepared, with his men having limited ammo.

But like I said, he didn't know they would be bringing Rush.

Gollumpus
June 5th, 2010, 03:40 PM
put a dozen soldiers in front of it ready to shoot. why didnt that happen? seems strategic to me. they also couldve planted C4s in the gate room as a trap or instead of having a kino just watching them, they couldve attached C4s on kino and late that ball-thing go after them.

A.) Ragitsu is correct, the LA could have sent through some kind of bomb or such which would kill or incapacitate who-ever was in the gate room. Anyone in the room would be instant casualties or prisoners.

B.) Young's idea was to seal the LA in the gate room, offer them the choice of surrender or gasping out their last breaths when he depressurized the room. The plan fell apart when Telford/Rush came though the gate and he hesitated to suffocate the invading forces. It would result in less damage to the ship, which is already pretty banged up.

This being said, I was surprised that the LA were so easily able to break out of the gate room. I would have taken steps to block the passages or otherwise seal the doors. A bunch of stuff stacked in the corridor would seal them easily enough. Your troops are beyond that behind better defenses.

regards,
G.

Ragitsu
June 5th, 2010, 03:42 PM
This being said, I was surprised that the LA were so easily able to break out of the gate room. I would have taken steps to block the passages or otherwise seal the doors. A bunch of stuff stacked in the corridor would seal them easily enough. Your troops are beyond that behind better defenses.

And, is it just me, or did they cut through an interior wall with a blow torch?

Duneknight
June 5th, 2010, 03:47 PM
A.) Ragitsu is correct, the LA could have sent through some kind of bomb or such which would kill or incapacitate who-ever was in the gate room. Anyone in the room would be instant casualties or prisoners.

B.) Young's idea was to seal the LA in the gate room, offer them the choice of surrender or gasping out their last breaths when he depressurized the room. The plan fell apart when Telford/Rush came though the gate and he hesitated to suffocate the invading forces. It would result in less damage to the ship, which is already pretty banged up.

This being said, I was surprised that the LA were so easily able to break out of the gate room. I would have taken steps to block the passages or otherwise seal the doors. A bunch of stuff stacked in the corridor would seal them easily enough. Your troops are beyond that behind better defenses.

so what if they sent a bomb, it wouldve been a risk he had to take. and secondly Young as i said before couldve had C4 the area to act as mines. and as you said yourself, for an attacking force that doesnt know the area so well, they sure easily beat the soldiers who lived their for months. having lasers on guns doesnt make you stronger or having a hot leader for that matter.

xxxevilgrinxxx
June 5th, 2010, 03:51 PM
put a dozen soldiers in front of it ready to shoot. why didnt that happen? seems strategic to me. they also couldve planted C4s in the gate room as a trap or instead of having a kino just watching them, they couldve attached C4s on kino and late that ball-thing go after them.

Young didn't put valuable resources (military and ammo) in a room he intended on venting to space and killing everyone within. To do so is a waste of resources he didn't have to spare. C4 in the gateroom. What might that do to the gate itself, something the crew needs for survival? Also, now you've got Young putting soldiers he can't spare into a room he intends to vent, and then further threatening them with explosives? This makes me very glad that it's Young in charge and not DuneKnight :P

jelgate
June 5th, 2010, 03:51 PM
so what if they sent a bomb, it wouldve been a risk he had to take. and secondly Young as i said before couldve had C4 the area to act as mines. and as you said yourself, for an attacking force that doesnt know the area so well, they sure easily beat the soldiers who lived their for months. having lasers on guns doesnt make you stronger or having a hot leader for that matter.

Look at all those pretty hull fractures leaking oxygen into space.

Gollumpus
June 5th, 2010, 03:52 PM
And, is it just me, or did they cut through an interior wall with a blow torch?

And who would have thought the LA would show up with cutting tools, a "magic" lockpick and Telford/Rush when they came through the gate? :)

Regardless of what they brought with them, Young should have taken measures to impede their progress via any OBVIOUS avenues. A simple means to do that would be to place heavy objects in the passage leading to the door. Takes time to move past them or around them, assuming you can get by them at all. It would make it easier to pick them off.

regards,
G.

Gollumpus
June 5th, 2010, 03:58 PM
so what if they sent a bomb, it wouldve been a risk he had to take. and secondly Young as i said before couldve had C4 the area to act as mines. and as you said yourself, for an attacking force that doesnt know the area so well, they sure easily beat the soldiers who lived their for months. having lasers on guns doesnt make you stronger or having a hot leader for that matter.

Well, the hot leader was the deciding factor... :P

(See Evil's post) I wouldn't think Young would want to place any of his limited forces in any more danger than he had to. Also, he has limited ammunition. The mining idea isn't a bad one, I'd just be a bit reluctant to set off bombs in such a sensitive area.

regards,
G.

Duneknight
June 5th, 2010, 03:58 PM
Young didn't put valuable resources (military and ammo) in a room he intended on venting to space and killing everyone within. To do so is a waste of resources he didn't have to spare. C4 in the gateroom. What might that do to the gate itself, something the crew needs for survival? Also, now you've got Young putting soldiers he can't spare into a room he intends to vent, and then further threatening them with explosives? This makes me very glad that it's Young in charge and not DuneKnight :P

wat? Young was modeled after me, ask the writers.

Tielster
June 5th, 2010, 03:58 PM
I was surprised that the LA were so easily able to break out of the gate room. I would have taken steps to block the passages or otherwise seal the doors. A bunch of stuff stacked in the corridor would seal them easily enough. Your troops are beyond that behind better defenses.

regards,
G.

Not sure how much attention SGC or HWS has been paying attention to or been able to glean regarding the advances of the LA. I know that the last time we saw them(outside of the Icarus attack) they were a bunch of bumbling idiots. I was totally excited at how smart and disciplined they've become. Exceptional evolution of a culture only takes a couple of brilliant leaders :)

Gollumpus
June 5th, 2010, 04:00 PM
Look at all those pretty hull fractures leaking oxygen into space.

Well, there's that, but more importantly there's the systems for running the gate to be considered.

regards,
G.

Tielster
June 5th, 2010, 04:02 PM
put a dozen soldiers in front of it ready to shoot. why didnt that happen? seems strategic to me. they also couldve planted C4s in the gate room as a trap or instead of having a kino just watching them, they couldve attached C4s on kino and late that ball-thing go after them.


It's not like they have and endless surplus of ordnance lying around. At least, that's what I took into account. They don't have a hardy supply of anything and will have to get creative on a regular basis.

xxxevilgrinxxx
June 5th, 2010, 04:03 PM
Well, there's that, but more importantly there's the systems for running the gate to be considered.

regards,
G.

exactly
that gate is necessary to their survival
setting off bombs in there is not a bright idea at all
setting off bombs in a confined space in addition to having your own men in the room at the time? *shakes head* I'll keep what I think of that to myself.

Duneknight
June 5th, 2010, 04:03 PM
Well, there's that, but more importantly there's the systems for running the gate to be considered.

regards,
G.

fine no explosions, but shoulda had snipers on top of the gate waiting for the LA.

xxxevilgrinxxx
June 5th, 2010, 04:06 PM
fine no explosions, but shoulda had snipers on top of the gate waiting for the LA.

snipers, in a room you intend to vent
okay

Duneknight
June 5th, 2010, 04:07 PM
snipers, in a room you intend to vent
okay

sniper first, if something happens wrong then vent.

xxxevilgrinxxx
June 5th, 2010, 04:08 PM
sniper first, if something happens wrong then vent.

*snorks* armed people coming through the gate is pretty much "something wrong" right out of the door, don't you think?

Gollumpus
June 5th, 2010, 04:08 PM
fine no explosions, but shoulda had snipers on top of the gate waiting for the LA.

Could have just stood Greer in front of the gate with his "mad face" on.

I was hoping for some kind of gas attack. Fill the room with some kind of noxious vapors, say from the bean special at lunch. Would have dropped the LA as they came through the door, however, if someone struck a match you'd get your explosion. :P

regards,
G.

Duneknight
June 5th, 2010, 04:12 PM
Could have just stood Greer in front of the gate with his "mad face" on.

I was hoping for some kind of gas attack. Fill the room with some kind of noxious vapors, say from the bean special at lunch. Would have dropped the LA as they came through the door, however, if someone struck a match you'd get your explosion. :P

regards,
G.

how about my kino idea? get a bunch of kinos and go cowabunga! on them. you know what im talking about.

JustAnotherVoice
June 5th, 2010, 04:15 PM
The smart money would have PRE vented the room to something like 10% of the norm, and exposed ALL adjacent corridors/rooms to hard vaccum, in addition to locking down doors and consoles in those areas.

The thin atmosphere would give Young a chance to make his ultimatum, and the hard vaccum would blow them out into space if anyone tried to get out, either through doors or through the apparently paper thing walls.

Duneknight
June 5th, 2010, 04:18 PM
The smart money would have PRE vented the room to something like 10% of the norm, and exposed ALL adjacent corridors/rooms to hard vaccum, in addition to locking down doors and consoles in those areas.

The thin atmosphere would give Young a chance to make his ultimatum, and the hard vaccum would blow them out into space if anyone tried to get out, either through doors or through the apparently paper thing walls.

i dont see a problem with that idea. could also have soldiers with space atmosphere suits to seal the deal. wow SGC should hire us.

Gollumpus
June 5th, 2010, 04:19 PM
The smart money would have PRE vented the room to something like 10% of the norm, and exposed ALL adjacent corridors/rooms to hard vaccum, in addition to locking down doors and consoles in those areas.

The thin atmosphere would give Young a chance to make his ultimatum, and the hard vaccum would blow them out into space if anyone tried to get out, either through doors or through the apparently paper thing walls.

Oh, you and your common sense, smart money. We were just working up to moats... :P

regards,
G.

JustAnotherVoice
June 5th, 2010, 04:25 PM
Oh, you and your common sense, smart money. We were just working up to moats... :P

regards,
G.

I didn't bother reading as far as the silly suggestions :(

Ok... How about...Pulling a Kirk from ST5 and have someone dance provocatively, luring everyone into a trap!

P-90_177
June 5th, 2010, 04:43 PM
I didn't bother reading as far as the silly suggestions :(

Ok... How about...Pulling a Kirk from ST5 and have someone dance provocatively, luring everyone into a trap!

I'm assuming that plan doesn't work so well when the enemy leader is as hot as kiva. :P

jelgate
June 5th, 2010, 04:43 PM
I'm assuming that plan doesn't work so well when the enemy leader is as hot as kiva. :P

I seriously don't find Kiva that attractive

bv90andy
June 5th, 2010, 04:44 PM
The smart money would have PRE vented the room to something like 10% of the norm, and exposed ALL adjacent corridors/rooms to hard vaccum, in addition to locking down doors and consoles in those areas.

The thin atmosphere would give Young a chance to make his ultimatum, and the hard vaccum would blow them out into space if anyone tried to get out, either through doors or through the apparently paper thing walls.

First: Hello world!

I was thinking the same thing during the episode... they already tried it, they left David Telford unconscious in Rush's body and he had about 5 minutes to live. 5 minutes is more then enough to secure the intruders and resuscitate anyone who might have lost conciousness with space suits. or bring the air back and immobilise them while they are still out of breath.

But then how would they make a 3 part story out of it? :)

Cory Holmes
June 5th, 2010, 04:47 PM
The one overriding personality quirk that Young has is his absolute unwillingness to put his peoples' lives at risk. It's been pointed out again and again that he was a very good SG team leader but quit because he wasn't willing to order anyone's death any longer. He got burned out and took a desk job in Icarus Base instead of leading the expedtion (despite O'Neill's wishes).

Putting any sort of guards in the gateroom when the LA was expected to arrive is too much of a risk for him to take. Just look at the number of times the gateroom guards have been stunned/incapacitated/blown up by a few tossed grenades... that's why his whole defense was about venting the room to space and choking the LA to death. A plan niftily subverted by the attacker's lock picks.

However, it seems that at the end of the episode he's gotten his nerve back and is willing to take more risky gambles with his soldiers. This should be good *rubs hands with glee*

JustAnotherVoice
June 5th, 2010, 04:48 PM
I'm assuming that plan doesn't work so well when the enemy leader is as hot as kiva. :P

When they're surrounded by guys all the time, with sexy but stone cold leader, a hot blooded woman showing off her goodies may be just enough distraction, unless they prefer the company of *ahem*, then it'd just be awkward for the half nakes strip...dancer. :)

GateroomGuard
June 5th, 2010, 04:48 PM
I'm assuming that plan doesn't work so well when the enemy leader is as hot as kiva. :P

But the Lucian Alliance personel know that Kiva will kill them for no reason, imagine what she would do to the first LA soldier who starred to long. Young has Chloe, Park, James, Wray, and a whole bunch of other females the LA guys can stare at without worrying about some bald guy strangling them with a wire.

Pharaoh Atem
June 5th, 2010, 04:50 PM
there's a alot of things that could have been done differently in that sequence. but considering how rare the power requirements are to dial the ninth chevron i don't think young really thought that reaching destiny would be possible

GateroomGuard
June 5th, 2010, 04:53 PM
there's a alot of things that could have been done differently in that sequence. but considering how rare the power requirements are to dial the ninth chevron i don't think young really thought that reaching destiny would be possible

But isn't his job to assume the worst case scenarios?

Pharaoh Atem
June 5th, 2010, 04:54 PM
But isn't his job to assume the worst case scenarios?

yes, but IMO he's getting lazy and not really dedicating himself to the position as he should. he never asked to be stuck on destiny.

GateroomGuard
June 5th, 2010, 04:57 PM
yes, but IMO he's getting lazy and not really dedicating himself to the position as he should. he never asked to be stuck on destiny.

I guess he's 'the wrong people' he kept complaining about.

Pharaoh Atem
June 5th, 2010, 04:57 PM
I guess he's 'the wrong people' he kept complaining about.

i dont' blame him. but now the right person (telford) is there.

GateroomGuard
June 5th, 2010, 04:59 PM
i dont' blame him. but now the right person (telford) is there.

When Telford is the right person you know things are bad.

JustAnotherVoice
June 5th, 2010, 05:00 PM
yes, but IMO he's getting lazy and not really dedicating himself to the position as he should. he never asked to be stuck on destiny.

Getting stuck against his will is a reason to put his better judgement (on self defence, anyway) on hold? :o Seeing his friend come through the gate is understandable, but pitching a fit and risking it all because he's there against his will seems to be reaching slightly.

GateroomGuard
June 5th, 2010, 05:01 PM
Getting stuck against his will is a reason to put his better judgement (on self defence, anyway) on hold? :o Seeing his friend come through the gate is understandable, but pitching a fit and risking it all because he's there against his will seems to be reaching slightly.

Brody or Volker should have reminded Young that just a few weeks ago Telford was doing his wife. The episode would have ended five minutes later.

Pharaoh Atem
June 5th, 2010, 05:02 PM
When Telford is the right person you know things are bad.

telford was supposed to lead the ninth chevron team. and he's back to his old self now

GateroomGuard
June 5th, 2010, 05:04 PM
telford was supposed to lead the ninth chevron team. and he's back to his old self now

I wish we knew what 'his old self' was. Hopefully it's less jerkish.

Pharaoh Atem
June 5th, 2010, 05:07 PM
personally i would have loved it if young had given greer a lead pipe and just told him to wrack anyone would came out of the gate........

poor telford :P

hbk314
June 5th, 2010, 05:10 PM
telford was supposed to lead the ninth chevron team. and he's back to his old self now

He was going to lead it because Young turned it down.

Utitan
June 5th, 2010, 05:13 PM
Given the recourse situation venting was the obvious logical choice. Sniper was my first thought too, just pick them off as they come through, one shot one kill, but you wouldn't have any idea of how many will be coming. Then there is the whole issue of sending video recon first, or a bomb.. Venting and taking them hostage, stranding them on the next planet was a good choice but the LA was prepared. I do think we will see Young make a tough choice that will lead to some crew dieing, maybe Telford? I don't see the writers adding in another power struggle against Young, and I certainly don't see the writers killing Young off. I also see it possible that more LA's that die could be brought back no longer brain washed, Kiva maybe? Perhaps more? New discoveries in the ship with more people to run it. Who knows.. but we will see. Either way, I see a segway to add new characters and expand the Human-Ship capabilities.. Wherever the ship is going it knows it needs repairs and people to handle the Destined task.

bv90andy
June 5th, 2010, 05:16 PM
Joseph Mallozzi answers to why Young didn't vent the air on his blog on June 5th for short "Young vents the atmosphere in Telford’s quarters in order to kill him – bring him to the brink and back – because he has no other options. That is the only proven way to overcome the brainwashing. And there was no guarantee it would even work.[...]Yes, he could have vented the atmosphere immediately and killed them as per his initial plan, but when he saw Telford come through the gate, he elected to offer the Lucian Alliance the opportunity to surrender. It wouldn’t have cost him anything but time and could well have saved Telford’s life. If they’d refused, he would simply go back to Plan A and vent the atmosphere – which he does, but too late because the attackers have technology he wasn’t expecting them to have.

Immediately venting the atmosphere and waiting until they were presumably incapacitated would have made even less sense. How would you know who is incapacitated and who isn’t incapacitated? How could you be certain that some Lucian Alliance members couldn’t be holding their breath, playing possum, in the same amount of time it would take for Telford to suffocate?"

pipi
June 5th, 2010, 05:38 PM
It'd be smarter if they just vented the atmosphere and then immediately restored it just in the nick of time while rushing in and apprehending the Alliance members. It's just like drowning, you can be revived even though you haven't breathed in a few seconds.

droid327
June 5th, 2010, 06:22 PM
So Young knew that his plan to just vent the room wasnt going to work when he saw Rush/Telford.

But still, why not just vent it anyway (or partially vent if you have that capability), let them all choke and gasp for a minute till they pass out, then repressurize and send in your troops to capture the LA invaders, or just recover Telford and then kill the rest?

We know that Young has that trick in his playbook because we just saw him use it on Telford. Young has to believe that the LA has more of a plan than just "get there....?.....profit!". It seems like a fundamental breakdown in basic strategy to allow them to establish a foothold on the ship when you could just use a move from Star Trek Intruder Defense 101 and disable the entire enemy force without risk.

Heck, even if the LA had brought air masks (which I doubt considering they didnt know that Young had the capability to vent rooms), just the shock of losing air for a few moments while you put one on would be a serious distraction and buy the SGC team all the time they need to make a decisive first strike.

I know you have to sometimes ignore things like this, but they make it really really hard sometimes when they already establish a capability and then ignore it :)

Shan Bruce Lee
June 5th, 2010, 07:33 PM
What would they have done if they'd run out of ammo and the LA troops kept pouring through the gate?

That's right... no matter how you plan, no matter what path they chose, they'd still end up in the exact same place... because it's destiny.

magictrick
June 5th, 2010, 08:14 PM
HUGE plot hole in my opinion.

They could have just vented the atmosphere and then revived Telford. They didn't even have to wait the full minute for them to pass out but just enough to get the Lucian Alliance coughing and disoriented.

Pharaoh Atem
June 5th, 2010, 08:18 PM
it is the first plot issue in sgu.

Burns
June 5th, 2010, 08:27 PM
it is the first plot issue in sgu.

Just the first?

Shan Bruce Lee
June 5th, 2010, 08:31 PM
HUGE plot hole in my opinion.

They could have just vented the atmosphere and then revived Telford. They didn't even have to wait the full minute for them to pass out but just enough to get the Lucian Alliance coughing and disoriented.

There's a huge difference between reviving one person in a small room and a large group of people in a big room. It's not really the same situation at all.

GateroomGuard
June 5th, 2010, 08:50 PM
Maybe the could've put the robot in the gateroom, smear some blood around and make the LA think replicators have taken over Destiny, that should scare them off.

jelgate
June 5th, 2010, 09:41 PM
HUGE plot hole in my opinion.

They could have just vented the atmosphere and then revived Telford. They didn't even have to wait the full minute for them to pass out but just enough to get the Lucian Alliance coughing and disoriented.
Just because we don't know why a character does something does mean its a plot hole

gotthammer
June 5th, 2010, 10:03 PM
Hehehe. The only 'plot hole' thingy I noticed was how the Destiny's crew were firing their weapons: I thought they were low on ammo? Shouldn't they have tried conserving by firing single shots, instead of bursts?

Stargater276
June 5th, 2010, 10:24 PM
Hehehe. The only 'plot hole' thingy I noticed was how the Destiny's crew were firing their weapons: I thought they were low on ammo? Shouldn't they have tried conserving by firing single shots, instead of bursts?

When you're being shot at, I'm sure your last thought is about conserving ammo.

gotthammer
June 5th, 2010, 11:03 PM
When you're being shot at, I'm sure your last thought is about conserving ammo.

Oh I dunno. I think I'd be worried about the possibility of there being MORE hostiles + me being WITHOUT ammo. :D
Sure, one can rationalize by saying 'I'll pick up the weapons of my fallen foes!'...of course, that's if there's an opportunity.

I mean, the Destiny's crew was LUCKY: didn't Kiva say that she had something like a hundred more men who got left behind?
If those had gotten on board (i.e., the planet blew up later), and the Destiny's soldiers continued firing at the rate they were, they'd have been dry probably before all of those men had even crossed the 'gate into Destiny. :lol:

EllieVee
June 6th, 2010, 02:23 AM
When they're surrounded by guys all the time, with sexy but stone cold leader, a hot blooded woman showing off her goodies may be just enough distraction, unless they prefer the company of *ahem*, then it'd just be awkward for the half nakes strip...dancer. :)

I can just picture it. They play 'You can leave your hat on' and wonder why Telford doesn't immediately start to boogie. That's when they realise that Telford and Rush switched back.

Tuvok
June 6th, 2010, 02:51 AM
I can just picture it. They play 'You can leave your hat on' and wonder why Telford doesn't immediately start to boogie. That's when they realise that Telford and Rush switched back.

Ha!

Nice one, full Monty references are made of win..

And make me feel old.

But still made of win.

PG15
June 6th, 2010, 02:59 AM
Since newbies' posts are moderated, it looks like some of you missed this important post:


Joseph Mallozzi answers to why Young didn't vent the air on his blog on June 5th for short "Young vents the atmosphere in Telford’s quarters in order to kill him – bring him to the brink and back – because he has no other options. That is the only proven way to overcome the brainwashing. And there was no guarantee it would even work.[...]Yes, he could have vented the atmosphere immediately and killed them as per his initial plan, but when he saw Telford come through the gate, he elected to offer the Lucian Alliance the opportunity to surrender. It wouldn’t have cost him anything but time and could well have saved Telford’s life. If they’d refused, he would simply go back to Plan A and vent the atmosphere – which he does, but too late because the attackers have technology he wasn’t expecting them to have.

Immediately venting the atmosphere and waiting until they were presumably incapacitated would have made even less sense. How would you know who is incapacitated and who isn’t incapacitated? How could you be certain that some Lucian Alliance members couldn’t be holding their breath, playing possum, in the same amount of time it would take for Telford to suffocate?"

To add to this, in order to revive Telford, they will need to repressurize the gateroom one way or another, giving the LA ample time to revive themselves and get into a defensive position.

This situation is very trickey. If Rush/Telford didn't get let through to Destiny, they would've just died on the exploding LA planet, and the LA incursion would be halted when Young vented the atmosphere (since there's nothing stopping him now). Even when they're let through, they still could've died if Young decided to vent the Gateroom and sacrifice them. Since he didn't decide that, we end up with the situation we have now. There is no easy way out.


i dont see a problem with that idea. could also have soldiers with space atmosphere suits to seal the deal. wow SGC should hire us.

Only if you'll stop putting soldiers in harm's way for absolutely no reason besides giving us a chance to see epic gun battles. :p

garhkal
June 6th, 2010, 04:16 AM
But like I said, he didn't know they would be bringing Rush.

And it is better to lose one life than 12...


i dont see a problem with that idea. could also have soldiers with space atmosphere suits to seal the deal. wow SGC should hire us.

Very true. Have greer and scott in those suits, standing either side of the gate, with the air vacuumed out. As the LA comes through, those 2 knock the LA troops down and yank their guns away.


there's a alot of things that could have been done differently in that sequence. but considering how rare the power requirements are to dial the ninth chevron i don't think young really thought that reaching destiny would be possible

But since he was fore warned they would be coming and had made this plan to take them out when they got there, to not follow through with it is imo the height of stupidity.




It'd be smarter if they just vented the atmosphere and then immediately restored it just in the nick of time while rushing in and apprehending the Alliance members. It's just like drowning, you can be revived even though you haven't breathed in a few seconds.



Actually. I just thought. If they have access to the Life support, why not dial UP the gravity to say 4 times normal.. That way any LA personnel that came through would be practically stuck to the ground.. THEN make your offer.


To add to this, in order to revive Telford, they will need to repressurize the gateroom one way or another, giving the LA ample time to revive themselves and get into a defensive position.


Not if they had 2 people in those suits ready to grab rush/Telford. They get him, go to a doorway, have it opened (allowing some air to rush in),, close it behind them, and resussitate rush/telford. THIS WAY they still get their guy back, but the baddies are still SOL.

EllieVee
June 6th, 2010, 04:25 AM
Only if you'll stop putting soldiers in harm's way for absolutely no reason besides giving us a chance to see epic gun battles. :p

With all two of their space suits.

pipi
June 6th, 2010, 05:31 AM
Did anyone actually die? If no one died, that would be a plot hole!

icsteffi
June 6th, 2010, 05:38 AM
The smart money would have PRE vented the room to something like 10% of the norm, and exposed ALL adjacent corridors/rooms to hard vaccum, in addition to locking down doors and consoles in those areas.

The thin atmosphere would give Young a chance to make his ultimatum, and the hard vaccum would blow them out into space if anyone tried to get out, either through doors or through the apparently paper thing walls.

I like this one. I don't like death. Even bad guy death. :)

xxxevilgrinxxx
June 6th, 2010, 08:44 AM
....
But still, why not just vent it anyway (or partially vent if you have that capability), let them all choke and gasp for a minute till they pass out, then repressurize and send in your troops to capture the LA invaders, or just recover Telford and then kill the rest?...


There's a huge difference between reviving one person in a small room and a large group of people in a big room. It's not really the same situation at all.

It's not really a controlled environment, With the Telford/Young scene it was one guy, in a room by himself, with no way to get out, faced with one guy who had some sort of inkling about what he was doing and a watch. Maybe that's not a lot but it's a lot more controlled than a whole bunch of people in a room, when you don't know what they've brought with them, and no real way to subdue them all if they do wake up when the air is let back in the room so you can get to Telford/Rush. So no, definitely not the same situation at all.

Puddle-Jumper
June 6th, 2010, 02:40 PM
I think they should have turned off the life support in the room, and vented some air from the room so that the LA wouldn't have been killed immediately but would have become disorientated, maybe faint, then send in troops and take em down

Taiko
June 6th, 2010, 07:06 PM
When you're being shot at, I'm sure your last thought is about conserving ammo.

Only we are told that these are US Marines and Air Force Special Forces. The training standard is to fire single, semi auto aimed shots. They know that no resupply truck with ammo. Ammo supply would have been the first thing on their minds and the initial battle plan proves it.


also could've planted C4s in the gate room as a trap or instead of having a kino just watching them, they could've attached C4s on kino and late that ball-thing go after them.

They were defense troops on a static base when Icarus Base was attacked. Maybe things have changed since my time but C4 was not part of a soldier's basic load. I have never seen landmines used on Stargate that they could have had, assuming someone was strong enough to throw mines through the gate during the evacuation, to cannibalize for the C4.

The Mighty 6 platoon
June 7th, 2010, 02:44 AM
Only we are told that these are US Marines and Air Force Special Forces. The training standard is to fire single, semi auto aimed shots. They know that no resupply truck with ammo. Ammo supply would have been the first thing on their minds and the initial battle plan proves it.


Yes and no. I can't fully speak to American military doctrine being British, but are training is pretty similar. 90% of the time its semi auto, but in confined indoor spaces, we get taught to fire in bursts.